Jermaine O'Neal | Truth behind the Malice in the Palace, Losing love for the game & jail as a teen 🤯 - Out the Mud

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yo, what's good? Is your boy? T a man? And
welcome to another episode of Out the Mud podcast. Today
you will be getting blessed with a sixth time All Star,
three time All NBA Most Improved Player, Jermaine O'Neil, one
of the best bigs that ever played, put on a
uniform as a pacer. But you already know. But before

(00:26):
we get in all that, let's head over the prize pick.
Download the app and use the promo Cold Mud.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Whoa fo I got it out the mud, put me land,
gonna feel me first, see me bag, gonna do you worse,
gonna get you hurt. That's been fixing all my vision
still might pull up either change.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I go up and down, feel like that hurt. Bet
I go out like a thud. Bet I'll put something
in a third thirs. I came up front the mud
and it's a down no shirt shirt break them ben,
make up work straight time my hand from out up bird,
I gonna front the mud. They finally I'm there diving
in the third.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Iyes hey, kid, I gotta make it. Get this out
the mud man, Yo, it's out the Mud today. I'm
here with man Mac Bow, Mac Bow. How you feeling today.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Bro good Man got an honor in the tree today.
Man Yes and Man six town All start three town
All NBA. One of the best shot blockers that I
know I've seen at the rim My boy Jo What's good?
Family was fellas Man, it's good to show for sure.
Excited about this and so sir, well this is out
the mud man. You know, we always you know, always

(01:38):
asks man. You know, everybody's journey is different, and we
always just wanted to kick it off, like tell us
what it was about growing up in Columbia, South Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Man, it was growing up in Columbia, Man, was was
a little bit different. Man. One of the things for
me wasn't necessarily as much about the city because because
the hood really did their job with me. I was
trying to find my way because I never really felt
whole as a young man, because I didn't even meet
my dad's I was thirty years thirty years old. I
was thirteen years into the NA. Yeah, So it was
one of those things where I was trying to find

(02:09):
acceptance across the border. You know, you're trying to find acceptance.
You did, you did with that one every day, right,
and you could take on really, so we had we
had a lot of had a lot of uh dope
people that was really looking out for me and helping
me make you know, right decisions and helped me write

(02:30):
the wrong decisions that I was making. And I was
fortunate enough to run into my high school coach who
really uh see, I think you may coach Gne Coach Glenn, Yeah,
rest in peace, my man, Rest in peace for sure.
But he was the one that really kind of helped,
uh ride the ship and settle the ship for me. Right.

(02:50):
My mom did a hell of a job, but you know,
how much can a mother do on their own right
for right, and so you know, she was able to
kind of set a standard for me, but Coach m
was the one that really polished everything else for me
at that time. You know, it was a guard then,
because that's how I was. You weren't a big, big fella,

(03:12):
Yeah you was. You didn't get that gross burbonutil like
what age it was my sophomore year. Man, that was crazy.
I went from I went from six to two to
six eleven and three months damn yeah, crazy running around
the like forest gun with the braces had to be braced. Uh,
But it was like the best thing for me because
the things that I learned from a football perspective and
from a guard perspective, I was able to utilize that

(03:33):
as a big right try to use quickness, you know,
try to use both hands. Uh. The crazy story with
my with my left hand, because everybody thought I was
left handed. Right, Well, go left too, man, you know
at the crib when you fall behind me and works,
I broke my right hand and so my mom was like, yo,
you're gonna figure out how to write with your left.
So I write with both hands, and not that too

(03:54):
many people knew about it, but whatever crazy reason, we
get into games and they would not take off the left,
my left hand, so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
go left. So that's how things really got clicking out
for me from that perspective. But but it was it
was rough, you know, growing up when you you don't
feel appreciated, and as we get into this process and

(04:17):
things that kind of carried over to this very moment,
bro that you struggle with and you know, I've used
different things to kind of help me with that process. Uh,
fighting some demons, you know, on a day to day basis,
when it comes to that, you know, appreciation acceptance. But
like I said, my high school colach was was pretty
amazing when it came to making sure that I stayed focused,

(04:39):
understood what the opportunity was at hand, UH and the
discipline side of things. You going to all of these camps.
Can't talk to us about your class at the time
because that's you got a Hall of Flame class. So
I was like some of those summer camps like just
your inspiration knows something's going into them, right. So you know,

(05:00):
back then it was like he was at the didas,
he was at the UH it was five Star, it
was Nike. Yeah, right, so we have all these you know,
seven eight nine different things. So I remember like always
like hearing about Tim Thomas. Tim and you know, on
no social media back then, so you know, it's like
a myth. You're reading about it, you see him the
magazine and I remember, man, it was crazy. It was

(05:25):
Tim might have been the best high school player that
I've ever seen. Yeah, he was a grown man, Dan
the crazy. So I just told you I was with
Tim and on the Hampton at Ais event.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
When I tell you, Tim man he set the bar
like he was six tens, you know, six eleven inside
outside handled crazy bounds strong about two twenty in high school,
and he set the bar man. And I remember going
to the CAMPRA, the Adidas All American Camp, and I
was like, okay, I got a lace, so I got
to get my game together. He was one that set

(06:00):
the bar for me to say, Okay, I got to
get back in the lab and and make sure you
know I'll get better or damn man, that's that's you know,
it's so crazy, broke man. You got the same story.
You say you made your dad when you was thirty,
because I come from a single parent home. I mean
my dad at thirty two, you know what I mean? Like,
and that's crazy that you say that, Like like who

(06:22):
was like destructure in your femily? Like tell me about
telling me about your big brother, because I know your
big brother he played a part too, And yeah, you
know what I mean. You know what's crazy man? Like
so my brother so he my dad was there when
he was my brother's two years older than me. So
he was there when he when he when when when

(06:43):
my brother was born for two years and then when
I got my mama's my mother's pregnant with me, he dipped,
but crazy story, like you know, my last name is
made up? Like true true story was made up his name, right,
So what happened when I'm one of thirty three kids?
One of thirty three kids? True story? I met seventeen

(07:06):
of them when he died. So I met him at
thirty died thirteen months later. So I spent my whole
life without really knowing them. But my brother used always
tell me these stories. Man and my dad. My father
went to jail for murder, right, got out, didn't even
every year over year now I'm finding out more and
more things about him because I was so upset about

(07:28):
like the nigga not really like choosing me, right, you know,
why not me? You chose my brother. I hear the
stories about all the toys, all this and all that,
and then it just come to me, and you know, nobody.
My mother was in a mold where she wasn't really
trying to get too deep into it. She was upset
about things, and you know there's a bolla to a relationship.
So my thing was I almost took it out on

(07:51):
my mother, right. My mother was she was a force
behind everything man, Like you get you get your ass beating,
you know, beat up in the streets. You're gonna go
home and get your ass beating home. Right exactly. She
was set a standard because we ain't had nothing else
but the standard to live off of. Right. So it
was one of those things where my mother became, uh,
just a rock for me, man, And uh, she taught

(08:12):
me a lot. She taught me to value everything brou
I remember she's always saying, look, you know, if you
if you mistreated dollar my money, I'm whooping your ass.
And I always remember that that's the standard that you
know that I live on even with my kids. Look,
we're not about to waste no money on you not
giving everything you got. And so I would say that
my mother is for sure the one that really really

(08:35):
set the tone for me, man, when it came to
aggression and your standard and consistency. You had the opportunities,
you went multiple championships as a as a younger. Yeah,
you know what what was the driving force and going
to get that for the city. It be honest, man,
Like my high school was, Uh, they was dope, and

(08:58):
they had players before I got there, they were they
were already winning. They hadn't had any NBA players. They
had a ton of Division IE players from Brothers, Florida.
Stay had a guy named Thaddeus Delaney who went to
College of Charleston. He kind of misplayed his hand a
little bit from an agency standpoint and didn't go work
out for teams. Had an amazing run. All he had

(09:18):
to do was get the right agent, go work out
for teams. He drafted right. He don't work out for
those teams. He go undrafted right, which I'm not even
sure why he did that, But but it was already
a standard of of you know, six nine, six ten
players at the school. Ur they had already won you know, championships.
You know, we were the first ones to win you know,
three in a row. Right, And so you know you're

(09:40):
getting you know, you're getting on the train that's already moving,
and you're trying to figure out how you can make
it better. Right. And so I will tell you I
didn't really even get going until really my junior year
were Yeah, yeah, I would have thought I ain't gonna
let as you was coming that. I thought you was
already like him. Nah, hell no, But I got some
tape show y'all boy boy it was, but it was

(10:04):
crazy man because again the environment man like. But that's
back then when we played outside and we went to
the park. Tell them all the time, bro, it was
dogs at the park. You know, that's where you got
your validation from. And you gotta like you your guys
over there on this little court over here. You got
to work your way over to the court, right, And

(10:26):
that's a process, and people don't realize how important that is. Bro.
You're trying to fight to get to the big court
and you take those same tennessees and you know and
go to you know, go to your high school or
whatever that you're doing it. You try, you try to,
you try to run through people. I tell my kids
all the time, I didn't. I didn't have a luxury
playing on them inside. Course, I ain't got all types

(10:46):
of the twenty fourth, twenty sixth Street park, you know,
Valley Avenue. I'm in the hood playing, ain't no court.
We had country in the dirt, concrete whatever do it
back boy alley, anything that ain't got air straight up?
When did you realize? Okay, I'm pretty sure, like you said,
you played outside, so I'm pretty sure that it was
catching the neighborhood, stirring you into the right that like

(11:09):
you're going to the league. Like did you start hearing
the league noise early or or was it shortly after
the girlve sport. I'm gonna tell you, man, like when
I heard it was, I remember sitting on the couch
with my brother. Man, we was watching tickets shout out
the ticket. Yeah big people think ticket for Chicago. Ticket
from So I always tell people like, so I knew

(11:33):
a little. He went to school. He was all world,
but his teammates wasn't that good, so he would never
get to the state side of the thing. So we
never saw him in the state side. You gotta win, win,
get especially back there wasn't all us traveling all this
other stuff. You gotta win to get there. But we knew,
we knew what he was right, and so I remember
sitting there. There was a lot of conversation about you know,
ticket going lottery and you know, so everybody kind of

(11:54):
sitting back watching and we watching the draft, and my
brother was like, man, this is crazy high school kid
on pro And I said, man, I'm gonna do that
next year. Like also straight just saying that shit, I
had no idea. I said, I'm gonna do that next year,
and next thing you know, they had the first MVP,
a Top one hundred camp. So I was the first

(12:16):
group that went to that. And so the next thing
you know, they started showing up to the high schools
and was like a real thing. Right, so the scout saying,
and I'm like, okay, cool. So they every time that
meet with my high school coach, they asked, he asking
him what does he need to do now. Now, my
high school coach didn't want me to go pro at all.
And I said, coach, I said, I told my coach,

(12:37):
I said, coach, man, look I get it. I said,
my physically ready to go probably not. I said, what
I can guarantee, I'm gonna work my ass off to
make sure I get to where I need to be.
I said, but coach, right now, I'm not. I just
went to jail. See. The crazy thing is my senior year.
I know I'm jumping around a little bit, but it's
it's a correlation to where I sit today. A lot

(13:00):
of people don't know every state has a legal age
for consensual sex. Yeah, people don't know that. So I
always tell young men and parents, look, you gotta be careful,
like because this girl's my girlfriend at the time, cheerleader,
been there for two years. Made everybody but her dad. Right,
I'm at the crib. I don't bullshit and lied to
my coach saying I had to go home and do something.

(13:22):
I was sneaking over to the to her crib. He
comes home, don't catch us doing nothing. But he asked
her a question. He said, have you guys been sexually active?
And she said yeah, right, but by state law it
doesn't matter if she say it's consensual. And she wanted
to do it because she's under the age of seventeen.
I was seventeen, she was sixteen. I was now facing

(13:44):
ten years from seventeen to sixteen, sixteen, ten years. Brouh.
And you know back damn the dad tripped out, tripped out, bruh.
And that man disappeared because the city was the city
was looking for him. Yeah, man, you changed hindering my
career like you're trying to. Oh, it was something that's understood,

(14:05):
but he had no idea the magnitude of that though. Right,
he couldn't have possibly in every aspect, but people looking
for like the career that we're trying to I'm trying
to build the support of the city that they had
for me. He had no idea. And being from South Carolina, bro,
you know, that's the first slave state, right, so people
don't first slave state, right, And so you know they

(14:26):
had to be Confederate flag on the stay house for forever,
until you know, the white kid went in and shot
up the church six or seven years ago. Big ass
Confederate flag that's been there for decades. So it kind
of broke everything down to where it gave me. It
gave me a fond respect about decision making, perception. And

(14:49):
you'll see that you know this and this has consistently
happened throughout my career. Right. Uh, that's something I think
I've been better better equipped to deal with it. But
that was one of those things where Bruh like almost
didn't want to think about the pros, but it forced
me to. It was it was expediating my process, right

(15:10):
I come off. You know, you got people across town
that didn't look like me, was saying he's a criminal,
shouldn't play no more, shouldn't be allowed to play big
media screwtiny at at an early age, at early age,
and that hit down there and everywhere. Boyd cotting me, right,
don't I shouldn't play. He's a criminal, he's he's a rapist.
Due process? What happened to due process? Right? So I

(15:32):
go to court, get I get a bunch of hours
on community service. At the time, University of South Carolina
runs that. It still runs it now, and I was
on the school that I was I was looking to
go to, and at the time, the judge was like, Hey,
what school are you going to? In the court case
this true story, and I don't know what in the

(15:53):
world had me say, Man, it's a ninety eight percent
chance I'm gonna go to Universusuth Carolina. Again, I'm facing
a mandatory ten year your sentence, right, that's that's by
state law. Yeah, yeah, which is crazy. So she ended
up giving me like one hundred hours of community service.
I couldn't talk to her. But then I get reinstated

(16:15):
and the first first game back got Brick Patino, you
got Gary Williams and Mary only got the everybody in there.
And I'm not schooled well for NBA scouts. I'm I'm
hype ready to go, hype person in my knee the
very first game body. So Rick Patino was my man dope.

(16:37):
I got shout out to break Patino man like you came.
He recruited me himself. You know, sometimes you get the
assistant coaches, but he was coming every time to the house.
And then he set in my He set in my
house and told my mother, he said, look, I've seen
everything that your son went through. I got relationships in
the NBA they state specting between ten and seventeenth. He said, look,

(16:57):
we're gonna be good with you and we're gonna be
good without you. Would love to have you, but knowing
what I know, go pro. And that was a moment
that was that's how kicked from g no Og told me.
I was like, I said, you know what, that's it.
Do you feel like that like scared a lot of
teams with their case or a lot of a lot
of they still rock with you because they understood the

(17:19):
situation when they you know, seventeen sixteen, that's same age.
So yeah, but you know, the thing was a shout
out the son Evin Caro too, mister yeah, God, he's
godfather man like he he laid it out for a
single parent seventeen year old where you know, like it

(17:41):
was one of those things where he just like made
sure that every box was checked, and you know he
got He got me with Iron Tellham, who was my
agent my entire career, and they did the business. Like
I knew that it was a chance I can go
to I think Sacramento had the tenth pick. Somebody we
had the tenth pick. Charlotte had back to back picks
at twelve and thirteen, and there was a chance that,

(18:01):
you know, I could go there. But I knew I
was gonna follow any lady in the seventeen So when
coach Matino told you that he really championed for you, like, yeah,
fuck college, yet you lead. And that was our mindset too, man,
because you can only get so many signs. Right, you
face in prison time, right, you get off that. Now,
now that you're facing expulsion from the season, you get

(18:23):
off that. Now you got the you got the hyper extension,
you get off that. And on top of it, they
had they had switched my SAT testing site, so you
know back you know, you can combine the scores, all
you need, all I need is like forty more points,
and they switched it to a spot across town. So
just a lot of things coming like bang bang bang

(18:45):
bang bang, and it was like it was God's will
because the people that came into my life put me
in the right direction. That's big man. I can't get
front you. Both of you guys had, like you say,
the same path. There's just so many options they get
in front of you gotta overcome man. Doing that at
an early age man like you did. It was big man.

(19:05):
So you guys playing an all American game, both of
you got. I always married that bro, because I tell everybody, Man,
I played in the Tago Bell Game. Yes, I'll be
mixing it up, but just no for real. But man, y'all,
y'all gotta explain that experience to the viewers. I love

(19:27):
hearing it. Man. The McDonald's man was it was a
dope experience man, because you know, again, back then, you know,
we wasn't seeing everybody. You can go every weekend and
see a kid. Now you got social media, whatever it is.
It's like this, ste you had The Street and Smith
Magazine and you gotta read and whatever it is. And
to be in there man with you know, we had
a dope class with Mike Bibbie, Shaheen, Holloway, Kobe obviously

(19:52):
being uh, Stephen Jackson, Tim Thomas. It was just a
lot of dope, dope ass people, man. And I remember
getting there. It was in Pittsburgh, and I was like,
you know, we have to really show people what I
got because back then, like they really was getting after it.
It wasn't no I'm gonna take some time off. I'm

(20:13):
gonna show up and not play. I was like, I
can't wait to see this. Come on. Man. Wait, there's
a lot of he he homies and wouldn't like you, Mom,
I'm trying to you. I love it. That was big man, Damn.

(20:35):
Pretty much all them guys was pros to He just
named it. You walk into that class, it's like Hamilton
to Rip was in there to shout the ripe, shout
out the rip damn. Some say that's the best class ever.
Some people that's the hell of the class though. It
was classes. Man. I think the draft class, my draft
class is the best draft. Yeah, from top to bottom.

(20:59):
I gotta check to join us. And we got about
Ben Wallace I think was second round. Yeah, we're talking
about class, right. People People go back and saying, well,
Lebron and them had you know, it was like they
were like it was like four or five and washing them.
I think washing that class. Mellow. I think mellow was

(21:27):
they had guys no no, no, hold on dog. We
had Marlberry and Twine Walkers, three Allence, the Jakovich, Steve
nash uh A, I canby but right at the time

(21:47):
and were talking about John Wallace. I was accused like
pull it up, just pull it up like a beast.
Damn what he was a beast. He got to it.
Galaskins was there. I mean, let me, says said Marbare right.

(22:08):
Reef too. Damn bro listen, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. They
say it's one of the best draft class ever. It
was deep, bro. It's conference final basketball. Y'all already know
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your game with your draft, like with the workout, you know,

(23:14):
back then, the workouts was different. You know, we had
to go against each other, you know, way the same
way you have to go against it, and you wanted
that right as such a high school player you're trying
to pol right. First thing that jumped out to me
right away was a strength. I was two seventeen, come
out of high school. Yeah, damn like, and we ain't
had no weight room. Everything you had it was it
was off the muscle, right, It wasn't no training with

(23:36):
none of that. Bro So going and playing against some
of the other stronger guys. I was like, damn, these
niggas is strong, right, so you had to try to
use your quickness whatever it is. But it was one
of those things, man, where I felt like from a
talent perspective, I was good. From a physical perspective, I
knew I needed some work right because they just they
just as different. They were more prepared from a physical perspective.

(23:56):
But and then you working out with you seventeen eighteen,
I'm saying he was when when you started working out
with the NBA teams for draft process comeing to high school,
he was seventeen age, Yeah, like what was your first
work out? Like, well, you know what, aarn did a
good job. My agent did a good job on making
sure things a little bit scripted, Like I didn't go

(24:17):
to the combine. That's crazy for a run to get
on the team with guards that don't want to pass
the ball, right, So you know, so so we did,
we did the private joints, would do the individual skill
set that would make sure that whoever they had there,
I was able to play one on one against. So
everything I did was was skilled work first, speed, strength,
and then that was all with the with the staff

(24:37):
and then whoever they had there would play one on one.
So I always felt like I was quick enough and
athletic enough to get to get what I need to
get to. But you know, when we banged bodies, it
kind of in my mind, I'm taking notes like, Okay,
he ain't fast, he ain't quick, but he's strong, right,
he know how to use his body. So I'm taking
all these notes and crazy enough I get drafted. Go
to Portland and we got Shee Wallace, we got Gary Trent,

(24:59):
we got clear Fribers, and we gotta beat his some bonus.
We drank steadily bruh vet super vench Listen, bro, the guys,
I'm gonna tell you crazy, the craziest story. So Gary
Trent picks me up. And if you know Gary Garrett
the real one, and Trent Man. So we go to
this Tariakee place right. First of all, nigga's sixty nine

(25:21):
to sixty two fifty whatever it is, Tell yo, he
order double water, tayokey chicken, and rice. I'm seventeen, right,
So I'm sitting there talking everything like kid, this kid
that's just come to kid food come out and he
started eating the food. He started picking the food up
with his hand talking, food flying out of his mouth

(25:45):
like I'm like, oh, oh, we on this. Then okay,
I see what type of duty is. And then he's like, yokay,
I'm gonna show you how to do this. So next
up we go to the weight room. He goes around
and I'm getting all my gear and stuff. All our
heir is clean, clean, clean. They got three three fold
plates on both sides. Years before I even hit the practice,

(26:05):
and my mind right away, I was like, okay, a
longte low practice. But I'm gonna tell them boys. Man,
them boys, I couldn't win any other place bub Portland.
They was prepared for me on the road. You know,
seventeen everybody knew I was seventeen two at the time,
seventy eighteen years old, right, You're the youngest player on

(26:26):
the team in the NBA. I mean yeah. And they
was prepared though. Niggas brought the games. Niggas made sure
I stay fed like everything. Brouh. It's a real shit, yeah, man,
the best they took care of you know, yeah, yeah,
it took care of me man. You know. Cliff Robinson
man rest in peace, man, he was my boy. I
might played the hardest one man, because he saw a

(26:50):
transition coming. She got there the same year I got
the gr Rider and all them Kenny Anderson, so it
was a dope. It was a dope squad. But then
they drafted another for it. So his mind every day
he gonna try to make your hell for me because
he know the replacements are in the building. He's already there.
You know, they already got a plan with me. Four
years on the road and he's been there at the

(27:12):
Ford position. So every day he got he had something
to say, right every day, hord files and everything. But
that he don't he don't know that that ship made
me better, bro in motivation, that made me better rest
peace man, Man. Yes, Bro, I always always used to
see like damn go to Portland. They always fall in

(27:32):
love with Portland. Bro loved going to tickets to him, man,
he paid away. I should Washington Jo comes through that thing.
You got busy out there for why ol po Man? Yeah,
people that's a good time man. Like people don't realize, Man,
they love that team. Bro fans is loyal, great fans. Man.

(27:53):
I loved to Portland. I was out there, so yes, sir,
I want to ask you though, for what was she
doing on your draft night? Though? Where he was at,
he was that you was going with the family, the
hood together and we stayed at the crib. But people
got a remember too, back then, when you made yourself
eligible for the draft, it wasn't no going back right,
all of all of aging and trying to test the war.

(28:15):
As soon as you put your right you you you there,
you don't get drafted. You done right. And so my
nerves are so bad, bro, Like I couldn't go to
New York, and I wanted to be around people that
I felt like it was gonna bring me comfort at
the ride, right, I could celebrate with him. I had
a pretty good feeling that I would get drafted. But

(28:35):
you know, bro, you know, anything happened in the draft. Bro,
somebody get taken early that shouldn't got taken early, and
throw you know, throw some things off, and all of
a sudden, you know, you you go on draft. We
see it every year in the drift, right and so awakeness. Yeah,
but we know we had like my high school coach
got me a little brown suit. I remember that ship
like he has a little brown nasty suit through the
brown suit and I just stayed that. Man, I just

(28:59):
I said that. I remember the phe was right there,
and I just sat there and watched all the picks.
And then when we got past we got to ten,
I started sweating a little bit. We got to fifteen,
I was like, oh, oh, sixteen, nothing seventeen because ring
that was that was my ring. And when that phone
ranged at seventeen, I was like, okay. But then, you know,

(29:21):
the crazy thing is that I remember talking to the Blaze.
They had they had a draft party and people were
booing because John Wallace was behind me. I remember John,
y'all remember John. I was busy, Yeah, Syracuse, yeah real, yeah,
he got He's another one that didn't go work out,
but he was a monster. But everybody wanted John Wallace

(29:44):
because what he did at Q's and they boring and boring.
I'm like, oh okay, I said, I'm gonna worry about
that ship later. I'm enjoy it. I'm gonna get letna
get to this money right quick. His motivation and that
was important for me, right. You know my mom and man,
you know, my mom working two jobs. My brother raised me,
so she was always crossing. So when I get up
in the morning, she was she was at a job,
and when I went to school, she came home from

(30:06):
the job. When I came back home from school, she
was already gone to the next job. So this was
Monday through Thursday, and Friday, Saturday, Sundays when she was
home with us. And this went on for years, bro,
straight up. Yeah, that's all right, man, that's all for show.
Now we're talking about in the league. We always talk
about out the mud. What was what was your out
the mud moment? Man, when you came in and either

(30:26):
bust somebody ass well you felt like me but long
or man, I'm a be honest fellas. My out the
mud was waiting for four years. Yeah, so a lot
of niggas can't go for four years, bro. Crazy thing is,
back then it was a three year to get a
three year contract off off the draft joint. Right, I
had a chance to go. It was to Chicago, it

(30:48):
was New York. That was Orlando had a chance to go. Start.
We had just lost Sean Elliott asked hit that corner three.
Didn't step on the line on how to put that
corner three? And that was what's kind of final? What's
comes funny? Yeah? So I'm young, right, so I'm like, okay, yeah,

(31:09):
I'm nineteen, twenty years old. We got a chance to
win a chip with the squad. All I need to
know is that I got a chance, and I'm gonna
have an opportunity to play and got to be starting right.
I just want to play and earn my earn my,
you know, my roses. When they come to that perspective
then on the court and they was like, yea, yah,
we're gon We're gonna gonna play. Mike dun lays like, yeah,

(31:30):
You're gonna play twenty four minutes game. This is gonna
be said minimum. So I said, okay, I'm going back.
If you could pull up right now. My numbers went,
my time went down every year I played at Portland.
So I always tell people, like the level of mental
toughness that you got to go through in that ship
when you watching everybody else your year. Now now it's
high school players coming in every year. Now those high

(31:51):
school plays are getting drafted and they're playing right away. Yeah,
I am in my fourth year. I just signed a
new four year deal, and they trying to suffer Kadence,
give me these excuses on why I'm not playing. My
brother hold on my first two years, I can I
can understand, you can say whatever you know. Physically not ready.
Third year I was ready for fear. I was ready,
no question, I was ready. I was out working people.

(32:14):
You actually nothing. They'll tell you that shit Pip did
something on ESPN. It's like, y'all don't know why the
kid ain't playing. I remember that playing everybody in practice.
And so that's my out of the mud because you
have to be wired different brouh And I remember I
told my mother, I said, look, but she said, yo,
are you sure you want to do this? You know,
go from high school to the pros. He's a men,

(32:35):
I said, Mom, I said, I got this, So I
got you. So every time that I got into my
feelings about whatever it is, you know they ain't playing
me or worry about somebody else doing something. I had
to had to remind myself while I was doing my
purpose right, my purpose to take care of my family,
my purposes to be good at what I do right.
I knew in my mind I said I'm an be
an all star. I got to like it was all

(32:58):
the way right. She because if you ain't trying to
be that, you're trying to be considered one of the
best at your craft. While you're there, you just you're
just picking up a check and session. Back then, it
was physical really at you and the power forward positions
every night, every night, every night, every night. The best

(33:19):
players power forwards in a way every night is taking naps.
What every schedule every night you played in their handshaking error, Yeah,
I know you play. Oh yeah, I'm talking about they
can they can? They can chuck you right, They're gonna
let you get to that sweet spot that you spending

(33:40):
going back and forth and it's a real fight. It
wasn't you know, it wasn't none of this. I always
tell people too, man like. I always try to be
careful and like what I talk about from this new
era to this to what we've been through, because I
don't want to be the nigga that be looking like
I'm hating on it. But the true fact of the
matter is, dudes, was about that life at every aspect
of it. Like it wasn't. No, y'all know this ain't

(34:03):
all right. We're gonna stay in the back. Yeah, you
think about how close the locker rooms out there you are. Yeah,
but you're gonna you're gonna won't pass them. It's gonna
be some action, right. And so that's the difference right
where I think people really respect the people's craft. But
you know, we can be friends, but when we get
on that court, it's either you or me in that situation.

(34:27):
So you know that that's I learned a lot through
Portland for sure, you know, being drafted there, that that
prepared me for that was college is one I want
for me talk to us about, you know, actually leaving
Portland being able to go up Indiana and showcase your
talents at a high level. Your crazy story is so

(34:49):
when we remember my boy, my boy Bondsie Wells sitting
at the end of the bench, Wells was playing the
Lakers man and they, uh, we thought we had that one.
And you know, winning sometimes heals things, don't gonna heal everything, right,

(35:10):
But I was like, Okay, well, I ain't playing as
much as I want to play, but shit, I'm getting
this experience. I'm going through in the conference finals again,
we got a chance we get we can get to
the finals. I think Indiana at the time was represented
the East like they had I think they were waiting
on the Western Conference opponent and we said, Yo, we
we'll beat We'll beat Indy. We got the team we'll beat,
so we just want to win this. I want them

(35:32):
niggas went on that run, right, Brian Shaw banked in
that three and all hell broke loose, and I remember,
I remember being super emotional on the bench because every
every reason for me going back there and not putting
myself first going to another team getting an opportunity was
to go win a championship. And when they throwing back

(35:54):
and win the game, I sat there and I told
by somebody's I'm done. I'm willing to sit out the
whole year. And that's what that was gonna happen. Right
at the time. Adidas was a big player in that too,
So so what Adidas did Sonny and Adidas and aren't
tell him. They reached out to the Trail, but they said, look,
if you don't trade him, he's not reporting. He's now

(36:15):
going into his fifth year. How many years it take
for you to play a NACA. I don't take five
years of playing nobody, bro, especially when you're getting better
like you. I've redefined my body, my game. Had I
played in the Summer League three straight years, bruh, Right,
you were in full compliance with the organization, full compliance, right,
and then to be to be dealt with like that,

(36:36):
and then when you go and talk to him, it's like, Okay, well,
I don't know, did you manage that? They come back
talk the general manager, it's the coach. It was that
type of thing. It was a circuit. So for me,
I was already physically ready. That's when I got the
Indy right away to most improved. You want most improved.
I But I'm gonna tell you the crazy story though.
It was in was in Oakland for the All Star Game.

(36:58):
I was at the Convention Center going to the dunk
contest and Isaiah Thomas. I never met Isaiah Thomas before.
He was coming and I was going and I was like, yo, man,
look that's Zeke right there. The nigga don't grow up
watching Zeke get busy. Zeke comes up to me, grab
my arm, He say, hey, man, keep working people, see
you your time coming. Not even six months later, he

(37:22):
gets he gets the job at Indy. The head coaches off.
The first move he makes. We had just got to Jamaica.
Me and my wife literally just got that. We like
the day of got a call from my agent like, Yo,
can you get back? You just you're going to Indyn.
We jumped on this little prop plane. Brouh, I'm not
even lying to y'all's like, we got out of that
so fast. But it wasn't no flights. I said, you'll

(37:42):
find me a plan. We on this little last prop
plane to get there. And when I got to South Carolina,
he was waiting on me. Mm hmm. He was waiting
on me, Bro, And that man became a real live
father figure for me, A real one he was. He
was a real one, bro, and he did what he said.
He did everything he said he was gonna do. Man,
he used to live like three or ministrul and Indy
go to his crib, sit down, pick his brain, talk

(38:04):
to him about hey him, like what do you see?
Like what made you look at things this way? Like?
What are some of the things that you think I
can do better? And he just like he built that
ship up, brouh. And that's why you took off like that.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I was a big fan of yours, watch you and everything.
When you got the Indiana that's the hometown you playing
against them every day already he was ready. They couldn't
fuck with you when you got the n and I thought,
first first year All Star, you got there. Bro, Listen,
I'm thinking killing them nigs. I'm watching what Brian Grant,

(38:38):
she Wallace Simones im doing to other people, and I'm
watching what I am doing in practice against them. I said,
oh yeah, I got this. I'm ready to rock. And
that's and that's what the thing that it was some
real It was some real niggas on that team, but
that really really a real dog. Yeah, but explain, I
tell my kids this all the time, bro, And that's
the same way like me and you got the same

(38:59):
situations because when I came to Portland Atthew left, I
got drafted, but I got so much better in practice.
And that's why I be telling my son, you know
he eleven twelve, telling my daughters, you get better in practice,
you go hard in practice. That's where I got my
game at going as she going at Sean. Niggas going
at me every day, even though I wouldn't playing it
the same route you took. But I got so much better.

(39:19):
So all my time came, like when you went to
the pacers, it was over with you looking like man,
this rugg in twenties and thirties and I'm watching you
know what I'm saying. It was that type of time
that pretty much had you feel like this is about
to be my franchise. Well, I felt like I needed to.
It's two things, right. I really respected what Reggie was right,

(39:42):
Reggie had he had the power to be told that memory.
They just came off a finals appear exactly right, that's
his first ever finals. All he had to do was like, yo, listen,
if y'all trade for this young boy, trade me, right.
He could have put the franchise in that position, but
you know, and that would have worked, right. They wouldn't
have traded for me, right, Reggie Miller would have said that.
But I remember like getting there as two things that
happened right away. I was sitting at the Champs Downtown

(40:06):
in Dinnapolis and literally like the table right next to
me and they're talking like I can't like I can't
hear them, right, It's like they're talking about me because
Dale Davis was such it was so loved in Indianapolis.
They was like, yeah, that's that's the guy they traded
down for, like in a negative in a negative tone.

(40:27):
So I'm like okay, cool, I'm taking I'm taking it
on that now. I say this to say, remember I
always was struggling. The demon that I was struggling with
it was acceptance, right. So it made me angry and
angry about everything that I did because I wanted to
be accepted because again my dad did never accept me.
So that was another learned behavior. So already I'm already

(40:47):
turning up. I said, Okay, I know what I gotta
go do. So I get to the RNUM and Reggie there,
and Reggie is like, yo, I'm gonna let you be
whatever you want to be as long as you work
for so I ain't got no problem with you. I
ain't got no problem. And he said, look, we need
to get younger and we're gonna rock with you as
long as you run it. And right away I knew
that was my opportunity, right because he could have easily

(41:09):
did went the other way with it, right. Regiment all
had some dope teammates. Reggie is meant the most to
me in my career, make no mistake, right, So everything
I did wasn't even about me. I knew I had
to be good for him to have an opportunity to
try to win a championship, and he made it clear

(41:31):
he wanted to win the championship. So it's like, okay, well,
you know, if I'm good the other things, the All
Star games and contracts, that's gonna happen, right right. But
it was always looking at Reggie like I sit next
to him every day, and so one of those things,
I just felt like I had a responsibility to be
what I need to be and represent, you know, the
organization a certain way. That was that that work, sure

(41:54):
as you want to get that anyway. Great. So it's
like an a legend man admiring you know man because
he do everything on the timely basis. Literally everything is
about on a timely basis. Like he shoot the same time,
he eat his snickapar at the same time, he drives

(42:15):
the same route, like everything is. It's precise. And I
knew I couldn't do that. I knew I couldn't get
to that level of like preciseness because again he is
to the he's looking at the cloud and late great
Benner the used to do the uh do all our
media stuff there for the pacers. He's always bringing his
coke same time, and that's what made him great. But

(42:38):
I will tell you this about playing with Reggie, Steph,
Ray and Clay all had the same similarities. All those
shooters had the same similarities. They gotta they got a
superstition about themselves, like they want to do repetition everything everything.
Wake up, put on my socks. You know what I'm saying.

(43:00):
They heard nothing do It's like I love that I
ain't a lie because you can build a source, some
sort of consistency, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, just
like with your shot, you want to want to shoot
the same way every time. I know I'm a clinking
at buck. Man, I ain't speaking like no shootout, But
I can't understand what the process was at the time. Man.

(43:23):
That was the reason why, Man, people don't realize. Man
like me and Reggie was tight brouh and and everything
that transpired with the Pacers, man was Yeah, I just
I just saw something the other day with Jack talking
to Reggie. They did an interview on all the smoke,
and what Jack said was the truth. Like, I don't
care who came there. We made it clear on what

(43:46):
our purpose was. Right, let this, Let let the o
G walk out with a chip and I was a
gender and you know, unfortunately, you know for us as
we as I progressed at as a as a franchise player.
We're all young, right, So me and Ron had this

(44:08):
thing right, and it became you know, when you when
you have two real, real niggas like getting together, right,
And I didn't at the time. I wasn't as educated
about what he was going through. So I took it
as in he was trying to derail what we were
trying to do. Right, So when Reggie, you get ready

(44:28):
to talk about I just wanted the two get to
get together. I wasn't trying to hear that. But either
you show up every day and you give us what
you need to give us for we can go win
this game, or we got a problem. And that's that
became a real thing in our locker room. Really for
the existence. I tried a man, come on out, do
to this man, let's go grab dinner. Let's let me

(44:49):
freaking let me figure it out. But y'all't know back then,
if you said somebody was crazy or whatever, it's like
a torn achilles, right, it wasn't no mental health back then.
That's what it definitely was, right, straight up, right, and
so that became a little bit of a challenge for
us in our locker room. And one thing we were
really good at is when they threw the ball up,

(45:12):
we just went and hooped. But then when we stepped
off that court, we went our separate way when no
come rider right now the team it was, but me
and Ron wasn't right right and in order to win
a chip yet, yeah, you gotta be you gotta be right.
It's got to be that. And we just never like
I felt like at the time, I felt like he

(45:32):
was disrespecting what we were trying to do. And you know,
we tried, and I tried my best man to look
at it differently, but I wasn't At the time. I
was already again, I'm already dealing with my own demons,
like making no mistake, brother, Like when you never feel
whole and you achieved so much and that's never enough.

(45:56):
And I'm triggered all the time, like literally like triggered
all the time. Where if I go into the hallway
and I see my peers on my teammates or whoever
with that, Dad, like I'm already I'm shutting down. I'm
feeling a certain way, I'm going home, I'm going to
eat in my room, and my chef at the time,
I already knew the way to put my food at it.
I text him, no, where my food go, right, And

(46:20):
so I'm dealing with that. And when you're trying to
you're trying to build a career after not feeling appreciated
in Portland, didn't feel appreciated and important. I felt appreciated
from the city. Didn't feel appreciated from the organization right, right,
And it's amazing organization, by the way, shout out to
the Allen family who gave me the opportunity to be

(46:42):
even sitting here having this conversation with you guys. So
I respect that. But from my basketball perspective, it came
down to appreciation, right, And so that was the thing
that really kind of spearheaded. As we continue to get better,
we got a little bit more nasty and how we presented,
you know, ourselves on the court. But again, when you
ain't like this, it's hard to win, right. You can

(47:03):
win a lot of games, but you ain't gonna win
no championship or league. In the championship, y'all had y'all
had a sixty sixty win season yeah. Yeah, we was
playing like an MVP calible type. Yeah year man, he
was putting it at work. What fueled that year? Man,
Every year was just a different year. It was it
was let's kay, let's keep building, Let's keep building. We

(47:27):
knew like that year, we knew we were good. We
knew we were good, and we did it off just
raw talent, like not really knowing how to win, how
to win a championship, right, we just said, lit roll
the ball out, We're gonna be better than you today.
And that was our thing, right, and then we need
to break down the games where you know, we had

(47:48):
to win at least you know, we're a bad five games. Uh,
spread was you know, if we won three, we were average,
we won four, we were we were good, and we
were five we were great. And we we rocked off
that same pattern the whole season. And I don't think
we lost three games in the road the whole year.
Sounded like analytics stuff. We did that in Portland too. Yeah,

(48:12):
and Rick Carlo I did a good job with that. Man,
he put that on the ball. He was like, yeah,
that's all we gotta do is win you know four games,
you know, minimum three and we're gonna end up here.
And we just started. We just started getting after Big Year.
Big Year. Man like, Indiana was was everything to me.
Bro Like I felt like, you know, going through with

(48:33):
my past and my upbringing and having these deficiencies, that
felt like I found a home. I found people that
really loved me and appreciate me, and it made me
want to do more. Right. So I was so you know,
so into the community and you know, doing things, and
it was like, okay, this is my family, like they
really rocking with me, right, and then you know, you
go you move forward after that. You know that sixty

(48:54):
I think sixty four win season. You know, we we
coming back into the season. I get the team to come.
Then early we said, okay, well we lost in the
conference finals. Wasn't really wasn't really together. We had some
Ron had some issue, you know whatever. It was the
game that Reggie got blocked. Remember back then, he used
to be like a two or three day span when

(49:16):
you had to switch, you know, from one home to
the next. We hadn't seen Ron since that game, or
we saw Ron it was at shoot around in the
conference finals, right, And so it was on those things
where I didn't know how to handle, well, I need
to handle and then he didn't know how to handle
it because he was fighting his own dens, right, and

(49:39):
so obviously we're going to lose that game. We talked
we get Jack, and we felt like Jack was the
piece that will will you know, get us over the top.
We had we to look were about to run through
the league. That's what we're gonna do. And at the
time we go to go to Detroit, we felt like
we need to set u set the tone. Yeah, heah,

(50:03):
And you know, obviously they didn't like us. We didn't
like them. I got I got some homies on the team, right,
we're good. We were good, you know, beyond the court.
But when we on the court, I don't like you.
I don't like you. You know, we've been boys since
it's a build up to this ship. Anyway, it's a
real people don't realize. To man, crazy enough. They used

(50:23):
to call the hotels they be outside the hotel. It was.
It was one of those rivalries.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
They call it the frank called it's called it bro
And so you know, obviously, you know, we get to
the joint and we take care of business.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
And then the fight happened. Yeah, man, you got to
enlighten me on that, man, because I ain't. I ain't
gonna let my whole time planing.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Fans ain't really never got disrespect from me like that.
But it had to have been something to transpride leading
up to that. You take us through that day, man.
So we knew it was a national televised game, so
we we wanted. We were we were locked in, we
were engaged. We said, look, were about to go put
some hands on these boys, and we did. We understood.

(51:10):
I think it is it is a balance. I think
having it going into Detroit was amazing for a couple
of reason why the intensity and the hate was real
so motivated. Feel it, bro, you feel your hair standing up,
Like they didn't have this announcer, I don't know you
remember what's the what's the black dude name? Like, yeah,

(51:31):
I'm familiar with that, bru. The pre game when he's
doing the starting lineup, bro, like you about to blow
a vessel, like, oh, okay, them niggas on this tonight, huh.
And so the game start, we get, we get rocking.
Obviously we win. People don't realize that the ref that

(51:52):
was was picking games. Dory did that, gay, Yeah, he
did that game. So when you look at this process, bro,
like when when Ben gets into it with Ron, it's
like almost like a five minute almost a five minute
time lapse. Think about this, like you in the game,

(52:15):
something happened, you know, they break it up. Whatever, These
refs step back. So you know Ben had all these
all these bands, we just started throwing them. He started
taking out throwing them, right, So the first one go,
second one go boom, third now or now in the
crowd like, oh yeah, let me let me get into it.

(52:39):
So they getting hyped. And then so Ron actually does
his job. He goes and lay down on on the
actual scoreboard and Ben still those the last band. That's
when the cup came right, right, And so we all
thought that Ben ignited it. That's just how we felt.

(53:02):
Ben thought that he was going to be suspended, right,
And so one of those things where it was unfortunate
because it was on national television, right, you had the
refs that didn't even separate the teams. Brouh. The teams
are trying to separate each other, right, which is crazy

(53:23):
to think, Bro, that a five minute lapse real time, right,
you got players going yelling back and for coming down
and all this other that never happened. Bro. You know,
they cleaned it up. So it was like it was
like and you see the ref standing over there and
they're not really you know, not really trying to you know, engage.
And so the thing that really once everything really transpired, bro,

(53:48):
Like it was so can you imagine and I you know,
can you imagine being in an arena and you got
on a jersey and it ain't a soul in the
arena to protect you. Yeah, you little your little island.
You're a little on the island, right, So so think
about what you're gonna do. Right, you see some cast

(54:10):
run on back against the wall, you know, you in
the Terror Dome in Detroit, you know where. You know
they don't like us. We don't like them. You know,
we have some issues. They have some issues with our
fans in nd So it was like one of those relationships.
And I'm like, bro, like they said, I'm just kind
of standing and I'm looking like what in the hell
is jump across? Was jumping across like seats, rocking the

(54:34):
separating the seats. They got the little dust pants running around. Yeah,
let me say this. I respect the position the NBA
was in. I do small type, billion dollar business. They're
not about to mess that up. I was disappointed like

(54:59):
every but he won't do process. Like everybody want an
opportunity to show, Okay, this is right, this is like,
this is what happened. So they reacting at the time,
the late great David Stern. Obviously it's a different type
of commission than Adam Silver. Right. It was like he
run it with iron fist. So he wasn't trying to
hear nothing right. I heard, I hear a lot of Yeah,

(55:23):
he wasn't playing. He wasn't trying to hear nothing right.
It's the Conference finals picks with the Grandfather. You guys
already know what to do. Head over the Prisspicks, download
the app and use promo cole Mud. You get fifty
dollars instantly if you play with this little was five
dollars with your first lineup Conference Finals the last four.
It's doing that for the East game five to night.

(55:45):
This series has been a battle, the battle of point guards.
Both of them has some good game, but you know
that man in Indiana had a triple double last game.
No turnofs. So here my first three picks. Let's go
more points for Tyres and more on assists as well,
and on rebounds. I don't think he'll get ten again,

(56:12):
so I go less for my last three picks. They're easy,
Jaylen Bruston, We're going more on points for sure. He
a YU shooter. He gonna come out guns blazing and
get a lot of shots up in the elimination game,
We're gonna head over to the big fella, now, big Cat.

(56:32):
I like what he's been doing this series. He's been aggressive,
showing why he's a good big man in the league.
So let's go more on points and rebound. And that's
it for that and those my picks for the week.
Make sure you guys go download the app, use the
promo Cold Mud, and let's get back to the episode.
And So it's one of those things, bro where I

(56:55):
was like, I was hurt because everybody Ron did what
he did because he because however he decided Jack was
in support, right loyal. People don't even realize bruh. And
I have this, I have this, I have this, this
thumb drop this big with everything. That's how the Netflix
stock got done. So I'm there and I'm watching, I'm stunned,

(57:20):
and I'm looking around like I was really trying to
get down here. It took me a second of digest it.
Next thing you know, everybody's on the court and I'm
looking around. There ain't no security. Next thing you know,
you got a dude jump around my neck. See nobody
never ever saw this, right, and the film was available,
guy jump around my neck. I had a security guard

(57:42):
that toit it with me everywhere. He into it with
a fan. I'm at that point. Now I'm out of shock.
Now I'm in retaliation. Right boom slammed the dude on
the table, and I looked to the left because again
my security got is to the left. And I looked
to the left and I see Anthony Johnson down there.
See people think I just ran in and was just
hitting me. That wasn't the case. So I saw him.

(58:04):
He's on the ground, the guy the look guys on
top of him and there's people standing around him. I
see Anthony Johnson trying to get up, and I run
over there and I slipped, but I hit him because
now he's he's trying to bring harm to my my
my homeboy. Here's the thing that's that really, that really

(58:24):
bugged me out. See, I went to federal court. See
people thought I was suspended and came back just so
that did all my suspension. I went to federal court
and won. I went to federal court in New York City.
We went through appills process, we went to all of
and one and the judge said I had every right

(58:46):
to get that mal off your back to do what
I did. Yeah, every right, me. He ain't gonna talk
about that. Nobody said nothing right, and that was fine.
I understood the timing wasn't right, but here's here's where
I was hurt. And again you got to think about this, right.
So my mindset is, it's a standard how we do

(59:06):
we do things every day? Right. My mother was a superwoman.
She set that standard because we that's all we had to.
We had to live off of the standard. We have
much So when I'm in there and people talk about
like leading leadership, put your ass in that. Man. I'm
sure grabbing your jersey jerseys was poor like all of this,

(59:30):
and and I think the problem. We show up every
day to these teams and we try to be best
the best we can be for these teams, and at
the end of the day, we have a responsibility for them,
right whereas it responsibility for them to us, like they
left me out there to drive. Bro, I'm talking about

(59:51):
to this very moment, brouh like they have never said
okay with ja oh Man, listen, Man, I get it
was a terrible situation. And I'm not saying that you know,
nobody owe me anything, but when you give everything you
got like they have, the NBA has a responsibility just
like you tell us, we have responsibility to show up
and represent them the way that they need to represent it. Right.

(01:00:11):
You they watched the tape. They watched everything in the tape.
They had all the information that we use for the
court case. So I thought at some point they'll come
out and say, you know what, this is an unfortunate situation.
You know, whatever you want to say about ron Jack
or me, you said however you want to say it,
but base based off the truth. And to this very moment, Bro,

(01:00:33):
I'm still listening to all. You know, people still ask
me about this all the time. I'm like, Bro, like
you had a chance to really set the set the
table right, and then the NBA was one thing, and
then the Pacers. I'm the same one that won that
community Sistan Award three times, NBA Community System Ward. Right,
I'm the same one that comes to toy drives, to
food drives, to you know, taking kids to proms, starting

(01:00:55):
the All Star Game, so kids and in Indie can
be seen by the way to two of them went
to the NBA. Then they got a college opportunity. I'm
not saying nigga, right, But then you sit there and
and the Pacers especial to me, bro, And that's why
I was so hurt. I was hurt, bro, Like when
they when they didn't say anything, they didn't they didn't say, okay,

(01:01:16):
well say something. Suit up for me like I suit
up for you, suit up for me like I suited
up for suit up for your community. Right, I treated
your community like I was from the community. I didn't
have to do any of that, right I was. I
was being I was being what I needed to be
for my community, for the people that supported me. So

(01:01:36):
when you think how I think, like my idea is like, okay,
now they abandoned me. That was crushing for me. Brouh.
I will tell you I lost all love for basketball,
Like I did not love basketball the rest of my career. Bruh.
And that's when my body started to break down, right
because it was its equivalence of right of like having

(01:01:56):
a wife, right and you get up every day, you
go to work, and you put in for your your
wife and your family, and then she turned around right
in front of you and they just do you wrong,
blatantly with no regard to it. And so like you
got people think you you let you let a narrative
be created, not only created, but let it be engraved

(01:02:17):
when you know the quality of nigga I am read like,
I'm not the one like you're not listen. I ain't
gonna see here and say, you know, I'm church bells
like if you if if you try to you bring
action to me, I'm gonna react about that, and I
will say that, but I'm not the one that's going
out looking for action. I'm gonna protect myself and others,

(01:02:38):
you know, in the process of something like the brawl.
And I'm just really disappointed, bro Like, but you know,
I went the rest of my career and it was
it's hard to lose love for that you love so much,

(01:03:02):
that created so much opportunity for your family, right, Like
I love basketball brouh. That's my safe place when everything
else was going on in my life. I loved basketball
and when the Indiana Pacers after time, after the craziness
calmed down, or the NBA, I think about this, like

(01:03:25):
I feel this way about it. They've given me a
chance to have an amazing life. Shout out to the
Simon family who gave me the max deal and any
other team who paid me. But y'all know when you
go like we like warriors, are you? You show up
every day to the gym and you and you give
it you all like people, are you taking kidney tests?

(01:03:48):
I get I get taken living kidney tests at the
every season because I'm popping pills to go play. Mmmm
And just you say that saying like, yeah, so it's
like this thing, bro, Like when always cringe when people
ask me about that, because I felt like I felt

(01:04:10):
like at the time when that happened, I probably would
have I probab would have been maybe five six seven
time all so yeah, consecutively I was. I was in
that moment. But when it happened, bro, I remember like
them saying, look, we don't want you around our arenas.
You can't go no arenas you can go no practices,
we want you around nothing, NBA. And I got to

(01:04:33):
put it in perspective, it's the same thing I felt
like it was saying that my dad told me right,
you ain't good enough for me no more, I don't
want you right And now that shit was impactful to me, bro,
Like that shit really broke me down mentally, emotionally, physically.
My body just broke down, bruh, because all the love

(01:04:54):
was gone. You talked about you talked about that Max
deal and that's sat in That Meg deal then didn't
bring you away from you know, the acceptance, Like did
you feel accepted by the pacers at that time? Or
was did the money you heal anything? Is what I'm
asking Nah, because I signed a deal before that happened.

(01:05:16):
That deal was still ongoing when I was gone. But y'all,
y'all know this man. You can be You can have
all the money in the world, bro, but it ain't nothing.
You can live miserably straight up, and then you find
yourself like but so when you have when you have

(01:05:37):
an abandonment issue, you try to replace these gaping emotional
holes with things that just temporary fixes. Right, And I
don't know like I've moved. I've used this thing to
go to kids now and give kids information into to

(01:06:00):
deal with that I see struggle with certain things or
things that I struggle with. But I tell you man
like that, you know any times about to give you
a hundred plus million dollars. Man, it's it's generationally changing everything.
But I still feel like I had more to give.
And there was no way that I felt like leading

(01:06:21):
the league in blocks and don't make one of the
three offensive I mean defensive teams right getting down, getting
down to the All Star Game the same year, people
realize I made the All Star team that same year
in Houston, and I'm not even nowhere to be found,

(01:06:41):
you know what I mean? That was that was my
first year I made it. Yeah, And it was like
one of those things, BRO, where it's such an honor
to play in the league. Bro, such an honor, but
it's responsibility that we all have, not only as players,

(01:07:03):
but as an organization and as a league to protect
yours right, staying with it right when even when it's
even when it's starting to rattle a little bit. Right.
They had an opportunity, and again, people have their different
opinions on what happened, mineus the facts, so what it
is right, And as soon as that judge said he

(01:07:23):
had the right to do what he did and he
should have never been suspended, that should have been something
that should have been like okay, then they should have
like okay, yeah, right again at that point, at that time,
we are all held separately. So my case is different
than Ron's and Jackson, right, But at the same time,
it felt like I was the one that buried the
burden of all of it. When you look at it, Hey,

(01:07:46):
you did come back early. Well how many games they
give you? So I got twenty five? I got twenty
five games. But then by the time we got through
arbitration and finally got to Supreme Court, it was I
was right at fifteen and his immediate reinstatement. But people

(01:08:06):
thought that I was just coming back off suspension. So
it was one of those things where it was so tight.
It was so tense and tight that nobody wanted to
talk about it. I didn't even want to talk about it.
There was a lot of underground work done, Bro, whoever
your team was around to tell her, even still today,
they definitely had your best interest to get you back
on that court. Yeah that was quick. Yeah, now they
did a good job. Man. My lawyers, all the lawyers

(01:08:29):
of the union did a good job. But it just
made it's like like I knew after that it was over.
I knew it. Bro. It's no crazy feeling to be
coming to show up to arena every day and know

(01:08:50):
that they're not fucking with you, Like it was clear.
But it's a crazy thing, bro. So what this shit
was like? You came back off of suspension because you
feeling like they ain't fuck with you, they ain't have
your back. The NBA ordered pace. So what that was
like coming back? I was angry when you look at

(01:09:12):
averything like thirty two ship the rest of the way
I was. I was angry and ended up being started.
How I got to be a starter, I don't to
this day, I don't even know. Because I was like,
well they gonna manipulate them numbers, boy, waiting to be
be a start coming off that, and I ended up
being the start of fans voted the fans is really
rocking with me. It voted me in and it was

(01:09:34):
it was experienced. Man. I remember like being at media
day brouh and there was like two people talking to
me as a starter, like only two people had all
the media there that was talking to me. And it's
just one of those things, bro where I just I
wish the Pacers would have took some time and really

(01:09:57):
really showed the support that I that I really needed
to keep going. That's for sure. They made a nigga
realize fast that it's a business, you know. And I
always tell people, man, if you think for one second
you think that people care, they care when they need
to care, when they have to care, when you're hot

(01:10:18):
and you're rolling. But it's a draft every year. So
I remember being on a cruise they called me and
this year they drafted Danny Grange and say, hey, look,
you know, Joe, we's gonna let you know, we're gonna
drift Danny. Right, he's god. I think it's gonna be
really good for the organization. But that was already replacement,
already in the making. And we ain't we ain't stupid,

(01:10:41):
you know, like the teams are always looking for the
next player, right, Yeah, you're right. I remember Danny Age
used to keeping so g with me though, like used
to be like, t A, what's up with you? I'll
be like what's up? He'd be like, not much, just
looking for somebody to come take your job. Fat out

(01:11:01):
shut up there, yo, So that can't me in the gym.
I'm like, yo, yeah, somebody coming to give me. So
I always had to stay working, bro. It wasn't know
like you get what I'm saying is stay ready. You
ain't got to get ready before saying even you know
what I'm saying. I was on that type of time, man.
But yeah, it's interesting man, Indiana. One thing about you'all fans,

(01:11:24):
I ain't gonna lie. I know that you happ't out there,
but y'all fans a little wild too, though. I ain't
gonna lie. Right. They called me some thing got them man,
listen bro, they but Bro, the arena is supposed to
be that way. Yeah, you're supposed to try to get
somebody off their game. Right. They might say anything, right,

(01:11:44):
but it's a line that you gotta you gotta slop
that right that you don't cross right your s I
always said, look, man, when you said that to me
was outside this arena, no right, So they start laughing.
I started laughing. Yeah, that's what it's supposed to be.
I think from perspective when it comes to nap Man,
Naps is a special place, man. It's a it's a
it's a hard hat, you know, hard working you know

(01:12:07):
state uh and nap is you know obviously the city
is it's a pretty amazing place. Man Like, like those
people they were they were patient with the with the
twenty one year old that had no real experience, right,
they gave me a chance to kind of grow into
my own. Obviously I was able to rock right away.
But you know, through all through any mistakes that I

(01:12:29):
will make as a player from a basketball standpoint, they
were still rocking with me through all that incident. Because
I'm from marrying Indiana, so I'm right by the Napolis.
They had y'all back. You know, we had Indiana. They
loved y'all. The fans like the organization did what they
did the NBA, but the fans of the city they
still they brace y'all, like, yeah, rock with you, stag run.

(01:12:53):
And that's the thing man, Like, you know, people think
when you talk about love for a city, man like,
you gotta rep you gotta you gotta realize it. Again,
I already knew what I was dealing with, right I knew.
I knew a part of me was devastated, brou because
now you got a whole perception around the world about
me that ain't ain't the truth, right, no, right? And

(01:13:14):
so I knew when we drafted Danny the team was
in a good place, right. I knew what I can
give emotionally, Like if you ain't whold emotionally mentally, you're
never gonna be good physically for the team, right. And
so what people don't realize, man, like when I talk
to the Pacers, when when on my exit out of there,
it was like I could have I could have forced

(01:13:34):
a hand to go other places, but the real Hibbert
deal happened because I said, look, I want to make
sure you guys are in a good place as I
move on. See, none of that conversation was made right
when I when I sit and talk with the Pacers
about hey, look this is over right, and they kind
of felt the same way. I said, well, Gerald, we

(01:13:55):
can't just give you away, right, And I said, okay, good, whatever,
like just whatever you guys got, that's that's it down,
let's talk about it. But at that point I would
have been doing injustice to that city into that that
same city that supported me, that same organization that supported
me when I got there, bring me there. There was
no way I was gonna sit around. And I knew
what I was dealing with. I didn't feel that same
level of love and and and consideration when it came

(01:14:17):
to me as a person. It had nothing to do
with the basketball player. I took it as if well,
you ain't you. You're not willing to stand up for
me as Jermane a person, we can't never be the same, right,
And then it became a crazy thing in that bro
where it was like this, it's a cultural issue happening.

(01:14:38):
Right When that happened, like it was like the people
Bob Costs and them talking about like corn rolls and
tattoos and do rags, I'm like, well, what what we
talking about? So not a whole league is under attack?
I saw the dress code happened, right, Oh, it's too
it's too urban when the culture are culture is the

(01:15:00):
one that built it. Yeah, but you think about it,
brou Yeah, hip hop and our culture what we are like,
that's that's what took the NBA to the next stratosphere. Yeah, right, Obviously,
you know, David Stern made some amazing, some amazing decisions,
a lot of great people at the NBA office that
do a lot of great work behind the scenes that

(01:15:20):
helped build the business man. But I just felt like,
when you sitting there, you got people looking at you crazy.
You have niggas that don't want to wear suits looking
at you crazy. They think you the reason why we
wearing a suit, right, you know that type of thing, right,
And I'm already on one, so you know, I love
waiting something like ready. But it just it was a

(01:15:42):
lot happening so fast, Bro, that it didn't allow. It
didn't allow. It was no subtle. I didn't have it.
I didn't have it. I didn't have any time to
settle mental and emotional. And that's how I felt like
it was time to do something different. Mm. Yeah, it's
cool to come with those you know, those nose like, okay,
it's my time is up. When I left Members, I

(01:16:03):
didn't want to leave Bro, really, I ain't want to
leave Bro. I ended up going to the New Orleans
Pedalts that I looked around. They got me playing we
had this. It was all that type because you they
got this on. He's been nowhere, he been no Allstar finished.
So when I'm asked, I'm saying this, say, when you

(01:16:24):
went to other teams, did you feel like because you
pretty much went to what the Warriors, the Celtics. Right,
So I went to So I originally wanted to go.
I wanted to go to Miami from Indy, but Toronto
had a pick and they were I guess they were

(01:16:47):
talking at the Pacers about the Royal hibert or they
wanted they want to get a big in exchange because
they already had, you know, Danny Boshing Washingtronto around that. Yeah,
so so I had to go to Toronto. So I
spent six month in Toronto. Then I went to Miami. Okay, right,
Toronto was a dope, dope place. It was cold as hell,
cold as hell, bro And that says a lot coming

(01:17:09):
from Indian but it was. It was cold. I hadn't
really no, no real complaints about that. It was amazing,
amazing country. Uh. They loved it, loved the raptors. It
just wasn't a great fit. You know, at the time,
I was trying to figure out how we fit. And
then obviously at the time I was making so much
money that it was it was you know, do you

(01:17:31):
I'm always considering in consideration of like, what what does
it mean for me to be on this team, right,
for this team to take up me and take me in.
I know what I hied, bump up against the cap
with my salary? Does do me and Bosh fit? Okay? Right?
And it didn't. Necessarily it wasn't. It wasn't that we
didn't fit. It just wasn't. It wasn't the right situation, right,

(01:17:52):
Uh yeah, yeah, So that's another thing they had Andre
as well. So he was he was number one pig,
you know. So you know you're looking at kind of everything.
It's almost like I became more of of like a
I was like coaching the player development, and like in
my mind, I'm like, Okay, this is what we got

(01:18:13):
to do, Boom, this is how we got to do it.
In my mind, I'm thinking like, okay, well, if I'm here,
if it's not this way, then I'm probably holding up
the progress or some somebody else too. And again my
mindset had changed. I was I wasn't in kill mode
no more because it stripped you, strip me. Come on,
bro a lot from you deflated you, but it deflated me.

(01:18:33):
Bre stripped, It stripped me from the very thing that
made me what I was, and that that was hard
for me. Brou Then, I you know, going to Miami
getting with d Wade, that was a great experience. It's
the hardest experience that you Listen. I'm I'm gonna tell
people I forgot I did Q Rich uh uh po. Yeah,

(01:18:57):
d Miles just just something uh Ai joints as well.
But I think niggas took this the wrong way. We were
talking about the Oreo cookies. I wasn't really talking about
I wouldn't. I didn't choose Oreo cookies over over a championship.
That's that's idiotic for people to think. I was saying
the eight percent body fat and when you in that,

(01:19:17):
think about eight percent for a big nigga's crazy. Yeah,
he ain't never had. I ain't got a chance. Right,

(01:19:39):
it was, and they wasn't missing every every I want
to tell you. That's why I couldn't even suit up.
You were gonna make it, bro And I just remember
like it was one of those things where you know,
you know, par Rally is a champion man, so you
don't question that, right, you don't question every either it
works for you, it doesn't ain't no in between, no
gray area, and I I enjoyed being down there, but

(01:20:02):
I realized, like I'm I'm looking at I'm third, I'm
at I'm like thirty years old at the time, I'm
looking at food like br I don't know if I
can eat this. And I'm already trying to try to
redefine myself and trying to figure everything out. But but
what it was, I didn't feel like and in Boston
call too, so uh, Paul called me, Ticket called me,

(01:20:27):
and then we knew shock was coming too. So it
was like, Okay, I want to deal with this situation
where I gotta take I got to try to make
the eight percent body facts. Remember, they don't let you play.
If you don't make it, you can't play the game.
So it's like, now I'm gonna go do something different
because I think Boston just you guys just came up.
When where yard you guys win at two thousand and eight,
there you guys that just came off of it. And

(01:20:48):
so when when Danny and them calls like, okay, here
we're gonna get you. We'll get shocked and go, I said,
oh lord, were about to allow to go get this
and so my mind, so I'm gonna go here knowing
that Brown was coming there, and so it's one of
those things where I just felt like Miami was cool.

(01:21:09):
Let me move on to Boston, let me try to
win the championship for I shut if I shut shut
shot down. And that ended up being two of the
hardest years of my life. Not old Doc Man. I
wasn't playing under Doc Man. It was different, Bro, it
was different Doc is doc if you is, if you

(01:21:29):
were part of his group, he's rocking with you, Like
I never felt like and maybe it's had something to
do with me as well, you know, not understanding what
that what that? What what that was? You know, like
you knew Ticket, you knew Paul uh Rondo and Rey Right,
that's the nucleus, right, But I never felt like it

(01:21:54):
was like a welcoming thing, right. You know. I didn't talk.
I didn't talk a lot to him. I talked a
lot to Danny, right, And so in my mind, I'm like, well,
if I ain't talking a lot of the coach, I'm
talking to the president of GM, that the coach like me, right, right,
And so again I'm scrambling. I'm still scramming trying to
find that place where I can say, I'm gonna sit down.

(01:22:14):
I know I'm not what I used to be. How
can I go into a team and help win? But
at that time, I was already still fractured. So my
body was falling apart. Right knee was fucked up right injury,
just like I was falling apart. I was the worst
physical two years of my career in Boston, and I
tore both risks. Right. I had had knee surgery, so

(01:22:37):
I had had four surgeries in two years, right, And
so it's one of those things where me and Doc
really didn't click. Not because of one day or another.
I just wasn't mentally and emotionally there. I was trying,
like I was trying every day. I was trying to
make it work, trying to do is, trying to do that.
But it just wasn't those things where I did. You know,

(01:22:57):
they had already already they had already won a championship,
you know what I'm saying. So I got to come in.
I got to show something to help them try to
get back, whatever that is, even if it's minimal. And
then Doc was like, yeah, yeah, don't worry about scoring,
not what you mean, don't worry about storing. What you mean.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
You remember now storing Now they built it's a lot
of time. I was the big man stopping man.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
It was, it was, it was, It was crazy, bro like,
And that's an amazing place to play, Like, I'm a
truly blessed man to play in some amazing cities. Man,
that really really rock with the teams, really support the teams,
and you feel you feel guilty to a point that
you can't give what you need to give. Right. The

(01:23:59):
competitive nature always about that, man like, bro like, fuck
you doing? Man Like, just go compete, like, just try
and give everything you got. And I'm getting injections in
my knee. Knee swoll out here all the time. Do
it tell you? I stayed at the doctor, right, It's
so much to get going every day. So I come
home with practice knee reacted, had to go Norman, take
ice machine, just get ready for the next day. Yeah,

(01:24:22):
And so it was rough man and I just you know,
I had a two year there that that ran out.
And then uh, late great Kobe Bryant called me. He's like, yo,
I got a doctor and uh in Europe and you
should check out and it's this authorokind treatment that we
went over there, got it. Chose to go to Phoenix.
Phoeneax didn't have any expectations that a young team. They

(01:24:46):
wasn't talking about, no playoffs. They was in the full
rebuild mode. He said, perfect place for me to go, right,
let me go. Let me go help lead some of
these young boys, help them out. It was a one
year stopping. Then Bo Myers called me, who was actually
my agent he worked under r and tell him and

(01:25:06):
he said, he look, I need you come in and
just be a mentor, right, helped mentor our young our
young boys. And I said, okay, cool. I said, but
you know, Bob, if I come out there, because I
really don't want to necessarily play, you know, multiple years anymore,
I just come out there for a year. Can you
guys connect me with the business of San Francisco Man
Warriors Man. Shout out to the Warriors Man. They connected me.
They opened up so many doors for me from a

(01:25:26):
business perspective. But I got a real respect for Steph
Clay and Draymond. I'm gonna tell you the thing that
really jumped out to me about Stephan Clay in particular,
as the first I walk into the gym, I see
they're always at the opposite shooting at opposite goals, and

(01:25:48):
so I just stopped and watch, watched him shoot, and
they're just shooting, right, And I heard I hear him
counting and then to go in and he didn't count.
I'm like, why is he skipping some of these mates?
He said, if he hit the rim, it don't count.
That's how they train. So how they train, he said,
if he hits the rim, that shot does not count.

(01:26:08):
And he was shooting I think it was one hundred
threes before and after practice, right, so when people see
him shooting now and it's just that's repsos, bro. And
that was like ooh. And it was strange because you know,
you get you get a young team and a bunch
of young players. They're gonna stop bumping his because contracts

(01:26:30):
coming up in full effect. And he was just they
were just like this, Bro, I mean just like this.
And and Bob Myers always he always says it's on television.
I went to him before I left. I said, Bob,
I said, whatever you do. We had just lost against
the Clippers. I said, do not break this team up.

(01:26:50):
I said, y'all got something with these boys. Because I
don't been in that was like my eighteenth year, so
I don't been in a lot of locker rooms, bruh,
And I ain't seen this with young players, this level
of work consistently, to see hunger desire. When we lost
against the Clippers, it was like my last game. I
remember is like yesterday, Like they were crushed. This is

(01:27:11):
the first round. It wasn't like the finals were you know,
the conference finals were. He was like, we worked this hard,
like they was crushed. And I'm looking around at him.
I was like special. He was in the West at
that time. It was we saw him as puffs too.
It was like, yo, we coming to go and stay.

(01:27:33):
Were about to get this win they like. And the
next year, bro, it was like we was coming to
that struggling to stand of the game. Bro, just win
the championship. I'm like, I'm like, damn, these boys capt
grew up quick then. But you putting the repetition on it,
letting it be known. Man, the boys practiced like the
practice like that that. It ain't no overnight. You was

(01:27:54):
get to hear that, man, that was It's amazing, man,
like it was and they were so special. Bro. I
remember like like I remember like so sitting in that
locker room and I still had my jersey one. I'm
sitting there and I'm like, damn, this is it. Like
I knew it. So I'm just sitting there trying to

(01:28:14):
soak it all. Man, like eighteen years boy, that was
the majority of my dope life, right, and I'm like
sitting there, I'm like damn, like I'm trying to hold
it together. And it was like, you know, the equipment
guy was sitting there, just you sitting there talking to me.
Forgot his name. Shout out to him. He's always super

(01:28:35):
dope to me. And I remember just like finally taking
off shower and I walked back to the hotel you
know that's connected to the Staples and it was the
Risk Carlton and I just told my wife to meet
me over there and I went in. I went into
the Uh. I went into the room, fell face down
the bed and just cried. I knew it was over.

(01:28:58):
It was over. It's over, bro, it was. It was.
It was such an emotional time because I never got
that feeling that I had pre brawl, and that feeling
of like, man, I love this. I can't wait to
get to the gym, like this is this is my life. Yeah,
I mean y'all know this man. We eat, breathe, sleep,

(01:29:20):
this broh and when and I felt like I was
retiring to my own terms. But it wasn't the terms
that I really wanted. This wasn't And they tried to
get me to come back the next couple of years,
and I just felt like, let me change gears. Man,
I got a son, I got a daughter. I got

(01:29:42):
to give them what I didn't have, right, And in
the last two years of my career, they stayed here
in Dallas and I was playing, so I started se
a little bit reaction towards my and my son and me.
And then my daughter was she was scaling in volleyball.
So it was one of those things, bro where at
some point you got to walk away, and you got
to figure out how to walk away. And in some cases,

(01:30:05):
you know, you don't get an opportunity to, you know,
do it on your terms. And I just say this,
and I was eighteen, you know, I would say incredible years,
Like I learned so much, man, the good, the bad,
and different. Right, what I am today is a replication
a representation of everything that I went through. And see

(01:30:28):
people don't People don't think about the human side of that. Right,
when you battle the demon every day of your life, right,
that just that want to make whatever reason, this thing
that wants to make you feel not worthy of something. Right,
even when you accomplish someone you can sign, you know,
making millions of dollars, you living in great cars, You

(01:30:50):
do whatever you want to do, but you never feel whole.
And that's the thing that I battled my entire career.
Bro get to Portland. Didn't feel whole, right, didn't feel
hold because they wasn't playing me. So I found myself
fighting this things. So yeah, and I and and how

(01:31:11):
you speaking, I feel the same way too. It's a
lot of players that feel the same way you do,
you know what I mean? Like I said, come from
I come from the same situation, single parent home, no father.
Met my father when I was thirty two, you know
what I'm saying. Mother didn't really have education. So dealing
with a lot of trauma, yeah, and not addressing it

(01:31:32):
like you said. You know, and when you walk away
from the game like your kids, you know, you you
a great father. You put an impact on the game.
You know your daughter is the beast and volleyball with
the text is just your son. You know, juniors remain
O Neill junior going to SMU. So the things that
you're doing now, I think like kind of you know

(01:31:53):
what you're in I with working with the players, the
high school players, athlete Like your transitioning was a big
part of that too. So as you're doing a great
job now off the court, you know, man, I would
say this man and look in this camera or this
camera right here. NBA teams, you have a responsibility to

(01:32:14):
these young men. You have no idea, no idea what
players go through. Right, If you want a great product,
you want them to be best representation of your team
and your community. Dig a little bit deeper, take some
time and not make it all about the you know,
the wins and the losses, right because what we are

(01:32:34):
as humans and what we deal with on a day
to day basis will dictate a lot of wins and losses. Right,
So just just do us a favorite, man, Just take
some time and invest a little bit more time, effort
and to you know our players, man, because we all
do go through a lot of things and you have
no idea that those level of things are how that
impacts us in our real lives. So can you explain

(01:32:55):
to our viewers about Dynamic Prep and yes, what motivated
you didn't even build that from the ground up, like
so really so Drive Nation the club is really spearheaded
that the Dynamic Prep to school. And I'm gonna tell
y'all a lot of like when I walked away from
the game, like I wanted to go and just be

(01:33:17):
around kids. It's crazy, like everybody's like, what you know,
what Jao doing? And you know, I had a lot
of TV opportunities and I said, no, no, I'm just
gonna just I'm gonna go just get out of the
way and just go focus on these kids because like
I felt like I had an opportunity like to go
back and give something that may help a kid, may

(01:33:39):
give them the tools and I didn't necessarily have growing
up that was important for me. Right and brother, they again,
whether they you know, suburban America with two parents, middle
class America with one inner city with none of you know,
none of them is right. The dejectives is giving them
a purpose on how they should do this and how
they deal with things. Right, like we we talked about

(01:34:00):
this before we jumped on is like, you know, mental
health is like it's like a real thing. Damn run,
Like this is really like a real thing, bru that
we're dealing with and we don't know how to address
it right. And so these kids are out here, these
amazing opportunities for these kids, but they don't know how
to really like it's not a format form. And then

(01:34:21):
you got these local jokers out here facilitating failure to
these kids. So what I want to do is set
a standard. So I built a sports complex in Dallas.
Obviously I'm not from here, I'm from South Carolina, and
it just want those It was a passion product, a
project for me. I'm talking about to a point, Bruh,
where I believe so much in it. Bro I couldn't

(01:34:44):
even get Alan. How I couldn't get Alan was crazy,
like not being able to like having the balance sheets.
I had a crib here that was eleven million dollars right,
and all I was asking for was six right, and
I was gonna put up the rest of the cash.
And I knew That's when I knew that this is
more God's will than God's plan. You think about my club,

(01:35:05):
just in my club. In the last seven years, we
had Ron Hollins. That's what the young boy from Detroit
had him. He's from Dallas since sixth grade. Uh Kay Cunningham,
Keante George, my boy, Jordan Watsh Drew, Timmy, Helena McNeely.
That's that Connecticut had him since sixth grade. Trey Johnson. Yes,

(01:35:30):
the young boy gonna come out now from Texas. We've had, man,
we've had the impact. Right. We've had one hundred and
seventy plus Division on athletes come out of the program.
And I knew it was God's planning, God's will for
me to do this right again, I didn't I didn't
want to be own no damn gym. I didn't want
to be in the gym coaching and doing those all

(01:35:51):
those other stuff. And I realized that everything that I
was searching for and basketball after the brawl, all the
healing that I needed was coming from these kids, youth.
It was like, people, it's crazy, bro like and you
had you had some cats out here in Dallas. I
was like, yeah, he's just using the kids. How I'm

(01:36:12):
using the kid I spent fourteen million dollars in it.
You using the kids like bro, I ain't take a salary.
This alongside with the NLAH. But listen, no, listen to.
I had did not take a salary in seven years.
I just sold. I just sold the building. Somebody came
in with a check that I just could not say
no to, and I was already couldn't say no to it.

(01:36:34):
But I was already I was already in school mode
because I felt like, Okay, we had this impact with
kids two or three days a week. What if we
get them five days a week for eight months? Right?
You double down on an impact. And I'm a true believer.
I'm a true believer. If you do things for hard
of God, gonna get it back to your hundred holes anyway. Right.
And so you know, Dynamic just you know, jumped in

(01:36:56):
the fray based off some of the challenges that we
are here, some of the kids and the parents talking about.
And we had amazing year this year playing the National
Championship game audience Yo, and then ended up winning the
Max Max Prep National Championship. So but I go back
to this. I never knew why I felt the way

(01:37:21):
I felt and why I couldn't shake it, But it
was all in preparation for what I'm doing now, man,
And I just want to give you flowers, man, because
you was one of the guys who I came in
looking up to and paid away. And what you did
on the court, now what you're doing off the court
with your with your programs, with Drive Nations, with the
kids you You're making a bigger impact now with these kids, man,

(01:37:44):
for real, and they can relate to you. You known
a lot of more kids can relate to us and
you know, than the others. And they relate to you
and feel that man. So ye, so shout out the
Drive Nation man. Yeah, Man, just for sure, I appreciate that. Brother. Yes, sir,
what has been like coaching Jermaine Jr? Bro had life

(01:38:05):
seeing them commit that? Bruh, my kids don't listen. I
better start listening to me. My kids and they don't
listen to me. I gotta get a training sh man,
Like I'm gonna tell you, Bro, like I'm gonna tell you. So.
When you don't have, when you don't have that that

(01:38:25):
that male structure in your life, you try to be
perfect on everything and you try to give them what
you know. But again, it's talking to these kids about
what we know is like talking about beepers and pagers
and CDs and and all of They don't understand none
of that. Right. My son said something to me about
two months ago. He's like, Dad, listen, he said, every

(01:38:50):
time you still on the sideline, I'm in comparison to you.
So every time that I do something, your name comes
with it, he said. I never I'm never able to
be off. He said, I'm tired. So I just want
to build who I am based off the work that
I do. And it was traumatizing to me, nigga, when

(01:39:11):
I tell you, I was traumatizing to me because I
get up every day and I go after every day
for right, I make sure I'm there. Bro Like last year,
a year ago, right that we were, my son was
playing my daughter was playing that in the A C
two A tournament. I'm taking private planes. I'm not sleeping
going back and forth right because I don't. I can't
miss nothing because I believe in that right. Because I

(01:39:33):
didn't have that right. And so when my son said
that to me, it was like, yeah, like that, like
I just need I just need to I just need
just a break. And I was like, oh, so how
did I miss that? I never looked at it. Every
time I stand on the sideline, he's in comparison to
me when he's a complete different player, complete different player.

(01:39:54):
So it's one of the hardest things I was I've
ever done, But it's also one of the most gratifying
things that I've ever done because I watched him just
kind of do that his own terms. Tune the noise out,
tune the haters out, and just focus on his grow
that's big, man. Yeah. I had another question to oppose
access earlier though. What was what was to the number seven?

(01:40:16):
What made you wear number seven? It's a biblical number
man in seventh day. Man, it's full completion, you know that. Yeah,
that's stove And and when we ever see the NBA show,
I mean that's in the NBA the Nike shocks and
shot I want to shot from shot him. I think,

(01:40:37):
damn shots every boy. I don't know these kids kids,
but they're not about to wear them damn things. They
look good, but I don't think. And then if you
and then if you step on clip somebody foot, you're
gonna roll hazard us. Yeah, man, that's great, but we
read you'll go reber fad. You know, I want to

(01:40:59):
ask you, bro, it's an ilause you know, I know
you know you in the visuals too, and yeah, you
know you deal with a lot of players. What you
think about the inn L N I L man. I
think it's an amazing opportunity for young men and women. Man,
I think here's the problem. Everybody's now starting to step
over dollars to get the pennies. Right, if your goal

(01:41:19):
is to be a pro, right, I'm not choosing a
school that just because they're paying me more money. I'm
not choosing the school because of that. I'm choosing the
school it's gonna put me in the best position to
go yo, maximize my opportunity. And you're seeing a lot
of that, right, kids going off to schools that you know,
don't even they don't even know who the roster is, right.
I need to know who's on the roster. I need

(01:41:40):
to know the coaching philosophy. And you're starting to see
that a lot, man. And I think I do think
that players should be rewarded, but I think it's taken
away also too hardship because you're gonna face it at
some point if you give the lead for show, gonna
face it right, right, and so you know, you're not
seeing nobody wants to go through hardships, so they're gonna
pick their ball up and go some where else. So

(01:42:01):
I think that's it's it's it's it's a gifting, the
curve curse when it comes to in n Il. You
think they're ever putting centers in it too, where it's Okay,
we're giving you this much, but we expect this much. Nah.
But I do believe that they should put an age
limit in this damn thing, right. It can't be twenty
six in college seven years? Agree, Yeah, you can't. We

(01:42:23):
can't do that, Bro, Jayo May you got to tell
us about that fifty five piece man. You know what
I'm saying, your career, Man, you gotta gonna give us
what we're going What you ate that day? What was
the pre game warm up that day? Man? Goddamn man?
Fifty five No, it was a man, It was in
thirty six minutes too, No threes, see what I mean? Yeah,

(01:42:46):
but I mean that, you know, you know y'all know
how it is, bro. You know y'all get going around.
It's like, man, I get this nigga off the court.
He can't guard me. Yeah, and that's the thought process, right,
you trying And then that was in the mold too,
where we was trying to figure out where we set
as a team and I was trying to continue trying
to prove myself as a player. Yeah, yeah, and whit

(01:43:10):
we you eighteen years in the league, you know, tell us,
tell us when you had the most problem or if
you had any problems that made it just man, listen, bro,
And you know I'm a realist too, Bro. I thought
I thought the power forward position on a night to
night basis was problematic as you got this nigga mac

(01:43:34):
both right, a lefty, right, one of the best body
positioned players that you can like, He's gonna find a
way to maneuver his body. You're gonna get that rebound,
you know. Obviously lefties are always already tough to guard. Right,
So he presented that problem. Right. Then he had a
different number motor and he was a nigga too, right,

(01:43:55):
and so that combination is always tough to deal with, right.
But in ever, we had this She's we had the SRTs,
we had Tims, we had the hell Kenyan Martin was
Elton Brand, he had uc Dice, we had I mean
just it was just a lot. I think the respective
of like because I played in multiple era so I

(01:44:19):
remember like playing against the King and it was like
Houston the key a lodge crazy. He was the most
unguardable player that you know you could go up against.
But I thought when Dirk lost and came back, he
was a different album. See Dirk at seven foot he stops,

(01:44:39):
he can he can raise up on either you're still
going and he already up here right, And so he was.
He was a tough cover from that perspective, obviously missed
the fundamental and Tim Duncan was a it was a
tough color because he gave you in so many ways.
But I will honestly say man Like always asked that

(01:45:00):
question all the time. I said, brou and in my era,
especially the power forward position clevery night every night, tell
them all the time, cracking bro every night and like
you and and it's the time when you you at
home and you know you know the game coming up,
they're playing maybe the night before, so they may feel
the back to back you and looking what are you

(01:45:21):
doing right? So I would definitely say man Like really
all the power for tough covers, Bro, especially at Wild
Wild West you went to and just man as you
went to a West Coast teams every night and west
see what see well was problematic? Bro? Another thing throw

(01:45:42):
out there? Bro. I just I feel like, you know
you want best ever do it? And I feel like,
especially coming through that Indiana organization, I feel like the
name is supposed to be hanging up in the rafters.
O you. It's well deserved, that I think, and when
it needed to happen, and when it do, I need
to be there. I mean, out them up. We're gonna

(01:46:02):
be there because man, it's very well deserved. It's like
pulling off a scab boy like it's that's a sit down.
We got to holler about that, listen, Uh, I will
tell you. I will say this though, to every fan
uh that support the Pacers, I gave everything I can give, right,

(01:46:28):
trust that like the love and passion I have for
that organization, that city is unmatched anything outside of my
kids and my wife and my family. It's unmatched. And
whatever you think happened or it didn't happen, just know
that my appreciation for that city, for our owners who

(01:46:51):
who gave me a different quality of life. Right, you
know you get somebody, you know, one hundred plus million dollars.
You feel like it's responsibility that comes with that. Hell yeah,
and so make no mistake, I never took that for granted. Never,
and that again go back. That's why I left because

(01:47:14):
I no longer could be at the level that they
expected me to be at. And so rather they ever,
you know, decide to retire number not. I am at peace.
I wasn't for a while, but I'm at peace now
because time, time heals everything, that time tells everything. At

(01:47:37):
the point they got to they got to figure out
how they valued me as a player when I did
not only on the corporal, when I did off the
court right winning the championship. It's hard, right, you can't.
I hate when I hate to hear people say that,
like anyone the championship se does that minimize the player's career. Man, shit,
you gotta be lucky, you gotta you healthy, and you

(01:48:01):
got to be together, and you got to have a squad.
So a lot of it's a lot of things that
go into that, Like the team got to put put
together the right pieces, right, It's just so much has
to happen. But I hate hearing fans said, well, you
want to so funck? What don't mean they get show
up to the game every day in preparation to try
to win it. And I felt like we did do

(01:48:22):
that and we appreciated. Man. It was a pleasure man,
you know, coming on with this man, you know, one
of the guys that I always looked up to wearing
the head man after you know, even seeing my game
at the show, man, just a pleasure. Man, you're coming
on out the mother you know, ain't nothing beloved me
from my comrade you already know. Man, appreciate you. I

(01:48:42):
appreciate y'all. Man, you know, like I told y'all and
I walked in, man like we need we need more
brothers like y'all. You know, it's it's it's a different
side of this business that needs to be talked about.
People get on TV and they talked about the cut stuff,
right y'all got y'all got to it right with y'all.
What the impact that y'all have in our league, man
is immense. Br That's why when I saw that y'all

(01:49:03):
got your jersey retired, Man, that's dope, because they respect
the work that y'all put in. Right now, you're putting
a lot of work. People can't. How do you how
do you take a back You make a basketball organization
a reflection of the city. It's crazy like that. That
doesn't happen a lot. Bro. You know what I'm saying.

(01:49:25):
You're an influence on it, right and and how they
got behind y'all. Man, it's it's just dope. Man. I
appreciate you guys, you know, getting me on. Man, Like,
you know, one thing I'm gonna do now that my
son is out, I'm about to start moving and shaking that.
One of the biggest things for me was making sure
I finished the job with my son in school. Now
he in college. Now he gotta he gotta get to it.

(01:49:47):
But I love to come back on for sure, get
another chance to bring you on something that I'm doing.
I might do something to call away and you know, nephew,
to check you out for you now coming to some
mission games. Now you turn up for sure. Shout out
to you and your daughter to man, she gets busy. Man, Yes, sir,

(01:50:11):
and your daughter too. She's playing in the professional league too.
She was a national champion and the Texas they won. Yeah,
and she and they won the first ever Uh yeah
yeah so but these kids, man like they reflection of us.
All right, those kids will be put into them, bro,
make no mistakes. So she patched yourself on the back.

(01:50:34):
On the back, man, stay on the ass, show out
the mug, would man,

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Jermaine O'Neal | Truth behind the Malice in the Palace, Losing love for the game & jail as a teen 🤯

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jermaine O'Neal | Truth behind the Malice in the Palace, Losing love for the game & jail as a teen 🤯