March 27, 2025 • 44 mins
Carla Hassan discusses the transformative power of AI in marketing and the crucial role of purpose and creativity amidst rapid technological change. Learn how she's leading JPMorgan Chase with a forward-thinking approach, blending heart and science for lasting connections.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to Possible Now. Today, we have the incredible
opportunity to sit down with one of the most visionary
and influential leaders in marketing, Karla Hassan, Chief Marketing Officer of.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
JP Morgan Chase.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Carla is a trailblazer in the industry, known for her
ability to seamlessly blend creativity, data driven insights, and purpose
to build brands that truly connect with people. She has
led marketing for some of the world's most iconic companies
like City, PepsiCo, Callogs, and toy Surs, driving impactful campaigns
(00:41):
and fostering a culture of inclusivity and innovation. At JP
Morgan Chase, Carla is redefining what it means to be
a financial brand, ensuring that marketing doesn't just sell products,
but also drives meaningful change for customers and communities. And
in today's conversation, we will die into Carla's leadership journey
(01:02):
as well as the evolving role of marketing, but also
how AI, innovation and purpose are shaping the future of
the industry, and of course, the person behind the title,
what inspires her, her leadership philosophy and the advice she
has for aspiring marketers. So this is going to be
a very insightful and inspiring discussion with one of the
(01:24):
most dynamic cemos in the industry. So let's get it
right into and please join me in welcoming Karla Hassan.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Welcome Karla.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my gosh, what an introduction. Thank you so so
so much. I'm so excited to be here and it's
been a long time coming, so thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Me, great, great Cala.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
At the beginning of our podcast, I start normally with
a question about your personally and if there is, for example,
something about you that most of the people don't know yet.
So if you are willing maybe to share something about
a hidden talent or maybe an unexpected hobby, or maybe
even a childhood dream that had nothing to do with marketing,
(02:05):
Is there anything you know you can you're willing to
share with us?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Oh, lots of things, but I think probably one that
most people would be surprised about or to learn is
that I absolutely love to build legos and puzzles. That's
the thing that takes me away from all the stress
of day to day life, of work, of family, of motherhood,
of parenting, about the only thing that actually makes me
(02:30):
put my phone down and not think about anything else
and just focus.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I love it, in fact, in right now doing a
lego typewriter, which is quite the challenge.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So it means if we would see your home, there
would be a collection of these kind of different structures.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right Know.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
What's odd about it is the legos. When I make them,
if they are pretty intricate, I give them away. So
the typewriter, I know exactly who I'm going to give
it away to. And then the puzzles, sadly, we break
them apart. So I enjoyed them for the moment and
then break them apart. And I do give the puzzle
away to people, to whoever else likes puzzles. I've been
actually during COVID, I used to send puzzles when I
(03:10):
was finished with them to other people and get some
from others.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh that's awesome, that's awesome. That's a great insight. Thank
you for sharing this with us. Okay, so let's start
a bit about you know, of course, your leadership, your
style of leadership, and also authenticity, which is very important.
And I hear this word a lot from many leaders,
but what does it truly mean to you as a leader?
And how do we ensure authenticity in your leadership style
(03:36):
while balancing the many demands of such a high profile
corporate role.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Look, it's a great question, and it's a great question
for several reasons, because our teams look at us as
leaders to get all of their inspiration, to get their direction,
to get knowledge, and we set the tone, and in
a lot of ways, they see us some times kind
of like our children see us as as you know,
(04:03):
unbreakable and perfect, or they expect us to be. And
I think, you know, to me, authenticity is building trust
with them, and that means even if it means I'm
vulnerable sometimes and I think some leaders are afraid of that,
but I feel for me, it's really really important. The
minute that you are authentic or you show up as
(04:25):
who you are, I believe it builds a connection, a trust,
not only with your own team, but with your partners,
with your colleagues. You know, being able to say that
you don't know something when you don't know it, being
able to, you know, to ask questions. I think that
really just builds community. Builds community with you again your
own team, it builds community with people around you. And
(04:48):
so I think that's why For me, authenticity is really important.
It's the only way I know how to show up.
And I've tried in the past to look around and
see who else was successful, and I would try to
emulate them, but it was so different than who I was,
and I realized that in those moments, I just I
(05:08):
just wasn't as effective as I could be. And so
the more authentic I believe that you are to yourself,
the more power you have, and I think the more
confident you become, and that builds a certain level of trust.
And so authenticity comes in so many different forms. Do
you know what I mean? It doesn't mean you have
to be nice to everybody. It just means you have
to be exactly who you are, and I think people
(05:31):
really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And it also brings your team members and potentially also
your clients or your partners you're doing business with in
the similar position right to feel that they can do
it in a similar way. Have you had you mentioned
a role, Well.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
For sure, I was going to build on that because,
like I said in the beginning, people are watching you,
and so the way you behave, they then start to behave.
And so what's interesting about that is if you yourself
are authentic and you demand that of the people around you,
or they become you know, they want to emulate that.
You build a culture of authenticity, and a culture of
(06:05):
authenticity is a culture of trust and a culture of connection.
And who doesn't want a culture of trust and connection
with you know, with your own team and with your
colleagues and frankly with your customers and clients.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, absolutely, right. Have you had a role model you
mentioned when you expand this kind of role model? Have
you had somebody you could use as a role model
developing into this kind of person?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, Look, I think everything starts at home. And so
for me, both my parents, my mother who passed away
a couple of years ago and my father who's thankfully
still with us and healthy. And they are probably the
most authentic people I know they have. You know, my
father is ninety one years old and to this day
he is who he is from you know, when I
(06:49):
was born. And so I think for me again, this
notion of emulating the you know quote leader that is
in your life, and for so long they have been
the leaders in my life, and so for me it
really has always started at home. How they treat others
how they live their life. So authenticity, kindness, vulnerability, all
(07:10):
of that has really not just shaped me into the person,
but frankly into the leader that I am.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
As well as empathy, right, I mean, I think we
agree that empathy is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Also at heart of effective leadership.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And if so, how do you cultivate a culture of
empathy within large organizations like JP Morgan Chase. I mean,
this is a massive organization with so many different, you know,
people and characters and personalities.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
How do you do this?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, it's so, you know, Empathy, for the longest time,
I think was a word that was synonymous with nice
and being nice, particularly as a woman in corporate America
right or in the corporate world was not necessarily a
positive thing if someone said to you, you're too nice.
But then I think post twenty twenty, you know, when
(07:57):
people really started having to see what other folks were
going through each and every single day while they were working,
I think those that have inherently an empathic nature to
them as leader were the ones that thrived in the
hardest times. And I think for me, empathy is very
(08:18):
simple when you look at sort of how I define it.
It's actively listening understanding where somebody else is coming from
and helping then solve solutions for that person, whether again
in a leadership position or even when we think about
our clients and our customers. And so for me, it's really, really,
(08:39):
really important. And interestingly enough, when I came to JP
morgan Chase, we did an exercise around our values, and
one of the values we have five values service, heart, curiosity, courage,
and excellence, and one of those values is heart. And
we talked a lot about should the word be hard,
(09:00):
should it be empathy, should it be love? So we
were dancing around is that what should that value look like?
We landed on heart. But to me, heart is just
another way to talk about being an empathic leader. It's
really about again listening and about understanding what people are
going through and about solving problems from their vantage point
(09:20):
as well. And so I think if you can as
a leader focus on empathy, it drives results. It drives results.
And so for me it wasn't hard in this corporate
environment because it is one of our values at JP
morgan Chase.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Have you ever experienced pushbacks or challenges in terms of
doing this bringing your whole selves to work? I mean
I can't imagine that many leaders have some concerns, you know,
or are hesitating of it to do this for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
For sure, like I said earlier in my career, I
was told I was too nice. That that's what it was.
People would say, like, you know, why aren't be so nice?
And I'm actually not nice, not that I'm not nice.
But it's not about being nice.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it's actually.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
My daughter might tell you sometimes, but it's not about
being nice. It's literally about understanding what other people are
going through. And you know where it comes for me.
It comes from for me when I first moved to
this country. So I'm an immigrant, and when I first moved,
I moved during the initial Gulf War when Aida invade
(10:26):
it Kwait and nobody really liked Arabs at the time.
I had a very strong accent, and people would say
really nasty things to me, and I was always hopeful
that they would just understand who I was, if they
actually just asked me questions, if they understood who I
was and where I was coming from, then they actually
might see me in a very different light than what
(10:48):
they see on television or whatever. And so for me,
that's why it's really important But to go back to
your question, Yes, absolutely, I have struggled with that my
entire career. Even now. Sometimes I have to think about it,
you know, and as a leader, you've got to be flexible,
So you've got to think about where where now do
(11:10):
I use empathy to listen to what other people, where
other people are coming from, and where actually do I
need to be more you know, make the decision on
my own right right, make the decision on my own,
be more direct, and not actually bring other people in right,
which is foreign to me. It's a foreign concept to me.
And so yeah, I absolutely struggle with it. I would
(11:31):
suspect that most people do. I mean, in corporate America,
we want results in corporate in the corporate world, we
want results. We want people who are decisive. And sometimes
when you're more empathic, you're more you collaborate more, and
maybe it takes a little bit of more time to
get to decisions. And I think that some people don't
like that, and so but for me, it has been
(11:52):
so far, very success, you know, a very successful trait
that I've had as a leader.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Obviously obviously and a one hundred percent agree what you've
said You've mentioned before being authentic. You know, you build
also trust across organizations and within your teams. How do
you maintain that trust in such a time, you know,
this kind of rapid transformation, these changes every day at
a speed we've never experienced before. I can imagine that
(12:20):
many people, whether in our business and of course outside
of our business, are sometimes very scared about this. How
do you maintain the trust in your own organizations? Let's
call it also confidence. Hard to provide confidence as well.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard because change is hard,
Innovation is hard. Especially when you're in a business that's
doing well. People don't want to change necessarily very quickly,
and so building that trust and building that confidence is important,
and it is deliberate. So I'm going to use words
like process over communication. You cannot underestimate in a time
(12:54):
of extreme change and extreme innovation, the discipline that has
to go in to managing that. And maybe they're counterintuitive
because I think most people think innovation fast move, you know,
just test and learn and just go get it done.
But the reality is, particularly when you're in a large
organization and very very matrixed, you have got to be deliberate.
(13:19):
You've got to be disciplined, and sometimes something might take
a little bit longer. But when you bring everybody along
with you, it drives to your question, it drives that trust,
it drives that confidence. And so I do have people
though that on my team that do get frustrated. You know,
they think that, you know, something might take too long
of time, or you know, they just want to go.
They have an idea and they just want to go
(13:41):
do it. The problem is is that if you go
do something on your own and you don't bring other
people with you, then back to your point, you don't
build the trust and the confidence, and that idea stays small.
It stays your own idea and instead of being able
to share it across the world organization and to scale
(14:01):
it across the organization. And so it's the boring stuff.
It's the process, it's the change management, it's the collaboration.
It's the stuff that people don't like to do when
they think about change and they think about innovation.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Right, and funnily enough, you know it belongs to small
organizations and of course even more to big organizations like yours.
When I think I've learned about jpmong chases purpose, which
is we make dreams possible for.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Everyone, everywhere, every day.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I think you introduced it more as two years
ago if I'm right, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think this is a very powerful purpose obviously, And
how do you ensure this mission translates into meaningful action
across marketing, consumer engagement, and also employee experience?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How do you do this?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So for me, the way that it works is it
has to start at the top. And so when we
reduced the idea of writing the purpose of our organization,
we were just coming out of a moment in time
where thirty forty percent of our colleagues were you in
the last three years to the company. They had really
only known each other on little squares. They didn't really
(15:16):
truly understand the magic of the culture of JP Morgan Chase,
an almost two hundred year old company. But the people
that had been here a long time knew what that
magic was. And so we sought to articulate that, to
codify it, to put it in one piece of language that,
as you say, was not just important for the outside world,
(15:39):
our customers and our clients to know what we stood
for and what our purpose was, but more importantly for
three hundred thousand people that show up every single day.
And so it started at the top Jamie, the entire
operating committee, everybody was involved. We co crafted it together
and then we had a rollout plan. So you want
to think about we thought about it exactly as we
(16:00):
think about any other campaign, and you know, lots at
stake because it's our internal people and how they feel,
and so we were deliberate. We we went and did
research tens of thousands of people around the world. We
looked at all of our you know, things that we
had written about our culture, what our people were saying.
We went to our EOS results, our employee opinion survey results, everything,
(16:23):
and we built this framework that articulated what the purpose
was and what the values were. And if we didn't
have sponsorship from the top, it would have been really,
really hard. But so then we just became you know,
we just managed it stage by stage by stage. So
first it was you know, Jamie and I talking on
a stage about it. And again, when you have the
(16:44):
CEO and chairman of the firm, you know, talking about
our purpose and our values and why they are important,
it helps galvanize the senior leaders of the organization. But
then they started to believe it. And then when they
believed that language and they thought it was meaningful, they
then took it to their teams, et cetera, et cetera.
But we have a we have an internal CMO who
(17:05):
we hired about a year ago, and she is responsible
for taking all of the great work that we do
with our purpose, our values, all the things we do
in our organization, and helping our three hundred and three
hundred plus thousand employees understand why each and every single
one of them is here and how they contribute to
(17:26):
that that that purpose of making dreams possible for everyone, everywhere,
every day. And so again, we treated it much like
we treat any other campaign. There was an editorial calendar,
there still is, and I think very importantly we did
not treat it as a one year thing. So for us,
it is important that you know it is a multi
(17:47):
year journey. And the very beginning people would say, oh,
I know you, you know you wrote the purpose Carla,
like it's Carla's purpose because I was standing on the stage,
you know, telling everybody about it. Today, I am so
proud that it is everybody else's purpose. Now we get
emails that show us how people in our branches have
(18:09):
taken the purpose and you know, made mugs out of
them or made a poster or something because it's them
and they love it and they believe in it. And
I think that's probably what's the most important. But it
has to start on the top. It has to be
a deliberate you know, thinking about how we're going to
roll it out to the organization and then you know,
externally to our customers and our clients as well, who
(18:31):
have been very open and welcoming with it because it
shows that we believe in something and we stand for something.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And you've mentioned, you know, you developed this, you implemented
this purpose. You mentioned campaigns. Was there any campaign since
then or initiative which stands out for you based on
that purpose where you know people would immediately recognize this
externally of course, to recognize that purpose.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, so the campaign that we've done externally is under
the handle of make Happen. So we didn't want to
take our internal purpose of make dreams possible and make
that a tagline of a campaign that's internal for us.
It's a rallying cry and a sort of really nice
you know why we exist, but it translated into an
external campaign called make Happen, which is, you know, make
(19:19):
momentum happen, make you know, whatever it is, make small
business happen, et cetera. But the idea of that we
make something happen and help make it happen. And I'll
tell you one in particular that I really love is
last year. We have been pushing for an initiative called
Second Chances for a long time, and that initiative is
(19:40):
really about going to different states around the nation and
making sure that we are helping the states give people
second chances to work, people who have been incarcerated, people
who have a record, you know, something little something like
you know, maybe when they were nineteen years old, they
were smoking marijuana in their college door room and they
(20:00):
got caught and they got arrested, and now they have
a record, and to expunge that record, it requires thousands
and thousands of pieces of paper, thousands and thousands of dollars.
And so what ends up happening is anytime those people
want to go for a job, they have to check
on a piece of paper that they have a record,
which in a lot of ways stops them a criminal record,
(20:23):
right which in a lot of ways stops them from
actually getting a job, and so giving them a second
chance is really important. So we did a campaign last
year where we went we did a whole exhibition in
front of in Philadelphia and then we took video of that.
We turned that into content. But it wasn't just the
content that was meaningful for me. It was the moment
(20:43):
that we did. It was when we were working with
other governments to try to get them to change their
second chance laws as well. So it really was an
entire effort from the organization, not just marketing but also
government affairs coming together to do greater things in the
community under the heading of men Happen.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I've mentioned at the beginning as part of the introduction
that you worked across you know, very different industries with
your experience and you know, spanning industries from finance to
consumer goods. How do you ensure that purpose remains constant
even as business objectives and also industries shift. I mean,
I can imagine that not just stepping into a new
(21:23):
industry and fully understand, you know, everything which belongs to
the industry, and then in new organization, I can imagine
there's a super challenging to be very you know, consistent
with that kind of purpose.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How do you do this for yourself?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, So for for us it's challenging in some ways.
If you where I think marketers make the mistakes sometimes
is that they take they think that purpose marketing sits
on its own, Yeah, and it's only about the brand
and that everything else is everything else they do, right,
So they're driving performance through something that's not purposeful or whatever.
(22:01):
And for us we look at it very differently. And
for me as a marketer, I look at it very differently.
For me, when you articulate what your purpose is and
what your values are, those permeate everything you do. And
so when we think about, you know that we are
a brand that has you know, service and heart and
curiosity and courage and excellence at the heart of its values.
(22:26):
That translates into our marketing. That translates into the campaigns
we do. That translates into how we think about driving
the business. Look, at the end of the day, purpose
is not fluffy. It drives business growth. Marketing drives business growth,
and so for us we don't think about it differently.
So we just think about who are our customers, who
(22:47):
are our clients, What are the marketing campaigns and how
is our purpose permeated into the things we do all
the way down by the way to you know, an
article that you might find on our website or on
our app that's all around financial education. That's still business,
but it's with a purpose, and so for us that's
(23:07):
really really important. You know, we have a product called
Credit Journey that's free to anybody, and it basically tells
you what your credit score rating is. It tells you
if it's gone up, it tells you if it's gone down,
but it also helps you. Now it doesn't introduce our products,
of course it does, but you don't have to use
our products. That is purposeful, you know. And so yes,
(23:30):
so I can tell you that there are real business
results behind Credit Journey, that's amazing. But I can also
tell you that it's done with purpose because we want
to make sure that people have financial health, if you will.
And so I don't see them as mutually exclusive. And
I think where we get in trouble sometimes as marketers
is when we separate. I'm going to do only purpose marketing,
(23:53):
and then I'm going to do you know, formats marketing
and to separate those two is actually, I think where
we make our mistake.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Let's broaden up the conversation a bit to a topic
which is absolutely in everybody's mind. I think these days,
in general, it's for years, because you know, you've been
a vocal advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion, which I
think you know, and I think not just me, feels
that this is under fire these days.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And looking ahet.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
What do you see as the biggest opportunities and challenges
for advancing d I within large organizations? And to give
a bit more context, you know, I've just read an
article in the New York Times, I think it was
yesterday or the day before, also with a quote from
your CEO saying that you know, this company would not
(24:59):
be away from its DEI efforts in response to activists,
which I think it's a strong and absolutely clear statement,
and I highly appreciate this, but not everybody obviously does
it these days. So let's talk about this for a second,
because you are and you always was a vocal advocate
for d I.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, so I am a vocal advocate, and so is
our organization. So I think you quoted Jamie, you know,
we do remain committed to DEI it's a business imperative.
It's important for us to keep our people at the
center of everything that we do and do right by them.
We continue to reach out to communities, the Black community,
(25:43):
the Hispanic community, LGBTQ, plus the veteran community, because for us,
it's the it's good for business, and I think when
you reframe it in that way and you think about
it as business first, it becomes really really important. So
when when I think about everything we've done across our
communities and the people that we serve in those communities,
(26:07):
we're very proud of it, and I think we we
just you know, we continue to do this work across
the communities. We lift up schools, communities, hospitals, small businesses,
governments in all the communities we serve. And so again,
I think it's really really, really important that we all
look at it through the lens of business, whatever whatever
(26:28):
you decide to call it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Now.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Obviously, as a firm, we're actively monitoring the evolving you know,
legal and the regulatory landscape. We continue to you know,
to monitor that, but we will always prioritize the well
being of our employees and our communities, and so we
you know, we just we we remain committed to that,
and I think it's again, you know, the only thing
(26:51):
that I might tell fellow marketers is that if we
look at it in the context of it's the right
thing to do for business, and it has always been
right thing to do, no matter what you call it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Exactly well, I mean, luckily you know a lot of
other leaders, you know, provide very similar quotes.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I think this is great to see.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
This conversation cannot happen without talking about technology trends and
specifically about AI in preparation for possible in April in Miami.
When I'm talking to partners and speakers and specifically to CMOS,
I get the impression that the time is over that
everybody tells us, you know, that the world is changing,
(27:33):
and this is even further going to change. So we
are we're looking for case studies, you know, learnings what
happened yesterday, What was you know, the outcome from yesterday's
efforts and activities, and what are the learnings for today's business.
Before going further down this way, please give us your
general perspective where we are. Specifically, you know what it
(27:54):
means currently for the work as a CMO and for
marketing in general.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It took a long did it take us Christian to
I give you five hours for that answer.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So look, there is no doubt about it that you know,
it is the topic du jour. In fact, I had
my senior leadership off site not too long ago and
we talked about it, you know, and as you can imagine,
every other marketer is talking about it for sure. But
I would tell you I agree with you at the
time is now to actually move forward and stop talking
about the fact that AI is going to come.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Now.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The reality is for us, in a lot of ways
we have been using AI. It's been you know, and
large language models in the banking industry and so but
in marketing we have really on my team. You won't
be surprised to know that there are about one hundred
and fifty active projects, and every single day there are
more and more and more. And we are you know,
(28:52):
four thousand people across the world in different lines of businesses,
in different marketing functions, and so there always is going
to be a lot of What I am trying to
do now, what I would encourage all other leaders to
do is really think about how to prioritize those things
because there's a lot of noise out there. There's a
lot of new platforms. Every day, something's popping up. You
(29:12):
can't keep track of it. And so I think what
we are trying to do now, or what we are
doing now, is prioritizing those and saying, like, across the board,
across the marketing organization, what is the most important to us?
Where are we going to lead and lean in and
where do we need to wait a little bit for
the technology to advance a little bit further before we
(29:33):
move forward. And we don't have all the answers to
those questions yet, but we are definitely experimenting. We actually
were One of the first use cases in our firm
was in marketing and it was in search and search
engine optimization. And so you know, in our world, we
write a lot of articles, a lot of financial education
and literacy articles, and those are people writing them, you know,
(29:55):
and sometimes those take seven days to do. What we
have done is we've turned our writers into editors and
so now they are prompt engineers. They you know, prompt
the internal chat GPT that we have and they now
you know, the output comes out and they are spending
maybe two hours now editing instead of you know, seven
(30:18):
hours or seven days or whatever it is writing. And
so it's been very good for us from an efficiency standpoint.
But I wouldn't stop there. I would tell you it's
actually driven significant effectiveness actually, and we're seeing significant and
PV results in our search and so we are really
starting to use the power of gen ai to not
(30:41):
just you know, talk about the possibility, but to actually
start seeing it in action. And we're piloting a lot
of projects. We're piloting, you know, some some interesting things
on our JP Morgan side of the business, where again
we go do client events and for the longest time,
you know, those client events and we would take like
beautiful nuggets of what people would say on panels and
(31:03):
package them up and market them to prospects or clients.
And that takes time. You know, when you can use
platforms that actually help you now do that in record time.
You can turn that content around, and you can turn
that personalized content around in twenty four hours. So one
client might care about a certain topic, the other client's
going to care about something totally different that was set
(31:25):
in an event. And so for us, we're seeing the
ability to drive a ton of efficiency but also effectiveness.
And that's just two examples of many others that we
are piloting. But I do think that it's an exciting time.
The thing that I would say, Christian, that I am
thinking about, though, is a couple of things. Number one
(31:45):
is how do we use it for good? Let's just
make sure that the AI is being used for good,
and I think in marketing for the most part it
will be, so I worry less about that. But I
do think that as an industry, we tend to get
excited by the next shiny object, and I think we've
got to again be deliberate and careful about what we
(32:06):
are choosing to really lean in on and what we
are choosing to sort of wait and see. And then
the last thing I would say is just because AI
is so powerful does not mean that the art of
creativity is gone. In fact, I would say to the contrary,
we now need more creativity because the technology can be
(32:27):
so powerful, and so the human side working alongside the
technology is going to be really, really critical. So for me,
you know, we talk a lot in our teams about
AI is not going to take your job. The person
that uses AI is going to take your job, and
so you've really got to think about how do we
live alongside this technology and make it work for us
(32:50):
as opposed to fight it, but even worse, lean so
much into it that you forget the power of human
creativity in marketing.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, that's interesting and interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I mean I can imagine that not just in terms
of how to execute things and start to INTEGRATEI platforms,
tool technologies into the daily work is super challenging, but
also to find the right partners because it feels for me,
it feels we are overcrowded with you know, as you said,
every day, new companies, new platforms, new tools, new solutions
(33:21):
will come up and you can't keep track. But on
the other hand, at some point you have to make
a decision, right, what is the best one for me today? Yes,
and maybe it's just for a couple of weeks or whatever.
I think this is extremely challenging. So hopefully we can
provide also some kind of clarity and some kind of transparency,
you know, when we bring hopefully the right people on
(33:42):
our stage in a couple of weeks time. But coming
back to my previous point that the biggest challenge I
also can see that to find the right partner and
to be able to make some decisions from time to time,
because at the end, you need to work with solutions
and platforms, right you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Do, and I think that what you guys are going
to do in a few weeks is going to be very,
very helpful because you have to somehow cut through the
noise and the reality is, at least for organizations like
my own, it's not easy to just say, oh, we're
going to use you know this platform and test it
for two weeks and then if it doesn't work, we
move on. Right Like with you know, with You've got
(34:21):
to bring it into your organization. You've got to make
sure that it's a viable proposition. You've got to make
sure that it's safe for your organization and your ecosystem.
So there's a lot of work that goes into even
just setting up some of these partners internally and then
and so you're right, you've got to make sure you're
choosing the right ones, the ones that have long term viability,
the ones that so it is I think as marketers
(34:43):
it's a big challenge from that perspective, and anything you
can do that you guys are going to do to
help sort of bring some clarity to that I think
will be very valuable.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So let's see, I'm really excited about, you know, knowing
a bit more about what's what's coming up there, and
I'm really here is to see, you know, how our
audience will react to this in general, but of course,
considering tech trends and what we just recently talked about,
what is a bold prediction you have for the future
of marketing and brand strategy?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Old prediction? Hmmm, I don't know that they're bold, but
I'll tell you that a few things that are on
my mind. I would say one is, you know, I
think in the conversations about AI, because they are so
consuming everything we talk about, I want us to not
lose sight of the basics of the things that we
(35:36):
do that as marketers that are really, really, really important,
and some things that are that are at least you know,
percolating in my head, in my team's head. I think
we cannot ignore and look, AI will be an enabler
to this for sure, but we cannot ignore the importance
of personalization and engagement with our customers and with our clients,
and so you know, increasingly that is a demand that
(36:00):
they have. I am giving you my data. I am
allowing you access to my data. You should know who
I am, and shame on you if you don't. And
I'm going to vote with my wallet if you don't, right,
I'm going to go somewhere else that does. And so
for us it is really important. And I think marketers
have to really think about how they harness their data,
(36:22):
how they harness the knowledge they have about their customers,
and marry that with technology that is available to be
able to really create impactful, tailored experiences and products for customers.
I don't think we can ignore that in all the
conversation about you know, what's new, et cetera. The end
of the day, we have to remember as marketers, we
(36:44):
are serving our clients and our customers to drive meaningful
business growth. Number one. The other thing I would say
is I think that again in the sort of blocking
and tackling place, I think that, you know, the advent
of all of this technology is really going to, I believe,
allow us to have much greater efficiency, you know, streamline
(37:07):
all our processes, improve all our measures so that we
can really start to free up our people for the
things that actually are meaningful at the end of the day.
For me, when a lot of the technology commoditizes the
basic things that we do, what's left brand. What's left
(37:29):
It's the feeling that people have about your brand. It's
the values of your brand. It's what your brand does,
It's what your brand is saying and how people are
reacting to that, the value that you are giving to
your customers and clients. And I don't think we can
forget that. And so I think for we always talk
about it's either the brand or the performance. And for me,
(37:52):
I'm a broken record, and I think that you know,
I don't know bold prediction. But for me, as I
think about the future, those things have to continue to
come together. I talk a lot with my team about
heart and science, and we are blessed with a lot
of science here. We have eighty million active customers digitally,
(38:13):
we are you know, we have so much data. But
what we need to always have is heart, because at
the end of the day, you are marketing to a person.
You're not marketing to an IP address, You're not marketing
to a robot. You're marketing to a person. That person
has needs and dreams and fears, and we have to
(38:34):
think about that. So with all the data that we have,
we can build better brands, We can build better experiences,
and we should and that, to me, I think is
a big piece of it. And then the last thing
I would say is experience I think is going to
be a big like real life experiences, I think are
going to be a big thing that we are seeing
(38:55):
more and more brands do. We certainly are doing that
with all of our lounges. But the access to things
that being a part of your brand gets your customer
and your client, I think is going to be increasingly important.
What will be most important from a marketing perspective is
how do we turn those experiences that might be for
twenty five people into things that millions of people see
(39:19):
and millions of people feel, And so how do we
create the content around those experiences will become really really important.
So many other things, but those are probably the three
that are top of my mind.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Which, by the way, I think it is a bold prediction.
By the way, it's definitely a bold one. Cala let
me come back, let me come back to you know
how we kicked off kicked off our coganization today? Is
there you know a failure, or let's call it more
a challenge that shape your perspective and approach as a leader.
You want to share with our audience. I mean, you
(39:51):
are so experienced, you know there must be something.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Here's come on, there's many. There's many. Every single day
I have failures. I really do. Every single day there
are failures. I'm going to give you the big one
because that one, I think shaped me in a way
that's probably surprising to people. So I left PepsiCo at
the top of my game. Anyone would tell you she
was at the top of her game. Why would she
(40:17):
want to go to Toys r Us a company that was,
you know, in bad shape for a long time, and
why would she want to do that? Like that's the
death of her career? And for me, there were many
reasons why I did it, which was which is another
podcast in and of itself, so another episode of your podcast.
But you know, everyone knows the story of Toys r Us.
(40:40):
I arrived there, and you know, about six months later,
we decided that we were going to declare bankruptcy as
a company. And you know the first thing that sets
into your mind there is the ego as if I'm
being honest, it's the first thing that sets in, Oh
my god, what are people going to say. They're going
to say, I told you so, you never should have
(41:01):
done that, et cetera, et cetera. Once you put that aside, right,
once you put that aside, then you get into the
you know, the the nitty gritty of like what you
are doing day to day. And I will tell you
that I learned so much about that experience, so much
I learned about how to be a leader during the
most diverse moments of life. You know, people myself included
(41:27):
one day, We're no longer going to have a paycheck.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
The door was going to close and you had nothing,
you know. But I had to lead people through that.
And so the learning of back to the empathy point,
leading with empathy, leading with vulnerability, leading with authenticity was very, very,
very important, and I think a masterclass in that. The
other thing is, you know, how do you pick yourself
(41:51):
back up from that because that's so public, and how
do you build the confidence again to go do something else?
You know. But I look back on that experience and
you know, leaving consumer package goods to go into retail
where at a moment in time in the marketing industry,
eCOM was really important, becoming really important, digital marketing becoming
(42:13):
really important, loyalty programs, owning your own data, all the
things that have set me up to be where I
am today. It was such an important part of my
you know, career progression. And so even though yes, it
was a moment, it was sad, it was public, it
was you know, very very hard. Today, I look back
(42:37):
at that experience and I'm like, oh my gosh, even
though it ended way too quick, it actually gave me
all the things that I needed to continue to set
me up for success here. And I think that's the
way we should think about it. I don't think we
should think about as hard as the failures are. And
trust me, I'm making it sound like it's this beautiful
story of like ultimate success, but you know it's it
(42:59):
was hard. It was hard for me. It was hard
at home. It was hard in the industry. You know,
you realize who your friends are, you realize, you know,
when you don't have a checkbook and a marketer who's
still there for you. All of those things, right, those
are really important lessons I think for marketers to remember.
But it was an incredible, incredible learning, and I would
not be where I am today if it was not
(43:19):
for that experience. So I'm grateful for it, and I
can say that today several years in the later, I
couldn't have told you that in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
I think that was very powerful and it's such a
pleasure talking to you about your insights and your experiences.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And I feel it could go on and go on
and go on.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I remember my offer to you, you know, to give
you a couple of hours to force some specific answers,
you know, to dig in more details. So I'm looking
forward to do this at some time for sure. Thank
you so much for being on our show. With your
insights and your passion you're shown in this conversation, I
think our listeners have a lot to take away and
to think about it. Kyla, thank you so much for
(44:00):
being with us today.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me Christian, thank.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
You, thanks for tuning in everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Once again, I'm your host, Christian moh If you have
a question or suggestion to me, reach out send me
DM on LinkedIn. If you're curious to learn more about
possible sign up for our newsletter, or if you want
to join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit
Possible event dot com. Possible Now is a co production
of iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Martz
(44:32):
and Yasmin Melandez. Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special
thanks to Colleen Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our
theme music is composed by Anthony Keatacoli. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeart app Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome back to Possible Now. Today, we have the incredible
opportunity to sit down with one of the most visionary
and influential leaders in marketing, Karla Hassan, Chief Marketing Officer of.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
JP Morgan Chase.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Carla is a trailblazer in the industry, known for her
ability to seamlessly blend creativity, data driven insights, and purpose
to build brands that truly connect with people. She has
led marketing for some of the world's most iconic companies
like City, PepsiCo, Callogs, and toy Surs, driving impactful campaigns
(00:41):
and fostering a culture of inclusivity and innovation. At JP
Morgan Chase, Carla is redefining what it means to be
a financial brand, ensuring that marketing doesn't just sell products,
but also drives meaningful change for customers and communities. And
in today's conversation, we will die into Carla's leadership journey
(01:02):
as well as the evolving role of marketing, but also
how AI, innovation and purpose are shaping the future of
the industry, and of course, the person behind the title,
what inspires her, her leadership philosophy and the advice she
has for aspiring marketers. So this is going to be
a very insightful and inspiring discussion with one of the
(01:24):
most dynamic cemos in the industry. So let's get it
right into and please join me in welcoming Karla Hassan.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Welcome Karla.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my gosh, what an introduction. Thank you so so
so much. I'm so excited to be here and it's
been a long time coming, so thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Me, great, great Cala.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
At the beginning of our podcast, I start normally with
a question about your personally and if there is, for example,
something about you that most of the people don't know yet.
So if you are willing maybe to share something about
a hidden talent or maybe an unexpected hobby, or maybe
even a childhood dream that had nothing to do with marketing,
(02:05):
Is there anything you know you can you're willing to
share with us?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Oh, lots of things, but I think probably one that
most people would be surprised about or to learn is
that I absolutely love to build legos and puzzles. That's
the thing that takes me away from all the stress
of day to day life, of work, of family, of motherhood,
of parenting, about the only thing that actually makes me
(02:30):
put my phone down and not think about anything else
and just focus.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I love it, in fact, in right now doing a
lego typewriter, which is quite the challenge.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So it means if we would see your home, there
would be a collection of these kind of different structures.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right Know.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
What's odd about it is the legos. When I make them,
if they are pretty intricate, I give them away. So
the typewriter, I know exactly who I'm going to give
it away to. And then the puzzles, sadly, we break
them apart. So I enjoyed them for the moment and
then break them apart. And I do give the puzzle
away to people, to whoever else likes puzzles. I've been
actually during COVID, I used to send puzzles when I
(03:10):
was finished with them to other people and get some
from others.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh that's awesome, that's awesome. That's a great insight. Thank
you for sharing this with us. Okay, so let's start
a bit about you know, of course, your leadership, your
style of leadership, and also authenticity, which is very important.
And I hear this word a lot from many leaders,
but what does it truly mean to you as a leader?
And how do we ensure authenticity in your leadership style
(03:36):
while balancing the many demands of such a high profile
corporate role.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Look, it's a great question, and it's a great question
for several reasons, because our teams look at us as
leaders to get all of their inspiration, to get their direction,
to get knowledge, and we set the tone, and in
a lot of ways, they see us some times kind
of like our children see us as as you know,
(04:03):
unbreakable and perfect, or they expect us to be. And
I think, you know, to me, authenticity is building trust
with them, and that means even if it means I'm
vulnerable sometimes and I think some leaders are afraid of that,
but I feel for me, it's really really important. The
minute that you are authentic or you show up as
(04:25):
who you are, I believe it builds a connection, a trust,
not only with your own team, but with your partners,
with your colleagues. You know, being able to say that
you don't know something when you don't know it, being
able to, you know, to ask questions. I think that
really just builds community. Builds community with you again your
own team, it builds community with people around you. And
(04:48):
so I think that's why For me, authenticity is really important.
It's the only way I know how to show up.
And I've tried in the past to look around and
see who else was successful, and I would try to
emulate them, but it was so different than who I was,
and I realized that in those moments, I just I
(05:08):
just wasn't as effective as I could be. And so
the more authentic I believe that you are to yourself,
the more power you have, and I think the more
confident you become, and that builds a certain level of trust.
And so authenticity comes in so many different forms. Do
you know what I mean? It doesn't mean you have
to be nice to everybody. It just means you have
to be exactly who you are, and I think people
(05:31):
really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And it also brings your team members and potentially also
your clients or your partners you're doing business with in
the similar position right to feel that they can do
it in a similar way. Have you had you mentioned
a role, Well.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
For sure, I was going to build on that because,
like I said in the beginning, people are watching you,
and so the way you behave, they then start to behave.
And so what's interesting about that is if you yourself
are authentic and you demand that of the people around you,
or they become you know, they want to emulate that.
You build a culture of authenticity, and a culture of
(06:05):
authenticity is a culture of trust and a culture of connection.
And who doesn't want a culture of trust and connection
with you know, with your own team and with your
colleagues and frankly with your customers and clients.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, absolutely, right. Have you had a role model you
mentioned when you expand this kind of role model? Have
you had somebody you could use as a role model
developing into this kind of person?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, Look, I think everything starts at home. And so
for me, both my parents, my mother who passed away
a couple of years ago and my father who's thankfully
still with us and healthy. And they are probably the
most authentic people I know they have. You know, my
father is ninety one years old and to this day
he is who he is from you know, when I
(06:49):
was born. And so I think for me again, this
notion of emulating the you know quote leader that is
in your life, and for so long they have been
the leaders in my life, and so for me it
really has always started at home. How they treat others
how they live their life. So authenticity, kindness, vulnerability, all
(07:10):
of that has really not just shaped me into the person,
but frankly into the leader that I am.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
As well as empathy, right, I mean, I think we
agree that empathy is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Also at heart of effective leadership.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And if so, how do you cultivate a culture of
empathy within large organizations like JP Morgan Chase. I mean,
this is a massive organization with so many different, you know,
people and characters and personalities.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
How do you do this?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, it's so, you know, Empathy, for the longest time,
I think was a word that was synonymous with nice
and being nice, particularly as a woman in corporate America
right or in the corporate world was not necessarily a
positive thing if someone said to you, you're too nice.
But then I think post twenty twenty, you know, when
(07:57):
people really started having to see what other folks were
going through each and every single day while they were working,
I think those that have inherently an empathic nature to
them as leader were the ones that thrived in the
hardest times. And I think for me, empathy is very
(08:18):
simple when you look at sort of how I define it.
It's actively listening understanding where somebody else is coming from
and helping then solve solutions for that person, whether again
in a leadership position or even when we think about
our clients and our customers. And so for me, it's really, really,
(08:39):
really important. And interestingly enough, when I came to JP
morgan Chase, we did an exercise around our values, and
one of the values we have five values service, heart, curiosity, courage,
and excellence, and one of those values is heart. And
we talked a lot about should the word be hard,
(09:00):
should it be empathy, should it be love? So we
were dancing around is that what should that value look like?
We landed on heart. But to me, heart is just
another way to talk about being an empathic leader. It's
really about again listening and about understanding what people are
going through and about solving problems from their vantage point
(09:20):
as well. And so I think if you can as
a leader focus on empathy, it drives results. It drives results.
And so for me it wasn't hard in this corporate
environment because it is one of our values at JP
morgan Chase.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Have you ever experienced pushbacks or challenges in terms of
doing this bringing your whole selves to work? I mean
I can't imagine that many leaders have some concerns, you know,
or are hesitating of it to do this for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
For sure, like I said earlier in my career, I
was told I was too nice. That that's what it was.
People would say, like, you know, why aren't be so nice?
And I'm actually not nice, not that I'm not nice.
But it's not about being nice.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it's actually.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
My daughter might tell you sometimes, but it's not about
being nice. It's literally about understanding what other people are
going through. And you know where it comes for me.
It comes from for me when I first moved to
this country. So I'm an immigrant, and when I first moved,
I moved during the initial Gulf War when Aida invade
(10:26):
it Kwait and nobody really liked Arabs at the time.
I had a very strong accent, and people would say
really nasty things to me, and I was always hopeful
that they would just understand who I was, if they
actually just asked me questions, if they understood who I
was and where I was coming from, then they actually
might see me in a very different light than what
(10:48):
they see on television or whatever. And so for me,
that's why it's really important But to go back to
your question, Yes, absolutely, I have struggled with that my
entire career. Even now. Sometimes I have to think about it,
you know, and as a leader, you've got to be flexible,
So you've got to think about where where now do
(11:10):
I use empathy to listen to what other people, where
other people are coming from, and where actually do I
need to be more you know, make the decision on
my own right right, make the decision on my own,
be more direct, and not actually bring other people in right,
which is foreign to me. It's a foreign concept to me.
And so yeah, I absolutely struggle with it. I would
(11:31):
suspect that most people do. I mean, in corporate America,
we want results in corporate in the corporate world, we
want results. We want people who are decisive. And sometimes
when you're more empathic, you're more you collaborate more, and
maybe it takes a little bit of more time to
get to decisions. And I think that some people don't
like that, and so but for me, it has been
(11:52):
so far, very success, you know, a very successful trait
that I've had as a leader.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Obviously obviously and a one hundred percent agree what you've
said You've mentioned before being authentic. You know, you build
also trust across organizations and within your teams. How do
you maintain that trust in such a time, you know,
this kind of rapid transformation, these changes every day at
a speed we've never experienced before. I can imagine that
(12:20):
many people, whether in our business and of course outside
of our business, are sometimes very scared about this. How
do you maintain the trust in your own organizations? Let's
call it also confidence. Hard to provide confidence as well.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard because change is hard,
Innovation is hard. Especially when you're in a business that's
doing well. People don't want to change necessarily very quickly,
and so building that trust and building that confidence is important,
and it is deliberate. So I'm going to use words
like process over communication. You cannot underestimate in a time
(12:54):
of extreme change and extreme innovation, the discipline that has
to go in to managing that. And maybe they're counterintuitive
because I think most people think innovation fast move, you know,
just test and learn and just go get it done.
But the reality is, particularly when you're in a large
organization and very very matrixed, you have got to be deliberate.
(13:19):
You've got to be disciplined, and sometimes something might take
a little bit longer. But when you bring everybody along
with you, it drives to your question, it drives that trust,
it drives that confidence. And so I do have people
though that on my team that do get frustrated. You know,
they think that, you know, something might take too long
of time, or you know, they just want to go.
They have an idea and they just want to go
(13:41):
do it. The problem is is that if you go
do something on your own and you don't bring other
people with you, then back to your point, you don't
build the trust and the confidence, and that idea stays small.
It stays your own idea and instead of being able
to share it across the world organization and to scale
(14:01):
it across the organization. And so it's the boring stuff.
It's the process, it's the change management, it's the collaboration.
It's the stuff that people don't like to do when
they think about change and they think about innovation.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Right, and funnily enough, you know it belongs to small
organizations and of course even more to big organizations like yours.
When I think I've learned about jpmong chases purpose, which
is we make dreams possible for.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Everyone, everywhere, every day.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I think you introduced it more as two years
ago if I'm right, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think this is a very powerful purpose obviously, And
how do you ensure this mission translates into meaningful action
across marketing, consumer engagement, and also employee experience?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How do you do this?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So for me, the way that it works is it
has to start at the top. And so when we
reduced the idea of writing the purpose of our organization,
we were just coming out of a moment in time
where thirty forty percent of our colleagues were you in
the last three years to the company. They had really
only known each other on little squares. They didn't really
(15:16):
truly understand the magic of the culture of JP Morgan Chase,
an almost two hundred year old company. But the people
that had been here a long time knew what that
magic was. And so we sought to articulate that, to
codify it, to put it in one piece of language that,
as you say, was not just important for the outside world,
(15:39):
our customers and our clients to know what we stood
for and what our purpose was, but more importantly for
three hundred thousand people that show up every single day.
And so it started at the top Jamie, the entire
operating committee, everybody was involved. We co crafted it together
and then we had a rollout plan. So you want
to think about we thought about it exactly as we
(16:00):
think about any other campaign, and you know, lots at
stake because it's our internal people and how they feel,
and so we were deliberate. We we went and did
research tens of thousands of people around the world. We
looked at all of our you know, things that we
had written about our culture, what our people were saying.
We went to our EOS results, our employee opinion survey results, everything,
(16:23):
and we built this framework that articulated what the purpose
was and what the values were. And if we didn't
have sponsorship from the top, it would have been really,
really hard. But so then we just became you know,
we just managed it stage by stage by stage. So
first it was you know, Jamie and I talking on
a stage about it. And again, when you have the
(16:44):
CEO and chairman of the firm, you know, talking about
our purpose and our values and why they are important,
it helps galvanize the senior leaders of the organization. But
then they started to believe it. And then when they
believed that language and they thought it was meaningful, they
then took it to their teams, et cetera, et cetera.
But we have a we have an internal CMO who
(17:05):
we hired about a year ago, and she is responsible
for taking all of the great work that we do
with our purpose, our values, all the things we do
in our organization, and helping our three hundred and three
hundred plus thousand employees understand why each and every single
one of them is here and how they contribute to
(17:26):
that that that purpose of making dreams possible for everyone, everywhere,
every day. And so again, we treated it much like
we treat any other campaign. There was an editorial calendar,
there still is, and I think very importantly we did
not treat it as a one year thing. So for us,
it is important that you know it is a multi
(17:47):
year journey. And the very beginning people would say, oh,
I know you, you know you wrote the purpose Carla,
like it's Carla's purpose because I was standing on the stage,
you know, telling everybody about it. Today, I am so
proud that it is everybody else's purpose. Now we get
emails that show us how people in our branches have
(18:09):
taken the purpose and you know, made mugs out of
them or made a poster or something because it's them
and they love it and they believe in it. And
I think that's probably what's the most important. But it
has to start on the top. It has to be
a deliberate you know, thinking about how we're going to
roll it out to the organization and then you know,
externally to our customers and our clients as well, who
(18:31):
have been very open and welcoming with it because it
shows that we believe in something and we stand for something.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And you've mentioned, you know, you developed this, you implemented
this purpose. You mentioned campaigns. Was there any campaign since
then or initiative which stands out for you based on
that purpose where you know people would immediately recognize this
externally of course, to recognize that purpose.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, so the campaign that we've done externally is under
the handle of make Happen. So we didn't want to
take our internal purpose of make dreams possible and make
that a tagline of a campaign that's internal for us.
It's a rallying cry and a sort of really nice
you know why we exist, but it translated into an
external campaign called make Happen, which is, you know, make
(19:19):
momentum happen, make you know, whatever it is, make small
business happen, et cetera. But the idea of that we
make something happen and help make it happen. And I'll
tell you one in particular that I really love is
last year. We have been pushing for an initiative called
Second Chances for a long time, and that initiative is
(19:40):
really about going to different states around the nation and
making sure that we are helping the states give people
second chances to work, people who have been incarcerated, people
who have a record, you know, something little something like
you know, maybe when they were nineteen years old, they
were smoking marijuana in their college door room and they
(20:00):
got caught and they got arrested, and now they have
a record, and to expunge that record, it requires thousands
and thousands of pieces of paper, thousands and thousands of dollars.
And so what ends up happening is anytime those people
want to go for a job, they have to check
on a piece of paper that they have a record,
which in a lot of ways stops them a criminal record,
(20:23):
right which in a lot of ways stops them from
actually getting a job, and so giving them a second
chance is really important. So we did a campaign last
year where we went we did a whole exhibition in
front of in Philadelphia and then we took video of that.
We turned that into content. But it wasn't just the
content that was meaningful for me. It was the moment
(20:43):
that we did. It was when we were working with
other governments to try to get them to change their
second chance laws as well. So it really was an
entire effort from the organization, not just marketing but also
government affairs coming together to do greater things in the
community under the heading of men Happen.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I've mentioned at the beginning as part of the introduction
that you worked across you know, very different industries with
your experience and you know, spanning industries from finance to
consumer goods. How do you ensure that purpose remains constant
even as business objectives and also industries shift. I mean,
I can imagine that not just stepping into a new
(21:23):
industry and fully understand, you know, everything which belongs to
the industry, and then in new organization, I can imagine
there's a super challenging to be very you know, consistent
with that kind of purpose.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How do you do this for yourself?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, So for for us it's challenging in some ways.
If you where I think marketers make the mistakes sometimes
is that they take they think that purpose marketing sits
on its own, Yeah, and it's only about the brand
and that everything else is everything else they do, right,
So they're driving performance through something that's not purposeful or whatever.
(22:01):
And for us we look at it very differently. And
for me as a marketer, I look at it very differently.
For me, when you articulate what your purpose is and
what your values are, those permeate everything you do. And
so when we think about, you know that we are
a brand that has you know, service and heart and
curiosity and courage and excellence at the heart of its values.
(22:26):
That translates into our marketing. That translates into the campaigns
we do. That translates into how we think about driving
the business. Look, at the end of the day, purpose
is not fluffy. It drives business growth. Marketing drives business growth,
and so for us we don't think about it differently.
So we just think about who are our customers, who
(22:47):
are our clients, What are the marketing campaigns and how
is our purpose permeated into the things we do all
the way down by the way to you know, an
article that you might find on our website or on
our app that's all around financial education. That's still business,
but it's with a purpose, and so for us that's
(23:07):
really really important. You know, we have a product called
Credit Journey that's free to anybody, and it basically tells
you what your credit score rating is. It tells you
if it's gone up, it tells you if it's gone down,
but it also helps you. Now it doesn't introduce our products,
of course it does, but you don't have to use
our products. That is purposeful, you know. And so yes,
(23:30):
so I can tell you that there are real business
results behind Credit Journey, that's amazing. But I can also
tell you that it's done with purpose because we want
to make sure that people have financial health, if you will.
And so I don't see them as mutually exclusive. And
I think where we get in trouble sometimes as marketers
is when we separate. I'm going to do only purpose marketing,
(23:53):
and then I'm going to do you know, formats marketing
and to separate those two is actually, I think where
we make our mistake.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Let's broaden up the conversation a bit to a topic
which is absolutely in everybody's mind. I think these days,
in general, it's for years, because you know, you've been
a vocal advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion, which I
think you know, and I think not just me, feels
that this is under fire these days.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And looking ahet.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
What do you see as the biggest opportunities and challenges
for advancing d I within large organizations? And to give
a bit more context, you know, I've just read an
article in the New York Times, I think it was
yesterday or the day before, also with a quote from
your CEO saying that you know, this company would not
(24:59):
be away from its DEI efforts in response to activists,
which I think it's a strong and absolutely clear statement,
and I highly appreciate this, but not everybody obviously does
it these days. So let's talk about this for a second,
because you are and you always was a vocal advocate
for d I.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, so I am a vocal advocate, and so is
our organization. So I think you quoted Jamie, you know,
we do remain committed to DEI it's a business imperative.
It's important for us to keep our people at the
center of everything that we do and do right by them.
We continue to reach out to communities, the Black community,
(25:43):
the Hispanic community, LGBTQ, plus the veteran community, because for us,
it's the it's good for business, and I think when
you reframe it in that way and you think about
it as business first, it becomes really really important. So
when when I think about everything we've done across our
communities and the people that we serve in those communities,
(26:07):
we're very proud of it, and I think we we
just you know, we continue to do this work across
the communities. We lift up schools, communities, hospitals, small businesses,
governments in all the communities we serve. And so again,
I think it's really really, really important that we all
look at it through the lens of business, whatever whatever
(26:28):
you decide to call it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Now.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Obviously, as a firm, we're actively monitoring the evolving you know,
legal and the regulatory landscape. We continue to you know,
to monitor that, but we will always prioritize the well
being of our employees and our communities, and so we
you know, we just we we remain committed to that,
and I think it's again, you know, the only thing
(26:51):
that I might tell fellow marketers is that if we
look at it in the context of it's the right
thing to do for business, and it has always been
right thing to do, no matter what you call it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Exactly well, I mean, luckily you know a lot of
other leaders, you know, provide very similar quotes.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I think this is great to see.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
This conversation cannot happen without talking about technology trends and
specifically about AI in preparation for possible in April in Miami.
When I'm talking to partners and speakers and specifically to CMOS,
I get the impression that the time is over that
everybody tells us, you know, that the world is changing,
(27:33):
and this is even further going to change. So we
are we're looking for case studies, you know, learnings what
happened yesterday, What was you know, the outcome from yesterday's
efforts and activities, and what are the learnings for today's business.
Before going further down this way, please give us your
general perspective where we are. Specifically, you know what it
(27:54):
means currently for the work as a CMO and for
marketing in general.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It took a long did it take us Christian to
I give you five hours for that answer.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So look, there is no doubt about it that you know,
it is the topic du jour. In fact, I had
my senior leadership off site not too long ago and
we talked about it, you know, and as you can imagine,
every other marketer is talking about it for sure. But
I would tell you I agree with you at the
time is now to actually move forward and stop talking
about the fact that AI is going to come.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Now.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The reality is for us, in a lot of ways
we have been using AI. It's been you know, and
large language models in the banking industry and so but
in marketing we have really on my team. You won't
be surprised to know that there are about one hundred
and fifty active projects, and every single day there are
more and more and more. And we are you know,
(28:52):
four thousand people across the world in different lines of businesses,
in different marketing functions, and so there always is going
to be a lot of What I am trying to
do now, what I would encourage all other leaders to
do is really think about how to prioritize those things
because there's a lot of noise out there. There's a
lot of new platforms. Every day, something's popping up. You
(29:12):
can't keep track of it. And so I think what
we are trying to do now, or what we are
doing now, is prioritizing those and saying, like, across the board,
across the marketing organization, what is the most important to us?
Where are we going to lead and lean in and
where do we need to wait a little bit for
the technology to advance a little bit further before we
(29:33):
move forward. And we don't have all the answers to
those questions yet, but we are definitely experimenting. We actually
were One of the first use cases in our firm
was in marketing and it was in search and search
engine optimization. And so you know, in our world, we
write a lot of articles, a lot of financial education
and literacy articles, and those are people writing them, you know,
(29:55):
and sometimes those take seven days to do. What we
have done is we've turned our writers into editors and
so now they are prompt engineers. They you know, prompt
the internal chat GPT that we have and they now
you know, the output comes out and they are spending
maybe two hours now editing instead of you know, seven
(30:18):
hours or seven days or whatever it is writing. And
so it's been very good for us from an efficiency standpoint.
But I wouldn't stop there. I would tell you it's
actually driven significant effectiveness actually, and we're seeing significant and
PV results in our search and so we are really
starting to use the power of gen ai to not
(30:41):
just you know, talk about the possibility, but to actually
start seeing it in action. And we're piloting a lot
of projects. We're piloting, you know, some some interesting things
on our JP Morgan side of the business, where again
we go do client events and for the longest time,
you know, those client events and we would take like
beautiful nuggets of what people would say on panels and
(31:03):
package them up and market them to prospects or clients.
And that takes time. You know, when you can use
platforms that actually help you now do that in record time.
You can turn that content around, and you can turn
that personalized content around in twenty four hours. So one
client might care about a certain topic, the other client's
going to care about something totally different that was set
(31:25):
in an event. And so for us, we're seeing the
ability to drive a ton of efficiency but also effectiveness.
And that's just two examples of many others that we
are piloting. But I do think that it's an exciting time.
The thing that I would say, Christian, that I am
thinking about, though, is a couple of things. Number one
(31:45):
is how do we use it for good? Let's just
make sure that the AI is being used for good,
and I think in marketing for the most part it
will be, so I worry less about that. But I
do think that as an industry, we tend to get
excited by the next shiny object, and I think we've
got to again be deliberate and careful about what we
(32:06):
are choosing to really lean in on and what we
are choosing to sort of wait and see. And then
the last thing I would say is just because AI
is so powerful does not mean that the art of
creativity is gone. In fact, I would say to the contrary,
we now need more creativity because the technology can be
(32:27):
so powerful, and so the human side working alongside the
technology is going to be really, really critical. So for me,
you know, we talk a lot in our teams about
AI is not going to take your job. The person
that uses AI is going to take your job, and
so you've really got to think about how do we
live alongside this technology and make it work for us
(32:50):
as opposed to fight it, but even worse, lean so
much into it that you forget the power of human
creativity in marketing.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, that's interesting and interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I mean I can imagine that not just in terms
of how to execute things and start to INTEGRATEI platforms,
tool technologies into the daily work is super challenging, but
also to find the right partners because it feels for me,
it feels we are overcrowded with you know, as you said,
every day, new companies, new platforms, new tools, new solutions
(33:21):
will come up and you can't keep track. But on
the other hand, at some point you have to make
a decision, right, what is the best one for me today? Yes,
and maybe it's just for a couple of weeks or whatever.
I think this is extremely challenging. So hopefully we can
provide also some kind of clarity and some kind of transparency,
you know, when we bring hopefully the right people on
(33:42):
our stage in a couple of weeks time. But coming
back to my previous point that the biggest challenge I
also can see that to find the right partner and
to be able to make some decisions from time to time,
because at the end, you need to work with solutions
and platforms, right you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Do, and I think that what you guys are going
to do in a few weeks is going to be very,
very helpful because you have to somehow cut through the
noise and the reality is, at least for organizations like
my own, it's not easy to just say, oh, we're
going to use you know this platform and test it
for two weeks and then if it doesn't work, we
move on. Right Like with you know, with You've got
(34:21):
to bring it into your organization. You've got to make
sure that it's a viable proposition. You've got to make
sure that it's safe for your organization and your ecosystem.
So there's a lot of work that goes into even
just setting up some of these partners internally and then
and so you're right, you've got to make sure you're
choosing the right ones, the ones that have long term viability,
the ones that so it is I think as marketers
(34:43):
it's a big challenge from that perspective, and anything you
can do that you guys are going to do to
help sort of bring some clarity to that I think
will be very valuable.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So let's see, I'm really excited about, you know, knowing
a bit more about what's what's coming up there, and
I'm really here is to see, you know, how our
audience will react to this in general, but of course,
considering tech trends and what we just recently talked about,
what is a bold prediction you have for the future
of marketing and brand strategy?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Old prediction? Hmmm, I don't know that they're bold, but
I'll tell you that a few things that are on
my mind. I would say one is, you know, I
think in the conversations about AI, because they are so
consuming everything we talk about, I want us to not
lose sight of the basics of the things that we
(35:36):
do that as marketers that are really, really, really important,
and some things that are that are at least you know,
percolating in my head, in my team's head. I think
we cannot ignore and look, AI will be an enabler
to this for sure, but we cannot ignore the importance
of personalization and engagement with our customers and with our clients,
and so you know, increasingly that is a demand that
(36:00):
they have. I am giving you my data. I am
allowing you access to my data. You should know who
I am, and shame on you if you don't. And
I'm going to vote with my wallet if you don't, right,
I'm going to go somewhere else that does. And so
for us it is really important. And I think marketers
have to really think about how they harness their data,
(36:22):
how they harness the knowledge they have about their customers,
and marry that with technology that is available to be
able to really create impactful, tailored experiences and products for customers.
I don't think we can ignore that in all the
conversation about you know, what's new, et cetera. The end
of the day, we have to remember as marketers, we
(36:44):
are serving our clients and our customers to drive meaningful
business growth. Number one. The other thing I would say
is I think that again in the sort of blocking
and tackling place, I think that, you know, the advent
of all of this technology is really going to, I believe,
allow us to have much greater efficiency, you know, streamline
(37:07):
all our processes, improve all our measures so that we
can really start to free up our people for the
things that actually are meaningful at the end of the day.
For me, when a lot of the technology commoditizes the
basic things that we do, what's left brand. What's left
(37:29):
It's the feeling that people have about your brand. It's
the values of your brand. It's what your brand does,
It's what your brand is saying and how people are
reacting to that, the value that you are giving to
your customers and clients. And I don't think we can
forget that. And so I think for we always talk
about it's either the brand or the performance. And for me,
(37:52):
I'm a broken record, and I think that you know,
I don't know bold prediction. But for me, as I
think about the future, those things have to continue to
come together. I talk a lot with my team about
heart and science, and we are blessed with a lot
of science here. We have eighty million active customers digitally,
(38:13):
we are you know, we have so much data. But
what we need to always have is heart, because at
the end of the day, you are marketing to a person.
You're not marketing to an IP address, You're not marketing
to a robot. You're marketing to a person. That person
has needs and dreams and fears, and we have to
(38:34):
think about that. So with all the data that we have,
we can build better brands, We can build better experiences,
and we should and that, to me, I think is
a big piece of it. And then the last thing
I would say is experience I think is going to
be a big like real life experiences, I think are
going to be a big thing that we are seeing
(38:55):
more and more brands do. We certainly are doing that
with all of our lounges. But the access to things
that being a part of your brand gets your customer
and your client, I think is going to be increasingly important.
What will be most important from a marketing perspective is
how do we turn those experiences that might be for
twenty five people into things that millions of people see
(39:19):
and millions of people feel, And so how do we
create the content around those experiences will become really really important.
So many other things, but those are probably the three
that are top of my mind.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Which, by the way, I think it is a bold prediction.
By the way, it's definitely a bold one. Cala let
me come back, let me come back to you know
how we kicked off kicked off our coganization today? Is
there you know a failure, or let's call it more
a challenge that shape your perspective and approach as a leader.
You want to share with our audience. I mean, you
(39:51):
are so experienced, you know there must be something.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Here's come on, there's many. There's many. Every single day
I have failures. I really do. Every single day there
are failures. I'm going to give you the big one
because that one, I think shaped me in a way
that's probably surprising to people. So I left PepsiCo at
the top of my game. Anyone would tell you she
was at the top of her game. Why would she
(40:17):
want to go to Toys r Us a company that was,
you know, in bad shape for a long time, and
why would she want to do that? Like that's the
death of her career? And for me, there were many
reasons why I did it, which was which is another
podcast in and of itself, so another episode of your podcast.
But you know, everyone knows the story of Toys r Us.
(40:40):
I arrived there, and you know, about six months later,
we decided that we were going to declare bankruptcy as
a company. And you know the first thing that sets
into your mind there is the ego as if I'm
being honest, it's the first thing that sets in, Oh
my god, what are people going to say. They're going
to say, I told you so, you never should have
(41:01):
done that, et cetera, et cetera. Once you put that aside, right,
once you put that aside, then you get into the
you know, the the nitty gritty of like what you
are doing day to day. And I will tell you
that I learned so much about that experience, so much
I learned about how to be a leader during the
most diverse moments of life. You know, people myself included
(41:27):
one day, We're no longer going to have a paycheck.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
The door was going to close and you had nothing,
you know. But I had to lead people through that.
And so the learning of back to the empathy point,
leading with empathy, leading with vulnerability, leading with authenticity was very, very,
very important, and I think a masterclass in that. The
other thing is, you know, how do you pick yourself
(41:51):
back up from that because that's so public, and how
do you build the confidence again to go do something else?
You know. But I look back on that experience and
you know, leaving consumer package goods to go into retail
where at a moment in time in the marketing industry,
eCOM was really important, becoming really important, digital marketing becoming
(42:13):
really important, loyalty programs, owning your own data, all the
things that have set me up to be where I
am today. It was such an important part of my
you know, career progression. And so even though yes, it
was a moment, it was sad, it was public, it
was you know, very very hard. Today, I look back
(42:37):
at that experience and I'm like, oh my gosh, even
though it ended way too quick, it actually gave me
all the things that I needed to continue to set
me up for success here. And I think that's the
way we should think about it. I don't think we
should think about as hard as the failures are. And
trust me, I'm making it sound like it's this beautiful
story of like ultimate success, but you know it's it
(42:59):
was hard. It was hard for me. It was hard
at home. It was hard in the industry. You know,
you realize who your friends are, you realize, you know,
when you don't have a checkbook and a marketer who's
still there for you. All of those things, right, those
are really important lessons I think for marketers to remember.
But it was an incredible, incredible learning, and I would
not be where I am today if it was not
(43:19):
for that experience. So I'm grateful for it, and I
can say that today several years in the later, I
couldn't have told you that in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
I think that was very powerful and it's such a
pleasure talking to you about your insights and your experiences.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And I feel it could go on and go on
and go on.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I remember my offer to you, you know, to give
you a couple of hours to force some specific answers,
you know, to dig in more details. So I'm looking
forward to do this at some time for sure. Thank
you so much for being on our show. With your
insights and your passion you're shown in this conversation, I
think our listeners have a lot to take away and
to think about it. Kyla, thank you so much for
(44:00):
being with us today.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me Christian, thank.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
You, thanks for tuning in everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Once again, I'm your host, Christian moh If you have
a question or suggestion to me, reach out send me
DM on LinkedIn. If you're curious to learn more about
possible sign up for our newsletter, or if you want
to join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit
Possible event dot com. Possible Now is a co production
of iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Martz
(44:32):
and Yasmin Melandez. Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special
thanks to Colleen Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our
theme music is composed by Anthony Keatacoli. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeart app Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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