QLS Classic: Christian McBride

American jazz virtuoso and bassist Christian McBride talks about playing with Miles Davis as a high schooler, the "ins and outs" of his craft and how he got himself all tangled up in James Brown's world.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
What's Up, Everybody?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
This is unpaid bill. This week's QLs classic is a
basis Christian McBride. He recalls attending the same high school
as a mere playing on some incredible jazz records and
a Miles David story You did not want to miss here.
It is episode sixty eight from January twenty fourth, twenty eighteen.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Pieces Supremo Sun Sun Supremo, roll Call, Suprema Sun Sun Subpremo,
roll call, subdreama Sun Sun Supremo roll call, Subdrema Sun

(00:44):
Sun Suprema roll call. Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, Subrama
Son Supremeo roll Subrama Son Supremo roll call.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
My name is Spante. Yeah, y'all know I'm filling it.

Speaker 5 (01:06):
Yeah here with two thirds, Yeah, Philadelphia Experiment, Calm Supreme.

Speaker 6 (01:12):
Something something Supremo, role called Suprema something Supreme A roll
where tune Suprema.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah we set the pace, Yeah, we got them drums, Yeah,
we got them face.

Speaker 6 (01:27):
Pray Son so Upbreme roll called Supprema, this.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Sub frame roll the bones and candy ms. Yeah, turn
ups Mother steak. Yeah, grits and gravy. Maam cracking bread
son roll.

Speaker 7 (01:48):
Suprema rolls em yeah, no question, that's right. Yeah yeah,
Chris McBride.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Supreme Subra.

Speaker 6 (02:05):
Roll.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
This is you seriously got mem freestyling uppre roll.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
That was the greatest sprovisation of a musician our generation.

Speaker 6 (02:22):
Supremea some Supreme roll call Supra son son.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Supreme a roll call. Wait. The biggest surprise of that
all was like you not making our guest her third line?

Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yeah you know, christ isn't it? That's that's the standard,
like brought my.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Base, you know. Now you know.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Next time, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Christian McBride Diaries.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
This is question of Supreme uh with Team Suprema. Uh
say hello, guys, how you're doing UH with us today?
You know, I'll say that we've had many hip hop
debate on the show, but I will still maintain that

(03:21):
jazz is probably the most argued and the most debated
UH genre of music.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's it's fans are very passionate, and it's you know,
all opinions are subjective, but I will jazz arguments are
my favorite. Yes, indeed, to watch to watch, yeah, because
you got to have your data. But I I will
I will say that, in my opinion, I believe that

(03:51):
our guest today is without a doubt, uh, probably the
greatest living musician of his generation and prop you know of.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Currently in jazz right now. I mean, I feel as
though he is the.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Spiritual epicenter, one foot rooted and the tradition the other
foot rooted and experimenting and going outside out of the rim.
That's all I can say about one of my favorite
people ever, Christian Lee McBride.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Welcome to Question Love Supreme. Another homie. Yeah, how sweet
of you. I never knew you felt that way.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Come on, bruh, I'm I study you, bro Vice versa.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I know who I'm messing with. Are y'all the same age?
Are y'all the same generation? This is what I'm saying.
This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Even at the age of fifteen, Christian sounded like a
thirty five year old like the way.

Speaker 7 (04:55):
That's why I'm excited, because I want to hear all
these stories about y'all being young and being the.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Way that he talks right now, Like I thought maybe
he was a teacher's assistant. Like in school, he wore
like like right now, he's wearn't sneakers. I don't think
I maybe a few times I've seen you wear sneak
like he always wore suits. Oh wow, and he was clean,
you know what I mean. So I my first day

(05:19):
of Performing Arts school where we went all right, the
history of us is that Christian and I went to
Creative and Performing Arts High School in Philadelphia at the
same time that Boisteroimen went there.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Melvue grew theory the same class.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Same class. He and I are class of Remember I'm
proud of my age eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (05:49):
I know it was I was looking at Christian.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
But yeah, but I'll say that for me, there's a
point where where I guess in your teens you got
to get serious about about your craft. And you know,
I mean pretty much people know the backstory, like I've
been playing with my parents and all stuff since it's

(06:11):
like three, four or five years old, you know. And
then my dad was like, well, you know, there's there's
going to be a time where it's going to stop
being cute, Like you know, you're five, six, seven years
old behind the drum set, playing on like.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Adult Oh that's good.

Speaker 7 (06:24):
He's so cute.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
But there's a point where you're actually gonna have to
be good.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
And I will say that my first day of school
at Creative and Performing Arts was probably the biggest wake
up call of my life which has me here today.
Like I consider that first day of the day where
I was like, oh shit, I didn't know that there
are other kids that play way better than I do.

(06:52):
And you know, cause I didn't know that, I didn't
know any kids, and you know, people my age like
playing like I played with a bunch of oldies cats
that were like fifteen s So meeting Chris, I mean
on the first day of school, didn't Miles. Didn't you
guys do something with Miles Davis.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
On the That was the I think that was the
following year, all this something on Miles Davis. One of
them local channel Bill Boggs, he used to have a
talk show on daytime television in Philly. Uh, they had
Miles Davis as a guest, and uh they had this overly,
this this naive, romantic notion that they would have Miles

(07:30):
Davis give a live workshop like a masterclass. And he's mad, Well,
I don't, I don't know if he was stand office,
but he's he was brutally honest. You know, he's a
man that had no filter, not even for a child.

(07:51):
Because you had an Els Marcel's moment. I think Miles
Davis is thinking, well, like, if you bolted to put
me on television with a nine year old kid, you're
gonna have to hear the truth, you know. So they
had they had the house band, which was myself, Joey D.
Francesco on on keyboard and uh, Stacy Dozier on drums,

(08:14):
our old buddy and uh they invited four trumpet players
from the Philly school system to come and play and
get Miles to critique him on live television and uh
uh not a good.

Speaker 7 (08:27):
Idea, Please, what do you what do you say about you?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, he didn't. We weren't featured.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Were they were the master Like that's what I'm saying, Chris,
Chris was already at master level.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
I don't know about that. But see, we weren't playing.
We were just there to back up the trumpet players.
They didn't. They didn't, We weren't. Who were some of
the casts that were Fred Goodson was one of the trumplers,
John Swanna was one of the trumpet players. Uh, dude
was one of the trumpet players. And Jafar Baron eleven, No,

(09:01):
he was. Let me see, I would have been sixteen,
so Jafar might have been fifteen. And I remember Miles
pushed him in the chest. Wow, my little Miles gave
him a straight left, right and right in the solar plexus. Man,
I couldn't believe it. Wait a minute, I know all

(09:26):
these years I've never heard. I never told you Miles
pushed him in the chest.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
Well, why did he punch him in the chest?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Because after it was over, you know, we all went
up to Miles to you know, say hello, and the
Miles you know, kind of cased everyone up, you know,
and he went he saw you far, he went, boom.
You've been a practice boy. So what year was this?
How old was Miles around that time? That would have

(09:51):
been eighty eight, so years old? Yeah, right, your Miles
was sixty four, maybe sixty two, sixty two. But that
was on the second day of eleventh grade, right something
like that. Wasn't that early. I don't know if it
was that early in the year, but it was sometime
early in the year.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I had missed because my parents were on the road.
I missed technically, I think, the first two days of school,
so I came in on day three. Yeah, and I
had already gotten word of Oh.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
My god, Bill found it already. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. Okay,
I wish I could see what I just saw.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, but it was mad Like for me, the whole
experience is mad attimidating, because every every high school has
this what what what set you claiming moment? I mean,
be it an actual what set you claiming moment? Or
you gotta choose a click? Yeah, And because you're at

(10:58):
performing arts high school, I mean there's different.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
You know, there's theater, dance, music.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Creative writing, right, so then once you choose what you
gotta do. But even inside those clicks, there are other
clicks and clicks.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah. And the thing was on on the right.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Side of things was Christa McBride and Joey de Francisco,
whom I already knew of, like seeing clips on the news,
local news, and you know, jazz brought it to these
Christmas Vien Joey thirteen fourteen, like playing like and I
don't mean like, oh they're q for thirteen year old men. Yes,
But then on the left side of it Kurt Rosenwinkle.

(11:38):
Kurt Rosenwinkle who worked on Q Tips, he was on
the second abstract Yeah Comala Abstract record. So Kurt Rosenwinkle
uh is a year older than us, and so he
has a whole nother click. So basically I'm trying to
choose which fork in the road I'm not going to
go because these guys are talking traditional straight ahead jazz.

(12:02):
But then Rosenwinkle's trying to unteach me everything that they're
teaching me by like hit me to Frank Zappa, Mount
Vshu Orchestra, like John mclaughe and and all that stuff.
And then on top of that, you know, I got
to survive up in the lunch room and Treiek's with
the cool kids, you know.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
So it's just and his boys and men over there
on the side.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Were they hung with them, well, they had their own.
They strictly hung with the with the vocal.

Speaker 7 (12:31):
When a hear tells a story, you always say they
were already likes together and pat no, they were together.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
They were singing, trying to get girls and all that stuff.
But I mean, just as far as what sets you claiming,
I definitely. You know, Rosenwinkle was again the jazz argument
of do we file tradition in the forties or.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Do we move it ahead to the future. So now,
But this is why he was such a saving grace
for me when he came to high school, because I
had nobody to talk funk with for my first two
years of high school. I was just kind of in
my own bubble when it came to funk. I mean,
I enjoyed living in my own bubble. I could do that.

(13:14):
You know, I'm an only child, you know, I'm cool
with that. But then he's leaving out a very important
part of his first day of school. He was playing
the bass. He was just kind of new, lying around
on the upright base. So I knew he was coming.
And they said we got a new drummer coming in.
I'm here Thompson. I was like, oh, cool, solid, And
so I walked in the music room and I see

(13:35):
somebody on the base and I'm just kind of just
kind of laying back, just chilling, like all right, who
was this? And he's playing doing it to death. He's
playing James Brown on that, and I went, wait a minute,
So I kind of walked up to him. I was like, yeah,
what you know about James Brown. He looked at me,
he said, no, what you know about James Brown. It

(13:58):
was at that point I man, man, you don't know
how much how happy I was that you came around
and for the our last two years of high school,
it was great to have that that outlet I could
go and really talk funk with him. Mother. Lowe had
come out in the jungle groove on him. James Brown records,

(14:20):
and he studied Jabbo and Clyde Stubblefield, all those Al Jackson,
all those great R and B and soul drummers the
same way I would study Ray Brown or Paul Chambers
or Charles Mingus or Ron Carter and uh to the
point where till this very day, should I reveal your
your nickname? Yeah? So I've called him Clyde ever since

(14:43):
the day I met him, because he's the closest to
Clyde Stubblefield. Nobody else has studied Clyde Stubblefield as thoroughly
as he as he has, and can actually play like
Clyde s Doublefield. So I've never called him quest. I mean,
you know I do when what I have have to,
you know, I understand circumstances. Always been Booty and Clyde.

(15:05):
Booty and Clyde. That's that's what we call each other,
you know. All right. So Chris, there's.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Your Your music vocabulary is so broad that I don't
know whether or not to go with your story and
your journey in jazz or just your opinions on music period,
So we can go wherever you.

Speaker 7 (15:27):
Well, we got to find out how he became a
child genius though yes.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
He will never admit this. So well, I gotta know
how old were you when you first started playing?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Nine? Nine years old? Based on because just like you,
you know, uh, my dad Bee Smith is also a
bass player. My great uncle Howard Cooper also a bass player,
and uh so it's a family tradition, you know. I
I didn't really want to do anything else, maybe pro
football at one point, uh but it was always about

(15:58):
the bass. What did you play ball for a little bit?
Street football? You know? I want you to be old.
Get on the j bus. It was upright That's what

(16:20):
I started on on electric base. Yeah, and then I
started playing the upright base when I was eleven and
I was going to Pepper Middle school in southwest Philly
because I had to play in the orchestra. Wait where
was Pepper Uh now out near the airport? Yeah, you
know what I'm saying. That wasn't Yeah, it was past
Bartram it was. It was actually like Sharon Hill. It
was behind Bartram, like past penn Rose Park. It was

(16:43):
like that. The school the suburbs. Yeah, oh big time.
What would you take to get a chartered sefter bus
damn yeah.

Speaker 7 (16:54):
Thing?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah yeah, well we basically took what was the G
bus and but it was specifically went straight to Pepper. Wow. Yeah,
I never heard of such a thing. Yeah, man, And
so the technical uh the the exact address was eighty
fourth and Lions Avenue. The schools now closed, doesn't exist,

(17:17):
but it was this. It was the school built on
top of a swamp. There was always a prediction that
the school would literally sink at some point. But yeah,
it was out there near the airport, near Island Avenue
pass Linburgh Boulevard. It was. It was way out there.
But they had a great music program. So that's when
I started playing upright base really yep, and this is

(17:42):
a public school or yeah, okay, okay, So then you
went there all eight years of your No, I went
to Hamilton for for elementary school from first to sixth,
and then Pepper seventh and eighth, and then Kappa nine
through twelve.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
So what when you went to Kappa, especially those two
years before, At what point are you, you know, dedicating
your life to Jack at least the serious the seriousness
level that I saw you ass Like.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
What, Well, it's a couple of things that happened. When
I was in eighth grade still at Pepper, I met
Joey he was there too.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
No, but.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
My string teacher, you remember, mss Keith. I think she
was known as Miss Funk back then. Yeah, exactly, so
I know right, So she was teaching, she was my
base teacher at Pepper, and she said, I think you're
good enough to go to Settlement for their jazz program.
And so I started going to Settlement Music School. And
that's where I met Lovin Hines and Joey d. Francesco

(18:47):
and Antonio Parker and Donald Ward, all these all the cats.
And they were like, yo, you in eighth grade. You
ain't even supposed to be here till till at least
next year. But Joey was there, so he was in
eighth grade too. So uh, once I met Joey, we
started practicing together. We started calling each other up on
the phone every day. You know. He you think, look,

(19:11):
Joey de Francesco was the real child prodigy because he
was gigging. He was making gigs in Philly when he
was like nine years old. Yes he was. He was.
His feet could barely touch the organ pedals. But I
mean he knew like half the real book already.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
And the fact that to explain, all right, so there's
a real book and there's a fake book. Why do
y'all use the fake book more than the real book.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's cheaper, it's easier to get get your hands out,
So it's the real book would be the Wikipedia of
all jazz songs in book for him.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
So when you're a jazz musician coming up a saxophone player,
whether were there various books where they just court charts.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Or well they would have uh you know, B flat key,
concert key and E flat key, so.

Speaker 7 (20:03):
Yeah, like sheet music.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah yeah, but you you basically, if you're a jazz musician,
it would be who you to least know at least
eighty of this book?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, because the big is it? It was pretty thick.
I would I would say about that big you know,
there's two hundred what kind of what songs are? They
like it? Standard Autumn Leaves Misty, you know, take the Train,
all those all those standard jazz songs. I mean, because
the part of the biggest challenge of being a jazz

(20:35):
musician is learning repertoire. You know, because you get on
stage with some of those older guys you know, turn
around and say body and soul. They don't want to
hear that. Oh I don't know that. Well what you
up here for? Get off the stage, you know. So
that's part of the that's the biggest challenge there is,
just learning the repertoire. So how were you when you
read music? When I started at Pepper, That's when I

(20:56):
started learning reading music.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Uh, anybody can put anything, because that's the thing is
that I in my experience musicians that are proficient at reading.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
I know cats that.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Live on the stage, they look at it, they can
play everything but their feelings off. But then I know
cats that have awesome feel they can't read a lit So,
I mean, at what point.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, it was always a myth that, especially speaking to
a lot of older jazz musicians, they always had this
thing and they were scared to learn how to read
because they said, well, if I learned how to read music,
I'm not going to be able to get the feeling
into it. But I mean, I think that myth was
shattered by so many great legendary musicians. I mean, first
of all, if you played in a big band, you

(21:42):
had to learn how to read. So Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker,
all these great musicians. I mean, obviously they knew how
to read music and write music as well. But once
I started playing in the orchestra at age eleven, at
Pepper started taking private lessons, and I had to learn
how to read music. And you know, of course at
that time you read music every day, so I was
really good at it. You know. I think I consider

(22:04):
myself a moderately good reader now because I don't do
it every day. But if I don't want to put
myself on the spot. But there are varying degrees of
of of of you know, challenge challenge when it comes
to the music that people give you to read. I'm
fairly quick still, you know, so just in front of you,

(22:26):
can you play this and you're looking you know, I
give it the once over and I write away. I
just try to look for the problem spots, you know,
and I'm just like, okay, what is that? Okay, I
think I got it, you know, and then nail it. Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, that's kind of where I got off the train
because reading drum charts is boring. Well, no, it's just
hard for me. I mean, I'm certain that if I
seriously applied it, it wouldn't be anything. But I mean,
you know, just reading drum charts and okay, so this
is the kick and that represents the snare and this

(23:01):
represents the like there's so many hours of practice you
have to put into that, which I don't think.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
And there's so many different kinds of drum charts, like
you know, sometimes they'll just give you a lead sheet
with just the melody on it, and you're left to
your own devices on what to figure out what the
accents are exactly. You know, some will give you an
actual drum part where they have all of the slashes
and all the stuff on top and underneath, and like
you said, you know, I've seen like drum like that.

(23:31):
Shit makes no sense at all.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
So when some of the older casts come like Tony
Bennett comes through. This guy like gave his jrump charts
like look at each other, he just gave Just give
us the NP three brother.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Straight up. Well, you know, speaking of you, you're talking
about Kurt Rosenwinkle and he was turning you onto the
Mound Official New Orchestra. Well, I would say that John
McLoughlin and the mon Official New Orchestra where they had uh,
legendarily difficult music. None of it was in four you know,
it was all in nine and eleven, shifting back and

(24:09):
forth five four, five eight, eleven four eleven eight and uh,
you know, the I is crossed listening to some of
this music right now. Imagine reading it. When I went
on tour with with Chick Corea and John McLoughlin, uh
in a in an all star group called the five
Piece Bad p E A C E. I was literally scared.

(24:31):
I thought, Chick Corea and John McLoughlin together, Boy, I
know I'm gonna be doing some heavy reading on this tour.
And Vinnie the Great Vinnie calu to former Frank Zappa
drummer of all people, played on that tour, and uh,
John mcgloughlin had this one tune. What was the name
of this piece? I can't remember, but it was so

(24:52):
difficult I'll never forget. We had to jump on a
conference call with Chick Vinnie Call you to Kenny Garrett,
who played saxophone on the tour, and we're all sitting
there trying to figure out, now, how are you hearing this?
Are you hearing it in five or you hearing it
in ten? Or I mean like what, what?

Speaker 7 (25:10):
What?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Where? Where's the downbeat? Where's the one The one part
of me actually was relieved to hear Chick career of
all people, asked the question. You know, he was like, man,
I'm having trouble finding out how to count this, and
I'm like, Okay, I don't feel so bad. Oh man,
what song was it? And Vinnie Call was like, uh, yeah,
we'll see. Think of the dotted quarter note. It's like

(25:34):
that's the actual quarter notes. It's like doom doom, doom, doom,
doom doom doom. And instead of counting it, uh like
like with the eighth note groove and to think of
it as like a super slow five. What was the
name of that song? Oh, old Blues, New Bruise, That
that's the that's the recul that's the name of the song.

(25:55):
Oh yeah, Old Blues, New Bruise. Damn. Even even my
computer's like right, yeah, or New Blues, Old Bruise, something
with blues and bruise in it, and like so it's
a slow five and it's got all these accents in
the middle of it, and I mean, I'm looking at this, going, bro,

(26:18):
I can't feel this, and I'm thinking, well, we got
a tour coming up.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I better learn how to feel it and quit. Oh
so it wasn't any question of it. Well maybe it's
too difficult for you guys, let.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Me No, no, no, we had We had to buckle
down and figure it out. And I'll tell you the
whole time we were on that tour when we played
that song, you can literally see me I'm gonna stay
this going three, four, five or two. I was counting
out loud and unashamed. I was like, I ain't getting

(26:50):
lost in this tourne Wait, what year was this?

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Uh? Eight eight and o nine? We did that tour
ten years ago? Yeah, I'm thinking like, oh, post high school.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, this was less than ten
years ago. Really, yeah, so how many years did you
do at Juilliard. I only stayed for a year. That's
because I started gigging pretty much right after school started.

(27:21):
As you well know, I got to know when Marcellus
toward our last couple of years of high school, and
knowing that all my jazz heroes lived in New York,
I said, I got to get to New York somehow,
some way. So I knew I was going to go
to college. And well, I knew I was going to
go to New York. But as cool as my mom is,

(27:44):
I knew it wasn't going to be simple as hey, mom,
I want to move to New York and become a
professional jazz musician. So I went to I applied to
the New School, Juilliard and the Manhattan School of Music,
and one of those three. If I can get in
any one of the schools, at least I'll be here
in New York. And I started working with Bobby Watson's

(28:04):
Horizon Quintet probably my first month in town. But that
wasn't the first gig that actually took me on the road.
The first time I went on the road was like
on a steady basis was probably it was both Roy
Hargrove's band and Freddie Hubbards Band and this is after Juilliard.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, so what point did you because I think everyone
has that thing like I did like half a semester.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Then it's like I got a record deal, I got
a gig. So like for you, what was it? I mean,
did your mom know? Like, okay, I think she knew
because once, I would say, once May rolled around May
of ninety, I was working a lot, so I knew
the writing was on the wall. I said, my school

(28:51):
work's going to suffer because I'm out playing every night.
I'm either going to have to make a decision either
really focus on studies or go gig. So I called
mom from from a payphone exactly on fifty six then,

(29:11):
right in front of Worldwide Plaza. I don't know why
I was there, but I called her from there. I said, Mom,
I don't think I want to go back to Juliard
next year. And it was this long, like minute and
a half paused over the phone, and I was like, Mom,
you're there. She's like, yeah, I'm here, So what are
you going to do? I was like, I was like,

(29:34):
but Mom, I'm gigging. You know, I'm working a lot,
and you know I'm making money. She said, where are
you going to live? I said, well, my friend Mark Carrey.
Mark Carrey, who's yeah, yeah, he was playing in Betty
Carter's band at that time, and he had a place
up in Harlem and he had some extra space. He said,
I can move in with him. Well, I don't know, Mark,
carry I got meet him, make sure he's cool. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(29:59):
I was is. You were always an adult to me,
so seeing you having a yeah, man, Well see man again,
I'm gonna go back to high school. I've always felt
that both your parents, you know, even my dad wasn't
living with us, you know, when I was growing up.

(30:23):
But I'll never forget how much how tightly knit your
family was, man, And I always thought of your dad,
both your parents and and my mom the same way.
They did not let us get away with too much. Man.
They weren't hear none of that, none of that crazy mess,
you know. And my mom always loved you, man. She

(30:43):
liked the fact that. I think she also liked the
fact that I now had a funk brother, you know,
you know, she was like, God, finally somebody else you
could listen to James Brown with boy. So what was
you said the first gig you did was with Hubbert. Well,

(31:04):
I was like, that was like my first major major
gig after I left Philly. What is that like?

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Like is it intimidating from you know, studying. I know
that you guys like I didn't realize the point. You know,
you guys are like reciting solos to each other, and
I was like, ohh, I gotta now study.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
There's there's one point when you you enjoy were listening
to I'll Never Forget.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
You had Larry Jung's Unity, not Zultron. That was the
first that is, but it's the it's the the second song.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, I think it was Monks Dreamy Monk's Dreams moon Train.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
But you guys were literally reciting every you know. Now,
I know that's common in jazz music, but I'm was like, wait,
why did they're studying?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Man? Soul was like, that's how far I got to
go into this thing, and.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, but you did that man, well see I did
for survival because it's like if you can't get respect
from I mean, it's like in jail, like you got
to hit the biggest motherfucker, Like you see the biggest
motherfucker that you hit.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Him like you had to speak their language. No, I
think it's survival on on that, on and too, because uh.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, y'all used to also if the cat was sad,
y'all would y'all would let y'all wouldn't even let him
know he's like, oh, Man's cat's so sad.

Speaker 7 (32:36):
Man.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
I didn't want to be the sad cat that well,
you know what used to crack me up. Do you
remember how Joey and Kurt used to see Joey defriend
to see I feel bad because Joey's not here to
defend himself. But well, we were in high school. But
Joey used to mess with Kurt like terribly, yes, because
Kurt was you know, he was he was super serious
and he was not a traditional kind of guy. He

(32:59):
was playing great stuff, but it wasn't like straight traditional jazz.
So he'd be in the in the practice room, and
you know, he would be on the piano. I actually
didn't even know Kurk played guitar because he played a
lot of piano in high school. Really yeah, so the
first during freshman and well, I knew he played guitar,
but I thought that was a secondary instrument because I
always just see him on piano all the time. So

(33:20):
he would be on the piano and be playing all
these all these weird kind of you know, polychords and
all this stuff, and Joey would come behind and be like, man,
what is that ship? Man? Why don't you play some blues?
And Kirk get out of here, man, leave me alone,
and joe that's some bullshit, get out of here, all right.

(33:40):
So this leads me to.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I will say that with as far as Winton is concerned. Yeah,
you've heard all the arguments. I'm certain that you've heard
both sides of.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
I've been I've been deep in the eye of that hurricane.
I understand that now. I mean part of me just
from where I stand in hip hop. Were we standing
hip hop?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
I mean, like no one wants to be seeing as
the grumpy old traditionalist and the guy that's only hanging
on to the flag and that sort of thing. And
you know, especially with hip hop, you got older cats
that need to contextualize their coolness by co sign and
something young right, some progressive like Quincy's the king of that.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Quincy always talked about he has a cough drop in
his mouth. Yeah, you know, I love bro but it's like.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I've heard everything, and probably the best analogy I heard
that Winton has more as far as hip hop comparisons,
I've heard a jazz guy that I respect very much
say that Winton is the Puffy of the jazz movement.
In other words, there was a point where, I guess

(34:54):
in seventy eight where you know, the N Base Collective
and all those guys were trying to push forward.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I mean, if you ask a cat like Dave Murray,
David Murray, I mean, his thing is like, well, you know,
he came in the suit and killed our movement. So
but then but I know that win is about tradition.
And then when he did the documentary with on PBS, yeah,

(35:23):
that really didn't help his argument. This is true much.
I mean I appreciated it because there's stuff I didn't
know about King. People got turned off by that, right.
So it's like we're including jazz musicians, right, especially jazz musicians.
So where do you stand as far as what he represents.

(35:44):
I think when Marcellus was was absolutely necessary for what
it was that he did. I do think, well, you
know that that old saying about the you know, killing
a flow with a rifle. You know, I do think

(36:04):
that's deep. I do think that in his desire to
uphold the traditions of jazz, I think he was quite
divisive and harsh on a lot of musicians that came
before and in some cases after him, came after yeah,

(36:24):
who really didn't see things the same way he did.
I do find an interest in that. You know, you
look at jazz in the seventies and you look at
what was hot at that time. You know, the whole
loft scene that was going on in New York. Uh,
you know, this this sort of I don't know what
you would call it, this sort of post online guard

(36:45):
kind of movement. You know, lest the Bowie was hot,
Chico Freeman was hot, David Murray was hot, Oliver Lake,
the AACM was doing great things. And then a lot
of the jazz ledgends you know, your art, Blakie's, your
heart silvers, they weren't getting the same kind of attention

(37:06):
or the same kind of of respect that they had
been getting in the fifties and sixties. There was this
sort of unspoken uh this, well, these guys are the
old school, you know, I mean, they still play good,
but they're not really contributing anything fresh to the cannon.
And then here comes this young raw kid from New

(37:27):
Orleans who can play the hell out of the trumpet
like no one's ever heard before. And on top of
everything else, he's brashing outspoken that he pretty much came
up and said, wait, ho, hold hold of time. Up
all the stuff that y'all think is great, this is
all straight bullshit. And even if you didn't agree with him,
you had to go, whoa, Yeah, this dude, it's got

(37:48):
some balls on him, you know. And he's backing it
up with backing it up with his trumpet playing. Now,
add that he's got a brother almost more outspoken than him,
but he was he in terms of jazz tradition, he
was very much on the same page. And I see

(38:09):
it's interesting that my manager and I always talk about this.
You really, you do realize who actually changed the course
of jazz forever in the eighties was not a jazz musician.
It was Sting. When the police broke up and Sting
decided to start his dream of the Blue Turtles band.

(38:32):
The fact that he took two of Winten Marcellus's band
members that caused a riff in jazz that to this
day has never really been resolved. I think to think
about something, in nineteen eighty five, Winton Marcellus had already
won I think by that time he already won four Grammys.

(38:53):
He had already he was already already acknowledged as like
the seminal trumpet player of a of a generation, even
though he was only like twenty four, a protege of
Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch, you know, so like so
he was known as an intellectual on top of a
great trumpet player, and he was so well celebrated for

(39:19):
his you know, embracing of the tradition and sort of
resetting jazz's values. And he's got one of the greatest
bands in jazz with his brother, the great Kenny Kirkland
Seann at Mafino based on Jeff Taine Watts on drums.
Sting comes around and says, hey, Branford, Kenny, y'all come
with me. And so this almost seemed very much like

(39:40):
a cane and Abel because like people were like, you
left your brother to go play.

Speaker 7 (39:45):
On a rock band, what you know, sound fun and right?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
And so people were kind of like, well, but Branford,
I thought you. How could you do that? You know,
Branford's like, look, I love straight ahead jazz, but I
never said I wouldn't play anything else, you know, so
imagine when he did buck Shot launh. Yeah. So I
do know that there was a very very bad split
between him for a long time. They've since made up.

(40:16):
I know it's been all good, But musically speaking, I
really don't believe Winton ever really recovered from that. Really,
I don't think so. I think musically because that band
was so killing musically, he wasn't going to find anybody
else to replace, somebody like Bradford or Kenny Kirkin. So

(40:36):
you're saying, now, here's the word thing I just recently
found in oral History on Live at Blues Alley. Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
To hear Wint and tear that album apart, I'm in
an album that I studied.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
You know, that's a great album, So I thought, I think, so,
I thought, But to hear him and then read further.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Because the thing is is that with with rock criticism
and hip hop, as far as journalism is concerned, I
never delve deep into how jazz records were perceived or
you know, got a bunch of downbeat back issues to
see how they were, you know, unless it was like
looking up on the corner or something, you know, by Miles.

(41:26):
But I never knew because in my head when Jay
Mood and sort of his eighty six to eighty eight period,
I thought that.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Period immediately after Branford Kenny went was thinking.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
See, but I didn't see that as a down period.
But if you're trying to compare it, are you saying
that that eighty six eighty eight period of Winton would
be the equivalent of post payback James Brown?

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Like, No, I wouldn't say that. I would say that
just mentally speaking.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Because I thought he was trying to push even further
experiment and then when he got to the nineties doing
like the Little.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
The New Orleans, Yeah, the whole eighty six you know
those albums he talked about J Mood live at Blues Alley.
I mean, those are virtually only the two albums he
made before he turned and kind of went straight traditions
and went straight to his New Orleans thing. And you know,
he helped build Jazz and Lincoln Center. So I always wonder,

(42:31):
like how much of that was because of what happened
with Branford and Kenny. Like had Branford Kenny not left
his band to go with Sting, I'm sure Winton's career
would have been a lot different different just for for context.
So when jazz musician is referred to straight ahead jazz,
what is that referring to? Like, who are some of
the artists most of the time they well, they're referring

(42:54):
to a style of jazz that is kind of coming
out of fifties hard bop, you know, l Heart, Silver, Cannonball, Atterley,
Danceable quote unquote jazz, you know, like blues based kind
of jazz.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Saying not bop as in because I knew that at
a point when they started speeding it up, right, it
was to discourage the dancing, right, So yeah, fastbat was
more like, hey just watch us and stop dancing.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Okay, So they were the DJ of the moment, you know,
but they were still called that straight ahead you know.
I think when things started changing, it's like when avant
guarde movement started coming around, and it became less about
it became less so much about overt or i should say,

(43:44):
sort of recognizable traditional melodies or traditional four to four rhythms,
you know, like on that Coleman kind of blew it
out of the water. In the fifties and Cecil Tailor
came around, and Charles Mingus's music started getting a little
more at abstract, to the point where even some jazz
fans were like, well, I don't really quite know what

(44:06):
this is, you know, Andrew Hill.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
And wait you're saying and now I'm like the shape
of jazz to come was sort of like met with
because now it's considered or at least beneath the under
the like those records are like considered.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah. No, there were a lot of people who initially, yeah,
they felt it was like heroin music. They were like, well,
you know, I'm not sure I can get with this
on that Coleman dude. You know, oh yeah, a lot
of people felt that way. You know, I think, uh
the masses did dig it. Uh, but it was definitely
a musical shift that it took a lot of people

(44:40):
took some time to adjust to it.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
You came out as a young lion, like when I knew, like,
oh this means things some article on Time magazine where they.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Were remember that that was like whoa Jesus Christ, Chris
this in Time magazine? You know, what I mean. So
it was like there there was was were young Lions
only referred to as the class of eighty five? Yeah,
we were the Winton spin offs. So young Lions were
referred to as post Winton jazz absolutely, yeah, yeah we

(45:20):
were you know, we were considered the uh you know
we we were the Jefferson's two Winton's all in the family.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Okay, okay, all right, So then how do you feel
about the post generation.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
After us, or like the post generation post Winton, or
like our generation or.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
From from after Europe period. There's probably two generations that
have passed right now. I know me personally with musicians again,
like the the the universal positioning, the universal quest love
positioning of you know, whatever I represent, it's supposed to
be all knowing, all accepting, and you know, kind of

(46:09):
diplomatic about the ship. So I haven't like exactly been
like there's.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Some bullshit a lot of right right, But there are
a few.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Musicians that are mad at me about my outspokenness of
gospel chops so in R and B.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Play everything. But how is that in your world?

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Because there's some cats that I like, I know, not
the fall for the Okie Doke and the okie doke
is like, if someone does more fancy ship than they
do straight ahead ship, then that might be a problem.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
So I think oftentimes, you know, obviously, technique is it's
a great thing to have. I think it's something that
one has to strive for it if you want to
be the best at what you do. Obviously, it's about taste.
It's about when, it's about when you decide to pull
your your flash card, you know what I mean. I

(47:12):
think oftentimes, because not a lot of musicians have a
lot of great technique, when you find a few that do,
it can be intimidating. But on the flip side, if
that person with the great technique just jams it down
your throat all the time, it's gonna make it really
bad for the ones that actually have good technique, who

(47:32):
have taste, Like for me, Wayne Shorter. Wayne Shorter has
just technically speaking on the saxophone. He has the fast
He has some of the fastest guns since John Coltrane,
probably the fastest since John Coltrane. But Wayne always picks
the perfect spot to hit you with that He never

(47:54):
that's never his numb. He doesn't come out here. It
never comes out of the gate where you know, you know,
it's just you know, you're like, oh, what was that?
You know what I mean? He makes you want to
hear it again, you know what I mean? And I
think the whole thing with the gospel chops. I'm with
you all the way, bro, because I mean so many

(48:15):
times I always tell young younger musicians, particularly drummers and
bass players, Look, that stuff you're doing is great, all right,
but do you want to have a million YouTube followers
or do you actually want to work and talk about it?

Speaker 5 (48:33):
You know?

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Do you want somebody to call you for a gig
or do you want somebody to just pass around YouTube
videos and tell tell you how fast your chops are.
I would think in a practical world, you will want
to gig. And if you want to gig, you're gonna
have to learn to put put them put that shit away,
you know what I mean? And I love using you
as an example, man. I was like, look, listen to

(48:56):
quest Love. I mean, there's a reason why you are
who you are. And now I gonna gash you up
a little bit, man.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I can honestly say that after having played with so
many of my drum heroes, just jazz and Funk. You know,
having played with Bernard Purty, finally got a chance to
play with Jabbo and Clyde, Mike Clark, Steve gadd Yo, Man,
you are easily like one of the top ten of
all time in terms of holding that pocket. Come on, bro,

(49:27):
who who else plays that pocket like you? Man? Seriously,
he's not good with though he don't sorry, and I'm
a homeboy. Little John Roberts, Little John, he just he
been holding the pocket down. I know how much. I
don't know how many chops he's.

Speaker 7 (49:45):
Got too, could my my?

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Okay? So part part he was.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
In All City, bab Little John was younger than me,
so part of me felt like okay, as an eleventh.

Speaker 7 (49:57):
Grader drummer foret guys not yeah yeah right.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
It's funny because the first time I met that little John, yeah,
back in ninety four, I was like, wait, what happened
to your hair?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Like I'm because both of them having to Atlanta, right,
John Roberts.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
But no, it's funny about John Roberts is because he
was I think two years younger than me. So when
I got to All City, I mean he looked like
his name was Little John Roberts, Like he looked like
a kid.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
He just so naturally.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
I just thought like, oh, motherfucker's playing the tambourine or something,
and you know, I'm on the drum set. And he
was cool like I'm on his drum set, but I'm
getting athing tuning stuff up the way I want it,
you know. And then who's the the all City Hi, Yeah,
mister Whittaker.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I was like, okay, uh, what's what's his name? Am Omar?

Speaker 1 (51:00):
He was like, yeah, you can play a tambourine on
Good News or he'll or he gave me throwaways on
my hill with the Lord Hides or yeah, old Maynard
ferguson songs whatever, and to.

Speaker 7 (51:13):
Watch this little did you have to get your ass up?

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Like?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
That was my martin pretty ricky what they call it.

Speaker 7 (51:21):
That was my moment.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
That's when like I was dead serious. I now have
to shed.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Five hours, which is like usually the neighbors would start
bitching around ten pm.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yes, right, so you know that leaves me limited space
from like four to ten pm to do.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
But even then I'm like, okay, practice on my pad
and all right, don't wait that up, hit hit the bet.

Speaker 7 (51:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
The mattress is something silent, but it was like.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
I gotta get I gotta get some technique and get
like that pressure came on me at sixteen seventeen, but
little John Roberts was like he when I saw him running,
That's when I knew I had to get my ship
together and get it right. But the weirdest thing about
it is my approach was to actually do less ycause

(52:11):
I know every drummer, like, there was a point where
you know, here's the gospel group what commissioned? Yeah, oh yeah,
so commission Like those cats started get more technique into
their playing and stuff, and all, like all Tristate area
musicians just started following suit. And you know, and you
know by that point, James Brown like his his music

(52:34):
was starting to come alive more in Hip Hop eighty
seven eighty eight. So I mean, it's a lot for
you to just what I what I would call use
the force and just damn like, all these guys want
to show how fancy they are, and I got to
play less to get attention. And it's it was hard.

(52:57):
You navigated that brilliantly, though, like for the first four
years to just do nothing while all these other cats
are just dancing around me getting all the woo's and
and stuff, and you know, even now, like no, it's
the equivalent of in hip hop, the dude that can
freestyle and get all the oohs and ah's and whatever.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I can't make a record to save his It's like
too short.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
It's like too short versus cannabis exactly right in the air. Yeah, man, yeah,
so it's But I also feel my dad taught me
a trick. Whenever he would audition a musician, He's like,
make him play the ballot. Yeah, like the slowest, easiest
song ever, and I will watch mini musician trip.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Do you got to go to? Well?

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I mean my dad's songs were ballots, so like I
would want to do like the fast, funky, you know,
stuff to see like how they adjust.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
And Dad was like, no, you're you're.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Gonna find out the truth about a musician. Always make
him play the ballot. You give him the simplest things ever,
and they will always mess up because discipline.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Is one to be hardest things.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Absolutely, So okay, And I'm not lying about you being
technically proficient as far as in my opinion, one of
the greatest musicians.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Working right now music, How do you.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I mean, what's the conversation in your head? Because a
lot of times I'll hear references like it's like you
still have hip hop techniques to your soloing, right in
terms of like I'll hear references like oh, okay, that
was the theme that the Jeffersons.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Right right, right right, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
But it's like, what's in your head? Because for me,
the pressure of soloing is one of the hardest things.
It still gives me anxiety to this value. But like,
do you get anxiety to solo or is it just.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Like it depends depends on the song, it depends on
the whole whatever circumstances that happened at that time. I
still have head trips about playing the electric bass and
I shouldn't. And I'll tell you why I have hit
well because even after all these years, I still get
the I didn't know you played electric.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Bass, you know, I'm like, damn, so uh wait, even
after nine albums absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, people
still see me with an electric bass and they're like
what really, I'm just like, oh yeah, totally and so
like and I see like, because I don't play the

(55:34):
electric bass every day like on GAT I mean, I
play enough electric bass where I think my technique is
still respectable.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
But I know that you get like some cats out here,
like our homie Derek Hodge, who really does it. Uh,
you know, all these legends like Victor Wooton and Marcus
Miller and cats who really really really do it on
a regular basis. And I don't know. Every now and
then I put the electric base on, I'm thinking somebody

(56:05):
out there and the audience is going, he's not as
good as Marcus Miller, which is true, But I still
get really uptight about playing the electric bass now now
houses for irony, except when me and you were playing together.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Well that's weird though, because of the gazillion times I've
seen you, most of the times it's like you're electric,
like when your Family Fair project came out, right, I've
seen you a lot like I always felt that you
You've devoted half of your projects to That's what I've
tried to do, tradition and right pushing forward, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
You know, speaking of that that recording a family Affair,
I think that was when there was a couple of
things that happened between ninety eight and two thousand and
one that was when I started to and in retrospect,
I wonder if if this was wrong of me to
have or if it was reactionary. But by ninety seven

(57:07):
it was kind of like, oh, the young lion Christian McBride,
Ray Brown protege went Marcella's you know, little brother club.
You know, it's just like you wanted to be your
old man. I'm like, come on you all, damn. I mean,
obviously I loved Ray Brown, you know, Ray Brown. For
me it was like the Muhammad Ali of jazz bass
of all time, went Marcella's great you know, mentor big

(57:31):
brother to have. But I knew my musical view was
a lot wider than that. So I thought, wow, I'm
getting painted into this corner. I want to do this
other stuff, and I think they're going to start tripping
once I decided to do that. So ninety eight I
knew that I see, I want to do something a
little more, a little more electric, a little more on

(57:53):
this side, you know. And so I hooked up with
George duke Man. A lot of people in the jazz
world they were like, I took it. Took it like this, Christian,
we really love you. So we're just gonna let you
have this one. We're not even going to acknowledge. We're
just gonna be like.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Because when I saw the fonts, when I okay, so
the day the album usually on the first week of
your album's coming out, Yeah, I'm buying it.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
And when I see in it and saw the font
at first, I was like, wait, didn't do a funk
record and not call me, I mean my feeling, so
you knew from the font it was it was from
the front, right.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
But then I was like, because I know, I figured
that your entry into the music world was the same
as my entry in high school, right, And I was like, okay,
because I know that you got a side of you
that wants to reference Bootsy and James Jamerson and Jacobin

(58:56):
Stores and all these you know, Lewis Johnson, Like there's
a whole other side.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Of you that you have you have to express.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
I mean, you'll, you'll, you'll salt and pepper, some ship
and a cut or two with with with your record.
But then when I saw that, I was like, Okay,
he's this is going to be his his flag planting
right now.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I never read the reviews of that record. There were none.
What was the general because again like and what was
the name of the record? What was the family?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Which is weird because you you swung and I love
that interpretation of it. He did a swing interpretation of
of of Fair of a Slyest song, so it's.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Also wait, I forgot to tell you. Is that the
one that opened Sesame? Dude?

Speaker 1 (59:51):
You ever talked to Ronald Bell about that? He loves
you forever for that, really yes, because he in his
head he envisioned all that stuff as serious jazz. For
you to interpret open Sesame the way that you did, Oh, man,
that made it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That made it. I always wanted to know if you
ever knew that you made his life with that. I'll
tell you what. After the family Affair, I got a
call from verdein white and uh, I'll never forget, like
like almost being frozen for a couple of days, you know, like, man,
we just wanted to tell you we got your we
got family, we got getting to it and family affair

(01:00:30):
on the tour bus and we're checking you out. Man,
we love I'll write a song for you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I was like, oh, Elizabeth, wait, I know, I know
you have crazy stories. Uh, I know that if she's
on your record, you have a crazy vested story. I
was about to ask, I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Actually don't, man, she was she was pretty mellow. Man.
I actually didn't know her. George Duke knew her. I
brought in these songs that I wanted to record, and uh,
now Shaka was originally singing, okay, stands we.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
Walked famously and then she'll send her best girls.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Though that was supposed to do. Don't look any further
real you mean with with Dennis Edward. Yes, no, kidding
him up. Was supposed to do the power with them up.
She's famous, bless her. Penny Ford didn't pretty.

Speaker 7 (01:01:40):
She said, I'll send the best girls.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yes. I met Penny Ford through Shaka. She was singing
background at that time. Yes, like so George. So I
brought in these songs, a couple of vocal tunes and uh,
George said, well who you want? I said, uh, well,
I want to get Shaka. He was like, you want
to make the call or you want me to make
the all. I was like, well, you know I know Shaka,

(01:02:02):
but your George du you know, so you make the call.
So uh he said, all right, I'll call her. He's like, uh,
shock us down. You know. She wants to do it.
I guess maybe a week later he said, Man, something
went down. Shock ain't gonna be able to make it now,
all right? Uh, He's like, how do you feel about Vesta?
I was like, oh Ship, yeah great. So Vester came

(01:02:26):
in and and nailed it, and Will Downing came in.
Uh George dude gave him the greatest nickname I've ever
heard for Will Downing. Just take a while. I guess
what he called him based on his initials w W
D forty.

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
What was the story behind your tribute for James Brown
and the aftermath of that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah, I was gonna say, give it us the tribute. Yeah,
it was your James Brown story is the k Yeah.
So getting to you finally working with.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Working with Yeah Brown. Oh man, you gotta let our
audience here. I know the story, but I'll do my
best to give you a condensed version because it's long.
But the gist of it is, we got today, all right,
we got today. Right on the gist of it is
that you know, as this man knows. Uh, you know,

(01:03:34):
James Brown has been like my bone marrow. So by
the time I leave Philly to move New York, James
Brown was in jail, and so I'm writing James Brown
letters like once a month. You know, I know he's
not getting them, you know, because I'm sure he's getting
hundreds of them per day. I was like, it's all good.
I just want him to know that I love him,

(01:03:56):
you know. So, Uh, nineteen ninety three, that's a very
CHRISTI and so uh in nineteen ninety three, I'm on
my first tour with Pat mctheeny and uh, We're playing
the Montreal Jazz Festival and I'm backstage and I'm walking

(01:04:21):
around and I didn't look at the schedule. So I
walked by one of the production doors and it says
James Brown stage plot what So I knocked on the door.
I was like, excuse me, Uh is James Brown performing?
It's like, yeah, when tonight? It's like what he said, Yeah,
he's coming on after y'all. Oh shit. And so that's

(01:04:45):
how you know you're a busy jazz musician. I am.
We were opening for James Brown. So uh that night, Uh, yeah,
I see Saint Clair Pinckney and Danny Ray and Martha
High all the jazz Brown. Is this the first time
you're seeing them? Yeah? How do you even well, enter
give me first time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
I well, I mean, I'm sure that in your travel
you saw like macy O and hearing that right right?
Because of your level of stand them, how do you
how do you approach? How do you nuance the approach
to let them know right without freaking them out?

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
I got lucky, and I'll tell you why. Because out
of all them guys that were standing in the wings
ron last year, I knew I knew them all. They're
standing in the wings and they're watching us, and I'm thinking, oh, man,
this is my shot. There was one brother who I
didn't recognize. He was a young dude. It turns out
he had just joined James Brown's band like three months before,

(01:05:40):
and it was obvious that, you know, he had that
rookie look about him. You know, he was kind of
like standing by himself and you know, kind of with
the band but not really you know. And he was like, man,
you sound great, man, you know, pleasure to meet you.
I said, yeah, man, you too. What's your name? Brother?
He said? His name was Robert Thompson, also known as
MOUSEI Molsie Thompson is his name? He said, y'all just

(01:06:02):
started playing drums with mister Brown a couple of months ago,
and so I think he was relieved to meet somebody
close to his age that he could kind of roll with.
So me and mouse started rolling that night. We started
hanging and talking, and I found a little bit of
his history. He played with Chuck Brown, He's from DC,
he played with Chuck Brown, he played with Wilson Pickett
before he got with James Brown. Uh only because James

(01:06:27):
made him. But he is very funky. And so I
got into the James Brown crew initially through Mouseie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
So Mousie was kind of, you know, metaphorically, kind of
took my hand and said, hey, guys, this is Christian McBride.
Is the brother y'all just saw and said, oh Christians.
I met Saint Clair and Danny Rain and I started
kind of working my way in and the the final

(01:06:58):
straw came the next year in ninety four, when James
played the Apollo and he did his final would turn
out of his final live at the Apollo Record. Uh,
that's where I met Martha High. Martha High was the
mother hen of the entire James Brown crew, and so
Mousey introduced me into Miss High. And then once I
met Miss High. That was pretty much you know, here's

(01:07:21):
your VIP pass, you know. And then do they know
you're Christian Bride? They did shortly after the Apollo gig
Getting to It came out, and so then they started
putting two and two together. They were like, well, wait
a minute, Oh, that's that's who that is, you know.

(01:07:42):
So ninety five, I'm on tour with this Verve Records
All Star band with Jimmy Smith. Would you say stand
up my level? So I knew that one of James
Brown's jazz heroes was Jimmy Smith, great jazz organist. Jimmy
Smith was on this Verve All Star our tour. So
I said, uh uh, James Brown. We were all playing

(01:08:04):
the Vienna Jazz Festival and James Brown was staying in
the same hotel. And I said, if I ever get
to meet James Brown today, I'm a drop that I'm
playing with Jimmy Smith. And so by that time I
knew mister Brown's bodyguards and he says, hey, man, you
just plotted yeah, oh man, dude, slow and methodical. I

(01:08:27):
knew it was a little smooke SI don't like all right, right,
and then once you heard the track you were like,
wait a minute, that's good at it right, right exactly exactly.
So uh yeah, So Reginald Simmons was his name. Mister
Simmons introduced me to James Brown and uh, it's like,
mister Brown, how you doing. I briefly met you at

(01:08:48):
the Apollo last year. I'm friends with Mouses and a
oh that's right son, Yeah, yeah, you're the bass player, yes,
sir said, I'm playing with Jimmy smith tonight. Like what, well,
you know, I love Jimmy smith Man and so, uh,
you know, we just he just sat there and wrapped
and just talked about jazz. And still then it was

(01:09:10):
still not like you know, just I was just geeking out.
We didn't really have any real meaningful conversation. So I
think everything finally took shape. H Right after that, I said, okay,
I got to stop all this all this fan stuff
and actually come up with something. What do I want

(01:09:32):
to do with James Brown? What's my dream? I said? Well,
I know I'm not going to ever be in his band.
He's not going to ask me to do that. I'm
not sure do it. I don't know, man, Just just
I've heard too much. Yeah, I mean I'm like, you know,
I mean, it was almost like you told me, because
I remember once asking you had you ever met MJ.

(01:09:54):
And You're like, yeah, nah, I'd rather just right. Well,
I thought, if I have, if James Brown actually ever
in the in the unlikely event he actually did call
me to join his band, I'm thinking, what would I do.
I was like, I just don't know, man, I don't
want to be putting on them red red tails every
night and in blue times and uh ms High asked

(01:10:24):
me that one time, and she said, would you join
the band of James Brown? Asked you? And I went,
she said you better not yes, ma'am okay. So anyhow,
I said, I want to do a jazz project with
James Brown because I know how much he loved jazz.
He's always name dropping the jazz cats. Uh, maybe we

(01:10:44):
could do that soul on top record live he did
this really uh with it soulo and something. Yeah, because
I figured I would. I figured he wouldn't do it
unless I let him do that. You know, that's right,
no matter what song on the actual key is in
you know, so down, I said, let me ask James

(01:11:07):
Brown if he'll be interested in doing soul on Top
with a big band. You know. I would write new
arrangements of his favorite jazz standards and he could play
organ and sing, you know, and uh, it would be
like a soul on top two point Oh. You know,
so I'll go back to writing letters, you know, so
writing on these letters, send them to his office. I'm thinking, okay, yeah,
I know letters are kind of kind of effective, but

(01:11:29):
not really, you know, keep sending the letters, keep sending
them letters. And uh, finally he came to New York.
This is in ninety seven, and mister Simmons sees me again.
I'm backstage head Radio City and uh, mister Simmons says, oh,
mister Brown, mister McBride is here. You remember mister McBride, right,
And James Brown said, yes, I do, mister soul on Top.

(01:11:53):
And that's when I realized he had started getting these letters,
and so he invited, uh, he invited me out to
dinner with his entourage that night. So now now the
rubber's hitting the hitting the ground, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Oxtails, that's right, the Oxtails and Champagne. I love it,
I love it, I love it. We went to Victor's

(01:12:27):
Cafe on fifty second and Broadway. He ordered oxtails all around.
He ain't ask anybody what they want. Everybody that's the
song say, oh man. So uh, that night we actually
started talking about maybe doing the Soul on Top project.

(01:12:50):
And uh a couple of months later, actually a couple
of weeks later, because this was Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving to ninety seven,
I'm sorry ninety six. He invited me down to Augusta
for his Christmas party and I said, oh man, I
can't believe how good this is going. I'm like, I'm
in the James Brown crew. This is trippy. And things

(01:13:11):
went really bad at the Christmas party. Wait, let me
get it ready right there you go. Yeah. So I'm
sitting there at the party, hanging with Mouseie because that
was my dog. He was my entry into the James
Brown What year is this? This was? This was Christmas
of ninety ninety six. Oh wow, And I'm sitting there

(01:13:34):
at this table with Mousie and Martha Hyde and Danny
Ray all these people sitting at the table, and James
was he was cool. You know. When I got there,
he was like, Miss McBride, wasn't an Augusta glad to
have you his son love everything you do, you know,
Thank you, sir. Get to the end of the party,
we're all taking pictures and I'm sitting there posing with

(01:13:54):
mister Brown and Miss High, and just before the camera clicks,
James Brown leans over. He says, so I'm empty you son.
I know what you're doing. You can't fool me. I said,
what are you talking about, mister Brown? Nah, I don't
get me that. I know what you're doing. I got
my eye. You trying to infiltrate my organization. Oh you

(01:14:20):
trying to take Miss High and my drummer from me?
Mister Brown? What you're talking about? You know? And then
he like kind of walks off, like pisted right, And
I thought he was playing right. And so I looked
at Martha How I was like, uh, you want to
help me out, you know. She was like, I don't.

(01:14:40):
Don't pay him no mind. You know, he's just tripping.
I was like, I don't know, he looks he looks
really mad, and so, uh, I tell Malsie what happened.
I'm freaked out, like my childhood heroes. Pissed at me, right,
And so he was like, oh, man, don't worry about Brown,

(01:15:02):
you know, see you're just getting in too close. I said, yeah, apparently,
so you know. And so I call him on the
phone a couple of weeks later. We're in the new
year now, and uh, I said, mister Brown, you know,
I just wanted to check back in make sure everything
was cool about that incident at the party, and you
know about those letters I sent you with the sold

(01:15:23):
on top thing. He's like, uh so, let me explain
something to you. I was like, oh oh, I could
just feel it coming. I was like his voice was tense,
you know. He was like, first of all, I ain't
making no record with you. He's like, I think you
got some mixed up son. If we're gonna make a record,
that it's gonna be my record. I don't make no
guest appearances on nobody's record. You understand this is gonna

(01:15:45):
be a James Brown record. I ain't singing on your record.
Who you think you are?

Speaker 7 (01:15:49):
I was like, what your stomach feel like at this moment?
Like you on the phone, what do you I.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Was like, I was, well, I was I was too
shocked to feel anything, you know. And he was just like,
uh uh, you think you're gonna write some arrangements for me,
So I don't need nobody write no arrangements for me.
I ain't doing no record with you. Secondly, bullet, yeah,

(01:16:13):
he was like, I listened to your record all the
way through, and uh, that record ain't nothing. No no, no,
you can't play you can't play no bass. You got
everybody telling you a great bass player. You can't play
no bass. In fact, I'm gonna sue you forgetting to it.

(01:16:34):
I would have well. I was about to break out
in tears until he until he went here he says, uh.
He said, you just like everybody else, you're stealing my
music and and and trying to get rich. And then
I was like I had the audacity to stand up
for myself. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait a minute, mister Brown, he said. I said, sir,

(01:16:54):
do you have the CD? Because he was like rambling,
you know, I was like, sir, do you have the
CD handy? He say, nah, I don't have it nearby.
I said, look, when you get the CD, will you
please open up the liner notes and read the entire
paragraph I wrote about you, And you know how much
you've been in inspiration to me and how much Get

(01:17:15):
It Together inspired this tune and you know, all this
other stuff. And it's weird because he paused, he went,
you wrote about me in the line of notes. I said,
mister Brown, all you have to do is read it.
He was like, he was like, well, in that case,
I still love you, but I ain't making no record
with you. So but see, all of this is so

(01:17:43):
strange because a couple of days later, I get a
call saying mister Brown wants you to perform at his
birthday bash. And I'm like, yo, this is trippy, and
I'm thinking I should say no because I don't want
this drama, you know, but I'm an idiot. So I

(01:18:04):
took the gig, right. I said, I'm gonna go down
and play with James Brown for his birthday bash because
he asked me, right, and so I go this. This
is May of ninety seven. He had me play with
some house band down there and at the Bell Auditorium
where the Sex Machine album was made. And so when

(01:18:26):
I get there, Mossie, you know it was it was
funny because like the whole band was like, yo, man,
we heard what happened. Sorry, you know, we told you
he's crazy man, you know, And so U Mossie said,
Man Brown is backstage, you want to say hi, wish
you may happy birthday. I was like, all right, I
guess I'll go with torture. I know, right, So I

(01:18:46):
go back to say say hello and wish my happy birthday.
I was like, happy birthday, mister Brown, Miss McBride, great
to see you. So what song you're gonna play tonight?
You're gonna play that song you stole from me? And
so I was just like, you know what, I should
go to the airport right now, but no, but no, right,

(01:19:09):
I gotta I gotta be loyal. And so uh I
played my one little song. And at the end of
the night, James Brown on the stage he says, uh, ladies,
y'all want you to give a big round clause all
of the performance this evening. Uh, let's hear it for
the Blues Brothers.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Let's hear it for Kenny Wayne Shepherd. Uh Kenny Wynd
and the Blues Brothers. Is here for Eddie Floyd, brother
Eddie Floyd. Uh let's hear for mother of two? Uh
what yeah it was out. Let's hear for my daughter Yama.
Uh let's hear for Roosevelt Johnson. And so he left

(01:19:51):
me out. And so this is when I knew that
Martha Hyge and and Mousie were real friends. Mousie I
was waving the sticks like even as herd as I
am at this point like beyond insulted, like I donet
got got cussed out by the man, threatened to be sued,
told me I couldn't play. Toy wasn't shit. Even with

(01:20:13):
Mouseie going like this, I'm backstage looking at Mousie like,
don't don't you get yourself fired? No, stop it. So
Molseie's playing, He's like mister Brown, mister Brown. Martha High
physically walks up to James Brown in the middle of
his ranting and like James b said, oh Lord, have mercy,
I forgot How could I forget the great Christian McBride,

(01:20:35):
Oh please forgive me the fugus bass player in the world,
And and Martha Hyde looks back, She's like, you know,
I got you. I was like all crazy. And so
at that point I had no contact with James Brown
for nine years. I ran into him on the road
somewhere and I was just kind of like, yo, what's happening?

(01:20:56):
You know, kept walking, But in two thousand and five,
I was named the creative chair for the La Philharmonic
for their Jazz series. My job was to curate twelve
jazz concerts every season, eight at the Hollywood Bowl and
for at Walt Disney Concert Hall. And so I said,

(01:21:16):
with this new position, I got to at least see
if I can make this happen. I said, nine years
should be long enough. And so I called Charles Bobbitt,
the late Charles Bobbitt, and I said, mister Bobbitt, you
know I'm doing this thing with the La phil Harmonic.
I'm curating shows at the Hollywood Bowl. And you know,

(01:21:38):
I won't know if mister Brown would be interested in
doing a jazz big band concert. And he's like, oh yeah,
I don't know. You know, it might be hard to
make that happen, but let me put the word in
and see what happens. By the week later, Charles Bobbitt
called me back. He said, mister Brown said it's a
green light. What did you believe it? I actually did

(01:22:00):
believe it, because when he came to New York, mister
bob says, we want to meet with you at at
our hotel. It's hard for me to say what hotel
they stayed at. It starts with a T but uh
he said, yeah, you know that that guy in the
White House. Yeah, but yeah, come by there and uh

(01:22:24):
and we'll talk about it. So that's when I knew serious.
I said, man, James Brown, we're actually going to do this.
So on September sixth, two thousand and six, three months before,
months before he died, yep, we played at the Hollywood Bowl.
James Brown, how much rehearsal went into that. We had
pretty much just one one full day of rehearsals at

(01:22:47):
Center staging out in Burbank, and we only wound up
doing I think he sang five songs, five or six
songs with the big band, and then he did Man's World,
I Feel Good and Sex Machine with his own. So
it was the stage was was packed because his entire
band was on this side of the stage. The big

(01:23:08):
band was on this side of the stage, A string
section was in the middle, and we had a drum
perch for Louis Belson because we had him come out
and play one song with us since he was on
the original song on top album. So you love Risks Man,
There's there's a risk with older cats that you know,

(01:23:30):
Lord knows, I know that. I mean, you got a
nuance it perfectly. It's not hurt their feelings even when
they're wrong, they're right. That's so. And he never sued
you though he never you didn't even remember the angels talking.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
All right, So I nominate Chris the second to h
D Nice to be repeat guests because I knew.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
You got yeah, this is this is gotta be it.
We have not yeah, we even cracked the surface. Well
see bro, you first of all, I will always say
it on the record and off the record, but Man,
so proud to call you my homeboy and my friend. Man,
you you breaking barriers left and right. Man, so proud

(01:24:22):
of you. I'm trying to keep up with you. Man,
and I still and I still remember. One of my
favorite slang terminologies was one of his dad coined, uh
and that was cake cake. I never heard anybody use
cake for money.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Money before that was that was your pop can white man.
I got nineteen jobs, Man, you're going and get some cake, yo, Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
I thank you for coming on the show, Man, thanks
for having me.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
Yo, Man, this only beginning. I got shared on my
freestyle and next time, next go around you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Would have it yes or v Apple font Tickelos unpaid
and uh boss Bill Yes, Well, I wanted to say
very paid Bill and Sugar Steve. This is Questlove Quest
Love Supreme and we'll see you on the next go round.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
Thank you, West.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.