October 23, 2025 • 24 mins
Mischief at No Fixed Address went from pandemic startup to Adweek’s Agency of the Year in just five years. Its co-founder and Chief Creative Officer Greg Hahn joins Christian to share why creativity must surprise and feel inevitable at once, how indifference kills more brands than controversy, and what it takes to build an agency that’s fearless, human, and impossible to ignore.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities, the podcast where
we dive into the leadership frameworks, bold ideas, and personal
stories shaping the future of marketing, technology and leadership. He said,
in advertising, the most dangerous thing is making a mistake.
It's being ignored. That belief sits at the heart of
(00:26):
one of the most creative agencies in the world today,
Mischief at No Fixed Address, built on a radical philosophy.
We are here to make a stir. Indifference is the enemy,
Kindness is not weakness, and we are a safe place
for dangerous ideas. Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities,
the podcast where we explore bold ideas, leadership philosophies, and
(00:50):
personal stories reshaping marketing, technology and culture. In this episode,
I have the privilege of sitting down with someone I've
admired from a far but never spoken to until now,
which makes this conversation especially exciting because you will hear
our very first exchange, unfiltered and unscripted. My guest is
Greg Hahn, co founder and chief creative officer of Mischief.
(01:14):
In just five years, Mischief has gone from startup to
being named at AGES Global Agency of the Year, Fast
Company's world's most Innovative aid Agency and Adweeks Agency of
the Year. Greg has spent his career not just making ads,
but making statements. From Bbdo to Mischief, He's proven that
creativity is most powerful when it's fearless, deeply human, and
(01:39):
impossible to ignore. So let's dive into this very first
conversation and explore how Greg sees the future of creativity,
what it takes to build an agency that refuses to
be put in a box, and why the boldest leaders
today are the ones unafraid to meaw in a world
that expects them to bark. Greg, a very warm welcome
(02:01):
and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you for having me. That was like one of
the nicest introductions I've had, so thank you for that.
And also you've set us up for like everybody listening
to our first date. So this should be really fun,
if not awkward.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
But that's why I'm so excited. And as I said,
that's the first time we meet and speak, which is
great and you know, because I get to discover your
thinking live right with our audience listening to it. So
before we get into your journey, let me start by
flipping that philosophy. I've mentioned back to you. What is
one thing about Greg Hound that would completely surprise people
who only know you as the feelings, creative mind behind mischief.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Maybe you're more conservative than people would think on the inside.
I don't know. It's hard for me. I'm like the
last person to answer this question because I don't really
know what other people think of me. You know, I'm
the least aware of that kind of thing. But yeah,
I think if it's anything, it's probably I personally am
a little bit more conservative. And it's like my partners
(02:59):
at Offen and push me on the business side of like,
let's go for this, let's do this, I mean creativity
and all that other kind of stuff. It's not like that,
But in my personal life I operate from a place
of like, you know, play it safe, but when it
comes to creativity and things like that, I go fall out.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Good good, All right, So let's talk about miss DNA
and philosophy and why you did what you did. So
on your homepage you reference Big Mama Thorne's recording of
Hound Dog. It's a great story and by the way,
I recommend people to go to your side anyway, because
it's a delight you right to see your website and
what you did there. But the point being made is
something like in a song about a dog, we meaw
(03:37):
so mischief miows. What does it mean? What does meawing
mean in today's culture?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, I mean it stems from that story and you
can read it on our website about one of the
backup singers in that song Houndog. The original recording of
Big Mom. Norton did a recording way back in Gusta
twenties and at the end of it you can hear
one of the musicians barking. You know, it's like a
kind of a novelty at the end. And when he
was asked about it, he said to the reporter, you know,
(04:04):
like I wanted to meow, but that was too hip
for them, and I thought, to meow at the end
of a song called hound Dog is like brilliant and
edgy and has backstory. The bark is creative, but it's
not revolutionary, unexpected. If you're doing something creative, it's kind
of what you would do at the song hound Dog.
(04:24):
But what happens is like when people see something that's
just creative enough to be acceptable but still put a
smile on your face. They settle for that, whereas that mischief,
we want to go for the meaw, we want to
do the thing that just is unexpected. It has a
little bit of a story edge and stays with you
long after the music has left.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So it's all about creativity. When we talk about creativity
on our case and how can we bring it alive
at an event like possible Immed, do you think about, okay,
the creative work you know agencies normally, do you can
think about creativity today? Is also you know, everything which
happens in the creative to me, you know influences and creators,
et cetera. How would you define creativity in today's world
(05:05):
and therefore meowing instead of barking right to provide something
unexpected or the next level of creativity? How would you
define this?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I mean this thing I love about creativity and apply
to you know what we do is it's all about
solving problems. So to us we always say like it's
perfectly obvious, but only after we do it. So it
should be one of these things that both surprises you
and then seems completely inevitable at the same time. So
you know, when you see a solution from mistrip. It
should be like, where the fuck did they come up
with that? And of course you know, like it makes
(05:32):
so much sense after you see it. So it's this
combination of sort of inevitability and complete surprise. At the
same time, you also said that indifference is an enemy.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
What's harder greg getting people to love what you make
or getting them to hate it instead of ignoring this,
I mean ignoring is the biggest threat, right. You know,
you want attention in some way. Is today's world always
between just love it or hate it? Is there nothing
more in between?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think you could do something that most people just
find it entertaining and amusing. You know, in today's culture,
there's always going to be somebody that finds something wrong
with something, which is fine, like just to find your audience,
know who you're going for. But I think that to
us playing it safe and doing something that you know,
you spend a lot of money on and is fine,
like nobody cares much about it, but it didn't upset anybody,
(06:18):
but didn't engage anybody either, that to us is much
more risky. So we would like to do something and
again we always start with a strategy, so we don't
just do anything for the shock value and because we
think it will get a lot of attention. We do
it because it will get the right kind of attention
and leave you with the impression we wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
To leave you also said kindness is not weakness. Would
I love? How do you keep kindness alive in that
industry built on rustless pictures and budgets and awards. I mean,
I would say our industries not the kindest one in
the world. Yeah, you'd be surprised, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I did find, especially when I was laid off from
BBDO and kind of just the number of people that
reach out for me and the support we got, and
even when launching, the support we got. But I get it.
It's competitive, and you know, can get very cutthroat and
the pressure is off and high. But we try to
step outside of all that and just approach everything with
a bit of empathy and you know, trying to understand
(07:10):
what other people are going through before you react. And
I think that we've noticed that in an environment where
fear is removed from the air, you just produce a
lot more and you have a lot more fun and
the ideas are a lot more expansive.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What would your clients say, or the industry at launch,
what would they miss most if Mischief disappeared tomorrow. So
if you're no longer there with your agency, I mean,
then what must be a huge gap in the industry.
What would they say? What would they miss?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
They miss all these posts? No, all these are all
these are our head of development and very active and
very great on social you know. I think what we
try to stand for is a way to show that
the industry that you can have fun, create a place
that people like to work and do the best work
of your life. So I felt that was really missing
(08:01):
when I was looking for the next place, felt like
nobody was having fun and everyone was operating for this
place of fear. So what Mischief was set out to
do is operate from a place that always plays offense
and never defense and put things out in the world
that people enjoy and not try to do stuff that
feel safe.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So when you found it Mischief, let's talk about the
agency model, you know, which is well, we all know
about the big networks and the private agencies, and in
earlier days it was always called a media agency or
creative agency or full service agency. How do you see Mischief?
Is it still an agency or doesn't matter for you, right,
do you want to get rid of all these categories?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I mean, I don't know why people are so adverse
to the term ad agency. It is kind of what
we do, but we do do more than that. We're
a creative solutions company, right, and part of what we
do is advertising, and that's a big part of what
we do. But we also do like we like to
get involved in solving business problems. And sometimes that's an
ad sometimes just you know, the pricing, sometimes just where
(09:03):
you are in the aisles. It's just you know, finding
ways upstream to solve big business problems. And we also,
you know, have a studio, we have media, so it
all works together as a creative company that uses creativity
to solve business problems.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
And you offer the whole value chain, right, you offer
from media buying in US, media buying two production correct.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have media production and Mischief as
an entity.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And that's obviously the only way how you believe you
can provide this excellent service, right to do at the end,
everything if a kind one.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No, no, no, we work with other partners as well.
In fact, you know it's studio and media are recent
like for the first five years four and a half
years we operated without those, but we just opened those
up because we thought that those were areas that again,
we could have a bigger impact on the business if
we all worked tightly. But we still work with other
media companies and other pr and you know, partner with
(09:57):
other agencies as far as like in terms and you know,
in house and things like that.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Let's talk about a term you know which is heavily
used recently. It's authenticity or being authentic. I hear this
quite often, Like you know in our world, in the
WENT world, you know, everybody wants to provide experiences. That's
another term you know, which is heavily used. And because
it's so heavily used, I feel sometimes it loses its power.
So being authentic, what does it mean for you? And
(10:23):
what's your BS detector test? When a client claims they
are ready for authenticity?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I mean, I guess it's it's personal. But for me,
authenticity you can just feel it. There's a vibration that
happens when you're being in authentic, and there's a different
one that happens when you're being authentic. So a lot
of what we do is feeling you know, for humans.
So you know, we will never try to go into
a relationship where we just feel like the client's not authentic,
because if you don't have the truth, then you've got
(10:51):
nothing to build off of. Sooner or later you will
be found out. It'll ring hollow whatever you're doing. So
I think authenticity is a word that gets overplayed, but
it's also really important.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I agree. I agree. Is there a perfect or an
ideal advertiser who comes to you, you know? Is it
somebody who is completely open and has no idea and
leave everything with yours? Is it a client, you know
who comes with a clear brief? What do you prefer?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think we'd like to First of all, we don't
judge by category or by brand or anything like that.
Whether we take on a client, it's always about the
people sitting across the table, So it comes to that,
and I think we work both ways. I feel if
the client's open to us coming in from scratching just
saying here's a playing piece of paper, we don't know
where to begin, we'll do that, and I think that's great.
(11:37):
We also like to have clients that know what they
want and you know, we're here to help shape that.
I think the important thing is that collaboration, Like if
we open to us working with them either way. What
we don't like is like we have this creative idea
we want you guys to help execute. That's just not
our game. Hey.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
One interesting thing definitely something we have in common, right,
which you may not know. It's you founded Mischief obviously
during the pandemic at the beginning of the pandemic in
twenty twenty, while I did it in twenty one, which
was if I remember right, more at the end of
the pandemic, at least in the US. I remember to
be in New York. You know that my funding for
the company and then founded this at the end of
(12:15):
twenty one. I founded my previous business back in two
thousand and eight during the finance crisis. So why I'm
saying this is I like that because it feels for
me that doing this at a time where others hesitate
that doing things like that, you're on the winning side.
You know, when you survive, you're definitely at the forefront
of what you do. Do you think that timing for
you was genius or was it insanity or was it both?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
In hindsight, it was genius, and I think we kind
of felt at the time because what I was noticing
was that people were just open to whatever is next.
It was such a dramatic shift in so many things
in our lives that we were in a period where
exploration and the invention were kind of necessary and also
there's a willingness to try stuff. So when we came on,
(13:00):
it was just kind of like, this is a time
we're not stuck on the past, but we can kind
of build the future and figure out what new ways
of working are and become a company that is not
burdened by that's the way we've always done it, you know,
Like there's a phrase we never used, and it's because
we hadn't done it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
When you founded this, you decided to go for the
CCO title or our chief creative officer and set up
CEO of president, which well, in some cases, you know,
founders take this title. What was the reason behind and
what was the erection from the team or from clients?
You know, it doesn't matter for them.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It doesn't matter. I think for me personally, I never
I never even entertained the idea. I know what I'm
good at, and i know what I'm not good at.
One thing I'm not good at is all the nuts
and bolts of running a business. I just can't think
that way. So you know, my goal is always to
find when you endeavor in anything, it's it's to find
people that are really good at the things you're not
(14:08):
in partner with them. And I found that and Carry
McKibben and Dave Lefond who's was my founding partner in
Sir d Rancour who's the other founding partner, and Carrie
is our president.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So as a leader of that company and for the
whole team and your clients, etc. It's quite often you
you do it in a positive way and you say
yes to a lot of things and guide like this,
what's the most important thing you say no to as
a leader and what does that discipline unlock?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Then one of our you know, many many creatives on
our website, and I think it's really important is this
idea that what we say yes to shapes us, in
what we say no to defines us. We say no
to a lot and what I mean by that is
that draws the hard lines. That's that's where you know
you're gonna, you know, stand for something or not or
what kind of person, kind of agency you want to be.
(14:55):
I think we say no to a lot of things
that we feel are going to change the agency in
a way we don't all lot with or it just
don't seem like it don't seem right for us. So
you know, we've backed out of a lot of you know,
we've said no to a lot of big money pitches
because we just don't feel it's right for us or
we're not seeing the same way with the client. And
I think that's a really important thing to do as
an agency, is to determine whether the client is right
(15:19):
for you, not just whether you're right for the client.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, when do you know this? And normally you know
after the first meeting, already after the foot.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sometimes yes, yeah, sometimes I think you know right away
if they're right for you. It might take a couple
of times to kind of figure out like maybe this
wouldn't be the best fit. And I think it's just
it's never contentious, it's it's more just as partners, we're
going to agree, like this would not be the best partnership.
But doesn't mean, you know, we can't have relationships some
(15:47):
other way, Like doesn't mean we're not friends or whatever.
But I think that just being open and honest with people.
I know a lot of agencies, and I know there's
a lot of pressure on holding companies just take whatever
comes in the door and worry about the rest later.
That's just not been our model.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It's like hiring the best people you know who would
fit perfectly well to your own philosophy and your company's philosophy.
What would be the question you would ask somebody who
wants to get on board at your agency? Is there
one question you always ask you to find out if
this is the right fit for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I don't think it's one question, but I think there's
traits we look for. One is you know, again, there's empathy,
there's curiosity and a great understanding of human behavior and people.
In our great department, we hire very strategic, creative thinkers.
In our strategy department, it's the opposite. We hire a
very creative strategists, you know, knowing that their core competency
(16:37):
is still going to be strategy or creative. But we
like people that don't just focus on their one thing,
that kind of can work with everybody and collaborations big.
And we have this thought that you know, that you
have to put your ego aside in every conversation. It's
not about who's right, it's about what's right. And we
try to just focus all conversations like let's make the
work better, not care about territory or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I like it very much, So we touch base a
bit on a creativity. Let's talk about this a bit more,
but also the future. When you say, you know, mischief
is a safe place for dangerous ideas, what do you
mean by that? And what's the most dangerous idea you've
ever killed? And do you regret it looking back? You know,
for the last five years, was there any situation you know,
where you believe that's not the right thing, it's too dangerous, maybe,
(17:22):
but then you regret it.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
M that's a tough question. I don't know. Like, if
we think it's right, we'll bring it. Like, I don't
know if there's anything even if we know that it's
gonna be a tough sell, it probably not can buy it.
At least it stretches the possibilities a bit. You know,
we have this philosophy that most of the good stuff
in dex is at the back in agencies, and it's
always the extra credit stuff, and our feeling is like
(17:47):
that should be the front of stuff, because that's where
the big problems are often solved, and it gets ignored
and unders played in most big agencies because they're afraid
to present that. So our feeling is like, let's do
what we think is right for the client and don't
worry about if it's gonna make for a bad meeting
or if they're going to get upset for showing us,
because if they do, then you know, it's not a
great relationship.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Looking forward a couple of years, do you see a
kind of general trend based on, of course, the heavy
tech involvement and influence in our world. Do you see
a trend fully kind of advertising and media business which
you would call, you know, it's the area of provocation
or anything similar like this. Do you see it? You know,
could you put it into a bucket like this or
do you think no? Everything is so dramatically changing every
(18:28):
day that you know there is exactly a big mistake
to look into this like this. You have to be
prepared for new things every morning you wake up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think it's both. I think you have to be
prepared for new things every morning wake up but you
also have a core center that doesn't change. And again
that's for us, that's doing work that people care about,
and that's based on human truth. As long as your
core values don't change. And then again, you know, those
are the things we talked about that are listening on
our website. Those will never change, but how we express them,
in how we interact with people in communication constantly change.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So if mischief we're no longer known as the agency
of the Year because you want a lot of these titles,
which is great, but instead it would be called the
Movement of a decade.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Oh I like that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Do exactly what would now, not having a goal, what
would you have done differently to earn that or what
else do you need to do to get to this point?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think we have to go way outside the world
of advertising and communication and like to something that affects
people's lives in a bigger way. I mean, I think
right now we're in such an interesting chaotic turmoil as
far as like just a mentality in the way we're
so divided in the way we can't trust anything and
(19:41):
we're so eager to take on the other side. If
we could do a movement where we kind of bring
people together. That would be good, trying to use our
skills in a way that benefits society as a whole
in the future as a whole, because I do think,
you know, the future of humanity is kind of reliant
on us getting along with each other, and it just
seems like the more we move on, the further along
(20:02):
we get divided.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I would call it a task, right, you know, that's
why not why not doing this and maybe this conversation
here today and when people listening to this and I.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Would love that that should be a movement we should
all focus on. I mean, we've got some of the
most brilliant minds in the world listening to your podcasts,
and I'm not just sucking up to you all, but
you are, and we are in charge of solving really interesting,
difficult problems. If we could somehow put our minds together
and create something that is bigger than all of us,
that would benefit society and just change the mentality, because
(20:33):
I believe if we got here through communications and social
media and mass media, I think we can get out
of it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree. So also, this statement is alves to be
heard on the main stage of every conference, So let's
make it happen. So for the future.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I like that movement. Let this is inspiring. We
should have something that's good. But if you wouldn't be
in the advertising world, where would your mischief show up? Instead?
Be in the politics?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Would it be in the comedy corner or would you
be to know where would you end up instead?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, if you're to ask a sixteen year old me,
I said I would be the next Eddie van Halen.
I was a big guitar frand but then, like later
and later, I soon realized like the world was perfectly
happy with that Eddie van Halen had already had it.
It didn't need it. I don't so I got out
of music, But I think now I've always had like
this fascination with comedy. I don't think I would ever perform,
That's just not me. But I would like to write
(21:28):
for like Saturday and Live or The Night Show or
something like that. Would I just think would be the
funnest job of the world.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
One final question, especially for the younger ones who are
listening and wants to be you know, or are already
in the creative kind of business. For the young creative listening,
right now and who feels pressure to play it safe.
Right Quite often you told, hey, make sure you save
and do the youth of stuff. What's one act of
mischief they can start with tomorrow. What's your advice for them?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, I posted this thought I saw that I think
is really great and I think it would apply to
anybody who's in marketing, whether it's for your brand or
for yourself. And it's be known before you are needed.
And I think the idea is that is like, you
have so many tools. This is towards like a young
creative trying to get it. You have so many tools
at your disposal right now to become famous. Treat yourself
as a brand right now, and become famous, be on
(22:17):
the radar on every creative director because they saw you
in their fee, because someone sent the thing you did.
You'll automatically break through. Because I think that somebody will
rely on traditional portfolios and you know, crative directors are
flooded with those and there's some great stuff, but it's
just really hard to break through that way. So treat
yourself as the marketing problem, the brand, and how do
(22:37):
you break through and create something that everybody wants to
pass on? And get your name out there.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Thank you, Thank you that what's a great advice. Thank
you so much. Hey Greg, I had a lot of fun.
You know that wasn't inspiring first conversation with you, and
thank you for that. And based on what you've said,
I can definitely say that miss story is it proved
that when you fight indifference, when you embrace authenticity and
create a safe place for dangerous ideas like you described,
(23:03):
you can truly reshap your industry. And that's what you do.
Thank you for bringing that fearless mindset to possible. Now,
thanks for being with us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh, thank you. This is a great conversation and let's
change the world absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And to everyone listening, as I said before, go to
mis Your's website. You know it's an exciting journey. Spend
some time on it and get to know mischiefs and
what they're doing, and keep pushing boundaries, keep asking both
questions and keep turning possibilities into reality. I see you soon.
Thanks for joining us, Thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again,
(23:35):
I'm your host, Christian Moher. If you have a question
or suggestion to me, reach out send me the m
on LinkedIn. If you're courious, to learn more about Possible,
sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to
join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit possibleevent
dot com. Possible Now is a co production of iHeartMedia
(23:55):
and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Marx and Yasmin Melendez.
Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special thanks to Colleen
Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our theme music is
composed by Anthony Ketticoli. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit
the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(24:16):
your favorite shows
Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities, the podcast where
we dive into the leadership frameworks, bold ideas, and personal
stories shaping the future of marketing, technology and leadership. He said,
in advertising, the most dangerous thing is making a mistake.
It's being ignored. That belief sits at the heart of
(00:26):
one of the most creative agencies in the world today,
Mischief at No Fixed Address, built on a radical philosophy.
We are here to make a stir. Indifference is the enemy,
Kindness is not weakness, and we are a safe place
for dangerous ideas. Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities,
the podcast where we explore bold ideas, leadership philosophies, and
(00:50):
personal stories reshaping marketing, technology and culture. In this episode,
I have the privilege of sitting down with someone I've
admired from a far but never spoken to until now,
which makes this conversation especially exciting because you will hear
our very first exchange, unfiltered and unscripted. My guest is
Greg Hahn, co founder and chief creative officer of Mischief.
(01:14):
In just five years, Mischief has gone from startup to
being named at AGES Global Agency of the Year, Fast
Company's world's most Innovative aid Agency and Adweeks Agency of
the Year. Greg has spent his career not just making ads,
but making statements. From Bbdo to Mischief, He's proven that
creativity is most powerful when it's fearless, deeply human, and
(01:39):
impossible to ignore. So let's dive into this very first
conversation and explore how Greg sees the future of creativity,
what it takes to build an agency that refuses to
be put in a box, and why the boldest leaders
today are the ones unafraid to meaw in a world
that expects them to bark. Greg, a very warm welcome
(02:01):
and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you for having me. That was like one of
the nicest introductions I've had, so thank you for that.
And also you've set us up for like everybody listening
to our first date. So this should be really fun,
if not awkward.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
But that's why I'm so excited. And as I said,
that's the first time we meet and speak, which is
great and you know, because I get to discover your
thinking live right with our audience listening to it. So
before we get into your journey, let me start by
flipping that philosophy. I've mentioned back to you. What is
one thing about Greg Hound that would completely surprise people
who only know you as the feelings, creative mind behind mischief.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Maybe you're more conservative than people would think on the inside.
I don't know. It's hard for me. I'm like the
last person to answer this question because I don't really
know what other people think of me. You know, I'm
the least aware of that kind of thing. But yeah,
I think if it's anything, it's probably I personally am
a little bit more conservative. And it's like my partners
(02:59):
at Offen and push me on the business side of like,
let's go for this, let's do this, I mean creativity
and all that other kind of stuff. It's not like that,
But in my personal life I operate from a place
of like, you know, play it safe, but when it
comes to creativity and things like that, I go fall out.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Good good, All right, So let's talk about miss DNA
and philosophy and why you did what you did. So
on your homepage you reference Big Mama Thorne's recording of
Hound Dog. It's a great story and by the way,
I recommend people to go to your side anyway, because
it's a delight you right to see your website and
what you did there. But the point being made is
something like in a song about a dog, we meaw
(03:37):
so mischief miows. What does it mean? What does meawing
mean in today's culture?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, I mean it stems from that story and you
can read it on our website about one of the
backup singers in that song Houndog. The original recording of
Big Mom. Norton did a recording way back in Gusta
twenties and at the end of it you can hear
one of the musicians barking. You know, it's like a
kind of a novelty at the end. And when he
was asked about it, he said to the reporter, you know,
(04:04):
like I wanted to meow, but that was too hip
for them, and I thought, to meow at the end
of a song called hound Dog is like brilliant and
edgy and has backstory. The bark is creative, but it's
not revolutionary, unexpected. If you're doing something creative, it's kind
of what you would do at the song hound Dog.
(04:24):
But what happens is like when people see something that's
just creative enough to be acceptable but still put a
smile on your face. They settle for that, whereas that mischief,
we want to go for the meaw, we want to
do the thing that just is unexpected. It has a
little bit of a story edge and stays with you
long after the music has left.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So it's all about creativity. When we talk about creativity
on our case and how can we bring it alive
at an event like possible Immed, do you think about, okay,
the creative work you know agencies normally, do you can
think about creativity today? Is also you know, everything which
happens in the creative to me, you know influences and creators,
et cetera. How would you define creativity in today's world
(05:05):
and therefore meowing instead of barking right to provide something
unexpected or the next level of creativity? How would you
define this?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I mean this thing I love about creativity and apply
to you know what we do is it's all about
solving problems. So to us we always say like it's
perfectly obvious, but only after we do it. So it
should be one of these things that both surprises you
and then seems completely inevitable at the same time. So
you know, when you see a solution from mistrip. It
should be like, where the fuck did they come up
with that? And of course you know, like it makes
(05:32):
so much sense after you see it. So it's this
combination of sort of inevitability and complete surprise. At the
same time, you also said that indifference is an enemy.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
What's harder greg getting people to love what you make
or getting them to hate it instead of ignoring this,
I mean ignoring is the biggest threat, right. You know,
you want attention in some way. Is today's world always
between just love it or hate it? Is there nothing
more in between?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think you could do something that most people just
find it entertaining and amusing. You know, in today's culture,
there's always going to be somebody that finds something wrong
with something, which is fine, like just to find your audience,
know who you're going for. But I think that to
us playing it safe and doing something that you know,
you spend a lot of money on and is fine,
like nobody cares much about it, but it didn't upset anybody,
(06:18):
but didn't engage anybody either, that to us is much
more risky. So we would like to do something and
again we always start with a strategy, so we don't
just do anything for the shock value and because we
think it will get a lot of attention. We do
it because it will get the right kind of attention
and leave you with the impression we wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
To leave you also said kindness is not weakness. Would
I love? How do you keep kindness alive in that
industry built on rustless pictures and budgets and awards. I mean,
I would say our industries not the kindest one in
the world. Yeah, you'd be surprised, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I did find, especially when I was laid off from
BBDO and kind of just the number of people that
reach out for me and the support we got, and
even when launching, the support we got. But I get it.
It's competitive, and you know, can get very cutthroat and
the pressure is off and high. But we try to
step outside of all that and just approach everything with
a bit of empathy and you know, trying to understand
(07:10):
what other people are going through before you react. And
I think that we've noticed that in an environment where
fear is removed from the air, you just produce a
lot more and you have a lot more fun and
the ideas are a lot more expansive.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What would your clients say, or the industry at launch,
what would they miss most if Mischief disappeared tomorrow. So
if you're no longer there with your agency, I mean,
then what must be a huge gap in the industry.
What would they say? What would they miss?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
They miss all these posts? No, all these are all
these are our head of development and very active and
very great on social you know. I think what we
try to stand for is a way to show that
the industry that you can have fun, create a place
that people like to work and do the best work
of your life. So I felt that was really missing
(08:01):
when I was looking for the next place, felt like
nobody was having fun and everyone was operating for this
place of fear. So what Mischief was set out to
do is operate from a place that always plays offense
and never defense and put things out in the world
that people enjoy and not try to do stuff that
feel safe.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So when you found it Mischief, let's talk about the
agency model, you know, which is well, we all know
about the big networks and the private agencies, and in
earlier days it was always called a media agency or
creative agency or full service agency. How do you see Mischief?
Is it still an agency or doesn't matter for you, right,
do you want to get rid of all these categories?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I mean, I don't know why people are so adverse
to the term ad agency. It is kind of what
we do, but we do do more than that. We're
a creative solutions company, right, and part of what we
do is advertising, and that's a big part of what
we do. But we also do like we like to
get involved in solving business problems. And sometimes that's an
ad sometimes just you know, the pricing, sometimes just where
(09:03):
you are in the aisles. It's just you know, finding
ways upstream to solve big business problems. And we also,
you know, have a studio, we have media, so it
all works together as a creative company that uses creativity
to solve business problems.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
And you offer the whole value chain, right, you offer
from media buying in US, media buying two production correct.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have media production and Mischief as
an entity.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And that's obviously the only way how you believe you
can provide this excellent service, right to do at the end,
everything if a kind one.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No, no, no, we work with other partners as well.
In fact, you know it's studio and media are recent
like for the first five years four and a half
years we operated without those, but we just opened those
up because we thought that those were areas that again,
we could have a bigger impact on the business if
we all worked tightly. But we still work with other
media companies and other pr and you know, partner with
(09:57):
other agencies as far as like in terms and you know,
in house and things like that.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Let's talk about a term you know which is heavily
used recently. It's authenticity or being authentic. I hear this
quite often, Like you know in our world, in the
WENT world, you know, everybody wants to provide experiences. That's
another term you know, which is heavily used. And because
it's so heavily used, I feel sometimes it loses its power.
So being authentic, what does it mean for you? And
(10:23):
what's your BS detector test? When a client claims they
are ready for authenticity?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I mean, I guess it's it's personal. But for me,
authenticity you can just feel it. There's a vibration that
happens when you're being in authentic, and there's a different
one that happens when you're being authentic. So a lot
of what we do is feeling you know, for humans.
So you know, we will never try to go into
a relationship where we just feel like the client's not authentic,
because if you don't have the truth, then you've got
(10:51):
nothing to build off of. Sooner or later you will
be found out. It'll ring hollow whatever you're doing. So
I think authenticity is a word that gets overplayed, but
it's also really important.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I agree. I agree. Is there a perfect or an
ideal advertiser who comes to you, you know? Is it
somebody who is completely open and has no idea and
leave everything with yours? Is it a client, you know
who comes with a clear brief? What do you prefer?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think we'd like to First of all, we don't
judge by category or by brand or anything like that.
Whether we take on a client, it's always about the
people sitting across the table, So it comes to that,
and I think we work both ways. I feel if
the client's open to us coming in from scratching just
saying here's a playing piece of paper, we don't know
where to begin, we'll do that, and I think that's great.
(11:37):
We also like to have clients that know what they
want and you know, we're here to help shape that.
I think the important thing is that collaboration, Like if
we open to us working with them either way. What
we don't like is like we have this creative idea
we want you guys to help execute. That's just not
our game. Hey.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
One interesting thing definitely something we have in common, right,
which you may not know. It's you founded Mischief obviously
during the pandemic at the beginning of the pandemic in
twenty twenty, while I did it in twenty one, which
was if I remember right, more at the end of
the pandemic, at least in the US. I remember to
be in New York. You know that my funding for
the company and then founded this at the end of
(12:15):
twenty one. I founded my previous business back in two
thousand and eight during the finance crisis. So why I'm
saying this is I like that because it feels for
me that doing this at a time where others hesitate
that doing things like that, you're on the winning side.
You know, when you survive, you're definitely at the forefront
of what you do. Do you think that timing for
you was genius or was it insanity or was it both?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
In hindsight, it was genius, and I think we kind
of felt at the time because what I was noticing
was that people were just open to whatever is next.
It was such a dramatic shift in so many things
in our lives that we were in a period where
exploration and the invention were kind of necessary and also
there's a willingness to try stuff. So when we came on,
(13:00):
it was just kind of like, this is a time
we're not stuck on the past, but we can kind
of build the future and figure out what new ways
of working are and become a company that is not
burdened by that's the way we've always done it, you know,
Like there's a phrase we never used, and it's because
we hadn't done it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
When you founded this, you decided to go for the
CCO title or our chief creative officer and set up
CEO of president, which well, in some cases, you know,
founders take this title. What was the reason behind and
what was the erection from the team or from clients?
You know, it doesn't matter for them.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It doesn't matter. I think for me personally, I never
I never even entertained the idea. I know what I'm
good at, and i know what I'm not good at.
One thing I'm not good at is all the nuts
and bolts of running a business. I just can't think
that way. So you know, my goal is always to
find when you endeavor in anything, it's it's to find
people that are really good at the things you're not
(14:08):
in partner with them. And I found that and Carry
McKibben and Dave Lefond who's was my founding partner in
Sir d Rancour who's the other founding partner, and Carrie
is our president.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So as a leader of that company and for the
whole team and your clients, etc. It's quite often you
you do it in a positive way and you say
yes to a lot of things and guide like this,
what's the most important thing you say no to as
a leader and what does that discipline unlock?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Then one of our you know, many many creatives on
our website, and I think it's really important is this
idea that what we say yes to shapes us, in
what we say no to defines us. We say no
to a lot and what I mean by that is
that draws the hard lines. That's that's where you know
you're gonna, you know, stand for something or not or
what kind of person, kind of agency you want to be.
(14:55):
I think we say no to a lot of things
that we feel are going to change the agency in
a way we don't all lot with or it just
don't seem like it don't seem right for us. So
you know, we've backed out of a lot of you know,
we've said no to a lot of big money pitches
because we just don't feel it's right for us or
we're not seeing the same way with the client. And
I think that's a really important thing to do as
an agency, is to determine whether the client is right
(15:19):
for you, not just whether you're right for the client.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, when do you know this? And normally you know
after the first meeting, already after the foot.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sometimes yes, yeah, sometimes I think you know right away
if they're right for you. It might take a couple
of times to kind of figure out like maybe this
wouldn't be the best fit. And I think it's just
it's never contentious, it's it's more just as partners, we're
going to agree, like this would not be the best partnership.
But doesn't mean, you know, we can't have relationships some
(15:47):
other way, Like doesn't mean we're not friends or whatever.
But I think that just being open and honest with people.
I know a lot of agencies, and I know there's
a lot of pressure on holding companies just take whatever
comes in the door and worry about the rest later.
That's just not been our model.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It's like hiring the best people you know who would
fit perfectly well to your own philosophy and your company's philosophy.
What would be the question you would ask somebody who
wants to get on board at your agency? Is there
one question you always ask you to find out if
this is the right fit for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I don't think it's one question, but I think there's
traits we look for. One is you know, again, there's empathy,
there's curiosity and a great understanding of human behavior and people.
In our great department, we hire very strategic, creative thinkers.
In our strategy department, it's the opposite. We hire a
very creative strategists, you know, knowing that their core competency
(16:37):
is still going to be strategy or creative. But we
like people that don't just focus on their one thing,
that kind of can work with everybody and collaborations big.
And we have this thought that you know, that you
have to put your ego aside in every conversation. It's
not about who's right, it's about what's right. And we
try to just focus all conversations like let's make the
work better, not care about territory or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I like it very much, So we touch base a
bit on a creativity. Let's talk about this a bit more,
but also the future. When you say, you know, mischief
is a safe place for dangerous ideas, what do you
mean by that? And what's the most dangerous idea you've
ever killed? And do you regret it looking back? You know,
for the last five years, was there any situation you know,
where you believe that's not the right thing, it's too dangerous, maybe,
(17:22):
but then you regret it.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
M that's a tough question. I don't know. Like, if
we think it's right, we'll bring it. Like, I don't
know if there's anything even if we know that it's
gonna be a tough sell, it probably not can buy it.
At least it stretches the possibilities a bit. You know,
we have this philosophy that most of the good stuff
in dex is at the back in agencies, and it's
always the extra credit stuff, and our feeling is like
(17:47):
that should be the front of stuff, because that's where
the big problems are often solved, and it gets ignored
and unders played in most big agencies because they're afraid
to present that. So our feeling is like, let's do
what we think is right for the client and don't
worry about if it's gonna make for a bad meeting
or if they're going to get upset for showing us,
because if they do, then you know, it's not a
great relationship.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Looking forward a couple of years, do you see a
kind of general trend based on, of course, the heavy
tech involvement and influence in our world. Do you see
a trend fully kind of advertising and media business which
you would call, you know, it's the area of provocation
or anything similar like this. Do you see it? You know,
could you put it into a bucket like this or
do you think no? Everything is so dramatically changing every
(18:28):
day that you know there is exactly a big mistake
to look into this like this. You have to be
prepared for new things every morning you wake up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think it's both. I think you have to be
prepared for new things every morning wake up but you
also have a core center that doesn't change. And again
that's for us, that's doing work that people care about,
and that's based on human truth. As long as your
core values don't change. And then again, you know, those
are the things we talked about that are listening on
our website. Those will never change, but how we express them,
in how we interact with people in communication constantly change.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So if mischief we're no longer known as the agency
of the Year because you want a lot of these titles,
which is great, but instead it would be called the
Movement of a decade.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Oh I like that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Do exactly what would now, not having a goal, what
would you have done differently to earn that or what
else do you need to do to get to this point?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think we have to go way outside the world
of advertising and communication and like to something that affects
people's lives in a bigger way. I mean, I think
right now we're in such an interesting chaotic turmoil as
far as like just a mentality in the way we're
so divided in the way we can't trust anything and
(19:41):
we're so eager to take on the other side. If
we could do a movement where we kind of bring
people together. That would be good, trying to use our
skills in a way that benefits society as a whole
in the future as a whole, because I do think,
you know, the future of humanity is kind of reliant
on us getting along with each other, and it just
seems like the more we move on, the further along
(20:02):
we get divided.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I would call it a task, right, you know, that's
why not why not doing this and maybe this conversation
here today and when people listening to this and I.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Would love that that should be a movement we should
all focus on. I mean, we've got some of the
most brilliant minds in the world listening to your podcasts,
and I'm not just sucking up to you all, but
you are, and we are in charge of solving really interesting,
difficult problems. If we could somehow put our minds together
and create something that is bigger than all of us,
that would benefit society and just change the mentality, because
(20:33):
I believe if we got here through communications and social
media and mass media, I think we can get out
of it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree. So also, this statement is alves to be
heard on the main stage of every conference, So let's
make it happen. So for the future.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I like that movement. Let this is inspiring. We
should have something that's good. But if you wouldn't be
in the advertising world, where would your mischief show up? Instead?
Be in the politics?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Would it be in the comedy corner or would you
be to know where would you end up instead?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, if you're to ask a sixteen year old me,
I said I would be the next Eddie van Halen.
I was a big guitar frand but then, like later
and later, I soon realized like the world was perfectly
happy with that Eddie van Halen had already had it.
It didn't need it. I don't so I got out
of music, But I think now I've always had like
this fascination with comedy. I don't think I would ever perform,
That's just not me. But I would like to write
(21:28):
for like Saturday and Live or The Night Show or
something like that. Would I just think would be the
funnest job of the world.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
One final question, especially for the younger ones who are
listening and wants to be you know, or are already
in the creative kind of business. For the young creative listening,
right now and who feels pressure to play it safe.
Right Quite often you told, hey, make sure you save
and do the youth of stuff. What's one act of
mischief they can start with tomorrow. What's your advice for them?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, I posted this thought I saw that I think
is really great and I think it would apply to
anybody who's in marketing, whether it's for your brand or
for yourself. And it's be known before you are needed.
And I think the idea is that is like, you
have so many tools. This is towards like a young
creative trying to get it. You have so many tools
at your disposal right now to become famous. Treat yourself
as a brand right now, and become famous, be on
(22:17):
the radar on every creative director because they saw you
in their fee, because someone sent the thing you did.
You'll automatically break through. Because I think that somebody will
rely on traditional portfolios and you know, crative directors are
flooded with those and there's some great stuff, but it's
just really hard to break through that way. So treat
yourself as the marketing problem, the brand, and how do
(22:37):
you break through and create something that everybody wants to
pass on? And get your name out there.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Thank you, Thank you that what's a great advice. Thank
you so much. Hey Greg, I had a lot of fun.
You know that wasn't inspiring first conversation with you, and
thank you for that. And based on what you've said,
I can definitely say that miss story is it proved
that when you fight indifference, when you embrace authenticity and
create a safe place for dangerous ideas like you described,
(23:03):
you can truly reshap your industry. And that's what you do.
Thank you for bringing that fearless mindset to possible. Now,
thanks for being with us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh, thank you. This is a great conversation and let's
change the world absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And to everyone listening, as I said before, go to
mis Your's website. You know it's an exciting journey. Spend
some time on it and get to know mischiefs and
what they're doing, and keep pushing boundaries, keep asking both
questions and keep turning possibilities into reality. I see you soon.
Thanks for joining us, Thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again,
(23:35):
I'm your host, Christian Moher. If you have a question
or suggestion to me, reach out send me the m
on LinkedIn. If you're courious, to learn more about Possible,
sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to
join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit possibleevent
dot com. Possible Now is a co production of iHeartMedia
(23:55):
and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Marx and Yasmin Melendez.
Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special thanks to Colleen
Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our theme music is
composed by Anthony Ketticoli. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit
the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(24:16):
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