Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Steve having what did that start? That was? So that
was why am I blaking? In our second stage managers
it was Michael Michael Michael Shay was our second stage
man or second a d That would have been fifth season,
(00:43):
I think or sixth season. And then Steve hey Ford
went off to because his kid was being born, and uh, yeah,
Mike Michael Shay, who I didn't realize his dad was
like a legendary director. Legendary. Yeah, so he's like television royalty.
He's like big in the d g A and like, yeah,
and I totally didn't know that, of course, because all
(01:04):
grown ups were just the same experience, and he yeah,
he was really stressed out taking over Steve's job. And
I remember him, you know, just in order to keep
us going and be like, help us out. Steve's having
come on, guy, Steve's having a baby. That was just
to keep us and so that we repeated for the
next three years, ending video everywhere we said, Steve's having
(01:28):
a baby everything all the time. By the way, I
will put a picture of because I have a great
picture of me and d D to Stephano, Michael Shay
and Steve Hayfer. I'll put that on the Pod Meets
World show Instagram. Nice and Michael Shane and I didn't
always get along. I think a lot of people had
that experience. He with me, Michael, he a lot of
(01:48):
people didn't get along with you. Yeah, well you're hard
to get along with, Michael. I remember Michael did the
AIDS ride. Do you guys remember that? He remembered the
you know they still do it? Right? You didn't. Rusty's like, Hello,
that's right, that's right. That was Wow. It's a long ride.
That's a long time. I'm sore from a workout I
(02:09):
did yesterday, so I know what you mean. Yes, I'm
sore from Danielle's workout. Let's get into the episode. Welcome
to Pod Meets World. I'm daniel fish and Strong, and
we have with us here William, Rusty Russ. We just
know him as Rusty. You know him as Allen Matthews.
Oh everybody, Yeah, so this was a great episode to
(02:34):
have you on the pod because this was a great
Alan Matthews episode. There are there are a few, have
a few great Dad episodes, but this one in particular,
I loved. I thought you are I mean, you're always wonderful,
but boy, this episode for me. Really, I truthfully, I cried.
(02:55):
I'm not gonna lie. I had a little to watch
with Indie. I'm sitting there like, oh, I couldn't believe
how stupid I felt. I'm tearing up, and it came
out of nowhere. I was like, Oh, this is why
Boymate's World was so good. It totally got me. I mean,
as the only one of the three of us, with
(03:15):
four of us sitting here smart enough not to have children,
I did not cry at all. Oh my gosh, I
didn't see it coming. I did neither the Superman when
he looks out the window. Okay, you know, I do
think that this is probably the episode that defined Alan
Matthews because in the pilot you had you had a
nice exchange with Ben where he finally realizes that he
(03:38):
abandoned you at one point, you know, like that's the storyline,
but you kind of downplay it and and it doesn't.
It doesn't land the way that this, you know. And
also I feel like this is probably where we learned
that Alan what he does for a living. Yes, they
defined his job in this episode, because later one in
the season we get Lenny Spinelli, the great Late Willie Garson,
(03:59):
who came on a couple episodes. But yeah, so we
this is really I think where the show discovered who
all is what Alan does, which is it's so lovely.
It's such a lovely episode. Now, before we get into it,
you obviously watched this episode. Before watching this episode, when
was the last time you saw an episode of Boy
Meets World? My goodness, Um, I don't know. I can't
(04:23):
even remember. Once in a while, yeah, you know, but
once in a while watch and somebody asked me something.
I don't remember that. Let me see. Did you watch
them when they were on in the nineties? No, actually
I didn't, wow, because I was yeah, because they were
on Friday nights. You had an active, very busy life
at Friday nights, and you know, it wasn't we're streaming
(04:46):
in those days outside the covered Wagon. You know, I
had to feed the oxen. Did you have the episodes
on vhs? Because I remember at the end of every
season we would have the Opera Trinity to buy. Do
you guys remember that it was so expensive It was
like three hundred dollars and then we got to buy
them four episodes per VHS and every Disney would offer
(05:14):
that to us. It's like, you know, like basically to
have it as a memorabilia of like and and my
parents I think did it every year. So six VHS tapes, Yeah,
we have stacks. I don't know if my parents still
have them. But we had every episode before D before
the DVD box set came out. We convert. We paid
more money to convert them to dd D. You could
buy them on Amazon for like, and I was like,
(05:36):
what did we do this for? There's a lot of
used ones that those are my favorite ones, Like I'm
selling my used season three of boy Meat's World, Like, oh, okay, interesting,
So so you didn't have you didn't so if you
missed it on Friday Night, Rusty, that was it. It's
just well I could always see it. I could always
ask to see it. But you know, I have to say,
just in general, I would never watch things that I did, Okay,
(05:58):
and I I first of all, as an actor, I
was afraid to make you self conscious. Remember my famous
old acting teachers Sandy Misers that you never watch yourself,
you know, because then you become self conscious. And literally,
I mean my family was always upset with me or
I didn't know you're on TV or I didn't know
you did this movie or I didn't know you know.
(06:20):
It was just my personal thing for better for work,
you know, I don't. I do it for the work.
And it's hard to watch it. I mean, I've gotten
better as I got old, looking, I just don't care.
Is there any show you were on that you watched
anything that you were like, I watched Wise Guy quite
a bit, or any any show. No. Never, I've been
surprised by actors who watched the monitor watch playback now,
(06:41):
you know, which is something that didn't exist until really
the nineties, and now it's a standard thing to have
playback on a set. And he's very helpful. Well, it's
what looks what's crazy to me, is I hear uh
an act I hear like somebody Jeff Bridges Apparently it's
a huge playback watcher, which doesn't make when you watch
his performances, they're effortless, right they It almost seems like
he's is like the least self conscious. Uh. And yet
(07:02):
he apparently is one of those actors who watches him,
watches his playback just performance based on seeing the playback.
That would drive me insane, Like I like Robert Redford
apparently has never seen anything he's ever been in, right,
I mean that I'm with you, Rusty, like I couldn't.
I just tried to watch the show, and that's one
of the reasons I didn't, because I, well, I just
got insecure. But I also didn't want to be aware
of my body or my face in a way that would,
(07:25):
for me, seemed like an impediment act and make you
less spontaneous. The great gift you have as a good actors,
as you all are, is that you can be spontaneous
in front of the camera presently the moment, at least
for me, once I start watching myself, it's not so
much anymore that I don't really take it that seriously mine,
but sometimes actorly the look at just to see if
(07:47):
there's a feather standing over their head. And you know,
I also it wasn't like I was in any position
to go, oh, we have to do that again. But
I mean we were just talking, uh in the break
here about how you know you were on Sopranos, which
then led me to you were also on West Wing.
(08:07):
I mean, you've been on some of the greatest television
shows ever, literally dead Wood. I mean, you name it.
You've been on Briscoe County. I mean you were on
some of the career. I mean we didn't even touch
on some of your movie. The film American History Acts Cruising,
as I mentioned, which by the way, it was a
showing at the New Beverley American History. American History. Your
(08:29):
performance in that movie, so it's so amazing and the
way that you you humanize the awfulness, it's so smart,
you know, to cast you because you you you're so
likable and you're so reasonable and rationable, and then you're
just spouting this hate so casually and you could just
see how how like, oh yeah, that that's how the
(08:52):
spreads is that there's there's a dad at the table,
not being an evil villain, like he's like, you're a
good guy. You know, you were easically playing like my
dad a firefighter, you know, like and oh my god,
I remember when that that that movie came out. It
blew me away. There's a big boy the contingent in
that in that an incredible film. Yeah that was. And
(09:13):
then so you you know, go from American History X
two on the Fence, which is how did you feel
watching this episode? This episode? You know, it was I
watched it, and it's just I was very interested. I
hadn't seen it, and um, and I was actually kind
of moved by it to uh, you know, and and
(09:33):
being the dad, I kind of went, oh, this is
what makes Michael Jacobs so great. All of a sudden,
you get to a point in the story and its
story is really about letting a kid be a kid,
you know, and and and and it's about understanding and love.
And yeah, it was I was quite thrilled to watch it.
(09:55):
And but that's also the genius of it is because
when you watch it as somebody as a kid watching
t G I f it's about finding out that your parents,
or your or a specific parent at the time is
so what they do in their life and they are
more than than what you see. And while you're always working,
always doing this, you still have time for me. You
(10:15):
still have time. And then when you watch as adults,
you're crying because it's about letting a kid be a kid.
So there it is. Really you get different things the
different ages you are when you watch the show, which
is still holds up to the writing. I mean, at
the end of the day, that's what it's about. Is
it's like you get one thing when you watch it
as adult, you get something completely different when you watch
it as a kid. That's rare to have that. That's
(10:36):
not a bad segue for a few minutes with Indie. Actually, UH,
if you love to play it back, because I watched
it as I has become the new tradition. I watched
this episode with my seven year old son and UH
recorded a conversation with him. It starts off because I,
you know, I started recording. He was like, what are
we doing this for. I was like, well, we're putting
(10:57):
it on the podcast. So his first question is, is
it's gonna make me famous? Nice? Hey, Bachelor fans Ben
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(12:06):
suite for all things bachelor in Bachelorette. Wait, could I
be famous if this happened? Um? I guess so. At
least your voice could be famous. My voice. Nobody even
knows who I look like? You want, don't you describe yourself?
Short hair, little shaggy right now? Actually bushy hair, long bangs.
(12:34):
You have freckles all the way across your nose and
your cheeks. What color eyes blue? What color hair blue?
It is blue right now. But it's fading that we
died it. How long ago did we die it? Like
to only two weeks ago? All right, but it's it's
got it's gone gray as all right, We're gonna sit
down and watch another episode of my show. Do you
(12:55):
remember what it's called? The Boy? Yeah? All right, Square
guns painting the fence. What do you think? And do
still too much shirts? What? Actually you commented on the vest, Yeah,
a lot of vests in the beginning, and the must
(13:16):
and the mustache. Dude, game back, Mr Feenie. Yeah yeah.
Do you think Corey learned anything this episode already? Really? No,
I was too focused on you still me. I was
barely in it again. Actually had a bigger part this time.
What did you think of the square guns? Yours was cool?
(13:36):
The Nerds was dumb. It had a rubber band in
the middle kind of weird. Wait you called him a nerd?
What what? What's a nerd? Math nerd, science nerd? What
does that mean? We like? I don't know, but you
just knew that he was a nerd character. Yeah. Why
he's always like so protective and he is like and
(14:00):
he loves math, and he just like tries to be
safe and stuff. I do not like order kids with
his buck teeth. Dude, you heard missing one of your
front teeth. I don't think you're one to talk right now?
Oh okay, alright, So did you like him though as
a character? I thought he was really funny. Yeah, when
he wasn't a banana suit? What what about when Corey
(14:24):
got all wet in the beginning. You seem to like that. Yeah,
I thought that seeney dude was talking sense where he
said the water fountain wasn't a toy? Very true. What
about the little sister man she killed me? I thought
she was so funny. She's the best. Oh, yes, she
should have called nine on one. I feel like she should.
(14:45):
I would have done that if they were having a
water gun fight and they shot the neighbor, yes, I'd
go nine one one. I don't think that would be
the appropriate thing to do. But all right, what about
the whole the whole thing? Did you notice that in
the beginning of the episode, he says, Corey, they're talking
about which superhero you'd want to be your dad, and
(15:05):
then he has that moment when he's watching his dad
paint offence and he says, it's like, my dad's Superman.
What do you think of that? That's kind of cool? Yeah, man,
I got kind of emotional because it was like earlier
in the beginning of the episode he kind of was,
I don't know, like not thinking about his dad's feelings
and how much how hard his dad was working, what
(15:28):
super he would you want your dad to be excellent question.
Let's get into the real thing. My I mean, it's
really hard to to to not think Superman. I mean,
you'd want the most powerful superheroever, wonder Woman. I guess
what about you? Say, my mom? Maybe that girl? Dad,
(15:50):
that's a spider Man. Yeah, even though I hate superheroes
since when I don't like superhero still weird? What's weird
about them? They're just like we do save the page.
It sounds to me like you're talking. It sounds to
(16:13):
me like you're talking about the movies, like you don't
really like the superhero movies, the horrible and the shows
they're like, oh no, I got'ta say, Lord learn I
was square headed on Superman. So is it safe to
say that you like Boy Meets World better than superhero shows? Yes? Yeah,
all right, I think that's a good that's a that's
(16:34):
a compliment. Anything else you want to add? How did
the sister get the phone? She was always on the counter?
Great question, unbelievable and with a really good question. Is
a good question. But to your point, will I, it
was like we watched two different shows exactly. He like,
(16:56):
if you notice he knows he identifies with literally like
he's basically like the sisters the best, and he's more
concerned I would have called nine one one and then
the score guns and the nerds, you know, as I'm
sitting there trying to be like, did you know this
the dead and like he's absorbing that too, but it's
not nearly as important as like who would you want
as your superhero? You know, And that balance the way
(17:18):
that the show is a family show in the true
sense that a family can watch it together, enjoy it,
but have completely different interpretations or different experiences of that show.
It also leads to which we got into further episodes
when when Lily wasn't on the show anymore, where it's
like why would they bring We don't need the Little Sister?
Whey would they bring her back? And it's like, well,
look at that audience. If there's a whole an audience
(17:40):
connected to every one of the characters on the show,
that they bring a different audience with them, which again
I didn't know any you know, I don't know anything
about that. So at the time it was like, we
don't need the Little Sister, and then it's like, oh, no,
you do. There's a whole group of people out there
that will identify with that character's I'm obsessed with. By
the way, that segment we are calling too much Shirts.
It's my favorite segments so far to do on the podcast.
(18:00):
It's just too much Shirts with Indie is just amazing,
the absolute best. So let's jump into the recap. Let
me give you a synopsis of the episode. When Corey's
parents don't give him the money to buy a water
gun for the classes water fight, he strikes a deal
with Mr Feenie to paint his shutters and Phoene will
give him the money for the gun. Corey rushes through
(18:22):
the job and an accident occurs. So this episode was
directed by David Trainer, who we have already mentioned. His
name has already come up like three times on the podcast.
The writers were Michael Jacobs, April Kelly and Jeff Sherman.
And um, it's you know they have starring here and
we all know who's starring starring's amazing people. Um not
(18:45):
yet but alright, sure not me and guest starring. I
think the guest star is important because I think the
only time we saw him, isn't it? Yes, the one
guy is His character name is Ellis. Do we does
anybody say his name Ellis on the show? Because I
had the same thought. I was like, wait, what was characters?
And then we never mentioned it. But he's great, he's
so funny. How do you get to be award? Um? Yeah, well,
(19:08):
this is the introduction of the death chair. Unfortunately, let's
recap the death chair. So the death chair is the
chair that Dewan is sitting in. Um, which, yeah, it
was in the cafeteria. We go through these first episodes
and this was not the first episode we shot after
the pilot. This they aired out of order, so this
was probably episode three or four of actual shooting, and
(19:31):
so by this time we had probably already Dewan was
probably not the first one to sit in that chair
in the cafeteria. So we'll see in the other episodes
that we end up. Um, I believe Marty York sits
in that chair. John Party was in the averaging the pilot.
But yeah, so we started making the joke that this
is the death chair because the kid, because whoever said yeah,
whoever sat in this chair seat usually did one episode
(19:53):
and then did not come back. If they were lucky
enough to do one episode. There were times we're halfway
through a rehearsal the person be gone and he's like,
oh there, that's it, You're gone. So it was it
was tough to be the To be Corey's third friend
was not a not an easy thing to do in town,
all right. So in in the cold open, Corey and
Sean and and Dewan are talking about which superhero they
(20:13):
would want to be their dad, uh, which is all
Michael Jacobs, by the way, because Michael Jacobs is such
a it was known for a vast comic book collection,
and so there would be many a comic book or
superhero reference that would happen during Boy he was any
time he hears anything superhero, it's all Michael. Yeah, okay.
And so the Sean and the friend pull out their
(20:36):
water gun and they spray Minkus. They just completely dows
him in water mingus. Then I know it's also we
should mention this is the first time we see Yeah,
this is the first time we meet Mincus. So we
we see his name Leon Norris in the opening credits
in the pilot episode. He just didn't appear in the
pilot episode. This is so this is the first time
we see this character, and um Mincus then pulls out
(20:59):
his water guy and it's actually way bigger than everybody
else's puts everybody else's water guns to shame him struggling,
I'm sorry him taking up the giant like cello case
or whatever. It was really funny because Lee was a
very small kid and they had this giant shut and
you see him have to like muscle that thing up
on the table to pop it open. Old school, Yeah
it was. It was cold. Yeah, it was really cute.
(21:20):
I thought it was cute that even to have the
case like that, where you think it's going to be
a violin or a cello or something and then it's
And this was the era of the super soaker. This
was very very nineties timely. Like I remember in real life,
these things were so cool and we couldn't call I mean,
supersoakers were the brand. I believe that's sort of like
ushered in this era. Now it's sort of taken for granted,
(21:42):
but like there was the whole idea that you could
make like really cool big score guns was a new
idea and they all looked like they do on the show.
But I remember it was so fun to do this episode.
I actually have memories of this episode, I can imagine
that pointing out the guns and like doing the whole thing.
And then you know, of course Ben getting soaked in
that opening scene was just so much that that's like
(22:03):
one of those moments where it's like, uh, you know,
kids love watching that kind of stuff, Like my son
that he was just dying, and that when we watched
this scene. It was also really fun to do when
we did like food fight stuff or like this is
that was the marriage of like being a kid actor
and still being a kid and having so much fun
with this stuff and so rusty. Since you didn't watch
(22:24):
the show when it aired in the nineties and you
weren't in obviously the cafeteria set, did you watch like
did you get to watch it during run through? Did
you watch it during the taping? Like? What was what
was your What was going on for you while we
were doing this like kid friendly stuff? Oh? I was.
I was enjoying watching you guys, you know. I mean
I love the tapings because I would see scenes that
(22:46):
maybe I hadn't been around, but I was, you know,
in the first couple of years, I was there a
lot you know, as you guys got older and there
were different storylines, you know. But as as I love
watching you guys, I like what you would come up with,
and and also how brave you were to get wet.
Why you're fearless as a kid actor, You're just like, yeah,
(23:07):
throw me in the table over your fearless as an actor.
I get older, I kind of how cold is that? Yeah? Exactly?
Do I really have to get wet? But I don't
know if I want to do this. What do you
remember about Lee Norris? I just remember he was so sweet,
so smart and just could you know, just got everything immediately. Yeah,
(23:32):
you know you kind of you know, he was there
from the table read just ready had this character. He
was really funny. He was funny. He's a pro, and
I guess he had a lot of experience, more of
the experience than any of us on sitcom at that point,
because he had already done Almost Home and wasn't even
(23:53):
I think Michael, I think, Okay, So Michael Jacobs basically
created the role of Minkus for him because he was
so good, such a pro, and you know it's so
funny because yeah, like I just remember him and his
mom when where were they? They had a slight accent.
You could hear his accent in there. Oh, he's just
such a cute kid. Michael would do that. Though Michael
(24:13):
would if he liked an actor would create it. I
mean Jason Marsden. The Jason Marsden character was created for
Jason Marsden because I mean it was that's just Michael.
So Corey realized he gets soaked with the water gun,
and then he realizes he's the only person in the
school who doesn't have a water gun. I have one question.
Can we go back to the cold open a little bit?
I have one question. Okay, good, we're still here. So,
(24:34):
if memory serves, we were not allowed to say things
like oh my god. So he stops himself. You hear
he says. And I even wrote that because you you know,
halfway through he was like, oh wait, we're not allowed
to say. And so you set you that that thing
shuts down in your brain. It's like swearing on TV.
So it was him going, if you watch again, he was,
oh my god, and he stops himself from saying it
(24:56):
TV with a chiron and with like with subtitles and
and it says, oh my god. That probably wasn't scripted.
That was probably just be and knowing that he couldn't,
he stopped himself halfway through. You could see him and
he saw the mind going wait, I can't say, Oh
my god, I wonder how my only takes we did
I don't remember, because I mean something like that you
(25:17):
have to change. Yeah, well was the shot from his
from behind his back though, because maybe they could have
just taken it out on his face and he has
a kind of over his He has a single of
him and then and then um Bill comes in and
joins his shot their exchange. This also started the pants pole.
I don't know about these are things before I came
(25:38):
on the show, So tell me what is the patented
ben pants poll. You will notice Corey always will walk
into a scene and for some reason, and it's usually
just his right hand, it's not both. He will reach
down and he like goes to pull up his pants
And did you know this at the time. I remember
this at the time to the point where when I
saw it the first time I was rewatching this, I
was like, Okay, I'm gonna keep a running tally of
(25:59):
how how many time said he does this? We were
at ten by the end of the episode. By the way,
check me if I'm wrong, Um, but you do you
see him just it was a kind of thing he
did where he would always go for his pants. What
were your ticks? Do you have you remember? Oh, I'm
sure I had. I mean, my my first tick was
just it was it's just bad acting. It was one
of my first time. I feel like you went through
a pointing stage. I pointed that. I also did a
(26:21):
lot like a facial thing like like where you and
Michael like pulled me aside one time and told me
to do this where like you would say a line
like actors when you're trying to get a laugh when
there isn't one and you don't really know how to
find the laugh yet you would make a face after
the line, like you can't believe even you said that line.
So it was like, whatever you mean, Corey, Like I
(26:41):
can't said that's well, but it is. I can't believe
I got away with that exactly. So it was I
remember Michael like during a note session, I think it
was our six of a note session was like, oh,
and will don't make faces like okay, thanks? Um. So yeah,
we always got into that stuff. But I'm the only
person who was bumped even with water guns. Just hearing
(27:04):
the word gun and seas in a schools were talking
not it did not occur to me. But I'm watching
it with Indie, and I think he was having so
much fun with the idea of square guns that I
just saw them as square guns. But yes, now that
you guys men, but it is incredibly disturbing. But let
me point out something also about your son. What did
he say? He said, you call nine one one in
(27:29):
their heads. It's even your son's young head shooting the
neighbor wasn't At that time, it wasn't interesting. It's a
pre Columbine nobody was thinking anything like that. But you
know what's interesting, Writer, is that I'm surprised it didn't
occur to you because I got something from you. I've
gotten many things from you, parenting wise, which is funny
because we've only our kids have not even well, your
son came to my son's birthday party, but whatever. I've
(27:51):
taken so many things parenting wise from Writer, but one
of them was that you said, very early on, Uh,
there's no you cannot avoid it. Whether you shield or
protect your kid from any any vision of guns in
your house, they will still somehow gravitate towards finger guns.
Finger guns exactly. And you said blasters, We call them blasters,
(28:15):
and so we Jensen and I have taken in our home,
we don't say the word gun at all. Everything is
a blaster. Oh look at that water blaster? Is that?
Oh that's a laser. Everything's a blaster or a laser.
Um And so I think even just hearing kids talking
talking about it wasn't just that one of the lines.
(28:35):
He one of the lines that I might have been
due on a kid. It might have been Lee. He says,
it's so powerful, this thing will blow your head off.
And it was like, wow, I mean, it's just the
times are different. Times different. It's just something didn't bump
any of us back then. And and you know, it
was very very strange. Yeah, to hear it was, it was, Yeah,
it was. It was interesting, all right. So we leave
the cafeteria, Corey goes home and he comes downstairs. He
(28:58):
starts complimenting her, Wow, you sure do look nice today,
and she knows what this means because probably yeah or something.
So this was interesting. Corey was more conniving than I remember, like,
you know, as as as the show went on, you know,
Corey obviously grew up and Ben added his own thing
and it changed completely. I forgot that there's like this
(29:20):
real Dennis the Menace, like you know, a wise guy,
smart aleck Corey. That's what I forgot that between between
Corey and Bill Daniels, that Coy and Mr Feeney, that
was absolutely Dennis. That like that evaporated in Corey by
you know, season I don't know when, but by the time,
(29:41):
you know, season seven, like there was no I mean,
he would never be like a manipulative, smart alecky character
like that. So it's so interesting that the show clearly
started from this place and and it works, you know,
it's but he's also there all a little meaner to
each other. And I remember, like there's also like classic trope, yeah,
(30:02):
you know the young you know, adult acting kid, Yes,
the con Man totally. You know, it's a great story
icon too, and and Ben was very good at it,
and it's it's a very fun and it's also very
you know, it's it's someone to watch. Yeah, you know
that you want to go, Okay, what are they really
(30:23):
going to do? Well, that's the thing, I mean say.
One of the things that strikes me as I'm rewatching
these episodes. Is A, Ben was in every single scene,
every sing and B. He can carry the show. Absolutely,
really can carry the show. You watch him the whole time.
He's like a little stand up comedian and he really
can carry the weight twelve year old actor. That's pretty
(30:47):
amazing that he was. He was able to do that
because he was in every single scene so far for
the two episodes that we've watched, which is nuts, that's
that's and then going to school and doing everything out.
I mean, that's a lot of weight on your shoulder.
And I thought halfway through this episode, I was just like, man,
Ben's actually really good, Like he's really good at that.
And I think we all took that for granted. I
(31:09):
think we all thought of ourselves. I mean even though
we know the show was built around him, and it
was like, well, we're all working, we're all doing that.
Like no, in these early years, it was all bad,
Like there was so much pressure on him to carry
the show. Like you're saying, he nails it and like
and that the effortlessness with which Corey is like empathetic
and then sort of becomes also a smart alec and
(31:31):
he's like, what do you mean, you know, like give
me the you know what does he say, Well, we'll
get into Yeah, but he's he's really good. Yeah, yeah,
it was. I was. I was amazing because I haven't
seen it in so long. That's one of the things
I really took away from the first two episodes was like, man,
Ben's good at this. Yeah. So he tells his mom
he wants a water gun. He shows or a brochure
and it's fifty dollars and then Dad Rusty down the
(31:55):
stairs grabs him in a in a bear hug from behind,
which is just so cute. And uh he looks at
the water gun and he says, hmm, that seems pretty steep,
pretty expensive. You can't get it now, but maybe we
could get it for you for Christmas. Rusty, what's it
like to have like, what's it like to have a
TV wife, a TV family? What? What is that? How
(32:16):
do you create that chemistry? Because like I'm watching you
and Ben, and right from the beginning, I just buy
and believe that you guys have a father son relationship.
You just feel it. Oh well, thank you. Well, I
think I think hopefully that's what actors bring. I mean,
as an actor, I part of me believes more and
(32:38):
make believe than real life, because there I can be
anything I want. And Ben was a sweet kid. You
all were, and I was, you know, getting to know
you guys. But again, part of it is just jumping
in and going for it. And thank goodness, Ben was
there too, as you all were. Really, as far as
I'm concerned, um, I don't know, you know, I don't know.
(32:59):
He was a wonderful actor and a great kid, and
I just you know, you have to be brave. I
just said, Okay, this is what I do with my kids.
You know, this is what I do. You know, with
my son or my daughter. You know, in the family
of five. You know, my dad was you know, great dad,
(33:20):
you know, and he wan hugg us and you know
that's what you want. What do you want from my father?
I thought, this is immediate time to say, oh, this
is where we are, this is my kid. I do
remember as a kid actor getting jobs where you'd be
(33:42):
somebody's kid, and um, the good actors would physically spend
time with you, because you need to be comfortable, you
need to be like I remember, I did a movie
called Benefit of the Doubt with Amy Irvine and like,
that's a that's a whole story, and never let me
(34:03):
forget that I was in that movie because I'm so
bad in it, and he would just imitate me every morning.
He saw it on TV one day and then he
was like, writer, what is this movie? Amy Irving? Uh?
You know, like in my my screen test, she just
she was like, we do the scene and then she's like, hey, writer,
can you just come sit in my lap? Like in
(34:23):
retrospect it's kind of weird, but at the time it
was like, that's what and we just and then she
just hugged me and held me and it was like
we needed the physical and it's it seems weird, but
it's true. As a kid to have a parent kid relationship,
the actors need to have a dynamic that it's believable,
that's lived in and it's it's it's super Yeah. And
you guys had that instantly. Yeah, you know, and you
(34:44):
develop that. I mean, who knows we developed at the
craft service ta kid Ben or I would kid you
or Danielle or you know, Will It's like, what are
you doing? What kind of shoes are those? What are
you yea last night? Where did you go? You know?
You kind of like any kind of but and actors
can hopefully most people can do it kind of instantly.
I mean, you think about it, you go to work,
(35:06):
you have to create some sort of life between the
other actors, and hopefully that's a gift that you have
or not. You know. Fortunately Ben was great, and yeah,
I just kind of showed up baby and trying not
to run into the furniture. There's there's a question that
I we should have asked last episode, but I want
to ask now because we we've heard about this from
(35:26):
some of the other actors that were on the show
that we will get to eventually. But was there ever
a time, especially at the beginning, where you thought to yourself,
this isn't gonna work, this isn't for me, and I
might not want to be here. No good, Okay, No,
I don't think so. No. I there are many times
I went, oh, I don't get there. A lot of things,
a lot of things I don't know that I don't
(35:47):
know right right. I would do something and David Trainer
kindly would point out, oh, I need you to look
over here or do this, or you can't walk in
the back like that. You look crazy. You know. There
were just things in the format that I went, Oh,
I was so used to doing, you know, single camera
(36:08):
and things, and the dynamics and the set and the
you know, we're all kind of different dimensions, and it
took me a while to adjust certain things because there
were certain things I would do that I wasn't sure
the camera was getting or not. Though I never really
worry about that, Okay, I'm just curious. No, no, I
always you know, once I committed to it, and as
(36:29):
I said, you guys were so great and I love
the writers, and man I was I was really glad
to be there. Cool. So then we're in Korean Eric's room.
Eric is trying to put a girl's number in his watch.
I definitely remember being so excited about having a Cassio
(36:50):
digital watch that could do that. Was a calculator watch
that was so advanced in whenever I had it. Um
So it's but now it just seems so dated, and
I believe it's the Eric says the same name, it's
still Heather from the pilot. So, and then I believe
Nicky Cox plays Heather. So he's been dating the same
(37:11):
girl for two or three episodes, which the thing I
like about that is that it kind of ties back
into the previous episode where Corey told you to call her,
which means it didn't work work and she stuck around
and you guys were able to continue your relationship. Um.
And so Corey's like, hey, how did you get your
parents to buy that watch for you? And you explained
(37:32):
that you actually bought it with your own money because
you have a job, and what I did. Eric, Eric
had a job. What he didn't ever have were scenes
with the parents, So it was always like the parents
would be downstairs and then Eric's upstairs in his room,
so it was still like it was just it's normal,
but it was it's very strange. You'd always be talking
about stuff, but it was never like I wasn't working.
(37:52):
You actually come down for a brief second in the
next scene. One quick, one quick, little out again. But
it was we were all kept very insular at the time.
It was like, this is your set, like, okay, rider,
you know at the time, Sean, you're in school, the
(38:12):
this is your set. Yeah, the bedroom was your kitchen
was Alan and Amy exactly. And then Ben got to
run between the worlds and it was Foenie backyard, Poenie
classroom was Poenie, but not as much yet. We haven't
really established that yet, so it was it was It's
very interesting they set up all these different worlds and
then the through line is been running from world to
(38:35):
world world and we and and nobody's been really meshed yet, right,
which is which is an interesting, interesting look at the
whole thing. And you know, it's kind of inevitable, right,
it has to happen, and they set it up. They
always set it up with with the opening static shot
start of either the house or the school, and then
you know where the camera pans in, like, oh, they're
(38:55):
going upstairs to the bedroom, it's going to be an
eric scene, They're going downstairs to the front door, it's
going to be a kid and scene. Like by that,
you knew where you were going to be in the
house and and by extension, what actors you were going
to see the exterior of the house, did you do?
You guys know that that house is in Studio City
on Colfax, right across from the studio, right across from
where we shot. And just yesterday I passed the exterior
(39:16):
for the school, which is on the name of the school,
but it's a Beautiful High School and Lovesteless one of
the few brick schools in Los Angeles. Why it was
the exterior because it looks like an East Coast it does.
But I drove by with India yesterday after we watched
the episode. I was like, there it is and he
was like what really? Well, I remember when they sold
(39:37):
the house, they sold it as The Boy. I mean
that was like it was first sale as the Boy
means world house. Yeah, speaking of all the different worlds
that is. It actually is very much how a child's
life feels. You do feel like you're like I have
so many things. I have my home life, and I
have my friend life, and I have my school life,
and everything feels nothing feels like a it goes well together.
(40:01):
It just fluid. It's not fluid at all. It's very interesting. Yeah. Okay,
So then we're in the kitchen. Are you at all
handy rusty? Because I noticed in this episode you're you're
fixing the toilet, you're fixing the sink. Are you handy
in that way? Are you like, can you fix stuff?
I'm an actor. I let other people fix stuff. Yeah,
(40:21):
I'm terrible. I'm relatively like if it's a toilet, a sink,
something like that. Then I fix it around the house.
Really learned years. Yeah, my dad figured it. Yeah, I
live by myself since I was sixteen. It's like, am
I going to call a plumber because the sink is making? No,
you should go outside, you shut off the water. You
(40:43):
fix the sink. I wouldn't even know how to shut
off the water. You're gonna need to learn how to
do that because if there's a flood or something, you're
gonna need how to learn how to shut off the
water in your house. That's important. There's usually one valve
coming in from the street or two. If you've got
to want to know where that is your water valve.
You're gonna want to know where those are. Those are
two important things. All right, I'm gonna learn it later today.
(41:04):
But no, I'm not doing a leg. I'm not like,
you know, rewiring anything but basic stuff. Hey, the toilet's running,
I can do that, you know, I'll call you the
joy of being able. I do appreciate though, how establishing
you know the parents in this scene they get a
real life blue callar. You know, there's a sense of
like money is kind of you shoot, it's not just
(41:25):
like because some sitcoms, that's not that's removed. My money
is just removed. Other sitcoms like Rosanne was like money
was obviously between you know, it's like, oh, you own
this grocery store. I'm assuming you know, like the manager manager. Okay, great,
so yeah, but you know there there there's also that
sarcastic line like that you deliver to Betsy is like
remember when we were before, before we knew each other,
(41:48):
when we were happy, and you know that is like
classic sitcom banter. But it also does establish the sort
of level that this that this family lives at, you know,
which I like. I think it's it's it's a good
because we're in Philadelphia, but we're kind of in the suburbs.
It definitely feels like the suburbs of are quite explain where,
you know. But I also like though that they're also
establishing that the parents have a real work ethic. So
(42:11):
it's like if you want to buy something, get a
job and go and buy something, And that's I think
something that's that's lost a little bit on certain generations.
So I like that that was still written into the
show where it's like, hey, you got that watch where'd
you get it? Well, I earned the money. And there's
even the line where Eric says, Dad said to me,
it's my money. I get to spend it the way
I want to. And it's I like that. It's like,
(42:31):
that's your money. You've earned it. Now you can go
do with it what you want. And you don't see
that a lot on sitcoms either, So that was that
was cool. Yeah, so go make some money and give
it me exactly. Okay, So this is the first time
where Alan specifically mentions because Corey says he wants a job.
(42:51):
He comes down, he's like, hey, my brother has a job.
He gets to spend his money, then why can't I
get a job? And this is the first time where
you get to deliver the moral of the story from
the adult perspective, really is No, your job is to
be a kid, and and that is just as important
of a job as any other job that we all have.
And once it's gone, you cannot get it back, unlike
(43:14):
a real job, where once one job goes you could
always go get another job. Being a kid is such
a temporary and very fleeting thing, although when you are
a kid it feels like it's never gonna be over
my my like, this is today while we're recording, this
is my son's last day of first grade. Gosh, and
he could not come sooner. He thought this is was
(43:34):
the longest year ever, Like, oh my god, you know
how this is flown by? I believe you're done with
first grade? Stop? Slow down? It does it happened? I mean,
I remember my whole life. I wanted to be thirty,
and now thirty is eleven years behind me. And I
do still love aging. I don't have a problem with aging.
I do. I think life gets better as you get older,
assuming you're willing to, you know, assuming you're actually growing
(43:56):
and evolving and learning and becoming a different person. Life
has just continues to get better the more you know. Um,
but boy, I just felt like, you know, I remember
at the beginning of a school year and being like, well, yeah,
we'll do that next summer, being like the next summer
never going to be here forever? Is there is there
some sort of irony about a show about how you
(44:17):
have to be a kid and stay a kid as
long as you can. That's starring a kid actor who's
got the entire way to the world on his shoulders.
But that's what I mean, just talk about how he
runs everything, and the whole episode is about you gotta
keep being a kid. And it's like, except you, Ben,
because you gotta make money. Yeah exactly. Now go to
(44:37):
school and now come back and keep the four hundred
people on the cast crew and everything employed. Ben, So
be a kid. There's something disturb menywhere it's like, you
know that was the moral is everybody you need to
keep your childhood except for you Ben. You gotta get
back to you. Yeah, Rusty, did you ever talk to
the writers about your character, your storylines, lines you wrote?
(44:58):
What was your relationship with them? Like is it related
to every week's episode? I have to say I had
a great uh rapport with the writers. They were terrific writers,
and you know, I loved you know, I knew that
they were always trying to find the funny, you know,
but they're also going for a heart of the matter.
And that's what I was always trying to go, well,
(45:19):
what is this scene really about besides this joke? And
there and Michael I have to say, I mean, to
his his his credit, he always was saying, well, it's
about this, about this, and then if we can lay
a joke on it, or we find it in a
funny way that we like, then we'll do it. So
(45:40):
I had, you know, I loved the writers and I loved,
as I say, the tapings and watching you kids all
the time. And once in a while is something to
come up and I kind of tork my ears and
though it doesn't really quite sound writer doesn't quite work,
and hopefully I would talk to you guys and say,
you know, let's try this. What's this about? That not working? Yell,
let's try it another way, you know. I mean, that
(46:02):
was what the rehearsal was about, was want to discovery
what is this about? You know, That's definitely something I
learned literally, like my very first week and then continue
to learn every week thereafter. Was like truly breaking down
a script from every character's perspective, What is this about
(46:24):
for you? What is this about for you? What is
this about for you? Because from every character's perspective, it's
a little bit different. And obviously the you know, as
we're seeing with Indie, Indie is seeing it through the
Corey eyes. He truly is the Corey character. Um. But
like I breaking down a script and for the actor
to know I am responding and reacting this way in
(46:47):
this scene because for me, what this is about right
now is this, and that's because of what just happened before.
And I don't know what's going to happen in the future,
but in the future, this is going to happen because
of what's happening right now, and good writing accommodates that
bad doesn't. And I feel like one of the things
that separated Boy's World from a lot of other sitcoms
was that Michael Jacobs wanted answers. He didn't mind every
(47:09):
character having their perspective and an arc, whereas I could
see on other shows they'd just be like, because it's funny. Yeah,
there is not a wasted moment. The Superman banter in
the beginning, which seems like the most casual I didn't
write it down when I went because I didn't think
it was important to the show is easy banter, and
(47:30):
then it made me cry. Exactly this scene that we're
still talking about because we're only on scene three, him
fixing the sink comes back when Amy grabs it as
her score kind of the in the it's like unbelievable.
There's not a wasted line there's not a wasted physical move,
and this is like, this show is tight, but this
is what it's about. This is about going back and
(47:51):
watching it as adults and finding being able to appreciate
actually that everything went into this little show that we
were like, well, but now I'm sneezing the lottery numbers.
But there's a but it is and that's what makes
actually great movies, great books, great any of you as
I get older, as you get older, I mean, you
(48:11):
see why this works. And then the use that you
use the very important term there's nothing wasted. Everything is
there for a moment. There's nothing you know, superfluous to
what's going on. I mean, and you can look at
Lawrence of Arabia movie most like that, and you'll see
(48:31):
every moment leads to the next and continues as a story,
as does Boy Meets World or a good writing which
is which is pretty incredible actually, and it's it's one
of those things where I was constantly amazed. So we'll
talk about nothing wasted. There's one moment which I'm not
sure we've gotten back to, because obviously there's several through
lines that go through here. Mr Feenie always throws one
(48:53):
in In this case, Alan Threw went in about being
a kid um. But one of the things that I
was surprised they kind of mixed literary references because he
talks about the Raven and so I was like, oh,
how's the raven gonna come back? And it never did.
And then they jumped to Tom Sawyer. And that's why
(49:13):
I was like, okay, so waiting, how well that okay,
so something I'm thinking, No, I'm not going to make
the connection. I'm I do. It's it's interesting to me
watching the pilot and this how much Phoenie is sort
of a caricature of culture, you know what I mean,
He's such this refined cultural guy and so those, yeah,
(49:37):
those references I think are kind of hokey. Actually, Like
that's one of my least favorite parts because there's the
Tom Sawyer one is great because you could see but
you know, I just think it's interested like Phoenie is
just you know, it's like the Western cannon. It's just
like every time he opens his mouth, he's going to
make a reference like Emily Dickinson Black. It's like every exactly.
(50:02):
Let's keep tracking because I think it's so funny. But
you know, it is how in eleven year old sees
right these cultures, you know. But yeah, I I find
it funny that it's like he can't open his mouth
with a name dropping some awesome that's the new thing.
It is there. It was very but I was waiting
for that to come back, like, Okay, he specifically mentions
(50:24):
the Raven. That's not just gonna be dangling. They're going
to bring them. Oh no, they didn't. That just was
just the thing, like I don't know, So it was
that I found interesting. But then of course they worked
in Tom Sawyer and then you also get the great
Lee line, which will get but they is like, am
I the only one who read the Summer Zyllabus? You know,
because we always would get them and you never read
them everything. Probably read them, every single one. That's the
(50:48):
point of the mention of the Raven and Tom Sawyer. Yeah,
no one read them. That's why. Exactly. So we're in
the backyard. We see Phoene he's he's trimed his roses. Uh.
Corey offers to help. Uh. Phoeny says, no, stay away
from the roses. But Corey asks for fifty dollars in
advance to shovel snow in the winter, and Phoenie says no,
(51:12):
but he does need his shutters painted. And then we
get a little math joke. He was willing to pay him.
It was so funny. He's willing to pay him eighty bucks,
but he tells him he's willing to pay him five dollars.
Five dollars. Five dollars was five times two times eight
times eight and there were eight shutters or something, and
(51:34):
he was willing whatever, and it was gonna be eighty bucks.
But you see Corey go through the math and he
comes up with fifty eight bucks, and Phoeny says, deal,
fifty eight bucks. I'll pay a fifty eight bucks for it,
which is fine with Corey because all he needs is
fifty to buy his water gun. Um. So that's a
great joke though, how even even the teacher is like,
if you're not going to do the math, you're not
(51:56):
going to correct you to pay you more. Well, it's
actually it leads to a really funny joke where he says,
you earned every cent of that s plus I gave
you in math, which is really great. Um. The quintessential
like line for me that um that surprised me get
a pulse, so like a kind of obnoxious kid, but
(52:17):
it comes back. That's what I mean. That is that
I wrote down. It's like, what is this? I forgot
this aspect of our show. Get We're still in the backyard.
(52:38):
Corey paints all the shutters and Phoeney pays him the money.
The shutters look great. Everybody's impressed. But once they move
the shutters happened. Alan notices that Corey has painted the
shutters against the fence and their side of the fence. Now,
the Matthew side of the fence is now zebra print
(52:58):
basically with green paint, and Corey cannot go to the
water War because he has to fix the fence. By
the way Indie's restaurants, it looks better that way. It's
like the zebra thing is cool, the stripes are great.
Why don't they just leave it? I was like, it
seems you're kind of right, dude. Yeah, so um uh.
Corey's obviously bummed. He's like, what the sucks? I really
(53:21):
wanted to go to the water War. He has to stay.
Um and we're back in the kitchen. This is where
Lily Uh is tying your apron because we see you
going to work, going Eric going to work and doing
the little boat tip. So this is as I was
watching this, this reminded me of again what Michael was
clearly trying to do. He was trying to find the
(53:43):
pairs and the teams that were going to work. So
for for a good six or seven episodes, they were
trying to make Eric and uh Morgan a thing. Um.
They were trying to make you know, Corey and Corey
was there for everybody, but were trying to pair people
up where it was going to be like, let's see
(54:03):
what teams work which. Again, by the end, you know,
middle midway through season one or two, it was all
of a sudden it was Eric and Peeney like. So
they were trying to see what season one is. When
you guys, nail, it's when we started. We started to
get there. But you could tell they were trying to
see which teams have the chemist. And one of the
(54:24):
coolest things I ever heard about this was was Family
Guy Seth MacFarland talks about this where he's like, the
idea when we started the show that the show was
going to end up being Stewie and Brian is ridiculous.
There's like, there's no way the dog and the baby
are going to run the show. He's like, and then
you start to let the actors go, and all of
a sudden, the characters, the characters they matched the way
they're supposed to match. So this is the start of
(54:46):
them going like, all right, here's the Eric Morgan scene,
because this is gonna be a thing. And um, you
know this is essentially why the death chair was there, right,
It is because they were trying to find that character
that would pop and you know that chemistry they're just
trying to find. Yeah, and I mean it was great.
I think until Tapanga shows up the whole thing. Japanga
(55:06):
showing up changes the whole thing. Um. But yeah, So
it was working with with Lily was wonderful. She was
a ton of fun to work with a little kid,
and she she would love to, you know, make jokes
and and always had a big smile on her face.
Jumping ahead, Rusty while we have you here. Eventually Lily
gets swapped out. We replaced Lily nix A with Lindsay Ridgeway.
What is what was your what's your memory of that time?
(55:31):
Because you know, I think we all have different perspective
perspectives of it based on how much we were working
or what we saw at the time. What was your
perspective of what was going on around that time? Well,
I think there was um some issues that had to
do with growing up, and it's possible Lily didn't necessarily
(55:51):
want to be a child actor. Yeah, I think I'm
not sure. She was very happy at the time, and
Michael Jacobs, to his credit, could see that. He and
they decided what was best personally, Yeah, for for her
was to let her go, was to you know, let
her try something else, you know, somewhere else. And I
(56:12):
think that's really what it was about. Yeah, how many
seasons did we go without? I was gonna say she
wasn't really replaced at first. It was just they got
rid of the character. They just knowledge one day Lily
was gone, and then Lindsay was there. It's like Lily
was gone and started I know, but but it just
wasn't mentioned and then and then and then they to
bring the character back because what we were talking about
(56:33):
where it was a whole another dynamic of the show
and a whole another audience of the show. So it's
like they need to bring her back. And then they
made a joke about it, and then Lindsey walks down.
It was in my room for a really long time,
very long time out. Yeah, you know, this is coming
back from what they're feeling from audiences. Yeah, you know.
I mean, nothing's done in a vacuum, and then you
(56:56):
find what a lot of funds you don't know do
you do it? It's like everything, you try it and
see what's working or not. And that's the that's the
the the interesting thing about doing a TV show every week,
as opposed to a movie where you just do it
and put it out there and see what's happening. Then
you can edit with it. But every week you have
this living, growing thing that you're taking information from from
(57:19):
the audience, from the writers, seeing how it moves. Yeah,
she's so, she's so naturally funny. She was, and she's
just cute as a button. I know. We talked about
it in the first episode. Just didn't want to be there. Yeah,
I mean we and I don't think at first, not
at this point, not at this point, at this point,
but but later she was she was like six again
when we were talking about the pressure, you really have
(57:41):
to want it because it is it's a lot, it's
a lot on your shoulders. And she was six years old,
six and yeah, I think I think eventually she just
got to a point where she was like, this isn't
as fun as you guys all think you always had fun,
and hopefully that's why you're still here because it's fun. Yeah, exactly. Okay.
So Corey then comes into the kitchen. He grabs ice
cream bars for his friends who are outside because he's
(58:03):
tried to sucker them into painting the fence. Yeah he's suckering. Yeah,
but he suckered you into it with with money he's
paying you. Um, and I love this he hands uh,
I love Lee, saying he really prefers a heath bar crunch.
I think that's very funny, and dipping it in the dirt,
(58:24):
putting a handful of dirt on it. Here, chew on that. Okay.
So then the friends leave, writer or did you have
any have a lawyer called my mom? I didn't remember that.
I was like, all right, Sean, stuff, I think this
scene too. I wanted to the blocking in this show.
I find so much more interesting than what we do
(58:46):
in today's day and age. As a director of kids TV,
now I am We're often limited by everybody wants to
see two eyeballs at all times, and nobody wants anything
in front of anybody's face. You're all the way upstage,
practically behind a tree when you deliver the line have
your lawyer called my mom. And I love it your body.
(59:09):
I also know that you get to see our feet
all the time. I was freaking out about how the sneakers.
I was like, these are cool. I remember those wearing
cool monarchs. In the scene where he's fixing under the sink,
by the ways under the sink, I could barely even
see one eye. And I love it. It feels like
I'm watching it's a real family. Multicam used to be
more stage like, and it's gotten back then was better, Yes, yeah,
(59:32):
I mean watch Cheers. Cheers was shot on film and
it's beautiful and it feels like it feels like a
filmed play and you get to watch actors use their
body their hands. Nowadays, multy cam ye, but nowadays MALTI
a beautiful set when some of them. But nowadays multi
cam is emulating single cameras so often, and that we've
(59:54):
we've we've come to expect. I think too much of
it or certain, And I don't think audiences care. I
don't think to care. I think executive scared exactly. I
don't think kids are like I didn't think that was
funny because I could only see one of their eye
most In fact, they I think being able to see
actors a little distanced and a little it is. Actually
it's it's more involving the fourth wall on so many
(01:00:15):
shows that people are talking right to the camera, like
literally directly to the camera that now just seeing half
of their face doesn't do it anymore, and it's like
come on, So yeah, very strange. Yeah, I noticed that,
especially in that scene. I was like, man to be
able to play with the whole set. Yeah, that's that
back space was not wasted. We're on a sitcom set now,
would be like, well, we can't do is that? That's
(01:00:35):
an interesting question, Rusty. Was there a set that you
preferred shooting in over another set, because I remember, like
the living room set when we would shoot there, it
seemed like we had a lot more to play with
than they when they would throw us in, say the
bedroom set. So was there a set where it was like, yeah,
this is there's this is more freeing to me to
think if I liked anything, I like the outside, the backyard. Yeah,
(01:00:58):
like that. What else you have to take? You account
that a lot of people are saying, well, you're not
gonna see this when you're watching it on your phone. Right.
The screens are in one sense bigger, right, and then
on the other sense they're smaller. You know, people looking
on their gigantic screen at home from Costco, and then
they're also looking at the phone on the subway. I
(01:01:20):
never understood people that had big screens. We'll talk about Okay,
So Corey is alone. His friends have left, they've gone
to the water war. He's Corey still has more coats
to do on the fence. Uh. Alan comes back from work.
He's had a long day. Your tie is undone, that's
(01:01:40):
how we know you've had a long day. And uh
Phoene comes out and says that when he was a kid,
he was worked from sun up to sundown and that's
the way Alan should be handling things with Corey. And
he goes inside. This was an interesting dynamic. Yeah, the
difference between Phoenie as authority and Dada's authority. I really
appreciate yea because I I in my mind it was
like Phoenie's never wrong. But here's episode one, basically episode two,
(01:02:04):
like the show went, I Phenie wasn't exactly right, Like
that's cool, Like he he gave advice that was not
horrible advice, but like here here Alan's going to take
in a different direction. I really appreciated that. Yeah, adults
who disagree politely different totally and you and you're you
just your your heart just goes right to Rusty. And
I like the I like the idea that, like the
(01:02:27):
subtext for Rusty is really like you get him all
day at school. He's on my side of the fence
now and I get and I'm going to handle it
my way, which was, you know, pick Corey up from
laying on the floor and telling him that he should
stay eleven years old for as long as he possibly can.
And he didn't want him to be like Phenie didn't
want to work him. Son up to sundown, go play,
and you send him off to go to the water
(01:02:48):
war and you take over painting the fence for Corey.
And if we're totally honest after watching the episode, there's
barely any left to paint and multiple clote they have
to do. I mean, it's it's like, there's fifteen minutes
worth of work. Hey, dude, have you spent a day
managing a grocery? You know, yes, I know, but I
(01:03:11):
mean it's you know I'm saying for for Corey, It's like,
there's you've got fifteen minutes worth of work left there.
Twenty minutes. Oh my god, dude. I mean having a
seven year old and I know it's not going to
be any better when I'm like asking him to pick
up his shoes as a twenty minute battle. So, you know,
like getting a kid to paint a fense at eleven.
It was also talk about why not just put a
(01:03:31):
thing behind the thing and use the actual paint sprayer
before he had a sprayer of the first time. Now
all of a sudden he decides to go go with
one brush. Come on, this is a terrible show. Let's
be honest. They have to put the tarp between it
and the roses. And as you saw, based on how
Mr Fini's protected, he wouldn't. He wouldn't let that happen,
so they wouldn't. That's the real reason why they couldn't.
(01:03:52):
Back then, he had to do it by hand. Look
at look at Rusty Allen's got the tie on day.
How we know he's had a long day. Days over
just amazing. Welling about the dynamic between Phoenie and Alan.
Also is that Phoenie has no children. Yeah, he's not
a parent. You're right, he's a teacher. Yeah, And there's
always the thing to the writer's credit, there's this certain
(01:04:13):
kind of app but what it really comes to children. Yeah,
that's where Alan comes in. That's interesting, that's really interesting.
Has two sort of sources of authority that are he's
very different, different He's taught kids his whole life, but
he's never raised And there is nothing like raising a child.
(01:04:36):
There's there's there you could you could couldn't explain it
to somebody, sure if you tried. And so there is
the things the way the parent I was before I
had children is a totally different parent than I was
after I had children, because I was in my mind
I was a well when I have children, and well,
well if I was that child's parents and now are yeah,
(01:04:56):
you do. And you see talk about you know, finding
out your laws and and them just being a mirror
to the things you still have left to work on.
It is it is one of those things. So yeah,
they're definitely phoene pick such a good call. And being
a good parent is so different than being a good teacher.
You can be great at one and awful at the other,
and being a parent of one child it's a lot
different than being a parent of a lot of ways better. Yeah, otherwise,
(01:05:22):
quadrupled to work. I'm going to have five of my
own way any time? Will anytime? No, thank you? Yes,
this is where spill on Aisle seven. That was seven.
(01:05:46):
I don't know I thought I wrote down, but I
do remember. This was one of those lines we used
to say all at the time. Yeah, it was. It was,
and it was just like Eric's like I had to
box things today. It was half a half a ship shift.
Yeah it was. It was crazy that this we haven't
We hadn't really found the Eric Matthew's character yet. So
none of them, myself, the writers, we didn't. Yeah, exactly
(01:06:10):
exactly insert teen well teen at work here, you know,
teen lying on bed tired kind of thing. Also, if
you think about it, like teen has been at school,
team teen is still I guess maybe it's summer were
you're not in school? Do they really well know? It
must have been because yeah, so you had gone to school.
You had also you were also working. I'm assuming the
water war was a weekend, but still like working half
(01:06:32):
a shift when you're fifteen or sixteen years it is
kind of from your perspective, you do feel like, I'm exast.
Nobody's ever worked this hard, and there man, my feet
are killing me. But it was also that was at
this point other than a line here there Eric was
the bedroom. Yes, I mean that was it. It was
(01:06:52):
like my room. Yes, that's it. That was the blocking.
It was like I didn't like that sunthing. I like
that sty It was an uncomfortable set. It was an
uncomfortable set. It was also logistically, and I know this
sounds ridiculous, it was all the way down at the
end of the stage. It was not in front of
the audience. It was and there's two beds. It was.
(01:07:15):
And it wasn't until later that we actually started to
utilize the entire set, like using the bathroom, like entering
and exiting out of the bathroom, rolling in and out
of the window, using the entire the entire set um.
It was usually just that was like, okay, Eric, put
Eric in the bedroom. Eric, bedroom set so it was,
and then I'd come down and have one line like, oh,
that's right, you play my dad, and then I'd walk
(01:07:36):
out and that way, and then they'd have a scene.
So it was everybody's still finding themselves. Still the world's fun.
We get another through the window shot. Well, in the
last episode it was from the treehouse to Phoene's, but
now we get from the bedroom window down into the
backyard where we see Alan is still painting its sundown.
(01:07:58):
The water wars over and he's still painting Superdad. And
that conversation that I didn't even write down because I
didn't think it was important to the episode from the
cold open about what kind of super which, which superhero
would you want your dad to be? Comes back? Just
killed me too. I actually teered. Yeah, I teered up too.
(01:08:18):
They didn't dropped, Okay, so we should keep track. Yeah,
I'm sure did not fall. My eyes curled up, and
I found myself kind of embarrassed, and I didn't know
if I wanted Indie to see. But yeah, so that
didn't drop down the cheek yet. I'm just sure that
will happen. But let's we'll keep trash. I thought I
was just like the biggest. I'm welling up thinking about
(01:08:41):
it now. One well up. We got one well up,
one up, one one well up. No, no tear drop,
but one well up. If you're keeping keeping tally out there,
we're gonna get to ugly cry by season seven, Yeah, exactly.
The episode was just so sweet honey coming in and
but yeah, it was just so it was just so touching.
Again talking about the blocking, I think that's just I
(01:09:02):
love that we utilized the different you know, from the
window into the backyard, from the treehouse into Phoene's yard. Uh,
that was early and that was good. Well, I know,
I think it was better. We'll have to see. We
could be wrong. We could be like, oh my gother
in every episode, how do we not remember this? And
then we get into the last scene of the show,
which is just again another time. The welling up continued
(01:09:24):
for me into this scene where you get to see
little twelve year old Corey be so thoughtful. He has
turned in his big water gun that he wanted so badly.
He has turned it in for two smaller water guns
because he saw earlier in the episode that his dad
thought the water gun was cool and he wants them
(01:09:45):
to play together with it, and he's got it under
he's got it under the table. And I loved Rusty
your performance, especially in this scene because I was thinking
it was going to be a very oh wow water
gun and now they're just for it. In my head
as a mom, who is um you know hey, now
now that's definitely the kind of parent I am. I
(01:10:07):
that was your reaction. You didn't find out right away
that there was a water gun and and think, oh, sure,
this is all fun. Look look for TV. We're just
gonna have a water fight. No house, You're like, no,
we don't do this here, and Corey has he has
to really make an argument about yeah, and visiting childhood again,
that idea that you don't ever get to go back
(01:10:28):
to it to live, but you can come and visit
it over. You can visit childhood again. Um, what do
you remember about this water fight scene? Was it? Did
you guys practice during rehearsal? Did you did you actually
do it for run through? Use real water guns? Think
we used real guns during I don't think water wasn't
like a big technical thing, right, I mean you have
(01:10:50):
four cameras, they're going to see everything you're doing. Yeah, No,
I think it was we're excited about. I mean, to me,
that's the fun. Yeah, you know, let's do the unthinkable
or maybe the different, you know, and I'm let's just
do it. And a lot of times stuff like that
behavior comes out of the actual you know, you're actually
(01:11:12):
doing it, shooting getting wet um. That was always a
fun for me, and the show was actually doing half
the stuff we did. Yeah, you know, the actual doing
of it. So I'm always ready to do that as
long as wardrobes ready. Yeah they are ready. Yeah, it
(01:11:32):
was fun. I I just I love the scene and
then I love the joke too that he's like, well, mom,
why don't you look under your scene? And she's like
there's nothing there. He goes, what do you think I
made of money? Money? Yeah, that's cracked me up. You
should have mentioned from the scene before I wrote it down.
I think they tried to make it a thing. Ben
always going you do that, tried to be that's right.
(01:11:58):
He did that for like one or two episodes, and
I think I went, you're not going to be wait
what he says that back back with the in the
bedroom with you, right? Is it in the bedroom somewhere? Yes? Yeah,
it's um, I do remember they were always trying to
like find catch phrases. There was there's a couple of
times in the next few episodes where he puts his
hands on his shoulder or splits his hands on his
hips and says, I'm such they tried to make you
(01:12:22):
do a thing you do I do, like, remember you
think you think that we were one of the first
people to do you think? And then they're like, no,
we tried catchphrases, and then the yeah what you knew?
That was another one, and then the catchphrases that actually lasted.
We didn't even know where catchphrases, which is the way
it works, which is how it was. But yeah, it's interesting,
Like in retrospect, I would never just show shows Michael
(01:12:46):
Jacob's experience that like if we can get a catchphrase,
would be good because it gives you a touch stand
before branding exactly. Yeah, okay, So then it turns into
a whole family water fight and the hose comes back.
It was it wasn't it was weak water. But since
Alan fixed exactly and full circle, the parents relax and
(01:13:09):
we let the water fights start in the house and
then it runs out into the backyard, and uh, we
have a tag. I love a good tag. This was
a greatfect. She was really really good in this tag.
I thought she is absolutely adorable, the way she crosses
her legs. She has the phone, so thanks to Indie
from our segment to the phone. Did she get the phone?
(01:13:30):
Good question? Unless it's on the counter. I don't think
it's on the counter. How did she get on the counter?
Did we see somebody put her on the counter. And
somebody puts her on the counter and then they run outside,
and so she's stuck there. That's why she calls one, right, right,
But Indie was right, how did she get the phone? Yeah?
How did she get the phone? And it was in
her pocket already? Yeah, yeah, that huge, enormous phone, the
giant Yeah, and then she got the neighbor. Was just hysterical,
(01:13:56):
I thought, yeah, this was Indie was dying during this
saying she was great, She was great. Yeah, they just
shot the neighbor is a classic one. That and the
you deserve every inch of that c plus I gave
you in math or two of my two of my
favorite lines from from that episode. Well, Rusty, you're a gem.
(01:14:18):
Thank you for joining us. You have any final thoughts.
Do you have any final thoughts on the episode or
just about the experience in general. I'm eternally grateful to
work with you guys and the writers and being a
part of it. It's been as thrilling and as wonderful
(01:14:39):
and experience as I couldn't not possibly imagine I was
going to say when it started. I mean, you were like, oh,
what is the sitcom? Thanks all. I always say, you know,
you never know. You have to try things Dorby sometimes,
but that that line is still resonating with me. From
(01:14:59):
the last episode. Russy said you can bang your head
all day long against door ay, and if Dorby opens
and you don't go into it, then you're an idiot.
And yeah, absolutely true. That it's stuck with me since
he said it. You have to sometimes it's about taking Doorby.
Sometimes it's about taking Doorby. And we all benefited from
your Doorby that. Thank oh man, thank God, and my privilege,
(01:15:23):
my privilege. Well you made it a lot easier on
a lot of us young actors out there. Taught us
how to. That's one of the things I've constantly told
people is that you and Bill and Betsy Um really
taught us how to help to teach us how to
be professionals, help to teach us how to have still
have fun. And it was it would often the lessons
you were teaching as Alan often mirrored in the lessons
(01:15:45):
that you taught us on the set. So I love
you and I'm just so glad that you were there
for all of this. Bill. Bill is our next podcast guest.
He is going to be joining us for episode number
one oh three, Father Knows Less Us it sounds like
another Yeah, So Bill and Bonnie will be joining us
(01:16:07):
for episode one oh three Father Knows Less. Also a
special thank you to Kyle from Typhoon, who is responsible
for our wonderful Pod meets World theme song. Yeah. Kyle
Morton of the band Typhoon, who I've been friends with
for ten years at this point. He played at your
wedding where I met him. It's a long story, but yeah,
(01:16:28):
he's incredible. He's a musical genius and directed a music video.
I directed a music video for them last year, very insane,
and his writing is just next level both lyrically insane,
but I also musically he's incredible and has written stuff
for me before, and I was like, Hey, could you
possibly come up with something for our podcast, and he
(01:16:48):
did it in like two days. When we started talking
about what we wanted for a theme, song writer immediately
had a great just a bunch of ideas and he
was like, I think we could do this and it
could be kind of weird and reminiscent in Nostalgic and
Dalla La. He was like, I'm I'm gonna see if
Kyle wants to do it, and then uh, he turned
that around for us in less than twenty four hours.
It was also like right, or what that's a very
jumblie What could you possibly could all those things? How
(01:17:10):
would somebody put that in a song? And then and
then like two days there was like, oh, that's exactly what. Right.
It's funny because I played it for you know, a
couple of people and I was like, what do you
what does this make you think of? Like not telling
them what the context what I said. Some of the
answers I got were makes me think of the nineties,
which I was like really, And then another person was like,
it has this like early two thousand's sort of filtered sound,
(01:17:33):
like something that is coming. I was like, that's it,
that's what. Yeah. Because I Basically I told Kyle was like,
could it sound like we're listening to the past coming
into the present, like a theme song from the past
coming into the present, and he really Thank you to
Kyle Morton of Film for our theme song. Be sure
to join us on Instagram Pod Meets World Show and
also send us your emails, send us your questions, your thoughts,
(01:17:55):
feedback on the show. What you want to hear more of,
what you want to hear less of? All right, final,
shut up. It's ad meets World Show at gmail dot com.
And yeah, next week Bill Daniels episode number one oh three,
father knows less. We'll see you there. Um oh, I
get to say this time, don't night It's your turn
one more Thanks to Rusty, We love you all, pod dismissed.
(01:18:16):
Pod Meets World is an I heeart podcast produced and
hosted by Daniel Fisher, wilfredel and writer Strong Executive producers
Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production,
Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Sudbach, producer The Rain
Verruez engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen.
Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow
(01:18:37):
us on Instagram at Pod meets World Show, or email
us at Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com.