How to Prove You’re Undocumented

Now that IRCA is the law of the land, immigrants scramble to prove they qualify for amnesty.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
High listeners just a quick heads up out of the
shadows tell stories of people fleeing and living in sometimes
violent environments. It's the middle of summer in seven and

(00:24):
the applications for URCA have just opened up. And today
a brave group of immigrants is at the immigration office
applying for Lamnistia. They're nervous, they're also scared. They have
to prove to the government that they've been living in

(00:45):
this country illegally, and this goes against everything they've done
to survive in this country, keeping a low profile, living
in the shadows, dodging lamgra But today all that changes.

(01:07):
To everyone's surprise, the process is pretty easy. They get
there at eight am and three hours later they walk
out with temporary residency cards. Just ask Someone snaps a picture.
In the photo, they're holding up their cards like they

(01:29):
got a winning lottery ticket. In celebration, in defiance with pride.
Everyone's dressed in their Sunday's best. There's a man sporting
a bushy mustache, hands in his pockets. He's got a
real eighties swagger. Wrapped around his arm is his wife,

(01:53):
who has a small smile on her face. Next to
them is a woman who looks all shocked, clutching her purse,
standing there frozen, like she's going to wake up any
moment and this will all have been a dream. Right
above her are more men with mustaches holding up their cards,

(02:17):
some smiling, some look baffled, some with stoic faces, and
one guy looks like he's daydreaming, his eyes darting up
as the shutter clicks. And in the middle of all

(02:38):
of that, it's a kid digging through his mom's purse.
And it's such a small moment, but it touches my
heart because even in the midst of history being made,
kids are still kids. This beautiful mosaic of brown faces

(03:02):
just got a shot at their American dream. And the
thing about this photo is that, even though it was
shot thirty five years ago, I can feel the weight
lifting off their shoulders as they step out of the shadows.

(03:28):
I'm Patti Rodriguez and I'm ur Glendo, and this is
out of the shadows. Children of eighty six Immigrants and
their children have long lived in the shadows of America.
Their destinies aren't just shaped by where they come from,
but by their particular place in history. In the lives
of millions of immigrants and their children were changed by
one lucky stroke of a pen by an unlikely allen

(03:50):
President Ronald Reagan. This podcast will examine the ripple effects
the bill had on first generation kids of immigrants, who
are navigating intergenerational mobility and transforming the cultural landscape. This
is an untold story of luck, timing, triumph, opportunity, survival,
and of course hope. Imagine going from never having a

(04:27):
chance at being an American, then suddenly, with one signature,
you got a shot at living in this country illegally.
Going from being invisible, in constant fear of deportation and
getting paid less than everyone else, to suddenly being able
to do small things like getting alone, buying a car
or a house, to finally have the opportunity to plant roots.

(04:54):
It was really a path to a new life. But
this is still America, so of course it wasn't easy
for everyone to apply for URCA, especially because it was
hard to prove that they had been living here illegally,
even though most people like Garcia had been here for decades.

(05:14):
Sentos Julio Hesters came to this country from Ol Salvador
in the late seventies. He had heard so much about
America that it was paradise, a land of opportunities, and
he wanted to find out for himself. When he arrived
in l A. One of the first things he did,

(05:36):
let's go to the movies and me who went through
no lessons? Yeah, al Senna a momentor I no Sandy.

(06:00):
It's the summer of nineteen seventy eight and his Who's
got two tickets to watch this all American musical about
teenagers falling in love starring two superstars, John Travolta and
Olivia Newton. John, you haven't guessed it yet. The movie
was called Crazy Sandy Sandy, and as soon as he

(06:22):
walked out of the theater, has Who swore he would
name his first daughter Sandy. And the funny thing is
that Sandy is actually an immigrant from Australia. My dream
came true, he says. When his was heard amnesty finally passed,

(06:44):
he was excited, but he was also scared mad. Has
Sous wasn't alone. Many people were afraid, confused, conflicted about
Mark reaching into Lama's office and telling them that they
had been here undocumented and with reason ever since the

(07:10):
United States invaded Mexico. Robbing them of half its territory
in eighteen. The U. S has done everything in its
power to keep Mexicans and Central Americans from planting roots
in this country. How can you begin to trust that
this country actually wants you hear from one day to
the next when it has spent the last one hundred

(07:32):
and seventy six years showing you otherwise. Looking at the
front page of the l A Times or New York
Times the day after URCA was passed, you would think
it would be dominating the headlines. We're talking about the
biggest piece of immigration reform of all time, and all
the attention had got was a brief mention on section A,

(07:54):
page twelve of the New York Times and the l
A Times. As it has always been very Mexican, I
mean it was literally Mexico before it was America. That
paper didn't put it on the front page either. Instead,
they highlighted another bill that went to the President's desk,
Reagan Beto wing a Clean Water Act because of costs,

(08:17):
but an Erica nothing crickets. One of the things to
consider is that even though URCA passed, immigration wasn't covered
by media outlets the way it is now using tragedy
for clicks and making it a political issue instead of
a human rights one. Journalist Marie Lena Sealina says, it

(08:40):
wasn't like that back then. It was like we we
didn't exist, We were invisible. But what's wild is that
even the press got the irony of what the new
law was asking immigrants to do. This is from a
New York Times article published three days before Erica was signed.
For years, illegal aliens have done everything possible to avoid
document unting their American existence and jobs. Now the government

(09:03):
says that for them to remain here, they must prove
they did everything they were not supposed to do. Basically,
Irka wanted people like my mom to prove that they
were living in this country undocumented before you had to
go to the I n s Lamigera and say hey,
I've been living here illegally for years, and here's proof
of that. They of course went home and told all

(09:26):
their friends. This is farm worker advocate Larry Kleinman, who
we're saying to them, Oh, man, you know, hey, can
I have your Can I have your car in case,
you know, you get arrested and don't come back. You
know that kind of like kidding, kidding on the square
as they say, you know right, you know, like you
ain't coming back. You know, you're a damn fool to
do that, to take that risk. So with all this

(09:47):
lack of mainstream media coverage and very little outreach by
the government, it left a vacuum for misinformation out of
the shadows. Will be right back now, back to the show.

(10:12):
Our parents didn't have social media back then, but they
did have chiefs men, even some conspiracy theories and you
know it's the ms is qualified for amnesty for casey
you are septo is there? Or applico for lost control

(10:35):
to me. But he kept hearing so many rumors. One
of them was that the government was using Urga like
a microchip to track undocumented people. And it kind of
makes sense because Erka does sound too good to be true.
It's like when the police do gun buybacks, no questions asked,

(10:56):
just bring us those guns and we'll give you a
Costco gift card. ORCA was asking immigrants to go into
the lions, then hope for the best and maybe, just
maybe you'll get the chance to be American. Demotteo's dad
eventually convinced him to apply well, taso Papa, you may

(11:21):
see plicas was and what made him change his mind,
the reason why many immigrants come to this country in
the first place, his daughter and the dream of attaining
an education beyond the elementary school teachings. He received responsio

(11:50):
alien mass alien mass respond eo simple or Indian familiar
import la with you're not away. It took a lot

(12:17):
of bravery to be among the first to apply, and
it was a messy process. URCO applications open on May five.
That's right, single the mayo. No, I'm not kidding, and
you only had a year to apply. Larry Kleinman was
living in Oregon when the applications opened. So applications opened

(12:39):
on May five, and the legalization office in Portland was deserted.
Nobody was there, and it was pretty much deserted for
the whole month of May. Folks were like, I'm not
I'm not going to be the first. I'm not going
to be the person to experiment on. It took a
lot of trust and reassurance from people like Kleinman to
convince these early applicants. We had a team of ten

(13:01):
people all together, working in different fashions in a one
thousand square foot house, and that was our office at
the time, bursting at the seams. Those first group of
people were nervous beyond you know, beyond belief right going
in there that day. But they trusted us. That was
the important thing, and we said to them, whatever happens,
you're gonna be okay. Applying for amnesty was like an infomercial.

(13:30):
Initial fees are only one simple payment of But if
you act now, you can add one family member under
eighteen years of age for just fifty dollars. That's right.
If you act fast, you can bring the whole family.
The cap per family was set at four and twenty dollars.
That's not including seventy five dollars for legal fees, twenty
five dollars for fingerprints and medical examinations. Let's say you

(13:54):
got the fees covered. Now you have to go apply
on an I n S. Office. Now, the first obstacle
is proven that you've been in this country since before
January one. Then you had to prove that you were
self supporting or had a job. So if you were
a quote public charge or receiving government assistance, you were disqualified.
If you were a felon disqualified. It felt like the

(14:17):
goal post was constantly shifting. It was like the government
opened the gates for people to come in, but they
kept moving the entryway every time you got near it.
The application period was a year. That's Charles Kalbasaki, author
of immigration reform, the Corps that Will Not Die, And
we were requesting an extension of another year, and the

(14:38):
rules about who was eligible and who wasn't changed like
fifteen times during the course of that year. Even though
it was the first immigration reform of its size, they
weren't exactly hiring Tom Cruise to announce lumness DA. The U. S.
Government only invested ten million dollars in outreach. That's a
third of the estimated cost of the Iran Contra deal,

(15:02):
which traded American hostages for thirty million dollars. Coincidentally, right
after Reagan signed URGA, I mean, the inc hadn't even
dry ya and the only question from the press wasn't
about amnesty, it was about the Iran hostages, and Reagan
gave no comment. And the other problem with that ten

(15:22):
million dollar budget was that in turn had to be
used not just to inform the undocumented about their requirements,
but was also designed to inform the millions of businesses
in the country that they would also now be facing
these new potential penalties if they hired unauthorized workers. So

(15:44):
someone would say, oh, ten million dollars, that seems like
it's a lot of money, but that's a pittance. That's
nothing in terms of what people put into social marketing.
It was up to people like journalists Lopez, who covered
Urka at the time. For Lapion, he actually created a
Spanish language pamphlet for immigrant communities spreading the news of

(16:05):
amnesty SOLM programs. Community effort played a huge role. When
the government, realizing the community wasn't trusting the i S office,
they set up centers all across local churches, and those
centers accounted for sixty of all amnesty applications. For some families,

(16:31):
the responsibility of translation fell on their children who spoke English.
I feel like Latinos have this like sense of community,
and especially my mom and my grandma and my aunt
have always kind of been like helpful to other folks,
you know what I mean. That is rain Solis. She
was about six or seven years old at that time.
Her mom and a Willa would go up and down

(16:51):
the amnesty applicants line asking if anyone needed a bilingual interpreter.
I do remember that vividly, that it was cold and dark,
and we were outside and there was just a line
of people and I was just asked to come to
the front of the line and translate for somebody who
did not speak English. There's something you should know about Mexicans.

(17:14):
They're resourceful as fun. Even before Erica passed, Mexican immigrants
have been using fake documents to cross the border and
get work. It was a common thing to buy a
fake social Security number or amica, the street name of
a green card. My pops actually used to sell them
back in the early eighties. Indeed I had Oh well

(17:44):
that's but now Urka was asking for documents proving that
you lived in the US for five years, so naturally
the black market for forged documents exploded. The vast majority
of that fraud was people really who had worked in
agriculture but just couldn't prove it. But Kamasaki says there

(18:06):
were people who straight up line, there were examples of
folks who claimed that they were agricultural workers, and you know,
they would be questioned and would say, well, what did
you do? And they said, well, you know, I harvested
tomatoes off tomato trees or gave answers. They clearly demonstrated
that they had never actually harvested a single tomato before.

(18:30):
But again, most of those documents were because the system,
the very idea of proof was so complicated. And think
of it even more, if you're in a situation where
you might have two or three families in a house
and so only the utility bill would only be in
one person's name. Think about if you had you were

(18:50):
like a migrant worker and you were moving from town
to town, so even things like school records, you would
have to go back and pull records from you know,
five six seven schools or something like that. Employers were
also accepting fake documents. In a study by C. S U.
L A. In the late eighties, they interviewed sixties service
based businesses and found that most accepted fake documents they

(19:13):
weren't required to check authenticity, especially in jobs like construction
and landscaping. Also, employers could take advantage of a provision
that exempted checking paperwork if you only hire for a
few days, So unless it was quote blatant, employers accepted
fake documents. Erica led to an increase in the quality

(19:35):
of those fake documents, and the demand made the costs
go up as well. It's simple economics, baby. I admire
the folks who use fake documents to build a new
life in the States. It is almost downright patriotic. They
did what they had to to secure a future for
their families, and scamming it's one of America's great pastimes.

(19:57):
We're a country built on new beginnings. Out of the shadows,
will be right back now, back to the show. Adriana

(20:18):
Venegas was one of those people who used fake documents.
Her father came first to this country in two and
would come back from Mexico to work seasonally. Once Urka
passed and he got amnesty, he made arrangements for his
wife and children to cross. Once my dad found out
that he was able to sponsor his kids after legalizing

(20:40):
himself in seven, he and my mom started planning the move.
Her mom and dad came up with the plan. Most
of my my cousins had been born here, legalized, etcetera,
So we essentially took borrowed cousins birth certificates to help

(21:00):
my siblings cross. Adriana and her siblings were about to
cross the border using their cousin's birth certificates. They memorized
every detail perfectly, and so, for example, I talked to
my brother the other day and he remembers practicing his
lines and saying that you know, my uncle was his dad,

(21:21):
my aunt was his mom, and that he was my cousin.
Adriana remembers the day vividly. She remembers what she was wearing,
what she was doing, and even the way the sun
felled on her face in it was a summer day
in July. I remember putting on my dress because I

(21:46):
knew it was coming to the States, so I had
to look nice, and so as a five year old,
I put on this little blue dress. I had blue
flowers and it had like this little bib. And remember
very vividly seeing my grandfather waved goodbye as the truck

(22:07):
took off, and then I never saw my grandfather again.
I have the last the last time I saw them,
because once we moved here, we were able to go back.
Her great aunt had to reassure her as he crossed.
She's my grandmother's sister and her son took me in

(22:27):
their car, and so they told me, you don't have
to do anything. You just have to sit here on
my lab and fall asleep, and then once you wake up,
you're you're going to be in the States. And I said, okay,
that's easy enough. I actually did end up falling asleep,
and it took us all day, I think, to cross
the line. And at this point it was already dark,

(22:49):
it was night. So I just ended up falling asleep.
And so once I woke up, I was in the States,
and we went to my aunt's place, of my uncle's
place in Santa Ana. While we waited for my other siblings,
and one of my siblings, actually my my youngest brother,
who seven at the time, he ended up getting sent

(23:11):
to second revision. So you do the first revision. If
they see that something's a little suspicious, they'll send you
to the second. So while Adrenna slept, her brother was
sent to a second checkpoint. The immigration officer took it
upon himself too to question my brother. Remember he ran in.

(23:33):
Her siblings all practiced their lines over and over, and
the whole time my brother did not break from his
script the entire time. He said, I am my cousin,
my cousin's name, and I am my uncle's son and
I am my aunt's son. So the immigration officer was

(23:55):
interviewing is seven year old, and the seven year old
understood assignment. The assignment don't deviate from the plant. No
matter what the mega says or does, he never broke
what was unbelievable? Who was that? If he hadn't practiced
as much, and if he hadn't like stuck to his script,

(24:16):
we'd all have to go back. So the entire thing
is almost on a seven year old shoulders, and that
he crossed, we all crossed. The bravery of these kids
is so inspiring. Both Adriana and her brother had to
grow up so fast in just minutes. A seven year

(24:37):
old child was the hero that day, and hearing all
that makes me think of my own mom. I never
asked her what her experience applying for amnesty was like
until now, and she says, it all goes back to
that backpack I told you about in the first episode,
the one she was carrying as it were chased by

(24:58):
the Megata through the desert. I had a lot of
proofs in my backpack, like you know, doctors papers, when
my appointments, when I was pregnant with Patty and John,
and uh, also my work is tabs missed alone is
a chicken? And uh, that's it. Did you also have

(25:19):
my dad's paperwork? I had also his papers, so you
had saved them? Yeah, because you know, I am a
very nice person of everything. So before you left in Mexico,
you didn't know anything about this. I didn't know anything,
and I didn't care. But at that time, I don't
know what I say, but I just said, well, maybe

(25:39):
just like to remember that I was here, and I
put in you know, and inside books, you know, because
I used to read a lot, so I had a
lot of books and I and I took the books
with me, and I put all the papers you know
in there, and and others and envelopes and yellow envelopes
and I and I do those papers with me. But me,

(26:00):
it wasn't me. It was God that put in my
in my mind, you know, to say these papers, call
it luck or destiny. But thanks to that bag, she
didn't have as hard a time applying for amnesty as others.
She was able to apply to church and have plenty
of letters of recommendation, but getting amnesty that changed everything

(26:23):
for her. I feel free, like in this country, I
can't describe, you know, but it was very happy. I
write a letter to my my parents right away. Mama,
I got my green car. After I I got my
green card, you are like an eagle. Now, eagle, you

(26:49):
are free. You have the same rights as the president.
They say you are free. You are free. So I
started like shaking my body and crying and and always
give in my mind. I have the same rights as
the president, the same rights. So nobody's going to stop me.
I have the same rights as the president. Those are

(27:14):
some of the most powerful words my mom's ever spoken.
Even back then, she could feel how monumental it was
to come out of the shadows, all the struggle that
she went through, crossing the border twice just to secure
my family's future. And I don't know if I could

(27:35):
ever pay her back. But one thing I know is
that I want people to know this story. I want
to make sure that these voices are heard, because even
today there are people still living in the shadows, millions
of people. Good is the story of multiple realities. These

(27:56):
people that we talked to were just some of the
few who were able to get amnesty. They were the
lucky ones. It was life changing for Patty's mom my parents,
Adrianna and Timith, Theo and all the people in the
photo we told you about at the top of the show.
Those people in the photo were only there because of

(28:18):
Larry Kinman. He felt like he was part of something
bigger and the smiles were palpable ft away. People can
imagine raising families. People would imagine establishing themselves permanently. People
could imagine themselves going to work and not being afraid
of not coming home at the end of the day.
But at the same time, Erica was a reminder to

(28:40):
folks living in this country, being American as can be,
that they still were and wanted and given how difficult
it was to apply, I don't know imagine how many
more people could have got an amnesty. Most analysts believe
at least of the eligible population never got legalized. Remember,

(29:07):
this is still a story of luck. Like as who's
got to see yuh the big grease fan. He wasn't
so lucky. Has Sus never even got to apply for amnesty.
He was too afraid because he had a criminal record.

(29:28):
The cops arrested him in a group of salvador Anios
because they thought he was associated with them. As thirteen.
But in order to understand how that went down, we
have to go back tell Salvador in the late nineties seventies.
You'll hear that story next episode, next time on Out

(29:54):
of the Shadows, Children of eighty six. The story it's
even more complicated in pain for us. We take a
look at what it was like for people like Cassus,
people who weren't Mexican, and to talk about that, we
have to look at Reagan's other legacy, his destruction of
Central America. If you love this podcast, please help us

(30:21):
get the word out by following, rating, reviewing, and sharing
it with your friends. Out of the Shadows is written
by Caesar Hernandez. It's also written, edited, hosted, an executive
produced by Patti Rodriguez and Eric Galindo. It's produced by
Bett Cardanas, Karen Lopez and Gabby Watts. It's sound design

(30:44):
mixed and mastered by Jesse nice Longer. Our studio engineer
is Clay Hillenburg. Karen Garcia That's Me is our announcer.
Out of the Shadows is the production of Seeing Me
Other Productions and School of he Men's in partnership with
I Hearts Michael Tura podcast Network. The podcast is also

(31:06):
executive produced by Giselle Banzes, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and
Chad Crowley. Our marketing and our team is led by
Jasmine Mehia. Original music by a Arenas and if you
loved his cover of Los Caminos la vida this podcast
theme song, you can listen to it on all music platforms.

(31:29):
Historical audio for Out of the Shadows comes from the
Reagan Presidential Library and the National Archives. Special thanks to
Ian Vargas, Alex and Ali, Caitlin Becker, gob Chabran, Daisy Church,
Angel Lopez Glendo, Julianna Gamis, Ryan Gordon, Brian Matheson, Claudia

(31:54):
Marty Corena, Oscar Ramidz, John Rodriguez, Juan Rodrie Guess, Joshua Sandoval,
Eric Sclar, Tony Sorrentino, and Megan tan with the other

(32:22):
me