September 30, 2020 • 34 mins
A frantic call brings forward a new lead, with new clues and a new person of interest with connections to Bob LaRosa. As local authorities have been focused on a group of violent, sexually perverted men exploiting and violating young women in the area, a surprising connection links this new person of interest back to the water walls where police have been looking.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. So
here's the only one that saw or anything. And I
decided all I was doing is going for a gallon
of milk. The last time I spoke with Nancy McDonald,
I told her I would gather some photos of potential suspects. Nancy,
(00:22):
is that neighbor you heard in episode one she witnessed
a station wagon blocking the road and a man walking
towards the direction of Jane's pocket, the seven year old
girl who went missing while trying to find a dead
butterfly on the side of the road. I wanted to
know if Nancy would recognize anyone in the photos. I
(00:44):
met Nancy at her son's house. We sat across from
each other at the dining room table. I pulled out
the photos and began, one by one, placing them in
front of her. Among them a couple of photos of
randomly selected men and a few suspects who have been
tied to Janice's case at some point or another. So
(01:04):
here's the first picture. And I know it's not side too,
and it's not good, but you know clear enough. Yeah,
here's a clearer one. Now that's younger, he's younger. There
than you would have seen him. Nancy took about ten
minutes looking at all of the images, five in total,
pictures of men fitting the description of the person she
(01:25):
saw that July afternoon in Vree. She was focused and
wanted to be certain. Yeah, this guy did not have
he wouldn't have had that. He didn't always heat didn't
he didn't have it, and it wasn't wearing a halt.
The coloring of his hair is about right. Nancy picked
(01:46):
one photo. She said she recognized the guy's nose, hairline, profile,
and build. It was Bob LaRosa. Then I showed her
several photos of vehicles, and again Nancy picked out only
one vehicle from the bunch, Bob's station wagon. It's anecdotal,
(02:10):
I realized, not science. But it helps me to understand
that every step, every move I make to try to
exclude Bob lar Rosa only brings me that much closer
to him. Previously on paper ghosts, Nathan was always known
(02:31):
to be kind of at the back of the house,
kind of staring at the kids playing. Lisa being one
of them, and Nathan was like obsessed with her, would
always watch her. If my sister was to have gotten hurt,
I don't know one way or another. I hopefully it
didn't happen that way. But if anybody was to have
done something, I had have blamed Junior before I had
(02:51):
blamed Bob. Uncle. Bobby was a dangerous man. So claim
that the girls were put in the friend well. Yes,
he explained how to take a bar, open up the
well and then slide it back. And we have that outworth.
My name is and William Phelps. This is paper ghosts Terry,
(03:19):
what's going on? Holy sh it? So you know my
sister's birthday. As the summer headed toward an end, I
received a frantic call from Terry Shanks one late afternoon.
Terry is one of Susan Lerosa's sisters. You heard in
episode three. She posted something on Facebook to honor her
(03:40):
late sister's birthday in July, and sometime after publishing the post,
she received a message from a woman whose brother in
law was best friends with Bob Lerosa. I never felt
like this before in my life. I've never felt this
traveled or freaked out in my entire life. Ums everything.
(04:04):
I received a lot of these leads, many I've left
out of this podcast because they'd send you down an
unnecessary rabbit hole the way they've done to me. Most
I investigate and then they fizzle out quickly. I remember
my sister Susan hung out to that guy. He's shoot
up with him. But as Terry explained, what was a
sordid picture this woman painted of her brother in law,
(04:27):
who he knew, and where he lived. It fit into
the framework of what I had been investigating. It felt
like a line of inquiry. I needed to follow, Hi, Susanne,
how are you doing? Am I okay? Until actually I
(04:48):
feel a little relieved, like carrying this stuff in my
brain for a while. Suzanne St. Louis is the woman
who reached out to Terry Banks via Facebook. She grew
up on Crystal Lake, about a third of a mile
from the old LaRosa Home. Suzanne's sister married a guy
(05:08):
who she recalls was best friends with Bob Larrossa during
the late sixties early seventies. Her brother in law was
twenty when he groomed her fifteen year old sister into
a sexual relationship. After passing out one day in class,
Suzanne's sister realized she was pregnant. That is actually sexual assault.
(05:32):
The guy was twenty. Suzanne's sister fifteen a child. Suzanne
speaks with a stoic affect. It's hard to read how
she feels about what she's saying. But when I asked
her what kind of a guy her brother in law was,
that question fires up some emotion in her voice, and
(05:55):
there is no mistaking how she feels and what kind
of guy was he? Then? Because thin kind of guy
he died as come back Peters a wife, Peter a drunk,
never worked, pretty much an asshole. My sister was definitely
(06:15):
afraid of him, that I know. I bring Bob Larrossa
into the conversation. Oh were they were friends for years?
I think they were friends before he ever even married
my sister. And what would they do together? All around? Again,
they drive around together, go get wasted, drunk whatever. My
brother in law used to steal stuff. I mean, you know,
(06:37):
we show up with stuff that you knew he stole
from where nobody knew. It was August, two months after
Susan LaRosa went missing, when Suzanne's sister and brother in
law and their young daughter moved to Rockville, Connecticut whereabouts
(06:58):
in the corner of the village and War Street, So
right next to where Bob Larrossa lived. Yeah, it's a fact.
Bob Larrossa lived Downward Street, just around the block from
the witness, another one of his close friends who has
recently been talking about buried bodies in water wells. Now
(07:18):
we have this new person of interest, the violent brother
in law, living within one minute from both men, and
of course Nathan Rossa just a ten minute drive away,
living across from Crystal Lake. Suzanne says her brother in
law's apartment was party central weed booze guys hanging around,
(07:39):
and yes, lots of young girls too. Would they ever
get perverted with younger girls? Oh? Yeah, give me an
example if you can recall one. My sister comfort of
the nuss and disappeared. And I was there for the
entire summer to help myself, true or your own daughter.
(08:03):
But I was helping her with and when she had
the baby, she'd asked me to go over to the
house and pick up some stuff for her. She went
home to take a shower. Why, I was getting her
stuff ready and he come out completely naked and said,
you want to have a good time, come on in
the bedroom. And what did you say? I didn't say
(08:27):
a word. I went out and sat in the car.
I was like, Nope, that ain't happening. And how old
were you at the time? Thirteen, the same age as
two of the missing girls. It seems to be the
age most appealing to this group of guys in their
early twenties who ran around a small town allegedly forcing
(08:50):
underage girls into sexual situations. When I think back to
previous conversations with law enforcement over the years, it was
died to me by one state police detective that local
law enforcement has always been focused on a group of violent,
sexually perverted men exploiting and violating young women in this area,
(09:12):
Men who did whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted
and got away with it. It's imperative to understand the
motivation behind sexual assault and the evolution of how society
has viewed it. When you're investigating miss in person cases
and involving young females, sexual abuse and assault needs to
(09:35):
be part of that conversation. It can play a vital
role in the drive behind abduction and murder. Also offer
perspective sexual harassment, abuse and assault is not about sex.
It's about fear, intimidation, domination, power, control, and aggression. And
(09:59):
the more we talk about it. The more we understand it,
the more power we take away from the perpetrator. Just
seven weeks after his wife Susan went missing, Bob Larossa
was coming around Suzanne's sister's apartment, introducing everyone to his
(10:22):
new girlfriend. Susan had already been forgotten and replaced. Think
about that. If you recall in a previous episode, Bob
dispersed his three children just days after Susan disappeared. I've
been told that he got rid of all her belongings
within seventy two hours after she went missing. Now he's
(10:44):
bringing his new girlfriend around not even two months later.
Only two scenarios are possible here. The guy is either
cold and heartless or he knew Susan was never coming back.
So was there any talk about her never? I didn't
even I didn't even make the connection until years later.
(11:05):
At the time, I didn't even know she was missing.
I don't think I wondered if Susanne's brother in law
had ever mentioned Susan l Rosa anything about her being missing.
My sister passed away into Thousand Kids, and I was
going up there to see her because she was tired
of cancer, and I brought Susan Rosa up and he
(11:26):
got pissed. Tell me about that? What happened? What did
you say to him? We were talking about people at
the lake and stuff, and they said something about it,
like I wonder what had that happened to Susan Rosa?
They never really found out. And he goes, oh, yes,
guys stopped bringing that freaking ship up because I'm tired
of hearing about it. How did that make you feel?
(11:47):
When he said that? I was like, why are you lying? He?
I know he's lying. I knew he was lying. I
could tell. And what do you think he was lying
about that? He didn't know anything about it? I think
he totally knows or did I think he knew? What
do you think he knew what happened to her? He's
(12:10):
a guy with no conscience. I think he does or
ever did ever bothered him? That's you know, what do
they what do they call us? Sociopath? And then Suzanne
tells me about a time when she was riding in
her brother in law's car. I don't know where we
were going. I know it was him and my sister,
(12:31):
me and my niece were in the bag and it
was night time. We were going down Bamforth Road, and
he says that there's ghost out here, and I said,
you know, we were by the way the old cemetery is,
and I said, I said, I heard the story about
the cemetery and all that. He goes, I'm not talking
about the cemetery. There's goes out here. Bam Fourth Road
(12:55):
leads to the same road where Susan Loross's remains were found.
Albeit massive, there is only one section of woods on
this road. Of all the places in town, why would
this be the area Suzanne's brother in law refers to
as harboring ghosts and something else? Remember how an episode four,
(13:17):
Stacy LaRosa said she remembered seeing a guy in a
red and black flannel shirt who smelled of cherry tobacco,
helping her father, Bob LaRosa, carry her mother's body out
of their apartment the night she allegedly went missing. After
hearing that detail, Suzanne says she immediately thought of her
(13:38):
brother in law, who always wore flannel back in those days.
For what it's worth, I've heard the witness war flannel
as well, but look to keep things real. This type
of anecdotal information is interesting and sounds promising. But it's supposition,
just theory. Really, it doesn't prove any thing until well
(14:03):
it does. Susan Ange goes on to tell me that
after that summer Susan Larissa went missing, Bob and her
brother in law abruptly dissolved their friendship. Here were two
guys inseparable latch together at the hip. They've known each
other since childhood. Then Bob's wife disappears, He's got this
(14:25):
new girlfriend, and Suzanne's brother in law packs it up
and moves his family up to Maine, never contacts Bob again.
I've learned the Vernon police did make a trip up
to Maine to visit Suzanne's brother in law to ask
him about Susan Leros's disappearance. In the documents I have
the police approached him under the pretense that he knew
(14:47):
something but was not a suspect. After speaking with him,
it seems the Vernon Police Department ruled him out as
a suspect, but left the door open to talk to
him again, thinking he would have been an accessory after
the fact. I think it's weird that you know um
pretty much the whole time he lived up there, girls
(15:09):
for disappearing and then he moved and it stopped in Rockville.
You mean, and she used to ride around. You know, hey,
you want to get high, you want to get high,
And so he used to drive around Rockville asking if
girls needed a ride, well they wanted to go get
high or whatever. He used to be all eructional. He
(15:30):
was hardly have at home. Susanne then recalls an incident
that took place just weeks after Susan LaRosa went missing.
I was at my sister's. We went out to the
lake to get some more on my clothes because I
was going to spend some of the year. And we
don't get in the car and they go back seat,
(15:52):
the bottom part of the back seat missing. And this
is said, what the hell happened to the back seat?
And he goes, oh, I still oil all over and
I had to get rid of it. I couldn't get
the oil out of it, and I had to sit
on the floorboard in the back seat. Suzanne says her
brother in law's car, the one without the back seat,
(16:12):
had its blue carpet torn out. She remembers because she
had to sit on the steel underside of the car.
Near the time she drove past the cemetery. When her
brother in law mentioned ghosts that idea of a blue
carpet missing from a vehicle, it resonated with me. I
had heard it somewhere before, so I went through my
notes from interviews I've done, and there it was my
(16:35):
last conversation with the Wendels and what they'd found after
digging inside that artesian water well on their property. They
hired a bacco and called the state police, who decided
to come out. Ken Wendell found a video he'd made
of the day of that excavation. He located the file
on his laptop and told me to sit down and
take a look what I saw. Well, here it is.
(17:01):
Let me just tell you a piece of does a
tarp behind him. It's a plastic tarp that they found
very interesting. But I see that, and they thought that
was interesting that yeah, oh yeah. They held it up
and they were they all they all came over and
had to look at it, and had stayed a lot
of round stads on it. They weren't wordering if it
was blood or something going there. But so this is
(17:21):
what it looked like after we removed some clothing. So
there's still carpet still carpet, carpet, there's carpetings. I said,
we shouldn't be touching corpet. We should work in the carpet,
so we shouldn't be touching us. I looked at the
video closely and paused it that back home, in the
same well was lifting up a blue piece of carpet,
(17:42):
which is unquestionably not a section of house carpeting. So
that carpeting that was found, that blue carpeting was it carpeting?
Was It looked like he came out of the car. Hi, Terry,
are we going to be hiking? I don't think so. Um,
(18:06):
how are you doing? Good? To see it weird right now?
How come you're feeling weird? I don't know. I guess
it's normal for this. Yeah, it is. It's totally normal.
Like I didn't know what to do, what to bring.
I have flowers, I brought a steak. I brought a hammer,
beau so I can remember where this place isn't know
what I could do, what it was going to be allowed.
(18:27):
The last time I spoke at length with Terry Shanks,
she told me she didn't think Bob Larrossa acted alone
in the murder of her older sister Susan LaRosa. During
that conversation, Terry mentioned she had been coming out to
this wooded area in Vernon, Connecticut every year to place
flowers on the spot where she thought Susan's remains were
found more than forty years ago. Terry would pull over,
(18:49):
take a moment, play sunflowers inside a chain link fence, sunflowers.
Because Susan was such a free spirited, hippie kind of girl.
That detail stuck with me. The inherent pain and anxiety
that never leaves the family of the missing. It's not
even so much about who is responsible. It becomes instead
(19:09):
in all consuming, obsessive pursuit to bring the dead back home.
I knew the area Terry had been coming to all
these years wasn't the right location, and Susan's family deserves
to know exactly where. So I called Lieutenant Bill Meyer
from the Vernon Police and he said today for Terry
and I to meet him and another detective out at
(19:32):
the actual site. Bill Meyer is a great guy. He's
um You'll recognize him. He's the face of the Vernon
p D. Who you've seen. Um. Well, I try not
to look at Sorry. I have a really bad vibe
with them and hand of Ham Dave Hathaway. He's retiring soon.
(19:53):
What Terry is referring to is the family's frustration of
not being heard, feeling left out, not being kept up
to date, and not pursuing leads. Bill, are we in
the vicinity here and look bit further down the road? Yeah,
we did some work on it. Hi, I am Bill Meyer.
By the way, I am thanks, yes, thanks for coming out.
(20:16):
Glad of course. Um. We parked on the side of
the street just off ban Forth Road where Suzanne St.
Louis and her brother in law were riding that day
he mentioned ghosts. There are no houses around. I six,
now called eighty four, is just west. About a half
(20:38):
mile from here, a country road shaping like the letter
s heading north, cuts through two small bodies of water.
Just before one of those bodies of water is a
gate into an old logging road, which was accessible when
the girls went missing. That dirt logging road goes deep
into the forest, opens after about a half mile into
(21:03):
a fifty acre field, which is where we're heading. Nothing
is going to deter Terry from this moment. It's a
humid summer day, hot esteem the sun is bright and
beating on us, But who really gives a shit about conditions?
A sister wants to see where her siblings body was
(21:25):
dumped by those who killed her. As we chat, Bill
mentioned something of interest to me. That's why they used
to They used to dump leaves there right in the town,
dump over here. I don't know what conditioned that to.
I don't think he's got pulled out of It's just
a big, multiply animal. I don't know. Town employee access
(21:45):
is what I'm thinking. I have lived in this area
for forty years. I never knew the location even existed.
A majority of the people in town, I would bet
did not know either. This tells me Susan's killer had
to know how to access the location. He or they
had to be familiar with this area of town. Oh
(22:07):
oh boy, do the best we can. We got a road, well,
you know what I figured where my sister goes through.
You know, it's been a couple of generations of police
officers have worked on this investigation. We have the list,
(22:28):
you know, going back to you know, the original case officers,
and then well, unfortunately I can only speak from my
point of view. There really wasn't in any investigation that
included us as a family. So I can't get your
nay anything. I can say with absolute confidence. The Vernon
(22:50):
p D investigators working on Susan Larosa's case over the
years put in thousands of hours. Bob Larossa remained the
only in slightly suspect. In fact, when the case was
reopened in two thousand two, lab technicians along with renowned
forensic scientist Dr Henry Lee, members of the Vernon Police
(23:12):
Department's Detective Division, and Susan's sister Bernadette, went into the
old LaRosa apartment. Inside. Dr Henry Lee cut out pieces
of floor to examine later at the lab. They spent
months testing everything collected and found no human blood. Still,
the Vernon Police Department convinced the local prosecutor to take
(23:34):
the case to a grand jury, hoping to indict Bob LaRosa,
an effort that failed. Last time I called there, and
this was like probably a little over two years ago,
they gave me some twenty year old too. You didn't
even hadn't even opened up the case file yet. Horror. Yeah,
(23:57):
And he was supposed to call me and never did so.
I called that a couple of times and I said, no,
I'm done these cases. That's pretty common. You know they're
hot and gold. You know there'll be some momentum behind them.
Got Task Force a few years ago and there was
a lot of momentum then with the task Force. As
the Lieutenant, Bill Meyer takes the brunt of the victims
(24:18):
family's frustration. It's a lack of communication, not between police
and families, but police and police. Families just want to
know they're being heard. They want updates. Cold cases are
passed down to generations of investigators. Each has his or
her own way of doing things. We make our way
(24:41):
to a clearing. The site turned out to be a
few miles east from where Terry had been placing flowers
all those years. It's been four decades. For the first time,
Terry Shanks is going to stand on the exact location
and where her sister's decomposed remains, actually a skull, several bones,
(25:05):
and what was left of her clothing were found by laggers.
You see where that tree is, that's the spot. Yep,
that's that that shrub right there. Yeah, that big, that
big shrub right there. If you look, you the red dot,
see the red dot, it's pointing right to it. Terry stairs.
(25:26):
I gotta wonder what she's thinking. Bill decides to stay
back and wait. As Terry and I walk over, her
demeanor changes as we get closer to the scene. She
goes quiet. So, how you feeling being right here in
the spot? Okay, you're okay? Good? Her heart's I'm glad
(25:49):
we were able to put this together for you and
do this. We stay in at the exact location where
twenty year old Susan LaRosa, Terry Shanks's sister, was found.
Her remains scattered over a small section of the woods.
From what I've been told, cadaver dogs never searched this
area for any additional remains. However, law enforcement did shallowly
(26:15):
excavate a portion of the area around her body, but
found no additional evidence. Jesus Marian, Juice, Aina Hope us
out of grave for many Ah, you know what I
think it is here is what I meant by that,
a killer's dumping ground, if it's working, rarely changes in
(26:39):
this area. If the same purpose responsible for all or
a few of the girls worked for ten years. It
wasn't until Susan's remains were found that activity kind of stopped.
There is nothing around us trees, tall grass, wild flowers,
dense shrubbery, and an open field about the size of
(27:00):
the city park. If you wanted to dump bodies, nobody
would see you. The freeway to our west in the
background provides noise coverage. The logging road allows you to
take a vehicle in and out of here without anybody
seeing a damn thing. So you put in the flowers there?
(27:20):
How anxious? Sir? Yeah, Terry bent down. She closed her eyes.
Then she placed the sunflowers near what looked to be
a fox. Then sad, sad makes it more real. Sure,
I know it's real, but I mean, yeah, sminthing it
(27:43):
more real. It never goes away, you know, it doesn't.
Terry begins to think about April, Lisa White sister and
Mary Janice Pocket sister, the three of whom have formed
kind of a grief squad. They help and support each
other through it all. I mean, we have her, so
(28:06):
you know, we we are the lucky ones. Like I said,
we You know, people always said, oh, you're the lucky ones.
You found your person. We did, and you know, in
our heart of hearts we also know who did it,
so you know, and the other the other four they're
nowhere to be found, so I know, and that's what
I pray for every day for them. And you know,
(28:28):
even if they had this heap of a pile of wheats,
it would be something for them to memorialize. It's okay,
thank you, but you know where, you know where it is. Now.
You can come anytime. No one's gonna know, no one's
gonna bother you. I'll leave you for a minute by yourself, okay.
(28:49):
As we connect with Bill and begin walking back to
our vehicles, the lieutenant shares something. I don't think the
serious changed the whole lotto from known. Yeah, I don't
think it's much different. Bill then talks about missing people
in general and how police go about it today. I
had asked, because, for one, when Susan went missing, police
(29:11):
never went into her Ward Street apartment to do a
search or question Bob LaRosa at length. That all came later.
If someone goes missing today, I mean, you have number
one electronic edge so cell phones, things like that that
can be GPS tracked. I mean, facial recognition, even though
it's in its infancy. Now everything's electronic. The second new
(29:32):
skiing your credit card, financial DABT. You know, data things
like that. It's instantly traceable. Right, it's hard to scarry cash,
it's hard to hide, hard to hide. It's hard. So
we find people pretty quickly today. You know, I'm doing
usual for somebody missing more than a few days. By
the time we make it back to where our cards
are parked, our conversation turns to small talk about the area.
(29:54):
Just around the corner, a three minute drive west was
the location of the Iglu Restaurant, a popular hangout spot
for a lot of kids in the sixties and seventies,
including Lisa White, Irene and Susan Larrosa. Terry tells Bill
and I how she recalls going to the Igloo a
lot with the Witness, who was her brother in law
(30:16):
at the time. When you have a volatile source, in
this case, the Witness, you want to know everything you
can about him before you make an approach. For example,
I spoke to someone off the record who told me
the Witness whenever he drove into Connecticut from his new
place of residence in another state, he put his kids
(30:37):
in the trunk of the car before crossing the state line. Why.
I have no idea, but this says a hell of
a lot about that guy. I'm getting closer to reaching
out to the witness, but first I want to learn
a bit more from his ex wife, who just so
happens to be Susan Lerosa's sister. Anne. Prentice say, you
(31:00):
have a lot older than me. I was sixteen and
he was I think twenty two. I confirmed through and
that the witness worked for the Talent School System and
Bob and the witness did a lot of driving around
together during the day in Bob's station wagon and an
old fifties era ambulance, and describes her x as allegedly
(31:24):
being violent to the extreme. She was terrified of him.
I'm also interested in his habits beyond the dysfunction inside
the home. Would he leave at times and you not
know where he is? And that's why he would leave
for days at the time, for days at a time, well,
(31:44):
like she'dly, let's say he went to work this morning,
I may not see him till tomorrow night, right, And
any idea where he went now? And I learned not
to ask, if you recall from a previous episode. And
Prentice was childhood best friends with Irene LaRosa, and they
(32:06):
bonded because they were allegedly raped as teenagers, the implication
being that Nathan LaRosa was responsible, though Anne, still quite
devastated by the trauma, did not want to go into
detail about it. Around the time her sister Susan went
missing and in the witness lived a few houses away
(32:27):
from Susan and Bob Lerosa's apartment in Rockville. So I
asked Ann if she recalls anything about the night her
sister Susan went missing, and what the witness did. He
didn't come home that night, what point he did? I
don't know, I asked Anne. After she married the witness,
(32:48):
did Irene's name ever come up? No. The only bad
thing he ever said to me was he got really
mad at on time and he said, if you don't
watch it, you're gonna end up like your sister. In
(33:10):
the next episode of paper Ghosts, a lot of looked
the same, So we started looking at it, is this
more than one person? Is this sort of like you
know something that was doing this in the area, you
know duc Control, Then at aid Um, you know in
Jena's pocket. Respect. They could say two different things that
he he's involved, and one of the missings for be
(33:35):
that he's a victim himself. Let me ask you a
question that has come up for me in this Do
you remember ever hearing the name Irene Lo Rosa as
someone who was missing. No, that doesn't doesn't sound familiar
to me. Another thing people constantly say to me is
don't worry, she'll come back. Maybe they think that it
(33:56):
will make you feel better, but it doesn't. Paper Ghosts
is written and executive produced by me and William Phelps,
with help from producer Christina Everett and sound editing by
Pete Cardy from Backroom Audio. A special thanks to Abu
Safar and Will Pearson from I Heart Radio. The series
(34:18):
theme number four four two is written and performed by
Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. So
here's the only one that saw or anything. And I
decided all I was doing is going for a gallon
of milk. The last time I spoke with Nancy McDonald,
I told her I would gather some photos of potential suspects. Nancy,
(00:22):
is that neighbor you heard in episode one she witnessed
a station wagon blocking the road and a man walking
towards the direction of Jane's pocket, the seven year old
girl who went missing while trying to find a dead
butterfly on the side of the road. I wanted to
know if Nancy would recognize anyone in the photos. I
(00:44):
met Nancy at her son's house. We sat across from
each other at the dining room table. I pulled out
the photos and began, one by one, placing them in
front of her. Among them a couple of photos of
randomly selected men and a few suspects who have been
tied to Janice's case at some point or another. So
(01:04):
here's the first picture. And I know it's not side too,
and it's not good, but you know clear enough. Yeah,
here's a clearer one. Now that's younger, he's younger. There
than you would have seen him. Nancy took about ten
minutes looking at all of the images, five in total,
pictures of men fitting the description of the person she
(01:25):
saw that July afternoon in Vree. She was focused and
wanted to be certain. Yeah, this guy did not have
he wouldn't have had that. He didn't always heat didn't
he didn't have it, and it wasn't wearing a halt.
The coloring of his hair is about right. Nancy picked
(01:46):
one photo. She said she recognized the guy's nose, hairline, profile,
and build. It was Bob LaRosa. Then I showed her
several photos of vehicles, and again Nancy picked out only
one vehicle from the bunch, Bob's station wagon. It's anecdotal,
(02:10):
I realized, not science. But it helps me to understand
that every step, every move I make to try to
exclude Bob lar Rosa only brings me that much closer
to him. Previously on paper ghosts, Nathan was always known
(02:31):
to be kind of at the back of the house,
kind of staring at the kids playing. Lisa being one
of them, and Nathan was like obsessed with her, would
always watch her. If my sister was to have gotten hurt,
I don't know one way or another. I hopefully it
didn't happen that way. But if anybody was to have
done something, I had have blamed Junior before I had
(02:51):
blamed Bob. Uncle. Bobby was a dangerous man. So claim
that the girls were put in the friend well. Yes,
he explained how to take a bar, open up the
well and then slide it back. And we have that outworth.
My name is and William Phelps. This is paper ghosts Terry,
(03:19):
what's going on? Holy sh it? So you know my
sister's birthday. As the summer headed toward an end, I
received a frantic call from Terry Shanks one late afternoon.
Terry is one of Susan Lerosa's sisters. You heard in
episode three. She posted something on Facebook to honor her
(03:40):
late sister's birthday in July, and sometime after publishing the post,
she received a message from a woman whose brother in
law was best friends with Bob Lerosa. I never felt
like this before in my life. I've never felt this
traveled or freaked out in my entire life. Ums everything.
(04:04):
I received a lot of these leads, many I've left
out of this podcast because they'd send you down an
unnecessary rabbit hole the way they've done to me. Most
I investigate and then they fizzle out quickly. I remember
my sister Susan hung out to that guy. He's shoot
up with him. But as Terry explained, what was a
sordid picture this woman painted of her brother in law,
(04:27):
who he knew, and where he lived. It fit into
the framework of what I had been investigating. It felt
like a line of inquiry. I needed to follow, Hi, Susanne,
how are you doing? Am I okay? Until actually I
(04:48):
feel a little relieved, like carrying this stuff in my
brain for a while. Suzanne St. Louis is the woman
who reached out to Terry Banks via Facebook. She grew
up on Crystal Lake, about a third of a mile
from the old LaRosa Home. Suzanne's sister married a guy
(05:08):
who she recalls was best friends with Bob Larrossa during
the late sixties early seventies. Her brother in law was
twenty when he groomed her fifteen year old sister into
a sexual relationship. After passing out one day in class,
Suzanne's sister realized she was pregnant. That is actually sexual assault.
(05:32):
The guy was twenty. Suzanne's sister fifteen a child. Suzanne
speaks with a stoic affect. It's hard to read how
she feels about what she's saying. But when I asked
her what kind of a guy her brother in law was,
that question fires up some emotion in her voice, and
(05:55):
there is no mistaking how she feels and what kind
of guy was he? Then? Because thin kind of guy
he died as come back Peters a wife, Peter a drunk,
never worked, pretty much an asshole. My sister was definitely
(06:15):
afraid of him, that I know. I bring Bob Larrossa
into the conversation. Oh were they were friends for years?
I think they were friends before he ever even married
my sister. And what would they do together? All around? Again,
they drive around together, go get wasted, drunk whatever. My
brother in law used to steal stuff. I mean, you know,
(06:37):
we show up with stuff that you knew he stole
from where nobody knew. It was August, two months after
Susan LaRosa went missing, when Suzanne's sister and brother in
law and their young daughter moved to Rockville, Connecticut whereabouts
(06:58):
in the corner of the village and War Street, So
right next to where Bob Larrossa lived. Yeah, it's a fact.
Bob Larrossa lived Downward Street, just around the block from
the witness, another one of his close friends who has
recently been talking about buried bodies in water wells. Now
(07:18):
we have this new person of interest, the violent brother
in law, living within one minute from both men, and
of course Nathan Rossa just a ten minute drive away,
living across from Crystal Lake. Suzanne says her brother in
law's apartment was party central weed booze guys hanging around,
(07:39):
and yes, lots of young girls too. Would they ever
get perverted with younger girls? Oh? Yeah, give me an
example if you can recall one. My sister comfort of
the nuss and disappeared. And I was there for the
entire summer to help myself, true or your own daughter.
(08:03):
But I was helping her with and when she had
the baby, she'd asked me to go over to the
house and pick up some stuff for her. She went
home to take a shower. Why, I was getting her
stuff ready and he come out completely naked and said,
you want to have a good time, come on in
the bedroom. And what did you say? I didn't say
(08:27):
a word. I went out and sat in the car.
I was like, Nope, that ain't happening. And how old
were you at the time? Thirteen, the same age as
two of the missing girls. It seems to be the
age most appealing to this group of guys in their
early twenties who ran around a small town allegedly forcing
(08:50):
underage girls into sexual situations. When I think back to
previous conversations with law enforcement over the years, it was
died to me by one state police detective that local
law enforcement has always been focused on a group of violent,
sexually perverted men exploiting and violating young women in this area,
(09:12):
Men who did whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted
and got away with it. It's imperative to understand the
motivation behind sexual assault and the evolution of how society
has viewed it. When you're investigating miss in person cases
and involving young females, sexual abuse and assault needs to
(09:35):
be part of that conversation. It can play a vital
role in the drive behind abduction and murder. Also offer
perspective sexual harassment, abuse and assault is not about sex.
It's about fear, intimidation, domination, power, control, and aggression. And
(09:59):
the more we talk about it. The more we understand it,
the more power we take away from the perpetrator. Just
seven weeks after his wife Susan went missing, Bob Larossa
was coming around Suzanne's sister's apartment, introducing everyone to his
(10:22):
new girlfriend. Susan had already been forgotten and replaced. Think
about that. If you recall in a previous episode, Bob
dispersed his three children just days after Susan disappeared. I've
been told that he got rid of all her belongings
within seventy two hours after she went missing. Now he's
(10:44):
bringing his new girlfriend around not even two months later.
Only two scenarios are possible here. The guy is either
cold and heartless or he knew Susan was never coming back.
So was there any talk about her never? I didn't
even I didn't even make the connection until years later.
(11:05):
At the time, I didn't even know she was missing.
I don't think I wondered if Susanne's brother in law
had ever mentioned Susan l Rosa anything about her being missing.
My sister passed away into Thousand Kids, and I was
going up there to see her because she was tired
of cancer, and I brought Susan Rosa up and he
(11:26):
got pissed. Tell me about that? What happened? What did
you say to him? We were talking about people at
the lake and stuff, and they said something about it,
like I wonder what had that happened to Susan Rosa?
They never really found out. And he goes, oh, yes,
guys stopped bringing that freaking ship up because I'm tired
of hearing about it. How did that make you feel?
(11:47):
When he said that? I was like, why are you lying? He?
I know he's lying. I knew he was lying. I
could tell. And what do you think he was lying
about that? He didn't know anything about it? I think
he totally knows or did I think he knew? What
do you think he knew what happened to her? He's
(12:10):
a guy with no conscience. I think he does or
ever did ever bothered him? That's you know, what do
they what do they call us? Sociopath? And then Suzanne
tells me about a time when she was riding in
her brother in law's car. I don't know where we
were going. I know it was him and my sister,
(12:31):
me and my niece were in the bag and it
was night time. We were going down Bamforth Road, and
he says that there's ghost out here, and I said,
you know, we were by the way the old cemetery is,
and I said, I said, I heard the story about
the cemetery and all that. He goes, I'm not talking
about the cemetery. There's goes out here. Bam Fourth Road
(12:55):
leads to the same road where Susan Loross's remains were found.
Albeit massive, there is only one section of woods on
this road. Of all the places in town, why would
this be the area Suzanne's brother in law refers to
as harboring ghosts and something else? Remember how an episode four,
(13:17):
Stacy LaRosa said she remembered seeing a guy in a
red and black flannel shirt who smelled of cherry tobacco,
helping her father, Bob LaRosa, carry her mother's body out
of their apartment the night she allegedly went missing. After
hearing that detail, Suzanne says she immediately thought of her
(13:38):
brother in law, who always wore flannel back in those days.
For what it's worth, I've heard the witness war flannel
as well, but look to keep things real. This type
of anecdotal information is interesting and sounds promising. But it's supposition,
just theory. Really, it doesn't prove any thing until well
(14:03):
it does. Susan Ange goes on to tell me that
after that summer Susan Larissa went missing, Bob and her
brother in law abruptly dissolved their friendship. Here were two
guys inseparable latch together at the hip. They've known each
other since childhood. Then Bob's wife disappears, He's got this
(14:25):
new girlfriend, and Suzanne's brother in law packs it up
and moves his family up to Maine, never contacts Bob again.
I've learned the Vernon police did make a trip up
to Maine to visit Suzanne's brother in law to ask
him about Susan Leros's disappearance. In the documents I have
the police approached him under the pretense that he knew
(14:47):
something but was not a suspect. After speaking with him,
it seems the Vernon Police Department ruled him out as
a suspect, but left the door open to talk to
him again, thinking he would have been an accessory after
the fact. I think it's weird that you know um
pretty much the whole time he lived up there, girls
(15:09):
for disappearing and then he moved and it stopped in Rockville.
You mean, and she used to ride around. You know, hey,
you want to get high, you want to get high,
And so he used to drive around Rockville asking if
girls needed a ride, well they wanted to go get
high or whatever. He used to be all eructional. He
(15:30):
was hardly have at home. Susanne then recalls an incident
that took place just weeks after Susan LaRosa went missing.
I was at my sister's. We went out to the
lake to get some more on my clothes because I
was going to spend some of the year. And we
don't get in the car and they go back seat,
(15:52):
the bottom part of the back seat missing. And this
is said, what the hell happened to the back seat?
And he goes, oh, I still oil all over and
I had to get rid of it. I couldn't get
the oil out of it, and I had to sit
on the floorboard in the back seat. Suzanne says her
brother in law's car, the one without the back seat,
(16:12):
had its blue carpet torn out. She remembers because she
had to sit on the steel underside of the car.
Near the time she drove past the cemetery. When her
brother in law mentioned ghosts that idea of a blue
carpet missing from a vehicle, it resonated with me. I
had heard it somewhere before, so I went through my
notes from interviews I've done, and there it was my
(16:35):
last conversation with the Wendels and what they'd found after
digging inside that artesian water well on their property. They
hired a bacco and called the state police, who decided
to come out. Ken Wendell found a video he'd made
of the day of that excavation. He located the file
on his laptop and told me to sit down and
take a look what I saw. Well, here it is.
(17:01):
Let me just tell you a piece of does a
tarp behind him. It's a plastic tarp that they found
very interesting. But I see that, and they thought that
was interesting that yeah, oh yeah. They held it up
and they were they all they all came over and
had to look at it, and had stayed a lot
of round stads on it. They weren't wordering if it
was blood or something going there. But so this is
(17:21):
what it looked like after we removed some clothing. So
there's still carpet still carpet, carpet, there's carpetings. I said,
we shouldn't be touching corpet. We should work in the carpet,
so we shouldn't be touching us. I looked at the
video closely and paused it that back home, in the
same well was lifting up a blue piece of carpet,
(17:42):
which is unquestionably not a section of house carpeting. So
that carpeting that was found, that blue carpeting was it carpeting?
Was It looked like he came out of the car. Hi, Terry,
are we going to be hiking? I don't think so. Um,
(18:06):
how are you doing? Good? To see it weird right now?
How come you're feeling weird? I don't know. I guess
it's normal for this. Yeah, it is. It's totally normal.
Like I didn't know what to do, what to bring.
I have flowers, I brought a steak. I brought a hammer,
beau so I can remember where this place isn't know
what I could do, what it was going to be allowed.
(18:27):
The last time I spoke at length with Terry Shanks,
she told me she didn't think Bob Larrossa acted alone
in the murder of her older sister Susan LaRosa. During
that conversation, Terry mentioned she had been coming out to
this wooded area in Vernon, Connecticut every year to place
flowers on the spot where she thought Susan's remains were
found more than forty years ago. Terry would pull over,
(18:49):
take a moment, play sunflowers inside a chain link fence, sunflowers.
Because Susan was such a free spirited, hippie kind of girl.
That detail stuck with me. The inherent pain and anxiety
that never leaves the family of the missing. It's not
even so much about who is responsible. It becomes instead
(19:09):
in all consuming, obsessive pursuit to bring the dead back home.
I knew the area Terry had been coming to all
these years wasn't the right location, and Susan's family deserves
to know exactly where. So I called Lieutenant Bill Meyer
from the Vernon Police and he said today for Terry
and I to meet him and another detective out at
(19:32):
the actual site. Bill Meyer is a great guy. He's
um You'll recognize him. He's the face of the Vernon
p D. Who you've seen. Um. Well, I try not
to look at Sorry. I have a really bad vibe
with them and hand of Ham Dave Hathaway. He's retiring soon.
(19:53):
What Terry is referring to is the family's frustration of
not being heard, feeling left out, not being kept up
to date, and not pursuing leads. Bill, are we in
the vicinity here and look bit further down the road? Yeah,
we did some work on it. Hi, I am Bill Meyer.
By the way, I am thanks, yes, thanks for coming out.
(20:16):
Glad of course. Um. We parked on the side of
the street just off ban Forth Road where Suzanne St.
Louis and her brother in law were riding that day
he mentioned ghosts. There are no houses around. I six,
now called eighty four, is just west. About a half
(20:38):
mile from here, a country road shaping like the letter
s heading north, cuts through two small bodies of water.
Just before one of those bodies of water is a
gate into an old logging road, which was accessible when
the girls went missing. That dirt logging road goes deep
into the forest, opens after about a half mile into
(21:03):
a fifty acre field, which is where we're heading. Nothing
is going to deter Terry from this moment. It's a
humid summer day, hot esteem the sun is bright and
beating on us, But who really gives a shit about conditions?
A sister wants to see where her siblings body was
(21:25):
dumped by those who killed her. As we chat, Bill
mentioned something of interest to me. That's why they used
to They used to dump leaves there right in the town,
dump over here. I don't know what conditioned that to.
I don't think he's got pulled out of It's just
a big, multiply animal. I don't know. Town employee access
(21:45):
is what I'm thinking. I have lived in this area
for forty years. I never knew the location even existed.
A majority of the people in town, I would bet
did not know either. This tells me Susan's killer had
to know how to access the location. He or they
had to be familiar with this area of town. Oh
(22:07):
oh boy, do the best we can. We got a road, well,
you know what I figured where my sister goes through.
You know, it's been a couple of generations of police
officers have worked on this investigation. We have the list,
(22:28):
you know, going back to you know, the original case officers,
and then well, unfortunately I can only speak from my
point of view. There really wasn't in any investigation that
included us as a family. So I can't get your
nay anything. I can say with absolute confidence. The Vernon
(22:50):
p D investigators working on Susan Larosa's case over the
years put in thousands of hours. Bob Larossa remained the
only in slightly suspect. In fact, when the case was
reopened in two thousand two, lab technicians along with renowned
forensic scientist Dr Henry Lee, members of the Vernon Police
(23:12):
Department's Detective Division, and Susan's sister Bernadette, went into the
old LaRosa apartment. Inside. Dr Henry Lee cut out pieces
of floor to examine later at the lab. They spent
months testing everything collected and found no human blood. Still,
the Vernon Police Department convinced the local prosecutor to take
(23:34):
the case to a grand jury, hoping to indict Bob LaRosa,
an effort that failed. Last time I called there, and
this was like probably a little over two years ago,
they gave me some twenty year old too. You didn't
even hadn't even opened up the case file yet. Horror. Yeah,
(23:57):
And he was supposed to call me and never did so.
I called that a couple of times and I said, no,
I'm done these cases. That's pretty common. You know they're
hot and gold. You know there'll be some momentum behind them.
Got Task Force a few years ago and there was
a lot of momentum then with the task Force. As
the Lieutenant, Bill Meyer takes the brunt of the victims
(24:18):
family's frustration. It's a lack of communication, not between police
and families, but police and police. Families just want to
know they're being heard. They want updates. Cold cases are
passed down to generations of investigators. Each has his or
her own way of doing things. We make our way
(24:41):
to a clearing. The site turned out to be a
few miles east from where Terry had been placing flowers
all those years. It's been four decades. For the first time,
Terry Shanks is going to stand on the exact location
and where her sister's decomposed remains, actually a skull, several bones,
(25:05):
and what was left of her clothing were found by laggers.
You see where that tree is, that's the spot. Yep,
that's that that shrub right there. Yeah, that big, that
big shrub right there. If you look, you the red dot,
see the red dot, it's pointing right to it. Terry stairs.
(25:26):
I gotta wonder what she's thinking. Bill decides to stay
back and wait. As Terry and I walk over, her
demeanor changes as we get closer to the scene. She
goes quiet. So, how you feeling being right here in
the spot? Okay, you're okay? Good? Her heart's I'm glad
(25:49):
we were able to put this together for you and
do this. We stay in at the exact location where
twenty year old Susan LaRosa, Terry Shanks's sister, was found.
Her remains scattered over a small section of the woods.
From what I've been told, cadaver dogs never searched this
area for any additional remains. However, law enforcement did shallowly
(26:15):
excavate a portion of the area around her body, but
found no additional evidence. Jesus Marian, Juice, Aina Hope us
out of grave for many Ah, you know what I
think it is here is what I meant by that,
a killer's dumping ground, if it's working, rarely changes in
(26:39):
this area. If the same purpose responsible for all or
a few of the girls worked for ten years. It
wasn't until Susan's remains were found that activity kind of stopped.
There is nothing around us trees, tall grass, wild flowers,
dense shrubbery, and an open field about the size of
(27:00):
the city park. If you wanted to dump bodies, nobody
would see you. The freeway to our west in the
background provides noise coverage. The logging road allows you to
take a vehicle in and out of here without anybody
seeing a damn thing. So you put in the flowers there?
(27:20):
How anxious? Sir? Yeah, Terry bent down. She closed her eyes.
Then she placed the sunflowers near what looked to be
a fox. Then sad, sad makes it more real. Sure,
I know it's real, but I mean, yeah, sminthing it
(27:43):
more real. It never goes away, you know, it doesn't.
Terry begins to think about April, Lisa White sister and
Mary Janice Pocket sister, the three of whom have formed
kind of a grief squad. They help and support each
other through it all. I mean, we have her, so
(28:06):
you know, we we are the lucky ones. Like I said,
we You know, people always said, oh, you're the lucky ones.
You found your person. We did, and you know, in
our heart of hearts we also know who did it,
so you know, and the other the other four they're
nowhere to be found, so I know, and that's what
I pray for every day for them. And you know,
(28:28):
even if they had this heap of a pile of wheats,
it would be something for them to memorialize. It's okay,
thank you, but you know where, you know where it is. Now.
You can come anytime. No one's gonna know, no one's
gonna bother you. I'll leave you for a minute by yourself, okay.
(28:49):
As we connect with Bill and begin walking back to
our vehicles, the lieutenant shares something. I don't think the
serious changed the whole lotto from known. Yeah, I don't
think it's much different. Bill then talks about missing people
in general and how police go about it today. I
had asked, because, for one, when Susan went missing, police
(29:11):
never went into her Ward Street apartment to do a
search or question Bob LaRosa at length. That all came later.
If someone goes missing today, I mean, you have number
one electronic edge so cell phones, things like that that
can be GPS tracked. I mean, facial recognition, even though
it's in its infancy. Now everything's electronic. The second new
(29:32):
skiing your credit card, financial DABT. You know, data things
like that. It's instantly traceable. Right, it's hard to scarry cash,
it's hard to hide, hard to hide. It's hard. So
we find people pretty quickly today. You know, I'm doing
usual for somebody missing more than a few days. By
the time we make it back to where our cards
are parked, our conversation turns to small talk about the area.
(29:54):
Just around the corner, a three minute drive west was
the location of the Iglu Restaurant, a popular hangout spot
for a lot of kids in the sixties and seventies,
including Lisa White, Irene and Susan Larrosa. Terry tells Bill
and I how she recalls going to the Igloo a
lot with the Witness, who was her brother in law
(30:16):
at the time. When you have a volatile source, in
this case, the Witness, you want to know everything you
can about him before you make an approach. For example,
I spoke to someone off the record who told me
the Witness whenever he drove into Connecticut from his new
place of residence in another state, he put his kids
(30:37):
in the trunk of the car before crossing the state line. Why.
I have no idea, but this says a hell of
a lot about that guy. I'm getting closer to reaching
out to the witness, but first I want to learn
a bit more from his ex wife, who just so
happens to be Susan Lerosa's sister. Anne. Prentice say, you
(31:00):
have a lot older than me. I was sixteen and
he was I think twenty two. I confirmed through and
that the witness worked for the Talent School System and
Bob and the witness did a lot of driving around
together during the day in Bob's station wagon and an
old fifties era ambulance, and describes her x as allegedly
(31:24):
being violent to the extreme. She was terrified of him.
I'm also interested in his habits beyond the dysfunction inside
the home. Would he leave at times and you not
know where he is? And that's why he would leave
for days at the time, for days at a time, well,
(31:44):
like she'dly, let's say he went to work this morning,
I may not see him till tomorrow night, right, And
any idea where he went now? And I learned not
to ask, if you recall from a previous episode. And
Prentice was childhood best friends with Irene LaRosa, and they
(32:06):
bonded because they were allegedly raped as teenagers, the implication
being that Nathan LaRosa was responsible, though Anne, still quite
devastated by the trauma, did not want to go into
detail about it. Around the time her sister Susan went
missing and in the witness lived a few houses away
(32:27):
from Susan and Bob Lerosa's apartment in Rockville. So I
asked Ann if she recalls anything about the night her
sister Susan went missing, and what the witness did. He
didn't come home that night, what point he did? I
don't know, I asked Anne. After she married the witness,
(32:48):
did Irene's name ever come up? No. The only bad
thing he ever said to me was he got really
mad at on time and he said, if you don't
watch it, you're gonna end up like your sister. In
(33:10):
the next episode of paper Ghosts, a lot of looked
the same, So we started looking at it, is this
more than one person? Is this sort of like you
know something that was doing this in the area, you
know duc Control, Then at aid Um, you know in
Jena's pocket. Respect. They could say two different things that
he he's involved, and one of the missings for be
(33:35):
that he's a victim himself. Let me ask you a
question that has come up for me in this Do
you remember ever hearing the name Irene Lo Rosa as
someone who was missing. No, that doesn't doesn't sound familiar
to me. Another thing people constantly say to me is
don't worry, she'll come back. Maybe they think that it
(33:56):
will make you feel better, but it doesn't. Paper Ghosts
is written and executive produced by me and William Phelps,
with help from producer Christina Everett and sound editing by
Pete Cardy from Backroom Audio. A special thanks to Abu
Safar and Will Pearson from I Heart Radio. The series
(34:18):
theme number four four two is written and performed by
Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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