May 25, 2022 • 45 mins
Fresh off their honeymoon, Jonathan and Jaymes are joined by the one and only Peppermint! She talks about how a pandemic journal entry and Stouffer’s frozen pizzas turned into a 3 album journey about handling love, and they discuss how Peppermint continues to be a trailblazing role model for the trans community. They discuss their Drag Race All Stars All Winners predictions and Peppermint shares what PRIDE means and how anyone can be a part of it. And she shares how both the cisgender and transgender communities can be better allies.All that plus Peppermint reveals her superpower!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Pridecast with Jonathan Bennett James Bak on I
Heart Radio. Hey, what's up everybody. It's Jonathan Bennett and
this is I Heart Radio's Pridecast, your weekly dose of love, laughter,
and hopefully a little inspiration and a reminder to be
(00:24):
proud of who you are. I am joined, of course,
by my handsome, hunky hot Hey, that's a literation. Three
h is handsome, hunky, hot husband, Hames Han, This is
Hames What if what if your name was Hames Han?
And then it was five h H haymes Han. Actually
(00:46):
it's James Vaughan, but you know the rest. We just
got back from our honeymoon. And this is how he
chooses to engage. Yes, he after such a magical week.
We had such a magical week, and it's even more
magical right now. How am I not engaging you by
saying what if your name was haymes Han? First of all,
I called you hot. I called you hot, I called
(01:07):
you hunky, I called you handsome. Where's tell me where
the downfall is in that conversation? Just call me kind
and say that you love me, and I'm good. You're
kind of a hot, hunky, handsome husband. That's four h is.
I know I've had a lot of ice coffee because
when James is gone, I don't have a censor on
(01:28):
my Starbucks ice coffee intake. So this is my second
Venti ice coffee of the day, which, by the way,
real quick news flash, if anyone knows of this, there's
now chocolate malt powder at Starbucks that you can put
in your ice coffees. I highly recommend you do it here.
This sound right here, that sound right there, that's for you.
(01:49):
But we're not together right now because whilst enjoying our
magical honeymoon, my mom got sick and she got the
VID vaccinated please get back a little time in the hospital,
and so I had to fly up to Virginia, cutting
things a little short to come make sure she's okay.
So my baby went home. He's taking care of the
(02:11):
dog and I'm here in Virginia helping take care of mom,
which my brothers have been doing a fantastic job of prior.
And uh, it means we're separated and I can't moderate
Jonathan's iced coffee and takes. I'm so sorry, everybody, but
we did have a really magical honeymoon. We did have
a really wonderful time. We went on the Carnival Marty Grawl,
which is the biggest ship they got. Oh my gosh,
(02:33):
it's huge. There's a water slide, there's roller coasters. We
literally had seven days of just absolute fun. And I
get it why carnivals like tagline is Funderstruck. It's because
when you go, I said, funderstruck, guys, not not anything else, funderstruck.
Get it, like fun instead of thunder funder, you get
Funderstruck on Carnival, and you really do like it is
(02:55):
they've perfected the science of people going on a boat
and having fun for a week. They do everything right.
No notes. I have no notes, and usually James and
I are the gays that have notes. Were like, that
was great, but we have like a list of notes
because we can't help ourselves. No, no, you know it
was beautiful about it for me too, though, Babies and
we went on there as a gay couple and I
never once felt like we were welcome and safety be
(03:19):
ourselves the entire time. And that says a lot of
progress because I sang on ships eighteen years ago and
it didn't always feel like that. And I really didn't
know what was gonna happen this time around, and it
was really nice to feel like we were welcome, not
despite you know, everybody at Carnival, but the passengers. We
played the newly Weed game and everyone and we when
we stole the show like it was it was so
(03:40):
cool we played the Newlywed game in front of everybody,
like you know, just and what I love is that
some of the other employees there are some of the
other staff members said, you know sometimes like they have
gay couples, lesbian couples up for the Newlywed game, and
that's just a normal thing, which I think is so
cool for Carnival because when you see it and you
understand that people are married and there in love. Maybe
(04:01):
this is the first time that people on that ship
have been around someone that was out that they know of,
because you don't know where people come from when they
come to ships like this, So it's really it's really
cool that Carnival does that. Well. Backing up, I want
to go into this newly web game. I want to
go into the how you used to work on the
ships when eighteen years ago James used to work on
Carnival ships singing when the ships would still row, like
(04:23):
when they were still rowing to get the ships to
point eight to point b like James out there like
rowing the ship. Somebody please drive to our place and
get that home. Springs, Baby, come get my eyes coffee.
Come on. So the newly Web game, what happens is
there's three couples on stage right, So there's the newly weds,
there's the people that have been married for some times
and people have been married for the longest time of
(04:43):
anybody on the cruise. So it ends up being like
an older couple, got a middle aged couple, and the
newly weds. And what was really fun about it? What
do you remember the moment in the show baby, when
everybody was given answers, they ask crazy questions like if
you They ask them if they what's the weirdest place where,
what's the most exciting place you've ever had ice cream?
(05:04):
Which is And then they said, Baby, you did not
say that. First of all, Second of all, oh my gosh,
I'm so sorry. I'm embarrassed. Uh, this is why I
have to be there with you when we do these.
And third, um, there are other questions were like, um,
(05:25):
if if you were getting a thousand dollars for every
time ice cream this this week? How much ice cream?
How much money would you have? Um, which somehow we
had different answers, but that's what makes it funny. And
there was a point when everybody had picked something that
like you're all playful, right, so like it's not you're
not really mad, but it's sort of like everybody's mad.
And the guys that were from the other two straight
(05:45):
couples both came over and joined me, like I was
the prime pick of who you would want to be with.
But it was really cute in that moment that like
nobody saw like gay couple, straight couple, any of that,
and like I just chose. There is progress so beautiful
because like Evan was just having a good time with us,
and these guys were so comfortable and their heterosexuality that
they could come over and play and joke with me.
(06:07):
One of the dudes pick me up. So and so
we would like to announce now that we're in a
throuble with Bob from Indiana and his wife. So it's
a it's a quadruple. All that is not real. That's
not real. That's all. Put the coffee down. I'm sorry.
Hold on, I can't. I gotta keep But do you
know what we did, James on the way home from
from the honeymoon. We do know what we did. Let's
(06:28):
tell about what we did. We both got to watch
on separate planes the first two episodes of All Stars,
the winner season of Drag Race, which is a great
segue into who our guest is today. Coming up is Peppermint,
who was a huge star on her season and is
doing so much now. But before we get to her
and all the wonderful things she's doing. So proud of her,
(06:50):
let's talk about these super stuff Oh my god, All
Stars and oh my gosh, what it's like to see
eight winners on the screen at one time. It's probably
like this is what heaven feels like. It's this is it?
Like this is as good as it gets in the world.
People like we get to watch this season. We are
so addicted to drag Race, and I'm so addicted to
(07:14):
this season already. Like the first episode was fierce, but
the second episode. If you haven't seen the Snatch Game,
let's just talk about the snatch game, because it is
a masterclass in how to do snatch game. It's the
best snatch game I've ever seen. It's why I woke
up that day. It's why I'm alive this year is
for this actual episode because like Jinx Monsoon and everybody,
(07:36):
I mean everybody in the entire cast just crushed it.
And even certain people that weren't crushing it crushed it
by not crushing it. It's hard to explain. You just
have to see the episode, but it was just so fun.
And what I love about this this season of All
Stars is that there's there's a certain confidence with all
the queens on the show. And I love that because
(08:00):
it's the difference like for example, like I know there's
gonna be a weird equation, but like when I do
my Hallmark movie that The Christmas House, you have like
Sharon Lawrence, Treat Williams, Robert Buckley, Anna, like everybody in
the cast has worked for decades. They've established themselves and
they're very comfortable with who they are in the entertainment world.
(08:20):
And it shows on screen and it shows like in
between takes, and like this cast when you watch them,
you know a lot of times when you have a
new season to drag race, there's a lot of insecurities
that pop up with the Queens because obviously it's the
first time on television they want to win. Their insecure
already just because they're being, you know, exposing themselves in
(08:41):
this like very vulnerable way to go on this show
and like kind of show who they are. It's a
very vulnerable place to be. And with that comes insecurity,
and with insecurity comes in energy and a vibration that
isn't appealing sometimes and here to get to see everyone
just sit and be grounded in who they are in
this world. They're all winners. It just makes it so
(09:02):
much fun for the audience to watch. Well, but I
think what the words you're looking for here is what
the great poet Channgelolcuifa Wadley said, professional. You are looking
at girls who are all professionals. That's what it is like.
Even when you watch like a Scape, when Jada has
Insall is doing this version of prints that is so
not print, but she has such a confidence to her
(09:24):
that you don't care he's not doing prints, because you're like,
I just want to watch you do whatever you're doing
right now, because you're so cool in this moment, and
they all have that. It's just it's really fun to
see because we never get to see that. And that's
why I'm still glad they're eliminating no one and we
get to see everybody have this journey. And I when
when Jings mon Soon starts to teach a class about comedy,
(09:46):
I'm going to be the first one to sign up
for it because Jens Monsoon is I bound down to
her as the best comedic draug queen I've ever seen. Yeah,
well that's when on season five when she was on,
that's when I fell in love with her. But she
get a little Eatie there's and I know who a
little Eatie was, but it was the most hilarious thing
I've ever How would you not know who little Eatie was?
Because I hadn't seen Greg guards Baby? And then it
(10:09):
was still kind of I'm sorry to take away my
gay card. It was boring. I couldn't get through it
like I'd rather. I'd rather watch Jinks. We create every
scene from Greg Baby Baby. We don't need to take
away your gay card. Everyone. Let me tell you he's
pretty good. He does some pretty good things. Let me
just say that, all right, And that our first guest
(10:30):
and only guests, because we only have one guest in episode,
the one and only Fabulous Peppermint, who will be with
us right after this. Alright, we are joined by the
one and only l G B t Q plus Icon.
(10:52):
I mean I would say icon, right, you would just
say icon plus plus plus icon legend. Maybe I think
all of the above. The one and only Miss Pepperman
joins us on Pridecast. Welcome. I love that you just
(11:12):
slid into frame on the screen too. You gave dramatic entrance.
I mean, we're so excited to be talking to you.
I mean, you are Gosh, besides the talent, you're such
a trailblazer, and you're you're an activists and you're just
a voice for the community in so many ways. And
it's just such an honor to have you here. Thank you,
Thank you for joining us. Well, thank you for having me.
(11:33):
That's such I hope I can live up to this praise.
Oh girl, you already have you already have? Well? Because
all right, So Jonathan was like a New York kid
back in the day in the scene, so like nos
a Peppermint, and then me, being the biggest drag Race
fan in the entire world, was a huge Peppermint stand
during that phase of your life and then now with
(11:55):
everything that you're doing, I think, just like beyond both
of us the world as a peppermint. Stand, what do
we even dive into first? When you're so accomplished and
have so many projects happening right now, I mean, every
burner is full for you girl. Well, I mean we
can start anywhere you want. I'm used to taking all
types of angles, and I mean, let's start with you know,
(12:20):
we should start with So we were driving around town
listening to the album Part two is out. Let's talk.
Let's talk about the music, because I mean, that's that's
such a big thing with what you've got going on
right now, with your touring, with the moment of weakness,
letters to my lovers and yeah, you know, thank you
(12:41):
for that. I well listen during the pandemic, in addition
to rediscovering Stow first French bread pizza, can we just
it was delicious? It was a moment for me during
the pandemic. I had just gotten off of UM, out
of a uh, very robust relationship, romantic relationship where I
(13:05):
was in love and uh my heart was broken. So
I don't know if it was a pandemic or the breakup.
But I was eating that print by a pizza. And
when I wasn't eating a pizza, I was. I just
took the moment to write down every all the feelings,
the ups and downs, the good, the bag and the
ugly into my what. It became three full diaries of
(13:31):
feelings and emotions uh. And then I ended up eventually
tweaking those all into three albums worth of songs uh,
which represents the beginning, the middle, and of course the
end of that relationship. Um, and I set it to music,
and the rest is firstory, the whole, the whole project.
(13:51):
The relationship is called Letters to My Lovers, but each
installment has a different title. So it's the first one
was a girl like Me Letters to My Lovers. This one,
of course, this Moment of Weakness, which is basically moment
of weakness. The song and sort of the title is
about that moment where you're gonna break up or you're
you're broken up, and the first time you see your
(14:14):
ex after the breakup, like what's going to happen? Is
it like an awkward Oh you look good? Or is
it like you know, how dare you? And you stab
them and go to jail. I don't know what's gonna happen,
or like maybe you're just started having sex on the floor.
Who knows. I'm down for all of it. Yeah, you're like,
I'm not against any of them, all our all our
(14:34):
possible outcomes. But no, no, there's no there's three. There's
two volumes. Will be a third, correct, there will be
a third. The third one is called validation, which is
about my It's basically the rising from the ashes, after
completely relationship and after the the after the healing has
started to take place. Uh. And so that's validation and
(14:55):
that comes out next year. And is this all about
when they see his head letters my lovers? Is this
all the same person or is it all based on
the same person or is it multiple versions multiple lovers
that we need three volumes because you said birds, you
said lovers. I was like, there's three volumes. We we
got wet, we need some rooms to say. I'm based
(15:16):
on the context of the songs like I need who
Hurt You? It could be that I was feeling so
many different ways, in so many different feelings with this
one person. He treated me. He was completely different person
the day we met than he was the day we
broke up. Maybe that the different lovers, or maybe it
(15:36):
is that these experiences were kind of um reminiscent of
previous experiences and I needed to call to sort of
um uh look to my past in order to figure
out how to navigate the present in the future. Uh.
And these are all different types of experiences all rolled
into one. Of course, there's a lot of things that
I would have said to my ex boyfriend that I
(15:59):
would have said it, or have said to previous lovers
in the past. But ultimately, I think realistically UM, as
a trans woman, and it's certainly as queer people, I
think we are in some in some ways less equipped
to navigate the world of love and relationships. If you
look at um, you know, film and television and entertainment
(16:19):
and society and commercials and books and everything we take
in as sort of a preparation for life. Then of
course romantic how to be a good husband, how to
be a good wife, even though there's no quick you know,
fixed for that. I think folks who are not in
the clear community UM get a certain type of training, uh,
(16:41):
just through living life and and maybe seeing their their
family members and their parents as sort of a model.
But I think queer people have less of a model
that's out in public to be able to kind of
do it in maybe less conventional ways. Um. Certainly as
a trans woman, there is not really any experience of
of seeing my off reflected, let alone seeing someone love
(17:02):
a trans person. I think if you think of a transperson,
you think of us as individuals, not surrounded by anyone
that we love. No one loves us. We're just alone
and we're just doing our thing. And maybe two were
strong teachers who teach people about, you know, being valiant,
but we don't necessarily have people that are connected to
us who talk about loving us in ways um, in
(17:25):
many different ways. And so that was really important for
me to put into an album to show folks that
it is possible, to show trans folks it's possible to
be loved and receive love, but even more importantly, to
show others that it is possible and good to talk
about your love of trans people publicly. I love that,
(17:45):
and I imagine it's got to be so therapeutic because
like it's twofold, so you are healing through writing this music,
but at the same time you are inspiring and letting
other people feel seen and be seen by your music.
I mean, how how it's got to feel good? Right,
Like it said that all that has got to feel good. Oh,
it definitely does. It feels good to be you know.
(18:07):
I think I've had these feelings obviously for a while,
but no one was really interested in I don't know
if anyone's interested in hearing it today, but they definitely
weren't interested in hearing it years ago, right, And so
no one was running. There was no space in the
world where you could listen to find a black trans
woman singing about her experience and singing R and B
(18:27):
nineties R and B. Yes, yes, could not find that.
And so I'm providing it and it feels great. I mean,
but that's the thing. You sit here and you say,
you know from your experience, you you didn't have any
anyone to look up to, You never heard anyone telling
these stories. You realize with you, Peppermint, that ends today.
(18:49):
That is no longer a thing, that is a fact,
that is now history because you have changed history. You
are the person doing it. You are humanizing the experience.
You're humanizing the experience and showing, hey, here's what I
am as a human being with feelings with heart, with
with with emotions, where you know, it's not a spectacle. Yeah,
(19:10):
you know, And I think I wanted to take that
step for so long. I was I was afraid to
be the one to do that because I know that
people love me from drag race and they love like
I had a little lip sync moment and they want
that fierceness and they just want some glitter and just
be on stage and make us feel what we're telling
you we want us to feel. But you know, and
(19:30):
those things are great, honey. I love the art of drag.
Once a queen, always the queen, but even the queens
have feelings, the same feelings as everybody else. We want
to be loved, We want to be authored and cherished
more than just by fans that are like throwing money
and don't believe me, do not stop throwing the money.
But we'll put at the end. Yeah, hello, let me
(19:55):
talk about the some of the things and that are
that we go through. And I think the certainly the
trend has been moving in the right direction over the
past decade or so in terms of being progressive, um,
but definitely post there's a lot more conversations that everyone
(20:18):
is involved already or interested in having that they weren't
prior to, and I'm just taking advantage of that. Well.
And if when you think Peppermint, you think first in
all these spaces, you were the first girl to come
out as trans on Drag Race? Am I correct with that?
(20:38):
I'm the first? It's it gets kind of muddy on
the show. Uh yeah, prior, I guess. The important note
is that I was out as trans prior to ever
even going to the show. And then so I walked
into the workroom completely already just out. Now the controversy
(20:59):
for a lot of people is that they don't think
I looked like they didn't believe me because they don't
look like I was trans. I don't even know what
that means, but uh, that is there the there cross
to bear. It's on record, I was out, um, And
it feels good to have been able to contribute to
some of that narrative because certainly when I went on
(21:20):
the show, um, and before I went on the show,
there was not a lot of uh, it's not it wasn't.
It wasn't like it is today today, Like literally today,
season fourteen, we have you know, five out on the show.
The winner is an out trans woman. Uh. And they
all came out mostly during the process of the show,
(21:41):
I believe, um. And it just feels so great that
we can have a space for different types of identities
that can come out in their own time, in their
own way, when they're ready. And one of the things
that I think was really interesting and just really touching
and really resonated with me. It's specifically given my my
experience with track Race having to balance am I am I?
(22:03):
Am I a good spokesperson for the community, amy making
them proud? And I representing myself well, am I doing
to myself dirty? Um? Am I am I a good
trans woman to look up to? Or am I am
I being a good representation? Or would I be proud
of myself? Like all of these questions that you asked,
am I being a good queen? Because sometimes back especially
back in there were there was a lot of your
(22:25):
either a drag queen or a trans woman and there's
nothing linking it. Um. And so I was like wrestling
with all that on my season. So seeing all of
the trans representation, but specifically during the finale, this corn
bread coming out and dressed in sort of a beauty
and the beast milange of the two. Um, I thought
(22:46):
was beautiful because what she had to say about it
was that, you know, the the the beauty of being
trans has nothing, has less to do with what surgeries
you've had and what you look like on the outside
and whether people believe that you're a beauty of a
woman or not, and just about who you are. And
so beauty isn't if I have the beholder and it
comes from within. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, and I don't
(23:07):
mean to stick words in her mouth, but that's basically
what she was conveying. And so I thought that was
just really beautiful. Well, yeah, because it is evolving and
we're all learning, Like as as fans of the show,
we're learning a lot of stuff too. As somebody myself
from the South, I feel like it was kind of
different in our clubs. I feel like the trans girls
were represented a lot when you went to see a
drag show, So like I just knew that world and
(23:30):
that just kind of made sense to me, and I
don't realized there were a lot of people that didn't
know that those girls were in this world and killing
it in this world. And I, um, you wanna talk
about not saying somebody's words with them. I don't want
to tell her story, but I moderated the panel for
a season two of Drag Race a Dragon a couple
of years back, and this was pre All Stars, and
Kylie is a good friend of mine, and we got
(23:51):
talking a little bit about what her experience was like
on her season when she basically I don't want to
get the wrong words, which wasn't allowed to be herself
and she wasn't allowed to continue to grow into herself
if she wanted to be a part of that process.
So they that to me just blew my mind because
I was like, whoa, Like this is like I remember
being os and in New Orleans and like that's that's
(24:13):
just these girls were always performing. They were part of
the drag scene. It was it blew my mind that
these girls were not in the mainstream yet. So then
to fast forward to see that her snatch the crown
at All Stars being her full authentic self and Peppermin,
I mean, I just gotta say, like it is it's
girls like you that like stepped up and just you
were yourself on the show and you made people go
oh okay, because sometimes it's just that sometimes it's just
(24:36):
being you and people seeing you because they haven't had
the chance to see someone like you anywhere yet, and
then it clicks and they go, oh, oh oh, I
was stupid. Okay, I'm sorry, all right, moving on, this
is what it is now, And like you were at
the forefront of that, so like I do have to
really appology you for that. As somebody who is a
big fan of the show and a big fan of
trans girls and drag, I'm just really happy to be
(24:57):
a part of that legacy. And I'm so proud of Kylie,
and I'm so proud of it. Feels like it's just
just her, just desserts coming back and Snatchally yes, certainly
been an originator on the show. Uh. And it just
goes to show that even though there was um controversy
and and some a little bit of tention about whether
or not we belong on the show or should be
(25:18):
or could be, or whether it made sense or what's
going to happen, here we are and we are dominating
and it makes the show better, It makes everything better.
I want every show to have a trans person on there,
because that's life, right exactly, That's his life. Yeah, I
mean that's what I feel like my baby does with
with his Hallmark movies. It's the same thing and just
show people something that you haven't seen so we can click.
(25:40):
It's the same thing that always happened with my family.
My family like didn't understand, like they were so anti
gay and so homophobic, and then like they just saw
me come out and being a loving relationship and it
was like light bobs. Oh, okay, alright, because we've seen it.
So we're in a really unique special time in life
where we're getting to be those people that just live
(26:00):
our lives authentically and loudly and help change people in
their minds and hearts because of that. So I think
we're all really fortunate. I think we are talking because
Peppermint is making history. Speaking of history, we have l
g B t Q plus history. When we come back
after this break, we'll be right back alright, Peppermint. So
(26:26):
what we love to do on podcast is we like
to talk about l g B t Q plus history,
little moments in l g B t Q plus history,
because if we want to know where we're going, we
have to always remember where we came from. So we
like to do a segment we call this week and
gay History. We're about the school you, Peppermint. This one's
really special to me as somebody that attends Gay Days
(26:49):
at Disney I think this is really cool. So in
nineteen seventy eight, this week in l g B t
Q plus History, more than fifteen thousand gay men and
lesbians attended a special gay night at Disneyland to benefit
the Los Angeles Gay Community Services Center. It's the largest
private party that the theme park has ever had. According
(27:10):
to the research that was done by our producers. Someone
go witham is that that that sounds like a lot,
but in they did that, That's that's amazing. And I
certainly believe that our community would show up and show out.
And I love stuff like that because that's the predecessor
two things like Gay Days, two things like the events
that we were able to go. I just remember the
first time going and like being a Disney and like
(27:33):
every time you saw a red shirt, it was like, oh,
I'm not alone. Oh there's there's more of us, And
it just made you feel stronger and stronger about yourself.
And like now fast forward, like I mean, obviously we're
so I'm proud of we don't care what I'm being
like a little twenty year old and seeing those red
shirts and feeling safe. So I love that that happened
in history. Ever been to a Gay Days. I haven't
(27:55):
been to Gay Days, at least not in Disney for sure. Um,
but I'm I'm and and this I'm just so happy,
especially hearing this historic moment that this is our entire
day in history. Um. And then I didn't realize that
had been going on since the nineteen But I'm really
happy that, you know, this year, with a lot of
(28:16):
the conversation that had gone place publicly in Florida with
Governor de Santis and don't say gaybel uh to see Disney,
you know, uh coming out strong uh m too, you know,
in support of the lgbt Q plus community. Um. Even
(28:37):
though it looks like the story, the story is not finished.
There's gonna be some more um happening about that. But
it just feels so great to see them actually, um
what I believe, standing on the right side of history.
And so yeah, I've never been to a Gay Days. UM,
and I know I don't know if that's the same well,
because that also one magical weekend. I think like I
(28:57):
think they all kind of happened to the same. I'm listen.
I'm not the thought dative spokes It is a magical weekend. Yeah,
it's I think that's separate. You put a few, It's magical.
Let me tell you, love is gonna be found, Love
is going to be lost. Pepperman is going to create
(29:18):
volume four of Let Us to Her Lovers. Now we're
sitting here talking about all the things here on pridecasts
that all the accomplishments that you've done, Peppermint, all the
things that you're going to do, And it's all about
being proud of yourself. Here on podcasts, it's about being
proud of who you are. That's why we do podcasts.
(29:38):
So we asked this question, what does pride mean to you?
Is it feels like I have the opportunity, thankfully, to
have a different answer to that question every year, every
time I think about it, every time I'm asked. Um.
And so of course it's about community. Of course, it's
(29:59):
a out being able to be yourself, uh freely and
safely and sort of out loud. Uh. And so this
year Pride for me is really about being able to
uh do all of those things and also focus on
allowing those who love us, whether it's a family member,
(30:23):
romantic partner, society, to do it just publicly. There's a
there's a quote that I'd like to say. It just
resonates with me every time I even say it. Um.
It's a quote by Cornell West who says justice is
what love looks like in public. And it really just
(30:44):
resonates with me because there are so many moments where
our community needs justice. When we're talking about LGBT youth,
gay youth, trans youth, and in states like Florida, Texas, Alabama, Uh,
you know, South Dakota, you name it, there's lots uh.
And these anti trans and anti queer bills that are
being proposed to keep keep lgbto youth, LGBT youth from
(31:09):
gaining access to sports, to healthcare, to bathrooms again, uh,
to all of these different things. In addition to the
impending Roe v. Wade decision which looks like it might
not turn out the way we want, um, which is
you know, abortion access and reproductive justice is a queer issue.
(31:29):
It is a trans issue as well as a women's issue. Um.
You know, all of these things happening, those things, to
me are the opposite of justice, and so that quote
really resonates with me, and I think we could use
some public love. People to talk about us and beam
about us publicly. And that's why you know, um, I
(31:49):
mean that, that's why this this album that I have,
it's just it feels like it's just at the right time.
And so I'll be beaming with pride this June and
July when I'm on tour, singing these songs in public
for people to see. Hopefully it will be another page
of their tours are their Pride experience, because I know
that for a lot of people, especially the early days
(32:10):
of Pride is about going out and just like you know,
losing yourself in the crowd. Um. But then there are
other opportunities for people to really engage and have an
intimate experience, and I'm excited to be able to provide that.
Isn't it interesting how pride changes every single year, Like
we hear, we think we know what it is, and
then it next year You're like, oh no, but's something
(32:32):
completely different now. And that's what I love about queer
community is that it's always ever changing. It's never the
same place, it's ever in the same place. Each year,
it's always different because we're learning more about each other.
Because of people like Pepperminten doing what they're doing, and
and all the activism that's going on, your people are
able to grow and change and learn, and the whole
community just expands as a whole. And it's so beautiful. Yeah.
(32:56):
I just I'm listening to talk and I'm still processing
everything that you said about like loving you and building
you up and all that. What else can we do?
What else? Not only like the cis gendered people in
the queer community, but it's SIS gendered people in general.
What can we do to be better activists for the
trans community to help progress continue? I mean, just being
(33:21):
open is certainly of a great first step, I think
in terms of like publicly and social media, just uplifting
someone in your life whose trans. It's really is interesting
because a lot of people, according to a pupil now
of people in the United States say that they do
not know someone personally who is trans, which is like,
(33:44):
that's a lot of people, and that's most of the people,
and so a lot of people may not have the
opportunity to sort of meet or uplift somebody who is
in their life whose trans because they don't know them. Uh,
And so what the people who do know someone who
is hands or even in the queer community should do. Um,
I think it's just talk about those people publicly again,
(34:06):
uplift them publicly, and give them opportunities for jobs, consider
them for different types of things, because we are more
than just entertainers, were more than just people in Hollywood,
were more than just that girl who does the show
at the thing. You know, these you know, trans women
of color, specifically black trans women, are at the losing
(34:26):
end of the terrible lopsided murders rates and statistics you know,
um there I think been have so far this year.
I don't know how many. The number of murders of
trans women of color, um and trans people overall in
the United States just seems to rise every year, gets
(34:47):
higher and higher every year, which is terrible. And a
lot of those crimes and acts of violence are committed
by our partners, are romantic partners, are boyfriends, are lovers,
and so you know, that's that's not really a site
bright and sunny outlook. But you know, what people can
(35:07):
do is not change someone. If somebody comes around and
brings their transgender girlfriend or boyfriend, accept them and invite
them into the fold just like you would anybody else,
and creating spaces for our partners and the people who
love us to feel free to do that without feeling
judged or Um. It's sort of like the internalized sort
(35:27):
of homophobia and transphobia happens around the notion of being
the lover of a trans person. And if we could
try to remove that as society, UM, and the people
who are outside of the queer community stop doing that,
and people inside of the queer community do that to
our partners as well. People I'm not gay, I'm a
straight woman. Surprised, UM, And I think that's that actually
(35:48):
comes as a surprise to a lot of people. Absolutely.
I think that speaks a lot to your heart though,
pepper Man, like, that's what we could do, and you said,
I hope our partners feel supported. I mean, that's that's beautiful,
the truth your heart goes there, show right, craps to
you for that. You may make me fit all warm
and fuzzy and sweet over here. And I have a
really important question I want to ask you, Peppermint, all
(36:09):
stars you have you have to pick one? Wait, the
the all winter season, right, now you do season I'm
going to do it all stars if you if you said, okay,
magic wand Boom, that's my choice, who is it going
to be? If I could just choose today, not having
seen any of the seen the show, just like hey, Boom,
magic wand there the Magic rou wand and also not
(36:30):
not knowing and some of the tea that I know,
but t aside hello, um, I would probably say, I mean, honestly,
I'm torn between. I mean, they're so, they're also great,
they're also very but I'm torn between two, uh, my
(36:51):
niece mona exchange or either of my Season nine sisters
training to the Talk or unjustifiably so on all those accounts,
your niece, your season also you know I peramental leader
Safe answers in that he was like, I know him
(37:13):
because no one's gonna shame her. Said, uh, they're gonna say, oh,
you picked your niece in your season, Okay, we'll get her.
No one's gonna come atterr. How did you not pick
this person? How did you say that? Why would you
say that? Like, no one's gonna come after her? And
you know what, we support you. Well, I'm gonna make
you do this because you have no no way to
get out of this, so people can tell you shouldn't
have picked a favorite. I'll go ahead. I'm gonna say
(37:34):
it on record because I shaol Sorry, I'm gonna say
it on record, Shae Cooler. I just think she's superstar.
From the minute she walked in on your season, She's
just a dag on superstar. When her All Star season
happened and she pumped in, I was like, well, that's
cute for everybody else to come play and enjoy and
have a good time. This will be fun to watch.
But this is SA season. I just think she's spectacular
(37:56):
and she's a superstar. So like my money, if you
made me bet right now would be you don't gotta
say anything, Peppermint. I know you know Tea, and I
know these are people that you care about in their
family and stuff. But like, I'm gonna put my money
on it. I put my money on Willow Pill even
though she's not on that I know, but I'm still
putting my money on it because she can pop out
of a box. I mean, I just pray that maybe
she'll she a Oh my god, I love her so much. No,
(38:22):
that's a cop out answer. No, it's the best answer
because I'm always gonna be a willow fan UM Peppermint
before you go. We we ask everyone the same question
because we think it's important. There's so many times that
we talked about our community and say how hard it is,
and and we we are honest about the struggles that
we are going through because they are real. But on
the other side of those struggles and on the other
(38:43):
side of everything, there is light, and there is hope
and there are amazing things. So we ask you, what
is your favorite thing about being part of the lgbt
Q plus community. What's your favorite thing about being queer?
I had the I had the chance to listen to
Dr Angela davie Us recently after having UM spoken with
(39:04):
her on black Bear Town Hall, which is a um
AN event that I put together with Block the Tracking,
and Dr Angela Davis, who is queer part of the
queer community, says that uh, she believes that trans people
and specifically trans people but also gender nonconforming people UM
(39:29):
have a certain freedom from the very very oppressive binary
of gender that allows us to look outside of the
box and we and perhaps shows us us meaning humanity
sort of an option for the future that's free of
some of the stuff that gender roles uh and the
(39:52):
patriarchy um put stifle us with. And so I think
that's my favorite thing. I do think even though the
price that we pay for being free and open and
really um at sometimes self content and knowledgeable about who
(40:12):
we are, more knowledge about who we are and more
connected to our own authenticity, the price for that in
the in some in many situations is being bullied in
school as a younger person, having some tough times with
family as a younger person. And I don't want to
reduce that because that is also character building. Uh. But
I do think my superpower is having sort of this
(40:35):
opened up sense of who I am and those around
me that I wouldn't I don't know that i'd even
be looking to find or have access to if I
were sis gender and heterosexual and not a part of
the queer community, because everything would be sort of prescribed
for me. And in that with our superpower, that's the
(40:56):
word I always use it is a superpower. Girl. We're
we're fortunate, We're like, we have the superpower, and when
people like you use them for such good, it's how
the world changes. Before we go we like to shout
out people in our community. In a segment we call
Me and James Shining are big gay spotlight on people
of the l g b t Q plus community that
(41:18):
are doing awesome things. So James tell us about this
week's big gay Spotlight. I didn't really take good notes
on it because I was I was. It's it's a
it's a book with a lot of pictures, and I
thought it was really cool. But so check this out.
So gay author Eric ross Wood, uh it did this
book cause he wants lgbt Q plus kids to believe
in themselves. So it's that. It's a children's picture book.
It's called Strong and it tells the story of Rob Kearney.
(41:40):
Maybe I showed you him before. Rob Kearney is that
powerlifter guy that wears like the bright colors and has
the bright hair and he's I think, um, he's the
first openly gay strong man in the sport of you know,
the strong man stuff like lifting all the things. I
can put airplane or I can lift a bus. But
the book is all about how like he's not being
bright and colorful. And then he meets the guy who
(42:03):
tells him, hey, you're special. I'll be bright and colorful
with you, so you feel strong enough to be bright
and colorful yourself. And it's just I mean, not even
for LGBTQ, plus for any kid out there to hear
that message of you can be bright, you can shine,
you can be different, and look there's people that will
love you for it and do it with you, and
(42:24):
you can still end you're strong. Being bright does not
mean that you are not strong. Yeah, absolutely, I love
to think that's I think that's beautiful. So big gay
spotlight on author Eric Rosswood, but also on on Rob
Kearney the strong Man that it's based on both the
y'all thanks for being so fabulous and living loudly so
I can shine my big gay spotlight on you and
not to put you on pressure, not to put you
(42:45):
on the spot, Peppermint, but uh, you got you. Anybody
you want to shine your your big trans spotlight on
that's that's doing something amazing out there that you would
love to just shout out. You just want to say, hey, Mike,
I see you, Hey, I see you right now. I
am into Uh this person is not a transperience, but
my spotlight can go on everybody. Um is an Arthur
(43:08):
Sonya Rene Taylor, who also is UM. You can find
her very very fabulous UH musings on her Instagram and
social media where she comments on everything going on. I
just really enjoy her style of delivery and teaching. This
is it's not a children's UH person necessarily, but they
(43:29):
are doing some great work in the community. Sonya Renee Taylor.
Check her out and her Taylor. No, I just followed her.
Just follow her right now. Hope we're gonna follow back.
I just wanted to want those followers just follow follow
her a followback. Okay, here we go. Before we let
you go though, because you have all the stuff coming
(43:50):
up in the tour now that we want to make
sure that if anybody is sitting at home taking copious
notes and doesn't know how to jump on the Google
to jump on your Instagram and get the information, how
can they see you on tour? UM people can just
go to my website Peppermint online dot com slash events
for tickets. Uh. The tort kicks off in July UM
in Chicago, and I'm from Chicago, I'm not from that's
(44:14):
for the drag race fans in you. Yeah, July two,
it kicks off we're going all over the country to Georgia,
well at cities all over the country, Atlanta, Oakland and
Los Angeles, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Philly, Boston and of course Brooklyn,
New York, and so everybody's invited. Pepper we could literally
(44:36):
talk to you all day. You're so wonderful. Thank you
so much, Peppermint for joining us here on Pridecast and
all the history that you're making. Thank you on behalf
of us and the community for all that you do. Peppermint,
James and Jonathan. It is my absolute pleasure and I
was so excited to get the chance to chat with you.
By Pepperman Girl, by Bitch
This is Pridecast with Jonathan Bennett James Bak on I
Heart Radio. Hey, what's up everybody. It's Jonathan Bennett and
this is I Heart Radio's Pridecast, your weekly dose of love, laughter,
and hopefully a little inspiration and a reminder to be
(00:24):
proud of who you are. I am joined, of course,
by my handsome, hunky hot Hey, that's a literation. Three
h is handsome, hunky, hot husband, Hames Han, This is
Hames What if what if your name was Hames Han?
And then it was five h H haymes Han. Actually
(00:46):
it's James Vaughan, but you know the rest. We just
got back from our honeymoon. And this is how he
chooses to engage. Yes, he after such a magical week.
We had such a magical week, and it's even more
magical right now. How am I not engaging you by
saying what if your name was haymes Han? First of all,
I called you hot. I called you hot, I called
(01:07):
you hunky, I called you handsome. Where's tell me where
the downfall is in that conversation? Just call me kind
and say that you love me, and I'm good. You're
kind of a hot, hunky, handsome husband. That's four h is.
I know I've had a lot of ice coffee because
when James is gone, I don't have a censor on
(01:28):
my Starbucks ice coffee intake. So this is my second
Venti ice coffee of the day, which, by the way,
real quick news flash, if anyone knows of this, there's
now chocolate malt powder at Starbucks that you can put
in your ice coffees. I highly recommend you do it here.
This sound right here, that sound right there, that's for you.
(01:49):
But we're not together right now because whilst enjoying our
magical honeymoon, my mom got sick and she got the
VID vaccinated please get back a little time in the hospital,
and so I had to fly up to Virginia, cutting
things a little short to come make sure she's okay.
So my baby went home. He's taking care of the
(02:11):
dog and I'm here in Virginia helping take care of mom,
which my brothers have been doing a fantastic job of prior.
And uh, it means we're separated and I can't moderate
Jonathan's iced coffee and takes. I'm so sorry, everybody, but
we did have a really magical honeymoon. We did have
a really wonderful time. We went on the Carnival Marty Grawl,
which is the biggest ship they got. Oh my gosh,
(02:33):
it's huge. There's a water slide, there's roller coasters. We
literally had seven days of just absolute fun. And I
get it why carnivals like tagline is Funderstruck. It's because
when you go, I said, funderstruck, guys, not not anything else, funderstruck.
Get it, like fun instead of thunder funder, you get
Funderstruck on Carnival, and you really do like it is
(02:55):
they've perfected the science of people going on a boat
and having fun for a week. They do everything right.
No notes. I have no notes, and usually James and
I are the gays that have notes. Were like, that
was great, but we have like a list of notes
because we can't help ourselves. No, no, you know it
was beautiful about it for me too, though, Babies and
we went on there as a gay couple and I
never once felt like we were welcome and safety be
(03:19):
ourselves the entire time. And that says a lot of
progress because I sang on ships eighteen years ago and
it didn't always feel like that. And I really didn't
know what was gonna happen this time around, and it
was really nice to feel like we were welcome, not
despite you know, everybody at Carnival, but the passengers. We
played the newly Weed game and everyone and we when
we stole the show like it was it was so
(03:40):
cool we played the Newlywed game in front of everybody,
like you know, just and what I love is that
some of the other employees there are some of the
other staff members said, you know sometimes like they have
gay couples, lesbian couples up for the Newlywed game, and
that's just a normal thing, which I think is so
cool for Carnival because when you see it and you
understand that people are married and there in love. Maybe
(04:01):
this is the first time that people on that ship
have been around someone that was out that they know of,
because you don't know where people come from when they
come to ships like this, So it's really it's really
cool that Carnival does that. Well. Backing up, I want
to go into this newly web game. I want to
go into the how you used to work on the
ships when eighteen years ago James used to work on
Carnival ships singing when the ships would still row, like
(04:23):
when they were still rowing to get the ships to
point eight to point b like James out there like
rowing the ship. Somebody please drive to our place and
get that home. Springs, Baby, come get my eyes coffee.
Come on. So the newly Web game, what happens is
there's three couples on stage right, So there's the newly weds,
there's the people that have been married for some times
and people have been married for the longest time of
(04:43):
anybody on the cruise. So it ends up being like
an older couple, got a middle aged couple, and the
newly weds. And what was really fun about it? What
do you remember the moment in the show baby, when
everybody was given answers, they ask crazy questions like if
you They ask them if they what's the weirdest place where,
what's the most exciting place you've ever had ice cream?
(05:04):
Which is And then they said, Baby, you did not
say that. First of all, Second of all, oh my gosh,
I'm so sorry. I'm embarrassed. Uh, this is why I
have to be there with you when we do these.
And third, um, there are other questions were like, um,
(05:25):
if if you were getting a thousand dollars for every
time ice cream this this week? How much ice cream?
How much money would you have? Um, which somehow we
had different answers, but that's what makes it funny. And
there was a point when everybody had picked something that
like you're all playful, right, so like it's not you're
not really mad, but it's sort of like everybody's mad.
And the guys that were from the other two straight
(05:45):
couples both came over and joined me, like I was
the prime pick of who you would want to be with.
But it was really cute in that moment that like
nobody saw like gay couple, straight couple, any of that,
and like I just chose. There is progress so beautiful
because like Evan was just having a good time with us,
and these guys were so comfortable and their heterosexuality that
they could come over and play and joke with me.
(06:07):
One of the dudes pick me up. So and so
we would like to announce now that we're in a
throuble with Bob from Indiana and his wife. So it's
a it's a quadruple. All that is not real. That's
not real. That's all. Put the coffee down. I'm sorry.
Hold on, I can't. I gotta keep But do you
know what we did, James on the way home from
from the honeymoon. We do know what we did. Let's
(06:28):
tell about what we did. We both got to watch
on separate planes the first two episodes of All Stars,
the winner season of Drag Race, which is a great
segue into who our guest is today. Coming up is Peppermint,
who was a huge star on her season and is
doing so much now. But before we get to her
and all the wonderful things she's doing. So proud of her,
(06:50):
let's talk about these super stuff Oh my god, All
Stars and oh my gosh, what it's like to see
eight winners on the screen at one time. It's probably
like this is what heaven feels like. It's this is it?
Like this is as good as it gets in the world.
People like we get to watch this season. We are
so addicted to drag Race, and I'm so addicted to
(07:14):
this season already. Like the first episode was fierce, but
the second episode. If you haven't seen the Snatch Game,
let's just talk about the snatch game, because it is
a masterclass in how to do snatch game. It's the
best snatch game I've ever seen. It's why I woke
up that day. It's why I'm alive this year is
for this actual episode because like Jinx Monsoon and everybody,
(07:36):
I mean everybody in the entire cast just crushed it.
And even certain people that weren't crushing it crushed it
by not crushing it. It's hard to explain. You just
have to see the episode, but it was just so fun.
And what I love about this this season of All
Stars is that there's there's a certain confidence with all
the queens on the show. And I love that because
(08:00):
it's the difference like for example, like I know there's
gonna be a weird equation, but like when I do
my Hallmark movie that The Christmas House, you have like
Sharon Lawrence, Treat Williams, Robert Buckley, Anna, like everybody in
the cast has worked for decades. They've established themselves and
they're very comfortable with who they are in the entertainment world.
(08:20):
And it shows on screen and it shows like in
between takes, and like this cast when you watch them,
you know a lot of times when you have a
new season to drag race, there's a lot of insecurities
that pop up with the Queens because obviously it's the
first time on television they want to win. Their insecure
already just because they're being, you know, exposing themselves in
(08:41):
this like very vulnerable way to go on this show
and like kind of show who they are. It's a
very vulnerable place to be. And with that comes insecurity,
and with insecurity comes in energy and a vibration that
isn't appealing sometimes and here to get to see everyone
just sit and be grounded in who they are in
this world. They're all winners. It just makes it so
(09:02):
much fun for the audience to watch. Well, but I
think what the words you're looking for here is what
the great poet Channgelolcuifa Wadley said, professional. You are looking
at girls who are all professionals. That's what it is like.
Even when you watch like a Scape, when Jada has
Insall is doing this version of prints that is so
not print, but she has such a confidence to her
(09:24):
that you don't care he's not doing prints, because you're like,
I just want to watch you do whatever you're doing
right now, because you're so cool in this moment, and
they all have that. It's just it's really fun to
see because we never get to see that. And that's
why I'm still glad they're eliminating no one and we
get to see everybody have this journey. And I when
when Jings mon Soon starts to teach a class about comedy,
(09:46):
I'm going to be the first one to sign up
for it because Jens Monsoon is I bound down to
her as the best comedic draug queen I've ever seen. Yeah,
well that's when on season five when she was on,
that's when I fell in love with her. But she
get a little Eatie there's and I know who a
little Eatie was, but it was the most hilarious thing
I've ever How would you not know who little Eatie was?
Because I hadn't seen Greg guards Baby? And then it
(10:09):
was still kind of I'm sorry to take away my
gay card. It was boring. I couldn't get through it
like I'd rather. I'd rather watch Jinks. We create every
scene from Greg Baby Baby. We don't need to take
away your gay card. Everyone. Let me tell you he's
pretty good. He does some pretty good things. Let me
just say that, all right, And that our first guest
(10:30):
and only guests, because we only have one guest in episode,
the one and only Fabulous Peppermint, who will be with
us right after this. Alright, we are joined by the
one and only l G B t Q plus Icon.
(10:52):
I mean I would say icon, right, you would just
say icon plus plus plus icon legend. Maybe I think
all of the above. The one and only Miss Pepperman
joins us on Pridecast. Welcome. I love that you just
(11:12):
slid into frame on the screen too. You gave dramatic entrance.
I mean, we're so excited to be talking to you.
I mean, you are Gosh, besides the talent, you're such
a trailblazer, and you're you're an activists and you're just
a voice for the community in so many ways. And
it's just such an honor to have you here. Thank you,
Thank you for joining us. Well, thank you for having me.
(11:33):
That's such I hope I can live up to this praise.
Oh girl, you already have you already have? Well? Because
all right, So Jonathan was like a New York kid
back in the day in the scene, so like nos
a Peppermint, and then me, being the biggest drag Race
fan in the entire world, was a huge Peppermint stand
during that phase of your life and then now with
(11:55):
everything that you're doing, I think, just like beyond both
of us the world as a peppermint. Stand, what do
we even dive into first? When you're so accomplished and
have so many projects happening right now, I mean, every
burner is full for you girl. Well, I mean we
can start anywhere you want. I'm used to taking all
types of angles, and I mean, let's start with you know,
(12:20):
we should start with So we were driving around town
listening to the album Part two is out. Let's talk.
Let's talk about the music, because I mean, that's that's
such a big thing with what you've got going on
right now, with your touring, with the moment of weakness,
letters to my lovers and yeah, you know, thank you
(12:41):
for that. I well listen during the pandemic, in addition
to rediscovering Stow first French bread pizza, can we just
it was delicious? It was a moment for me during
the pandemic. I had just gotten off of UM, out
of a uh, very robust relationship, romantic relationship where I
(13:05):
was in love and uh my heart was broken. So
I don't know if it was a pandemic or the breakup.
But I was eating that print by a pizza. And
when I wasn't eating a pizza, I was. I just
took the moment to write down every all the feelings,
the ups and downs, the good, the bag and the
ugly into my what. It became three full diaries of
(13:31):
feelings and emotions uh. And then I ended up eventually
tweaking those all into three albums worth of songs uh,
which represents the beginning, the middle, and of course the
end of that relationship. Um, and I set it to music,
and the rest is firstory, the whole, the whole project.
(13:51):
The relationship is called Letters to My Lovers, but each
installment has a different title. So it's the first one
was a girl like Me Letters to My Lovers. This one,
of course, this Moment of Weakness, which is basically moment
of weakness. The song and sort of the title is
about that moment where you're gonna break up or you're
you're broken up, and the first time you see your
(14:14):
ex after the breakup, like what's going to happen? Is
it like an awkward Oh you look good? Or is
it like you know, how dare you? And you stab
them and go to jail. I don't know what's gonna happen,
or like maybe you're just started having sex on the floor.
Who knows. I'm down for all of it. Yeah, you're like,
I'm not against any of them, all our all our
(14:34):
possible outcomes. But no, no, there's no there's three. There's
two volumes. Will be a third, correct, there will be
a third. The third one is called validation, which is
about my It's basically the rising from the ashes, after
completely relationship and after the the after the healing has
started to take place. Uh. And so that's validation and
(14:55):
that comes out next year. And is this all about
when they see his head letters my lovers? Is this
all the same person or is it all based on
the same person or is it multiple versions multiple lovers
that we need three volumes because you said birds, you
said lovers. I was like, there's three volumes. We we
got wet, we need some rooms to say. I'm based
(15:16):
on the context of the songs like I need who
Hurt You? It could be that I was feeling so
many different ways, in so many different feelings with this
one person. He treated me. He was completely different person
the day we met than he was the day we
broke up. Maybe that the different lovers, or maybe it
(15:36):
is that these experiences were kind of um reminiscent of
previous experiences and I needed to call to sort of
um uh look to my past in order to figure
out how to navigate the present in the future. Uh.
And these are all different types of experiences all rolled
into one. Of course, there's a lot of things that
I would have said to my ex boyfriend that I
(15:59):
would have said it, or have said to previous lovers
in the past. But ultimately, I think realistically UM, as
a trans woman, and it's certainly as queer people, I
think we are in some in some ways less equipped
to navigate the world of love and relationships. If you
look at um, you know, film and television and entertainment
(16:19):
and society and commercials and books and everything we take
in as sort of a preparation for life. Then of
course romantic how to be a good husband, how to
be a good wife, even though there's no quick you know,
fixed for that. I think folks who are not in
the clear community UM get a certain type of training, uh,
(16:41):
just through living life and and maybe seeing their their
family members and their parents as sort of a model.
But I think queer people have less of a model
that's out in public to be able to kind of
do it in maybe less conventional ways. Um. Certainly as
a trans woman, there is not really any experience of
of seeing my off reflected, let alone seeing someone love
(17:02):
a trans person. I think if you think of a transperson,
you think of us as individuals, not surrounded by anyone
that we love. No one loves us. We're just alone
and we're just doing our thing. And maybe two were
strong teachers who teach people about, you know, being valiant,
but we don't necessarily have people that are connected to
us who talk about loving us in ways um, in
(17:25):
many different ways. And so that was really important for
me to put into an album to show folks that
it is possible, to show trans folks it's possible to
be loved and receive love, but even more importantly, to
show others that it is possible and good to talk
about your love of trans people publicly. I love that,
(17:45):
and I imagine it's got to be so therapeutic because
like it's twofold, so you are healing through writing this music,
but at the same time you are inspiring and letting
other people feel seen and be seen by your music.
I mean, how how it's got to feel good? Right,
Like it said that all that has got to feel good. Oh,
it definitely does. It feels good to be you know.
(18:07):
I think I've had these feelings obviously for a while,
but no one was really interested in I don't know
if anyone's interested in hearing it today, but they definitely
weren't interested in hearing it years ago, right, And so
no one was running. There was no space in the
world where you could listen to find a black trans
woman singing about her experience and singing R and B
(18:27):
nineties R and B. Yes, yes, could not find that.
And so I'm providing it and it feels great. I mean,
but that's the thing. You sit here and you say,
you know from your experience, you you didn't have any
anyone to look up to, You never heard anyone telling
these stories. You realize with you, Peppermint, that ends today.
(18:49):
That is no longer a thing, that is a fact,
that is now history because you have changed history. You
are the person doing it. You are humanizing the experience.
You're humanizing the experience and showing, hey, here's what I
am as a human being with feelings with heart, with
with with emotions, where you know, it's not a spectacle. Yeah,
(19:10):
you know, And I think I wanted to take that
step for so long. I was I was afraid to
be the one to do that because I know that
people love me from drag race and they love like
I had a little lip sync moment and they want
that fierceness and they just want some glitter and just
be on stage and make us feel what we're telling
you we want us to feel. But you know, and
(19:30):
those things are great, honey. I love the art of drag.
Once a queen, always the queen, but even the queens
have feelings, the same feelings as everybody else. We want
to be loved, We want to be authored and cherished
more than just by fans that are like throwing money
and don't believe me, do not stop throwing the money.
But we'll put at the end. Yeah, hello, let me
(19:55):
talk about the some of the things and that are
that we go through. And I think the certainly the
trend has been moving in the right direction over the
past decade or so in terms of being progressive, um,
but definitely post there's a lot more conversations that everyone
(20:18):
is involved already or interested in having that they weren't
prior to, and I'm just taking advantage of that. Well.
And if when you think Peppermint, you think first in
all these spaces, you were the first girl to come
out as trans on Drag Race? Am I correct with that?
(20:38):
I'm the first? It's it gets kind of muddy on
the show. Uh yeah, prior, I guess. The important note
is that I was out as trans prior to ever
even going to the show. And then so I walked
into the workroom completely already just out. Now the controversy
(20:59):
for a lot of people is that they don't think
I looked like they didn't believe me because they don't
look like I was trans. I don't even know what
that means, but uh, that is there the there cross
to bear. It's on record, I was out, um, And
it feels good to have been able to contribute to
some of that narrative because certainly when I went on
(21:20):
the show, um, and before I went on the show,
there was not a lot of uh, it's not it wasn't.
It wasn't like it is today today, Like literally today,
season fourteen, we have you know, five out on the show.
The winner is an out trans woman. Uh. And they
all came out mostly during the process of the show,
(21:41):
I believe, um. And it just feels so great that
we can have a space for different types of identities
that can come out in their own time, in their
own way, when they're ready. And one of the things
that I think was really interesting and just really touching
and really resonated with me. It's specifically given my my
experience with track Race having to balance am I am I?
(22:03):
Am I a good spokesperson for the community, amy making
them proud? And I representing myself well, am I doing
to myself dirty? Um? Am I am I a good
trans woman to look up to? Or am I am
I being a good representation? Or would I be proud
of myself? Like all of these questions that you asked,
am I being a good queen? Because sometimes back especially
back in there were there was a lot of your
(22:25):
either a drag queen or a trans woman and there's
nothing linking it. Um. And so I was like wrestling
with all that on my season. So seeing all of
the trans representation, but specifically during the finale, this corn
bread coming out and dressed in sort of a beauty
and the beast milange of the two. Um, I thought
(22:46):
was beautiful because what she had to say about it
was that, you know, the the the beauty of being
trans has nothing, has less to do with what surgeries
you've had and what you look like on the outside
and whether people believe that you're a beauty of a
woman or not, and just about who you are. And
so beauty isn't if I have the beholder and it
comes from within. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, and I don't
(23:07):
mean to stick words in her mouth, but that's basically
what she was conveying. And so I thought that was
just really beautiful. Well, yeah, because it is evolving and
we're all learning, Like as as fans of the show,
we're learning a lot of stuff too. As somebody myself
from the South, I feel like it was kind of
different in our clubs. I feel like the trans girls
were represented a lot when you went to see a
drag show, So like I just knew that world and
(23:30):
that just kind of made sense to me, and I
don't realized there were a lot of people that didn't
know that those girls were in this world and killing
it in this world. And I, um, you wanna talk
about not saying somebody's words with them. I don't want
to tell her story, but I moderated the panel for
a season two of Drag Race a Dragon a couple
of years back, and this was pre All Stars, and
Kylie is a good friend of mine, and we got
(23:51):
talking a little bit about what her experience was like
on her season when she basically I don't want to
get the wrong words, which wasn't allowed to be herself
and she wasn't allowed to continue to grow into herself
if she wanted to be a part of that process.
So they that to me just blew my mind because
I was like, whoa, Like this is like I remember
being os and in New Orleans and like that's that's
(24:13):
just these girls were always performing. They were part of
the drag scene. It was it blew my mind that
these girls were not in the mainstream yet. So then
to fast forward to see that her snatch the crown
at All Stars being her full authentic self and Peppermin,
I mean, I just gotta say, like it is it's
girls like you that like stepped up and just you
were yourself on the show and you made people go
oh okay, because sometimes it's just that sometimes it's just
(24:36):
being you and people seeing you because they haven't had
the chance to see someone like you anywhere yet, and
then it clicks and they go, oh, oh oh, I
was stupid. Okay, I'm sorry, all right, moving on, this
is what it is now, And like you were at
the forefront of that, so like I do have to
really appology you for that. As somebody who is a
big fan of the show and a big fan of
trans girls and drag, I'm just really happy to be
(24:57):
a part of that legacy. And I'm so proud of Kylie,
and I'm so proud of it. Feels like it's just
just her, just desserts coming back and Snatchally yes, certainly
been an originator on the show. Uh. And it just
goes to show that even though there was um controversy
and and some a little bit of tention about whether
or not we belong on the show or should be
(25:18):
or could be, or whether it made sense or what's
going to happen, here we are and we are dominating
and it makes the show better, It makes everything better.
I want every show to have a trans person on there,
because that's life, right exactly, That's his life. Yeah, I
mean that's what I feel like my baby does with
with his Hallmark movies. It's the same thing and just
show people something that you haven't seen so we can click.
(25:40):
It's the same thing that always happened with my family.
My family like didn't understand, like they were so anti
gay and so homophobic, and then like they just saw
me come out and being a loving relationship and it
was like light bobs. Oh, okay, alright, because we've seen it.
So we're in a really unique special time in life
where we're getting to be those people that just live
(26:00):
our lives authentically and loudly and help change people in
their minds and hearts because of that. So I think
we're all really fortunate. I think we are talking because
Peppermint is making history. Speaking of history, we have l
g B t Q plus history. When we come back
after this break, we'll be right back alright, Peppermint. So
(26:26):
what we love to do on podcast is we like
to talk about l g B t Q plus history,
little moments in l g B t Q plus history,
because if we want to know where we're going, we
have to always remember where we came from. So we
like to do a segment we call this week and
gay History. We're about the school you, Peppermint. This one's
really special to me as somebody that attends Gay Days
(26:49):
at Disney I think this is really cool. So in
nineteen seventy eight, this week in l g B t
Q plus History, more than fifteen thousand gay men and
lesbians attended a special gay night at Disneyland to benefit
the Los Angeles Gay Community Services Center. It's the largest
private party that the theme park has ever had. According
(27:10):
to the research that was done by our producers. Someone
go witham is that that that sounds like a lot,
but in they did that, That's that's amazing. And I
certainly believe that our community would show up and show out.
And I love stuff like that because that's the predecessor
two things like Gay Days, two things like the events
that we were able to go. I just remember the
first time going and like being a Disney and like
(27:33):
every time you saw a red shirt, it was like, oh,
I'm not alone. Oh there's there's more of us, And
it just made you feel stronger and stronger about yourself.
And like now fast forward, like I mean, obviously we're
so I'm proud of we don't care what I'm being
like a little twenty year old and seeing those red
shirts and feeling safe. So I love that that happened
in history. Ever been to a Gay Days. I haven't
(27:55):
been to Gay Days, at least not in Disney for sure. Um,
but I'm I'm and and this I'm just so happy,
especially hearing this historic moment that this is our entire
day in history. Um. And then I didn't realize that
had been going on since the nineteen But I'm really
happy that, you know, this year, with a lot of
(28:16):
the conversation that had gone place publicly in Florida with
Governor de Santis and don't say gaybel uh to see Disney,
you know, uh coming out strong uh m too, you know,
in support of the lgbt Q plus community. Um. Even
(28:37):
though it looks like the story, the story is not finished.
There's gonna be some more um happening about that. But
it just feels so great to see them actually, um
what I believe, standing on the right side of history.
And so yeah, I've never been to a Gay Days. UM,
and I know I don't know if that's the same well,
because that also one magical weekend. I think like I
(28:57):
think they all kind of happened to the same. I'm listen.
I'm not the thought dative spokes It is a magical weekend. Yeah,
it's I think that's separate. You put a few, It's magical.
Let me tell you, love is gonna be found, Love
is going to be lost. Pepperman is going to create
(29:18):
volume four of Let Us to Her Lovers. Now we're
sitting here talking about all the things here on pridecasts
that all the accomplishments that you've done, Peppermint, all the
things that you're going to do, And it's all about
being proud of yourself. Here on podcasts, it's about being
proud of who you are. That's why we do podcasts.
(29:38):
So we asked this question, what does pride mean to you?
Is it feels like I have the opportunity, thankfully, to
have a different answer to that question every year, every
time I think about it, every time I'm asked. Um.
And so of course it's about community. Of course, it's
(29:59):
a out being able to be yourself, uh freely and
safely and sort of out loud. Uh. And so this
year Pride for me is really about being able to
uh do all of those things and also focus on
allowing those who love us, whether it's a family member,
(30:23):
romantic partner, society, to do it just publicly. There's a
there's a quote that I'd like to say. It just
resonates with me every time I even say it. Um.
It's a quote by Cornell West who says justice is
what love looks like in public. And it really just
(30:44):
resonates with me because there are so many moments where
our community needs justice. When we're talking about LGBT youth,
gay youth, trans youth, and in states like Florida, Texas, Alabama, Uh,
you know, South Dakota, you name it, there's lots uh.
And these anti trans and anti queer bills that are
being proposed to keep keep lgbto youth, LGBT youth from
(31:09):
gaining access to sports, to healthcare, to bathrooms again, uh,
to all of these different things. In addition to the
impending Roe v. Wade decision which looks like it might
not turn out the way we want, um, which is
you know, abortion access and reproductive justice is a queer issue.
(31:29):
It is a trans issue as well as a women's issue. Um.
You know, all of these things happening, those things, to
me are the opposite of justice, and so that quote
really resonates with me, and I think we could use
some public love. People to talk about us and beam
about us publicly. And that's why you know, um, I
(31:49):
mean that, that's why this this album that I have,
it's just it feels like it's just at the right time.
And so I'll be beaming with pride this June and
July when I'm on tour, singing these songs in public
for people to see. Hopefully it will be another page
of their tours are their Pride experience, because I know
that for a lot of people, especially the early days
(32:10):
of Pride is about going out and just like you know,
losing yourself in the crowd. Um. But then there are
other opportunities for people to really engage and have an
intimate experience, and I'm excited to be able to provide that.
Isn't it interesting how pride changes every single year, Like
we hear, we think we know what it is, and
then it next year You're like, oh no, but's something
(32:32):
completely different now. And that's what I love about queer
community is that it's always ever changing. It's never the
same place, it's ever in the same place. Each year,
it's always different because we're learning more about each other.
Because of people like Pepperminten doing what they're doing, and
and all the activism that's going on, your people are
able to grow and change and learn, and the whole
community just expands as a whole. And it's so beautiful. Yeah.
(32:56):
I just I'm listening to talk and I'm still processing
everything that you said about like loving you and building
you up and all that. What else can we do?
What else? Not only like the cis gendered people in
the queer community, but it's SIS gendered people in general.
What can we do to be better activists for the
trans community to help progress continue? I mean, just being
(33:21):
open is certainly of a great first step, I think
in terms of like publicly and social media, just uplifting
someone in your life whose trans. It's really is interesting
because a lot of people, according to a pupil now
of people in the United States say that they do
not know someone personally who is trans, which is like,
(33:44):
that's a lot of people, and that's most of the people,
and so a lot of people may not have the
opportunity to sort of meet or uplift somebody who is
in their life whose trans because they don't know them. Uh,
And so what the people who do know someone who
is hands or even in the queer community should do. Um,
I think it's just talk about those people publicly again,
(34:06):
uplift them publicly, and give them opportunities for jobs, consider
them for different types of things, because we are more
than just entertainers, were more than just people in Hollywood,
were more than just that girl who does the show
at the thing. You know, these you know, trans women
of color, specifically black trans women, are at the losing
(34:26):
end of the terrible lopsided murders rates and statistics you know,
um there I think been have so far this year.
I don't know how many. The number of murders of
trans women of color, um and trans people overall in
the United States just seems to rise every year, gets
(34:47):
higher and higher every year, which is terrible. And a
lot of those crimes and acts of violence are committed
by our partners, are romantic partners, are boyfriends, are lovers,
and so you know, that's that's not really a site
bright and sunny outlook. But you know, what people can
(35:07):
do is not change someone. If somebody comes around and
brings their transgender girlfriend or boyfriend, accept them and invite
them into the fold just like you would anybody else,
and creating spaces for our partners and the people who
love us to feel free to do that without feeling
judged or Um. It's sort of like the internalized sort
(35:27):
of homophobia and transphobia happens around the notion of being
the lover of a trans person. And if we could
try to remove that as society, UM, and the people
who are outside of the queer community stop doing that,
and people inside of the queer community do that to
our partners as well. People I'm not gay, I'm a
straight woman. Surprised, UM, And I think that's that actually
(35:48):
comes as a surprise to a lot of people. Absolutely.
I think that speaks a lot to your heart though,
pepper Man, like, that's what we could do, and you said,
I hope our partners feel supported. I mean, that's that's beautiful,
the truth your heart goes there, show right, craps to
you for that. You may make me fit all warm
and fuzzy and sweet over here. And I have a
really important question I want to ask you, Peppermint, all
(36:09):
stars you have you have to pick one? Wait, the
the all winter season, right, now you do season I'm
going to do it all stars if you if you said, okay,
magic wand Boom, that's my choice, who is it going
to be? If I could just choose today, not having
seen any of the seen the show, just like hey, Boom,
magic wand there the Magic rou wand and also not
(36:30):
not knowing and some of the tea that I know,
but t aside hello, um, I would probably say, I mean, honestly,
I'm torn between. I mean, they're so, they're also great,
they're also very but I'm torn between two, uh, my
(36:51):
niece mona exchange or either of my Season nine sisters
training to the Talk or unjustifiably so on all those accounts,
your niece, your season also you know I peramental leader
Safe answers in that he was like, I know him
(37:13):
because no one's gonna shame her. Said, uh, they're gonna say, oh,
you picked your niece in your season, Okay, we'll get her.
No one's gonna come atterr. How did you not pick
this person? How did you say that? Why would you
say that? Like, no one's gonna come after her? And
you know what, we support you. Well, I'm gonna make
you do this because you have no no way to
get out of this, so people can tell you shouldn't
have picked a favorite. I'll go ahead. I'm gonna say
(37:34):
it on record because I shaol Sorry, I'm gonna say
it on record, Shae Cooler. I just think she's superstar.
From the minute she walked in on your season, She's
just a dag on superstar. When her All Star season
happened and she pumped in, I was like, well, that's
cute for everybody else to come play and enjoy and
have a good time. This will be fun to watch.
But this is SA season. I just think she's spectacular
(37:56):
and she's a superstar. So like my money, if you
made me bet right now would be you don't gotta
say anything, Peppermint. I know you know Tea, and I
know these are people that you care about in their
family and stuff. But like, I'm gonna put my money
on it. I put my money on Willow Pill even
though she's not on that I know, but I'm still
putting my money on it because she can pop out
of a box. I mean, I just pray that maybe
she'll she a Oh my god, I love her so much. No,
(38:22):
that's a cop out answer. No, it's the best answer
because I'm always gonna be a willow fan UM Peppermint
before you go. We we ask everyone the same question
because we think it's important. There's so many times that
we talked about our community and say how hard it is,
and and we we are honest about the struggles that
we are going through because they are real. But on
the other side of those struggles and on the other
(38:43):
side of everything, there is light, and there is hope
and there are amazing things. So we ask you, what
is your favorite thing about being part of the lgbt
Q plus community. What's your favorite thing about being queer?
I had the I had the chance to listen to
Dr Angela davie Us recently after having UM spoken with
(39:04):
her on black Bear Town Hall, which is a um
AN event that I put together with Block the Tracking,
and Dr Angela Davis, who is queer part of the
queer community, says that uh, she believes that trans people
and specifically trans people but also gender nonconforming people UM
(39:29):
have a certain freedom from the very very oppressive binary
of gender that allows us to look outside of the
box and we and perhaps shows us us meaning humanity
sort of an option for the future that's free of
some of the stuff that gender roles uh and the
(39:52):
patriarchy um put stifle us with. And so I think
that's my favorite thing. I do think even though the
price that we pay for being free and open and
really um at sometimes self content and knowledgeable about who
(40:12):
we are, more knowledge about who we are and more
connected to our own authenticity, the price for that in
the in some in many situations is being bullied in
school as a younger person, having some tough times with
family as a younger person. And I don't want to
reduce that because that is also character building. Uh. But
I do think my superpower is having sort of this
(40:35):
opened up sense of who I am and those around
me that I wouldn't I don't know that i'd even
be looking to find or have access to if I
were sis gender and heterosexual and not a part of
the queer community, because everything would be sort of prescribed
for me. And in that with our superpower, that's the
(40:56):
word I always use it is a superpower. Girl. We're
we're fortunate, We're like, we have the superpower, and when
people like you use them for such good, it's how
the world changes. Before we go we like to shout
out people in our community. In a segment we call
Me and James Shining are big gay spotlight on people
of the l g b t Q plus community that
(41:18):
are doing awesome things. So James tell us about this
week's big gay Spotlight. I didn't really take good notes
on it because I was I was. It's it's a
it's a book with a lot of pictures, and I
thought it was really cool. But so check this out.
So gay author Eric ross Wood, uh it did this
book cause he wants lgbt Q plus kids to believe
in themselves. So it's that. It's a children's picture book.
It's called Strong and it tells the story of Rob Kearney.
(41:40):
Maybe I showed you him before. Rob Kearney is that
powerlifter guy that wears like the bright colors and has
the bright hair and he's I think, um, he's the
first openly gay strong man in the sport of you know,
the strong man stuff like lifting all the things. I
can put airplane or I can lift a bus. But
the book is all about how like he's not being
bright and colorful. And then he meets the guy who
(42:03):
tells him, hey, you're special. I'll be bright and colorful
with you, so you feel strong enough to be bright
and colorful yourself. And it's just I mean, not even
for LGBTQ, plus for any kid out there to hear
that message of you can be bright, you can shine,
you can be different, and look there's people that will
love you for it and do it with you, and
(42:24):
you can still end you're strong. Being bright does not
mean that you are not strong. Yeah, absolutely, I love
to think that's I think that's beautiful. So big gay
spotlight on author Eric Rosswood, but also on on Rob
Kearney the strong Man that it's based on both the
y'all thanks for being so fabulous and living loudly so
I can shine my big gay spotlight on you and
not to put you on pressure, not to put you
(42:45):
on the spot, Peppermint, but uh, you got you. Anybody
you want to shine your your big trans spotlight on
that's that's doing something amazing out there that you would
love to just shout out. You just want to say, hey, Mike,
I see you, Hey, I see you right now. I
am into Uh this person is not a transperience, but
my spotlight can go on everybody. Um is an Arthur
(43:08):
Sonya Rene Taylor, who also is UM. You can find
her very very fabulous UH musings on her Instagram and
social media where she comments on everything going on. I
just really enjoy her style of delivery and teaching. This
is it's not a children's UH person necessarily, but they
(43:29):
are doing some great work in the community. Sonya Renee Taylor.
Check her out and her Taylor. No, I just followed her.
Just follow her right now. Hope we're gonna follow back.
I just wanted to want those followers just follow follow
her a followback. Okay, here we go. Before we let
you go though, because you have all the stuff coming
(43:50):
up in the tour now that we want to make
sure that if anybody is sitting at home taking copious
notes and doesn't know how to jump on the Google
to jump on your Instagram and get the information, how
can they see you on tour? UM people can just
go to my website Peppermint online dot com slash events
for tickets. Uh. The tort kicks off in July UM
in Chicago, and I'm from Chicago, I'm not from that's
(44:14):
for the drag race fans in you. Yeah, July two,
it kicks off we're going all over the country to Georgia,
well at cities all over the country, Atlanta, Oakland and
Los Angeles, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Philly, Boston and of course Brooklyn,
New York, and so everybody's invited. Pepper we could literally
(44:36):
talk to you all day. You're so wonderful. Thank you
so much, Peppermint for joining us here on Pridecast and
all the history that you're making. Thank you on behalf
of us and the community for all that you do. Peppermint,
James and Jonathan. It is my absolute pleasure and I
was so excited to get the chance to chat with you.
By Pepperman Girl, by Bitch
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