October 28, 2025 • 52 mins
From following the white loth-cat to escaping Garel to shoutouts with the Empire (again) and all of Ezra's complicated grief; this episode was packed with both action and all the feels. And was there a possible nod to The Matrix?? We're here to unwrap it all!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When your shows alone put so much emotionality into a
young character, just any show. And then two, when does
it happen in the animator? Because I can't, like I
think of anything from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do they go that far? Like your parents?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Die?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Everyone, it's tsur Car voice of Sabine Wren, Specter five,
and with us we.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Have what's up guys, Taylor Gray, Ezra Bridgie here Specter six.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We also have with.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Us, Hey, everybody, it's John Lee Brody, your friendly neighborhood moderator.
And today more hot takes. I'm the last Jedi. No,
I'm kidding or maybe you never know, but actually we
are going over Star Wars Rebels Season two, Episode eleven, Legacy.
But first, as always, it's family checking time. How is
everybody doing?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Did the last Jedi one drop?
Speaker 6 (01:03):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yes, yeah, it's actually been pretty chill so far, so
I mean, yeah, yeah, but we'll see. It's still early
in the day, still.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Early, stay tuned till next time, right, Well, in that case,
I'm good.
Speaker 7 (01:15):
Yeah, so far.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
So good, so far, so far. How is everybody doing?
Speaker 8 (01:20):
Though I definitely haven't slept in like two weeks, so
we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 7 (01:26):
With moving and everything.
Speaker 8 (01:28):
And I definitely I unearthed some treasures from the very
start of Star Wars Rebels and would love to share them.
I'll describe them for those listening. But yeah, it's it's
been a Moving is one of the top stressors, so
I don't recommend it, but it's worth it ultimately. But
other than that, completely fine. Oh and I had my birthday.
(01:50):
Thank you everyone for a birthday wish.
Speaker 7 (01:54):
Happy Yeah, so all is well.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Do you feel like a renewed energy in your new placement?
Speaker 7 (02:00):
Oh my gosh, I've never been happier in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Amazing, that's always fantastic. Yeah. I just meditated I'm filling
like a million bucks.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Ooh. That that kind of goes on on brand with
some of the stuff Ezra has going on in this
episode is all astral projecting and meditating like he's Leonardo
in the nineteen ninety Ninja Turtles movie if you know,
you know, But is.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That going to be in the recap?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
No, no, it's not. I went more. Yeah, this one
was pretty admittedly light on some of those pop culture references,
and that one just came to me now once you
said meditation, and I thought of Leonardo in the woods,
going like splinter, you know that whole thing.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Well, I can't wait. I as I was watching this episode,
I was like, Oh, what's John gonna come up with?
Speaker 7 (02:45):
This time? It's small?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
This was heavy stuff, very emotional watching this.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
It's a pretty short recap because because of the heavy stuff,
because there's a lot of stuff to unpack, so why
don't why don't we just get into it? And also
to our listeners when we do family check in time,
you are part of the family, so we are checking
in with you. Also, I know that we can't hear
you as you're talking back to the podcast, but comments
are open on Spotify. We see some of them and
(03:11):
there's some very nice ones on there, and you can
utilize that the check in with us or our social media.
So just fii. The check in is also inclusive to
all of you listening because you're all part of the
Rebels family.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Right, That's exactly right? Hit us up, let us.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Know absolutely all right, So here we go. Star Wars
Rebel Season two, episode eleven, Legacy original air date December ninth,
twenty fifteen, Written by Henry Gilroy. We gave the flowers
to Melching a couple weeks ago, and we haven't. We've
mentioned Henry, but we haven't really given his flowers. And
this is someone who also is a i say, a
(03:46):
legendary writer in the animation space. It's done a lot
of prolific work. He wrote My Fate, one of my
favorite television episodes ever, which was in the Batman Animated series.
It was like the Scarecrow episode where Batman had to
face his fear of letting his parents down. It was
a really cool episode. And so Henry goes way back
with the world of animation, and we thought we would
just throw some flowers his way, because I do think
(04:07):
he listens to the podcast. So now Henry, Okay, well good, no, Henry,
you've got any flowers.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
He's also not only is he a wonderful writer, he's
just a sweetie pie like he is just a great
a great guy in real life. So Hi, no, no.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
I love that. Well, here comes the recap for season
two episode eleven, Legacy. The episode has copious amounts of
action between the shootouts with stormtroopers and Callous, another visit
from the Inquisitive siblings, and a narrow escape from the
Empire as they storm Grell, and it's also packed with
a lot of emotional weight, fuel by Ezra having dreams
slash astral projections about his parents, leading him to believe
(04:47):
that they are alive. With the help of Canaan and
leading into his lout to zen mindset, Ezra uses his
forced clairvoyants to try and narrow downwards his parents might be,
and like Thomas Wolf in nineteen twenty nine, that very
clairvoyance leads to him looking home to Lathal. It is
there where a white loafcat guides on like armies in
Greek mythology, but it is Azra who is the trickster
here when he plants a tracker on their ever elusive
(05:08):
Totem spirit guide. This leads him and Cadaen to Writer Azzati.
Fun fact about Writer. In a past life, he was
the world's greatest criminal mind. More on that later. The
now exile former governor of Lathal is able to give
as their information on his parents, but it wasn't the
information he was hoping for. It's a lot for the
young Paddle want to take in, and it adds even
more complications who's already complicated grief, but he also gains
the wisdom of knowing that his parents, like his home
(05:29):
planet of Lethal, will always live through him and always
be with him. And that is the recap for season two,
episode eleven, Legacy brilliant.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I didn't understand one of your references.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Which one?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And now I'm like, oh, criminal lines, no Thomas Wolfe.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Oh, because you know Thomas Wolfe wrote you Can't Go
Home Again, But there was also Lakhomewer and Angel, so
look Homeward Angel was like, you're yearning for home and
then you can't go home again? Was the wisdom of
you can't. I can't go home again, because it's never
the same as when you're so sad. Yeah, he's he's
he's kind of a tragic figure because I think he
passed at like age thirty seven, so he never really
(06:09):
got the write his own ending to his own his
own life story. But uh, yeah, he's known for like
the Wanderer sort of theme, which is kind of Ezra.
You know Ezra's that he's JD. Salinger. It's all those things.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, thank you, thanks for that. I
was like, wait, I missed it.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
You know it, you know it. Now we know and
know he's had the battle. So what are our initial
thoughts with this very emotionally heavy episode, which, admittedly, when
I first saw it in twenty fifteen, I didn't I
wasn't in the great mindset to absorb all the emotionality.
But now watching it, I'm like, Wow, this is a
lot for young Ezra to have to process.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's so sad, you guys, the top of the episode
is just heartbreaking. And Taylor, it must I mean it
must have been you know, I don't know, challenging or
emotional to actually record this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, I remember being heavy, but I also remember telling
Dave the whole time like.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, we're so young. I was so young.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But like, up until that point, a lot of the
roles I played were always these like very emotional characters.
So that feel like the space And I don't know
why that is. It felt so much more familiar to
me than some of the like sort of sit comy
beats like the White look at It burned down. Like
at times I hear lines of this, I'm like, yeah, yeah, obviously,
(07:36):
like you don't have to say that, but that's the line,
like you don't really have a choice, and it can
be a bit light. But then this, I thought the
writing was so good. I thought Clancy was so good.
But then I was wondering, I clearly am not as well. First,
when do animated shows go so like when your shows
alone put so much emotionality into a young care just
(08:00):
any show? And then two, when does it happen in
the animator because I can't, like, I think of anything
from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob enough, Like, do
they go that far? Like your parents die?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 8 (08:18):
Maybe Young Justice and some of those things that are
more DC kind of heavy. Okay, have your adult well,
I mean there's still kids, but they kind of exkew.
For Young Justice, I played Black Canary. She was kind
of a therapist to the younger superheroes that are in
(08:40):
the Justice League, and she would help them through PTSD
and all kinds of identity crises and this and that,
and it helped a lot of people. I remember talking
to people at com Con saying how impactful it was
for I think it was beast Boy who had a
particular PTSD scene with me Black Canary his quote unquote,
(09:03):
well not literal therapist but I'm sort of a mentor
to them. But that got pretty heavy for a cartoon.
So it does happen, but I've for me personally at
this point watching this episode. I obviously we had no
idea what would happen with Canaan later on, but I
(09:25):
loved how Canaan was supporting you through this, and we
know eventually we're going to lose him, And I remember
Filoni saying, you know, we put that in the middle
of the season so that we could all heal together.
This felt sort of like a precursor to that eventual
loss as well. That this hit differently knowing what happens
(09:48):
later on for you, the very person who's comforting you
through this loss, you will lose him as well spoiler alert,
but that it just it resonated differently, knowing sort of
you know, on a rewatch if you will, as opposed.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
To it didn't. It didn't impact me as much as
it did this time.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
Somehow, it did impact me, but not as much as
it did last night.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
No.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Watching Pain and Guide Ezra through the Jedi mind trick
was I don't know, it really got me. Also, Freddy's
so good at that like balancing that I don't know
if there's like a there's like a gravitas to him
where he doesn't do too much and by not overdoing
(10:38):
it it is so much more impactful. I don't know.
I was trying as I was watching last night, I
was like trying to figure out how to describe it.
But I think you guys probably know what I mean.
I'm not being very eloquent about it, but he just
has this way of like towing the line of like
not being casual but not sort of like hitting it
(10:59):
too hard, and in doing so it feels so natural,
but also like it carries so much weight, you know,
his words and anyway, I thought that was really beautiful.
I just love all of the Ezra and Kanan interaction,
even the funny stuff, you know, like the what does
he say? And now we're chasing both cats and then
(11:20):
what do you says? Like the force is always you're sweet.
I like it because and then you know it's not
just like so heavy and so emotional. There's still moments
of levity and and fun and and that's that's Star Wars, right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's very Shakespearean.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
It's like, but it's that's that you just said, it's
Star Wars right, Like I was saying about so many
issues with parents in Star Wars.
Speaker 7 (11:49):
Right, Yeah, speaking with parents. Did you remember that d
was the voice of your father.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
I did.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I couldn't figure out. I was so f sit on Clancy.
I thought Clancy was so good.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
He's so good.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
His voice, just his the timbre of his voice is
just like Frankiss.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Dean was killing me because you know, he's the Imperial guy.
Then we cut he's Captain Rex. Then he's your dad.
I was like anything else.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I didn't know that, yeah, huh yeah. And then it
became John Cena's pet eagle on the peacemaker.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So he's he's the eagle speaks on the peacemaker.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Well, equally he makes the eagle noises or equally on peacemaker.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
If I needed to hire someone to make eagle sounds.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
D He's pretty much got the monopoly on that market.
I don't know anyone else that I could compete. But
Taylor to uh to your question earlier about animation kind
of going hard. If you look at the nineties Fox
Kids lineup, thatmant animated series, Superman animated series, which is
why I mentioned Greatest Criminal Mind because, as you all
(12:57):
know or may not know. Clancy Brown was the voice
Alex Luthor, and I would put him in like my
top five of Lex Luthor's of all time. But if
you watch like X Men ninety two, Batman Animated series,
Superman Animated series, that lineup, yeah it was. It was
the Fox Kids lineup, but they did it in like
two layers, which is really how Henry Gilroy writes as well.
He lies the layer up. We got to make sure
(13:18):
that this isn't going to alienate our younger audience and
stay true to what George Lucas had intended when he
made Star Wars. He wanted for kids. He wanted to
lighten what was going on in the world, but also
beneath that, you're going to get the deeper meanings. And
if you watch those older nineties cartoons, they one percent
do it. I watch it as an adult, like, man,
it's kind of fed up. I watched that as a
(13:39):
kid after school. I don't know ifellose, but like, you
don't understand that as a kid. Just as you get older,
you're like, oh wow, this this episode of Batman Animate
series was about more than him fighting crime. It was
about him kind of chasing his own shadow or dealing
with his grief and never come into never really being
at peace with his parents murdered and all that stuff.
(14:01):
But they don't put in the forefront for you like that,
but it is like there, so I would say, you know,
and you can certainly say that because Henry Gilroy does
come from that world of like the nineties animation, So
that would be my personal experience with it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, because it is.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It is very I'm in two minds about it because
one you have the sort of you don't want to
shelter children too much, but also you want to protect them.
And at the same time, it's important. The world is suffering,
the world is gnarly, and to be able to experience
it parallel to a story that's fictional that's through a screen,
that is huge. Know for me as a kid, like
(14:39):
a lot of reference you have are from things that
you watched, and that's important. But they do like some
of the lines I didn't remember how far they went,
but like it's sad, like they're telling them your parents
died and also your transmission they heard, and I was like,
geez man, like this is it's a kid and it's yeah,
(14:59):
that's like a lot. I don't know, you don't see
that all the time on any show really, So I
was like, Okay, they really wif right, And I think
Henry did a good or an incredible job tastefully writing it,
where like if I was at parents with my kids,
I'm like, that's like maybe good exposure therapy in a way.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I also thought, you know, I don't tend to compliment
you very often, Taylor, but I thought you really handled
all of this stuff really beautifully, like it was you know,
it was so I was so sad watching this stuff.
And then when you learn of your parents' fate, oh
my god, it's heart wrenching. But you don't do any
(15:40):
like it's it's just right. You don't do too much,
you don't do too little. It's like you're like Goldilocks
in this episode.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Thanks did did you find because you have I'm sure
we all have moments like this on the show, Like
this is what through me for just for a second.
Was I remember the first time we did it. Obviously
you're just breaking down naturally, but I remember dating like
it also has to be a bit audible, And I
was like, oh god, you're right, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
When I when I do that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not it's not necessarily I can be a bit hysterical,
but it's not that audible when I cry. And then
we've had to do this countless times on camera and
you see it and you feel it, but it's you're
not necessarily making the sound.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And then to.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Say okay, you're not forcing it, but like, okay, we're
also going to do this into a microphone. It becomes
something a little different, which is you're like, well, I
hope the way they animate it is you know what
I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
There's a technical component to it that you might not
otherwise have to do on camera.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Right, you would never think about it at least.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah, picking up your facial expressions, your body language. You know,
we don't need you to project like you might have
to on stage or in this case. Yeah, there's like
a different technical component to it. Well, I thought you did.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
Great, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Write it down on the calendar.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There we go. That's it. That's it first season two.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Well, well can do you can continue that in your
other podcast, you guys, and we'll go deeper into God.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I was like, I forgot what I was called. I
forgot what my other hit show is called.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
It's more like you guys.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Instead of hey dude, it's you guys.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Oh sorry sorry, sure, what you have to say is
much more important than I was.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
No, no, no, I was just going to piggyback on what
you were saying to you, because when I when I
watched this episode and I listened to all y'all's performances,
but with with Ezra had to go through, it's like
a mix of adrenaline anticipation, with which is layered with heartbreak,
which goes into the layering of how you know, a
lot of these really great shows and made it with
live action are just written and uh and it's just
(17:53):
like you just felt every bit of it. It's just
you know, you don't see what happens. But is the
fact that his parents were alive that whole time you
think through season one, his parents were alive that whole time,
like wait what? And then they heard your voice and
they knew it was you. So it's like, that's so
much the pros.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And that like your transmission, Ezra's transmission was the catalyst
for this event, and that they didn't make it out.
Speaker 9 (18:18):
Y'all, that is really wrenching, like the whole and then
you know, the idea that you hadn't seen them for years.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I mean you were on your own as this young kid,
like just trying to survive, and that you guys were
just so close, like you you know, like that it
was that what happened to them was so recent and
I mean that's really that's really tough.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And we know, like in Star Wars, the theme of sacrifices,
like the ultimate that's enlightenment, that's the selflessness, like the
natural thoughts come flooding in of like during that scene,
you're going like, well, what if I just didn't send
this transmission, maybe they still would be alive. It's my
fault because we always want to take blame. And you're like,
well no, but you it's doing good for the world
(19:01):
and what matters more. And you're like, god, that for anyone.
That's heavy. But then when you make it a like
a teenager, you're like, oh god.
Speaker 7 (19:11):
Yeah, kudos to Sabine.
Speaker 8 (19:16):
You know, when they were sort of losing the battle
and you you come with the big guns, and I
love the whole joke of like don't.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
Got it, don't got it? Yeah I got it?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Do you got it? I got it?
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Like yeah, serious, too. Yeah, Ever since the Katsu episode,
I learned a little more about her. You've noticed that
she's really speaking up in these kind of team meetings
of this is the Intel and then she's sitting shotgun
with Hara.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
On this I noticed.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I was like, Oh, she's just right up in there.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, it's cool when they jump the hyperspace together that
shot when they're both up there in the front seats.
The music also in this episode I thought was cool,
is very at the beginning, at least, it was very trippy.
Maybe it was playing into that what did you call it?
I just wrote nightmare, but you called it something else
said projection, actual projection. Yeah, you could tell they played
(20:11):
off that with the music. There was almost like a
vocal chorus to which I never hear, and.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I was about to I have I was getting to that,
but yeah, I was going to ask you guys or JC,
maybe I don't think that we've had like choral music
on our on the show before.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I mean, maybe I could be wrong, but it really
struck me that, like, excuse me, the the you know,
after we learn what happened, what happened to Ezra's parents,
there's this like choral beautiful, really stunning music. And I
was like, have we had like voices singing or has
(20:49):
it just been instrumental?
Speaker 7 (20:51):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It was really stirring.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I thought, yeah, I hadn't. I hadn't heard that before
I set out. Also, I mean, so many random things
and lethal looks like Earth kind of I that I
was like, oh interesting, Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that
with other planets as much they look like other planets.
Was this and I was like, this is like an
(21:14):
Anman version of Earthy.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, there's there's blue, you know, blue and green,
and yeah, looks familiar.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Well.
Speaker 8 (21:25):
One of the things that I found in my sort
of unearthing, I had to kind of purge and go
through what matters and what doesn't. And of course I
saved everything from Star Wars Rebels, but I don't know
if you remember the first pack that they sent us
the Star Wars Rebels Bible, and you know, like a nerd,
(21:48):
I printed it out and highlighted it because I'm that nerdy.
But one of the first sentences it says here for
the Bible is family is more than blood. And I
never forgot that, and I didn't know where I put
all these notes.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
You know, you just file them away or whatever.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
But it says learning is a two way street, standing
up to evil, that it matters to stand up to evil.
And it says pretend to be something long enough and
you read and you risk becoming exactly that.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
And I just thought about that.
Speaker 8 (22:26):
In terms of family, what I saw that silhouette of
you with Canaan really sort of accepting the loss of
your parents. These sentences came to my mind, and I
was so happy to have found.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
These because they really they guided me.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
In terms of, you know, trying to trying to get
the group to coalesce as a family. Like I think
these sentences were just really powerful and I'm really grateful
that I found them.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
Plus I found this hilarious picture.
Speaker 8 (22:58):
Do you remember when we signed these and Star Wars
Weekends the first time?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
For our listeners who can't see, I mean, we'll make
it a social click. Can you describe what you're holding
up for us?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Yes, I'm holding up a picture, it says Vanessa Marshall
Harrison Dula Star Wars Rebels, the animated series Disney's Hollywood
Studios Star Wars Weekends.
Speaker 7 (23:17):
It was back in twenty thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 8 (23:20):
I believe, I'm not sure, but we were out in
the sun and signing these for people and our show
hadn't even come out yet and people were lining up
for hours to get, you know, this thing signed.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And it was that a five by seven. It's like
a mall yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah shot too.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (23:41):
And I was there the first time, I believe, with
Peter Mayhew and I don't know. It was just such
a it was such a special time. And it's a
hilarious headshot. My hair is like it's a great good sho.
I love this curl. It's like, oh hello, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
It's seriously amazing. I guess it's so amazing. It's hilarious.
But it's just a photo.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
Anyway, maybe I'll take a picture of it and you
can post it with the stuff.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
But the other thing I found that I'm so excited.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
I found the wings of the master script, yeah, with
all the highlights and all the things, and I texted Melching,
Melching's going to sign it for me.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 8 (24:24):
Yeah. But anyway, I don't I don't mean to like
divert away, but my point is that this this the
intention at the outset for the show was to examine
issues that, uh, you know, issues where chosen family matters,
and I felt like in this episode we saw that
unfolding as Ezra lost his actual family but embraced his
(24:49):
chosen family, particularly in this episode, and I think that's
why I said it reverberated out for me in terms
of losing Canaan ultimately how we healed as a group
after that as well without the very person who facilitated
some sort of comfort for Ezra in that very dark moment.
But also it is a very adult theme, like you said, Taylor,
(25:12):
but I feel like this is why the hashtag Star
Wars family thing is not something to be taken lightly.
I think when we all go through these things, we've
all lost people, we've lost family members.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
That silhouette is really.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
Impactful for anyone who has lost a family member. There
is that moment where you just come to accept it
and move into grief.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
And I think.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
People who are going through trauma really do heal through
watching some of this content, and we all identify with that.
I think that's why we got the feels watching it
this time and the first time.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
But anyway, those are my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Those are great. Thank you for sharing all that. And
also we are approaching the holidays, which can be when
you're growing up, it's such an innocent, happy time, but
as you get older and things start being maybe taken away,
maybe there's an empty spot at the table, you're like,
oh wow, like you start to see like that's the
other side of life. So I think you're saying that
with the chosen family and how you can come together
as a community is really important. But also I want
(26:17):
to go back to that show Bible you told me about.
So that's something that you all got. It's like basically
like your baseline up. Don't forget these are your fundamentals.
Am I understanding that correctly? Just like if you teach
someone basketball, it's like pastorrible, shoot this triple threat, Like,
these are your fundamentals and you build on that. Is
that what that essentially was for you? Like if went
in doubt, go back to that show Bible so you
(26:37):
know that it has to always be authentic to that.
Am I understanding correctly that?
Speaker 8 (26:42):
I think that was the goal. I mean it says
these are themes and values. Family is more important than blood.
Our family is more than blood. Sorry, And then there's
also these other sheets about the resourcefulness of the rebels,
the importance of humor.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
Like, I think they wanted to map out some just
touchstones for us to come back to.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
They talk about the ship, the personality the ship, the
personality of Chokler. I think it was just they cared
so much, given that this was the first voyage with
you know, Disney at the helm.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
Of the IP.
Speaker 8 (27:17):
I think they really wanted to very specifically guide us.
I don't know, I mean, you guys, what do you
remember thought.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
It was like a jumping off point, like to give
us a context like where we were right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
What I would say, like just to sort of ease
us in and like immerse us in the world and
give us these like reference points so that we could
kind of just jump right in. And you know, it
was that all of that information coupled with Dave really
like guiding us, you know, spending so much I mean,
(27:51):
well into season four, we would still like start our
recording sessions. I mean the whole time we would start
our recording sessions day really taking a good long time
to tell us, you know, kind of get our minds right,
get us into the mindset of like where we are
in the story, what's happening in this episode, and any
(28:11):
information that he felt like we needed, but especially at
the beginning. I mean, we spent a lot of time,
which I really appreciate of him kind of setting the
scene and not just for our show, but there would
be you know, many references to Clone Wars, to the
original trilogy, to just he's a he's a you know,
(28:32):
wealth of knowledge obviously Star Wars knowledge, and so we
got a lot of info, especially at the beginning. But
then all of that stuff was just stuff that we
could like sort of take home with us, really think about,
let it inform sort of where we started, and for
(28:52):
them to be able to take that with us. But
I thought that was all very helpful, and.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Then we got didn't we like once for our character too.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
Yeah, it's very used to do that with his actors.
He would give them all dossier's on their characters. They
had this whole wealth and knowledge of who they were,
so every performance can be really layered, which of course
goes to George Lucas, who was inspired by Hidden Fortress,
which was directed of course by So it's uh, you
(29:19):
see the mentorship of George to Dave.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Right there and I bet you, well, I'm just guessing here,
but I bet you those dossier's probably had like sketches
and things that Corusawa did. I'm just guessing here, but
just knowing like his artistry, like visual artistry, and you know,
Dave like same thing. He would just like each of
our I thought, our character booklets, if you want it,
(29:46):
for lack of a better word, let's call it dossier.
That sounds so much cooler, it.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Sounds so efficient. You're still looking too.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Didn't have artwork, I mean, wasn't there artwork for our
character the ship?
Speaker 7 (30:01):
And yeah, they didn't give that to us. But this
is so funny.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Sure we got to see We've got to see it.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
That's cool you sure us images.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I remember at the beginning of episodes a lot he
would be like, look, we just we did this one up.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This is what this is going to look like.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
This is a perbole, This is all the low Cat's
going to look like.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, you know, one thing I wanted to bring because
you touched on a lot of really great things with
us about Canaan and Ezra's growth in this episode. And
we see, of course the maturation of Ezra, but also
the growth of Canaan because with that moment where because Ezra,
like any teenagers gonna have moments of I don't want
to call it emotional dysregulation, whatever you want to call it.
(30:40):
Or he's like, you don't know what it's like, and
Canaan to his credits, like, you're right, I don't, but
he's there to like listen instead a breach where maybe
in season one he might have just tried to be like, hey,
I need you to do this for me, but instead
here he's like, I hear you, and I'm so sorry.
I don't understand what that's like, but I'm here for you.
And I felt like that was such a great growth
moment for the both of them. And then back to
(31:02):
your point when it's about the foreshadowing and the sort
of the fate of everybody hiding in playing sight that
last image of Canaan and Ezra on the thall and
him telling Ezra you know your family lives on through you,
with you knowing where it's going to go. It's just
like there's all the chills and all the feels, all
the whatever other adjectives that are synonyms that go it feels.
(31:23):
It just insert that there and because it hits much much,
much harder when you know ultimately where it's going to
go once you get to season four, which we all
take our time getting there, because first of all, let's
do that.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I'm already.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't slow it down either, Like this is I'm
realizing we haven't asked JC a question.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So just looking for something I've got.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I've got clear enough that what I was gonna say
is like they don't stop there with like it's very heavy,
and then they put him in a scene with his
parents and you're like, come on, like you're really nailing
this home. But when they're looking out that white city,
is that what looks all used to be?
Speaker 6 (32:03):
What could have been?
Speaker 5 (32:05):
That's what I interpreted as. So I just on my
other buck as I just did the movie Remember Returned
to Oz and how the Emerald City was destroyed. That's
how I interpreted it, but mainly because that movie was
so fresh in my mind, just a little bit yeah yeah,
or like the Ivory Tower and never ending story, you know,
(32:26):
my mind went to and h yeah, and that scene
Taylor where you're talking to your parents, you know, having
that sort of force memory whatever you want to call it.
I love the deliberate choice that we stay at Ezra's
eye level because we don't we don't really see your parents' faces,
because it's really uh, focusing on what Ezra's feeling. But
it's very much a throwback to like Looney Tunes, where
(32:47):
you wouldn't see the adults, or how Spielberg shot et
it was always from Elliott's point of view, and then
the only time you actually kind of see his parents
was a super wide shot, where to me is like
a storyteller, it's like you want to like give Ezra
a hug, but as an a d were so far away,
and once people are going through grief, there's nothing you
can really do to heal it other than just try
to be there for him, which is what Canaan does
(33:09):
very powerful last like thirty seconds of the show.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And then to your point, John, and I think you said,
like the difference between season one Canaan, how he might
have handled this situation versus this Canaan, and it's like
a there's a gentleness that I think is newer. You know,
he handles Ezra with such care and like empathy, not
(33:37):
that he wasn't an empathetic character before, but just that
you know, he might have been a little more lectury
versus there's just like a real care and sweetness and
gentleness that I noticed that in this episode. And I
really I mean, this is kind of on a personal note,
but it was really touching to watch this exchange or
(33:57):
this episode of Canaan and Azra because it kind of
reminded me of you know, you were you were so young,
Taylor when you start we started his show, and I know,
you know, you and Freddie's real life friendship and his
kind of mentorship or sort of big big brother role
and little brother role, and it was just so sweet
(34:18):
to like, just because I know how you guys are
in real life and that there was there was there's
there's genuine care behind these you know, these scenes where
you're acting quote unquote but you're you know you're not.
There's genuine care and uh and friendship there. So I
just thought that was like an a I.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Could hear that from Freddy and I was thinking, that
is very sweet. Yeah, what are some of the questions
you have for J C.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
John My random one when I was watching, because in
the beginning of you know, Ezra has the visions astral
projecting and and the other thing that Canaan and Haarrah
just kind of burning the midnight oil and like the
living room with the ghost. I'm like, do they not
wear night where? Like there's no pajamas and Star Wars
that was my I was like, because there's no questions,
(35:06):
but you know, Jacon will definitely know some sort of
answer to that. But like I was like, wait, do
they not like they just maybe because you always have
to be ready because they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
With how about when she.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Has wardrobe changes?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You got how about the like worms that come in
to try and kill her. She's wearing pajamas while she's sleeping,
isn't she.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Guys, she wears a night where Yeah, and in episode
three too, she's wearing like like a nightgown. Yeah, you guys,
she's just let me tell you about Star Wars pajamas.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, I think it's budget. I'm gonna go with JC
maybe budget. Like they kind of finally go out in
their armor to sleep.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
It's like it's like you never have no one ever
has to use the restroom, No one's ever eaten a sandwich.
Do sandwiches exist in this galaxy?
Speaker 8 (35:55):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Like there's and nobody changes, nobody like you, Like there
might be a sandwich saying bron gosh, no one's eating
a bowl of pasta in Star Wars. I'm just saying that,
I do not think you know, no one. No one
on Rebels is ever like I'm starving? Can we stop?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And just I want spaghetti?
Speaker 5 (36:17):
That would be a bottle episode Like me, I would.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
Be used to being like, No, I'm just saying some
of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs are not being fulfilled
on in Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Like I'm just.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Saying, no, that's a great point to bring. And uh, yeah,
they do. I think in season three because they call
they called the refresher and said not the restaurant. They
called a refresher when a P two joins the crew
and on official base. So and I believe, and JC
can fact check me on this, I believe that was
a Timothy's On thing. Timothys On of course wrote the novel.
(37:00):
But if I'm wrong, please listeners, don't yell at me.
JC will correct me. Don't worry. But yeah, but like
I know, in Skeleton Crew they actually had like a
food court where they're eating. But yeah, and Rebels, you're right,
they don't like it would be nice, like, hey, guys,
I know we got to do this, but our blood
sugar is getting really low, and if he wants to function,
we're gonna need some carbohydrates.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Yeah something.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
It looks like that's why your.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Aim was off this episode for Ezra, because you remember
he's kind of missing him, like, oh he's it's hungry.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I did appreciate that, Canaan said, because this goes into
that and a sort of more quoteitient thing when he's like, hey,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
The moons are setting that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
That is a kind of sweet like dropping us back in,
but also funny, like this is our Star Wars version
of There's two right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
I'm seeing something called a Ronto roaster at the docking
Base seven food and Cargo at Galaxies Edge. It roasted pork,
grilled pork, sausage, tangy slaw in peeda bread. And then
for the children, there is something here a Thorian uh
(38:05):
pasta rings.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
I think it said hold on.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Jac watch out, yeah, like videos or something.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
Plant based meat, marinara sauce with pasta. So I don't
know that's a park thing, but it is in the
It is in the Star Wars area.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
So hey, there are fans who know all about this,
so you can at us about this topic. And and
of course.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
JC absolutely absolutely and uh yeah. The other thing is
like the fall of the White Loaf cat. So I
I had where my mind went was. I was like,
was this a nod to the matrix? Because Neo had
to follow the white rabbit and that led to him understanding.
So I asked somebody who would know the answer to that.
I slid into Henry. Hey, can you hear my beard?
(38:55):
You know? No, Henry I did, and he said, who
are you? Please, don't ever mention to me again. He
was very gracious about it, and uh, I think he
enjoyed that. That's where my mind went. But he said,
this is more about I know I'm talking about the
White Loaf cut. Heverybody from Henry Gilward. This is more
about Ezra's forced connection to the natural world that I
(39:17):
was trying to put forward, kind of like gifts to
the spirit force, powers can manifest in different ways. For Ezra,
it was his ability to connect with creatures and he's
like Canaan didn't have that power. Anakin did, but he
kind of muscled control over creatures where with Ezra he's
a little more sensitive. And I was like, oh, that's
very like inside. So he was very gracious, give me
(39:39):
this very uh detailed answer.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
We need more that. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
You reached out to him, and he pretty much shut
down my matrix theory. So I was like, yeah, we
like it, we like it anyways, well because I thought
it is Ezra the one like like Neo. So he's
got to follow his uh his white totem. But that
sounded weird, your white total, right, anyway, let's follow the
(40:06):
white low cut bright the fact check with jac what
have we got today?
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Oh?
Speaker 11 (40:13):
He quit apparently you know, I have to turn I
have to push like eight buttons to get my camera
back on. And it's been I feel like the entirety
of Los Angeles is sick. So I'm a little bit slow.
I don't have a lot for this. I have a
lot from the last three minutes of discussion from you guys.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Let's go. We say we like to say for you.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
We didn't want to give you too easy of the time.
We had like no questions journalist.
Speaker 11 (40:45):
The first thirty five minutes. There's I had one thing,
and now I've got twelve. The one thing I picked
out from the show, So when they're escaping at the
end of this, when the Imperials are backing, Garrel Soto
mentions escape plan Delta, which I thought was interesting because
(41:09):
it's kind of.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
A callback to.
Speaker 11 (41:12):
Luke Skywalker against the ad Ats, which we can discuss
more next episode in on how they use attack pattern
delta to attack.
Speaker 6 (41:24):
That was Luke Skywalker's plan.
Speaker 11 (41:26):
So attack plan Delta is called out here, and I
guess it's where multiple ships flee for hyperspace while command
ship stays behind us a diversion. So again, after the
very soulful conversation you guys have, I don't know how
(41:47):
interesting escape plan Delta is.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
It's interesting, John.
Speaker 11 (41:51):
You mentioned Clancy Brown in your intro. You came back
to it later on that he played one of the
best versions of Lex Luthor, and the DC Animated also
wanted to call out he played Savage Opress in the
Clone Wars, Darth Maul's brother. My first intro to Clancy
was Starship Troopers, which I recommend everybody go back and
(42:14):
watch for no good reason at all.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
Right now, Taylor had hit emotion.
Speaker 11 (42:21):
Taylor, you talked about do other cartoons give young characters
the opportunity for such heavy emotional arcs. The only one
that I could pull. I mean, Justice League Animated season
two does a lot with that, but it's more between
Green Lantern and Hawk Girl, which are adult characters. The
(42:44):
only spot where I could really remember a cartoon that
I was like, Wow, this is a lot was the
character of Aang in Avatar The Last Airbender, who's kind
of like wakes up after all this time and has
the save the world essentially, which was also a Dave
Filoni show. I'm going to go with John's interpretation of
the White City of Lothol. I'm not going to add
(43:07):
anything to that. I did have something to add to
what Tia was saying about Taylor's relationship with Freddie and
how she could hear Canaan's gentleness in his approach to
mentoring him versus lecturing, and I thought that was really
interesting because it's not something I picked up in the show,
(43:28):
but hearing you guys discuss it, it made me think
about Obi Wan and Anakin, and when you watch obi
Wan mentor Anakin throughout the entire series, it's almost grating,
how like lecturing and how much he puts down Anakin
throughout all of the episodes, and I wonder or throughout
(43:51):
the movies, and I wonder how much how present that
was in the writer's minds for Rebels, in that if
Obi Wan's tutoring in that way impacted Anakin's decision and
need to find other mentors i e. Palpatine and aid
It in his path to the dark Side, was it
(44:16):
conscious that that's what happened? And so in Rebels, we
need to put Ezra's mentor on a different path, maybe
start him at the same point, And let's show what
happens if the teacher goes this direction instead of that direction,
because we've already seen what happens when you know, the
Jedi council babies him and holds him back and holds
(44:37):
him back. So I thought that was really interesting. Pajamas
in Star Wars, Taylor was right. Amidala does wear pajamas
in episode two. Anakin also sleeps with his shirt off
in I believe episode.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
Three three, he's got a robe and everything.
Speaker 11 (45:00):
Yeah, my controversial take, and I'm so sorry that we're
going to wade into these waters. But the one thing
I have to say about characters never changing their costumes, which, Taylor,
you've hit on an animation, there's like budgetary to it.
I guess the one question and I'll leave it up
(45:20):
to the fans. I'm not gonna hazard an opinion on this.
But in the Ahsoka Live action show, which takes place
a decade after what we are experiencing right now, and
Hara is an accomplished general who's done all of these things,
(45:40):
why is she still wearing the same outfit ten years
later that she wears on this show? Like even Luke
and Lea changed their outfits movie to movie. Why is
Harrah still wearing the same thing? I mean questions?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Ahsoka looks is wearing different stuff from when she from
Home Wars, right, I mean, now that she's older, she
looks different, her makeup is different, her outfit is slightly different.
So then why is poor Hairra still still.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
If I was a kid, my arguments my parents would
be like, you tell me to be like, these people
will be follow the right path. They sleep in their
clothes that they were on the playground. I just go
to sleep in my stuff, get up in the same thing,
because I think it's just funny, Like how can you
be asleep wearing that yeah, never fly.
Speaker 5 (46:31):
Yeah, yeah, let me tell you what I think about it. No, kid,
I'm not this episode, but you never know. If you
got you know, if people are liking the chaos, I'll
hold back with this episode. You never know, but no, no, sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 11 (46:43):
Yeah, So, you know, I think within the context of
the show, I can see it. Within the broader context
of the universe, maybe there should be some other costume
changes made.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
They got to find an outlet store in the outer
Rim or something, you know.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Just I mean, Sabine changes outfit's from season to seas
all the time.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
This is true.
Speaker 8 (47:06):
I'm saying, I just didn't know if it was like
a pilot's uniform type of deal. And maybe she has
a number of them. You know, it's not the same
para pants.
Speaker 11 (47:15):
Like Kevin Smith's or Homer Simpson's closets, where it's all
the same thing, but there's one hundred versions of it.
Speaker 7 (47:22):
It's kind of I don't.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Know, she's the Johnny Cash of US Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (47:28):
Also, it's kind of a flave thing. It's just sort
of her.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
Yeah, she's like.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Just too busy being Arrah that she can't you know,
she didn't have time or Sabine is like that's a
priority for hers to like really kind of you know,
express her artistry through like her her armor and her
helmet and such. Whereas you know, Space Mom has a
(47:57):
lot more on her plate. She's got things to do.
She doesn't have time to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
The onto them they're born with clothes.
Speaker 6 (48:05):
They might not be clothed. It might just be part
of that.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
They haven't proven otherwise yet.
Speaker 11 (48:10):
Yeah, like Chewbacca, Chewbacca never puts on clothes.
Speaker 6 (48:13):
Maybe it's the same thing.
Speaker 11 (48:14):
Yeah, Chewbacca hasn't changed clothes between the movies So Low
and Episode nine.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
He's naked the whole time.
Speaker 11 (48:23):
Famously, George Lucas got studio notes back in the seventies
about why does the will he not wear pants?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
It sounds funny he doesn't need pants because he's a
free spirit.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Yeah, Ze wars pants, but that's not free in the
same way.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I feel like the more like to Go Tea. They
took Rob McCrory's drying. They're like more.
Speaker 7 (48:49):
Subtle.
Speaker 6 (48:51):
Up we talked about John. You mentioned the refresher.
Speaker 11 (48:55):
I do believe the origin of that is Timothy's on
but I could not confirm it. I feel like the
origin of a lot of things is probably Timothy's on,
and if it's not Timothy's on, it was just prior
to Timothy's on with the West End Games stuff. And
we've mentioned before in the fact check, Mandalorian is the
first time that they were allowed to actually show a
bathroom in Star Wars Mandalorian season one, we talked a
(49:19):
little bit about Star Wars food. The first instance I
can think of of Star Wars food is obviously Luke
is having breakfast or whatever lunch dinner in a New
Hope with his aunt and uncle, and again he digs
into some ration bars on Degobah with Yoda and then
(49:46):
Wickett the e Walk in Return of the Jedi shares
a rice cake with Princess Leah. The first time I
can think of beyond that is Luke Skywalker is talking
to Oh and I'm so sorry, I haven't read this
book since nineteen.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
Ninety four, but I think it was.
Speaker 11 (50:04):
Luke Skywalker talking to C three Po in Air to
the Empire, which came out in nineteen ninety one, about
Lando introducing him to hot chocolate, was like an earth
thing that like, we're like, why don't they just eat
pasta well like hot chocolate was introduced to Luke Skywalker
by Lando in the mid nineties, and John the Gilroy
(50:30):
info was awesome, and I just wanted to say, if
you're going to be wrong about your matrix reference, like,
I think what mister mister Gilroy shared was a great
way to be absolutely wrong about something.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Well, Okay, he never said was wrong. He just didn't
confirm that that's what it was. So let's let's be
let's let's just make sure with your fact check portion
that the packs are straight. He didn't say I was wrong.
He just said, oh, this is what I meant.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I just texted him he said, you were wrong. I'm kidding. No,
I agree. I like the White Rabbit.
Speaker 6 (51:05):
That's all I got there was. It was a very
heady episode, more so than.
Speaker 5 (51:13):
I'm getting hetty with you taking that cheap shot of me.
Now anyways, I can uh. I have an appointment today
my therapist, so it'll be fine anyways.
Speaker 6 (51:24):
Somehow.
Speaker 5 (51:25):
Yeah, yeah, you don't got to take shots to me.
Speaker 6 (51:30):
I know you know where I lived.
Speaker 5 (51:31):
That's trouble, okay, You now you're turned into something that's
not going to be I'm just like I'm just saying
you don't have to I don't have to catch trays.
Well if if it's behind my back, I don't hear.
I can't control that. But I'm right here, man.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You don't know.
Speaker 5 (51:45):
We're all supposed to be family here and supportive.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
But anyways, to me and Taylor, you.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Take the cheap shots.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
To me, oh I do, and I will no cheap shot.
It's just like just straight up this is what I'm doing.
But anyways, thanks Chasey as always, and thank you to
our listeners. We know you have a choice in podcast,
so we appreciate you choosing ours. We will see you
next week. But until then, Taylor has more info on
his podcast or he just has our outro, it's going
to be one of the two. Ur both, but uh
you guys. Shooting music. Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership
(52:20):
with iHeart Podcasts Producing, Hosted by Vanessa Marshall, TiO Surkar,
Taylor Gray and John Ley Brody executive producer and in
house star Wars guru slash back checker j c Riifenberg.
Our music was composed by Mikey Flash. Our cover art
was created by Neil Fraser. Of Neil Fraser Designs. Special
thanks to Holly Free and Aaron Kaufman over at iHeart,
Ivan krascor At, Willie Morrison, Devor Trasy Canobio, George Lucas
(52:42):
for creating this universe we love so much, and of
course all of our amazing listeners. Follow us on Instagram
at Potter Rebellion and email us at Potter Rebellion Pod
When your shows alone put so much emotionality into a
young character, just any show. And then two, when does
it happen in the animator? Because I can't, like I
think of anything from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do they go that far? Like your parents?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Die?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Everyone, it's tsur Car voice of Sabine Wren, Specter five,
and with us we.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Have what's up guys, Taylor Gray, Ezra Bridgie here Specter six.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We also have with.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Us, Hey, everybody, it's John Lee Brody, your friendly neighborhood moderator.
And today more hot takes. I'm the last Jedi. No,
I'm kidding or maybe you never know, but actually we
are going over Star Wars Rebels Season two, Episode eleven, Legacy.
But first, as always, it's family checking time. How is
everybody doing?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Did the last Jedi one drop?
Speaker 6 (01:03):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yes, yeah, it's actually been pretty chill so far, so
I mean, yeah, yeah, but we'll see. It's still early
in the day, still.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Early, stay tuned till next time, right, Well, in that case,
I'm good.
Speaker 7 (01:15):
Yeah, so far.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
So good, so far, so far. How is everybody doing?
Speaker 8 (01:20):
Though I definitely haven't slept in like two weeks, so
we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 7 (01:26):
With moving and everything.
Speaker 8 (01:28):
And I definitely I unearthed some treasures from the very
start of Star Wars Rebels and would love to share them.
I'll describe them for those listening. But yeah, it's it's
been a Moving is one of the top stressors, so
I don't recommend it, but it's worth it ultimately. But
other than that, completely fine. Oh and I had my birthday.
(01:50):
Thank you everyone for a birthday wish.
Speaker 7 (01:54):
Happy Yeah, so all is well.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Do you feel like a renewed energy in your new placement?
Speaker 7 (02:00):
Oh my gosh, I've never been happier in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Amazing, that's always fantastic. Yeah. I just meditated I'm filling
like a million bucks.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Ooh. That that kind of goes on on brand with
some of the stuff Ezra has going on in this
episode is all astral projecting and meditating like he's Leonardo
in the nineteen ninety Ninja Turtles movie if you know,
you know, But is.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That going to be in the recap?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
No, no, it's not. I went more. Yeah, this one
was pretty admittedly light on some of those pop culture references,
and that one just came to me now once you
said meditation, and I thought of Leonardo in the woods,
going like splinter, you know that whole thing.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Well, I can't wait. I as I was watching this episode,
I was like, Oh, what's John gonna come up with?
Speaker 7 (02:45):
This time? It's small?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
This was heavy stuff, very emotional watching this.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
It's a pretty short recap because because of the heavy stuff,
because there's a lot of stuff to unpack, so why
don't why don't we just get into it? And also
to our listeners when we do family check in time,
you are part of the family, so we are checking
in with you. Also, I know that we can't hear
you as you're talking back to the podcast, but comments
are open on Spotify. We see some of them and
(03:11):
there's some very nice ones on there, and you can
utilize that the check in with us or our social media.
So just fii. The check in is also inclusive to
all of you listening because you're all part of the
Rebels family.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Right, That's exactly right? Hit us up, let us.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Know absolutely all right, So here we go. Star Wars
Rebel Season two, episode eleven, Legacy original air date December ninth,
twenty fifteen, Written by Henry Gilroy. We gave the flowers
to Melching a couple weeks ago, and we haven't. We've
mentioned Henry, but we haven't really given his flowers. And
this is someone who also is a i say, a
(03:46):
legendary writer in the animation space. It's done a lot
of prolific work. He wrote My Fate, one of my
favorite television episodes ever, which was in the Batman Animated series.
It was like the Scarecrow episode where Batman had to
face his fear of letting his parents down. It was
a really cool episode. And so Henry goes way back
with the world of animation, and we thought we would
just throw some flowers his way, because I do think
(04:07):
he listens to the podcast. So now Henry, Okay, well good, no, Henry,
you've got any flowers.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
He's also not only is he a wonderful writer, he's
just a sweetie pie like he is just a great
a great guy in real life. So Hi, no, no.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
I love that. Well, here comes the recap for season
two episode eleven, Legacy. The episode has copious amounts of
action between the shootouts with stormtroopers and Callous, another visit
from the Inquisitive siblings, and a narrow escape from the
Empire as they storm Grell, and it's also packed with
a lot of emotional weight, fuel by Ezra having dreams
slash astral projections about his parents, leading him to believe
(04:47):
that they are alive. With the help of Canaan and
leading into his lout to zen mindset, Ezra uses his
forced clairvoyants to try and narrow downwards his parents might be,
and like Thomas Wolf in nineteen twenty nine, that very
clairvoyance leads to him looking home to Lathal. It is
there where a white loafcat guides on like armies in
Greek mythology, but it is Azra who is the trickster
here when he plants a tracker on their ever elusive
(05:08):
Totem spirit guide. This leads him and Cadaen to Writer Azzati.
Fun fact about Writer. In a past life, he was
the world's greatest criminal mind. More on that later. The
now exile former governor of Lathal is able to give
as their information on his parents, but it wasn't the
information he was hoping for. It's a lot for the
young Paddle want to take in, and it adds even
more complications who's already complicated grief, but he also gains
the wisdom of knowing that his parents, like his home
(05:29):
planet of Lethal, will always live through him and always
be with him. And that is the recap for season two,
episode eleven, Legacy brilliant.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I didn't understand one of your references.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Which one?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And now I'm like, oh, criminal lines, no Thomas Wolfe.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Oh, because you know Thomas Wolfe wrote you Can't Go
Home Again, But there was also Lakhomewer and Angel, so
look Homeward Angel was like, you're yearning for home and
then you can't go home again? Was the wisdom of
you can't. I can't go home again, because it's never
the same as when you're so sad. Yeah, he's he's
he's kind of a tragic figure because I think he
passed at like age thirty seven, so he never really
(06:09):
got the write his own ending to his own his
own life story. But uh, yeah, he's known for like
the Wanderer sort of theme, which is kind of Ezra.
You know Ezra's that he's JD. Salinger. It's all those things.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, thank you, thanks for that. I
was like, wait, I missed it.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
You know it, you know it. Now we know and
know he's had the battle. So what are our initial
thoughts with this very emotionally heavy episode, which, admittedly, when
I first saw it in twenty fifteen, I didn't I
wasn't in the great mindset to absorb all the emotionality.
But now watching it, I'm like, Wow, this is a
lot for young Ezra to have to process.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's so sad, you guys, the top of the episode
is just heartbreaking. And Taylor, it must I mean it
must have been you know, I don't know, challenging or
emotional to actually record this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, I remember being heavy, but I also remember telling
Dave the whole time like.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, we're so young. I was so young.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But like, up until that point, a lot of the
roles I played were always these like very emotional characters.
So that feel like the space And I don't know
why that is. It felt so much more familiar to
me than some of the like sort of sit comy
beats like the White look at It burned down. Like
at times I hear lines of this, I'm like, yeah, yeah, obviously,
(07:36):
like you don't have to say that, but that's the line,
like you don't really have a choice, and it can
be a bit light. But then this, I thought the
writing was so good. I thought Clancy was so good.
But then I was wondering, I clearly am not as well. First,
when do animated shows go so like when your shows
alone put so much emotionality into a young care just
(08:00):
any show? And then two, when does it happen in
the animator because I can't, like, I think of anything
from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob enough, Like, do
they go that far? Like your parents die?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 8 (08:18):
Maybe Young Justice and some of those things that are
more DC kind of heavy. Okay, have your adult well,
I mean there's still kids, but they kind of exkew.
For Young Justice, I played Black Canary. She was kind
of a therapist to the younger superheroes that are in
(08:40):
the Justice League, and she would help them through PTSD
and all kinds of identity crises and this and that,
and it helped a lot of people. I remember talking
to people at com Con saying how impactful it was
for I think it was beast Boy who had a
particular PTSD scene with me Black Canary his quote unquote,
(09:03):
well not literal therapist but I'm sort of a mentor
to them. But that got pretty heavy for a cartoon.
So it does happen, but I've for me personally at
this point watching this episode. I obviously we had no
idea what would happen with Canaan later on, but I
(09:25):
loved how Canaan was supporting you through this, and we
know eventually we're going to lose him, And I remember
Filoni saying, you know, we put that in the middle
of the season so that we could all heal together.
This felt sort of like a precursor to that eventual
loss as well. That this hit differently knowing what happens
(09:48):
later on for you, the very person who's comforting you
through this loss, you will lose him as well spoiler alert,
but that it just it resonated differently, knowing sort of
you know, on a rewatch if you will, as opposed.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
To it didn't. It didn't impact me as much as
it did this time.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
Somehow, it did impact me, but not as much as
it did last night.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
No.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Watching Pain and Guide Ezra through the Jedi mind trick
was I don't know, it really got me. Also, Freddy's
so good at that like balancing that I don't know
if there's like a there's like a gravitas to him
where he doesn't do too much and by not overdoing
(10:38):
it it is so much more impactful. I don't know.
I was trying as I was watching last night, I
was like trying to figure out how to describe it.
But I think you guys probably know what I mean.
I'm not being very eloquent about it, but he just
has this way of like towing the line of like
not being casual but not sort of like hitting it
(10:59):
too hard, and in doing so it feels so natural,
but also like it carries so much weight, you know,
his words and anyway, I thought that was really beautiful.
I just love all of the Ezra and Kanan interaction,
even the funny stuff, you know, like the what does
he say? And now we're chasing both cats and then
(11:20):
what do you says? Like the force is always you're sweet.
I like it because and then you know it's not
just like so heavy and so emotional. There's still moments
of levity and and fun and and that's that's Star Wars, right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's very Shakespearean.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
It's like, but it's that's that you just said, it's
Star Wars right, Like I was saying about so many
issues with parents in Star Wars.
Speaker 7 (11:49):
Right, Yeah, speaking with parents. Did you remember that d
was the voice of your father.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
I did.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I couldn't figure out. I was so f sit on Clancy.
I thought Clancy was so good.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
He's so good.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
His voice, just his the timbre of his voice is
just like Frankiss.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Dean was killing me because you know, he's the Imperial guy.
Then we cut he's Captain Rex. Then he's your dad.
I was like anything else.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I didn't know that, yeah, huh yeah. And then it
became John Cena's pet eagle on the peacemaker.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So he's he's the eagle speaks on the peacemaker.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Well, equally he makes the eagle noises or equally on peacemaker.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
If I needed to hire someone to make eagle sounds.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
D He's pretty much got the monopoly on that market.
I don't know anyone else that I could compete. But
Taylor to uh to your question earlier about animation kind
of going hard. If you look at the nineties Fox
Kids lineup, thatmant animated series, Superman animated series, which is
why I mentioned Greatest Criminal Mind because, as you all
(12:57):
know or may not know. Clancy Brown was the voice
Alex Luthor, and I would put him in like my
top five of Lex Luthor's of all time. But if
you watch like X Men ninety two, Batman Animated series,
Superman Animated series, that lineup, yeah it was. It was
the Fox Kids lineup, but they did it in like
two layers, which is really how Henry Gilroy writes as well.
He lies the layer up. We got to make sure
(13:18):
that this isn't going to alienate our younger audience and
stay true to what George Lucas had intended when he
made Star Wars. He wanted for kids. He wanted to
lighten what was going on in the world, but also
beneath that, you're going to get the deeper meanings. And
if you watch those older nineties cartoons, they one percent
do it. I watch it as an adult, like, man,
it's kind of fed up. I watched that as a
(13:39):
kid after school. I don't know ifellose, but like, you
don't understand that as a kid. Just as you get older,
you're like, oh wow, this this episode of Batman Animate
series was about more than him fighting crime. It was
about him kind of chasing his own shadow or dealing
with his grief and never come into never really being
at peace with his parents murdered and all that stuff.
(14:01):
But they don't put in the forefront for you like that,
but it is like there, so I would say, you know,
and you can certainly say that because Henry Gilroy does
come from that world of like the nineties animation, So
that would be my personal experience with it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, because it is.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It is very I'm in two minds about it because
one you have the sort of you don't want to
shelter children too much, but also you want to protect them.
And at the same time, it's important. The world is suffering,
the world is gnarly, and to be able to experience
it parallel to a story that's fictional that's through a screen,
that is huge. Know for me as a kid, like
(14:39):
a lot of reference you have are from things that
you watched, and that's important. But they do like some
of the lines I didn't remember how far they went,
but like it's sad, like they're telling them your parents
died and also your transmission they heard, and I was like,
geez man, like this is it's a kid and it's yeah,
(14:59):
that's like a lot. I don't know, you don't see
that all the time on any show really, So I
was like, Okay, they really wif right, And I think
Henry did a good or an incredible job tastefully writing it,
where like if I was at parents with my kids,
I'm like, that's like maybe good exposure therapy in a way.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I also thought, you know, I don't tend to compliment
you very often, Taylor, but I thought you really handled
all of this stuff really beautifully, like it was you know,
it was so I was so sad watching this stuff.
And then when you learn of your parents' fate, oh
my god, it's heart wrenching. But you don't do any
(15:40):
like it's it's just right. You don't do too much,
you don't do too little. It's like you're like Goldilocks
in this episode.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Thanks did did you find because you have I'm sure
we all have moments like this on the show, Like
this is what through me for just for a second.
Was I remember the first time we did it. Obviously
you're just breaking down naturally, but I remember dating like
it also has to be a bit audible, And I
was like, oh god, you're right, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
When I when I do that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not it's not necessarily I can be a bit hysterical,
but it's not that audible when I cry. And then
we've had to do this countless times on camera and
you see it and you feel it, but it's you're
not necessarily making the sound.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And then to.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Say okay, you're not forcing it, but like, okay, we're
also going to do this into a microphone. It becomes
something a little different, which is you're like, well, I
hope the way they animate it is you know what
I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
There's a technical component to it that you might not
otherwise have to do on camera.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Right, you would never think about it at least.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah, picking up your facial expressions, your body language. You know,
we don't need you to project like you might have
to on stage or in this case. Yeah, there's like
a different technical component to it. Well, I thought you did.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
Great, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Write it down on the calendar.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There we go. That's it. That's it first season two.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Well, well can do you can continue that in your
other podcast, you guys, and we'll go deeper into God.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I was like, I forgot what I was called. I
forgot what my other hit show is called.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
It's more like you guys.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Instead of hey dude, it's you guys.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Oh sorry sorry, sure, what you have to say is
much more important than I was.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
No, no, no, I was just going to piggyback on what
you were saying to you, because when I when I
watched this episode and I listened to all y'all's performances,
but with with Ezra had to go through, it's like
a mix of adrenaline anticipation, with which is layered with heartbreak,
which goes into the layering of how you know, a
lot of these really great shows and made it with
live action are just written and uh and it's just
(17:53):
like you just felt every bit of it. It's just
you know, you don't see what happens. But is the
fact that his parents were alive that whole time you
think through season one, his parents were alive that whole time,
like wait what? And then they heard your voice and
they knew it was you. So it's like, that's so
much the pros.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And that like your transmission, Ezra's transmission was the catalyst
for this event, and that they didn't make it out.
Speaker 9 (18:18):
Y'all, that is really wrenching, like the whole and then
you know, the idea that you hadn't seen them for years.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I mean you were on your own as this young kid,
like just trying to survive, and that you guys were
just so close, like you you know, like that it
was that what happened to them was so recent and
I mean that's really that's really tough.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And we know, like in Star Wars, the theme of sacrifices,
like the ultimate that's enlightenment, that's the selflessness, like the
natural thoughts come flooding in of like during that scene,
you're going like, well, what if I just didn't send
this transmission, maybe they still would be alive. It's my
fault because we always want to take blame. And you're like,
well no, but you it's doing good for the world
(19:01):
and what matters more. And you're like, god, that for anyone.
That's heavy. But then when you make it a like
a teenager, you're like, oh god.
Speaker 7 (19:11):
Yeah, kudos to Sabine.
Speaker 8 (19:16):
You know, when they were sort of losing the battle
and you you come with the big guns, and I
love the whole joke of like don't.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
Got it, don't got it? Yeah I got it?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Do you got it? I got it?
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Like yeah, serious, too. Yeah, Ever since the Katsu episode,
I learned a little more about her. You've noticed that
she's really speaking up in these kind of team meetings
of this is the Intel and then she's sitting shotgun
with Hara.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
On this I noticed.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I was like, Oh, she's just right up in there.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, it's cool when they jump the hyperspace together that
shot when they're both up there in the front seats.
The music also in this episode I thought was cool,
is very at the beginning, at least, it was very trippy.
Maybe it was playing into that what did you call it?
I just wrote nightmare, but you called it something else
said projection, actual projection. Yeah, you could tell they played
(20:11):
off that with the music. There was almost like a
vocal chorus to which I never hear, and.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I was about to I have I was getting to that,
but yeah, I was going to ask you guys or JC,
maybe I don't think that we've had like choral music
on our on the show before.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I mean, maybe I could be wrong, but it really
struck me that, like, excuse me, the the you know,
after we learn what happened, what happened to Ezra's parents,
there's this like choral beautiful, really stunning music. And I
was like, have we had like voices singing or has
(20:49):
it just been instrumental?
Speaker 7 (20:51):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It was really stirring.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I thought, yeah, I hadn't. I hadn't heard that before
I set out. Also, I mean, so many random things
and lethal looks like Earth kind of I that I
was like, oh interesting, Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that
with other planets as much they look like other planets.
Was this and I was like, this is like an
(21:14):
Anman version of Earthy.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, there's there's blue, you know, blue and green,
and yeah, looks familiar.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Well.
Speaker 8 (21:25):
One of the things that I found in my sort
of unearthing, I had to kind of purge and go
through what matters and what doesn't. And of course I
saved everything from Star Wars Rebels, but I don't know
if you remember the first pack that they sent us
the Star Wars Rebels Bible, and you know, like a nerd,
(21:48):
I printed it out and highlighted it because I'm that nerdy.
But one of the first sentences it says here for
the Bible is family is more than blood. And I
never forgot that, and I didn't know where I put
all these notes.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
You know, you just file them away or whatever.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
But it says learning is a two way street, standing
up to evil, that it matters to stand up to evil.
And it says pretend to be something long enough and
you read and you risk becoming exactly that.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
And I just thought about that.
Speaker 8 (22:26):
In terms of family, what I saw that silhouette of
you with Canaan really sort of accepting the loss of
your parents. These sentences came to my mind, and I
was so happy to have found.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
These because they really they guided me.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
In terms of, you know, trying to trying to get
the group to coalesce as a family. Like I think
these sentences were just really powerful and I'm really grateful
that I found them.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
Plus I found this hilarious picture.
Speaker 8 (22:58):
Do you remember when we signed these and Star Wars
Weekends the first time?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
For our listeners who can't see, I mean, we'll make
it a social click. Can you describe what you're holding
up for us?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Yes, I'm holding up a picture, it says Vanessa Marshall
Harrison Dula Star Wars Rebels, the animated series Disney's Hollywood
Studios Star Wars Weekends.
Speaker 7 (23:17):
It was back in twenty thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 8 (23:20):
I believe, I'm not sure, but we were out in
the sun and signing these for people and our show
hadn't even come out yet and people were lining up
for hours to get, you know, this thing signed.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And it was that a five by seven. It's like
a mall yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah shot too.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (23:41):
And I was there the first time, I believe, with
Peter Mayhew and I don't know. It was just such
a it was such a special time. And it's a
hilarious headshot. My hair is like it's a great good sho.
I love this curl. It's like, oh hello, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
It's seriously amazing. I guess it's so amazing. It's hilarious.
But it's just a photo.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
Anyway, maybe I'll take a picture of it and you
can post it with the stuff.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
But the other thing I found that I'm so excited.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
I found the wings of the master script, yeah, with
all the highlights and all the things, and I texted Melching,
Melching's going to sign it for me.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 8 (24:24):
Yeah. But anyway, I don't I don't mean to like
divert away, but my point is that this this the
intention at the outset for the show was to examine
issues that, uh, you know, issues where chosen family matters,
and I felt like in this episode we saw that
unfolding as Ezra lost his actual family but embraced his
(24:49):
chosen family, particularly in this episode, and I think that's
why I said it reverberated out for me in terms
of losing Canaan ultimately how we healed as a group
after that as well without the very person who facilitated
some sort of comfort for Ezra in that very dark moment.
But also it is a very adult theme, like you said, Taylor,
(25:12):
but I feel like this is why the hashtag Star
Wars family thing is not something to be taken lightly.
I think when we all go through these things, we've
all lost people, we've lost family members.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
That silhouette is really.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
Impactful for anyone who has lost a family member. There
is that moment where you just come to accept it
and move into grief.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
And I think.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
People who are going through trauma really do heal through
watching some of this content, and we all identify with that.
I think that's why we got the feels watching it
this time and the first time.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
But anyway, those are my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Those are great. Thank you for sharing all that. And
also we are approaching the holidays, which can be when
you're growing up, it's such an innocent, happy time, but
as you get older and things start being maybe taken away,
maybe there's an empty spot at the table, you're like,
oh wow, like you start to see like that's the
other side of life. So I think you're saying that
with the chosen family and how you can come together
as a community is really important. But also I want
(26:17):
to go back to that show Bible you told me about.
So that's something that you all got. It's like basically
like your baseline up. Don't forget these are your fundamentals.
Am I understanding that correctly? Just like if you teach
someone basketball, it's like pastorrible, shoot this triple threat, Like,
these are your fundamentals and you build on that. Is
that what that essentially was for you? Like if went
in doubt, go back to that show Bible so you
(26:37):
know that it has to always be authentic to that.
Am I understanding correctly that?
Speaker 8 (26:42):
I think that was the goal. I mean it says
these are themes and values. Family is more important than blood.
Our family is more than blood. Sorry, And then there's
also these other sheets about the resourcefulness of the rebels,
the importance of humor.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
Like, I think they wanted to map out some just
touchstones for us to come back to.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
They talk about the ship, the personality the ship, the
personality of Chokler. I think it was just they cared
so much, given that this was the first voyage with
you know, Disney at the helm.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
Of the IP.
Speaker 8 (27:17):
I think they really wanted to very specifically guide us.
I don't know, I mean, you guys, what do you
remember thought.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
It was like a jumping off point, like to give
us a context like where we were right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
What I would say, like just to sort of ease
us in and like immerse us in the world and
give us these like reference points so that we could
kind of just jump right in. And you know, it
was that all of that information coupled with Dave really
like guiding us, you know, spending so much I mean,
(27:51):
well into season four, we would still like start our
recording sessions. I mean the whole time we would start
our recording sessions day really taking a good long time
to tell us, you know, kind of get our minds right,
get us into the mindset of like where we are
in the story, what's happening in this episode, and any
(28:11):
information that he felt like we needed, but especially at
the beginning. I mean, we spent a lot of time,
which I really appreciate of him kind of setting the
scene and not just for our show, but there would
be you know, many references to Clone Wars, to the
original trilogy, to just he's a he's a you know,
(28:32):
wealth of knowledge obviously Star Wars knowledge, and so we
got a lot of info, especially at the beginning. But
then all of that stuff was just stuff that we
could like sort of take home with us, really think about,
let it inform sort of where we started, and for
(28:52):
them to be able to take that with us. But
I thought that was all very helpful, and.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Then we got didn't we like once for our character too.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
Yeah, it's very used to do that with his actors.
He would give them all dossier's on their characters. They
had this whole wealth and knowledge of who they were,
so every performance can be really layered, which of course
goes to George Lucas, who was inspired by Hidden Fortress,
which was directed of course by So it's uh, you
(29:19):
see the mentorship of George to Dave.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Right there and I bet you, well, I'm just guessing here,
but I bet you those dossier's probably had like sketches
and things that Corusawa did. I'm just guessing here, but
just knowing like his artistry, like visual artistry, and you know,
Dave like same thing. He would just like each of
our I thought, our character booklets, if you want it,
(29:46):
for lack of a better word, let's call it dossier.
That sounds so much cooler, it.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Sounds so efficient. You're still looking too.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Didn't have artwork, I mean, wasn't there artwork for our
character the ship?
Speaker 7 (30:01):
And yeah, they didn't give that to us. But this
is so funny.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Sure we got to see We've got to see it.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
That's cool you sure us images.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I remember at the beginning of episodes a lot he
would be like, look, we just we did this one up.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This is what this is going to look like.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
This is a perbole, This is all the low Cat's
going to look like.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, you know, one thing I wanted to bring because
you touched on a lot of really great things with
us about Canaan and Ezra's growth in this episode. And
we see, of course the maturation of Ezra, but also
the growth of Canaan because with that moment where because Ezra,
like any teenagers gonna have moments of I don't want
to call it emotional dysregulation, whatever you want to call it.
(30:40):
Or he's like, you don't know what it's like, and
Canaan to his credits, like, you're right, I don't, but
he's there to like listen instead a breach where maybe
in season one he might have just tried to be like, hey,
I need you to do this for me, but instead
here he's like, I hear you, and I'm so sorry.
I don't understand what that's like, but I'm here for you.
And I felt like that was such a great growth
moment for the both of them. And then back to
(31:02):
your point when it's about the foreshadowing and the sort
of the fate of everybody hiding in playing sight that
last image of Canaan and Ezra on the thall and
him telling Ezra you know your family lives on through you,
with you knowing where it's going to go. It's just
like there's all the chills and all the feels, all
the whatever other adjectives that are synonyms that go it feels.
(31:23):
It just insert that there and because it hits much much,
much harder when you know ultimately where it's going to
go once you get to season four, which we all
take our time getting there, because first of all, let's
do that.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I'm already.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't slow it down either, Like this is I'm
realizing we haven't asked JC a question.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So just looking for something I've got.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I've got clear enough that what I was gonna say
is like they don't stop there with like it's very heavy,
and then they put him in a scene with his
parents and you're like, come on, like you're really nailing
this home. But when they're looking out that white city,
is that what looks all used to be?
Speaker 6 (32:03):
What could have been?
Speaker 5 (32:05):
That's what I interpreted as. So I just on my
other buck as I just did the movie Remember Returned
to Oz and how the Emerald City was destroyed. That's
how I interpreted it, but mainly because that movie was
so fresh in my mind, just a little bit yeah yeah,
or like the Ivory Tower and never ending story, you know,
(32:26):
my mind went to and h yeah, and that scene
Taylor where you're talking to your parents, you know, having
that sort of force memory whatever you want to call it.
I love the deliberate choice that we stay at Ezra's
eye level because we don't we don't really see your parents' faces,
because it's really uh, focusing on what Ezra's feeling. But
it's very much a throwback to like Looney Tunes, where
(32:47):
you wouldn't see the adults, or how Spielberg shot et
it was always from Elliott's point of view, and then
the only time you actually kind of see his parents
was a super wide shot, where to me is like
a storyteller, it's like you want to like give Ezra
a hug, but as an a d were so far away,
and once people are going through grief, there's nothing you
can really do to heal it other than just try
to be there for him, which is what Canaan does
(33:09):
very powerful last like thirty seconds of the show.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And then to your point, John, and I think you said,
like the difference between season one Canaan, how he might
have handled this situation versus this Canaan, and it's like
a there's a gentleness that I think is newer. You know,
he handles Ezra with such care and like empathy, not
(33:37):
that he wasn't an empathetic character before, but just that
you know, he might have been a little more lectury
versus there's just like a real care and sweetness and
gentleness that I noticed that in this episode. And I
really I mean, this is kind of on a personal note,
but it was really touching to watch this exchange or
(33:57):
this episode of Canaan and Azra because it kind of
reminded me of you know, you were you were so young,
Taylor when you start we started his show, and I know,
you know, you and Freddie's real life friendship and his
kind of mentorship or sort of big big brother role
and little brother role, and it was just so sweet
(34:18):
to like, just because I know how you guys are
in real life and that there was there was there's
there's genuine care behind these you know, these scenes where
you're acting quote unquote but you're you know you're not.
There's genuine care and uh and friendship there. So I
just thought that was like an a I.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Could hear that from Freddy and I was thinking, that
is very sweet. Yeah, what are some of the questions
you have for J C.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
John My random one when I was watching, because in
the beginning of you know, Ezra has the visions astral
projecting and and the other thing that Canaan and Haarrah
just kind of burning the midnight oil and like the
living room with the ghost. I'm like, do they not
wear night where? Like there's no pajamas and Star Wars
that was my I was like, because there's no questions,
(35:06):
but you know, Jacon will definitely know some sort of
answer to that. But like I was like, wait, do
they not like they just maybe because you always have
to be ready because they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
With how about when she.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Has wardrobe changes?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You got how about the like worms that come in
to try and kill her. She's wearing pajamas while she's sleeping,
isn't she.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Guys, she wears a night where Yeah, and in episode
three too, she's wearing like like a nightgown. Yeah, you guys,
she's just let me tell you about Star Wars pajamas.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, I think it's budget. I'm gonna go with JC
maybe budget. Like they kind of finally go out in
their armor to sleep.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
It's like it's like you never have no one ever
has to use the restroom, No one's ever eaten a sandwich.
Do sandwiches exist in this galaxy?
Speaker 8 (35:55):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Like there's and nobody changes, nobody like you, Like there
might be a sandwich saying bron gosh, no one's eating
a bowl of pasta in Star Wars. I'm just saying that,
I do not think you know, no one. No one
on Rebels is ever like I'm starving? Can we stop?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And just I want spaghetti?
Speaker 5 (36:17):
That would be a bottle episode Like me, I would.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
Be used to being like, No, I'm just saying some
of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs are not being fulfilled
on in Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Like I'm just.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Saying, no, that's a great point to bring. And uh, yeah,
they do. I think in season three because they call
they called the refresher and said not the restaurant. They
called a refresher when a P two joins the crew
and on official base. So and I believe, and JC
can fact check me on this, I believe that was
a Timothy's On thing. Timothys On of course wrote the novel.
(37:00):
But if I'm wrong, please listeners, don't yell at me.
JC will correct me. Don't worry. But yeah, but like
I know, in Skeleton Crew they actually had like a
food court where they're eating. But yeah, and Rebels, you're right,
they don't like it would be nice, like, hey, guys,
I know we got to do this, but our blood
sugar is getting really low, and if he wants to function,
we're gonna need some carbohydrates.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Yeah something.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
It looks like that's why your.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Aim was off this episode for Ezra, because you remember
he's kind of missing him, like, oh he's it's hungry.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I did appreciate that, Canaan said, because this goes into
that and a sort of more quoteitient thing when he's like, hey,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
The moons are setting that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
That is a kind of sweet like dropping us back in,
but also funny, like this is our Star Wars version
of There's two right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
I'm seeing something called a Ronto roaster at the docking
Base seven food and Cargo at Galaxies Edge. It roasted pork,
grilled pork, sausage, tangy slaw in peeda bread. And then
for the children, there is something here a Thorian uh
(38:05):
pasta rings.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
I think it said hold on.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Jac watch out, yeah, like videos or something.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
Plant based meat, marinara sauce with pasta. So I don't
know that's a park thing, but it is in the
It is in the Star Wars area.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
So hey, there are fans who know all about this,
so you can at us about this topic. And and
of course.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
JC absolutely absolutely and uh yeah. The other thing is
like the fall of the White Loaf cat. So I
I had where my mind went was. I was like,
was this a nod to the matrix? Because Neo had
to follow the white rabbit and that led to him understanding.
So I asked somebody who would know the answer to that.
I slid into Henry. Hey, can you hear my beard?
(38:55):
You know? No, Henry I did, and he said, who
are you? Please, don't ever mention to me again. He
was very gracious about it, and uh, I think he
enjoyed that. That's where my mind went. But he said,
this is more about I know I'm talking about the
White Loaf cut. Heverybody from Henry Gilward. This is more
about Ezra's forced connection to the natural world that I
(39:17):
was trying to put forward, kind of like gifts to
the spirit force, powers can manifest in different ways. For Ezra,
it was his ability to connect with creatures and he's
like Canaan didn't have that power. Anakin did, but he
kind of muscled control over creatures where with Ezra he's
a little more sensitive. And I was like, oh, that's
very like inside. So he was very gracious, give me
(39:39):
this very uh detailed answer.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
We need more that. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
You reached out to him, and he pretty much shut
down my matrix theory. So I was like, yeah, we
like it, we like it anyways, well because I thought
it is Ezra the one like like Neo. So he's
got to follow his uh his white totem. But that
sounded weird, your white total, right, anyway, let's follow the
(40:06):
white low cut bright the fact check with jac what
have we got today?
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Oh?
Speaker 11 (40:13):
He quit apparently you know, I have to turn I
have to push like eight buttons to get my camera
back on. And it's been I feel like the entirety
of Los Angeles is sick. So I'm a little bit slow.
I don't have a lot for this. I have a
lot from the last three minutes of discussion from you guys.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Let's go. We say we like to say for you.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
We didn't want to give you too easy of the time.
We had like no questions journalist.
Speaker 11 (40:45):
The first thirty five minutes. There's I had one thing,
and now I've got twelve. The one thing I picked
out from the show, So when they're escaping at the
end of this, when the Imperials are backing, Garrel Soto
mentions escape plan Delta, which I thought was interesting because
(41:09):
it's kind of.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
A callback to.
Speaker 11 (41:12):
Luke Skywalker against the ad Ats, which we can discuss
more next episode in on how they use attack pattern
delta to attack.
Speaker 6 (41:24):
That was Luke Skywalker's plan.
Speaker 11 (41:26):
So attack plan Delta is called out here, and I
guess it's where multiple ships flee for hyperspace while command
ship stays behind us a diversion. So again, after the
very soulful conversation you guys have, I don't know how
(41:47):
interesting escape plan Delta is.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
It's interesting, John.
Speaker 11 (41:51):
You mentioned Clancy Brown in your intro. You came back
to it later on that he played one of the
best versions of Lex Luthor, and the DC Animated also
wanted to call out he played Savage Opress in the
Clone Wars, Darth Maul's brother. My first intro to Clancy
was Starship Troopers, which I recommend everybody go back and
(42:14):
watch for no good reason at all.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
Right now, Taylor had hit emotion.
Speaker 11 (42:21):
Taylor, you talked about do other cartoons give young characters
the opportunity for such heavy emotional arcs. The only one
that I could pull. I mean, Justice League Animated season
two does a lot with that, but it's more between
Green Lantern and Hawk Girl, which are adult characters. The
(42:44):
only spot where I could really remember a cartoon that
I was like, Wow, this is a lot was the
character of Aang in Avatar The Last Airbender, who's kind
of like wakes up after all this time and has
the save the world essentially, which was also a Dave
Filoni show. I'm going to go with John's interpretation of
the White City of Lothol. I'm not going to add
(43:07):
anything to that. I did have something to add to
what Tia was saying about Taylor's relationship with Freddie and
how she could hear Canaan's gentleness in his approach to
mentoring him versus lecturing, and I thought that was really
interesting because it's not something I picked up in the show,
(43:28):
but hearing you guys discuss it, it made me think
about Obi Wan and Anakin, and when you watch obi
Wan mentor Anakin throughout the entire series, it's almost grating,
how like lecturing and how much he puts down Anakin
throughout all of the episodes, and I wonder or throughout
(43:51):
the movies, and I wonder how much how present that
was in the writer's minds for Rebels, in that if
Obi Wan's tutoring in that way impacted Anakin's decision and
need to find other mentors i e. Palpatine and aid
It in his path to the dark Side, was it
(44:16):
conscious that that's what happened? And so in Rebels, we
need to put Ezra's mentor on a different path, maybe
start him at the same point, And let's show what
happens if the teacher goes this direction instead of that direction,
because we've already seen what happens when you know, the
Jedi council babies him and holds him back and holds
(44:37):
him back. So I thought that was really interesting. Pajamas
in Star Wars, Taylor was right. Amidala does wear pajamas
in episode two. Anakin also sleeps with his shirt off
in I believe episode.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
Three three, he's got a robe and everything.
Speaker 11 (45:00):
Yeah, my controversial take, and I'm so sorry that we're
going to wade into these waters. But the one thing
I have to say about characters never changing their costumes, which, Taylor,
you've hit on an animation, there's like budgetary to it.
I guess the one question and I'll leave it up
(45:20):
to the fans. I'm not gonna hazard an opinion on this.
But in the Ahsoka Live action show, which takes place
a decade after what we are experiencing right now, and
Hara is an accomplished general who's done all of these things,
(45:40):
why is she still wearing the same outfit ten years
later that she wears on this show? Like even Luke
and Lea changed their outfits movie to movie. Why is
Harrah still wearing the same thing? I mean questions?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Ahsoka looks is wearing different stuff from when she from
Home Wars, right, I mean, now that she's older, she
looks different, her makeup is different, her outfit is slightly different.
So then why is poor Hairra still still.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
If I was a kid, my arguments my parents would
be like, you tell me to be like, these people
will be follow the right path. They sleep in their
clothes that they were on the playground. I just go
to sleep in my stuff, get up in the same thing,
because I think it's just funny, Like how can you
be asleep wearing that yeah, never fly.
Speaker 5 (46:31):
Yeah, yeah, let me tell you what I think about it. No, kid,
I'm not this episode, but you never know. If you
got you know, if people are liking the chaos, I'll
hold back with this episode. You never know, but no, no, sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 11 (46:43):
Yeah, So, you know, I think within the context of
the show, I can see it. Within the broader context
of the universe, maybe there should be some other costume
changes made.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
They got to find an outlet store in the outer
Rim or something, you know.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Just I mean, Sabine changes outfit's from season to seas
all the time.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
This is true.
Speaker 8 (47:06):
I'm saying, I just didn't know if it was like
a pilot's uniform type of deal. And maybe she has
a number of them. You know, it's not the same
para pants.
Speaker 11 (47:15):
Like Kevin Smith's or Homer Simpson's closets, where it's all
the same thing, but there's one hundred versions of it.
Speaker 7 (47:22):
It's kind of I don't.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Know, she's the Johnny Cash of US Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (47:28):
Also, it's kind of a flave thing. It's just sort
of her.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
Yeah, she's like.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Just too busy being Arrah that she can't you know,
she didn't have time or Sabine is like that's a
priority for hers to like really kind of you know,
express her artistry through like her her armor and her
helmet and such. Whereas you know, Space Mom has a
(47:57):
lot more on her plate. She's got things to do.
She doesn't have time to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
The onto them they're born with clothes.
Speaker 6 (48:05):
They might not be clothed. It might just be part
of that.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
They haven't proven otherwise yet.
Speaker 11 (48:10):
Yeah, like Chewbacca, Chewbacca never puts on clothes.
Speaker 6 (48:13):
Maybe it's the same thing.
Speaker 11 (48:14):
Yeah, Chewbacca hasn't changed clothes between the movies So Low
and Episode nine.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
He's naked the whole time.
Speaker 11 (48:23):
Famously, George Lucas got studio notes back in the seventies
about why does the will he not wear pants?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
It sounds funny he doesn't need pants because he's a
free spirit.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Yeah, Ze wars pants, but that's not free in the
same way.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I feel like the more like to Go Tea. They
took Rob McCrory's drying. They're like more.
Speaker 7 (48:49):
Subtle.
Speaker 6 (48:51):
Up we talked about John. You mentioned the refresher.
Speaker 11 (48:55):
I do believe the origin of that is Timothy's on
but I could not confirm it. I feel like the
origin of a lot of things is probably Timothy's on,
and if it's not Timothy's on, it was just prior
to Timothy's on with the West End Games stuff. And
we've mentioned before in the fact check, Mandalorian is the
first time that they were allowed to actually show a
bathroom in Star Wars Mandalorian season one, we talked a
(49:19):
little bit about Star Wars food. The first instance I
can think of of Star Wars food is obviously Luke
is having breakfast or whatever lunch dinner in a New
Hope with his aunt and uncle, and again he digs
into some ration bars on Degobah with Yoda and then
(49:46):
Wickett the e Walk in Return of the Jedi shares
a rice cake with Princess Leah. The first time I
can think of beyond that is Luke Skywalker is talking
to Oh and I'm so sorry, I haven't read this
book since nineteen.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
Ninety four, but I think it was.
Speaker 11 (50:04):
Luke Skywalker talking to C three Po in Air to
the Empire, which came out in nineteen ninety one, about
Lando introducing him to hot chocolate, was like an earth
thing that like, we're like, why don't they just eat
pasta well like hot chocolate was introduced to Luke Skywalker
by Lando in the mid nineties, and John the Gilroy
(50:30):
info was awesome, and I just wanted to say, if
you're going to be wrong about your matrix reference, like,
I think what mister mister Gilroy shared was a great
way to be absolutely wrong about something.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Well, Okay, he never said was wrong. He just didn't
confirm that that's what it was. So let's let's be
let's let's just make sure with your fact check portion
that the packs are straight. He didn't say I was wrong.
He just said, oh, this is what I meant.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I just texted him he said, you were wrong. I'm kidding. No,
I agree. I like the White Rabbit.
Speaker 6 (51:05):
That's all I got there was. It was a very
heady episode, more so than.
Speaker 5 (51:13):
I'm getting hetty with you taking that cheap shot of me.
Now anyways, I can uh. I have an appointment today
my therapist, so it'll be fine anyways.
Speaker 6 (51:24):
Somehow.
Speaker 5 (51:25):
Yeah, yeah, you don't got to take shots to me.
Speaker 6 (51:30):
I know you know where I lived.
Speaker 5 (51:31):
That's trouble, okay, You now you're turned into something that's
not going to be I'm just like I'm just saying
you don't have to I don't have to catch trays.
Well if if it's behind my back, I don't hear.
I can't control that. But I'm right here, man.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You don't know.
Speaker 5 (51:45):
We're all supposed to be family here and supportive.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
But anyways, to me and Taylor, you.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Take the cheap shots.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
To me, oh I do, and I will no cheap shot.
It's just like just straight up this is what I'm doing.
But anyways, thanks Chasey as always, and thank you to
our listeners. We know you have a choice in podcast,
so we appreciate you choosing ours. We will see you
next week. But until then, Taylor has more info on
his podcast or he just has our outro, it's going
to be one of the two. Ur both, but uh
you guys. Shooting music. Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership
(52:20):
with iHeart Podcasts Producing, Hosted by Vanessa Marshall, TiO Surkar,
Taylor Gray and John Ley Brody executive producer and in
house star Wars guru slash back checker j c Riifenberg.
Our music was composed by Mikey Flash. Our cover art
was created by Neil Fraser. Of Neil Fraser Designs. Special
thanks to Holly Free and Aaron Kaufman over at iHeart,
Ivan krascor At, Willie Morrison, Devor Trasy Canobio, George Lucas
(52:42):
for creating this universe we love so much, and of
course all of our amazing listeners. Follow us on Instagram
at Potter Rebellion and email us at Potter Rebellion Pod
Hosts And Creators
Vanessa Marshall
Taylor Gray
Tiya Sircar
Jon Lee Brody
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