Bloomberg’s Jason Kelly on the Hidden Traits of the World’s Most Successful Athletes

In this energizing episode of Post Run High, Bloomberg’s Jason Kelly — co-host of The Deal alongside Alex Rodriguez (A-Rod) — shares what elite athletes teach you about business, leadership, and resilience. Jason opens up about his path as a journalist, how running sparked his lifelong curiosity, and what it's like to sit down with legends like Serena Williams and other world-class athletes. He breaks down what makes a great interviewer, how to build trust, and why sports figures often make the best entrepreneurs. With deep appreciation for working alongside A-Rod, Jason offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at interviewing today’s most driven minds. Whether you're a sports fan, aspiring journalist, or entrepreneur, this episode is packed with insights on storytelling, performance, and the mindset that drives greatness.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What is up, guys, Welcome back to Post Run High.
Today I'm here with Jason Kelly. He's the chief correspondent
at Bloomberg Originals and co host of The Deal with
Alex Rodriguez, also known as a Rod. This podcast is
all about movement. It's about learning how our guests move
through the world, how they build momentum in their work,
stay grounded in their personal lives, and keep growing through

(00:25):
every season of life. Every guest we bring on has
an inspiring story that we can learn from in a
real way, and Jason is a perfect example of that.
Jason has built his career by following his curiosity, from
covering Wall Street to Silicon Valley to the growing business
of sports. He's reported from all over the world. He's
interviewed some of the most influential names in finance and culture,

(00:47):
and now he's bringing us a front row seat into
major deals with some of the world's most accomplished athletes, coaches,
and more. Jason is not just telling stories, He's helping
people understand the four versus shaping our world, and today
we get to learn about him before we get into it.
I just want to say thank you so much for
tuning in. Your support means the world to us, and

(01:09):
if you're enjoying Post Run High, please do us a
favor and rate and review the show. Your support helps
us keep bringing you inspiring conversations week after week. All right,
let's get our Post Run High going. Jason Kelly, welcome

(01:33):
to Post Run High.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm so happy to be here. Great run, great run.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I am so excited for you to be here with me.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
So for context, guys, Jason and I just ran a
little bit over two miles through Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
I loved finding out that you're a runner.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
When I asked you to be on the show, I
had no idea that you had such a running background.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I love running so much.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Let's talk about it.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
I sort of fell into it, I guess, as many
people do, as a bit of an alternative.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I was a kid.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was going to high school in Texas, which I
spent my growing up year sort of between Atlanta and Houston.
I was going to high school in Houston, Texas the
same time as high school, and you know, the natural
thing is like you're going out for the football team.
My dad had played high school football, you know, back
in Atlanta, and I went I spent two weeks doing it,
and I hated it, but I also knew, just sort
of the way I was raised, like you should do

(02:22):
a sport, and the only other sport it was available
was cross country, and so I did it, and that
really started my love affair with running, and I ran
all through high school, ran cross country and track, and
I was fine. And then I went to college and
sort of like did the opposite of running. I was
basically sitting and working at the newspaper. And then I

(02:44):
got out of college and one of my very best
friends to this day, guy named Billy Robbins, ran a
marathon my wife and I went to watch him with
his wife, and I was like, I could do that,
Like I could run a marathon, And literally like six
months later, he and I ran a marathon together, and
I went on to run probably a dozen marathons, and

(03:05):
it really became part of my identity, I think, especially
when I was in my twenties and thirties. It just
it was really something I identified myself as. And I
loved the community of it.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I loved the ability.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
I mean, you have a whole show based on this,
the way you can get to know someone on a
run in a way that you you don't if you're
having a meal or having a drink or in a meeting.
It's just it's a very there's an intimacy to it,
and I think you can't sort of help but be authentic.

(03:42):
It's sort of like, I have two kids who are
college age, and I'm the millionth parent to say this,
but the best conversations you have with your kids is
when you're driving in the car, because you're not looking
each other, you're sort of looking ahead. And that's sort
of like with a run. I've sort of said things
and heard things on a run that I don't think

(04:03):
I would necessarily say face to face.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's amazing how you can foster such good conversation through
shared activity. And it's funny that you said the car
reference because one of the initial inspose for the running
Interview show that we just did was carpool karaoke. H
and I always loved watching that growing up, and when
we had the idea for the running Interview show, I
was like, there's kind of some synergy here between carpool

(04:26):
karaoke and not being face to face but kind of
running side by side or sitting side by side.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, can I tell you another thing that interviewer and
interviewer one of our little tricks that we use, especially
when we make our documentaries. In Bloomber Originals, I host
a show called power Players in addition to the Deal,
and almost always we try and get someone in a
car and we get them to drive. And actually, the
very first time I met not the first time I

(04:52):
met him, but the first really meaningful thing that I
did with Alex Rodriguez was an episode of this series
we did called Athlete Empire, And one of the things
we did is we drove from his house to his
high school, and we put cameras in the car and Mike,
we're both miked up, and he told me just some

(05:14):
incredible stories about what it felt like to be drafted.
He talked about his suspension, you know, he talked about
like real stuff. And I'm convinced it's because when you're
doing something else, you're your guard's a little bit down,
and so.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
You're a little more you're a little more willing to kind.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Of go there, especially when you're doing such a familiar activity. Yes,
Like there's something about running, especially if you were a
cross country runner growing up, that almost brings you back
in a way to those years where you know you're
running with a group of friends and you know you're
becoming friends with people that maybe you weren't friends with
outside of the cross country team, and just like connects
you in a whole new way.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Totally.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
I love it, I mean, and it's really it's a
way to really get.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
To know someone well.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Running you through Brooklyn was so fun.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
I just have to say, you have such an impressive
career and when I found out that you were down
to do the show, I was so excited. I found
out about you through watching your Paul Rabel episode on
the Deal with a Rod, and ever since watching that episode,
I found myself going down a wormhole and just being
so fascinated by your work and everything you do, especially

(06:22):
in relation to business and sports business. Before we get
into everything you're up to now, I want us to
rewind and just for everybody to learn your journey and
hear how all of this came to be.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I mean, I've thought a lot about how I
ended up being where I am, and the person I
give the most credit to is my mom. When I
was five years old, she signed me up for a
creative writing class, and I don't think I could probably
barely write, but I could think about stories. And that's
when I decided I wanted to be a writer. I

(06:57):
didn't know what that exactly was going to entail. I
was a bit of a corporate brat growing up. My
dad had a bunch of different jobs and he went
to work for Procter and Gamble right out of undergrad.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
I was born. My parents were really young, and so
I sort of like grew up with them in a
lot of ways.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
How old were you when they had you?

Speaker 4 (07:14):
My dad was twenty and my mom was nineteen, and
they were high school sweethearts, and so here I was.
And it was a really it was a really fun
childhood because I like my dad finished college while I
was a kid. He went to Georgia Tech, and then
he went to work for Procter and Gamble in a
little town called Jackson, Tennessee, and my brother was born there.

(07:37):
And then my dad had this really interesting moment in
his own life and career where he had been trained
as an engineer and he got into got interested in business,
and he applied to two business schools, University of Memphis,
which was half an hour away, in Harvard Business School,
and he got into both and he the way he

(08:02):
tells the start, I shouldn't tell his story, but I
will because it's sort of our story. His dad, his
late dad, said to him, He's like, whatever you whatever
you need to do. However, we can't help you with money,
but we'll help you however we can. You need to
go to Boston, and that like obviously changed the trajectory
of his career. And so we lived in We lived

(08:22):
in Boston for a couple of years, my parents, my brother,
and I. My mom, who's very southern, would tell you
we were poor as church miss And then we moved
back to Atlanta. My dad went to work for Coca Cola,
and so I sort of grew up in that millieu.
And I do think watching him through his career made
me interested in business. You know, I sort of had

(08:43):
this front row seat to one of the most dynamic
companies in the world, and you know, being the kid
of an executive there, and but you know, all the
time I was thinking, I'm going to be a writer.
I'm going to be a journalist. And I worked in
the high school newspaper. I went to Georgie, I worked
for one of the newspapers on campus there, and I

(09:04):
really thought I was going to be a political reporter.
And then I got a chance to go back to
Atlanta after college to cover the Olympics, and I wanted
to be I was so excited to be home. My
now wife, who I had met in college, was going
to business school down there, and I got a job
at the business newspaper in Atlanta, and I realized politics

(09:26):
was interesting, business was more interesting, and there were just
these big personalities and that as I looked around, and
this has been a theme through my career. Every story
is a business story, you know, whether we're talking about running,
or we're talking about Wall Street, or we're talking about
potato chips, like it's all everything comes back to business.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I think that's what's so fascinating about your podcast, The
Deal as you're talking to these incredible athletes and coaches
and people in the world of sports, Yeah, and it
does all fall back to business. And I think that's
one of the most interesting things about Bloomberg and the
work that you guys do, And through the context of
all these different industries that you cover, what would you

(10:16):
say are the components that make a great journalist.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Curiosity is absolutely the first. I think being interested in
other people in wanting to understand their stories, and I
think being willing and eager to be a translator and
to be an explainer. You know, one of the things

(10:39):
that attracted me to business journalism specifically was it felt
like there was a barrier to entry in terms of
it's like, ah, this is complicated and it's business and
its numbers and things like that. I was an English
major and a theology minor, Like, I have no business
training whatsoever. I've gotten a ton of training at Bloomberg

(10:59):
and Bloomberg when I joined in two thousand and two,
Like we literally had a month long boot camp where
I learned all about balance sheets and income statements and
the Bloomberg terminal and all of those great things. But
being able to distill those issues down in a way
that you know lots of people can understand is I mean,

(11:23):
what an amazing opportunity to be able to do that.
And I think it's a it's a language that you know,
we can we can help other people speak and uh,
and so I think that's so that's one component of
being a journalist. And you know that the curiosity pieces
I think obvious. I also think, as much as I

(11:44):
am currently talking, I think one of the greatest skills
is a journalist is to listen, and I think as
an interviewer, and you're so excellent at it.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Part of what.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Is a very powerful thing that I've just got as
I've tried to become a better and better interviewer is
listening to what the person is saying and maybe even
some of what they're not saying, and to think about,
if you're the audience, what would you want to know next,
and just to sort of go with that. And oftentimes,

(12:18):
and Alex and I talk about this a lot and
are when we're prepping for our podcast, which do a
lot of prep, but so much of it is about
just knowing the information but being willing to just.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Let it flow.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
When you are a journalist, I think the thing that's
so interesting is you get to talk to so many
people and learn so much through them about what they do,
and you almost become like a subject matter expert through
just having conversation. And I love that you said curiosity
and on one of our recent episodes, as we were
talking about this before we started filming, but I sat
down with Alex Lieberman, who's the founder of Morning Brew,

(12:53):
and we were talking about curiosity, and he was explaining
to me how he thinks about curiosity as a muscle,
and he thinks that there's ways that you can work
the muscle of being curious.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And so I'm curious about you.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Is there anything that you do that you think helps
you stay curious?

Speaker 3 (13:12):
How do you work your muscle of curiosity?

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Wow, that's a really good question.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I can give you an example of what he does,
and I thought it was so interesting. So he was
saying the way he works this muscle is he'll go
outside and he'll say, oh, there's a train.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
How does that train work?

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Who?

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I wonder who's on the train right now. I wonder
what they do for work? Or this cup, like why
is it designed like this? You know, what was the
what's the importance of the swivels or you know. Anyway,
So he's just kind of like looking at all the
things around him and thinking to himself kind of how
everything works.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah. I like that.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
I mean, I think, you know, I spend so much
of my time thinking about people, and I have a
I have a great editor I've worked with at Bloomberg
who who said to me as we were developing some
of our series a few years ago, especially around sports,

(14:03):
he said, I want you to create shows where you
understand what makes people tick, but never ever use the
term what makes people tick. And and I think a
lot about that. But I and I also think about
this notion of finding common ground with people, like being

(14:28):
curious about who they are and then looking for ways
that you can connect with them. And maybe it's you know,
you and I have a commonality around the sport of lacrosse,
you know, and so that like they're you know, your
brother's played, my son's played. I never played, and yet
I know a lot about it, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Very curious that actually about lacrosse.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
But but you know, when you find those things like
those are the those are the moments where candidly, when
you're in doing someone you need to get them to
trust you. And part of what I think we try
and do and the deal is to is to take
people into subject areas where they're comfortable but they haven't

(15:15):
thought about it as much. And so when we interviewed
Serena Williams, you know, I remember this this moment. If
I can be a little bit meta where we had
the benefit of like a ton of research. You know,
we have an incredible team who works with us. I
had done a lot of reading. I'd obviously followed Serena's

(15:38):
career very closely. Alex knows her really well. And we
were talking about her first deal, you know, we talk
about people's deals, and her first endorsement was with Puma,
and I had read in her book, in a book,
I believe, a book about her, her description of being

(15:59):
at the table, literally falling asleep at the table during
this this negotiation for her first deal, and I brought
it up and I said, you know, and I think
you fell asleep at the table. And she looked at
me and she goes, no, no, no, I passed out.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
She's like, I was so tired. But there was this if.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
You watch the show, there's a moment where I feel
like her body language changes and she looks at me
as if to say, oh, this guy did the work,
like he knows, like he knows what he's talking about.
Like I'm comfortable now, Like I'm gonna I'm gonna engage
in this conversation in a way that I might not
otherwise have because they're in it with me and I

(16:42):
think that and so that so the depth of curiosity
I think is interesting too, and your willingness to, you know,
really understand your subject matter as much as you can
and then be open to wherever they want to go.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
And I feel like Serena Williams is such a good
example if somebody you're so naturally curious about, especially if
you're somebody that's followed her career, which I feel like
so many of us have, even if we haven't followed
it so closely.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
And yet there's this whole element, you know, this whole
side of her that I feel like and this was
the huge opportunity that I feel like we had with
our show and we continue to have with our show,
which is, you know, people like Serena, people like Michael Strahan,
people like Magic Johnson, mean, they are unbelievable business people.

(17:25):
They have applied this playbook, this skill set that they
created as athletes to this whole other thing, to unbelievable success.
And so understanding how that translates is just is just
fascinating to me.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
And it's fascinating to sit down with the people that
have translated it so well, because there's some people that don't, right,
And it's so cool to see how some of these
people have created incredible businesses and careers outside of the
sport that they know exceled at. When you think about Bloomberg,
you think about finance and data, and of course we've
said that business applies to so many different things. I

(18:03):
know you've been at Bloomberg since two thousand and two.
When did you make the transition to focusing on sports?
And I know you focus on a range of topics, yes,
but when did sports become something that you were really
passionate about?

Speaker 4 (18:16):
I mean, I can I can track it back to
a very specific moment. It was the summer of twenty
twenty and recently, pretty recently, I had kept an eye
on sports sort of in my peripheral vision, in part
because I'd covered Wall Street for.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
A long time.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
And one of the things that I was seeing was
a lot of people that I had covered, private equity tycoons,
in particular buying sports teams and investing in sports. So
that was so that was sort of in my mind.
I had seen, you know, Josh Harris and Mark Lasry
and Tony Wrestler, you know, people that I had covered.
David Wlitzer, people who I had covered as just private

(18:55):
equity investors get into sports, and so you know that
the in the most basic way, business journalism is about
following the money. That's like at its core, like that's
what you do. And so that was on my mind.
But the really catalytic moment was I wrote a cover
story for a Bloomberg BusinessWeek and did a TV special

(19:17):
about Lebron James and Maverick Carter and their creation of
spring Hill, and it came at this unbelievably historic moment.
It the interview and the story just happened to be
the first time that Lebron had spoken publicly about the

(19:37):
murder of George Floyd, about Black Lives Matter, about COVID,
He talked in that interview about the death of Kobe Bryant,
you know, all these things that had happened, and at
the same time he talked about this incredible business ambition
that he and Maverick had and what they were building

(19:58):
at spring Hill, not just in the media company, you know,
his ambitions in business, and.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
That just.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Hit me as there is something really interesting happening here.
Because Lebron James is the most famous athlete in the world,
or one of them and has this ambition, and he's
not alone, and he's following in the footsteps of Magic Johnson.
He's following the footsteps to some extent of Arod. And

(20:29):
so I had the great opportunity, with the backing of
some senior editors at Bloomberg, to just go and start
exploring what we describe as this intersection of business, sports
and culture. And I think the end culture piece was
a really critical bit of it, because there were in
our people who were covering sort of the transactions, and

(20:51):
we do some of that as well. But I think
what sports does, and I think you appreciate this as
much as anyone is, it just hits so far above
its weight in terms of cultural impact. If you think
about you know, we're we're taping this just you know,
a few days after the MIxS have like lost the

(21:12):
you know, lost in the playoffs. I mean, it was
a like moment in New York, you know, whenever there's
like a big victory or a big loss, you know,
when the Yankees win the World Series, which they have
not done in a long time, as Alex's Payton to
remind us, you know, these are moments, you know, and
even you know, watching my son play college lacrosse.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's like all of the like sports just.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
Hits different and it and and I think that appreciation
that something meaningful was happening both culturally, but then also
the economics have just you know, exploded, and we sort
of got lucky in the sense that it really took
off from there.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And I want to tap into the culture topic as
soon as we start talking about your podcast a little
bit more in depth, because I noticed through listening to
the deal that you guys do do with such a
beautiful job of tying that in too kind of each
of the athletes or people that you feature on the show.
There are so many things that you can cover in
the world of sports business. How do you decide as

(22:17):
a journalist what to cover?

Speaker 4 (22:19):
I try and think a lot about what's new and
what's next. And we recently had Melody Hobson on our show.
It's an unbelievable investor, you know, Coco of Aerial Investments,
you know, has been on the just recently left the

(22:39):
board of Starbucks's on the board of JP Morgan.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
She's icon in business and.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
One of the things that she said, which is really
stuck with me, In fact, I mentioned to somebody today,
is this idea that she so she's created a fund
solely to invest in women's sports, and the way she's
framing it is women's sports is a growth stock. It's
a great you know, and that's how how they at
Ariel are viewing it. And so those are the ones

(23:05):
that are especially interesting to me. These you know, sort
of like high growth stories, a little bit of risk.
I mean, I think women's sports is an absolutely fascinating area.
We've we've been looking very closely at it for really
four or five years, and I do think anticipated, I
dare say, a lot of what has come in terms
of like the higher valuations and the big investments, the viewership,

(23:28):
the sponsorship, everything that's going on there. So those are
the stories that are super compelling to me. I think
the other the other stories are really and this is
what we try and do through the deal and other venues,
is understanding the why of you know, why this is
a big opportunity. You know, how a league came to be.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
You know, we talked about Paul Rabil a little bit.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
You know what a cool story he has of deciding
as a professional athlete that the best thing for his
sport is to create an entirely new league. What like,
how does that like, what's the what's the process of that?

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well? I even liked listening to Paul Raebel and hearing
him talk about how he's trying to make it a
sport that's more easily available for people even in like
the inner city, you know, it's making it like a
street basketball, like street lacrosse. Yes, I loved hearing that
part of it.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah, And so I think those the stories are most
compelling to me are the ones where people are pushing,
pushing a new idea or a new investment, or a
new market, or a new a new geography, you know,
creating a new league, you know. League one volleyball is
a really interesting one that we've that we've covered a

(24:47):
little bit. We covered on the Deal, you know, which
is one of the first leagues where there's they have
the youth all the way up to the professional within
this one league. So those, it's a story the most
compelling to me.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
I've interviewed a lot of female athletes for the Running
Interview show, and from people from you know, Olympic runners
to soccer players, basketball players, and the one thing of
course that all these professional women athletes are so passionate
about is the future of women's sports. So I'm curious
as somebody that has been doing a lot of research

(25:32):
on it and kind of stays on the pulse of
what's going on within the business of sports.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Where do you think women's sports are heading?

Speaker 4 (25:39):
It is one of the questions I think in sports
right now. The valuations are rising really fast. You know,
in the past year alone, you've had records just keep
getting set in terms of franchise valuations. So Angel City,
which is the women's soccer club in Los Angeles, you
know changed hands. Will Obey and Biger bought that at

(26:01):
evaluation two hundred and fifty million.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That was a record.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well then New York Liberty, which is owned by Claire
Wusai and Josi just raise money at a four hundred
and fifty million dollar valuation, So new record.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Based on those valuations.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Do you think social media has shifted the way women's
loves are being marketed?

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Totally?

Speaker 4 (26:23):
I mean, I think that so much of what is
happening with women's sports is absolutely fueled by social media,
both in terms of the teams but also in terms
of the individual athletes.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
If you think about.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
You know, obviously Caitlin Clark is sort of the uper
example of all this, but you think about Juju Watkins
at USC, you think about Hailey van Lyth, you think
about all of these athletes who have these massive social presences.
I mean, also, I think one thing we cannot overlook
when it comes to women's sports is the benefit that

(27:00):
changes in name, image.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
And likeness and IL have had.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
They I mean, obviously they've had a dramatic and profound
effect on college football and men's college basketball, but they've
had a similarly similarly profound effect on women's college basketball,
especially you know, Paige Beckers, who just came into the
WNBA this season out of Yukon, you know, had a

(27:25):
thriving and like very profitable and IL portfolio. Azy Fudd,
her teammate who's still at Yukon, her former teamate who's
stillt Ukon, you know, has millions of dollars in ANIL.
So I think that exposure and then the other thing.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I could go on and.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
On about this, but well I love that you can
go on and on about this, and I love knowing
also that you only just started diving into sports in
twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, you you have such a I love this stuff,
so much knowledge on the on sports as a whole.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
It's so I mean, and and I do think you know,
one of the things that is, you know, that is
certainly true about women's sports specifically, is the disruption across
the media landscape has made it so much more possible

(28:19):
for people to see things that they just didn't see before.
And one of the things that we've really seen when
it comes to women's sports, and there's there's a lot
of data around this as well. There's there's a great
group called Sports Innovation Lab out of Boston that's done
some great work about the fluid fan and specifically around

(28:40):
fans of women's sports. That it's demonstrated that when it
is put on air and we've seen this in the
Women's Final four, people watch it, you know. Yeah, I mean,
it is unbelievable, you know, And and that translates to
you know, women's basketball, College end Pro, the NWSL, which

(29:01):
is the professional woman soccer league you know, is seeing
just bigger and bigger numbers. And so what needs to
happen next, is it just those deals need to keep
happening so that people can see it and engage with
the content.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Do you feel like there's a ripple effect of the
NIL that we haven't seen just yet.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yeah, I mean there is. We're at a really critical
moment when it comes to NIL, I think because inevitably,
like if you were to google NIL and wild Wild West, like,
you would see a million searches come back, because that's
what everybody says it is and it's not wrong. There
is a settlement, not to get too technical about it,

(29:42):
there's a settlement coming between the NCAA and the House
of Representatives that is going to bring some measure of
order to how college athletes are going to get paid
and bring some guardrails to NIL. It does need to happen.
I think the question, I hope, showing my personal view
a little bit, I hope the question of whether we

(30:05):
should pay college athletes has been asked and answered. I
think we all should agree that yes, they should get
paid they in some form or fashion.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
A you know, the getting.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
Paid for the college education is a farce. And the
amount of money that's being generated, especially for college football
and college basketball, the amount of money that the schools,
the coaches, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Are getting on the.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
Backs of free labor, like that's that's patently unfair. I
do think there are more ripple effects. I don't know exactly.
I don't think anybody knows exactly where it's going to go.
I do think though, that we will continue paying college athletes,
and we should.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I mean, I feel so bad for the athletes that
made it to college on these big scholarships and then
get injured, and it's like they didn't even have the
opportunity to make a.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Little bit of change before not being able.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
To go pro totally.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
And the percentage of people who you know, really do
make it so small is infinitesimal.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
It's so small, so small.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
The reason that Livy Dunn and Paige Beckers and Juju
Watkins and so many of the other athletes female and
male are are getting paid is because they deliver, you know,
like people like, people listen to them, they buy the
products that they're selling, so you know that. I think

(31:35):
it's it's really important to note that, you know, State
Farm and Ally, I mean, those are two companies that
have invested heavily in women's sports. They're not doing it
that that's not charitable. They're doing it because they can
make money. And the big shift that's happened, really, I
think in the past three to five years is and

(31:56):
just about anyone who's deeply involved in women's sports will
tell you this, is that there was a massive shift
of team owners and investors who went from me like, oh,
this is really cool, like we're like supporting it, like
go girls, like this is great, to like, I want
to make some money. And the fact of the matter is,
and this is like Bloomberg guy speaking like that, when

(32:18):
people make money, like more people are going to pile
in because they want to make money. And that's how
businesses grow, and that's how women's sports is going to grow,
is people keep.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Investing in it.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
When you first started out as a journalist at Bloomberg,
what did your role look like then and kind of
how has it evolved now.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I'm glad.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
I'm glad you put it in that context because I
feel unbelievably fortunate to have had the career that I've
had it at Bloomberg. And you know, I came in
in two thousand and two in the Atlanta bureau, like
covering big, big technology companies, you know, writing about earnings
and you know, writing off of press releases and trying
to break news about Intel and Motorola and Texas instruments

(32:57):
and things like that. And you know, I do feel
like my career at Bloomberg where I've been. I mean,
I make the joke that I've written everything from a
tweet to a book.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
I've had the opportunity to write magazine cover stories for
multiple magazines that we've had. I've hosted television shows, radio shows,
you know, original series. I was our New York peer chief.
I wrote two books. I ran our live events business.
I mean, it is a It is a company and

(33:39):
a news organization that is deeply invested in innovation, you know.
I mean this is a company that was founded in
nineteen eighty one by Mike Bloomberg because he saw an
opportunity to bring transparency to the bond market. And so
that notion of like transparency but also so creating something

(34:01):
new like pervades everything that we do. And you know,
I think it favors and I would like to think
I'm an example of this. It favors people who want
to try new things. You know, I've been very fortunate
to be able to raise my hand and say I
want to try this, like I think there's something here,

(34:22):
even if it's like I want to write a story
or I want to go to this place and report
this out and see what's happening. I want to go
interview this person. One of the things we think about
and I think the Deal is a really interesting example
of this is that represents how we're thinking now, is
we need to meet people where they are in terms
of getting our good stuff to them. And so when

(34:46):
it comes to the Deal, it's one of the first
times we really can see something from the beginning as
it's a video show, it's a TV show, it's a podcast,
it's social, it's written, it's you know, distributed it however
you want to get it.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
It's going to be there for you, whether you maybe
sometimes whether you want or not, but and listen it.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
You know, it took a lot of people sort of
coming together to do that, but that was the idea
was and and we had never to my knowledge, done
a show where you know, we paired an external talent
with an internal talent I use that term loosely, you know,
a Bloomberg journalist and an outside expert to sort of

(35:30):
create a show, you know, like this and uh, and
so I think it speaks to our willingness to like,
let's try it.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
What I'm really getting from that too, from you also
as an individual, is it's so cool knowing how as
a journalist you've been able to tap into all of
these different mediums of storytelling. You're not just a writer
like you're a host, You're you're a camera facing journalist.
Did you ever think, like when you were writing for
the newspaper back in college, your high school, that you'd

(35:58):
eventually be sitting next to a Rod hosting a show
with him on camera just speaks so much to being
a curious person and being open to trying new things.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, thank you. I did not.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
I definitely did not, and I definitely have. I definitely
have had some moments. I was flying off to do
some interview for the deal and my college ades sons.
You know, we have a family, like every like every
family should. We have a good family. Text text Chane
and I said, you know, boys, I'm not gonna be home.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I'm going to be doing this and they're like, what,
you know, who are you interviewing?

Speaker 4 (36:32):
And I think it was like I think it was
actually season one and we were going to La and
I was interviewing. Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
We had in one day, we taped interviews with Maria
Shripov and Derek Jeter.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
I just watched the Derek Jeter one.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
It was great, which was amazing, and it was an
amazing conversation to see the two, you know, to see
Alex and Derek together. And and I I'm pretty sure
one of my sons that day texted back, this isn't
a job.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
And I can see the point like it. It often
doesn't seem like it.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
And it is really fun to get to talk to
people like that. And honestly, to you know, I feel
very fortunate to work alongside Alex. He's a great partner.
We you know, we've gotten very close, and I think
the best episodes are the ones where we really just
you know, we're in a flow.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
We're teammates and we're partners.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
First, I want to ask, you know, how did this
podcast come to be and what is it like working
alongside somebody like a Rod.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, so I had done.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
I'd done this series called Athlete Empire as part of
Bloomberg Originals, and and I had interviewed Alex during COVID
for you know, you know, we're all remote, we're doing
these remote conferences, and he happened to be coming in
a few months later, he happened to be coming into
Bloomberg for an in person interview, not with me, just

(38:01):
for Bloomberg Television, and someone flagged that he was coming
in and I was like, oh, go, say hi, I've
never I don't remember. I think i'd met him once,
like we had shaken hands years before. And so I
went into the makeup room actually, and he's like getting
made up, and I.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Was like, hey, I'm Jason. You know.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
We talked and he's like, hey, man, how you doing, Tore,
And I sort of just pitched him in that moment.
I said, I have this idea about a series on
athletes and their business ambitions. I really, you know, I
am intrigued by what you've done. I'd love to come
spend a couple of days with you in Miami if

(38:40):
you're a game for it. And he said, pretty much
on the spot, he said yeah, that would be great.
And he's like, and this is the way he is.
He's like he's thinking about it, like yeah, we could
do this, and I'll show you this thing and you
can come to the office and all these different things.
So we did that and then we just kept in touch.
He has an amazing chief business officer named Kelly Leferrier
and she lives up here in the Northeast, and so

(39:04):
she and I would get together, you know, like every
few months, just have lunch. And about three years ago
she called and said, you know, Alex and I have
some ideas about, you know, how you and he could
work together. You're going to be in Miami at all
and I happen to be going down for a speaking engagement,
and so we had lunch and we we started It

(39:28):
was it was as he was getting into his ownership,
his then minority ownership of the Minnesota timber Wolves.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
And Lynx, and so we got into that.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
We basically just like sit down and we're just like going,
We're just talking about like, oh and this thing, and
what do you think about this? And and he's asking
me like what have I seen with other ownership groups,
and we're just like rapping and he's like we should
work together, and I said, well, maybe we should. We
could do a show and we could do a podcast.
And he said, well, but what would the show be?

(40:00):
And I remember saying, I was like well, not to
be too like Seinfeld about it, but like this is
the show.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Like this is the show.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Like it's us talking and you know, we'd bring people
in that we know and talk to them about the
you know, sort of their business ambitions, like and you know,
and you would you know, be able to weigh in
with your experience and you know, I'm the journalist in
the room, et cetera. And he basically said, I love it.

(40:25):
Go back to New York see what everybody thinks. And
I did, and like a few months later we were
off and running, which again like sort of speaks to
Bloomberg's you know, willingness to be like, yeah, this sounds
like a good idea, and we trust you and let's
see how it goes. That one of the funniest things was,
I think we literally went through like two hundred and

(40:46):
fifty names for this, like we just like we couldn't
come up with something for the show, and you know,
they're like bad puns related to baseball and you know,
and then stuff that just like didn't really capture it,
and we like, but we can sort of coming back
to this idea of the deal. And finally there was
a text exchange where I think it was Kelly said,

(41:07):
I'm here with Alex. He wants to know like what,
like what do you want and like what do you
like the most? And I said, I really like the
deal and he's like, I do too.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Done.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
And what's funny about that is, I don't think we
realized at the time how much of a nice framework
the name gave us because, as you well know as
a fellow podcaster, a lot of podcasts out there, a
lot of deals and a lot of deals. But we
and we wanted something that would immediately say to people,

(41:42):
both the guests and the listeners and the viewers, this
is going to be a little bit different. Like we're like,
if we're talking to Michael Strahan, we're not talking about
we may talk a little bit about football, but we're
really going to talk about him as a businessman, you know.
And if we're talking to you know, Josh Harris, the
owner of the Washington Commanders in the Philadelphia Philadelphia seventy

(42:03):
six ers and more, but we're gonna talk about deals
like we're gonna talk and you know, and on that
episode we talked about the deal to you know, build
this unbelievable new stadium, in Washington and sort of what
it took to get that, and so it gives us
this kind of home base in a way to sort
of build the conversation around it.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
That's how it feels when you're listening and you know
you're gonna learn about a very niche topic about this person,
that specific thing, yeah, that you really don't get to
hear about in other interviews. Out of all of the

(42:46):
athletes you guys have been able to interview on your show,
who would you say is the most business savvy?

Speaker 4 (42:51):
I mean, a Rod is definitely up there. I would
say it's hard. It's hard to choose.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Straighthan blew me away. I think his.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
I think his approach it was interesting. So we essentially
did sort of back to back episodes around him or
sort of involving him, because we taped an episode with him.
And then he has a partner named Constance Schwartz Marini
who they created this company called Smack Together, and she
really had such a strong hand in making him who

(43:28):
he is. She's also the chief advisor to Coach Prime.
I mean, she's a force. And it's one of my
all time favorite episodes and it's actually one of our
best performing episodes as well.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Cons is.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
Michael's ambition and his understanding of how he could use
the platform that he had not just as an athlete,
but as an athlete in New York. I think was
so smart and so compelling. And he is also such

(44:05):
a nice and genuine human being, and so I think
I really was impressed by his depth of understanding, his
willingness to work hard, you know, very holistically. So he

(44:28):
is definitely He's definitely someone that I hold in high
esteem on that.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, And I like that you said his ability to
work hard, because I feel like that's.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
And I mean, you guys know more than anybody, but.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
I feel like that grit level is such a common
thread that you hear about that athletes have. And even
when I was talking to John Gray, I was asking
him who do you guys look for in a new
hire at Blackstone, And one of the examples that he
gave is he said, you know, I love hiring.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Athletes because they do what it takes.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
It's cool knowing that your sons are your sons a
college lacrosse player, because I know from experience with my brothers,
like it was such a good mark on the resume
to have that team experience, that background, because companies do
love hiring athletes.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
And I will tell you the thing that I and
so I'll take the first question in a slightly different direction,
which is I think one attribute, the attribute even beyond
working hard, discipline, goal setting, all of that that I
admire and appreciate so much, and I appreciate it every

(45:38):
day with Alex is coachability.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
And I think.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
The the the ability to take feedback constructively is an
absolute superpower and I see it with my son and
in his teammates. And I do think one of the
reasons that you know there is a very high percentage

(46:03):
of athletes who get to the C suite is because
they have a lot of those skills, and I do
think feedback is one of them. And you think about it,
it totally makes sense in that. I mean, I've watched
my son do this where he's on the field, he
makes a mistake, he comes off, coach gets in his face,
says don't do this again. And then he can't go

(46:25):
sit on the bench and like cry, you know, he
like he's got to He literally has to go back
out on the field and take that in and learn
from it immediately. And not and and then move on
and then and sort of internalize it and pack it
away and do it right the next time, you know,

(46:46):
if you think about you know, and Alex talks about
this all the time, like the number of times he's
struck out and then he's got and then you know,
probably twenty minutes later, he's got to go up and
do it again, and he's got to figure out, Okay,
what did the pitcher do last time?

Speaker 2 (47:01):
What I learned from that?

Speaker 4 (47:03):
What are my teammates telling me, What is my hitting
coach saying, what is my manager saying? You know, you
babble a ball like the next pitch is coming, like
you got to go? And that is an unbelievably valuable
skill in life.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Absolutely having that adaptability is so important.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
In your conversation with Serena, I found it so interesting
when she was saying that the advice her dad gave
her when she was younger was telling her that you're
not going to make the most of your money on
the court, You're going to make it off the court.
And I loved hearing about her first deal with Puma
and how there was something about a cat suit and
this whole kind of cultural phenomenon of what she was

(47:44):
wearing on the court and how that catapulted her into
almost like a different stratosphere of a player. So on
that note, I would love it if we could dive
into cultural capital and its impact on business.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
I think if I had to, you know, if I
had to tell the are it, I mean, what I
would say is she knew that she was doing something
important when she wore the you know, I mean, if
you google Serena Williams and Katsu like, you'll see you'll
see a million pictures of it. I think what she
realized and what's such an amazing lesson is the cultural

(48:19):
impact that sports and our sports, our top athletes have
on the broader world and how much they influence what
we wear, what we buy, what we think. And so
that moment where she essentially was her authentic self, she

(48:44):
changed the narrative about not just who she was, but
what the sport could be. What sport could be, you know,
in the in the broader conversation, and just the profound
influence that you know, people can have by the by
the choices they make.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
And you know.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
I think we love sports for those reasons because it
does as I, as I was saying earlier, it just
it hits bigger, it hits different. There's a there's an
emotion to it. There's a connection that we have to
our teams. You know, I grew up down South, and

(49:26):
the the deep emotional connection that people have to their
college football teams, the only the only thing that I
think is comparable is.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
English football.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
You know that, like the tribalism, the deep generational connection
to these teams. This notion that your very being sort
of rises and falls on the performance of this of
this club or this team is just amazing. And some
of that is unhealthy at times, but it's also oh,

(50:01):
I mean, what an amazing connection to have is that,
you know, I went to Georgetown thirty years ago. I
still rise and fall on Georgetown basketball, fall mostly these days,
but sadly. But you know, I think about those iconic athletes.
I think about you know, again with that experience, you know,
I think about how culturally relevant I mean, think about

(50:22):
the impact that Alan Iverson had as a player on
the culture on fashion, Like Lebron James isn't Lebron James
without Alan Iverson, you know, and you know, even the
coaches that we see. Now, not to put too much
stock in my alma mater, but it's like John Thompson
like completely changed the narrative about like who a coach

(50:43):
should be, you know, how he should treat his players,
what players should expect, what a school should expect from
a coach. I mean, the sports is just I mean,
this is this is why I do feel so passionately
about what we do, is because sports allows us to
connect in a way that almost nothing else does.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Part of what you just said leads me to your book,
Sweat Equity. You wrote an entire book on the booming
fitness industry for recreational athletes. Yeah, can you talk to
us a little bit about what inspired the book?

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah? I mean, what's funny? Is it? Really? It?

Speaker 4 (51:17):
It was encapsulated like in our Run Together, you know,
in that I mean that my inspiration for that book
was exactly what I was living in the exact sense
that you and I were running through Brooklyn. Of this
like this connection with another human being, this association with
being healthy and thinking about my mind and my body.

(51:43):
And then of course the business journalist kicks in and
then it's a question of like, oh, by the way,
I'm also spending a ton of money, like whether it's
like to go run a race, whether it's to go
to a peloton class, whether it's to go to Berry's
boot camp, whether it's to you know, Byron or Lululemon
or whatever that may be. And so the main conceit

(52:03):
of that book, which I think holds true, although I
would obviously you know, I.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Think true even more so it's becoming more and more.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Relevant, right, I mean, I would obviously write it with
different examples today or a few different examples. Although some
you know, like Lula Lemon has endured, obviously, Barrious boot
Camp has endured. You know, there's some things like color
Run that you know you're like, oh yeah, color Run, Okay,
tough mutter like that.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah, I mean people people do that in a way.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
So those were such a moment.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
I mean, those were like the beginning of fitness becoming
this thing that people identify with versus just being like
a part of their lifestyle exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
And that was and I do think and that was
really the like if if there's as they say in
the TV, like there was a log line that was it.
It was like how you know, exercise move from like
something we did to who we are, and part of
was even just the way we you know, the way
we dressed, the idea that you know, men and women

(53:07):
were you know, going grocery shopping in like the Lululemon
leggings or you know, showing up and talking about their
workouts and and all of those things. So it was
you know, what's funny is if I had to write that,
I've thought about this. If I had to write the
book over again today, I would have made it even
more experiential because I think so much of it was

(53:31):
about kind of what what I was seeing and living
and and.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
And people that I knew.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
And there was also this you know, really strong overlap
with the people who I was interacting with through my
work as a business journalist.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Because I mean, if you.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
You know, there are a lot of former athletes who
work on Wall Street. There are a lot of also
like endurance athletes, you know, marathon ors, triathletes, et cetera.
There's a there's definitely a vent diagram that's almost a
circle of like high achievers who you know, run marathons
and do all the endurance stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
My parents were in the triathlon, like cruise when I
was growing up.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
It's funny.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
I'm I'm in it a lot less now just but
I mean maybe I'm a bit of a cliche. It's
like I play more golf now more because I could
play with my sons, and like it's a whole new thing.
Like yeah, and part of it is like I was
looking for a new challenge and I wanted to to
do something and now I'm like that guy who's like
talking about golf all the time, which maybe I don't love,

(54:35):
but I do remember, you know, it's like my running
group and my running team and you know, and the
your your schedule.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I mean I remember just getting up.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
I mean my wife would would would WinCE at this,
like you know, getting up at like four forty five
five in the morning to like get in ten miles
before work because like I had.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
A marathon and like I really wanted to qualify.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
For Boston, and it was just, you know, I cared
so much about what I ate. I cared so much
about like you know, alcohol and you know all of
these things that were just it was so much of
who I was, and I certainly wasn't alone.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Were you able to pinpoint when the shift kind of happened?

Speaker 4 (55:17):
One of the big moments was I remember in the
eighties was living in Atlanta and watching my mom like
work out to the Jane Fonda, like the HS tapes,
and so that was sort of the front end of it.
And I think that as we got into the like

(55:40):
mid to late nineties was really when when it started
to it started to sort of become more and more
of the lifestyle. I think baby boomers had something to
do with it, But then you know, I'm gen X
and I think it was my generation that you know,
coming into the again late nineties early two thousands, like

(56:04):
started to run more, and then and then the and
then the next level up was really that boutique fitness
craze and you know, soul Cycle was such a moment.
And one of the things I write about in that
book is that I took from uh investor friend of
mine in Atlanta was this notion of like cheeseburgers and

(56:24):
cupcakes and that neither of which is especially healthy, which
makes it an even funny or fitness metaphor. But the
like cup I mean remember when like cupcakes were all
the crazy in New York stities like Magdellian sprinkles and
all these different things, like cupcakes were sort of a
fat like it was like cupcakes. My friend Alan Taylor,
who came up with this, like he would tell you that,

(56:45):
like with everything, like cheeseburgers are actually eternal. So like
yoga is a cheeseburger. Like people have done yoga literally
for thousands of years. It's sort of got big and
you know, sixties and seventies and it's still like it's
still you know, like deady State. Running is a cheeseburger.
Cycling is a cheeseburger.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
I love this analogy.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Soul cycle cupcake.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Soul cycles a cupcake.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
And like remember flywheel, you know, like you know.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Bar I think is a little bit of a cupcake.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
Like you you can pretty easily like separate them out.
And so so I like that. I mean that that
idea feels that idea feels enduring to me. I mean Pelotons,
I think a fascinating case study. I didn't write about
it a lot in the book because and this is funny,
I don't think I've ever really talked about this.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
So you got me, you got me on it.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Yeah, I intentionally didn't write about pelotons. So that book
came out in twenty sixteen. I intentionally didn't write about
it because I was like, this is not going to work.
I was like, this doesn't make sense. People aren't going
to work out in their home, Like that's dumb. I
was dead wrong, and then I was kind of right.
I mean depending on how you.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Look, like if you look at the it was like
COVID and.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
Exactly if you look at the stock chart, I was
dead wrong, and then I was right.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Having said that, I still have my peloton like in
my basement, I am pretty you know, I'm pretty.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Loyal to it. I use the exercise and things like that.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
So so I'm the jury is probably a little a little.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Bit out on that.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
I am still curious about it. It's funny.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
I I love Peloton. I remember during COVID, I bought
one of the bikes for my family. I spent like
all my money on a bike because I was like,
I'm going to be the chief like officer of working
out in this house, and we are all going to
be fit for stay and fit together as we're locked
in the you know, locked in this house in Connecticut.

(58:54):
I recently have leaned into at home workouts and I've
been like loving apps and being able to like not
waste my mind money on a boutique workout at at
you know, like spending forty bucks on a class, and
to have an app that.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I can just do.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I actually have been really enjoying, which is kind of
interesting because I was never one of those people.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
And I do think sorry, just last thought on that,
Like I think that's one area where I feel like
AI may actually be helpful, something smart enough that this
probably exists and somebody's going to like send it to
us after this airs, but like something that like can
take my data and be like okay, not just like

(59:31):
oh take it a little easier today, but like do
this workout, you know, and like based on like what
you've done over the past five days, like maybe don't
go for a run, maybe lift some weights.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
And I have hypertailored to you.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Yes, yes, And I do think and I guess what
I wrestle with when it comes to fitnesses and I did.
I believed in it when I wrote the book, and
I still believe in it.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Part of what makes people spend thirty five forty five
ffty bucks to go to classes like they want to
be with other people who are like their people, you know,
and millionth person to say that, you know, fitness boutiques
are the new bars, but go where everybody knows your name.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
The workout classes that all do are most like I
mostly do them to have a social experience with my friends,
Like I have a Wednesday night class that we go
to when we we have a group chat and if
we're all down to go, we go. And it's awesome,
good way to see your friends do something healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Exact experience protein shake afterwards.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Yes, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
And I do think with AI our experiences even you know.
I was talking about this again with Alex Leeberman the
other day, who's the morning brew guy, And he was saying,
what if you could get a newsletter kind of like
the presidential briefing that was tailored to you every single morning,
you know, sent right to your email. And now you're
having this like hyper personalized experience. And I think we're
going to get to that everything that we do. Well,

(01:00:54):
You've had an incredible career. You have talked to so
many fascinating people. I'm curious, what is one story that
you know kind of lives rent free in your head
that's your favorite interviewer story that you've ever told or covered.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
One that I remember, So same same series that I
first met Alex and was Athlete Empire, and I did
we did an episode about Steve Young, who I had
met like very briefly, and you know obviously had like
really admired as a kid growing up, and and had

(01:01:29):
also followed the fact like he had like he's a
legitimate private equity investor, like started a like real private
equity firm.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
And so.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
There's this great moment that I'll never forget where again
going back to the idea that we love to go
for a drive with somebody, So we we set it
up so that we we were at meeting in his
office and then we were going to drive down to
Levi's stadium where the forty nine Ers play and like
walk on the field with him and his co lead

(01:02:00):
Junior Bryant, who had played a notre dame and then
played with him at the forty nine ers, And so
we're going to talk about like you know this, you
know this intersection of business and sports. And so we,
unbeknownst to me, the crew went and like set up

(01:02:20):
the car and we go out and so we were,
you know, they're filming us. We walk out of the
car and we go to Steve Young's minivan and like
we get in the minivan and he looks at it,
and I was like, this is it this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I was like, I love a minivan. This is a
great ride.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
And he's like, listen, if you have a bunch of
kids and you don't have a minivan, you're an idiot.
And it was just like an amazing moment where I
was like, oh my god, Steve, you like this is
this is so cool, Like I don't know why that
one just like lives with me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
It's so real.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
It was so it was so real.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
And so that was one fun thing where I was
like I can't believe, Like I can't believe Steve Young
and I were talking about minivans.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
I always joke, by the way, I always joke with Jeremy,
my fiance, that a minivan is the Dexpex thing to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
A black Suv.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Oh, minivans are the best. Like I when we had
to like our minivan just like died a couple a
year or so ago, and we going back to one
of our shared subjects, we took that to so many
lacrosse tournaments over the years that we literally just called
it the Laxmobile. And when my lacrosse player son, like

(01:03:32):
when we had to retire it, he was like, rest
in power, Laxmobile.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I mean, it was just like it was so good
to it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
It's like a Honda Odyssey that had god knows how
many miles on it and probably you know, is ended
up in a Junkyard somewhere just based on like the
lacrosse equipment in the back probably ruined it forever. But
any case, so Minivans forever. I mean the deal story.
There have been some really some really fun, fun moments

(01:04:03):
on that show. I mean the Serena. The Serena one
was I think just epic because it was just so
it was just such a moment, and you know, sitting
with the two of them, I think definitely was a
pinch me moment. I do think sitting with you know,
sitting with Alex and Derek Jeter and talking about their

(01:04:26):
relationship and you know, having an open and honest conversation
about their aspirations and their memories and their friendship over
the years. You know, for a for a kid who
loves baseball, you know, to sit with these these two
sort of iconic guys and just kind of chop it up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Was pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Lastly, as we wrap it up, I want to ask you,
after twenty plus years of reporting, what is something that
you want everybody that listens to you, reads what you do,
watches you to take away from your work.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Wow, that's a really, really good question.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
I do think that I've been so fortunate in getting
to do all of these different things, and especially doing
what I'm doing now, It's like, I do appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
This is fun.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
This is fun, and I think sometimes we overthink it
and sometimes we don't stop and realize that what we're
really trying to do, Like in the business, especially the
business that I'm in right now, it really is about
connecting with people, and connecting with people is meaningful, and

(01:05:47):
we don't do it enough in this like hyper you know,
hyper click day and age. And I do think that
this notion of like, be kind, have fun, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Not always that serious. Enjoy what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
Like I have the great benefit of enjoying what I
do all the time. And so if I had to
have somebody to take away it's like, yeah, he seems
to be having a good time and and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
I love that, Like I like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Some of my favorite moments on the on the Deal
or when you know Alex and I are just like
cutting up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
And you can definitely tell how much fun you guys
are happening through just watching you do your show. I
was going to say, what would be your one piece
of advice for me as an aspiring journalist, but I
feel like you answered it. It really is just to
have fun and be yourself yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
I mean, it's funny, so I mean, again, this is
a little bit of a meta story. But like I
when I learned I was coming on the show, I
did email my friend John Gray, who had been one
who who who I trust implicitly, and I said, any advice,
and he said, be yourself, have fun. And that's like,
be yourself may be actually the most like distilled down thing,

(01:07:16):
and I think we just don't do that enough, like
be who you are like and it's a cliche, but
it's a cliche for a reason, because if you're not
who you are, like, everyone's gonna see.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
It, especially if you're on camera, especially if.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
You're on camera.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
And I do think that like one of the things
that Alex and I try and do is like we
are who we are, we know, we know who each
other are, and we trust each other.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
But the most important thing is like we ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Lastly, is there anything you want to shout out? Anything
coming up that we can be on the lookout for,
excited about.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
I mean, tune into the deal. You know, we're uh,
We've got some episodes coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
We have a great time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
Wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Bloomberg dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
You can't escape us.