September 27, 2023 • 42 mins
Funky George Brown of Kool & The Gang tells Questlove Supreme about an upbringing in Jersey City that made him fearless and creative at the same time. George recalls the band's early years, and describes what made this group so versatile, gifted, and cutting-edge.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm your host, Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
With me, we have the strongest, the strongest team in
the land, of course, Team Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Are you walking on the moon right now, Sugar Steve?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
That's correct, Yes, the moon.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's where you're at. Okay, you're walking on the moon.
We also gotta a lie you with us.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
What up, Quest Love Supreme? How are you doing? I said,
is this the name now?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Because she was like, welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I
am Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes you are, and you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Are I I embodied the tired.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Sorry, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sorry, Uh, I know he is working extremely hard. Future episodes.
We're getting ready for another round of in person episodes
for the for course of Supreme.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So you know, oh yeah, l a edition. Yes, it's
going to be exciting. Fon tikeolo, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Man?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
New bombs on this?
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Man? I gotta say, yeah, man, thank you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Where did this come from? What you know? You gotta
you gotta like me?
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Where?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Where where did this?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The spark of an idea come from?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Who?
Speaker 6 (01:22):
And I you know, we've just been for the last
couple of years, been working really hard, like on the documentary.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
And then also you know, playing a block party made
in Durham, uh October seventh. But uh but nah man,
we just I missed the chair, bro, I missed being
in the chair, I missed recording, and so were just like, yo,
let's just go cook up, Like we just wanted to
have some fun and just you know, let them go.
Those records they're out now. Wish me well, Glory Glory
is out on all platforms. But those records ain't even
(01:49):
they ain't even three weeks O. Maybe a little over
two weeks though, like they fresh fresh. We just finish
Wow fresh fresh after other all right, that's just exciting
to me. That's more exciting and recording something and where
for like you know, however long making a year cycle
to get it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Nah, bro, cook it up, let it go. That's what's up, yo.
Today is going to be an awesome episode. I will
say that for.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
The Wow six, for the last six decades, our Guests
has literally been the heartbeat of Jersey City's finest musical unit.
Jersey City is probably the most diverse unit. They pretty
much changed music numerous numerous times. Kind of going through
(02:36):
a metamorphosis period really not afforded to any artist, maybe
close to Miles Davis in terms of going through different phases.
Of course, you know, they're late sixties, early seventies soul phase.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And then we got the.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Mid seventies funk phase and then exploding into the disco scene,
adjusting to it well enough to guard them a Grammy
Album of the Year, not for their participation in the
inescapable Mammoth soundtrack for Saturday Night Fever and then riding
off successfully into the eighties with just an unprecedented streak
(03:15):
of really perfect dance pop classics. In my opinion, this
unit known as Cool and the Gang is the dream
as far as legacies can turn like, dabbling in many genres,
and of course, with this being the hip hop's fiftieth
anniversary and our brother Lovlily known as Funky George being
(03:40):
part of the unit that's probably the most sampled I
didn't realize that Coolnan Gang is the most sampled band
in hip hop. That's an honor, so that means that
they also changed hip hop. What we have him here today.
We hope to go.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Through his history and his legacy.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
The One and only Funky George, Funky George Brown of
Cool the Gang.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Welcome to course, loves degree, How you doing.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Nice to be here, quess.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Great to have you. Where are you talking to us
right now? From where are you?
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Woodland Hills, California? The valley? Okay, you know Calabasa's Tasannah
that area Woodland.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Hills, so literally Hollywood Swing. And how how long have
you been out there?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I've been here thirty seven years? You know. My band
members would actually say when you're coming back home, when
you're going back to Jersey, you know, So it was
used to be a running joke. But love it out here.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Right before the pandemic, we were privy to a series
of animated shorts that basically told the story of the
band's origins and their very beginning before they got a
record deal, these little animated minustitials, and to me that
(04:59):
was one of the most at least as as a
as a music head, that was one of the most
incredible things I've ever seen, because, you know, a lot
of the favorites that we grow up with really aren't
afforded much information, especially for like groups in the seventies
and eighties, like you guys are given the fair level
playing field of your you know, your your peers that
(05:20):
get access to mainstream press. So I knew nothing about
the history of the band. You guys were like rigorously
honest about your beginnings.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You know, when we're talking about Cool in the gang,
that Cool was like a leader of a gang. You know,
most most most bands I know, starting church and all
that stuff. So well, first of all, where where were
you born? I assume that is Jersey City. I don't know,
I could be wrong. Okay, that's where you were born, Yes, sir,
so you were first generation Northeast family. Most most soul
(05:54):
acts I know come from the South and then they
migrate up north. But you were born in Jersey City,
Jersey City, okay, So could you just give me a
description of what Jersey City was like for you in
your childhood, at least for those formative years before you
started discovering your talent.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
You know, we're going back one hundred and fifty years,
you know, so it's kind of hard for me to remember.
You know what you can't remember the blacksmith shorting Norse
the shoes, right, right right, you know, and the guy's
pumping the water when it was a fire so long ago.
(06:34):
But Sugar, he's in jerseys He's in Steve Right. Hoboken.
Jersey City and Hoboken were very alike at that time,
Jersey City being the second largest city in New Jersey,
it was a basically a working class town, quiet working
(06:56):
class town.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I got.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I got to put more respect on it because I think,
you know, I mean, I'm not a New Yorker, even
though I've been here long enough to kind of claim it.
I think I should be here for twenty years before
I say I'm a New Yorker. But you know, a
lot of times, even as a Philadelphia, Jersey's just like
over there, you know, from New York, Jersey, Jersey's over there.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
The amount of talent that came out of Jersey City
and New Jersey is a mind boggling. I mean, you
got count Basie. It's just for one like Sonata, you know,
sa On.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
This is Jersey City, Jersey.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
This is just Jersey. But out of Jersey City too.
You got people like Nick Adams, Brenda Vercrow Cooler, Ni Gang,
Roy Hamilton. It just goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Roy Hamilton, Roy Hamilton's don't let go Roy Hamilton. Okay.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Yeah. So there's a pluffer of talents that came out
of Jersey City, proper, the Duprees, the.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Spell Buy okay yeah, because you know I know those names.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
And those you know, like if you if you count
Duke by himself, I mean, we wouldn't be playing anything
if it was not for a Duke Ellington, you know.
So it's it's amazing, no fronk snosa. You know they
came with it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
How old were you when you discovered your talent for
the drums?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
I think it discovered me. It's discovered me because you
know I stop on the table with spoons and forks.
You know, I just took it to the next level,
just intuitively. I just took it and said, hey, you know,
let me go take some lessons. But mind you, we
(08:49):
were so poor that we can only afford a couple
of lessons that three dollars a lesson. So there was
a gentleman named Joe to play behind the sirolls. I
went to him up on Newark Avenue in Jersey City,
and he like, sit down here, it's a practice pad.
(09:10):
I take these sticks, show me something, and it wasn't
a massester standing grip, wasn't a match grip. And he said, hey,
you're you're pretty much a natural. And second lesson three
bucks and I got the Buddy Rich sixteen Sensor Rudiment
Book and took it from there and from that point
(09:32):
on it you know, it was like by the time
I reached to thirteen fourteen, I met Ronald Bell and
Robert Mickens and Ricky Westfield and we started the Jazz
Birds because we're all deep into jazz at the time,
which is a main foundation of cooling a gang. So
(09:52):
John Coltrane and Charlie Parker, Lee Morgan, a Buddy Rich,
you know, all the grace at that time. You know,
we were into and we'd sit and listen to all
those jazz albums.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So at the time, though, and assuming that this is.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The early sixties or mid sixties, you know, were you
aware of the pop landscape or the soul landscape?
Speaker 5 (10:21):
We were totally aware of, you know, what was happening
pop wise and what was happening jazz wise. Because we
would do little shrawets and we'd have to play the
music of the day. You know, nobody wanted to hear
a bag's groove, who do lead? You know, blah blah dah.
(10:43):
They didn't want to hear that. The kids. They wanted
to hear the hunter gets captured by the games. Boom boom, boom,
body bone, a lot of stuff. So we knew that too.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, I was going to say that, you know, for
our listeners that don't know that, you know, in the
early period of jazz, which was more danceable, then this
virtuoso face starts where the music gets faster and it's
more about the solos and kind of more about sit
down and watch us play as opposed to like us
being a wedding band or a jukebox per se. But
(11:17):
you know, every one of my heroes and idols in
funk music that tells me about their beginnings in jazz.
Most of them sort of had a condescending attitude towards
soul and pop music. But I know that you guys
were younger, so you weren't like looking down on it
because you guys were teenagers. But I mean, how common
was it for and having heard like especially like the
(11:41):
jazz chops on the first two records, you guys were
still teenagers. How common was it for teenagers to be
that to have that virtuoso level of musicianship during that
time period.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
The con words are being virtual. Also, it wasn't common
at all, you know. How. Also was that we played
almost nightly, and Newark would play at the Blue Note
and NewYork would play Tuesday through Sunday nine pm to
(12:16):
two am. And what we were playing was all the
popular music at that time and behind different artists and
Bay owned New Jersey pretty much the same. At the
Kenya Club, there are five six acts that we played
behind each evening, so we would be getting our pop
chart shopping and honing our skills and loving jazz and
(12:40):
learning you know, the all the bebop scales and just
hanging out that way. So that's how we grew working
the clubs nightly and go to school.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
What's the rehearsal process like, because again, you guys were
a tight unit and really intricate, which so I assume
that lot of rehearsal went behind that, Like, what's the
rehearsal schedules like?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Well, a rehearsal for the the the pop groups was
just you know, they come up, they don't want their
music done a certain way. Uh, and basically really close
to the the record itself. So we pulled that off
and keep the arrangements exactly like they were from Motown
or you know, or the Atlantic sound. Uh. For what
(13:27):
we did as far as jazz was concerned, if we
were going to play take five, we sit down and
go through it or Milt Jackson's bag's crew. The rehearsal
process was easy flow. You know, Clease would take out
us on It's pretty ba bas be uh, you know,
(13:49):
and in that process also we came up with our
own music. Okay, you know, but we would listen to
everyone on the scene, pop, jazz, funk, country, and uh.
Rehearsals were easy. It's just we come in and say
let's do this, and we get at it and it's
(14:10):
come out.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You were such a large, sizeable unit. How are you
guys managing like getting to gigs? Like we live in
the era now where you know there's a thing called
a rider and you know there are companies that you
rent your equipment from.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
But them stock them on, pock them and stock them.
Yeah yeah, I don't mean uh no, we are brought
in our own equipment, right, we've set it up, We've
had our little rehearsal, you see, if everything was on
par as far as it working, and we have no
(14:53):
no crew whatsoever. Uh. And even in the early days,
the beginning, I think we had two guys, Donald Boyce
who became the voice, the voice of Jungle Boogie.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, I was going to say, and Bobby.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Simms and those two guys who were Riot, you know,
So that was it. I mean, you know, now it's
a whole different bowl game.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
He said, you were still in school during this time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We were going to school as they were like fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
We were going to school and working in the club.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Wow, that was what's your parents saying during this time?
Were they just supported from the jumper? How did that look?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
We had our parents, all of our parents were very
close to each other, and it's just like a gut feeling.
Like they had the gut feeling so did we. It
was just these all children are going to make it.
And sure enough, I mean, of course, but we put
(15:56):
that time in and they allowed us to do that time.
I was also I was playing with other people up
in the Catskills and you know, playing blues, you know,
with other artists, and so I just learned I used
to play with a guy named a gentleman named Duke
Washington all over New York City played tennisax He electrified
(16:19):
tennis saxophone player, you know, and electrified elect saxophone. So
he would say listen, Papa when I played. But that
means all the band members come to the stage, you know,
because it's something that he's some of that era that
we just got fitished talking about, you know, the twelve
(16:39):
years of big band and all that. You know, so
you hear that, and me being young, I had to
stayed a dressing room or outside, and those cold New
York nights, I was sitting in the car. Yeah, it
was tough, but I think that's how, you know, people
horn their skills and you really show the intense, the
(17:06):
intensity of the love that you have for the music.
Even today we speak of the music.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, how did you avoid the kind of gang
mentality that pretty much what it seems like according to
those uh those shorts that everyone but your band somehow
didn't avoid.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
In the early stages, we were always rehearsing. The gangs
in the area. We avoided, we avoided, we were practicing,
and myself, I've even had physical fights with some of
the gang members who came out of Jamesburg in uh
(17:54):
the like you know, like they've called it the King
of Jamesburg and he's back in the school yard taking
over the schoolyard. You know, these like major gangs. But
you see, in my life, I didn't care about anybody
being a gang member and if they stepped to me,
I'm going to try to knock you out. And what
(18:16):
happened was I got I can go in school yard
and nobody that touching me.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
This is before the martial arts entered your life.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That's crazy.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Well, I'm a second degree black belt martial.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Arts second black belt. Yes, sir, retrospect.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Cools gang is uh. The leader of the gang, I
forgot his name, Eagle, and I came downtown and uh
we got into an altercation the same deal because I'm
from the midtown, uh from bergen Lafield, Leftian. What I
what I did and cool tell the story. I took
a bicycle and beat him with a bicycle.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That was it, Jesus Christ, the survival tactics done.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
That's what you got it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
On you.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
No more bathering George Brown.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wow, that's a okay. I got the answer to that question.
I was expecting that one.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I don't even know what a double black belt is,
but I'm I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
At the same time, I don't find out either, So
you know, somebody with the bike.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
I don't think you're gonna have no problems.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
How long was it before you guys solidified your deal
with Delight Records? And if you can, I mean I've
heard a lot about uh, what's his name, Fred Fred
vicer Rodo, the the president.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Fred Figaro.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Gave Figaro, So once once overall, can you can you
verifire not if if they were the people you did
not play with if I want to know with names
like that, and I don't want to play you know,
monolith or stereotype. But were they.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
You know?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Actually they were very very sweet, good people because if
they liked what you were doing, they gave some type
of reward for it.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
They made sure that things were safe. You can spend
time in the studio developing, and they heard it and
saw it and knew the degree of talent of the band.
But it's just like the bicycle. They they were the bicycle,
if you know what I mean. Once we signed with them,
(20:43):
they were the bicycle.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, I'm gonna ask later about the the the origins
of jungle boogey.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
They sort of figure out they will.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
I just wondered if they were the bicycle in business too,
were they fair to you guys and.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
They were a bicycle in business as well.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, I'm only asking that because.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Robert tells this this crazy story of how how he
puts it about how you guys were quote unquote forced
to come up with jungle boogie sort of against your will.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Oh yeah, it was. It was like force.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
It was.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Mental block time, mental block time for creative music.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So are you telling me that your version of the story.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna mess with his Okay. We
went up to the office of the attorney at the time.
Today he's like the number one attorney for the entertainment
business in the world. I'm not going to mention his name, right, Okay, So, uh, myself,
(22:01):
Calise and Coole went up to see him, and I
can say what he said though. He said, listen, guys,
we need some effing hits. He said, I don't care
how much genius you are and how many instruments you play,
and he looked at his watch was probably a patack
Philip and said, my wife's waiting for me at the airport. Goodbye,
(22:24):
and he walked out. So Dennis went one way. Ronald
Cool and myself were walking together and said, we got
to come up with something. And sure enough, going to
Baggies is not that I'm quite sure it's not that.
Baggies a rehearsal steel in New York or it's like
(22:45):
the thirties on the West Side. And we started coming
up with this music. Hollywood Swinging was one where Ricky
Westfield came and he's had the idea. Then we were
over at Holloquin, which is our forty another hearsal studio
like forty fifth Street upstairs over Howard Johnson's right, really
(23:07):
cheap studio in Manhattan.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, where SR used to be. Okay, I said, I
know that.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Is yeah, And we came up with jungle Boogie. We
were playing it police it was we had jungle something,
but it was Dennis Thomas that came in and when
you heard the track, we said, we're calling it jungle
gym blah blah blah blah blah, and he said, no, man,
people are boogie in Let's call it jungle boogie. Bingo, done,
(23:39):
wrapped up. That's the story.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Can you verify that?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Kind of what Ronald told me was basically that that
the Heads of Delight were sort of like mesmerized by
you know what was slowly morphing into to New York
dance night culture. Yeah, and they heard Soul Makosa, of
which you know, I guess either they acquired a copy
(24:05):
and was basically like, we won our version of this song,
and you guys were like, no, we were serious musicians.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
We're not playing this mumbo jumble.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Absolutely no, we love so too. But okay, then we're
going to bring in other producers and Kalisa and I said, no,
they're not, and we went and did. We got funky
stuff out of it and all that day, so we
got Hollywood's Figle, jungle Book and funky stuff all in
one package. So you can't beat that.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Khalif Gamble was just telling me because he follows you
guys but video. He's a videographer, and he was saying
that the rooms that he's seen you guys change with
jungle Boogie. I'm talking about the whitest, most southern like
it just breaks. It's that's the one song that just
changes everything.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, it changes a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's especially because it's called jungle boogie.
I I think the irony is.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, you know, it's primitive anxiety.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
It's got jazz, it's got the ground rhythms that I
was playing and Cool was playing, and you know, and
you got that the horns playing contrary motion and you
gotta have to go to going down the other way.
You know, that's that's uh in jazz. But you had
had a lot of classical music. When the strings are
(25:26):
going one way and then you hear the troubles going
down the whole different. It just opens it up, you know.
And then you got a guy going you know, which
was novel that also made the record what it was,
you know what it is still today.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So can you also settle a question and dying to
ask you guys or someone from the organization? I mean, yeah,
one could say that because all the albums were made
at the same studio. Of course they sound similar, but
were at least with that first album, the Keep on
Bumping album, Were you guys really the Cage's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No. So the CAGs were their own self contained unit and.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Their own self contained unit. What happened was Calice was
producing them. So you're gonna get you're gonna get a
little that cool in the gang's sold Uh with us.
We we've changed studios. We're at the House of Music
in Jersey.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
The first records were done across the street from the
studio fifty four. The Beatles recorded there, Dion Warwick, Burke back,
everybody recorded there. Okay, so you know we did mix studios.
But keep on bumping. You got to keep on bumping. Yeah, yeah, right,
that was all done by with a mere, a mere
(26:56):
beyond a mere. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Is he a bell as well? Is he related to
the bells?
Speaker 5 (27:01):
They're brothers.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, we're all of you Muslim? Are just the just
between Ronald and.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Ronald Cool a mirror Klader Smith? Well, we'll Muslim.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
But that that didn't get in the way when we
did our prayer circle at night, I mean before the concert.
Didn't matter if you were saying, you know, humdu Allah
or prays God. It didn't matter, you know, because we
were going out to do the thing and make people happy,
and we all understand that God is God.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We should probably mention when we're talking about Ronald and
you call him Calice, the people who are watching and listening.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Well, back in the I call him both Colise, Ronald
Ronald Bell, you know Ronnie, you know. But all that
faded away when we got ready to pray and go ready,
get ready to get on stage. It didn't affect it
didn't affect who and what we were because you know,
(28:10):
Calice and Cool and chall would develop psychologically enough to
understand that, you know, there's only one God, and God
is God. What we call them right water.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Marius White shares a story about three last days in
time earth wind Fire maybe pre head to the sky
earth wind Fire. You know, occasionally they would meet, like
in different audiences that weren't familiar with them and either
get a cold reception or you know, just get outright
(28:46):
boot or whatnot. Marius White tells these stories of like
coming to Philadelphia and you know, literally getting the worst
treatment from the audiences. But are you guys meeting at
all like any sort of indifference or like, how are
you guys handling different territories that's outside of your Tri
state area comfort zone?
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Well, you know, at that point we were we would
play what the music of that time, So it was
accepted because we were playing what the people wanted to
hear in the VFW lodge that we're playing, you know,
or some high school homecoming. So we we we uh,
(29:36):
just like the old days, people say, look out and
see what the audience looks at, you know, and you
know exactly where to go. So we did. So that's
what we uh, that's what we did. You know, we
played what they wanted to hear. We would enforce anything
on the people. Uh, you know, if it's God, if
it's Temptations, or if it was the the old they're
(30:00):
gonna that's what they're gonna get. Because we know, we
know how to work an audience. And that don't mean
that in a derogative way. And still today we know
how to work an audience because we go out, we look,
you say, in a robotic hey, take that out of there,
take this song out. Take this song the song because
they will give a lull, right or working with an orchestra.
(30:27):
Then we'll say, well let's put this in because it'll
keep it it. It gives it that feel, it gives
it the tone, it gives it the tone of where
where we're coming from. So we'll add something that's jazzy
(30:48):
jazz er. Yeah. So it's always been like that. The
only time we got like who these guys is we
were in East Germany and that the album. But it
was all these dance remixes and that's what they were
hearing on radio. That's what we got up to play.
(31:10):
They were like, huh. Then we used to the right
the whole the dancers. That was it, And so that's
all awkward and bad. But I presume today the same
people they've caught up. But that was it.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That was the only time full disclosure. I'm gonna just
speak for all the folks. Depending on how old you are,
you are you have a dummy moment with cooling the game.
I feel like people who were maybe my generations, like eighties, eighties,
nineties babies, it's a moment when you heard somemmer madness
and you were.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Like, oh, so, I mean, yeah, can I can I
relate a story about someone? We had a jungle boogie
and of course I went up charts, and so we
put our Spirit of the Boogie and in summer, and
I think we're in Illinois. So this jockey turned it
(32:02):
over because it was a B side. There's the bat
side of the Spirit of the Boogie. He turned it
over and the rest is history. I mean, we had
two songs going up the charts together. That's unusual, you know,
go especially.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Then, was this shocking that something that Mellow kind of
caught on?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Absolutely, we were like okay with the two chords, right,
it was shocking, the two chords and the wonderful Calisa's
wonderful solo.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I have another question about Summer Madness. Did you guys
feel any sort of way about Bill Conti's score of
Rocky because there is there's a song on that soundtrack
called Reflections, which is is damn near a summer madness. Well,
I believe in the movie he runs and works out
(32:55):
the summer madness, but when you buy the soundtrack he does, right,
But when you buy the soundtrack, there's a song called
Reflections which is basically summer madness just half a chord off.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Like the way the way that we write songs that
It's Tonight Show, or.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
The way that I believe that the Barcads wrote their
songs was basically put a song on and get it derivative,
just like that song, and change one little.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Part so that you don't get sued or whatever.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
But it's it's so do the balcas are like that,
But you're talking about what goes to his room. He
puts on that a little single right this you know
somemmer madness, you know, But.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
But did you guys feel so a way like we're
even aware that Bill Conti had made his version of
summer madness on that rocky soundcheck at all?
Speaker 5 (33:44):
You know, I don't think we were aware of. But
we cool on a gang. There's always been this real
high spiritual group and we really are And if somebody
does something, we don't say, we don't get lit just
and say, okay, we're going to sue this person. As
the years I've gone by, we've been rewarded and awarded
(34:09):
with so many different we haven't gotten Oscar yet, but
I know that that that's coming, and the Hall of
Fame is coming, and so will the Kennedy Awards and
the what is it Rogers and Hammerstein or one of those.
It's coming. It is, so we don't we've We've never
(34:30):
been the type to excuse my friends the bitch that
we didn't have this and this one got that. We
just move on, let's write some music, and it's it's
still it's still like.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
That I always wanted to know.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
At least the first three records were produced by Gene
rad I assume that Gene was a house producer of Motown,
okay of Motown, and he came over to the the
light later. What was what was Gene like as a producer,
because later you guys started producing yourselves, But what were
those first initial years like.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Gene was a bona fide genius. Down down to the
sound of the band and bell sound. That's where we recorded.
That was the studio. That's where everybody recorded the Beatles
at that time. And back then the studios were so
stark looking. Today's studios are groovy with the light. But
(35:32):
we the board then had the big pan pots, you know.
But Jeene played piano. His father played for Coody Williams,
so he did a big great musical background. Gene was
the producer on Cool Jerk really oh yeah, he produced
(35:53):
and had written a number of things. Him and George Clinton.
George Clinton came out of Motown as well. There were
more tone writers.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm just finding out that he's also father of Penny
Ford of Snap and Sharon Red. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well
I know that Sharon Red and Penny Ford, are our
sisters are half sisters or that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
So, and Sharon was an actress big time. She was
in here back in the day, you know, Regina was.
He wanted a new sound and we had that jazzy sound. Uh,
and we'd go at rehearsal. He'd go and manipulate the amps,
you know, you know, the right the tones and things
(36:38):
how it should sound. And uh, even with me, even
some of the breaks. He would saying, Now, George, it
is simple. You could He went, prop, w do that's
all I want there, and leve it alone. Get the
floor top prop you get the floor Tom resonating. And
he came up with the idea before the Jackson's when
(37:00):
it was a program was Alison. It was soul Okay,
one of the early black programs, and he had us,
he had the filters. I guess you can call it
of calling a Gangs Sunday cartoon show back then. Really
really it's a b Yeah. Back then I think this show.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Was called soul Okay.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Wow, I never knew that.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
In black and white and all that that good stuff. Right.
It was. The stage was so small they had to
put me on the side.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know, as I said at the top of the show,
what's really notable about you guys is the metamorphosis of
the group, you know, starting off jazz, adding more soul
to it, and then you know, and to this day,
like as as a soul trained historian, I credit uh,
you Guys's second appearance on Soul Train as a pivotal
(38:01):
moment of that show.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
It's the moment where.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Even Don Cornelius admits to you guys that he never
heard Jungle Bookie. Like he basically said that, you know,
he got the forty five the day before and he
heard funky stuff and thought that nothing ever is going
to top funky stuff. So I don't need to listen
to the B side, and you guys do Jungle Bookie.
And I noticed, as someone who's studied every episode of
(38:27):
that show, you know, the first three and a half
years of that show was really sort of riding off
the cotails of Don's connects in Chicago and you know,
the middle of America.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So like a lot of Curtis, a lot of you know,
like Chicago era groups, some of.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Them like older And what makes it notable when you
guys come on the show the second time and you do.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Funky stuff and you do jungle Bookie. It's as if
the kids.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Only see themselves because there's a group that's their age
or younger than them playing a different type of music
that's not really based on motown or based on James Brown.
It's like it's it's clearly like a marking of new
territory and then introduction of funk and the way they're
dancing is like their life depends on it. Like I
(39:20):
wish I had a song to compare it to now,
Like if you put the song on the moment now and.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
The audience just goes crazy.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
But what is it like or how jarring is it
to adjust two different genres, because you know, jumping from
funk to disco was such a hard adjustment, and you
guys caught a lot of flack, Like I was raised
by uncles that was like, well I remember my Ara
Cool mccan, you know whatever, So can you can you
(39:49):
talk about what it's like to either sink or swim
in a time period in which a lot of your
contemporaries are not trying to swim and they're sinking, and
you guys are like, nope, we got to go on
and move, So can you talk about the period at
least that everybody's dancing right before celebration at disco period
(40:10):
you guys have to go through.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Well, we've always been eclectic. You listen to the music
and it's thread over the years. You say, well, they're
not following the scheme of what most artists do. This
is the albums all sound the same. Everything sounds the same.
We were in London, Coalise and I and we had
(40:35):
an interview and he said, you guys got Cajon's and
we said, what are you talking about? He said, you
don't stay in one niche. You're like, right, you do this,
you do that, and he said most artists they want
to save their careers and they're staying at one niche.
We've always played what we felt like playing. We wrote
(40:56):
what we felt like writing. So in those trends transitional periods,
it didn't affect us. It maybe affected the Light records
because the sales weren't there, but it didn't affect us
and regards to because we weren't making that much money anyway.
But so we just were on the down in the
(41:18):
trenches trying to make it work and putting things together.
But We've always written different styles of music, so coming
from that stole R and B Era. It didn't affect us.
You know. We got JT, pulled him along and just
(41:39):
started writing songs for a vocalist and bingo, it worked.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Hey, quest Love Supreme listeners, this is Sugar Steve. We
don't like to do this, but we're stopping the episode
right there. Please come back next week. We'll look on
your podcast for you. From part two of our interview
with Funky George Brown of Clearly. In part two, he
talks about some of the band's hits in the eighties,
his new memoir Cooling the Gang in Me.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
And much much more.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh, and make sure you check out.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Cool the Gang new album, People Just Want to Have Fun.
It's made by George and another QLs guest, Ronald cool Bell,
with the rest of the gang.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
See you next time. Quest Love Supreme is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm your host, Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
With me, we have the strongest, the strongest team in
the land, of course, Team Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Are you walking on the moon right now, Sugar Steve?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
That's correct, Yes, the moon.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's where you're at. Okay, you're walking on the moon.
We also gotta a lie you with us.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
What up, Quest Love Supreme? How are you doing? I said,
is this the name now?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Because she was like, welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I
am Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes you are, and you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Are I I embodied the tired.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Sorry, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sorry, Uh, I know he is working extremely hard. Future episodes.
We're getting ready for another round of in person episodes
for the for course of Supreme.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So you know, oh yeah, l a edition. Yes, it's
going to be exciting. Fon tikeolo, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Man?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
New bombs on this?
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Man? I gotta say, yeah, man, thank you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Where did this come from? What you know? You gotta
you gotta like me?
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Where?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Where where did this?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The spark of an idea come from?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Who?
Speaker 6 (01:22):
And I you know, we've just been for the last
couple of years, been working really hard, like on the documentary.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
And then also you know, playing a block party made
in Durham, uh October seventh. But uh but nah man,
we just I missed the chair, bro, I missed being
in the chair, I missed recording, and so were just like, yo,
let's just go cook up, Like we just wanted to
have some fun and just you know, let them go.
Those records they're out now. Wish me well, Glory Glory
is out on all platforms. But those records ain't even
(01:49):
they ain't even three weeks O. Maybe a little over
two weeks though, like they fresh fresh. We just finish
Wow fresh fresh after other all right, that's just exciting
to me. That's more exciting and recording something and where
for like you know, however long making a year cycle
to get it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Nah, bro, cook it up, let it go. That's what's up, yo.
Today is going to be an awesome episode. I will
say that for.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
The Wow six, for the last six decades, our Guests
has literally been the heartbeat of Jersey City's finest musical unit.
Jersey City is probably the most diverse unit. They pretty
much changed music numerous numerous times. Kind of going through
(02:36):
a metamorphosis period really not afforded to any artist, maybe
close to Miles Davis in terms of going through different phases.
Of course, you know, they're late sixties, early seventies soul phase.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And then we got the.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Mid seventies funk phase and then exploding into the disco scene,
adjusting to it well enough to guard them a Grammy
Album of the Year, not for their participation in the
inescapable Mammoth soundtrack for Saturday Night Fever and then riding
off successfully into the eighties with just an unprecedented streak
(03:15):
of really perfect dance pop classics. In my opinion, this
unit known as Cool and the Gang is the dream
as far as legacies can turn like, dabbling in many genres,
and of course, with this being the hip hop's fiftieth
anniversary and our brother Lovlily known as Funky George being
(03:40):
part of the unit that's probably the most sampled I
didn't realize that Coolnan Gang is the most sampled band
in hip hop. That's an honor, so that means that
they also changed hip hop. What we have him here today.
We hope to go.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Through his history and his legacy.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
The One and only Funky George, Funky George Brown of
Cool the Gang.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Welcome to course, loves degree, How you doing.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Nice to be here, quess.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Great to have you. Where are you talking to us
right now? From where are you?
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Woodland Hills, California? The valley? Okay, you know Calabasa's Tasannah
that area Woodland.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Hills, so literally Hollywood Swing. And how how long have
you been out there?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I've been here thirty seven years? You know. My band
members would actually say when you're coming back home, when
you're going back to Jersey, you know, So it was
used to be a running joke. But love it out here.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Right before the pandemic, we were privy to a series
of animated shorts that basically told the story of the
band's origins and their very beginning before they got a
record deal, these little animated minustitials, and to me that
(04:59):
was one of the most at least as as a
as a music head, that was one of the most
incredible things I've ever seen, because, you know, a lot
of the favorites that we grow up with really aren't
afforded much information, especially for like groups in the seventies
and eighties, like you guys are given the fair level
playing field of your you know, your your peers that
(05:20):
get access to mainstream press. So I knew nothing about
the history of the band. You guys were like rigorously
honest about your beginnings.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You know, when we're talking about Cool in the gang,
that Cool was like a leader of a gang. You know,
most most most bands I know, starting church and all
that stuff. So well, first of all, where where were
you born? I assume that is Jersey City. I don't know,
I could be wrong. Okay, that's where you were born, Yes, sir,
so you were first generation Northeast family. Most most soul
(05:54):
acts I know come from the South and then they
migrate up north. But you were born in Jersey City,
Jersey City, okay, So could you just give me a
description of what Jersey City was like for you in
your childhood, at least for those formative years before you
started discovering your talent.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
You know, we're going back one hundred and fifty years,
you know, so it's kind of hard for me to remember.
You know what you can't remember the blacksmith shorting Norse
the shoes, right, right right, you know, and the guy's
pumping the water when it was a fire so long ago.
(06:34):
But Sugar, he's in jerseys He's in Steve Right. Hoboken.
Jersey City and Hoboken were very alike at that time,
Jersey City being the second largest city in New Jersey,
it was a basically a working class town, quiet working
(06:56):
class town.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I got.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I got to put more respect on it because I think,
you know, I mean, I'm not a New Yorker, even
though I've been here long enough to kind of claim it.
I think I should be here for twenty years before
I say I'm a New Yorker. But you know, a
lot of times, even as a Philadelphia, Jersey's just like
over there, you know, from New York, Jersey, Jersey's over there.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
The amount of talent that came out of Jersey City
and New Jersey is a mind boggling. I mean, you
got count Basie. It's just for one like Sonata, you know,
sa On.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
This is Jersey City, Jersey.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
This is just Jersey. But out of Jersey City too.
You got people like Nick Adams, Brenda Vercrow Cooler, Ni Gang,
Roy Hamilton. It just goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Roy Hamilton, Roy Hamilton's don't let go Roy Hamilton. Okay.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Yeah. So there's a pluffer of talents that came out
of Jersey City, proper, the Duprees, the.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Spell Buy okay yeah, because you know I know those names.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
And those you know, like if you if you count
Duke by himself, I mean, we wouldn't be playing anything
if it was not for a Duke Ellington, you know.
So it's it's amazing, no fronk snosa. You know they
came with it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
How old were you when you discovered your talent for
the drums?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
I think it discovered me. It's discovered me because you
know I stop on the table with spoons and forks.
You know, I just took it to the next level,
just intuitively. I just took it and said, hey, you know,
let me go take some lessons. But mind you, we
(08:49):
were so poor that we can only afford a couple
of lessons that three dollars a lesson. So there was
a gentleman named Joe to play behind the sirolls. I
went to him up on Newark Avenue in Jersey City,
and he like, sit down here, it's a practice pad.
(09:10):
I take these sticks, show me something, and it wasn't
a massester standing grip, wasn't a match grip. And he said, hey,
you're you're pretty much a natural. And second lesson three
bucks and I got the Buddy Rich sixteen Sensor Rudiment
Book and took it from there and from that point
(09:32):
on it you know, it was like by the time
I reached to thirteen fourteen, I met Ronald Bell and
Robert Mickens and Ricky Westfield and we started the Jazz
Birds because we're all deep into jazz at the time,
which is a main foundation of cooling a gang. So
(09:52):
John Coltrane and Charlie Parker, Lee Morgan, a Buddy Rich,
you know, all the grace at that time. You know,
we were into and we'd sit and listen to all
those jazz albums.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So at the time, though, and assuming that this is.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The early sixties or mid sixties, you know, were you
aware of the pop landscape or the soul landscape?
Speaker 5 (10:21):
We were totally aware of, you know, what was happening
pop wise and what was happening jazz wise. Because we
would do little shrawets and we'd have to play the
music of the day. You know, nobody wanted to hear
a bag's groove, who do lead? You know, blah blah dah.
(10:43):
They didn't want to hear that. The kids. They wanted
to hear the hunter gets captured by the games. Boom boom, boom,
body bone, a lot of stuff. So we knew that too.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, I was going to say that, you know, for
our listeners that don't know that, you know, in the
early period of jazz, which was more danceable, then this
virtuoso face starts where the music gets faster and it's
more about the solos and kind of more about sit
down and watch us play as opposed to like us
being a wedding band or a jukebox per se. But
(11:17):
you know, every one of my heroes and idols in
funk music that tells me about their beginnings in jazz.
Most of them sort of had a condescending attitude towards
soul and pop music. But I know that you guys
were younger, so you weren't like looking down on it
because you guys were teenagers. But I mean, how common
was it for and having heard like especially like the
(11:41):
jazz chops on the first two records, you guys were
still teenagers. How common was it for teenagers to be
that to have that virtuoso level of musicianship during that
time period.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
The con words are being virtual. Also, it wasn't common
at all, you know. How. Also was that we played
almost nightly, and Newark would play at the Blue Note
and NewYork would play Tuesday through Sunday nine pm to
(12:16):
two am. And what we were playing was all the
popular music at that time and behind different artists and
Bay owned New Jersey pretty much the same. At the
Kenya Club, there are five six acts that we played
behind each evening, so we would be getting our pop
chart shopping and honing our skills and loving jazz and
(12:40):
learning you know, the all the bebop scales and just
hanging out that way. So that's how we grew working
the clubs nightly and go to school.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
What's the rehearsal process like, because again, you guys were
a tight unit and really intricate, which so I assume
that lot of rehearsal went behind that, Like, what's the
rehearsal schedules like?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Well, a rehearsal for the the the pop groups was
just you know, they come up, they don't want their
music done a certain way. Uh, and basically really close
to the the record itself. So we pulled that off
and keep the arrangements exactly like they were from Motown
or you know, or the Atlantic sound. Uh. For what
(13:27):
we did as far as jazz was concerned, if we
were going to play take five, we sit down and
go through it or Milt Jackson's bag's crew. The rehearsal
process was easy flow. You know, Clease would take out
us on It's pretty ba bas be uh, you know,
(13:49):
and in that process also we came up with our
own music. Okay, you know, but we would listen to
everyone on the scene, pop, jazz, funk, country, and uh.
Rehearsals were easy. It's just we come in and say
let's do this, and we get at it and it's
(14:10):
come out.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You were such a large, sizeable unit. How are you
guys managing like getting to gigs? Like we live in
the era now where you know there's a thing called
a rider and you know there are companies that you
rent your equipment from.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
But them stock them on, pock them and stock them.
Yeah yeah, I don't mean uh no, we are brought
in our own equipment, right, we've set it up, We've
had our little rehearsal, you see, if everything was on
par as far as it working, and we have no
(14:53):
no crew whatsoever. Uh. And even in the early days,
the beginning, I think we had two guys, Donald Boyce
who became the voice, the voice of Jungle Boogie.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, I was going to say, and Bobby.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Simms and those two guys who were Riot, you know,
So that was it. I mean, you know, now it's
a whole different bowl game.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
He said, you were still in school during this time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We were going to school as they were like fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
We were going to school and working in the club.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Wow, that was what's your parents saying during this time?
Were they just supported from the jumper? How did that look?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
We had our parents, all of our parents were very
close to each other, and it's just like a gut feeling.
Like they had the gut feeling so did we. It
was just these all children are going to make it.
And sure enough, I mean, of course, but we put
(15:56):
that time in and they allowed us to do that time.
I was also I was playing with other people up
in the Catskills and you know, playing blues, you know,
with other artists, and so I just learned I used
to play with a guy named a gentleman named Duke
Washington all over New York City played tennisax He electrified
(16:19):
tennis saxophone player, you know, and electrified elect saxophone. So
he would say listen, Papa when I played. But that
means all the band members come to the stage, you know,
because it's something that he's some of that era that
we just got fitished talking about, you know, the twelve
(16:39):
years of big band and all that. You know, so
you hear that, and me being young, I had to
stayed a dressing room or outside, and those cold New
York nights, I was sitting in the car. Yeah, it
was tough, but I think that's how, you know, people
horn their skills and you really show the intense, the
(17:06):
intensity of the love that you have for the music.
Even today we speak of the music.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, how did you avoid the kind of gang
mentality that pretty much what it seems like according to
those uh those shorts that everyone but your band somehow
didn't avoid.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
In the early stages, we were always rehearsing. The gangs
in the area. We avoided, we avoided, we were practicing,
and myself, I've even had physical fights with some of
the gang members who came out of Jamesburg in uh
(17:54):
the like you know, like they've called it the King
of Jamesburg and he's back in the school yard taking
over the schoolyard. You know, these like major gangs. But
you see, in my life, I didn't care about anybody
being a gang member and if they stepped to me,
I'm going to try to knock you out. And what
(18:16):
happened was I got I can go in school yard
and nobody that touching me.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
This is before the martial arts entered your life.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That's crazy.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Well, I'm a second degree black belt martial.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Arts second black belt. Yes, sir, retrospect.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Cools gang is uh. The leader of the gang, I
forgot his name, Eagle, and I came downtown and uh
we got into an altercation the same deal because I'm
from the midtown, uh from bergen Lafield, Leftian. What I
what I did and cool tell the story. I took
a bicycle and beat him with a bicycle.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That was it, Jesus Christ, the survival tactics done.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
That's what you got it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
On you.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
No more bathering George Brown.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wow, that's a okay. I got the answer to that question.
I was expecting that one.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I don't even know what a double black belt is,
but I'm I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
At the same time, I don't find out either, So
you know, somebody with the bike.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
I don't think you're gonna have no problems.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
How long was it before you guys solidified your deal
with Delight Records? And if you can, I mean I've
heard a lot about uh, what's his name, Fred Fred
vicer Rodo, the the president.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Fred Figaro.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Gave Figaro, So once once overall, can you can you
verifire not if if they were the people you did
not play with if I want to know with names
like that, and I don't want to play you know,
monolith or stereotype. But were they.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
You know?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Actually they were very very sweet, good people because if
they liked what you were doing, they gave some type
of reward for it.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
They made sure that things were safe. You can spend
time in the studio developing, and they heard it and
saw it and knew the degree of talent of the band.
But it's just like the bicycle. They they were the bicycle,
if you know what I mean. Once we signed with them,
(20:43):
they were the bicycle.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, I'm gonna ask later about the the the origins
of jungle boogey.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
They sort of figure out they will.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
I just wondered if they were the bicycle in business too,
were they fair to you guys and.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
They were a bicycle in business as well.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, I'm only asking that because.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Robert tells this this crazy story of how how he
puts it about how you guys were quote unquote forced
to come up with jungle boogie sort of against your will.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Oh yeah, it was. It was like force.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
It was.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Mental block time, mental block time for creative music.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So are you telling me that your version of the story.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna mess with his Okay. We
went up to the office of the attorney at the time.
Today he's like the number one attorney for the entertainment
business in the world. I'm not going to mention his name, right, Okay, So, uh, myself,
(22:01):
Calise and Coole went up to see him, and I
can say what he said though. He said, listen, guys,
we need some effing hits. He said, I don't care
how much genius you are and how many instruments you play,
and he looked at his watch was probably a patack
Philip and said, my wife's waiting for me at the airport. Goodbye,
(22:24):
and he walked out. So Dennis went one way. Ronald
Cool and myself were walking together and said, we got
to come up with something. And sure enough, going to
Baggies is not that I'm quite sure it's not that.
Baggies a rehearsal steel in New York or it's like
(22:45):
the thirties on the West Side. And we started coming
up with this music. Hollywood Swinging was one where Ricky
Westfield came and he's had the idea. Then we were
over at Holloquin, which is our forty another hearsal studio
like forty fifth Street upstairs over Howard Johnson's right, really
(23:07):
cheap studio in Manhattan.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, where SR used to be. Okay, I said, I
know that.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Is yeah, And we came up with jungle Boogie. We
were playing it police it was we had jungle something,
but it was Dennis Thomas that came in and when
you heard the track, we said, we're calling it jungle
gym blah blah blah blah blah, and he said, no, man,
people are boogie in Let's call it jungle boogie. Bingo, done,
(23:39):
wrapped up. That's the story.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Can you verify that?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Kind of what Ronald told me was basically that that
the Heads of Delight were sort of like mesmerized by
you know what was slowly morphing into to New York
dance night culture. Yeah, and they heard Soul Makosa, of
which you know, I guess either they acquired a copy
(24:05):
and was basically like, we won our version of this song,
and you guys were like, no, we were serious musicians.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
We're not playing this mumbo jumble.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Absolutely no, we love so too. But okay, then we're
going to bring in other producers and Kalisa and I said, no,
they're not, and we went and did. We got funky
stuff out of it and all that day, so we
got Hollywood's Figle, jungle Book and funky stuff all in
one package. So you can't beat that.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Khalif Gamble was just telling me because he follows you
guys but video. He's a videographer, and he was saying
that the rooms that he's seen you guys change with
jungle Boogie. I'm talking about the whitest, most southern like
it just breaks. It's that's the one song that just
changes everything.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, it changes a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's especially because it's called jungle boogie.
I I think the irony is.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, you know, it's primitive anxiety.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
It's got jazz, it's got the ground rhythms that I
was playing and Cool was playing, and you know, and
you got that the horns playing contrary motion and you
gotta have to go to going down the other way.
You know, that's that's uh in jazz. But you had
had a lot of classical music. When the strings are
(25:26):
going one way and then you hear the troubles going
down the whole different. It just opens it up, you know.
And then you got a guy going you know, which
was novel that also made the record what it was,
you know what it is still today.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So can you also settle a question and dying to
ask you guys or someone from the organization? I mean, yeah,
one could say that because all the albums were made
at the same studio. Of course they sound similar, but
were at least with that first album, the Keep on
Bumping album, Were you guys really the Cage's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No. So the CAGs were their own self contained unit and.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Their own self contained unit. What happened was Calice was
producing them. So you're gonna get you're gonna get a
little that cool in the gang's sold Uh with us.
We we've changed studios. We're at the House of Music
in Jersey.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
The first records were done across the street from the
studio fifty four. The Beatles recorded there, Dion Warwick, Burke back,
everybody recorded there. Okay, so you know we did mix studios.
But keep on bumping. You got to keep on bumping. Yeah, yeah, right,
that was all done by with a mere, a mere
(26:56):
beyond a mere. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Is he a bell as well? Is he related to
the bells?
Speaker 5 (27:01):
They're brothers.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, we're all of you Muslim? Are just the just
between Ronald and.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Ronald Cool a mirror Klader Smith? Well, we'll Muslim.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
But that that didn't get in the way when we
did our prayer circle at night, I mean before the concert.
Didn't matter if you were saying, you know, humdu Allah
or prays God. It didn't matter, you know, because we
were going out to do the thing and make people happy,
and we all understand that God is God.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We should probably mention when we're talking about Ronald and
you call him Calice, the people who are watching and listening.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Well, back in the I call him both Colise, Ronald
Ronald Bell, you know Ronnie, you know. But all that
faded away when we got ready to pray and go ready,
get ready to get on stage. It didn't affect it
didn't affect who and what we were because you know,
(28:10):
Calice and Cool and chall would develop psychologically enough to
understand that, you know, there's only one God, and God
is God. What we call them right water.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Marius White shares a story about three last days in
time earth wind Fire maybe pre head to the sky
earth wind Fire. You know, occasionally they would meet, like
in different audiences that weren't familiar with them and either
get a cold reception or you know, just get outright
(28:46):
boot or whatnot. Marius White tells these stories of like
coming to Philadelphia and you know, literally getting the worst
treatment from the audiences. But are you guys meeting at
all like any sort of indifference or like, how are
you guys handling different territories that's outside of your Tri
state area comfort zone?
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Well, you know, at that point we were we would
play what the music of that time, So it was
accepted because we were playing what the people wanted to
hear in the VFW lodge that we're playing, you know,
or some high school homecoming. So we we we uh,
(29:36):
just like the old days, people say, look out and
see what the audience looks at, you know, and you
know exactly where to go. So we did. So that's
what we uh, that's what we did. You know, we
played what they wanted to hear. We would enforce anything
on the people. Uh, you know, if it's God, if
it's Temptations, or if it was the the old they're
(30:00):
gonna that's what they're gonna get. Because we know, we
know how to work an audience. And that don't mean
that in a derogative way. And still today we know
how to work an audience because we go out, we look,
you say, in a robotic hey, take that out of there,
take this song out. Take this song the song because
they will give a lull, right or working with an orchestra.
(30:27):
Then we'll say, well let's put this in because it'll
keep it it. It gives it that feel, it gives
it the tone, it gives it the tone of where
where we're coming from. So we'll add something that's jazzy
(30:48):
jazz er. Yeah. So it's always been like that. The
only time we got like who these guys is we
were in East Germany and that the album. But it
was all these dance remixes and that's what they were
hearing on radio. That's what we got up to play.
(31:10):
They were like, huh. Then we used to the right
the whole the dancers. That was it, And so that's
all awkward and bad. But I presume today the same
people they've caught up. But that was it.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That was the only time full disclosure. I'm gonna just
speak for all the folks. Depending on how old you are,
you are you have a dummy moment with cooling the game.
I feel like people who were maybe my generations, like eighties, eighties,
nineties babies, it's a moment when you heard somemmer madness
and you were.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Like, oh, so, I mean, yeah, can I can I
relate a story about someone? We had a jungle boogie
and of course I went up charts, and so we
put our Spirit of the Boogie and in summer, and
I think we're in Illinois. So this jockey turned it
(32:02):
over because it was a B side. There's the bat
side of the Spirit of the Boogie. He turned it
over and the rest is history. I mean, we had
two songs going up the charts together. That's unusual, you know,
go especially.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Then, was this shocking that something that Mellow kind of
caught on?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Absolutely, we were like okay with the two chords, right,
it was shocking, the two chords and the wonderful Calisa's
wonderful solo.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I have another question about Summer Madness. Did you guys
feel any sort of way about Bill Conti's score of
Rocky because there is there's a song on that soundtrack
called Reflections, which is is damn near a summer madness. Well,
I believe in the movie he runs and works out
(32:55):
the summer madness, but when you buy the soundtrack he does, right,
But when you buy the soundtrack, there's a song called
Reflections which is basically summer madness just half a chord off.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Like the way the way that we write songs that
It's Tonight Show, or.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
The way that I believe that the Barcads wrote their
songs was basically put a song on and get it derivative,
just like that song, and change one little.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Part so that you don't get sued or whatever.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
But it's it's so do the balcas are like that,
But you're talking about what goes to his room. He
puts on that a little single right this you know
somemmer madness, you know, But.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
But did you guys feel so a way like we're
even aware that Bill Conti had made his version of
summer madness on that rocky soundcheck at all?
Speaker 5 (33:44):
You know, I don't think we were aware of. But
we cool on a gang. There's always been this real
high spiritual group and we really are And if somebody
does something, we don't say, we don't get lit just
and say, okay, we're going to sue this person. As
the years I've gone by, we've been rewarded and awarded
(34:09):
with so many different we haven't gotten Oscar yet, but
I know that that that's coming, and the Hall of
Fame is coming, and so will the Kennedy Awards and
the what is it Rogers and Hammerstein or one of those.
It's coming. It is, so we don't we've We've never
(34:30):
been the type to excuse my friends the bitch that
we didn't have this and this one got that. We
just move on, let's write some music, and it's it's
still it's still like.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
That I always wanted to know.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
At least the first three records were produced by Gene
rad I assume that Gene was a house producer of Motown,
okay of Motown, and he came over to the the
light later. What was what was Gene like as a producer,
because later you guys started producing yourselves, But what were
those first initial years like.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Gene was a bona fide genius. Down down to the
sound of the band and bell sound. That's where we recorded.
That was the studio. That's where everybody recorded the Beatles
at that time. And back then the studios were so
stark looking. Today's studios are groovy with the light. But
(35:32):
we the board then had the big pan pots, you know.
But Jeene played piano. His father played for Coody Williams,
so he did a big great musical background. Gene was
the producer on Cool Jerk really oh yeah, he produced
(35:53):
and had written a number of things. Him and George Clinton.
George Clinton came out of Motown as well. There were
more tone writers.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm just finding out that he's also father of Penny
Ford of Snap and Sharon Red. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well
I know that Sharon Red and Penny Ford, are our
sisters are half sisters or that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
So, and Sharon was an actress big time. She was
in here back in the day, you know, Regina was.
He wanted a new sound and we had that jazzy sound. Uh,
and we'd go at rehearsal. He'd go and manipulate the amps,
you know, you know, the right the tones and things
(36:38):
how it should sound. And uh, even with me, even
some of the breaks. He would saying, Now, George, it
is simple. You could He went, prop, w do that's
all I want there, and leve it alone. Get the
floor top prop you get the floor Tom resonating. And
he came up with the idea before the Jackson's when
(37:00):
it was a program was Alison. It was soul Okay,
one of the early black programs, and he had us,
he had the filters. I guess you can call it
of calling a Gangs Sunday cartoon show back then. Really
really it's a b Yeah. Back then I think this show.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Was called soul Okay.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Wow, I never knew that.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
In black and white and all that that good stuff. Right.
It was. The stage was so small they had to
put me on the side.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know, as I said at the top of the show,
what's really notable about you guys is the metamorphosis of
the group, you know, starting off jazz, adding more soul
to it, and then you know, and to this day,
like as as a soul trained historian, I credit uh,
you Guys's second appearance on Soul Train as a pivotal
(38:01):
moment of that show.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
It's the moment where.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Even Don Cornelius admits to you guys that he never
heard Jungle Bookie. Like he basically said that, you know,
he got the forty five the day before and he
heard funky stuff and thought that nothing ever is going
to top funky stuff. So I don't need to listen
to the B side, and you guys do Jungle Bookie.
And I noticed, as someone who's studied every episode of
(38:27):
that show, you know, the first three and a half
years of that show was really sort of riding off
the cotails of Don's connects in Chicago and you know,
the middle of America.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So like a lot of Curtis, a lot of you know,
like Chicago era groups, some of.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Them like older And what makes it notable when you
guys come on the show the second time and you do.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Funky stuff and you do jungle Bookie. It's as if
the kids.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Only see themselves because there's a group that's their age
or younger than them playing a different type of music
that's not really based on motown or based on James Brown.
It's like it's it's clearly like a marking of new
territory and then introduction of funk and the way they're
dancing is like their life depends on it. Like I
(39:20):
wish I had a song to compare it to now,
Like if you put the song on the moment now and.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
The audience just goes crazy.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
But what is it like or how jarring is it
to adjust two different genres, because you know, jumping from
funk to disco was such a hard adjustment, and you
guys caught a lot of flack, Like I was raised
by uncles that was like, well I remember my Ara
Cool mccan, you know whatever, So can you can you
(39:49):
talk about what it's like to either sink or swim
in a time period in which a lot of your
contemporaries are not trying to swim and they're sinking, and
you guys are like, nope, we got to go on
and move, So can you talk about the period at
least that everybody's dancing right before celebration at disco period
(40:10):
you guys have to go through.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Well, we've always been eclectic. You listen to the music
and it's thread over the years. You say, well, they're
not following the scheme of what most artists do. This
is the albums all sound the same. Everything sounds the same.
We were in London, Coalise and I and we had
(40:35):
an interview and he said, you guys got Cajon's and
we said, what are you talking about? He said, you
don't stay in one niche. You're like, right, you do this,
you do that, and he said most artists they want
to save their careers and they're staying at one niche.
We've always played what we felt like playing. We wrote
(40:56):
what we felt like writing. So in those trends transitional periods,
it didn't affect us. It maybe affected the Light records
because the sales weren't there, but it didn't affect us
and regards to because we weren't making that much money anyway.
But so we just were on the down in the
(41:18):
trenches trying to make it work and putting things together.
But We've always written different styles of music, so coming
from that stole R and B Era. It didn't affect us.
You know. We got JT, pulled him along and just
(41:39):
started writing songs for a vocalist and bingo, it worked.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Hey, quest Love Supreme listeners, this is Sugar Steve. We
don't like to do this, but we're stopping the episode
right there. Please come back next week. We'll look on
your podcast for you. From part two of our interview
with Funky George Brown of Clearly. In part two, he
talks about some of the band's hits in the eighties,
his new memoir Cooling the Gang in Me.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
And much much more.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh, and make sure you check out.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Cool the Gang new album, People Just Want to Have Fun.
It's made by George and another QLs guest, Ronald cool Bell,
with the rest of the gang.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
See you next time. Quest Love Supreme is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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