Black Music Month QLS Classic: Chaka Khan

For Black Music Month, Questlove Supreme is doing a special 30 days of programming from the QLS archives and new episodes alike. Today, we revisit our 2017 conversation with the award-winning, platinum-selling legendary vocalist Chaka Khan. She talks about the special origins of her name, reality-checking Mick Jagger, and how Whitney Houston's cover helped her embrace being "Every Woman."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
What up, y'all is Laiyah from Team Supreme. Okay, So
it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now,
this month and its cause was started by my godmother,
Dianna Williams, the legendary Kenny Gamble, and the great and
right back in nineteen seventy nine after being invited to
the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now,
the Black Music Association was a group of black folks

(00:31):
that were the best of the best of the music industry.
I'm talking on record execs, I'm talking radio people, I'm
talking artists. I'm talking to everybody from Clarence Avon and
Frankie Crocker to Percy Sutton, everybody in the middle right.
So they all get invited to this big party on
the White House lawn June seventh, nineteen seventy nine. And
before the performances started, President Carter said many things addressing

(00:53):
and reminding people of the importance of Black Music Month,
and one of the things he said was end quote
in many ways, the feelings of our own black citizens
throughout the history of our country has been accurately expressed
in the music, and it presents a kind of history
of our nation when you go back and see.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
The evolution of black music.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Word.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So, we've spoken a lot about Black Music Months on
Questlove Supreme, and this June we are running a different
episode from the QLs archives every single day in the
name Spirit and Cause of Black Music Month. Next up,
we have our twenty seventeen in studio conversation with the
legendary ha Ka Khan that took place out in Los Angeles,

(01:34):
and I believe that was at Jim Henson Studios.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
Really dope, o God, let us get through this theme.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
Suprema suck suck Supremo rle call suprima South South supremo
role called Suprema sum roll, Suprema Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh my god, damn, I can't believe it.

Speaker 7 (02:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:09):
So a car in the place, yeah right now sounds
like why you supremo roll called supremo rod called My.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Name is Fante, Yeah for all of y'all.

Speaker 9 (02:24):
Yeah, looking for a slow screw against the wall.

Speaker 7 (02:33):
Sup.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Sup roll call my name is Sugar, Yeah Sugar, Steve, Yeah,
Sugar Steve, Yeah, Sugar Steve Steve roll Supremo roll im
Bill and what planet we on?

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah, Questlove Supreme.

Speaker 7 (02:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
And Chaka car O.

Speaker 10 (03:02):
Some Supremo roll Suprema Son Supremo roll.

Speaker 11 (03:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (03:10):
And I don't want to see him. Yeah, Shaka Khan,
That's my favorite night in Tunisia.

Speaker 10 (03:17):
Supremo Supremo roll, Call Suprema some Supremo roll.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Chaka Khan, Yeah, Shaka Khan, Yeah, the Khan.

Speaker 13 (03:30):
Yeah, Supremo Suprema some Supremo roll, Come Suprema some some
Supremo roll, Suprema Son Son Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
All right, let us smell our heads in prayer. Lord Jesus,
please let this be a good episode. Please let us
not just too much and over praise and and stutter
and lose focus.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
I don't think you can over praise though. Seriously, I
don't think you.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
See me right now. This is the first time I'm
using the stopguard not to block my words so that
I don't see Shaka Khan stare me dead in the
face with ladies and gentlemen. Uh, welcome to another episode
of Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
This is a particular episode I've.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Been begging for all of my life, even before I
had had my own platform to ask all my favorites
questions that I've been dying to know, and our guest today,
I will absolutely say that often the the the word

(04:55):
genius gets misused, especially in light of of what is
supposed to pass for genius nowadays in twenty seventeen. But
I think that it's criminally Wait didn't I say I
wasn't going to overgo.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
I feel as though our guest.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Today has been criminally left out of that term, because
rarely are women ever considered or or spoken of in
the light that you know, the Dylan's of the world,
the Jaggers of the world, even the Jackson's of the world,
or the Rogers Nelson's of the world.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
But I, for my person, I don't know that all
opinions are subjective. But our guest today is literally one
of my favorite voices of all time. Please welcome, and
I'm using it Don Cornewi's word incomparable sun the amount

(05:59):
of the amount of stalking I've done on social media
to make this moment happen.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
How are you, man?

Speaker 3 (06:06):
I am so happy to finally like talk with you.
We see each other in passing all the time. You
know up until now, and we hug and the love
is there. But I'm just so happy to be in
this room a crazy beautiful people, you know, and you're.

Speaker 12 (06:25):
Back home because she's been to this place like millions
of time.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
We are alive at uh the former A M. Studios,
which is now Jim Henson Studios. I can assume that.
Or you said you've recorded a.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Few yeah, for two years. I should have brought a
bit really, yeah, because I was driving up here every
night from the ocean from Pacific paddle safe and that's
like culo.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
What period were you recording in the studio?

Speaker 3 (06:53):
That was about maybe four years ago? Three years yeah,
three years ago for two years?

Speaker 4 (07:00):
And we did Angelo here when you were here now yeah,
he was here for a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Was heab? No, I can't work with him, he don't
want to work.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
We we are literally going to because the thing is
that you know, I've read interviews with you throughout the years,
but no periodical that I know of has even.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Begun to.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Even try to dissect your craft. I mean, I know
about your life and you know that all that stuff,
but the your instrument, your voice, your your your your process,
those are the things I've been dying to know about
your life and I can't find that anywhere, and you know,
so we're going to start right now. So you, of

(07:59):
course you were born in I know that you were
born in Chicago.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, actually Great Lakes, Illinois on an Air Force base
where my daddy was and this is north of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
So your parents were in the forest my dad.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
So what was what was your childhood in Chicago?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Like, Well, we were what you would call middle class,
a middle class family. Both parents. I lived in the
University of Chicago, by the university and so I called
Hyde Park, and both my parents worked for university doing
My mom worked at National Research Center doing research mostly,

(08:38):
and so that was like an island in Chicago of
knowledge and people coming from other countries to attend that
great to get the knowledge. You know, I met a
lot of people from a lot of different countries, and
I think that really helped me to see people the

(09:02):
way I am, the way they are.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
So as a child, you grew up on near a
college campus, yes.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
And so, and that was cool because Chicago's pretty rough,
you know.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
And was it always rough and rough to the level
where they speak of it now.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Probably, but to different degrees and different degrees. You know,
you know Rough in nineteen forty seven, you know, it's
a different Rough than we are now. And you know
it least up and up untail. Maybe twenty years ago.
Everybody you know wasn't packing right, you know, we used
to fight. Yeah, we used our fifths. So it's a

(09:42):
really racist city. Really, yeah, it really really is. And
I had a stepmother who's white, and she and her
mother used to come. I iced a black panther when
I was a panther, and I used to go to
all my you know, panther rallies. They would come along.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
How were you when you joined the Panthers?

Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's about fourteen that young. They have be selling papers
on the corner and barefoot jeans and barefoot.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, wow, so I know that. Uh well, I never
knew what your Your sister, Taka's government name was h Yvonne. Okay,
so you you were eve that Stephens? Was he your
only sibling?

Speaker 3 (10:28):
No, I have a brother named Mark Stevens. He wrote
doing the Butt.

Speaker 11 (10:32):
Why.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, he's a bass player.

Speaker 14 (10:35):
He's a bad bad that's him playing bass on some Love.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yes, he's playing on a lot of my stuff. I
wrote that song together.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, so was you three?

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (10:49):
So how how is music introduced to you guys?

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Like, well, my daddy was what they call the beat
nick back in the day, and well that was the
bleating nick. Yeah, hippie. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
And because usually, like when I think of officers in
the I think of like a tightly wound like.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Well he got he got a dishonorable discharge. Yeah, exactly.
So you know, he used to smoke a lot of
weed and drink wine, and he take us everywhere with him.
We used to go to the point. There's this place's
point on the beach, Lake Michigan, late at night, everybody's

(11:37):
smoking weed and they're playing Kunga's and all he played
in the house every Saturday we'd be cleaning up the
house and all I heard was saxophones. In fact, I'm
named after a stan getzong. Yes, so my voice did

(12:00):
or my application didn't come from other singers. It came
from horns alto saxes.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
That explained.

Speaker 7 (12:14):
That.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
That explains everything I said a lot.

Speaker 12 (12:17):
How did you know the same way like he does
the same kind of something similar, Right.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
The thing I mean, the thing.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
The thing with Shaka's art is that she's probably one
of the few singers who, even though it's under a
pop music backdrop, when you're a vocal delivery, it's that
of a horn. It's it's it's it's linear, and it's
never like circular. Like even think of any song that

(12:44):
you ever heard of her, Like people have to commit
commit to memory the way her vocals go. I mean,
I mean, some songs are you know, have a pattern
to it, like uh, like this is My Night has
a you know, but then some songs are like like
Stay doesn't necessarily have a melody, but you you have

(13:07):
to you have to make yourself committed. It's like studying
a saxophone solo or whatever, you know, where stuff goes.
And she's one of the rare artists in black music
that really gets to enjoy the luxury of not of
color outside the boundaries, and and people take to it
because it's really hard to you know, the rules of
pop music is that it has to be simple and memorable.

(13:29):
So that's sort of what separates them from the peck.
So I I had a conversation with when I first
met Andre Fisher. He used to be like president of
my label. Like way back when I was on the
m c A. He said that he met you in
a bowling alley, or like, were you in a band.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Then or was he I was another band? Actually I
was with Rufus when they were all white guys. I
was there was There was a time when it was
fashionable to have all white musicians and a black chick
out front. Yeah, something like that, and you know many

(14:12):
it was a great friend of mine. In fact, you
know I covered a song that she did, hild Step. Yeah, yeah,
you baby. It was a pleasure to talk to somebody.
You know what I'm saying. But what was the question?
Was I singing?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Well, you were singing with Rufus back when they were
asked Rufus?

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Uh? Were they?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Were you in the group when I was in the
group and it was called ask Rufus? They were the
original ben me, ben me, shaped me anyway, you won't
me as long as you love me, That's what they were.
I forget the name American American breed. Yes, and then
they morphed into Rufus and Al Seiner, Dennis Bell Fields.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Lollie was in the group for a second, for a.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Minute, Willy Willy, how that happened?

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Well, and lose will like one of the greatest bass players.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, you know Willie, you know he's the areas you
got some other callings.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I know he went to Donne Hathaway.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yes he did, Yes, he did, and rocked that and
he you know, he had got the Willie rock you
know how you play. Yeah, he's one of my all
time favorite bass players on the planet. Him and what's
his name? I think, who played on all of my
stuff during the eighties?

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Well not not Uh can I forget his name now
I'm trying to remember Willie.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
No, no, no, no, give it to me, baby.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Is the basis, he's the best bass player on the planet.
I used to really Anthony Jackson, oh my god, all
through the eighties.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Okay, I'm gonna skip one thing because in my mind,
when you were working on doing your Warner Brother stuff,
I thought that Arif used the heart of a w
B like Steve Stewart.

Speaker 14 (16:19):
But Allan Gory not playing bass for any of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
I know he played on one or two songs. Yeah.

Speaker 14 (16:26):
Wow, So that whole time I'm thinking a w B
was your I mean I was eight years old.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Well, it was. It was mainly uh, just Hamish playing
guitar and you know, singing backgrounds. But I think I
was proud of the first chick or musician to sing
her own backgrounds, you know what, because I was we
were doing we were doing our first album and it

(16:51):
needed background. So I said, well, let me let me
pick some background girls. So I went through like twelve people,
twelve girls, and they couldn't do what I wanted them
to do. So I said, look, since you got three tracks.
They said yeah, okay, So I'm gonna sing the backgrounds myself.
And I had to tell the guy that you engineer,

(17:12):
how we're gonna do it, and we do it, and
we got it fast.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
You know, the community of Chicago full of a lot
of musicians. I mean Chris Mainfield, I know, Leroy Hudson
and yes, all the greats like were you were any
of those people, You're contemporaries like you'd see them in
bar bands and even the Chicago guys like Satara or

(17:38):
is it from Chicago?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (17:42):
Now I know that nonles uh.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Nonals from sticks is from Uh.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
Let's not go down the sticks rabbit holes.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
No, no, no, But I'm just I know Dennis Young's
from there. But I'm just saying.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
That in.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
In that period, how about you into these people I'm running.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
I was running to jazz with like the Chicago Arts Ensemble.

Speaker 14 (18:07):
Did you ever work with Charles Stephanie or no?

Speaker 3 (18:10):
But I just I met him. I didn't get to
meet him, and I was like, didn't know who I
was meeting, you know, you know what I'm saying. And
then after I met him, I start, uh, he I
found out that he did that whole album Hey Love
and my God, yeah, my god, that is. In fact,

(18:31):
there's another song called Concrete Canyon that I want to cover.
Really that girl he had, Minie Riverertions, was singing now
mind you, but there was another gospel woman singing. Minnie
Ribertion was doing mostly backgrounds. But this woman I can't

(18:51):
remember her name. I probably never knew it, but I'm
telling you she sang love is falling on Me and
and I I used almost all her licks there perfect.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
So that's who you listen to. That's who you I
listen to.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Miles Davis. Miles Davis was my friend, you know, my pal.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
What's your favorite period of his? Like, what what did
you gravitate.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Right now, I'm just on some to To. Really, I
wrote words. I've even written words to most of the
songs on to To. My favorite song on the album
is uh Thomas really, Oh my.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
God, See, now you're going to make me reconsidered.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
To To you got to?

Speaker 3 (19:42):
That was my Thomas Thomas is the second song.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
No, I know I know it well, but but.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Listen to it. Listen and listen. And then he got
what's his name is the bass player?

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Miller?

Speaker 3 (19:53):
He produced the album and he's playing his clarinet too.
That is like, uh, that whole album is like a
work of art.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
And you know, you're literally going to make me reconsidered.
Not that I've underestimated.

Speaker 12 (20:07):
It, but we're intellectualized.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Listen, just stopping in terms of like.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, Marcus Miller playing bass and and and come on
and what's his name on trumpet memories?

Speaker 12 (20:27):
What could that be?

Speaker 7 (20:27):
Shocking?

Speaker 3 (20:30):
I need help?

Speaker 4 (20:34):
You know what?

Speaker 14 (20:34):
Now that I think of it, I can easily hear
you something.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
I can hear you.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
I can hear you on to that could have been?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
That could have been?

Speaker 12 (20:47):
Bring that back, man, you know, make the put the
words please that stuff.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
I have words already to a lot of the.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
You're like Eddie Jefferson, just adding adding words to existing
jazz songs. Have you ever heard of Eddie's version of
a Bitches Brew?

Speaker 2 (21:07):
No?

Speaker 13 (21:07):
I have not.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
He literally foot words to everything to the groove. You
never heard it that I've heard, Yeah, but I haven't heard.

Speaker 12 (21:19):
Gave us something please?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah that sounds like Yeah. When I heard this, it's
it's crazy. Yeah, this is Eddie Jefferson Bitches Brew on
Quest Love, Supreme.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
Green Snag.

Speaker 9 (21:42):
And this sounds like the Missing Next tapes.

Speaker 7 (21:48):
Whoa wait, fires where from?

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yo?

Speaker 1 (22:10):
That listen?

Speaker 15 (22:15):
I like that yo hitting Miles of ath.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
I'm sure he did. I love it with like a doll.
He dogged them.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Put lyrics to anything that shouldn't have lyrics to it.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, but then turned into his I gotta skip to
the group part. I'm sorry, boss Bill, I know I'm
getting your.

Speaker 12 (22:48):
Said Miles would not approve, but I mean, you.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Know, he he looks.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
That is not good.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
We was listening to them, was listening to the Breaker
Brothers really being Miles. Okay, after your snorted like a
whole crack of coke.

Speaker 12 (23:05):
Now, when you say a crack, I know I mean crack.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
I mean a whole lot of coke. Okay, his whole
face into it, and so.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
And the club down seventh Avenue South, why why? And
we sitting right in the front of the small club,
we sitting looking up their nose. That's while they're playing.
And after one song, Miles said, white boys can't play
no hard. Everybody could hear you know, it was like,

(23:37):
bring me up study. He would tell it like it is.
And then the pregnant woman walked in with a tight
dress and he said to me, she wore that ship anyway.
He was so funny.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
You have to free Eddie Jefferson. I know you're like,
but I do.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
That's that took a lot.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
He's got some better stuff than this.

Speaker 12 (24:07):
He's got some moments in this chameleon.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Oh God, he didn't comeleon to.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh it's the best I was was he was?

Speaker 4 (24:16):
He he's a vocalist. I mean he take notes.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Please of stuff I have to do.

Speaker 12 (24:21):
I will you what you got to pay up.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
I will hook you. I will hook you up.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Remember the end of this thing, because for your concrete canyon.
Have you heard that song?

Speaker 4 (24:34):
I want to hear that.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
You got to hear?

Speaker 12 (24:36):
Can we hear?

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I will found it actually his daughter's huff.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
And his daughter I know, she call me.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
They Yeah, they have a room full of like all
his arrangements and sitting in the attic and yeah, into
that there.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
You will go together.

Speaker 12 (24:57):
About to dive in.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
I always wanted to know, like, damn, why didn't you
two work together? Because I think you two could have
pushed each other crazy to the limits.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
He could have. Yeah, well, alf Martin said that I
was his instrument.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
You were.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And we're going to break down the the the whole
bebop metalley thing because I don't know how in the
hell you crafted that. But that's that's later later, that's later,
we'll get to it. So for the first for the
how did you how did you guys get your deal? Like,
because the first Roofless record, I mean it came out

(25:33):
when I was a kid, but I definitely remember, like
I remember Slipping Slide I loved because that.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Whole well, I started out singing that kind of music
that was and that was you know that was some
hill billy Yeah, sorry, that was that was real some
really country yeah music. That's how I started and and

(26:00):
and I think that's great that. I mean, it's because
I want to sing everything. I want to be able
to do everything, you know, everything, but Chinese such folks songs.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
The band was the band aware of your powers? Or
have you even reached the level of your power yet
where you're like.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Wait a minute, no, no, it's ongoing. It is really Yeah.
I just finished almost finished doing Johnny Mitchell CD all
my favorite songs by her, and Jacques Pastorius is playing
bass with her. That was my favorite time for her

(26:46):
before he died. Yeah, and my god, I want some
of these young people because she's a philosopher. She puts
it down and I just did it. I did my
favorite songs like her and added some salt and peppers
and some hot sauce. Yeah, because she's funky.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
It's funny you say that because I always thought that
ask Rufus was your hissing of the summer lawns, Like
I always thought, yeah, that was that was your your
your your, not to her era.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
So what was like, what.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Was the the the original incarnation of Rufus?

Speaker 4 (27:28):
I know that had Kevin.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Ken Andre Fisher on drums.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
But the other guys, like how how did they leave?

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Like, well, you know what would happened? You don't happened.
We were on ABC Downhill. It's it's gone. You know,
nobody even knows what that is, but it was a
record company at one time and a guy in anyway
we got we all know what that is.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
I had the record I remember the Local Born in nineteen.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Ninety six, right, something like that.

Speaker 12 (28:03):
So I'm listening anyway, what was.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
The what was damn?

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Like me?

Speaker 4 (28:09):
I wanted to know.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
I wanted to know the phase in from the first
Rufous album two uh, what would eventually be the raxter Rufous,
which then would lead to like when yeah, yeah, when
the Brothers came in?

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah? So how did how did the first here's what happened?
How did it implude?

Speaker 3 (28:30):
How did it happened? All the white guys had no patience.
They wanted is this interview over yet? I just used
that word as a descriptive word. Okay, keep going, I
don't care, don't get old. Right when it we hit

(28:59):
right just before then, they had all decided to quit
because they didn't think it was going anywhere. What I know,
they were kicking themselves in the back of the head
when we blew up on the second album.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
What yes, So they approached you and said.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, well, Paultte McWilliams was singing lead before me. We
were working on a strip called Rush Street in Chicago.
It was about five blocks of rock clubs and live
music and it was a you know, a lot of
people came from out of town, you know, hang there
and getting messed up and this is some good music.

(29:37):
So I was working at a club called Rush Up.
There's Rush Up, Rush over, and Rufus was playing right
across the street. Now, the black girl that was singing
with them before me, her name was Paultte McWilliams. On
my brakes, I'd run across the street and hear that

(29:58):
band because they were doing an original songs and stuff.
And but Rufus and I were, uh, we were saying,
no the other band, I was the name? What was
the name of them? Oh? No, no, that was my
African group when I was a child Africa.

Speaker 12 (30:14):
I need to know your African group when you was
a child.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Wait a minute before anything, how did you get your
Monika the music?

Speaker 4 (30:24):
How did you become from that?

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Stephen Sashaka Khan Okay, that's my spiritual name I was.
But yes, yes, I became Europa. Yeah, yeah, from Nigeria
and and uh we were working at the Afro Arts
Theater with the Pharaohs.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Okay, this is you got.

Speaker 12 (30:43):
To talk about that transition. So black panther into Europa
or it was close.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
You know, it's is black, but it was it was
it was doing my you know, you know I was
you was black and yeah, I wo.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
And I was awoke.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah and this is and I was with them when
I was like twelve whicheen panthers. No, your became your riding.
And they had a naming ceremony. Everybody had the name.
So every year a baba would come to America to
where we were and do naming uh ceremonies and they

(31:19):
would name you according to when you were born, what
kind of person you were, blah blah blah blah. So
it took me a couple of years, you know, till
they were ready to name me, and that My African
name is Shaka. I do name, I do fay moya dar.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Say it again, Shaka, which.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Means fire and warriors. Yes, I do name means one
who loves to be touched. I do fee means one
who many compete to touch. Woman of waters war with
waters u k strength and uh.

Speaker 12 (32:01):
Now does that translations sound like she was damn fine
as strong as hell?

Speaker 14 (32:07):
I was, okay, and Boom was that her name?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Now you know what she was like. We're a year
and six months apart, Okay, so we're very close in age.
We were like the same height and everything. People thought
we were. We're not really twins, but we wore the
same clothes. My mother made him everything I did, she did.
She picked her own name. It's just Taka and boom.

(32:37):
Taka Boom came from her husband she had. His name
was John Brumbach. He was a sex player and they
call him Boom. Okay, So shocking, Taca.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Not always to educate you, because I know it's.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
About me, it's about right now.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
We don't know.

Speaker 12 (32:57):
You need to explain that every episode the thing done.
You're not gonna say nothing, You're gonna.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Keep going on. No, I'm gonna explain to you.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
So, uh, Motown staff producer Norman Whitfield left Motown.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
That's she worked a lot with Normaloo. In fact, I
had to go down there and and I almost whoopded
this behind because he didn't pay her money.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
I went down there.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
I said, oh no, you fitting to pay her.

Speaker 12 (33:21):
Oh what were you going to do?

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Okay from Chicago, I have find many a tree. I'm
a tree girl.

Speaker 12 (33:32):
Yeah, I like climbing.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
So yeah, one of one of the North one of
Norman's groups. It was kind of a afrofuturist group.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Just read the truth.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
That's what My sister was in that.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Group, so she joined in nineteen seventy six. They had
a song called You plus Me and.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
I wish she'd come here. She's going to be so
happy to know that, you know that.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
Where is she?

Speaker 1 (33:52):
She love talking about? I love me some tacobo, I
love her. I was in first grade, but I love
me some talking anyway. Yeah, so it was, you know,
like her sister also.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Was you know how you know how the oldest and
in the second oldest they always you know.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
And Erica so now with damn. So you're telling me
that they didn't have enough patience to wait write it
out and see what's what happened with.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
What happened with the album? We just did okay the
second album and they all quit okay and then to
see the uh tell me something good or whatever, tell
me something good, erects whatever it was. I forget what
the first was killing me whatever came out, and we'd

(34:49):
already Bobby and Tony had already stepped in.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
So who was who was the leader or the established?
Was it Kevin was?

Speaker 3 (34:58):
It was a quiet kind of leader.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
He's like the father organizer of the group. Like who
was the or were you guys just totally just it.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
Was Andre what it was democratic? Yeah, we had to
vote on every song. I sang a lot of songs,
uh that I did not want to sing like music
man really playing a song for me, Come on, pick
me a break. You know. I liked some intelligence like
my my uh my granddaughter wrote a song called love Intelligence.

(35:31):
Really yeah, when she was a little girl about to
say she was about three. This is Belini's daughter, my
first starter, and she was loved intelligence. That's what I want,
love intell three, Yes, Sonny intelligence. So yeah, I'm like,

(35:56):
you know, it's important to me that a person can,
you know, articulate their feelings and their thoughts. If I'm
reading the book and I see one misspelled, one word misspelled,
I want to kill the book and kill the person
who wrote the book. I don't play that. You know,

(36:17):
it's important. Girls are texting about like That's what I
was just thinking, like, yeah, so I'm a real I'm
real big on communication and words. I read a great deal.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
And anyway, so with with x Rufus our previous guests,
Ray Parker j.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Yeah, the best stories.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
But he told us a very curious story about you
know him explained to Stevie Wonder that he wanted to
leave Wonder Love and write songs independently. And and uh,
he kind of insinuated that Stevie only submitted tell me
something good to you guys as a means to sort

(37:11):
of cock block Ray Parker Jr.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Is you got the love? In other words, like you know.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
I wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
He was.

Speaker 14 (37:23):
Basically, how how did you meet with Ray Parker Jr.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
I don't remember how I'm at him okay, but we
did write a song together. I think that one of
the band members, Tony or somebody maybe I don't know
or even you know, our producer at that time. I
might have known him and brought him in and then
we wrote we wrote the song to get song together

(37:57):
that he wrote the guitar and I wrote the words. Yeah,
it's easy like that. People think it takes rocket science
or it takets ten years to write a song. I mean,
I'm in the studio, I could do it. See a
whole CD, you know, and what a prince and I
We did that whole CD in two weeks?

Speaker 1 (38:17):
That comes to my house?

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yes, CD, okay, in two weeks.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Some people work fast, and you know, well.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Some people trust themselves. They trust themselves, you know. And
that's what he and I had in common. I wrote
the poems, came back the next day, he had the
music to it.

Speaker 12 (38:38):
So is there like inspiration for every song? Or is
it just that easy that they just come to you
and it's like this really doesn't have anything to do
with me or anything, but it sounds dope. I know
people appreciate it.

Speaker 16 (38:47):
No.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
I I think when I'm writing, will I be able
to live with this song in twenty years? Will I
be embarrassed? That's weird?

Speaker 1 (38:59):
That a good thought, And that explains a lot about
your filler on your solo records, because you know, especially
between Shaka and and uh, what's what was after? What
You're gonna do for me?

Speaker 4 (39:18):
It came out? Yeah, okay, so much for from soccer
to soccer. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
There's at least four or five songs that are like
I'm like, yo, this goes hard, like how did I?

Speaker 4 (39:32):
How did I?

Speaker 5 (39:33):
You know?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
I mean stuff that weren't wasn't single like Fate Night Moves, Yeah,
I love you like all those things still go hard today,
like in clubs, and it's just time.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Information, you know, good information. It it's timeless you did
if you're saying something that has an application and will
apply you know throughout time you're doing something. That's what
Dion Cole said, This is true. You have to think

(40:07):
about you.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Know, Chicago Chicago philosophy.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Wow, so uh would tell me something good? I know
that Stevie Wonder said that you had rejected I'm also.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Oh no, I rejected the first song I'm see.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
I'm a big fan of Serrita's second album.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
And I know that he had initially given you either
spinning around or come and get the stuff from Serita's
second album, and you rejected it. And then he came
back with tell me something good.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
You know what he did was he came to the
studio Bob Monico, God bless his soul. We didn't believe
he was coming. He said, how'd you guys like to
work with Stevie Wonder. We said yeah, right, and the
next night he was there. Now I was about to deliver.
I was very pregnant, huh. And so it's funny. He

(41:05):
was trying to you know, talk smack, you know to me.
Uh and he didn't know, you know, I was pregnant.
But that was good. So he played. He said, he
sat down here at the piano. He scept okay, yeah,
listen to this. So we listened, and everybody's looking at me,
the guys. I said, I don't like it. What else

(41:27):
she got? He said, what's sher birth? Soign? I said, ay, piscy.
He said, oh, I got the song for you. Yeah,
because you're a boss.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
So he just literally played the songs. I was gonna say, like,
how did he demo songs back then? Like did he
just sit there and sing it to you?

Speaker 3 (41:47):
And what he did, well, he started playing the chords
and he was like, huh. Well, see what people don't
know is that we wrote it together. But I gave
him all the credit because I was so honored and happy,
you know that he was there with us and I
didn't know nothing about the music business about to say.

Speaker 7 (42:11):
The word.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
And write. We co wrote it wort, the regrets, any
non none, the learning experience. You know, that's how you learned, girl.
The best way to learn is to mess up.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
That's well, what what was it like working with five Monaco?

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Because he's wonderful, really, he's a great guy. He was
a hustler.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Like hustlers because the thing is that he he technically
only stayed with you guys up until Ruth sized. And
you know, my thought or my theory was that, you know,
as each album progresses, you're coming to your own as
far as doing like orthodox experiments and stuff. And I'm like, well,

(43:04):
if I'm a staff producer at a record label, I'm
trying to figure out, how are you able to conduct
these experiments in your background vocal game? And I'm certain
that someone's saying, like, no, that's the wrong note.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Like I did it all the time, I said, because
he would write it what I was singing. It don't
work on paper, but it work on the ears. I
told him, I said, I'm singing this and it works.
Does it sound good?

Speaker 4 (43:32):
He said?

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Or those wonderful those but good on the paper. When
I said, I don't care, I can't ready.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I was going to say, if Bob never challenged you,
or none of the guys ever challenged you, Like, I
don't know if that blending.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Works well, rufus. The guys they were really like my
big brothers and fathers. I was shut in after they
were here. It's not a pretty story, but you know,
they would keep me, keep me messed up. Then they

(44:17):
would wind me up to go on stage. Then afterwards
I go back to my hotel room. Each one of them,
I don't know if they got together and said you
go first, you go second. Each one would come to
my room, do a walk through, make sure nobody was there,
and then and make sure I was I had my stuff,

(44:40):
and they left. I used to sneak out sometimes in
some of the weirdest, deepest darkest places railroad tracks and stuff,
just to get out.

Speaker 12 (44:53):
How old are you at this point?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I was twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Two, but by this point, I mean your varieties is growing.
How are you because you did get married, or you
were married at the point, how are you able.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
To find anybody to marry me? Just like I guess well,
I didn't marry a very good guy because I had
you know his name, Richard Holland.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, well, and Jet I remember he had like feathered hair.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
I'm forgetting.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Well he was adopted, you know he's actually Italian.

Speaker 5 (45:36):
And white.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Well look at you, Yeah, I'm international con I'm man anyway, Yeah,
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Really you know, Yeah, I remember those photos in jet
and I remember he had like feathered hair.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah he was.

Speaker 12 (45:54):
But what did the panthers say?

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I just had a I never talked to the panthers.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
About that, you know, infiltrated them all the crack.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
You know, the my son didn't mind in the Europe
and you know, well, you know, I've been through many
you know things. You know, I've been many things on
many pairs of shoes. You did. And I have a
lot of stuff to talk to, to offer, you know,

(46:29):
I don't often get the chance. I wrote a book,
you know, call through the Car, and it was good,
but you know what, it's I've lived a whole other
life since that book.

Speaker 12 (46:42):
So when's the next book.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Well, it's gonna come as somebody. We're going to do it,
you know, but I have to have patience for that,
and I don't have the patience really.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
So with uh, I noticed that the one thing about
your your albums with Rufus is that there are various
combinations and incarnations of the actual name of the group.
Raxter Rufus was Rufus with Shaka Khan.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
Rufus size was featuring.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Featuring three players like Rufus and Shaka like it was
just one name basis. And I know that when you're
in a group dynamic, even if you are the lead singer,
like when you're singled out, it becomes awkward because that's
usually when the separation periods.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
I didn't want it. I loved being part of a group.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
So was it the record company?

Speaker 3 (47:43):
The record made that change and that was the beginning
of the end for us.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
How did the band feel about that?

Speaker 3 (47:51):
They felt like crap. So it did not like it
at all, So I didn't.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Did you guys have management by the time.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Robert Allis Silverstein that is is Diana Ross's husband, that
was her husband at the time.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
So I mean you was there no explain to him like, look,
you know when you guys like single me out and
leave those guys out, it's there's an unfair balance and
it's more important to have the greater good chemistry of
the band as opposed to make me a start that's.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Felt guilty I felt I had real deep guilt about it.
You know, I still have feel some kind of way.
But you know that's over talk. Do you speak? Yeah, well,
you know we hadn't for a while and now we
just got back together. We just did a great what
do you call it? Documentary? Yes, well, just we're just

(48:51):
finishing it up, just just finished. We're putting music to
it down. It will be out. I think by December are.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
People out the commentation without me?

Speaker 12 (49:01):
Another one you wasn't around around. Not to not.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
To generation is going to contextualize the importance of rufus.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Look, you ain't chopliver. You should do that now too. Yeah,
well you should because you are very well.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Yeah he do know.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Jesus a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
You didn't want to be a teacher.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
I teach. I didn't.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
When you when you're growing up, did you want to?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
I didn't want to be a teacher.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
But once, when you're on the internet and you watch millennials,
uh get dismissive. Actually, okay, I'm gonna use this moment
to throw Solange under the bus. Shots fire no one
of our first You know, Solange is a sponge and
you know, she's like her like educate me what to

(49:58):
give me and for or a lot of like ask
rufe is is my litmus test to see how deep
you are into the She failed it for the first
year she had a d D. She didn't pay attention.
I'm trying to explain to her because the thing is like,
you can't love Prince without loving what he And I'm like, man, dude,

(50:21):
this Claire Fisher, like you hear these strings like you're
talking about parade, you need it, And she just like
I don't get it, like you know, it's slow and sad,
and I had to explain to her.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
So eventually she got it, but it was like two
years later.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
But I mean it was a lot of conversations like
that that.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
Led me to.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Perhaps you missed your calling, I said. I said that
to quite a few singers and musicians when somebody come
to me and say, how do you hit high notes?

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Well, actually, then.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
That question the hind note.

Speaker 12 (51:03):
A singer asked that maybe it's just not your called.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Maybe you should look at it something else.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
So do you do you?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Are you the breakout and song at any moment person
to warm your voice, or are you the variety of
where you got me.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
No, I don't do that, so that's crazy. I get
on stage and I'm warmed up by the third song.
I do a natural warming up with the people. Really
we keep it real. I can't.

Speaker 12 (51:34):
No, you don't have no leg went, this.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Is this guy that trains a lot of people. Yes,
I went. My sister Tammy took me to see him.
When you open the door song, he said, what do
you want? Really, I said, I don't know I want.
I came for help. He said, help you what? So

(51:58):
he did tell me one thing though. Y uh. He
said that I sing natural and a capella. I mean
uh and no, I sing natural and high notes what
you call falsetta at the same time. And he found that,
you know, that's that's doesn't happen. And then uh, my

(52:23):
throat doctor says, I have a in the back of
my vocal cord. There's a little like dome which helps
for projection, helps projections. It's a birth birth. Yes, So
she got a dome in a throat dome in the
back of my vocal cord, and it yeh okay, good,

(52:48):
I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna really, I'm gonna put
that online I'm getting X ray from my throat.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
I totally believe that.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
I mean, no, this is the thing though, and especially
with black people that you know, for a lot of us,
there's this perception of like, sorry, there's this perception of
natural talent and they're really they're really not being a
science to it, and we're just blong with it. We

(53:25):
don't work, I know, but I feel it it is
a science. I think that maybe it's up to observers
like me or whoever.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
I mean, I don't know how to you know.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
No tape music and that sort of stuff, to explain
people like this is not normal, like this is a
this is a solar eclipse moment, like this is a
once in a lifetime a rival thing.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
So it's just.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
You know, I know that you're saying like this is
naturally and I believe you, But I also believe that
there is.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
A science too. I believe that to the genius. I mean,
but I'm glad that you know.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
For you, it's just like an effortless like Stefan Curry
just every sid it just goes in three nothing.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
But you know, I think I test when singers. Yet
people go to say I'm a singer, I say sing now, no, yes.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
You do that?

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Yeah, I could do it, but no, see that ain't.

Speaker 12 (54:29):
Fair if why not if you're gonna approach yourkacan and
say you're a singer, forget about the right. But I mean,
if you're a singer saying you're a singer and you
don't need how many.

Speaker 14 (54:41):
How many rides to the challenge though when you be like,
all right.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Sing a couple in your in your life, come.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
On now, don't like you're not like you don't know
you Godzilla approaching a lizard like.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Counds out to me and says, I'm a singer.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Sing lizard. But you know, but you realize when you
say that, you gotta know that even hearing this hypothetical story,
and I'm not the singer I'm who would want to
sing in front of Chaka Khan?

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Well they can't. Who would want to say to me,
I almost sing?

Speaker 12 (55:21):
They don't think they're gonna get say can you sing?

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Or can you sang? And if they say I can sang,
that say sang? Right now?

Speaker 4 (55:29):
All right?

Speaker 1 (55:29):
So let me let me test you, Let me test
you on your contemporaries. So save someone like so has
has Vesta Williams and her unknown phase ever come to
you and been like, hey, your midel I sing too.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yes, and I hired her. She's from the school, Chakra
Khan School of Music. I have several women who are
famous today your students, students of the Chakra kan School
of Music. And it ain't pretty. They got to sing,
I want to know.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
So you put your background singers through the.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Ringer and guess well, they love it. They love the challenge,
you know, and they you know they love it. Who
are some of your more other proud pupils I should
say what name them? I mean they there?

Speaker 4 (56:16):
H hell, Lisa Fisher can Yeah, to be schooled by
Shaka and Luther.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Victor Wow.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Morgan. Okay.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
I've had several several women and they have to sing
and they have to do and it ain't easy. It's
not easy. But the girls I got right now, I
think I found just hit the mother load with these girls.
They sing like one person singing harmony.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Are they sisters or no?

Speaker 3 (56:55):
It's uh uh okay yam Tony scrugs. That's my baby.
Everybody can't approach her. And she's not for clowns. She's serious.

Speaker 12 (57:12):
She really went to your school.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
Yes, Tony's a beast, I.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Know her, Audrey Wheeler and uh Tiffany, Tiffany, yes, Lauren. Wow,
so these three girls, uh killing, they're killing, they killing.

Speaker 9 (57:29):
I was always curious to know did you ever work
with or have any dealings with Tata Vega because I
always thought, yeah, love.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Was each song I love?

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Okay, she's she's a beast.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Yeah, excuse me, there are quite a few beasts. There
are a few beasts out there.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Can I can I ask you honestly, when if this
were the seventies or the eighties, would you still acknowledge
that or give it up? If someone was dope, Like,
all right, I give it up, You're dope, You're good.
You would always like that because it's different in hindsight,

(58:12):
and when you're you're the sage elder statesman, you know
they're like, yoh yeah, I always love.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
Because I know that.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Probably the only other figure in this world of music
that could stand close to you. She wasn't too forthcoming
with the compliments and the and the and the encouragement
if someone could sing as good as her.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
She was the queen.

Speaker 14 (58:45):
Thank you, you just wanted to.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Let's let's talk about it.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I like that. Really, she loves me. I love her.

Speaker 12 (58:57):
You know your fingers aren't crossed now I'm doing it
like that.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
And that's some rare things when people.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Come and talk and come and say you're the queen said,
oh no, no, I'm the lady and waiting as the
long as read is alive, she's the queen. That's the queen.
Get your stuff right. Have you heard us sing Moodies
Move for Love?

Speaker 10 (59:18):
No?

Speaker 12 (59:19):
No, no, every version that.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
You heard Harmony hell, you.

Speaker 12 (59:29):
Know I collect Moodies Move versions and nineteen like those
are my two songs.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
So you know when I told you that I have
some dance ward clearers. Okay, So one night I was like,
all right, I'm gonna play read this version.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
Because it's a fast jazz version.

Speaker 12 (59:51):
All right, I'll play for yourown. I'm just joking.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I' sorry, but I do like that's go go man,
you know, almost paint it. Okay, almost fainted?

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
All right, I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I'm about to faint.

Speaker 12 (01:00:07):
This is like, this is my song.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
I looked into any singer for anything, I looked to
her first. She's that she can do anything.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Okay, So this is so Quincy Jones produced.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Hey now hey, the other side of the sky, and
they did a speed fast version of Moody's mood. All right,
this is uh Moody's Mood by Aretha Franklin The Queen
nineteen seventy three, produced by Quincy Jones on Quest seventy three.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Yep.

Speaker 17 (01:00:38):
I was.

Speaker 12 (01:00:44):
Now go now, go now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
There there I never.

Speaker 10 (01:00:54):
Such funny thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
But you want to have against play, you give us
you go around crazy, he said.

Speaker 12 (01:01:01):
He's gon talk me close and here close to time,
he says, coming do with me in and you want
to show me your next studio.

Speaker 16 (01:01:08):
Man, you're saying the new orde every day and your
eyes eyes at y'all like styles of Obama said sky
power power.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I would like your baby come here.

Speaker 12 (01:01:20):
You don't have no man, here's the one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
While I'm really feeling in the mood follow.

Speaker 12 (01:01:24):
So tell me why stop to think about this?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Well, the my DearS, there's not a dream.

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
I dreaming about it, but everything coming to They want
to come, but I do honts together.

Speaker 12 (01:01:34):
He would make us song pray wool and will what
not abrad not a right? He Bama's go on and
not a rat too.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
I'm going to the New York you know, what the lyrics,
James really this jo see yes he did? I forgot.

Speaker 12 (01:01:57):
Right now, James Woody, Oh no, no, Jefferson.

Speaker 11 (01:02:05):
Understand.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Yes, but that's.

Speaker 16 (01:02:11):
My lord.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
She's the queen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
But I'm just saying that, I'm just saying that oftentimes,
I mean, there's two types of there's two types of
people in which those are kind of nurturing and they'll
encourage who's coming up next, and those are sort of
stand office. And I'm saying that I feel like that's

(01:02:33):
the difference between you and her is that you will
give praise where praises do where I've heard stories that
she you know, you really have to knock her out
in order to get her respect, which you know, I mean,
it makes you just work.

Speaker 12 (01:02:52):
Harder, But it makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
She just lives. She's she really lives from her toes
to the top of her head what she is. And
we haven't heard everything that she's capable of. I'm telling
you there's some stuff every I mean, I'm always hearing

(01:03:16):
new stuff by her. The fact that, come on, she
came from the church. She sang R and B and blues,
but to sing jazz like that, See, jazz is cerebral music.
To me, you have to be a thinking person with

(01:03:37):
a good mind, with a mind intact to mess with
that music. I feel like I'm only kissing the hymn
of the dress of the Lady called Jazz. What, Yes,
I think that's mine.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Not even a brown News moment from I kind of
make the difference. I make the difference.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
You've well, they threw me in the studio and they
had to come find me. I was running away from
echoes of an era. I was scared. I was scared
to sing.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
Jack.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
You made a challenge that you couldn't that that was
slow to well, no, no, I'm not saying that. You
know you're going to swim like an Olympian the second
they throw you in the water.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
But they came and my ex came and found me,
dragged me to the studio. Chick Corea said, he said,
oh there you are. I said, how am I going
to this? And he said, just sing, just sang.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
But you did it, Yes, you did do it? All right?

Speaker 17 (01:04:41):
So with.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
With the self titled record? First of all, who who
came up with the logo and the idea of the
lips bob Ellas?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Because I gotta tell you, man, all right, so I'm
like five years old and this back when like groups
used to put posters inside of records, and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
So, you know, I'm like five years old, and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
This big ass poster with lips is like It's one
thing when it's daylight and you see it, But when
you're sleep at night and it's like zero o'clock in
the morning and like you see these lips staring at
you in your bedroom, it's like it.

Speaker 14 (01:05:31):
Whose idea was that? Like was it a matchter Rolling Stones?

Speaker 17 (01:05:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
I think that he had. You know, he was really
a successful guy at and he was and he was
good at something.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Bob Bells was the president of ABC or no, no, no,
Bob Bels your manager. I'm sorry, I'm thinking of this,
but you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
He booked us opening for the Stones for three shows
in one day. We did one show.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
How was it?

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
It was amazing? It was unbelievable. But I did tell
Big Jacket he can't sing. I did, and he looked
at the guy like because he wasn't. We were in
the hotel jamming, you know, after the gig one night

(01:06:25):
at the hotel, and everybody brought out their acoustics and
stuff and we were singing songs. He always was messing
up the dang song. You know, we're trying to sing something.
He kept messing up. You know, I said, wait, you
know what you can't sing? I think, and I hope

(01:06:46):
wan want to remember something like that wouldn't one.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
I was hoping, you know that Ruby Tuesdays pretty good. Soon.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Look they got a vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
They do what they do, they sing their songs.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
They sing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
He would admit that, you know, he's not a singer singer,
but you know good he was like he took are
you really defendent?

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
Know, I'm saying he sold a lot from Tina Turner.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
I thought more than anybody actually, you know, image wise,
I will probably say that, you know, how did you
feel about the whole the sex symbol image that was
Shaka Khan by, you know, by the third or fourth.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Record, Like, yeah, I I you know what, excuse me.
I didn't care for it. I really didn't. That's out
where my head was at.

Speaker 12 (01:07:41):
Did it make your life harder?

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Yes, it did.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
It did as far as your your your domestic life
at home, or how the guys felt.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Yes, every guy I've been with, which is not that
really that many. When I go on the road to work.
That all always accuse me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
It was problematic form in the band.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
I said, look, if I was gonna do something like that,
I would not take complain to Booty but Arkansas, okay
to do it. I can stay right here in my
nice house and go out there tonight, you know, and
just you know a lot of guys secure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, Wait, can I ask?

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
Was Kevin Christopher ever a member of the group or
with a.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Group called Life?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Okay Life?

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
And he taught me how to play how to play drums.
He started to be playing drums, so who was Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
So there was a guy on the Rufous Size record
that had an afro. I don't know who was he?

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Nate Morgan keyboard player?

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
So you always had two keyboard players and rufous At.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Kind of yes we did because Kevin was always there.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
Okay, Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
And how did who How did Bob in Tony officially
getting Because when I was younger, I thought that Bobby
Watson was Tony. I thought he was the voice of
the male voice, always singing, And then when I was older,
I was like, oh, that was Tony Maid.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Yeah, and they played with with he played or organ player.
He just died a couple of years ago. Preston. Yes,
they were with the Billy Preston band and yeah, and
they stopped with Billy because he wanted to go and
go around and sing with us and play with other people.

(01:09:36):
So we hired them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
And was it your recommendation or like did they know
the guys or you know, I don't really remember. You
guys have so many members, Like how do you put
feelers out for an audition? Is it management that looks
in the know?

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
For instance, John Robinson, Uh, we were playing in that
where he lives in Iowa or something like that, and
they went out, the guys went out and after the
gig and he was playing in some club and they
hired him.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
That's crazy. He's from Ioway.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Something like that. It's crazy. It's some weird it's some
place like that. You know that he's that funky from
such a honey, honey, I'm here to say, yeah, I've
heard in England there's I mean, you're past some amazingly
funky people.

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
Yeah, you know, really, are you perplexed or just made
at people's love.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
For sweet thing because they think it's a love song
and blissed not.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
What it was like between between Between.

Speaker 14 (01:10:52):
Reasons by Earth Went and Fire, Sweet Thing.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
The most like there's most misunderstood. It's like that's my
song and I'm like, no, I don't want this play
in your wedding. That's like it was like pretty Wings
by Maxwell, one of my homies.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Are you really about to give me this question? Like
sweet things about an affair? Okay, you're not mine, you're
not mine?

Speaker 4 (01:11:20):
Yeah, you know what, I'll be all right. The first
time I ever got trouble for when I was good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Again, I was five, Oh dear, I was like I
thought it was a candy Niger, like a candy candy.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
I didn't know what can't deny it was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
I always thought the words were you're not mine, you
can't deny.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
I was like a candy. But you know that's that's
one of the many.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
You know, me and missus, you gotta know what.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
We got a thing going on. But there's just a
lot of classic saving all my.

Speaker 14 (01:12:03):
Love for you, slow yeah, slow love songs.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
It's all these it's like side piece.

Speaker 11 (01:12:10):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
It is funny though to hear people, you know, they
make a new language when they don't know the words
right and here not son I can't none.

Speaker 12 (01:12:26):
You're making week with soul desire? Do you make me
week with soul desire?

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:12:30):
That's mine.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
I know what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
Yes, I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Heard some stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:12:40):
I think people go behind it makes them feel because
that song my mother, me and my mother used to
sing that song when.

Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
I was a kid. And you're not thinking, you know
what it's about. You just Sunday morning, Saturday morning clean up.
We just singing together and at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Uh, my family, we used to sing together on Saturdays.
My mother would my mother would put on opera. He
was Sue mac h Butterfly, what's that one? Butterfly? And
you know anything opera? And then she put on the
singer Sarah Ellen. And my grandmother introduced me to Billie Holiday.

(01:13:25):
Huh and music. She's the player. She played her all
the time, and she said, this album that you're listening to.
She was on crutches singing that album Lady in Satin,
And so you know, my mind went wow. Like a kid,
I was like, ooh, she's dragging it around, stands a

(01:13:50):
mic and she can highly stand up. And that made
me really intrigued. So I learned every song on an album,
and you know, and I knew read about her their
history and strange fruit. How can anybody I'm just saying,

(01:14:10):
I couldn't imagine getting off the bus to take a
peek and find and seeing this tree with Oh my god,
I can't even sell them. I think I would stop
doing everything if I saw that. Have you never covered Billy? Yeah,

(01:14:35):
that's what I thought. And I do a good look
at yourself in the Madison's a few.

Speaker 14 (01:14:42):
Mind when characters before you came today.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I called Jimmy jam to ask about your southern accent
on Sign of the Times.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
Which you almost context.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
You almost made it like wow, Sign of the Times
could sort of be a country song if.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
Yeah, you know a lot of songs I do our country.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
But do you approach stuff as a character like when
you're when you're singing these things?

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
And no, I just spent it, put on my spin
on it, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Put some sauce.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
One record that I was you did.

Speaker 9 (01:15:24):
I was always curious about Stephen Bishop, little about seventy God.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Life.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
It's seventh. I don't know what that is, but it's
Stephen Stephen Bishop and it's on his album. It's on
his record.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Yeah, I sang background.

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
With him Careless. Careless is the album Careless.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
The album great writer, great writer, and a really really
beautiful thing.

Speaker 9 (01:15:54):
That's right, Okay, now I'm remembering. Yeah, that was one
of the songs I heard. And you know, you talk
about playing characters, you sounded. I didn't even know it
was you until I looked at the credits. But like you,
it's like you became someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
Yeah, so I was seeing like an Italian mother to us,
to her Italian son. You know, I just went into
character on that, but I didn't, you know, have an
Italian accent, little Italy.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
Yeah, we got to hear you gotta play it. It's
Shaka like you've probably never heard of before. All right,
So it's around like the fifty seven second Marth. Oh yeah,
you're you're you know everything. Yeah, it's around fifty seven
in touch because you are like, so.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
This is Italy of course, Love Supreme with the great Shakakhn.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
The parade, somebody's calling the name.

Speaker 11 (01:17:03):
They're on the.

Speaker 16 (01:17:04):
Sidewalk and all the people to the Hanna. Just see
my mama, am I holding onto the wings of a prayer.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Waitny Rosie down the dea.

Speaker 16 (01:17:15):
I think she cares all dancing in the streets and
little Lily Ah, they're all dancing in the streets.

Speaker 11 (01:17:32):
Wellly mam an unca and lie my grounds, she's got

(01:17:53):
a ring around the shoulder. You can't.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Think, yeah, so can I ask a question?

Speaker 4 (01:18:08):
So for what we just heard.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Time wise, are you a about to give a one
take hove example? Are you phrase by phrase punch it in?

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
I never punched. I sing it all the way down.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
But how do you commit to memory what you have
to sing? Because again that's that's a prime example of
you doing this linear, uh melodic thing, Like, how do
you commit it to memory where I'm supposed.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
To That's the one place music singing and remembering words
you know that is like or nothing to me. It
comes from God. I connect with a higher power when
I'm singing, when I'm on stage and things are really

(01:19:07):
everything's working right, I don't remember what I did. I
have no you walk off and it's like, I don't
know what I did? You know because I was in
a place. I call it the green laser beam hookup. Wow,
I go out of myself and something comes to me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
It's not a gift to be taken for granted. Because
you know, even like I know people that you know,
they have to loop stuff over and over again for
an hour, for hours just to memorize. And some don't
even do that. I'd know some people that just like
line for line, let me hear it, you know, Okay,
I've seen this line and punching it and then punching

(01:19:49):
and punching.

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
I could never do that.

Speaker 9 (01:19:51):
Oh my god, I think too. It's the skill this,
I mean when you come from her air, like when
you record it on tape.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
Yeah, that's water.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
If you're on tape and protus it makes it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Yes, you couldn't really, you know, mess up too much,
you know analog you know. Okay, so but I didn't
get that doesn't matter to me. I just sing And
that's the genius. That's the only thing I could say
that it's genius about me is the fact that I
can remember lyrics and I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
Just want you know what does that a lot? And
I hate he does that. He can just remember suff
dog like with me, I have know you can tell
me your phone number and I'll forget that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
I all forget it toik I watched every time he'll
he'll listen to a minute and thirty seconds of something,
and I swear he'll get the first forty five seconds perfectly.
You'll be all right, play it again?

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
I got it crazy. I hate.

Speaker 12 (01:20:57):
He's not supposed to have good short term memory.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
Yeah, like he has.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
That's where he steps into his box. Okay, a special place.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
You Okay, So now this this is my favorite part
of the conversation seventy seven ask rufus, Now, no record
has ever hit me?

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
You know that's the one with Egyptian song. Yeah, oh yes,
so no.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
I feel no album has ever hit me more than
that album did when I was a kid. Uh and
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Because it's rare for black music and black art too.
I feel like for a black artist it's like, okay,
well you got your three dance hits and some filler
and do this cover song and then wrap it up.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
But the exception of Marvin Gaye, like the exception to
hear my dear, maybe what's what's going on? I've just
never heard an album so seamlessly like seamlessly magic. It's
a sad but to me it's also sad record.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Yes, And I mean, did you guys have a conversation
of like, Okay, let's make a serious album, filler free
and let's it's almost like Claire Fisher was the co
star of it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Well, Claire Fisher did come on till after we did,
ye know, so he swing it up at the end, Yes,
yes he did. And he took Egyptian Song, which I
wrote from a dream. I had a dream, you know.
I've always had an affinity, you know, to Egypt and

(01:22:54):
to that culture.

Speaker 4 (01:22:56):
You know, And.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
I had a dream. And I don't know, I don't
even remember how we put it together. I just sang
the song. And I think Tony and Bobby we all
were kind of connected. Really.

Speaker 4 (01:23:12):
Yeah, But how.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
Again, if if Claire Fisher is the last element that's added,
how do you guys even know, like you have a
fully fleshed out song just with the rhythm section.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Well, imagine it without strings. It's still a song, it's
without Claire. But Claire, So what did you say another level?

Speaker 14 (01:23:38):
What did you say when you heard the for the
first time the strings?

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
Yes, oh I almost I cried.

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
I cried too.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
I said, this man gets me, he gets he gets it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Yeah, like for me, the last minute of Egyptian Song. Now,
because my parents used to always go away on the
road for like weeks at a time, usually like Sundays
where sad days in the house where it's like, okay, man,
we gotta go away for six weeks. You're gonna go
to your Grandmas and like, so imagine this ship playing
in the background. Now, okay, don't ask how I got

(01:24:15):
this particular mix, but is this the strings and the keyboards?
So oh yeah, he's going this breakdown is.

Speaker 12 (01:25:08):
Like it sounds dreaming.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
It sounds like a Mummy movie.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Yes, so this is the playing when like Mom's playing
at me that I'm not going to see it till
like May, and it's like February already.

Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
Why you do that to yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Well, it's a way of staying all right. Music can
saved me, yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 4 (01:25:47):
So, man, I just.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
For me, just the whole, and I know, like the
group imploded after you know, I know that Andre left
after this time period. First of all, it's like, how
do you guys even did you guys even tour behind
this album?

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
Like how I know for stuff like ever Last in
Love and for Midnight that's easy to recreate, but it's like,
how do you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Guys we never did that live? I know we never
did earth Song live. Yeah, I do earth Song. I
do do earth Song right now? Yeah, you do it now? Yeah,
I do it in my show. And you know, I
have to explain that people. You don't what the song's about.

(01:26:34):
If the song is the Earth singing to the universe,
if the Earth could sing to the moon and stuff,
I just forgive me if I turn away. I'm just
a sleeper. I know that. You watch my dreams. You're

(01:26:54):
my heavenly keepers. Yeah, you know. And so it's like
when the Earth turns and the moon is, you know there,
and then it keeps turning and the moon is gone
and the Earth I think she would say, I'm turning away.

Speaker 4 (01:27:13):
So I mean.

Speaker 14 (01:27:16):
No, but I'm saying like, yes, this isn't typical of.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
The era in nineteen seventy seven, you know, I mean,
Silver Connection is doing get up and Bookie, like.

Speaker 14 (01:27:33):
Is what is your record label? Saying like how can
we push this?

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
Exactly? That was the hardest part in my entire career,
and it still is there. What box does she fit into?
They couldn't fit me in a box, and I'm still
that way. I still can't be boxed.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
So they don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
I've been lucky and blessed. You know, there are people
like you, you guys, you know who get it. You know,
for people who are trying to make money for a
tour or whatever. You know, I'm totally separated and not

(01:28:23):
about them, and that that is what makes music seem
like a whore. Actually, it is the language of the angels.
It is high, high speech and high communication of the highest.
That's what music is. That's why you can go anywhere

(01:28:48):
on the planet and sing sweet thing. They don't know,
they don't know what you're saying, but they get what
you mean.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
They get the passion of it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
They get it, and they know what kind of song
they get it. In Japan, I mean only even say
know some of the songs that I've sung. Wow, So
that's communication and that's like very special, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
But just the overall sad tone of the album, how
did that play out into the dynamics of the band,
Because I know that you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
Took a break for a year. First of all, how
does ABC even let.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
It starts signed to Warner Brothers?

Speaker 4 (01:29:41):
Like were they cool?

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Austin?

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
Like, hey, yeah, well ABC kind of died out, and
I think it was bob Ellis. That's sort of what
happened was Otis Smith came and saw us live and
he he signed us. I mean, you know, by then,

(01:30:06):
I was pretty pretty well known in the music industry,
you know, my industry people. So that's why I got.
I got, you know where I got.

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
So how do you I mean, do you explain to
your guys like, Okay, well I'm gonna do the solo
project real quick, but I'll be back, or like where
was it?

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Well, you know, I got pregnant in the soil of
the beginning of that situation Otis Smith. You know, he
was trying to trap me up and everything. God bless you, Otis,
But I'm telling the truth. He thought, you know, he
was trying to have me and I got pregnant by
my husband and he told me, he said, I'm going,

(01:30:50):
how am I gonna make a star to you if
you're gonna be having babies? I said, let me tell
you something. I'm gonna be what I'm gonna be with
you or without you, around you or under you. You
have nothing to say about this.

Speaker 12 (01:31:07):
That's crazy because how many female singers have that same story,
like pregnancy.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
Is like, oh, I can't make a start. I said,
I'm not you know, a pin up. I'm an artist,
you know, when I'm pregnant.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
Or not.

Speaker 4 (01:31:23):
So so coming to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
The soccer project.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
You work with.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
I mean, ar If is one of my idols because
for me, like the band that I worshiped the most
when I was a kid was the average white man. Yeah,
and so to see those names on the credits, I
was like, oh, it's gonna be awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
What was it?

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
What was it like working with him?

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
Oh he was like my uncle father. Really, he took
care of me. He put when I got my.

Speaker 4 (01:32:02):
Did you seek him first or did they come to you?

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
Like? Okay, they put us together?

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Okay, who did you initially?

Speaker 14 (01:32:08):
Because by that point I forgot you did sounds and
stuff like that too with Quincy?

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
Yeah, well Quincy seventy six?

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Was he ever in the running for a second? I
mean before Master Jam, But I mean like.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
Well, you know, I don't know what happened behind the
scenes and stuff with that with him not working with
I think he might have been working with Michael around
that time.

Speaker 4 (01:32:30):
Yeah he was.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
Yeah, it was so Iraf and I I liked iRIf
a lot because he had produced Aretha Franklin, that's right. Yes,
I love what you did with Donnie Hathaway, right, and
you know, so I was like, yeah, this is good,
this is good. And I mean he bought the blinds

(01:32:53):
from my apartment, he put the carpet. You know, he
took care of me like like his daughter. Yeah, and
you know I was his spiritual daughter. And he told
everybody that you and told me all the time you
were my instrument. Really, you have my instrument. You can
play anything that I hear that I want.

Speaker 4 (01:33:18):
So how did you?

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
I mean by that point, by that point, you're just
in full fledge of control of your instrument, your arrangements.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
And the songs I wanted. Then?

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
Yeah, like was there were there any conflicts whatsoever?

Speaker 3 (01:33:35):
And like the stuff you just say, well what Quincy wants?

Speaker 4 (01:33:39):
Uh wait does that mean yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
They cheering for you early that drings dring tones is
a lot.

Speaker 12 (01:33:56):
Get it in your hands.

Speaker 14 (01:33:58):
Anyway, So the right I'm every nick value right, they
a lot of Yeah, what made you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
Choose that song?

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
I actually talked me into it because I felt I
felt awkward saying the words I'm every woman. I didn't.
I thought, how dare somebody say that they're every woman,
I would just just not, you know, mentally there yet
not saying the anthem that it will be a.

Speaker 5 (01:34:26):
Song that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
You because I'm a woman, I'm a backphone. See I'm
thinking you're singing like feminist anthems and those things. I
thought that was just in line with you, you know,
no your womanhood and making us respect that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:45):
Well, you know, I wouldn't think about womanhood at all.
I was singing songs that meant something to mean lyrics
like I'm a woman on back on a backbone. Your
smile was written by a woman named the Looney Washburn.
She wrote those songs. And but when I'm every woman,
I had to grow into it. I just well, maybe

(01:35:08):
in the last ten years something got comfortable singing that
because I understood then what she was saying, you know
what they were they were writing.

Speaker 12 (01:35:15):
I just should What did Whitney singing it mean to you?

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
She's of all the people that have covered by songs.
I had to ask her after she did it, I said,
did you use my backgrounds? Or is that you.

Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
That's like it is?

Speaker 3 (01:35:36):
It's a She's she's great, she was a great, great artist.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
Did you do was I'm every woman? First, or was
Clouds first? Which one Clouds on the second album on
because that's the first song. Yeah, I love that song.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
Yeah, and you know what's do. Whenever it's time to
make a record, we would get I put the word out.
We would get boxes and boxes of cassettes and we
would sit and listen to songs, listening sessions, and we
would mark which songs we did thought were good, and
when we came down to it, he would go on

(01:36:16):
the track and write it out.

Speaker 4 (01:36:19):
Oh you don't want to ask what were your feelings
on Snaps the Power? Uh? I got the Power specifically.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
Well, that was the Penny. Yeah, actually that was only
my gig. I was living in England. They called me
and asked me to come and do this stuff with
him with them, but you know, I was having too
much fun and I said, Penny, I told him I
was sick of some but I said, pity you go
to that because she Penny is one of my students

(01:36:54):
as well.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
Oh you sent her to do it?

Speaker 3 (01:36:56):
Yeah, I said you could have that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:57):
You go do it really?

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
Yeah, And then I slapping myself on the back of
my head.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
An, yeah, it's so basically Snaps really the group.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
Snap, you got it.

Speaker 12 (01:37:12):
In the context, Penny was the one who sang I
got the power.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
But that's not the part that we're referring to put
you on the game. I'm just saying the whole he
could break my heart part from I Got the Power,
which is from this song.

Speaker 4 (01:37:38):
Right here, my brother yes, like a brother Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:37:52):
And it sped up, it got faster and fast. You
could tell that that was a heart song. And Steven
he was chicking on the damn drunk. I'm mean. And
somebody said, well, it gets fast. I said, the little
hearts when they're excited.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
I'm just saying I thought we had a moment because
I don't find looking at me like humble practice three two. Yes,
I own the snare drum that so on some love,
Thank you much?

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Was it a pick Alou?

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
Yeah, Steve for Steve, I've stalked note drummer in life
more than Steve Rooning, Like I'm literally his Yeah. I'm
saying I'm in sair parent more than Clyde Stubble or
any other drummer. I'm Steve Fron's double. And he as
a gesture, he gave me, uh his black and white
snare that he's used wow on all that stuff for

(01:38:54):
a w B and your records.

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
Fantastic, But you don't gave me one of his his trumpets,
the blue one. But you don't what his nephew that
I could kill him.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
He took it back, colt kill him.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
Excuse me, almos, excuse me? Who can't take it?

Speaker 12 (01:39:16):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
But I'm telling you after after he died in his
in his will, he gave it to me, and the
boy kept. Every time I see him, he shrinks and
tries to hide and say, I'm gonna get it to you.
I swear I'm gonna get to you. Well, I'm done
with it now. You know what I'm saying, because what
Miles David said is your your voice sound just like

(01:39:38):
my arm. That was enough for me. Trumpet, that's enough
for me. The muted trumpet. See, I don't like usually
like trumpet only if it's muted. What's that sexy trumpet? Make?

Speaker 4 (01:39:52):
Sexy?

Speaker 11 (01:39:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
Baby?

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
One question?

Speaker 9 (01:39:55):
I had your background vocals on High Love Sneve. How
did it comes about you guys working together?

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
Well? What's his name? The guitar player? What's the play guitar?

Speaker 11 (01:40:11):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
What's the damn it? No black guy Oh, I'm trying
to get the song. You know, think of the song
he did, because he puts the song in everything he plays.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
He's playing guitar on that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:34):
Yeah, And he asked, He asked means, did I want to?
I don't know who told him to ask me. But
I knew Steve when Wood. I knew him, and you know,
I met him, and I know that he was a
falconer and he likes his he likes the birds. Yeah,
I like that. I dug that. I felt really cool

(01:41:00):
because I'm a bird woman. You know, I have had
I've had some really good birds. Yeah, like singing grays
and stuff. So anyway, he asked me, he asked me,
would I come and sing background on his stuff?

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
I said, absolutely, not Will Jennings or Russ titleman, he's
the producer.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
Yeah, guitar right now, Yeah, Frank Eddie Martinez, Eddie Martinez.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
No Black, not Rogers.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
I was like, that's too easy. Yeah, there's a video
and he's playing. Yeah, we did a little video.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Thank you so much. At the Grammys. I remember that
when Russ and when they won the Album of the Year,
they kept saying your name, like they said it four times.

Speaker 4 (01:41:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
No, they when he accepted the Song of the Year
the Grammys. Okay, I don't even know that. I'm trying
to squeeze out every bit of information before I lose.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
You do this again?

Speaker 4 (01:42:04):
Will I gotta ask? I gotta ask.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
I have to ask this question.

Speaker 12 (01:42:11):
Sorry, Tanya.

Speaker 4 (01:42:13):
You're bebop metal, all right? I know she's looking like
he using.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
Your bebop Metley, which I feel was like your greatest
challenge of a song. How did that come to be?
Who organized it?

Speaker 3 (01:42:28):
Okay? Rf that was his baby. He did all the track,
he tracked it. After he tracked it, he said to me,
I want you to sing on this.

Speaker 4 (01:42:40):
That's saying what did you regret agreeing to it?

Speaker 11 (01:42:43):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
I did not regret it at the end, but it
sounded like a finished product. It was fabulous without vocals,
you know, because you know he was well, I had
to think of words.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
He wrote the lyrics to. Yes, I did giant steps
and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
Have you guys heard this?

Speaker 3 (01:43:07):
It's one of the songs that I am proud of.
I'm not really well.

Speaker 4 (01:43:10):
You want to grab me for this? Correct?

Speaker 1 (01:43:13):
Be by Medley by Soaka Khan?

Speaker 4 (01:43:15):
How did you make this hour? I want to be
a horn, which atmosphere is on? What was that?

Speaker 11 (01:43:21):
Was that? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:43:23):
SoC kan the one we got to be there on
taking all the Charlie Parker ship.

Speaker 11 (01:44:01):
It wasn't as fine.

Speaker 6 (01:44:03):
Ready anyway to the.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
Game.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
Then I'll take something.

Speaker 7 (01:44:22):
I say.

Speaker 3 (01:44:29):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
This is where she goes about.

Speaker 4 (01:44:36):
Five one.

Speaker 11 (01:44:40):
Said calling, I am following you.

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
I want to know do you have to go?

Speaker 11 (01:44:51):
I am b you buying you home? Baby?

Speaker 8 (01:44:55):
I mean any reply you me bynbay.

Speaker 11 (01:45:06):
Cas, go you back? Come on.

Speaker 6 (01:45:16):
All you.

Speaker 11 (01:45:19):
Coming coming bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah
bah bah bah bah bah bah.

Speaker 16 (01:45:38):
B What ab.

Speaker 11 (01:45:56):
Imould say?

Speaker 3 (01:45:56):
I said, come back?

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
I'm kidding, Migraine, just listening.

Speaker 12 (01:46:01):
Yeah, exhausted?

Speaker 4 (01:46:04):
How long? How long would that take? One take?

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
You know what I always get producers three takes, just
to be fair, and you give them three takes. I
give them three. I said. The first take, I said,
it's fine, it's it's it's good, but insecure most of
the insecure and stuff, and you know they want to
sit and put you together. But again, yeah, that the

(01:46:36):
arth would say that was great. Do another one? That
was fantastic, Do another one. So if you can't get
it with three.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
Takes, there, yes, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:46:53):
Well, I'm really a one taker.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
You do it?

Speaker 14 (01:46:57):
Yeah, you're indeed one taker, You're one ticket. Thank you
meant nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:47:03):
I only got to the halfway mark. I will have
to do a part two to find out about that.
Don't look any further story and yeah, yeah, ain't nobody's
story story.

Speaker 4 (01:47:19):
We got to a good place. We're good to the place.

Speaker 5 (01:47:22):
Yeah, but we can't.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
We can't get everyone's entire story and in one episode.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
But you know, we have to do this again.

Speaker 12 (01:47:30):
We had Jimmy Champ for six hours, so you got
lucky shocking, you.

Speaker 4 (01:47:32):
Know, Oh my god. Yeah, I just have to say
I thank you, I really thank you for granting us
this interview.

Speaker 1 (01:47:47):
I know you move hell my water.

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's so nice to listen.
It is so nice to be in a group of
people who are cerebrally unchallenged. I love it, and I
don't get it often. I'm hungry for intelligence.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
We're music nerds that that really love you, and you
know we appreciate everything you've done. Uh, ladies and gentlemen
on behalf of sugar Steve on paid bill and uh
uh damn other bills not here.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
You just become other bills, he loses ring, shout out
the Boss Bill tog Bill.

Speaker 3 (01:48:42):
Germanyerman.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
He's over there right now.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
Anyway, and and and it's like you this Quest, Love Quest,
Love Supreme, fading out more of the.

Speaker 4 (01:48:56):
Nobody. Can we go out on on circle? Let's go
out on circles? Of course?

Speaker 1 (01:49:02):
Actually yeah, let's go out on your version of the circle.

Speaker 9 (01:49:04):
Oh yeah, I need to see my group my phone right,
group Little Brother. We sampled circles on our album. Yeah,
they cleared it, so.

Speaker 14 (01:49:14):
Thank you, but thank you for the money.

Speaker 5 (01:49:20):
It was clear.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
Is on the becoming?

Speaker 4 (01:49:26):
I don't know, is it on? Is it on? It
should be on?

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
Looking on minstrels right now they're becoming. Yes, yes, yes,
all right, this is the becoming My Little Brother fan
Takelos the other Side group sampling, sampling Circle by and
Shaka Khan of course Love Supreme. We will see you
next week.

Speaker 4 (01:49:41):
Thank you very much, thank you.

Speaker 17 (01:49:46):
I went from telling me I really shouldn't rhyme, the
dropping the classic album mom couldn't find, took my respect,
took lessons and took the time. And if you want
a success story.

Speaker 4 (01:49:56):
Just take a look at mine.

Speaker 17 (01:49:57):
I was blessed with the white components so precise, because
right so tight within the moment. It's been like my
life depended on it. I talked at you herbs on
some teller problem. I got you watching your words. Tay
Brims is real life, yours is so. Forrinstance, Taxanese like
no dependence, twelve bar courtors rumma with no co dependents.
Don't beat it off. Come to your senses, little hard

(01:50:18):
rock mock block is.

Speaker 5 (01:50:19):
Where you better be.

Speaker 17 (01:50:20):
From top of the line.

Speaker 4 (01:50:21):
My seen will never settled for clumps and he's in there.

Speaker 17 (01:50:24):
He was still bring a second and you know, I
want to say back, didn't get another bees butter yet
to become. It all started back in ninety nine when
times was hard North Carolina Central. But we called it
the yard because wasn't trying to study your broad they
were trying to study abroad or two or three up
in the doors. Met Mashawn Dahn. Then I started the punder.
Then someone quit the football team tomorrow. Then shows around

(01:50:46):
town that one got around the Battle of Teak was
like yelling spect it to you want to build my
rep up. That's what Pool and Knife stepped up night
was so school. Pool was younger player catch up cool
because he could still rock up instrumental. I first joined
Samay was whacked, but good ahead potential. Let them holding
our skills for survival, tussling. Our flying is passed out
like my mama ever revival.

Speaker 4 (01:51:07):
I re'll tell her how my my pink.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
She ain't gonna find this in no present, of course.
Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode
was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts
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