Lucie Fink's Journey From Refinery29 to Running Her Own Media Business

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to Post Friend.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. Today's episode feels really special because it's with someone
who has been one of my biggest inspirations in this industry,
Lucy Fink. Lucy was actually the very first creator I
ever followed. Back when I was in college. I was
totally obsessed with her show Try Living with Lucy, and
I always admired how positive, creative, and relatable she was

(00:26):
and what an incredibly talented storyteller she is. In this episode,
we really got to know Lucy her journey from starting
out in advertising to becoming a creator at Refinery twenty
nine and eventually building.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Her own brand.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
And Lucy's path felt especially full circle for me because
I also started my career working at an advertising agency.
So I think you guys will hear just how much
we related in this conversation. Lucy has so much knowledge
and wisdom to share or from navigating the highs and
lows of building a career in the creator space to
being so open about her personal life. She is truly

(00:59):
one of the most genuine people I have ever met,
and I cannot wait for you guys to.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Take it all in.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Before we jump in, I just want to say I
love hearing your ideas for the show, so please follow
me on Instagram at Kate Max and send me a
DM with your dream guest picks for the show. All right,
let's get into today's episode with Lucy Fink. Lucy Fink,

(01:28):
welcome to post run high.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Thank you. I actually am like starting to feel the high.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Are you okay?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Great?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, we just ran a mile. How are you feeling
it's hitting?

Speaker 3 (01:37):
As I said in the run, you know, I don't
think I've run a full mile since the mile run
in high school. I'm so not a runner. I'm very
not into cardio. But it did feel good and I'm
starting to zing. Oh, I feel maybe a good choice.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Host rind zing.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
I love that I have a new podcast name for you.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I am so excited to have you here.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
We'll get to why I am such a big fan
of you, but first I just want to say.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
You're a mom of two.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
You have a nine month old at home and a
three year old, and you're also a businesswoman. You run
your own company. You've got so much going on. What
does movement look like in your life right now?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Honestly, if I didn't do any form of structured working out,
I'm getting enough movement in the day because just moving around,
like from the moment I wake up to when my
toddler goes off to school or now camp, it is
a marathon. Changing my nine and a half month old's
diaper is becoming so hard, she's like flipping and navigating

(02:35):
and it's like an Olympic sport to pinner down and
change the diaper. And then now living in the suburbs,
we have a staircase, so I'm going up and down
all day. I have a garden outside, so I'm going
in and out, and then there's just like a lot
more walking and movement happening in my day to day life.
So I don't feel any lack of movement. But I
do have a virtual trainer who I work with two
times a week and we just do body weight stuff,

(02:58):
just an hour of like Monday will lower body, Friday
will the upper body, and just mixing it up and
doing some easy weight stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, I think people underestimate how heavy babies are, and
like it really is a lot of work, even just
like lifting them up throughout the day and bringing them around.
Not that I know from personal experience of having a kid,
but from holding friends.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Kids and yeah, family friend's kids. I'm like, damn, this
is kind of a kind of And it always got.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Much easier with the toddler because there's just so much
that you're doing for them, like getting him dressed, bending
down to put the shoes on, bending down to get
his cup and bowl to serve him breakfast. I mean,
I try to make him do as much as he can.
I try to have this motto of I'm not doing
anything for you that you can do for yourself, although
it doesn't actually work because.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Milo is being treated like a full on adult. Isn't
that funny?

Speaker 2 (03:49):
How Like my mom always says when you your first
kid very quickly becomes like an adult. As soon as
you have another kid, it's like they seem so much older,
so much more mature.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
He seems like ten. But yeah, the truth is it's
not really functional to let him do that, because if
I was like, you can brush your teeth, you do it,
he would just stick the toothbrush in his mouth and
let it sit still. And I'm like grabbing his face
and scrubbing. So I do need to do things for him.
It's a workout, and like the whole nighttime routine, doing
the bath time and the chasing the round, putting pajamas on, reading, running,

(04:20):
playing It's it's a sport.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well. During the run, you also talked about how after
having Mi low you leaned into weightlifting. Let's touch a
little bit on leaning into weightlifting, why and kind of
what it did for you.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. I was feeling super depleted after nursing him for
nine months. I was at my physical lowest weight, you know,
I was going through hair loss. I felt like all
my nutrients were coming out and going into him, which
was great for him. He was like this big, chunky,
plump baby, and I was like withering away. I eventually

(04:56):
was like I have to stop nursing, partially because of that,
partially because he had teeth and was biting and pulling
and that's not fun. And I was like, I need
to start doing some sort of workout that's gonna build
muscle and make me feel physically adept at the things
I want to do. I had this trainer who I
had worked with in the city, and I was like,

(05:16):
had moved to the suburbs relatively recently, and I was like,
I'm going to still work with you virtually for me
if I don't have a trainer or someone who I'm
showing up to be with. I just won't show up,
Like I won't show up for myself. I probably won't
show up with a friend. I need someone who I'm paying,
who's like, I'm here for our sessions, and you paid
for this, so you need to come. And working out
was just not a part of my upbringing. It wasn't

(05:37):
something I did in high school or college, so I
really only got into it once I started making money
and spending it on it, and I just started doing
the basic weight training activities, Like a lot of it
is body weights. Otherwise I'm using those handheld ten pound
weights and we're just doing like a lot of squatting,

(05:58):
arm stuff, bicep thing. I don't even know how to
describe it. I'm so not in the workout world, but
it makes me feel strong, and when I miss a
day of it or a week of it, I can
tell because the next workout is so much harder.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I mean, I love holding myself accountable by paying for
a workout.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
That's so funny. I'm literally what you said. I probably
wouldn't show it for a friend.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm picturing you in the city, like your friend being like, Lucy,
are you coming, And she's like on the West Side
Highway waiting for you, and You're like.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
It's just like so funny.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I wish.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
I've always wished that working out is fun for me,
But when I go, if I go to a class,
like those spin classes used to just be miserable experiences
for me. And the only classes I really loved when
I was in the city were yoga classes, but mostly
when we leaned into the restorative flows, not really the hot,
steamy yoga. If I ever did that, I just I

(06:49):
don't know why. My body like shuts down and I
feel like I'm gonna faint. If I'm you saw me running,
I'm like jrudging along, I'm sweating, I get a stitch
very quickly. So I try to lean into the workouts
that are more functional movement focused, so that they're helping
me with the actual movements I'm doing in my life
and not just burning calories.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
This show is all about movement, but not just physically.
We love showcasing people that show how movement, whether it
be physical, emotional, or mental, is so instrumental in leading
like a successful life and like the power of people
that just keep on moving and keep on going and
kind of the success that that breeds, and you are

(07:31):
such a great example of that, and on the show,
I love just getting to know people's stories and learning
a little bit about the human behind the content and
just a little bit of background. But I have been
following Lucy since I was eighteen years old freshman in
college and I always loved your Try Living with Lucy
and Lucy for Higher Content series And I actually have

(07:53):
a funny story, but one of my core memories is
I DMD you and I remember being like, I just
want to do her and see if she'd be open
to like an informational call. And I was like an
intern working at a marketing company and I remember dming
you and being like, she is never going to respond,
and basically I just wanted to find out what it
was like working in social media because I had a

(08:13):
little bit of a video editing background, and I dmd
you thinking you would never respond, and then you answered,
and I remember like screaming and being like, oh my god.
And then I never responded because I was like, wait,
she actually can We'll get on a phone call with me,
Like this is crazy.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I was going to say, I don't remember talking to you.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
And it was funny.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I was trying to find because that account is no
longer the account that is like the Kate Max account,
and I was trying to find the message that I
can read it to you, and I just can't find it.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And I deleted it. You were so alarmed.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
I probably did. I probably unsent it immediately.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh that's so funny. Well, the truth is I got
a lot of messages like that back in the day.
Still do. Honestly, these days, I'm a little bit less
accessible to just hop on a call with anyone now
with my life being busier, you know, a mom. But
back in my refinery days, I loved the idea that

(09:05):
I was going to be able to answer people's DMS,
and I really prided myself on responding to people. Times
have changed, and I've actually made it now so that
people can't respond to my stories unless I'm following them back.
And I just had to do that for my own sanity,
because people were responding to every single thing I posted.
It was not only like the standard positive or negative responses,

(09:28):
but there were questions that I felt the need to
answer every single like I joke that I would literally
post a photo of a white wall and questions would
come in of what color is the paint on that wall?
And I would have I would feel the need to respond,
and I would spend so much of my free time.
Anytime I sat down on the toilet, I was like,
let me answer DMS now, And it was eating up

(09:50):
my life, and so I for my you know, someone
else maybe would have just been like, I'm just going
to stop and let them pile up, but having an
inbox of twenty thousand was so stressful to me, so
I turned it off.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, and I think that comes with time. Like I
think when I had.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
First reached out to you, you were at the beginning
of your career at Refinery, and we're going to get
to everything that you were doing at Refinery twenty nine.
I think it's like whenever any creator starts out online,
Like I remember, I used to respond to every single
message I got as well, and now it's and then
you and then you literally just don't have the time
to and you physically can't. But yeah, I appreciate it

(10:25):
with every DM that weekend, and it's amazing to have
people that want to know, like color white, and it's.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
So fun for people to I mean, I'm speaking for myself,
but it's fun for me to talk to young in
aspiring creators or people who want to do something similar.
I feel like I have so much info and insight
to give them, and I want to have that connection
with them. It's just at a certain point, there's not
enough time.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Absolutely, well, it's so full circle though, for us to
be sitting down here right now.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Guys. Now, I have Losey on my show What the
heck did?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I didn't have the confidence to get on a phone
call with her then, but she's here now.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Sto. I love studio.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
But let's walk it back. So you grew up in Westchester.
You went to Scarsdale High School. Shout out, scars Out Scarsdale.
Tell us a little bit about growing up in Scarsdale
and what young Lucy was like.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Scarsdale is a very affluent town. I was surrounded by
people whose parents were doctors and in finance and lawyers.
My dad is a radio host, so I always came
from this media music background. I didn't personally have an
interest in going into the music space, but I grew
up going to the station with him. Sometimes I would

(11:35):
record PSA spots or ads and would go to shows
that he was MCing and I got to see up
close him interviewing and met a lot of celebrities when
I was young, and my mom's an interior designer. She
was a stay at home mom our whole life. I
grew up. I have an older brother twin sister, and
we grew up in a home where we really weren't

(11:56):
being pushed to go down those traditional paths. I actually
wanted to be a doctor on my own.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Accord.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
I discovered TLC's a surgery story at a young age.
I used to go on YouTube and type in live
C section birth and just like watch the blood spew
on my own and I love that. And I always
thought I wanted to be a surgeon. I was in
love with Sanje Gupta when I was young, and I
was like, I want to be a brain surgeon on TV.
This is I think. I always also knew I liked

(12:27):
the media side, but totally wanted to be a doctor. Yeah,
I was like, does Johns Hopkins have this major? I
did go to Johns Hopkins, and part of that was
because I wanted to be a doctor. Sorry to backtrack.
Also was the president of the drama club in Scarza
High School. So had these two competing or conflicting interests.
Do I want to be a doctor or do I

(12:47):
want to go into media, And I sort of left
it to fate. I was like, we'll see where I
get into college, We'll see what programs they have. And
getting accepted to Johns Hopkins and just loving the school,
I was like, this is obviously a medical university. So
I went there with the intention of studying neuroscience. I
was a pre med, you know, neuroscience major. As a freshman,

(13:09):
went in started taking all the classes to be pre med,
and also simultaneously went into the admissions office my freshman
year and pitched a YouTube series and was like, I
would love to host this travel channel style show about
the city of Baltimore and show prospective students how cool
the city is. And so I was always doing the
two things. And then it wasn't until kind of mid

(13:31):
freshman year I was like, I'm really loving and enjoying
these neuroscience classes, but I'm starting to see what my
life will be like and what my future will look
like if I go down the medical route. And I
just don't think I'm destined for a lifestyle stuck a
in a hospital or like inside, but also schooling for

(13:54):
ten more years. I was like, I just want to
get into the world, and I just want to start
doing things and stuff I was doing extracurricularly for Johns
Hopkins became my true love. I was like, making these
YouTube videos and running around the city meeting people and
putting these stories together is truly what I want to
be doing full time. Hopkins did not have any sort

(14:16):
of broadcast journalism major, so I couldn't go down that route. Also,
I didn't really want to be broadcast journalism. I always
knew I wanted to be doing lifestyle video content like
what I'm doing now, but that just wasn't a thing
in twenty fourteen when I graduated. So my first job
out of school wound up being at Ogilvie and Masor
in advertising, and I was like, I'm just going to

(14:37):
go down the production route. I'm going to throw out
for now my dreams of being on camera because I
don't exactly know how to get to the on camera
role I want to be in. I don't want to
host the news and be like reporting in front of
a burning building. And I also don't want to host
e news and be on the red carpet. I don't

(14:57):
know anything about celebrities, so I was like, I just
think I need to go down the creative production route
and see what happens. And I had an incredible experience
at Ogilvy, where I was working in production behind the scenes.
I very much could not keep my mouth shut there
about wanting to be on camera and wanting to do
on camera stuff. And I would show Johns Hopkins clips

(15:20):
to everyone I met. As I told you on our
Run too. I was on The Today Show a handful
of times in college, so I would show my TV
appearances to people. And I ended up having one meeting
at Ogilvy and Mayther with the head of Ogilvy and
Mayther North America, the chief creative officer. She invited me
into her office. I was like the lowest down on

(15:41):
the totem Pole job, and she invited me in to
just meet her and pick her brain. And it was
not a job interview. I already had the job, but
I fully treated it like a job interview. I went
in there being like, let me show you all the
things I've done and just brag about myself for five minutes,
and I put everything out in front of her. I
could see her energy towards me shift from like the

(16:04):
moment I walked in, when she was like, okay, just
another young person who wants to pick my brain to
by the end of the five minutes in there her
kind of lighting up, being like, wait, this girl is creative.
We should figure out what we can get out of her,
we should figure out how to use her. And nothing
really came out of it right away, but a few
months later she became the COO of Refinery twenty nine,

(16:26):
and that's how I got brought over there. Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
And for a little bit of context for everybody listening,
Ogilvie and Mather is an advertising and public relations agency.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
It's one of the biggest ones.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
And I used to work in advertising as well, so
I like knowing that you have a little bit of
that background. Also, I wasn't on the production side of things.
I was on the account management side. But advertising awesome
place to start your career. And I love knowing that
your coworkers really fostered your creativity and that the woman
that became the COO of Refiner twenty nine brought you

(17:01):
with her and was like, I see talent in her, Like,
I think that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
She could clearly like see the passion.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
And I think like this is a moment also to
give advice to anybody listening that is at a point
in their career where maybe they don't feel like it's
the end goal for them and they know that there's
something more. What do you think people should be doing
that are in similar shoes that you were in?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Well, I think you realize in the working world that
everyone is trying. Everyone's kind of looking around. This is
maybe an unfortunate thing to say, but everyone's sort of
looking around for who could help them, and whether that's
you know, a really creative person to bring on their team,
or you know, someone that's just going to help them

(17:43):
in their pursuit. And I realized early on that by
sharing what your skills are and being really vocal about
what you're good at and what you can do and
what you want to do, and planting that in other
people's heads, that's when people are going to start to
think of you when it's their job to do something.
And so when this woman went to Refinery twenty nine
and all of a sudden. Her job is to build

(18:05):
up the video team. Her reaching out to me, she's
thinking like, I want to look good here. I'm the COO.
I need to find the best people for this. But
for me, it's like you're giving me the dream opportunity
of a lifetime. And so I guess not being scared
to share your skills and share what you want to
do and say it to people and showcase. I always
tell people use your social platforms as a portfolio of

(18:27):
what you do and what you can do, because when
it comes time for someone to hire someone to do
the job, they want to see that someone's actually doing it,
someone actually has the capabilities, and you need to have
work to showcase.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
For Yeah, it's like you never know when somebody is
going to remember you and call on you.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
And it's kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
This is a different story, but just a fun one
I think for everybody listening is I interviewed Henry Golding
like about a year ago and he was the main actor,
the lead in Crazy Rich Asians, and his story was
that he was some sort of talk show host or
like game show host in Malaysia and somebody met him
at a party and said, this guy has like this

(19:09):
crazy it factor. He's got the face, he talks in
a very posh way. And years later, when they were
casting for Crazy Rich Asians, that woman that he had
met at that party was I think like the head
of the accounting department for the movie, or some sort
of person on the finance team. They couldn't find anybody
for the role. They were having trouble, and she was like,
I know this guy. I met him in Malaysia. He
has a little bit of on camera experience, no acting experience,

(19:31):
but I think he's our guy.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
And you know, they finally called on him and it
changed his life.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
So it's kind of like it's so important to always
put yourself out there and tell people what you want, because, yeah,
you never know.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
When they're going to call on you, and sometimes it
can take years.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
So what was the timeline for you from going from
that meeting and then joining refinery.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
She must have moved there three months later and then
six months later. I was there so quick. Yeah, it
was very fast, and I think I was at Ogilvy
for less than a year, Like it was my first job.
And when I got the job at Refinery, they were
able to offer me the same salary not a penny more,
and I was just I remember comparing the two offers

(20:18):
when this girl, when this woman contacted me to tell
me that she was moving to Refinery twenty nine, which
she you know, she told me she was moving there
months before she called me to bring me there. But
when she called me and told me she was moving there,
I remember her saying, I just wanted to call you
to tell you I'm leaving. I'm going to Refinery twenty nine.
Do you know what that is? And I was like,

(20:38):
is it a clothing store? I think I was thinking
of Forever twenty one and she's like, no, it's a
media company, Female Focus. It's kind of like BuzzFeed for women.
I was like, I've never heard of this company in
my life. I wasn't. I don't think I was in
the super hip Brooklyn scene. And it was very much
a Brooklyn brand. Even when I started working there in
the Financial district, all of the office were named after

(21:01):
Brooklyn streets. And I just remember I didn't know anything
about it, and I called my parents to talk about
should I move from Ogilvie to this company? And even
though they were offering me a way cooler job, and
the same salary. It took me a little nudge to
It wasn't immediate. You know, I'm out of here. I

(21:21):
really had to think about it because it was twenty
twenty five. No one knew what was about to happen
with Refinery twenty nine and the digital video space and
Snapchat no one knew, and so in my head I
was weighing, do I stay at this one hundred year
old ad empire that to me felt like an amazing
job out of college, or do I go to this

(21:42):
startup that no one's ever heard of and start being
on YouTube, which, like to me, YouTube didn't even seem
that cool. Then I was like, I want to be
on Facebook. I want to be on the site, like
I didn't want to be on YouTube, but they stuck
me on YouTube and it became the best place to be,
and I just I thought about it a long time
and I was like, you know what, it's the same salary.
If nothing else, it's a cooler, younger brand and the

(22:02):
office has green juice, so that'll be fun. Like I
thought it was cool on Hip and I could never
have predicted how much money was about to be poured
into digital video and the way the world was going
to shift.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, and then you ended up taking the job and
it changed your life.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yes, I mean I can relate to that to leaving
a job and going to something that's a little bit
smaller and not knowing what it's what's going to happen,
or if it's going to work out. And yeah, getting
a job at Ogilv and Mather is like getting a
job at Goldman Sachs. When you work in finance, you
know it's one of the top firms. It's where everybody
wants to work.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
It's also worth mentioning when I was at Ogilv, I
actually got my start building my social platforms before Refinery
twenty nine, and not as an on camera influencer. I
got my start by creating stop motion animation videos. I
remember your stop motion that was like og days I
was working at Ogilv, I there were a few days

(22:57):
where I didn't have anything to do, and I picked
up a camera and went into one of the conference
rooms and started animating a little piece of candy on
the table. And I had no idea what I was doing,
but I just remember thinking, like, clamation this must be
how they do it. What would happen if I took
five hundred pictures and then I put it into iMovie
and strung it out and made each frame point one seconds,

(23:18):
like it will look like this marshmallow was moving on
the table. And I edited this video posted it everyone.
I put it on my Facebook and my Instagram, where
I had like only people who knew me following me,
and people were like, this is so cool, and I remember,
I just fell in love with it, kept doing it.
Would come home every day after work and just go
buy something like a donut or a pizza slice and

(23:41):
then animate it in my apartment, and eventually my whole
Instagram feed was this art portfolio that I was just
doing for fun, totally for fun. This was my metamorphosis
into starting to monetize this. So I started posting all
this content. I just had like boatloads of fifteen seconds

(24:04):
stop motion animations on my page. This was at a
time when Instagram could only accommodate fifteen second videos. So
I was making these little clips posting them to a
point where I infiltrated everyone who knew me in real life.
So every single person I ran into was like, oh,
I've been seeing your little animations like someone even asked me,
are you wearing an invisible glove and moving stuff? And

(24:24):
I was like, no, it's stop motion, like you ever
seen Wallace and Grommet, Like this is clamation And I
started doing it, and eventually someone in my circle it
was like my brother's friend's sister's friend was does that
make sense? I don't remember who was. Yeah. She was like,
I'm working at a small I work at this small company,
and we're looking for someone to make a campaign, a

(24:47):
fifteen second video for a Mother's Day campaign. How much
do you charge for these videos? And I was like,
charge I do this for free, Like this is just
my side. I have a job at Ogilvy. This is
my weekend gig. And she's like, okay, well can we
pay you to do it? I call my mom. I'm like,
what should I charge for a fifteen second video? And
my mom has no idea. We're going back and forth.

(25:07):
Eventually I'm like, one hundred dollars seems good because that's
like fifteen dollars a second, Like I don't know, that
sounds good to me.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, and it's a lot of lunches.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah exactly, And she I tell her, you know, I
could do it for one hundred dollars. Thankfully she looks,
you know, we're like talking in person. I was like,
I think one hundred dollars and she is like, we
have five hundred for the campaign if you want that,
and I was like, sure, I think I want that.
So I took it for five hundred. I made the video,

(25:39):
I posted it, and then the next week I get
an email from a random small brand in the UK
how much do you charge for these videos? And I
was like five hundred and they said okay, and I
did a few of views. I just kept being like,
my rate is five hundred. That just stuck in my head.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Some brands were like, we only have two hundred, and
I was like, okay, I want to do it or
I don't, and others were getting up to my five
hundred rate. And then I just had this epiphany one day,
what if I just double it? What if I just
say the rate is a thousand? Like who knows?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
And at the time, you're still working at Ogilvie, yes,
And were you in the videos at all?

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Or was literally just like objects?

Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, it was just objects.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Oh my god, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Continue it was just like their products. So you know,
the UK brand was a business card brand, so they
sent me a whole box of their business cards and
I made this like business card house that collapsed. I
worked with Parmaham making Perducto skewers that just like built up.
I was learning so much about brands and working with brands,
so for example, that Parmaham brand, they sent me the

(26:39):
product and told me what to do, but like we
did not have a creative brief, we didn't have a
call with Now when I do a brand deal, it's
like there's a million rules. Don't do this, do this,
don't wear this, where that this. I just made five
videos for them on this like marble slab of like
berjutto and melon and whatever, and I shared it with

(26:59):
them and were like, I'm so sorry, we have to
scrap this because in Italy marble is the bathroom, not
the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
So your first time getting brand pushed.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yes, they were like needs to be on wood and
I was like, okay, well I don't think I can
mask this marble. Like I didn't have the technical skills.
So it's just I learned so much and I eventually
doubled the rate to a thousand and then one day
I get an email in my inbox from soul Cycle.
They were like, how much do you charge? We're doing
a July fourth campaign for some new merch and we

(27:28):
want a stop motion thing on our feed. And I
was like, you know what, soul Cycle has to have
more than one thousand dollars. That's like five people taking
a class is one thousand dollars. So I need to
not low ball myself here. So I tried a new
tactic where I was like, how about you let me
know what budget you're working with for the July fourth

(27:50):
campaign and then I'll let you know what I can do.
And they took some time, and then the woman emails
me back and she's like, hey, Lucy, I'm so sorry.
Our budgets are so tight for this campaign. We only
have four thousand dollars. Is that okay with you? And
I scream. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is four
times my rate. But I responded back very casually and
I was like, I think I can make it work

(28:11):
for four k. Thank you. Not to say my new
rate became four k, but it just was showing me.
I was really inspired by this other stop motion creator
who I don't even need to say her name, but
she was like a professional stop motion artist who I followed,
and I remember hearing from someone at work that she
did a fifteen second vine for Pepsi for twenty K

(28:34):
and I was like, this is valuable. Brands are looking
for this content. Now everyone's doing stop motion, but it
was like before it just was getting hot in commercials,
and I was like, this is good content. Brands need this,
So I'm just going to start asking brands their budget
before I give them my rate. And that's really how
I started. And throughout my whole time at Ogilvie, this

(28:55):
stop motion side business was paying for my rent. It
was just like a side hust so that covered my
apartment in the city while I made my income from Ogilvy.
And then when I moved to Refinery, they part of
the reason that they hired me was that they saw
that I had the stop motion business, and I remember
the head of video at Refinery twenty nine saying to me,

(29:15):
we'd love to use your stop motion skills for our
brand partnership. So then once I got to Refinery, I
was doing stop motion content for Oreo and like huge
brands for Refinery and Unfortunately for me, it was never
me getting an extra fee. I was just like a
salaried employee. But I did get to work with a
lot of great brands.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
It's interesting that you say this.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
I love knowing that story because I had no idea
about the stop motion past of yours. But I did
always notice over the years when you were at Refinery
and even afterwards, like you always do, sometimes we've in
the stop motions.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, I still love it. And then you know, eventually,
once I started being on camera more, I would come
up with ways to incorporate it with me, which is
harder to do because you're behind the camera anymore. But
I always love in my video content, specifically my ads.
I always liked to make them in a creative stylistic
way that's edited cool.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, absolutely, And you have the technical skills to do that,
so it's like, why not use that muscle. Well, you
end up entering Refinery twenty nine during this golden age
of the digital world and a video So you talked
a little bit about what Refinery was, and it was
a Brooklyn based company and it was female run. But
let's paint the picture a little bit more about what

(30:32):
Refinery twenty nine was at the time, and maybe like, what.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Did Instagram feeds look like back then?

Speaker 3 (30:39):
You know, oh yeah, I mean Instagram feeds, a lot
of people were just posting flat lays of their food
on seamless paper, like it was not real life, low touch.
It was like everyone wanted high quality, professional everywhere I went.
It was like I'm standing on my chair taking a
photo of my whole brunch spread. I don't know, the

(31:00):
the style was different, and I think also at that time,
it was becoming more and more visually appealing for people
to follow social media profiles that had clearly high quality
camera photography shots, whereas now I think people are gravitating
towards content that looks like it was shot on the iPhone.
Then you know, every video it's a hybrid. I mean,

(31:23):
everyone I think appreciates a good cinematic moment, but for
vloggers or you know, people are now they want to see.
Even then, my YouTube content at Refinery was very high touch,
Like I had a videographer with a C three hundred
following me, and it was like he was doing all
this amazing depthy stuff and YouTube the company was giving

(31:45):
Refinery feedback on my content. Saying it's like too good,
it needs to be low touch, like they were showing
us Emma Chamberlain on the Rise and people who were
making content that just looked like it was dark and dingy,
and I kind of was like, I understand what you're saying,
but I have a desire to make good quality content,
Like I always wanted my content to look like it

(32:07):
could be on TV. So I always because that's your art. Yeah,
to me, I'm like, that's what I watched growing up.
That's what I want to make. I don't want to
just make stuff low touch so that if it's into
the mold of what's hot right now, I want it
to be.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
And the low touch, the low touch style that Emma has,
that's her.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Art, Yeah, you know for sure. Yeah, And she's I mean,
she's such a talented editor, so it doesn't matter what
she does because she's making it engaging and really. Like
Instagram was on the rise, Snapchat was the big place,
and all the stuff that I think my platforms grew
the most from the YouTube content being repurposed onto Snapchat

(32:44):
because in twenty fifteen, Refinery twenty nine got one of
the Snapchat Discover bubbles at the time when there were
only twenty brands or twenty five media brands that were there,
which meant that like every time a new Triliv Inclusi
came out, it was published there, and I would see
every time it was put on Snapchat. I would open
my Instagram and it's like five thousand new followers in

(33:05):
twenty four hours, and it was really a heavy growth period.
I remember I walked in there. I had a list
of ideas of YouTube series I could host. The head
of the video department pointed to the five Day Challenge
one and said, go shoot a pilot of that. This
is my first week there. I chose the pilot was
going to be five days of no phone and they

(33:29):
didn't give me anyone to film it at the time,
so I was like, I need my phone to film it,
and he was like, well, you need to find someone
else with the phone to film it because you're putting
your phone away. So I turned my phone off, put
it in the drawer, and then had another friend in
the office follow me. Eventually, they had an in house
videographer who was just like there whenever I needed to

(33:49):
reserve him. But I just shot the first episode showed
it to him. He watched it, He gave no notes.
He was like, post it and keep going, and actually
that's not what happened. He said, make another. So I
made a second one, and then he said make another.
I made a third one, and then he said, okay,
now post the first and now you're three weeks ahead.
Keep going, and it was just another Like from that

(34:09):
moment forward, it was a train moving full steam ahead.
And I don't think I stopped shooting until we called
it like the end of season one. I was like,
I need to have a month to regroup, relax, shoot
new content, get some stuff in the can, because I
was I was literally shooting stuff on Monday that had
to go live on Friday.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, and you're doing literally your weeks are weeks of challenges.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yes, And it was a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
And it was about five am one right, waking up
at what was it waking up at five morning for
five days?

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Which is great for you, by the way.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
But you know, the thing that I find so interesting too,
is like why I called it like the Golden Age
of video is because what Refinery twenty nine was so
good at was you guys were coming in as a
professional company, but not operating the same way like the
Today Show operates, where the hosts go on and they
have a script that they're following. Like you, as the host,

(35:03):
were coming on and doing everything from scripting to hosting,
to editing to actually yeah, hosting, being on camera, Like
you guys had to be as hosts kind of like
the jack of all trades.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
And that's I mean, one could say that that's because
they were ahead of their time and they were giving
people autonomy. But on the flip side of that, it
was like they had no budgets, so they were like,
this person's going to do everything, and that's pretty much
why for a lot of their content, and like this
goes for BuzzFeed, advice and every place. But like that's
this is why for a lot of those companies when

(35:37):
they make videos, they use their own employees as the
talent because they just don't have extra budgets to pay.
Everything is so scrappy. There's basically no budget for the series.
So the budget is them paying me my salary and
then I'm running around shooting editing, putting it together only
by you know, maybe season two of the show, did
we have a dedicated videographer who was they're available to shoot,

(36:01):
and then editors who were editing, and I was just
giving rounds and rounds of notes. But like, truthfully, I
always had difficulty letting go of control of the episodes
because I was I very much saw myself as the
executive producer, and I was like, if I just had
more time in the day, I would be the scriptwriter,

(36:22):
the producer, the host, and the full editor and the
community manager of it once it goes live. Obviously I'm
just one person, so I can't do that. But I
was heavy handed in the edits, and I would give
pages and pages of notes to the point where it's like,
can you cut this one breath out at this millisecond
of a time code, because to me, that makes a
difference in the viewing experience.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
No, it's so true, and I'm a big believer that
when you're first starting out with content, like when I
first started my running interview show, it was the same thing.
Like I was running around filming the episodes, planning the episodes,
getting people to be on them, with me doing the prep,
doing all the editing, literally running like there was just
so so much involved. And also I was working at
full time job in advertising so it was just like

(37:05):
not sleeping, but like building off of this momentum.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
I mean, yeah, I think that's where you find success.
Like you're honing your own craft and coming up with
your own style, and.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
You're figuring out your voice and how you like yourself
to show up on camera, you know. And there's so
many little nuances in editing that I think, like the
best editors understand pacing, and that's a really hard skill
to learn when you're editing the pacing of somebody else's videos.
I totally get that if not wanting to let go
of control, but in order to grow, you have to write.

(37:40):
And like, would you have been able to start Lucy
for Hire if you hadn't had that editing team.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
No?

Speaker 1 (37:46):
No.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
And I also, you know, being one person, I wouldn't
have been able to take the content that I was
spending so much time producing on YouTube and blast out
across every other platform if it weren't for the media
power behind Refinery. So they had teams for everything. So
like I was working hard on one YouTube asset and

(38:07):
then I would wake up the next morning and it
was repurposed, cut vertically, chopped up to put on Snapchat.
It was repurposed into a really beautiful Pinterest graphic. It
was popped on Facebook in a square shape, it was
on the website as an article. They would just take
the one thing I did and we were talking about
getting the most shelf life out of your content. They
were taking it and putting all their team power behind it,

(38:30):
and then I would just like see it in other
places and then I didn't. That was one thing that
was hit me hard when I left in twenty nineteen.
I was like, I'm going off on my own. I'm
signing with an agent and I'm going to be doing
this on my own. And I started creating my own
YouTube content and then I was like, oh my gosh,
I need to put this everywhere. And that's not a
one person job.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
No it's not. Yeah, I mean the distribution of platforms.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
It's the hardest part, yeah, because it's tedious enough getting
through one long form video and then even just identifying
the cutdowns that's allthing that you were doing, and then
it's a whole another thing.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
When totally and I do even to this day, like
I watch every piece of content that's going to come
out on my platform or my podcasts platform, and I
give it final approval, but I've had to kind of
let go of the need to do the first round
edit on everything because then I would just be in
a dark room all day.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
How did your show try? Living with Lucy? Like, how
did you come up with the idea?

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Honestly, it was on a list of a bunch of
other format ideas. I remember just thinking what would I
watch if I saw it on my Facebook feed? Like
I were at that time, I was just scrolling through
Facebook there. It was sort of the rise of the
BuzzFeed content that was popping up, and a lot of
digital publications were using their in house editors to make stuff,

(39:58):
and I was just like, what do I personally want
I do and what would I want to watch? And
I was getting really interested in the challenges that I
did in the show as a person, Like I think
the twenty fourteen twenty fifteen time for me, which is
right when I graduated college, that was such an exploratory
time in my life of do I want to be

(40:19):
a morning person? What kind of exercises do I want
to try? Like I've never eaten in a certain way?
Do I want do I want to explore veganism? Like
what are these cold showers. People are talking about these
trends that are popping up, and I'm reading articles, But
what would happen if I tried them and save people
time and just show them my takeaway? And so that
was kind of how I came up with the concept.

(40:41):
But pretty quickly into working there, I realized that not
a lot of people know that the show was very
much like a produced show in that yes I did
do the challenges, I actually did them, but most of
the content that people were seeing was not me doing
stuff in real time. Some of it was like sometimes

(41:03):
I would set up my phone and whatnot, but a
lot of times it was like I did the challenge
for a week. I would take notes on what was happening.
Then I would sit down and produce a story arc
of likes as a reality TV show producer would. What
is the story arc? This can't just be a vlog
of what's happening live because that's going to get boring.

(41:24):
So there needs to be like the introduction, there has
to be some rising action. We need to find some
tension around Wednesday or Thursday, and then I need to
resolve it on Friday and have a takeaway. What's my story.
I would write my script and then I would go
back and record all of the weekly things. There were
days when I would be in my apartment with my
webcam changing out its five times to be filming Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

(41:45):
and then my videographer would followed me as I recreated
some of the things I did in the week. Some
episodes I couldn't do that because it was like you
really needed to see my raw reaction to doing it live.
Like when I went to this guy knew Jery and
he had me hold all these bugs and I was
facing my fears like I needed that needed to be
filmed live. But a lot of stuff like the cold showers,

(42:06):
I wasn't actually taking cold shower and having the experience
with my cameraman in the room. It was like I
did it and then he'd come to my apartment. I'd
put on a bathing suit and we'd get some like
b roll of the water and whatever, and so it
was produced like a show. But I think it came
off naturally enough that most people didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean, I had no idea. That's so funny.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
What were some of the things that you did as
challenges that you implemented into your life, if any.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
I definitely got really into the wellness stuff, so I
fell in love with bullet journaling, and I for a while,
I was like really into I've always been into art
and drawing and that kind of stuff, but for a
while I fell in love with having a journal and
tracking habits and just wellness things like. I also got
super into meditation for a while, and I her Veda.

(42:53):
I was really intrigued by. I felt like I learned
so much about that. Otherwise, I think that they were
just fun learning experiences and pushed me to get out
of my comfort zone and try new things. Like the
Facing my Fears episode was one that I really didn't
want to do for a while because I was like,
I don't really want to do these, yeah, you know.

(43:15):
One fear was with those I had like scorpions in
my hand. Another fear I was sitting reading negative comments
that were written about me out loud. And it was
like every single time I did something that was hard
that I didn't want to do, I was like, that
was an amazing experience, and I think the show taught
me overall. It was called Try Living with Lucy that

(43:36):
ended up being the best name. Because my takeaway from
my own show is the power of trying new things
is crazy. And pretty much every stage of my career,
every ounce of success I've had, has come from me
doing something that I didn't know how to do and
just saying I'm just going to try it and see
what happens, and then it turned into something and blossomed

(43:58):
into something. So I just I'm always encouraging people to
keep curious, Like, remain curious as you age, remain curious
as you grow, Like, don't pin yourself and pigeonhole yourself
and say I'm not good at this kind of thing
or I don't like this. You never know what's going
to come out of just trying something new and keeping
things fresh. And so I try to live by that energy.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's such a good ethos to live by.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
And yeah, it is so important to be curious and
ask questions and try new things.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Let's dive a little bit into one of the things
that you just said.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
So you talked about one of the things that you
never wanted to do was read negative comments about yourself.
The irony of the whole thing is like you have
such a positive platform, right You've always been like Lucy's
always been my favorite creator and somebody that I've been
so inspired by with everything I do online.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Hey, I'm so honored. Is that wild? It's wild. I
wish I knew you'd sooner. I wish you answered my
DM girl.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I know that would have been cool. You probably would
have been on the show sooner though, and maybe I
wouldn't have had my podcast, So this is perfect timing.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
This is great.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Actually, I remember when you hit one hundred thousand followers
and like how excited you were, and I remember like, all,
I don't know, it's just so funny.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
I remember I had a little party for that.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yes, yes, with Michael, Yes, so cute. It was so cute.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
But you've always had such a positive platform, and I
don't know, just the concept of trying things that are
outside of your comfort zone, just like breeds positivity, and
I feel like there's nothing there's just nothing negative about you.
So when you go from you know, ogle Fee to
working at Refiner twenty nine and all of a sudden
becoming this public face and like really being a public
face for the first time, I'm sure you started getting

(45:34):
recognized walking around New York, like what was that like
for you.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I got a little taste of what happens when you
put yourself on social media at Johns Hopkins because posting
myself on YouTube, it was like, my immediate reaction is,
let's see what the comments are. And there wasn't too
much negativity. But there's always someone that sees you. There's
some stat out there that's like whatever X percentage of
people who see your face pop up on a tea

(46:00):
are just gonna hate you before they even hear a
word that comes out of your mouth. So I always
do that, who is this happy girl?

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:08):
I don't like this, Like I I just don't like this,
And I'm not immune. Sometimes I like see something and
I just form a judgment and I understand where it
comes from. But that's a thing that I like kind
of always knew was gonna happen. And then when I
was moving to Refinery, I remember my job at Ogilvie's
felt so safe because I kept saying I want to
be on camera, but I also was very not vulnerable

(46:30):
in my role there, and I didn't nothing I made
had my face in it. I was just behind the scenes.
And when I got this job at refinery, and I
knew they were going to start putting me on camera.
I had to have this reckoning with myself of do
I actually want to do this because this is gonna
make in some ways, this could make my life better
and I'm probably gonna get to do the joyous things

(46:52):
I want to do and be on camera. But I
also pretty much know this is going to open the
door for me to get that mean, nasty stuff written
about me. And do I want to subject myself to that?
Because I don't have to, Like this is up to me.
I could say I just don't want to do this,
and then I'd live a safer life. And I thought

(47:12):
about it for a while and I remember, like truly,
at the end of the day, the spot that I
thrive in is having a camera be following me while
I'm doing something and engaging with the world, bringing people
into the activity, connecting with someone, showing things to people,
making really complex topics easy to digest, and bringing people

(47:34):
in and having empathy with the world. And when the
camera turns on a lot of people get at their worst.
It's like they freeze up whatever. For me, it is
polar opposite. I could be shooting a basketball five thousand times.
It's not hitting the rim. You turn the camera on swish,
it's like it helps in every way. And I'm like,

(47:56):
I know, this is what I want to be doing.
And the only drawback of this is that I am
subjecting myself to what people think. So do I want
to go through that? And I really thought about it,
and my final takeaway was, I think I will be
happier at the end of my life if I do
it and I try it, and I go for it,
and I put myself out there and I deal with
the negative comments, then if I sit on the sidelines

(48:18):
and watch other people do it and stay safe. Because
I just knew I was going to be a twenty
five thirty year old girl watching someone else be on
YouTube and I was going to be like, I should
have done it. That's what I want to do. So
I just made the decision I'm just going to do it,
and I wasn't wrong. Getting to Refinery tweent nine and
the moment you're on camera, there's hundreds of you have

(48:41):
the worst vocal fry. You're the ugliest person I've ever seen.
I've always had a really my whole family's like a
slim body frame. My twin sister and I have the
same exact build and we always had difficulty gaining weight
growing up, but like we eat as much as we
ever want to eat. Immediate comments you have believe me
a u vanorexia. You must have an eating disorder. Eat

(49:02):
a burger, You're I could snap you in half. People
commenting on features that I always loved about myself, like
your eyes look like you have XYZ disease, Like those
are the biggest eyes ever. You should get checked for this.
That immediate hate about physical stuff and immediate commentary on
the art form of what I'm posting. And this is
so dumb, and you're such an idiot, and it's like

(49:24):
you just immediately get bombarded. And then you're kind of
the only one who season feels that because there's obviously
it's like one percent of the comments are like that.
The other ninety nine are people who are grateful for
what you shared and liked watching it. But that one
percent is so loud to you. You're kind of scouring
the comments like dismissing all the good ones looking for

(49:45):
the bad ones. And you really have to pretty early
on in this field, like buck up and be like,
if I want to keep doing this, I have to
just know that that's going to be here and I'm
never going to change these people's minds. It's not my
responsibility to make everyone like me. And I'm doing what

(50:06):
I'm doing, and hopefully the people that are liking what
I'm doing will find me and follow me, and I
think that's happened. But there's always people who dislike you,
sometimes for whatever reasons they have, and sometimes for no
reason at all. And sometimes the reason they dislike you
is just because you're having some success at what you're doing,
and maybe they don't want to do it themselves, but

(50:29):
they are feeling triggered by it in some way. And
I don't know if you've ever seen my TEDx talk
about the story I told about one time I was
getting trolled NonStop by this one person, and normally I
just will delete or block an incessant troller, but this
one girl, I was like really shook by it because

(50:49):
it was so aggressive and she seemed so upset, and
I really got curious about what could possibly be causing this,
and I DMed her and I was like, it sounds
like you have a lot of feedback for me, let
me know if you want to get on a zoom call,
like I'd love to hear it in a more appropriate
format because the comments you're leaving are not working right.
And she responded yes, and I ended up getting on

(51:09):
a zoom call with my troll and was a life
changing experience. I mean, the call opened with small talk.
It was like, where do you live, what's the weather like?
It was very funny.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
We give us the details. Where did she live?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Like?

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Where was she was somewhere in the middle of the country.
This was all during COVID. It was like a very
dark time. She had lost a job, she ended she
was in the middle of the country. We start talking
and eventually I was like, we both know why we're here,
so let's just dive into this. I've been seeing what
you've been writing, and I really just would love to

(51:45):
hear from you directly, you know, looking at me face
to face. What are you trying to say? Like, what's
going on? And within seconds she's hysterically crying. And she
basically just went on to tell me that every area
of my life that I share that showcases something going well,
has a corresponding area of her life where something is

(52:07):
going poorly. She's like, you're you are married and your
relationship's doing well. I just got divorced. You're really close
with your family. I see you're like best friends with
your twin sister. I'm estranged from my mom. You are
thin framed and whatever. I've been struggling with my weight
and I've been eating disorder. You are doing well with
your business. I just lost my job. Like it was

(52:28):
exactly what you would, exactly what you think when someone
is People always say, if someone's posting negative stuff, it's
all about them, it's not about you. And it's like
proof right there, that's exactly where negative negativity on the
Internet comes from. And that's not to say that. You know,
sometimes if there's someone who's like an absolute bigot, it's
not that everyone writing about them, it's about them.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Like yes, of course in most instances, it's like insecurity
always speaks the loudest yes. And it's like, I feel
like we even learn it growing up. Is like sometimes
if there's like a bullyan school, Oh yeah, it's going
around in your home life and you have to like
just meet them with grace. And I think that's amazing
what you did. I'm going to take that tactic because
it really is so smart. I yeah, maybe have a

(53:10):
lot of zoom calls to get on.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
I mean, by the end of the call, I was like, listen,
I hear you. I too get triggered when I see
people on social media who are posting something good in
an area of my life that's not doing great, I
also say something negative. In my head. I'm personally I
would never think to write something negative because to me,

(53:34):
writing a mean post to someone is embarrassing for me, Like,
I think that gives me second hand embarrassment to do that,
So I would never do it. But I understand where
it's coming from in your own head. And I was like,
I just want to pass on to you that sometimes
when that happens to me and I feel the urge
to say something negative, I force myself to write something positive,

(53:54):
and I, without fail, always feel better leaving the interaction.
By the end of it, she apologized, and I was like,
I'm going to unblock you. You can come back to
my platforms, but you know, I'm just sending you love.
I see where you're coming from. My takeaway from it
was not that I need to like convert every troll
into a loyal follower. She actually has since flip flopped

(54:16):
and gone back and forth. She went through a really
nice stage, then she became a troll again. It is
what it is. My learning from it though, was that
you it's not my job to make everyone like me,
and you never know what others are going through, and
sometimes talking to those people and hearing about it helps
you understand it more. But at the end of the day,
I will never understand the attacking of people online. I

(54:39):
just I don't think it like gets you anywhere.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, And sometimes it's just it's just straight up bullying
and it's mean.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, it's really mean, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
I think what's hard to as people that like really
just try to create content that is positive and like
has a positive message and you know, just shows people
as humans, you know, and just tries to show a
humanity and everything that you're doing and shows relatable experiences too,
Like it is hard when you're met with negativity. On

(55:17):
that note, I want to talk a little bit about
your twin sister, yes, and your family. One of my
favorite things about your content has always been that you
let kind of the characters in your life in and
I know that's a conscious decision as a content creator
because I am personally not somebody that really shows my family.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
My two brothers work in finance.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
My twin has like no interest in being in my content,
although I would love him to be in my content.
Like how did you make the decision to put Ali
in your content? And like how did she feel about it?
How does she feel about it?

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, my family they've just
sort of always known that this was the type of
career field I was going to go down. And I
would say my dad and my brother are two people
who are also they're more in line with me personality wise.
My dad is in the radio, my brother is a musician,

(56:07):
and they just both are sort of in the media
space and like posting on social media themselves, and they're
very active on their own accounts. Anytime I ask I
need you to be on my podcast, I needs you
to be in this video. They're down to do anything.
They're always like tag me, I want more followers.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Whereas you were always so good at lifting your brother's
music career up.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Yes, and he's you know, he works at Spotify and
he has a full time job, but he has this
incredible band from his high school group of friends. And
they're so talented and they're still working together and writing music.
And I don't think any of them are trying actively
to make it their jobs at this point, but they're
just so talented and I use their music and all

(56:46):
my stuff. Actually, my brother's song is my podcast like track. Yes,
it's in the intro and the outro. It's called Rolling Stone.
It's a great song. But you know, I ended up
with a husband who was my high school sweetheart, who
is very similar to my twin sister. So they are
like twins with each other, same type of personality. They're
way more introverted as people, and I think they just

(57:09):
accept me for who I am and accept that part
of being my wife or my sister means that you're
like somehow looped into this world. But I don't ask
them to be anyone other than who they are. It's
just that I sometimes do request their presence in content.
For both of them, it's like they need advanced warning

(57:29):
if I want them in something because they don't feel comfortable.
It's not that they don't like it or they don't
want it out there. It's not like I'm asking them
to share stuff that they want to keep private. But
it's just that being on camera for them, like I
was saying, it makes them clam up. They don't feel
like happy in that situation. So I have to literally
tell my husband, like weeks in advance, we're going to

(57:49):
be doing something on this day, mentally prepare yourself, and
then he will. They're very not active on their own platforms.
My husband actually deleted his own Instagram account and his
account his app, and then he like logs in occasionally
from desktop to watch what I'm sharing. But both of
them work, they have similar lives and jobs. They're both

(58:10):
like in a financial field, and they just have no
interest in this space. As I was telling you, I
ask my husband every day if he wants to come
work with me, and he's like, absolutely not. And my sister,
I mean, she's always worked in finance. She's a trader,
and she's gone through moments of like this, especially as
she's getting into the stage of like thinking of having

(58:32):
kids in the next few years, Like do I want
to work in finance? Is this gonna be a good job?
What should I be entrepreneurial? Should I do something with you?
Should we like start a line of something together. She's
thought of it, but I think for the most part,
she's happy to just do her life and have her privacy.
And she was public on Instagram for a little while
and I would tag her. She has fifteen thousand followers

(58:53):
from that, but then she went private and she's like,
I don't want these followers anymore. So now she says
no to anyone knew who's trying to follow her, and
she basically doesn't post. I don't know. I just think
that the people in my life accept that they're going
to be in some stuff, and it's kind of the
same with this is how my husband and I have
approached our kids. Like we talked a really long time

(59:15):
about do we show them do we not show them?
And I never really wanted to be the person who
was like putting emojis and hiding them. But I also
never want to be like a family channel or to
have my kids' faces be the number one thing that
pops out on my feed. So I show them occasionally sparingly,
and where possible, I try to show them from the

(59:37):
back or the side, or like crop them from the
nose down, but ever so often I pop their face on.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
I think you do a really good job managing thank you,
you know, because it is kind of a hard thing
to balance when like you are a lifestyle creator and
like you love talking about family life and like being
a mom, and I loved your content when you had
just had my low. We haven't really talked about this yet.
You know, you started at Refinery twenty nine, you had
these video shows. You end up leaving Refinery twenty nine
starting Lucy Ffink Media, which congratulations. I knowk you years

(01:00:02):
now that you've been on your own, but still is
just such a cool accomplishment when you transitioned from Refinery
twenty nine, Like what was the biggest adjustment with your
content and like what did you lean into?

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
So when I left, it was twenty nineteen, and I
got out at a really good time because the following year,
Refinery twenty nine was sold to Vice and then it
sort of dissolved, like not a single person I worked
with their staid and it's now just like a subsidiary
a Vice. But I had been working for a couple
of years to leave, I really did want to start

(01:00:35):
working with brands and an agent on my own, and
for a couple of years I was committed to Refinery
twenty nine and I basically had them being my agent.
So in addition to my salary and the job I
was doing for their YouTube channel, I was doing brand
deals on my own Instagram that they were taking cut
of and that was happening for a couple of years
until I just realized the split and the deal was

(01:00:58):
not really in my favor. And I had basic confirmation
from the agent that I ended up signing with that
if I were to leave and go off that my
first year I would be able to make more than
my salary and all this other stuff combined, and she
was right. And when I left, I think the biggest
oh my gosh moment was, oh my gosh, I have

(01:01:18):
to do everything that Refinery twenty nine was doing for myself,
and I was really just a one woman show at
that point. I had my agents for negotiating brand deals
and handling contracts, but aside from that, it was like,
I'm making all my editorial content, I'm making all my
sponsored content, I'm editing everything, I'm making sure it goes
up on every platform, writing all the captions, responding to

(01:01:40):
every comment, and pretty quickly after working there, I was
like this is when I need to figure out a
virtual assistant or hiring someone to help me. And I
started experimenting with like employees at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
And so, now how big is the Lucy Eating Media team?

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
It's still very lean, I would say, I got I
have one employee who's full time. She works with me.
She's basically my right hand girl. And when I advertised
for recruiting for this role, the job description was literally,
I'm looking for me who doesn't want to be on camera.
I just want someone who has all my skills, all

(01:02:17):
my knowledge, same voice as me, or can at least
capture my voice, but has no interest in becoming on camera.
And I had to write that because at Refinery twenty
nine there were a lot of interns and associate producers
who would work with me to help the series and
the franchises that I was building, but they secretly or

(01:02:39):
not so secretly wanted to pitch their own shows. And
I was like, I need someone here who just wants
to be a producer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
You don't need somebody that is trying to figure out, well,
what can I do for myself? You know, I really
want somebody to be invested in you and those are
the best people to work with because they're so dedicated
to becoming the best producer, Like that's the self challenge
for them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
That time at Refinery was so unique because it was
really the rise of the personal brand, and every single
person that worked at Refinery twenty nine, whether they were
a coder or a writer, or a beauty editor or
a video editor, it was like every single person was

(01:03:18):
somehow wanting to get on camera and be in the
videos and build their own personal brand around whatever they did.
And I believe there's a space for everyone to do that.
But it was really hard when my job title there
was on camera talent, and I was like I came
here to host, and now all my editors and producers
and the support team also wants to host. It was
hard and navigating, you know, helping lift people up and

(01:03:41):
helping them get their series greenlit while also being like
I just need producers and support here and so working
on my own. I finally now I have this one
right hand girl who's great. I have a virtual assistant
that is very helpful for like all the back end tasks.
Then I have a separate team that I hire that

(01:04:02):
works on just my affiliate linking and anytime I'm doing
shot my or like to Know It or anything like that.
And then my talent management team which does all the
brand deal stuff, the podcast team which is at Deer Media.
I have like a little studio space where I live
where that's the podcast is shot and edited through them.
And then a lawyer who's on everything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
But isn't it amazing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Like I feel like, and I know you just answered
that same kind of question on your Q and A
from this week, which, by the way, guys, we have
to shout out Lucy's podcast because it is so good,
But it really is amazing. Like as content creators, there
are especially when you do a podcast and you do
affiliate linking, you know, and you're using your putting stuff
out on every single platform, there's just so many different
avenues and teams that you do have to build out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
And as I said in that podcast, one of the
things I do is I am a coach for people
who want to grow their social presence. My ideal client
is someone who is some sort of entrepreneur. Maybe they're
a real estate agent, or they have a storefront, or
they're starting a new app or whatever, and they accept
the fact that in twenty twenty five, if you have

(01:05:11):
any job, you kind of need a social presence to
get people in the door. And I work with people,
and my first, you know, the most frequent thing I
hear from people is I did not realize how much
work this took to be a content creator. And I
think that's because the land of Instagram for the masses
is like they're after work playground where they go to
have fun and they watch and they scroll and they

(01:05:33):
see fun content from creators and they're like, this looks
like a fun life, not realizing that that creator is
planning and implementing and working. There's so much more that
goes into it than just the fun posts that you
popped on your Instagram. But there's strategy, and there's calendars
and comments and so much to handle that it's really

(01:05:54):
the first thing I hear from everyone when I'm working
with them is like, Wow, I'm a little overwhelmed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Oh of course, I mean the content is so overwhelming.
It kind of feels like you're on this constant treadmill
that's very hard to get off of because once you do,
you lose momentum. So it's like you have to really
stay on it. Content is exhausting. It's definitely a full
time job, and when you're running your own business and
you're the face of it, it's a challenge. Let's talk
about this. What is inspiring you right now? Because you're
a very curious person. I think we've learned that from

(01:06:21):
this episode that Lucy is always like trying new.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Things, thinking about new things, you know, So what is
interesting you in life right now?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
As I said, I'm doing this coaching where I'm working
with people one on one, and for the first time ever,
I'm starting to think that there could be a group
coaching situation. I've always said no to group coaching, especially
with content building, because I feel like it's so personalized
and I love talking to people one on one and

(01:06:48):
the advice I would give to a small batch ice
cream maker versus a psychotherapist is very different. But I've
been starting to think a lot about how there are
lessons and takeaways and learnings that I could do still
that's the same for everyone, and create some sort of
a coaching group platform that's more accessible, like the price

(01:07:08):
point for the individual coaching is way higher, but something
that more people could afford. Because going back to what
we talked about on the run. I feel like everyone
has a story and everyone has a unique voice. And
I hate when people talk about social media being oversaturated
and there's no room in this niche or like there's
too many people doing this. The fact is, if you

(01:07:29):
want to start, say you want to start a beauty
account today, and then you decide, nah, that's too saturated,
I'm not going to do it. I can tell you
right now, between now and December of this year, there
are going to be hundreds of new beauty accounts that
pop up that become successful and popular, and yours could
be one of those if you just commit to starting.
But if you say it's saturated, of course you're not

(01:07:50):
going to be one of the people. But there's always
going to be new people popping up. We have proof
now from the past ten years in the industry that
there's enough space for new people to pop up, and like, yes,
it's more saturated. People are following more people, people have
more posts on their account. You know now my Instagram's
like three thousand posts versus when I first started. But

(01:08:11):
there's room and there's people that are looking.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
For whatever it is you have to share, and I
think that's great advice. And so many people are trying
to break into this industry, so they do have to
know that that, Yeah, even if the thing that you
love to do maybe isn't so unique like something super
super random, you know, there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Is still space for you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
I figured it out within the running community and within
the running space.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
When you first had Milo, your oldest child and your
son before Coco, who's your daughter, what was it like
running your own business while also becoming a new mom.
Because I've had some people on that are like I
was doing a Jimmy John's ad in the delivery room,
and then other people that are like, I've taken I
took a little bit time off, you know, like what
was that balance.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Like for you?

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Yeah? He came three weeks early, so I was not
mentally prepared. I hadn't wrapped up my projects, but I
sort of just put everything on pause, and my team
was really understanding, and I did take intentionally three months
of I'm not going to do any brand deals in
this time, and I actually was fully I was so

(01:09:24):
uncertain about what having a kid was going to feel
like for me. There was a part of me that
kind of if I'm being honest. I think I hoped
that when I had a kid, I would just be like,
nothing matters now except for being a mom, and I'm
just going to like give up social media and go
live off the land and roam free in the countryside
and you know, grow my own food. Didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
You are growing your own foods.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
I am growing some food, that's true, but it's just
not what happened. Like, I think I sort of hoped
my whole life being in this rat race of the city,
thinking about having kid felt so comforting of like, well,
one day I'll get to that stage where none of
this work stuff is going to matter because I'm going
to be a mom. And then I had him, and

(01:10:10):
I took three months off of doing ads. But in
that three months I was so creatively inspired to share
what was actually happening in my life. So I say
both times my maternity leaves were my biggest growth drivers
from my platform because it just gave me the space
to create real, meaningful content about what was happening in

(01:10:30):
my life. And both postpartum periods, I'm like so emotional
that my content becomes so emotional. I was like getting
really into making videos that were making me cry and
other people cry, and it was like an art time
for me. But I remember I took that time off
and then on the back end of it, I was like, wait,

(01:10:51):
I have this kid, and I love being a mom
and I'm loving this. Although I did go through I
had some severe baby blues having a baby in the winter.
I already have like seasonal effective disorder, and then with
a new baby and saying inside for the whole month
of November and December, it was a dark time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Lucy is such a ray of suntime that she needs
to charge and no, I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
Literally am a plant. Yeah, I need the sun, I
swear to God. I bought a house based on where
the sun came into the windows, and so it didn't
have that in this New York City apartment where I
had myelow, and it was kind of a dark space.
And then it was November and postpartum hormones and I
was just in a dark place. But as soon as
I emerged from that and we hired a part time

(01:11:34):
nanny and I was like, I'm going to get back
to work a little. I was shocked to find that
my actual takeaway after having a kid was that I want.
I'm so creatively inspired and I actually work is more
meaningful to me than ever. And it just didn't happen
the way I hoped it would or wanted it to,
but I felt the complete opposite. I think a lot
of people have a kid and then they're like, I

(01:11:54):
actually don't want to work anymore. And I think that
happens to a lot of people who are not super
passionate about their job and they just have to go,
and then they come out of their leave and they're
like crying to leave their kid and they don't want
to go. And I was like, not that I wanted
to get away from him, but I was like, this
is filling me up so much. And I am so
blessed that my family and my husband's family are local,

(01:12:16):
so we have a lot of hands on. They're the
first grandkids on both sides of the family, so a
lot of people to help. And we now have a
full time nanny, and also our son is in a
school program five days a week, half the day, and
it's I just love doing my job and working for myself,
and I love when he sees me working and he

(01:12:38):
knows what I do and he I mean as much
as he can know. He thinks that mommy makes movies,
so I think he thinks I'm like Steven Spielberg or something.
But I'm like, I'm making movies. And then I'll show
him what I make and he's very into it. And
I really love showing him that. When I go to work,
I'm not like I have to go to work. I'm

(01:12:58):
so sad, I don't want to go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
I have to.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
I'm showing him like, this is what mommy wants to
do right now, this is so Look how much fun
this is. Look what I made, Look what I'm working on.
Look what product we got through my job. And like
I'm giving him things with his name on it. The
brands are sending and he's like, where'd we get that?
And I'm like, the company sent it, and it's exciting,
and I'm just I've become super charged creative having kids

(01:13:23):
in a way that I'm excited about. Of course, it's
so much of a balance because the work week, I
want to see them, but I feel like work. It's
the best of both worlds. I'm working right from my home,
so every time he's home from school, I see him.
I stop for an hour. I have lunch, she has
a snack. We hang out, then he goes for his
afternoon activity and say with my daughter. Now she's home

(01:13:45):
all day, she takes her nap in the morning. When
she wakes up and comes down, I'm right there and
I can like I'm never doing anything that bars me
from seeing them. If I have an important call, I'll
go in my room and close the door. Otherwise I'm
very accessible. My husband's also working from home, so we're
just like living in the house but both doing our
jobs and getting to see the kids a fair amount.

(01:14:06):
And it's working really well right now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
I love the concept that you just said, which is
you get to show your kids that, yeah, work doesn't
have to be a chore. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
It's like it's exciting, like I chose what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Yeah, And it's also showing like even like you know,
before work, for them, it's going to be school. It's
also showing like mom loves learning and she loves learning
about new people and hearing about what they do and
learning their stories. So I don't know, there's a lot
of good that's coming out of it. You've also gotten
a lot deeper with your content. I think post becoming
a mom and even pre becoming a mom, and maybe

(01:14:38):
really as you started Lucyfink Media, and I wrote down
a couple of things. But on your podcast, The Real
Stuff with Lucy Fink and in your social content you've
talked about breastfeeding, postpartum, hair loss, sex, marriage, identity. So
when did you feel the calling to go deeper?

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
You know, Refinary twenty nine, a lot of the content
was I would call it there kitchy or campy, or
a lot of it was these trending challenges, like you're
really trying to capitalize on what's the craziest thing I
can do? Like two weeks of not washing my hair
or five days of beating nothing but pizza for every meal.
These are not you know, they're bringing people in because

(01:15:16):
of the wow factor of it. And even at Refinery
twenty nine, I noticed after a bunch of those videos,
that's when I got into wait, I really want to
explore the wellness things and the lifestyle things that are
calling to me. Honestly, when I went off on my
own and I had a kid, it was like, I
am having all these deep thoughts and I'm starting to

(01:15:38):
have other interests in my life aside from the like
clickbaity YouTube style stuff. So I really do want to
go deeper and that was where my podcast really was
born out of. Some of my favorite podcasts to listen
to are therapy podcasts where it's like, you know, estare
Perel or I love listening to her Meat Saeti and

(01:15:59):
his Mud Show where he literally brings on real couples
who open up about every dollar they have and he
helps them with their money mindset. And I was just like,
I want to be having these conversations that are about
taboo topics. These are the topics I love talking about
with my own friends and my family. And you know,
my dream night is like staying up late with cookies

(01:16:21):
and milk and talking about the meaning of life. And
I want to have if this is my dream to
do in real life, how can I translate this into
my work? And so the real stuff started as sex, money,
mental health. I want to bring people on and talk
about topics that they are never asked about on social media.
If you listen to some of the earlier episodes, it's

(01:16:42):
I'm asking a lot of these celebrities and influencers, how
much money is your business making? How often are you
and your partner having sex and listen. My whole thing
with the podcast is people have boundaries, and people don't
have to answer my questions. My goal is not to
make them spill things that they don't want to share.
But for people who don't want to share things for

(01:17:03):
a reason, I find that interesting of what why is
this taboo for you? Why do you feel uncomfortable? Why
do you not want to talk about this on social media?
I think probably the biggest explainer of like why I
wanted to do this podcast. I had this creator who
I really wanted to bring on the show. We finally
had a conversation about it, but at first she kept
saying no, no, no, no no, And I was like,

(01:17:24):
why don't you want to talk about this? And she
was like, I have a fear that if my audience
knows how much money I'm making, they're not going to
like me anymore. They're going to think I'm not relatable.
And I was like, that's what I want you to
say on the show. You don't need to come on
and say I'm making eight hundred thousand a year, but
can you come on and say that, because that's what
I want to hear. I think that's what people find interesting?

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
What if you found is like a super taboo topic,
and like what is the commonality as to why people
don't want to talk about it?

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
I think the money topic, Like a lot of people
are a lot of content creators that are have a
big following, are doing really well, lucrative, you know, making
a killing, And it's not that they're lying to their
audience about that, but I think everyone's aware that it's
like you, everyone wants to get there, and then you
get there, and everyone wants to take you off that pedestal,

(01:18:15):
and so no one wants to calm out and feel
everyone thinks that it sounds like they're bragging. One person
who I completely agree with, and I understand, she was saying,
I don't share money on my platform because my mission
and my message on my platform is x y Z
and like money has nothing to do with it, and
I think that like dilutes my message and that I get.

(01:18:37):
I think that's interesting too, Like that's what I want
to hear is the why. But a lot of these
entrepreneurs and influencers, they're making so much money for one
post and they don't want people in on that, Like
they kind of want to still play the role of relatable.
Here's the discount deals, but then they're making seven figures.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
I guess my question then is like, why do you
think it's important to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
I don't think it's important in that it's like a
vital thing for everyone to be sharing. I guess I
just have never really understood why it's so taboo or
what the big deal is. Like if someone were to
ask me how much I got paid for something or
how much money I made and something, I genuinely feel
like it's as I'm as comfortable sharing that as telling

(01:19:23):
you what I had for breakfast, and to the point
of like going back to that stop motion artist. Without
knowing what other people are charging for things, it's hard
for you to have any blueprint for what you could do.
And not that anyone wants to, not that everyone wants
to be a creator, but even just like I find
that hearing of other women in any field who asked

(01:19:43):
for more or got paid something to do something, it
pushes me in it inspires me in a positive way.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Yeah, I think just shows me what's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Yeah, And I think that part's very important also for
young professionals to know how to ask for more.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
Yeah, so I think, and for content creators, I just
I think it's easy to look at content creators and
a lot I mean, even to this day, a lot
of people look at what I'm doing and they see
my platform, and their comment on it is that I
must be living off my husband, right, And I mean,
you want people to know. It's like, I mean, part

(01:20:17):
of me wants to. It kind of goes back to
like I don't need to explain my life to everyone.
I have said on my podcast that there have been
years and times when I was the bigger breadwinner of
our family, and like it's like part of me wants
people to know that, and then part of me is like,
I don't need to prove myself to you. But it's
also I do want to make it clear to people
that not just me, but that females specifically, content creation

(01:20:40):
is a heavily female dominated space and no wonder people
shit on it. Because I just heard someone someone just
said this on my podcast Stay at Home Moms and
content creation are like the two heavily female spaces, and
both of them people say it's not a real job,
and both of them are hard jobs. So I don't
know It's not that I need to prove it to people, but.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
I think it's good that you talk about it. Yeah, No,
I like your perspective on it. When I first started
like making money on social media, I had no idea
what I could charge until my agent started charging stuff
for me and I was like, whoa, that's like way
different things.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Oh yeah, what I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
You have evolved so much as a creator over the years.
So when I was listening to your podcast the other day,
I heard that you eventually would be interested in writing books, right,
and you know, doing more in that space. So like,
what are you currently really excited about what's coming out?

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
You know, what should we be on the lookout for.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Yeah, so my dream, that's kind of always been my dream,
but I definitely put it on pause in my baby
making years. It just wasn't feasible, and also COVID and
whatever in that time. But it's kind of coming back now. Really,
my dream is to host an unscripted TV show. When
I say unscripted, I don't really mean like reality, none

(01:21:53):
of that. I want to host a show like dirty Jobs.
I mean that sort of show is really what Lucy
for Hire was based on. Yeah, and I think a
show like that, where it's someone going around human interest stories,
showing people behind the curtain of things that they've never seen,
taking people inside cool experiences around the world. That's still

(01:22:17):
my dream hosting gig, and I want to be doing
it on a platform that's not mine. So ideally I
want to be hosting a Netflix show. I would say TV,
but I don't know what's happening in the TV landscape.
But right now I'm having a lot of meetings with
production companies and streaming services and I'm just trying to
get the lay of the land of how people are
getting shows greenlit and what's happening. Because that's even though

(01:22:40):
the ad sponsored content right now is the backbone of
my business and it's lucrative and it's doing well, and
I basically don't need to do anything to keep that alive.
It's like I just keep showing up and the brands
are there. That's not my dream to do forever. And really,
as I said, I thrive when I'm being filmed and

(01:23:02):
being on camera, so I want to host unscripted TV content.
Aside from that, I did have an experience a few
years ago. I wrote a proposal of our book that
it kind of got changed from what I wanted it
to be. And it was so funny because the feedback
we got from the publishing houses was that they wanted
it to be something different, and what they wanted it

(01:23:25):
to be was what I had initially wanted it to be.
So I think I'm going to go back to that concept.
And like I ended up being a creative writing major
at Johns Hopkins, so I love writing, and I think
I always knew I would write a book, So I
think I will.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Do things I didn't know if you ended up changing
your major.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
I changed my major to creative writing and then just
did the video stuff extracurricularly. But I really do want
to write a book. I want to host a show,
and I want to work because I got my start
in advertising. One thing that's funny about the content creation
world and working with brands, as I'm sure you've noticed,
is the moment you start working with brands, the comments

(01:24:00):
start rolling in about being a sellout and oh now
your whole platforms ads or you just work with brands.
And I don't think it's ever cross people's minds that
like some of us like making commercials, like I worked
in advertising. I came from this space. My choice is
to work with a brand. There are plenty of ways
that I could monetize my platform without working with brands.

(01:24:21):
If I wanted to put my stuff behind a paywall,
if I wanted to make a Patreon, if I wanted
to sell merch, if I wanted to do a handful
of things. I could declare I don't work with brands,
but I love working with brands, and I to me like,
anytime I have a shoot day with a brand, it's
a great day. So I love doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
It's fun to get a creative brief coming from working.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
Out, and I love having calls with brands and telling
them what's going to work. And a lot of brands
need education on what they're asking for, and then what
I give them is like different from what they wanted,
but then they're excited about it and it does well.
So I love doing that and I'm excited to keep
doing that. But I just feel like the lifestyle content

(01:25:01):
that I was doing back in the day and that
I want to be getting back into now is really
where my heart is.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
Well. I am so excited to see what you continue
to do. Guys. If you didn't tell.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Lucy is just an example of what happens when you
just keep moving. It's going to be so cool to
see what you go on to do, and hopefully see
you host a show. I mean, that would be wild.
Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Thank you for having me, so good to meet you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Thank you, guys so much for listening to today's episode
with Lucy. This was definitely one of my favorite conversations
so far. I left feeling so inspired and calm, and
I am definitely going to come back to this episode
when I need to hear it. So I hope it
was the same for you. If you guys are enjoying
Post Run High, please be sure to follow us on
socials at Post Run High and me at Kate Max and.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Leave us a five star review.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Your support helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
All right, I'll see you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
Abou

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