May 22, 2024 • 30 mins
You asked. We answered. Shane and Marty dive deep on a variety of equipment and fitting related topics including their two-driver setup, the power of the trajectory tuning hosel, finding the right swingweight, and what type of player would benefit from an 'E' grind.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The guys from Ping.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters.
I just love that I can hit any shot I
kind of want.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back to the Ping proven Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.
That is Marty Jerts, and we don't have a guest today. Marty,
you know what that means.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We get to deep dive on some technical stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We got some q and a's. We sent a thing
out on social media and said, you know, if you
have questions for us about equipment or some of the
stuff we talked about on the podcast, answer, We'll do
it again in a few months, So keep an eye
out on socials for that. The first question that was
on Facebook from Brian I liked because I think you
and I are now in this camp together.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
It says, I.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Don't know if it was talking about you, Marty. Play
two drivers, Please descript, Please describe the differences in the drivers.
We now play two drivers in our bag and I've
been doing it now for a couple of months. I'll
let you start on terms of the differences in your drivers.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, no, it's pretty fun. I mean one is to
maximize distance for the most part. So it's forty five
and three quarters inches, and that's my gamer like you know,
full max sen driver. And then I was looking at
data Shane. I think we talked about on the pod
which which showed that for players who hit the ball
three hundred yards or further, you hit your three wood
(01:13):
off the tee on average about ninety percent of the time.
And for my own personal courses I played back home
in Arizona, it's even a little bit higher, like ninety
five percent of the time I hit off the t
So I built a twelve degree G four to thirty max.
Put it in the is your first one?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Is your first one a ten k?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It's ten k your gamer's a ten ten K ten
point five in the big minus keeps the face a
little bit open, built to maximize distance. Then you know,
we're kind of calling this the Thriver three wood driver
like that. So twelve degree max in the flat dot
position tour two point zero blacks seventy five x yeah,
(01:51):
forty three inches, OK. And I just it's not built
to maximize distance. It's because I hit it off the
t I t at really low and just kind of
chip it down there in It's kind of like an
anti anxiety club for me. We built yours pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Almost the exact same. I mean, I was gonna say
forty three. It's twelve degrees.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's funny with the club I play in Connecticut. The
first part part five you play, you kind of send
it over the trees and if you have to get
one to be able to go for in two because
there's water short of the green. First time I had
this second driver that would you call it the Thriver Drivers.
The first time I had the Thriver in the bag,
I hit a good one over the trees, but it's
a downhill lie, so the balls kind of sitting sitting
(02:30):
kind of.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Above your feet.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're kind of below it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I pulled the twelve degree out. I was like,
let's just see, let's see if I can hit this shot,
which is tough. And I hit a good shot and
hit it one of the green side bunkers and got
it up and down for Birdie, And I told myself,
if you can hit it here, you could kind of
hit it anywhere. And it's a it's such a great club.
You can tee it lowep and kind of squeeze it
out there. I've also heard it that I can hit it.
I can tee it a little higher and it promotes
(02:53):
my draw absolutely, which I don't love hitting, so it's
an easier club for me to draw.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, totally. So yeah, you can use it. It just
has a lot of diversity to it. I think the
fun thing for the listener to tease out from this
is that your priority in your bag should be built
based on how you know how far you hit it.
This is one of those really cool insights from big data,
because without big data, we couldn't have answered this question.
And so I think it's something it's not for. It's
(03:20):
not if you don't drive the ball let's say two
seventy or further, it's probably not the right thing to
consider because you need to hit your three wood off
the ground a lot, whether it's a long part three
second shine to part four, second shine to part five.
But the longer you hit it, the less you should
prioritize three with off the ground because part fives I'm
hitting you know, three iron in four long irons in
(03:41):
things of that nature and I have a lot of
T balls. I need to hit that like two seventy five,
two eighty where my a big driver, the dispersion is
going to be a lot tighter than playing the three
wood in that scenario.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I heard players of the Masters that were putting in
a second drive around because again some of the whole
squeeze in at three fifty three twenty. So you're seeing
even tour guys do this as well. I think this
is gonna be the next thing you think about. The
iteration through the bag. Seven wood was hot a couple
of years ago, and I know a lot of players
are still playing at the driving iron was really hot
a few years ago. It feels like the thriver, if
(04:14):
you will is thing.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, definitely out here on tour. It's kind of like, uh,
you know you can you can swap it out like Augusta.
There's literally probably no three wood shots, right, you know,
like a two if you get it down there, you're
gonna hit an iron or something.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Kind of the only spot ten t but maybe you can.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's the one where you can take the thriver and
you get a little draw spin on you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You need to like, you need to really like get
that dialed in to your repertoire.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That's the two drivers, and again just something to play with.
I mean, I love the added loft. If I'm not
driving a grade, I'll use it off the tee, even
on holes I typically go with the gamers. So yeah,
it's versatile and I love that. Cameron on X we.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Call it ex or Twitter. Yeah, it X former do it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Cameron said, how does ping help people identify what swingweight
is best for them?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's a great question. I mean it's very fun at
ping because all of our clubs have, you know, either
CTP weights or CG shifters. We do custom weighting, so
we have the ability that allows us to accommodate different
shafts and lengths, but it also helps us fit for
the right swingwaight. So a good general rule of thumb
is a heavier swingweight is going to for the right
handed golfer promote a more open face to path or
(05:24):
a little right bias right. So let's say in a driver,
you got the CG shifter that can move the left
right a lot like it will change it like ten yards.
But if you go a couple swingweight points heavier, that
can bias your left right dispersion, say three or four
yards more to the right, or a good way to
think about is eliminate the left side a little bit,
(05:45):
so it's gonna change your face to path. You can
use to change that. Now you want to be a
little bit careful going too far. You don't want to
go like super light swingweight or super heavy because the
other impact it has it changes your face to path. Well,
it also changes your low point consistency. So if you
get a little too light in the irons, it can
help you turn it over, but you might be a
(06:07):
little erratic in finding the ground. You might thin one,
you might fat one, things of that nature. So there's
a little iterative process there. And say irons where your
your low point control is more important than a driver.
A driver of optimizing the swing weight to produce a
very consistent low point, right, very consistent low point. And
(06:28):
then we can use that a little bit to eliminate
a pull or a fade and kind of dial that in.
But swing weight should be used is a lever not
as big as say the lying goal or the CG shifter.
It's important to keep that in mind, so you don't
want to use swing weight as the first thing to
go to to tweak your left right dispersion.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Are you are you married to a swing weight? So
like if you're like, what are you do? You know
what you are?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, my irons are D three. I'm playing them a
little bit heavier now, partly because I want to eliminate
that left miss with some technique changes in my driver's
D six, which is also pretty So if you switched
irons or you transition to another set irons with that change, yes, okay, yeah,
so it would Now if I go hit irons that
are D one or D two, now I will pull them,
(07:13):
even with the same specs, same line goal, same shaft,
I'll pull them, and I'll be a little erratic in
my low point. Interesting, Yeah, so it won't find the
centerness of contact a little bit. But you know, I
think the big thing with swing weight is is don't
go too far, like a couple points here and there.
It's not one of those things you want to go
erratically heavy or erratically light in some of that nature. Now,
(07:34):
the other way to use swing weight in a driver
is there's an optimal headweight, okay, and swing weight is
the you know, the swing weight is kind of the
proxy for that which maximizes distance for an individual golfer.
So that's something else to play with. Some of our
fitters out there have these swingweight kits and they can
go play around with and try a driver at D
three and D five. Again, it's a lever to kind
(07:57):
of fine tune your left right, but be careful with
it with low point control on your irons.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know, I was thinking about the driver in terms
of this because you know, you and I talk a
lot about fitting and getting fit for the right club,
and you think about loft being an option, you think
about shaft, you think about length in terms of the driver.
I know you talk a lot about that in swing
weight as well as swingweight down the list in terms
of things people should be thinking about when they're trying
to tweak their gamer.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, it is, it is. I think a good way is, like,
let's say somebody's between you put the CG shifter on
the driver in the draw and you're overdrawing it, or
you have that little miss to the left. You put
it back in the in the neutral and it's kind
of a little right bias. Well, what's your option? You
can play around with the sleeve to kind of dial
that in, Or you can play around with the swingweight
and just bias the swing weight a little bit and
(08:42):
it's totally fine. Let's say you get fit with a
driver our stocks D three and you're like, oh, I
just want to barely eliminate that left miss. Just order
the driver at D four. It's one of those things
you can just use to kind of hedge a miss tendency.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
See, I mean there's just so many options, it's crazy.
Thomas said, can you go through the different settings on
the driver loft sleeve and their effects on ball flight?
So US amters can use that to our advantage.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh I love that question. So yeah, trajectory tuning sleeve.
We have eight positions the drivers out in the in
the stores, and in most settings they're going to come
in our default position, which has a dot to it.
We call it the dot position. And then we have
a small minus in a big minus, and then or
a small minus in a big minus, a small plus
(09:26):
in a big plus. Those the small plus is going
to add one degree of loft.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And by the way, just so people that are listening,
when you unscrew the driver and you take it off
it tells you this on the sleeve. Yes, so outside
of just the dots and the pluses the minuses, it'll
actually tell you once you take it off what it's
actually doing lostwise.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yes, and we did that on purpose, so you can see. Okay,
this is how much the loft is changing. So we
have five marked positions. Then we actually have three. It's
kind of like going to in and out. You know
the secret menu get animal style pain. Yeah, you get
the secret menus. So we have three secret menu options
we'll talk about. But we have a a small minus
and a big minus, and that changed the loft by
one degree and one point five. Now this is important
(10:07):
because you can use loft to change your launch and spin.
So if you go down, for every one degree you
change your driver loft, you will tweak your launch by
about zero point six degrees. Okay, so it's not one
to one, it's about six tenths and you change your
spin by about two hundred and fifty RPMs. So this
is a really good way. Let's say in the old days,
before the sleeve, you'd either have to go from a
(10:27):
nine to ten point five, right, your optimal could be
right in between and you're stuck. Now it's a way
to get super dialed with your launch conditions to unlock distance.
So or you can use the big plus and the
big minus position. Those change the the loft by plus
or minus one point five degrees. Now if you go
to the secret menu option shamee those. We have a
(10:49):
flat dot position and that changes the sleeve from the
more upright position and it goes we have a one
point five degrees of tilt, but you use flip at
all all the way around and you go three degrees flat.
So we have a flat dot position. This is like
what I play my Thriver and I think we build
years also, and that'll make the That'll make the driver
(11:10):
three degrees flatter, which can slightly open the face. It
can change centeredness of contact for a player look a
little bit different if you're playing a longer length. This
is a great option. We've had some players do that
on tour. They're playing at forty six inch drivers go
in the flat dot position. So it's a great option
to kind of tune your centeredness of contact and tweak
your left right bias to go in those flatter positions.
(11:31):
So we have a flat dot. Then we have a
secret menu, small minus, secret menu big minus, which are
one degree stronger and weaker, also about two and a half,
about two degrees flatter.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Is there like a chart online or anything people could
dive into that tell you all this stuff?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Absolutely. On our website you can see all the positions,
and then our fitters out there in ping Co Pilot
we have all kinds of charts which show all the
different positions.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, by the way, well, we'll tweet that out when
the episode comes out of well, so you have an
idea that all right, So we're moving from X to Instagram.
Most comments on Instagram not worthy of putting on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
These are the good ones that we pulled.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
By the way, this says approach to blended iron sets,
where to consider the transition point and how to mix
precision and distance models. So basically, when you're blending the
iron set, when do you go from blueprint beyond or
when do you kind of mix the blueprints?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Like how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah? I think a good way to think about our
iron models is you have they we have the models
that you the player bring the distance to the table.
This is I two thirty blueprint s blueprint t right right,
And then we have some great, really cool tools to
be able to figure out where you blend those because
two thirty goes higher Blueprint T, Blueprint S goes kind
(12:46):
of medium height, Blueprint T goes a little bit lower.
So we have some great tools in ping co Pilot
which can set, which can look at your land angle,
and we have some really cool algorithms in there that
are kind of vetted by how our tour players lend
their sets. Okay, and it says, okay, let's look at
the land angle, and when the land angle starts to
get a little shallow for that player's clubhead speed, let's
(13:09):
bump them up with an iron model, you know, with
their If they're in Blueprint T, we'll go to blueprint S.
If they're in blueprint S, we'll go to I two thirty.
That's a great way to blend our precision irons. But
then we have distance irons, and a good one to
blend over there is like our I five thirty right,
that's where the clubhead is built more like a metal wood.
The face flex is more you're gonna get more ball speed,
more distance out of it. I think a good way
(13:30):
is where you're iron your your gapping starts to bunch.
And again we have some great predictive algorithms in Pink
Copilot which can help determine when where that happens exactly.
But let's say you're a player. You you get your
set and you you start to hit your five iron
and your six iron or your four iron and your
five iron too close together from a carry distance standpoint,
(13:51):
that's where it's time to start looking at a set
that infuses more distance, whether that's I five thirty G
four to thirty G seven thirty.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Didn't saw hit the Goala not too long ago. He
had two three irons in the bag or two four
irons in the back right, But they were just different
sets absolutely, So they obviously fluid flew different they they
they had different trajectory stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, and I personally do that. I play an I
five thirty four iron that is stronger lofted. Obviously we
have a different loft configure. It's just built more like
a crossover with our with our two or two point
zero shaft in it, and I play it. Then I
play an Eye or a Blueprint S four iron. Okay,
so I play two four irons, but my I five thirty.
It's I mean, this may sound crazy. It's my two
(14:29):
fifty club. I fly at two foot okay, yeah, but
my my blueprint SS I fly to thirty two thirty
two at stock.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
How many players, I mean, I know you don't know
the exact number, but how many tour players now do
you feel like play blended iron sets? Do you think
it's sixty seventy percent?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I think in our in our blueprints, I think
you know, Austin Ekro is a good example there, blueprint
T all the way down through the fore iron. They
switched to blueprint S three iron. So and then we
have other players that switch in the six seven iron.
You know this. I played the blueprint, uh, and the
pitching wedge only I like that waller pitching wedge. I
(15:04):
like the turf interaction a little knifeier, right, And that's
where I like, Especially in Arizona, it's kind of firm
conditions in the springtime, so you can you have some players,
I mean, I'm on one end, I split it barely,
you know, one one club over there. Uh, And then
you have others that are splitting it like at the
three iron, and then some split at six and seven
so blueprint in I two thirty they we built those
(15:24):
two be blended.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I mean that's what I have. I have the
I two thirty four iron and then have blueprint ass
you know the rest of the way. So I mean
I'm I'm in that category for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah. And we and we we can figure the lofts
so they're the same amongst all those sets. So you
get trajectory differences built based on the face structure design.
And then our blueprint t's are also by standard, they're
a little bit shorter length, which is more PGA two
or average in terms of the lengths, and that gives
a little lower trajectory as well.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So you've got two drivers, three sets of irons in
your bag, is that right?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yes, three sets of ice.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I mean like I would love, I would love to
talk to a random Paddy to get your bag at
a club and they're going four iron going on here.
So I mean, just real quick, just to kind of
answer the question, you feel like the transition points are
either at the three and four or a lot of
the time around that six or seven iron.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, uh yes, I mean, well it's it's highly varied.
It's highly varied on the PGA tour between Blueprint S,
Blueprint T and and I two thirty. But I think
to answer the question that that came in is when
when when do you transition to a uh maybe from
a to a forgiveness set. And our forgiveness sets are
generally those that are also going to infuse more distance,
(16:36):
and it's going to be where you're you're you start
to eat that bunching, where you start to get that bunching,
but you don't want to transition to a high lofted
fairy wood or hybrid. Again, I'm going to defer to
Pink co Pilot because we have this great tool called
the gapping app in there. Go ask your fitter to
put you on it, and that can help you decode
where exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You should do that smart stuff there for Marty. All right,
Carl says, you spoke on an early episode about all
Namic being able to do a yardage card. Is it
available to the public yet? This is something I used
at the USA World.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
That's right, Yeah, No, we we've made Shane one of
these for Cherry Hills.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
By the way, I just want you to know I've
sent I've probably had ten people ask me on Instagram
over the over the months to send a picture of
it because are so interested to send them a pick.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
It is sweet. We don't have it available for it
for our consumers yet, but stay tuned watch this space.
It is a super valuable tool. I mean, I think
it's uh, you know, the tour players kind of have
a sense for how much the wind's gonna affect their ball,
but they but unless you're out here doing it all day,
every day, it's hard to know exactly. You know. I
think a lot of people like, oh, it's a one
club wind or a two club wind, well on tour.
(17:40):
And this is what I've learned playing in the tour
events I've played in, is that you it's better to
play golf with like one number in mind. I'm gonna
play this shot one fifty six.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So I do a lot of plays like calculations. Okay,
you know I'm here at you know, sea level. It's
the temperatures this the wind's hurting, it's quartering, you know,
fifteen miles an hour, and I'm gonna hit my flighted trajector.
I do all these little calculations you can do quick,
and it helped you figure out how to do this.
When you play in the USAM in Denver when it
was hot, right, the ball's gonna fly far up there
(18:10):
in The wind effects it less, which is very interesting.
When I've played golf in Denver, I make that wind
sheet that you used, and the wind if you're playing
in until like a fifteen mile an hour headwind, it
impacts the ball literally half as much as at sea level.
So the wind effects us based on the air density.
So a lot of fun. But we will we are
(18:31):
working on this. Hope to pass on this solution to
the consumer soon.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Hang close, Carl, We'll get that to you soon. All right,
Jason said, what type of golfer does the E grind suit?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Ooh, E grind? So the E grind is our I
two grind right E stands for I two. It has
the dish in the soul, which is really good at
the pump, by the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Way, to look at I love messing around with that
in Phoenix.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Tons of character to it. And the big thing behind
the E grind is like the neck the hazzle transition.
So it looks like it has a lot of offset,
but the hozzle tapers in it gets really sharp. And
the secret to this, and you know, you got to
give credit to Carston for working with the tour players
back then on both the philosophy and then proving this out.
Is that in the bunker, right when that club enters
(19:14):
the sand, it acts like it has very very low bounce,
like very sharp. So the club right when it enters
the sand digs and it's very knifey. Right, It's like
when you put your hand out the window and you're
gonna turn it this way and this way and this
way and this way, and you get that kind of
sensation where the club's gonna go down in the sand
and dig at the very beginning. But then instantaneously all
(19:36):
that bounce on the trailing edge kicks in, and the
dish and the soul affects the fluid flow of the
sand going through the soul and kicks in. It helps
you scoot the club forward through the sand. So you
get this early dig lake glide, and it makes it
the ultimate bunker club. So the e grind is great
if you're looking for something that's going to be really
(19:57):
good out of the bunker. Let's tell you play a
golf course and you have a lot of bunker shots.
The course is very protected by bunkers. You're in the
bunker a lot. You need to have a lot of
green side versatility the downside of the E grind, where
it might not be as good for some players, which
we have. We have some some players that have used
the I TU for a long time. They don't hit
a lot of full shots with it. Okay, if your
priority is going to be green side performance, bunker performance,
(20:21):
and in manipulating the face a lot, that's the e grind.
Take a look at it.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So it's it's more around the green. So, like you said,
a lot of bunkers on the golf course, maybe not
the longest golf course in the world. You maybe want
to get it up and down, try to make birdie
on par fives, or get it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Up and down the safe par exactly so you would you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I mean, it sounds like what you're saying is it
could kind of go both ways. It could be a
low handicapped player that again is trying to make birdies
on the fives and get it up and down the
safe par and also a high handicap player that's playing
a golf course where they do have a lot of
bunkers and they're going to be in a lot of bumk.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, so a high handicap player is a good good
use case. A high handicapped player sometimes is trying to
figure out how to fill their bag right where they're
they Maybe they don't they don't need fourteen clubs with
all these types spacing because they don't hit it that far.
But how do you supplement an adjunct those fourteen clubs?
One is one is a chipper, it's a great option
for short game performance. And two you might choose to
(21:10):
play two sixty degrees or two fifty eight degrees, one
that you're gonna use for full shots, basic chipping, and
one that's the ultimate bunker club, the E grind. Then
let's put say you're a better player and you're really
good hitting. This is not me, but let's say you're
really good at hitting your fifty six degree or your
fifty four is approach shot from any yardage. I mean,
I can't. I have a hard time like dialing it down.
(21:32):
I'm gonna hit my sixty when it comes to that.
But that player can can use the e grind with
great green side performance.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Interesting, you now you're gonna have two sixty degrees in
your back to go along with all your other stuff.
Slight dog Leg by the way, that's the username says.
Why does ping offer so many counterbalance shaft options.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And what is the benefit of those?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh great question. Yeah, so we've done counterbalance shafts for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's kind of in our name of our alta CBCB
stands for counterbalance And the reason why we do it
is because you can make the head heavier. So when
you counterbalance the shaft and you don't change the headwight
and you kind of close your eyes and feel the club,
the club's going to feel lighter to you because the
center of gravity of the whole system, the whole club
(22:20):
moves closer to your hands, so it kind of tricks
your hands and your feel to feel lighter. So then
you can you can put weight back in the head
to get it back to feeling like the normal swing weight. Well,
the benefit now is that you can play a heavier head.
A heavier head at the same shaft length is really
good because a heavier head makes the driver more forgiving.
(22:42):
It allows you to have more moment of inertia. In
the design world, we're fighting for every one gram. So
if you can give the designer one gram. They're having
a good day. Okay, So we can make the heavier
head to boost the inertia. That's number one. And number two,
we can max better maximize the momentum and momentum is
mass times velocity. That's that physics principle. So if you
(23:03):
have more momentum, you can transfer more momentum to the ball.
This is called impulse momentum in the physics world to
get more ball speed. So you get this double whammy benefit,
higher inertia and more ball speed. That's why counterbalance shafts
are in our ecosystem and have kind of become popular
in the aftermarket world.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Marty.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I would listen to you talk about almost everything in
terms of technology.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Very very well. So that was very interesting. There you go.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, if you're not getting something out of this,
I don't know what you're doing that. There you go
a slight dog leg all right. Zach had a question
about questions to ask during a fitting, and you know,
I mean a fitting committiy. They can be driver gonna
be putting. I kind of wanted to focus on iron,
so questions maybe to ask as you're going through an
iron fitting, as pain continues to introduce more and more
sets of irons in their arsenal.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Oh yeah, that's a great question, I think hopefully, and
what we've been able to do on this podcast Chane
is to give the consumers a lot of questions to
go ask during the fitting and really empower them when
it comes to an iron fitting. I think I think
you need ask the fitter whether you know you need
distance infusion or whether you the player bringing the speed.
(24:07):
So that'll kind of put you into those buckets of
kind of put you into two bucket. It puts you
into two buckets. So that's number one. And then on
top of that, I think a big thing is are
you generating enough spin with your irons? Right? So we
use seven irons. Our AFS three D fitting club allows
you to capture ball speed launching spin with your seven iron,
whichever model you're going to hit, and you want that
(24:28):
fitter to really understand are you generating enough spin? Are
you getting and that's going to help you drive the
peak height in the landing angle. Again, we have great
tools in Pink Copilot which educate the fitter to understand
that for your specific ball speed, are you generating enough spin?
So you and I we can generate around seven thousand
(24:49):
spin with our seven iron because we're faster ball speed,
and a lot of people out there, consumers or fitters,
might think, oh, everyone should be able to generate a
thousand times the club number for spin or seven thousand
years and iron. That is not the case. If you
don't have the speed that we do, you might you
might be generating five five hundred rpm spin and that's
actually relatively high for your clubhead speed. So have the
(25:11):
fitter tell you about the spin. Use our tools in
ping co pilot, use our spin guide chart and determine
am I generating enough spin. It's very easy to go
into an iron fitting and and hit an iron and
it's gonna go far. But the spin is too low.
You might buy those irons. You're not gonna have the
land angle, You're gonna have gaping issues, You're gonna not
(25:32):
be able to stop it on the golf course. We
hear it all the time on the podcast where you
know our team here and our tour players are looking
to get more spin on the irons. Right, So spin
the irons enough and then where what is the longest
iron I should play? That's the next question, and again
we have some great tools a gapping app. If you
put in our fitter puts in your ball speed, launching
(25:54):
spin with your seven iron, you just say you're a
FS three D. They help you understand your spin rate.
You put that in and we'll be able to determine
and give you a really good starting point. Should should
the seven iron be the longest iron? Should you should play?
Should it be the six, should be the five? Should
it be the four? How to build that back? I
think those are two key questions to ask when you
go in for an iron fitting.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I think, And to the question from Zach, I mean,
I think something that's very important is asking, like you
telling stuff to the fitterbsolutely, how do you hit shots
the way you miss it? What do you not like
to see misses? And the other thing I would say
is to be honest to your golf game. I see
so many people go get fit or talk about fittings.
They're they're over swinging, they're swinging too hard. It's really
(26:34):
being honest to the way you play golf when you're
not around somebody, because again, anybody that sits there and
hits golf balls in front of somebody with a computer
next to them. It's gonna want to gain a couple
more yards on their seven iron, But you've got to
go take the clubs and play golf the way you
typically play golf. So I think the key to fitting
is to truly be honest to your own golf game.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, and I think a good tool for this if
we see it a lot. We love this when customers
come in and they have some stats tracking, So you know,
folks will come.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
In arcos or something like that.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, look what's happening in my arcos data. Check out
what's happening over the last three months. Here, look at
my mispercentage short with my irons, look at my left
right bias, and you can just those are really good
clues on a lingle issue, course, strategy issue, keeping the
player honest. We see it on tour where we've interviewed
(27:23):
players and they have statisticians feeding their practice plan of
what they're going to do for the week or or
our team will start. We'll look at the data, make
a decision with their coach and their team on maybe
an equipment change for a certain golf course or a
tendency they're seeing in their games. So these tools are
available to every day golfer. Use arcos, use another tool.
(27:44):
Keep those stats even Let's say you're considering equipment three
to six months out, get onboarded to a stats tracking
app and that'll help keep you honest.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, so track your numbers before you go get clubs.
Now you'll have obviously a lot more information, all right.
Last one from Josh. He said, if you play a
spinning ball, will a helping win have a bigger impact
on carry.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Distance if you play a spinner ball.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
If you play a spinnall helping win have a bigger
impact on carry.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, So a spinnier ball, which again we can we
need to get into this nuance here. A spinner ball
doesn't always fly higher. So this is the secret sauce
of bal damic is that sometimes you can have a
spinny ball. There's kind of a famous one out here
on tour where it's very spinny initial flight, but then
the players took it out in the course and it
flew low. So it's really I think we can use
spinny ball as a proxy for a high flying ball.
(28:35):
So does a high flying ball, which is generally a
spinnier ball, will do this more affected by the wind
or have more helping it carry absolutely, and it will.
It will both help the carry distance with the helping wind,
but it will also hurt you more into the wind.
This is why Shane I think you know I do this.
I play a spinnier, higher flying ball down wind, and
(28:56):
I play a lower flying ball into the wind. If
you don't have the one ball real in effect, I
highly recommend having a down windball and into the windball.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Having a mixed thieves in the bag.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Marty Jerson, I'm telling you, has thought of everything within
his own golf. There's a reason you're extremely successful outsight
obviously the deep talent.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Let me ask you a question. What are your thoughts
on the Q and A pod? Do you like it?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I loved it. I mean those questions are nuanced. I mean,
is there's right from the people? Uh? And there were
some good ones I think we should do is I
think we should do more of this?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, we'll mix in a little bit of this obviously.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know we've done a great job of kind of integrating,
you know, people to work at ping on the podcast
and ping professionals on the podcast. I think every few
months the Q and A is a good one because
this is what I hear from people to listen to
the pod is they have these types of questions and
it's nice to dive into it.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, super nuanced. I mean, obviously we're trying well, I
think what we're trying to do around the podcast and
make the complex simple. Yeah, you know, both for our
consumers to understand what the options are. You know, now
with adjust ability you can do things on your own.
A lot of people are getting launch monitors at their house.
How can we help them understand some changes? And then
you know, I think that I love those questions of
how should I prepare for? Which questions should I ask?
(30:01):
Because this is a big investment. It's like a big
investment to your game. Maybe you're only going out there
to look at new irons every two or three, four
years or so, how do you make the right decision?
And there's some things you can do to prepare to
help your fitter help you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
By the way, if you have a kind of a
question to follow up on any of this stuff on
the podcast, you can always hit us up on Twitter.
Dev Marty's good about answering questions there and I try
to answer them as well, not like you'd ask me
anything but Marty Jert's and always good diving deep, deep deep.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Into the questions from listeners. This is the ping proven
Grounds podcast.
The guys from Ping.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters.
I just love that I can hit any shot I
kind of want.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back to the Ping proven Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.
That is Marty Jerts, and we don't have a guest today. Marty,
you know what that means.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We get to deep dive on some technical stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We got some q and a's. We sent a thing
out on social media and said, you know, if you
have questions for us about equipment or some of the
stuff we talked about on the podcast, answer, We'll do
it again in a few months, So keep an eye
out on socials for that. The first question that was
on Facebook from Brian I liked because I think you
and I are now in this camp together.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
It says, I.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Don't know if it was talking about you, Marty. Play
two drivers, Please descript, Please describe the differences in the drivers.
We now play two drivers in our bag and I've
been doing it now for a couple of months. I'll
let you start on terms of the differences in your drivers.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, no, it's pretty fun. I mean one is to
maximize distance for the most part. So it's forty five
and three quarters inches, and that's my gamer like you know,
full max sen driver. And then I was looking at
data Shane. I think we talked about on the pod
which which showed that for players who hit the ball
three hundred yards or further, you hit your three wood
(01:13):
off the tee on average about ninety percent of the time.
And for my own personal courses I played back home
in Arizona, it's even a little bit higher, like ninety
five percent of the time I hit off the t
So I built a twelve degree G four to thirty max.
Put it in the is your first one?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Is your first one a ten k?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It's ten k your gamer's a ten ten K ten
point five in the big minus keeps the face a
little bit open, built to maximize distance. Then you know,
we're kind of calling this the Thriver three wood driver
like that. So twelve degree max in the flat dot
position tour two point zero blacks seventy five x yeah,
(01:51):
forty three inches, OK. And I just it's not built
to maximize distance. It's because I hit it off the
t I t at really low and just kind of
chip it down there in It's kind of like an
anti anxiety club for me. We built yours pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Almost the exact same. I mean, I was gonna say
forty three. It's twelve degrees.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's funny with the club I play in Connecticut. The
first part part five you play, you kind of send
it over the trees and if you have to get
one to be able to go for in two because
there's water short of the green. First time I had
this second driver that would you call it the Thriver Drivers.
The first time I had the Thriver in the bag,
I hit a good one over the trees, but it's
a downhill lie, so the balls kind of sitting sitting
(02:30):
kind of.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Above your feet.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're kind of below it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I pulled the twelve degree out. I was like,
let's just see, let's see if I can hit this shot,
which is tough. And I hit a good shot and
hit it one of the green side bunkers and got
it up and down for Birdie, And I told myself,
if you can hit it here, you could kind of
hit it anywhere. And it's a it's such a great club.
You can tee it lowep and kind of squeeze it
out there. I've also heard it that I can hit it.
I can tee it a little higher and it promotes
(02:53):
my draw absolutely, which I don't love hitting, so it's
an easier club for me to draw.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, totally. So yeah, you can use it. It just
has a lot of diversity to it. I think the
fun thing for the listener to tease out from this
is that your priority in your bag should be built
based on how you know how far you hit it.
This is one of those really cool insights from big data,
because without big data, we couldn't have answered this question.
And so I think it's something it's not for. It's
(03:20):
not if you don't drive the ball let's say two
seventy or further, it's probably not the right thing to
consider because you need to hit your three wood off
the ground a lot, whether it's a long part three
second shine to part four, second shine to part five.
But the longer you hit it, the less you should
prioritize three with off the ground because part fives I'm
hitting you know, three iron in four long irons in
(03:41):
things of that nature and I have a lot of
T balls. I need to hit that like two seventy five,
two eighty where my a big driver, the dispersion is
going to be a lot tighter than playing the three
wood in that scenario.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I heard players of the Masters that were putting in
a second drive around because again some of the whole
squeeze in at three fifty three twenty. So you're seeing
even tour guys do this as well. I think this
is gonna be the next thing you think about. The
iteration through the bag. Seven wood was hot a couple
of years ago, and I know a lot of players
are still playing at the driving iron was really hot
a few years ago. It feels like the thriver, if
(04:14):
you will is thing.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, definitely out here on tour. It's kind of like, uh,
you know you can you can swap it out like Augusta.
There's literally probably no three wood shots, right, you know,
like a two if you get it down there, you're
gonna hit an iron or something.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Kind of the only spot ten t but maybe you can.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's the one where you can take the thriver and
you get a little draw spin on you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You need to like, you need to really like get
that dialed in to your repertoire.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That's the two drivers, and again just something to play with.
I mean, I love the added loft. If I'm not
driving a grade, I'll use it off the tee, even
on holes I typically go with the gamers. So yeah,
it's versatile and I love that. Cameron on X we.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Call it ex or Twitter. Yeah, it X former do it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Cameron said, how does ping help people identify what swingweight
is best for them?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's a great question. I mean it's very fun at
ping because all of our clubs have, you know, either
CTP weights or CG shifters. We do custom weighting, so
we have the ability that allows us to accommodate different
shafts and lengths, but it also helps us fit for
the right swingwaight. So a good general rule of thumb
is a heavier swingweight is going to for the right
handed golfer promote a more open face to path or
(05:24):
a little right bias right. So let's say in a driver,
you got the CG shifter that can move the left
right a lot like it will change it like ten yards.
But if you go a couple swingweight points heavier, that
can bias your left right dispersion, say three or four
yards more to the right, or a good way to
think about is eliminate the left side a little bit,
(05:45):
so it's gonna change your face to path. You can
use to change that. Now you want to be a
little bit careful going too far. You don't want to
go like super light swingweight or super heavy because the
other impact it has it changes your face to path. Well,
it also changes your low point consistency. So if you
get a little too light in the irons, it can
help you turn it over, but you might be a
(06:07):
little erratic in finding the ground. You might thin one,
you might fat one, things of that nature. So there's
a little iterative process there. And say irons where your
your low point control is more important than a driver.
A driver of optimizing the swing weight to produce a
very consistent low point, right, very consistent low point. And
(06:28):
then we can use that a little bit to eliminate
a pull or a fade and kind of dial that in.
But swing weight should be used is a lever not
as big as say the lying goal or the CG shifter.
It's important to keep that in mind, so you don't
want to use swing weight as the first thing to
go to to tweak your left right dispersion.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Are you are you married to a swing weight? So
like if you're like, what are you do? You know
what you are?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, my irons are D three. I'm playing them a
little bit heavier now, partly because I want to eliminate
that left miss with some technique changes in my driver's
D six, which is also pretty So if you switched
irons or you transition to another set irons with that change, yes, okay, yeah,
so it would Now if I go hit irons that
are D one or D two, now I will pull them,
(07:13):
even with the same specs, same line goal, same shaft,
I'll pull them, and I'll be a little erratic in
my low point. Interesting, Yeah, so it won't find the
centerness of contact a little bit. But you know, I
think the big thing with swing weight is is don't
go too far, like a couple points here and there.
It's not one of those things you want to go
erratically heavy or erratically light in some of that nature. Now,
(07:34):
the other way to use swing weight in a driver
is there's an optimal headweight, okay, and swing weight is
the you know, the swing weight is kind of the
proxy for that which maximizes distance for an individual golfer.
So that's something else to play with. Some of our
fitters out there have these swingweight kits and they can
go play around with and try a driver at D
three and D five. Again, it's a lever to kind
(07:57):
of fine tune your left right, but be careful with
it with low point control on your irons.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know, I was thinking about the driver in terms
of this because you know, you and I talk a
lot about fitting and getting fit for the right club,
and you think about loft being an option, you think
about shaft, you think about length in terms of the driver.
I know you talk a lot about that in swing
weight as well as swingweight down the list in terms
of things people should be thinking about when they're trying
to tweak their gamer.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, it is, it is. I think a good way is, like,
let's say somebody's between you put the CG shifter on
the driver in the draw and you're overdrawing it, or
you have that little miss to the left. You put
it back in the in the neutral and it's kind
of a little right bias. Well, what's your option? You
can play around with the sleeve to kind of dial
that in, Or you can play around with the swingweight
and just bias the swing weight a little bit and
(08:42):
it's totally fine. Let's say you get fit with a
driver our stocks D three and you're like, oh, I
just want to barely eliminate that left miss. Just order
the driver at D four. It's one of those things
you can just use to kind of hedge a miss tendency.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
See, I mean there's just so many options, it's crazy.
Thomas said, can you go through the different settings on
the driver loft sleeve and their effects on ball flight?
So US amters can use that to our advantage.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh I love that question. So yeah, trajectory tuning sleeve.
We have eight positions the drivers out in the in
the stores, and in most settings they're going to come
in our default position, which has a dot to it.
We call it the dot position. And then we have
a small minus in a big minus, and then or
a small minus in a big minus, a small plus
(09:26):
in a big plus. Those the small plus is going
to add one degree of loft.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And by the way, just so people that are listening,
when you unscrew the driver and you take it off
it tells you this on the sleeve. Yes, so outside
of just the dots and the pluses the minuses, it'll
actually tell you once you take it off what it's
actually doing lostwise.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yes, and we did that on purpose, so you can see. Okay,
this is how much the loft is changing. So we
have five marked positions. Then we actually have three. It's
kind of like going to in and out. You know
the secret menu get animal style pain. Yeah, you get
the secret menus. So we have three secret menu options
we'll talk about. But we have a a small minus
and a big minus, and that changed the loft by
one degree and one point five. Now this is important
(10:07):
because you can use loft to change your launch and spin.
So if you go down, for every one degree you
change your driver loft, you will tweak your launch by
about zero point six degrees. Okay, so it's not one
to one, it's about six tenths and you change your
spin by about two hundred and fifty RPMs. So this
is a really good way. Let's say in the old days,
before the sleeve, you'd either have to go from a
(10:27):
nine to ten point five, right, your optimal could be
right in between and you're stuck. Now it's a way
to get super dialed with your launch conditions to unlock distance.
So or you can use the big plus and the
big minus position. Those change the the loft by plus
or minus one point five degrees. Now if you go
to the secret menu option shamee those. We have a
(10:49):
flat dot position and that changes the sleeve from the
more upright position and it goes we have a one
point five degrees of tilt, but you use flip at
all all the way around and you go three degrees flat.
So we have a flat dot position. This is like
what I play my Thriver and I think we build
years also, and that'll make the That'll make the driver
(11:10):
three degrees flatter, which can slightly open the face. It
can change centeredness of contact for a player look a
little bit different if you're playing a longer length. This
is a great option. We've had some players do that
on tour. They're playing at forty six inch drivers go
in the flat dot position. So it's a great option
to kind of tune your centeredness of contact and tweak
your left right bias to go in those flatter positions.
(11:31):
So we have a flat dot. Then we have a
secret menu, small minus, secret menu big minus, which are
one degree stronger and weaker, also about two and a half,
about two degrees flatter.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Is there like a chart online or anything people could
dive into that tell you all this stuff?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Absolutely. On our website you can see all the positions,
and then our fitters out there in ping Co Pilot
we have all kinds of charts which show all the
different positions.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, by the way, well, we'll tweet that out when
the episode comes out of well, so you have an
idea that all right, So we're moving from X to Instagram.
Most comments on Instagram not worthy of putting on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
These are the good ones that we pulled.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
By the way, this says approach to blended iron sets,
where to consider the transition point and how to mix
precision and distance models. So basically, when you're blending the
iron set, when do you go from blueprint beyond or
when do you kind of mix the blueprints?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Like how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah? I think a good way to think about our
iron models is you have they we have the models
that you the player bring the distance to the table.
This is I two thirty blueprint s blueprint t right right,
And then we have some great, really cool tools to
be able to figure out where you blend those because
two thirty goes higher Blueprint T, Blueprint S goes kind
(12:46):
of medium height, Blueprint T goes a little bit lower.
So we have some great tools in ping co Pilot
which can set, which can look at your land angle,
and we have some really cool algorithms in there that
are kind of vetted by how our tour players lend
their sets. Okay, and it says, okay, let's look at
the land angle, and when the land angle starts to
get a little shallow for that player's clubhead speed, let's
(13:09):
bump them up with an iron model, you know, with
their If they're in Blueprint T, we'll go to blueprint S.
If they're in blueprint S, we'll go to I two thirty.
That's a great way to blend our precision irons. But
then we have distance irons, and a good one to
blend over there is like our I five thirty right,
that's where the clubhead is built more like a metal wood.
The face flex is more you're gonna get more ball speed,
more distance out of it. I think a good way
(13:30):
is where you're iron your your gapping starts to bunch.
And again we have some great predictive algorithms in Pink
Copilot which can help determine when where that happens exactly.
But let's say you're a player. You you get your
set and you you start to hit your five iron
and your six iron or your four iron and your
five iron too close together from a carry distance standpoint,
(13:51):
that's where it's time to start looking at a set
that infuses more distance, whether that's I five thirty G
four to thirty G seven thirty.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Didn't saw hit the Goala not too long ago. He
had two three irons in the bag or two four
irons in the back right, But they were just different
sets absolutely, So they obviously fluid flew different they they
they had different trajectory stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, and I personally do that. I play an I
five thirty four iron that is stronger lofted. Obviously we
have a different loft configure. It's just built more like
a crossover with our with our two or two point
zero shaft in it, and I play it. Then I
play an Eye or a Blueprint S four iron. Okay,
so I play two four irons, but my I five thirty.
It's I mean, this may sound crazy. It's my two
(14:29):
fifty club. I fly at two foot okay, yeah, but
my my blueprint SS I fly to thirty two thirty
two at stock.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
How many players, I mean, I know you don't know
the exact number, but how many tour players now do
you feel like play blended iron sets? Do you think
it's sixty seventy percent?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I think in our in our blueprints, I think
you know, Austin Ekro is a good example there, blueprint
T all the way down through the fore iron. They
switched to blueprint S three iron. So and then we
have other players that switch in the six seven iron.
You know this. I played the blueprint, uh, and the
pitching wedge only I like that waller pitching wedge. I
(15:04):
like the turf interaction a little knifeier, right, And that's
where I like, Especially in Arizona, it's kind of firm
conditions in the springtime, so you can you have some players,
I mean, I'm on one end, I split it barely,
you know, one one club over there. Uh, And then
you have others that are splitting it like at the
three iron, and then some split at six and seven
so blueprint in I two thirty they we built those
(15:24):
two be blended.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I mean that's what I have. I have the
I two thirty four iron and then have blueprint ass
you know the rest of the way. So I mean
I'm I'm in that category for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah. And we and we we can figure the lofts
so they're the same amongst all those sets. So you
get trajectory differences built based on the face structure design.
And then our blueprint t's are also by standard, they're
a little bit shorter length, which is more PGA two
or average in terms of the lengths, and that gives
a little lower trajectory as well.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So you've got two drivers, three sets of irons in
your bag, is that right?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yes, three sets of ice.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I mean like I would love, I would love to
talk to a random Paddy to get your bag at
a club and they're going four iron going on here.
So I mean, just real quick, just to kind of
answer the question, you feel like the transition points are
either at the three and four or a lot of
the time around that six or seven iron.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, uh yes, I mean, well it's it's highly varied.
It's highly varied on the PGA tour between Blueprint S,
Blueprint T and and I two thirty. But I think
to answer the question that that came in is when
when when do you transition to a uh maybe from
a to a forgiveness set. And our forgiveness sets are
generally those that are also going to infuse more distance,
(16:36):
and it's going to be where you're you're you start
to eat that bunching, where you start to get that bunching,
but you don't want to transition to a high lofted
fairy wood or hybrid. Again, I'm going to defer to
Pink co Pilot because we have this great tool called
the gapping app in there. Go ask your fitter to
put you on it, and that can help you decode
where exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You should do that smart stuff there for Marty. All right,
Carl says, you spoke on an early episode about all
Namic being able to do a yardage card. Is it
available to the public yet? This is something I used
at the USA World.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
That's right, Yeah, No, we we've made Shane one of
these for Cherry Hills.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
By the way, I just want you to know I've
sent I've probably had ten people ask me on Instagram
over the over the months to send a picture of
it because are so interested to send them a pick.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
It is sweet. We don't have it available for it
for our consumers yet, but stay tuned watch this space.
It is a super valuable tool. I mean, I think
it's uh, you know, the tour players kind of have
a sense for how much the wind's gonna affect their ball,
but they but unless you're out here doing it all day,
every day, it's hard to know exactly. You know. I
think a lot of people like, oh, it's a one
club wind or a two club wind, well on tour.
(17:40):
And this is what I've learned playing in the tour
events I've played in, is that you it's better to
play golf with like one number in mind. I'm gonna
play this shot one fifty six.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So I do a lot of plays like calculations. Okay,
you know I'm here at you know, sea level. It's
the temperatures this the wind's hurting, it's quartering, you know,
fifteen miles an hour, and I'm gonna hit my flighted trajector.
I do all these little calculations you can do quick,
and it helped you figure out how to do this.
When you play in the USAM in Denver when it
was hot, right, the ball's gonna fly far up there
(18:10):
in The wind effects it less, which is very interesting.
When I've played golf in Denver, I make that wind
sheet that you used, and the wind if you're playing
in until like a fifteen mile an hour headwind, it
impacts the ball literally half as much as at sea level.
So the wind effects us based on the air density.
So a lot of fun. But we will we are
(18:31):
working on this. Hope to pass on this solution to
the consumer soon.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Hang close, Carl, We'll get that to you soon. All right,
Jason said, what type of golfer does the E grind suit?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Ooh, E grind? So the E grind is our I
two grind right E stands for I two. It has
the dish in the soul, which is really good at
the pump, by the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Way, to look at I love messing around with that
in Phoenix.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Tons of character to it. And the big thing behind
the E grind is like the neck the hazzle transition.
So it looks like it has a lot of offset,
but the hozzle tapers in it gets really sharp. And
the secret to this, and you know, you got to
give credit to Carston for working with the tour players
back then on both the philosophy and then proving this out.
Is that in the bunker, right when that club enters
(19:14):
the sand, it acts like it has very very low bounce,
like very sharp. So the club right when it enters
the sand digs and it's very knifey. Right, It's like
when you put your hand out the window and you're
gonna turn it this way and this way and this
way and this way, and you get that kind of
sensation where the club's gonna go down in the sand
and dig at the very beginning. But then instantaneously all
(19:36):
that bounce on the trailing edge kicks in, and the
dish and the soul affects the fluid flow of the
sand going through the soul and kicks in. It helps
you scoot the club forward through the sand. So you
get this early dig lake glide, and it makes it
the ultimate bunker club. So the e grind is great
if you're looking for something that's going to be really
(19:57):
good out of the bunker. Let's tell you play a
golf course and you have a lot of bunker shots.
The course is very protected by bunkers. You're in the
bunker a lot. You need to have a lot of
green side versatility the downside of the E grind, where
it might not be as good for some players, which
we have. We have some some players that have used
the I TU for a long time. They don't hit
a lot of full shots with it. Okay, if your
priority is going to be green side performance, bunker performance,
(20:21):
and in manipulating the face a lot, that's the e grind.
Take a look at it.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So it's it's more around the green. So, like you said,
a lot of bunkers on the golf course, maybe not
the longest golf course in the world. You maybe want
to get it up and down, try to make birdie
on par fives, or get it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Up and down the safe par exactly so you would you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I mean, it sounds like what you're saying is it
could kind of go both ways. It could be a
low handicapped player that again is trying to make birdies
on the fives and get it up and down the
safe par and also a high handicap player that's playing
a golf course where they do have a lot of
bunkers and they're going to be in a lot of bumk.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, so a high handicap player is a good good
use case. A high handicapped player sometimes is trying to
figure out how to fill their bag right where they're
they Maybe they don't they don't need fourteen clubs with
all these types spacing because they don't hit it that far.
But how do you supplement an adjunct those fourteen clubs?
One is one is a chipper, it's a great option
for short game performance. And two you might choose to
(21:10):
play two sixty degrees or two fifty eight degrees, one
that you're gonna use for full shots, basic chipping, and
one that's the ultimate bunker club, the E grind. Then
let's put say you're a better player and you're really
good hitting. This is not me, but let's say you're
really good at hitting your fifty six degree or your
fifty four is approach shot from any yardage. I mean,
I can't. I have a hard time like dialing it down.
(21:32):
I'm gonna hit my sixty when it comes to that.
But that player can can use the e grind with
great green side performance.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Interesting, you now you're gonna have two sixty degrees in
your back to go along with all your other stuff.
Slight dog Leg by the way, that's the username says.
Why does ping offer so many counterbalance shaft options.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And what is the benefit of those?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh great question. Yeah, so we've done counterbalance shafts for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's kind of in our name of our alta CBCB
stands for counterbalance And the reason why we do it
is because you can make the head heavier. So when
you counterbalance the shaft and you don't change the headwight
and you kind of close your eyes and feel the club,
the club's going to feel lighter to you because the
center of gravity of the whole system, the whole club
(22:20):
moves closer to your hands, so it kind of tricks
your hands and your feel to feel lighter. So then
you can you can put weight back in the head
to get it back to feeling like the normal swing weight. Well,
the benefit now is that you can play a heavier head.
A heavier head at the same shaft length is really
good because a heavier head makes the driver more forgiving.
(22:42):
It allows you to have more moment of inertia. In
the design world, we're fighting for every one gram. So
if you can give the designer one gram. They're having
a good day. Okay, So we can make the heavier
head to boost the inertia. That's number one. And number two,
we can max better maximize the momentum and momentum is
mass times velocity. That's that physics principle. So if you
(23:03):
have more momentum, you can transfer more momentum to the ball.
This is called impulse momentum in the physics world to
get more ball speed. So you get this double whammy benefit,
higher inertia and more ball speed. That's why counterbalance shafts
are in our ecosystem and have kind of become popular
in the aftermarket world.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Marty.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I would listen to you talk about almost everything in
terms of technology.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Very very well. So that was very interesting. There you go.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, if you're not getting something out of this,
I don't know what you're doing that. There you go
a slight dog leg all right. Zach had a question
about questions to ask during a fitting, and you know,
I mean a fitting committiy. They can be driver gonna
be putting. I kind of wanted to focus on iron,
so questions maybe to ask as you're going through an
iron fitting, as pain continues to introduce more and more
sets of irons in their arsenal.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Oh yeah, that's a great question, I think hopefully, and
what we've been able to do on this podcast Chane
is to give the consumers a lot of questions to
go ask during the fitting and really empower them when
it comes to an iron fitting. I think I think
you need ask the fitter whether you know you need
distance infusion or whether you the player bringing the speed.
(24:07):
So that'll kind of put you into those buckets of
kind of put you into two bucket. It puts you
into two buckets. So that's number one. And then on
top of that, I think a big thing is are
you generating enough spin with your irons? Right? So we
use seven irons. Our AFS three D fitting club allows
you to capture ball speed launching spin with your seven iron,
whichever model you're going to hit, and you want that
(24:28):
fitter to really understand are you generating enough spin? Are
you getting and that's going to help you drive the
peak height in the landing angle. Again, we have great
tools in Pink Copilot which educate the fitter to understand
that for your specific ball speed, are you generating enough spin?
So you and I we can generate around seven thousand
(24:49):
spin with our seven iron because we're faster ball speed,
and a lot of people out there, consumers or fitters,
might think, oh, everyone should be able to generate a
thousand times the club number for spin or seven thousand
years and iron. That is not the case. If you
don't have the speed that we do, you might you
might be generating five five hundred rpm spin and that's
actually relatively high for your clubhead speed. So have the
(25:11):
fitter tell you about the spin. Use our tools in
ping co pilot, use our spin guide chart and determine
am I generating enough spin. It's very easy to go
into an iron fitting and and hit an iron and
it's gonna go far. But the spin is too low.
You might buy those irons. You're not gonna have the
land angle, You're gonna have gaping issues, You're gonna not
(25:32):
be able to stop it on the golf course. We
hear it all the time on the podcast where you
know our team here and our tour players are looking
to get more spin on the irons. Right, So spin
the irons enough and then where what is the longest
iron I should play? That's the next question, and again
we have some great tools a gapping app. If you
put in our fitter puts in your ball speed, launching
(25:54):
spin with your seven iron, you just say you're a
FS three D. They help you understand your spin rate.
You put that in and we'll be able to determine
and give you a really good starting point. Should should
the seven iron be the longest iron? Should you should play?
Should it be the six, should be the five? Should
it be the four? How to build that back? I
think those are two key questions to ask when you
go in for an iron fitting.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I think, And to the question from Zach, I mean,
I think something that's very important is asking, like you
telling stuff to the fitterbsolutely, how do you hit shots
the way you miss it? What do you not like
to see misses? And the other thing I would say
is to be honest to your golf game. I see
so many people go get fit or talk about fittings.
They're they're over swinging, they're swinging too hard. It's really
(26:34):
being honest to the way you play golf when you're
not around somebody, because again, anybody that sits there and
hits golf balls in front of somebody with a computer
next to them. It's gonna want to gain a couple
more yards on their seven iron, But you've got to
go take the clubs and play golf the way you
typically play golf. So I think the key to fitting
is to truly be honest to your own golf game.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, and I think a good tool for this if
we see it a lot. We love this when customers
come in and they have some stats tracking, So you know,
folks will come.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
In arcos or something like that.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, look what's happening in my arcos data. Check out
what's happening over the last three months. Here, look at
my mispercentage short with my irons, look at my left
right bias, and you can just those are really good
clues on a lingle issue, course, strategy issue, keeping the
player honest. We see it on tour where we've interviewed
(27:23):
players and they have statisticians feeding their practice plan of
what they're going to do for the week or or
our team will start. We'll look at the data, make
a decision with their coach and their team on maybe
an equipment change for a certain golf course or a
tendency they're seeing in their games. So these tools are
available to every day golfer. Use arcos, use another tool.
(27:44):
Keep those stats even Let's say you're considering equipment three
to six months out, get onboarded to a stats tracking
app and that'll help keep you honest.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, so track your numbers before you go get clubs.
Now you'll have obviously a lot more information, all right.
Last one from Josh. He said, if you play a
spinning ball, will a helping win have a bigger impact
on carry.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Distance if you play a spinner ball.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
If you play a spinnall helping win have a bigger
impact on carry.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, So a spinnier ball, which again we can we
need to get into this nuance here. A spinner ball
doesn't always fly higher. So this is the secret sauce
of bal damic is that sometimes you can have a
spinny ball. There's kind of a famous one out here
on tour where it's very spinny initial flight, but then
the players took it out in the course and it
flew low. So it's really I think we can use
spinny ball as a proxy for a high flying ball.
(28:35):
So does a high flying ball, which is generally a
spinnier ball, will do this more affected by the wind
or have more helping it carry absolutely, and it will.
It will both help the carry distance with the helping wind,
but it will also hurt you more into the wind.
This is why Shane I think you know I do this.
I play a spinnier, higher flying ball down wind, and
(28:56):
I play a lower flying ball into the wind. If
you don't have the one ball real in effect, I
highly recommend having a down windball and into the windball.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Having a mixed thieves in the bag.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Marty Jerson, I'm telling you, has thought of everything within
his own golf. There's a reason you're extremely successful outsight
obviously the deep talent.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Let me ask you a question. What are your thoughts
on the Q and A pod? Do you like it?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I loved it. I mean those questions are nuanced. I mean,
is there's right from the people? Uh? And there were
some good ones I think we should do is I
think we should do more of this?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, we'll mix in a little bit of this obviously.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know we've done a great job of kind of integrating,
you know, people to work at ping on the podcast
and ping professionals on the podcast. I think every few
months the Q and A is a good one because
this is what I hear from people to listen to
the pod is they have these types of questions and
it's nice to dive into it.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, super nuanced. I mean, obviously we're trying well, I
think what we're trying to do around the podcast and
make the complex simple. Yeah, you know, both for our
consumers to understand what the options are. You know, now
with adjust ability you can do things on your own.
A lot of people are getting launch monitors at their house.
How can we help them understand some changes? And then
you know, I think that I love those questions of
how should I prepare for? Which questions should I ask?
(30:01):
Because this is a big investment. It's like a big
investment to your game. Maybe you're only going out there
to look at new irons every two or three, four
years or so, how do you make the right decision?
And there's some things you can do to prepare to
help your fitter help you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
By the way, if you have a kind of a
question to follow up on any of this stuff on
the podcast, you can always hit us up on Twitter.
Dev Marty's good about answering questions there and I try
to answer them as well, not like you'd ask me
anything but Marty Jert's and always good diving deep, deep deep.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Into the questions from listeners. This is the ping proven
Grounds podcast.
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