May 30, 2023 • 35 mins
When an unsuspecting Christian group called Overcomers Through Christ meets Cecilia Steyn, a 42nd generation witch fleeing Satanism, they welcome her with open arms. Their leader, Ria Grunewald, strives to save Cecilia’s soul from the devil. But when Cecilia begins changing the group’s agenda – to fight Satan instead of praising the Lord – who will she alienate, and who will she indoctrinate? With her newfound influence, the fledgling cult leader makes her first moves toward intimidation… and violence.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains
material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion ADVISEDZA.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Found with it's August seventeenth, two thousand and seven. Krugersdorp,
South Africa, a mining town outside at Johannesburg. A faded,
green and yellow housing complex called Casana Flats sits just
across from the local hospital, a building that has seen
(00:42):
better days. Inside one of the modest one bedroom apartments,
a group of ten faithful Christian worshippers has gathered in
preparation for war. It is the home of Cecilia Stein,
and the faithful have come to pray over her. You see,
Cecilia is a witch, a forty second generation witch to
(01:03):
be exact. She claims she was once married to Satan himself.
She even has a marriage certificate to prove it. But
these days, Cecilia says she's left Satanism behind. She now
seeks salvation from God's love. The members of this congregation,
which is devoted to fighting evil in all its forms,
(01:26):
call their group overcomers, Sir Christ. Their leader is a kind, generous,
fifty year old woman named Ria Gruneval. Tonight, she leads
her followers in songs and fervent prayer to cast the
devil out of this pale, thirty year old woman. They
will attempt to divorce Cecilia from her marriage to Satan
(01:46):
in hopes that these frequent possessions will cease. These believers
call this gathering a high Knight. Rihea gives the group
strict orders to keep a close watch on Cecilia, who
sits on her bed, dead still, like a ticking time bomb.
(02:06):
Without warning, Cecilia bolts upright in bed. She spasms, her face, contorts,
her body jerks. She twists in her bed, convulsing violently.
She's possessed by a demon, or perhaps the devil himself.
What you're hearing now is a live recording of an
actual high Night possession. As the young woman thrashes about,
(02:28):
her body bends and gnarls, her voice screams, and her
soul cries out from.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Deep inside her.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Rhea and her followers exchange glances. They are in a
full on battle for this woman's soul. Cecilia's body whips
and snaps around in bed. It looks as if she's
being hit by invisible blows. The group understands these to
be attacks via astral projection. Cecilia is like a living
voodoo doll. The congregation fights even harder. They pray with conviction.
(03:06):
Rhea and her congregation are up against a spiritual wall.
They focus their energies on Cecilia, laying hands on her,
and blood bubbles from Cecilia's mouth. This doesn't stop them.
The believers implore the demons to release Cecilia from their grasp,
and then, just as suddenly as the attack began, Cecilia's
(03:28):
body goes limp. She collapses against the bed. She's zerily calm.
The tiny apartment is now hot, stuffy, the air still agitated,
the congregation size. They begin to whisper thanks pe to God.
(03:48):
In the battle for Cecilia's soul, They've won. They beat
the devil this time. My name is Kurt Kupachek. I'm
a filmmaker and storyteller, and this is the true story
(04:10):
behind the wrath of Cecilia Stein.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She's actually an evil person.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
She was born and bred with the thought that she
has the power to kill.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
In the world of murderous cults. If Charles Manson is King,
Cecilia Stein is Queen.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
She conditioned them to be monsters.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Why step someone sixty five times in the chaste?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Motivated by power, greed, and revenge, Cecilia's cult, called Electus
Perdeis killed eleven people in her name and left the
lives of countless others in shambles. If you want to
get out of this, we will kill you.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
This feels like everybody around you is giving murdered.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
She is absolutely evil.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
She is the devil.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
She would do anything to get her way.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Foul of humans and iHeart podcasts. This is Queen Havoc
and her murder Cult Episode one Queen in the making.
(05:26):
After a couple of years researching, I was eager to
be on the ground to understand more about this devastating
case that gryptination and to investigate some of the gaps
in the story I'd read so much about. I wanted
to talk with people, look into the eyes of those
who lived through it, to hear first hand accounts from
both the survivors and the killers, who, in this bizarre instance,
(05:48):
are sometimes one and the same. What really hooked me
about this story was the detectives, the lengths to which
they had to go in order to end Cecilia Stein's
reign of murder in Mayhem eve at least a sense
of justice for the victims and their families. The detectives
were everyday heroes, but not in some way that's easy
(06:09):
to define. In fact, some of them were dirty, which
is another part of this story. This is why we
wanted to speak with them and with everyone we could,
anyone who could tell us about this case and all
the horrors that were carried out in a holy name.
So producer Jennifer Tolkeeney and I traveled from Los Angeles
to South Africa, where this whole saga began.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
Tomboy International Airport in Jahannesburg local time twenty eight minutes
by six o'clock, South Africa's standard time, and we'll be
talking you for the next few minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Of Captain's halfway around the world. We traveled to meet
with detectives, journalists, psychologists, and we even got to speak
with some of the cult members themselves, the ones who
managed to stay alive, all of whom were forever changed
by Cecilia Stein. On the trail in South Africa, what
we encountered was much more tragic than what we'd imagined
at the start. In short, The story changed us too.
(07:04):
He told me about how he killed with that act.
In speaking with locals and investigating this story, we actually
shook things up a bit. We ended up unearthing things
that were meant to remain buried. We were even nearly
entangled in a police corruption investigation. This story is still
alive and it's still seeking justice. The Kruger's doorf cult killings,
(07:28):
as they're known in South Africa, were a grizzly chain
of events. To make sense of the near senseless brutality,
Let's get to know Kruger's Door, the small suburb about
forty minutes west the Johannesburg where the murders occurred, one
that is still tormented by these dark events. Eleven different
(07:49):
languages are spoken across South Africa. Most people in Krugersdorp
speak Afrikaans as their first language. To understand some of
the cultural context of South Africa, will turn to academics
and scholars, ones who were there at the time, like
doctor Nicki Falkoff.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
These towns on the outskirts of Jannisburg, they feel like
places that time forgot.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Almost Nikki has spent her life studying South African culture
post apartheid, and has written extensively on the topic. Driving
through the Greater Johannes Bergeria and Kruger Store, you see
these high walls and imposing iron gates. They're everywhere. Nearly
every community is gated, sealed, closed off. It is a
(08:35):
rather perfect metaphor for the themes that emerge while we
reported on this story. For instance, when we choose walls
to protect ourselves, we must also consider who we choose
to let in and why these walls, the very things
we think are protecting us, can actually leave us vulnerable.
Do they provide protection or imprisonment? On the surface, the
(09:01):
confines of a cult make you feel like you belong,
That's why they're appealing. But after a while they begin
to serve as a reminder that once you're in, there's
no getting out. And finally, the biggest question in my mind,
what drives our inherent human need to belong to something?
(09:22):
And how do our relationships serve our efforts towards satiating
this primal desire.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
We have some hijacking hotspots we used to avoid. Yeah,
so see traffic light at night? I wait like this
because if someone approaches my window right now, I've got
that much space to head forward and they have to run.
That's really good and you put your hand on the hooter.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yes, that's me and my producing partner Jennifer Tikini driving
with Jermaine Kreher, who helped us now the Gate around
South Africa during our time there.
Speaker 10 (10:02):
I'm a South African journalist working across a variety of
beats and mediums.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Jermaine quickly became an integral part of our team as
she grew up very close to Kruger's door.
Speaker 10 (10:13):
I am a west Rand baby, born and bridge raised
on the Westrand, which is just a stone throwaway from Krugersdorp.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
The west Rand is a district that implies west of
Johannesburg or Joeburg as the locals call it. Krugersdorp is
in this district as well.
Speaker 9 (10:29):
We have very high levels of poverty across South Africa.
Krugelzorb specifically has very high levels of white poverty, which
makes it quite different from a lot of the other
regions in the same breath. Though it also has incredibly
rich and affluent areas, so it's got this absolute disparity
this contrast, and I think that probably had a big
(10:52):
influence in the case, specifically if you look at the
economic crime elements of it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We were very fortunate to have Jermaine's guidance, insight, and
logistical support. We also learned from the many people we
spoke to that South Africa is a fervently religious place.
Close to eighty percent of people identify as Christians nationwide,
many of them in Pentecostal or evangelical traditions. There are,
of course, and sexral traditions as well, but only five
(11:23):
percent identified with these belief systems in the general household survey.
And just to be clear, we are dealing with white
communities here, both the criminals and the victims in the US.
This was many people's first question when hearing about this case.
That being said, we can't talk about post apartheid South
Africa without acknowledging the racial dynamics underlying every aspect of
(11:45):
life there. The segregation of apartheid. It trained white South
Africans to live in a perpetual state of fear. They
feared to imagine black violence due to the centuries of
violent oppression, which led to these modern terrified white people
hiding by towering white walls. Here's Niki fealkoff again.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
There was this manifestation of a kind of really hysterical
Christian paranoia, particularly among white South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And there was a measurable uptick in communities of faith
leading up to South Africa's own version of Satanic panic
in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Without a doubt, I think that structural conditions that are
one hundred percent related to apartheid but have been exacerbated
ever since, are the main driver of these kinds of behaviors.
It's not that Satan has an extra special foothold in
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
There are a number of theories as to what drove
the fervor, but it grew became ingrained within South African culture,
while the impending end of apartheid sowed the seeds of
a broader moral panic in fast sections of the white population,
and over time, these small, tight knit congregations like the
(12:58):
Overcomers through Christ became commonplace. There's someone else I'd like
you to meet, someone that is very important to this
story and a person I have come to respect and
admire greatly.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Suzeit knitze I started with the police in nineteen ninety
started at the Detective Service at our head office detectives.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Whosec. Canotse is a third generation detective, mother of two,
and served in the South African Police Service as a
satanic panic gain steam in the nineties. She was also
one of the detectives who worked on the Kruger's Dor
of Colt killings, and she's the person who first introduced
me to this case when I met her in Los
Angeles in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
From there, in ninety two, I started with a unit
called the Occult Related Crimes.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yep, you heard that right, that's the Occult Related Crimes
Unit or ORKUP, an entire unit of the police force
dedicated to investigating criminal activity with potential links to occult
rituals and practices, witchcraft, the supernatural matters of the spirit.
It was the only unit of its kind in the world,
(14:10):
formed in response to the sheer number of gruesome murders
and misdeeds being reported. Pretty wild, right.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
We dealt with all kinds of occult related crimes, being Satanism,
being well, anything that had to do with the ocults.
Those kind of crimes I handled well myself and pinol Yonka.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
She mentions doctor Colonel Cobis Jonker. He was the founder
and head of Orku, an author of a book called
Satanism in South Africa that outlines what kinds of crimes
they handled, those deemed occult in nature. He told us
about a couple of particularly macob cases he handled. Some
of these Satanic groups had some dreadful rituals. They often
(14:56):
involved exhumed corpses, severed body parts, and jewelry made from
human vertebrae.
Speaker 11 (15:05):
And then I went up and opened the cupboard next
to him, and there I found that woman's head in
the cupboard.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Spine chilling. Crimes like this were happening regularly, and the
judicial system, also majority Christian, took satan very seriously. Demonic
possession was even taken into consideration and courts of law.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
The judge basically said, occult and satanic possession would be
a viable reason in my courtroom for not being prosecuted
for a murder.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
These stories of panic and ritual murder are meant to
emphasize the gravity of this movement.
Speaker 12 (15:42):
The Satanic panic of the nineties was literally a panic
about the devil, the literal physical presence of the devil.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
This fear of the devil is still very real for
South Africa and the people of Kruger's door. This frenzy
affected every level of society, courts, household, school, and people
like Ria Grunavald, Queen Havoc's first victim, or at least
the first that we know of. Ria Grunivald. She was
(16:23):
known as a pillar in her community, a devout Christian
and a mother then in her mid fifties. The members
of her small congregation saw her as a sort of
warrior fighting to protect the innocent.
Speaker 12 (16:35):
Do you say to white South Africans at a certain age,
the Satanists are coming for me and they know what
you mean.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Rhea knew what it meant, and she often won her battles,
saving ex Satanists from the devil's grasp. But the enemy
was still everywhere.
Speaker 12 (16:52):
This means there's an evil cultic conspiracy that is capable
of extreme violence and lurks unseen and all sorts of
doors in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Ria was determined to keep those doors bolted shut in
the name of God.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Years back, Ria Krunevald, which were bought obviously of the
Krugersdorp murders, came to us for training.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Psychologist Fhavinga was a mentor to Rea. His organization facilitates
training for community leaders. I met with FH at his
practice and sat down with him to learn more.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
She went through a course in our training modules, which
is helping potential victims of a cult related trauma.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
The influence of Satanism was strong enough to require cult
intervention and recovery programs. After her training, Rhea started a
group she called Overcomers through Christ. Will refer to them
as otc here is Colonel Kobas Yanker again.
Speaker 11 (17:54):
They were the group that dealt with Satanists, getting them
out of the movement.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
The devil was in fact encircling them, only she was
in disguise. It was Queen Havoc herself, Cecilia Stein.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
The day when Celia joined this Overcomers through Christ, this
ministry that Rhea created. Celia came in as she broke
away from Satanism and needs help and needs protection because
the witches wants to kill her and they have to
hide her, and Rhea gave all to Celia.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Everyone who knew Ria speaks to her altruistic nature and
ability to see the good in people despite their past. Unfortunately,
her welcoming spirit and unwavering faith made her vulnerable to
someone like.
Speaker 10 (18:44):
Cecilia, religion can be abused to me beul like people
to get whatever from them.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
That's journalist Jana Marx. She's well known in South Africa
and wrote the definitive book on this case after being
present for all of the court proceedings. It's called The
Kruger Store of Cult Killings. Inside Cecilia Stein's Reign of Terror.
We sat down with her in her home to discuss
the case.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's happening much more than we think, especially in a
more conservative, more religious country like South Africa.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Whether or not it was Cecilia's original intention to gain power,
we will never know. What we do know is that
she wove an intricate and seductive web that a select
few got seriously tangled in. Here's detective suse canoes again.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Celia just saw the loophole in getting close to Riha,
and she just grabbed it. She took Rhea's sensitive personality
and kind personality for granted.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Ria's mentor breaks down some of her manipulation tactics for us.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Usually, when we talk about Goulds, we use a byte
system bie.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions to elaborate a cult leader
exerts control by in influencing their potential followers. Using this methodology,
the model proposes that these constitute the four components of
mind control. Behavior is usually the first a good way
to test the waters.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
When a cult leader starts influencing people, they first start
controlling their behavior. They do something. The cult leader does
something and see how people respond.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Cecilia made fast friends with Rhea, whose whole heart was
focused on Cecilia's salvation and ultimate deliverance from Satan himself.
Speaker 11 (20:32):
She was an Excitanist, according to her, that was married
to the devil. She even got a marriage certificate that
she and the devil signed. I don't know exactly where
she made him to sign the contract, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
That's Detective Ben Boysen think of Chuck Norris with the
tenacity of svu's Elliott Stabler. I mean, this guy lives
to serve, protect and to take down the bad guys.
We'll spend a lot of time with Ben throughout this podcast.
It is in large part his determination that eventually broke
the case, and given the pace of the killings, likely
(21:10):
saved many lives. Detective Susette Canotz says Cecilia's claims of
diabolical origins drew Ria in and soon other members of
the OTC were spellbound.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Two.
Speaker 6 (21:22):
She had a witch mother that gives birth to it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Cecilia told Ria that she had a witch mother who
had been sacrificed by the Satanic Church, leaving Cecilia vulnerable
and alone. She was plagued by Satanic possessions that could
overtake her at any moment.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
The devil will come and you will Ripecilia to get
her back into Satanism.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Both women agreed that Ria should hold maternal rights over Cecilia.
She assured Ria that by maintaining this role, she would
gain more favor in the spirit world and pose a
greater threat to the Satanists. Cecilia began calling Ria Mamma.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Celia could never leave krugez or no. A certain perimeter
of her house was then the witch's attack and she
gets six and whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Rea commissioned OTC members to aid her in what became
a twenty four to seven vigil to protect Cecilia from
these supernatural threats. Cecilia also claimed to suffer from dissociative
identity disorder or DID, meaning she had multiple personalities that
she would slip in and out of a result of
(22:32):
some early traumatic experiences, so Cecilia truly could never be
left alone.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Cecilia would become a little girl or Anya three year old,
and Rio would just play with her.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
They will go to the park and she would lie
in Rio's arm like I don't go with.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You when you go out of a picnic.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
They would just really, you know, nurture this little gal.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
They would even feed her formula from a bottle when
she was hungry. I know it sounds outlandish to think
about a woman in her fifties feeding this thirty year
old from a baby bottle, but it's true. Ria was
that committed to Cecilia. By two thousand and eight, Ria
(23:17):
deepened her commitment by moving into an apartment down the
street from Cecilia's home at Casana Flats. To protect her
spiritual daughter, Mama Rihea and the other members began to
work in shifts. They took care of all of Cecilia's
earthly needs. This also meant that Cecilia, now subtly and slyly,
(23:40):
began to control their work schedules. She expected certain people
to tend to her at certain times. She also exerted
control over when they ate when they slept, what music
they listened to, and what they watched on TV, including
violent serial killer movies. By twenty ten, after three years
of influence, Cecilia's agenda had all but taken over the group.
(24:04):
The payoff for the OTC members was fulfilling their mission
and saving souls from Satan's grip.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
And that's the sad thing. Because Ria gave the platform
for Cecilia to write the information which all her volunteers,
Rhea's volunteers in Overcomers in Christ would follow.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Cecilia convinced Rhea that our congregation was too focused on
believe it or not Jesus that in order to fight
the devil, to help people escape from him, they must
get to know the Prince of darkness. They must study
him and familiarize themselves with his deceitful ways and clever tricks.
And Cecilia she knew the devil intimately, so she was
(24:47):
the only one who could tell them everything they needed
to know to successfully combat this spiritual battle against evil. Together,
Ria and Cecilia set out to write a pamphlet that
laid out just that everything Cecilia knew about Satan from
her past and how to fight him. They called it
Know your Enemy.
Speaker 7 (25:10):
That was their manual. That is a perfect platform for
a cult leader. All the volunteers started admiring Cecilia. Cecilia
became the leader. Cecilia became the voice. Cecilia became the knowledge.
Cecilia became the expert.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
All the while, Rhea's mentor saw the red flags and
did his best to guide.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
Her as it real. Please, we worried about you. You
are isolating, you don't have mentorship. The only people you
are associating with the people in your group.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
One of the classic signs of a group that has
gotten lost inside itself is when the members believe they
have enough moral high ground to reject the ideas of
anyone who questions them.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
We couldn't find any neutral ground. I just said no,
But God said, and I'm going to look after this lady.
And God put it on my life. And the only
spirit says I said, real, whoa whoa whoa.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Butria would not heed his words. The OTC's level of
involvement in Cecilia's life was far from ethical in the
Isahawinga and his training organization, so he withdrew her credentials.
Speaker 7 (26:19):
The training that we did with you and all your
certificates and everything. We are now canceling that. We are
suspending all that from today and requesting that you will
not in any form associate your name with any of
our affiliates.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Despite her insisting otherwise. Ria had over committed with maternal
rights to Cecilia's myriad of personalities. There was some next
level caretaking going on for Rea. After years of playing handman, though,
(27:00):
Rhea did begin to question Cecilia's motives, and by the
fall of twenty eleven, her mentor's warnings echoed in her mind.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
I remember my words, I say to Arihea. If you
continue with this, people can lose their lives. You're playing
with life and death principleshit.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
And unfortunately Havingo was right. It's twenty eleven and Ria
Grunival's life was falling to pieces a result of dedicating
(27:44):
all of her time to Cecilia Stein. Without official mentorship,
and overcome by her looming doubts, Rhea sought out advice
from her old pastor, Reginald ben Dixon. He pointed out
to her that their focus on Satan and protecting themselves
from evil was so robust that they had forgotten about
living for others and the power of the Lord. Cecilia
(28:06):
could sense Rhea's withdrawal. She became enraged at the thought
that Ria would give up on her, so she started
asserting power however she could. We are about to hear
is a piece of written testimony by Rhea. We tried
to contact her for an interview, but she has since
changed her name and moved far away from Kruger's store,
(28:27):
so we asked an actor to read it for us.
The statement is sparse, with this particular memory she felt
moved to share.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
After she put me at Jews one morning, I fell
asleep and I woke up ten hours later. She told
me that an astral spirit came in and put a
sedative in my Jews.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Cecilia had bruises all over her body. She said that
Satanists had attacked her while Rhea slept.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
From that day on, she knew everything about me, even
my character flaws. She assured me that the Satanic Church
had all my information. They knew my every conversation, every move,
even my thoughts. I was always surrounded by them, and
I couldn't do anything without them knowing. I believed her.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It was later revealed in court that while Ria was sleeping,
Cecilia had in fact gone through Rhea's phone and computer,
seeking information she could later use to control her. After
this incident, Ria's suspicion of Cecilia's motives only grew, and
so came the great divide.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
As we see, you're going to start forming camps within
overcomers in Christ and people need to start making decisions,
and you need to now choose you're going to be
for or against.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Many of the members of OTC remained devoted to Rhea,
some followed Cecilia, and still others were caught in the middle,
unsure how to navigate this awkward separation. Cecilia still demanded
round the clock care, and members would continue to rotate
to be with her, including one OTC member, Natasha Berger,
(30:19):
who will meet again later. A select few, however, swore
off both Rhea and Cecilia, a decision that may very
well have saved their lives. Cecilia managed to pull five
loyal members into her camp. They called themselves Electus perdeis
Latin for Chosen by God, and the people in this group,
(30:41):
which we refer to as EPD, would eventually become known
as the Krueger's stor of killers.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
Cecilia Stein had this group around which involved Mikhaela Valentin,
Zach Valentin, Marindo Stein, and Turquits Leroux and Marcel. They
actually could do you need meeting in private at Cicilo's house.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
That's Captain Johann van Vick, a critical player in the
murder investigations. He's a tall, stately man, well dressed in
a sharp suit. He's soft spoken and seemed a little
nervous when we sat down with him. Keep in mind,
this is a winding spiral stairs kind of case with
many phases of escalation. It became, for obvious reasons, a
(31:24):
national issue and for other reasons that you'll come to know.
There were several stages of investigation. A variety of professionals
were brought in to lend their insight, including child psychologists,
an advocate, Roselyind.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
McNabb, Marcel, her mother, brother, Zach Valentini. Is what they
decided to side with Cecilia, and then they decided to
call themselves Electus pideis just chosen about God.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
The members of Electus Perdeis consisted of Merinda Stein, no
relation to Secilia, and her two children, LaRue and Marcel
along with married couple Zach and Michaeleb Valentine. Marcel Stein
was only ten years old and her brother LaRue was
just twelve when their mother folded their family into Electus
per DAAs. Cecilia ran Electus per DAAs like a real ministry.
(32:18):
Members had to make their regular contributions to finance the
group's activities. She adopted a symbolic new identity and insisted
her tiny flock call her by her first initial see.
She pulled from the Byte method playbook, declaring OTC the
enemy and making herself the center of their universe. Cecilia
(32:40):
now had an army of her own, and Rhea was
trying hard to distance herself to leave the battlefield altogether.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
Rea told Celia, listen, I don't want to have anything
to do with you anymore. And now Celia sees it
as being rejected. Now she's not happy with that, and
she needs revenge.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Cecilia was furious that Ria deserted her. How could her
own mother do this to her? She would have to pay.
Cecilia told Ria vi Attacks that she had a meeting
with Satan and he had given her a message for
Rhea playtime is over. This is war.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Just before the murder started, there was car bombings happening
to scare Ria.
Speaker 8 (33:28):
Petrol bombs were used to intimidate people attending these meetings.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
This season on Queen Havoc and her Murder Cult that.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
She kills Ria. Ria Khan returned to her, but she
was telling people the Bible say she must go and killed,
But actually she was taking revenge the beating.
Speaker 11 (33:46):
They bought, the wall and the roof was full of blood.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
It could have been me and you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They were doing regular jobs, showing up her appointment and
they were killed.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
Every time you think you understand what's happening, you realize
that you're.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
Schooly Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Tacchini,
Julia Chriscau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(34:26):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associated producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Melman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(34:51):
Clay Hillenberg and Josh hook. Ria Grunovald's testimony is read
by Madeline Page. Executive producers are Ginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,
Brandon Barr, Jennifer Tukeiny and Kurt Kupachak. We want to
thank all of those who so generously welcomed us in
South Africa and shared their stories. We're incredibly grateful to
(35:14):
you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these
events are for the victims and their families. Please respect
their privacy. If you or someone you know has been
affected by cold behaviors, there are resources available, including Voices
for Dignity at Christine Murray dot com
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains
material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion ADVISEDZA.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Found with it's August seventeenth, two thousand and seven. Krugersdorp,
South Africa, a mining town outside at Johannesburg. A faded,
green and yellow housing complex called Casana Flats sits just
across from the local hospital, a building that has seen
(00:42):
better days. Inside one of the modest one bedroom apartments,
a group of ten faithful Christian worshippers has gathered in
preparation for war. It is the home of Cecilia Stein,
and the faithful have come to pray over her. You see,
Cecilia is a witch, a forty second generation witch to
(01:03):
be exact. She claims she was once married to Satan himself.
She even has a marriage certificate to prove it. But
these days, Cecilia says she's left Satanism behind. She now
seeks salvation from God's love. The members of this congregation,
which is devoted to fighting evil in all its forms,
(01:26):
call their group overcomers, Sir Christ. Their leader is a kind, generous,
fifty year old woman named Ria Gruneval. Tonight, she leads
her followers in songs and fervent prayer to cast the
devil out of this pale, thirty year old woman. They
will attempt to divorce Cecilia from her marriage to Satan
(01:46):
in hopes that these frequent possessions will cease. These believers
call this gathering a high Knight. Rihea gives the group
strict orders to keep a close watch on Cecilia, who
sits on her bed, dead still, like a ticking time bomb.
(02:06):
Without warning, Cecilia bolts upright in bed. She spasms, her face, contorts,
her body jerks. She twists in her bed, convulsing violently.
She's possessed by a demon, or perhaps the devil himself.
What you're hearing now is a live recording of an
actual high Night possession. As the young woman thrashes about,
(02:28):
her body bends and gnarls, her voice screams, and her
soul cries out from.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Deep inside her.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Rhea and her followers exchange glances. They are in a
full on battle for this woman's soul. Cecilia's body whips
and snaps around in bed. It looks as if she's
being hit by invisible blows. The group understands these to
be attacks via astral projection. Cecilia is like a living
voodoo doll. The congregation fights even harder. They pray with conviction.
(03:06):
Rhea and her congregation are up against a spiritual wall.
They focus their energies on Cecilia, laying hands on her,
and blood bubbles from Cecilia's mouth. This doesn't stop them.
The believers implore the demons to release Cecilia from their grasp,
and then, just as suddenly as the attack began, Cecilia's
(03:28):
body goes limp. She collapses against the bed. She's zerily calm.
The tiny apartment is now hot, stuffy, the air still agitated,
the congregation size. They begin to whisper thanks pe to God.
(03:48):
In the battle for Cecilia's soul, They've won. They beat
the devil this time. My name is Kurt Kupachek. I'm
a filmmaker and storyteller, and this is the true story
(04:10):
behind the wrath of Cecilia Stein.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She's actually an evil person.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
She was born and bred with the thought that she
has the power to kill.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
In the world of murderous cults. If Charles Manson is King,
Cecilia Stein is Queen.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
She conditioned them to be monsters.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Why step someone sixty five times in the chaste?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Motivated by power, greed, and revenge, Cecilia's cult, called Electus
Perdeis killed eleven people in her name and left the
lives of countless others in shambles. If you want to
get out of this, we will kill you.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
This feels like everybody around you is giving murdered.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
She is absolutely evil.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
She is the devil.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
She would do anything to get her way.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Foul of humans and iHeart podcasts. This is Queen Havoc
and her murder Cult Episode one Queen in the making.
(05:26):
After a couple of years researching, I was eager to
be on the ground to understand more about this devastating
case that gryptination and to investigate some of the gaps
in the story I'd read so much about. I wanted
to talk with people, look into the eyes of those
who lived through it, to hear first hand accounts from
both the survivors and the killers, who, in this bizarre instance,
(05:48):
are sometimes one and the same. What really hooked me
about this story was the detectives, the lengths to which
they had to go in order to end Cecilia Stein's
reign of murder in Mayhem eve at least a sense
of justice for the victims and their families. The detectives
were everyday heroes, but not in some way that's easy
(06:09):
to define. In fact, some of them were dirty, which
is another part of this story. This is why we
wanted to speak with them and with everyone we could,
anyone who could tell us about this case and all
the horrors that were carried out in a holy name.
So producer Jennifer Tolkeeney and I traveled from Los Angeles
to South Africa, where this whole saga began.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
Tomboy International Airport in Jahannesburg local time twenty eight minutes
by six o'clock, South Africa's standard time, and we'll be
talking you for the next few minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Of Captain's halfway around the world. We traveled to meet
with detectives, journalists, psychologists, and we even got to speak
with some of the cult members themselves, the ones who
managed to stay alive, all of whom were forever changed
by Cecilia Stein. On the trail in South Africa, what
we encountered was much more tragic than what we'd imagined
at the start. In short, The story changed us too.
(07:04):
He told me about how he killed with that act.
In speaking with locals and investigating this story, we actually
shook things up a bit. We ended up unearthing things
that were meant to remain buried. We were even nearly
entangled in a police corruption investigation. This story is still
alive and it's still seeking justice. The Kruger's doorf cult killings,
(07:28):
as they're known in South Africa, were a grizzly chain
of events. To make sense of the near senseless brutality,
Let's get to know Kruger's Door, the small suburb about
forty minutes west the Johannesburg where the murders occurred, one
that is still tormented by these dark events. Eleven different
(07:49):
languages are spoken across South Africa. Most people in Krugersdorp
speak Afrikaans as their first language. To understand some of
the cultural context of South Africa, will turn to academics
and scholars, ones who were there at the time, like
doctor Nicki Falkoff.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
These towns on the outskirts of Jannisburg, they feel like
places that time forgot.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Almost Nikki has spent her life studying South African culture
post apartheid, and has written extensively on the topic. Driving
through the Greater Johannes Bergeria and Kruger Store, you see
these high walls and imposing iron gates. They're everywhere. Nearly
every community is gated, sealed, closed off. It is a
(08:35):
rather perfect metaphor for the themes that emerge while we
reported on this story. For instance, when we choose walls
to protect ourselves, we must also consider who we choose
to let in and why these walls, the very things
we think are protecting us, can actually leave us vulnerable.
Do they provide protection or imprisonment? On the surface, the
(09:01):
confines of a cult make you feel like you belong,
That's why they're appealing. But after a while they begin
to serve as a reminder that once you're in, there's
no getting out. And finally, the biggest question in my mind,
what drives our inherent human need to belong to something?
(09:22):
And how do our relationships serve our efforts towards satiating
this primal desire.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
We have some hijacking hotspots we used to avoid. Yeah,
so see traffic light at night? I wait like this
because if someone approaches my window right now, I've got
that much space to head forward and they have to run.
That's really good and you put your hand on the hooter.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yes, that's me and my producing partner Jennifer Tikini driving
with Jermaine Kreher, who helped us now the Gate around
South Africa during our time there.
Speaker 10 (10:02):
I'm a South African journalist working across a variety of
beats and mediums.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Jermaine quickly became an integral part of our team as
she grew up very close to Kruger's door.
Speaker 10 (10:13):
I am a west Rand baby, born and bridge raised
on the Westrand, which is just a stone throwaway from Krugersdorp.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
The west Rand is a district that implies west of
Johannesburg or Joeburg as the locals call it. Krugersdorp is
in this district as well.
Speaker 9 (10:29):
We have very high levels of poverty across South Africa.
Krugelzorb specifically has very high levels of white poverty, which
makes it quite different from a lot of the other
regions in the same breath. Though it also has incredibly
rich and affluent areas, so it's got this absolute disparity
this contrast, and I think that probably had a big
(10:52):
influence in the case, specifically if you look at the
economic crime elements of it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We were very fortunate to have Jermaine's guidance, insight, and
logistical support. We also learned from the many people we
spoke to that South Africa is a fervently religious place.
Close to eighty percent of people identify as Christians nationwide,
many of them in Pentecostal or evangelical traditions. There are,
of course, and sexral traditions as well, but only five
(11:23):
percent identified with these belief systems in the general household survey.
And just to be clear, we are dealing with white
communities here, both the criminals and the victims in the US.
This was many people's first question when hearing about this case.
That being said, we can't talk about post apartheid South
Africa without acknowledging the racial dynamics underlying every aspect of
(11:45):
life there. The segregation of apartheid. It trained white South
Africans to live in a perpetual state of fear. They
feared to imagine black violence due to the centuries of
violent oppression, which led to these modern terrified white people
hiding by towering white walls. Here's Niki fealkoff again.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
There was this manifestation of a kind of really hysterical
Christian paranoia, particularly among white South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And there was a measurable uptick in communities of faith
leading up to South Africa's own version of Satanic panic
in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Without a doubt, I think that structural conditions that are
one hundred percent related to apartheid but have been exacerbated
ever since, are the main driver of these kinds of behaviors.
It's not that Satan has an extra special foothold in
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
There are a number of theories as to what drove
the fervor, but it grew became ingrained within South African culture,
while the impending end of apartheid sowed the seeds of
a broader moral panic in fast sections of the white population,
and over time, these small, tight knit congregations like the
(12:58):
Overcomers through Christ became commonplace. There's someone else I'd like
you to meet, someone that is very important to this
story and a person I have come to respect and
admire greatly.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Suzeit knitze I started with the police in nineteen ninety
started at the Detective Service at our head office detectives.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Whosec. Canotse is a third generation detective, mother of two,
and served in the South African Police Service as a
satanic panic gain steam in the nineties. She was also
one of the detectives who worked on the Kruger's Dor
of Colt killings, and she's the person who first introduced
me to this case when I met her in Los
Angeles in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
From there, in ninety two, I started with a unit
called the Occult Related Crimes.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yep, you heard that right, that's the Occult Related Crimes
Unit or ORKUP, an entire unit of the police force
dedicated to investigating criminal activity with potential links to occult
rituals and practices, witchcraft, the supernatural matters of the spirit.
It was the only unit of its kind in the world,
(14:10):
formed in response to the sheer number of gruesome murders
and misdeeds being reported. Pretty wild, right.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
We dealt with all kinds of occult related crimes, being Satanism,
being well, anything that had to do with the ocults.
Those kind of crimes I handled well myself and pinol Yonka.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
She mentions doctor Colonel Cobis Jonker. He was the founder
and head of Orku, an author of a book called
Satanism in South Africa that outlines what kinds of crimes
they handled, those deemed occult in nature. He told us
about a couple of particularly macob cases he handled. Some
of these Satanic groups had some dreadful rituals. They often
(14:56):
involved exhumed corpses, severed body parts, and jewelry made from
human vertebrae.
Speaker 11 (15:05):
And then I went up and opened the cupboard next
to him, and there I found that woman's head in
the cupboard.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Spine chilling. Crimes like this were happening regularly, and the
judicial system, also majority Christian, took satan very seriously. Demonic
possession was even taken into consideration and courts of law.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
The judge basically said, occult and satanic possession would be
a viable reason in my courtroom for not being prosecuted
for a murder.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
These stories of panic and ritual murder are meant to
emphasize the gravity of this movement.
Speaker 12 (15:42):
The Satanic panic of the nineties was literally a panic
about the devil, the literal physical presence of the devil.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
This fear of the devil is still very real for
South Africa and the people of Kruger's door. This frenzy
affected every level of society, courts, household, school, and people
like Ria Grunavald, Queen Havoc's first victim, or at least
the first that we know of. Ria Grunivald. She was
(16:23):
known as a pillar in her community, a devout Christian
and a mother then in her mid fifties. The members
of her small congregation saw her as a sort of
warrior fighting to protect the innocent.
Speaker 12 (16:35):
Do you say to white South Africans at a certain age,
the Satanists are coming for me and they know what
you mean.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Rhea knew what it meant, and she often won her battles,
saving ex Satanists from the devil's grasp. But the enemy
was still everywhere.
Speaker 12 (16:52):
This means there's an evil cultic conspiracy that is capable
of extreme violence and lurks unseen and all sorts of
doors in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Ria was determined to keep those doors bolted shut in
the name of God.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Years back, Ria Krunevald, which were bought obviously of the
Krugersdorp murders, came to us for training.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Psychologist Fhavinga was a mentor to Rea. His organization facilitates
training for community leaders. I met with FH at his
practice and sat down with him to learn more.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
She went through a course in our training modules, which
is helping potential victims of a cult related trauma.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
The influence of Satanism was strong enough to require cult
intervention and recovery programs. After her training, Rhea started a
group she called Overcomers through Christ. Will refer to them
as otc here is Colonel Kobas Yanker again.
Speaker 11 (17:54):
They were the group that dealt with Satanists, getting them
out of the movement.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
The devil was in fact encircling them, only she was
in disguise. It was Queen Havoc herself, Cecilia Stein.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
The day when Celia joined this Overcomers through Christ, this
ministry that Rhea created. Celia came in as she broke
away from Satanism and needs help and needs protection because
the witches wants to kill her and they have to
hide her, and Rhea gave all to Celia.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Everyone who knew Ria speaks to her altruistic nature and
ability to see the good in people despite their past. Unfortunately,
her welcoming spirit and unwavering faith made her vulnerable to
someone like.
Speaker 10 (18:44):
Cecilia, religion can be abused to me beul like people
to get whatever from them.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
That's journalist Jana Marx. She's well known in South Africa
and wrote the definitive book on this case after being
present for all of the court proceedings. It's called The
Kruger Store of Cult Killings. Inside Cecilia Stein's Reign of Terror.
We sat down with her in her home to discuss
the case.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's happening much more than we think, especially in a
more conservative, more religious country like South Africa.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Whether or not it was Cecilia's original intention to gain power,
we will never know. What we do know is that
she wove an intricate and seductive web that a select
few got seriously tangled in. Here's detective suse canoes again.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Celia just saw the loophole in getting close to Riha,
and she just grabbed it. She took Rhea's sensitive personality
and kind personality for granted.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Ria's mentor breaks down some of her manipulation tactics for us.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Usually, when we talk about Goulds, we use a byte
system bie.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions to elaborate a cult leader
exerts control by in influencing their potential followers. Using this methodology,
the model proposes that these constitute the four components of
mind control. Behavior is usually the first a good way
to test the waters.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
When a cult leader starts influencing people, they first start
controlling their behavior. They do something. The cult leader does
something and see how people respond.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Cecilia made fast friends with Rhea, whose whole heart was
focused on Cecilia's salvation and ultimate deliverance from Satan himself.
Speaker 11 (20:32):
She was an Excitanist, according to her, that was married
to the devil. She even got a marriage certificate that
she and the devil signed. I don't know exactly where
she made him to sign the contract, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
That's Detective Ben Boysen think of Chuck Norris with the
tenacity of svu's Elliott Stabler. I mean, this guy lives
to serve, protect and to take down the bad guys.
We'll spend a lot of time with Ben throughout this podcast.
It is in large part his determination that eventually broke
the case, and given the pace of the killings, likely
(21:10):
saved many lives. Detective Susette Canotz says Cecilia's claims of
diabolical origins drew Ria in and soon other members of
the OTC were spellbound.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Two.
Speaker 6 (21:22):
She had a witch mother that gives birth to it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Cecilia told Ria that she had a witch mother who
had been sacrificed by the Satanic Church, leaving Cecilia vulnerable
and alone. She was plagued by Satanic possessions that could
overtake her at any moment.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
The devil will come and you will Ripecilia to get
her back into Satanism.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Both women agreed that Ria should hold maternal rights over Cecilia.
She assured Ria that by maintaining this role, she would
gain more favor in the spirit world and pose a
greater threat to the Satanists. Cecilia began calling Ria Mamma.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Celia could never leave krugez or no. A certain perimeter
of her house was then the witch's attack and she
gets six and whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Rea commissioned OTC members to aid her in what became
a twenty four to seven vigil to protect Cecilia from
these supernatural threats. Cecilia also claimed to suffer from dissociative
identity disorder or DID, meaning she had multiple personalities that
she would slip in and out of a result of
(22:32):
some early traumatic experiences, so Cecilia truly could never be
left alone.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Cecilia would become a little girl or Anya three year old,
and Rio would just play with her.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
They will go to the park and she would lie
in Rio's arm like I don't go with.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You when you go out of a picnic.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
They would just really, you know, nurture this little gal.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
They would even feed her formula from a bottle when
she was hungry. I know it sounds outlandish to think
about a woman in her fifties feeding this thirty year
old from a baby bottle, but it's true. Ria was
that committed to Cecilia. By two thousand and eight, Ria
(23:17):
deepened her commitment by moving into an apartment down the
street from Cecilia's home at Casana Flats. To protect her
spiritual daughter, Mama Rihea and the other members began to
work in shifts. They took care of all of Cecilia's
earthly needs. This also meant that Cecilia, now subtly and slyly,
(23:40):
began to control their work schedules. She expected certain people
to tend to her at certain times. She also exerted
control over when they ate when they slept, what music
they listened to, and what they watched on TV, including
violent serial killer movies. By twenty ten, after three years
of influence, Cecilia's agenda had all but taken over the group.
(24:04):
The payoff for the OTC members was fulfilling their mission
and saving souls from Satan's grip.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
And that's the sad thing. Because Ria gave the platform
for Cecilia to write the information which all her volunteers,
Rhea's volunteers in Overcomers in Christ would follow.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Cecilia convinced Rhea that our congregation was too focused on
believe it or not Jesus that in order to fight
the devil, to help people escape from him, they must
get to know the Prince of darkness. They must study
him and familiarize themselves with his deceitful ways and clever tricks.
And Cecilia she knew the devil intimately, so she was
(24:47):
the only one who could tell them everything they needed
to know to successfully combat this spiritual battle against evil. Together,
Ria and Cecilia set out to write a pamphlet that
laid out just that everything Cecilia knew about Satan from
her past and how to fight him. They called it
Know your Enemy.
Speaker 7 (25:10):
That was their manual. That is a perfect platform for
a cult leader. All the volunteers started admiring Cecilia. Cecilia
became the leader. Cecilia became the voice. Cecilia became the knowledge.
Cecilia became the expert.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
All the while, Rhea's mentor saw the red flags and
did his best to guide.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
Her as it real. Please, we worried about you. You
are isolating, you don't have mentorship. The only people you
are associating with the people in your group.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
One of the classic signs of a group that has
gotten lost inside itself is when the members believe they
have enough moral high ground to reject the ideas of
anyone who questions them.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
We couldn't find any neutral ground. I just said no,
But God said, and I'm going to look after this lady.
And God put it on my life. And the only
spirit says I said, real, whoa whoa whoa.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Butria would not heed his words. The OTC's level of
involvement in Cecilia's life was far from ethical in the
Isahawinga and his training organization, so he withdrew her credentials.
Speaker 7 (26:19):
The training that we did with you and all your
certificates and everything. We are now canceling that. We are
suspending all that from today and requesting that you will
not in any form associate your name with any of
our affiliates.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Despite her insisting otherwise. Ria had over committed with maternal
rights to Cecilia's myriad of personalities. There was some next
level caretaking going on for Rea. After years of playing handman, though,
(27:00):
Rhea did begin to question Cecilia's motives, and by the
fall of twenty eleven, her mentor's warnings echoed in her mind.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
I remember my words, I say to Arihea. If you
continue with this, people can lose their lives. You're playing
with life and death principleshit.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
And unfortunately Havingo was right. It's twenty eleven and Ria
Grunival's life was falling to pieces a result of dedicating
(27:44):
all of her time to Cecilia Stein. Without official mentorship,
and overcome by her looming doubts, Rhea sought out advice
from her old pastor, Reginald ben Dixon. He pointed out
to her that their focus on Satan and protecting themselves
from evil was so robust that they had forgotten about
living for others and the power of the Lord. Cecilia
(28:06):
could sense Rhea's withdrawal. She became enraged at the thought
that Ria would give up on her, so she started
asserting power however she could. We are about to hear
is a piece of written testimony by Rhea. We tried
to contact her for an interview, but she has since
changed her name and moved far away from Kruger's store,
(28:27):
so we asked an actor to read it for us.
The statement is sparse, with this particular memory she felt
moved to share.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
After she put me at Jews one morning, I fell
asleep and I woke up ten hours later. She told
me that an astral spirit came in and put a
sedative in my Jews.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Cecilia had bruises all over her body. She said that
Satanists had attacked her while Rhea slept.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
From that day on, she knew everything about me, even
my character flaws. She assured me that the Satanic Church
had all my information. They knew my every conversation, every move,
even my thoughts. I was always surrounded by them, and
I couldn't do anything without them knowing. I believed her.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It was later revealed in court that while Ria was sleeping,
Cecilia had in fact gone through Rhea's phone and computer,
seeking information she could later use to control her. After
this incident, Ria's suspicion of Cecilia's motives only grew, and
so came the great divide.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
As we see, you're going to start forming camps within
overcomers in Christ and people need to start making decisions,
and you need to now choose you're going to be
for or against.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Many of the members of OTC remained devoted to Rhea,
some followed Cecilia, and still others were caught in the middle,
unsure how to navigate this awkward separation. Cecilia still demanded
round the clock care, and members would continue to rotate
to be with her, including one OTC member, Natasha Berger,
(30:19):
who will meet again later. A select few, however, swore
off both Rhea and Cecilia, a decision that may very
well have saved their lives. Cecilia managed to pull five
loyal members into her camp. They called themselves Electus perdeis
Latin for Chosen by God, and the people in this group,
(30:41):
which we refer to as EPD, would eventually become known
as the Krueger's stor of killers.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
Cecilia Stein had this group around which involved Mikhaela Valentin,
Zach Valentin, Marindo Stein, and Turquits Leroux and Marcel. They
actually could do you need meeting in private at Cicilo's house.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
That's Captain Johann van Vick, a critical player in the
murder investigations. He's a tall, stately man, well dressed in
a sharp suit. He's soft spoken and seemed a little
nervous when we sat down with him. Keep in mind,
this is a winding spiral stairs kind of case with
many phases of escalation. It became, for obvious reasons, a
(31:24):
national issue and for other reasons that you'll come to know.
There were several stages of investigation. A variety of professionals
were brought in to lend their insight, including child psychologists,
an advocate, Roselyind.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
McNabb, Marcel, her mother, brother, Zach Valentini. Is what they
decided to side with Cecilia, and then they decided to
call themselves Electus pideis just chosen about God.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
The members of Electus Perdeis consisted of Merinda Stein, no
relation to Secilia, and her two children, LaRue and Marcel
along with married couple Zach and Michaeleb Valentine. Marcel Stein
was only ten years old and her brother LaRue was
just twelve when their mother folded their family into Electus
per DAAs. Cecilia ran Electus per DAAs like a real ministry.
(32:18):
Members had to make their regular contributions to finance the
group's activities. She adopted a symbolic new identity and insisted
her tiny flock call her by her first initial see.
She pulled from the Byte method playbook, declaring OTC the
enemy and making herself the center of their universe. Cecilia
(32:40):
now had an army of her own, and Rhea was
trying hard to distance herself to leave the battlefield altogether.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
Rea told Celia, listen, I don't want to have anything
to do with you anymore. And now Celia sees it
as being rejected. Now she's not happy with that, and
she needs revenge.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Cecilia was furious that Ria deserted her. How could her
own mother do this to her? She would have to pay.
Cecilia told Ria vi Attacks that she had a meeting
with Satan and he had given her a message for
Rhea playtime is over. This is war.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Just before the murder started, there was car bombings happening
to scare Ria.
Speaker 8 (33:28):
Petrol bombs were used to intimidate people attending these meetings.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
This season on Queen Havoc and her Murder Cult that.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
She kills Ria. Ria Khan returned to her, but she
was telling people the Bible say she must go and killed,
But actually she was taking revenge the beating.
Speaker 11 (33:46):
They bought, the wall and the roof was full of blood.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
It could have been me and you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They were doing regular jobs, showing up her appointment and
they were killed.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
Every time you think you understand what's happening, you realize
that you're.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
Schooly Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Tacchini,
Julia Chriscau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(34:26):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associated producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Melman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(34:51):
Clay Hillenberg and Josh hook. Ria Grunovald's testimony is read
by Madeline Page. Executive producers are Ginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,
Brandon Barr, Jennifer Tukeiny and Kurt Kupachak. We want to
thank all of those who so generously welcomed us in
South Africa and shared their stories. We're incredibly grateful to
(35:14):
you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these
events are for the victims and their families. Please respect
their privacy. If you or someone you know has been
affected by cold behaviors, there are resources available, including Voices
for Dignity at Christine Murray dot com
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