June 1, 2023 • 64 mins
In this illuminating episode, Executive Producer Betsy Beers and Choreographer Jack Murphy take us behind the scenes of "Queen Charlotte A Bridgerton Story" to explore the intricacies of Shonda Rhimes' writing, the importance of movement in storytelling, and the heroic efforts that make this series an ode to women who remain the three-dimensional stars of their stories regardless of age.
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Speaker 6 (01:53):
Queen Charlotte. The official podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. Hey, Welcome back to Queen Charlotte,
the official podcast where we delve into the world of
(02:15):
Queen Charlotte and explore its intriguing characters. I'm your host,
Gabby Collins, and on this episode, we've got some special
interviews lined up for you. Joining us is none other
than the esteemed executive producer of Queen Charlotte, Betsy Beers.
She has delivered episodes upon episodes of people finding their
persons and she's helped to transform Thursday Nights in our
(02:39):
recent history, y all, and she does everything but drive
a bus. Later on, we're getting up close and personal
with our dear friend, choreographer Jack Murphy episode three of
Queen Charlotte's when we get to the Danberry Ball, and
y'all know how I feel about the Danbury, So okay,
we're going to do that. We're getting into the Danburry
Ball during our check in with Betsy. We're going to
(03:02):
explore the complex relationships of Queen Charlotte, Lady Danbury, and
Dowager Viscouncist Bridgerton and how these three dimensional characters defy
the gravity of agism. We're going to dive into the
way Queen Charlotte of bridgerton story contributes to a broader
cultural shift in embracing the expensive, triumphant, messy stories of
(03:24):
women who have lived. So let's get into the first
part of our conversation with Betsy, who has been instrumental
in how Queen Charlotte came to fruition. Betsy Beers, thank
you for joining us today. We are really really excited
to talk about Queen Charlotte with you. Great.
Speaker 7 (03:43):
I'm always excited to talk about Queen Charlotte. I mean,
who wouldn't be right?
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Who wouldn't be And it feels like a lot of
people are Yeah. I mean, do you look at what
people say after you put out a baby into the world.
Speaker 7 (03:57):
I Am not somebody who absorbs a lot of that stuff.
I will read sometimes, you know, reviews, because I'm curious,
but I don't really take that much to heart. And
I'm not a because I'm not a social media person.
We always start from the place like I'm just incredibly
proud of it. I'm proud of everything that Shonda did
with this and every single person who worked on it.
(04:18):
So it always goes back to the same sentence, which is,
if I love it, I really hope other people love it,
but nobody can take away.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
From me that I love it. You know, the saying
you know your rapper's favorite rapper. I feel like you
are a producer. You are a producer's producer. Like so
to hear you say that is very that's pretty awesome.
I don't know what to call it, but to know
that you can put something out and it's out there,
you know it's out there. It is what it is,
(04:48):
and Queen Charlotte is a big wow. Though, where does
your story start with working on Queen Charlotte?
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Okay, so my story is very similar to Shanda's story
because Shonda repeated to restory to me as soon as
it happened, So I would say that our stories were
in tandem. Because Seanda had the conversation with Ted regarding
his sadly late mother in law who had suggested to
him that, you know, you should just do a story
about Queen Charlotte because she's so interesting and what an
(05:16):
incredible idea. And I just thought it was terrific and
very early on, because like, who doesn't love Queen Charlotte
And a lot of this has to do with you
just do I mean, the lady's a baller. She's a
total Yeah, just she owns what she owns, she says
what she means. She's funny, she's irreverent, she's deep, and
(05:39):
she's got the most awesome, amazing sense of style, Like
who the hell doesn't love Queen Charlotte. So I think
we started with that, and I think very early on,
and she would remember Seana probably remember better than me
because she's got a better memory than I do. Very
early on we talked about her doing the whole thing
because that was something that she'd actually never done before,
(06:01):
which is write something pretty much from start to finish herself.
And yeah, which in a weird way, it was sort
of this genuinely deep and intense immersion in this world
for a chunk of time while the ideas started to
form in her head. So stuff needs to percolate, you know,
(06:23):
with any writer, I think it's having especially when you're
taking on and creating a context which is an origin
story for Bridgerton, but is also has certain things which
are rooted in historical fact. It's a real tightrope. And
(06:45):
the main thing was that it was coherent as an
origin story for the world we know as Bridgerton from
my perspective as the lucky woman who gets to work
with her. It was a delight for me because we
actually hadn't had the chance to do something like that
in a while because we both are multitasking and I
really love that fomenting process is the best way I
(07:08):
can put it. And I always say like, look, I'm
just here for whatever you need, and I'm here for
nothing if you don't want it, but I'm always here
if you do want it, because I love producing, and
to me, that is anything anybody needs at any point,
with the exception of driving a really big truck, which
I won't do because you don't want to see me do.
(07:28):
I'm not a good idea, but I anything that I
can do to help articulate a vision and then carry
it through, that's the joy of the job.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
I'm so glad you went there because immediately I'm like,
what does that look and sound like? Being in the
trenches fermenting, What does that look and sound like. I'm
sure lots of people are wondering, you know, because we
see you all after it's all done and you know,
put together and talk about it, and you know, it
(08:03):
is fascinating to hear how you work yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
And the funny thing always is there's always drama behind
the drama.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
An easy shoot.
Speaker 7 (08:11):
Does not necessarily make the best show because sometimes when
everybody's when there're no obstacles and it's sunshine, lollipops and
rainbows and everything's great, there's something about really digging into
the complexity of a process which I think emerges to
on the screen in a way. And that is not
(08:34):
saying to the audience out there that there have not
been movies and television shows that were just amazingly great experiences,
because they all are in different ways. It's just different
kinds of obstacles make you reach in and find things
you never would have found or come up with before.
And sometimes the obstacle can be financial, sometimes it can
be logistical. From Gray's Anatomy before the launch of that
(08:57):
show to now, the main thing is that we love
something and we want to watch something, and we would
knock on doors and hand people copies of whatever this
product is because we want people to see it so badly,
and then we'll never do the same thing twice.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
That's hard.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Well, the funny thing is it is, and it's not
because movie directors tend to have conversations and stories and
ideas and themes they come back to again and again
and again. It's not that those things ever change. It's
not that the internal changes. It's the platform for storytelling
or a tone, or a world or and I think
a lot of its world, A lot of it is
(09:41):
I just want to get into a different world because
I'm escaping from all this too, and I've.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
Been living in that world a lot. I want to
know in this world.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, And so it was cool about this for
me was it's a whole different perspective on Bridgerton.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Something you just said makes me think about how we
think about representation in what we watch and listen to.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
One of the great things about having the opportunity to
work with Shonda is she is somebody who never stops
challenging herself. And I feel like I'm cut basically from
the same cloth. There's this part of me that just
wants to do the same thing again. You know, there's
always because it's like easy, and it's a pathake and
it's like lines that I've learned in a play. It's
(10:24):
like and I don't sleep well with that. Life is
really short and there's all this stuff. What did I
learn from this and how can I apply it to this?
And I think are absolutely right in terms of representation,
which is it's not good enough just to sit there
and say, well, goody two shoes, we got that. Wow,
this situation has changed, or this perception has changed. There's
(10:44):
so much more. There's so much more to be done.
There's another conversation. And every single time we go through
another transition period of awareness and acknowledgment, it has to
reflect where we've been, but also where do you want
to go?
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. I see Sheryl Lee, Ralph,
you know, win an award and it's like, yes, I
see you know, the cast of Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte.
I'm like yeah, And then I think my cup is full.
And I see the opening credits to Queen Charlotte on Netflix.
(11:23):
I have not seen them before, that graphic, and it
was emotional for me. I was like, wait a minute,
hold on, because I thought I was fulfilled and that
you know, where we are right now would kind of
just kind of be where we are for a few decades,
you know, like we But those opening credits did something
(11:45):
else to me, and I don't I don't know what
it is, but wow, I don't know, I don't know
what it is. There's a great opening credits, aren't they that? Yeah,
we were so excited.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Scott Collins, who is our is our post genius at Schondela,
we all reacted the same way which this pitch sort
of came in. It was like, there's this amazing understated elegance,
but yet you can kind of fill in the blanks
as you watch it, and it's got this great it's
sort of telling you what's happening, but it's not telling
(12:16):
you what's happening. Look, so much of what the show
is about and also what you're describing, which is, well,
you're not describing exactly, but I'm probably putting words in
your mouth. But is the whole concept of life is
about palace intrigue, right? I mean it's it's to a
large degree, it's what we do with every day in
different ways. And what's great about the opening credits and
(12:36):
the show is like, how do you ever learn the rules?
And who do you want to be in that context? Yeah,
because so much of Queen Charlotte for me, is about
having the agency to change the rules.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
You know, nobody talks about Princess Augusta. I love Nissan
Princess Augusta, right.
Speaker 7 (12:55):
I mean, and yes, I think that there's something amazing
about the relationship between Agatha and Augusta. But it's looking
at the way a woman at this particular period of
time who's also protecting our child. It's the closest thing
to the crown she could get. And she is running things,
but she's running things in this incredibly shadow like way,
(13:19):
and she's constantly pivoting and moving and as opposed to
those you know, old dim dudes who are sitting behind
her are sort of like dusty and egg stained and
don't really know what they're doing. Like, she's sharp and
she's got her shit together and she egg stained and
all sorry and all she wants. All she wants is
(13:40):
a real freaking debate, you know. An Agatha comes in
and it's like there is a debate. I know, this
is getting very theoretical. And I apologize because I'm not
talking about the great actors yet or anything, because everybody's
really good and everyone knows it.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
Okay, well you brought up the actors. They're great.
Speaker 7 (13:58):
Yeah, I'm bouncing up and down to my right now
nobody can see me do it, but I'm doing it
because I'm freaking nerds.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
So that's what I do. Do you do you really
nerd out about casting young Really? Is that one of
your favorite parts of the process. I love casting. I
love casting.
Speaker 7 (14:12):
I started as a really bad actor, so I have
a special place in my heart for actors.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
And also I.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
Believe in a kind and conducive atmosphere for actors to
try to do their best work, which is something which
we have been complimented on as a company, which means a.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Lot to me. But I just love casting.
Speaker 7 (14:33):
I mean, and I could we could hardly wait to
get our hands on this one. So Kelly Valentine Henry,
who did obviously Bridgerton and is a genius and wonderful,
she found some of the most incredible young talents.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Everybody was really good.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
We saw a lot of really good people, but each
one of those three initial youngsters. And by the way,
same with young Brimsley and Reynolds and you know Tom
and Alison Akle who runs great for Shondaland and Shonda
and I like all agreed, they're magical.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
Wow, All right, go refresh your coffee. We've got more
with Betsy Beers right after.
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Speaker 6 (17:57):
Welcome back to Queen Charlotte the Official podcast. We're talking
with executive producer Betsy Beers. Let's get back into it.
So in this episode, it's where we have the Danbury Ball,
and I'm wondering if you could give us a little
bit about two things, the great experiment and what the
(18:18):
goal is. And I would love to talk about Danbury,
Queen Charlotte and Violet as women over fifty.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
First, I will speak to the unique situation of being
an older woman in society and it's certainly one of
the things I do love about Bridgerton, But specifically I
love the way Shonda set the table to really allow
us to dig into both with the backstory of Agatha
(18:55):
and understanding Agatha as an older, independent, free woman and
the contrast with that and Violet, who hasn't explored the
power of the majesty of her age because she lost
a husband at a young age. I think there's a
part of her that died when her husband died, she thinks,
(19:16):
which is why the whole kind of idea of the
garden blooming is so wonderful. And how Seanda came up
with that. I first read that and I laughed until
stuff came out of my nose. I mean, it's the best,
it's but it's it's the best because you're watching a
character who has supported and loved and worried and canny
for the better of her children, who's never ever taken
(19:40):
a moment to pay attention to herself. And it's the
first time in the history of the series. I mean,
all whatever, we've had twelve episodes of Bridgerton and about
to have, you know, another eight, but it's not twelve.
I can't do my math whatever the hell it is,
eighteen sixty sixty that's it. I knew, this is why
I didn't go into mathmat But we've had all of
(20:01):
these episodes in which we've been digging into the issues
of the heart and the ton and the world. And
God bless Shonda Man because Queen Charlotte is so much
about how we process who we are and what we
still can be as we get older. And what's so
(20:24):
great about watching Violet discover and realize that there might
be a world out there, I think is so encouraging
and such a loving gift to so many women who
thought you had to close the door, because it is
still an issue that we are ignored.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
And we are invisible, and.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
So many women in so many walks of life right
now are no matter what the age as we know.
I think it speaks to also us understanding. At the
end of all the comedy and you know, sars and
prayers and the hysterical scenes with the kids, this amazing
scene where you realize that she gave up her children
(21:09):
for her husband, and both Brimsley and her children confront
her with that fact, and that even at a point
that Queen Charlotte has has come to in this magnificence
of her life, she realizes she she would not do
(21:33):
it any other way, probably, but she gets a don't
I think because she I think for me the end
of the series, when the amazing under the bed stuff
is yeah, she's in it to win it, baby, and
she didn't see that she wasn't there for her kids
because it was all about the Kim and then all
(21:55):
about the country. And those are the sacrifices you make,
you know, part of what power and responsibility is.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
But that power and responsibility, that part that's the That
for me is what I love about seeing these three characters,
especially and and Charles Kerer as as Lord Leger and
Cyril and Nui as Herman Danbury. Just all that texture
(22:23):
and backstory. I mean, that's I mean that it's yeah.
I my favorite moment was the Pair Brandy moment.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
But there's this. I have a new favorite moment, the
Pair Brandy moment. We have to just take a moment
because the Pair Brandy moment is so baller, I mean,
because it's like, let's just take all this is what
we do in this situation. You don't know this yet,
this is what we do. It's now get to it.
Drink this Brandy, get to it.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
And get back to normal because I'm not putting up
of this ship.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Right.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
I need a Princess Augusta and I want to be
someone's Princess Augusta. Like for real, that moment is amazing.
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Right, You have been an admirable adversary. Thus far our
battles bring me satisfaction. So this will not do it.
You are not allowed to come here, and so you
may not quit.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
Lady Dan Brees figured out a way in her elder years.
If do you want to call it that, I would
call it middle age, but I'm not supposed to anymore.
I guess she has figured out ways of enjoying the
process of doing what she wants and being to say
what she wants and living her life. But there's something
amazing about her journey back in time that Queen Charlotte
(23:49):
affords us that helps contextualize it. And also this amazingly
weird secret she has from Violet. I mean, yeah, we've
all had weird stuff in our lives, and it's that
incredible scene where you don't know what's going to happen,
and I always start to get all sweaty because it's
(24:10):
like this is going to be so weird, and then
Violet right just they both kind of go okay, got
it moving on, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 6 (24:25):
So I feel like in the way a lot of
what we see teaches us how to resolve conflict. This
show taught us how to be friends in a weird way.
That's beautiful. That's a beautiful thing. Yes, I will take
off the weird way part. That's just me being oh,
that's beautiful thing.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
That I think you're right, I think because it's so
much about all these different friends. I mean, you look
at King George and Reynolds who've been friends since they
were kids, and that Reynolds protects him like a brother,
and what you do, what do you do? And you
know your friend is in need and you can't you're
not allowed to be his friend anymore. You know, it's
(25:07):
Charlotte and Danbury navigating this world and how can you
actually be friends but also make sure that you survive
in the world that you're in. And it's the older
Violin and Danbury sorting their stuff out in this incredibly
elegant and mature way. It's Old Brimsley and Queen Charlotte.
(25:29):
You know, it's so much of this is about when
you invest in the garden that is a friendship. How
do you make the flowers keep growing because their go
through periods where they don't. And there's amazing moments where
Lady Danbury, young Lady Danbury, and the moments where it's
is she compromising her friend by using her as a
(25:52):
mouthpiece for the great experiment. Oh, she bargains with Augusta.
She's very careful about it, and she does the right thing.
But she has a responsibility to all those people show
up at her house and they say, what's she going
to do about this? They're going to take our they're
going to take our titles away.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
What you're going to do?
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Like this is no good? And she figures out away
without compromising Queen Charlotte. But she figures out away, and
I think being pretty honest with Queen Charlotte, who's a
little not conscious of a lot of this stuff throughout
the whole thing. So so I think it's so interesting
the way Danbury has to drive the train, do a dance,
but drive the train because Charlotte's catching up to speed
(26:35):
and Danbury's like, you know, Charlotte's in the train behind going.
I don't understand what all the importance is. And every
single time right because she doesn't understand to roll in
this from the beginning, How could she. She didn't have
the situation when she was in Germany, there were none
of these issues. She showed up at this place and
she's living alone in a house with no husband, a
(26:57):
weird dude who's following her around all day long, and
she's like twelve. Right, And you have this woman who's
a little older than she is but has lived the
life of three women. She's had four hundred children, she's
been with a man that essentially was an arranged marriage,
and there are two different points of their lives, but
(27:20):
it's like two different errors just collide.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Right.
Speaker 7 (27:24):
What a lot of responsibility for Danberry and what an
incredible introduction to a consummate politician. Oh wow, right, yeah wow.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I saw an old ted talk that Arsena Thomas, who
plays young Lady Danberry, did about five or six years ago,
and she ended it with saying, strong women are made.
And I'm like, oh, man, Like, did she even know
she was going to play that role? No, of course
she didn't, But man, Danberry was made. She's made. She's made.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
But at every step of the way, she's conscious. Yeah,
she's conscious. And it's like I think with Charlotte. Charlotte's
consciousness evolves in a different kind of way, which is
what's also great about watching those two characters, and as
they become friends and as they become allies, but it's
an amazing moment where like Queen Charlotte shows up at
(28:21):
her house and goes, I guess what I'm living here now?
And she understands none any implications of this, and somehow
or another, Danbury has to be responsive to that and
responsive to her friend, but also figure out a way
to protect her friend what she doesn't understand, but also
(28:43):
protect herself.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
And that's really hard. Is there anything about the Danberry
ball which you have known? The Danburry Ball was going
to be a key role in explaining the great experience
or give theah. I knew that.
Speaker 7 (29:01):
I knew that it had to be because it's such
a huge plot point. But it's the first time Charlotte
starts to understand her position, you know, it's the first
time that when Danbury comes and explains, I mean, they're two.
One of the funniest is, of course, when Danbury explains
how to have sex. That's a different role.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
But and then later on Queen Charlotte had the nerve
to tell her children I drew you pictures like girl,
and then like, guess who drew them first? Bit?
Speaker 7 (29:28):
Just credit credit the author. She probably pulled out the
old pictures.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Right, Yeah, Grimsley grabbed those pictures exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
No, I think the Danburry Ball is this incredibly pivotal
moment because the only way that they'll be accepted in
society is if a miracle happens, and the miracle is
nobody can deny it, if the King and the Queen
show up right. And this is a question for you, actually,
how can conscious do you think Charlotte is when she
(30:04):
asked George of how momentous this thing is.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked I. Originally, when I
the first couple times I watched it, I said, Okay,
Charlotte used her sexuality, she learned a little something something,
and she had some pillow talk. Then I started to
think to myself, they had a conversation, they together decided
(30:31):
and master planned that they would do this together. I
do think Charlotte at that point knew what it was
and that George young George was on board.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
I always look at Charlotte and go like, what level
of awareness does she have of the magnitude of it.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
It's the moment she holds her stomach in front of
the mirror for me, right before she goes to see
George and I love those little quick five second shots
that you know, after seventeen times watching it, you're like, oh,
that is like five hours worth of context right there.
You know, she's she's thinking no longer just thinking of herself.
(31:10):
She's thinking of the legacy. And that's why I really
love Young Charlotte too, because she's just seventeen, and that
moment in the garden when she sees young George decompensating,
like she makes a choice in that moment, I think
as privileged and maybe a little ignorant to her privilege
that she is. She was really cognizant of what the
assignment was. That's why she's cognizant with the assignment is.
(31:33):
But for me, what's interesting is she doesn't know what
it means to be a leader and what that implies.
Speaker 7 (31:40):
And for me, what that is is the oranges, because
she has somebody. Oh, she says, I'm gonna get an orange,
and a man comes over and gets the orange. You know,
he gets the orange, gives her the orange, and she's like, okay,
and then she says, from now on, I want to
pick my own oranges. And everybody looks a bit of
gas and Brimsey's says okay, and then the next time
(32:01):
she's there, she's.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Like, where did everybody go? It's like, will you let
them go? Ma'am.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
It's each of those moments which are little building blocks
that you and that to me was and I said,
I think when I first read it, I just said,
this is the most incredibly beautiful example of the effect
one person has on thousands of people. So and that
(32:31):
each step of the way, I feel like, there's this
little there's this little you know, it's like an aperture.
And for her, the aperture just keeps opening, and it
keeps opening, it keeps opening. In the middle of this
it's it's an aperture about England and society and this
woman who got dumped in a place that she didn't know,
(32:52):
and she doesn't know and she doesn't understand the food,
and everybody dresses terribly in the whole nine yards and
there's that aperture, and then in the middle of it
is George, who she thinks is one thing and turns
out to be another. But it doesn't matter because as
the aperture opens, she realizes this is who she is.
It's literally, I would rather have half a man and
(33:16):
half a king.
Speaker 12 (33:18):
If what we have is half, then we shall make
it the very best half. I love you, tisn'teno. I
am your queen, and as long as I am so,
I shall never leave your side. You are king, You
will be king, Your children will rule together. We are whole.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
I think she evolves so incredibly to that place, and
then as a woman who literally goes in and refuses
to let him torture himself anymore, which she's doing because
he loves her and he doesn't want her to have
to suffer. She's and she gets her agency, gets her power.
(34:00):
A Gusta looks at her in episode six, I think,
and says and pretty much goes, it's all yours now,
oh man, yeah, And I'm.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Like, whoa, this show is so good, right, That's what
I mean.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
It's like it's like it's you're just peeling the onion.
You keep killing the you know, I didn't know there
was another onion in the onion, right. But that's the thing,
you know, And not to stay at the obvious, but
that's the thing about Shonda and Shonda's writing and the
way Shonda's brain works, and how she never loses sight
of the fact that her characters and the worlds in
(34:36):
which she immerses us are always current and relevant. It
doesn't matter what the time period is, It doesn't matter
what the context is. Be at a hospital, be at Washington, Yeah,
be it Georgia and England. It's we're sitting and having
this conversation because all of those things actively speak to us,
and they're wearing beautiful costumes designed by the incredibly talented
(34:58):
Linn Powow, and they're being direct beautifully by Tom Verica.
But the reason we're having the conversations because all of
these things are still relevant right now, and you could
change the time period and you could be having exactly
the same conversations about all of it. Because great experiment.
(35:18):
Sure shit isn't over, she says, as a gigantic understatement,
And you know, what is your responsibility and duty as
a leader versus your responsibility and duty as a mother
or a wife, or a husband or devout friend like
Grimsley or devout friendly Brimsley and a man who gave
(35:41):
up his entire personal life because of his love and duty.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
For a queen. If you watch Queen Charlotte, if you
watch it, you will leave with a life lesson or two.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
And I'll tell you something, and if you watch it again,
you'll find even more because it's a I think the
funny thing about watching things and binging is it's great
because what you absorb is the top layer and deep deep.
People smarter people than I probably get multiple layers. But
keep if you keep going back and you keep watching it,
(36:18):
and it can be like you said, it can be
a moment, it can be episodes, it can be you
see different things. And like I said, you said, what
is the thing that I love most about my job
or what am I good at? I love the fact
that I can see so many points of view and
that it's one of the reasons I had to stop
being an actor because a director pulled me aside and said,
(36:39):
you're not advocating for your character, and I said, but
there's so many characters and they all have really good points,
which is why I was a really shitty actor. But
it makes me a really good producer because and a
good viewer, because there's something to everyone's point of view
in this and that allows allows you to look at
(37:00):
the world to me with a sense of excitement and
some generosity and curiosity and also impatience, which is I
think where.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
We should be. You are amazing. We can't thank you
enough for your time. Wow now and thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (37:14):
Thank you so much for letting me take a trip
to one of my favorite places in the world.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
That's the cue. But don't go too far. We've got
Jack Murphy, the choreographer coming up right after this break.
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Speaker 6 (40:08):
All right, everyone, to close out this episode, we are
honored to have a true maestrow of movement and artistry
joining us. Jack Murphy, choreographer of Queen Charlotte A Bridgerton story. Welcome, Welcome, welcome, well, hello,
I've been trying to withhold all of my excitement enjoy
of getting to spend some time with you so that
(40:29):
I can capture it for the recording. But I really
I'm really really happy to see you and to just
hear what you've been up to and just laugh with you.
Speaker 13 (40:39):
So how have you been, Gabriella. It's so kind of you,
because do you know I had never done a podcast
until you invited me to do one with you for
Bridgeton Season one, and it was it was an event
for me.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
Are you experiencing any full circle moments this time around
or in the years since yarding Bridgerton while working on
Queen Charlotte, Because Queen Charlotte is so much about that
looking back and looking forward and connecting dots in.
Speaker 13 (41:11):
Time comes out so much in the process now because
of Bridgeton and the process of Bridgeton and the process
of Bridgeton and time being in the early nineteenth century,
but using a style from the twentieth and twenty first
century to fuse the dancing, to give it a modernity
and interesting that full circle, however you interpret that, I
(41:36):
use the same kind of idea by with Queen Charlotte,
using the experience of playing with time, I went back
to Baroque, but then jumped forward to ballet, so obviously
using lots of fusion again as that's, as you know,
one of my favorite works.
Speaker 14 (41:55):
Yes, yes, but in terms of this full circles like
it's just it's no project I have no experience of
anything like Bridgeton and now Queen Charlotte, so everything is
of a time distortion.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
I'm so curious about how you incorporated the costume and
the flow of all those silhouettes in your choreography, and
like how you take that into your process as a creator.
Speaker 13 (42:29):
I'm very particular because I think if you were a costume,
you're relying on it to do the work for you.
You must become one with the costume, and therefoot becomes
your clothes, because they were their clothes. They weren't their costumes. Yes,
of course, deeply you know fine, you know materials, but
so I know what it is to live and to
be and to move in those in the cut. You
(42:50):
know the coture of those gowns and those fabrics. So
the process obviously with dramas called training with Jane and
with Diana taking that onto the dance floor, with Diana
wearing it and knowing that it had to be part
of me. So but particularly on Queen Charlotte, there was
(43:11):
an extraordinary process because actually I was invited by the
costume team to go and teach them a dance that
the actors would do, so they would get a sense
of what the actors were required. And this is the
first time ever, ever thirty five years, well five years,
(43:35):
I was an actor of thirty years. And I had
the most glorious afternoon teaching the custume department of Queen
Charlotte a country dance unbeknownst to them that would appear
in Queen Charlotte because I had just that week choreographed it.
And it's a dance that takes place at the Danver Ball.
Speaker 14 (44:02):
Royal Highness, Princess Augusta.
Speaker 9 (44:10):
Lord Denbury, Lady, I am on your own.
Speaker 13 (44:14):
The honor is ours, the wonderful Danbury Ball, the conception
of the Danburry War right, so Lynn shared the designs
of obviously the most extraordinary in teress for the marriage.
(44:36):
For the wedding, I turned blue. So yeah, it was.
It was challenging, it was frightening, it was illuminating. It
was completely and utterly by the end of it, absolutely
(44:58):
flying as one. And by at the end, I was
choreographing dances with trains that would normally have me getting
on an airline, you know, going somewhere because the extraordinary.
But then the team and I we would talk regularly
and then we were on set for the we're on
set for the Danburrie. We're talking about the Kings Ball.
So there was a communication and a dialogue and a
(45:21):
narrative that was so healthy and just bread confidence.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
Great, right, it seems. So it was non stop collaboration
on because yeah, those dresses, those gowns are huge, those
suits are so stately, so beautiful. Fact it also looks
heavier for the like, oh, for the scenes when they're
(45:47):
all younger.
Speaker 13 (45:48):
So, contrary to pop belief, I have never worn one
of those dresses. I've certainly worn the coats. But you know,
but maybe I have to try one day just to
kind of like I have a little more empathy with
my fabulous actresses. So my process, as you know, starts
with research, and its research starts with the script, and
(46:10):
obviously it tells me and so I, you know, I
start looking at my pictures. My goodness, looking at the
shapes in my pictures. Wow, here we have and I
know it's a court ball because of the finesse. And
I can see that they're on the rise. So I
can see they have taken a plieo soir and they're
on the equilibrium. So the movement, even though it's just
(46:35):
a picture, is telling me what pretty much what dancing.
The gentleman has his left arm raised and the lady
with a very very lovely Paul brow on the left
arm is going underneath his left arm, and that shows me,
and that tells me it's an alemance. That tells me
it's a German dance. And this picture was instrumental in
(46:56):
me choosing the very first dance, of course, in collaboration
with what Shonda had written. So that's that's where it starts.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
How fitting that the clues hint that it's a German
dance and that was your inspiration for the wedding dance.
Speaker 13 (47:12):
So I chose a dance that would suggest that it
had been taught in Europe, in Northern Europe, and Tom
liked that idea, and then I chose a dance that
I could. I really felt it should be ceremonial, and
I really felt it should be an act of duty.
And because it was taking place in England, you know,
(47:35):
we do love to put on a show in this country,
don't we, with our royalty. I felt that it should
be light. I didn't feel it should be romantic because
of the nature of it being them only knowing each
other seven hours six seven hours, and it should be
once that started. And I've got that this is very
I know this is very bizarre. But I will tell
(47:55):
you that many years ago, when the Queen Mother died,
my mother and I we went to see her lying
state at the Palace of Westminster, and I can remember
descending the stairs and seeing her coffin and seeing the
four guards standing at the four corners of the coffin.
And I have to say, when I was speaking of this,
(48:19):
if he realize I have.
Speaker 15 (48:20):
Four couples and have them in the middle, so you know,
in terms of imagination, never rule it out as well,
I'm saying where there's is on.
Speaker 6 (48:32):
It is on it.
Speaker 13 (48:35):
And I just thought, oh, you know, because no, no,
go with me, keep getting say with me, stay with me,
stay with me. I just thought, ah, yeah, because actually,
you know, we talk about we talk about Brock being
the splendid century from the mid seventeenth to the late
eighteenth century. But they say the death of Brock is
(48:56):
is with the death of Bark. But anyway, we know
there was dancing a lot of men in the court
of George, that's for sure. Definitely. So I love this
idea that it was very heightened and the people with
four couples either side of them. It was nothing like Bridgeton.
And here's the kernel of all the dancing in Queen Charlotte.
(49:17):
The dances in Bridgeton, we dance to have pleasure. In
Queen Charlotte, I'm afraid we go competitive and we dance
to give pleasure, and we are professional dancers. So that
then allowed me to kind of say, right, those four
couples either side of Charlotte and George should be very good,
(49:42):
very very good indeed, and they should look professional. So
that's where I drew the parallel from the standing protecting,
So they're not just dancing, but they're protecting the duel
of the crown.
Speaker 6 (49:58):
I think that really just goes to show, though, how
much thought is in every single detail. So there's a
moment at the end of the Danbury Ball where he
is bowing to his queen, and it's the deepest, most
(50:20):
reverend most I know. I know it is a moment.
It is such an and it just happens like awfu.
It's not like front and center the way it's framed.
It's like off in its own little moment. It's just
(50:41):
such a I don't have the words for it right now.
It's a beautiful moment. But tell me about that was
that or.
Speaker 13 (50:52):
I love how people think that I was anything to
do with it, because it destroyed me on the day mother.
You know, you know I was gone. I was I
was completely completely because that that what you know. And
(51:15):
as you say the bell the reverence, he knows he's
found his soul mate. So but I think in that
very moment to quote you know, you know, to love
another person is to see the face of God. And
you know, it's a it's a very whatever your proclivities are,
(51:38):
okay for him, and he is a man of God.
It's a godly moment. It's it's a very very spiritual,
it's a very human. It's a very powerful I mean,
it is the greatest, the grandest emotion, and it's and
he's conscious of it, and he can be very expressive
(52:03):
about it privately, and we because of the brilliant filming
of Tom, Jeff Jurr and Leo amazing Leo, we get
to share it. But it's so the integrity of it
and the realization of it and the placement of it
the artist that is Corey Milchrist. That's what that's what
whacks you.
Speaker 6 (52:23):
You know, it's so incredible. You know, there's also Tom
was talking also about how you help the dancers understand
what's that stake when it comes to the Great Experiment.
Can you talk a little bit about how you did that.
Speaker 13 (52:37):
Yeah, it's simple because I'm gay, and I've been in
a room where I couldn't dance with who I wanted
to dance with, and that people would rather I wasn't
even in the room. So again I'm going to say,
you know, it's like I for years and years years
I was you know, I was in my thirties before
I came out, but I remember I was never able
to dance with the person I wanted, you know, to
(52:59):
dance with publicly. And also I remember being in a
room and I would be dancing and people didn't really
want me in the room because they knew I was
So I mean, I've experienced homophobia on a great scale.
Speaker 6 (53:15):
Brimsley, that moment where Hugh Sacks is dancing by himself.
Speaker 13 (53:21):
No, no, you did it to us?
Speaker 6 (53:25):
Why did you do that to us? You and Shonda
Rhymes have messed with our emotions. What in the Hugh
Sacks is just looking off into the distance after he's
doing I don't know what is that dance he's doing,
and tell me about why you chose it, and just
working with him in that solo moment, we get to
see Brimsley, we get to spotlight Brimsley.
Speaker 13 (53:47):
Well, first you have to first and foremos I'm a
huge fan of his hacks from from Benador, for his
par so when they're right working with New York thinking
taken none taken out, he's like love loving that. You
know that this man has entertained me over the years greatly,
and not only that he is a brilliant classical actor,
(54:10):
a wonderful, wonderful classical actor. I mean, of course, of course,
of course that moment, that moment when the court are
dancing on the beautiful floor and it's fabulously lit, and
there we go again, the division the two men dancing
at the top of the hill, filmed brilliantly by Jeff
(54:31):
jer and you know, and lovely Leo, and so obviously
it's memory. He's thinking of the memory of when he
danced with Reynolds himself, you know, and what Hugh did
as part of his process. He came and watched me
teach both the young lads, Sam and Freddy. He watched me.
(54:52):
He didn't say anything, just sat and watched, sat and watched,
and he wanted to know their exact choreography so he
could rep the cakes so that it was very organic.
So and I would dance, and then I would dance
with Hugh and then I would come away. I would
I would come away from the hold. And so when
he he filmed that at ten to four in the
(55:13):
morning and when we were wrapping at four, so he did,
you know, he did a marvelous job. But that was
very painful. That was very, very painful for me to
film because I was at the top of the hill
with them and watching, of course, watching everyone dance beautifully
down below. And of course it's just the memory of
it is just too raw for me.
Speaker 9 (55:33):
You know.
Speaker 13 (55:34):
It's kind of like, yeah, there, I am back in
that club with the windows blacked out. You know, it's
like we can't we can't join you can't join circle.
It's full circle.
Speaker 6 (55:45):
The Danbury Ball is outstanding, I gotta tell you, Bravo.
And then there's this moment where Charles Keir walks up
to Arsama Thomas to take her hand and go on
to the dance floor. It's it's it's all of these is.
Speaker 13 (56:01):
On stage before in Sheffield on Shakespeare we did The
Winter's Tale together, so he understands my language. And so
obviously that's one of the nuanced moments of like I'd say, no, no, no,
you're not going to dance with her. You're going to request,
You're going to ask, You're going to ask for the pleasure,
and you're going to protect and you So we look
at the action and of course he's a brilliant, brilliant,
you know, award nominated actor, and so he's you know,
(56:27):
he's very very interested in finding the very fine balance
in the scene. And yeah, that's again when you work
with actors at that caliber, that's what they want to do.
They don't they don't want to do it as a gig.
They want to work on their craft.
Speaker 6 (56:45):
As you say, right, I'm here, I don't have a
call time. Why not spend the day watching the younger
version of me do their things so that I can
have a magnificent performance. It's just outstanding.
Speaker 13 (56:57):
That was hughge Idea.
Speaker 6 (56:59):
Wow. You mentioned before that you look for clues in
Shonda's writing, especially the unspoken parts of the relationship between
Charlotte and Brimsley. Can you tell us more about how
your affinity for those characters fuels your decision making in
the series.
Speaker 13 (57:15):
Well, those two characters in particular Brimsley, h he chooses duty.
The reason he's starting on his own, he choses queen.
Speaker 6 (57:25):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 13 (57:27):
The purpose in life was to serve his queen and
that the stakes of that were greater than the stakes
of him and Reynolds. So he didn't want to be
in a drama, which is that, as you say, some four,
he wanted to serve the queen and his role he
(57:50):
felt in life was five paces.
Speaker 6 (57:51):
Behind seven states of energy. Is this is something that
you practicing coach dance and actors on performers on.
Speaker 13 (58:03):
Yeah, so seven states of energy. Energy is really focused
where your focus. So one is slow, two is over easy,
three is economic, four is dramatic, five is operatic, six
it is heroic, and seven is catatonic.
Speaker 7 (58:17):
Wow.
Speaker 13 (58:18):
It's all to do with focus, and it's to do
with spheres as well, and circles and yeah, and energy
in relation to changing focus and spheres. So if I
if I'm If I'm your waiter in a restaurant and
I fill your glass and I leave and you don't
even know I've done it, then I've probably been a
(58:40):
very good servant. So that's economic. It's known as economic.
If I come to your table and I say, you know, sorry,
I hope you to mindself, but I really love your hair,
I'm now engaging. I'm now it's about you and me.
It's not just about you. So my focus economic is
on you. If I start then a conversation with you,
(59:00):
it's now dramatic. If I was to then turn to
the next table and say, don't you think he really,
I've just made it. I've just made it operatic. So
I've changed the focus. So if you like, if you
think about the roll of her house, it becomes much wider.
So and of course then you just have to think
(59:22):
of heroic and we see we see plenty of heroic
behavior in Queen Charlotte. Plenty. Bye Queen Charlotte. Yes, she's
a heroin come on. She stands by him, she sure does.
(59:42):
And it's not a duty to a position of power.
You know, she's a heroine because she loves him. It's
about him.
Speaker 6 (59:51):
Jack Murphy.
Speaker 13 (59:52):
Hello, thank you again, No, thank you.
Speaker 6 (59:57):
This was so wonderful. This was so fantastic. Thank you
so much for your time and for all of the
beautiful all of your research. There's so much. I'm also
a fan of post It's we Are, we are one
of the We're cut from the same cloth.
Speaker 13 (01:00:14):
It's okay, dope to get that tea and that dance
in London. Make it happen.
Speaker 6 (01:00:18):
I will, I will, I will. Special thanks again to
executive producer Betsy Beers for taking the time to leave
some gems with us, and another thank you to choreographer
Jack Murphy for treating us to an a lamande through
episode three of Queen Charlotte and Bridgeton story. On our
(01:00:38):
next episode, we're having some pair Brandy with Princess Augusta herself.
Well we we're talking about that scene and more with
the revered actress Michelle Fairley and the charming Corey Millcrease
drops in for a heart to heart about King George.
Speaker 16 (01:00:57):
George comes in, he's announced, and he comes in and
he says, Lord and Lady Danbury, thank you for having me.
It's not you know, it's wonderful to be here. It's
thank you for having me. I'm the King, and I'm
thanking you for welcoming me into your home that technically
I own, but it's immediately going. I'm paying Reverence. You're
(01:01:18):
in charge.
Speaker 6 (01:01:21):
Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Lauren Homan, alex Alja Tyler Klang, and me Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Tarry Harrison. Subscribe to the
podcast anywhere you get your favorite shows. Get the book
I'm a Crispy Turned the Page, Smell the Binding kind
(01:01:41):
of Queen. But you can download it and you can
find Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton story on Netflix. We'll see
you next week. Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with Iheartrain. For more podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(01:02:05):
to your favorite shows.
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Speaker 6 (01:53):
Queen Charlotte. The official podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. Hey, Welcome back to Queen Charlotte,
the official podcast where we delve into the world of
(02:15):
Queen Charlotte and explore its intriguing characters. I'm your host,
Gabby Collins, and on this episode, we've got some special
interviews lined up for you. Joining us is none other
than the esteemed executive producer of Queen Charlotte, Betsy Beers.
She has delivered episodes upon episodes of people finding their
persons and she's helped to transform Thursday Nights in our
(02:39):
recent history, y all, and she does everything but drive
a bus. Later on, we're getting up close and personal
with our dear friend, choreographer Jack Murphy episode three of
Queen Charlotte's when we get to the Danberry Ball, and
y'all know how I feel about the Danbury, So okay,
we're going to do that. We're getting into the Danburry
Ball during our check in with Betsy. We're going to
(03:02):
explore the complex relationships of Queen Charlotte, Lady Danbury, and
Dowager Viscouncist Bridgerton and how these three dimensional characters defy
the gravity of agism. We're going to dive into the
way Queen Charlotte of bridgerton story contributes to a broader
cultural shift in embracing the expensive, triumphant, messy stories of
(03:24):
women who have lived. So let's get into the first
part of our conversation with Betsy, who has been instrumental
in how Queen Charlotte came to fruition. Betsy Beers, thank
you for joining us today. We are really really excited
to talk about Queen Charlotte with you. Great.
Speaker 7 (03:43):
I'm always excited to talk about Queen Charlotte. I mean,
who wouldn't be right?
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Who wouldn't be And it feels like a lot of
people are Yeah. I mean, do you look at what
people say after you put out a baby into the world.
Speaker 7 (03:57):
I Am not somebody who absorbs a lot of that stuff.
I will read sometimes, you know, reviews, because I'm curious,
but I don't really take that much to heart. And
I'm not a because I'm not a social media person.
We always start from the place like I'm just incredibly
proud of it. I'm proud of everything that Shonda did
with this and every single person who worked on it.
(04:18):
So it always goes back to the same sentence, which is,
if I love it, I really hope other people love it,
but nobody can take away.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
From me that I love it. You know, the saying
you know your rapper's favorite rapper. I feel like you
are a producer. You are a producer's producer. Like so
to hear you say that is very that's pretty awesome.
I don't know what to call it, but to know
that you can put something out and it's out there,
you know it's out there. It is what it is,
(04:48):
and Queen Charlotte is a big wow. Though, where does
your story start with working on Queen Charlotte?
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Okay, so my story is very similar to Shanda's story
because Shonda repeated to restory to me as soon as
it happened, So I would say that our stories were
in tandem. Because Seanda had the conversation with Ted regarding
his sadly late mother in law who had suggested to
him that, you know, you should just do a story
about Queen Charlotte because she's so interesting and what an
(05:16):
incredible idea. And I just thought it was terrific and
very early on, because like, who doesn't love Queen Charlotte
And a lot of this has to do with you
just do I mean, the lady's a baller. She's a
total Yeah, just she owns what she owns, she says
what she means. She's funny, she's irreverent, she's deep, and
(05:39):
she's got the most awesome, amazing sense of style, Like
who the hell doesn't love Queen Charlotte. So I think
we started with that, and I think very early on,
and she would remember Seana probably remember better than me
because she's got a better memory than I do. Very
early on we talked about her doing the whole thing
because that was something that she'd actually never done before,
(06:01):
which is write something pretty much from start to finish herself.
And yeah, which in a weird way, it was sort
of this genuinely deep and intense immersion in this world
for a chunk of time while the ideas started to
form in her head. So stuff needs to percolate, you know,
(06:23):
with any writer, I think it's having especially when you're
taking on and creating a context which is an origin
story for Bridgerton, but is also has certain things which
are rooted in historical fact. It's a real tightrope. And
(06:45):
the main thing was that it was coherent as an
origin story for the world we know as Bridgerton from
my perspective as the lucky woman who gets to work
with her. It was a delight for me because we
actually hadn't had the chance to do something like that
in a while because we both are multitasking and I
really love that fomenting process is the best way I
(07:08):
can put it. And I always say like, look, I'm
just here for whatever you need, and I'm here for
nothing if you don't want it, but I'm always here
if you do want it, because I love producing, and
to me, that is anything anybody needs at any point,
with the exception of driving a really big truck, which
I won't do because you don't want to see me do.
(07:28):
I'm not a good idea, but I anything that I
can do to help articulate a vision and then carry
it through, that's the joy of the job.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
I'm so glad you went there because immediately I'm like,
what does that look and sound like? Being in the
trenches fermenting, What does that look and sound like. I'm
sure lots of people are wondering, you know, because we
see you all after it's all done and you know,
put together and talk about it, and you know, it
(08:03):
is fascinating to hear how you work yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
And the funny thing always is there's always drama behind
the drama.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
An easy shoot.
Speaker 7 (08:11):
Does not necessarily make the best show because sometimes when
everybody's when there're no obstacles and it's sunshine, lollipops and
rainbows and everything's great, there's something about really digging into
the complexity of a process which I think emerges to
on the screen in a way. And that is not
(08:34):
saying to the audience out there that there have not
been movies and television shows that were just amazingly great experiences,
because they all are in different ways. It's just different
kinds of obstacles make you reach in and find things
you never would have found or come up with before.
And sometimes the obstacle can be financial, sometimes it can
be logistical. From Gray's Anatomy before the launch of that
(08:57):
show to now, the main thing is that we love
something and we want to watch something, and we would
knock on doors and hand people copies of whatever this
product is because we want people to see it so badly,
and then we'll never do the same thing twice.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
That's hard.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Well, the funny thing is it is, and it's not
because movie directors tend to have conversations and stories and
ideas and themes they come back to again and again
and again. It's not that those things ever change. It's
not that the internal changes. It's the platform for storytelling
or a tone, or a world or and I think
a lot of its world, A lot of it is
(09:41):
I just want to get into a different world because
I'm escaping from all this too, and I've.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
Been living in that world a lot. I want to
know in this world.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, And so it was cool about this for
me was it's a whole different perspective on Bridgerton.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Something you just said makes me think about how we
think about representation in what we watch and listen to.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
One of the great things about having the opportunity to
work with Shonda is she is somebody who never stops
challenging herself. And I feel like I'm cut basically from
the same cloth. There's this part of me that just
wants to do the same thing again. You know, there's
always because it's like easy, and it's a pathake and
it's like lines that I've learned in a play. It's
(10:24):
like and I don't sleep well with that. Life is
really short and there's all this stuff. What did I
learn from this and how can I apply it to this?
And I think are absolutely right in terms of representation,
which is it's not good enough just to sit there
and say, well, goody two shoes, we got that. Wow,
this situation has changed, or this perception has changed. There's
(10:44):
so much more. There's so much more to be done.
There's another conversation. And every single time we go through
another transition period of awareness and acknowledgment, it has to
reflect where we've been, but also where do you want
to go?
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. I see Sheryl Lee, Ralph,
you know, win an award and it's like, yes, I
see you know, the cast of Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte.
I'm like yeah, And then I think my cup is full.
And I see the opening credits to Queen Charlotte on Netflix.
(11:23):
I have not seen them before, that graphic, and it
was emotional for me. I was like, wait a minute,
hold on, because I thought I was fulfilled and that
you know, where we are right now would kind of
just kind of be where we are for a few decades,
you know, like we But those opening credits did something
(11:45):
else to me, and I don't I don't know what
it is, but wow, I don't know, I don't know
what it is. There's a great opening credits, aren't they that? Yeah,
we were so excited.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Scott Collins, who is our is our post genius at Schondela,
we all reacted the same way which this pitch sort
of came in. It was like, there's this amazing understated elegance,
but yet you can kind of fill in the blanks
as you watch it, and it's got this great it's
sort of telling you what's happening, but it's not telling
(12:16):
you what's happening. Look, so much of what the show
is about and also what you're describing, which is, well,
you're not describing exactly, but I'm probably putting words in
your mouth. But is the whole concept of life is
about palace intrigue, right? I mean it's it's to a
large degree, it's what we do with every day in
different ways. And what's great about the opening credits and
(12:36):
the show is like, how do you ever learn the rules?
And who do you want to be in that context? Yeah,
because so much of Queen Charlotte for me, is about
having the agency to change the rules.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
You know, nobody talks about Princess Augusta. I love Nissan
Princess Augusta, right.
Speaker 7 (12:55):
I mean, and yes, I think that there's something amazing
about the relationship between Agatha and Augusta. But it's looking
at the way a woman at this particular period of
time who's also protecting our child. It's the closest thing
to the crown she could get. And she is running things,
but she's running things in this incredibly shadow like way,
(13:19):
and she's constantly pivoting and moving and as opposed to
those you know, old dim dudes who are sitting behind
her are sort of like dusty and egg stained and
don't really know what they're doing. Like, she's sharp and
she's got her shit together and she egg stained and
all sorry and all she wants. All she wants is
(13:40):
a real freaking debate, you know. An Agatha comes in
and it's like there is a debate. I know, this
is getting very theoretical. And I apologize because I'm not
talking about the great actors yet or anything, because everybody's
really good and everyone knows it.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
Okay, well you brought up the actors. They're great.
Speaker 7 (13:58):
Yeah, I'm bouncing up and down to my right now
nobody can see me do it, but I'm doing it
because I'm freaking nerds.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
So that's what I do. Do you do you really
nerd out about casting young Really? Is that one of
your favorite parts of the process. I love casting. I
love casting.
Speaker 7 (14:12):
I started as a really bad actor, so I have
a special place in my heart for actors.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
And also I.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
Believe in a kind and conducive atmosphere for actors to
try to do their best work, which is something which
we have been complimented on as a company, which means a.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Lot to me. But I just love casting.
Speaker 7 (14:33):
I mean, and I could we could hardly wait to
get our hands on this one. So Kelly Valentine Henry,
who did obviously Bridgerton and is a genius and wonderful,
she found some of the most incredible young talents.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Everybody was really good.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
We saw a lot of really good people, but each
one of those three initial youngsters. And by the way,
same with young Brimsley and Reynolds and you know Tom
and Alison Akle who runs great for Shondaland and Shonda
and I like all agreed, they're magical.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
Wow, All right, go refresh your coffee. We've got more
with Betsy Beers right after.
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Speaker 6 (17:57):
Welcome back to Queen Charlotte the Official podcast. We're talking
with executive producer Betsy Beers. Let's get back into it.
So in this episode, it's where we have the Danbury Ball,
and I'm wondering if you could give us a little
bit about two things, the great experiment and what the
(18:18):
goal is. And I would love to talk about Danbury,
Queen Charlotte and Violet as women over fifty.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
First, I will speak to the unique situation of being
an older woman in society and it's certainly one of
the things I do love about Bridgerton, But specifically I
love the way Shonda set the table to really allow
us to dig into both with the backstory of Agatha
(18:55):
and understanding Agatha as an older, independent, free woman and
the contrast with that and Violet, who hasn't explored the
power of the majesty of her age because she lost
a husband at a young age. I think there's a
part of her that died when her husband died, she thinks,
(19:16):
which is why the whole kind of idea of the
garden blooming is so wonderful. And how Seanda came up
with that. I first read that and I laughed until
stuff came out of my nose. I mean, it's the best,
it's but it's it's the best because you're watching a
character who has supported and loved and worried and canny
for the better of her children, who's never ever taken
(19:40):
a moment to pay attention to herself. And it's the
first time in the history of the series. I mean,
all whatever, we've had twelve episodes of Bridgerton and about
to have, you know, another eight, but it's not twelve.
I can't do my math whatever the hell it is,
eighteen sixty sixty that's it. I knew, this is why
I didn't go into mathmat But we've had all of
(20:01):
these episodes in which we've been digging into the issues
of the heart and the ton and the world. And
God bless Shonda Man because Queen Charlotte is so much
about how we process who we are and what we
still can be as we get older. And what's so
(20:24):
great about watching Violet discover and realize that there might
be a world out there, I think is so encouraging
and such a loving gift to so many women who
thought you had to close the door, because it is
still an issue that we are ignored.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
And we are invisible, and.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
So many women in so many walks of life right
now are no matter what the age as we know.
I think it speaks to also us understanding. At the
end of all the comedy and you know, sars and
prayers and the hysterical scenes with the kids, this amazing
scene where you realize that she gave up her children
(21:09):
for her husband, and both Brimsley and her children confront
her with that fact, and that even at a point
that Queen Charlotte has has come to in this magnificence
of her life, she realizes she she would not do
(21:33):
it any other way, probably, but she gets a don't
I think because she I think for me the end
of the series, when the amazing under the bed stuff
is yeah, she's in it to win it, baby, and
she didn't see that she wasn't there for her kids
because it was all about the Kim and then all
(21:55):
about the country. And those are the sacrifices you make,
you know, part of what power and responsibility is.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
But that power and responsibility, that part that's the That
for me is what I love about seeing these three characters,
especially and and Charles Kerer as as Lord Leger and
Cyril and Nui as Herman Danbury. Just all that texture
(22:23):
and backstory. I mean, that's I mean that it's yeah.
I my favorite moment was the Pair Brandy moment.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
But there's this. I have a new favorite moment, the
Pair Brandy moment. We have to just take a moment
because the Pair Brandy moment is so baller, I mean,
because it's like, let's just take all this is what
we do in this situation. You don't know this yet,
this is what we do. It's now get to it.
Drink this Brandy, get to it.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
And get back to normal because I'm not putting up
of this ship.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Right.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
I need a Princess Augusta and I want to be
someone's Princess Augusta. Like for real, that moment is amazing.
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Right, You have been an admirable adversary. Thus far our
battles bring me satisfaction. So this will not do it.
You are not allowed to come here, and so you
may not quit.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
Lady Dan Brees figured out a way in her elder years.
If do you want to call it that, I would
call it middle age, but I'm not supposed to anymore.
I guess she has figured out ways of enjoying the
process of doing what she wants and being to say
what she wants and living her life. But there's something
amazing about her journey back in time that Queen Charlotte
(23:49):
affords us that helps contextualize it. And also this amazingly
weird secret she has from Violet. I mean, yeah, we've
all had weird stuff in our lives, and it's that
incredible scene where you don't know what's going to happen,
and I always start to get all sweaty because it's
(24:10):
like this is going to be so weird, and then
Violet right just they both kind of go okay, got
it moving on, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 6 (24:25):
So I feel like in the way a lot of
what we see teaches us how to resolve conflict. This
show taught us how to be friends in a weird way.
That's beautiful. That's a beautiful thing. Yes, I will take
off the weird way part. That's just me being oh,
that's beautiful thing.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
That I think you're right, I think because it's so
much about all these different friends. I mean, you look
at King George and Reynolds who've been friends since they
were kids, and that Reynolds protects him like a brother,
and what you do, what do you do? And you
know your friend is in need and you can't you're
not allowed to be his friend anymore. You know, it's
(25:07):
Charlotte and Danbury navigating this world and how can you
actually be friends but also make sure that you survive
in the world that you're in. And it's the older
Violin and Danbury sorting their stuff out in this incredibly
elegant and mature way. It's Old Brimsley and Queen Charlotte.
(25:29):
You know, it's so much of this is about when
you invest in the garden that is a friendship. How
do you make the flowers keep growing because their go
through periods where they don't. And there's amazing moments where
Lady Danbury, young Lady Danbury, and the moments where it's
is she compromising her friend by using her as a
(25:52):
mouthpiece for the great experiment. Oh, she bargains with Augusta.
She's very careful about it, and she does the right thing.
But she has a responsibility to all those people show
up at her house and they say, what's she going
to do about this? They're going to take our they're
going to take our titles away.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
What you're going to do?
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Like this is no good? And she figures out away
without compromising Queen Charlotte. But she figures out away, and
I think being pretty honest with Queen Charlotte, who's a
little not conscious of a lot of this stuff throughout
the whole thing. So so I think it's so interesting
the way Danbury has to drive the train, do a dance,
but drive the train because Charlotte's catching up to speed
(26:35):
and Danbury's like, you know, Charlotte's in the train behind going.
I don't understand what all the importance is. And every
single time right because she doesn't understand to roll in
this from the beginning, How could she. She didn't have
the situation when she was in Germany, there were none
of these issues. She showed up at this place and
she's living alone in a house with no husband, a
(26:57):
weird dude who's following her around all day long, and
she's like twelve. Right, And you have this woman who's
a little older than she is but has lived the
life of three women. She's had four hundred children, she's
been with a man that essentially was an arranged marriage,
and there are two different points of their lives, but
(27:20):
it's like two different errors just collide.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Right.
Speaker 7 (27:24):
What a lot of responsibility for Danberry and what an
incredible introduction to a consummate politician. Oh wow, right, yeah wow.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I saw an old ted talk that Arsena Thomas, who
plays young Lady Danberry, did about five or six years ago,
and she ended it with saying, strong women are made.
And I'm like, oh, man, Like, did she even know
she was going to play that role? No, of course
she didn't, But man, Danberry was made. She's made. She's made.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
But at every step of the way, she's conscious. Yeah,
she's conscious. And it's like I think with Charlotte. Charlotte's
consciousness evolves in a different kind of way, which is
what's also great about watching those two characters, and as
they become friends and as they become allies, but it's
an amazing moment where like Queen Charlotte shows up at
(28:21):
her house and goes, I guess what I'm living here now?
And she understands none any implications of this, and somehow
or another, Danbury has to be responsive to that and
responsive to her friend, but also figure out a way
to protect her friend what she doesn't understand, but also
(28:43):
protect herself.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
And that's really hard. Is there anything about the Danberry
ball which you have known? The Danburry Ball was going
to be a key role in explaining the great experience
or give theah. I knew that.
Speaker 7 (29:01):
I knew that it had to be because it's such
a huge plot point. But it's the first time Charlotte
starts to understand her position, you know, it's the first
time that when Danbury comes and explains, I mean, they're two.
One of the funniest is, of course, when Danbury explains
how to have sex. That's a different role.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
But and then later on Queen Charlotte had the nerve
to tell her children I drew you pictures like girl,
and then like, guess who drew them first? Bit?
Speaker 7 (29:28):
Just credit credit the author. She probably pulled out the
old pictures.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Right, Yeah, Grimsley grabbed those pictures exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
No, I think the Danburry Ball is this incredibly pivotal
moment because the only way that they'll be accepted in
society is if a miracle happens, and the miracle is
nobody can deny it, if the King and the Queen
show up right. And this is a question for you, actually,
how can conscious do you think Charlotte is when she
(30:04):
asked George of how momentous this thing is.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked I. Originally, when I
the first couple times I watched it, I said, Okay,
Charlotte used her sexuality, she learned a little something something,
and she had some pillow talk. Then I started to
think to myself, they had a conversation, they together decided
(30:31):
and master planned that they would do this together. I
do think Charlotte at that point knew what it was
and that George young George was on board.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
I always look at Charlotte and go like, what level
of awareness does she have of the magnitude of it.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
It's the moment she holds her stomach in front of
the mirror for me, right before she goes to see
George and I love those little quick five second shots
that you know, after seventeen times watching it, you're like, oh,
that is like five hours worth of context right there.
You know, she's she's thinking no longer just thinking of herself.
(31:10):
She's thinking of the legacy. And that's why I really
love Young Charlotte too, because she's just seventeen, and that
moment in the garden when she sees young George decompensating,
like she makes a choice in that moment, I think
as privileged and maybe a little ignorant to her privilege
that she is. She was really cognizant of what the
assignment was. That's why she's cognizant with the assignment is.
(31:33):
But for me, what's interesting is she doesn't know what
it means to be a leader and what that implies.
Speaker 7 (31:40):
And for me, what that is is the oranges, because
she has somebody. Oh, she says, I'm gonna get an orange,
and a man comes over and gets the orange. You know,
he gets the orange, gives her the orange, and she's like, okay,
and then she says, from now on, I want to
pick my own oranges. And everybody looks a bit of
gas and Brimsey's says okay, and then the next time
(32:01):
she's there, she's.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Like, where did everybody go? It's like, will you let
them go? Ma'am.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
It's each of those moments which are little building blocks
that you and that to me was and I said,
I think when I first read it, I just said,
this is the most incredibly beautiful example of the effect
one person has on thousands of people. So and that
(32:31):
each step of the way, I feel like, there's this
little there's this little you know, it's like an aperture.
And for her, the aperture just keeps opening, and it
keeps opening, it keeps opening. In the middle of this
it's it's an aperture about England and society and this
woman who got dumped in a place that she didn't know,
(32:52):
and she doesn't know and she doesn't understand the food,
and everybody dresses terribly in the whole nine yards and
there's that aperture, and then in the middle of it
is George, who she thinks is one thing and turns
out to be another. But it doesn't matter because as
the aperture opens, she realizes this is who she is.
It's literally, I would rather have half a man and
(33:16):
half a king.
Speaker 12 (33:18):
If what we have is half, then we shall make
it the very best half. I love you, tisn'teno. I
am your queen, and as long as I am so,
I shall never leave your side. You are king, You
will be king, Your children will rule together. We are whole.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
I think she evolves so incredibly to that place, and
then as a woman who literally goes in and refuses
to let him torture himself anymore, which she's doing because
he loves her and he doesn't want her to have
to suffer. She's and she gets her agency, gets her power.
(34:00):
A Gusta looks at her in episode six, I think,
and says and pretty much goes, it's all yours now,
oh man, yeah, And I'm.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Like, whoa, this show is so good, right, That's what
I mean.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
It's like it's like it's you're just peeling the onion.
You keep killing the you know, I didn't know there
was another onion in the onion, right. But that's the thing,
you know, And not to stay at the obvious, but
that's the thing about Shonda and Shonda's writing and the
way Shonda's brain works, and how she never loses sight
of the fact that her characters and the worlds in
(34:36):
which she immerses us are always current and relevant. It
doesn't matter what the time period is, It doesn't matter
what the context is. Be at a hospital, be at Washington, Yeah,
be it Georgia and England. It's we're sitting and having
this conversation because all of those things actively speak to us,
and they're wearing beautiful costumes designed by the incredibly talented
(34:58):
Linn Powow, and they're being direct beautifully by Tom Verica.
But the reason we're having the conversations because all of
these things are still relevant right now, and you could
change the time period and you could be having exactly
the same conversations about all of it. Because great experiment.
(35:18):
Sure shit isn't over, she says, as a gigantic understatement,
And you know, what is your responsibility and duty as
a leader versus your responsibility and duty as a mother
or a wife, or a husband or devout friend like
Grimsley or devout friendly Brimsley and a man who gave
(35:41):
up his entire personal life because of his love and duty.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
For a queen. If you watch Queen Charlotte, if you
watch it, you will leave with a life lesson or two.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
And I'll tell you something, and if you watch it again,
you'll find even more because it's a I think the
funny thing about watching things and binging is it's great
because what you absorb is the top layer and deep deep.
People smarter people than I probably get multiple layers. But
keep if you keep going back and you keep watching it,
(36:18):
and it can be like you said, it can be
a moment, it can be episodes, it can be you
see different things. And like I said, you said, what
is the thing that I love most about my job
or what am I good at? I love the fact
that I can see so many points of view and
that it's one of the reasons I had to stop
being an actor because a director pulled me aside and said,
(36:39):
you're not advocating for your character, and I said, but
there's so many characters and they all have really good points,
which is why I was a really shitty actor. But
it makes me a really good producer because and a
good viewer, because there's something to everyone's point of view
in this and that allows allows you to look at
(37:00):
the world to me with a sense of excitement and
some generosity and curiosity and also impatience, which is I
think where.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
We should be. You are amazing. We can't thank you
enough for your time. Wow now and thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (37:14):
Thank you so much for letting me take a trip
to one of my favorite places in the world.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
That's the cue. But don't go too far. We've got
Jack Murphy, the choreographer coming up right after this break.
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Speaker 6 (40:08):
All right, everyone, to close out this episode, we are
honored to have a true maestrow of movement and artistry
joining us. Jack Murphy, choreographer of Queen Charlotte A Bridgerton story. Welcome, Welcome, welcome, well, hello,
I've been trying to withhold all of my excitement enjoy
of getting to spend some time with you so that
(40:29):
I can capture it for the recording. But I really
I'm really really happy to see you and to just
hear what you've been up to and just laugh with you.
Speaker 13 (40:39):
So how have you been, Gabriella. It's so kind of you,
because do you know I had never done a podcast
until you invited me to do one with you for
Bridgeton Season one, and it was it was an event
for me.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
Are you experiencing any full circle moments this time around
or in the years since yarding Bridgerton while working on
Queen Charlotte, Because Queen Charlotte is so much about that
looking back and looking forward and connecting dots in.
Speaker 13 (41:11):
Time comes out so much in the process now because
of Bridgeton and the process of Bridgeton and the process
of Bridgeton and time being in the early nineteenth century,
but using a style from the twentieth and twenty first
century to fuse the dancing, to give it a modernity
and interesting that full circle, however you interpret that, I
(41:36):
use the same kind of idea by with Queen Charlotte,
using the experience of playing with time, I went back
to Baroque, but then jumped forward to ballet, so obviously
using lots of fusion again as that's, as you know,
one of my favorite works.
Speaker 14 (41:55):
Yes, yes, but in terms of this full circles like
it's just it's no project I have no experience of
anything like Bridgeton and now Queen Charlotte, so everything is
of a time distortion.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
I'm so curious about how you incorporated the costume and
the flow of all those silhouettes in your choreography, and
like how you take that into your process as a creator.
Speaker 13 (42:29):
I'm very particular because I think if you were a costume,
you're relying on it to do the work for you.
You must become one with the costume, and therefoot becomes
your clothes, because they were their clothes. They weren't their costumes. Yes,
of course, deeply you know fine, you know materials, but
so I know what it is to live and to
be and to move in those in the cut. You
(42:50):
know the coture of those gowns and those fabrics. So
the process obviously with dramas called training with Jane and
with Diana taking that onto the dance floor, with Diana
wearing it and knowing that it had to be part
of me. So but particularly on Queen Charlotte, there was
(43:11):
an extraordinary process because actually I was invited by the
costume team to go and teach them a dance that
the actors would do, so they would get a sense
of what the actors were required. And this is the
first time ever, ever thirty five years, well five years,
(43:35):
I was an actor of thirty years. And I had
the most glorious afternoon teaching the custume department of Queen
Charlotte a country dance unbeknownst to them that would appear
in Queen Charlotte because I had just that week choreographed it.
And it's a dance that takes place at the Danver Ball.
Speaker 14 (44:02):
Royal Highness, Princess Augusta.
Speaker 9 (44:10):
Lord Denbury, Lady, I am on your own.
Speaker 13 (44:14):
The honor is ours, the wonderful Danbury Ball, the conception
of the Danburry War right, so Lynn shared the designs
of obviously the most extraordinary in teress for the marriage.
(44:36):
For the wedding, I turned blue. So yeah, it was.
It was challenging, it was frightening, it was illuminating. It
was completely and utterly by the end of it, absolutely
(44:58):
flying as one. And by at the end, I was
choreographing dances with trains that would normally have me getting
on an airline, you know, going somewhere because the extraordinary.
But then the team and I we would talk regularly
and then we were on set for the we're on
set for the Danburrie. We're talking about the Kings Ball.
So there was a communication and a dialogue and a
(45:21):
narrative that was so healthy and just bread confidence.
Speaker 6 (45:27):
Great, right, it seems. So it was non stop collaboration
on because yeah, those dresses, those gowns are huge, those
suits are so stately, so beautiful. Fact it also looks
heavier for the like, oh, for the scenes when they're
(45:47):
all younger.
Speaker 13 (45:48):
So, contrary to pop belief, I have never worn one
of those dresses. I've certainly worn the coats. But you know,
but maybe I have to try one day just to
kind of like I have a little more empathy with
my fabulous actresses. So my process, as you know, starts
with research, and its research starts with the script, and
(46:10):
obviously it tells me and so I, you know, I
start looking at my pictures. My goodness, looking at the
shapes in my pictures. Wow, here we have and I
know it's a court ball because of the finesse. And
I can see that they're on the rise. So I
can see they have taken a plieo soir and they're
on the equilibrium. So the movement, even though it's just
(46:35):
a picture, is telling me what pretty much what dancing.
The gentleman has his left arm raised and the lady
with a very very lovely Paul brow on the left
arm is going underneath his left arm, and that shows me,
and that tells me it's an alemance. That tells me
it's a German dance. And this picture was instrumental in
(46:56):
me choosing the very first dance, of course, in collaboration
with what Shonda had written. So that's that's where it starts.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
How fitting that the clues hint that it's a German
dance and that was your inspiration for the wedding dance.
Speaker 13 (47:12):
So I chose a dance that would suggest that it
had been taught in Europe, in Northern Europe, and Tom
liked that idea, and then I chose a dance that
I could. I really felt it should be ceremonial, and
I really felt it should be an act of duty.
And because it was taking place in England, you know,
(47:35):
we do love to put on a show in this country,
don't we, with our royalty. I felt that it should
be light. I didn't feel it should be romantic because
of the nature of it being them only knowing each
other seven hours six seven hours, and it should be
once that started. And I've got that this is very
I know this is very bizarre. But I will tell
(47:55):
you that many years ago, when the Queen Mother died,
my mother and I we went to see her lying
state at the Palace of Westminster, and I can remember
descending the stairs and seeing her coffin and seeing the
four guards standing at the four corners of the coffin.
And I have to say, when I was speaking of this,
(48:19):
if he realize I have.
Speaker 15 (48:20):
Four couples and have them in the middle, so you know,
in terms of imagination, never rule it out as well,
I'm saying where there's is on.
Speaker 6 (48:32):
It is on it.
Speaker 13 (48:35):
And I just thought, oh, you know, because no, no,
go with me, keep getting say with me, stay with me,
stay with me. I just thought, ah, yeah, because actually,
you know, we talk about we talk about Brock being
the splendid century from the mid seventeenth to the late
eighteenth century. But they say the death of Brock is
(48:56):
is with the death of Bark. But anyway, we know
there was dancing a lot of men in the court
of George, that's for sure. Definitely. So I love this
idea that it was very heightened and the people with
four couples either side of them. It was nothing like Bridgeton.
And here's the kernel of all the dancing in Queen Charlotte.
(49:17):
The dances in Bridgeton, we dance to have pleasure. In
Queen Charlotte, I'm afraid we go competitive and we dance
to give pleasure, and we are professional dancers. So that
then allowed me to kind of say, right, those four
couples either side of Charlotte and George should be very good,
(49:42):
very very good indeed, and they should look professional. So
that's where I drew the parallel from the standing protecting,
So they're not just dancing, but they're protecting the duel
of the crown.
Speaker 6 (49:58):
I think that really just goes to show, though, how
much thought is in every single detail. So there's a
moment at the end of the Danbury Ball where he
is bowing to his queen, and it's the deepest, most
(50:20):
reverend most I know. I know it is a moment.
It is such an and it just happens like awfu.
It's not like front and center the way it's framed.
It's like off in its own little moment. It's just
(50:41):
such a I don't have the words for it right now.
It's a beautiful moment. But tell me about that was
that or.
Speaker 13 (50:52):
I love how people think that I was anything to
do with it, because it destroyed me on the day mother.
You know, you know I was gone. I was I
was completely completely because that that what you know. And
(51:15):
as you say the bell the reverence, he knows he's
found his soul mate. So but I think in that
very moment to quote you know, you know, to love
another person is to see the face of God. And
you know, it's a it's a very whatever your proclivities are,
(51:38):
okay for him, and he is a man of God.
It's a godly moment. It's it's a very very spiritual,
it's a very human. It's a very powerful I mean,
it is the greatest, the grandest emotion, and it's and
he's conscious of it, and he can be very expressive
(52:03):
about it privately, and we because of the brilliant filming
of Tom, Jeff Jurr and Leo amazing Leo, we get
to share it. But it's so the integrity of it
and the realization of it and the placement of it
the artist that is Corey Milchrist. That's what that's what
whacks you.
Speaker 6 (52:23):
You know, it's so incredible. You know, there's also Tom
was talking also about how you help the dancers understand
what's that stake when it comes to the Great Experiment.
Can you talk a little bit about how you did that.
Speaker 13 (52:37):
Yeah, it's simple because I'm gay, and I've been in
a room where I couldn't dance with who I wanted
to dance with, and that people would rather I wasn't
even in the room. So again I'm going to say,
you know, it's like I for years and years years
I was you know, I was in my thirties before
I came out, but I remember I was never able
to dance with the person I wanted, you know, to
(52:59):
dance with publicly. And also I remember being in a
room and I would be dancing and people didn't really
want me in the room because they knew I was
So I mean, I've experienced homophobia on a great scale.
Speaker 6 (53:15):
Brimsley, that moment where Hugh Sacks is dancing by himself.
Speaker 13 (53:21):
No, no, you did it to us?
Speaker 6 (53:25):
Why did you do that to us? You and Shonda
Rhymes have messed with our emotions. What in the Hugh
Sacks is just looking off into the distance after he's
doing I don't know what is that dance he's doing,
and tell me about why you chose it, and just
working with him in that solo moment, we get to
see Brimsley, we get to spotlight Brimsley.
Speaker 13 (53:47):
Well, first you have to first and foremos I'm a
huge fan of his hacks from from Benador, for his
par so when they're right working with New York thinking
taken none taken out, he's like love loving that. You
know that this man has entertained me over the years greatly,
and not only that he is a brilliant classical actor,
(54:10):
a wonderful, wonderful classical actor. I mean, of course, of course,
of course that moment, that moment when the court are
dancing on the beautiful floor and it's fabulously lit, and
there we go again, the division the two men dancing
at the top of the hill, filmed brilliantly by Jeff
(54:31):
jer and you know, and lovely Leo, and so obviously
it's memory. He's thinking of the memory of when he
danced with Reynolds himself, you know, and what Hugh did
as part of his process. He came and watched me
teach both the young lads, Sam and Freddy. He watched me.
(54:52):
He didn't say anything, just sat and watched, sat and watched,
and he wanted to know their exact choreography so he
could rep the cakes so that it was very organic.
So and I would dance, and then I would dance
with Hugh and then I would come away. I would
I would come away from the hold. And so when
he he filmed that at ten to four in the
(55:13):
morning and when we were wrapping at four, so he did,
you know, he did a marvelous job. But that was
very painful. That was very, very painful for me to
film because I was at the top of the hill
with them and watching, of course, watching everyone dance beautifully
down below. And of course it's just the memory of
it is just too raw for me.
Speaker 9 (55:33):
You know.
Speaker 13 (55:34):
It's kind of like, yeah, there, I am back in
that club with the windows blacked out. You know, it's
like we can't we can't join you can't join circle.
It's full circle.
Speaker 6 (55:45):
The Danbury Ball is outstanding, I gotta tell you, Bravo.
And then there's this moment where Charles Keir walks up
to Arsama Thomas to take her hand and go on
to the dance floor. It's it's it's all of these is.
Speaker 13 (56:01):
On stage before in Sheffield on Shakespeare we did The
Winter's Tale together, so he understands my language. And so
obviously that's one of the nuanced moments of like I'd say, no, no, no,
you're not going to dance with her. You're going to request,
You're going to ask, You're going to ask for the pleasure,
and you're going to protect and you So we look
at the action and of course he's a brilliant, brilliant,
you know, award nominated actor, and so he's you know,
(56:27):
he's very very interested in finding the very fine balance
in the scene. And yeah, that's again when you work
with actors at that caliber, that's what they want to do.
They don't they don't want to do it as a gig.
They want to work on their craft.
Speaker 6 (56:45):
As you say, right, I'm here, I don't have a
call time. Why not spend the day watching the younger
version of me do their things so that I can
have a magnificent performance. It's just outstanding.
Speaker 13 (56:57):
That was hughge Idea.
Speaker 6 (56:59):
Wow. You mentioned before that you look for clues in
Shonda's writing, especially the unspoken parts of the relationship between
Charlotte and Brimsley. Can you tell us more about how
your affinity for those characters fuels your decision making in
the series.
Speaker 13 (57:15):
Well, those two characters in particular Brimsley, h he chooses duty.
The reason he's starting on his own, he choses queen.
Speaker 6 (57:25):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 13 (57:27):
The purpose in life was to serve his queen and
that the stakes of that were greater than the stakes
of him and Reynolds. So he didn't want to be
in a drama, which is that, as you say, some four,
he wanted to serve the queen and his role he
(57:50):
felt in life was five paces.
Speaker 6 (57:51):
Behind seven states of energy. Is this is something that
you practicing coach dance and actors on performers on.
Speaker 13 (58:03):
Yeah, so seven states of energy. Energy is really focused
where your focus. So one is slow, two is over easy,
three is economic, four is dramatic, five is operatic, six
it is heroic, and seven is catatonic.
Speaker 7 (58:17):
Wow.
Speaker 13 (58:18):
It's all to do with focus, and it's to do
with spheres as well, and circles and yeah, and energy
in relation to changing focus and spheres. So if I
if I'm If I'm your waiter in a restaurant and
I fill your glass and I leave and you don't
even know I've done it, then I've probably been a
(58:40):
very good servant. So that's economic. It's known as economic.
If I come to your table and I say, you know, sorry,
I hope you to mindself, but I really love your hair,
I'm now engaging. I'm now it's about you and me.
It's not just about you. So my focus economic is
on you. If I start then a conversation with you,
(59:00):
it's now dramatic. If I was to then turn to
the next table and say, don't you think he really,
I've just made it. I've just made it operatic. So
I've changed the focus. So if you like, if you
think about the roll of her house, it becomes much wider.
So and of course then you just have to think
(59:22):
of heroic and we see we see plenty of heroic
behavior in Queen Charlotte. Plenty. Bye Queen Charlotte. Yes, she's
a heroin come on. She stands by him, she sure does.
(59:42):
And it's not a duty to a position of power.
You know, she's a heroine because she loves him. It's
about him.
Speaker 6 (59:51):
Jack Murphy.
Speaker 13 (59:52):
Hello, thank you again, No, thank you.
Speaker 6 (59:57):
This was so wonderful. This was so fantastic. Thank you
so much for your time and for all of the
beautiful all of your research. There's so much. I'm also
a fan of post It's we Are, we are one
of the We're cut from the same cloth.
Speaker 13 (01:00:14):
It's okay, dope to get that tea and that dance
in London. Make it happen.
Speaker 6 (01:00:18):
I will, I will, I will. Special thanks again to
executive producer Betsy Beers for taking the time to leave
some gems with us, and another thank you to choreographer
Jack Murphy for treating us to an a lamande through
episode three of Queen Charlotte and Bridgeton story. On our
(01:00:38):
next episode, we're having some pair Brandy with Princess Augusta herself.
Well we we're talking about that scene and more with
the revered actress Michelle Fairley and the charming Corey Millcrease
drops in for a heart to heart about King George.
Speaker 16 (01:00:57):
George comes in, he's announced, and he comes in and
he says, Lord and Lady Danbury, thank you for having me.
It's not you know, it's wonderful to be here. It's
thank you for having me. I'm the King, and I'm
thanking you for welcoming me into your home that technically
I own, but it's immediately going. I'm paying Reverence. You're
(01:01:18):
in charge.
Speaker 6 (01:01:21):
Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Lauren Homan, alex Alja Tyler Klang, and me Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Tarry Harrison. Subscribe to the
podcast anywhere you get your favorite shows. Get the book
I'm a Crispy Turned the Page, Smell the Binding kind
(01:01:41):
of Queen. But you can download it and you can
find Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton story on Netflix. We'll see
you next week. Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with Iheartrain. For more podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(01:02:05):
to your favorite shows.
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