Episode 47: The Former Inmate Who Became the Face of Criminal Justice Reform

The journey of Weldon Angelos from up-and-coming music producer to a face of criminal justice reform wasn’t pretty. For this podcast, Gianno has a can’t-miss conversation with Weldon about the cruel and tortuous path that he endured, including a 55-year prison sentence, which finally ended with a full pardon from President Trump last year. They also discuss cannabis policy in-depth and all things criminal justice reform.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Up next out Loud what Gianno called well part of
the guich. The journey of Weldon Angelo's from an up
and coming music producer to a new face of criminal
justice reform wasn't pretty. In fact, it was cruel, torturous,
and included a fifty five year prison sentence. It also

(00:20):
included a full pardon from the one President Donald J. Trump.
Today we hear Weldon's story. This is Outlined with Gianno Caldwell.
Welcome back to Outline with Gianno Caldwell. I'm Gianno Caldwell

(00:44):
and I have a really interesting and fascinating show this week.
My guests is someone with a remarkable life story that
would make for a Hollywood script. His name is Weldon Angelos.
I'll save most of the details for our conversation, but
to give you a basic review. In the early two thousands,
Angelo's was a young and promising hip hop producer. He

(01:06):
had a budding new record label, Extravagant Records, and was
on his way to the top. But then Angelo sold
a few hundred dollars worth of cannabis also known as
marijuana weed to a police informant over multiple transactions, and
everything went downhill. Angelos had no prior criminal record, but

(01:27):
because the informant said Angelos had a firearms strap to
his ankle, he was sentenced to fifty five years in prison.
Federal law made fifty five years the minimum sentence allowed,
even though this was the first time marijuana offense. Eventually,
after well over a decade in prison, Angelo's was released

(01:48):
in twenty things to a major bipartisan effort, and then
last year President Trump fully pardoned him. Today, Angelos is
the new face of criminal justice reform, especially cannabis related issues.
I'll ask him about what he went through, what he's
doing now, and his work where President Trump on criminal
justice reform. Let's go. Well, then, I'm really excited to

(02:11):
have you on out loud what Giano called. Well, we've
been talking about cannabis, uh, in terms of on television,
radio media. The country has been talking about it for
quite a while, and your story, I think is one
which is one of the most fascinating I've heard. I
learned about it many many years ago, probably about four
years ago, when you were released from jail, when Senator

(02:33):
Mike Lee of Utah, actually I believe he wrote an
op add on it. So I wanna just start off
the conversation before we dig into cannabis the criminal justice
reform aspect of it. I wanted to have you take
my listeners through your life story and what happened to you.
Tell us about what life was like before you were

(02:54):
arrested and ultimately sentenced to prison in two thousand and four. Yeah,
so um for that, I would say. Back going back
to around nineties ninety six, I started working on a
career in the music industry. UM. I had, um, somehow
made my way into the hip hop world. UM with
a lot of the folks silver at Death Row Records,

(03:16):
including Snoop Dogg's group The Dog Pound and two pops
group Outlaws, And a few years after that, I ended
up founding my own record label, and Snoop Dogg, you know,
gave me an opportunity to produce some music with him.
Ended up at his house making some records and producing
a whole album with Snoop, And you know, my career

(03:36):
just sort of took off from there, and I started
working with some of the biggest names in the industry,
and I sort of put myself in the crosshairs of
the of the federal government. Um. You know, back in
my hometown of Salt Lake City, Utah, where I was
bringing you know, Snoop and mac dray and all the
people I was working with, you know, to do shows
and and just kind of opened up the scene there,

(03:58):
and uh, you know, it was something that was kind
of new, you know, to that to that town at
the time, and so the authorities thought there must be
something going on here, you know, outside of music, and
so they sent a confidential informant to come try to
you know, see what was going on. And you know,
really all it was was making records and smoking cannabis, UM,

(04:19):
And so the informants decided to buy some of the
cannabis and it was just like a few hundred dollars
worth on three occasions, was nothing, no profit made. It
was just like here you go, UM. And the federal
government attempted to you know, get guns and coke and meth,
and you know that wasn't what was happening. You know,
we were just making music and and you know, smoking

(04:42):
cannabis and UM. When they realized that they weren't going
to get anything else, they indicted me Um on a
few counts, hoping that that would lead to enough pressure
to bring down people in hip hop. And when it
didn't and we laughed at them for what they were
trying to do, they secured superseding indictments where they ended

(05:03):
up turning these three cannabis charges, you know, worth nine
dollars total into a twenty count federal indictment where I'm
facing a hundred years of mandatory imprisonment. Um because of
you know, how how the case you know, initially started. Um,
you know, there was really no trust for me and

(05:24):
my attorneys and on their end, and so you know,
it forced a trial and I you know, once some
counts but lost most of them, ended up with the
fifty five year sentence. The sentence was so extreme even
the sentencing judge, who was a very conservative George W.
Bush appointee, UM, that caused him to balk at the
sentence and um, you know, question the legitimacy of the

(05:48):
system and of the prosecutor's charging decisions. And so he
actually called on the president that appointed him to pardon me.
As he was handing down the sentence. He said, you know,
my hands are tied. I can't do anything, but this
sentence is cruel, unjustin irrational, and so I call him
the president to you know, commute the sentence. UM. And

(06:09):
then a few years later he stepped down, he stepped
down from office, became my chief advocate, and other people joined,
other people joined his chorus. You know, we had a
Janet Reno, who was the attorney general for Bill Clinton.
We had a hundred and something you know, former federal judges,
former federal prosecutors, um, and then a former prosecutor in

(06:31):
that office who didn't you know, wasn't assigned to my case.
His name was Mike Lee. He was elected to the
Senate in two thousand ten, and he remembered what my
judge said. I mean, the whole legal community across the
country knew my judge and his his sixty seven page opinion.
And so you know, this unlikely Allies coalition to get
me out was sort of you know born and and

(06:54):
it and it consisted of you know, friends from the
music industry, you know, people like Snoop Dogg and and
Bonnie Rayit and Mike Gepps and Alicia Keys, with these
political figures like Mike Lee and Corey Booker Um and
Rand Paul and even the Koch brothers. You know, eventually,
you know got behind you know, the effort to get
me out and and it was more to do with

(07:15):
not myself being you know, an extraordinary person that was
my judge, um that really you know, made all of
these individuals rally around my um my cause to get
me out of jail. Now, you know, I had never
ever ever in my life, and I'm sure most people
can attest you don't rarely, if ever, I mean, this

(07:37):
has thee one situation I would say, but you rarely
if ever see a judge say that, hey, I don't
want to give you this sentence, but his mandatory minimum.
That's what we have to do. But then to go
from there to then be an advocate for you as
a Republican even more so especially you know, Republicans are
tough on crime. Uh. To to say that this was

(07:58):
unreasonable and then have other Republicans as well as Democrats
come together to say that it was unreasonable treatment for
the crime. Uh. Now, we gotta keep in mind, deek
U states all across the country of decriminalized a small
amount of marijuana. Twenty seven states, including the District of Columbia.
Poland has showed that almost seventy of Americans, if not more,

(08:22):
at this point believe in legalization of marijuana. But I
gotta ask you this question, because during this time you
were in your music career, You're dealing with people like
Snoop Dogg, who's obviously legendary, and you never really see
him without marijuana smoking anyway. I mean, that's what has
been for years. But why were you selling marijuana to
begin with? Yeah? So, so as I said, it wasn't like,

(08:45):
you know, we were out there, Hey, who wants some weed?
This guy came and asked to buy some of our weed.
It wasn't like, you know, it was three hundred dollars worth.
I mean, I just I just signed a multimillion dollar
record deal, So three hundred dollars worth the cannabis and
makes fifty bucks or something is not a profitable I
didn't do it for profits. So this informant was a

(09:06):
guy that you know, used to be from my hood
when when I was younger. You know, he was from
our gang. And and and so he got out of prison,
you know he did he did he did a nickel,
went to prison, did five, got out, he caught another case.
And he had just had a kid, or at least
you know, he was going to have a kid, and
so he didn't want to go back. He was like,
I'm done with this ship, I'm done with this lifestyle.
And at this point, you know, I was in the music,

(09:27):
I was out of the street life and all that.
You know, I was done with that. He got out
and made it seem like he was too. So he
was like, I just need to make some money too,
you know, I got I got, I got a kid,
and I just need to you know, hustle. And so
I'm like, huh, you go take some you know, go
do what you gotta do. And so, um, you know,
that's really how it started. And um, you know, all
over that little bit of money. And you know he

(09:48):
was asking, he was you know, they were trying to
come up with enough um, you know, charges to pressure
me and hopes that it would lead to the arrest
of a famous rap artist. And know, the Feds have
been wanting to get Snoop Snooped for a long time,
anyone they really wanted, anyone. They you know, they've never
seen that here. And and another reason, you know, that's
just you know, one of the motives. The other motive was,

(10:10):
you know, what we found out later was that some
of these prosecutors and agents looked at me like I
was bringing Ebola, you know, into Utah, and they wanted
to keep it out and so um and and you
know a lot of these prosecutors and agents they're not
from like Salt Lake City itself. Salway City is very diverse.
So a lot of people, you know, they just say, Utah, Oh,

(10:31):
it's all Mormons. Well, when you go to the city,
it's very diverse, it's very liberal. But when you leave
the city and in the county, it gets very conservative
and very Mormon. And so that you know, that's where
you know, most of these prosecutors and agents are from.
They didn't want that culture being brought to this city. Um.
And so you know that there was two prompted. You know,

(10:51):
it was very racially motivated case. Um. And so in addition,
if they felt like they could you know, arrest somebody
famous and gets headlines and you know, get some promotions,
you know, all the better. And I just want to
note that the lead prosecutor in this case got an
award from the Attorney General under the George Bush administration.

(11:13):
He got an award with my name on it for
the successful prosecution of Well and Angelo and so um,
you know, the case was, it was a big case.
And then the lead gaining an officer who was a
state agent named Jason Magron. He got promoted to be
the chief of police for a city called mid Bellum,
which is just you know, outside of Salt Lake. And

(11:34):
so you know that this is the whole motivation for
prosecute me had nothing to do with, oh, we we
really want to take this guy down for this little
bit of weed. You know, there was other motivations that play, um,
that have nothing to do with justice, right, So they
wanted to get you so they can really get you
to flip on Snoop or somebody else like that, to

(11:54):
to to really have a big win. As we know
normally happens when prosecut you just get involved at any level,
whether they be federal prosecutor state or local, local county,
whatever the deal may be. So let me ask you
this question. Do you believe that you should have went
to jail at all for this or you just feel
that the sentence was obviously way too harsh. Well, I'll

(12:18):
frame it this way, and this is something my judge
actually looked into and he was trying to figure out,
you know what he could do besides sentenced me, and
so he was getting information from various sources. He asked
the jury what an appropriate sentence would be. He reached
out to the state system to figure out what would
what would be the no time I would serve in
the state if I were prosecuting the state, because what

(12:39):
happened really is a state charge. It wasn't federal. There's
nothing uniquely federal about these charges. It was just the
way they charged it because under the state law, I
couldn't be prosecuted to to much extent. And so he
found out that I could have received a misdemeanor and
probation um and and that have had I went to
jail in the state system, that probably would have been

(12:59):
you know, sit months or less. And this is back
in two thousand and you know too when my case happened.
I got charged in two thousand two, So in two
thousand two, back then I probably could have you know,
and I probably wouldn't have even seen jail or a
felony because I met it was my first adult offense,
and so you know, that was telling. And even my
prosecutor's boss, um, who was the head u S attorney,

(13:21):
he said you know, he felt that under the state system,
I probably would have got probation. Um, realistically, Um, you know,
even though the max you know, would have been you know,
zero to five years, but under the state guidelines it
would have been zero months. And so, you know, should
I have went to prison, well under the state law,
according to state law, no, um. And so I don't
think no prison was warranted. I mean, it's it's some weed,

(13:44):
you know. Um. And I had a career, you know,
had some young kids. Um, you know, I had just
made it out of poverty myself with a you know,
unique opportunity to do something that you know, only few
in this world gonna do. And it was taken away
over some bullshit, in my opinion. And the judge, of course,
who presided over your case, called the sentence unjust, cruel

(14:05):
and irrational and wanted you to receive less time. But
according to him, there was nothing that he can do. Well, um,
so you know, all he could do, he felt like
he could do is go down kicking and screaming, and
you know that's what he did. And he felt like,
you know, a lot of people didn't like that. A
judge gets emotionally attached to a case, and so you

(14:25):
know a lot of people asked him, like why did
you get so involved in the case, and he was like, well,
somebody had to speak up for Mr Angelos, you know,
because obviously he couldn't do it himself, and so it
had to be him. And so, you know, when I
was in the courtroom, you know, I knew that there
was an effort to find the sentence unconstitutional, and so
I knew my judge spent a lot of time, you know,
researching this, and he we briefed it, you know, over

(14:47):
and over and over, trying to figure out the unconstitutional
for him to impose such a lengthy sentence on such
low level conduct. And unfortunately, our Supreme Court precedent is
lacking under the Eighth Amendment, and so you know, he
could not find a way out. And you know, I
kind of figured I was going to get you know,
the minimum mandatory, which was fifty five years and one
day UM, possibly more um, even though he was trying

(15:11):
to impose a sentence around ten years UM, which was
still the max under the guidelines, because the prosecutors could
have charged me under the sentencing guidelines rather than the
mandatory minimums, where I would have received you know, anywhere
from six and a half to you know, maximum of
ten years, which likely would have been probably around like
seven or eight if they would have charged me into

(15:31):
the guidelines. Um, but they wanted to charge him the
mandatory minimums, you know, to try to you know, get
me to flip or just to put maxi amount of
pressure on me to accept a very unjust plea offer.
And so you know, when I was in the courtroom,
and you know, I didn't know what the judge was
gonna do. My attorney didn't know. He had never encountered
a case like this before, so we none of us
knew what was going to happen. And you know, when

(15:51):
it came time, you know, I knew what was happening.
When he said, after careful deliberation, I reluctantly conclude, I
knew it was over with. He said, I reluctantly conclude
that I have no choice but to impose a fifty
five years sentence, you know, and then he imposed one
day for the additional charges, and so, um, you know
it was over with. And you know that's when you know,

(16:12):
I knew the fight to get me out began. You know,
we were we had multiple attempts to appeal the case,
you know, to no avail. You know, our court system,
our appellate system is a joke. Um, you know, you
rarely succeed. They you know, stacked the deck against you.
And so you know, we really had no other option
but to hope, uh, you know, a progressive president would

(16:34):
you know, get elected, and um, you know, we could
seek a commutation. Before we move on, you need to
take a break. Let me ask you this question. What
was it like in that moment when you heard from
the judge and he handed you down a fifty five

(16:56):
year sentence for something that's clearly not worth while. Five
years and I'm even listening to you say, well, if
it was under a sentence and guidelines, then maybe it
would have been sixty teen years. This this wasn't drug
kingpin level crime. It was a crime so that we
would call it what it is. But it wasn't something

(17:16):
like you're selling crack and you're getting all these people addicted.
This was less than a thousand dollars. And honestly speaking, nowadays,
you I've seen people with the cannabis as I've been
researching and talking about it, that doesn't really get you
much these days if you spent a few hundred dollars
on cannabis. So it's it's kind of interesting to hear

(17:37):
your story. What was it like in that moment when
you heard fifty five years? Well, like I said, you know,
I was expecting something around them because the three there's
three charges out of those sixteen, one of them was
five years, the other two or twenty five and they
must be served consecutively. So I knew there was at
least a fifty five year mandatory minimum just on those
three council loan. And it was because the way the

(17:59):
agents and prosecutors stacked my sentence. Now, for instance, if
they really thought I was this dangerous person that they
made me out to be before the judge and trial
and sentencing, they really made me out to be this
you know, dangerous you know, gun slinging, you know kingpin
with three worth the Canadas. You know, it was really ridiculous.
They looked really stupid, and they tried to compare my

(18:21):
case to be as being worse than second degree murder,
worse than child rate, worse than terrorism, um, and you
know it was laughable, um and so um, yeah, it
was just real crazy man and um, you know, the judge,
he had no choice. And so when I heard the
fifty five years sentence, you know, it just confirmed what
I already you know, thought was gonna happen, and that

(18:42):
you know, the fight to get me out would have
to happen on appeal, you know. And and you know,
but when I heard him call on the president, I
didn't know. I knew he thought the sentence was unjust.
He said, you know, in the very beginning, like eight
months before the sentence thing, he said, the sentence appears
to be cruel on justin r rational um, and he
trying to find a way out. So but when he
sentenced me and he said that, you know, I call

(19:04):
on the president to commute the sentence to something more
you know, more reasonable and more just. You know, that
gave me some hope. Um. You know, I didn't. I
didn't have a lot of confidence in Bush, um, you know,
because you know Bush was not uh somebody who was
courageous and and and super immerciful um. And neither was
his staff. Um. So I really didn't think there was

(19:26):
much of a chance there. My hope was, you know,
in the next administration, because when I got sentenced. You know,
Bush just one re election and so we were stuck
with him for another four years. UM. And so you know,
my hope was in the appill at court. UM. But
while we were you know, working on a hill in
this UM, we were building support from as many people
as possible, and it was growing every day. You know,

(19:48):
we had a hundred and sixty three you know, former
d J officials, former federal judges, UM. And then you know,
we we just kept building and building support and and
just trying to get as many people behind. You know,
my case is possible to get me out now and
that and that's really interesting to hear this, this major
bipartisan effort. And I want to get into that in

(20:10):
a moment, but I want to ask you, so, when
you went to jail, what was the prison experience like,
especially considering what you went in there for. You're in
there with hardened criminals, murderers. You're in there with real
drug kingpins, people who are probably made millions or hundreds
of thousands of dollars selling drugs, and murderers and all
this other stuff. What was that experience like for you?

(20:30):
Were you afraid for your life or what was it? Now?
I wasn't afraid for my life, but I was because
you know this, I was young and I was hard
headed and um. You know, but when I when I
got to prison, I was expecting to go to like
a camp or like a low security prison. UM. When
when the bus pulled up to lom Poke, Um, there's
three prisons there. There's a camp which is basically you're

(20:52):
not you don't even have a gate to hold you in.
You don't have like a fense. You know, you can
wander around. You know, it's pretty you know, it's pretty
low key, like you can, you know, pretty much do
what you want. Um. And then they have a low
security that is, you know, has offense, but you know
it's really lacks. Then you got the USP, which is
a maximum security where they send people with life and

(21:12):
violent you know offensive. And when the bus stopped at
the camp, you know, I heard the drivers say I
got one person for the camp, the rest are going
to the USP, and I'm like, that's gotta be me.
You know, I'm not. It's a marijuana charge. You know,
I've been never been to prison. You know, had a
juvenile gun charge but it was expunged. So under the system,
I was treated as the first defenders. So you know,
I'm getting up, like that's gotta be me. And then

(21:34):
I look to the side of me and I see
this square. You know, little young white kid that was
talking about he was in there for, you know, like
some kind of computer case that he got one year.
And when I looked at him, like, shit, I'm dead, dude,
that's here, that's his spot. He's getting out here, not me.
I got too much time, you know, because usually you
gotta have under ten years to go to the camp.

(21:55):
And you know, because I had a fifty five years sentence,
I was considered a public safety risk. And with the
camp you can walk off and leave if you want,
you know, you just escape, you just walk home, you know. Um,
and then they'll put out a warrant for you. So
it's not really a big deal because the campers are
considered minimal risk. Um. And so you know, when I
walked in the USP, it looked like everything you see

(22:17):
in the movies. Um, it was a very dangerous prison. Um.
It was. It was crazy. And I was like, ship
all this for you know, nine hundred dollars worth the weed,
Like it was just I can't believe this um, and
I just have to do my best to adjust to it,
you know, and and you know, put put my bury
myself in law books so I could figure out, you know,
how I got here and how I'm gonna get myself out.

(22:37):
And just the point of clarification, because I heard you
mentioned that it was three hundred dollars worth a weed,
and I heard you mentioned it was nine hundred? Was
it three hundred times? You know, multiple times you gave
him the three times? Okay, that's what it was. He
got three worth on three occasions. Okay, got you? Okay,
now I hear that, all right. So you ended up

(22:58):
being released from prison due to a remarkable bipartisan effort.
Can you walk us through what that looked like? Because
you were in there for quite a while before you
were ever released. So what was that that time like?
In the in between? So you know, I spent most
of my time thinking I'm getting out that year. Um,
you know, we had to prepare for him at Peal
when I first went to prison. You know, I think

(23:20):
I was in there for a year before our appeal.
You know, I was ready for decision and we thought
we were winning. We had oral arguments, the appellate court
was scolding the prosecutor, you know, telling him, you know,
he's ridiculous for thinking the sentences just And more importantly,
there was an illegal search and seizure where they used
illegally seized evidence to convict me at trial. And that's

(23:42):
with my best hope for coming home, because yeah, so
they they entered one of my homes without a search
warrant and they took all this evidence that made me
look like I was a gang member. And that's really
what they wanted the jury to see me as like
this violent gang member. And they used a lot of
hip hop stuff they and actually wrapped lyrics at my trial.
The prosecutor rapped lyrics in his closing argument, and he

(24:06):
began his clothing argument rapping lyrics from a mac Dre
song that I produced, and you know, suggesting to the
jury that that's what this case is all about. And so,
you know, they put up pictures of like the LBC
East Side like Snoop clothing and said this is gang attire. Um,
you know, the LBC stuff East Siders. You know, all

(24:27):
this stuff was um, you know, all hip hop gear,
you know, And they put up pictures of like tupac
and a vest and get the cent in the vest
and was just like, you know, this man is dangerous.
They would put those pictures up next to you know,
other you know, like firearms and stuff like that to
make the jury, you know, fear fear me. And they
did a good job because the first day at trial,

(24:49):
one of the jurors expressed safety concerns to the judge
and that's when I knew I was going to be
hit at trial. Um. And so you know they you know,
it was it was just a you know, it was
a terrible, terrible trial. The government just went out of
their way just to you know, win the case. They
wanted to win at all cost um and so um.
So yeah, so you know, back to back to the

(25:11):
prison setting. You know, I'm sitting there and I got
this fifty five year sentence. I'm in a maximum security penitentiary. Um,
and there's people around me that are killers. You know,
people are getting stabbed. It's just a crazy prisons anything
like you see in the movies. And you know I
had to just you know, really bury myself in the books.
We had, you know, my first appeal where the Court
of Appeals appeared as though they were going to throw

(25:33):
out my conviction and give me a new trial. And
when it came time for decision, you know, they flipped
the script completely and actually took shots at my judge.
So they really looked at this as like, we don't
want judges doing what. No, but no, the no, the
higher court, the higher court who we we appealed to
the higher Court to try to get my trial overturned

(25:55):
so I can get a new trial. Because if I
got a new trial, there's no way they can convict me,
because now we know all the flaws in their case
that they used to convict me on BS charges and
so there was these enhancements that they made up at
the last minute, and that's really what triggered the the
long sentence. And so you know, we basically knew, you know,
how flawed their case was. You know, their witnesses were lying,

(26:18):
the agents were lying, the prosecutors were hiding evidence. We
found the evidence, and so a new trial there's no
way they could win. I would go home after the
trial be free. And so, um, you know, they did
everything they could to paint me as this bad guy
at the appellate court. Lets me go that you know,
the streets are going to be unsafe now. Like it
was just really a crazy, crazy kangaroo court. And so,

(26:41):
you know, the judges appeared in the beginning they were
gonna throw out my conviction. When it came time for decision,
they reverse course, and they took shots at my judge
in the entire opinion, basically stating that he, um, he
what he liked, he didn't take the case serious enough.
He you know, he severely undermined the seriousness of my offense. Um,

(27:01):
and just completely flipped the script from what they were
talking about at the oral arguments and said that you know,
they basically wanted to discipline my judge and tell them,
you know, like, don't do this. This is not how
we get down his judges, and he he wouldn't listen
to them. He kept speaking out testified before congress um
and and other judges followed his uh, his suit. Other judges,

(27:23):
you know, uh did what he did and started reaching
out to the jury and started looking at these sentences
and you know, to wondering if they're even just or not,
and find trying to find ways around them. And so
so yeah, so I end up losing the first appeal
and then we took it to the Supreme Court, which
was denied in two thousand seven. And then you know
that really the campaign for Clement became meaning meaning they

(27:44):
didn't take the case up. That's what you're saying when
you said it was then they almost did. Because in
order to go to the Supreme Court, you gotta have
four votes of the nine Supreme Court justices. Four justices
have to vote in favor of it. They three. They
twice delayed my case had a vote I think three times.
The first two times they couldn't come to a decision,

(28:05):
which is crazy because the Supreme Court only takes about
eight cases out of like literally tens of thousands every year,
and so there was you know, uh, some justices there
that were obviously interested in my case, and so they
kept delaying it, um, you know, delaying a decision, and
finally they on the third vote, they didn't get four
justices to vote in my favor and they didn't hear it.

(28:26):
And so, um, you know, now now our focus needs
to be clemency with the president. And you know, my
case was really framed for clemency because my judge's opinion, um,
you know, really framed this um for for a clemency case.
And so you know, we were just really waiting for
Bush to get out of office, and you know, we
made a run with him at the last you know,

(28:47):
his last few months, which wasn't successful. UM. And then UM,
you know, when Obama was elected, you know, I thought,
for sure, this is it, it's over with UM. But
he didn't do anything for his first four years, first
six years actually, and so you know I had to
sit in there for all those years waiting for Obama
to to take some action for his administration. And it

(29:07):
was really frustrating that, you know, such a progressive administration
did nothing for the first fourth you know, five six years. UM.
And then in two thousand and UM, I think it
was two thousand and late two thousand thirteen, the very
end of two thousand thirteen, I think it was December,
he commuted eight sentences and launched a clemency program. That's
when you know, it really heated up for us, and

(29:29):
we had a you know, a letter that went to
him that was signed by you know, hundreds of people
from you know, the entertainment industry, you know, political figures.
And then my case became the poster child for a
criminal Justice Reform bill that ran Paul or not Rand
Paul Rand Paul. You know, he brought up my case
before the Senate, but it was a bill that Mike

(29:49):
Lee and Corey Booker were pushing. And and so five yeah,
five senators, five U S. Senators were talking about my
case during these Senate hearings. Um and even my prosecutor's boss,
who who he left the US A Treaties Office, he
was the head prosecutor there. He actually testified before Mike
Lee and said that my sentence was wrong and unjust.

(30:11):
And so now I had the support of not only
five senators, I have the support of my prosecutor's boss
and my judge and you know, all these former you know, officials,
and so you know, that's really when the campaign to
get me out really heated up. Now It's interesting because
I've been hearing how you you talked, you know about
something like folks that are really tough on crime. Republicans
have always been really tough on crime, but really Republicans

(30:36):
were a saving grace for you, if if I'm hearing
it correctly, you've had bipartisan support with the former members
of the d o J. And I'm a conservative too,
So of course I'm gonna mention this kind of thing, right, So,
he've had bipartisan members of the d o J who
were helpful. Senator Mike Lee, as I understand it, and
you correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand that

(30:57):
he was the person who put um your part and
before Barack Obama in the White House, um for clemency, pardon, whatever.
So so the Republicans have been helpful in his fighting
in this journey for criminal criminal justice reform, especially for
for you and others like you. Absolutely. So, you know,

(31:18):
my judge was, you know, a Federalist Society judge, and
so he was one of the super conservative. He was
so conservative that he fought for the to the for
the Supreme Court to overturn miranda rights. He fought to
get rid of the exclusionary rule that says if if
agents violate your Fourth Amendment rights, that they can still

(31:39):
use the evidence evidence against you. So if agents come
in your house with no warrant and just start looking
and find drugs, my judge thought they could still use
it against you. It didn't matter. And that's how conservative
he was, and that's what made some conservatives listen to
him and like, maybe we got this wrong. Maybe we are.
And he made a real strong conservative case for criminal
justice reform, and so a lot of people like Chuck

(32:01):
Grass Lee and others, and Mike Lee especially. This is
why Mike Lee got in criminal justice reform because of
my judge and so, you know, and and being prosecuted
in such a conservative state. You know, the only people
that could help me was Mike Lee and Oorn Hatch,
and Oorn Hatch waited until after all these other people
came out to help me before he opened his mouth.
And so, um, really, Mike Lee, I credit him for

(32:24):
for why I'm free right now and why I was
subsequently parted by President Trump. Um. And so you know,
I gotta give a lot of credit to Mike Lee
and the conservatives and you know, the Koch brothers obviously
they joined Mike Lee's call um to you know, get
me out of jail. And so you know, it was
and there was other you know, it was bipartisan because
he had Corey Booker and and some entertainers. But you know,

(32:45):
Mike Lee, I think is really what got me over
the finish line, because Mike Lee made me the poster
child for Reform and argued that I never should have
gotten the sentence because yeah, there was a there was
an incorrect interpretation under the law. Uh that that never
should have you know, happened in my case because the
Supreme Court incorrectly interpreted the statue. And so the First

(33:07):
Step at clarified that now prosecutors cannot seek and and
and and get a fifty five year sentence for someone
like myself. Ever, again, it's over with. And so you know,
when I got out, you know, in in in two
thousand sixteen, you know, we got a couple of people
out under Obama's administration. When Trump was elected, we were like, okay, look,
you know, it's gonna be four years before we get
anything done. And surprisingly we were invited to the White

(33:29):
House UM for the prison reform summits, and so, you know,
I developed a relationship with the Trump administration, UM with
my friends Ron Smith, who was actually a part of
the Coke network before that UM and then ultimately Vonka
and so you know, me and Drew on worked on
started working on clemency. And so after we passed the

(33:50):
First Step Act, you know, we shifted our attention to clemency,
and you know, I started working with Jared's office and
Ivanka Trump, and you know, we were able to get
twelve people out of prison who were serving life for marijuana. UM.
And so on Trump's last day, he commuted you know
that what we we we submitted this letter with this list, UM,
and I hand delivered it. You know, I took I
went to the White House many times, and you know,

(34:11):
I handle evered this list and we had a letter
that was signed by governors and prosecutors and NBA stars
and you know, I had we had a list of
individuals that had unjust cannabis sentences and on his last day,
he granted twelve of them. And he also granted another
case that actually UM, you know advocated. I brought Snoop
into the folds, uh and you know, introduced him to

(34:31):
Ivanka Trump. And you know, we we got Harry oh Out,
the co founder of death Row Records, and that was
a case that you know, we worked with and you know,
Alice Johnson was huge, you know, huge help on UM.
And so you know, we got a lot done into
the Trump administration. UM. And you know we're just trying
to continue that, you know, on to this administration. And
you know That's why I was part of you know,
last December by President Trump, because of the work that

(34:55):
I had done on the First Step Act in in elsewhere. Yeah,
I'm really happy to here all the work that you
had been doing, and I've worked on the First Step
Act two. I was on Capitol Hill lobbying the passage
of that that particular bill. But the Trump administration, I
think probably if they were to leave, when you think
about legacy, real and true legacy. One of the things

(35:17):
I think that Donald Trump can certainly help hold his
head up high and and say that he's proud is
on the criminal justice reform efforts, because I think he,
along with Mike Lee and others, had really opened the
eyes of conservatives across the country as to what was
really going on. You gotta have fairness when it comes

(35:38):
to justice. It can't it can't just be you know,
we're gonna throw the book at you. You gotta examine
every case with detail. And one of the things that
I was so disappointed with with the Clinton administration is
the fact that in this wasn't cannabis. Of course, this
was the distinction between crack cocaine and cocaine, and the
sentence and Commissions reports saying that there was a racial

(36:01):
disparity and they didn't do anything about it. And we've
seen that time and time again with a number of these,
as you mentioned, progressive administrations. Not now though, I mean
they're letting everyone out, but certainly during that during that
area when we're talking about West Fair, was just and
what they and they seemingly didn't really move on those issues.

(36:22):
But Donald Trump did. Do you maintain a relationship with
the former president to this day? Um, not him, but
I still have contact with Ivanka um here and there. UM.
And you know, just the fact that you know, him
and Snoop have this crazy beef um. You know, and
we were able to sort of you know, squash that UM.
And we were able to get that sort of squash

(36:42):
you know, uh, and and get some work them you
know before they left. Um. You know, I thought was
was pretty was was pretty amazing and so UM. So yeah,
you know, we we got a lot done in the administration,
and you know, the first step back has resulted in
you know, the release of sixteen thousand people. Yeah, I know,
that was crazy. So yeah, I think it was one
of the biggest reforms, you know since nineteen seventy really, um,

(37:05):
if you look at at all the different mandatory minimums
that were reformed, Um, you know, I think it was
you know, the biggest uh, you know reform since then.
And you know, we've got to keep going. And you know,
we're trying to get some work done under this administration.
And you know, I know it's it's starting off a
little slow, um, but you know we're hoping to continue going.
And recently we launched the Cannabis Freedom Alliance with um,

(37:27):
the cokes Um and Snoop and you know, making it
bipartisan in order to get more Republicans right. And I
want to ask you about that in in a in
a moment, because that that's a huge deal and that's
one in which you definitely should be congratulated on getting
the attention to Charles Coke. We're talking to Weldon. Angelo's
the new face of criminal justice reforms. We've got much

(37:49):
more with him right after a quick break. Since being released,
you have become one of the made your faces of
course of criminal justice reforms. What are your your goals
for changing the system right now? Right now? I think
you know, I mean, one of my biggest efforts is

(38:10):
ending this hypocrisy of allowing large corporations and mostly older,
you know, white entrepreneurs, you know, allowing them to make
millions while keeping um, you know, people incarcerated for doing
the same thing, and predominantly people of color. It's it's
a crazy hypocrisy. You know, I know someone that's serving
sixty years for a marijuana fense um while you know,
these corporations are allowed to make millions for doing the

(38:32):
same thing, and they're both violating federal statutes. You know,
it's still illegal. Even though the states have passed you know,
different laws, it's still illegal federally, and they're not charging them.
They're picking and choose and you know the winners and wansers,
and you know, it's just wrong. And so I think,
you know, we need to end the federal ban and
let the states decide and that way people can vote
with their feet um. And you know, the federal prison

(38:52):
system is is filled up with you know, thousands of
people you know in there for you know, non violent
cannabis charges while their way seen you know, the state
after state legalized. And so you know, that was my
whole purpose for you know, starting that alliance, because we
need to we need to pass federal legislation that de
schedules marijuana on the federal level. UM. And and as

(39:13):
far as other criminal justice you know, where we're trying
to get past, you know, various different criminal justice bills
because there's still a lot of work to be done.
We have to make the changes in the first step
back retroactive UM. And that's something that you know, Mike
leaves a big champion on the statute that gave me
fifty five years is not retroactive. The people that you know,
there's people still in there serving you know, longer sentences

(39:35):
than I had for the same type of conduct because
that was not retroactive. And so you know, we couldn't
get it done at the time because of Tom Cotton
and Ted Cruz, you know who flip flopped on the issue.
And so you know, now you know, we we have
a bill that that made that a committee and you know,
we got to try to get that passed through the Senate. Now, Uh,
Switching gears a little bit. Charles Cope, the billionaire libertarian,

(39:57):
was spent a fortune on political causes. He's now actively
funding efforts to the tune of twenty five million dollars
to in federal marijuana prohibition. Now, I know you're a
big part of the reason, at least from what I've read,
you're a good part of the reason why his Odds

(40:17):
was open to this, and you reached out to Charles
Coke and asked them if you would partner with you
in terms of having fairness in the in the system here,
especially when what marijuana his view to decriminalize it. Uh,
what is that relationship like and why did you choose
to reach out to him that that's a very interesting
person to reach out to. Yeah. So, um, you know,

(40:40):
when I had gotten out of jail, we had we
had a south By Southwest event and I connected h
Charles Coke and his team was Snoop trying to get
more work done. You know, we just had a Republican
president take office, and you know, we needed to try
to work together to get things done. And interestingly is
that was the week that the Snoop and Trump be

(41:00):
freely kicked off. And so it made it kind of
hard because you know, uh, what's the Marco Rubio and
Ted Cruz were telling the Coke don't do the event
with Snoop because he just made that video. You know,
about Trump, and so it was really hard, you know,
but we we still did the event, and you know,
we started, you know, I'm trying to bring my entertainment
friends over you know, to d C and and and

(41:21):
meet with you know, political figures, even take him to
the Trump White House so we can really get some
reform done. And so, you know, Snoop in the in
the Coke started, you know, working together because of you know,
my introduction, and um, we had a zoom call last August.
I had just gotten Loon out from bad Boy Records
p did. He's rapper and so we wanted him to
come on this event. And I had a Snoop, Snoop

(41:43):
come on. Huh yeah, lou was We had a fourteen
years sentence, um and so and and you know he
and when I got out, a lot of hip hop
industry reached out to me for help, you know, Harry, oh,
you know death Row because of my connection there. Um,
you know that was a Snoop's request. And then you
know a Loon from bad Boy um Rollo who's an

(42:04):
Atlanta rapper, working to get him out with Drake, working
with Drake and others to get him out. Um and
tayd Alla Signs brother and so a lot of people
in hip hop reached out to me for help, and
so we you know, I spent about eighteen months trying
to get Loon out, um. And you know, I took
his case to the White House and they were this
close to granting his clemency and then the riots and

(42:26):
he was in there for just a non violent drug fans.
He made an introduction to two people who went on
to do you know, some drug deals, and he got
caught up in the conspiracy law and so he had
a fourteen year sentence, and you know, we were very
close to getting him clemency and then you know that's
when everything really kicked off and with the pandemic and
everything else, um, and so they had to shift their

(42:46):
attention away from criminal justice, and so I used the
first step back to get him out to the court system.
And so when we got him out, um, you know,
we had this event with the Coats and you know,
I invited Snoop on and me and Charles and Snoop
had a one on one on this zoom private zoom call.
And you know, this is like you know, when you
know something you know and the idea my head based

(43:07):
on something Charles said about the need to you know,
end the war on on cannabis. You know, the light
bulb my head went off, like why don't I reach
out to them because I'm in the middle of trying
to you know, end prohibition, and so I reached out
to his team. Um. Actually, we're at the Hill America
tour um UH in Atlanta last year, and you know

(43:28):
that was had the cokes there, had Doug Decent, a
good friend of mine, um, and you know, that's when
I brought it up to him for the first time, like,
you know, we'd like to get your help in this,
and you know, they were honestly like, you know, we
had never considered getting into this issue or you know,
supporting the more active you know, something we've never considered.
You know, let us think about it. And you know
it took some months, you know, and then you know,

(43:50):
I think some time in like February, they said yes,
let's do it, um, and then we were happy, you know,
because Charles has a lot of influence over Republicans, and
then by coming out publicly in favor of legalization, it
gives other Republicans cover to say, you know, what. I
agree with this because we we speak to a lot
of Republicans that are like, you know, prohibition stupid. I
just don't know that I'm ready to come out publicly

(44:13):
and say I support it. Um. Now it's easier, you know,
because you know, we got different you know, Republicans like Charles,
like you know, um, you know, Mike Lee and others
that are saying, you know, states should have the right
to do what they want with regard to their drug laws.
And so, um, Charles is a perfect ally. I mean,
you know, they his his team spends you know, millions
every election cycle. I said, I felt like, you know

(44:35):
with that, um, you know that some of these repub
lawmakers are going to listen to him. Yeah. And and
of course, uh Mr Coke has been one who's been
responsible for a number of Republican wins and at one
time and probably still now is the biggest funder of
Republican causes in candidates. So to say that you reached

(44:56):
out to him, I think is a And he answered
as a huge, huge deal you and certainly your your
work with Snoop Dogg bringing them along for the ride.
On a cultural standpoint, that to have these kind of
conversations are really important. But let me ask you this question.
Out of all the things you've experienced thirteen years in jail,
the entire experience. Now you're a figure that's really well

(45:18):
known in criminal justice. You're working with billionaires, you're working
with celebrities to help other people get out of jail.
Donald Trump was the was the help and to push
that along. Let me ask you this very important question.
At all of that and all these experiences that you
that you had, do you regret selling though that marijuana

(45:40):
those three times? Do you regret it? No? I mean
I don't regret it, um from that perspective. I regret
it from you know, losing my career, and you know,
regret it from you know, taking that that that risk. Um,
I don't regret it. I don't think anything's wrong with
with cannabis. Um. You know, it never should have been
illegal in the first place, and it definitely should have

(46:01):
never triggered aft year sentence. But at the end of
the day, so much good has come out of you
know that my case. You know, we we we were
able to change federal law. We're able to do so
much with regard to that. Um So UM, I don't
regret it like I regret it from the perspective. I
regret it from the perspective that you know, doing that
ruined you know, my career. You know, I my son's lost,

(46:24):
you know, thirteen years of their life with me, and
you know, had to live in poverty because of it.
So I definitely regret it from that perspective. But now
you have uh an alliance that you you've you've created,
and can you tell us about your organization that you're
you're doing now in terms of changing the law, working
with the Cokes and certainly your organization to change the

(46:46):
law across the country federally in state by state as well. Yeah. So,
you know, after we passed the First Step Act, I
wanted to shift my attention to you know, cannabi's justice,
and so we launched the Weldon Project, which is a
five one C three, And then we launched an initiative
called Project Mission Grain and it's a clemency initiative, but

(47:06):
really our goal is to end incarceration for marijuana events
is especially on the federal level um and then shifting
to the states. And so we launched that and we've
really been trying to engage people with influence, especially in
the hip hop community, to get involved. And you know
that's something we've been very successful at. We just launched
a campaign with the rapper Russ Um and UM and

(47:27):
we when we were working with Drake on getting um,
you know, the the Biden administration to launch a cannabis
clemency program UM and so, you know, really we're trying
to unite you know, the entertainment industries, whether it's athletes, um,
you know, whether it's people in hip hop and bringing
them to the table with other like minded people, you know,
such as even conservatives, you know, Republicans, trying to you know,

(47:50):
keep that unlikely allies coalition alive so we can keep
making progress. Well, thank you so much for spending time
with me today to talk about your case. I certainly
read about it many years ago, and Senator Mike Lee
was the person that was pushing it. He was also
the person who wrote op ed, a pretty profound op
ed when the first step back was uh really being

(48:14):
debated and talked about, and it was a response to
Senator Tim Cotton, his colleague, who was also a Republican,
and him being having been a federal prosecutor, he was
able to lay it out in a way that was
understood from a legal perspective and wasn't necessarily political, but
just the right thing to do. And I think I can,
I can absolutely appreciate that. I don't UH me personally.

(48:36):
I think that the law has to change. I think
it should change, especially with all the things that are
going state by state, and Republicans I believe UH should
be very open to having those kind of conversations as
they had with your case. So thank you for spending
his time with me. And before we let you go,
is there anything you've got coming up? Any big projects

(48:57):
that the folks at home should know about before you go?
And where should people go to follow your work? Yeah?
Absolutely so anyone you know wanting to you know, get
involved or just you know, check out what we're doing,
they can go to the welcome project dot org um
and you know, sign up for a newsletter where they
can follow us on Instagram at Project Mission Green. And yeah,
we have a number of you know, interesting projects coming up. UM.

(49:18):
You know, we're about to launch a Proclamation for Justice
UM that includes a very bipartisan group of people from
you know, across the entertainment UM and you know, the
political both political aisles UM. You know, we have Republicans, Democrats, independents, UM,
and you know entertainers you know, from various backgrounds that

(49:38):
are you know, signed on to this Proclamation for Justice,
that is, you know, urging President Biden to you know,
do not only what he said he's gonna do, UM,
because he promised, you know, on the campaign trail that
he was going to decriminalize cannabis and that he was
going to you know, expende records of everyone with cannabis
uh felonies. And so you know, we we we're gonna

(49:58):
keep them to that promise, and we're gonna tinue, you know,
keep from pressure on him to do something about it
as soon as possible. UM. And then UM, you know,
we need to change it on the federal level as well,
which is why you know, we launched the Cannabis Scree, Tomorian.
And here we are talking about non violent and I
think that's a key question for folks at home, non
violent offenses, uh with regards to cannabis. So I appreciate

(50:23):
your time, thank you for coming on, and certainly wishing
you well as you move forward in your alliance and
and keeping these good folks like Ivanka Trump and everybody
else uh together on this issue as we hopefully see
real justice happen. Absolutely, thanks for having me on I

(50:54):
want to think Well had the most Again for a
fascinating interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us
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If you have any questions for me, please email me
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(51:18):
And if you're interested in learning more about my story,
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(51:38):
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