June 20, 2023 • 37 mins
The vortex of Cecilia’s brainwashing deepens, entangling her followers even further. Luke feels himself getting sucked into their wicked ways, so he gets the cops involved – with surprising results. Meanwhile, Detective Suzette Knoetze is hot on EPD’s trail. The investigation forces the cult into hiding and begins to reveal Cecilia’s misleading motivations.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
School of Humans. This show follows the investigation of serial
murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Late October twenty twelve, the trees were just beginning to bud.
A series of homicides were now sending shockwaves through the
small town of Krugerstorp, South Africa. The local papers run
stories about satanic murders, citing police reports of brutal, seemingly
ceremonial scenes. No charges were ever filed against Ria Grunevald,
(00:44):
but as the trees blossomed, so did the doubts and
the hearts and minds of Rhea's friends and confidants. Rhea
couldn't leave her house without being harassed, so she used
her time in isolation to repair her relationship with her son, Joshua.
Rhea's years of devotion to Cecilia left Joshua feeling neglected
and resentful. Rhea felt determined to bridge the divide between them. Coincidentally,
(01:10):
that same October, Joshua became the latest fixation for Cecilia Stein.
Since revenge against Ria was her primary goal, she could
find no better target for her wrath. By this time,
Luke the infiltrator was being primed to officially become a
member of Electus Perdeis. He was spending a lot of
(01:33):
time with Cecilia and Zach and the others. Luke's primary
residence was out of town, but since he had worked
in Kruger's door, he liked to stay with his friends
Zach and Michaela. The three had become close. Luke had
also been an acquaintance of Natasha Berger and Joy Burnside.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I was murdered. I couldn't and I looked. I didn't
have to part with it because it feels like everybody
in ron Jews keeping money.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Believing that Zach was devastated, Luke stuck around to help
his friend grieve the loss of his wife, even if
it meant staying in the same house where she was killed.
Luke found Zach to be strangely unaffected by his wife's murder.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That the man didn't even cry about his wife.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Everyone had loved Michaela, Luke concluded. In her absence, Luke
found himself slowly drawn into Cecilia's orbit. Then one day
she popped the question.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
She asked me, do you think zackscribable of murder?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Luke had growing doubts about Zach, but not enough to
label him a murderer.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Saw below. I don't know, I don't think so, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Cecilia assured him that Zach was a loyal soldier in
her army, willing to do whatever it took to carry
out God's word.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So she told me about how he killed Pendson with
the X namon started every care program.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Right before his unbelieving eyes, it re enacted the murder.
Luke was horrified. His worst fears confirmed his friend Zach
was indeed a killer, and now Luke was suddenly profoundly
scared for his own life. He'd gotten too close to Cecilia,
and like Mikayla, he also knew too much.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And then the whole things started to make sense to you.
What's going on and all every boys.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Involved from School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is
Queen Havoc and her murder cult. I'm your host, Kurt Kubachak,
Episode five, Never Can You Run. One night in Cecilia's small,
(04:01):
dimly little apartment, Zach Valentine tells the group he's received
a sign, a vision just like the one Cecilia had
about Natasha Ria Grunivald's son, Joshua should be their next target.
Then Marinda chimes in. Turns out she also received a
sign about Joshua's future on Earth. This tract with the plans,
(04:23):
Cecilia already started plotting to hit Ria Grunivald where it
would hurt the most.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So they cornered me, and they say that I must
be Zach's right hand man. I must help him to
murder Joshua.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
In a matter of months, Zach had evolved from husband,
friend and frequent host to a cold, calculating murderer, and
Luke was being groomed to join their sadistic form of worship.
To Cecilia's steying, I keep.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Myself cool that in the inside I was ripped the
thought and day's night time to go with cry and stuff.
Then I must get into this guide, thinking and praying
every night how to avoid this.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Luke was having a crisis, realizing that his initial impulse
to infiltrate the group was a bit naive. He placed
himself in the crosshairs of real killers, and by the
time he came face to face with this reality, the
one in which he might very likely be murdered, he
was in too deep. Now he was spending his nights
(05:27):
in Zach's passenger seat, stalking their next victim and trying
desperately to think of ways to thwart Zach.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Every night they went through and spied on this guy.
Are we What's talk? A couple of times, driving to
his house, and then he played volleyball day in Randburgh.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Jana Marx's book describes EPD placing hidden cameras in the
trees outside Joshua's home. One evening, Zach trailed him into
a bar and slipped something in his drink. J Zach's dismay.
It seemed to have no effect, but they were getting
(06:09):
closer and the walls were closing in on.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Luke to Nithis tonight, They're gonna kill him and then
I'll just come up with excuses or all do anything
in my pala to something.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
When Joshua's active, outgoing lifestyle made him hard to track,
EPD decided to try the same tactic they'd used with
Ben Dixon. They would make an appointment. Luke made the
first call to Internet Solutions, the company Joshua worked for,
and requested a house call, but Luke couldn't get him
to nail down a time, which makes sense. Joshua worked
(06:46):
in systems, I not a help desk. So Marinda tried next.
She said she needed help connecting her home WiFi. Joshua
was polite, but instead of agreen to come over, he
referred her to one of his peers. As EPD ramped
up its tactics, Luke kept trying to stall.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I was doing everything in my power that I've worked
with people. Luckily they believed all the bullshit I feeded them.
It's almost like a split personality in the day when
I'm with him, I'm this type of person, but I'm
myself in.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Horrible Meanwhile, Joshua had become a bit suspicious something about
this onslaught of house call requests felled off. Luke wanted
no part in the murder, so he tried to get
out of it by having an honest conversation with Cecilia.
Luke thought he was dealing with a rational mind, and
(07:44):
how do you think Cecilia responded well? She returned to
scripture reminded them that they were God's soldiers, following in
the footsteps of King David. Luke later testified in court
that zach Once threatened his life After Luke questioned the
way Cecilia and EPD conducted themselves, he just warm.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You know, I started thinking like his wife ing it up.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Now, both Luke and Joshua's only hope for survival depended
on Luke's bravery. He desperately needed to collect evidence to
prove they were planning this murder. Then he could go
to the police, but he had to do it before
the hammers, knives, and axes came out for him.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I didn't know what to do anymore. I just paid
and I asked the Lord. It gave me strength and
everything and league meet because I'm gonna get caught. I'm
gonna die like Makaya.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Court hearings revealed that Cecilia ordered LaRue to dig three graves,
all in different locations. That way, EPD had options for
where to bury Joshua's body. Luke, the infiltrator, was in
over his head.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You are so scared, but you can't sherwance. She needed
Suffici reaching in your insight, because if they can get
a glimpse of something, especially as a cilio, is that
it's game over for you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
All systems were go, and Luke wanted out despite his
ever present fears, Luke kept searching for evidence to incriminate
the members of EPD. He needed hard proof. Luckily, finding
it didn't take too long.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
The person that murdered McKayla, who Wonner White a we
equipland and I found that thing Zacks couplet.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It was time Luke went to the police.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We ne got very hot. That's when I wented it.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The tip of that detective is Colonel the Yager, the
one who was so fixated on the Satanic angle. The
Yager was Luke's only contact in the Cruise Door Police
at this time.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So I met this colonel one day and he gave
me a type recorder because if they can get the
confession on tape, it's a media erased.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's now December twenty twelve, summer in South Africa. Dusk.
Luke is now working under cover for the police, summoning
all the courage he can muster. His plan is to
record the killers from EPD, get them to confess to
all four murders, Natasha and Joy, Pastor Reginald Bendixon and MICHAELA. Valentine.
(10:39):
Once he gets them on tape, he'll step outside of
Cassana Flats and signal to the police. At least those
are the orders Luke's been given.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I had a pocketing my least rom of my biker jacket.
The recorder was face.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He arrives at Cecilia's place. Nothing out of the order.
They meet their regularly. Luke plays it cool at first.
He has a plan to get them talking.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I leaded this whole conversation, and we spoke about everything.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You know, Luke reaches the subject of murder. It's a
risky move. He asks how they did it. True to
their nature as amateur cutthroats, Cecilia, Zach, and Mirinda openly confess,
boasting about the kills.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
What everyone day. I got everybody to confess about the
murders and everything, and I planned the next murder.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's right, all four murders, and the plans to kill
Rhea's son Joshua. As the night wears on, a bad
feeling creeps over Luke. This shroud of anxiety and adrenaline
peeks as he looks around the room and he realizes
(11:53):
Zach is missing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
While I was talking to Cecilia, we saw this appeared.
And now are they work? And you just a little voice,
he said, Bryan. He just just toat your stuff and go,
Just get out of here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Luke immediately wonders, did I ask too many questions? Is
a silly onomy? Is Zach out there waiting for me
in the dark?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
No, I knew, what's my time?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I need to go now, Luke makes up a reason
for why he has to bow out for the night.
With the tape still rolling in his pocket, Luke steps outside.
You have expects a flurry of police activity, but the
night is quiet.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Now wein' outside leaves the y and he was indeed Haldin.
I added one and one to gear.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Luke stands at the top of the Casana Flats complex steps.
His breath quickens. On his way down the stairs, he
glimpses a sign that reads danger. It's a private property sign.
He's read it a million times, but this time it's different.
That's when Luke hears that little voice once again.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I turned from my life. I was almost murdered th line.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
First, he had to go back to Zach and Michaela's
to get his stuff, but he only had his motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So I got on my bike. I'll drive his Zack's house.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Fear rushes through him as he steps in his Zach's apartment.
Zach isn't there, thank god. Luke springs into action, calling
a friend to come get him. While he grabs what
he can took.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Almost stuff like the get he like a split segund.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In his panic, he can't seem to find his ID
card and some other personal documents. Could Zach have stolen them?
Anything is possible with discord. Soon his friend pulls up
and Luke sneaks out the back door. He jumps in
the car and frantically tells his friend to drive fast.
He's alive and that's what matters.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
When I just got out of the gate into the bush.
The worth the costs coming in? You know where mad
your time course Montan.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
After Michaela's murder, Detective Suset Kenotse was brought onto the case.
With her background in the occult related Crimes unit, the
department thought it was only apt for her to evaluate
these suspected Satanic slayings and lend her expertise. Unlike Colonel
di Yager and Captain ben Vick, Detective Susette didn't put
(14:28):
much faith in the notion that Satanists were killing innocent people.
She thought it was far more mundane than that. But
then a strange meeting with Ria. Grunivald challenged that suspicion
this happened before she had been fully briefed on Michaela's murder.
She wanted to hear Rhea's side of things. Rhea requested
(14:48):
that they speak in a public place. The location the diner,
the same place where Cecilia had threatened Riha months before.
This time, Rhea brought along a group the parishioners tact
as spiritual bodyguards.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I were sitting like in a half circle around the table,
and obviously I found that kind of odd. She told
me they are praying because Celia is a which she
can hear everything that Ria says. So while these people
(15:23):
sit there praying, Celia will not be able to year.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Ria was wary of Detective suseid you could hear.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
She trusted no one because Celia installed this in her.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Ria was traumatized. I mean, who wouldn't be. All Ria
could do was lean on her faith.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
She asked me the question, are you a Christian? I said, well,
it's it's irrelevant what religion I am. I'm here to
help you. There was murders that's taken place and apparently
you can help solve them. So it's irrelevant what religion
I am. But okay, I will tell you I am
a Christian. But it's good nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Whether the Satanists the police were after were real or imagined.
Until Detective Susette confronted them, the police department would continue
to fumble justice, so she would have to face the
religious implications of these crimes objectively and head on. Lucky
for the people of Krueger's store, Detective Susette is not
someone who shies away from challenges. She's one of the
(16:29):
few who willingly runs towards them. In this high crime area,
the SAPs was overwhelmed by new cases popping up every day,
so it was weeks before Detective Susette Canozze was even
briefed on the crimes. Finally, she was called in for
a meeting with superiors on the police force to discuss
the case. Colonel de Yager was also at this meeting.
(16:53):
He sat next to her in the department's conference room
and insisted.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
This is satanism. This is satanism because there is no
blood on the scene and they took all the blood.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And I was like, what as we heard last episode.
Colonel the Yager thought that the quantity of blood found
at the scene didn't match the severity of Reginald Ben
Dixon's wounds, which to him implied the killers collected the
blood and drank it or used it in some satanic ritual.
His theory didn't sit well with Detective Susette.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
This guy's lying on the grass. What are you saying?
And I said, sorry, are you? And he says, oh,
I'm Colonel the Yacher. He says he's the expert on satanism.
And I thought, huh, okay, sorry, where are you from?
In my thirteen years of occult related crimes, I have
(17:51):
never met him, never knew about him. Nothing. What he
is saying is absolute.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Bullshit.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Can I say that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Detective Susantte had actual science on her side. A blood
expert she brought in agreed that the blood had clearly
been absorbed by the earth and grass the victim was
lying on, which blew holes into Yager's theories of satanism
and witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And ask him where did you hear this? And he
says no, He's spoken to Conel Yonker, and obviously he
does not know my connection to Colonel Yonker.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Colonel Yonker, founder of the Occult related Crimes unit, was
practically family to Susette.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
And I said, okay, just hang on a minute, and
I went outside fund Colonel Yonker. I said, Colonel, who's
Connel the orcher? He says, I don't know. I said, no, man,
He said he's spoken to you and gave him a
little of the Krugeys doorposis, Oh, that's correct. A guy
(18:54):
phoned me. He says, listen, sir, I know nothing about
the occult and I'm this guys and I need to
get a cross calls in.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
This Detective Susette was wholly convinced if the cops ever
wanted to solve the growing number of murders in Krugersdorp
and all over the country that have to give up
the obsession with Satanism, they were sensationalizing these crimes. But
perhaps that was on purpose. You see. The deeper Susette
(19:24):
waited into the serial murder investigation, the more she began
to notice how incompetent both the Yager and van Vic
were as officers. For example, remember how Mirinda's fingerprints were
found on the newspaper on Rhea's porch. Captain Vin Vick
proposed at the time that the fingerprints could have been planted.
He said prosecutors were concerned that Rhea could have attempted
(19:46):
to frame Mirinda. That was his claim then and he
maintained the explanation years later when speaking to us.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
The reason for them not placing the case was the
fact that the prosecutors said that Mirinda and Rea Runavald
to the neighbors, and the thoughts of the prosecutor at
the time was that real Runivald could have taken the
paper from Mirenda's husband and planted it as evidence.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
To framer, Wow, that's a bit of a reach. However,
according to Detective Canotes, Mirinda was released from police custody
for a procedural bungle. She still gets frustrated when she
recalls how it all went down. Ria could have framed Mirinda.
To her, that sounded like, well.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
All shit, that's not how Mirenda got off. I can
show you look in the.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Doggets That's what Bamvik said to us.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No, he's lying. He just doesn't want to bring that up.
What happened was Van Vike wrote the wrong case number down,
it went to courte and when it came in Courte
Mirenda couldn't be placed in the skies because this guy's
was something about theft or something, and I said, but
she be connected to this guys. Van Weik wrote the
(21:02):
wrong number down and she was let go. That is
what happened.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
With Detective Susette. Officially at the Helm, the police would
be forced to stop chasing imaginary Satanists and it wouldn't
be long before she gathered enough evidence to scare EPD
in hiding.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It was after the Michaila story the police, you know,
sort of came onto the scene and they were very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
While the hysteria of the nineties has long passed, the
fear of Satanism still remains in the ether. Yet, according
to Detective Susette, Canose, journalist Jana Marx, Detective Ben Boysen,
Colonel Kobus Yonker, and almost everyone else we spoke to
the fact that the police jumped to this conclusion that
Satanists were behind the Grizzly murders only set the cops
(22:01):
off course and in doing so placed far more lives
in danger. But Whattyager's assessment entirely wrong. Cecilia claimed a
lineage of witches and that she'd been possessed by Satan,
even becoming his bride. Yet she gathered up a flock
of Christians and made them believe that she was a
vehicle for God's mission. It seems regardless of which side
(22:26):
she was on, Cecilia had a bit of a Messiah complex.
According to her, she had been tempted by Satan, and
her followers were the way out of his grasp. This
was the story. She told them that they were the
key to her salvation, and delivering her from this temptation
ensured all of them a special place in heaven. Together,
(22:48):
they would make God's plans real, even if doing so
men compromising all morals and going against their fellow humans.
It's all extremely convol Cult leaders often keep details so
vague that even their followers have trouble fully understanding what
all is happening. She did this with the orphanage, the
(23:11):
reasons for the murders, and even her own origin story.
So we wanted to get to the bottom of her
actual beliefs. Did she believe in anything at all? Or
was this all simply a way to manipulate others for
her personal gain. Was Satanism just a red herring used
by Cecilia and maybe Diyager too to throw everyone off
(23:32):
the scent or is it possible that what Cecilia was
claiming was true? We asked Luke, who had a front
row seat to her chaos. Was Cecilia ever actually a Satanist?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Freely? Yeah, that's one of those.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Bullship Rhea's mentor. The psychologist F. H. Haavinga agrees with
Luke's assessment, havinga consulted the police on a cult and
satanic cases for the majority of his career.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
This is not psyche, this is something else. And that's
what I said.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
That was my advice to Colonel X, not knowing that
Kuba jon Got said to him exactly the same.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Journalist and author Jana Marx had similar opinions.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
I realized, I mean, I know Christianity, and CIA's idea
of Christianity that she preached wasn't Christianity like Christians would know.
It's almost a fabrication of Christianity. You know, there are
different sects in Satanism. Which one is she following? And
I realized, oh my goodness, she's she's following everything and nothing.
(24:38):
She took a little bit from the earth. From there,
she actually copied even American serial killers, a little bit
of Charles Manson, you can see a bit of Sons
of Samday, and she just called that whole thing Satanism.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Cecilia has studied masters of manipulation, and she knew enough
about the Bible to break together whatever she found to
can't under the effect she was after her twisted form
of faith created a shadowy kingdom, and Cecilia cast herself
as the queen. And as Detective Susette discovered, this kingdom
was built on some careful study.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
When we went to search the apartment, we had a warren.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Early on in her investigation, Detective Susette was granted a
search warrant based on her discussions with Rhea.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I went into Cecilia's room, started looking. I came upon
to Colonel Yonker's occult books that he wrote. It was
hidden the two books.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Suzette page through the books.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I saw on certain pages these little notes made in
it as if she ah this I can use, Okay,
this I can use. It was like she needed info
from the occult to present to the people for them
to believe that she was actually a Satanist. And that
was how I picked up, she knew a thing about
(26:00):
the occult.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Detectives Susette suspicions were confirmed when she spoke to Cecilia.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Started asking her some questions about the occult, and she
couldn't answer me.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Then Cecilia told the detective that she had the power
to shape shift, an ability left over from her days
as a Satanist.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And I said, oh, so you can shape shift. Then
she said yes, she can. Said okay, let me put
you into handcuffs and then you shape shift into a
little bird for me, and then you come out of
my handcuffs. And then suddenly she jumps at the back
of her couch and she sits there and she chips
like a little you know, a little chip sounds. Now
(26:40):
I'm thinking, oh, you look ridiculous, And I said, Celia, really,
I'm talking shape shifting. You're still a human. You know,
you have to shape shift. You have to get out
of my handcuffs. And she couldn't. Then even she told her,
you look ridiculous, get off your couch and answer my question.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That was when Cecilia's facade dropped. She stopped pretending and
acted like nothing had happened. Su said, took off the
handcuffs and continued her line of questioning she.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Was never a Sitanist. Maybe she dabbled as a thirteen
year old, what even, But she knew nothing about occult.
She just was pertaining.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Cecilia's only devotion was siss Cecilia. It was always about her, well,
her and her other fixation.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I just want to do this. There is no satan
mess some understint. It's bad shooting, nothing to do with it.
It's pure revenge. So she lost them act for so.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I suppose the answer to our question is a resounding yes.
The whole Satanism thing became a distraction because that's exactly
what Cecilia wanted. That's how she avoided getting caught. But
what about Colonel the Yager? Was he her willing ally?
Perhaps he was afraid of her, Perhaps she paid him off.
(27:59):
Perhaps he was just friends with Drees, Cecilia's husband, and
was just doing his friend a favor. Whatever the case,
something wasn't quite right. When questioned about his involvement after
the fact, Drees denied knowing anything about EP these activities,
But journalist Jana Marx thinks this is a stretch.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
He did work, not shifts. At the time. So the
possibility that he wasn't away of everything going on, but
he's deafnically aware of some of it.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And here's Kobus Yonker again, Suzette's mentor and founder of
the Occult Related Crimes Unit up till now.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I will never believe that he didn't know anything that
was going on.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
He denied everything.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
He doesn't He didn't even know that Cecilia was involved.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
That's the biggest life. I mean, he had to know something.
It was all going on right under his nose. Plus
Drees benefited from all the money that was coming in,
the money that was certainly not going to an orphan.
Suzanne and Ben put it into perspective for us.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Reece was a sergeant. Cecilia did not work. So sergeant's
salary is to laugh about it's very low. Now you
step into this three bedroom place, what'd you see? First
thing you see is these two kids playing on a
huge TV, big screen TV. Now, I'm a captain. I
(29:28):
cannot afford that.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
His wife buys him big skinn TV, she buys him.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Xbox, she buys him a motorbike. She doesn't work, she
doesn't have income, and he doesn't ask a where's the
money coming from?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And that money would soon run out. It's now late
February twenty thirteen. Our friend Luke has been living in
an abject terror for months. After his first attempt to
work with the police failed, Luke tried again. He heard
there was a new officer overseeing the investigation. When Luke
(30:04):
met with Susette, he told her it was dire that
they act fast. Susette immediately reached out to Joshua and
told him to go into hiding. Luke told her everything
he knew, including how do Yager left him high and
dry after the tape recording debacle, and there was something
else suspicious. Colonel di Yager visited Cecilia's place in the
(30:25):
weeks leading up to Michaela's murder.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Those there about three to four times a week, and
he always took gifts.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Plus, as far as Luke could tell, the cops had
barely investigated Mikayla's death.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
This colonel never even took fingerprints or anything at Macaylin's
cos where she was planed.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Luke met with Detective Susette at a restaurant and went
over the evidence he'd gathered. He told her about the
Whig and the recordings of epd's candid confessions. He'd brought
his friend Aria along, the one who had first introduced
him to Cecilia. But then Luke was the victim of
a suspiciously timed theft while he was meeting with Detective Suzette.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Sitting at a restaurant our conqatch startling with all our
stuff and there were some evident pieces that he wanted
to give to us. How the whole carqua's time that
I'm absolutely sure it's planned.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Luckily, the tape recording of the murder confessions wasn't in
the car. He had already handed them over to his
friend Ariya, who had been supporting him through the sting
operation and helping him communicate with Diager. Despite what had happened,
she gave the tape to Diager, hoping he would get
it into the right hands. Luke did bring Susette the
(31:44):
wig he'd found in Zach and Machayla's house and laid
out the whole story of all that he had witnessed.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
To Suzette, fourteen fifteen pages of f and David telling
me exactly how the group works. And then he was
asked to help this conspiracy of murder with Rhea's son.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
He was confident that tape was damning. Both he and
Aria had listened to it before it landed in the
yager's hands.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
We took the tape and listened to it. There was
nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Unfortunately, by the time that tape made it to court,
it could no longer be played.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And it got too courte It was damaged. They couldn't
use it. So I just this old saw for me
that the police didn't follow up and do their.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Job, except for Detective Susette.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I knows she did an utmost based but if they
just listened and did something, we could have prevented the
rest of the murders kind and should have been the
last one, and I would have stopped there.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Based on the evidence Luke handed her. Detective Susette felt
confident the case would go to trial. She brought it
to the state's attorney and it was passed up the
chain of command.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
She agrees that she's going to put this through to
the senior style Avoca to say, give me the rast Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Detective Susette assumed the serial murder case would be a
clear priority. While she waited for a decision on the
arrest warrants. Arrangements were made to protect Luke.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Sothing we told us Stormy or Trench, we can give
us with this station to protective custody.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Luke finally felt safe out of Cecilia's reach. But then,
and yet another unthinkable twist, the senior state attorney claimed
there wasn't enough evidence to move forward on the case.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I just said enough, There's not enough evidence.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Despite everything Detective Susette had Luke's testimony, the recorded confessions,
the wig, the various eyewitnesses, she was denied an arrest warrant.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
The senior Stigne attorney said, no, it's not consistent, like
aled wasn't consistent anybody in there. I'd mind going to
have two lives at it consistent.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Everyone was floored.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
It shocked me. It shocked that the other investigating officer.
It shocked the state attorney. It was a decision, the
senior stated Atturney made that nobody knows why.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Detective Susette argued that the members of VPD could be
arrested on the charge of conspiracy to murder, then once
they had them in custody, the police could find other
charges or at least leads that they could follow to
get out in front of the murders before they continued,
but the state attorney claimed that they didn't want to
risk losing the prime suspects if their arrest tactic didn't work.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
They said, no, then we're going to jeopardize the murder.
We rather take them on the murder.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
In one of our earliest interviews with Detective Susette, we
asked her about how she dealt with the fact that
seven more deaths would occur before anyone would get justice.
This was actually a huge part of the reason that
she move to speak with us and help tell this story.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I don't think there's a lot of people out there
that actually knows this, and that's a huge thing for
me thinking about the families of number five to eleven.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Now a new question hung in the air. Could Cecilia's
reach have extended to the Senior State's Attorney's office. She
couldn't be that powerful, could she. On the next episode
of Queen Havoc, eventually there was no money in emm.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
He introduced the Mayers as victims for a robbery because
he was under the impression they keep millions hidden in a.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Safe in cash zach Quin berserk and they had to
tell him, listen, you have to finish now because we
need to get out of.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Yet something really that is going to happen in the
near future.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
School Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Takeny,
Julia Chriscau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(36:20):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associate producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Mellman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(36:44):
Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook. Brenda Stein was read by
Angelique Pretorius. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,
Brandon Barr, Jennifer ta Keeney, and Kurt Kupachick. We want
to thank all of those who so generously welcomed us
in South Africa and shared their stories. Were incredibly grateful
(37:07):
to you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic
these events are for the victims and their families. Please
respect their privacy. If you or someone you know has
been affected by cult behaviors, there are resources available, including
Voices for Dignity at Christine Murray dot com.
School of Humans. This show follows the investigation of serial
murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Late October twenty twelve, the trees were just beginning to bud.
A series of homicides were now sending shockwaves through the
small town of Krugerstorp, South Africa. The local papers run
stories about satanic murders, citing police reports of brutal, seemingly
ceremonial scenes. No charges were ever filed against Ria Grunevald,
(00:44):
but as the trees blossomed, so did the doubts and
the hearts and minds of Rhea's friends and confidants. Rhea
couldn't leave her house without being harassed, so she used
her time in isolation to repair her relationship with her son, Joshua.
Rhea's years of devotion to Cecilia left Joshua feeling neglected
and resentful. Rhea felt determined to bridge the divide between them. Coincidentally,
(01:10):
that same October, Joshua became the latest fixation for Cecilia Stein.
Since revenge against Ria was her primary goal, she could
find no better target for her wrath. By this time,
Luke the infiltrator was being primed to officially become a
member of Electus Perdeis. He was spending a lot of
(01:33):
time with Cecilia and Zach and the others. Luke's primary
residence was out of town, but since he had worked
in Kruger's door, he liked to stay with his friends
Zach and Michaela. The three had become close. Luke had
also been an acquaintance of Natasha Berger and Joy Burnside.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I was murdered. I couldn't and I looked. I didn't
have to part with it because it feels like everybody
in ron Jews keeping money.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Believing that Zach was devastated, Luke stuck around to help
his friend grieve the loss of his wife, even if
it meant staying in the same house where she was killed.
Luke found Zach to be strangely unaffected by his wife's murder.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That the man didn't even cry about his wife.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Everyone had loved Michaela, Luke concluded. In her absence, Luke
found himself slowly drawn into Cecilia's orbit. Then one day
she popped the question.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
She asked me, do you think zackscribable of murder?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Luke had growing doubts about Zach, but not enough to
label him a murderer.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Saw below. I don't know, I don't think so, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Cecilia assured him that Zach was a loyal soldier in
her army, willing to do whatever it took to carry
out God's word.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So she told me about how he killed Pendson with
the X namon started every care program.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Right before his unbelieving eyes, it re enacted the murder.
Luke was horrified. His worst fears confirmed his friend Zach
was indeed a killer, and now Luke was suddenly profoundly
scared for his own life. He'd gotten too close to Cecilia,
and like Mikayla, he also knew too much.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And then the whole things started to make sense to you.
What's going on and all every boys.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Involved from School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is
Queen Havoc and her murder cult. I'm your host, Kurt Kubachak,
Episode five, Never Can You Run. One night in Cecilia's small,
(04:01):
dimly little apartment, Zach Valentine tells the group he's received
a sign, a vision just like the one Cecilia had
about Natasha Ria Grunivald's son, Joshua should be their next target.
Then Marinda chimes in. Turns out she also received a
sign about Joshua's future on Earth. This tract with the plans,
(04:23):
Cecilia already started plotting to hit Ria Grunivald where it
would hurt the most.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So they cornered me, and they say that I must
be Zach's right hand man. I must help him to
murder Joshua.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
In a matter of months, Zach had evolved from husband,
friend and frequent host to a cold, calculating murderer, and
Luke was being groomed to join their sadistic form of worship.
To Cecilia's steying, I keep.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Myself cool that in the inside I was ripped the
thought and day's night time to go with cry and stuff.
Then I must get into this guide, thinking and praying
every night how to avoid this.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Luke was having a crisis, realizing that his initial impulse
to infiltrate the group was a bit naive. He placed
himself in the crosshairs of real killers, and by the
time he came face to face with this reality, the
one in which he might very likely be murdered, he
was in too deep. Now he was spending his nights
(05:27):
in Zach's passenger seat, stalking their next victim and trying
desperately to think of ways to thwart Zach.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Every night they went through and spied on this guy.
Are we What's talk? A couple of times, driving to
his house, and then he played volleyball day in Randburgh.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Jana Marx's book describes EPD placing hidden cameras in the
trees outside Joshua's home. One evening, Zach trailed him into
a bar and slipped something in his drink. J Zach's dismay.
It seemed to have no effect, but they were getting
(06:09):
closer and the walls were closing in on.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Luke to Nithis tonight, They're gonna kill him and then
I'll just come up with excuses or all do anything
in my pala to something.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
When Joshua's active, outgoing lifestyle made him hard to track,
EPD decided to try the same tactic they'd used with
Ben Dixon. They would make an appointment. Luke made the
first call to Internet Solutions, the company Joshua worked for,
and requested a house call, but Luke couldn't get him
to nail down a time, which makes sense. Joshua worked
(06:46):
in systems, I not a help desk. So Marinda tried next.
She said she needed help connecting her home WiFi. Joshua
was polite, but instead of agreen to come over, he
referred her to one of his peers. As EPD ramped
up its tactics, Luke kept trying to stall.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I was doing everything in my power that I've worked
with people. Luckily they believed all the bullshit I feeded them.
It's almost like a split personality in the day when
I'm with him, I'm this type of person, but I'm
myself in.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Horrible Meanwhile, Joshua had become a bit suspicious something about
this onslaught of house call requests felled off. Luke wanted
no part in the murder, so he tried to get
out of it by having an honest conversation with Cecilia.
Luke thought he was dealing with a rational mind, and
(07:44):
how do you think Cecilia responded well? She returned to
scripture reminded them that they were God's soldiers, following in
the footsteps of King David. Luke later testified in court
that zach Once threatened his life After Luke questioned the
way Cecilia and EPD conducted themselves, he just warm.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You know, I started thinking like his wife ing it up.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Now, both Luke and Joshua's only hope for survival depended
on Luke's bravery. He desperately needed to collect evidence to
prove they were planning this murder. Then he could go
to the police, but he had to do it before
the hammers, knives, and axes came out for him.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I didn't know what to do anymore. I just paid
and I asked the Lord. It gave me strength and
everything and league meet because I'm gonna get caught. I'm
gonna die like Makaya.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Court hearings revealed that Cecilia ordered LaRue to dig three graves,
all in different locations. That way, EPD had options for
where to bury Joshua's body. Luke, the infiltrator, was in
over his head.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You are so scared, but you can't sherwance. She needed
Suffici reaching in your insight, because if they can get
a glimpse of something, especially as a cilio, is that
it's game over for you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
All systems were go, and Luke wanted out despite his
ever present fears, Luke kept searching for evidence to incriminate
the members of EPD. He needed hard proof. Luckily, finding
it didn't take too long.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
The person that murdered McKayla, who Wonner White a we
equipland and I found that thing Zacks couplet.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It was time Luke went to the police.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We ne got very hot. That's when I wented it.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The tip of that detective is Colonel the Yager, the
one who was so fixated on the Satanic angle. The
Yager was Luke's only contact in the Cruise Door Police
at this time.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So I met this colonel one day and he gave
me a type recorder because if they can get the
confession on tape, it's a media erased.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's now December twenty twelve, summer in South Africa. Dusk.
Luke is now working under cover for the police, summoning
all the courage he can muster. His plan is to
record the killers from EPD, get them to confess to
all four murders, Natasha and Joy, Pastor Reginald Bendixon and MICHAELA. Valentine.
(10:39):
Once he gets them on tape, he'll step outside of
Cassana Flats and signal to the police. At least those
are the orders Luke's been given.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I had a pocketing my least rom of my biker jacket.
The recorder was face.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He arrives at Cecilia's place. Nothing out of the order.
They meet their regularly. Luke plays it cool at first.
He has a plan to get them talking.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I leaded this whole conversation, and we spoke about everything.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You know, Luke reaches the subject of murder. It's a
risky move. He asks how they did it. True to
their nature as amateur cutthroats, Cecilia, Zach, and Mirinda openly confess,
boasting about the kills.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
What everyone day. I got everybody to confess about the
murders and everything, and I planned the next murder.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's right, all four murders, and the plans to kill
Rhea's son Joshua. As the night wears on, a bad
feeling creeps over Luke. This shroud of anxiety and adrenaline
peeks as he looks around the room and he realizes
(11:53):
Zach is missing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
While I was talking to Cecilia, we saw this appeared.
And now are they work? And you just a little voice,
he said, Bryan. He just just toat your stuff and go,
Just get out of here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Luke immediately wonders, did I ask too many questions? Is
a silly onomy? Is Zach out there waiting for me
in the dark?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
No, I knew, what's my time?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I need to go now, Luke makes up a reason
for why he has to bow out for the night.
With the tape still rolling in his pocket, Luke steps outside.
You have expects a flurry of police activity, but the
night is quiet.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Now wein' outside leaves the y and he was indeed Haldin.
I added one and one to gear.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Luke stands at the top of the Casana Flats complex steps.
His breath quickens. On his way down the stairs, he
glimpses a sign that reads danger. It's a private property sign.
He's read it a million times, but this time it's different.
That's when Luke hears that little voice once again.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I turned from my life. I was almost murdered th line.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
First, he had to go back to Zach and Michaela's
to get his stuff, but he only had his motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So I got on my bike. I'll drive his Zack's house.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Fear rushes through him as he steps in his Zach's apartment.
Zach isn't there, thank god. Luke springs into action, calling
a friend to come get him. While he grabs what
he can took.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Almost stuff like the get he like a split segund.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In his panic, he can't seem to find his ID
card and some other personal documents. Could Zach have stolen them?
Anything is possible with discord. Soon his friend pulls up
and Luke sneaks out the back door. He jumps in
the car and frantically tells his friend to drive fast.
He's alive and that's what matters.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
When I just got out of the gate into the bush.
The worth the costs coming in? You know where mad
your time course Montan.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
After Michaela's murder, Detective Suset Kenotse was brought onto the case.
With her background in the occult related Crimes unit, the
department thought it was only apt for her to evaluate
these suspected Satanic slayings and lend her expertise. Unlike Colonel
di Yager and Captain ben Vick, Detective Susette didn't put
(14:28):
much faith in the notion that Satanists were killing innocent people.
She thought it was far more mundane than that. But
then a strange meeting with Ria. Grunivald challenged that suspicion
this happened before she had been fully briefed on Michaela's murder.
She wanted to hear Rhea's side of things. Rhea requested
(14:48):
that they speak in a public place. The location the diner,
the same place where Cecilia had threatened Riha months before.
This time, Rhea brought along a group the parishioners tact
as spiritual bodyguards.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I were sitting like in a half circle around the table,
and obviously I found that kind of odd. She told
me they are praying because Celia is a which she
can hear everything that Ria says. So while these people
(15:23):
sit there praying, Celia will not be able to year.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Ria was wary of Detective suseid you could hear.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
She trusted no one because Celia installed this in her.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Ria was traumatized. I mean, who wouldn't be. All Ria
could do was lean on her faith.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
She asked me the question, are you a Christian? I said, well,
it's it's irrelevant what religion I am. I'm here to
help you. There was murders that's taken place and apparently
you can help solve them. So it's irrelevant what religion
I am. But okay, I will tell you I am
a Christian. But it's good nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Whether the Satanists the police were after were real or imagined.
Until Detective Susette confronted them, the police department would continue
to fumble justice, so she would have to face the
religious implications of these crimes objectively and head on. Lucky
for the people of Krueger's store, Detective Susette is not
someone who shies away from challenges. She's one of the
(16:29):
few who willingly runs towards them. In this high crime area,
the SAPs was overwhelmed by new cases popping up every day,
so it was weeks before Detective Susette Canozze was even
briefed on the crimes. Finally, she was called in for
a meeting with superiors on the police force to discuss
the case. Colonel de Yager was also at this meeting.
(16:53):
He sat next to her in the department's conference room
and insisted.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
This is satanism. This is satanism because there is no
blood on the scene and they took all the blood.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And I was like, what as we heard last episode.
Colonel the Yager thought that the quantity of blood found
at the scene didn't match the severity of Reginald Ben
Dixon's wounds, which to him implied the killers collected the
blood and drank it or used it in some satanic ritual.
His theory didn't sit well with Detective Susette.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
This guy's lying on the grass. What are you saying?
And I said, sorry, are you? And he says, oh,
I'm Colonel the Yacher. He says he's the expert on satanism.
And I thought, huh, okay, sorry, where are you from?
In my thirteen years of occult related crimes, I have
(17:51):
never met him, never knew about him. Nothing. What he
is saying is absolute.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Bullshit.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Can I say that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Detective Susantte had actual science on her side. A blood
expert she brought in agreed that the blood had clearly
been absorbed by the earth and grass the victim was
lying on, which blew holes into Yager's theories of satanism
and witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And ask him where did you hear this? And he
says no, He's spoken to Conel Yonker, and obviously he
does not know my connection to Colonel Yonker.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Colonel Yonker, founder of the Occult related Crimes unit, was
practically family to Susette.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
And I said, okay, just hang on a minute, and
I went outside fund Colonel Yonker. I said, Colonel, who's
Connel the orcher? He says, I don't know. I said, no, man,
He said he's spoken to you and gave him a
little of the Krugeys doorposis, Oh, that's correct. A guy
(18:54):
phoned me. He says, listen, sir, I know nothing about
the occult and I'm this guys and I need to
get a cross calls in.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
This Detective Susette was wholly convinced if the cops ever
wanted to solve the growing number of murders in Krugersdorp
and all over the country that have to give up
the obsession with Satanism, they were sensationalizing these crimes. But
perhaps that was on purpose. You see. The deeper Susette
(19:24):
waited into the serial murder investigation, the more she began
to notice how incompetent both the Yager and van Vic
were as officers. For example, remember how Mirinda's fingerprints were
found on the newspaper on Rhea's porch. Captain Vin Vick
proposed at the time that the fingerprints could have been planted.
He said prosecutors were concerned that Rhea could have attempted
(19:46):
to frame Mirinda. That was his claim then and he
maintained the explanation years later when speaking to us.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
The reason for them not placing the case was the
fact that the prosecutors said that Mirinda and Rea Runavald
to the neighbors, and the thoughts of the prosecutor at
the time was that real Runivald could have taken the
paper from Mirenda's husband and planted it as evidence.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
To framer, Wow, that's a bit of a reach. However,
according to Detective Canotes, Mirinda was released from police custody
for a procedural bungle. She still gets frustrated when she
recalls how it all went down. Ria could have framed Mirinda.
To her, that sounded like, well.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
All shit, that's not how Mirenda got off. I can
show you look in the.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Doggets That's what Bamvik said to us.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No, he's lying. He just doesn't want to bring that up.
What happened was Van Vike wrote the wrong case number down,
it went to courte and when it came in Courte
Mirenda couldn't be placed in the skies because this guy's
was something about theft or something, and I said, but
she be connected to this guys. Van Weik wrote the
(21:02):
wrong number down and she was let go. That is
what happened.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
With Detective Susette. Officially at the Helm, the police would
be forced to stop chasing imaginary Satanists and it wouldn't
be long before she gathered enough evidence to scare EPD
in hiding.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It was after the Michaila story the police, you know,
sort of came onto the scene and they were very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
While the hysteria of the nineties has long passed, the
fear of Satanism still remains in the ether. Yet, according
to Detective Susette, Canose, journalist Jana Marx, Detective Ben Boysen,
Colonel Kobus Yonker, and almost everyone else we spoke to
the fact that the police jumped to this conclusion that
Satanists were behind the Grizzly murders only set the cops
(22:01):
off course and in doing so placed far more lives
in danger. But Whattyager's assessment entirely wrong. Cecilia claimed a
lineage of witches and that she'd been possessed by Satan,
even becoming his bride. Yet she gathered up a flock
of Christians and made them believe that she was a
vehicle for God's mission. It seems regardless of which side
(22:26):
she was on, Cecilia had a bit of a Messiah complex.
According to her, she had been tempted by Satan, and
her followers were the way out of his grasp. This
was the story. She told them that they were the
key to her salvation, and delivering her from this temptation
ensured all of them a special place in heaven. Together,
(22:48):
they would make God's plans real, even if doing so
men compromising all morals and going against their fellow humans.
It's all extremely convol Cult leaders often keep details so
vague that even their followers have trouble fully understanding what
all is happening. She did this with the orphanage, the
(23:11):
reasons for the murders, and even her own origin story.
So we wanted to get to the bottom of her
actual beliefs. Did she believe in anything at all? Or
was this all simply a way to manipulate others for
her personal gain. Was Satanism just a red herring used
by Cecilia and maybe Diyager too to throw everyone off
(23:32):
the scent or is it possible that what Cecilia was
claiming was true? We asked Luke, who had a front
row seat to her chaos. Was Cecilia ever actually a Satanist?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Freely? Yeah, that's one of those.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Bullship Rhea's mentor. The psychologist F. H. Haavinga agrees with
Luke's assessment, havinga consulted the police on a cult and
satanic cases for the majority of his career.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
This is not psyche, this is something else. And that's
what I said.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
That was my advice to Colonel X, not knowing that
Kuba jon Got said to him exactly the same.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Journalist and author Jana Marx had similar opinions.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
I realized, I mean, I know Christianity, and CIA's idea
of Christianity that she preached wasn't Christianity like Christians would know.
It's almost a fabrication of Christianity. You know, there are
different sects in Satanism. Which one is she following? And
I realized, oh my goodness, she's she's following everything and nothing.
(24:38):
She took a little bit from the earth. From there,
she actually copied even American serial killers, a little bit
of Charles Manson, you can see a bit of Sons
of Samday, and she just called that whole thing Satanism.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Cecilia has studied masters of manipulation, and she knew enough
about the Bible to break together whatever she found to
can't under the effect she was after her twisted form
of faith created a shadowy kingdom, and Cecilia cast herself
as the queen. And as Detective Susette discovered, this kingdom
was built on some careful study.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
When we went to search the apartment, we had a warren.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Early on in her investigation, Detective Susette was granted a
search warrant based on her discussions with Rhea.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I went into Cecilia's room, started looking. I came upon
to Colonel Yonker's occult books that he wrote. It was
hidden the two books.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Suzette page through the books.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I saw on certain pages these little notes made in
it as if she ah this I can use, Okay,
this I can use. It was like she needed info
from the occult to present to the people for them
to believe that she was actually a Satanist. And that
was how I picked up, she knew a thing about
(26:00):
the occult.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Detectives Susette suspicions were confirmed when she spoke to Cecilia.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Started asking her some questions about the occult, and she
couldn't answer me.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Then Cecilia told the detective that she had the power
to shape shift, an ability left over from her days
as a Satanist.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And I said, oh, so you can shape shift. Then
she said yes, she can. Said okay, let me put
you into handcuffs and then you shape shift into a
little bird for me, and then you come out of
my handcuffs. And then suddenly she jumps at the back
of her couch and she sits there and she chips
like a little you know, a little chip sounds. Now
(26:40):
I'm thinking, oh, you look ridiculous, And I said, Celia, really,
I'm talking shape shifting. You're still a human. You know,
you have to shape shift. You have to get out
of my handcuffs. And she couldn't. Then even she told her,
you look ridiculous, get off your couch and answer my question.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That was when Cecilia's facade dropped. She stopped pretending and
acted like nothing had happened. Su said, took off the
handcuffs and continued her line of questioning she.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Was never a Sitanist. Maybe she dabbled as a thirteen
year old, what even, But she knew nothing about occult.
She just was pertaining.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Cecilia's only devotion was siss Cecilia. It was always about her, well,
her and her other fixation.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I just want to do this. There is no satan
mess some understint. It's bad shooting, nothing to do with it.
It's pure revenge. So she lost them act for so.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I suppose the answer to our question is a resounding yes.
The whole Satanism thing became a distraction because that's exactly
what Cecilia wanted. That's how she avoided getting caught. But
what about Colonel the Yager? Was he her willing ally?
Perhaps he was afraid of her, Perhaps she paid him off.
(27:59):
Perhaps he was just friends with Drees, Cecilia's husband, and
was just doing his friend a favor. Whatever the case,
something wasn't quite right. When questioned about his involvement after
the fact, Drees denied knowing anything about EP these activities,
But journalist Jana Marx thinks this is a stretch.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
He did work, not shifts. At the time. So the
possibility that he wasn't away of everything going on, but
he's deafnically aware of some of it.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And here's Kobus Yonker again, Suzette's mentor and founder of
the Occult Related Crimes Unit up till now.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I will never believe that he didn't know anything that
was going on.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
He denied everything.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
He doesn't He didn't even know that Cecilia was involved.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
That's the biggest life. I mean, he had to know something.
It was all going on right under his nose. Plus
Drees benefited from all the money that was coming in,
the money that was certainly not going to an orphan.
Suzanne and Ben put it into perspective for us.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Reece was a sergeant. Cecilia did not work. So sergeant's
salary is to laugh about it's very low. Now you
step into this three bedroom place, what'd you see? First
thing you see is these two kids playing on a
huge TV, big screen TV. Now, I'm a captain. I
(29:28):
cannot afford that.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
His wife buys him big skinn TV, she buys him.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Xbox, she buys him a motorbike. She doesn't work, she
doesn't have income, and he doesn't ask a where's the
money coming from?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And that money would soon run out. It's now late
February twenty thirteen. Our friend Luke has been living in
an abject terror for months. After his first attempt to
work with the police failed, Luke tried again. He heard
there was a new officer overseeing the investigation. When Luke
(30:04):
met with Susette, he told her it was dire that
they act fast. Susette immediately reached out to Joshua and
told him to go into hiding. Luke told her everything
he knew, including how do Yager left him high and
dry after the tape recording debacle, and there was something
else suspicious. Colonel di Yager visited Cecilia's place in the
(30:25):
weeks leading up to Michaela's murder.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Those there about three to four times a week, and
he always took gifts.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Plus, as far as Luke could tell, the cops had
barely investigated Mikayla's death.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
This colonel never even took fingerprints or anything at Macaylin's
cos where she was planed.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Luke met with Detective Susette at a restaurant and went
over the evidence he'd gathered. He told her about the
Whig and the recordings of epd's candid confessions. He'd brought
his friend Aria along, the one who had first introduced
him to Cecilia. But then Luke was the victim of
a suspiciously timed theft while he was meeting with Detective Suzette.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Sitting at a restaurant our conqatch startling with all our
stuff and there were some evident pieces that he wanted
to give to us. How the whole carqua's time that
I'm absolutely sure it's planned.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Luckily, the tape recording of the murder confessions wasn't in
the car. He had already handed them over to his
friend Ariya, who had been supporting him through the sting
operation and helping him communicate with Diager. Despite what had happened,
she gave the tape to Diager, hoping he would get
it into the right hands. Luke did bring Susette the
(31:44):
wig he'd found in Zach and Machayla's house and laid
out the whole story of all that he had witnessed.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
To Suzette, fourteen fifteen pages of f and David telling
me exactly how the group works. And then he was
asked to help this conspiracy of murder with Rhea's son.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
He was confident that tape was damning. Both he and
Aria had listened to it before it landed in the
yager's hands.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
We took the tape and listened to it. There was
nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Unfortunately, by the time that tape made it to court,
it could no longer be played.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And it got too courte It was damaged. They couldn't
use it. So I just this old saw for me
that the police didn't follow up and do their.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Job, except for Detective Susette.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I knows she did an utmost based but if they
just listened and did something, we could have prevented the
rest of the murders kind and should have been the
last one, and I would have stopped there.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Based on the evidence Luke handed her. Detective Susette felt
confident the case would go to trial. She brought it
to the state's attorney and it was passed up the
chain of command.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
She agrees that she's going to put this through to
the senior style Avoca to say, give me the rast Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Detective Susette assumed the serial murder case would be a
clear priority. While she waited for a decision on the
arrest warrants. Arrangements were made to protect Luke.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Sothing we told us Stormy or Trench, we can give
us with this station to protective custody.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Luke finally felt safe out of Cecilia's reach. But then,
and yet another unthinkable twist, the senior state attorney claimed
there wasn't enough evidence to move forward on the case.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I just said enough, There's not enough evidence.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Despite everything Detective Susette had Luke's testimony, the recorded confessions,
the wig, the various eyewitnesses, she was denied an arrest warrant.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
The senior Stigne attorney said, no, it's not consistent, like
aled wasn't consistent anybody in there. I'd mind going to
have two lives at it consistent.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Everyone was floored.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
It shocked me. It shocked that the other investigating officer.
It shocked the state attorney. It was a decision, the
senior stated Atturney made that nobody knows why.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Detective Susette argued that the members of VPD could be
arrested on the charge of conspiracy to murder, then once
they had them in custody, the police could find other
charges or at least leads that they could follow to
get out in front of the murders before they continued,
but the state attorney claimed that they didn't want to
risk losing the prime suspects if their arrest tactic didn't work.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
They said, no, then we're going to jeopardize the murder.
We rather take them on the murder.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
In one of our earliest interviews with Detective Susette, we
asked her about how she dealt with the fact that
seven more deaths would occur before anyone would get justice.
This was actually a huge part of the reason that
she move to speak with us and help tell this story.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I don't think there's a lot of people out there
that actually knows this, and that's a huge thing for
me thinking about the families of number five to eleven.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Now a new question hung in the air. Could Cecilia's
reach have extended to the Senior State's Attorney's office. She
couldn't be that powerful, could she. On the next episode
of Queen Havoc, eventually there was no money in emm.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
He introduced the Mayers as victims for a robbery because
he was under the impression they keep millions hidden in a.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Safe in cash zach Quin berserk and they had to
tell him, listen, you have to finish now because we
need to get out of.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Yet something really that is going to happen in the
near future.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
School Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Takeny,
Julia Chriscau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(36:20):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associate producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Mellman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(36:44):
Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook. Brenda Stein was read by
Angelique Pretorius. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,
Brandon Barr, Jennifer ta Keeney, and Kurt Kupachick. We want
to thank all of those who so generously welcomed us
in South Africa and shared their stories. Were incredibly grateful
(37:07):
to you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic
these events are for the victims and their families. Please
respect their privacy. If you or someone you know has
been affected by cult behaviors, there are resources available, including
Voices for Dignity at Christine Murray dot com.
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