Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Pee Wee sues the state of South Carolina. His moral code is examined. And Barnwell Yates becomes another of Pee Wee's victims. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Pewee Gaskins had a reputation as a liar, a manipulator,
and a killer. He dominated and controlled everyone around him,
but surprisingly, he was also known for his kindness. He
enjoyed hosting cookouts on weekends for his family and friends,
with children playing all around them. He extended his generosity

(00:25):
to the elderly on several occasions. Peewee could make you
believe he was a really nice guy and your friend.
But beneath that charming exterior, a killer lurked. Doctor Jekyll
and Mr Hyde, the man who would fix a senior
citizen's car for free, and the monster who would stab

(00:47):
you with a campbell soup knife. He attacked to the
different guards put them both in the hospital. Was he
really crazy or just somebody wanted to kill somebody? It
was the scariest, most frightening thing I've seeing, and I

(01:14):
realized that I had violated the code from my heart
radio and doghouse pictures. This is Peewee Gaskins was not
my friend. I'm Jeff Keating. The relationship between Jim and

(01:45):
Peewee grew over time and extended to Jim's wife and kids.
The tales from his prison interviews were source of entertainments
for the whole family. He would come back from a
visit to Peewee and we would gather together and hear
the stories scary stores for the children and the little ones.

(02:10):
My concerns grew and the children got more fascinated with
the gory details. But there were funny and endearing stories
about Peewee that Jim shared with his family as well.
It was that man, good Guy Gaskins that Jim and
the Baby family built a rapport with on their weekly

(02:31):
Sunday morning phone calls Pee Wee made to their house
from prison. I called it research. I was researching this
mass murder and anything that I could learn I wanted
to learn. So I thought that was one more way
of being able to do this. The phone call is
going answered, usually by two of the younger children, and

(02:53):
they would call me to the phone after some conversation.
He called dozens of times do I house on Sunday morning.
Jim drove two hours each way to visit Peewee every week,
listening to Merle Haggard and Frank Sinatra on cassette tapes,
thinking about the book and the stories he was going

(03:15):
to put in it. He never knew how long the
interviews would continue or if the prison would stop them
for some reason. The phone calls were follow up research,
Jim called it, and the Sunday morning calls also created
a new family dynamic. And I wasn't afraid for him.
I don't know why I wasn't, but I wasn't. It

(03:37):
was a big prison. Peewee would call for Jim, but
on the way to getting Jim on the phone, the
kids would be asked by him, are you going to
Sunday school? Like being good? And Christian was fascinated with that.
It was one of those calls with Christian that ended
with a surprise invitation. Christian, I think was eight years old,

(04:02):
and he was answering the phone regularly and he we
call one Sunday and Christian took the call and the
entire conversation was between Christian and Peewee. I was not
called to the phone. Christian hung up and came to
my office and said, Dad, did you know Peewee suing
the state of South Carolina? I said no, Christian, do

(04:24):
you know my mother Goose? He said, Dad, I'm serious.
He said they've mistreated him. What do you mean, Christian?
He said, they have neglected his hemorrhoids, and we both
laughed a bit. He said, and there's a hearing at
the end of next week and we are all invited.

(04:46):
I said, Christian, have you taken leave of your senses?
And what's wrong with you? Boy? He said, Dad, I'm
telling the truth. So I called my attorney and I
asked him, could it possibly be true that pee Wee
is suing the State of South Carolina for cruel and
unusual punishment? He said, indeed he is. And I hope

(05:08):
you all can attend to hear him because I can't
be there. That week. We go to Colombia, two of
our younger children, and I need to go to the hearing.
There's no one in the room except a judge and
two state attorneys and Peewee with the guards who have

(05:29):
him handcuffed. And pee Wee presents his case and is
suing the State of South Carolina for one million dollars
for neglecting his hemorrhoids. Peewee was worried and in pain,
and he was seeking relief. We were there in the courtroom.

(05:56):
I expected five ft two one inch tough, really pale skin,
really black hair. He walked in. His arms were chained
to his waist. He had on ankle chains. It sounded
like that scene from the Eboneza Screws story The Ghost
of Christmas past rattying his change coming in the courtroom,

(06:20):
and there were two marshals, one on either side of him,
and they looked big and burly, and he didn't even
come up to their shoulders, but they were so nervous
with him, and he was smiling, I know I'm the man,
and you don't know what I'm gonna do next kind
of thing. It was just really fascinating, and I was

(06:42):
shocked at how small he was and frei looking, and
they were so obviously nervous. The hearing only lasted a
few minutes. Peewee complained that the prison officials had failed
to address his repeated complaints about hemorrhoids, and they're in
a tension to his medical condition amounted to cruel and

(07:03):
unusual punishment. He requested the judge rule in his favor
and award him one million dollars as compensation for his
pain and suffering. The state attorneys did not respond. Here
enclosed and as the guards stood, when pee Wee stood,

(07:25):
our son, Christian went immediately to him and put out
his hand, and pee Wee, with his handcuffs, put out
his right hand, and he and Christian shook hands right
there at the hymn roids hearing. I was not concerned
for the safety of our son because he was handcuffed

(07:47):
and those men were standing right with him. And Pee
Wee was my acquaintance. I had his trust. I trusted him,
he trusted me. We did thanks for each other. Little
should I know, of course, two weeks after the court appearance,

(08:08):
Jim visited Peewee in prison. He was ready to write
down new stories Pee Wee would share that day and
without the usual good morning, Mr Jim, How are you doing?
How was it drive? He said, did you hear the news?
Did you hear the news? And I said what news?
Pee Wee? He said, we won? We want I said

(08:30):
what did we win? He said we'd be on the
hemorrhoids trial. I said we did. I said what did
we get? He said we got one dollar and a
large tube of preparation. Age. Two men, a literary professor

(08:51):
and a mass murderer, had established a comfortable relationship, and
the bond extended to their families. Young Christian would exchange
letters with Peewee. It was a terrific story to share
with his classmates. How many of them personally knew a murderer,
never mind the most famous mass murderer in state history.

(09:11):
He just loved the fact that he could write a
letter to a friend in that prison. So after the
hemorrhoid hearing, a package arrives and it's for Christian baby,
and you can tell its hand wrapped, its hand marked,
is very elaborately and carefully done. And Christian opened it
and it was a hat. It was the scariest, strangest, weirdest,

(09:40):
most frightening thing I've seen. It had a floppy Denham
brim that he clearly had cut out of some blue
jeans in prison. It had horns stuffed horns like devil
horns on top, but the tips were painted red like
blood on the hips. It was probably red fingernail polish

(10:02):
because it was paint. And it had a crown that
had been hand stitched, and you could see the hand
stitching because it wasn't the same color as the fabric anywhere.
But it was done carefully and intentionally and graphically to
portray this image. This was made by Beewee by hand

(10:23):
in prison, and Christian thought was the best thing he
had ever seen. Red tipped bullhorns atop of crown, denim,
floppy hat sewn with prison thread and a needle. It's
a maccab image with a dark humor to it, a
sort of thanks for your supports gift from a mass murderer.

(10:46):
Here's his brother Mark talking about the new cap. I'll
never forget him showing it to me, proudly Christian, that is.
And I wanted to share in his enthusiasm, but I
was not enthused. I thought it was a bad idea.
We were fascinated too, but we were horrified too, because

(11:11):
you have to see it to understand the mix of emotions.
It was stunning. We still have it. It's just an
important symbol of this man, the conflated contrasting images and
behavior and emotions and mix of this man. And I
think Jim's position on he should have been studied is

(11:33):
exactly right. The Baby family went to Peewee's trial out
of curiosity and to offer support. They did favors for
him as well. Jim and I picked up his mother
and his sister Carol, and Donny, his son and took

(11:53):
them for a day trip to Myrtle Beach. I'm not
sure his mother had ever been to the beach, so
we sat out on the sand and hello picnic. Jim
showed other kindestures towards Peewee's family, like meeting Peewee's sister
for lunch or taking his mom to prison for a visit.
These folks had done no wrong, and Jim treated them respectfully.

(12:17):
But sooner or later you were bound to encounter the
face of Peewee's Mr. Hyde. Jim came across this dark
side of Peewee when he delayed a simple request. He
asked me what I deliver a radio to his son

(12:40):
Donnie through his mother, who knew I was bringing it,
and Donnie didn't because it was a surprise. And I said,
of course, and pee Wee showed it to me, and
he said, this is a gift for my son, Donnie,
and if you will take it to him, I'll be
very grateful. When I left Columbia to drive back to

(13:00):
Myrtle Beach, Prospect is just a little off the beaten bath,
and as I approached Prospect, I realized I was running late.
I had a speaking engagement that night about the book,
and I didn't want to be late, so I decided, oh,
I'll take it back whenever I can. That next Sunday morning,

(13:23):
Christian answers the phone and he talks briefly, not long.
I didn't hear it. Christian comes to me and said, Dad,
it's Peewee. But he really sounds weird. So I go
to the phone and I say hello, Peewee, and this

(13:43):
very high voice says this Mr Jim Batty. And that
was the only time that he ever called me Mr
Jim Beatty. It was always Mr Jim, never Mr Batty,
never anything else. H He said, it's just supposed to
the baby. I said, of course, Pete. Hello, it's Jim.

(14:05):
How are you? He said, did I have occasion to
give you a radio last Wednesday to take to my
son by way of my mother's house in Prospect? I said,
you certainly did, pee Wee. Please let me apologize. I said,
I am so sorry that I didn't do that. He said,

(14:27):
when do you think you might be able to deliver that?
I said, as I turned a wider shade of pail,
I said this afternoon, Peelee. He said, can I tell
my mother that it will be there today. I said,
you certainly may, he said, thank you. Click. That ominous

(15:06):
phone call for Peewee sent chills down Jim batty spine.
Pictures of grizzly autopsy photos flashed through his mind. The
tone of Peewee's voice was most alarming. That same voice
was the voice I heard when he talked about Dennis Bellamy,

(15:29):
the same voice and I heard later on when you
talked about Tyner, the same voice that he talked about
Avery Howard. And I realized that I had violated the code,
and that was serious, serious business. Jim and Anita Batty

(15:53):
had plenty of reasons to be concerned after the radio incident.
Peewee had always been transparent. Dur Ring his interviews about
how he viewed betrayal, he did say, my mother will
be expecting to radio. I knew and that I did
not want to be in that category of people that
didn't follow up on what pee Wee required and asked

(16:16):
them to do. Do not fail, Peewee Gaskins. Several people
in this story lost their lives after they betrayed him.
They were shot, stabbed, strangled, or drowned. Jim references a
code that Peewee followed expectations for people around him, expectations

(16:42):
that others should live by and that he would kill by.
Not formal, not sensible. Newspapers all over the Southeast printed
stories about the killer's code as a way to understand
a man who murdered so many. These mass murderers are

(17:03):
easier to comprehend, to categorize, to contain, if we're able
to put labels on their behaviors. But with Gaskins, there
was no firm sense of why, no easy justification or psychologizing,
no clear modus operandi. He didn't kill couples parked in

(17:23):
cars at night, or bury his victims under his house.
He didn't present a sexual fetish or chop people up
and put their body parts in his freezer. There is evidence, though,
that Gaskins had his own strictly enforced, twisted sense of morals.

(17:45):
The penalty for violating his morality could be death. Holly Gatling,
Margaret O'Shea, and Cecil Chandler all spent significant time with
Peewee Story and help shed light on him as a killer.
I'll tell you what he told me one time. You
know that some of his phrases stick in my mind.

(18:07):
He said, I never killed nobody that didn't need killing.
Not a lot surprises me about what people are capable
of doing. At that point in my life, I hadn't
written about many many others who had done grisly things.
People called him a serial killer, but unlike most, he

(18:29):
didn't have an m O. He didn't have a trigger
or desire to be met that figured into all of
his killings. This is a kind of person. You wonder
what's going through his mind. Was he really crazy or
just somebody wanted to kill somebody. Of the eleven people

(18:51):
killed so far in our story, seven were by hand, drowned, beaten,
or stabbed with the campbell soup knife. Physical violence from
a man who was just over five ft tall and
weighed a hundred and thirty pounds. Here's Jim pee Wee
was thirteen years lad. He established himself early in the

(19:17):
industrial school there in France. He was the smallest in
the group, but he was the quickest. He was the fastest.
He attacked two of the different guards, put them both
in the hospital. So he became the big man early,
even at the reform school. And this was a pattern
for Peewee. This is an m O established who's in charge.

(19:43):
The potential for violence goes a long way in crowd control,
and pee Wee used it over those people around him.
It held them in check, got them to meet his expectations.
One of the violations to Peewee's twisted ethics was white
should not mix with blacks, especially when it came to sex.

(20:05):
Gaskins thought people had their place and that whites and
blacks had no place together, and he was willing to
go as far as murder to enforce his expectations, and
pee Wee felt no guilt when discussing his murders. The
only time that Gaskins came close to remorse was when

(20:25):
he talked to Jim Batty about Johnny Knight. Pee Wee
talked to me about what a shame it was that
John Henry Knight had to die. He didn't say I
killed him and I'm sorry. He's emple said it was
a shame that John Henry Knight had to die. It's

(20:46):
a shame Johnny Knight had to die. There's a detached,
passive voice in that sentence that hides the action of
the murder, as if Johnny just died on his own.
It's a shame. Johnny Knight had to die. This way
of speaking in the passive voice removes the horror that

(21:07):
actually took place. We know that Gaskins was a brutal killer,
and in his view, none deserved his wrath more than
those white folks who mixed with black folks, or black
folks who destroyed the lives of decent white folks. Peeley
had a bitter hatred for all black people, felt their inferiority,

(21:32):
did not trust them, did not want them around him,
did not want them to exist. He was that severe
in his racism. So when Loreene Dempsey had a child,
Michelle Robin Dempsey was born. When he sees this baby
and can tell obviously this is a black baby, he

(21:54):
was utterly infuriated. He felt betrayed. He fell that the
person he had taken in and helped so many years ago,
and so thoroughly he hated this, and that was the
fruition of the manifestation of his harsh racism. Peewee drowned

(22:17):
Dereen Dempsey because she got pregnant by a black man.
He then drowned her two year old baby for being
of mixed race to save her from what he saw
as a certain life of misery, precisely because she was
by racial To satisfy his sense of ethics, Gascons also
poisoned Clyde Dix and dumped her body unceremoniously on the

(22:41):
side of the road for apparently selling drugs to his
niece Patricia and her friend Janice Allsbrook. And of course
we can't forget that Rudolph Shiner was a black man
who violated the worst of the code by killing a
white man. Will Moon and Mrs Moon Uh Peewee told me,

(23:03):
as Rudolph Tyner walked in the walkway one story above us,
he said, there he is. He said, I could kill
him right now if I had my thirty thirty And
as pee Wee told me several times, lots of people
don't deserve to live, and Rudolph Tyner was one of those.

(23:25):
Peewee sense of ethics also penalized those who acted poorly
in front of children. One of the main items in
Peewee's code was that he did not allow anyone to curse,
or drink or misbehave in any way around the children,
especially the children that he had in his house. The

(23:50):
man who strangled his niece drowned a baby and raped
teenage girls. Was also their fearsome protector. Jim and To
saw this paradox and contradiction in pee Wee. He never cursed,
No explicit language allowed. Yes, he piste a whipped a
man within an inch of his life, but he never

(24:12):
used profanity while doing so. But one of his enemies
violated this code. His hatred for Dennis Bellamy began with
Bellamy's behavior in front of the children that were in
his house. He deeply resented this. Tom Henderson loved to
ask Peewee, you didn't let them your anchor cuss in

(24:36):
front of the children, and pe said absolutely not. He
said they weren't going to custom drinking with my kids.
So he had this code that he demanded to be followed,
and he himself, in my presence, he never once used
any profanity. Through all of those parties at his trailer,
rock and roll blaring on the radio, beers and barbecue

(24:59):
for everyone. People were still expected to abide by his rules,
and one of Pewee's golden rules was no jowing, no
talking about his crimes. Some of those in Peewee circle
were complicit in his various crimes if they threatened to
talk about any of Gascon's suspected murders or stealing dealings.

(25:22):
The penalty was death. Disloyalty was unacceptable. Diane Bellamy was
killed after she threatened to tell police about an underaged
girl having sex at Pewee's home. Avery Howard was taken
out when he suggested Diane knew about one of his murders.

(25:43):
Johnny Sellers was murdered after he threatened belt Needy, saying
he was going to rat him in Peewee out unless
he was paid. And Jesse Judy was killed as a
witness to her boyfriend's murder, not to mention she had
left Peewee for another man. The question of loyalty entered

(26:03):
in new relationship p we had with Jesse Judy, and
although he allowed Johnny and Jesse to set up housekeeping,
he deeply resented it. So I do think that that
entered in his mind when he killed Jesse Judy. Jim
Batty was well aware of Peewee's codes, and when pee
Wee asked you to do something, you did it. So

(26:26):
after Jim delayed delivering a radio to Peewee's son, the
civility that Peewee had once extended to Jim was noticeably strained.
Jim was nervous. But Jim wasn't like the others. He
wasn't in Peewee's crew. He wasn't threatening to turn state's evidence.
He was just a man who forgot to deliver a

(26:48):
surprise gift to Peewee's only son. Could he too go
from friend to foe so quickly? He said, I never
killed nobody that didn't ain't killing you know. He just
killed whatever he wanted to when he wanted to. He

(27:26):
just killed whoever he wanted to when he wanted to.
Cecil Chandler's quote speaks to the brutal reality of living
in Peewee gascon Circle during all of his killings. There
were two separate trials in which Peewee was convicted of
murder for hire. Silas Barnwell Yates was the first. He

(27:49):
was a forty four year old local farmer who did
very well growing and selling tobacco on his farm near Sumter,
South Carolina. His farm and his house were laws by
any standard, but he was recently separated from his wife
and his accommodations had changed. Barna Yates was living in
a trailer because they'd separated. He certainly could have afforded

(28:13):
a house or another place to live, but he was
in his own trailer on his property. Barnwell started a
relationship with Susanne Kippers, who was fifteen years younger than
he was. He lavished her with gifts and attention, all
of the according and taking her out to eat and
all of that business. He brought her dotson Z beautiful horse,

(28:38):
saddles all of this stuff. I think he had all
the money that he could spend with his money clip
with hundreds of dollars in it all the time, because
I called him a gentleman farmer, but he got mixed
up with the wrong bunch. By nine seventy four, though
Susanne was apparently done with her gentleman farmer. She left

(29:00):
him and began a lengthy battle over those gifts. Just
divorced and perhaps still sore from the breakup, Barnwell found
himself estranged from another woman. She took her gifts and
he wanted them back. The issues of ownership over the car,
the horse, and jewelry went into a lengthy court battle,

(29:23):
and those issues were never resolved. While she was fighting Barnwell,
Suzanne began a relationship with John Owens. She was twenty nine,
he was twenty two. She was a spelt young woman
and he was from a well to do family. But
John Owens was naive compared to the sexy and sexually

(29:45):
experienced Suzanne, and since she could not let go over
anger towards Barnwell Yates, Suzanne asked her knubou to do
something about her troubles. He hired attorneys tried to put
legal pressure on him, all for not the horse and
the dots and z were still in Barnwell's name so
he was able to properly claim those in repossession. She

(30:09):
was infuriated and suggested John Owens get a guy to
scare Barnwell Yates into giving up the fight for the
stolen presence. She was going to get back the horse
and car anyway she could. Suzanne Kipper knew a man
named John Powell, known as ted Lam, who she thought
would be able to help. Ted Lam was an associate

(30:31):
of pee Wee Gaskins and must have known that he
was just the kind of guy to hire in this
type of situation. So we introduced Suzanne and John to
pee Wee. The four concocted a plan to scare Barnwell Yates,
but that plan somehow turned into murder. On February twelfth,

(30:52):
pee Wee drove with ted Lam, Suzanne, and John Owens
to Barnwell's trailer. Pee Wee said that someone went to
Mary Yates's trailer and knocked on the door and as
Marno Yates to come out and for some reason to
speak with whoever was supposed to be outside, and he said,

(31:13):
I don't have time to be bothered with you. Leave
me alone. At that Peewee and ted Lum got out
of Peewee's car and took matters into their own hands.
And it was then they went in and forced him
out and put him in the trunk of the car

(31:34):
and took him away. Court testimony reveals that Peewee handcuffed
Barnwell and put him in the trunk of the car. Apparently,
Suzanne started begging them not to kill her former lover,
who was in the trunk, praying and begging for his life.
There's no turning back now. Peewee told them Barnwell had
seen him and could turn him in, and Peewee was

(31:56):
not interested in going back to jail. Killing him was
the logical into the plan, plus he was hired to
do a job. They drove to Peewee's field near Prospect.
Peewee and ted Lum took Barnwell from the trunk and
led him into the dark field. Suzanne and John Owens

(32:18):
were told to remain in the car. They waited for
a gunshot. None came. They were startled a while later
when Peewee suddenly opened the car door, insisting they follow
him to see the body. They didn't need to see him,
they insisted, but Peewee demanded that they look at the

(32:38):
dead body. When they got to barnwell Yates, they saw
his throat was covered in blood. Peewee and ted Lum
dragged the body into a shallow grave and covered it
with some dirt and underbrush. Susanne and John Owens were
driven back to their own car and told never to
mention the murder to anyone, or they too would be killed.

(33:00):
Pe We also reminded them that they were now accessories
to murder. He told them, we're all in this together now.
Pee We mentioned this killing to me because he wanted
to show me the toughness of his karate chop hand.

(33:20):
And he said, I used his hand to break his windpipe.
He said, that's how Barwell Yates died. I killed him.
And then when solicitors and other people later on tried
to say he was killed another way he was shot,
he said that may have happened after I was there,
But I killed Barbell Yates with my karate shop. He said.

(33:43):
I hit the iron bar on the side of my
bed a hundred times as hard as I can, every
night so that my hand will be tough enough for
the karate shop. And he would always put it out
and say he'd feel that, and sometimes I did. Then
it was like a rock. It was the same hand
that young Christian baby reached out to shake at the

(34:03):
hemorrhoid trial, the same hand that later made the blood
tip bullhorn denim hat, the same one that held during
Dempsey and her toddler underwater. Jim and Peewee rarely talked
about his murders directly. Jim says he wasn't overly interested
in the vivid descriptions styled like in Cold Blood, a

(34:26):
book he taught numerous times in his classes at Coastal
Carolina University. They talked about Barnwell Yates only as a
means for talking about Peewee's hardened fist and karate chop.
The result of that blow to his throat led to
asphyxiation for poor Barnwell. When police discovered the body, it

(34:48):
was so badly decomposed that the coroner could not tell
if his throat had been cut or not. And exactly
how authorities got to that body is itself its own
incredible tale. One year after his arrest for the eight
bodies in his burial field, after his conviction for murdering

(35:10):
Dennis Bellamy, Peewee Gaskins was ready to make a deal
to give up another body. He hadn't yet made his
plea deal, and the death penalty was currently illegal, so
he knew the most he get for this new body
was another life sentence if they could prove he was
the murderer. This is when Peewee told authorities to look

(35:31):
for Patricia Allsbrook under a cement slab. Police ended up
finding her in a septic tank. Now police thought he
could be trusted for even more information, Peewee pledged to
give up Barnwell yates. Up to this point, police said

(35:51):
only Suzanne and John Owens as suspects. She had been
in a relationship with him and was in court battles
with him when he disappeared. Police tried to question the
newly married couple about Barnwell's disappearance. They were uncooperative and
without a body or evidence of any kind, they could
not bring any charges. So when shackles and cuffs, Peewee

(36:16):
was taken out of prison and lead investigators to Barnwell
yates body. Here's Florence County Sheriff Billy Barnes on a
television news report the evening they found the body and
over in the field on this side of the road.
That's where Barnwell Yates's body was found. Barn was lured

(36:39):
out of his trailer, picked up by Pee Williams, a
couple other people, put in the trunk of a car
brought after this field where he was killed and buried.
They found the body early afternoon and they identified the body,
and that night was when they actually arrested John Owens
and Susanne Owens. Of it words, he cooperated. He said

(37:03):
to me several times, I just got to keep up
my end of the bargain, which I find so ironic,
but that's exactly what he said, what he felt, and
he wanted it done. He liked my Karen the radio
about Jay's son. I told him I was gonna do it.
He wants it done. Police quickly arrested ted Lan Powell

(37:25):
and charged all of them for Barnwell Yates murder. In
exchange for this revelation, Peewee was given a conjugal visit
with his wife, Donna Carulo. Peewee's attorney later wrote that
all parties involved agreed that if Donna was a willing
participant and was lawfully his wife, that they were doing

(37:48):
nothing immoral or illegal, but there were stipulations. Quote. If
there is any indication that she is being threatened or
forced in any way, it's over. If you have thoughts
about escaping, I will shoot you, and I've told my
men to shoot you in that event. If you refuse
to let her leave or hold her hostage, we will

(38:12):
consider that she is a part of the conspiracy and
we will not be responsible for what happens to her
in doing what we need to do to capture or
kill you. Do you understand end quote? Pe We must
have understood, because he got a two hour visit with Donna.
They were given a cot near a small desk in

(38:33):
a lamp in the corner of a room at the prison,
behind a painter's dropcloth. I think that that kind of
bargaining probably went on all the time. She willingly went
there and stayed with him for the two hours, and
the police officers at the far end of the room,
and they were in an enclosed area in one corner.

(38:56):
I didn't get the feeling at all that Donna was
at least bit hesitant. In fact, I think that she
was glad to go and see him and be with
him for two hours. That was my impression. I said
the peewee pewee, will you please with the visit, and
he said, let me put it to you this one

(39:18):
for two hours. I put it to her. By God,
I have to laugh out loud every time I think
of Pee Wee and his conjugal visit. So pee Wee
was in prison on a life sentence for killing Dennis Bellamy.
He was awaiting all sorts of rulings and hearings about

(39:39):
the death penalty, and he gave up barnwell Yates for
a two hour conjugal visit with his wife Donna. He
was near agreeing to the plea deal for eight murders
as a means of avoiding the electric chair. He held
some sort of hope that he'd be eligible for parole
at some point. And giving up Barnwell Yates, Oh pee

(40:00):
Wee joined three other defendants in a murder trial. The
trial drew the whole state's attention. Peewee was a household
name all over South Carolina in nineteen seventy seven, and
he was on trial with Susanne Owens, John Owens, and
Ted Lum Powell. We're all in this together, pee Wee

(40:23):
had told them the night he killed Barnwell Yates. John
Owens was called to testify as the state's first witness.
He had turned state's evidence. No more than thirty minutes
into his testimony, the defense asked for a recess, during
which they agreed to plead deals for John Suzanne and

(40:45):
Ted lam It was all Peewee, John Owens declared on
the stand. Prosecution said Peewee was paid around two thousand
dollars for the murder. When pee Wee was called to
the stand, he was red hot from the pack of
loyalty shown by the co defendants. The courtroom was silent.

(41:05):
Pee Wee had everyone's attention and he let loose. Determined
to get back at John Owens, he tried to establish
his trust with the jury by blurting out several other
murders he committed and where they could find the bodies.
So deep was his disrespect that he was willing to

(41:26):
risk potential further trials and sentencing to defend his honor.
They killed Barnwell, I had nothing to do with it,
he told the jury. He told them where he had
seen Clyde Dick's dead body. This is also the moment
when he claimed he killed Peg cutno pee. We claimed

(41:50):
several other high profile, unresolved murders in South Carolina, but
no connection was ever made that he actually killed them.
On Wednesday, April, it took a jury fifty eight minutes
to convict him of murdering Silas Barnwell Yates. John Owens

(42:13):
pled guilty to accessory after the fact of murder and
received a maximum ten year sentence. Suzanne Kipper Owens pled
guilty to accessory before the fact on condition the state
would not oppose her parole hearing in ten years and
that she'd be given some type of secretarial work while
in prison. John Tedlin Powell pled guilty to murder on

(42:39):
condition the state would not oppose his parole hearing in
ten years. At Peewee Sentencing Circuit Court, Judge Dan Laney
gave him another life sentence and said, I just don't
understand how a human being can take as many lives
as you have. Don't you feel any thing? You must

(43:01):
not believe in God. This trial would never have happened
had it not been for the conjugal visit with his wife,
Donna Carulo, and as the result of another conjugal visit,
Pee Wee took investigators to find the missing girl Kim
Gilkins pee Wee Gaskins. Was Not My Friend is a

(43:29):
joint production from I Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures, produced
and hosted by Jeff Keeping. Executive producers are Courtney DeFries
and Noel Brown. Written by Jim Roberts, Courtney DeFries and
Terry James, Edit, mix and sound design by Jeremiah Kolani Prescott.
Music composed by Diamond Street Productions, Spencer garn and Ian Newberry.
Special thanks to Jim and Anita Baby. Additional thanks to

(43:52):
the University of South Carolina, Moving Image Research Collections and
the University of South Carolina,