August 5, 2024 • 32 mins
The guys get a one-of-a-kind, uncensored look from the prison’s warden about transitioning from housing many on death row to the rehabilitation prison it is today. Then, hear from an incarcerated man who’s trying to better himself from murderer to mathematician.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, it's Gavin Newsom and today we have a
remarkable episode. We go behind the scenes, we go behind
the walls. We go in to death row at San
Quentin Prison. San Quentin Prison one of the most iconic
prisons anywhere in the world for one notable reason. It
has the largest death row in the Western Hemisphere. You
(00:20):
know the names from Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, the knight Stalker,
Charles Manson even spent some time at San Quentin. We'll
go into death row for the first time since death
row has been shut down. Not the prisoners were released,
but death Row now is being converted into general prison population.
(00:42):
The reason we're at San Quentin is because of remarkable
reforms that are taking shape, focusing on public safety, focusing
on re entry, focusing on rehabilitation. We'll talk to incarcerated individuals,
We'll talk to the warden, We'll talk to guards. We'll
talk a little bit about the history of Marshawn, whose
uncle was a guard in San Quentin Prison. I even run.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Into an old baseball teammate from Little League in the
yard at San Quentin. So come in join us behind
the scenes in this raw, unfiltered and real conversation about
life at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Man, what's hand in Man? You got Marshaw, Bisma Lynch.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Doug Hendrickson and Gavin Newsome and you're listening to politickets.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
You're knowing to be you known to be guys. Good
to see you today.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
We're going into San Quentin to learn more about this
place and what it's all about, and where.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
They're going with movement and where they're going with the
programs they have, and just to kind of show everybody
what we're learning.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're in the oldest and probably the most notorious prison
in the United States of America eighteen fifty two, the
largest death row in the Western hemisphere, and it's also
now the most notorious prison for reforms in America.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
With something we call the California model.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
A few years back, we said it course for a
new strategy and new approach to rehabilitation and also public safety.
We want to focus on the fact that ninety five percent,
ninety five percent of the folks that come here are released.
They don't end up here, they don't die here. Folks
that cycle through this system, we want them back home
(02:24):
as better neighbors because they're going to be your neighbors.
So this is a public safety effort, a public safety
in issue to make sure people don't come back here.
And the reality is a recidivism rate, the number of
people that reoffend is off the charts if you don't
get programs in prison. So the smartest thing we can do,
the toughest thing we can do on crime, is get
programs in prisons like this but at scale, and get
(02:46):
people hope that on the outside they can turn their
lives around and at the same time make our community
strong or more resilient, and say, so, we're gonna have
a chance to see some of these programs.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Talk to the prisoners directly.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Talk to the warden who's.
Speaker 7 (02:59):
A change agent.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
A warden, by the way, who's had real lived experience
with family members.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
His father was incarcerated.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Uh knows what he's talking about. One of the most
exciting in reform oriented wardens in America that happens to
be here at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And then we're gonna walk through death row.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
We're gonna walk through death row that you name it
as some of the most notorious people, uh that have
spent the greater part of their lives have died in
death row, have a chance to see the old barbaric
gas chamber, uh and see the side of the last
lethal injection in California all today.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sounds like you got a pretty full uh lineup today.
Speaker 8 (03:36):
Huh And we got a lineup.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Brother.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
You you ain't rolling with me, Marshaan Levenussen on politicket,
Come in your way, dude.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You haven't been on death row.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
No, I've never been in the prison.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
You've never been in the prison.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
No, teckt.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
I'm so excited for you. I'm actually excited for you
like that.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That's kind of I'm actually happy and.
Speaker 8 (04:01):
Excited for you.
Speaker 9 (04:03):
I mean that, By the way, you can appreciate every
developer they want this. Every year during the budget we
have people with new proposals and how they'll.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Take care of tearing it down just to give it
to us for a dollar a year and we'll take
care of the product. This is the one everyone wants
because it's I mean, it's bren fucking County. It's the
whole thing, and you ferry service right up to the
new development. And it's massive land. I mean, this is
literally some most valuable land anyone. You right on the
(04:37):
water man on point yeah, Richmond, Yeah, you appreciate.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
It, but calified that goddamn text ship.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Look young to get Warton.
Speaker 10 (04:45):
I gave you an opportunity so crazy.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
This is no shawshake redemption with the shoot and tie
on the and the this is okay, but.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's by the way, eighteen what is eighteen fifty two?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's the oldest prison that was when it was built,
was just designed to deal with the entire incarcerated population
for California, and then we went on to build another.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Well, so was this built before Alcatraz eighteen two?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
How was Alcatraz now alcoltizer on much later?
Speaker 8 (05:12):
Right?
Speaker 10 (05:12):
State state prison, state prison, as the boss said, Now
we're kind of the lead lead marking this California model.
So I think first time here, first time, Oh, very exciting.
First time is the best time because I think we
get to change the perception of how people see some
of our prisons in California.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, but doug Old, this is the main place from
a deferred maintenance perspective, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Struggles.
Speaker 10 (05:37):
We wanted to welcome the right way.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I welcome to St. Quentin.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
All feel comfortable. I'm very uncomfortable. That's too funny. Get
in here, man.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Funny how many inmates here currently?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Our account's about thirty four hundred thirty four hundred. I've
been hanging out with this guy for years now, and
every time.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
I'm there he is. Man. I've been trying to get
him a son, some ship over everything above.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, they's just everything by the book, everything by
the man.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He poked about a book, Yes, by the book. This
ain't a boy.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
A book's got it, you know what for?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Just know their whole life trying to stay out of
this motherfucker, and you want to come in the.
Speaker 8 (06:25):
Mother got maybe back. Showed me how fucked up in them?
You got to where everybody want to come out of it.
Speaker 9 (06:32):
I had a free Sunday last Sunday and was hanging
out here.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Mar Sean checked this out.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
You gotta come in here, man?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Is this you have it?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
Opened?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Very got up for the dungeons.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I can't get it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
By the time mar Sean has to check us out,
got to check us out.
Speaker 10 (06:47):
This kind of sounderation of where we're going.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So this this is the dungeon.
Speaker 8 (06:51):
This is what it used to look like.
Speaker 10 (06:52):
The stuff people in here, No toilets.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Just walls.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, why you think I would want to see it
because you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Didn't know that it's just to see it, man, Marshaan.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Man, I got all they got to get you a
real dumb I don't need.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
No dose nine is worth gonna look at me.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You think about people in there shipping piss, understand can
get up. I'm just saying that ain't exciting to me.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh, but it's important to understand the past so we
don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
When we come back, we'll go into the San Quentin
yard where folks are getting a little bit of exercise
and taking a little time uh for themselves, including one
incarcerated individual, Reginald Thorpe, who is from Oakland, California, and
has been serving time for a murder conviction. He's been
incarcerated now some twenty six years. It's a conversation. I
(07:47):
never thought we'd have a raw and unfiltered way that
takes some twists in turns that make it a fascinating
look inside the prison at San Quentin.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Mm hmm, good, what's up man? Good to be back.
I told you I don't working. I'm not walking away
a lot of work.
Speaker 8 (08:15):
How you doing.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I'll be great. What's happening?
Speaker 8 (08:19):
We got a chase?
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Oh god, nobody break the lines happen?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I had what's up with the.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
East? Broke up?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Dealing honey selling honey.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Stand right now though? How Haggenberger is?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, they just was mom and they just hit the
gas station right there by the way.
Speaker 8 (08:44):
Where was that yesterday?
Speaker 9 (08:46):
At the Shell gas station in Hagenberger?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Bro, you was the Shell.
Speaker 8 (08:50):
I spend more time in opening than you do. My
You're just coming through there and doing a little pop
up camera. I wish I was the fourth time I've
been to that damn Shell.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
That's what we raised, going and raised. But don't trip
they You know why you can do that because they've
seen you with me, so they.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Like that. Though.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Bro, When I was a kid, I used to run
around in that area. I used to when they had
the castle and the Malibu over there.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It wasn't nowhere. When I'm old school, all that parking
lot and stuff, None.
Speaker 8 (09:22):
Of that was a lot. Man.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
I used to break into the coliseum to feed myself
during the eighth corn Dogs Hot Dogs Ship.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And then they take all the teams out of town
and then expect people to go to work.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
We still got we got the we know you know,
we know how to we know how to put the
mix on.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
Everything's ship.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, those stuff mag it is.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Yeah, what's your name name?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Broch know yeah, yeah, respect Berger.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
What you was doing. We've done a lot on politics.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's not even politics.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
I'm not even kidding by the way.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We've literally I'm after reading it's the most dangerous you
don't know this, Doug, the most dangerous gas station in
the United States of America.
Speaker 8 (10:08):
I did read this.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It's a shell station.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's the last station before you go in and return
your rental car. And they were they, I mean, fifteen
to twenty robberies a day. And when I read about
this kid who had a backpack on and they dragged
the kid with the backpack on, this eight year old kid,
and pulled them out to rip the backpack on, that's when.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, we sat the whole courtdor I mean the Hilton.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
The Hilton's gone now the Oakland Hilton we lost.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
How did he get like that? Though?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
That's a go back years though that didn't just happen
over night. That's the system, the way that things was
designed over here, Like it's not enough money in Oakland
no more. They done all the people the way that
they get the property tax over there, they getting that
money and they not reinvestigated that pushed me out.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
They not They not doing that no more.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
I remember when I when I was a kid, I
used to be able to go to the recreation center.
I didn't even have to worry about getting in trouble
or being in the streets. But now there's not no
resources there no more. They taking the money and they
holding on to it instead of putting it back in there.
It's like they want to put more money in the
law enforcement and lacking people up.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Rather than trying to find solutions to the problems. That's
really at the root of that stuff.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
There's a lot of people out there home being storm
and then it's nothing for them to do.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Well, we'll try that minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right now, it's gotten so bad that we do have
to We got to put a lid on how bad
it's gotten. But when none of us have forgotten the
original centers, that relates for lack of investment, and so
that's happening in parallel at unprecedented levels as well. To
reinvest back in the community.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
One thing I know about openly as a child, openly
took care of me when my parents was using drugs
and stuff. When I went out in the streets, openly
took care of me. That's why I'm still right here
today because the city of Openly itself took care of
me despite all the bad stuff that was happening in
New York City. Openly took care of me when my.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Parents couldn't take care of me. Really, and we got
a spirit out there.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
That's why Steph and Draymond and Clay when they went
to San Francisco, they didn't They wasn't feeling that because
they didn't have no say in that.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
They wanted to stay in the town. There's like that.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
Ain't my that ain't my choice. But they wanted they
loved the town. They wanted to stay out there. We
got a culture out here. We got a culture in
that spirity. Opening Acorna never died. No matter what they do,
no matter how many people they locked up, how many
police they put on the streets.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Always that's what it is. That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Look because you just explained some ship to him, like
will chopping it up. We kicked game because we politic
for our little uh for our podcast and hell of Ship,
I stopped politics.
Speaker 8 (12:44):
But I'm saying, but.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
What you just did that you just you feel me
the ism that you just gave, like that's the politi
and the feeling though away from his politics, but you
being able to explain something like that, you feel me
that shit is big. You feel me because motherfucking don't
hear it on that type of level. And then when
you hear it coming straight directly from you rather than
(13:08):
you looking at some numbers, all we got it because
it don't come like that. It come all the budget
this and we gotta do this and all the smart
ass all that other ship.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
When you're hungry, that's.
Speaker 8 (13:21):
What I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
But when you able to break it down to him
like that and tell them straight up, because the way
that you know, they go see it on that other level,
that's that's all they looking at.
Speaker 8 (13:33):
Do these numbers matter?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So when you talk about they taking money out of
the community and shit, they looking at Okay, well last
time we put in X, Y and Z for this project,
and then they looking at the project, what did that
project do? How much money did that project uh bring
in for us like Okay, well that didn't do right,
So fuck, were gonna take the money that we was
getting for this and we're gonna move it over here.
(13:55):
Now they're just moving shit around just to figure out
and try to see what's gonna work, what's gonna stick.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
And one at the end of the day went.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
About that one youngster who life They say that not
talking about that stopped from going in that story robbing
that that convenience store on uh On Haggenburger are coming
up in near hell of deep.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
But that's how that's how you feel that they talk
about people going in there robbing and doing all this stuff.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Talk about that one you that didn't decide to go
on that mission and going a different direction.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
They don't talk about that that.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
One young that one youngster ended up turning into that
youngster like me. And like you said, you from the deep,
you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
From the north.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I lived on fifty fifth Field, so when I had
to go to school, I had to go all the
way through the east, all the way back to the
North and then to come back home.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
So I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
The hotels in the hotels and fifty five.
Speaker 8 (14:45):
I don't know, been in there getting active.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
A whole lot of time.
Speaker 8 (14:59):
And I'm not like not like this.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
He used to when I was when I was still
doing my stuff. He used to be running around on
the level four yard chase around.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
God Bro.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Like you know, I'm happy that we got a warding
like this, that know where people like myself came from.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Like he was on the line when I was on
the line actively doing hell of ship Bro.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
He seen me grow up in CSB sacked and for
him to see me then up and up now to
who I am.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
It speaks value we both put all taken.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
Look what the you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
But what's what's so interesting about this conversation and mirrors?
But literally we were having exactly this conversation last week.
I mean, I know, you give me ship for going
back for the fourth time to this that the place
without any cameras, each time, without any camera to make
the point, I'm going to keep coming back over and
over and over again, and I've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Look, not the mayor of Oakland.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
There's fourn in seventy six cities in California, but it's
out of control.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There, and so we stepped up. We stepped up the
last six nine months.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But I will say it, but it's been out of control.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
But it takes out of control in the eighties, start
bringing cocaine.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
In this, I get it.
Speaker 8 (16:19):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You can't I know, I can't make up for all
the macro, all the history. But I know I understand.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
But what things really started to spend in the last few.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Years in particular, and so we have significantly stepped up
our investments.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But the point you're making is a difficult point. Right
at the same time we should be I mean, I
get it, that sort of binary, this notion that okay,
he's just putting.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
More cops on the street. That's bullshit, locking people up.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's not going to solve the problem versus addressing all
those systemic issues.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
So for us, it's both, and it's both.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And but I got to do I've got to put
a lid on it because it's so bad now that
people people are leavish and droves, businesses, they're leaving, and
it's just gotten to a point where no.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
One is comfort.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, just we've got we've been saturating with the HP
and others supporting local law enforcement. They're wildly understaff. They're
not doing any pursuits, they're not making it. We're not
prosecuting even people that are being arrested. And you've got folks.
I mean, we had I had a member of my
staff listeners, a member of my staff with her daughter
and a gun was put to the kid's head in
(17:28):
the stroller to take the diapers. I mean, at what
point do I say, Okay, well, just that's the kind
of stuff like That's that's where you draw the line
and there's got to be some accountability. So it's it's again,
I don't dismiss anything you're saying, quite the contract. I'm
actually praising what you're saying. But at the same time,
I'm trying to express hopefully an understanding that we also
need to deal with the lawlessness at the moment and
(17:51):
put a lid on it, but without overcompensating going back
to the old days of overincarceration.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And that's why we're here, man, that's the whole point.
We used to do with housing authority, used to pull
and then come back. That's all.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
That's all the other to the Task Force Oakley Police
Department in Alameda County sheriffs or police. We will run
get away as soon as you as soon as you leave,
we come back out and do what he was doing.
So it's it's like, Okay, I'm understand that you're trying
to just put this band aid on there, but really
(18:27):
that they ain't need triage. That need it needs some
real like somebody. And then a lot of the carns
that's happening in that area ain't even people from open
that's none. With the stuff that I saw, the cars
that I'll be saying, I'm old school.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Some of the people that got the ship beat out.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
Of them, Bro, why did you bringing heat conversation?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah, bro, you're about to get after after everything, and man,
we got this, so he don't even worry too.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's we're also trying to address one hundred percent, right.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
But the US, the people that was enforcing that, they
locked up.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
They locked up right here.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Some year.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I hear the people that was enforcing that they've been
in prison for the last twenty twenty five years.
Speaker 8 (19:10):
Well that's I mean, that's good.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That brings us long winnedly to the actual why we're here,
which is part of this rehabilitation we're doing here the
new calib arder model, trying to scale this stuff. You'll
see it physically when that wall comes down. And the
work we're doing, and I don't know if you know,
the work I've been doing for decades now on reforming
the damn system and investing in those alternative pathways.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
So we address the sub process.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Who from that who who from the system?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's that you're working with in order for it be
another lapse, because it's like every time it's like, yeah,
we're trying to go and you know, rework the system
and change, But do y'all bring people that then come
from that ship who actually like no.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Change?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
This is where this is why we continue to keep
running into that same when we get.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Here, what's what's this warden doing here?
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Appoints the wardens. We're gonna figure it out. Don't find
these guys.
Speaker 10 (20:07):
Their ideas come like we build us together, right, it's
a community. So when we get that input, we take
their ideas and invest so when they see something done,
we work together. That's one thing Stas in the population,
we got more similarities and differences.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
We all we all work here together.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So then how can y'all get that together and a
place like this, But then out in the free world
is running regular.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
There's more structure in places like this. I get it
than it is actually yet you feel me though at
the house.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And then it just come to a point where when
from my my understanding, my respect, when I see somebody
come out, uh, come home from doing like fifteen or something,
when they get back into the you know what I mean,
the new world, they out of touch with everything.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
You feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
And now because the individuals who've been outside, these little
young motherfuckers, they on.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
Some other ship.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So when somebody come home and they trying to enforce
what was you know, I mean, how we even establish
this foundation for our neighborhood or what's going on. Ain't
nobody trying to hear that shit anyway. So it's always
a disconnect. But at the end of the day, the
same system in which we still have and that is
still rocking right now, is the same one that we
just continue to just go around and circles with.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Now, the thing that we ain't talking about is everybody
know that this shit is a big business.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So I mean, why the fuck if I'm getting billions,
why the fuck would I want to go change the
system that's gonna continue to keep feeding my pockets.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
Now you get individuals who.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Got a respectful mind and a decent heart, like yourself,
and you come in here and you're like, damn, I
want to change, and then it's gonna come to a
point where you're gonna be like, well, fuck, I donet
hit my ceiling with these individuals.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
They not letting me get no, because if we do that,
it's gonna create real change.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But that real change is gonna hurt somebody, real change
when it comes to the higher repts and where all
his money is going and how all this shit is
funneled around though, because we all had look, we all
like he say something to it, like you know what,
motherfuckers always talk about what they're doing, how they need
to do this, and how they need to do that,
and it's like, motherfucker, I would love to see them.
Speaker 8 (22:18):
You give them this position and let's see what they'll do.
Thank you. But it's not that shit hard though. But man.
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Gatherings been in the position since he was the mere
San Francisco, and I don't know what he was doing
before that. He was already gathering his support network like
he he gathering, right.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
But he have people that support him there, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Be able to where he could rely on them to
take care of shit that he can't see or do
because he got other things.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
And by him having that support network, it allows him
to elevate and elevate for like twenty twenty eight. Right,
he's still.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Dealing with what we got going on in California, like
on a higher level. That's gonna that's gonna paying itself out.
Hopefully we don't get some body that that's a dictator.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
And but he gonna for me in the mix.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You run the mayor of Oakland's bitching about what I'm doing.
Speaker 8 (23:10):
You should be.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Running for what he said, and and and fab is
your vice mayor.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Man, don't go turn this Ben, tell me in the
office you talking about you coming to Oakland four.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Time just in the last look your last guy awake,
Look time on you man go down.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
To city hall telling hey, look, hey, you see I
got my big ass bag outside.
Speaker 8 (23:41):
Tell you I got that we're finla take my big
ass bag and get the bags.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
And I'm sad about Oakland though, bro, Like I'm really
like every time I watched the news.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
My heart to just go out to my city. Bro
Open took care of me as a child. I went
to MacArthur.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
I went to all down near every elementary school in
East Oakley because my parents when they was using drugs,
they drug and.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
So all through Oakland. So I went to all the schools.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Well, look at history of Black Panthers, Bill Russell, Yeah,
I mean, Ricky Henderson, everybody, I mean every I mean
it was unbelievable terms the history of Oakland.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yeah, that's why Draymond played, and and Steph wanted to
stay right.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
They then when they started they little legacy with the
Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That energy that we had and developed into town, that
was with him. That's what got we just talked to Draymond.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Draymond said that when he came to Oakland, he fell
home because reminded him of Detroit.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
He was he was one decision away from not being
in your like me. Yep, he was one choice away.
I just I made the wrong choice.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Draymond made the right choice and he went and played
college from Mischigan State.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Would you play?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I didn't play anything. I was in the streets. I
didn't even I was trying to find me something.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
What would you would you play?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I probably I wouldn't have paid no sports. Okay, Now
I'm more.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
I was.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Since I've been incarcer ready to rehabilitation. I found that
I got a serious passion for mathematics.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
I love math.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I love numbers because numbers don't lie how long you've
been in your work.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I didn't even at this institute for five years?
Speaker 5 (25:16):
What about overall?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Twenty six years?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Twenty se okay, and when you're getting out, I.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Don't have no idea, no idea.
Speaker 8 (25:21):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
I should have been going in March, but they said
because some confidential information that was putting my seafoul, the
board determined that I didn't follow the parole boards of recommendations,
and they told me, I gotta wait until twenty twenty.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Is it heard to battle through daily not knowing there's
no end date?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And is your family this your family?
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Here? Is your family?
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Come visit The reason why it's not hard because it's
consequences for choices. And I made a decision to take
somebody life, And in California, the consequence for taking somebody
life and getting found guilty of murder is spending the
rest of your life in prison, So I'm not I
regret what I did, and I understand that it's a
possibility I could die in here because I took somebody's life,
(26:03):
so I.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Deal with that in a way according to the law.
But however, I am optimistic. I believe that I made
the change and the transformation to go back and be
a productive member mean us what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
And I appreciate you getting involved in mathematics and doing that, man,
because being in there, no no and day, but you
doing what you're doing.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
It's big.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
A lot of these young people that don't have no
education that's trying to.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Get they GEDs, and even the ones that's in college,
they struggle with math.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
The math, it seemed like it's the most difficult subject.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
And through my rehabilitation, I found that I was passionate
about doing math when I was young men and.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I said, you know what, REGI, I said, what did
you like.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
To do before you start committing crimes, before you start
being bad? I realized I like doing math, and I
was like, you know what, I'm about to hone back
in on that, and I started going to college.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I've made it all the way to calculus.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Too, there's been some times where I've been at the
only African American that institutions.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That was taking uh oculus.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And actually, so that's just one of the are you
mentioned some of these young kids the same plan.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Math whenever they need help, I'm available, okay, and people
tell them like, hey man, he pretty good with math.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
If you need some help. I'm hoping to help anybody
with man. I love math.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's good, but it's taking advantage of the programming.
Speaker 8 (27:22):
And I'll tell you what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Just in back to Marshawn joining me a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Uh, as the guy who ultimately decides whatever the pro
board does doesn't matter unless the governor signs off on it.
All that programming, you have no idea how determined of
that is and how critical that is. And you stack
that stuff up because there's so many folks that are wabblers.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I'll send back they call us en banc or we'll
just reject if you.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Don't see that programming in there, and you get medium
to high risk. Uh you know, I mean those are
the folks that are being sent back. So what you're
doing is profoundly consequential in terms of stacking Uh. That
kind of court for yourself long term, and then you
just got to get through that first.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Hurdle with the name do come across the board. You
feel me, you got you got a resume.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Did. I needed to do some healing up here, like
I was really hurt. Like I went through a lot
of trauma growing up and opened myself. I went through
right and in order for me to change and transform, Bro,
I had to heal myself.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And through these self help groups and having the support networking.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Here, Bro, they help you heal, because if you don't
heal yourself, BRO, you ain't gonna be No, you can't
help nobody.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
You can't help nobody.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But it's crazy that you even say that, because the
last time we just chopped it up with a ship
talk about Draymond. We just chopped it up with him,
and Doug was talking about when he went UH and
tried what's that ship called.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
Therapy therapy.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
He went through therapy for the first time, and like
you feel me, he it was shit going on that
he didn't even know, you know, that was happening with him,
And a lot of it is that trauma that you
you you you gather while you were UH, while you
are youngster though, so by even you saying that, because
we were just talking about it on the way over
here about the uh about like you know, when people
come in to prison, coming to jail, you know what
(29:11):
I mean, supposed to be an opportunity for you to
you know what I mean, uh, rehability, rehabilitate yourself.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
Right. But I'm like, man, at the end of the day,
what the fuck y'all? Like, what really be going on?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Like how much help do motherfuckers really get? Like if
it is like some shit that is needed, how do
you get that? You feel me, how do you get
that in here? For when if motherfucker do get a
date or be able to go ahead to stack the
support that you talking about in order for when you
go to the parole board, motherfucker look at that and
it's you ain't just looking at a sheet of Oh well,
(29:43):
this motherfucker was in here for murder, Aron Robberds all
the shit.
Speaker 8 (29:46):
But this is what the and this is the steps
that this individual.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Took in order to rehabilitate itself in order to get
up out of here. Yeah, but it just look I
don't know, to me, it just seemed like a hunup,
like like I'll tell you, you know, i'd come in here,
visit my pops and ship like you know when you
talk about all right, we're gonna go in here, like nah,
I kind of don't, like, you know, I understand I'm
trying not to go into jail and you trying to
(30:11):
go in the motherfucker just sit down and chop it
up like fuck. But I get it, and I mean,
you know, it's it's really good, you know what I mean,
especially for myself to see this, but then you know
what I mean for you, you know, we come around
and see what's going on.
Speaker 8 (30:30):
And ship like.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
It's some good ship that you feel me though, that
you possibly can do. I just hope that you take
the information that you know that they're given and you
know what I mean, come up with something better. I'm
talking about overall, like not just here, but whole system.
Speaker 8 (30:47):
And you, the motherfucking president, why you just changed it right?
The ship up.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I wish we could just snap our fingers war, but no, no,
but the whole idea of San Quentin's become the model
rehabilitation president in the United States of America, and then
we spread it throughout the rest of the system. So
everything that happens behind that wall will determine that.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
No, bullshit, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Wow. Literally, it's almost verbato the ship you were saying
about Opha.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
It's so interesting to think about it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
He hasn't been outside, but he feels it nonetheless. But
I'm saying it's the same shit. Yeah, yeah, See I
was going in the eighties. He was running around in
the eighties. But the fact that the same shit was
going deep, that's what I'm saying. God, that system shit. No,
I got to get that system and whatever it was
(31:44):
designed to do. The keepers fucking shitty and locked up
in places like this, They designed a hell of a system.
Because think about it for twenty years, it's still the
same shit.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I want to get into that conversation because I can
give you chapter and verse on that deeper. You do
not understand how spot on you are about that. I met,
I bet I would give you some.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
Prequel, and I don't think it's crazy. One system though,
Hey, everybody, it's Gavin Newsom and today we have a
remarkable episode. We go behind the scenes, we go behind
the walls. We go in to death row at San
Quentin Prison. San Quentin Prison one of the most iconic
prisons anywhere in the world for one notable reason. It
has the largest death row in the Western Hemisphere. You
(00:20):
know the names from Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, the knight Stalker,
Charles Manson even spent some time at San Quentin. We'll
go into death row for the first time since death
row has been shut down. Not the prisoners were released,
but death Row now is being converted into general prison population.
(00:42):
The reason we're at San Quentin is because of remarkable
reforms that are taking shape, focusing on public safety, focusing
on re entry, focusing on rehabilitation. We'll talk to incarcerated individuals,
We'll talk to the warden, We'll talk to guards. We'll
talk a little bit about the history of Marshawn, whose
uncle was a guard in San Quentin Prison. I even run.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Into an old baseball teammate from Little League in the
yard at San Quentin. So come in join us behind
the scenes in this raw, unfiltered and real conversation about
life at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Man, what's hand in Man? You got Marshaw, Bisma Lynch.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Doug Hendrickson and Gavin Newsome and you're listening to politickets.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
You're knowing to be you known to be guys. Good
to see you today.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
We're going into San Quentin to learn more about this
place and what it's all about, and where.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
They're going with movement and where they're going with the
programs they have, and just to kind of show everybody
what we're learning.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're in the oldest and probably the most notorious prison
in the United States of America eighteen fifty two, the
largest death row in the Western hemisphere, and it's also
now the most notorious prison for reforms in America.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
With something we call the California model.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
A few years back, we said it course for a
new strategy and new approach to rehabilitation and also public safety.
We want to focus on the fact that ninety five percent,
ninety five percent of the folks that come here are released.
They don't end up here, they don't die here. Folks
that cycle through this system, we want them back home
(02:24):
as better neighbors because they're going to be your neighbors.
So this is a public safety effort, a public safety
in issue to make sure people don't come back here.
And the reality is a recidivism rate, the number of
people that reoffend is off the charts if you don't
get programs in prison. So the smartest thing we can do,
the toughest thing we can do on crime, is get
programs in prisons like this but at scale, and get
(02:46):
people hope that on the outside they can turn their
lives around and at the same time make our community
strong or more resilient, and say, so, we're gonna have
a chance to see some of these programs.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Talk to the prisoners directly.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Talk to the warden who's.
Speaker 7 (02:59):
A change agent.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
A warden, by the way, who's had real lived experience
with family members.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
His father was incarcerated.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Uh knows what he's talking about. One of the most
exciting in reform oriented wardens in America that happens to
be here at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And then we're gonna walk through death row.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
We're gonna walk through death row that you name it
as some of the most notorious people, uh that have
spent the greater part of their lives have died in
death row, have a chance to see the old barbaric
gas chamber, uh and see the side of the last
lethal injection in California all today.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sounds like you got a pretty full uh lineup today.
Speaker 8 (03:36):
Huh And we got a lineup.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Brother.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
You you ain't rolling with me, Marshaan Levenussen on politicket,
Come in your way, dude.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You haven't been on death row.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
No, I've never been in the prison.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
You've never been in the prison.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
No, teckt.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
I'm so excited for you. I'm actually excited for you
like that.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That's kind of I'm actually happy and.
Speaker 8 (04:01):
Excited for you.
Speaker 9 (04:03):
I mean that, By the way, you can appreciate every
developer they want this. Every year during the budget we
have people with new proposals and how they'll.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Take care of tearing it down just to give it
to us for a dollar a year and we'll take
care of the product. This is the one everyone wants
because it's I mean, it's bren fucking County. It's the
whole thing, and you ferry service right up to the
new development. And it's massive land. I mean, this is
literally some most valuable land anyone. You right on the
(04:37):
water man on point yeah, Richmond, Yeah, you appreciate.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
It, but calified that goddamn text ship.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Look young to get Warton.
Speaker 10 (04:45):
I gave you an opportunity so crazy.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
This is no shawshake redemption with the shoot and tie
on the and the this is okay, but.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's by the way, eighteen what is eighteen fifty two?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's the oldest prison that was when it was built,
was just designed to deal with the entire incarcerated population
for California, and then we went on to build another.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Well, so was this built before Alcatraz eighteen two?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
How was Alcatraz now alcoltizer on much later?
Speaker 8 (05:12):
Right?
Speaker 10 (05:12):
State state prison, state prison, as the boss said, Now
we're kind of the lead lead marking this California model.
So I think first time here, first time, Oh, very exciting.
First time is the best time because I think we
get to change the perception of how people see some
of our prisons in California.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, but doug Old, this is the main place from
a deferred maintenance perspective, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Struggles.
Speaker 10 (05:37):
We wanted to welcome the right way.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I welcome to St. Quentin.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
All feel comfortable. I'm very uncomfortable. That's too funny. Get
in here, man.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Funny how many inmates here currently?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Our account's about thirty four hundred thirty four hundred. I've
been hanging out with this guy for years now, and
every time.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
I'm there he is. Man. I've been trying to get
him a son, some ship over everything above.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, they's just everything by the book, everything by
the man.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He poked about a book, Yes, by the book. This
ain't a boy.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
A book's got it, you know what for?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Just know their whole life trying to stay out of
this motherfucker, and you want to come in the.
Speaker 8 (06:25):
Mother got maybe back. Showed me how fucked up in them?
You got to where everybody want to come out of it.
Speaker 9 (06:32):
I had a free Sunday last Sunday and was hanging
out here.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Mar Sean checked this out.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
You gotta come in here, man?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Is this you have it?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
Opened?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Very got up for the dungeons.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I can't get it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
By the time mar Sean has to check us out,
got to check us out.
Speaker 10 (06:47):
This kind of sounderation of where we're going.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So this this is the dungeon.
Speaker 8 (06:51):
This is what it used to look like.
Speaker 10 (06:52):
The stuff people in here, No toilets.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Just walls.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, why you think I would want to see it
because you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Didn't know that it's just to see it, man, Marshaan.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Man, I got all they got to get you a
real dumb I don't need.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
No dose nine is worth gonna look at me.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You think about people in there shipping piss, understand can
get up. I'm just saying that ain't exciting to me.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh, but it's important to understand the past so we
don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
When we come back, we'll go into the San Quentin
yard where folks are getting a little bit of exercise
and taking a little time uh for themselves, including one
incarcerated individual, Reginald Thorpe, who is from Oakland, California, and
has been serving time for a murder conviction. He's been
incarcerated now some twenty six years. It's a conversation. I
(07:47):
never thought we'd have a raw and unfiltered way that
takes some twists in turns that make it a fascinating
look inside the prison at San Quentin.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Mm hmm, good, what's up man? Good to be back.
I told you I don't working. I'm not walking away
a lot of work.
Speaker 8 (08:15):
How you doing.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I'll be great. What's happening?
Speaker 8 (08:19):
We got a chase?
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Oh god, nobody break the lines happen?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I had what's up with the.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
East? Broke up?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Dealing honey selling honey.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Stand right now though? How Haggenberger is?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, they just was mom and they just hit the
gas station right there by the way.
Speaker 8 (08:44):
Where was that yesterday?
Speaker 9 (08:46):
At the Shell gas station in Hagenberger?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Bro, you was the Shell.
Speaker 8 (08:50):
I spend more time in opening than you do. My
You're just coming through there and doing a little pop
up camera. I wish I was the fourth time I've
been to that damn Shell.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
That's what we raised, going and raised. But don't trip
they You know why you can do that because they've
seen you with me, so they.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Like that. Though.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Bro, When I was a kid, I used to run
around in that area. I used to when they had
the castle and the Malibu over there.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It wasn't nowhere. When I'm old school, all that parking
lot and stuff, None.
Speaker 8 (09:22):
Of that was a lot. Man.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
I used to break into the coliseum to feed myself
during the eighth corn Dogs Hot Dogs Ship.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And then they take all the teams out of town
and then expect people to go to work.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
We still got we got the we know you know,
we know how to we know how to put the
mix on.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
Everything's ship.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, those stuff mag it is.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Yeah, what's your name name?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Broch know yeah, yeah, respect Berger.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
What you was doing. We've done a lot on politics.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's not even politics.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
I'm not even kidding by the way.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We've literally I'm after reading it's the most dangerous you
don't know this, Doug, the most dangerous gas station in
the United States of America.
Speaker 8 (10:08):
I did read this.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It's a shell station.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's the last station before you go in and return
your rental car. And they were they, I mean, fifteen
to twenty robberies a day. And when I read about
this kid who had a backpack on and they dragged
the kid with the backpack on, this eight year old kid,
and pulled them out to rip the backpack on, that's when.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, we sat the whole courtdor I mean the Hilton.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
The Hilton's gone now the Oakland Hilton we lost.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
How did he get like that? Though?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
That's a go back years though that didn't just happen
over night. That's the system, the way that things was
designed over here, Like it's not enough money in Oakland
no more. They done all the people the way that
they get the property tax over there, they getting that
money and they not reinvestigated that pushed me out.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
They not They not doing that no more.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
I remember when I when I was a kid, I
used to be able to go to the recreation center.
I didn't even have to worry about getting in trouble
or being in the streets. But now there's not no
resources there no more. They taking the money and they
holding on to it instead of putting it back in there.
It's like they want to put more money in the
law enforcement and lacking people up.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Rather than trying to find solutions to the problems. That's
really at the root of that stuff.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
There's a lot of people out there home being storm
and then it's nothing for them to do.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Well, we'll try that minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right now, it's gotten so bad that we do have
to We got to put a lid on how bad
it's gotten. But when none of us have forgotten the
original centers, that relates for lack of investment, and so
that's happening in parallel at unprecedented levels as well. To
reinvest back in the community.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
One thing I know about openly as a child, openly
took care of me when my parents was using drugs
and stuff. When I went out in the streets, openly
took care of me. That's why I'm still right here
today because the city of Openly itself took care of
me despite all the bad stuff that was happening in
New York City. Openly took care of me when my.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Parents couldn't take care of me. Really, and we got
a spirit out there.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
That's why Steph and Draymond and Clay when they went
to San Francisco, they didn't They wasn't feeling that because
they didn't have no say in that.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
They wanted to stay in the town. There's like that.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
Ain't my that ain't my choice. But they wanted they
loved the town. They wanted to stay out there. We
got a culture out here. We got a culture in
that spirity. Opening Acorna never died. No matter what they do,
no matter how many people they locked up, how many
police they put on the streets.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Always that's what it is. That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Look because you just explained some ship to him, like
will chopping it up. We kicked game because we politic
for our little uh for our podcast and hell of Ship,
I stopped politics.
Speaker 8 (12:44):
But I'm saying, but.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
What you just did that you just you feel me
the ism that you just gave, like that's the politi
and the feeling though away from his politics, but you
being able to explain something like that, you feel me
that shit is big. You feel me because motherfucking don't
hear it on that type of level. And then when
you hear it coming straight directly from you rather than
(13:08):
you looking at some numbers, all we got it because
it don't come like that. It come all the budget
this and we gotta do this and all the smart
ass all that other ship.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
When you're hungry, that's.
Speaker 8 (13:21):
What I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
But when you able to break it down to him
like that and tell them straight up, because the way
that you know, they go see it on that other level,
that's that's all they looking at.
Speaker 8 (13:33):
Do these numbers matter?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So when you talk about they taking money out of
the community and shit, they looking at Okay, well last
time we put in X, Y and Z for this project,
and then they looking at the project, what did that
project do? How much money did that project uh bring
in for us like Okay, well that didn't do right,
So fuck, were gonna take the money that we was
getting for this and we're gonna move it over here.
(13:55):
Now they're just moving shit around just to figure out
and try to see what's gonna work, what's gonna stick.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
And one at the end of the day went.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
About that one youngster who life They say that not
talking about that stopped from going in that story robbing
that that convenience store on uh On Haggenburger are coming
up in near hell of deep.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
But that's how that's how you feel that they talk
about people going in there robbing and doing all this stuff.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Talk about that one you that didn't decide to go
on that mission and going a different direction.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
They don't talk about that that.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
One young that one youngster ended up turning into that
youngster like me. And like you said, you from the deep,
you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
From the north.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I lived on fifty fifth Field, so when I had
to go to school, I had to go all the
way through the east, all the way back to the
North and then to come back home.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
So I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
The hotels in the hotels and fifty five.
Speaker 8 (14:45):
I don't know, been in there getting active.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
A whole lot of time.
Speaker 8 (14:59):
And I'm not like not like this.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
He used to when I was when I was still
doing my stuff. He used to be running around on
the level four yard chase around.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
God Bro.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Like you know, I'm happy that we got a warding
like this, that know where people like myself came from.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Like he was on the line when I was on
the line actively doing hell of ship Bro.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
He seen me grow up in CSB sacked and for
him to see me then up and up now to
who I am.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
It speaks value we both put all taken.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
Look what the you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
But what's what's so interesting about this conversation and mirrors?
But literally we were having exactly this conversation last week.
I mean, I know, you give me ship for going
back for the fourth time to this that the place
without any cameras, each time, without any camera to make
the point, I'm going to keep coming back over and
over and over again, and I've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Look, not the mayor of Oakland.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
There's fourn in seventy six cities in California, but it's
out of control.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There, and so we stepped up. We stepped up the
last six nine months.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But I will say it, but it's been out of control.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
But it takes out of control in the eighties, start
bringing cocaine.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
In this, I get it.
Speaker 8 (16:19):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You can't I know, I can't make up for all
the macro, all the history. But I know I understand.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
But what things really started to spend in the last few.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Years in particular, and so we have significantly stepped up
our investments.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But the point you're making is a difficult point. Right
at the same time we should be I mean, I
get it, that sort of binary, this notion that okay,
he's just putting.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
More cops on the street. That's bullshit, locking people up.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's not going to solve the problem versus addressing all
those systemic issues.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
So for us, it's both, and it's both.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And but I got to do I've got to put
a lid on it because it's so bad now that
people people are leavish and droves, businesses, they're leaving, and
it's just gotten to a point where no.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
One is comfort.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, just we've got we've been saturating with the HP
and others supporting local law enforcement. They're wildly understaff. They're
not doing any pursuits, they're not making it. We're not
prosecuting even people that are being arrested. And you've got folks.
I mean, we had I had a member of my
staff listeners, a member of my staff with her daughter
and a gun was put to the kid's head in
(17:28):
the stroller to take the diapers. I mean, at what
point do I say, Okay, well, just that's the kind
of stuff like That's that's where you draw the line
and there's got to be some accountability. So it's it's again,
I don't dismiss anything you're saying, quite the contract. I'm
actually praising what you're saying. But at the same time,
I'm trying to express hopefully an understanding that we also
need to deal with the lawlessness at the moment and
(17:51):
put a lid on it, but without overcompensating going back
to the old days of overincarceration.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And that's why we're here, man, that's the whole point.
We used to do with housing authority, used to pull
and then come back. That's all.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
That's all the other to the Task Force Oakley Police
Department in Alameda County sheriffs or police. We will run
get away as soon as you as soon as you leave,
we come back out and do what he was doing.
So it's it's like, Okay, I'm understand that you're trying
to just put this band aid on there, but really
(18:27):
that they ain't need triage. That need it needs some
real like somebody. And then a lot of the carns
that's happening in that area ain't even people from open
that's none. With the stuff that I saw, the cars
that I'll be saying, I'm old school.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Some of the people that got the ship beat out.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
Of them, Bro, why did you bringing heat conversation?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah, bro, you're about to get after after everything, and man,
we got this, so he don't even worry too.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's we're also trying to address one hundred percent, right.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
But the US, the people that was enforcing that, they
locked up.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
They locked up right here.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Some year.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I hear the people that was enforcing that they've been
in prison for the last twenty twenty five years.
Speaker 8 (19:10):
Well that's I mean, that's good.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That brings us long winnedly to the actual why we're here,
which is part of this rehabilitation we're doing here the
new calib arder model, trying to scale this stuff. You'll
see it physically when that wall comes down. And the
work we're doing, and I don't know if you know,
the work I've been doing for decades now on reforming
the damn system and investing in those alternative pathways.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
So we address the sub process.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Who from that who who from the system?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's that you're working with in order for it be
another lapse, because it's like every time it's like, yeah,
we're trying to go and you know, rework the system
and change, But do y'all bring people that then come
from that ship who actually like no.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Change?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
This is where this is why we continue to keep
running into that same when we get.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Here, what's what's this warden doing here?
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Appoints the wardens. We're gonna figure it out. Don't find
these guys.
Speaker 10 (20:07):
Their ideas come like we build us together, right, it's
a community. So when we get that input, we take
their ideas and invest so when they see something done,
we work together. That's one thing Stas in the population,
we got more similarities and differences.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
We all we all work here together.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So then how can y'all get that together and a
place like this, But then out in the free world
is running regular.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
There's more structure in places like this. I get it
than it is actually yet you feel me though at
the house.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And then it just come to a point where when
from my my understanding, my respect, when I see somebody
come out, uh, come home from doing like fifteen or something,
when they get back into the you know what I mean,
the new world, they out of touch with everything.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
You feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
And now because the individuals who've been outside, these little
young motherfuckers, they on.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
Some other ship.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So when somebody come home and they trying to enforce
what was you know, I mean, how we even establish
this foundation for our neighborhood or what's going on. Ain't
nobody trying to hear that shit anyway. So it's always
a disconnect. But at the end of the day, the
same system in which we still have and that is
still rocking right now, is the same one that we
just continue to just go around and circles with.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Now, the thing that we ain't talking about is everybody
know that this shit is a big business.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So I mean, why the fuck if I'm getting billions,
why the fuck would I want to go change the
system that's gonna continue to keep feeding my pockets.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
Now you get individuals who.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Got a respectful mind and a decent heart, like yourself,
and you come in here and you're like, damn, I
want to change, and then it's gonna come to a
point where you're gonna be like, well, fuck, I donet
hit my ceiling with these individuals.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
They not letting me get no, because if we do that,
it's gonna create real change.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But that real change is gonna hurt somebody, real change
when it comes to the higher repts and where all
his money is going and how all this shit is
funneled around though, because we all had look, we all
like he say something to it, like you know what,
motherfuckers always talk about what they're doing, how they need
to do this, and how they need to do that,
and it's like, motherfucker, I would love to see them.
Speaker 8 (22:18):
You give them this position and let's see what they'll do.
Thank you. But it's not that shit hard though. But man.
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Gatherings been in the position since he was the mere
San Francisco, and I don't know what he was doing
before that. He was already gathering his support network like
he he gathering, right.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
But he have people that support him there, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Be able to where he could rely on them to
take care of shit that he can't see or do
because he got other things.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
And by him having that support network, it allows him
to elevate and elevate for like twenty twenty eight. Right,
he's still.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Dealing with what we got going on in California, like
on a higher level. That's gonna that's gonna paying itself out.
Hopefully we don't get some body that that's a dictator.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
And but he gonna for me in the mix.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You run the mayor of Oakland's bitching about what I'm doing.
Speaker 8 (23:10):
You should be.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Running for what he said, and and and fab is
your vice mayor.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Man, don't go turn this Ben, tell me in the
office you talking about you coming to Oakland four.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Time just in the last look your last guy awake,
Look time on you man go down.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
To city hall telling hey, look, hey, you see I
got my big ass bag outside.
Speaker 8 (23:41):
Tell you I got that we're finla take my big
ass bag and get the bags.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
And I'm sad about Oakland though, bro, Like I'm really
like every time I watched the news.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
My heart to just go out to my city. Bro
Open took care of me as a child. I went
to MacArthur.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
I went to all down near every elementary school in
East Oakley because my parents when they was using drugs,
they drug and.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
So all through Oakland. So I went to all the schools.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Well, look at history of Black Panthers, Bill Russell, Yeah,
I mean, Ricky Henderson, everybody, I mean every I mean
it was unbelievable terms the history of Oakland.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yeah, that's why Draymond played, and and Steph wanted to
stay right.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
They then when they started they little legacy with the
Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That energy that we had and developed into town, that
was with him. That's what got we just talked to Draymond.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Draymond said that when he came to Oakland, he fell
home because reminded him of Detroit.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
He was he was one decision away from not being
in your like me. Yep, he was one choice away.
I just I made the wrong choice.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Draymond made the right choice and he went and played
college from Mischigan State.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Would you play?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I didn't play anything. I was in the streets. I
didn't even I was trying to find me something.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
What would you would you play?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I probably I wouldn't have paid no sports. Okay, Now
I'm more.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
I was.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Since I've been incarcer ready to rehabilitation. I found that
I got a serious passion for mathematics.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
I love math.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I love numbers because numbers don't lie how long you've
been in your work.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I didn't even at this institute for five years?
Speaker 5 (25:16):
What about overall?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Twenty six years?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Twenty se okay, and when you're getting out, I.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Don't have no idea, no idea.
Speaker 8 (25:21):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
I should have been going in March, but they said
because some confidential information that was putting my seafoul, the
board determined that I didn't follow the parole boards of recommendations,
and they told me, I gotta wait until twenty twenty.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Is it heard to battle through daily not knowing there's
no end date?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And is your family this your family?
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Here? Is your family?
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Come visit The reason why it's not hard because it's
consequences for choices. And I made a decision to take
somebody life, And in California, the consequence for taking somebody
life and getting found guilty of murder is spending the
rest of your life in prison, So I'm not I
regret what I did, and I understand that it's a
possibility I could die in here because I took somebody's life,
(26:03):
so I.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Deal with that in a way according to the law.
But however, I am optimistic. I believe that I made
the change and the transformation to go back and be
a productive member mean us what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
And I appreciate you getting involved in mathematics and doing that, man,
because being in there, no no and day, but you
doing what you're doing.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
It's big.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
A lot of these young people that don't have no
education that's trying to.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Get they GEDs, and even the ones that's in college,
they struggle with math.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
The math, it seemed like it's the most difficult subject.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
And through my rehabilitation, I found that I was passionate
about doing math when I was young men and.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I said, you know what, REGI, I said, what did
you like.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
To do before you start committing crimes, before you start
being bad? I realized I like doing math, and I
was like, you know what, I'm about to hone back
in on that, and I started going to college.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I've made it all the way to calculus.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Too, there's been some times where I've been at the
only African American that institutions.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That was taking uh oculus.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And actually, so that's just one of the are you
mentioned some of these young kids the same plan.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Math whenever they need help, I'm available, okay, and people
tell them like, hey man, he pretty good with math.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
If you need some help. I'm hoping to help anybody
with man. I love math.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's good, but it's taking advantage of the programming.
Speaker 8 (27:22):
And I'll tell you what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Just in back to Marshawn joining me a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Uh, as the guy who ultimately decides whatever the pro
board does doesn't matter unless the governor signs off on it.
All that programming, you have no idea how determined of
that is and how critical that is. And you stack
that stuff up because there's so many folks that are wabblers.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I'll send back they call us en banc or we'll
just reject if you.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Don't see that programming in there, and you get medium
to high risk. Uh you know, I mean those are
the folks that are being sent back. So what you're
doing is profoundly consequential in terms of stacking Uh. That
kind of court for yourself long term, and then you
just got to get through that first.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Hurdle with the name do come across the board. You
feel me, you got you got a resume.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Did. I needed to do some healing up here, like
I was really hurt. Like I went through a lot
of trauma growing up and opened myself. I went through
right and in order for me to change and transform, Bro,
I had to heal myself.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And through these self help groups and having the support networking.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Here, Bro, they help you heal, because if you don't
heal yourself, BRO, you ain't gonna be No, you can't
help nobody.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
You can't help nobody.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But it's crazy that you even say that, because the
last time we just chopped it up with a ship
talk about Draymond. We just chopped it up with him,
and Doug was talking about when he went UH and
tried what's that ship called.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
Therapy therapy.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
He went through therapy for the first time, and like
you feel me, he it was shit going on that
he didn't even know, you know, that was happening with him,
And a lot of it is that trauma that you
you you you gather while you were UH, while you
are youngster though, so by even you saying that, because
we were just talking about it on the way over
here about the uh about like you know, when people
come in to prison, coming to jail, you know what
(29:11):
I mean, supposed to be an opportunity for you to
you know what I mean, uh, rehability, rehabilitate yourself.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
Right. But I'm like, man, at the end of the day,
what the fuck y'all? Like, what really be going on?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Like how much help do motherfuckers really get? Like if
it is like some shit that is needed, how do
you get that? You feel me, how do you get
that in here? For when if motherfucker do get a
date or be able to go ahead to stack the
support that you talking about in order for when you
go to the parole board, motherfucker look at that and
it's you ain't just looking at a sheet of Oh well,
(29:43):
this motherfucker was in here for murder, Aron Robberds all
the shit.
Speaker 8 (29:46):
But this is what the and this is the steps
that this individual.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Took in order to rehabilitate itself in order to get
up out of here. Yeah, but it just look I
don't know, to me, it just seemed like a hunup,
like like I'll tell you, you know, i'd come in here,
visit my pops and ship like you know when you
talk about all right, we're gonna go in here, like nah,
I kind of don't, like, you know, I understand I'm
trying not to go into jail and you trying to
(30:11):
go in the motherfucker just sit down and chop it
up like fuck. But I get it, and I mean,
you know, it's it's really good, you know what I mean,
especially for myself to see this, but then you know
what I mean for you, you know, we come around
and see what's going on.
Speaker 8 (30:30):
And ship like.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
It's some good ship that you feel me though, that
you possibly can do. I just hope that you take
the information that you know that they're given and you
know what I mean, come up with something better. I'm
talking about overall, like not just here, but whole system.
Speaker 8 (30:47):
And you, the motherfucking president, why you just changed it right?
The ship up.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I wish we could just snap our fingers war, but no, no,
but the whole idea of San Quentin's become the model
rehabilitation president in the United States of America, and then
we spread it throughout the rest of the system. So
everything that happens behind that wall will determine that.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
No, bullshit, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Wow. Literally, it's almost verbato the ship you were saying
about Opha.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
It's so interesting to think about it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
He hasn't been outside, but he feels it nonetheless. But
I'm saying it's the same shit. Yeah, yeah, See I
was going in the eighties. He was running around in
the eighties. But the fact that the same shit was
going deep, that's what I'm saying. God, that system shit. No,
I got to get that system and whatever it was
(31:44):
designed to do. The keepers fucking shitty and locked up
in places like this, They designed a hell of a system.
Because think about it for twenty years, it's still the
same shit.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I want to get into that conversation because I can
give you chapter and verse on that deeper. You do
not understand how spot on you are about that. I met,
I bet I would give you some.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
Prequel, and I don't think it's crazy. One system though,
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