Inside the Celebrity VC Boom with Marshall Sandman of Animal Capital

In this high-energy conversation, Marshall Sandman shares his journey from Goldman Sachs and WarnerMedia to launching Animal Capital with Griffin Johnson and Noah Beck. From having a Kentucky Derby horse named after him to investing in billion-dollar companies like Whatnot and Colossal Biosciences, Marshall dives deep into what it takes to succeed in venture capital. He shares details on the deals Animal Capital are involved in and how he's had the opportunity to help Paris Hilton, Tom Brady, Chris Hemsworth and so many more celebrities invest in startups. He breaks down why grit matters more than credentials, how cold outreach built his network, and why obsession is the key to building lasting businesses. This episode is packed with insights on startups, investing, celebrity partnerships, and the hustle behind turning bold ideas into reality.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, guys, Welcome back to Post Run High. I'm your host,
Kate Max and this podcast is where movement meets conversation.
Today's guest is Marshall Sandman. He's the founder of Animal Capital,
which is a gen Z focused venture fund that blends culture,
creators and capital in a totally new way. Marshall's background
is wild, from Goldman Sachs to WarnerMedia to now investing
in the next generation of world changing startups. He's also

(00:28):
one of those people who somehow makes business sound fun
and human. Right before filming the sit down conversation, we
wrapped up a long run and Marshall is quite the
runner himself, so you guys have to go check out
our running interview as well if you haven't seen that already.
Today we're diving into everything from what inspired Animal Capital,
to how he got his business going and how he

(00:50):
thinks about legacy, purpose and building things that matter. We've
got our post run High going and flowing. We're feeling good,
so let's get into today's conversation with Marshall. Love you guys.

(01:11):
Marshall Sandman, Welcome to Post Run High.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hi Kate, Hi, thanks for having me, Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
For being here. We just ran a couple miles.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's so freaking hot.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
This was our hottest run so far of the year
by far. Like I feel like we've had a pretty
good summer so far where it's been cool, but today
it was hot, humid, So we've officially entered the New
York summer running season.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
We're also getting to the point where you realize it's
New York summer because the streets are kind of empty.
Except I did almost get you run over by a
car already.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Today we were on the highway, but I was like,
at least we have this helmet. The first thing I
want to start off with is you have such a
good name, Marshall Sandman.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you very much. My childhood library and used to
sing me the song what's the song mister Sandman? Bring
me every single time I walked in, and it has
been I mean, I would imagine anyone with the last
same sand Man would end up getting that song to
them a lot. But yeah, the name Sandman's carried me
through a handful of things, especially this year.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I don't know the loure or the jingle of Sandman.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, the two big ones were inter Sandman was a
big is a huge Metallica song. Okay, and I'm trying.
I should know the guy's name, but there's like a
gigantic Yankees player that was his walkout song. So I
either got the inter Sandman or I got the Mister Sandman,
which is by the Cordett's sung to me, and that
was I would say that happens to me at least
five times a week. And I'm thirty three, So for
thirty three years, and.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
As of this year, you've got a horse named after you.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
We have a horse named Sandman. I tried to be
very humble because I genuinely did not believe that the
horse was named after me. As you kind of know,
I work with a kid named Griffin Johnson. Griffin is
one of our advisors to our business. He's like my
little brother. And we got approached maybe two years ago,
maybe almost three years ago, because the horse is three now,
to get involved with a horse racing team called West

(02:53):
Point Thoroughbreds. And it was a good good friend of
mine that I've known for fifteen years, and they really
wanted to work with a to amplify horse racing to
a younger generation, and of any celebrity they could work with.
They picked Griffin, which couldn't have gone any better, and
then shortly after they went to auction to pick the horse,
and it turned out shortly after the horse was named Sandman.

(03:13):
And I think that the owner, Terry Finley, who is
the greatest guy in the world, was trying not to
pump my tires or like blow my head up too much.
But eighteen months went by and I heard from somebody
else that had met with Terry. Yeah, like it just
made sense to name the horse Samon, Like we just
met Marshall. I loved the name, and we own a
small piece of the horse. And we competed this year
in the Kentucky Derby. It was a really like rainy,

(03:35):
messy day. It was not a great great day. But
then we came in third in the Preetness and had
a great day. And we're going to be competing this
summer again in the Jim Dandy at the end of
July and then in Saratoga at the Travers Cup, which
you were more than welcome to come attend. Is this
form this is a formal of the days. You can
either come to Jim Dandy, but I would you should
come to the Travers it's like the big It's like
a big race that's right behind Triple Crown in terms.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Of say say no more. I am a horse girl
through and through self proclaimed I never like grew up
with horses, but I had one trip to Wyoming where
we went to like a dude ranch or whatever they're called,
and like horseback riding every day and it was just
one of my favorite vacations ever. And now I since
love horses. Did you ever think you'd be as involved
in horse racing as you are now?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
This is the ultimate side quest that has become like
it's not quite full time job yet, but for Griffin
it has. I would say Griffin is the face of
horse racing today. If you watched the Kentucky Derby, he
had a twelve minute, a full twelve minute, did not
cut to commercial about his relationship with Sandman and like
him basically sleeping in the stable and him cleaning the horse,

(04:36):
and him traveling around with the hors and how the
connection that they've they've formed whatever, and even NBCs like
leaning into the relationship that Griffin has to the horse
racing community because it is it's one of the oldest
sports you know in the world. That has been broadcast
that people bet a lot of money on, and I
think Griffin makes it relatable to a much younger generation.
I've just been happy to be a part of his journey.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Absolutely, and I feel like amplifying through influencers and celebrity
is such a big part of what you guys do
at Animal Capital. Give us kind of the backstory, A,
how did Animal Capital come to be? And like, b
what do you.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Guys do on our way into COVID. I was working
at WarnerMedia time warned to become WarnerMedia. AT and T
bought the company. Everyone I'm going to get these numbers
all wrong, but there were thirty thousand employees of WarnerMedia.
Seventeen thousand were let go and the acquisition so well
more than half. I was very lucky to keep my
job when the entire rest of my team was let go,
let go or transferred, but primarily let go. I knew

(05:28):
that the end was sort of coming, and I got really,
really lucky because one of the folks that got let
go was supposed to give this big presentation on sports
betting to Randall Stevenson, who was like the COO of
AT and T. John Stanky, the CEO of AT and
T Mark Cuban Mary Meeker, who's like the most famous
female venture capitalists of all time, and he got like go,

(05:50):
And I had actually made the presentation, so I got
the opportunity to give it in front of this group
of folks. And I've ever told the story on camera before,
but happy to. So I gave this big presentation. I
was really young, maybe great was like twenty five, twenty
six years old.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Oh that's a compliment. I'm turning twenty eight in like
five days.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Oh, happy birthday, thank you. And so I think it
was Mary Meeker that ended up complimenting the CEO of
eight and teen saying that kid did a nice job,
like he seems a little young to be in this room,
but like, good job. My entire team got let go
over the following two weeks, and so that presentation literally
saved my job. And so it actually gave me an
extra like nine months to figure out what I wanted
to do, because there was no way my job in
like business development, venture capital, Warner Media was going to

(06:31):
stick around. That seemed like the first person that gets
let go in an acquisition, and so I really thought
about what can I do that's different than what everyone
else in the market is doing. And so at Time
Warner I had this opportunity, which was to invest in
businesses and then help them get integrated into this huge ecosystem.
And so anyone in the world would take a call
with me because they might want the help of Time

(06:53):
Warner and the ecosystem that we provide, and then the
ecosystem the AT and T might provide. But ultimately it
was very hard for us to execute on actually creating
a relationship between those founders and their businesses and our
gigantic ecosystem. The red tape was too thick, there was
too much of it, and so I thought I would
build a business that was entirely based on that concept,
and so I quit my job in January of twenty twenty.

(07:14):
We all know what happened about six weeks later. I
think it was January seventeenth of twenty twenty. And the
concept was really simple, I'm going to find a way
to get myself involved with founders really early, and I'm
going to do something so special for them that I
changed the entire trajector of their business. And the first
call it six to twenty four months of their existence.
I didn't know how I was going to raise money.

(07:34):
I'd never raised money before, I'd only written a handful
of checks before. But I had a sense of like
what I could do right, Like I'm an investment banker
from Goldman Sachs. I'd done a lot of business development
licensing work, I had written some checks. I knew how
to hire people. I've done a lot of hiring, and
I thought, I know what to do, but you know
who else might know what to do? Or or some celebrities,
because these celebrities at the times, especially as COVID hit,

(07:55):
were in the headlines constantly. For like, celebrities invested in
Poppy and that was like this huge six. But then
celebrities invested in all these creator economy brands, and I
know some of these folks. I'm not going to name
names of businesses that have failed, but that we can
think of very quickly, back and forth, fifty companies that
have come and gone to that space that celebrities at
some point use their name and likeness to support. And

(08:15):
so I thought, why not help them get involved with
businesses that they might not traditionally think to support. Why
can't we find businesses that are a little bit different
that aren't health beauty, I mean all consumers health and beauty, consumables, apparel, whatever,
because this is stuff they're already doing. They don't need
me to get involved with those businesses. And so I
reached out to three thousand celebrities. There was no open AI,

(08:38):
there was no chat GPT so I could. It was
all individually written notes, Instagram DMS or Instagram DMS. I
sign up for IMDb pro as an emails whatever, and
ninety people responded to me. And Griffin and Johnson and
Noah Beck were actually like two of the ninety people
that got back in touch with me, and a friend
of mine who were actually as a founder or his

(09:01):
name's kno Frail, but he helped for I always want
to shout him bat because helped forge the bond of
us and helped push them and have them trust me
to get into business with me. And we came up
with the Animal Capital and the whole concept was I'm
going to go raise the money, I'm going to find
the companies to invest in. I'm going to do the
risk analysis, I'm gonna write the check, I'm gonna do
all the back office auditing, financially, whatever, and all I

(09:22):
need you to do is show up for phone calls
and help these founders in the way that they want
to be helped. And early, early on business that we
always end up talking about as Colossal Biosciences. So it's
a business that said that they're going to de extinct
the boy mammoth, and very famously this year they de
extincted the dire wolf and they.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
And they're working on the Dodo bird.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
We are working on the Dodo bird, and we're working
on the Boy Mammoth. I will say we have eleven
dedicated science teams and those are just three of them.
The other ones are still confidential, but we're going to
keep having fun, fun announcements there. But it's a really
good example of a business that you might not on
its surface think how on earth are these slebriies going
to help? But we very early on got Paris Hilton
to invest in the business. We got Chris Hamsworth to

(10:02):
invest in the business. More recently we helped Tom Brady
to get invested into the business. And Griffin would get
on the phone with Bin Lamb when the business was
worth less than a thousandth of what it is worth today,
which is really freaking crazy, is less worthless than whatever,
it's less than one percent of what's worth now. And
he would help the founder really hone his pitch for

(10:24):
getting involved with those celebrities, like how does bringing the
dial wolf back, how does bring the boy man with
back benefit the environment? How does it make Paris Hilton's
brand better? And we helped him establish what his first
Instagram strategy was, and we helped him figure out how
like what the go to market plan was, because a
huge part of the story would be that as people
found out what we were doing, they had to know
that this is this is the best form of conservation

(10:45):
is not just what We don't just work on extinct animals.
We actually primarily work on conservation because tens of billions
of dollars are spent every year unsuccessful in conservation. So
we'd like to help it along. And so we help
get those celebrities involved with the business that otherwise they
would have never even looked at. And we've got dozens
of those examples over the years. I'm happy to talk
about any of them. But it's proved a real it's

(11:07):
created a real value for us, and I think it's
why James Corden is invested with us Paris obviously, and
Mark Wahlberg and we just did a really you had
a nice, big opportunity with Sophie Turner. So we were
together in London last week. And so there's lots and
lots of celebrities that want to get involved with us
in some way, but for us, it's about fit. And
most of our celebrities give you a stilly example, but
one of the defense'smen for the Capitals is his name

(11:28):
is Jacob Chittrin and he's amazing. But we've been friends
in chit chatting for five years and he just invested
with us this week, and so it's like we're really
just about the relationship. Like, you don't have to be
the most famous, you don't have to be the most charismatic.
You just have to be willing to work.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I want to narrow in on those early days when
you decided to leave your job and start Animal Capital.
I love knowing that you signed up for an IMDb
pro account. I did the same thing when I was
starting to book talent on my running interview.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
The hardest thing to do that people don't understand is
it's not you have amazing producers, an amazing team that's
sitting on the other side of the camera. But when
you don't have a following and you're trying to book guests,
oh my god, it is I mean, one in one
hundred is killing it.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
And let's paint the picture for people. Were you living
in New York at the time when you were doing
all this outreach and starting your company, Like, where were you?

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I was in New York and then I mean, then.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
You moved back to North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I got lucky, right, Like, I got a little bit lucky.
I COVID HIT and I packed up my apartment as
best I could, and I drove back to Raleigh. And
of course, as everyone thinks, I'm here for a week,
and you know, I ended up having less costs, but
the idea to leave was a lot more vague. And
I think that as I have the opportunity to tell
my story over the last handful of years, I think

(12:37):
I've made it seem like it's this streamline thing and
it's not.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
It's not. And I just love knowing, like I love
painting the picture of the fact that you were in Raleigh,
North Carolina reaching out to hundreds of celebrities a day,
just waiting for certain people to bite. They finally did.
You've worked with some incredible celebrities alongside you at Animal
Capital and with them for you know, different brands in
different industries. Like, what is something that you've learned through

(13:00):
traditional celebrities influencers that maybe you can't learn from a
traditional business person.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
It's exactly like what you make of it, Like it
can be a twenty four hour business, it can eat
you alive. That can also be a positive thing. And
so seeing I'll use Paris as an example, and I
think we talked about this for a second while we
were running in the gripping heat. Paris is someone that
works in her house, her whole team comes over. Her

(13:26):
husband runs a very successful venture capital fund. I always
joke that they're like my work mom and dad, Paris
and Carter. They've been extremely supportive of us, but they
work their asses off and they take every opportunity. And so,
like we were just talking about this before we turn
the cameras on, about like what choes you choose to
wear on cameras, what clothes you choose to wear on camera,

(13:48):
and it just goes to strike there's nothing that you
do during the day that you can't work your business into.
Sometimes that's healthy and sometimes it's unhealthy, but it does
open your eyes to how much opportunity there really is
out there. Or someone in a Griffin on another like
they've really taught me that, like how to integrate. And
so we've just talked about the horse thing and Sandman,
which is so exciting, and we're gonna hopefully you guys

(14:09):
are gonna come to Travers Cup at the end of
the summer, but we're talking about hosting a concert at
Travers Cup on the Friday the big races on Saturday,
and we also own a music festival business, and so
I'm thinking I'm gonna be there for the weekend anyway,
Like why can't I support one of our businesses. Griffin's
gonna be there so Griffin can host our party. That's
extra money for a business that we're heavily, heavily invested
in that we've got to it's called Breakaway that we're

(14:30):
like very very excited about. And then there's like a
big DJ and I don't know she'll be frustrated about
Carol on the name drop like like Xandra who just
was named one.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Of the top creators, and Andrew's been on the show.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Xandra's a huge horse girl, and so getting Xandra to
show up for that, like I haven't asked her. This
is literally gonna be the first time she's even hearing
about it, Like Zarre just somebody, Like I think, like,
why wouldn't I call Xandra? Like she works her butt off,
she'll definitely want to be at a horse event where
she can make extra money, at a concert where she
can enhance her DJ career, And so you don't quite
see that, you Like, you're never going to see that

(15:00):
at a Goldman Sacks or at a whatever, at a
big advertising firm or or somewhere else. There is going
to be a sense of like I'm going to get
done with my work and put it down, Like I
try to put my work down sometimes, but it just
doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
A lot of people talk about work life balance, and
I think, like, when you're a founder, you're somebody who's
like your work is such a big part of your life.
It's like your work is your passion project.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
You know you must feel that way.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I feel that way, yeah, And I love like I
love always working and always you know, it's like you
like you're the same way, Like you go outside and
you walk around New York and you're getting inspiration and
you're thinking about somebody that you want to contact or
reach out to, and you never know when ideas are
going to come to you. What was the first deal
you guys did at Animal Capital.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
It sounds dumb. It's a very successful deal. So I
feel silly talking about it, but we because people are like, oh,
of course, the first one you crushed whatever, and like
that's We have plenty, plenty, plenty of businesses that do
not exist anymore that we wrote checks into, and I'm
happy to talk about those two and ones. I thought
we're going to be absolutely killer. But the first deal
that we ever did was called what Not, which is

(16:00):
a live commerce marketplace. And so at the time they
had this little they had this teeny little office in
Santa Monica. They since moved to Venice Beach into a
monster whatever. We invested a fifty million dollar valuation, which
is way too big, like this business was. I mean
at the time, if they were doing a million dollars,
I would have been shocked. But it was a frothy,
crazy time adventure capital. And if you opened up their app,

(16:23):
it would be a live stream, and so it might
be U Kate selling Kip Chogi's running shoes from the
Berlin marathon where he set the world record, which is
these are the models of those shoes. That's why I
said in my brain, and people will live bid on them,
almost like QVC. And so the founder, Grant la Fontaine,
literally was like, I need more people to come live stream,

(16:44):
like I just had this one stream. So we had
some of our celebrities go go do that, and it's
how we got into the deal because everyone was clamoring
to get the deal. They love they love the concept.
That business was valued at fifty million dollars at the time.
It's now worth five billion dollars. So we're up about
one hundred ish x on our investment approximately, And that

(17:05):
was our very first deal. Very good when to go
out of the door. And funnily enough, this is actually
why it's a really good deal. Is my best friend
in the world. Her name's Dylan Sans. She worked at
journal Amantic, which is probably the best growth equity firm
in the world, and I begged her to come work
at Animal Capital. I took her on a walk into
a park and I said, Dylan, like, I love you,
You're my best friend, Like I need you to quit

(17:26):
your job and come do this with me. And she said, like,
I love you too, but definitely not like I'm not
doing that, like I'm making a bunch of money. I'm
at this unbelieve I'm at the gold standard of private investing,
Like why would I do that? When she saw that
I got into whatnot and she couldn't get into it
from her giant firm. That's actually led her to quitting
her job and coming to work for me. We don't
have like a formal internship program at Animal and so

(17:48):
the only people that ever interned for me, and my
first ever intern then became my chief of staff full
time out of college. She's now a principal at the fund.
Our current summer interns are all people that just wrote
me really thoughtful LinkedIn messages, and we don't do interviews.
We assign a project. If you do a good job
on the project, that's it you get, you get an internship.
You'd be surprised how many people can't, like won't just
do the follow through of like getting through that process,

(18:09):
like send a nice note that catches my eye, I
will send you the project and if you do a
good job, that's it is a it is a paid internship.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
We just talked about this concept with Alex Lieberman and
he had like a very he was so good at
like terminology, but he basically said that there's two types
of people you can hire. You can hire somebody based
on their resume or like based on potential, and like,
I completely agree and like from our perspective to like
much smaller scale, but production wise, if I'm hiring somebody,
I want to see like what they're capable of doing

(18:37):
for our team, you know, so I want to see,
like mock something up for us, you know, show us
what great looks like, show us how you want to
evolve our brand, you what is possible, versus show me
your resume, show me that you went to X, Y
and Z school.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
We talk about talent versus engine. And so we joke
with Sam who is our now young principle and she
just got a promotion she's very excited about, and we
joke that she was talent and like teaching her to
do her first job out of college was I mean
it almost killed me. Like the same way that we
chat about this on our run too, But like that

(19:09):
first job and sing in office, getting getting your butt
out of bed at six thirty seven o'clock, getting showered,
getting shaved, putting on like a nice outfit that like
you feel presentable, and making making sure you actually have
to go to it on that you that you've eaten,
that you're like put together, you're not hungover, which I
certainly was plenty when I was twenty two and twenty
three years old. Teaching her that part of the job
that you have to show up on time, like that

(19:31):
eighty percent is showing up like that's like not just
a dumb mantra, that's very real, was the hardest thing
because I don't have I don't have the infrastructure to
do that, and you don't have to tell me or
tell Dylan about our own business that we own to
show up like we're we're dying to start working when
we open eyes in the morning. The same way that
I know that you.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Feel that way, like it's hard to go to sleep
because you're always thinking about there that there's more to do.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think our our intern this summer, I would say,
we picked he's going to listen to this and be
like WTF man, but like we pick we picked engine,
Like we picked engine. He wrote a really thoughtful, like
amazing note and that's been wonderful. But like he has
learned on the job, Like he's picked up the pieces
that will make him look talented more than the other
way around.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's interesting, you guys work with and invest in a
lot of startups and early stage companies. What is like
one thing that they should be looking for in their
hires and in their employees that they should be hiring for, Like,
what is like one quality you can kind of pinpoint.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
It depends like where you are in your life cycle.
But like if you're really early and you're going to
pay someone absolute garbage, they need to be prepared to
get paid garbage. And so like there's some level of
like grit that comes with that that you can't replace.
And I know that's like a really weird thing to say.
It doesn't necessarily speak to someone's personally. I might speak
to like their parents wallet, or might speak to their
ability to be frugal, or their decision to live in

(20:43):
Long Island City versus the West Village. And like it
sounds dumb, Like all those things are very important because
like you need them to be signed up for a
journey with you, and if they're not, then they're not
and you can't teach that. And so people say this
all the time. To me is hire slow and fire fast.

(21:03):
I would say higher fast and fire fast. If it's
not working and they can't prove themselves quickly, will you
will see like that person, Like you could have someone
on your teams in like a mock up or like
a completely raw footage of like our run or our
podcasts and say, put this together, it's like how you
think it should be done. And if they put a
certain amount of effort in like you're going to know
very quickly get them on the team, like get them,

(21:25):
get them signed up, but get them bought into what
you're doing. And if it's not working, move on. There's
plenty of people that are hungry out there.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
As good as higher fast fire fast is for the
company itself, it's also good for the person you're doing
that person as service. If this job isn't something that
they're naturally thriving at or that they're excited about, you know, maybe.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
You have the wake up call. Maybe you have to
wake up all they needed it probably isn't people don't change.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
I think people do change.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think people can change. I think in that construct.
I think in the boss employee construct, that's much harder
than like us as human beings, like choosing to go
to therapy or you've got the David Goggins book on Yourself, Like, yeah,
I think that we can start changed, like in that
paradigm of employee. I think it's much harder.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
You're right, It is so interesting how work life like,
literally how you show up in an office or to
work is so different sometimes for people in their normal
everyday lives, which makes a lot of sense. But yeah, Like,
you can be a great person in life with your
friends and you be the kindest person in the world,
but then you get to the office and for some
reason you got a little bit of a chip on
your shoulder. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
I was the worst. I'm not joking. I was the
worst analyst in the history of Goldman Sachs. I think
it was because I could be fun with clients at
a younger age than maybe some of the other people,
and that was me being too comfortable.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Okay, outreach, what is your subject line for a celebrity?

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Oh? My god, I think I should go back and
look what's really funny is a handful of times. And
this has happened more and more recently. Celebrities I reached
out to that never responded to me. We've like ended
up connecting and so we'll like dam about whatever. Like
silly example. But I just went to go see Catherine
Gallagher's Peter Gallagher from OC's Daughter her show on What's

(23:07):
Off Broadway. It's called up all Night and it's actually closing.
So if I don't know when this is coming up,
people should go see its Great love off Broadly shows.
But she messaged me like thanks so much for coming
to the show, and right above the message was so
frickin embarrassed. It is a message from March twenty twenty,
like COVID's just hitting like me, No shame, gigantic message.

(23:28):
Hey Catherine right before covid, I saw you in I'm
going to lose the name of it. But the Alanis
Morris set Broadway show you were amazing. I'm thinking about
starting a business where we get celebrities a little bit
more involved in startups. It requires no money from you,
and I will only take up fifteen minutes of your
time and if you're not interested, don't worry about it.

(23:48):
So I tried to mar each out to three thousand people,
and I would say that most everyone got a personal message.
And I tried to spend a little bit of time
two minutes, maybe a very fast with like what their
content was. But I really had seen Katherine Gallagher's show
and it was the only time in my entire life
i'd seen a mid show standing like applause.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, was this on Instagram? DM?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
On Instagram DM.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah. I think that's the best way to get in
touch with people.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
You must have had the same experience for you reach
out to someone and then they eventually responded and they
see that you messages them and they're like being like,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I say, huge fan of you. Would love to have
you on my running show if you're up for it.
And that's kind of fun because it's like running show,
little challenge. But I do think best tips for outreach
keep it conversational, keep it short, keep it light, and
end with the CTA yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Two to three sentences maximum. And if it's taking up
any part of the screen where you're like, you're overwhelmed,
they're quadruple overwhelmed. To however you feel. And also like
people do see this stuff, and I know that that
sounds like crazy, but like think about like Griffin or
Noah whoever. Like some of the biggest folks that work
with us today were people that responded to my Instagram
dms and like great example from yesterday. But I went

(24:59):
to a meeting with the founder of Android to James
rich Miner, and he's an amazing guy. He's one of
our investors at the Ritz and Nomad and obviously in
the city, and I ran into Steve Aoki right when
I walked on the door. And Steve's wearing like the
crazy shirt with the animations whatever. We've never actually met
in person, but we've co invested in a handful of deals.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I'm picturing the two of you in like a revolving door,
just kind of dressing, and it's like slow moo and
Marshall and Steve Aoki.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Me being like an absolute past, like I keep chasing.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Him a rather, I'm not kidding, You're like running in
a circle like mice in a wheel or whatever.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
And so I walked over and said, hey, so so
so sorry to bother you a Marshall Sandman, like I
run an animal capital, like we've like almost crossed past
is hey, Like, I like I know who you are,
Like you messaged me on Instagram ages ago, and then
you ended up actually building that business. He had read
the message and like processed it and then I guess
seen my name a couple of times over the years,

(25:50):
and like I think that like solidified what might be
like a future maybe business. Like we took a selfie,
Like who knows if I ever see Steve Oak again,
But it was a cool moment. But the fact that
he related those moments to each other from like a
million years ago. Just seeing money like it does matter
and you never know when that hard work is going
to pay off.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
What I like about the dvok situation, Hey, a lot
of things here momentum. I think key is being shown
here right, Like I think what's so cool is you
started out just doing cold outreach. Now all of a
sudden you have people like Stevok being like, not only
did I see your DM, but I know who you are,
and I think what you're doing is cool, right, and
you're starting to have.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
It's like a crazy like it sounds dumb. I like
pumping my entires like I was pumped.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, it goes well, of course, it goes from outreach
to then inbound requests. I'm sure for you get a
lot of people that want to be involved in the business.
So you have to now say a lot of nose
to people that back in the day you would have
been probably like I would love to talk to you
and have you be involved. This is where like your
business model is so cool because it's a combination of
these very influential people that have a huge like a

(26:47):
lot of cultural significance, you know, publicly, but then it's
also backed by you guys, who are these smart business
people that like know where to take them, you know,
and it's it's like everything's a team effort, right, it's
always a wee And I think it's just you guys
make really cool team. But I think when it comes
to to like booking our show, like I credit where
credits due, Like I love interviewing founders and business people,

(27:10):
and I think that's because I come from a corporate background, right,
Like I worked in after Founder. I have a production company.
I've got two brothers twin brother works in finance, older brother,
older brother works in finance. Finance family really my parents
were like, what the is she doing with this tripod outside?
When I first started that, like, you're leaving your advertising job.
You work so hard for it, you know. So I
think for me, and I think like the people that

(27:31):
like like the show and follow me, they love founder stories.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
But to realize, like you you run a big business,
and this sounds them like we're sitting in a room.
You have several team members here, and these are all
folks that are here for you to make your day easier.
And also not about easier, it's about efficiency. Yeah, and
it's you know, have so much to do that Like
if you were to go back to how could you
ever go back to how you did it before?

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Well what I mean if you had to start if
you had to start over today knowing everything you know now,
could you do it? Could you go back to whatever
it was? Five hundred followers on Instagram and you bought
your and you bought a G seven X and you
bought a little can you bought you bought the mics
for sixty bucks on best Buy?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, I mean I absolutely could. I believe in the
power of starting over actually, and I think like whether
you get to a certain point where you know you
have a lot of success, Like I think every single
successful person has moments in their life where you have
to feel like you're starting from scratch again. And I
think you have to be able to go back to basics.
And I think I am somebody that's so foundationally gritty,
like I don't. I don't think you can out grip

(28:25):
I don't know you can, probably I don't. I don't
think a lot of people could outgrip me. Like when
I first started the show, I was doing the job
of like twelve people, Like I was filming, editing, not sleeping,
and also working my full time advertising job. And if
I had to do it again, I absolutely could. But
now having the team support that we do, it's it's
so incredible to try to create something that's like bigger

(28:47):
than just me, you know, Like I want my I
want myself to serve as somebody that, like my audience
can relate to and be like not Kate's not just
having a conversation with Marshall, we are you know what
I mean? And I think that's an interesting thing in
business when you think about animal capital and like some
of the brands that you guys invest in, what would
you say, Like when we talk about like a brand

(29:09):
surpassing just the creator the people that are, you know,
promoting it, there's.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Two pieces that one is the creator themselves at the
outset has to be obsessed with it and by the way,
the dumb common but it has to be a good idea. Yeah,
like we're we are past the point where it's going
to work because of who it is. And I don't
I don't you know, there's one person who I think
is controversial day, I don't mind saying it, Like like
Blake Lively started an alcohol, a canned alcohol brand. I

(29:38):
think it's a little weird to start a cand alcol
brand when your brand is that you don't drink like
that's a brand like which, by the way, great, you
don't drink like I don't drink very much like in
my household not alcohol's contuned, which is great.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
You can't be an animal drinking a lot of alcohol.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Some sometimes sometimes we're party animal and animal capital, but
it is it is a rare occasion. But it's an
interesting example where her husband started a gym business that
he obsessed himself with. The great example that everyone wants
to talk about and they will talk about I'm not joking.
For the next fifty years, books will be written about it.
Is George Clooney starting costame egos. George Clooney bought a
pickup truck. He always had boxes of costame egos in

(30:15):
the back of it, and he had a pop up
bar and he would bartend to every party that he
went to. Had when there were consumer events which are
like these, like big like Expo West, like whether they're
certain Patrick SCHWARTZENINGI ors they're serving his mash bar or
sabina late as they're doing the vegan cookie do or whatever.
George Clooney would be at those events serving shots of tequila.
It's like, oh my god, George Clooney is here. Of

(30:36):
course I'm gonna go buy some freaking tequila. Of course
I'm gonna put it on my shelves. You have to
be obsessed with it. You have to be obsessed with
it for an enduring period of time. It's not a
seasonal moment. It's not gonna be about the specific deliverables.
And that's something that we say to our founders they
get involved with celebrities all the time. Is if you're
working with a gigantic celebrity or even a small celebrity.
If they're hung up when it's this many Instagram stories

(30:57):
or it's this many static posts, or it's this many
snap tiles, you're already working with the wrong person. And
I know that you're you're gonna feel differently. Say I'm
in the room with this person. I have a deal
on the table. I got to take it. I'm giving
up these dollars, this equity, whatever, but this is my
opportunity because it's saving me this money, it's giving me
this next level. Creators can absolutely still start businesses. The
drive and the motivation and the relationship to it starts

(31:20):
with two things. One is it has to be a
good idea. One is you have to continue to be
obsessed with it. In three it might not be a
venture business. And this is something that I have a
feeling you and I are going to talk about way
outside of this interview for the rest of our friendship.
Is like it just because you can sell the product.
And the example I gave you this morning was my
friend Gaby Kno just started a fish purse brand and
it is like a gold plated fish and like your

(31:41):
phone barely fits in it. It is the least practical
bag in the entire world, and she cannot keep them
on Chelse.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I want one. I want one. I saw it on
social media the other day and I want one.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Shek af it's really cool, and she sold tens of
thousands of dollars of things, and she knows it's not
about taking outside funding. It's about what's my next great idea.
Her great idea for this was she saran wrapped it
in like a styrofoam contear, so it looks like fish
that you buy at the market. Great idea. That doesn't
mean that you need to go raise a intra capital round.
We've our mutual friend is your manager. Yeah, and he

(32:14):
sent me a deal yesterday. And I won't out them
because they're clearly out trying to raise money. But it
is a four wall concept around padel Paddle. I've never
know how to pronounce it. I think it's a great idea,
and I think they can make great money. That's not
a venture capital business. Just it doesn't mean to go
raise money from a bunch of people out of some
crazy evaluation. It means take the minimum amount of money
to get your product going, to show that people that

(32:36):
there's demand for your product and then go from there,
and so many creators lose track of that along the way.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
One of the things that I want to touch on
really quickly is just because I loved the comment is
you have to be obsessed with what you do. It's
so funny, Like I love when people have niche obsessions.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
One great example, I actually don't know how the business
is doing today, but it was this celebrities relationship to
it that it's something we would never invest in. It's
Kaylee Quoco from The Big Bang Theory, who's like adorable,
she's on the HBO show The Flight Attendant. She started
like a I think it's like a pretty high end
like dog Accoutremont brand, like fancy dog collar, fancy dog

(33:11):
poop bag hold or whatever. It was her relationship to
it that like intrigued me. Like I don't think it's
a high market, Like it's a high margin product that
like maybe there's a big market for but like the
replacement value, the opportunity cost is like it's really easy
to switch, and like I'm not going to keep spending
a bunch of money on a new leash or new whatever.
By the way, I don't know if you guys have
a dog, but once, once you buy a leash, I
don't need another leash for ten years. Like I don't

(33:34):
actually have to come back to your website for a
long time. But she's obsessed with it, and the business
is going to succeed because she's obsessed with it, and
she's going to keep coming up with like fun new
cute things and fun new reasons to come back to
the website and to buy the next thing, and so
like I'm disagreeing with myself right, Like I don't think
it's the best idea in the world. I didn't end
up investing in it, Like she will be successful because

(33:55):
she cares so freaking much.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, well, let's talk about this because I think what's
really interesting about you is you guys started in twenty twenty.
You've you know, seen a lot of seasons of different
types of industries popping up, right like twenty twenty two.
I always think about like the crypto boom, and you know,
certain things with like web what is it like Web three?
So let's talk a little bit about how the industries
you guys have been like hyper fixated on have changed

(34:28):
over the years, and maybe what you guys are currently
focused on and maybe certain industries that have always been
good investments.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
If something's trendy, like I'm almost inherently not investing in it.
And the reason why is I get really really nervous,
Like I get like anxious, can't sleep at night, nervous
that someone knows something about that industry that I don't
or is just hyper fixated on it. So why would
my check get into that business earlier? Why would my
be Like it's almost like a self esteem problem, Like

(34:55):
it's almost like like I like, why would I get
to see this business? Like I've run a pretty good business,
Like I should get to see the business at the
right time. Whatever. So we didn't their exceptions to all
these rules. But we don't invest in web three, We
don't invest in the creator economy. We don't we do
a little bit of consumer products, and we talked about
it that we at this point we do one a

(35:16):
year and we have to be basically in charge of
starting that business. And so we did that with Noah Beck.
We started EV's. It's been sold. It's been a great
story for us, Trey Kennedy's Basic Seller's Wine, which has
been awesome and we've got to I don't know when
this is coming up, but we're about to be in
a really exciting retailer. As Trey goes on tour, we're
pretty pumped up. And then next year we've actually already

(35:39):
picked the item. So like we don't even do really
do consumer There are some exceptions, like working with Patrick
on Mosh Like that's a good point of like Patrick
and his mom are so obsessed with the product they
just make it work. So I would say find industries
that you believe that you know more about than the
common person. And so we've been pretty fortunate to be

(36:00):
involved in, for better or worse, in animal oriented businesses.
Our first animal into business was Colossal. We invested at
a twenty two million dollar valuation in the business is
now worth ten point four billion dollars.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That is so aligned for you guys, being that your
name is Animal Capital.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
That's also why the William Mammouth was our second animal
for a fund. But we actually love to get you
a animal capital hot and like along the animal lines,
like I'm very fortunate. I have a cousin who is
a very successful pet supply retailer, and I've made him
talk to companies about Okay, we invested in a consumer brand.
This is me bucking my own trend that I just discussed.
It's called Sundays for Dogs. They were going to spend

(36:37):
five million dollars in a really early fundraise, and I
made them talk to my cousin and I called him
and I said, hey, his name is Britt. I love him.
He's the best. And Britt, they're going to spend all
this money on building their own factory. Why are they
doing this? And he said, there's a huge problem in
dog food today, and it's that they have the same
allergens as humans. But your dog food and my dog
food from two different brands, and this one says it's hypoallergenic.

(36:59):
Whatever the hell, it's gluten free. It's this bison meat,
chicken meat, whatever. It's actually being made right beside the
one that has chickpeas in it. And my dog's allergic
to chickpeas and my dog's gonna end up going to
antaflactic shock. So building their own factory really early is
a huge bet, but it's one that could really pay off.
Sunday's for Dogs when we invested, was doing about six
and a half million dollars of revenue. This year they'll

(37:20):
do more than ninety million bucks, which is great. We
invested in a pet pharmacy called Mixed.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Lab, So you guys do a lot of animals, so.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
We've done a disproportion amount of animal and i'd an
animal towards life science. We were invested and like, great example,
this is a really sad story, but we invested in
a dog stem cell business called Gallant and the founder,
Aaron Hirschworn, passed away in a surfing accident, like a
really young guy, a dad in Florida. And the business

(37:47):
has pivoted sense to being a cat cancer research business
and they've actually been very successful. And when I say
I have nothing to do with that, that is luck
like thank fucking goodness, like part of my language, like
that's great that they found a great person to go
work on the business. It was a really sad moment.
And we've just had this disportion turned towards life science
as we're invested and over a dozen life science oriented

(38:11):
businesses over the last six years. And so it's for
us that's an industry that we know more about and
we know and we know how to make that business commercial.
We know how to get you from zero to your
first contract. And that's where most of these businesses die
in the vine. Is it's a great idea. We met
with a business last week that we're not investing in
called Kangaroo, and they're a artificial womb business. And when

(38:34):
I tell you, I know more about artificial wombs because
of Colossal than like then.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I had a dream about an artificial womb the other day.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
We can talk about that with your fountains, see if
that's something that you guys will be interested in. But
I probably know more about artificial than ninety nine point
nine percent of the population because of our investments. And
I was able to ask questions on the call that
make me maybe this is too confident, make me believe
that I know more than somebody else about it. And
I have a lag up in choosing to invest for
not investing in And so I'd say get obsessed with something.

(39:03):
I think how you started the question, like, get obsessed
with something and you will find a way to invest
in that thing. These are all businesses, right, Like there's
people that have made a bunch of money in the
Great economy. Jelly smacksmen, This unbelievable successful. There's people that
make so much money and web three and crypto, and
there are people that make money on the stupid trump coin.
Like who knows what you can make money in, But
if you were obsessed with it and you're paying enough
attention to the industry, you'll find a way. And for us,

(39:26):
Dylan and I really have like the sectors that we've identified,
like she comes we work around together, and Goldman together,
and short of General ANAK and then a consumer fund
called af and I was obviously a Warner Media. I know,
I'm talking really fast. I'm trying to screw it.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
You are so good.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, So we have our own industries that we cover
and then our principal stam like as a computer like
data engineer, it's like we just try to focus on
what we know best and then if we don't, we
just move on and that's okay, Like that's really fine.
We recently invested in a business called Array Labs and
they are a modular camera since they gets attached to satellites.

(40:01):
So the same way that SpaceX is big thing was
we're going to reuse the rocket. That's a business and
people for a long time are like, why do I
care if we reuse the rocket and it's honest right, like,
I don't know, but now we know why and we
know how important is that these satellites are equipped appropriately whatever.
This is allowing satellites to not have to come down
to get reequipped with new cameras. Wow, it took us years.

(40:25):
Probably took me three years of warning about this before
I found the right business and thought like I knew enough,
and so you just can't rush and you have to
be comfortable walking away when you don't think you know enough.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
You know, what's so interesting about your business too, is
you guys work with so many companies and you're constantly
learning about so many different companies and what they do
in their business models and kind of the why behind
the business. You just like you have in your mind
such a robust like knowledge of all these different industries
and you know all these like random things, which is fascinating.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I am, I know, like two sentences worth about every
industry and five sentences worth about next to nothing, right, Okay,
other than the artificial womb.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Time check me so that I know how much time
you have loved, I definitely have to scooch. Okay, Okay,
you meet let's take one final question. Okay, what we'll
do two final questions. First one is what is the
biggest mistake that founders of startups make when they're just
starting their businesses.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I think hyperfixation is the biggest. I would it's almost
a personality trait. And by the way, that's something that
I would I am just getting to know you, but
I would say that we probably both suffer from that
a little bit. We will have founders who are unbelievable founders.
And this is a real conversation that happened in the
middle of the night two nights ago. I did not respond.
I was dead asleep, but one of our founders sent

(41:43):
me like a screenshot of I don't know what you
call it, when they basically have like a wireframe of
their of their app, and they were freaking out about
the font and okay, I'm not joking, freaking out about
the font, and I was like, who cares? Your app
doesn't work? Like no one's using the app, We've made
no money, you're spending money, You're not sleeping, like you're
becoming inefficient in this moment, But that actually happens all

(42:06):
the time. We have a business that recently sold and
they actually it was successful issue. We didn't make any money.
We just about got our money back. But like we
invested five years ago, I wrote them a check, a
very high risk check. Getting my money back is not
good enough. That one of their founders was hyper fixated
on who their first advertising partner would be. Who cares.

(42:28):
I get it. It's a value signal. But you need
the money so that you can extend the runway of
your business, so that we can stay in business. So
I think hyperfixation is something that you almost need to
counterbalance yourself with with your business partner. And when you're
starting your business, it can be your parent, right, it
can be your mom, it can be your dad, it
can be your brother, your sister. Like making sure that
you've got a priority list and saying I'm going to

(42:49):
get through these things and if I don't get through
these tasks and this period of time, I'm going to
move on. In the realities is you know this, you
have to do a million jobs during the day. I
have to do a millionaire jobs during the day. The
thing that differentiated me at Want to Media. Part of
the reason I got to keep my job is because
I was still the person that knew the chief strategy
officer or Warner Media. I knew what her coffee order was,
and I had her calendar, so I knew when she'd
be in the office and when she wouldn't her Like

(43:10):
disgusting sugary Starbucks was on her desk. I was like,
why fire that kid, Like, it's not my money and
my disgusting sugary Starbucks is on my desk. Great hyperfixation
is probably the thing that are founders because they are
high functioning human beings that they get most lost in
it too, finding a way to regulate yourself.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, And I think also that comes down to like
delegating tasks and hiring the right people.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
And impossible for founders so hard.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I mean I do the same thing, Like there's definitely
a time Mikey is like, kid's gone hyper fixated on
fonts before you know, and then it's like you don't
see the big picture, and it's like you have people
in your corner that are like me not for no, seriously, though,
I'm like hyperfixated on the books that I put up there.
If you could leave our audience, whether they're creators, fans,
are as hiring entrepreneurs with one key takeaway? What would
it be?

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Don't be afraid to take whatever the risk is that
you've been thinking about for a long time. Of course,
you want to be measured, you want to think about
your own personal financial and family situation, whatever. But I
see so many times people with the idea and even
with the drive, and it is that risk of losing
something that keeps them that that holds them back. Maybe
I'll inspire one person to make that big change. I
don't know. I think the other big key takeaway, and

(44:14):
I think this is your takeaway, and it's a really
really special one is get hyper fixated on something.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
But not too much.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Get excited. Get niche about an industry, get excited about
a topic, Get excited about a type of business or,
by the way, a type of person or a geography.
That's the economy we're beginning to evolve into is and
we've talked about this before in our lives, but it's
the niche economy. And so getting excited about something, even
if you're not becoming maybe you are becoming a content

(44:44):
creator and you're listening to this, Maybe you want to
start your own business. Maybe you just want to go
to a startup that like, actually you still can take
a salary and a little less risk, but like get
excited about something and whatever that is, that genuineness will
shine through.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
I think the one thing that creators in general always
think about is kind of the next chapter, right, like
where do we go after the brand deals? Or like
we're making a lot of money through brand deals, where
are we investing that money? Right? I think this is
something that a lot of creators think about.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
I is a phone call I get every single day.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
So what is your advice to creators or even people
in a position of maybe they get a bonus at
their banking job. Where should we be investing our money?
And what do you think is the next chapter for creators?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I think taking risk is super important. Stock market, bond market,
all things that are nice. Those are things I'm not
really here to like sit and talk about. You can
go get a financial advisor with as little as five
thousand dollars and you'll have someone help explain to you
this is organ with your stocks, is we're going to
do with your bonds? You're going to be super risk on.
Maybe they'll help you make eleven twelve percent a year
and you can start really small for me, Like my

(45:49):
biggest thing in my first year Goldman, I ran up
a gigantic credit card bill. Gigantic because I wanted to
live this New York life, but I couldn't afford it.
Beyond my first year, I started to save money, fortunately,
and I forced myself to put I think it was
like one thousand dollars a month away. It's not tremendous.
I was really proud of myself, even like my parents
were proud of me for putting a little bit of
money away, and that started to become the thing for creators.

(46:13):
I would say, you do need a financial advisor, you
one hundred percent do, but you also need to go
out and take some risks because your financial advisor is
really incentivized for you to be de risk. There are
incentivice you take as much of your cash and put
it at no offense to any of these places ubs, JP, Morgan, Goldman, Sacks.
They want to keep your money there, that's fine, that

(46:34):
is their job to do that. They will help you
grow your money a little. But I would say doing
I don't know, five to ten percent of your money,
depending on where you're on your life. In venture of
five percent of your money in real estate, and then
you can think about the rest being a little bit
safer bets. And if you're a career out there and
this is a conversation that you want to have, I
am not giving traditional financial advice. I am just speaking

(46:54):
for my own experience. I'm not a regishort investment advisor,
but I am happy to talk about it with you
and share stories about what I've done and how it
might have worked. If you are everybody else on planet
Earth and you don't have that same concern about like
I have an eight year creator life and then the
rest of my life, save money and make sure that
you have like anest eag and whatever that means to you.
That means something different everybody. And then beyond that, invest

(47:16):
in what you're interested in. Get informed about something niche
that you get excited about, and write a really small
check and see how it feels. You'll start to get
better at it quickly.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Thank you so much for sitting down with me today, Marshall.
This was incredible. You are the best. Everybody. Go check
out Animal Capital.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Thank you so much for having me. I have so
beyond look forward to this, and it did not disappoint.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Thank you so much for listening to today's conversation with
Marshall Sandman. I hope you guys love this conversation as
much as I did. I definitely left this chat feeling
inspired and just ready to get after it with my
own business. And if you guys are loving Post Run High,
it would mean the world to me and my team
if you could leave us a review, share this episode

(47:55):
with a friend, and follow us on social at Post
Run High and me at Kate mag I will see
you guys next week. Let's go have a good day. Bye.