April 19, 2022 • 33 mins
Tina Knowles-Lawson sits down with Gam to share how age has never stopped her from having successful careers throughout her life. She talks about everything from costume designing for Destiny’s Child to running lines with Blue for her new acting role. And find out she met her husband Richard Lawson.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively Gamed.
As you all know, I retired from nursing five years
ago to join Jada and Willow as a co host
of Red Table Talk. Actually, each time that I have
retired from nursing, it's been because of Jada. So thank
you Jada. So many of my friends have also changed
(00:32):
careers or continue to have successful careers later in life,
and today's guest is no exception, as she continues to
partake in a variety of projects and there seems to
be no end in sight for her. I am so
excited to have Tina Knows Loss and join me on
today's episodes. So let's go. Tina Knows Lawson is a
(00:56):
fashion designer, entrepreneur, philand entropist, talk show host, author, mother, grandmother,
and actress. Hey, Tina, welcome to Positively gam I'm so
excited to have you on. So excited. Well, I'm excited
to be here. You know, I follow all of your
your Instagram and see all your thanks going on, and
(01:20):
you remind me of me. Okay, so it's good to
be here. Awesome. We all know you are the mother
of two beautiful and talented daughters, Beyonce and Salange. But
this show is about you. I want to talk about you.
I read that you were a makeup artist at nineteen
(01:41):
years old and later opened up your own hair salon
in Houston, all before designing the costumes for your daughter's group,
Destiny's Child. So already that's like three somewhat related careers
early on, before you even move into the realm of entertainment.
And you know, like for me, a lot of people
(02:01):
grow up with this goal from their parents to just
go to school, graduate from high school, and get a job.
Graduate from college and get a job. And there's no
right or wrong about that, no judgment, but a job
is not a career. And it seems like, just like
right out the gate, you had this entrepreneurial spirit. Where
(02:24):
did that come from? I think my entrepreneurial came from
my parents. My mother. Actually, my mother was a seamstress.
She was a stay at home mom. I mean, I thought, oh,
my mom didn't work, But as I got older, I
realized that she really worked, as she worked hard and
that was a career even though she took in sewing
(02:47):
and so she was a great designer and she made
these beautiful beated jackets for women in Galveston and evening
gowns and that type of thing. She was a beater
so and a seamstress. So I got it from her
figuring out how to make a Yeah, and so did
she teach you how to sell? Because I know my
mother taught us how to soul when I used to
(03:09):
make a lot of my own clothes too. I never
designed them, I used patterns, but we did. So we
made a lot of our own clothes because you picked
out the fabrics and put your own touch right. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah,
she taught us all how to sew. My nephew was
my best friend, Johnny, and she taught he and I
how to sew when we were like maybe ten years old.
(03:32):
And I was in a singing group when I was
in high school. And uh, my mother and I made
all the costume. Look we dressed better than we sugg.
That's funny. Oh so you can sing as well? Wow,
I'm learning so much already. Not Okay, I was a
pretty good singer when I was younger. Okay, okay, So
(03:52):
let me ask you what inspired you to try new
things throughout your life? Oh? Wow, I've been the decorator
interior decorator, anything that's creative. I I love it. I
thrived because and it all comes from my mom. You know,
my mom just could so she could a post, the furniture,
(04:13):
she could decorate, she she could just do anything. She
could cook. So she taught me all of these things.
She had me at forty four, so I was kind
of like her friend. Okay, we hung out a lot
and I learned everything. I attribute everything I know how
to do to her. So is that something that you
think that you wanted to show your girls as well too,
(04:36):
because they have participated in some things outside of just
their music careers. They could all open a hair salon today,
and including Kelly. Kelly came to live with us when
she was ten, and they grew up in my salon
sweeping up hair. And they can cut hair. They can
do I mean they're doing hair. They can design things
(04:59):
they don't sew, but you know they can. They know
how to do a mean dart or something to make
their close to make some adjustments. So what we're kind
of focusing on in this conversation is successful careers later
in life. And I want to know if you ever
felt like your age got in the way of anything
that you were trying to achieve. No, I really haven't.
(05:24):
I mean, if anything, the older I got, the more
confident I got in my ability to be able to
do many things. So I think I got more confidence
later on in life. And you know, I have a
bucket list like everybody else, and I've checked off most
of the things on my bucket list. Wow, good for you.
(05:45):
That is not my strong suit. I have to say
it's not my strong suit. I've always been someone who
was just I had very low self esteem and very insecure.
I didn't do anything that my sister didn't do. If
my sister wasn't going. My sister is two years older
(06:05):
than me. I'm I'm the baby. I had two sisters
and a brother, and the sister closest to me, if
she wasn't going, if she wasn't doing it, then I
wasn't doing it either. So yeah, I understand that with sisters,
you know, because you have somebody older to protect you
and you feel protected. But for me, there's a big gap.
It's like a five year gap between six year gap
(06:28):
between me and my next siblings. So I was kind
of like an only child and I had to do
it for myself. So I had to get the courage to,
you know, do things for myself. Not that I wasn't
scared half the time, but you know, I'm if I
have a challenge, I really kind of psyched myself out
to rise to the okase, Yeah, you don't let your
(06:49):
fear hold you back. Yeah, And that's something that I
haven't quite conquered yet. I mean I've taken on some challenges, yes,
like even me coming to Red Table. But it was
also a circumstance that I, you know, Jada was there.
I knew that she was gonna protect me. I knew
that she was my comfort, you know what I mean,
(07:12):
she was my comfort. If I had that opportunity without
that padding it, trust me, it would not have happened.
I don't think I would have done it very good
at it. You're a natural because you're you're you know,
I love it because you guys are not trying to
present something or or say things through a filter. You
(07:35):
just it really seems very genuine and you and we're
not giving advice, that's the other things. We're just trying
to have conversation, just trying to have conversation. So, do
you have any advice for people who are older and
want to still have a successful career, or who might
want to make a career change. I think just to
(07:56):
get out there. I mean, there have been things that I, oh, Dad,
of course, but I just move on to whatever else,
the next challenges, because you know, you don't have to
be succeed in everything you do. But I think if
you don't try, then you'll never know. And I exactly
I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, I have some
friends that are scared to try because they're like, yeah, hold,
(08:20):
and I'm too, And I'm like, I don't ever think
like that. You know. I just go with it. And
sometimes I might look a little silly doing it or
might fail at it, but it's okay because then you know,
it's just too many things that life is just too short. Right.
(08:40):
I'm a Chicago stepper and I love that dance and
I know, as I've been trying to learn on that
it's one of the things that holds me back when
I'm trying to dance is that I don't have confidence
in my dance and my ability to follow the lead
that the gentleman is giving me. That's a the same
(09:02):
thing people tell me all the time. And one of
the things that they say, they tell me, the instructors
will tell you is don't worry about making a mistake.
It's just a dance. Don't worry about making a mistake,
and you're gonna be all right. Yeah, you're great. Like
you know, my husband tells me all the time. He's like, Tina,
(09:23):
can you just let me leave? And I don't know.
I'm trying really hard, but I think it's maybe it's
trust issues or whatever. But I'm always I'm not a
good follower, okay, you know. Yeah, so that's what stops
me because I'll be doing good and then I mess
up because you know, I get in my head about it. Yeah,
(09:44):
you start doing your own thing, all right. I want
to move on to this book that you published. You're
an author and you published this book. I haven't right
here Destiny Style, I do. I have it. Bootylicious Fashion,
(10:05):
Beauty and Lifestyle Secrets from Destiny's Child. I have it, Yes,
I do. And it's really funny, it really is. It's
such a beautiful display of all your designs through their career.
Was that something that you always wanted to do to
publish a book? Being a fashion designer. Why I always
(10:28):
wanted to be a fashion designer. Someone just came to
me and they kind of I won't say pressure, but
they kept on me about it, and I said, oh,
it might be fun to do. But it's so funny
because that book is probably what fifteen years old, and
recently someone gave me one because I didn't even have
a copy of it, and I looked to like, Lord,
(10:50):
have mercy thinking on some of these office It's really funny.
And my kids, you know, my kids look at that
book and they're like, oh, Mama, we hope nobody sees
that because you know, it's from fifteen years ago. The hairstyles,
the you know, it just shows you how much growth
that we've had over of course, of course, but I
mean this is part of their history. This is what
(11:12):
you can see, the change that that occurred. You know,
it's a it's a lot of growth. And and you
know it's funny because I did a little cooking section
and honey, listen, don't try it. I have it. I'm
gonna get to that. I'm gonna get to that. But
wait a minute. Before before we get to that, I'm
gonna ask you about out of all the costumes and
(11:32):
outfits that you've designed. Which one was your favorite. Do
you have a design or a gown that that stands
out in your mind that you're most proud of. Yeah,
I think probably um the first Grammy gown when Beyonce
was nominated for like I think she got five Grammys
that year. I wanted her to look like a Grammy statue.
(11:55):
So I did this gold I had custom uh piece
made and it's really one of the most beautiful things.
I just saw it recently. Somebody put it on Instagram
and I was like, this dress is so pretty. It's
one of them. And then for Destiny's Child, I did
these carsets. I did some custom black leather carsonites and
leather pants and skirtings and for them for I think
(12:20):
that might have been for Grandmas too. I still love
that outfit today, even though it's probably what nineteen years old. Yeah, so, yeah,
it's timeless. Yeah, I saw you you reposted that that
gown that you're describing on Instagram recently, right, Yeah, I
saw that it was beautiful because probably you know, sixteen
(12:42):
years ago and I look at some of the stuff.
There's an Oscar dress that that somebody just recently posted
that was really beautiful, and I was like, you know,
I did do some great things because you know, when
the girls came along, I wanted them to be like
the Motown you remember the Motown day. Yes, on the
Supremes they look like exactly, but sometimes that went wrong.
(13:06):
Why don't have the money to really you know, put
the money into it, and so a lot of it
I made it myself or we I had this guy
to make it, and you know, we couldn't afford to
really get stuff custom done and all of that, and
it was always a shortage of time, like I might
need some office in three days. So some of them
look a little crazy, but that's yeah. And it's it's
(13:29):
interesting that you bring up Motown too, because back in
the days with Motown, they if you look at the
history of Motown, the way they set up that company
was amazing. They had a department that spent time grooming
their artists, teaching them how to present themselves to the public.
(13:51):
So I feel like you guys did that with Destiny's Child.
I feel like you guys did that with the girls
because they presented themselves so well, so gracefully and respectfully.
How they carried themselves in public. Was that important to you?
My ex husband used to play videos of motown stars
(14:14):
all the time, say to the girls, you see how
polite they are, Like you see eye contact, you see
how they you know, they know how to get out
of someone if someone asked them an inappropriate question, how
they can gracefully get out of it and not strike back?
You know, for me, like really, yes, so we you know,
(14:38):
we really taught them how to maneuver through that. We
taught them etiquette classes you know I had. So it's true,
and thank you for noticing that. Absolutely, that's important when
it comes to yourself. How much input do you have
(15:01):
in your own styling? Do you style yourself or do
you have a stylist, Like when you go to public
events and award shows, you style yourself all the time
because you know, I'm a stylist right, um, And it's
just easier and it's way cheaper. I'd like that, I would.
I would have to agree. I tend to style myself
(15:24):
as well. You know, you know, people like the stuff
that I wear, they like my shoes, they like you know,
how I present myself on Red table Talk. But yeah,
I saw myself as a stands right now, I don't
have a stylist. Now, what type of voice do you
feel like you were recreating for women in the fashion
industry as you were designing the clothes for Destiny's Child?
(15:48):
Because the fashion industry is heavily dominated by men. I'm
always find that so interesting, even when it comes to
shoes and fashion, it's just like it's the people that
don't have to wear it exactly, and that's why the
shoes hurt. Shoes hurt. But yeah, for me, especially at
(16:09):
the time that that they came along, it was, like
I said seventeen eighteen years ago, it was really hard
for me because for one thing, I'm not, you know,
formally trained. It's something that I knew how to do,
and I did it out of necessity. I never meant
to style them. I was throwing their hair because and
(16:33):
and their makeup and that type of thing. I packed
up the clothes. I was the packer, the agent. You know,
you do what you know that, you do what you
have to do to make sure that you know your
kids are taken care of. But I was doing the
hair and we were in Jamaica and we couldn't afford
to have a stylars travel with us because it was great.
(16:53):
The label would give us small budgets so they would
send the clothes. I was steaming the clothes and put
them on the girls. They were all ways not sending
the clothes or the clothes got stuck at the airport.
So we were in Jamaica for MTV and the clothes
didn't come and I had passed my little side on
the road where they had all this camouflage stuff. So
(17:14):
I went back and bought those clothes, cut them up,
sold them up overnight. White Club John was there of
the Fujis and he said, Wow, who style y'alls? Beyonce said,
my mom. He said, you need to style them all
the time because they're unique and they don't look like
everybody else. The girls were like sixteen. I think b
was like sixteen and they were seventeen, and it was
(17:35):
like everything that came was black and super sexy and clean,
and I was like, they're fifteen sixteen. So I put
them in color and prints and things like that, and
that's how I got the style in them. But I
never aspired to be a stylist. It just kind of happened.
When you talk about insecurity, you know Beyonce, I used
(17:55):
to joke with me and she was like, mom, if
you got some locks in your hair and you talked
with an accent, they would love you. Because I was
this country woman from this this big hair and they
were just treating me so badly all the time, like
you know other stylists or people in the industry. They
just didn't have a lot of respect for me at
that time. But they're gonna copy my stuff though. Alright,
(18:26):
So congratulations. I would say for your Facebook watch show
Talks with MoMA Tina that came out last year, do
you have plans for a second season? I do? I um.
I have had some offers because that was a one
time uh sixth episode, and I actually did seven. I
(18:49):
did one with Kevin Hart as well, and I still
have that in a camp. But I just really, honestly
have been so focused on so many things that we'll
see what happens. Okay. I have to say that I
do love on your show how you started out feeding
your guests. I think that was a grand way to
(19:10):
make folks feel welcome and and comforted. And so I
have your book that has the gumbo recipe in there.
Everybody knows that I can't cook, but I'm gonna try
to make your gumbo, so I have to let you know, yes,
please let me go. You know, my folks are from Louisiana,
and I tell my kids all the time that we
(19:31):
used to go to Louisiana and the thing part of
that culture is that you surprise people. So we were
showing up at our cousin's house or relatives house at
one o'clock in the morning. They get up and start
frying chicken, and they were so hospitable and they've always
made you feel welcome, not that you were intruding. And
so it's my custom everybody that comes to my house,
(19:52):
I picked something for them, cook something for something, and
it makes them feel, like you said, very safe and warm,
you know. Yeah, so that's where that love for cooking
came from your Louisiana roots. Yeah, got you, got you.
(20:15):
So now we're gonna move on to this new career
that you have just established. Yes, as an actress, you
had just got through during the Lifetime thriller movie called Wrath,
a seven deadly sins story premiered on Lifetime, and you're
in it, and and Michelle Williams is in it, and
(20:38):
you play her mom. Tell us what the story is?
You know it's Bishop Jake's who I love. Yeah, he
produces the Seven Deadly Sins. Oh, he contacted me, and
you know who can say no to Bishop Jake's. But
I was really nervous because I have never acted before.
I was in a MTV movie many years of O
(21:00):
ironically with my now husband, like twenty years ago. But
you wait, you're kidding. No, you know, I've known Richard
for thirty three years. But I just my friend Latonia Jackson,
Sam Jackson's wife. She was in and she asked me
to do They asked me to do a part, a
(21:21):
little part, and play myself in this MTV movie and
just so happens Richard played her husband. How crazy, But
that was like me playing myself. So this was really
scary to me. But it was fun and actually was fun.
I liked it. So did Richard coach you? No, Blue
coach to me. Blue Ivy helped to coach you in
(21:47):
your life through my line and she was like, Grandma,
I don't know if this is right for you. I
don't know if you can do this. I was like,
forgiving me, that's company. Yeah, I mean, that's that's huge
to me. That's huge to me because you have to
memorize your lines and you know, you're in front of
(22:09):
all these cameras with it. I mean, people think that
acting is easy. It is not. It really is not.
It's doing stuff over and I'm like, we gotta do
this again, you know. I talked to my husband, Richard,
and I said they did that. I was like, that's
enough for that, and he was like, they are never
asking you back again. It's like you do that. I
(22:32):
was like, we're gonna have to do this again because
they do it far away then close up and I'm like, right,
do you see that as something that you would like
to try again? Do you see yourself really diving into
acting now? No? I love producing. That's not like is
the producing part of it. I would love to produce.
And if I made like a you know, a small
(22:54):
appearance in and maybe that that's it was fun. Yeah,
And you know it's easy because Michelle is like my daughter. Yeah, exactly,
just easy. I just pretended that we were in one
of our conversations and yeah, so much more comfortable when
you're dealing with someone that you're so close to Okay,
so I wanna jumpkie switch gears a little bit and
(23:16):
talk about you and Richard, because, like me, you found
love again at an older age. So how did you
first meet Richard? Everybody knows that you're married to the
handsome and wonderful Richard Lawson. Yeah. I met Richard forty
years ago. I was pregnant with Beyonce, actually, and I
(23:37):
met his sister over the phone. Believe it or not,
my ex husband was at a Xerox party and I
started talking to this girl. He said, I know she's
related to you because her family's last name is Broussard
and my family's name is Russart, and we're from this little,
tiny area and they were from the same area. So
we started talking and we were like, you know, we
(24:00):
our families definitely were related, but it was very distant,
so let's not get rumors started. Yeah, let's not be careful.
But but anyway, we became the best of friends, and
I met Richard with her, and he was just always
the nicest guy, because you know, he was on. I
think I believe that he was on. He had done
Poltergeist and some of these movies, and I thought he
(24:21):
was so handsome and um on that him, and I
thought he was gonna be like the movie star. You know,
when you're from Texas, you think everybody, if they've been
on TV, they like a millionaire and they a movie star.
But he was helping somebody moved. The first day I
met him, he was helping Larry Hilton Jacob's move, and
I was like, God, movie stars helped people move with
(24:42):
they rent trucks and they do this stuff. And he
was just so nice and down the earth, and we
are we're all friends. My ex husband, all of us
were friends. He was married, I was married, and then
through the years we saw each other and his sister
unfortunately died at forty and from breast cancer, and of
course we were together during that time, and we stayed
(25:05):
in touch when he would come to Houston. I keep
his daughter, and so our families always intertwined. And who
would have ever thought that we wind up together, But
we actually connected The week that my ex husband was
getting married, and I was sold like sad, not about
because I wanted him back, but just because I was
(25:26):
sad because he was married and I was still not
even really dating. And so my friend called him to
take us out and then we you know, we just
became friends and then that developed into you know, us
having a close relationship. I think we always had a
lot of admiration and things in common. But of course
we were married. So that's faith, that's God. Well, how
(25:51):
did you meet your husband? Did you know? One time?
I did? I did. Rannie and I dated many years ago. Yes,
uh huh, we dated many years ago. He drove me
to take Jada to college. Why yeah, but we yeah,
we dated for about probably about four years back then.
(26:14):
But I yeah, And I don't know how much of
my story, you know, but I was I am a
recovering addict, and I was still suffering and struggling with
my addiction at the time, and so the relationship didn't work,
and so that that relationship ended and I ended up
getting clean. But I also had another marriage in between
(26:38):
before I'm married. Because I've been married four times, Tina,
I've been married four times. So Rodney is my fourth
and last husband. It looks like one. And then and
then that was great. I mean, that's the best. I
think at this point in our lives, we know who
(26:59):
we don't want, you know what we do want, and
I think you know, Richard and I say that all time.
We've been through enough because he's been a couple of times.
I've been married before. We know what we don't want
to have in our lives, and we try not to
make those safe mistakes against I think it's the best.
It is the best. And we also recognize how important
(27:20):
it is to have friendship in a marriage. But beyond
the love, the friendship that's right, Thank you. I say
that all the time. Do you like him right? Do
you like him as a person? Okay, so important, so important.
So before we wrap up, because you talked about having
(27:42):
a bucket list, what are some of the things on
your bucket list? I want to go and spend like
a month in Africa. That's I've been several times. And
when I go, I got a schedule of here, there
to there. I just want to go where I don't
have anything to do and I can do whatever I
want and go wherever I want. Pretty much everything else
(28:04):
that I had, I had a really long bucket list
I have. God has blessed me to be able to
do to travel and you know, I mean I always
wanted to produce a show. I got to do that,
and you know, I got to act in the show,
and yeah, the rest of it is just I think
that's about the only thing that I haven't ever had
in my life is just to be able to go
(28:25):
on a trip where I don't have a schedule and
I don't have anybody to answer to, and I could
do what I want to do. Now I have to
jump back a little bit and ask what did Richard
think about you jumping into the acting role? He jokes
all the time, you know she want to be an
actress and I don't. But he wasn't surprised. He just
(28:48):
was doing a project at the same time, because they
actually asked him to play my husband, but he couldn't
do it because he was doing another film and he
couldn't help me with my lines. And that's why I
got Blue to help me at the last minute. But
but he thought, I mean, he thinks that I should
do it. I should pursue it. And I said if
he maybe, if he helped me and coach to me,
(29:10):
I would feel more confident because I was pretty nervous. Yeah,
I can imagine he would. Sounds like he was supportive
even though he wasn't physically present. And Rodney has been
that for me. He he actually um pushes me and
encourages me to do more. So it's it feels good
to have your partner be so supportive of the things
(29:31):
that you're trying to do in your life. Absolutely. Yeah,
what are you currently working on right now? I am
doing a lot with developing some businesses. Okay, So that's
the thing that's been keeping me the most busy right now,
and I'm not at liberty to talk about what they are,
but it's exciting, it's fun. Okay. Then we'll keep our
(29:55):
eyes and ears open for whatever you have coming down
the pike. So now it's time for this segment that
I have. Wouldn't you like to know? So I have
(30:18):
a couple of rapid fire questions I'd like you to answer, Tina,
simple questions. All right, what book are you currently reading?
The Body Keeps the Score and it's about your mind, body,
and soul. And I'm trying to understand how trauma works
because people talk about trauma. I've had, everybody's had trauma,
(30:41):
and it is the best book because it tells you
how to connect the dots on you know, things that
you don't even know. We're trauma for you and that
your body keeps the score of that it's there, it
doesn't go away. Yeah, yeah, that sounds interesting. I'm gonna
have to check that out. What it's one thing you
would like to get off your chest? If you don't try,
(31:04):
you'll never know. So, you know, please, if you have
some dreams or aspirations, don't let fear, negativity or other
people telling you you can't do it stop you from
doing it. Go for it. What do you have to lose.
I need to hear that myself. Thank you. We're keeping
(31:24):
positive exactly. What's a model that you live by? Probably
the biggest one is that you gotta be cute on
the inside. You know. My mama drove that into my
head as a kid, and it used to get you.
You know, pretty is as pretty does, and you know
it was like I don't, But I have instilled in
it my kids in a different way, and they instilling
(31:45):
in their kids because you know, it's nice to be
cute on the outside, but what about your heart and
what about but what's going on in the inside? Absolutely,
because that other thing just finds a way to come
out some kind of Absolutely on the outside. Tell us
where people can find you on social media Tina. I
am on Instagram on Miss Tina Lawson, and it's the
(32:09):
same for Facebook. I just got on Facebook maybe a
year ago. Okay, thank you so much for taking the
time out joining us here on positively gab. It was
such such a pleasure to have you. I've been waiting
for you to come on, so thank you so much.
Thank you so much. To have a great day. Okay
you too, alright, alright, bye bye. That was such a
(32:32):
great conversation with Tina Knowles Lawson. I was so excited
to have her on. And my one takeaway don't let
fear hold you back. Today was a great episode. You
can submit your questions to positively gam at red table
talk dot com for a chance to hear me read
them on my next episode. And that's our show for
(32:54):
this week, a positively gam. You can follow me online
at gammy Narris and now on TikTok at Gammy Naris.
Also help us out by leaving a five star review
on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on
I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. Positively Gam is produced
(33:14):
by Red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive
producers are Adrian Vanfield Naris Valin Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith.
Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff, and our associate producer
is Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is produced by
d Bats
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively Gamed.
As you all know, I retired from nursing five years
ago to join Jada and Willow as a co host
of Red Table Talk. Actually, each time that I have
retired from nursing, it's been because of Jada. So thank
you Jada. So many of my friends have also changed
(00:32):
careers or continue to have successful careers later in life,
and today's guest is no exception, as she continues to
partake in a variety of projects and there seems to
be no end in sight for her. I am so
excited to have Tina Knows Loss and join me on
today's episodes. So let's go. Tina Knows Lawson is a
(00:56):
fashion designer, entrepreneur, philand entropist, talk show host, author, mother, grandmother,
and actress. Hey, Tina, welcome to Positively gam I'm so
excited to have you on. So excited. Well, I'm excited
to be here. You know, I follow all of your
your Instagram and see all your thanks going on, and
(01:20):
you remind me of me. Okay, so it's good to
be here. Awesome. We all know you are the mother
of two beautiful and talented daughters, Beyonce and Salange. But
this show is about you. I want to talk about you.
I read that you were a makeup artist at nineteen
(01:41):
years old and later opened up your own hair salon
in Houston, all before designing the costumes for your daughter's group,
Destiny's Child. So already that's like three somewhat related careers
early on, before you even move into the realm of entertainment.
And you know, like for me, a lot of people
(02:01):
grow up with this goal from their parents to just
go to school, graduate from high school, and get a job.
Graduate from college and get a job. And there's no
right or wrong about that, no judgment, but a job
is not a career. And it seems like, just like
right out the gate, you had this entrepreneurial spirit. Where
(02:24):
did that come from? I think my entrepreneurial came from
my parents. My mother. Actually, my mother was a seamstress.
She was a stay at home mom. I mean, I thought, oh,
my mom didn't work, But as I got older, I
realized that she really worked, as she worked hard and
that was a career even though she took in sewing
(02:47):
and so she was a great designer and she made
these beautiful beated jackets for women in Galveston and evening
gowns and that type of thing. She was a beater
so and a seamstress. So I got it from her
figuring out how to make a Yeah, and so did
she teach you how to sell? Because I know my
mother taught us how to soul when I used to
(03:09):
make a lot of my own clothes too. I never
designed them, I used patterns, but we did. So we
made a lot of our own clothes because you picked
out the fabrics and put your own touch right. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah,
she taught us all how to sew. My nephew was
my best friend, Johnny, and she taught he and I
how to sew when we were like maybe ten years old.
(03:32):
And I was in a singing group when I was
in high school. And uh, my mother and I made
all the costume. Look we dressed better than we sugg.
That's funny. Oh so you can sing as well? Wow,
I'm learning so much already. Not Okay, I was a
pretty good singer when I was younger. Okay, okay, So
(03:52):
let me ask you what inspired you to try new
things throughout your life? Oh? Wow, I've been the decorator
interior decorator, anything that's creative. I I love it. I
thrived because and it all comes from my mom. You know,
my mom just could so she could a post, the furniture,
(04:13):
she could decorate, she she could just do anything. She
could cook. So she taught me all of these things.
She had me at forty four, so I was kind
of like her friend. Okay, we hung out a lot
and I learned everything. I attribute everything I know how
to do to her. So is that something that you
think that you wanted to show your girls as well too,
(04:36):
because they have participated in some things outside of just
their music careers. They could all open a hair salon today,
and including Kelly. Kelly came to live with us when
she was ten, and they grew up in my salon
sweeping up hair. And they can cut hair. They can
do I mean they're doing hair. They can design things
(04:59):
they don't sew, but you know they can. They know
how to do a mean dart or something to make
their close to make some adjustments. So what we're kind
of focusing on in this conversation is successful careers later
in life. And I want to know if you ever
felt like your age got in the way of anything
that you were trying to achieve. No, I really haven't.
(05:24):
I mean, if anything, the older I got, the more
confident I got in my ability to be able to
do many things. So I think I got more confidence
later on in life. And you know, I have a
bucket list like everybody else, and I've checked off most
of the things on my bucket list. Wow, good for you.
(05:45):
That is not my strong suit. I have to say
it's not my strong suit. I've always been someone who
was just I had very low self esteem and very insecure.
I didn't do anything that my sister didn't do. If
my sister wasn't going. My sister is two years older
(06:05):
than me. I'm I'm the baby. I had two sisters
and a brother, and the sister closest to me, if
she wasn't going, if she wasn't doing it, then I
wasn't doing it either. So yeah, I understand that with sisters,
you know, because you have somebody older to protect you
and you feel protected. But for me, there's a big gap.
It's like a five year gap between six year gap
(06:28):
between me and my next siblings. So I was kind
of like an only child and I had to do
it for myself. So I had to get the courage to,
you know, do things for myself. Not that I wasn't
scared half the time, but you know, I'm if I
have a challenge, I really kind of psyched myself out
to rise to the okase, Yeah, you don't let your
(06:49):
fear hold you back. Yeah, And that's something that I
haven't quite conquered yet. I mean I've taken on some challenges, yes,
like even me coming to Red Table. But it was
also a circumstance that I, you know, Jada was there.
I knew that she was gonna protect me. I knew
that she was my comfort, you know what I mean,
(07:12):
she was my comfort. If I had that opportunity without
that padding it, trust me, it would not have happened.
I don't think I would have done it very good
at it. You're a natural because you're you're you know,
I love it because you guys are not trying to
present something or or say things through a filter. You
(07:35):
just it really seems very genuine and you and we're
not giving advice, that's the other things. We're just trying
to have conversation, just trying to have conversation. So, do
you have any advice for people who are older and
want to still have a successful career, or who might
want to make a career change. I think just to
(07:56):
get out there. I mean, there have been things that I, oh, Dad,
of course, but I just move on to whatever else,
the next challenges, because you know, you don't have to
be succeed in everything you do. But I think if
you don't try, then you'll never know. And I exactly
I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, I have some
friends that are scared to try because they're like, yeah, hold,
(08:20):
and I'm too, And I'm like, I don't ever think
like that. You know. I just go with it. And
sometimes I might look a little silly doing it or
might fail at it, but it's okay because then you know,
it's just too many things that life is just too short. Right.
(08:40):
I'm a Chicago stepper and I love that dance and
I know, as I've been trying to learn on that
it's one of the things that holds me back when
I'm trying to dance is that I don't have confidence
in my dance and my ability to follow the lead
that the gentleman is giving me. That's a the same
(09:02):
thing people tell me all the time. And one of
the things that they say, they tell me, the instructors
will tell you is don't worry about making a mistake.
It's just a dance. Don't worry about making a mistake,
and you're gonna be all right. Yeah, you're great. Like
you know, my husband tells me all the time. He's like, Tina,
(09:23):
can you just let me leave? And I don't know.
I'm trying really hard, but I think it's maybe it's
trust issues or whatever. But I'm always I'm not a
good follower, okay, you know. Yeah, so that's what stops
me because I'll be doing good and then I mess
up because you know, I get in my head about it. Yeah,
(09:44):
you start doing your own thing, all right. I want
to move on to this book that you published. You're
an author and you published this book. I haven't right
here Destiny Style, I do. I have it. Bootylicious Fashion,
(10:05):
Beauty and Lifestyle Secrets from Destiny's Child. I have it, Yes,
I do. And it's really funny, it really is. It's
such a beautiful display of all your designs through their career.
Was that something that you always wanted to do to
publish a book? Being a fashion designer. Why I always
(10:28):
wanted to be a fashion designer. Someone just came to
me and they kind of I won't say pressure, but
they kept on me about it, and I said, oh,
it might be fun to do. But it's so funny
because that book is probably what fifteen years old, and
recently someone gave me one because I didn't even have
a copy of it, and I looked to like, Lord,
(10:50):
have mercy thinking on some of these office It's really funny.
And my kids, you know, my kids look at that
book and they're like, oh, Mama, we hope nobody sees
that because you know, it's from fifteen years ago. The hairstyles,
the you know, it just shows you how much growth
that we've had over of course, of course, but I
mean this is part of their history. This is what
(11:12):
you can see, the change that that occurred. You know,
it's a it's a lot of growth. And and you
know it's funny because I did a little cooking section
and honey, listen, don't try it. I have it. I'm
gonna get to that. I'm gonna get to that. But
wait a minute. Before before we get to that, I'm
gonna ask you about out of all the costumes and
(11:32):
outfits that you've designed. Which one was your favorite. Do
you have a design or a gown that that stands
out in your mind that you're most proud of. Yeah,
I think probably um the first Grammy gown when Beyonce
was nominated for like I think she got five Grammys
that year. I wanted her to look like a Grammy statue.
(11:55):
So I did this gold I had custom uh piece
made and it's really one of the most beautiful things.
I just saw it recently. Somebody put it on Instagram
and I was like, this dress is so pretty. It's
one of them. And then for Destiny's Child, I did
these carsets. I did some custom black leather carsonites and
leather pants and skirtings and for them for I think
(12:20):
that might have been for Grandmas too. I still love
that outfit today, even though it's probably what nineteen years old. Yeah, so, yeah,
it's timeless. Yeah, I saw you you reposted that that
gown that you're describing on Instagram recently, right, Yeah, I
saw that it was beautiful because probably you know, sixteen
(12:42):
years ago and I look at some of the stuff.
There's an Oscar dress that that somebody just recently posted
that was really beautiful, and I was like, you know,
I did do some great things because you know, when
the girls came along, I wanted them to be like
the Motown you remember the Motown day. Yes, on the
Supremes they look like exactly, but sometimes that went wrong.
(13:06):
Why don't have the money to really you know, put
the money into it, and so a lot of it
I made it myself or we I had this guy
to make it, and you know, we couldn't afford to
really get stuff custom done and all of that, and
it was always a shortage of time, like I might
need some office in three days. So some of them
look a little crazy, but that's yeah. And it's it's
(13:29):
interesting that you bring up Motown too, because back in
the days with Motown, they if you look at the
history of Motown, the way they set up that company
was amazing. They had a department that spent time grooming
their artists, teaching them how to present themselves to the public.
(13:51):
So I feel like you guys did that with Destiny's Child.
I feel like you guys did that with the girls
because they presented themselves so well, so gracefully and respectfully.
How they carried themselves in public. Was that important to you?
My ex husband used to play videos of motown stars
(14:14):
all the time, say to the girls, you see how
polite they are, Like you see eye contact, you see
how they you know, they know how to get out
of someone if someone asked them an inappropriate question, how
they can gracefully get out of it and not strike back?
You know, for me, like really, yes, so we you know,
(14:38):
we really taught them how to maneuver through that. We
taught them etiquette classes you know I had. So it's true,
and thank you for noticing that. Absolutely, that's important when
it comes to yourself. How much input do you have
(15:01):
in your own styling? Do you style yourself or do
you have a stylist, Like when you go to public
events and award shows, you style yourself all the time
because you know, I'm a stylist right, um, And it's
just easier and it's way cheaper. I'd like that, I would.
I would have to agree. I tend to style myself
(15:24):
as well. You know, you know, people like the stuff
that I wear, they like my shoes, they like you know,
how I present myself on Red table Talk. But yeah,
I saw myself as a stands right now, I don't
have a stylist. Now, what type of voice do you
feel like you were recreating for women in the fashion
industry as you were designing the clothes for Destiny's Child?
(15:48):
Because the fashion industry is heavily dominated by men. I'm
always find that so interesting, even when it comes to
shoes and fashion, it's just like it's the people that
don't have to wear it exactly, and that's why the
shoes hurt. Shoes hurt. But yeah, for me, especially at
(16:09):
the time that that they came along, it was, like
I said seventeen eighteen years ago, it was really hard
for me because for one thing, I'm not, you know,
formally trained. It's something that I knew how to do,
and I did it out of necessity. I never meant
to style them. I was throwing their hair because and
(16:33):
and their makeup and that type of thing. I packed
up the clothes. I was the packer, the agent. You know,
you do what you know that, you do what you
have to do to make sure that you know your
kids are taken care of. But I was doing the
hair and we were in Jamaica and we couldn't afford
to have a stylars travel with us because it was great.
(16:53):
The label would give us small budgets so they would
send the clothes. I was steaming the clothes and put
them on the girls. They were all ways not sending
the clothes or the clothes got stuck at the airport.
So we were in Jamaica for MTV and the clothes
didn't come and I had passed my little side on
the road where they had all this camouflage stuff. So
(17:14):
I went back and bought those clothes, cut them up,
sold them up overnight. White Club John was there of
the Fujis and he said, Wow, who style y'alls? Beyonce said,
my mom. He said, you need to style them all
the time because they're unique and they don't look like
everybody else. The girls were like sixteen. I think b
was like sixteen and they were seventeen, and it was
(17:35):
like everything that came was black and super sexy and clean,
and I was like, they're fifteen sixteen. So I put
them in color and prints and things like that, and
that's how I got the style in them. But I
never aspired to be a stylist. It just kind of happened.
When you talk about insecurity, you know Beyonce, I used
(17:55):
to joke with me and she was like, mom, if
you got some locks in your hair and you talked
with an accent, they would love you. Because I was
this country woman from this this big hair and they
were just treating me so badly all the time, like
you know other stylists or people in the industry. They
just didn't have a lot of respect for me at
that time. But they're gonna copy my stuff though. Alright,
(18:26):
So congratulations. I would say for your Facebook watch show
Talks with MoMA Tina that came out last year, do
you have plans for a second season? I do? I um.
I have had some offers because that was a one
time uh sixth episode, and I actually did seven. I
(18:49):
did one with Kevin Hart as well, and I still
have that in a camp. But I just really, honestly
have been so focused on so many things that we'll
see what happens. Okay. I have to say that I
do love on your show how you started out feeding
your guests. I think that was a grand way to
(19:10):
make folks feel welcome and and comforted. And so I
have your book that has the gumbo recipe in there.
Everybody knows that I can't cook, but I'm gonna try
to make your gumbo, so I have to let you know, yes,
please let me go. You know, my folks are from Louisiana,
and I tell my kids all the time that we
(19:31):
used to go to Louisiana and the thing part of
that culture is that you surprise people. So we were
showing up at our cousin's house or relatives house at
one o'clock in the morning. They get up and start
frying chicken, and they were so hospitable and they've always
made you feel welcome, not that you were intruding. And
so it's my custom everybody that comes to my house,
(19:52):
I picked something for them, cook something for something, and
it makes them feel, like you said, very safe and warm,
you know. Yeah, so that's where that love for cooking
came from your Louisiana roots. Yeah, got you, got you.
(20:15):
So now we're gonna move on to this new career
that you have just established. Yes, as an actress, you
had just got through during the Lifetime thriller movie called Wrath,
a seven deadly sins story premiered on Lifetime, and you're
in it, and and Michelle Williams is in it, and
(20:38):
you play her mom. Tell us what the story is?
You know it's Bishop Jake's who I love. Yeah, he
produces the Seven Deadly Sins. Oh, he contacted me, and
you know who can say no to Bishop Jake's. But
I was really nervous because I have never acted before.
I was in a MTV movie many years of O
(21:00):
ironically with my now husband, like twenty years ago. But
you wait, you're kidding. No, you know, I've known Richard
for thirty three years. But I just my friend Latonia Jackson,
Sam Jackson's wife. She was in and she asked me
to do They asked me to do a part, a
(21:21):
little part, and play myself in this MTV movie and
just so happens Richard played her husband. How crazy, But
that was like me playing myself. So this was really
scary to me. But it was fun and actually was fun.
I liked it. So did Richard coach you? No, Blue
coach to me. Blue Ivy helped to coach you in
(21:47):
your life through my line and she was like, Grandma,
I don't know if this is right for you. I
don't know if you can do this. I was like,
forgiving me, that's company. Yeah, I mean, that's that's huge
to me. That's huge to me because you have to
memorize your lines and you know, you're in front of
(22:09):
all these cameras with it. I mean, people think that
acting is easy. It is not. It really is not.
It's doing stuff over and I'm like, we gotta do
this again, you know. I talked to my husband, Richard,
and I said they did that. I was like, that's
enough for that, and he was like, they are never
asking you back again. It's like you do that. I
(22:32):
was like, we're gonna have to do this again because
they do it far away then close up and I'm like, right,
do you see that as something that you would like
to try again? Do you see yourself really diving into
acting now? No? I love producing. That's not like is
the producing part of it. I would love to produce.
And if I made like a you know, a small
(22:54):
appearance in and maybe that that's it was fun. Yeah,
And you know it's easy because Michelle is like my daughter. Yeah, exactly,
just easy. I just pretended that we were in one
of our conversations and yeah, so much more comfortable when
you're dealing with someone that you're so close to Okay,
so I wanna jumpkie switch gears a little bit and
(23:16):
talk about you and Richard, because, like me, you found
love again at an older age. So how did you
first meet Richard? Everybody knows that you're married to the
handsome and wonderful Richard Lawson. Yeah. I met Richard forty
years ago. I was pregnant with Beyonce, actually, and I
(23:37):
met his sister over the phone. Believe it or not,
my ex husband was at a Xerox party and I
started talking to this girl. He said, I know she's
related to you because her family's last name is Broussard
and my family's name is Russart, and we're from this little,
tiny area and they were from the same area. So
we started talking and we were like, you know, we
(24:00):
our families definitely were related, but it was very distant,
so let's not get rumors started. Yeah, let's not be careful.
But but anyway, we became the best of friends, and
I met Richard with her, and he was just always
the nicest guy, because you know, he was on. I
think I believe that he was on. He had done
Poltergeist and some of these movies, and I thought he
(24:21):
was so handsome and um on that him, and I
thought he was gonna be like the movie star. You know,
when you're from Texas, you think everybody, if they've been
on TV, they like a millionaire and they a movie star.
But he was helping somebody moved. The first day I
met him, he was helping Larry Hilton Jacob's move, and
I was like, God, movie stars helped people move with
(24:42):
they rent trucks and they do this stuff. And he
was just so nice and down the earth, and we
are we're all friends. My ex husband, all of us
were friends. He was married, I was married, and then
through the years we saw each other and his sister
unfortunately died at forty and from breast cancer, and of
course we were together during that time, and we stayed
(25:05):
in touch when he would come to Houston. I keep
his daughter, and so our families always intertwined. And who
would have ever thought that we wind up together, But
we actually connected The week that my ex husband was
getting married, and I was sold like sad, not about
because I wanted him back, but just because I was
(25:26):
sad because he was married and I was still not
even really dating. And so my friend called him to
take us out and then we you know, we just
became friends and then that developed into you know, us
having a close relationship. I think we always had a
lot of admiration and things in common. But of course
we were married. So that's faith, that's God. Well, how
(25:51):
did you meet your husband? Did you know? One time?
I did? I did. Rannie and I dated many years ago. Yes,
uh huh, we dated many years ago. He drove me
to take Jada to college. Why yeah, but we yeah,
we dated for about probably about four years back then.
(26:14):
But I yeah, And I don't know how much of
my story, you know, but I was I am a
recovering addict, and I was still suffering and struggling with
my addiction at the time, and so the relationship didn't work,
and so that that relationship ended and I ended up
getting clean. But I also had another marriage in between
(26:38):
before I'm married. Because I've been married four times, Tina,
I've been married four times. So Rodney is my fourth
and last husband. It looks like one. And then and
then that was great. I mean, that's the best. I
think at this point in our lives, we know who
(26:59):
we don't want, you know what we do want, and
I think you know, Richard and I say that all time.
We've been through enough because he's been a couple of times.
I've been married before. We know what we don't want
to have in our lives, and we try not to
make those safe mistakes against I think it's the best.
It is the best. And we also recognize how important
(27:20):
it is to have friendship in a marriage. But beyond
the love, the friendship that's right, Thank you. I say
that all the time. Do you like him right? Do
you like him as a person? Okay, so important, so important.
So before we wrap up, because you talked about having
(27:42):
a bucket list, what are some of the things on
your bucket list? I want to go and spend like
a month in Africa. That's I've been several times. And
when I go, I got a schedule of here, there
to there. I just want to go where I don't
have anything to do and I can do whatever I
want and go wherever I want. Pretty much everything else
(28:04):
that I had, I had a really long bucket list
I have. God has blessed me to be able to
do to travel and you know, I mean I always
wanted to produce a show. I got to do that,
and you know, I got to act in the show,
and yeah, the rest of it is just I think
that's about the only thing that I haven't ever had
in my life is just to be able to go
(28:25):
on a trip where I don't have a schedule and
I don't have anybody to answer to, and I could
do what I want to do. Now I have to
jump back a little bit and ask what did Richard
think about you jumping into the acting role? He jokes
all the time, you know she want to be an
actress and I don't. But he wasn't surprised. He just
(28:48):
was doing a project at the same time, because they
actually asked him to play my husband, but he couldn't
do it because he was doing another film and he
couldn't help me with my lines. And that's why I
got Blue to help me at the last minute. But
but he thought, I mean, he thinks that I should
do it. I should pursue it. And I said if
he maybe, if he helped me and coach to me,
(29:10):
I would feel more confident because I was pretty nervous. Yeah,
I can imagine he would. Sounds like he was supportive
even though he wasn't physically present. And Rodney has been
that for me. He he actually um pushes me and
encourages me to do more. So it's it feels good
to have your partner be so supportive of the things
(29:31):
that you're trying to do in your life. Absolutely. Yeah,
what are you currently working on right now? I am
doing a lot with developing some businesses. Okay, So that's
the thing that's been keeping me the most busy right now,
and I'm not at liberty to talk about what they are,
but it's exciting, it's fun. Okay. Then we'll keep our
(29:55):
eyes and ears open for whatever you have coming down
the pike. So now it's time for this segment that
I have. Wouldn't you like to know? So I have
(30:18):
a couple of rapid fire questions I'd like you to answer, Tina,
simple questions. All right, what book are you currently reading?
The Body Keeps the Score and it's about your mind, body,
and soul. And I'm trying to understand how trauma works
because people talk about trauma. I've had, everybody's had trauma,
(30:41):
and it is the best book because it tells you
how to connect the dots on you know, things that
you don't even know. We're trauma for you and that
your body keeps the score of that it's there, it
doesn't go away. Yeah, yeah, that sounds interesting. I'm gonna
have to check that out. What it's one thing you
would like to get off your chest? If you don't try,
(31:04):
you'll never know. So, you know, please, if you have
some dreams or aspirations, don't let fear, negativity or other
people telling you you can't do it stop you from
doing it. Go for it. What do you have to lose.
I need to hear that myself. Thank you. We're keeping
(31:24):
positive exactly. What's a model that you live by? Probably
the biggest one is that you gotta be cute on
the inside. You know. My mama drove that into my
head as a kid, and it used to get you.
You know, pretty is as pretty does, and you know
it was like I don't, But I have instilled in
it my kids in a different way, and they instilling
(31:45):
in their kids because you know, it's nice to be
cute on the outside, but what about your heart and
what about but what's going on in the inside? Absolutely,
because that other thing just finds a way to come
out some kind of Absolutely on the outside. Tell us
where people can find you on social media Tina. I
am on Instagram on Miss Tina Lawson, and it's the
(32:09):
same for Facebook. I just got on Facebook maybe a
year ago. Okay, thank you so much for taking the
time out joining us here on positively gab. It was
such such a pleasure to have you. I've been waiting
for you to come on, so thank you so much.
Thank you so much. To have a great day. Okay
you too, alright, alright, bye bye. That was such a
(32:32):
great conversation with Tina Knowles Lawson. I was so excited
to have her on. And my one takeaway don't let
fear hold you back. Today was a great episode. You
can submit your questions to positively gam at red table
talk dot com for a chance to hear me read
them on my next episode. And that's our show for
(32:54):
this week, a positively gam. You can follow me online
at gammy Narris and now on TikTok at Gammy Naris.
Also help us out by leaving a five star review
on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on
I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. Positively Gam is produced
(33:14):
by Red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive
producers are Adrian Vanfield Naris Valin Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith.
Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff, and our associate producer
is Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is produced by
d Bats
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