June 22, 2023 • 67 mins
In this thought-provoking episode, we delve into the rich tapestry of image, representation, and self-expression with the brilliant Arsema Thomas. Join us as we explore Arsema's personal journey, navigating the complexities of growing up with media that often plays down the infinite array of womxn, breaking free from archetypes, and the empowering thrill of following one's true self all the way to Paris.
Later, we shift our focus to costume designer Lyn Paolo, whose iconic designs have left an indelible mark on screens over the past two decades. We explore Lyn's creative process, uncovering the artists and cultural events that fueled her vision for Queen Charlotte costumes. We also chat about the significant role her work plays in reshaping narratives and celebrating the beauty and resilience of Shondaland characters.
Join us for two conversations about the power of image, representation, and the transformative experience of embracing one's own crown.
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Speaker 6 (01:53):
Queen Charlotte. The official podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio, Hi everybody. Welcome back to
another episode of Queen Charlotte. A Bridgerton Story, the official
(02:16):
podcast where we're delving into the captivating world of costumes, characters, stories, Stories,
Story and today we have two incredible guests who have
left an indelible mark on the industry with their exceptional talents.
I know I'm laying it on thick, but we're going
(02:36):
to have this journey of creativity and inspiration with costume
designer Lynn Powlow and like I've told you before, my
best friend in my head are Sema Thomas. We're going
to kick off this episode with an extraordinary rising star
who not only graces the screen with their undeniable talent
(03:00):
their beauty, they also champion human rights with unwavering dedication.
Meet our Semotonomas, who burst onto the scene with their
breakthrough role as young Lady Agatha Danbury in this series
a Queen Charlotte, which has definitely rattled all of us
through their portrayal. Our Semma shattered archetypes and discuss the
(03:25):
power of representation in storytelling. We're going to talk about
all of the scenes that brought us to Albernize, and
then we're gonna talk a little just about our Semma.
So she's got a passion for storytelling and she's committed
to social change. So enough said, our Semma is a
force to be reckoned with. Let's hear a little bit
of our conversation. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome
(03:49):
our Sema Thomas to our podcast. Thank you so much
for joining us, our Semma, Thank.
Speaker 7 (03:53):
You, thank you. This is exciting.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I wanted to say thank you from one thing third
culture kid to another. I definitely did a deep dive
on you and listen to a speech that you gave before,
and you refer to yourself as a third culture kid,
and I got so excited because I am new to
that phrase. I just heard that phrase for the first
time maybe two months ago, and I'm like, oh, that's
(04:18):
me for anyone who doesn't know what is a third
culture kid? And how are you a third culture kid?
Speaker 7 (04:24):
So in a way, like I guess I'm a third
culture kid because my parents my mom is Ethiopian, my
dad is Nigerian, but I grew up a lot in
the US and then from the US, I transplanted to
growing up in Kenya, and so in a way, being
(04:44):
a third culture kid feels like being like an alien
in your family and an alien in the world around.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You almost every space.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
Yeah, it's it's it really does feel like that. And
luckily I have, you know, my sister who was going
through the same exact experience as me. But like a
lot of people don't get that, and so it's strange.
It's strange, but it it makes you learn a lot
and and honestly have to kind of take in everything
that the world gives you.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
Yeah, you know, I had a transplanted kind of experience
like you did, where I was living in the suburbs
of Chicago and then suddenly was living full time in
the Bahamas, going to school and everything, and I mean
I felt like I fit in, Like I grew up
with a Bahamian mom and like, but I was American girl.
(05:37):
So I get it. I get it. The way you
spoke about your experience reminded me about Lady Danbury and
really about the Ton, really about the Ton. But I
was wondering how you brought that worldview to your role.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
I mean I think I I definitely did. There's definitely
like the sense of isolation that you can feel in Agatha,
and it's something that I definitely clogged onto when I
was reading the script, is like, she's so alone, not
(06:17):
only in the fact that she's probably usually the only
like black women in a lot of the spaces, but
it's also the fact that, like, she thinks differently than
a lot of people, and she's probably never felt comfortable
about talking about that because she's aware of that difference.
(06:38):
And then on top of that, as you see throughout
the season, there's it's like that thing of the varying
degrees of third culturedness is you see all of those
people who are now part of the Ton, being part
of a completely new society that they've never been in.
They're now in another culture and they have to assimilate,
(06:58):
you know, act like they've been there before. It's like,
it's what Lord Danbury says to her, do not.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Go up like a peasant behavior, So you've been here before.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
That was so.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
Funny, though it's true.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
It was like the slogan for anyone who's ever moved
to another like place. It's like, I'd like, you've been
here before, stop gawking.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
I was like, if that was not someone in my
family who I like, that is so funny. That's one
of my favorite parts and your reaction to those moments
too just just goes to show how yeah, lady Agatha
Danbury is, she thinks differently. I think it's actually really
remarkable to see that on screen. How did you feel
about that? Do you feel proud?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Like?
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Is that the right word to capture how you feel?
Speaker 9 (07:45):
You know?
Speaker 7 (07:46):
I do? I think I feel validated, like not only
like me as are Summa, because there is that sense
of me that's like, oh, yes, you know you got
chosen for this role and they didn't edit you out,
So that means it's good because they have that option.
(08:07):
But it's also like this story for a lot of
black women is so powerful because I think I grew
up and always kind of knew that I didn't want
to be the girl that gets the guy and they
fall in love in every movie I grew up not
(08:27):
seeing me reflected back that I just maybe was conditioning,
but I just there was something that I knew that
my story was something different. And to see this character
at the end choose to be alone and that be
such a power move. I was like, this is this
(08:48):
is such a massive statement. This is the woman that
I want to be and like to be able to
be her actually becomes her is such a generous blessing
to have. So yeah, I was just excited. This is
like to also be in such a formative part of
(09:11):
my career and it's just great.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
You know, something you said though, it makes me think
about what we believe in, you know, like you hear
like award speeches, like how many times has like Lizzo said,
this is for the girl you know who was like me,
you know, when I was five, And I wonder for
people who who hear that and they're like, man, if
(09:33):
I did see something like that when I was five,
how would my life have been different. I can't fathom
what my life would have been like if I did
see myself back then or a story that I connected
to back then. So I think that's really interesting for
people watching Queen Charlotte today to see the characters and
(09:54):
what they represent.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
Yeah, I think it's going to probably accelerate the learning
of self patred that I think that a lot of
us are taught at a really young age, hopefully hopefully.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
So that's so interesting because the opening credits for me
was very emotional. That graphic design of this brown girl
swaying in all of these situations constant and I don't
know what it was, but I was like, oh my god,
some twelve year old inside of me was excited about it.
(10:32):
But I think Queen Charlotte bridges that gap.
Speaker 7 (10:35):
I'm hoping it opens up the world for like all
of the other options, like this shouldn't be the only
one like that graphic is so much like every time
when I first saw it, I was holding bags because
it was like the music and just this beautiful like
girl and gosh, that should be its own animated series
(10:58):
so that like actual young girls can watch it, because
this is a little bit you know, adult, but like
you know, it's it's so beautiful.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
Yeah, why do you think that there's a another influx
of proving or disproving this work of fantasy, this work
of fiction? And what does that tell you about the
work you have ahead considering your appreciation for spaces being
(11:29):
created for you and your desire to create space for creatives.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
So we're talking about the comments that Queen Charlotte Merriman
out have been black.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Yeah yeah, Okay, it's just you know, the whole thing
is too out of left field, you know. Okay, It's like, Okay,
it's a fantasy. Why do we need to do this exercise?
Speaker 7 (11:57):
I know, you know, it shows one that those people
do not see black people to be like them, because
you in that moment, cannot you see yourself in that
black person. Yet for us, we have been conditioned time
and time again to be forced to assimilate to whiteness,
(12:19):
to see ourselves in whiteness, and so that to me
just shows that you do not view us to be
humans like yourselves, or to be something other. But the
thing is, I know that you do something by putting
out more and more because it's shocking the first couple
of times, and after the twentieth it's less shocking, and
(12:41):
then you have no choice. So I think people shouldn't
be afraid by the reaction. The reaction is a cult
that we're doing something right, you know, And I think
we have to keep doing it until there's less of
a reaction. Because why can't a queen be black?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Like, actually why not?
Speaker 8 (13:04):
Actually?
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Why not?
Speaker 10 (13:06):
You know?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
Yeah, okay, so we got to talk. We have to
talk about the look. Yes, I specifically want to know
if you had a favorite hat, oh, because the hat
game was on point, it was.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
It was you know, I love a big hat and
the hat that I wear in the with like the
very bright magenta dress, because that's like the first time
she wears like very bright color. I loved that dress.
I love that hat.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
It's shocking.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
Yeah, I was like, gosh, I wish I could wear
this for more scenes because it's crazy the amount of
detail that they put into these outfits in these gowns,
and you see them for like very brief seconds, you know,
it's it's amazing, and it's also just it shows you,
like the dedication of work that's put into like every
second of this.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Yeah, Lady Danbury is literally becoming who she it will become.
She doesn't wear bright colors like that later on, and
it's just so interesting.
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Talking to lind Palla actually about like just the costume
design and the color story of it all was really
was really amazing to see the way that the outfits
and the gowns and the colors that Agatha is wearing
throughout the course of the season kind of mirror her
emotional growth at the same time. So you see her
(14:28):
wear these golds and these pale yellows because they're not
her favorite color, but she's wearing it to appease this man.
Then you see her go through black and then you know,
obviously a morning period, and then you start to see
her start to like experiment with hats for like the
very first time, in like a more recreational way, and
(14:49):
you start to see her go into like pinks and purples,
and like then you'll start to see her kind of
ideally like in between this time and the Bridgerton era,
start to see her settling, you know, the more dark
and bolder tones that you see her wear In the
Recncy era.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
You looked so amazing. You were absolutely stunning. And I'm sorry,
but the copper tub. Anytime you were in that copper tub,
oh my goodness, I mean just exquisite. So did you
get an opportunity to work directly with with Lynn on
(15:27):
anything specific or any creative decisions or how you felt
about something character rooms.
Speaker 7 (15:36):
I think I wanted them to take mostly the lead
when it came to the costumes at the beginning, one
because I was nervous, but to also because I kind
of mimicked the situation she was in. She wasn't choosing
(15:58):
anything she was wearing, so I felt like that kind
of helped me get into where she was as the character,
because I don't actually know what she would have wanted,
because it's not her choosing it.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
We've only just scratched the surface of our Sema Thomas's
talent and their impact and their dreams. So stay tuned.
After the break, We're going to get into their experiences
and discuss the power of representation in storytelling.
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Speaker 6 (19:16):
Hey, welcome back, pull up chair, get cozy. Before we
get back into our conversation with Arsima, let's just take
a quick moment to hear this note from the casting director,
Kelly Valentine.
Speaker 14 (19:27):
Hendry when Arsama's tape hit. That is someone I've never
seen before. And Arsama's quite an extraordinary young woman, as
you can tell. American also, which kind of threw me.
I was like, oh gosh, are we going to cast
an American accident in person to play Lady Danbury, who's
got the most anguish accent I've ever heard.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Lord herman. And then there is what I call the
port yes, that has my circle of friends all in
their feeling. How did you feel when you first encountered
those lines.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I loved it because one of the first time she
actually explains what is going on in her head, like
when she actually says how she's feeling.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I mean ever, like across the entire Bridgerton season one,
season two, and.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Yeah, and it just feels like this beautiful release that
I think she so greatly deserves. Like you just see
like how tough it is to be not only like
a black woman, but black woman, but like in Agatha's case,
a dark skinned black woman holding on like on her back,
(20:47):
like this entire situation, her family, her like the situation
with the monarchy, all of this and having no one
to really discuss it with because obviously Carl was there,
but there's a power dynamic and there's also you know,
(21:08):
she'd be chatting. Okay, I'm just gonna say, either they
are really really besties or Coral Now she's great, but
can't she be trustingly it's speculation, speculation more solitude. Yes,
(21:31):
your cloak makes a fine blanket if you decide to
have solitude on the ground.
Speaker 10 (21:37):
He was kind, he was joyful.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
I felt joy then I'm glad for you.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
So they're like, she finally gets this chance, and I'm like,
oh my god, she thank god because like I was
like feeling like this for her myself.
Speaker 9 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 7 (21:56):
It makes me think of people like my mother, who
I sometimes realize I have not asked her how she is, you.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Know, oh my goodness you yeah for a second, and
why not? Like that's the question, why don't we Why
don't we ask the counsel of aunties, why don't we
ask why don't we ask that question? It's is it
a power dynamic? I don't know.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
I personally am sometimes scared because if she's not okay,
I'm like, oh my god, like I'll be broken. This
is supposed to be the person who is immortal, impenetrable,
you know, unwaveringly strong, inhuman, and so the moment that
they are human, it's like, oh my goodness, then everything
becomes like shaky.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
That is huge. Every year I look and I'm like, wow,
my aunt, my mom. I whoever was this age when
this thing was happening and I was watching it and
just having an entire different grasp of what might have
been going through their minds, happy, joyful, sad moments, all
(23:08):
of it. I really think Queen Charlotte does a really
good job of getting us to ask those kinds of questions.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
Yeah, oh for sure, there's something like this is Literally
when I recognize what it was and I watched Bridgerton,
I was like, this is an ode to the Aunties.
This is this is really for them. Like when do
you get a prequel that is about.
Speaker 9 (23:33):
The maytriarch roles of the main story, like the mothers,
the aunts, the godmothers.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
You don't usually get that. And so then to show
them and to show also like how instrumental they are
in how nice and how you know, comfortable and diverse
Bridgerton is. It's also then a lot of people go
back and watch the show and then give them the
kudos that they deserve.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
This is gonna sound weird. I'm excited to grieve myself,
like to grieve a former version of myself and open
a new chapter. Like I feel like that's a very
scary hard thing to do, in the way Agatha does
over the port Wine scene.
Speaker 15 (24:26):
And I I mean, I think it's it's difficult to
do without like something to ignite that moment because it's hard,
and I think in that moment, she's grieving, like.
Speaker 7 (24:43):
What she thought of her life. Oh wow, Like she
did not realize that she could do a lot of
the things that she starts doing in that like one
year really that we see all of this happen. I
think the moment, she's like, since I was three, I
was told this was the life. So she didn't realize
(25:07):
that there was anything else. She's been living with like
blinders on, and now that you've died, she's like, oh wait,
now you're saying that there was this option and this option,
and I could have chosen something, and now I can't
choose those things because once something is past, you have
(25:28):
to move on. And so I think it's this fear
maybe that she has of choice. Choice is a very
scary thing when you start to exercise it because the
blame falls on you if anything goes wrong.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
You know, it's a very.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Like independent act to choose something for yourself.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, I want to ask about working with Peven who
played Coral and Cyril, Just wondering what that experience was
like for people watching who are just curious about life
behind the scenes.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
It was really amazing to be able to have Pey Vander.
She's an amazing individual, extremely kind, extremely nice. I wish
we could have spent more time together. And Cyril was
really generous and a really good and dedicated worker, and
(26:24):
like was a good example and like what good work
ethic looks like. It's interesting because you're like put into
a lot of these situations where a lot of people
work very differently, like ways that you know and ways
that you're like, oh that I didn't even know that
was an option. Like Cyril really brings music into the
way that he like attacks his character, so he'll always
(26:46):
be listening to music right before we go onto the set.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Of the era.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
I don't actually even know what he was listening to.
I know someone should ask him, but knowing you, it's
probably something choky. That was really really amazing to see,
and I mean I it was lovely because like Payvent
(27:19):
is really doing it the theater way, which is, you know,
like running lines right before and like keeping it fresh,
which I am very comfortable with. And so to see
her have take the initiative and kind of like you know,
open the space for that was also quite inspiring because yeah,
(27:39):
I usually assume like I tend to take a back
seat and like wait for people to like create this
space mostly as a side effect for moving you know,
world ruled by white supremacy and being a black woman,
but and being afraid to take up space. But so wow,
(28:01):
it's nice to see somebody let me know that I
can do that and it's not read as anything other
than being somebody professional.
Speaker 16 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Yeah, that is refreshing and I love I love your
your footnote.
Speaker 16 (28:20):
We'll ask for anyone, for anyone that's like in life
or just because you're like this is your first major
rule because of life.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Yea, life made it this.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Yes, I'll be the one.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Your career and education and stem and your attention to
Pan African issues gives you a really incredible array of
possibilities as far as like how you can change the
world and move the needle on anything. Your flavor of
activism could be starting the conversation, you know, and that
(28:57):
is that can be the right next So that's awesome
that this gives you that opportunity to start the conversation.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really like the whole saying of
art is political. I'm like, that's like my next step
of like getting into that political art whatever, Like I
love that space. That's something that's beautiful to look at,
undeniably stunning, and yet you still feel like something about
(29:28):
that has to deal with our day to day life.
I love that space, and that's what I want to do.
It's like the people that I look up to, like
Bosquillot and like you know, Kaing de Wiy, like all
these people who there is something inexplicably poignant and stunning
and in filming and TV that'll be what I want
to do.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
I was wondering if just the act of saying acting
is what I want to do. Freese you in a
way that all of us don't really realize.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Yeah, I think for a really long time, I didn't
tell anybody I wanted to do it. And then also
having gone to two separate universities that both have amazing
acting programs and drama programs and seeing people go in
(30:20):
and seeing how difficult the programs are, I felt like,
I don't know. I was like, how dare I just say,
like I want to be an actor? And so then
when I moved to Paris, I didn't tell anybody that
I knew that I was going. I didn't tell them
(30:41):
what I was doing. For long this time, I didn't
tell anybody I was doing acting. That was just between
me and the people that saw me in like the
drama programs I was going to at the time.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
You said you had a Nigerian father and an Ethiopian mother.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
Yes, yeah, I mean what I know. My mother didn't
even know that I moved to Paris after I graduated.
She was just she She called me one day and
she's like, are some sorry, where are you? And I
was like there is was like when did you go there?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
And so yeah, but like we had made a deal
between my parents and I. They were like, if you
do your like second degree, you can then do whatever
you want. And at the time, I was like, I
tried to do a nine to five. I'd worked at
the United Nations Population Fund, and it wasn't I mean,
(31:34):
I was. I was in the cubicle like doing like
preparing auditions, you know, I was. I was looking through
sides as I was in my cubic go and so
it was very clear that it wasn't for me. And
I think I just needed my parents to like give
me a chance to show them and then yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So the moment you quit and left, Like what snapped?
Do you remember when you decided you were going to
buy the ticket?
Speaker 7 (32:06):
I remember I had just finished the Yale Summer program
for acting and it was like the very last day,
and I remember I pulled aside my teacher and she's.
Speaker 17 (32:20):
A hard ass, so I knew she wasn't gonna lie
to me, and I was like, Hey, I need to
ask you a question.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
She was like, Okay, what are some And I was like, one,
what do you think of my braids? She's like, it's
not professional, but they're cute. And I was like, okay, cool.
And I was like that's a good barometer. And then
do I was like do you think I could do this?
Like do you think I should do this? Like is
(32:53):
it worth me doing it? Actually? All I remember taking
away from it was like she said yeah. And I
remember my lease was coming to an end in New Haven.
I had no job, I had no real reason to
be anywhere, and I remember I was thinking about, like
(33:19):
I think I had had a friend at the time
we were planning on living together in Brooklyn, and I
was like, I don't I don't know how much I
really need to be here.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Wow, sounds like a fun time.
Speaker 7 (33:33):
But yeah, it's like it sounds expensive, and I think
I can live like the struggling artists life in a
place that's different, in a place that challenges me. And
I you know, I'd lived in New York City before,
so it's like, I want to be somewhere that is
our summer, figuring it out on her own. And I
(33:54):
was like, I know French enough to live in Paris.
I was looking at tickets and there was a ticket
for forty nine dollars direct from New York to Paris,
and I was like, that is the sign and I
bought it. What it's meant to be?
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Yeah, yeah, for wow, just betting on yourself. I know
a lot of actors are like, you know, I don't
like put myself into the role.
Speaker 12 (34:26):
You know.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
I feel like though, in so many ways, you and
young Agatha Danbury were a match. Just your personal story
and seeing how Agatha becomes who she becomes and just
takes a chance on herself. Yeah, lots of work to do,
lots of work ahead, and we're all excited to see
(34:49):
what you do. And we are completely floored and mesmerized.
You were just wonderful and we really really appreciate it,
and we thank you for your time.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
Thank you. This has been Oh my gosh, I love it.
I am glad that this is recorded because I can
relive this amazing chat over and over again. I'm serious,
hands down top five chats.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
I'm glad. I'm really glad. There's never there's never enough
time to cover it all. But yes, you gave us
the nuance we needed. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (35:26):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (35:29):
Now that we've been inspired by our SEMA's incredible journey. Y'all,
she did not tell her parents where she was. Okay,
that's that's dedication. Before we dump into the world of
costume design with Lynn, let's take a quick break.
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Speaker 6 (38:31):
We're back. You're listening to Queen Charlotte of Bridgeton Story,
the official podcast. Let's get back into our conversation. Our
next guest is none other than Lynn Pawlow with an
impressive list of accolades under her belt, or shall I say,
tucked in the bones of her cressette, including many Emmy
nominations and Costume Designers Guild Award nods. Lynn has become
(38:55):
synonymous with iconic and unforgettable costumes. When you're thinking of
the world of shondaland we're talking Scandal Bridgerton. Her work
has captivated audiences worldwide. So, without further ado, please join
me in welcoming Lynn Pallow. I'm so excited to introduce
(39:17):
you to our listeners. You are the Emmy Award winning
genius behind these beautiful visuals. It's absolutely breathtaking and we're
so excited and delighted to be speaking with you about them.
Speaker 10 (39:31):
Thank you so much. It's reciprocal.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Oh oh no, thank you, thank you for that. So Lynn,
there is there's so much to take in. We could
we could literally just start anywhere. But I'm wondering for you,
where would you start when you begin to unpack your journey?
(39:55):
I guess yeah. Would you like to talk about your
first encounter with the script?
Speaker 10 (39:59):
I think by now most people know that Shonda and
I have had a long career together in terms of
costume design. And I talk about this all the time
that she is such a gift to costume designers, certainly
to me, because she gives me so much creative freedom.
(40:20):
But within that freedom, we do work together very well,
I feel. So she didn't even present me a script.
She presented me an idea. What would you think, Lynn?
Would you like? Would you like, come on, she's handing
me this amazing project, Lyn, would you be interested in
doing a period piece set in seventeen sixty one? Yes, Shanda,
(40:43):
I would. It was that moment of okay. So we
started the process with concept boards, as you do with everything,
certainly on this kind of project. And I pitched to
Shonda that I would love to do a met Ball
and not a period piece. And I showed her an
(41:03):
image from Charles James, who was one of my favorite
designers in history, and there was a met Ball I
think about ten years ago that was based on his work,
and sort of my pitch for young Queen Charlotte was
it shouldn't feel period, it should feel like she was
going to a modern met Ball, And that's how we
started the project.
Speaker 6 (41:24):
Was there a particular piece that struck you as your
key inspiration for our title character, Charlotte.
Speaker 10 (41:35):
For Charlotte, yeah, I mean, if you look at Cecil
Beaton's picture from the nineteen fifties of Charles James's collection
of evening gowns from that period, that was our first
image on the wall that we put up in our office,
and then after that we based everything. The palette was
certainly based on Matisse, so we had so many Impressionist
(41:59):
paintings on the way. Everyone keeps saying it looks like
a box of macaroons, and I always say, I feel
like it feels like a lily pond somewhere in France,
do you know, surrounded by beautiful flowers. So that was
where we started. We literally just took some French Impressionistic
(42:21):
paintings and this one image from Charles James, and that
was our starting point and we built on everything from that.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
Wow. I one of the things that struck me when
thinking about it kind of in a big picture way,
and of course with not having expertise in this area,
was the color palette. Just there was I never felt
like I was kind of stuck in a certain type
(42:51):
of box of crayons. The colors were just all across
the spectrum. Lady Danbury has that Yusha dress, and there's shark, shrews,
there's there are so many colors. I was wondering if
there was any like key direction or thinking you had
about that, especially with each character's development. I'm thinking about
(43:13):
Lady dan very specifically.
Speaker 10 (43:16):
I think you know we were we are a prequel
and there Alan Marashnik did such a beautiful job on
that first season of Bridgeton with the color I just
thought it was absolutely stunning. So we're it's sort of
we're looking at the early years of these lovely ladies' lives,
(43:36):
and we start in one color range and then we
progressed to another. And I think you raise an amazing
point about the show in that Shanda had written this
fantastic script that told us how our characters got to
be where they are in Bridgeton, and so she and
so young Lady Danbree talks about I wear these colors
(44:01):
because my husband likes these colors, but it's not the
color that I prefer, which kind of broke my heart
for her. And then you transition. So we had that
again gift from Shonda of knowing where we needed to
end with the characters. Lady Bridgeton is in Bridgitton blue.
Lady Danbury is in these rich Burgundies, as you say,
(44:24):
very rich, sort of regal colors. She starts in golds,
which are also stunning on Arsima, and when you first
meet her stepping out of the car when she comes
to the wedding, she steps out of the carriage, but
it's not her color. And I love that we learn
about Lady Danbury, that we learn why she dresses the
way she does in Bridgitton, and I just think I
(44:47):
hope that the Bridgitton fans will understand that this is
sort of an origin story. And how did these you know,
the three ladies, Queen Charlotte, Lady Danby and Lady Bridgeton,
how did they end up where they are in the
Bridgerton Timeline.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
Lynn, can you tell me how Queen Charlotte departs from
its older sister Bridgerton since it is like a met
ball and the costumes aren't so tied to the times.
Speaker 10 (45:15):
A lot of the story in our six episodes is
about the introduction of a new, youthful queen to England
and the sense that there is a mingling of society
and there's the old Ton in the new Ton, so
young Charlotte, we wanted her to embody that fresh, you know,
(45:36):
new exciting way of dressing which expresses the excitement of
the new tone. So specifically in the wedding scenes we
see Charlotte, you know, throw off the British wedding gown
and put on her wedding gown. It's sort of a
(45:58):
I would say, an easter egg in a way for
the audience to understand that this is this is a
new world. And so she embodies that in the way
she dresses. I mean, she's very When you see young
Charlotte with Augusta, the King's mother, the contrast is exceptionally different,
(46:21):
isn't it. I mean, one is fresh and young and
the other is sort of very traditional, very period. Yes,
so that was our that was our sort of storytelling
through the costume and then slowly as the years go
on and until the very end of the show, which
I mean I'm still get quite emotional about it. Young
(46:45):
Charlotte has to embody the crown. She becomes full circle
and in the way that Augusta protected her son in
her own way, whether you think it was right or wrong,
Young Charlotte now has embody both the male and female
versions of the Crown. And I always at the time
(47:07):
when we were working on this, reminded everybody about that
movie about Queen Elizabeth, and you see this amazing image
at the end of Kate Blanchett as the virgin Queen,
and so young Charlotte has become the Queen and the
king now has to embody everything about the Crown, and
in that regard, she's sort of she's sort of regressed
(47:28):
back to the fashion that she wouldn't have worn as
a young woman. Now I'm making all of that up
in my head. I don't know what Ellen's and I
should ask I should call Ellen and ask her. I
think that, you know, our story is sort of out
of time in a way. I mean, even though it's
set in very specific dates. But again, it's an origin story,
(47:53):
and the end of my story has already been told
by Ellen Mraznik in her costumes, So I sort of
had to back into that and go, Okay, so did
why does Queen Shawlotte dress this way in the eighteen hundreds?
So that was our sort of arc for her in
our storyline.
Speaker 6 (48:13):
Wow, when I saw your costumes, what I saw you
do Lynn for me, I saw Charlotte compensating or filling
all of that empty space George left her with, and
she had to just fill it with opulence and more
(48:35):
and more. Yes, you could see that arc. There's this
moment where she's got this pink, shimmery dress. It's right
when she is walking to dinner and it's the first
time she sees young King George for a meal, and
(48:57):
however long it's been since their wedding night, it honestly
took me back to being a little girl. It just
felt so shimmery and delightful and flowers like it reminded
me of my era of I love pink and flowers
and everything and sparkly shoes that light up. That's what
(49:17):
it reminded me of.
Speaker 10 (49:19):
You send like my daughter Gemma.
Speaker 6 (49:21):
I love that.
Speaker 10 (49:23):
It's her favorite down. This was a conscious choice, the
pink and the shimmeriness of it and the princess quality
of it. But when when he says, hi, Charlotte, I'm
here for dinner, she is not that sweet little princess.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Yes, I join you for a meal this evening.
Speaker 6 (49:44):
A meal, A meal, A.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Meal, Charlotte, Where are you going?
Speaker 7 (49:55):
Where?
Speaker 18 (49:56):
Are you going, I do not know, just away from
you wherever you are, not Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte, if you'll
just give me a chance, Charlotte, start walking this instant.
Speaker 10 (50:06):
The whole montage of her eating alone alone, you know,
months of being alone, and each each of those meals
was a different costume, which is on the screen for
maybe six seconds.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
We have to talk about that though.
Speaker 10 (50:20):
We kept going, oh, she's changing again, she's changing again.
Speaker 7 (50:23):
Uh.
Speaker 10 (50:24):
The production was going, oh my godlind do we have
to change again? Yes, we do know. And she's a
strong woman and she is a boss in that scene
and she's like, uh uh ah. We loved that contrast
for that scene, and it was the most romantic gown
for a not very romantic scene because she's quite upset,
(50:44):
isn't she as she should be? Her husband's been gone
this whole time, So that's why we chose that particular
gown for that scene.
Speaker 6 (50:54):
Okay, that montage. We have to talk about this montage
because that's what I will thinking of it from at
least trying to think of it from your point of view.
And how little time those costumes, the entire ensemble actually
made it on screen. Sometimes she had a wig on
with curlers in it. At one point, all of the undergarments.
Speaker 10 (51:20):
I know, it was great, and honestly, you didn't see
everything that we did. There were a lot of costumes
that I don't think made it to the cup that
I think the whole montage was just to tell the
story of loneliness, like even though she's surrounded by, as
you said, opulence and these gorgeous fabrics and jewels and
(51:42):
the shoes and thank you to Roger Vivier because they
gave us so many beautiful slippers and shoes for the show,
that she's just alone. And even when you have all
that luxury, it doesn't it feels as though you would
find happiness in that. But I think it is a
sort of a metaphor for life, and that, you know,
(52:04):
without her partner, without the person that she wanted to
spend the rest of her life with, she was just
scented in loneliness. And everyone on the production end kept
saying to me, oh, Lena, I'm so sorry you're having to,
you know, create so much for so little screen time,
and I was the exact opposite. I was like, bring
(52:26):
it on. We were having a blast creating all these
beautiful gowns, I bet, and we created I think thirty
gowns for Young Charlotte before we even had the real
outline of all those scenes. And at one point the
production manager said to me, do you think you're going
(52:47):
to need that many? And I was like, yeah, I
do think we're going to need that many. So and
we did. I think out of the hundreds and hundreds
of gowns that we made for Charlotte and I the pieces,
I think it was about one hundred and thirty gowns.
There was only one that we didn't use at the end.
So we were yes with the matching corsets and the
(53:09):
underpinnings and the shoes and the hair accessories.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
It was crazy, you are playing with my emotions right now.
That's a lot. That is so much. That a lot.
And Okay, so when you say one hundred and thirty pieces,
you don't just to clarify for listeners and anyone like
me who is really just curious, you mean entire ensemble,
(53:35):
so to say, or like a ruffle that you added
back in for a different scene.
Speaker 10 (53:40):
We didn't repeat anything on Young Charlotte, and each gown
is really two pieces, the skirt and the over rope,
So that's so I'd say. I would say it's over
one hundred gowns total. I'd have to check with Laura Frakhn,
who was my co designer on this. But the end,
(54:00):
it's boxes and boxes and boxes of gowns. And I
wish I had an exact number for you. Someone asked
us the other day, how many costumes did you make
for this? And it's in the thousands. For many reasons,
we couldn't. First of all, most people don't do stories
about loss, and I love that Shonda did a story
(54:23):
about loss, about Queen Charlotte losing. You know, it's stunning,
isn't it, and people in mourning that you don't see
that on television or in movies. I don't think very
often in this period, so none of that existed. And
even the livery from the seventeen sixties didn't exist in England.
(54:43):
You know, we didn't rent anything. We made everything. It
was challenging, but also it was fun. I was thrilled.
I'm always excited to do more. I'm the opposite of
some people that I know in my business who would
rather lean into oh well, let's find it. I just
you know, give me a piece of fabric and let
(55:05):
me make something. I love it.
Speaker 6 (55:07):
It clearly seems like less is not more in your world,
less is not more.
Speaker 10 (55:18):
The other funny story for you is that we kept
running out of jewelry.
Speaker 6 (55:22):
So again there's a moment at the beginning of episode
five where even though they're in the dark, Lady Danbury
and by Countess Violet are in the dark, their jewels
are dancing from the light on this stage they're at
the opera. These jewels they borrowed.
Speaker 10 (55:44):
Well, I will say that most of that jewelry in
the opera scenes was we custom made it in house.
But the necklace and ear rings that Lady Danby had
on were by my friends from Lockspur and Hawk in
New York, and they create modern versions of George and jewelry,
(56:07):
and I had come across them through a friend of
mine and you know, written to them, and they were
stunningly kind to the show. And in fact, young Queen
Charlotte's wedding band, that beautiful ring that George puts on
her hand during the marriage ceremony was from Locksbury and Hawk.
(56:28):
So that's actual, those are real jewels. It's not custom.
Speaker 6 (56:33):
I was also wondering how you fix the jewels to
the bodice. Charlotte says, it's a whalebone corset. Can you
tell me a little about the corsets that were a
part of this production.
Speaker 10 (56:48):
Yes, so obviously it wasn't a whalebone calls it, because
that would be very, very wrong. But I think Shonda
was speaking to you know, how uncomfortable your clothes must
have been as a young woman, and how restrained women
(57:08):
were in their movement during that period. However, we did
the exact opposite for young Charlotte. We did bone sort
of the front of her gown, of her corsetory, and
also into some of her gowns, but the side panels
had elastic in there because we did not want young
Charlotte to be confined in her movements. So when you
(57:32):
look at her, when she moves, even when she runs
down the hallway after her brother signs the marriage contract,
she can move. Yes, yes, so that was a conscious
decision on our part not to have her be so confined.
And then you know, with other characters again Augusta, who
(57:53):
was her antithesis, we really did, you know, structure her
corsets because it was important, wasn't it for her to
stand a certain way?
Speaker 6 (58:03):
Oh my goodness, And it's so evident.
Speaker 10 (58:05):
And Michelle, by the way, Michelle was a trooper. She
was like, strap me into that thing and come on,
let's do it. So Michelle's a real She's an amazing
partner when you're you know, having to deal with that
element of costume and costume design in this period. But
she loved it. She loved the courses.
Speaker 6 (58:26):
We got to talk about Young Agatha. I love her character,
what she embodies and what I think I love about
Lady Danbury is. I loved Lady present day Lady Danbury
so much. And Agatha Young Agatha caught my attention first
(58:51):
because of how different her colors are. And I remember
speaking with aji Or before and she said, you know,
I my character the way I see her, she looks
different from the other women. Her hair is straight and
pulled back. She wears darker colors because she is she
doesn't need all the fuss. And Young Agatha is fussy.
(59:13):
She's got curls, she's got flowers, ruffles. Can you tell
me about your team's thinking, your thinking and bringing Agatha
Young Agatha to how we know Lady Banbury in present day,
because that is a journey.
Speaker 10 (59:30):
Oh, it is most certainly a journey. It's almost as
if young Agatha is playing a role early on in
the story. She's conforming to a role that her parents
have forced her into from being a very young child.
And within that role, however, I do love that. I mean,
(59:53):
she is being a dutiful wife and she is sort of,
you know, doing the things that make her husband happy,
although she herself is very unhappy. But she's also managing
to create her own world and surround herself with her friends,
you know, her maid who's become a confidante, and she's
(01:00:16):
the one really who secures the succession of the Danbury family.
I mean, she is the one that has the knowledge
and power to go up against Augusta in our story,
which I absolutely love about the character. But is also
(01:00:37):
a true friend to young Charlotte. So you see why
the two women, albeit it's this sort of strange friendship
later on in life that they do have sort of
a mutual origin story, and you see this transition of
young Agatha from the colors that her husband loved that
she didn't love then through the morning peeriod. It after
(01:01:01):
I asp and passes away, which are actually some of
my favorite costumes on the show. I, you know, loved
creating all those walking costumes that she wears with the veils.
It was so much fun. And to see her in
those green fields, you know, just so pretty. I find
(01:01:23):
her so compelling.
Speaker 7 (01:01:25):
Don't you.
Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
Absolutely? And I love that you said you loved working
on the funeral costumes, because I was wondering if you
had to make accommodations or do any special encrusting of
jewels to make those darker fabrics pop on screen.
Speaker 10 (01:01:43):
Oh, of Agatha's morning costumes are encrusted with jet beads.
So when she moved in life, it just shimmered and
you do get a sense of it, but you don't
see the detail as much as you would with your
eye in person. But it was a conscious choice and
(01:02:05):
a choice that I talked to Tom Burrika about that
even though Agatho was supposed to be in mourning and
supposed to be, you know, not leaving the house all
those things that when she does leave the house to
go for her rambles, we wanted the camera to find
her shimmering in that countryside, and we spent a lot
(01:02:28):
of time hand embroidering all the veils. It almost looks
like tears, but just this tiny touch of something across.
So it wasn't just a simple piece of veiling. So
everything was hand embroidered, embroidered by our in house team.
And there are some of my favorite costumes. They really are.
Speaker 6 (01:02:46):
I love that the tears are in the veil and
that she's still shimmering through because she that whole thing
is about she. She's mourning, but she's also mourning. I
think she's grieving for herself too, like the three year
old that had to be prepared all this time. So,
oh wow, I didn't.
Speaker 10 (01:03:08):
I agree with that, with what you're saying. I think
that is I think that is her time of you know,
recollecting her life. How did she end up here? How
can she dig out of this? Possibly you know, having
the crown take everything she's worked for. You know, does
that fit scene with the lawyer who says you'd either
(01:03:29):
get married again or you you know, unless you can
manage the succession for your son, you're going to lose everything. Yeah,
So I think it's a morning for you know, having
given up so much. So I do think it's quite
poignant and lovely and I so respect that Shanda, in
the middle of this tale full of color and life,
(01:03:50):
takes this moment to be just a little pensive about
the choices woman had, but still beautiful.
Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
Right Lynn, It has been such a pleasure speaking with
you and getting into your head, and you're obsessed about
the story just like the rest of us. So yeah,
it's really fun to hear.
Speaker 10 (01:04:13):
Everyone should know. I'm a fan too. I love it.
I watched all two seasons and a bridgeton and you know,
I'm anything that Shonda does. I'm there, I love it,
I love for work. I'm very fortunate to get to
play in this world, very fortunate.
Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Thank you so so much for.
Speaker 10 (01:04:30):
Your time, take care, Thank you for everything.
Speaker 6 (01:04:34):
Thanks again to costume designer Lim Pallow and young Lady
Danbarry our Sema Thomas. We're really grateful for their time, insight,
and fresh perspectives. On our next episode, Golda Rocheville and
India and Martafillo have a sit down.
Speaker 18 (01:04:51):
Con fact, whenever the Queen is sitting down, she's in
ug boots. Let me reveal that right now, any for
of comfort Gold to Ruschavel can get while playing this part,
I will go there so know this world.
Speaker 10 (01:05:09):
Ug Boots.
Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Lauren Homan, alex Alja Tyler Klang, and me Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Tarry Harrison. Subscribe to the
podcast anywhere you get your favorite shows. Get the book
I'm a Crispy Turn the page, Smell the binding kind
(01:05:35):
of Queen. But you can download it and you can
find Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton story on Netflix. We'll see
you next week. Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(01:05:58):
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Speaker 6 (01:53):
Queen Charlotte. The official podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio, Hi everybody. Welcome back to
another episode of Queen Charlotte. A Bridgerton Story, the official
(02:16):
podcast where we're delving into the captivating world of costumes, characters, stories, Stories,
Story and today we have two incredible guests who have
left an indelible mark on the industry with their exceptional talents.
I know I'm laying it on thick, but we're going
(02:36):
to have this journey of creativity and inspiration with costume
designer Lynn Powlow and like I've told you before, my
best friend in my head are Sema Thomas. We're going
to kick off this episode with an extraordinary rising star
who not only graces the screen with their undeniable talent
(03:00):
their beauty, they also champion human rights with unwavering dedication.
Meet our Semotonomas, who burst onto the scene with their
breakthrough role as young Lady Agatha Danbury in this series
a Queen Charlotte, which has definitely rattled all of us
through their portrayal. Our Semma shattered archetypes and discuss the
(03:25):
power of representation in storytelling. We're going to talk about
all of the scenes that brought us to Albernize, and
then we're gonna talk a little just about our Semma.
So she's got a passion for storytelling and she's committed
to social change. So enough said, our Semma is a
force to be reckoned with. Let's hear a little bit
of our conversation. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome
(03:49):
our Sema Thomas to our podcast. Thank you so much
for joining us, our Semma, Thank.
Speaker 7 (03:53):
You, thank you. This is exciting.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I wanted to say thank you from one thing third
culture kid to another. I definitely did a deep dive
on you and listen to a speech that you gave before,
and you refer to yourself as a third culture kid,
and I got so excited because I am new to
that phrase. I just heard that phrase for the first
time maybe two months ago, and I'm like, oh, that's
(04:18):
me for anyone who doesn't know what is a third
culture kid? And how are you a third culture kid?
Speaker 7 (04:24):
So in a way, like I guess I'm a third
culture kid because my parents my mom is Ethiopian, my
dad is Nigerian, but I grew up a lot in
the US and then from the US, I transplanted to
growing up in Kenya, and so in a way, being
(04:44):
a third culture kid feels like being like an alien
in your family and an alien in the world around.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You almost every space.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
Yeah, it's it's it really does feel like that. And
luckily I have, you know, my sister who was going
through the same exact experience as me. But like a
lot of people don't get that, and so it's strange.
It's strange, but it it makes you learn a lot
and and honestly have to kind of take in everything
that the world gives you.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
Yeah, you know, I had a transplanted kind of experience
like you did, where I was living in the suburbs
of Chicago and then suddenly was living full time in
the Bahamas, going to school and everything, and I mean
I felt like I fit in, Like I grew up
with a Bahamian mom and like, but I was American girl.
(05:37):
So I get it. I get it. The way you
spoke about your experience reminded me about Lady Danbury and
really about the Ton, really about the Ton. But I
was wondering how you brought that worldview to your role.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
I mean I think I I definitely did. There's definitely
like the sense of isolation that you can feel in Agatha,
and it's something that I definitely clogged onto when I
was reading the script, is like, she's so alone, not
(06:17):
only in the fact that she's probably usually the only
like black women in a lot of the spaces, but
it's also the fact that, like, she thinks differently than
a lot of people, and she's probably never felt comfortable
about talking about that because she's aware of that difference.
(06:38):
And then on top of that, as you see throughout
the season, there's it's like that thing of the varying
degrees of third culturedness is you see all of those
people who are now part of the Ton, being part
of a completely new society that they've never been in.
They're now in another culture and they have to assimilate,
(06:58):
you know, act like they've been there before. It's like,
it's what Lord Danbury says to her, do not.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Go up like a peasant behavior, So you've been here before.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
That was so.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
Funny, though it's true.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
It was like the slogan for anyone who's ever moved
to another like place. It's like, I'd like, you've been
here before, stop gawking.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
I was like, if that was not someone in my
family who I like, that is so funny. That's one
of my favorite parts and your reaction to those moments
too just just goes to show how yeah, lady Agatha
Danbury is, she thinks differently. I think it's actually really
remarkable to see that on screen. How did you feel
about that? Do you feel proud?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Like?
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Is that the right word to capture how you feel?
Speaker 9 (07:45):
You know?
Speaker 7 (07:46):
I do? I think I feel validated, like not only
like me as are Summa, because there is that sense
of me that's like, oh, yes, you know you got
chosen for this role and they didn't edit you out,
So that means it's good because they have that option.
(08:07):
But it's also like this story for a lot of
black women is so powerful because I think I grew
up and always kind of knew that I didn't want
to be the girl that gets the guy and they
fall in love in every movie I grew up not
(08:27):
seeing me reflected back that I just maybe was conditioning,
but I just there was something that I knew that
my story was something different. And to see this character
at the end choose to be alone and that be
such a power move. I was like, this is this
(08:48):
is such a massive statement. This is the woman that
I want to be and like to be able to
be her actually becomes her is such a generous blessing
to have. So yeah, I was just excited. This is
like to also be in such a formative part of
(09:11):
my career and it's just great.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
You know, something you said though, it makes me think
about what we believe in, you know, like you hear
like award speeches, like how many times has like Lizzo said,
this is for the girl you know who was like me,
you know, when I was five, And I wonder for
people who who hear that and they're like, man, if
(09:33):
I did see something like that when I was five,
how would my life have been different. I can't fathom
what my life would have been like if I did
see myself back then or a story that I connected
to back then. So I think that's really interesting for
people watching Queen Charlotte today to see the characters and
(09:54):
what they represent.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
Yeah, I think it's going to probably accelerate the learning
of self patred that I think that a lot of
us are taught at a really young age, hopefully hopefully.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
So that's so interesting because the opening credits for me
was very emotional. That graphic design of this brown girl
swaying in all of these situations constant and I don't
know what it was, but I was like, oh my god,
some twelve year old inside of me was excited about it.
(10:32):
But I think Queen Charlotte bridges that gap.
Speaker 7 (10:35):
I'm hoping it opens up the world for like all
of the other options, like this shouldn't be the only
one like that graphic is so much like every time
when I first saw it, I was holding bags because
it was like the music and just this beautiful like
girl and gosh, that should be its own animated series
(10:58):
so that like actual young girls can watch it, because
this is a little bit you know, adult, but like
you know, it's it's so beautiful.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
Yeah, why do you think that there's a another influx
of proving or disproving this work of fantasy, this work
of fiction? And what does that tell you about the
work you have ahead considering your appreciation for spaces being
(11:29):
created for you and your desire to create space for creatives.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
So we're talking about the comments that Queen Charlotte Merriman
out have been black.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Yeah yeah, Okay, it's just you know, the whole thing
is too out of left field, you know. Okay, It's like, Okay,
it's a fantasy. Why do we need to do this exercise?
Speaker 7 (11:57):
I know, you know, it shows one that those people
do not see black people to be like them, because
you in that moment, cannot you see yourself in that
black person. Yet for us, we have been conditioned time
and time again to be forced to assimilate to whiteness,
(12:19):
to see ourselves in whiteness, and so that to me
just shows that you do not view us to be
humans like yourselves, or to be something other. But the
thing is, I know that you do something by putting
out more and more because it's shocking the first couple
of times, and after the twentieth it's less shocking, and
(12:41):
then you have no choice. So I think people shouldn't
be afraid by the reaction. The reaction is a cult
that we're doing something right, you know, And I think
we have to keep doing it until there's less of
a reaction. Because why can't a queen be black?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Like, actually why not?
Speaker 8 (13:04):
Actually?
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Why not?
Speaker 10 (13:06):
You know?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
Yeah, okay, so we got to talk. We have to
talk about the look. Yes, I specifically want to know
if you had a favorite hat, oh, because the hat
game was on point, it was.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
It was you know, I love a big hat and
the hat that I wear in the with like the
very bright magenta dress, because that's like the first time
she wears like very bright color. I loved that dress.
I love that hat.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
It's shocking.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
Yeah, I was like, gosh, I wish I could wear
this for more scenes because it's crazy the amount of
detail that they put into these outfits in these gowns,
and you see them for like very brief seconds, you know,
it's it's amazing, and it's also just it shows you,
like the dedication of work that's put into like every
second of this.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Yeah, Lady Danbury is literally becoming who she it will become.
She doesn't wear bright colors like that later on, and
it's just so interesting.
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Talking to lind Palla actually about like just the costume
design and the color story of it all was really
was really amazing to see the way that the outfits
and the gowns and the colors that Agatha is wearing
throughout the course of the season kind of mirror her
emotional growth at the same time. So you see her
(14:28):
wear these golds and these pale yellows because they're not
her favorite color, but she's wearing it to appease this man.
Then you see her go through black and then you know,
obviously a morning period, and then you start to see
her start to like experiment with hats for like the
very first time, in like a more recreational way, and
(14:49):
you start to see her go into like pinks and purples,
and like then you'll start to see her kind of
ideally like in between this time and the Bridgerton era,
start to see her settling, you know, the more dark
and bolder tones that you see her wear In the
Recncy era.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
You looked so amazing. You were absolutely stunning. And I'm sorry,
but the copper tub. Anytime you were in that copper tub,
oh my goodness, I mean just exquisite. So did you
get an opportunity to work directly with with Lynn on
(15:27):
anything specific or any creative decisions or how you felt
about something character rooms.
Speaker 7 (15:36):
I think I wanted them to take mostly the lead
when it came to the costumes at the beginning, one
because I was nervous, but to also because I kind
of mimicked the situation she was in. She wasn't choosing
(15:58):
anything she was wearing, so I felt like that kind
of helped me get into where she was as the character,
because I don't actually know what she would have wanted,
because it's not her choosing it.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
We've only just scratched the surface of our Sema Thomas's
talent and their impact and their dreams. So stay tuned.
After the break, We're going to get into their experiences
and discuss the power of representation in storytelling.
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Speaker 6 (19:16):
Hey, welcome back, pull up chair, get cozy. Before we
get back into our conversation with Arsima, let's just take
a quick moment to hear this note from the casting director,
Kelly Valentine.
Speaker 14 (19:27):
Hendry when Arsama's tape hit. That is someone I've never
seen before. And Arsama's quite an extraordinary young woman, as
you can tell. American also, which kind of threw me.
I was like, oh gosh, are we going to cast
an American accident in person to play Lady Danbury, who's
got the most anguish accent I've ever heard.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Lord herman. And then there is what I call the
port yes, that has my circle of friends all in
their feeling. How did you feel when you first encountered
those lines.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I loved it because one of the first time she
actually explains what is going on in her head, like
when she actually says how she's feeling.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I mean ever, like across the entire Bridgerton season one,
season two, and.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Yeah, and it just feels like this beautiful release that
I think she so greatly deserves. Like you just see
like how tough it is to be not only like
a black woman, but black woman, but like in Agatha's case,
a dark skinned black woman holding on like on her back,
(20:47):
like this entire situation, her family, her like the situation
with the monarchy, all of this and having no one
to really discuss it with because obviously Carl was there,
but there's a power dynamic and there's also you know,
(21:08):
she'd be chatting. Okay, I'm just gonna say, either they
are really really besties or Coral Now she's great, but
can't she be trustingly it's speculation, speculation more solitude. Yes,
(21:31):
your cloak makes a fine blanket if you decide to
have solitude on the ground.
Speaker 10 (21:37):
He was kind, he was joyful.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
I felt joy then I'm glad for you.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
So they're like, she finally gets this chance, and I'm like,
oh my god, she thank god because like I was
like feeling like this for her myself.
Speaker 9 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 7 (21:56):
It makes me think of people like my mother, who
I sometimes realize I have not asked her how she is, you.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Know, oh my goodness you yeah for a second, and
why not? Like that's the question, why don't we Why
don't we ask the counsel of aunties, why don't we
ask why don't we ask that question? It's is it
a power dynamic? I don't know.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
I personally am sometimes scared because if she's not okay,
I'm like, oh my god, like I'll be broken. This
is supposed to be the person who is immortal, impenetrable,
you know, unwaveringly strong, inhuman, and so the moment that
they are human, it's like, oh my goodness, then everything
becomes like shaky.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
That is huge. Every year I look and I'm like, wow,
my aunt, my mom. I whoever was this age when
this thing was happening and I was watching it and
just having an entire different grasp of what might have
been going through their minds, happy, joyful, sad moments, all
(23:08):
of it. I really think Queen Charlotte does a really
good job of getting us to ask those kinds of questions.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
Yeah, oh for sure, there's something like this is Literally
when I recognize what it was and I watched Bridgerton,
I was like, this is an ode to the Aunties.
This is this is really for them. Like when do
you get a prequel that is about.
Speaker 9 (23:33):
The maytriarch roles of the main story, like the mothers,
the aunts, the godmothers.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
You don't usually get that. And so then to show
them and to show also like how instrumental they are
in how nice and how you know, comfortable and diverse
Bridgerton is. It's also then a lot of people go
back and watch the show and then give them the
kudos that they deserve.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
This is gonna sound weird. I'm excited to grieve myself,
like to grieve a former version of myself and open
a new chapter. Like I feel like that's a very
scary hard thing to do, in the way Agatha does
over the port Wine scene.
Speaker 15 (24:26):
And I I mean, I think it's it's difficult to
do without like something to ignite that moment because it's hard,
and I think in that moment, she's grieving, like.
Speaker 7 (24:43):
What she thought of her life. Oh wow, Like she
did not realize that she could do a lot of
the things that she starts doing in that like one
year really that we see all of this happen. I
think the moment, she's like, since I was three, I
was told this was the life. So she didn't realize
(25:07):
that there was anything else. She's been living with like
blinders on, and now that you've died, she's like, oh wait,
now you're saying that there was this option and this option,
and I could have chosen something, and now I can't
choose those things because once something is past, you have
(25:28):
to move on. And so I think it's this fear
maybe that she has of choice. Choice is a very
scary thing when you start to exercise it because the
blame falls on you if anything goes wrong.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
You know, it's a very.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Like independent act to choose something for yourself.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, I want to ask about working with Peven who
played Coral and Cyril, Just wondering what that experience was
like for people watching who are just curious about life
behind the scenes.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
It was really amazing to be able to have Pey Vander.
She's an amazing individual, extremely kind, extremely nice. I wish
we could have spent more time together. And Cyril was
really generous and a really good and dedicated worker, and
(26:24):
like was a good example and like what good work
ethic looks like. It's interesting because you're like put into
a lot of these situations where a lot of people
work very differently, like ways that you know and ways
that you're like, oh that I didn't even know that
was an option. Like Cyril really brings music into the
way that he like attacks his character, so he'll always
(26:46):
be listening to music right before we go onto the set.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Of the era.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
I don't actually even know what he was listening to.
I know someone should ask him, but knowing you, it's
probably something choky. That was really really amazing to see,
and I mean I it was lovely because like Payvent
(27:19):
is really doing it the theater way, which is, you know,
like running lines right before and like keeping it fresh,
which I am very comfortable with. And so to see
her have take the initiative and kind of like you know,
open the space for that was also quite inspiring because yeah,
(27:39):
I usually assume like I tend to take a back
seat and like wait for people to like create this
space mostly as a side effect for moving you know,
world ruled by white supremacy and being a black woman,
but and being afraid to take up space. But so wow,
(28:01):
it's nice to see somebody let me know that I
can do that and it's not read as anything other
than being somebody professional.
Speaker 16 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Yeah, that is refreshing and I love I love your
your footnote.
Speaker 16 (28:20):
We'll ask for anyone, for anyone that's like in life
or just because you're like this is your first major
rule because of life.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Yea, life made it this.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Yes, I'll be the one.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Your career and education and stem and your attention to
Pan African issues gives you a really incredible array of
possibilities as far as like how you can change the
world and move the needle on anything. Your flavor of
activism could be starting the conversation, you know, and that
(28:57):
is that can be the right next So that's awesome
that this gives you that opportunity to start the conversation.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really like the whole saying of
art is political. I'm like, that's like my next step
of like getting into that political art whatever, Like I
love that space. That's something that's beautiful to look at,
undeniably stunning, and yet you still feel like something about
(29:28):
that has to deal with our day to day life.
I love that space, and that's what I want to do.
It's like the people that I look up to, like
Bosquillot and like you know, Kaing de Wiy, like all
these people who there is something inexplicably poignant and stunning
and in filming and TV that'll be what I want
to do.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
I was wondering if just the act of saying acting
is what I want to do. Freese you in a
way that all of us don't really realize.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Yeah, I think for a really long time, I didn't
tell anybody I wanted to do it. And then also
having gone to two separate universities that both have amazing
acting programs and drama programs and seeing people go in
(30:20):
and seeing how difficult the programs are, I felt like,
I don't know. I was like, how dare I just say,
like I want to be an actor? And so then
when I moved to Paris, I didn't tell anybody that
I knew that I was going. I didn't tell them
(30:41):
what I was doing. For long this time, I didn't
tell anybody I was doing acting. That was just between
me and the people that saw me in like the
drama programs I was going to at the time.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
You said you had a Nigerian father and an Ethiopian mother.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
Yes, yeah, I mean what I know. My mother didn't
even know that I moved to Paris after I graduated.
She was just she She called me one day and
she's like, are some sorry, where are you? And I
was like there is was like when did you go there?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
And so yeah, but like we had made a deal
between my parents and I. They were like, if you
do your like second degree, you can then do whatever
you want. And at the time, I was like, I
tried to do a nine to five. I'd worked at
the United Nations Population Fund, and it wasn't I mean,
(31:34):
I was. I was in the cubicle like doing like
preparing auditions, you know, I was. I was looking through
sides as I was in my cubic go and so
it was very clear that it wasn't for me. And
I think I just needed my parents to like give
me a chance to show them and then yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So the moment you quit and left, Like what snapped?
Do you remember when you decided you were going to
buy the ticket?
Speaker 7 (32:06):
I remember I had just finished the Yale Summer program
for acting and it was like the very last day,
and I remember I pulled aside my teacher and she's.
Speaker 17 (32:20):
A hard ass, so I knew she wasn't gonna lie
to me, and I was like, Hey, I need to
ask you a question.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
She was like, Okay, what are some And I was like, one,
what do you think of my braids? She's like, it's
not professional, but they're cute. And I was like, okay, cool.
And I was like that's a good barometer. And then
do I was like do you think I could do this?
Like do you think I should do this? Like is
(32:53):
it worth me doing it? Actually? All I remember taking
away from it was like she said yeah. And I
remember my lease was coming to an end in New Haven.
I had no job, I had no real reason to
be anywhere, and I remember I was thinking about, like
(33:19):
I think I had had a friend at the time
we were planning on living together in Brooklyn, and I
was like, I don't I don't know how much I
really need to be here.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Wow, sounds like a fun time.
Speaker 7 (33:33):
But yeah, it's like it sounds expensive, and I think
I can live like the struggling artists life in a
place that's different, in a place that challenges me. And
I you know, I'd lived in New York City before,
so it's like, I want to be somewhere that is
our summer, figuring it out on her own. And I
(33:54):
was like, I know French enough to live in Paris.
I was looking at tickets and there was a ticket
for forty nine dollars direct from New York to Paris,
and I was like, that is the sign and I
bought it. What it's meant to be?
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Yeah, yeah, for wow, just betting on yourself. I know
a lot of actors are like, you know, I don't
like put myself into the role.
Speaker 12 (34:26):
You know.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
I feel like though, in so many ways, you and
young Agatha Danbury were a match. Just your personal story
and seeing how Agatha becomes who she becomes and just
takes a chance on herself. Yeah, lots of work to do,
lots of work ahead, and we're all excited to see
(34:49):
what you do. And we are completely floored and mesmerized.
You were just wonderful and we really really appreciate it,
and we thank you for your time.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
Thank you. This has been Oh my gosh, I love it.
I am glad that this is recorded because I can
relive this amazing chat over and over again. I'm serious,
hands down top five chats.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
I'm glad. I'm really glad. There's never there's never enough
time to cover it all. But yes, you gave us
the nuance we needed. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (35:26):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (35:29):
Now that we've been inspired by our SEMA's incredible journey. Y'all,
she did not tell her parents where she was. Okay,
that's that's dedication. Before we dump into the world of
costume design with Lynn, let's take a quick break.
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Speaker 6 (38:31):
We're back. You're listening to Queen Charlotte of Bridgeton Story,
the official podcast. Let's get back into our conversation. Our
next guest is none other than Lynn Pawlow with an
impressive list of accolades under her belt, or shall I say,
tucked in the bones of her cressette, including many Emmy
nominations and Costume Designers Guild Award nods. Lynn has become
(38:55):
synonymous with iconic and unforgettable costumes. When you're thinking of
the world of shondaland we're talking Scandal Bridgerton. Her work
has captivated audiences worldwide. So, without further ado, please join
me in welcoming Lynn Pallow. I'm so excited to introduce
(39:17):
you to our listeners. You are the Emmy Award winning
genius behind these beautiful visuals. It's absolutely breathtaking and we're
so excited and delighted to be speaking with you about them.
Speaker 10 (39:31):
Thank you so much. It's reciprocal.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Oh oh no, thank you, thank you for that. So Lynn,
there is there's so much to take in. We could
we could literally just start anywhere. But I'm wondering for you,
where would you start when you begin to unpack your journey?
(39:55):
I guess yeah. Would you like to talk about your
first encounter with the script?
Speaker 10 (39:59):
I think by now most people know that Shonda and
I have had a long career together in terms of
costume design. And I talk about this all the time
that she is such a gift to costume designers, certainly
to me, because she gives me so much creative freedom.
(40:20):
But within that freedom, we do work together very well,
I feel. So she didn't even present me a script.
She presented me an idea. What would you think, Lynn?
Would you like? Would you like, come on, she's handing
me this amazing project, Lyn, would you be interested in
doing a period piece set in seventeen sixty one? Yes, Shanda,
(40:43):
I would. It was that moment of okay. So we
started the process with concept boards, as you do with everything,
certainly on this kind of project. And I pitched to
Shonda that I would love to do a met Ball
and not a period piece. And I showed her an
(41:03):
image from Charles James, who was one of my favorite
designers in history, and there was a met Ball I
think about ten years ago that was based on his work,
and sort of my pitch for young Queen Charlotte was
it shouldn't feel period, it should feel like she was
going to a modern met Ball, And that's how we
started the project.
Speaker 6 (41:24):
Was there a particular piece that struck you as your
key inspiration for our title character, Charlotte.
Speaker 10 (41:35):
For Charlotte, yeah, I mean, if you look at Cecil
Beaton's picture from the nineteen fifties of Charles James's collection
of evening gowns from that period, that was our first
image on the wall that we put up in our office,
and then after that we based everything. The palette was
certainly based on Matisse, so we had so many Impressionist
(41:59):
paintings on the way. Everyone keeps saying it looks like
a box of macaroons, and I always say, I feel
like it feels like a lily pond somewhere in France,
do you know, surrounded by beautiful flowers. So that was
where we started. We literally just took some French Impressionistic
(42:21):
paintings and this one image from Charles James, and that
was our starting point and we built on everything from that.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
Wow. I one of the things that struck me when
thinking about it kind of in a big picture way,
and of course with not having expertise in this area,
was the color palette. Just there was I never felt
like I was kind of stuck in a certain type
(42:51):
of box of crayons. The colors were just all across
the spectrum. Lady Danbury has that Yusha dress, and there's shark, shrews,
there's there are so many colors. I was wondering if
there was any like key direction or thinking you had
about that, especially with each character's development. I'm thinking about
(43:13):
Lady dan very specifically.
Speaker 10 (43:16):
I think you know we were we are a prequel
and there Alan Marashnik did such a beautiful job on
that first season of Bridgeton with the color I just
thought it was absolutely stunning. So we're it's sort of
we're looking at the early years of these lovely ladies' lives,
(43:36):
and we start in one color range and then we
progressed to another. And I think you raise an amazing
point about the show in that Shanda had written this
fantastic script that told us how our characters got to
be where they are in Bridgeton, and so she and
so young Lady Danbree talks about I wear these colors
(44:01):
because my husband likes these colors, but it's not the
color that I prefer, which kind of broke my heart
for her. And then you transition. So we had that
again gift from Shonda of knowing where we needed to
end with the characters. Lady Bridgeton is in Bridgitton blue.
Lady Danbury is in these rich Burgundies, as you say,
(44:24):
very rich, sort of regal colors. She starts in golds,
which are also stunning on Arsima, and when you first
meet her stepping out of the car when she comes
to the wedding, she steps out of the carriage, but
it's not her color. And I love that we learn
about Lady Danbury, that we learn why she dresses the
way she does in Bridgitton, and I just think I
(44:47):
hope that the Bridgitton fans will understand that this is
sort of an origin story. And how did these you know,
the three ladies, Queen Charlotte, Lady Danby and Lady Bridgeton,
how did they end up where they are in the
Bridgerton Timeline.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
Lynn, can you tell me how Queen Charlotte departs from
its older sister Bridgerton since it is like a met
ball and the costumes aren't so tied to the times.
Speaker 10 (45:15):
A lot of the story in our six episodes is
about the introduction of a new, youthful queen to England
and the sense that there is a mingling of society
and there's the old Ton in the new Ton, so
young Charlotte, we wanted her to embody that fresh, you know,
(45:36):
new exciting way of dressing which expresses the excitement of
the new tone. So specifically in the wedding scenes we
see Charlotte, you know, throw off the British wedding gown
and put on her wedding gown. It's sort of a
(45:58):
I would say, an easter egg in a way for
the audience to understand that this is this is a
new world. And so she embodies that in the way
she dresses. I mean, she's very When you see young
Charlotte with Augusta, the King's mother, the contrast is exceptionally different,
(46:21):
isn't it. I mean, one is fresh and young and
the other is sort of very traditional, very period. Yes,
so that was our that was our sort of storytelling
through the costume and then slowly as the years go
on and until the very end of the show, which
I mean I'm still get quite emotional about it. Young
(46:45):
Charlotte has to embody the crown. She becomes full circle
and in the way that Augusta protected her son in
her own way, whether you think it was right or wrong,
Young Charlotte now has embody both the male and female
versions of the Crown. And I always at the time
(47:07):
when we were working on this, reminded everybody about that
movie about Queen Elizabeth, and you see this amazing image
at the end of Kate Blanchett as the virgin Queen,
and so young Charlotte has become the Queen and the
king now has to embody everything about the Crown, and
in that regard, she's sort of she's sort of regressed
(47:28):
back to the fashion that she wouldn't have worn as
a young woman. Now I'm making all of that up
in my head. I don't know what Ellen's and I
should ask I should call Ellen and ask her. I
think that, you know, our story is sort of out
of time in a way. I mean, even though it's
set in very specific dates. But again, it's an origin story,
(47:53):
and the end of my story has already been told
by Ellen Mraznik in her costumes, So I sort of
had to back into that and go, Okay, so did
why does Queen Shawlotte dress this way in the eighteen hundreds?
So that was our sort of arc for her in
our storyline.
Speaker 6 (48:13):
Wow, when I saw your costumes, what I saw you
do Lynn for me, I saw Charlotte compensating or filling
all of that empty space George left her with, and
she had to just fill it with opulence and more
(48:35):
and more. Yes, you could see that arc. There's this
moment where she's got this pink, shimmery dress. It's right
when she is walking to dinner and it's the first
time she sees young King George for a meal, and
(48:57):
however long it's been since their wedding night, it honestly
took me back to being a little girl. It just
felt so shimmery and delightful and flowers like it reminded
me of my era of I love pink and flowers
and everything and sparkly shoes that light up. That's what
(49:17):
it reminded me of.
Speaker 10 (49:19):
You send like my daughter Gemma.
Speaker 6 (49:21):
I love that.
Speaker 10 (49:23):
It's her favorite down. This was a conscious choice, the
pink and the shimmeriness of it and the princess quality
of it. But when when he says, hi, Charlotte, I'm
here for dinner, she is not that sweet little princess.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Yes, I join you for a meal this evening.
Speaker 6 (49:44):
A meal, A meal, A.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Meal, Charlotte, Where are you going?
Speaker 7 (49:55):
Where?
Speaker 18 (49:56):
Are you going, I do not know, just away from
you wherever you are, not Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte, if you'll
just give me a chance, Charlotte, start walking this instant.
Speaker 10 (50:06):
The whole montage of her eating alone alone, you know,
months of being alone, and each each of those meals
was a different costume, which is on the screen for
maybe six seconds.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
We have to talk about that though.
Speaker 10 (50:20):
We kept going, oh, she's changing again, she's changing again.
Speaker 7 (50:23):
Uh.
Speaker 10 (50:24):
The production was going, oh my godlind do we have
to change again? Yes, we do know. And she's a
strong woman and she is a boss in that scene
and she's like, uh uh ah. We loved that contrast
for that scene, and it was the most romantic gown
for a not very romantic scene because she's quite upset,
(50:44):
isn't she as she should be? Her husband's been gone
this whole time, So that's why we chose that particular
gown for that scene.
Speaker 6 (50:54):
Okay, that montage. We have to talk about this montage
because that's what I will thinking of it from at
least trying to think of it from your point of view.
And how little time those costumes, the entire ensemble actually
made it on screen. Sometimes she had a wig on
with curlers in it. At one point, all of the undergarments.
Speaker 10 (51:20):
I know, it was great, and honestly, you didn't see
everything that we did. There were a lot of costumes
that I don't think made it to the cup that
I think the whole montage was just to tell the
story of loneliness, like even though she's surrounded by, as
you said, opulence and these gorgeous fabrics and jewels and
(51:42):
the shoes and thank you to Roger Vivier because they
gave us so many beautiful slippers and shoes for the show,
that she's just alone. And even when you have all
that luxury, it doesn't it feels as though you would
find happiness in that. But I think it is a
sort of a metaphor for life, and that, you know,
(52:04):
without her partner, without the person that she wanted to
spend the rest of her life with, she was just
scented in loneliness. And everyone on the production end kept
saying to me, oh, Lena, I'm so sorry you're having to,
you know, create so much for so little screen time,
and I was the exact opposite. I was like, bring
(52:26):
it on. We were having a blast creating all these
beautiful gowns, I bet, and we created I think thirty
gowns for Young Charlotte before we even had the real
outline of all those scenes. And at one point the
production manager said to me, do you think you're going
(52:47):
to need that many? And I was like, yeah, I
do think we're going to need that many. So and
we did. I think out of the hundreds and hundreds
of gowns that we made for Charlotte and I the pieces,
I think it was about one hundred and thirty gowns.
There was only one that we didn't use at the end.
So we were yes with the matching corsets and the
(53:09):
underpinnings and the shoes and the hair accessories.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
It was crazy, you are playing with my emotions right now.
That's a lot. That is so much. That a lot.
And Okay, so when you say one hundred and thirty pieces,
you don't just to clarify for listeners and anyone like
me who is really just curious, you mean entire ensemble,
(53:35):
so to say, or like a ruffle that you added
back in for a different scene.
Speaker 10 (53:40):
We didn't repeat anything on Young Charlotte, and each gown
is really two pieces, the skirt and the over rope,
So that's so I'd say. I would say it's over
one hundred gowns total. I'd have to check with Laura Frakhn,
who was my co designer on this. But the end,
(54:00):
it's boxes and boxes and boxes of gowns. And I
wish I had an exact number for you. Someone asked
us the other day, how many costumes did you make
for this? And it's in the thousands. For many reasons,
we couldn't. First of all, most people don't do stories
about loss, and I love that Shonda did a story
(54:23):
about loss, about Queen Charlotte losing. You know, it's stunning,
isn't it, and people in mourning that you don't see
that on television or in movies. I don't think very
often in this period, so none of that existed. And
even the livery from the seventeen sixties didn't exist in England.
(54:43):
You know, we didn't rent anything. We made everything. It
was challenging, but also it was fun. I was thrilled.
I'm always excited to do more. I'm the opposite of
some people that I know in my business who would
rather lean into oh well, let's find it. I just
you know, give me a piece of fabric and let
(55:05):
me make something. I love it.
Speaker 6 (55:07):
It clearly seems like less is not more in your world,
less is not more.
Speaker 10 (55:18):
The other funny story for you is that we kept
running out of jewelry.
Speaker 6 (55:22):
So again there's a moment at the beginning of episode
five where even though they're in the dark, Lady Danbury
and by Countess Violet are in the dark, their jewels
are dancing from the light on this stage they're at
the opera. These jewels they borrowed.
Speaker 10 (55:44):
Well, I will say that most of that jewelry in
the opera scenes was we custom made it in house.
But the necklace and ear rings that Lady Danby had
on were by my friends from Lockspur and Hawk in
New York, and they create modern versions of George and jewelry,
(56:07):
and I had come across them through a friend of
mine and you know, written to them, and they were
stunningly kind to the show. And in fact, young Queen
Charlotte's wedding band, that beautiful ring that George puts on
her hand during the marriage ceremony was from Locksbury and Hawk.
(56:28):
So that's actual, those are real jewels. It's not custom.
Speaker 6 (56:33):
I was also wondering how you fix the jewels to
the bodice. Charlotte says, it's a whalebone corset. Can you
tell me a little about the corsets that were a
part of this production.
Speaker 10 (56:48):
Yes, so obviously it wasn't a whalebone calls it, because
that would be very, very wrong. But I think Shonda
was speaking to you know, how uncomfortable your clothes must
have been as a young woman, and how restrained women
(57:08):
were in their movement during that period. However, we did
the exact opposite for young Charlotte. We did bone sort
of the front of her gown, of her corsetory, and
also into some of her gowns, but the side panels
had elastic in there because we did not want young
Charlotte to be confined in her movements. So when you
(57:32):
look at her, when she moves, even when she runs
down the hallway after her brother signs the marriage contract,
she can move. Yes, yes, so that was a conscious
decision on our part not to have her be so confined.
And then you know, with other characters again Augusta, who
(57:53):
was her antithesis, we really did, you know, structure her
corsets because it was important, wasn't it for her to
stand a certain way?
Speaker 6 (58:03):
Oh my goodness, And it's so evident.
Speaker 10 (58:05):
And Michelle, by the way, Michelle was a trooper. She
was like, strap me into that thing and come on,
let's do it. So Michelle's a real She's an amazing
partner when you're you know, having to deal with that
element of costume and costume design in this period. But
she loved it. She loved the courses.
Speaker 6 (58:26):
We got to talk about Young Agatha. I love her character,
what she embodies and what I think I love about
Lady Danbury is. I loved Lady present day Lady Danbury
so much. And Agatha Young Agatha caught my attention first
(58:51):
because of how different her colors are. And I remember
speaking with aji Or before and she said, you know,
I my character the way I see her, she looks
different from the other women. Her hair is straight and
pulled back. She wears darker colors because she is she
doesn't need all the fuss. And Young Agatha is fussy.
(59:13):
She's got curls, she's got flowers, ruffles. Can you tell
me about your team's thinking, your thinking and bringing Agatha
Young Agatha to how we know Lady Banbury in present day,
because that is a journey.
Speaker 10 (59:30):
Oh, it is most certainly a journey. It's almost as
if young Agatha is playing a role early on in
the story. She's conforming to a role that her parents
have forced her into from being a very young child.
And within that role, however, I do love that. I mean,
(59:53):
she is being a dutiful wife and she is sort of,
you know, doing the things that make her husband happy,
although she herself is very unhappy. But she's also managing
to create her own world and surround herself with her friends,
you know, her maid who's become a confidante, and she's
(01:00:16):
the one really who secures the succession of the Danbury family.
I mean, she is the one that has the knowledge
and power to go up against Augusta in our story,
which I absolutely love about the character. But is also
(01:00:37):
a true friend to young Charlotte. So you see why
the two women, albeit it's this sort of strange friendship
later on in life that they do have sort of
a mutual origin story, and you see this transition of
young Agatha from the colors that her husband loved that
she didn't love then through the morning peeriod. It after
(01:01:01):
I asp and passes away, which are actually some of
my favorite costumes on the show. I, you know, loved
creating all those walking costumes that she wears with the veils.
It was so much fun. And to see her in
those green fields, you know, just so pretty. I find
(01:01:23):
her so compelling.
Speaker 7 (01:01:25):
Don't you.
Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
Absolutely? And I love that you said you loved working
on the funeral costumes, because I was wondering if you
had to make accommodations or do any special encrusting of
jewels to make those darker fabrics pop on screen.
Speaker 10 (01:01:43):
Oh, of Agatha's morning costumes are encrusted with jet beads.
So when she moved in life, it just shimmered and
you do get a sense of it, but you don't
see the detail as much as you would with your
eye in person. But it was a conscious choice and
(01:02:05):
a choice that I talked to Tom Burrika about that
even though Agatho was supposed to be in mourning and
supposed to be, you know, not leaving the house all
those things that when she does leave the house to
go for her rambles, we wanted the camera to find
her shimmering in that countryside, and we spent a lot
(01:02:28):
of time hand embroidering all the veils. It almost looks
like tears, but just this tiny touch of something across.
So it wasn't just a simple piece of veiling. So
everything was hand embroidered, embroidered by our in house team.
And there are some of my favorite costumes. They really are.
Speaker 6 (01:02:46):
I love that the tears are in the veil and
that she's still shimmering through because she that whole thing
is about she. She's mourning, but she's also mourning. I
think she's grieving for herself too, like the three year
old that had to be prepared all this time. So,
oh wow, I didn't.
Speaker 10 (01:03:08):
I agree with that, with what you're saying. I think
that is I think that is her time of you know,
recollecting her life. How did she end up here? How
can she dig out of this? Possibly you know, having
the crown take everything she's worked for. You know, does
that fit scene with the lawyer who says you'd either
(01:03:29):
get married again or you you know, unless you can
manage the succession for your son, you're going to lose everything. Yeah,
So I think it's a morning for you know, having
given up so much. So I do think it's quite
poignant and lovely and I so respect that Shanda, in
the middle of this tale full of color and life,
(01:03:50):
takes this moment to be just a little pensive about
the choices woman had, but still beautiful.
Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
Right Lynn, It has been such a pleasure speaking with
you and getting into your head, and you're obsessed about
the story just like the rest of us. So yeah,
it's really fun to hear.
Speaker 10 (01:04:13):
Everyone should know. I'm a fan too. I love it.
I watched all two seasons and a bridgeton and you know,
I'm anything that Shonda does. I'm there, I love it,
I love for work. I'm very fortunate to get to
play in this world, very fortunate.
Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Thank you so so much for.
Speaker 10 (01:04:30):
Your time, take care, Thank you for everything.
Speaker 6 (01:04:34):
Thanks again to costume designer Lim Pallow and young Lady
Danbarry our Sema Thomas. We're really grateful for their time, insight,
and fresh perspectives. On our next episode, Golda Rocheville and
India and Martafillo have a sit down.
Speaker 18 (01:04:51):
Con fact, whenever the Queen is sitting down, she's in
ug boots. Let me reveal that right now, any for
of comfort Gold to Ruschavel can get while playing this part,
I will go there so know this world.
Speaker 10 (01:05:09):
Ug Boots.
Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Lauren Homan, alex Alja Tyler Klang, and me Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Tarry Harrison. Subscribe to the
podcast anywhere you get your favorite shows. Get the book
I'm a Crispy Turn the page, Smell the binding kind
(01:05:35):
of Queen. But you can download it and you can
find Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton story on Netflix. We'll see
you next week. Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(01:05:58):
to your favorite shows.
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