July 15, 2019 • 30 mins
The series premiere of the Project Listen Podcast was recorded live, on-stage at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity in France. Join our host Will Pearson, as he talks all things audio and creativity with Ryan Seacrest, Leslie Sims (Chief Creative Officer, Ogilvy), Tim Castree (CEO North America, GroupM), and Brad Hiranaga (Global Head of Brand, General Mills) on the beach in Cannes, France.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Podcasts or another place where we even start to invest
more money. And for us, it's a smart place to
try to figure out how can we add value and
not be interrupted to you, but do in a way
that that makes sense. We've seen a lot of interesting
dieta recently strong brand health diet, as they say is
actually audio can be a brand building medium. It's not
(00:24):
just how you sound, what voice, how you show up
in a meaningful way that people are gonna want to
let you in so that they do ask for you
by name. Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to the first
episode of Project Listen, a joint production of w PP
and I Heart Media. Now, over the course of the
next year, we'll be producing a podcast episode every single
(00:47):
month where we invite a cast of stars to share
innovation and investigate learnings in creative audio. But you're not
here to hear me. You're here to hear from these
amazing guests. I will introduce them here. You have obviously
already heard um telling the CEO of Group him North America.
Let's give him a round of applause. Up Here Leslie
(01:08):
with my favorite jacket of the week so far, with
the Chief Creative Officer of Ogilvie. Thanks for joining us.
A real up and comer, somebody who think's gonna make
something of himself one day. Mr Ryan Seacrest and the
Chief brand Officer of General Mills Brad here in Naga.
(01:29):
All right, all right, so Tim, I'm gonna start with you.
I know that I actually have heard that the idea
for this project Listen came up through some conversations that
you and Bob were having, and I was curious to
hear from you. You know, why is rethinking audio a
priority for you guys at this moment, Well, it starts
(01:49):
with the kind of massive interest in it. It's really
started with, you know, the kind of the new formats
that are really boomed in audio. So, you know, just
a few stats if you don't mind someone to your
guy like stats. You know, we've seen a two thousand
five growth in smart speaker adoption over the last two years.
We've seen increase in podcast listening, and we've seen increase
(02:11):
in music streaming. So all of that fresh new innovation
has brought a lot of focus and attention back on
to audio. But that's really built on top of a
base of broadcast radio, which is just phenomenally robust and strong,
so that new audio behavior is not displacing broadcast radio
was really building incrementality on top of it, where we
see you're still still mainstream. Broadcast radio is the number
(02:33):
one single reach vehicle for adults in the United States,
a weekly reach bigger than any other medium. So we
thought the confluence of those things, it made sense for
us to really zero in here. Actually, I'm curious to
hear from from any of you. You know, what you
think is the most exciting development happening right now? An
audio Maybe Leslie will go to you. It's gone from
(02:54):
terrestrial radio to satellite and streaming and podcasts and and
now down to smart speakers that people are actually listening
to the radio on in their homes now. So we're
seeing audio is really becoming a bigger part of people's lives,
actually not smaller. And it's an observation that we're looking at, um.
You know, brands, we've been putting a lot even as agencies,
(03:17):
on visual identity and how how a brand is showing
up visually around the world and saying, you know, your
visual language is so incredibly important. In the brand book
is really focused on the visual and we're now adding
alongside that the importance of of how your brand is
going to sound and how it's going to show up
more than just um like a mnemonic or or a
jingle of some sort, you know, or tricking people into
(03:38):
playing crunchy potato chips when you're eating stale ones. But
we're we're seeing it much more as like, how is
your brand going to show up? Where should it show
up in the world when it's in an audio space,
and how can we connect all those things for brands,
and and how are you experimenting with this like in
in new approaches to audio right now? Well, at Ogilvie,
we have we started a new practice called the Sonic
(03:59):
Brand Practice and we just we just partnered with with
Colgate and one of the first initiatives that we had
to create it was it was answering a problem that
like any parent out there may recognize as as an issue,
is trying to get your kid to brush their teeth,
usually a soul's experience where it's just like smearing toothpaste
on the front of their mouth and then trying to
(04:20):
cry and go to bed. But um, so we worked
with them and had uh um some songwriters work with
actual dentists to create optimal two minute songs that were
in four different variations, and they had a little character
with it, like the t Rex or the monkey, and
you would go in and the kid could prompt, I
want to do brush with me, and it would play
a perfect length song with that would have embedded little
(04:41):
brushing techniques and and they would use it. But we
found when we were doing that that kids adults had
had actually done all the coding for it. So when
the kids were doing the prompts. When kids are learning
how to how to brush their teeth, they're obviously quite young,
so they don't say words very well. So they were
like two f rerex you know or whatever. So we
had to actual will use AI to adapt to kids
(05:02):
speak and make it up be able to understand the
things that they were when they would ask. But the
good upside is, um, we just launched it about a
month ago. Over the kids who've been using this app
ask if they can brush again, which is good news
for Colgate because double the usage they used me Yeah yeah,
And it's not just their parents smearing it on their face,
like you, I've never heard that approach before. I respect
(05:22):
that you're trying not to just as a natural result. Yeah,
that's impressive. All right. So Ryan, I've got to hear
from you just on the fact that obviously you've been
voted I think eleven times the busiest man in Hollywood.
I think it's eleven years running now with so many yes, yeah, yeah,
but so many projects in the works. Yet you managed
(05:42):
to do a daily radio show. Can you talk a
little bit about, you know, why you still choose to
to do that and what that means for you. Well,
the way my schedule works in the morning is Kelly
RiPP and I do a talk show live from New
York from nine o'clock and at ten oh one, I
go downstairs to a radio studio that we built I
heart built underneath the TV set and I have been
(06:03):
going to a radio studio since I was fifteen years old,
So it is part of my d n A. I
think it it allows me to stay up on things
that are going on. It keeps you plugged in. There's
a lot of autonomy in radio. Um it's an unvarnished
medium in a way, so there's a lot of authenticity
to it. But there is no other platform that I
(06:24):
have where I can create the intimacy with somebody that's
a total stranger, um, and I've never met them, but
when you do meet them, they feel like they've known
you for a long time. You know. It's been interesting
to see that happening. We knew that on the podcast side,
but obviously seeing it on the broadcast side as we've
become part of part of I Heart in the last
several months. So explain why that feels different than other
(06:45):
medium that are out there to be in the audio space,
Why that intimacy is there and in a way that
maybe you don't see everywhere. Well, I think part of it,
you know, just just by virtue of how we do
the show. I mean, you're doing in front of an audience.
You're doing it on a beach here. This is not conventional.
It's how we record all of our parts. Good for you,
because my Heart is not doing that for me. Uh,
We're in a room with carpet on the walls, You're
(07:07):
talking to one person, two people. It really feels like
you're having a one on one conversation. You're not performing
on a big stage, you're not performing in front of
an audience. And I think just that, Um, you know
that atmosphere creates the opportunity to have an intimate UH
exchange with the audience, and then of course over time
you hope to build their loyalty and ultimately their trust.
(07:31):
And I think that's the job that that that that
I have build trust with the audience, so that that
trust can also be part of when we're talking about
different products. They trust the products we're talking about on
the air. It's actually pretty amazing for us to see
that with some of our larger podcast with Chuck and
Josh who hosts Stuff you Should Know, which is the
largest podcast in the history of the medium, and seeing
(07:53):
their live events that they do and people walking up
to them and you'd expect them to be more nervous
as fans than they really are. No one's ever nervous
to meet me because they think you're there, your body right, yes,
the idea, yes, and they say you're much smaller in
person usually, But you know, it's when I was working
on American Idol with UH with with the judges. One
(08:13):
of the judges for a couple of years was Jennifer Lopez,
and we would travel to different cities auditioning the contestants
and we would walk through the lobbies and people would say,
oh my gosh, Ryan, Jen, Ryan, take a picture of
me and Jen, And I was like, this is my
place in the world and I'm comfortable with it. That's but.
(08:33):
But but if I can accomplish that, yeah, get their
camera and take a picture of them with the star,
then I'm doing my job. Well, that's unbelievable and totally
speaks to that the power of that medium. So all right, Brad,
you get to to to answer this next question. Obviously,
with General Mills, you have massive, massive brands from Cheerios,
the Hagandahs, Blue Buffalo pet food across the board, and
(08:53):
a business like this, you know you are depending on
mass awareness of each of these products. But we're in
a world where there's fragmented media. There's so many places
that people are being bombarded with messages all the time,
and I'm curious, in your role, how do you guys
have to deal with this? How does audio play into this?
Just how you guys approach this. Yeah, I think the
(09:16):
last few years are approach has really changed. I mean
we actually used to be fairly heavy invested into radio
ten fifteen years ago, and then I think his video
kind of exploded. More of our media shifted that way.
I think with the fragmentation of the big thing that
we're really thinking about is we're trying not to be
interruptive and disruptive. I think that was the old way
of thinking about things. And so getting back it's interesting
(09:38):
on Ryan's point around trying to have that one to
one connection, we're really trying to find ways of solving
problems with our brands, adding value with our brands, and
so UM, that's just a different way I think of
of approaching how we're trying to do brand building UM.
And so that looks different for Blue Buffalos, of pet food,
Lucky Charms, as a as a serial UM, but it
gives us a different philosophy in the way that we
have to think about where the brand comes to life.
(09:59):
So going after mass reach vehicles and trying to blast
stuff out there isn't isn't Philosophically, it's easy for us
to do because we know that doesn't necessarily resonate UM
as we moved to one to one stuff though, that's
where I think that there's really the relationship being built.
And I loved your example on the on the toothbrush too,
because there's the connection there that we that we're looking
and seeking for brands that are trying to be more authentic,
and so radio I think allows us to do that.
(10:21):
UM podcast or another place where we've ben start to
invest more money UM and for us, it's a smart
place to try to figure out how can we add
value and not be interrupted to you, but do in
a way that that makes sense. What's your what's your
guilty cereal of choice? Your guilty pleasure? Uh, Mike, wouldn't
be great if I said, like frosted flakes, that's not
that's not our cereal. Uh No, my guilt my favorite?
(10:42):
I know it's my Actually, my favorite cereal is Lucky
Arms by what kind of milk do you use? Chocolate?
When you're trying to introduce products right now, when we're
in a moment where we can just tell Alexa to
refill our cabinets with whatever it is, I know it's
a very different space than it was even five years ago,
(11:04):
especially ten years ago. Curious to hear from you guys,
as you think about messaging for each of your brands,
how you try to you know, try to not fight that,
but how you deal with that world in which you
can do that so many brands over a hundred Yeah,
you have to brag about it, but hundred plus. I
(11:24):
mean I think Alexa and and the voice piece for
us is I think, on are we nervous about it?
I think on one hand, yeah, because it definitely is
a just a force the habit as people get used
to it and they'll say I want cereal and leave
it up to Alexa to put whatever Cereals she wants
into the shopping basket. So I think on one hand
we could say that's that's a little bit nerve racking.
On the other, if we're doing a good job and why,
I think it's more important to be building brands now
(11:47):
UM and making products that people really want it put
it raises the bar for us to actually deliver that
to people so that they will call out, I want
Cheerios or I want Nature Valley or I want your
play So in a lot of ways, I think, um,
it just puts the onus on on on brand building
UM to be even more important. And we and we
talk about that sometimes like what product or what brand
would you call out if you're actually asking for something
(12:08):
with a voice thing, would you call out cookies or
would you call it Oreo, which you called cereal? Would
you call it cinementos crunch? And so if you're not calling,
if you're calling out the product and not the brand,
then we have opportunity to strengthen it. Do you have
those mint Oreos? No, we don't know. I just threw
out Oreo. Just said you keep mentioning trouble too. That's
not super smart. But anyway, all right, go ahead, yeah,
(12:30):
please pleacuse that is that is such a big part
of everybody has been enamored by. We know a lot
about our audience. We we can we we we know
exactly what time of day you're gonna be pulling that out,
you know, to eat your cereal or whatnot, And that
now is the time that you have to be creating
that meaningful connection with people. And I think people we've
been talking about audio is like this new frontier and
(12:51):
and which is which is great because connected car is
going to add a whole new place where people are
not like as you're driving, You're gonna be able to
serve them content that's relevant. But you've got to show up.
And that's what we're doing in our in our sonic
granding area, which is it's not just how you sound,
what voice, how you show up in a meaningful way
that people are gonna want to let you in so
that they do ask for you by name. And we
(13:13):
we've been talking about in a creative because creative is
such an ephemeral thing, such an ephemeral thing, and in
our creative department will have people who are who are
specialists in a discipline and an emerging tech and we
need to have them there. And then we have our
creatives who are like curious and inspired. But we talk
about their specialists in the human os, their specialists in
the user who's using all of those different um platforms,
(13:34):
and how do we connect all of those different platforms
in a meaningful way where when you show up in
an audio space, which there's gonna be more opportunity for
that to be happening, how do you show up in
a way that's gonna make them say I want lucky charms,
Please order lucky charms and not become just a commoditized effort.
And that's where we are. Are are really excited to
be seeing what we're gonna be delivering on that. Yeah,
(13:55):
so acsolutely looking at not too long ago a study
from Group M that was showing the predictions on spend
an audio and across the board this year, and the
predictions were that in two thousand nineteen we might actually
see spend in radio specifically drop by a couple of
percentage points, which was surprising to me because again, as
we've been talking about, people are listening to audio across
(14:16):
the board more than ever before. And I was curious,
you know, Tim, maybe if you could point to why
you think this is and and what this means for
you guys as you think about investing in the space. Yeah.
So those forecasts, which are historically very very accurate, and
I think they reflect a lot of the current UH sentiment.
I think to to realize a change in those forecasts,
(14:37):
we need a bit of an intervention, and I think
in many ways what we're trying to do here with
our partnership is to create such an intervention. I think
if you want to if you want to change that trend,
there are two things that we have to do. You know.
The first thing we have to acknowledge is that the
vast majority of advertising spend growth has been coming from
eight or nine very big digital companies that have a
(14:59):
kind mindset which is about television into the digital ecosystem.
That's their model. So it's just it's a mindset. When
I talk about the big we're talking about twenty six
billion dollars of spend growth that's come out of Facebook, Google, Amazon,
I A C, Booking, dot Com, Expedia, and a couple
of others that make up that. It's so really driving
the growth. So I think one of the things is
we need to convince those brands and those businesses about
(15:23):
the power of audio in their business. When you think
about the thing we were just talking about about Alexa skills,
I mean the audio input, the audio you is a
big part of those businesses. I think that's that's an
opportunity for us in the medium. I think the second
thing moving digital folks and getting back to the more
traditional space. I do think there are two or three
biases that we need to overcome that are getting in
(15:43):
the way of our people really are doing as much
with the audio as they could or should. Um you know.
The first is a very strong historical bias towards site
sound and motion. So when your average media planner does
a campaign plan, they start with optimizing what they call
sites sound and motion first, then they allocate into other channels,
so it becomes the second or third or fourth thing
you allocate money to after you've really got the TV
(16:05):
and video planned down. But with the fragmentation around those
around those video platforms and channels, I think it's an
opportunity to rethink that. Who's to say we understand thirty
second television ads, but who's to say a two second
digital video with the sound off in the in the
in the stream is more powerful than audio? And so
why do we need to think about it with that construct?
We've got to really rethink the construct. I think the
(16:28):
second thing bias we've got to overcome is the idea
that audio is a retail medium. Audio and radio is
is for retail, and I think we've seen a lot
of interesting data recently, strong brand health data that says
actually audio can be a brand building medium. And then
obviously our own experiences with podcasts talk help us understand
(16:48):
at a human level the power of audio is a
storytelling medium, so we've got to tap into that. I
think the third, which is maybe more tactical bias we've
got to overcome is most media planners millennials living in
urban centers, so they're on subways. The in ubers, they
understand streaming, but they don't understand the car and commuter culture.
And then and they don't have that same relationship with audio.
(17:11):
So I think there's a little bit of this where
it's a bit out of sight, out of mind for
the people doing the planning on behalf of Bread's brand.
So I think there's a real work we need to
do on the audio literacy with just with media planners
and clients so they can really start to tap into that.
I think if we overcome some of those things, I
think there's a chance we could do something about those
trend numbers that you talked about. Yeah, I want to
(17:31):
ask one more question before we turn it out to
the audience here. You mentioned podcasts. Both of you guys
have just in terms of why you think it's a
different space. I mean, obviously you're still dealing with intimacy,
that that benefit of an intimacy like you would with
personalities on air on broadcast radio. But what you're seeing
and trying in the in the podcast space, how does
(17:52):
it feel different and what are you looking to try their? Well,
I think I mean the personality that's there in the
topics that are there, in the passion points are there,
which how to build our brands around those things, And
so I think it's smart for us to try to
show up where people are actually spending so much time
and they're they're they're they're they're investing in that time
and it's a way for them. I think pepper point
is right. When I'm commuting, when I'm doing something, I'm
planning around those moments, and so our brands need to
(18:13):
be there. I think we haven't done more there yet
because it is so fragmented, and so we're trying to
figure out how do we do it more selectively and
with a lot of brands. UM. Trying to plan that
that specifically has kind of been what slowed us down
a bit, But there's tons of opportunity for that. UM.
I think the other piece of this for us a
little bit is, you know, I think creatively we've struggled
with how do you come to life in audio? You know,
(18:34):
you know, how to look at a spot or a
video and evaluate I think that's good or I think
that's powerful. UM. Audio sometimes feels like it's the last
thing that we do. So it's like all and then
and then do something for for radio instead of actually
really figuring out how to creatively to bring that to life.
And I love what you said about bringing up you know,
distinct memory cues or things on the sound side of it,
because I think actually some of the marketers in the
(18:55):
eighties like had it down when they were bringing up
pmnemonics and laughter. We have the Doe boy a goal like,
we don't really use that anymore, and why don't we?
It's like such a powerful sound. And so there's things
like that that we're trying to bring back out of
the DNA of the brands to put into audio in
a much more creative way. And can I add like
so even even with when you talk about terrestrial radio
through the app, you could listen to I Heart Radio
(19:16):
through the app and and be anywhere. I think people
still see it as something that you're listening to in
your car. You could be listening in your house. I
could be out in the world. Once I'm listening on
my phone. You guys know what we're buying. You know
where I am. I'm at Target every Saturday at yelling
at my child so calmly, uh no, not yelling, But
(19:36):
you know like it will it will be able to
I know, thanks, it's not hard to miss Father's Day
every year for can you guys. It's really not a
pain point at all. Um, But um, it's it's something
that I think we are not even seeing that we
can know if you had that that dough boy giggle
at the right time, when you know they're at home,
and if they're listening to it, and and they will
(19:58):
listen to it around the house and on their smart speaker,
if we can make the things more relevant to them
in a creative, meaningful, inviting way instead of just blaring out.
And I think right now we've been dealing with we
don't really know where everybody is, so we create ads
that are that are not within context. We don't know
what you're doing, so we're saying what we want you
to hear and trying to do in a creative way.
Now we know where and we can get more of
(20:20):
an idea of where you are in the time of
day and be much more relevant and inventive and and
inviting in that space. There's one thing I just wanted
to I'm gonna read some of these notes, but we
talk about the power of audio and the power of
the connection, and and bear with me. This is a
bit serious because of the story. But last week we
(20:41):
were on the air and we were doing our show
and this this young man called in and he was
almost in tears when he was speaking to me, and
his story was his name was Josiah, and he told
me live on the air, he said, I'm calling you
because I don't have anyone else in my life that
I can call and talk to. And it was extremely
(21:03):
vulnerable and extremely brave, and it all unfolded without a delay,
and he said, um. Josiah said he always knew he
was gay since he was a little kid, but he
said he stayed in the closet because he grew up
in a religious home and both his mom and his
dad were pastors. He attended Christian private schools from kindergarten
to twelfth grade. In he lost his dad in a
(21:25):
car accident. Now he's telling me all of this on
the air. In his older brother committed suicide. All his
mom has is him and his sister. So he kept
denying who he was because he didn't want to let
her down and he knew how she would react. So
he's breaking down in tears to me a total stranger
because he didn't have anyone else to talk to. He
(21:47):
spent years in denial um It put him into a
total spiral. He joined the military right out of high school.
He was deployed in Iraq. He became an e m
T Type one firefighter, returned to the u US. He
was then diagnosed with lung cancer. He finally came out
to his mother, and now his mom and the people
at church don't speak to him. He didn't know what
(22:12):
to do. He didn't know who to speak to, He
didn't know who to turn to. He has to go
to chemo. Listeners heard this story and called in. Hundreds
of them called in and they said, I will take
Josiah to the hospital. I will help him, I will
be there by his side. These are total strangers, and
you think about the power of audio and the intimacy
(22:36):
of audio. For him to have the courage to call
up and tell that story and trust us to to
put that on the air, it was one of the
more remarkable moments. And this is a guy that's been
through so much, but for days people were calling and
now strangers are driving him the chemo. Now he's met counselors,
he's got experts talking to him help him make it
(22:57):
through it. So that was one of those very very
very special moments that you just when you show up
to work. You never think something like that's going to happen,
but it does prove the power of the connection that
you can have through the voice. Well, and that yeah,
that's a fantastic story, you know, and you described him
as talking to a complete stranger. But again it gets
(23:18):
back to the point you made earlier that you're not
a complete stranger to him. You may not have known him,
but that's that's unbelievable. That's such a great story. So
we all thought that we invented communities when digital showed
up because it allowed people to start talking to each
other at radio and people listening to you, you have
a community out there, and that was one moment where
(23:39):
everybody was able to communicate with each other because you
became that central point. And that is a real open
space now where we're going with audio that may allow
people to be able to start connecting to each other
because it was almost the original community, but it was
a one way. Everybody's passively only taking it in and
now you're able to connect them in that way, and
then your community will soon be able to connect hopefully
(24:01):
as we have you know, all all of the devices
that are connecting in a meaningful way, and hopefully brands
will be able to take partner to an authentic way.
But that's much more curated to you as as somebody
that everybody feels like they know. It's a real humbling
and amazing thing you have. Yeah, there's this idea of
of influencers and and it's not to downplay the idea
of digital influencers or anything like that, but just seeing
(24:24):
the strength of these relationships and hearing somebody day in
and day out, whether it's through a podcast, whether it's
through you know, a broadcast radio show, whatever it may be.
Just understanding the power of that influence when you have
access to these people reading your messages. Maybe a quick
question before we turn it out here, if anybody does
have any questions, is just curious to hear how messaging
(24:46):
and the way advertisers um communicate their message through audio
has changed over the past five ten years. I mean,
I got to hear you do a couple of the
skills reads and explanations of how to use certain products
x UM on air, and it felt so different than
the kind of ads of old that we might have
thought about fifteen twenty years ago. Just to hear a
(25:08):
little bit about how that's changed and what advertisers are
able to do now in the space that maybe we
didn't even think to do for some reason, you know,
in decades past. Well, I know, you know, when we
work with brands, the best moment is that moment where
I get to sit down with the brands and hear
from them what they're trying to accomplish before we start
reading spots on the air. You know, what is a win?
(25:30):
What is the goal? What? What? What? What are you
trying to do with this product? Um? Because you know,
we we think through the lens of our audience every
single day, and how can we best communicate it using
the right key terms, keywords, brand names, um, But how
can we best articulate that in an endorsement in a
spot so that it sounds authentic and genuine and live.
(25:51):
So for me, it's always best to meet with a brand,
meet with a client, and then have that brand and
client give you a little bit of freedom in the messaging. UM.
We do get lots of copy that says read verbatim,
don't change a word, which is fine, I understand it,
but but I feel like I can do a better
job when I understand what we're trying to accomplish and
we can put it into the words of our you know,
(26:13):
of our show. Yeah, we certainly find that in terms of,
you know, the freedom for our podcasters to be able
to work with a set of you know, clear talking points.
Here are things that you need to make sure your
audience understands. But to put in the voice of the
too rigid, Yeah, to put in the voice of because
each podcast is a little different. You know. We have
fantastic hosts that utilize humor a little bit more, others
(26:35):
that may be a bit more serious, but their audience
comes to them for their voice and falls in love
with them for that reason. And so whether those brands
that truly seemed to get that, it seems to work really,
really effectively. So question back there. This question is for
Brad and so you were talking about some of the
work that you did with Colgate, which I loved. Um
from a general Mills perspective, is there an example or
(26:57):
something that you're doing in sound or something that you
could tell us about that you're even testing or excited
about and kind of which brand and why Yeah, I
think um I mentioned the Dolboy before because it's a
kind of a really recent and relevant example for us,
and so a lot of the testing that we've done,
and it's funny because I think previous to this, you know,
five ten years ago, we would have pretty rigid like
these are the these are the reasons to believe that
(27:18):
we want to hit in this fifteen seconds or this
thirty seconds when we're anticipating that this person is on
the way to the grocery store. But I think what
we've tried to do now is pull that back and say, okay, like,
if we're really going to build a brand and if
people are gonna be interacting with it, how do we
use the cues? And so the doughboy giggle for us
is something that we've actually started to utilize more in sound,
and we actually did a comparative piece of creative using
(27:41):
that to one that didn't have the branded piece of
it at all, and it was very similar in terms
of what the messaging was. And we found that the
one we're actually using sound de monics and things that
are really resonant with the brand performed about thirty five
to higher in terms of message recall. So for us again,
it's back. I think it is a out like rethinking
about how to really bring the brands to life in audio. Um,
(28:03):
we're trying to use other things Cheerios as a brand
about positivity, and so what we think about how does
even the sound around positivity. What's it sound like, what's
it feel like? What are the types of people that
should be reading it to their audiences in a way
that can bring that to life. Um, so it is
much more contextual as well. UM, and I do like
the fact is that that that you guys know your
audience is so well we want to connect with them.
So there does have to be a trust of what
(28:25):
you guys are gonna be able to how to deliver
it if we're going to be entering those environments. And
so I think the flexibility is super important too. I do,
especially with brands like yours. I do love hear you
talking about that that power of sound, because one of
the ways we see this illustrated is just walking down
the grocery store aisle of cereals. For example, my wife
and I can point left and right, and think about
(28:46):
the number of jingles that you know from so many
of those cereals, and in a world where, of course,
TV consumption has changed so much that many kids aren't
seeing that sort of thing. If they're you know, if
it's Netflix or Amazon or whatever it may be, that
they almost look at us like we're crazy, Like we've
just made up a song about some you know, whatever
it is. I'm cereal, and so it's pretty cool to
(29:07):
see that idea of kind of bringing that back. It's
it's pretty neat. So all right, well, I think we
are out of time here, but I do want to
thank you guys one more time for being here. These
are wonderful guests. Let's give them around of applause. Thank
you very much, thank you. I hope you enjoyed this
episode of Project Listen. We're back now from can But
(29:29):
I just keep thinking about so many of the topics
we discussed on the beach. Beyond laughing at Leslie's comments
on getting her kids to brush her teeth, I love
the creative thinking from her team, and at Colgate of
course appreciated Brad letting us know how the Pillsbury Doughboy
is alive. And well, and Ryan's story, I mean, he
had the whole audience right there with him, hearing how
(29:50):
his listeners rallied around. This guy's story was just incredible
to listen to. And then having Tim help us understand
why all of this matters and why audio matters so
much right now was just fantastic, overall incredible conversation and
we're going to be bringing you more just like this
all season long on the Project Listen podcast. Thanks for listening,
(30:10):
and be sure to subscribe on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Until
next time, happy listening, m
Podcasts or another place where we even start to invest
more money. And for us, it's a smart place to
try to figure out how can we add value and
not be interrupted to you, but do in a way
that that makes sense. We've seen a lot of interesting
dieta recently strong brand health diet, as they say is
actually audio can be a brand building medium. It's not
(00:24):
just how you sound, what voice, how you show up
in a meaningful way that people are gonna want to
let you in so that they do ask for you
by name. Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to the first
episode of Project Listen, a joint production of w PP
and I Heart Media. Now, over the course of the
next year, we'll be producing a podcast episode every single
(00:47):
month where we invite a cast of stars to share
innovation and investigate learnings in creative audio. But you're not
here to hear me. You're here to hear from these
amazing guests. I will introduce them here. You have obviously
already heard um telling the CEO of Group him North America.
Let's give him a round of applause. Up Here Leslie
(01:08):
with my favorite jacket of the week so far, with
the Chief Creative Officer of Ogilvie. Thanks for joining us.
A real up and comer, somebody who think's gonna make
something of himself one day. Mr Ryan Seacrest and the
Chief brand Officer of General Mills Brad here in Naga.
(01:29):
All right, all right, so Tim, I'm gonna start with you.
I know that I actually have heard that the idea
for this project Listen came up through some conversations that
you and Bob were having, and I was curious to
hear from you. You know, why is rethinking audio a
priority for you guys at this moment, Well, it starts
(01:49):
with the kind of massive interest in it. It's really
started with, you know, the kind of the new formats
that are really boomed in audio. So, you know, just
a few stats if you don't mind someone to your
guy like stats. You know, we've seen a two thousand
five growth in smart speaker adoption over the last two years.
We've seen increase in podcast listening, and we've seen increase
(02:11):
in music streaming. So all of that fresh new innovation
has brought a lot of focus and attention back on
to audio. But that's really built on top of a
base of broadcast radio, which is just phenomenally robust and strong,
so that new audio behavior is not displacing broadcast radio
was really building incrementality on top of it, where we
see you're still still mainstream. Broadcast radio is the number
(02:33):
one single reach vehicle for adults in the United States,
a weekly reach bigger than any other medium. So we
thought the confluence of those things, it made sense for
us to really zero in here. Actually, I'm curious to
hear from from any of you. You know, what you
think is the most exciting development happening right now? An
audio Maybe Leslie will go to you. It's gone from
(02:54):
terrestrial radio to satellite and streaming and podcasts and and
now down to smart speakers that people are actually listening
to the radio on in their homes now. So we're
seeing audio is really becoming a bigger part of people's lives,
actually not smaller. And it's an observation that we're looking at, um.
You know, brands, we've been putting a lot even as agencies,
(03:17):
on visual identity and how how a brand is showing
up visually around the world and saying, you know, your
visual language is so incredibly important. In the brand book
is really focused on the visual and we're now adding
alongside that the importance of of how your brand is
going to sound and how it's going to show up
more than just um like a mnemonic or or a
jingle of some sort, you know, or tricking people into
(03:38):
playing crunchy potato chips when you're eating stale ones. But
we're we're seeing it much more as like, how is
your brand going to show up? Where should it show
up in the world when it's in an audio space,
and how can we connect all those things for brands,
and and how are you experimenting with this like in
in new approaches to audio right now? Well, at Ogilvie,
we have we started a new practice called the Sonic
(03:59):
Brand Practice and we just we just partnered with with
Colgate and one of the first initiatives that we had
to create it was it was answering a problem that
like any parent out there may recognize as as an issue,
is trying to get your kid to brush their teeth,
usually a soul's experience where it's just like smearing toothpaste
on the front of their mouth and then trying to
(04:20):
cry and go to bed. But um, so we worked
with them and had uh um some songwriters work with
actual dentists to create optimal two minute songs that were
in four different variations, and they had a little character
with it, like the t Rex or the monkey, and
you would go in and the kid could prompt, I
want to do brush with me, and it would play
a perfect length song with that would have embedded little
(04:41):
brushing techniques and and they would use it. But we
found when we were doing that that kids adults had
had actually done all the coding for it. So when
the kids were doing the prompts. When kids are learning
how to how to brush their teeth, they're obviously quite young,
so they don't say words very well. So they were
like two f rerex you know or whatever. So we
had to actual will use AI to adapt to kids
(05:02):
speak and make it up be able to understand the
things that they were when they would ask. But the
good upside is, um, we just launched it about a
month ago. Over the kids who've been using this app
ask if they can brush again, which is good news
for Colgate because double the usage they used me Yeah yeah,
And it's not just their parents smearing it on their face,
like you, I've never heard that approach before. I respect
(05:22):
that you're trying not to just as a natural result. Yeah,
that's impressive. All right. So Ryan, I've got to hear
from you just on the fact that obviously you've been
voted I think eleven times the busiest man in Hollywood.
I think it's eleven years running now with so many yes, yeah, yeah,
but so many projects in the works. Yet you managed
(05:42):
to do a daily radio show. Can you talk a
little bit about, you know, why you still choose to
to do that and what that means for you. Well,
the way my schedule works in the morning is Kelly
RiPP and I do a talk show live from New
York from nine o'clock and at ten oh one, I
go downstairs to a radio studio that we built I
heart built underneath the TV set and I have been
(06:03):
going to a radio studio since I was fifteen years old,
So it is part of my d n A. I
think it it allows me to stay up on things
that are going on. It keeps you plugged in. There's
a lot of autonomy in radio. Um it's an unvarnished
medium in a way, so there's a lot of authenticity
to it. But there is no other platform that I
(06:24):
have where I can create the intimacy with somebody that's
a total stranger, um, and I've never met them, but
when you do meet them, they feel like they've known
you for a long time. You know. It's been interesting
to see that happening. We knew that on the podcast side,
but obviously seeing it on the broadcast side as we've
become part of part of I Heart in the last
several months. So explain why that feels different than other
(06:45):
medium that are out there to be in the audio space,
Why that intimacy is there and in a way that
maybe you don't see everywhere. Well, I think part of it,
you know, just just by virtue of how we do
the show. I mean, you're doing in front of an audience.
You're doing it on a beach here. This is not conventional.
It's how we record all of our parts. Good for you,
because my Heart is not doing that for me. Uh,
We're in a room with carpet on the walls, You're
(07:07):
talking to one person, two people. It really feels like
you're having a one on one conversation. You're not performing
on a big stage, you're not performing in front of
an audience. And I think just that, Um, you know
that atmosphere creates the opportunity to have an intimate UH
exchange with the audience, and then of course over time
you hope to build their loyalty and ultimately their trust.
(07:31):
And I think that's the job that that that that
I have build trust with the audience, so that that
trust can also be part of when we're talking about
different products. They trust the products we're talking about on
the air. It's actually pretty amazing for us to see
that with some of our larger podcast with Chuck and
Josh who hosts Stuff you Should Know, which is the
largest podcast in the history of the medium, and seeing
(07:53):
their live events that they do and people walking up
to them and you'd expect them to be more nervous
as fans than they really are. No one's ever nervous
to meet me because they think you're there, your body right, yes,
the idea, yes, and they say you're much smaller in
person usually, But you know, it's when I was working
on American Idol with UH with with the judges. One
(08:13):
of the judges for a couple of years was Jennifer Lopez,
and we would travel to different cities auditioning the contestants
and we would walk through the lobbies and people would say,
oh my gosh, Ryan, Jen, Ryan, take a picture of
me and Jen, And I was like, this is my
place in the world and I'm comfortable with it. That's but.
(08:33):
But but if I can accomplish that, yeah, get their
camera and take a picture of them with the star,
then I'm doing my job. Well, that's unbelievable and totally
speaks to that the power of that medium. So all right, Brad,
you get to to to answer this next question. Obviously,
with General Mills, you have massive, massive brands from Cheerios,
the Hagandahs, Blue Buffalo pet food across the board, and
(08:53):
a business like this, you know you are depending on
mass awareness of each of these products. But we're in
a world where there's fragmented media. There's so many places
that people are being bombarded with messages all the time,
and I'm curious, in your role, how do you guys
have to deal with this? How does audio play into this?
Just how you guys approach this. Yeah, I think the
(09:16):
last few years are approach has really changed. I mean
we actually used to be fairly heavy invested into radio
ten fifteen years ago, and then I think his video
kind of exploded. More of our media shifted that way.
I think with the fragmentation of the big thing that
we're really thinking about is we're trying not to be
interruptive and disruptive. I think that was the old way
of thinking about things. And so getting back it's interesting
(09:38):
on Ryan's point around trying to have that one to
one connection, we're really trying to find ways of solving
problems with our brands, adding value with our brands, and
so UM, that's just a different way I think of
of approaching how we're trying to do brand building UM.
And so that looks different for Blue Buffalos, of pet food,
Lucky Charms, as a as a serial UM, but it
gives us a different philosophy in the way that we
have to think about where the brand comes to life.
(09:59):
So going after mass reach vehicles and trying to blast
stuff out there isn't isn't Philosophically, it's easy for us
to do because we know that doesn't necessarily resonate UM
as we moved to one to one stuff though, that's
where I think that there's really the relationship being built.
And I loved your example on the on the toothbrush too,
because there's the connection there that we that we're looking
and seeking for brands that are trying to be more authentic,
and so radio I think allows us to do that.
(10:21):
UM podcast or another place where we've ben start to
invest more money UM and for us, it's a smart
place to try to figure out how can we add
value and not be interrupted to you, but do in
a way that that makes sense. What's your what's your
guilty cereal of choice? Your guilty pleasure? Uh, Mike, wouldn't
be great if I said, like frosted flakes, that's not
that's not our cereal. Uh No, my guilt my favorite?
(10:42):
I know it's my Actually, my favorite cereal is Lucky
Arms by what kind of milk do you use? Chocolate?
When you're trying to introduce products right now, when we're
in a moment where we can just tell Alexa to
refill our cabinets with whatever it is, I know it's
a very different space than it was even five years ago,
(11:04):
especially ten years ago. Curious to hear from you guys,
as you think about messaging for each of your brands,
how you try to you know, try to not fight that,
but how you deal with that world in which you
can do that so many brands over a hundred Yeah,
you have to brag about it, but hundred plus. I
(11:24):
mean I think Alexa and and the voice piece for
us is I think, on are we nervous about it?
I think on one hand, yeah, because it definitely is
a just a force the habit as people get used
to it and they'll say I want cereal and leave
it up to Alexa to put whatever Cereals she wants
into the shopping basket. So I think on one hand
we could say that's that's a little bit nerve racking.
On the other, if we're doing a good job and why,
I think it's more important to be building brands now
(11:47):
UM and making products that people really want it put
it raises the bar for us to actually deliver that
to people so that they will call out, I want
Cheerios or I want Nature Valley or I want your
play So in a lot of ways, I think, um,
it just puts the onus on on on brand building
UM to be even more important. And we and we
talk about that sometimes like what product or what brand
would you call out if you're actually asking for something
(12:08):
with a voice thing, would you call out cookies or
would you call it Oreo, which you called cereal? Would
you call it cinementos crunch? And so if you're not calling,
if you're calling out the product and not the brand,
then we have opportunity to strengthen it. Do you have
those mint Oreos? No, we don't know. I just threw
out Oreo. Just said you keep mentioning trouble too. That's
not super smart. But anyway, all right, go ahead, yeah,
(12:30):
please pleacuse that is that is such a big part
of everybody has been enamored by. We know a lot
about our audience. We we can we we we know
exactly what time of day you're gonna be pulling that out,
you know, to eat your cereal or whatnot, And that
now is the time that you have to be creating
that meaningful connection with people. And I think people we've
been talking about audio is like this new frontier and
(12:51):
and which is which is great because connected car is
going to add a whole new place where people are
not like as you're driving, You're gonna be able to
serve them content that's relevant. But you've got to show up.
And that's what we're doing in our in our sonic
granding area, which is it's not just how you sound,
what voice, how you show up in a meaningful way
that people are gonna want to let you in so
that they do ask for you by name. And we
(13:13):
we've been talking about in a creative because creative is
such an ephemeral thing, such an ephemeral thing, and in
our creative department will have people who are who are
specialists in a discipline and an emerging tech and we
need to have them there. And then we have our
creatives who are like curious and inspired. But we talk
about their specialists in the human os, their specialists in
the user who's using all of those different um platforms,
(13:34):
and how do we connect all of those different platforms
in a meaningful way where when you show up in
an audio space, which there's gonna be more opportunity for
that to be happening, how do you show up in
a way that's gonna make them say I want lucky charms,
Please order lucky charms and not become just a commoditized effort.
And that's where we are. Are are really excited to
be seeing what we're gonna be delivering on that. Yeah,
(13:55):
so acsolutely looking at not too long ago a study
from Group M that was showing the predictions on spend
an audio and across the board this year, and the
predictions were that in two thousand nineteen we might actually
see spend in radio specifically drop by a couple of
percentage points, which was surprising to me because again, as
we've been talking about, people are listening to audio across
(14:16):
the board more than ever before. And I was curious,
you know, Tim, maybe if you could point to why
you think this is and and what this means for
you guys as you think about investing in the space. Yeah.
So those forecasts, which are historically very very accurate, and
I think they reflect a lot of the current UH sentiment.
I think to to realize a change in those forecasts,
(14:37):
we need a bit of an intervention, and I think
in many ways what we're trying to do here with
our partnership is to create such an intervention. I think
if you want to if you want to change that trend,
there are two things that we have to do. You know.
The first thing we have to acknowledge is that the
vast majority of advertising spend growth has been coming from
eight or nine very big digital companies that have a
(14:59):
kind mindset which is about television into the digital ecosystem.
That's their model. So it's just it's a mindset. When
I talk about the big we're talking about twenty six
billion dollars of spend growth that's come out of Facebook, Google, Amazon,
I A C, Booking, dot Com, Expedia, and a couple
of others that make up that. It's so really driving
the growth. So I think one of the things is
we need to convince those brands and those businesses about
(15:23):
the power of audio in their business. When you think
about the thing we were just talking about about Alexa skills,
I mean the audio input, the audio you is a
big part of those businesses. I think that's that's an
opportunity for us in the medium. I think the second
thing moving digital folks and getting back to the more
traditional space. I do think there are two or three
biases that we need to overcome that are getting in
(15:43):
the way of our people really are doing as much
with the audio as they could or should. Um you know.
The first is a very strong historical bias towards site
sound and motion. So when your average media planner does
a campaign plan, they start with optimizing what they call
sites sound and motion first, then they allocate into other channels,
so it becomes the second or third or fourth thing
you allocate money to after you've really got the TV
(16:05):
and video planned down. But with the fragmentation around those
around those video platforms and channels, I think it's an
opportunity to rethink that. Who's to say we understand thirty
second television ads, but who's to say a two second
digital video with the sound off in the in the
in the stream is more powerful than audio? And so
why do we need to think about it with that construct?
We've got to really rethink the construct. I think the
(16:28):
second thing bias we've got to overcome is the idea
that audio is a retail medium. Audio and radio is
is for retail, and I think we've seen a lot
of interesting data recently, strong brand health data that says
actually audio can be a brand building medium. And then
obviously our own experiences with podcasts talk help us understand
(16:48):
at a human level the power of audio is a
storytelling medium, so we've got to tap into that. I
think the third, which is maybe more tactical bias we've
got to overcome is most media planners millennials living in
urban centers, so they're on subways. The in ubers, they
understand streaming, but they don't understand the car and commuter culture.
And then and they don't have that same relationship with audio.
(17:11):
So I think there's a little bit of this where
it's a bit out of sight, out of mind for
the people doing the planning on behalf of Bread's brand.
So I think there's a real work we need to
do on the audio literacy with just with media planners
and clients so they can really start to tap into that.
I think if we overcome some of those things, I
think there's a chance we could do something about those
trend numbers that you talked about. Yeah, I want to
(17:31):
ask one more question before we turn it out to
the audience here. You mentioned podcasts. Both of you guys
have just in terms of why you think it's a
different space. I mean, obviously you're still dealing with intimacy,
that that benefit of an intimacy like you would with
personalities on air on broadcast radio. But what you're seeing
and trying in the in the podcast space, how does
(17:52):
it feel different and what are you looking to try their? Well,
I think I mean the personality that's there in the
topics that are there, in the passion points are there,
which how to build our brands around those things, And
so I think it's smart for us to try to
show up where people are actually spending so much time
and they're they're they're they're they're investing in that time
and it's a way for them. I think pepper point
is right. When I'm commuting, when I'm doing something, I'm
planning around those moments, and so our brands need to
(18:13):
be there. I think we haven't done more there yet
because it is so fragmented, and so we're trying to
figure out how do we do it more selectively and
with a lot of brands. UM. Trying to plan that
that specifically has kind of been what slowed us down
a bit, But there's tons of opportunity for that. UM.
I think the other piece of this for us a
little bit is, you know, I think creatively we've struggled
with how do you come to life in audio? You know,
(18:34):
you know, how to look at a spot or a
video and evaluate I think that's good or I think
that's powerful. UM. Audio sometimes feels like it's the last
thing that we do. So it's like all and then
and then do something for for radio instead of actually
really figuring out how to creatively to bring that to life.
And I love what you said about bringing up you know,
distinct memory cues or things on the sound side of it,
because I think actually some of the marketers in the
(18:55):
eighties like had it down when they were bringing up
pmnemonics and laughter. We have the Doe boy a goal like,
we don't really use that anymore, and why don't we?
It's like such a powerful sound. And so there's things
like that that we're trying to bring back out of
the DNA of the brands to put into audio in
a much more creative way. And can I add like
so even even with when you talk about terrestrial radio
through the app, you could listen to I Heart Radio
(19:16):
through the app and and be anywhere. I think people
still see it as something that you're listening to in
your car. You could be listening in your house. I
could be out in the world. Once I'm listening on
my phone. You guys know what we're buying. You know
where I am. I'm at Target every Saturday at yelling
at my child so calmly, uh no, not yelling, But
(19:36):
you know like it will it will be able to
I know, thanks, it's not hard to miss Father's Day
every year for can you guys. It's really not a
pain point at all. Um, But um, it's it's something
that I think we are not even seeing that we
can know if you had that that dough boy giggle
at the right time, when you know they're at home,
and if they're listening to it, and and they will
(19:58):
listen to it around the house and on their smart speaker,
if we can make the things more relevant to them
in a creative, meaningful, inviting way instead of just blaring out.
And I think right now we've been dealing with we
don't really know where everybody is, so we create ads
that are that are not within context. We don't know
what you're doing, so we're saying what we want you
to hear and trying to do in a creative way.
Now we know where and we can get more of
(20:20):
an idea of where you are in the time of
day and be much more relevant and inventive and and
inviting in that space. There's one thing I just wanted
to I'm gonna read some of these notes, but we
talk about the power of audio and the power of
the connection, and and bear with me. This is a
bit serious because of the story. But last week we
(20:41):
were on the air and we were doing our show
and this this young man called in and he was
almost in tears when he was speaking to me, and
his story was his name was Josiah, and he told
me live on the air, he said, I'm calling you
because I don't have anyone else in my life that
I can call and talk to. And it was extremely
(21:03):
vulnerable and extremely brave, and it all unfolded without a delay,
and he said, um. Josiah said he always knew he
was gay since he was a little kid, but he
said he stayed in the closet because he grew up
in a religious home and both his mom and his
dad were pastors. He attended Christian private schools from kindergarten
to twelfth grade. In he lost his dad in a
(21:25):
car accident. Now he's telling me all of this on
the air. In his older brother committed suicide. All his
mom has is him and his sister. So he kept
denying who he was because he didn't want to let
her down and he knew how she would react. So
he's breaking down in tears to me a total stranger
because he didn't have anyone else to talk to. He
(21:47):
spent years in denial um It put him into a
total spiral. He joined the military right out of high school.
He was deployed in Iraq. He became an e m
T Type one firefighter, returned to the u US. He
was then diagnosed with lung cancer. He finally came out
to his mother, and now his mom and the people
at church don't speak to him. He didn't know what
(22:12):
to do. He didn't know who to speak to, He
didn't know who to turn to. He has to go
to chemo. Listeners heard this story and called in. Hundreds
of them called in and they said, I will take
Josiah to the hospital. I will help him, I will
be there by his side. These are total strangers, and
you think about the power of audio and the intimacy
(22:36):
of audio. For him to have the courage to call
up and tell that story and trust us to to
put that on the air, it was one of the
more remarkable moments. And this is a guy that's been
through so much, but for days people were calling and
now strangers are driving him the chemo. Now he's met counselors,
he's got experts talking to him help him make it
(22:57):
through it. So that was one of those very very
very special moments that you just when you show up
to work. You never think something like that's going to happen,
but it does prove the power of the connection that
you can have through the voice. Well, and that yeah,
that's a fantastic story, you know, and you described him
as talking to a complete stranger. But again it gets
(23:18):
back to the point you made earlier that you're not
a complete stranger to him. You may not have known him,
but that's that's unbelievable. That's such a great story. So
we all thought that we invented communities when digital showed
up because it allowed people to start talking to each
other at radio and people listening to you, you have
a community out there, and that was one moment where
(23:39):
everybody was able to communicate with each other because you
became that central point. And that is a real open
space now where we're going with audio that may allow
people to be able to start connecting to each other
because it was almost the original community, but it was
a one way. Everybody's passively only taking it in and
now you're able to connect them in that way, and
then your community will soon be able to connect hopefully
(24:01):
as we have you know, all all of the devices
that are connecting in a meaningful way, and hopefully brands
will be able to take partner to an authentic way.
But that's much more curated to you as as somebody
that everybody feels like they know. It's a real humbling
and amazing thing you have. Yeah, there's this idea of
of influencers and and it's not to downplay the idea
of digital influencers or anything like that, but just seeing
(24:24):
the strength of these relationships and hearing somebody day in
and day out, whether it's through a podcast, whether it's
through you know, a broadcast radio show, whatever it may be.
Just understanding the power of that influence when you have
access to these people reading your messages. Maybe a quick
question before we turn it out here, if anybody does
have any questions, is just curious to hear how messaging
(24:46):
and the way advertisers um communicate their message through audio
has changed over the past five ten years. I mean,
I got to hear you do a couple of the
skills reads and explanations of how to use certain products
x UM on air, and it felt so different than
the kind of ads of old that we might have
thought about fifteen twenty years ago. Just to hear a
(25:08):
little bit about how that's changed and what advertisers are
able to do now in the space that maybe we
didn't even think to do for some reason, you know,
in decades past. Well, I know, you know, when we
work with brands, the best moment is that moment where
I get to sit down with the brands and hear
from them what they're trying to accomplish before we start
reading spots on the air. You know, what is a win?
(25:30):
What is the goal? What? What? What? What are you
trying to do with this product? Um? Because you know,
we we think through the lens of our audience every
single day, and how can we best communicate it using
the right key terms, keywords, brand names, um, But how
can we best articulate that in an endorsement in a
spot so that it sounds authentic and genuine and live.
(25:51):
So for me, it's always best to meet with a brand,
meet with a client, and then have that brand and
client give you a little bit of freedom in the messaging. UM.
We do get lots of copy that says read verbatim,
don't change a word, which is fine, I understand it,
but but I feel like I can do a better
job when I understand what we're trying to accomplish and
we can put it into the words of our you know,
(26:13):
of our show. Yeah, we certainly find that in terms of,
you know, the freedom for our podcasters to be able
to work with a set of you know, clear talking points.
Here are things that you need to make sure your
audience understands. But to put in the voice of the
too rigid, Yeah, to put in the voice of because
each podcast is a little different. You know. We have
fantastic hosts that utilize humor a little bit more, others
(26:35):
that may be a bit more serious, but their audience
comes to them for their voice and falls in love
with them for that reason. And so whether those brands
that truly seemed to get that, it seems to work really,
really effectively. So question back there. This question is for
Brad and so you were talking about some of the
work that you did with Colgate, which I loved. Um
from a general Mills perspective, is there an example or
(26:57):
something that you're doing in sound or something that you
could tell us about that you're even testing or excited
about and kind of which brand and why Yeah, I
think um I mentioned the Dolboy before because it's a
kind of a really recent and relevant example for us,
and so a lot of the testing that we've done,
and it's funny because I think previous to this, you know,
five ten years ago, we would have pretty rigid like
these are the these are the reasons to believe that
(27:18):
we want to hit in this fifteen seconds or this
thirty seconds when we're anticipating that this person is on
the way to the grocery store. But I think what
we've tried to do now is pull that back and say, okay, like,
if we're really going to build a brand and if
people are gonna be interacting with it, how do we
use the cues? And so the doughboy giggle for us
is something that we've actually started to utilize more in sound,
and we actually did a comparative piece of creative using
(27:41):
that to one that didn't have the branded piece of
it at all, and it was very similar in terms
of what the messaging was. And we found that the
one we're actually using sound de monics and things that
are really resonant with the brand performed about thirty five
to higher in terms of message recall. So for us again,
it's back. I think it is a out like rethinking
about how to really bring the brands to life in audio. Um,
(28:03):
we're trying to use other things Cheerios as a brand
about positivity, and so what we think about how does
even the sound around positivity. What's it sound like, what's
it feel like? What are the types of people that
should be reading it to their audiences in a way
that can bring that to life. Um, so it is
much more contextual as well. UM, and I do like
the fact is that that that you guys know your
audience is so well we want to connect with them.
So there does have to be a trust of what
(28:25):
you guys are gonna be able to how to deliver
it if we're going to be entering those environments. And
so I think the flexibility is super important too. I do,
especially with brands like yours. I do love hear you
talking about that that power of sound, because one of
the ways we see this illustrated is just walking down
the grocery store aisle of cereals. For example, my wife
and I can point left and right, and think about
(28:46):
the number of jingles that you know from so many
of those cereals, and in a world where, of course,
TV consumption has changed so much that many kids aren't
seeing that sort of thing. If they're you know, if
it's Netflix or Amazon or whatever it may be, that
they almost look at us like we're crazy, Like we've
just made up a song about some you know, whatever
it is. I'm cereal, and so it's pretty cool to
(29:07):
see that idea of kind of bringing that back. It's
it's pretty neat. So all right, well, I think we
are out of time here, but I do want to
thank you guys one more time for being here. These
are wonderful guests. Let's give them around of applause. Thank
you very much, thank you. I hope you enjoyed this
episode of Project Listen. We're back now from can But
(29:29):
I just keep thinking about so many of the topics
we discussed on the beach. Beyond laughing at Leslie's comments
on getting her kids to brush her teeth, I love
the creative thinking from her team, and at Colgate of
course appreciated Brad letting us know how the Pillsbury Doughboy
is alive. And well, and Ryan's story, I mean, he
had the whole audience right there with him, hearing how
(29:50):
his listeners rallied around. This guy's story was just incredible
to listen to. And then having Tim help us understand
why all of this matters and why audio matters so
much right now was just fantastic, overall incredible conversation and
we're going to be bringing you more just like this
all season long on the Project Listen podcast. Thanks for listening,
(30:10):
and be sure to subscribe on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Until
next time, happy listening, m
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