QLS Classic: Marley Marl

Marley Marl shares some of his studio secrets and talks about how he earned his spot as a legend in the early NYC scene.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yo, y'all check it out.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's Fonte Fantigolo here with this week's QLs classic. All right,
this week we talked to the man, the member of
the legend, Marley Mal. This one was originally released January eleventh,
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
And listen, it's Mally Mal. You already know what it is, Marlly.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Mal Juice crew, you talking everything ll mamasa to knock
you out.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
He shared some of the studio secrets.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
And talks about how he earned the spot as a
legend in the really New York City scene. This is
an incredible episode with one of my favorite producers of
all time.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Get into it. QLs classic. Alright you Peacy.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Pramo self Primo rod ca so Primo self Premo, roll
call Suprema something something Selpremo roll call Suprema something something
Supremo roll call.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
My name is Questo. Yeah, I know the time there
weep in the rocks. Yeah, at the jump of a dime.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Suprema something, Supremo role called Suprema son something, Supremo role.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
My name is fante. Yeah, I got so much soul. Yeah,
West Love Supreme. Yeah, and we in control God.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Suprema something something, Supremo, Role call, Suprema something Supremo.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Role call.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
My name is Steve, yeah, without a flaw. Yeah, they
call me sugar. Yeah, Supremo, roll.

Speaker 5 (01:52):
Call, Suprema Son Supremo, roll call Bill. Yeah, to the
extreme yea dropping bars Yeah, Chris Love Supreme.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Ro car Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, roll.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Call jump rhyming. Yeah, I have no skills. Yeah, so
what's my name?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah call Oh, Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Supremo.

Speaker 6 (02:29):
Yeah, wit New Year's Blessings. Yeah, I can't wait to play.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, roll Suprema, So Suprema, roll call Suprema So Supremo.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Role called.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
My name is Morley. Yeah, it's all on me. Yeah,
when we get through. Yeah, what's it for me?

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Oh, Sprema Son, Son Supremo, roll call Suprema Son, Son,
Suprema Role Suprema, Supremo, Suprema Son Supremo Role.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode
of Course Love Supreme, the first of this New Year,
Happy New Year to all of you, Supreme. Yes we
made it. We we Yes it did not drink ourselves
at all last year. We did not drink ourselves whatsoever. No,

(03:33):
I'm your host, quest Love, and we have another really
great show in store for you. On the show today,
we have one of the most important people in hip
hop history. And that's not an exaggeration. No, but I'm
known to exaggerate. I'm known to go full extreme on everything.
But no, seriously, you know, no, seriously, I would no

(03:59):
for real, this this this, this man was a pioneer
and and he is history. And I don't want to
make it sound like it's it's it's old in the past,
but this man is one of the most important figures
in mind. His DNA runs through everybody, Yes, in the
development of some of the best moments in hip hop history. Hey, hey, hey,

(04:22):
I don't breathe dust. Now, let's welcome our elder tell
let's just give it up for Mollie, mam. Hey, hey,
what's going on?

Speaker 3 (04:34):
It's going on?

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Lest Hello, how are you? How are you? Thank you?
Thank you for coming? Uh you know to be here?
You know you called and I gotta come here at
the drop of a dime. You came, you came. Yes, Uh,
we have so many questions, uh for starters. I'm really
glad that you're here. Because for all of the folklore

(04:56):
that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx
and the in the Bronx and the Bronx and the
Bronx and the Bronx, I know that the other girls
have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely, rarely heard about,
no doubt, no doubt. And I know that you were
born in Queens Queens, Queensbridge Projects, you know, ninety six

(05:16):
buildings of terror AKA, you know, but that's why I
was brought up in L I C. Queens Bridge Projects. Really,
so you were born there and you born and raised there.
I lived there all my life. I mean, my mom's
she was there before I was born, you know, and
then you know, then when I'm when I was born,
then we moved to another apartment, and then we was

(05:37):
there for forty more years.

Speaker 7 (05:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's
up a house in my career later on in life
and finally move out the project. But my moms was
there for over forty forty joints. Wow, So what was hardcore?
So what was what is the history of hip hop
coming to queens? Like to hear to hear the focalos

(06:01):
say it was only in the Bronx and only in
the Bronx, But I mean for you to be as
legendary as you were, you are you telling me that
you had to travel all the way to the Bronx
to get well. The first time I ever heard hip hop,
it was I was in high school because we had
DJs and queens. There was more on the on the
disco tip, you know, because when you when you when
you look at hip hop and what they did for
and coined the phrase hip hop around what they were doing.

(06:24):
It was a little different from what everybody else was
doing in the city. You know, when Cool Herk had
his parties, he was playing the break parts of the
of the music and queens they was playing the whole mute,
the whole record, the whole song, the whole song, but
they was taking the break sections. And you know that's
why I could say that. You know, everybody had DJs,
everybody had their movement, everybody had they toasters on the mic.

(06:47):
But I could tell you that that that hip hop element.
It definitely came from Cool Herk because he was the
first person. And maybe it wasn't on beat, you know
what I'm saying. I heard the tape site right right,
really right, It wasn't really on beat, but you know
they were. They brought something different. They was playing at
the break big part of Apache where in Queens would

(07:09):
have played the whole record. So did you just come
out the gate love of music? Like how did music
and spending your life like in your childhood? It got
to me because my older brother Larry Ladd in the
in the record The Bridge last year, it was like
Jappie Jack Gas cool brother by the name of Gas
t Tom and then my brother Larry Ladd it was

(07:30):
early DJs in Queensbridge and the Bridge record because you know,
in the Bridge record, we was just stating, you know,
what we saw growing up, right, So we were stating
the things that we saw. We never said hip hop
started in that rhyme. Yeah we know that, but you know,
we just was describing things we've seen growing up. And
my older brother was a DJ and you know, my
stepfather kind of you know, talked them out of being

(07:51):
the DJ, and like, yo, you know, you know, there's
no real money in that. You don't going to service
man going to service. So he went to service on something,
you know. But it was all good because he went
to the service and he worked at NASA and retired
from NASA, so he did really well. You know. I
took the DJ route who records. Yeah, that's why you
know my record, my my library's kind of extensive because

(08:15):
I got their records when he left. I had a tachi,
I had, you know, a lot of the records that
I was sampling was their records. So you have a
natural version, right, had their original the African woman with
the other on the other side, the colorful one. Wow. Yeah, okay,
So what was digging like back then? If there wasn't

(08:38):
a thing that's digging culture. I mean, for me, digging
was just going to my brother's creates that that stuff
they used to play because they were dancer guys. They
was you know, there was there was break dancers before
break dances. Everybody was a dancer. On every DJ crew
had like their dance crew with them. I could just
say it like there you go. So in older records
they used to play. Digging for me was just going

(08:59):
through some of my brother's old records that they used
to play, because I used to see them play a
lot of records, and by the time I got to
be a DJ, I would remember a lot of stuff
that would make the party move. And I would just
go right into my brother's records and then h to
be honest, a lot of the records that I would
find and start sampling. Then they would make those breakbeat records.
After this around my brother, I started DJing around about

(09:24):
seventy eight or seventy seven. I got the bug. There
was like a song called Disco seventy seven out I
had drums on it, and you know, and I heard that.
I was like, oh okay, And I played at a
you know, a house party in Queensboro. It was probably
around that time. But before that, my brother and them
was dj and in the park. They was the first
DJs to come out in Queensbridge. It was the first time,

(09:46):
you know, ground zero hip hop was my brother and
them doing they break they dancing and all that in
the middle of the block. And so that, you know,
then everybody else started DJing out there. So would they
They would throw the parties in Yeah, they would throw
the part and Queens and Queensbridge Center, or they would
be on the block first. Then it got so big
way they had to take it to the river park
across the street, Queensbridge Park. So how in my in

(10:12):
my mind, I'm thinking the folklore of you know, the
park jam that you always hear hip hop a story
and speak of all right, being as though you've seen
every level of presentation from the park jams to full
blowing concerts straight from the tapes. You gotta start with
the tapes that was just circulating the city first. But

(10:32):
what I want to know is what were the sound
systems really like? Oh, okay, right, well, I could tell you,
to be honest, I'm gonna just go down the line.
The Bronx they had like a lot of house speakers
put together, like a lot of people putting this, you know,
like housing them together. Ye're putting their house speakers together,
piling them up, taping them together. And that's how they
used to come out, which was cool because you had

(10:53):
to use what you had, right and Queens they had
a little bit more money so that the sound systems
was a little better. The King Charles and these guys
used to come out with you know, they had. They
had rich Al Long systems, really rich store them like
they believe me, King Charles and them, they they had
I believe they had the Richid Long system. And you

(11:16):
know Twins had a Richid Long Sis Disco Twins had
Richid Long births. The Queen's Guys was coming out with
the birth is Brooklyn now since the Caribbean and Brooklyn
was always bumping forever. You know, there was always Eastern Parkway,
so that rubbed off on the DJs. So so when
you was coming through on Eastern Parkway with the Jamaican music,

(11:36):
somebody figured out, Yo, you don't got to be playing
Jamaican music with this music. With this sound, you could
put hip You could put Thisco, regular records, regular records.
So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was
always the ship okay, and and it kind of rubbed
off because you got to think about, this is what's
never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop,
and I was formed, Jamaica has a big influence on

(12:00):
how it was started. Here you look at the main people,
the main players, Hirk, you know the system guys. You
know the sound system guys used to come out the
you know, what's his name, Pete DJ Jones, and you
know all these guys used to come out with big systems, right,
what's his name? King Charles was Jamaican. He had one

(12:21):
of the biggest systems in the city back in the days.
So just let our listeners know in Jamaica, like the
more bass you had, the more bass cabins you had,
you know, stomach rumbling inducing, right, basis that was the
important factor right now when you speak with cool Herk,
he was basically probably jamming, bringing his music out. For

(12:42):
what he's seen when he's in Jamaica. As a kid,
the music was always out. He got to America, you
was boring around here bringing the music out. You're talking about,
I see, let's go to the park, Let's take it
to the let's have a party of it, bring the
music out, the sounds. What are you talking about? Let
me show you what I'm talking about. He did it.
Then he probably got bored and playing the whole record
to get down part Oh, that's the part of everybody

(13:04):
get excited about. I'm gonna do a whole party, which
is playing nose. That's what he said, and that's how
it started. I was gonna play the hot part of
the records. That's it. You were playing these parks in
seventy seven. No, I was watching the Disco Twins, my
brother and them was playing probably about seventy five ish,
seventy four ish and three ish. By then my brother
went to the service. I started seeing the Disco Twins

(13:26):
come I got in high school. I heard rap for
the first time, and you know, I had formed my
own little crew. I was a little DJ around the way.
We wasn't we wasn't doing we wasn't we wasn't rocking
break beats. We just we was doing what we saw. Okay,
you get what I'm saying. So we saw the Disco
Twins in our area, so I obviously we was following that.

(13:46):
But when I heard rap and got my crew together,
the game changed. I'm assuming that around seventy eight, seventy nine,
it hits you or like, how are those tapes come
from the Bronx? How do they go to queens?

Speaker 7 (13:58):
Like?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
All right? So it was it was weird because those
tapes in the early part of hip hop, man, you know,
when they was only doing it in the Bronx and Harlem,
those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like
the Internet, right, they were spread throughout town like the Internet.
Everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes,
and you know, it was the greatest thing about that time.

(14:20):
You know, the schools were so integrated in New York
City at that point. You have people from Harlem in
your school. You have people from the Bronx in your school.
You know, you have people from Queens. So one good
thing I can say about the schools in New York
City you was able to see everybody's style because everybody
was it was all integrated. You know, people was from
Manhattan in your school, so you got to see what

(14:40):
they was doing in Manhattan. I was in a school
called Manhattan High. We act dudes from the Bronx. So
what would they doing in lunchtime? If somebody wasn't over
there beating on the table, somebody was coming through a
big radio playing a breakout tape with echoes, and everybody's like, oh,
and I'm like, I heard somebody rhyming over dance with
the drummers beat. It changed my life, really, yeah, that

(15:01):
changed my life.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I heard it.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
It was this way before rappers light and yeah, yeah, yeah,
this before rappers. I heard it was just a breakout
tape and you know it was dancing drummers beat and
of course they was cutting it off beat because you
know they ain't probably didn't have Q yet. But he
was out there talking and going to freak out out
and they had the echo on it. It was burnt.

(15:23):
He was going yeah, yeah, yes, yes, y'all y'all and
the echo out YO. Me and Polo looked at each
other because Polo was in my school DJ he was
in my school. We looked at each other like, yo,
what is wow? And Yo. The rest was like it
was yo. I went and started a crew, a short
shot crew in Queensbridge after that, and I was on
my way at Queensbridge is this time like if you

(15:49):
live there all your life, why are you recognizing a
three year old Nazia Jones? Do you see that's nave
old prodigy the little the toy guns in the window.
I wasn't. It wasn't quite like that. The funny thing
about Proligy wasn't from the Bridge but Havoc. He actually

(16:13):
lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because it's so much burnoff
foul from the Peace Boys. That also yeah, yeah, he's
from QB. He sings, he sings with the Rolling Stones
right now. Yeah, yeah, so he they lived in the
same building. Damn like lightning struck twice in that building.

(16:34):
So the Peace Boys, that whole family is from that.
Burno Off Fouler and his brother Fred and yeah and
his sister. I never knew that. Yeah, from Queensland. Now.
I was in the next building from that making all
my hits. Really yeah, that was on twelfth Street. So
I used to hear Havoc's uncle blasting the music out
of his window on the fourth because the Fowlers, I

(16:56):
think they lived on the first or the second in
the building. And then the Anything Dimples delved in the
next building. So it was a lot happening on twelve
Street right there. So you would have the system battles
of the windows, yes, yes, yes, and right in the
windows your own radio. It was battling right out the window.
And that's that was the house where I made like
everybody's president. That was the house where I would watch

(17:17):
the people walk across the block and go to the
train stage, and if they wouldn't stop dancing, if they
wouldn't stop and start dancing, I would scrap the beat?
What right? So I knew I was blasting out, nobody
would stop and go oh oh oh, I'll probably scrap
the beat and start something else until I see somebody

(17:37):
do that. And those are the most of the beasts
that I kept.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
That's dope research. That's like we should go back.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
It's like your very gordy sandwich to yeah, yeah, dolloaded sandwich.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess
the first time that I heard of you that a
Leams record was really really big in Philadelphia and that
was le Roy Burgess, right, yes, it definitely wasn't the Aleens.

(18:08):
What's funny? What's funny about? That's like that's where I
was headed before. Kind of well, okay, explain explain to
me the edit culture because I know that between like
eighty two and eighty four it was like the Latin rascals. Uh,
I mean, who else were was in that world where
they used those like the art noise hard drums and

(18:31):
you know what I mean, like like jelly Bean was
in that. So you were about to go that route first.
I was there because you know, you got to think,
like you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on
my block in Queensbridge too, so he wrote a lot
of records like thanks to you. You know, yes, I
can't even sit there and mention records, but he lived
on the block. So Andre Booth was there. It was

(18:54):
like it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had
records before me on the radio. You know. Andre Booth
made this beat his mind, rock shock and all of that.
All these dudes lived in my hood. And I'm looking
at these guys like, wow, these are gods. Their music
is on the radio. I'm not even a DJ yet.
I'm trying to hang around these guys, you know what
I'm saying, and you know, and and and and figure

(19:16):
out what they're doing in the studio. And Andre gave
me a shot to hang out, and he introduced me
to Arthur Baker. And that's how I started, you know,
that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session
I ever went to with him was Jazzy's Insation. So
you were an apprentice of Arthur Baker. Yes, yea. Baker
was dog the things you learned, So Arthur Baker is

(19:42):
I mean pretty much uh, you know, planning from planning breakers,
revenge on the beat Street and I believe did he
not have a handing candy girls? Of course? Of course. Addition,
that's why Dimple's d record was on street Wise Party
Okay my first record, boy, I thought it was Sucker

(20:02):
DJ's Yeah, Sucker DJ's DJs that was on Party Time,
the Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That
was because I remember it's yours being on the Party
Time def jam right. So who owned Party Time? That
was Arthur Baker, I believe, and I think later on
they broke off and went to with Russell with that.

(20:22):
I do believe. You mean to tell me that Rick
Rubin and Arthur ber Baker could have been a combo
and it fell apart, and then I don't know the
things you learn, yeahs to investigate. Yeah, so it could
have been something by that point, like what how legendary
was Arthur Baker's status? To be honest, when he first

(20:43):
heard My Dimples the demo, he was working in a
warehouse in a story of Queen's Okay, we want to
go see him at a warehouse at lunchtime. So it
was nothing popping from yet, not even Planet Rock or
it was starting the label because we had Party Time
and that was the beginning of the label. That was

(21:04):
like one of the first two records off the label.
So when he first started dropping Hiss dropping his joints,
he heard my demo at lunch break in the story
at a warehouse next for a story of projects. So
he's working what equipment now around? I guess it's eighty three,
eighty two, eighty three or what equipment are you using this?

(21:25):
At this time, I had a four tracker set in
my house, a task scan that barret from my dude, Paul.
It wasn't even mine, okay, so you were just and
I made mally scratch off that one. But I'm saying, like,
what what drum machine? What drum I had? Mally scratch?
I made it off of my eight oh eight triggered

(21:48):
by my Corg SD. It was a sample of our
delay for one second sampler our delay, and it had
but the important part on it, it had trigger inputs
on the back, so that enabled me to trigger off
my eight or eight to whatever sound I had in there.
So that's how I was able to make my beats.
So this is leading me to science. It's science. This

(22:12):
is leading me to believe that you actually read the
manual instructions on your drum machines, because with most people
I know, they were just like I taught myself for
blah blah blah taught me. I learned triggering, triggering, I
call it triggerology from working at Unique Recording, because you know,
if I was working there with authoring them, believe me,
all every record that was ever made and that eraror

(22:33):
was made at Unique, So was he working on there
was there was already into triggering, Like there was already
into triggering drum sounds on all they dance stuff. Wow, already?
So can you explain how that? Because it sounded so
it sounds so futuristic, I mean, especially in eighty three

(22:56):
eighty four. I mean this is pretty much the club
breakdance soundtrack of that period, right, but this is not
made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were you
just accepting the fact that there has to be a
new way to make music and make dance music and
all this technology I have to learn? Yeah, I mean

(23:19):
especially at that studio, Like yeah, I was. I was very, very,
very fortunate because the guy Bobby Nathan that own Unique,
he was like a tech head or anything that came out,
he would want to be the first studio in New
York to have it. Come make your shit over here,
because we got the Cinclavia. They had the Sintclavia before
anybody had it. They had the Cinclavia, they had the Emulator.

(23:42):
Feel like they had that. They had everything before everybody.
They had the emulator, they had everything. That's how I
was playing the Emulator and Release Yourself. They didn't even
have a twelve hundred out yet. Let me, I do
want to play that version? What makes it? Because you're
not you didn't produce the actual Leroy Burgess deuced right,
them and them and the Aleans brothers, the Twin brothers.

(24:05):
What's so weird about this is that Women's got the
Philadelphia like this is on side too. It's like the
Dove version, right, but somehow that became the only verson
to play. I've never even heard the actual proper the
radio edit, like, so yeah, okay, this this definitely ruled

(24:26):
my summer in in Philadelphia during all the eighties. Uh
is Release Yourself the remix by the what they were
called the Fantastic Yeah, the Fantastic Alleens. You gotta put
that sus Love Supreme only on FANDU. So that was

(24:55):
release Yourself. One of the was this your first remix?
Or that was that was actually one of my first
remixes that I've done. That was one of the hottest ones.
And that's where I was going musically, That's where I
was going. I was not even thinking about hip hop. Yeah.
I read in your interview with NPR a couple years
ago you were saying that you were kind of hit
it more towards the electronics side of things. Yeah, I mean,

(25:17):
come on, I grew up with for Giorgio Moroder. Bro
Georgio Moroda made me a producer. You made me want
to get into technology because they was doing things way
before everybody in Germany. You gotta hear they was triggering
in the sixties. Come on, sorry, I'm looking at these
guys like yo, they way ahead everybody over here. I'm
trying to be like them. How did they make I

(25:38):
feel love? Sound like that? It bugged me out. So
by that point, your goal was to elevate club music,
and like, what was your feelings of hip hop at
the time you were looking at hip hop. I didn't
even say I didn't like hip hop. I was, wait,
what I did not expect I liked hip hop tapes.

(25:59):
I love the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like
hip hop records. I didn't really like hip hop records.
I was like, so when you hear when you heard
love rap, you weren't like, I gotta grab for these
love Wrap that was later on. Love Wrap was a
little bit well no, No, I just meant like there
was some note that was that was moment that was
kind of like later on. But the early joints, like

(26:21):
the King Tins come on. You get what I'm saying.
Even even even as a DJ, you didn't think like, Okay,
this will keep the party going, this is what the
kids want. Nah. That is shocking God of hip hop,
because I have to spend time, right, you have to
think about the time records that That's why I had
to That's why I come change things. But hear me out.

(26:45):
You gotta hear me out. You get what I'm saying.
Cause first I was like, yo, I don't I don't really,
I don't like where it's going. Because when I first
heard rap, it was off of a tape. It was scratching,
it was echoes, it was breakbeats. It was like an
occasional gunshot from from a a fight at the you know,
because the tapes you see sometimes and with a shootout.
Oh yeah, everybody scuffling and running and it stand to

(27:06):
the tape, Oh it was a shootout. Oh the party
was but anyway, but you know, so once it got
on Wax, you felt it got too horigonized, and I
felt that it didn't sound like what I fell in
love with. It wasn't. It wasn't James Brown. You get
what I'm saying, because I see the tapes I was getting,
come on you you throwing on funky drummer and they

(27:28):
rhyming with the echoes over that. Now you want to
give me a band playing good times And I'm supposed
to be impressed after I was been cutting up good
Times and seeing the crowd react to how they reacted
to the real stuff and the real deep and a
realm on it. So when the records came out, I
was like, no, it ain't like that. That's weird because
I mean, having no knowledge of that. I mean I

(27:50):
would listen to I would listen to something like uh okay,
take like sugar Hill Groove. I knew about catch Groove
because I grew up next door to a DJ, so
I always remembered hearing right and always knows he always

(28:13):
played the like our rooms were adjacent to each other
and our households. So I always remember that break. As
a drummer, I remember that break and didn't put two
and two together that like, oh, okay, sugar Hill is
just approximating. It didn't hit me until I was older
that I got what they were doing, that the technology
wasn't there to really to really reproduce what that moment was.

(28:36):
So you're saying that by that point nothing on sugar Hill.
I was no. I was not impressed because you know,
even when I have the DJ for Magic, I wasn't.
I wasn't a hip hop DJ. I was a blender.
I was playing in the clubs already. I was doing disco.

Speaker 7 (28:51):
So what was the first record that you heard on
Wax beyond your own that you was like, all right, maybe.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
It could have been around maybe around around Love rap
because of the beat was so hot. That sounded like
a breakbeat to me. So that's when it got a
little better. But the earliest shit I couldn't. I couldn't
stomach it. I was like, nah, this ain't going nowhere,
But yo, beat this. She ain't going nowhere, I'm saying
in my mind. But you know, it kept going and
then mister Magic started playing it. And I wasn't even

(29:23):
listening to mister Magic. So was he established? Yeah, before
you even started ding with him, Yes, he was. He
was on the radio playing rap music already. I was
a disco DJ playing at Pegasus. He was on the
radio playing rat Okay. At what point was he on
the radio? He went to WHBI I had to be
I had to be like had to be like seventies.

(29:49):
It was in the seventies or something like, so he
has long history, has seventy eight seventy nine is maybe
early eighties something like that. He started going on the radio.
But at that point I wasn't even into the I
wasn't even I was one of the believe that wasn't
going nowhere until it started getting a little better. When
did it get better? To you? Sucker mcs ah tell

(30:11):
me about Larry Like right, Sucker mcs gave me hope.
It gave me so much hope. I made Sucker DJs
my first record. That's a mighty statement. Uh, you know
what I'm saying, I want, I want, I want to
run Socker. DJ's real. So Dimple's D from your what
building when she in? She's from twelve Street and Queens Bridge.
She lived in that same Royd buildings, burn Off, Foul

(30:33):
and Havoc, and I lived in Okay. So this is
your official first production, my official first the response to
soccers from run DMC. I was m the night I

(30:59):
was good, so the film was right.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
I came to the party for a different kind of
actions and next thing I know, I was doing with
Michael Jason out.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
This is Quest Love Supreme on Pandora. You just heard
Sucker DJ's by Dimple's D and today's guest legendary DJ
and hip hop producer Marley mal This is on a
lyndrum Lynn Drum. I even THOUGHTS and I went to Unique,
I rented two hours of time. It was thirty five
dollars an hour. You had to rent it, Yes, I
had to rent it. You couldn't do it by on
their back. No, no, no, I wasn't even working there, y'all.

(31:28):
I just lived in the neighborhood. The studios up the street.
I heard they had a Lynn drum in there, and
I and I got it was thirty five hours an hour.
I got two hours of time. I went there and
tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my
four track, and I took the four track home and
she did her vocals in my living room.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
So the setup in your house, I believe the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame has a matching. Have you
seen it? It's like a mock setup of what your
studio would look like, at least at the when I
was visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. This
is like back in two thousand and four, two thousand
and five, What is your home system looking like? At

(32:08):
this point, I had like a little four track, a
sunboard and that was it. So what were your neighbors
thinking at this moment? They probably was thinking, well, I
wish he would turn that shit down sometimes and take
to speak out the damn window. So at that time
in the eighties, did you feel secure with like your

(32:29):
livelihood inside that building or was it just that you
never left it for anything to happen. No, I just
never left it for anything that happened. Plus, I was
the neighborhood DJ that you know, people was getting famous,
and people would sit outside my building just to see
who's coming to my house. So it was all good
at that point. Okay, I want to ask about your
pop art period. Yeah, because I instally thought you were

(32:52):
a Philly guy. Right, I'm from Philadelphia, you know I
got I got a shout Philly out. How did you
meet the Goodmans? Dude? Philly put me on? Really in
hip hop, man, I gotta say it because if it
wasn't for Lawrence and then with Rox Sans Revenge, Rox
Sans Revenge was pinnacle for me. Okay, that was like
a pinnacle point in my career when I got tooken

(33:15):
serious after that. Before that, I was, you know, dj
on doing this some round doing, you know, trying to
put out these other records and these something no examples.
It blew up and Philly put me on, put us on,
just to let our listeners know. So around nineteen eighty four,

(33:36):
a group of Brooklyn producers Full Force right right, put
together a record called Roxanne Roxanne That's right TFO. One
of the actually, am I incorrect for saying that that
might be the first time that an actual break beat
was used or modern hip hop because big beat, that's right,

(33:58):
break orange educated rapper, second verse. So I don't know
what it was about this record, but I mean it's
the typical storyline of three guys trying to kick it
to a female and they all get rejected and somehow.
I mean, this was one of the first viral moments.

(34:21):
I mean, if it's social media were invented, this would
be the trending number one trending topic because as a result,
so many response records came out for Roxane Roxanne, and
we didn't even meant I didn't even mean for it
to be a record. Once again, this was another Marly
Mall exclusive. I want to have a special record for
me being a DJ, and someone heard it and made

(34:42):
a record out of it.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
Right.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
I wanted to dub plate special with a female talking
about I'm rock sand and I played it on Mister
Magic Show and it was it was fire. It was
like I played a few days before Christmas. By Christmas Eve,
it was number one on Billboard. How did you rox
Sante Chante. She lived on my block in Queensbridge, and
she know she used to always see her and the
siphers on the block. You know, she used to always

(35:08):
be insiph as her a dude named Infinite and empty Shan.
There was like battling everybody on twelve Street, and I
used to always see them. And you know, one day
she she was doing her laundry. You know, she said, Yo,
knocked on my door.

Speaker 7 (35:21):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
You know you like that rock Sanding record. I said, Yo,
She's like, Yo, I got something for that. I'm thinking
that myself. Well, I have a special dub play. Oh,
come do that. So she came. We dub playd it
up and one take she ran back down was doing
her laundry. She did it between the laundry break. Yes, yeah,
the space brother seriously near one take, yeah, one take,

(35:48):
one take. We had had one cassette playing the instrument,
do another cassette recording, and she got on the mic,
did her thing on one take, ran back downstairs, and
the next week she was a star. Are there two
versions of the Yes we have to we do it? Yeah.
I feel like I've heard the original twelve is I
heard with the she asked you one that the as Yo,

(36:10):
let me explain, It wasn't as exciting. But then I
heard a version when she's like really screaming and explain
the first version that came out, they took the version
that we played on the radio and pressed that one
up and that was the first batch of records that
went out. The version I played off the radio. I
didn't give him the master. We gave him a copy
of us playing it on the radio. Oh my good

(36:32):
Oh my goodness. That's why he said that, because he
said that on the radio. Oh my goodness. I thought
that was part of the record. Oh No, that was
that was. That was him live on the radio saying,
oh my goodness after he played it. We gotta play this, yo.
This is Roxanne's revenge on court only on Pandora with
the great Molly Man will be right back.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
My name is don't know. I just a cold rock
up bunny, and I said, I'm at you, you guys,
and you know it's to let me tell.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
You and explained them.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
All right, this quest some supreme. We're here talking to
hip hop producer Marley Mare about his days as a
legend in the making so and also a hook singer
singing days. So were you a part of the other
Roxannes that came out? Because I saw Roxanne doctor and
well there was the real Rocks, the real Rocks and

(37:39):
rock real Rock. San was the Puerto Rican girl with
the blond here the forces.

Speaker 7 (37:45):
Okay, doctor Roxane, that's the original.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Right, he was the first one. There, you go. She
was the first one. So at any point was there
I mean, in our heads we're just thinking like, oh man,
bloodshed calfight's going to happen. But at any point did
you ever kick it with full force or the thought
of the idea of you know, doing something together or whatever. No,

(38:11):
I think that went right out the window as soon
as they came with, you know, they tried to do
a real rock saying yeah, but she was she was
She was dope. Yes, she didn't have to fire off Chante,
but she was really dope, and you know, and you
know after that, I mean, Chante was the last one
standing at the end of the day. Chante was really
the first one that did it. She was on all
the tours, she got on Fresh Fest with all that,

(38:33):
you get what I'm saying. She she she had us
on private planes real quick, really, and I didn't even
have a call yet. So at this rate you're saying
that this was catching on national. Yeah. Yeah, we had
sometime three shows in one day, and we had a
private plane so we could be here, go there, and
then go to the next show, and just you know,

(38:54):
it was just that away from like what were the
gigs like? Was it just try State northeat. We would
go you know, we would go to we went to Cincinnati,
then we would go to what's that Pennsylvania? Okay, then
we'll go to you know, maybe Ohio or something like that.
We would do it like that and just hit the

(39:16):
one song and one and done and two songs and
be out, you know, one song and I played eight
o eight when he just doing the freestyle and then
we'd be out. Really, now you pick somebody out of
the crowded this and get the crowd aped up. She
was on a Millie Jackson who taught him like, so
are you are you who's teaching the the entertainment aspect

(39:38):
of your juice crews? How tell you something? Mister Magic
was very If you think he was rude on the
radio to other artists, you couldn't imagine how he would
be to us as artists, like, you ain't wearing that
ship on stage with us. You're not going out like that,
Oh motherfucker, you ain't ready. He told Cae many times, Yo,

(40:02):
you ain't going out on stage with your hair like that,
and and then that's when Kine got started getting the
hot top fade before you had a big old afro.
What yeah, the seventies iry some damn that's the Magic
would have hated me. I know, mister Magic saying he's like,
you can't go on stage like that represent with us.
Then all of a sudden, King came back with the
hot top fake. There you go. But it worked because

(40:23):
he's kind of marketing them looking like, you know, if
you're gonna be the ladies man, you can't be the
ladies man like that. So oh, there you go. Now
that's the look that we're looking for, and they went
with it. And and that's why came was the sex
symbol out of us. I guess we should we shouldn't
note that. Uh, what's notable about Marley's presence in hip hop.

(40:44):
It's the fact that you know you represent will represent
a wave of one of the first families in hip hop.
There you as opposed to just you know, individual acts
coming out at the time. And we're speaking of the Jews.
So did you and mister Magic have this grand scheme
like we're gonna develop acts and then I'll play them

(41:06):
on our radio show and you'll spin it on the
radio show, and you know it was you know what
it was. We're in such a battle man, you got
to think it was battle mode. A lot of songs
we made was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on
Kiss FM. Explain all right, explain the initial rivalry between
Red and all right, this is how it all started.

(41:28):
Mister Magic was on the radio and BLS for about
a year. Then then Kiss FM decided, Hey, they went
in over there with that rep. Let's get it. Let's
get a wrap show too. They got they got Jazzy
J first. Matter of fact, I think it was it
got Jazzy J. First. He did it for a minute.
He didn't like it. He passed it on the Red.
Then Red and Chuck started splitting it. And then after

(41:49):
a while, okay, now we was doing it for a
year and then they started coming up. So that second summer, oh,
it was brutal in the city. Now it's two stations
playing rap on the weekends. Now, all right, this is
before the summer. Actually when school was in this was
this was just before that summer when everybody went to
school with a new regular tape or Mister Magic tape.

(42:10):
Every Monday back in school. You heard what they played,
hen it is, So we started, we started blowing up.
Then those tapes would go around the world. Those tapes
would travel to Philly. You get what I'm saying, y'all
would get those tapes down south. I know people down
south and Atlanta was slinging tapes. You get what I'm saying.
So those tapes were moving around. So it started a
big radio rivalry, Kiss FM against w b l S.

(42:35):
And now now all of a sudden, now I need
AMMO because mister Magic was the type of person, you know,
God rest his soul. He was good at heart, but
he would get on the air and this this is
an artist. So that means that artists would be mad
at him out of ass on millions? Was he really
talking about them? Yo? One day I played the public

(42:58):
and in the middle of the record, he yo, Mally
Mary turned that off? He could cut his Michael, turn
that off. I turned it off, your man, no more
music from the Sockers quick. And I was like, I
just start I'm looking at him, like, Yo, what did
you just say? Man? Yo? Because I'm the DJ with you,

(43:18):
I don't want to like we want to air together,
Like what did you just say no more music from
the sucker? So it went by. Then a few weeks
later PubL Agatay put that on the on their record.
When somebody took the recording of him saying it on
the show and put it on the record, he is
speaking of the beginning of pol amborum flavor, which is
I guarantee you no more music by a sucker, No

(43:40):
more music by a sucker, No more music by the suckers.

Speaker 6 (43:43):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Man, So how did how does Biz enter? And how
do you see Biz more than just a sidekick as
a start? Like, how do you how did you first
meet him? Well? Crazy, I was walking down the street
and I was like, Yo, there's a be box in
the building. And I'm like, come on, man, for real,
beat box schmek box. You thought it was a fat Yeah,

(44:07):
I was like come on. I'm like, I'm like, yo,
Doggie Fresh is out, Buffy Buffy's out. Ain't nobody touching
them dudes? You get what I'm saying. Like it's gonna
be hard. I said, I don't even want a hair dude.
But He's like, you know, but you got to check
him out, mam. Yo. He's phenomenal. He's something special. So
I go back to the building. He's doing a beat
box in the building. All of a sudden, when he

(44:27):
went right, bro, come to my house to mom. Bro,
you dope kid. That was like he blew me away.
He started, I want to, I want to. My name
is bis Mark. I was like, yo, if you're crazy

(44:47):
enough to chop your neck in front of me. So
at that point, did you feel like did you feel like, okay,
I could make anyone a star? Like did you figure
out like you knew what the formula was to make
the streets feel With Biz? It was kind of like
an experiment. I knew that he could have been a
good attraction to what we was doing. I was like, Wow,

(45:08):
he's real entertaining. That was dope. You know, maybe he
could he could rock with us. And you know, once
he got to me, Chante, Shanta and him got very
close and he started opening up for Shante. And once
I seen the reaction of the crowd when he started
opening with Chante, I was like, Wow, he's extra special.

Speaker 6 (45:24):
What was Biz doing? When you like, how old was
he when you met him?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
He was he had to be like it looked like
he was about eighteen or nineteen or something like that.
He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid
coming to the hood. Yo. He stayed for the whole weekend.
Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out
here all weekend.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
He was out here. A funny dude. He was out here.
We just sat on the park bench wait, brung out
the whole weekend in Queen's Bridge. He just hung out
with everybody. So that was just the thing. Do I'm
gonna go to Queens Ridge project? Yeah? But that's why
I had to move because you know, a few females
would do that too and they would get violated. So

(46:05):
I was like, let me move at it because I
want to be responsible. R oh, I know, I thank
you to him. Come on, man, that was happening too much.
So I was like, you know, let me. I got
to get up out of here. Okay, So are you
still going to proper studios to do the pre production
and coming into your crib to know it's right in

(46:27):
the living room in Queen's Bridge with a task him
with the assume at this point the SB twelve, the
infamous reel the Real or You're the real? Yeah, like
how many outlets did you have to like it? Because
I was electricity go out? Nah, NOA it was. It
was pretty cool. I mean it sounds like a lot.

(46:48):
I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all
those records. It sounds like yo. When you hear the records,
they sound so big and elaborate. But dude, I was
sitting there on a on like a shitty est quick
you say, nobody beat some business was just just that
was some some mcguira miracle like that wasn't It wasn't
a miracle. But the way I would make records, I mean,

(47:09):
come on, I'm triggering from an eight a eight, the
post from the eight away is triggering. Each sample is separately.
I didn't have a twelve hundred yet. This is before
twelve hundreds. They didn't even have twelve hundred. Yeah, I'm
sampling drums before they even made twelve hundreds to do that.
So I got I got three samplers here with trigger
inputs on the back the times, the low times, in

(47:29):
the high times, just triggering my drum sounds. And I'm
using a regular eight a weight from the eighth eight
and a regular high from the hot eight O eight,
but those are my drum sounds. Those three samplers was triggering,
So it was kind of like mcgiverish because yeah, they
didn't have that technology, right, I kind of like me,
I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash, Grandmaster Flash, like,
I want to, you know, invent a system that lets

(47:51):
me hear the music before I'm DJing it, and you
are I want to. I want to You're inventing triggering
without the idea of triggering, right, I'm inventing twelve hundreds
and the whole the whole software program or how they're
doing it, probably before it was even made, because nobody
the twelve the twelve s P twelve came out after that.
I thought you did that on a twelve No, no, okay,

(48:14):
So what was your Ben Franklin Eureka moment? Because I
think our listeners should know that more than any producer,
you're the one that figured it out a way to
take what's on a record and put it through technology
so that we could wrap over that instead without you know,

(48:35):
without DJ going back and forth of all the stuff.
So like, what was your what was your Eureka moment? Like, wait,
I can do that one day. We was working at Unique,
and I was like trying to sample something else, and
I think the snare went through by mistake, and I
was like rocking the snare with the beat, and I'm like,
that shit sound hot right there. Turn the other one down.

(48:56):
Turn that shit, turn original down, turn out, turn that
line drum down. I'm playing playing what I was doing
with the with the beat. It sounded so much better.
I was like, yo, could we put this on track?
And I put it on track and I sat there.
I was like, hold up, this means I could take
any record I have at home, any kick snare, make
my own pattern with their kicking sneer. I think I

(49:20):
never interned anymore after that day. I think that was
my last day of internship. I think I never returned.
I returned as mally Mal later to do mixes and
be famous, but I was never intern no more after that. Okay,
so you run home with the equipment, or you run
into your own equipment.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
I went home.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
I went around the corner to sam Ash and brought
little two little samplers. Like I'm thinking back then, this
is super expensive and hard to acquire. No, they had
little samplers for guitar players. Back in the day. You
know how they got there. You could play along with
it and play right, right, something they plays a little thing,
they play along with it, right, That's what it was.
Back then. I had a sampler like that. First, I
had a trigger on it, and I figured I could

(49:59):
put sound from the record in there and trigger it.
I ever wanted to know, okay, okay, And so these
records you were recording, still at your crib, still at
the crib. My matter fact, my first real sampler was
that was a little box that was this for guitar
player that then you know they have the loops on it. Yeah,

(50:22):
the thing that you do, the little cork box little thing.
That was my first sampler. But I bought one with
a trigger on it because I already was working at
Unique and I used to see, oh, trigger, everybody's trigger happy.
The post is popping everything off in here. Hold, if
I could get a sample that pulls to pop off too,
I could put what I want in there and it's
gonna do what I wanted to do. What was your
first thing that you broke that you were like, oh god,

(50:44):
I've discovered a new way of let me see, and
was it Nobody Beats the Biz, or it could have
been nobody beats the Biz that they could have been
that and and make the music. It was aund make
the music time around me, because I remember I used
to like that Isaac Case piano and when when I
messed around and remembered, how you know in hip hop

(51:07):
they used to play it in forty five to make
it have that certain tone, and I was like, if
I could make that certain tone with my own beat,
it would be phenomenal. And then once I made that,
I kind of knew I was here. I was like, wow,
that right there, because I was able to take my
own kicking, my own snare, go in the mic and
go and make my own high hat. Wa wait wait

(51:29):
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what what you
just saying? Say that one more time? I was able
to go to the sample and go in it and
be able to play it back like a shaker ghetto.
Come on, I have none myself. I've always wondered what

(51:50):
that was, because the thing that's so Doba about it
is that when we would do that beat, like in
the lunch room, that's how we were all do it
the same way.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
With my mouth.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
There you go. That's real quick.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Oh my goodness, wow, wow, yo, I want you, I
want to.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's not a want to. It isn't that I know
what it is. It Wow, now that you hear it,
now that you know, it's not like it wasn't the
Dougie Fresh Shaker. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
I was going to ask because I know when for
the show with Teddy Riley, like, what was that a
DMX DMX because I have a DMX and it doesn't
sound that wow, It's just like and I would try
to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way off

(52:54):
an email on Yeah, but I figured after that record
right there, I had it, and and to be honest,
I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about
a week. I made about a week's worth of beats
before it was. Yeah, but the Bridge was one of them.
Stunt of the Block was on Eric Beats, President Drums

(53:16):
was one of them. So at that point I was like,
I kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way
to save it? I was saying, cards right now, I
had it on real, So I had on real. That's
where the infamous reel. Okay, infamous reel was my hard job.
We got to talk about him, Piece to President. We
got to talk about him, Piece the President. I know

(53:38):
Munch has been said about like the importance of funky
drummers placing the panfe President is the greatest break meet up.
But yeah, I do feel that in Peace to President
is probably the common man's break beat first of all
ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet, right, So thus,

(54:00):
how did you run across? And was it just like
a source record that you were like, this will do well?
I got it. I got my version, my forty five. Yeah,
I saw Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now see, I gotta be
careful because he's bunked a few shots at me. I
know about with him peach. But he gave me it

(54:21):
because what happened. He gave it to you. Listen. I
used to this is when I lived in Queen's Bridge
on Vernon Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard, Queens
in Long Island City, like a few blocks down, okay,
and you know, and you know, and I was just
coming up and he's like, look, I want you to
go in the studio with Spoony g. I can't really
pay you, but I could give you a handful of

(54:42):
forty fives. Now you got to think about it. Aaron
Fuchs was the editor god you did the Godfather. That's
what I'm trying to tell you. I thought that you
did that. Yeah, I did The Godfather, right, here's The
Godfather by Spoony g Y. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm right
now and take it off. Of course he did. Yeah. Yeah,
So when I was doing those records, he didn't have

(55:04):
money to pay me. So he would say, hey, since
he was the editor of Billboard for funking Soul in
the sixties, so you're ready to know his record collection.
So he would always say, I got a handful of
forty fives for your here. And there was so many
rarities and that shit. Every time I was like, okay,
let me go make a record for him and get
his break beats, he breaks. He paid me with no

(55:25):
forty fives, bro and piece to President happened to be
one of them. The irony of everything is that he
was the person that gave me a piece to President
on a trade like that, and was later to come
back and sue for using that very break he gave me. Wow, Okay,
what is yours. Okay. I had a situation where all right,

(55:50):
I gotta be very careful because some certain people were
very reggitious with what do you mean by certain people? Exactly?
That's that's exactly how he approached me to like, what
do you mean leeches. No. At the time, there was
a situation with where jay Z and Kanye West otis

(56:15):
in which we all know that Kanye ends the rhyme
with Jay is chilling. Bit. Yeah, that's right. He did
come after him for that, right, And you know from
what I know is that he approached What's Light in
Milk's Father's na They were like, yo, he's quoting our song.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
Go get him.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage.
Like it's not we don't consider it biting. It's just
an homage. At the end of at the end of
the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close
to two million. My thing is that the very thing
and this probably extends to me and Boss Bill's argument
about amens versus body On that one, I'm as versus biting,

(57:04):
uh stealing somebody style. Well, yeah, it's like for me,
a person like George Clinton has it where It's like
he gives you great rates to take his stuff and
then you keep coming back for more. Right, keep the little,
keep the prices in the streets, and everybody come back.
The problem the situation with with Aaron Fuchs is that

(57:30):
he acquired the rights to impeach the president and then
he just went law suit crazy. Now I noticed that
all these seven figure lawsuits were always aimed the deaf JAM.
So I don't know if maybe he has a beef
with Russell or yeah, because like certain and pre president
usage got on, you know, he let it slide. But

(57:52):
with def Jam it was like one million, one million,
one million, one million budget. Probably, Yeah, what is your feeling?
I mean, especially in twenty sixteen in which I feel
as though we need more and beats the president, right
unless and I'm not I don't want to be that
guy that's like discouraging the future Marlies of the world
to not push forward technology.

Speaker 7 (58:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
But if everyone is just trying to cash in on
laying a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right.
I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the most popular breakbeat
right and sue you if you use it. I'm gonna
give it to the most popular producer. Let him use it,
get it hot in the streets. Then I'm gonna go
get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that use.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
So.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
And that's what happened. What is he is he just
living off of I mean the theme the scrubs Like, no,
I think that. You know, he looks at it as
his business. You know, somebody's got to do it, you know,
I feel his way, that's his way. I'm just to me,
he's looking at it as business. You know what. It's like,
that's the story of like music, like paying chess artists

(59:00):
with cadillacs and now look at it, you know what.
It's kind of like. It's kind of like when the
whole bubble bursted with sampling itself. When they found out
that you could make money off assuing everybody, everybody went
buck wow. At first, it was like, you know, yeah,
we're just doing it because it sounds hot or whatever whatever.
We're not even really thinking about it like that. Once
somebody figured it out that yo, you could get sue

(59:22):
for that, everybody went buck wow. It became a business,
and that kind of fucked the music. Everybody started using
doing keyboards, right.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
Is it fairer if it's going back to the arts.
Is that the problem is that the people most times
the Breakbeats or whoever originally owns it, it's not going
back to that person who really made the music.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Is that the problem if he were about like making
sure the honey Drippers were straight, right, Like a good
example now is the most one of the most popular
comedy shows on right now today the Workaholics their theme songs, Yeah,
skinny Boys, human job box. Like none of those guys

(01:00:03):
are They're not even aware that there is a subculture
of comedy now that like when I spend that song now,
like any millennials losing their minds because they're thinking, I'm
spending the work the Workaholics team, like, oh, this is
a real song. And once I did the investigation, like
none of those guys are, they sold their publishing and
it's just like it's one guy that's like just getting

(01:00:25):
rich off the work of Aholics team.

Speaker 6 (01:00:27):
So then that's the case.

Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
So if it was directly the artist, you would feel
a little differently about it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
Marvin Gaye was alive, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
But I meant, do you feel paranoid because the thing
is that your drums have single handedly fed and up
the game of hip hop between eighty five and eighty
seven and still to this day, Like that is you
building those drums? Like how do you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I feel? And is he trying to come? Has he
ever tried to come to you?

Speaker 7 (01:01:00):
Four?

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Just snares and high hats and nah. That's one thing
that you can notice when you when you just have
a kick or a snare from it, he doesn't go
at you. Kind of I'm just maybe I'm letting some
out the bag. But I noticed whenever it's he getting you.
But if it's like god, right, just a straight up snare, right,

(01:01:22):
He's like, oh, you can't really prove it the way
he could prove a loop.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
How did y'all put up settling? I mean without money?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Whatever? Details? Did y'all end up settling the round the way? Girl?

Speaker 7 (01:01:32):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I paid him. I paid him. It was like a
settlement and he got like a one time payment and
kept it moving. I believe it. I believe that's how
it went all right. So this leads to the infamous
real and Yes, and you're you're what I call the
not the manum from heaven, but the two loads of

(01:01:54):
fishing five pieces of bread or is it five pieces
of fishing, two loads of bread, fishing five loves? Yeah,
so so because you're not saving these sounds on disc.
No disc was here yet because there wasn't no way
of saving. There was nothing digital yet. They didn't have
floppy disc for our samples yet because there was no

(01:02:16):
twelve hundred yet. Right. So, what I would do is
put my drum sounds on a reel, put like one
kickbar and then leader, the next snaire, co leader, the
next kick, boom, high hats whatever. I had all my reels,
all my sounds on one reel, and you know, that's

(01:02:36):
how I used to go around. I used to go
with the artists. We used to sit there with the reel.
What kick you want to use? Boom? But I like that.
I like that, and that's how to make it for real. Yeah,
that's has to sit down, sit down with them. He customized,
like we gotta start doing that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
I think we do that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah, you do that, you play like you like that,
and you know you play certain things. But I was
just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just
godd shoo, that's not Oh. I would sit there blow
those in, make a quick beat, put put a put
whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Put the
put the snare in the high hat on one track,
put the kick in the baseline on the other track,

(01:03:16):
put the rhymes on one track, and sampling on the
other fourth track, and we got a record.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Okay, Now with that said, I gotta ask you, when
you hear this intro, what are you thinking on? For
years it never dawned on me. I don't know why.
For some reason, I kind of like blocked that record

(01:03:43):
out of my psychic for like years. Probably no, it
never nothing that they have existed. I probably never listened
to it. I heard it, but didn't listen to it.
If you know what I mean, It is possible to
ignore something and be willfully ignorant. Like there's one particular
artist in hip hop I can honestly say I've never

(01:04:06):
even I mean, this is like a Bonafi. Everybody in
their mother loves this product. I haven't heard it once
like I will. So as far as you're concerned, right,
criminal minded just never existed. No, I'm that record right there.
We're talking that record South Bronx. Well the bridges over

(01:04:28):
when when bridges over came out. I was like, I
heard it, but I didn't, you know, it didn't. It didn't.
It didn't. It didn't hit me like that was my
drum sound. It didn't hit me like that because I
kind of like, uh, be honest. To be honest, I
never thought that. Like when Chris first came at us,

(01:04:50):
I was like, now, who's stupid enough to I was like, Yo,
who's stupid enough to believe this dude? Who's stupid enough
to believe that he's saying that we said something we
didn't say. Who's that dumb to believe this motherfucker? And
I was like, that's when I realized, Yo, hip hop
dumb it in the motherfucker. I was like, God, damn,

(01:05:13):
who's yo? When he first came, I was like, Yo,
who's gonna believe this dude? We never said that? And
we the motherfucker Juice Crew because we got Kinge g
Rap So and so nigga, who gonna believe that ship?
And we and then everybody. I was like, God, this
nigga's a good, good con He caught ya niggas, he
caught a lot of motherfuckers. My assumption was that it

(01:05:35):
was something deeper than just him defending behind the Bronx.
Anybody wasn't from the Bronx, to see what I'm saying.
He wasn't fron the Bee. So where is he from?
He was from Brooklyn and the Homeless Shelter Christ is
from and Skylar Rock was from the Bee. You get

(01:05:55):
what I'm saying, Please explain? And I was like saying
to mysel yo, who gonna believe this dude? But then
but then I started really realizing that, you know, I
started realizing that that common sense wasn't as common as
I thought. And I was like, so I kind of
after that, I kind of backed away from hip hop.
I was like, oh, let me just sp but everything

(01:06:16):
was already done. I backed the way, looked at it.
I said, I know what I'm gonna do. We throw
Let me throw cane on these niggas real quick. Got raw,
you know what I'm saying. After raw, I was like, Yo,
now I'm back. I felt good again about it, but
I stepped back after while. So you felt as some
sort of way between eighty five eighty sixcess, I felt
I felt real, you know, I felt real crazy. I

(01:06:38):
was like, Yo, how the fuck niggas believe this dude,
And that's real talk. Why what happened? Like, oh, like
play record, I tell you exactly what happened. He tried
to get in the Juice crew up the day I
lost lost my reel up at power Play. He they
was they saw mister Magic and me in the studio
with Shante. Please mister Magic, listen to our demo. Please

(01:07:01):
please you Marlly Man come in the room and come
in the room with me. So I, hey, these niggas ship.
So I was like, all right, I'll walk in the
room with you. So I'll go in the room with him.
It's like the Buggy Down Production, all of them. They're
in the room like, yo, please mister Magic, Oh thank
you for coming in. Yo. This is a demo and
they put it on and plat it loud on the
room like this, jumping around. He goes. He goes off
to the console and shut that ship down. She was bullshit, man,

(01:07:25):
shut that in front of them, yo. He said that
straight in front of this ship is straight. God, do
you remember what was it? A song that later came out?
You remember what it was? I don't know. I probably
never heard that ship again.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
You know what all right, so peep it. They they
they had like four or five songs like no no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
No, no no.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Set they played that one song that he turned down
was like, Yo, turned the volume down in the middle
of them jumping around the room trying to sell it.
He was like, Yo, this is God, but you want
your niggas want real hip hop rock, sane, chante, Molly
mal mister Magic, juice true and walked out. So that's why.
And then when he's leaving the studio, I didn't want

(01:08:06):
to stay in the studio because he dissed them, so
I was trying to get out of there with them
and I left. My real wait, how many who was
in beat? Like was it Scott Chris? It was? It
was a lot of It was like a whole room
full of people. It was like, that's what I'm asking
It was like it was it was all of them,
all of them because they were so happy to see
mister Magic and they were such a fans of mister Magic,

(01:08:27):
and he dissed them. So it didn't come off like, Yo,
we about to fuck him up or like I mean
he was that was mister magic man. He was arrogant
and liked that back in the day, So retaliation, the
retaliation set didn't even get into the minds of hip
hoppers back then, right right, He's like, yo, I'm gonna
get them back. That was only one way in. I mean,

(01:08:47):
couldn't you him? Then where do you go? Right? And
then what happened too? And see you got to think
about it. Now, this is even before BDP was down
with red alert. They gave read the record, Red jumped
on with them because now he had needed he needed ammunition,
so he jumped in their crew. You get what I mean,
You get what I'm saying. So now now when I've

(01:09:08):
seen the whole wave of the Bronx supporting, I was like,
we didn't say that, but yo, the wind was already
blowing on the fire at that point, so it was
already spread. And like nobody stood back and say, oh,
them niggas never said that. You're talking about stupid, right,
you know what I'm saying. So it never it never
got cleared. So I looked at the whole ship for

(01:09:30):
years like, damn, well have you heard pre criminal minded
b DP? All right, I gotta play events like on
the box set of Criminal Minded there's like they're eighty
five eighty six stuff, which is like private demos. Yes
you probably heard this. This is advanced by Boogie Delle Productions.

(01:10:02):
Out of this magic was like, come on, man, they
got upset, but you know, but that gave them that
fuel right there. But I'm saying, where's that real right now?
Which one my drum? Real? I got that all day?
If I don't I walk around with that. If I
didn't known you want that, I would I would have
brought that we wanted. I got that out, to be honest,

(01:10:26):
I want to bake it right now. See what sounds
is on that bitch? That's dad ass. I would love
this because that that that kick in, that snin. You
gotta know that in peace the president the way it
sounds like that. And I know if anybody ever uses
any sample from that real, because you know how certain
popcorn on your samples that you know at a certain spot.
I didn't play my peach so much back in the

(01:10:47):
day that by the time I sampled it was that
much static on it. And I had that static on
top billing. I had that static on everybody's president. I
had that static on fucking funky Cole Medina. You get
what I'm saying, there's too many records. I had hit
that static where you can't tell me you didn't sample
my ship. See, I was under the impression that. See

(01:11:10):
I'm so glad we're having this conversation because in my
mind I'm thinking that this is where Paul c and said,
g of Ultra Manetic come into play. Oh, said found
the real So let's move on. Really, yes, so that
explains all right. Over because he tapped out the beat

(01:11:31):
for the bridges. Over said g Yes, that explains everything. Also,
of course you gotta tell him what song is it?

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
What's this is.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
One of the like this beat?

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
You?

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yes, one of these skill so you got its next
in there? You hear it. I'm telling you I lost
my reel. They went crazy, but that's okay to you
though it was, it was all good because I found it.

(01:12:11):
I found it, you know. To be honest, I'm glad
they made those records because those records right there helped
motivate hip hop. Now they following what the fuck I'm doing?
You get what I'm saying. So I had you all
in my grips because you have my reel making all
these beads. Now this is really starting to make sense
to me because I thought you produced our hometown hero

(01:12:32):
steady beat No Doubt before I let go. This was
like a big yes song in Philadelphia. Yeah your drums, Yeah,
of course. I think Lawrence was mad at me and
took my drums and made a record. So it's just like,
are people making copies of this reel? It's you know

(01:12:52):
once once I put it on the bridge, Yeah it was.
It was open. It was open, was the beginning of
the bridge. It was open, so you could your peoples
grabbing it from there. Eric B's President you know, Milk
said he, y'all, I didn't use your bridge. I'll use
President due. It's the same, real bro, if you got
it from there, it's the same drum sound. Buddy, What

(01:13:15):
was the story with beat Bider now so llll releases
this is really way to beat? Well? No, well, I
thought it was over Rock the Bells because right now
the thing is originally Rick Ruben told me there's a
version of Rock the Bells where he's doing it over

(01:13:36):
uh the Peter Piper Brick take me to the Martin
gro My Bob James and then run barked on him
like no, we got some ship like that you can't
do that. Wow. And so then Rick and l I'll
go back and do it over the trouble Front break
and then did another version of which mc shan claims

(01:13:57):
that you know this is so. What's really weird is
that at least four records for like early records of
yours are confrontational records of some sort between rocks and
between my early records was kind of like frustration records,
kind of like matter of fact, if there was meant
to be records, I did start going at people because

(01:14:19):
all right, we made the Rock Sande record, it did
what it did. I made the Dimples record, it did
what it did. I'm like, oh, ship, I can make
these type of records like a go at motherfuckers. So
I never knew about this beef with LLLL or at
least like I mean, it didn't really escalate, but I mean,
did LLLL even realize that it was? It was diverted

(01:14:40):
by Was it a New York thing? No, No, it
was it was diverted by b DP.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Once that came in, Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah,
have you heard b BID?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Did you hear you heard the remix of Rock the Bells? Yeah,
the original, the other version the other boom yeah that one.
So it was just so the same. This came out
first or that the real rock the bells came out
first and the remix came later. And when we heard
the remix was like, yo, hold up, that's the fuck
that is Mally scratch be. It was boom boom bab

(01:15:11):
boom bat boom back boom boom boom ba ba boom.
We was like, and he's and then he's talking about
rocking the bells over the same beat. He was like,
hold up, that's the same same pattern. I think you
were the first person to really introduced the idea of
a dub or an instrumental, because I think before hip
hop hip hop twelve inches didn't have the instrumental on it, right.

(01:15:34):
I remember one like maybe sugar Hill Birthday Rhymes, they
had a instrumental on the back. But you would always
do something where it's what we now call the TV version.
So when when you when you're mixing the studio, the
TV version is it's it's an instrumental and it's an

(01:15:55):
occasional background vocal guide so the MC knows where they
are in the song. Right, So like if I'm doing
the Freshman to belly. It'd be like, now this is yeah, yes, yes,
upside that right right, Like what made you I believe
you like one of the first to do a dub

(01:16:16):
or whatever, like was it for the purpose of doing
it live or no? You know I used to do
that because you noticed a lot of my records from
back then. I never gave instrumentals up to this day. No, see,
to this day, I found some instrumentals from like key Gats,
like how'd you get that right? I never gave instrumentals
up because I didn't want nobody rhyming over my beat

(01:16:38):
other than the artists. I didn't want nobody coming out
with mixed tapes. I don't want nobody coming out with
stuff yeah. I didn't want all that, So I was like, yo,
I wanted to when I put this record out, only
they gonna rhyme. You're only gonna hear them rhyming over it.
I never even gave you a space to rhyme on
those dubs. I would always put the vocals up, put
fuck you up a little. You're not gonna get clean sixteen,

(01:17:01):
No clean eight, because you're not gonna be rhyming over
my beats, I had to give up something. I wasn't
giving up that instrumental so let me And plus I was,
you know, I used to love Jamaican dub music back
in the day. I grew up of a lot of that,
you know, so I used to always hear my Jamaican
doesn't I always figure to myself why hip hop don't
have dub versions, you know, you know kind of like

(01:17:22):
when I was in Unique learning the equipment. I was
learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so and sos.
So I was like, always like, damn, it would be
hot to have, you know, to give it that reggae
flavor whatever, like certain certain words and you know. And
plus you know in disco they was, you know, doing
that a little bit too, So you know, I was

(01:17:42):
like hearing some like garage versions of stuff they would have,
like the echos, I was like, damn, they need to
ad in hip hop too. So that's another reason why
I went with it with the Bridge. I guess that
probably the most notable. Well, even you chopping up and
peached the President, I always noticed that I would say

(01:18:07):
that that record, if anything starts, what I feel will
be the accessory noise period of hip hop. Gotcha? Which, uh,
I guess you took Magic Disco machines scratching. Yeah, I
flipped it backwards. That backwards sound wasn't a mistake. That
was I want to use scratching because I already you know,

(01:18:29):
I was into my break beats. I already knew I
liked scratching. When I used it forward with the beat,
it didn't make sense really, you know when it was
because it was like, it wouldn't have made sense because
them I flipped it backwards and played it backwards and
triggered it and ran it with I ran it up
against the kick because it's triggered off the kick. It

(01:18:52):
created something special. So I was like, wow, this is
real special. I never heard nothing like this on a
record ever before. I'm turn this bitch up. So what
he's talking about is there's there's a break by the
Magic Disco machine called scratching, which normally I mean it's
a hip hop staple and most hip hop DJs will

(01:19:15):
it's called a stab if there's if there's a horn
part in the record with a good kick under it,
that's your exclamation point if you're a DJ. So when
you when you're MC's rhyming over a beat and you
want to that's your important, that's your fist through the door.
So what Marley basically did was reversed it to create

(01:19:43):
the bridge, which is h and a little bit of
echo to reverse an echo. So what is on your
mind at this point? Because this is extremely unorthodox, right,
that's that's pre public enemy, I know, you the verse

(01:20:06):
that pre public. What is on your mind when you're
doing this? I mean that must have been you know,
I mean when I made that and and the funny
thing about making that record that wasn't even supposed to
be a record that was interlude music for Queensbridge Day?
Wait what that song was interlude music for Queensbridge Day?

(01:20:29):
So because there was you know, there's so many bands
in Queensbridge, Like I mentioned, there was many bands. So
they used to have Queensbridge Day and the band used
to perform. It wasn't even hip hop yet, So what
bands are performing at Queensbridge? Like I said, Fred Fowl
and all the residents used to come out because it
was band heavy. Dale Payne used to have his artists
out there. Andre Booth used to get busy. He used

(01:20:53):
to have his artists. You know everybody. You know, they
had Cinnamon used to come out there with dal Payne
thanks to you. So they was a lot, you know.
So we was just I said, yo, Shan, let's make
a song for intermission, music for tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told
you a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records.
I didn't get into this some of the great hip
hop stories. It's just like, let me throw something together
right right right, change someone's life real quick. Sometimes you
don't try, You just do what in your heart and
it just happens. I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying
to become what what happened to this day. I was

(01:21:34):
just I just wanted something hot for me to battle
it on the radio and just come with some heat
every week. I had to. I had to come with
heat because you know, everybody was going against us. I
had to create my own crew, my own ammunition. And
it worked. So when the final products done, like, what
are people looking at? Because we didn't know I'm going

(01:21:57):
to ask a teenager and I was very much aware
of the song when it came out when I was fifteen.
We were just like I thought. I was like, is
that a fire truck? Like, what the hell is that noise?
Like we could not, for the life of us figure
out what it was or what you all were trying
to convey, right, But it's just I just I was
conveying mass hysteria, madness because when you know, I already

(01:22:18):
knew that in piece to President kicking sneer was already
head bopping material and if you put some some fire
behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that
it's it's like a it's like an undeniable And we
played this song about about four times that time in
the park. Everybody was loving it, and you know, unfortunately
somebody got killed that night at a peace rally. Oh

(01:22:42):
the first day we played that in the park. Later
on somebody got killed, damn. So it was it's kind
of weird. The Queensbridge I know of where mob deepest
rhyming about like yo, I might not make it tomorrow.
Where does that come into play? Is this eighty seven
to eighty is I mean crack Queen's Bridge. I think

(01:23:02):
by the time that really started happening, the crack ever
started really getting higher and higher. I think that's probably
at the point when I moved out the hood because
it was getting out of control. Really, I mean it
was like night of the Living base heads on the
block type, you know, people walking through the lights is
out on the block, and it turned into a different
place at night, you know. And I was like, you know,

(01:23:24):
that's when I decided to move to a story like
how did you mc shan hook up? One day I
met Shann. I was in the river park. I believe
I was probably writing rhymes. I was probably sitting in
the park writing rhymes and I saw him riding his
mini bike, and you know, he told me that he

(01:23:45):
could rap, and I was like, Oh, that's what's up.
That's cool. He told me, I gotta rhyme about you.
I gotta rap about you. I'm like, all right, cool,
he said. I said, well, just you know, bring about
my house. One day, about a week later, he came
by my house with it written on a bag and
it was mall, he'scratched the full Master us when he's
the dad that's on a right that was actually on
the air records. So I mean of your arsenal, I mean,

(01:24:08):
where does Shan rink? As far as the mcs that
you've worked with Shan He he ranks, he got, he
got his number one status and a few things with me.
He has a certain tone. His voice is like an instrument,
you know what I'm saying. Certain people they could rhyme
and talk and singers too, Some people could sing, but

(01:24:29):
some people's voices are an instrument. And his voice is
an instrument. Like the tone of it. Yeah, it's like
an instrument. It's like a horn. It's like it's like
a it's like an instrument. So I give him that.
He's really though. And his rhymes, you know, you gotta
think he made Jane back in the day.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Jane.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
My mom loves that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
my mom actually loves Jane stops Jane and my dad
see it is positive. They're talking about not doing cracks.
And he had the song about Cocaine. It was that
love story, right, how he fell in love with this
girl and at the end of the story it was
her name was Cocaine. Oh, so you know he was

(01:25:09):
kind of visualizing those those little rhymes kind of like
were were you doing live shows with him as well? Yeah?
I was. I was just DJ for me. So what
was his what was his what was the crowd responsible?
Like he had him he was he was he was
like he was getting the ladies. He had like left
me lonely out too. So yeah, he had his run.
He had just definitely had a hard run with the chicks. Chicks.
Chicks used to like she before I bring up Kane

(01:25:29):
which is more eighty eight, I gotta know about your
your your your your brief time with with with rock Kemp,
which mm hmm. I've seen a few shan things where
he's like why did it whatever? Like what is what
is the story of Eric Breeze President and well Eric

(01:25:53):
b eric Bee was like a roommate to me and Queens.
But he used to come, you know, come stay at
the crib. He's from Queens, you know, he's actually from Corona.
Queen's all East Elmhurst, one of them. But it's the same,
you know, same kind of thing. But he used to
hang out with him. Pol Or Pole introduced me to him,
and you know he started hanging out with me then,
you know, starting not going home, really hanging out showing

(01:26:15):
at the crib. You know, he used to see a
lot of people come through then you know, when he's
like yo, I got a rap up, you know, I
want to bring a wrap up, you know, and he,
you know, the first day, he said somebody was gonna come.
I believe it was Freddie Fox. He didn't show up,
so he could have been Freddie Fox. Wait, Freddy Fox
should have been over that beat. Whoever would have showed

(01:26:35):
up probably would have got it because we you know,
we just had you know, he was just ready for
a session, So who knows what we would have made.
You get what I'm saying. So obviously he didn't show up,
So he said, I got somebody coming to the next day,
which was Ra. So Ro came and we made my
melody first. Now you had to think about it. I
was just just getting in the studio with Caine just

(01:26:56):
you know, Kin was just writing for Biz, so I
was I was kind of like secretly making Kine album
on the low, okay, because the record company acts like
he wasn't an artist, and I already knew it that
he that he was dope, so I would just record
him when when when bears would be late kind of thing. Right,
So he's getting an album together, So I'm working with Kine,
now rock him Kane and now rock Kim wanted to

(01:27:19):
do my melody now. Now I was already rhyming, you know,
fucking with g rapping Kine. Well, they was like one, yeah,
right right now he wanted. Now he came with my melody,
which was like it was like so different at my
house from what we was doing. It was mad slow.
It was like it was a head bober. It was dope,
but it was like a head bobber. Listen to record,

(01:27:41):
and you know before he had came, you know, just
the sessions before was like all energetic. So I was like, yo,
sham man recording man, real quick, Wow, record the vocals, man,
i'mna go over here, real I'm running, you know, back
and go program something else, go tap out something else.
Just record his vocals. I wan't see all come out.
You get what I'm saying. Shan was a he would

(01:28:02):
hang around the studio and learn and see what we
was doing and learn learn how you know, learn, Oh wow,
this is how you do the vocals. Oh this is
how you do this. So he was he was learning.
He was he was an artist, but he was more
of apprentice learner. He wanted to learn how to make
make the music too. So I was like I was
set it up. I set it up when he went

(01:28:23):
over there and went to the board and punched it up,
and okay, all right, I'm going to equ you and
eq and no. I just left it ready for him,
and yo, just record him. I'll be right back. You
get what I'm saying. I taught him out of punching,
you know, I was teaching shann how to do all.
So I was like, all right, let me see if
you nice record him. I'll be right back. So I
went in the other room probably tapped out another beat
while he was doing the vocals to my melody. By

(01:28:45):
the time I came back out, I was like came
out and like I was like, damn, I like this,
but it doesn't have the energy of what I've been
doing where I'm at, you know what I'm saying. It
was it was dope, but it was like when everything
else I was doing with that, it was like out
of here. My melody was the perfect song to do

(01:29:06):
the wap right right right right right, because like that
came out right. I just remember, right, this is my
melody by rock him Eric being rock him. It's slow,
It's like what eighty what's the yah for?

Speaker 7 (01:29:24):
The year.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
It went with the year the base check out my
melody hands out of a beat of yours. That beat

(01:29:50):
right there was probably just on the spot makeup. And
then I believe that Eric Bee probably liked that Doom Doom, Doom, Doom,
Doom doom the baseline, but when you hear it changed.
Since I only had a Casiot Season one O one
and I was able to just have one MIDI program running,

(01:30:13):
I was just changing the sound with the MIDI still playing,
so it's going doom doom doom, and then the bell.
Then you had the other sounds. I'm just changing the
patches playing the keyboards. That was me. That was me. Yeah, yeah, yah,
I start. Yeah, I started playing keyboards back then, but
then I got bored with it and I kind of stopped.

(01:30:34):
I don't know why I ever stopped, but after you know,
around everybody's president. I played those base that baseline and
that one, so I was learning a little about the keyboards,
but for some reason I stopped. I don't know, I
just stopped. But in your mind, you're not thinking like
this is this is a new revolution right here. No,
I just thinking that we finished the session and I'm

(01:30:55):
gonna move on to the next one, because I got
beats to make. So how long before Eric Being's President
gets me? Well, we made that, and I gave him
a copy of what we did in the studio that day.
And the next week I heard all over the radio, Wait,

(01:31:16):
what's the time between my melody and Eric Beings President?
How many days? It was? About the following week I
heard on the radio. Well I heard, I heard, I
started hearing it on the radio. And still then you
didn't think like, no, I knew, I knew, I knew,
I knew. I believe me. When I made Eric's President
Duke's I already knew that that was gonna be this,

(01:31:37):
That was gonna be it, because that was more of
where I was at. You notice, I was at make
the music with your mouth, biz, the bridge and all
of that. And even then I think ninety seven btpms
was a little slow for you because by that point
all your choices were like but one twelve super fast,
I know, But the you make the music and then
nobody beat the biz was over there, right, you give

(01:31:58):
what I'm saying. Those was real good hits for me.
So I was like, yo, I want to be over there.
That's why I was trying to go, and that's why
I want to bring Raw. I want to bring him there.
I want to bring him right right right to where
I was at with super fast and not not too fast,
but you know where people can understand you and and dance.
You get what I'm saying. I will say that because

(01:32:19):
by this point, I'll say that between you and the
Bomb Squad, both of you guys pretty much revolutionizing and
leading the pack of the new wave of hip hop,
which is like just this sonic assault matching the time
period I was like your your version of the the

(01:32:45):
panic sound was definitely more I mean, it was more
danceable and dance like. You could still play Raw to
this day. You can still play Poison to this day,
whereas I mean, you know, just the the engineering of
some of the stuff on Nation of Millions is so
dense that it doesn't doesn't cut through, like how many

(01:33:08):
how many how long is it taking you to mix
the stuff? And no, you know a lot of that
stuff was made in mastering. I had very good guys
master and I her powers. I'm coughing bats. Back in
the day, I heard I had her powers, dude, so
I would come he would hate yo. Let me tell you,
he would hate to see me coming bro right, because

(01:33:29):
you know I'm coming with some ship from the living room.
Oh here come Mollie. I gotta fix this ship. But
by the time I left, mastering them fucking yo them
ships was like coom colmom. He really fixed a lot
of my song. My song was made on on four
tracks in the crib without dB X. Are you mcs
using pop stoppers? Just straight up like what type of mic?

(01:33:53):
I had a sure mic without the without the bubble,
without Wow. That's why, Mike, that's why my melody sounds
so screechy in his voice, Roxanne sound so screechy some
sham records and king because I had to fucked up
Mike Tarik refuses. Tarik will do eighty of his vocals

(01:34:15):
on like a sure fifty eight, Yeah, hoping to get that.
That just rhyming with the distortion. Yeah, you gotta take
the top off that ball. There was there was rhyming
with the ball off. I didn't even have a ball
were so broke. Do you still have that? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
I do.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
I still got that, Mike. I can still got that.
If you If I'd have known he was going to
talk about that A brought out. That's more. I always
be bringing it with me.

Speaker 7 (01:34:43):
Have one got to they got any of your stuff
in the new Smithsonian and DC, I feel like maybe
they need to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
Yeah, maybe after this it could happen. Oh, it's trust me. Actually,
I think shout out to Timothy at the Smithsonian. I
think she's a Yeah, I'm meet with her. Give her
more artifacts there. That's a cool thing about the Smithsonian
For a pack rack like me. I could just give
her the stuff and she is the hip hop Yeah,

(01:35:11):
absolutely make the connection. How does Caine enter the well
the picture? Let me let me finish with the Eric
Bees President because the beat from Eric B's President came
from a song that I made called Stun of the

(01:35:32):
Block by Tragedy. I'm gonna send you it. We're gonna
put it on this but it came from a song
called Stun of the Block and you know the funky
cuts because DJ hot Day used to be Tragedy's DJ.
So I made a song called Stun of the Block
right after super Kids. The Tragedy Won't Happen to Me
made that and then the follow up song was a

(01:35:54):
song called Stun of the Block. Now Stun of the
Block had Eric Be's President kicks in there at the pattern.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
All of that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
But when I did everybody's president since I couldn't make
Stun of the Block a record because they couldn't they
was too young to talk about stunts stunts on the block?
How old Strategedy? He probably was about probably about twelve
when he made Stunt of the Block of twelve or thirteen,
very very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which, I
don't want I don't want to miss it. Craig g Yeah,

(01:36:29):
did you produce Veronica like all the stuff that he
did for pop Art? Right, A lot of stuff he
did for pop Art? I did produce a lot of
it in the earlier stuff. Yeah, oh god, okay, okay, yeah.
So so what basically happened. I took the drums from
Stunt of the Block to turn everything down, just kept
the drums, then put over like a fat rat baseline

(01:36:52):
over it. So I already had that drum pattern already
for another record. I sent I'm gonna send you all
that for this so wow, and then and then you
could hear it. You can hear it. It's the same drums,
same everything, but it's different. Music, but I couldn't. I
had to erase all of that ship. I don't even
have stunt in the block more. But I got the mixes,
but I had to erase everything on the master you

(01:37:13):
need to make a dub I got. I got the copies,
mixes and instrumental and all that, but I don't have
the master because the beat was so hot. It's Erb's president.
If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have
the foundation of Eric Being's president. Okay, I guess that's
so sorthy. Second in my mind at the funeral for
stunting the block, like you never made it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:35):
Right, right right?

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
I got the mixes though, I got you know, all
types of mixes from it, but I don't have the
actual multi track. But I got so by this point,
is the SB twelve now your instrument of choice?

Speaker 3 (01:37:48):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
You're still no. Let this be a note that that
all the great hip hop producers still hold true their
their weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean I still have
a few of them. So you say Ninth is still
using fruity loops, he I think he is. I mean,

(01:38:10):
at one point in time he was heavy on on
machine right, So I think he's using machine now. But
I want to say back in like twenty it's like
maybe twenty twelve thirteen, he sent me like a whole batch.
She was like, yo, new fruity joints, all fruity loop beats.
He went back to it. So yeah, he's still He's
still on it. And you know what me, I moved

(01:38:30):
I moved on. I mean, I could still use the
old stuff, but I have my twelve hundreds, but I
do use my my renaissance and going to the twelve
hundred mold because it feels kind of like a twelve hundred,
does it though? I mean the sound, not the feel.
The sound a little ashy okay renaissance, but it doesn't
it didn't do it like this doesn't feel the same.

(01:38:51):
I still, I mean, I've learned on machine, but I'm
still like I'm still grabbing the my weapon of choices
in the two thousand. I do have a twelve hundred,
big o DC. You got the two thousand. I use
logic in reasons right now, I'm a logic guy or reasons.
So you're not afraid of technology, No, I move with it.
I'm not getting left behind at all, because if I

(01:39:11):
would have been the person to get left behind. I
probably would have been sampling. You get what I'm saying.
I probably would have never sampled that first thing and
used it for what it was at that point. I'm
always the one to grab technology and and use it
for what I need it for. You're going to make
it for what you're making it for, but I'm going
to use it for what I need it for. I see.

(01:39:32):
So in eighty eight, is I mean, are you overwhelmed
at this point because you're making the Going Off record,
You're making Cane's record, You're making Chante's stuff. Yeah, cool
g raps about the end of the photo and how
and how long were you spending on these records? Just
real quick, like how long would it take to make
Going Off? We're making a record? Like we're making two

(01:39:53):
records a day type type thing was like it was
like an assembly line. We're making two records a day.
Who's next, what's tomorrow? Sessions after session? Every day is
a session? Is it still in your kitchen? This way?
After I moved to a story, it became like an
assembly line. That's when I met Kan So talk about King. Now,

(01:40:13):
King comes to my door business late one day he
comes to my door. Yeah, I'm thinking. I'm thinking he's
trying to stick me up because now I lived in
the story. Finally, I was like, what do you want
to get paranoid?

Speaker 4 (01:40:26):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Now I go downstairs. It's a dude. Some dogs can
do it at the door, Like, yo, I don't even
know this dude. I don't know why I even buzzed
him in my building. He got to the door. I'm like, there,
I don't even know this dude. I left buzz him
in the building. At the door, I'm like, yo, ship,
he's like upstairs, so it's only one of him. It's
only me and him. So I'm like, yo, it's not
two of them. So it's it's gonna have to be

(01:40:48):
me and dukes. You get what I'm saying. So so anyway,
like you know, I opened my door like I have
a little halfway and ships. Jo what up? Like, yo,
I'm here to meet Bizz. Oh yeah, I'm like, so
I write business rhymes. I say, oh you do, so

(01:41:09):
tell me a rhyme that you wrote for biz And
he said some ship that never came out yet. Okay.
I was like, oh, this is nig official, because how
are you gonna know that. I said, all right, come in,
So I let him in the ship and we're sitting there.
We're sitting there talking and ship. We're sitting there. You know,
he's telling me that, you know, rhyme a little. You know,

(01:41:30):
I never heard myself on the on the mic on
the on the so and so you know, I'm like,
oh whatever. So you know, we're sitting there. Biz kind
of late, so you know, I said, fuck, let me throwing, throwing,
fucking I'll take you there beat you had it made already. Yeah,
matter of fact, he said, let's run. I like to

(01:41:50):
rhyme off I take you that. So I chopped it
up real quick and put it there. Then then the
ship had Big Dady, you know that ship. And I
caught that and started like, He's like, oh, so that's
gonna be kind of bond that I made that. He
rhymed off that, and that was kind of like his
first little demo before BIZ got there, did or was
he He wass already big Daddy, But when he rhymed

(01:42:12):
ing that, I knew. I was like, Yo, this nigga
is way different from everybody I'm fucking with here. This
nigga is the ship this niggas he's the real ship
because the diction was righty at the voice, and I
was like, yo, nigga kind of dice and and I
went back to the record, coming Yo, Biz right is
the ship? Yo? Biz writing new artists? They told me

(01:42:35):
so well, and so on the low, I would just record,
you know, I would just record more with him every
time he would come. I'm recording a little more with him,
get more, ammo. And then after a while I was like, yo,
we had his album done, ship, but I kind of
I kind of did his his earlier recordings around bisbeeing
late Sony's lateness to Thank's career. Well, you know, especially

(01:43:06):
the first record, because that's how we first bonded off,
the first you know, the first little thing and at
that time in hip hop, because you know, you just
say so freely, like, well, Kane was business writer. Was
there any kind of stigma in terms of being a
m C that had a writer? You know that The
funny thing nobody with Biz, I mean nobody never won

(01:43:28):
at him for they probably didn't even know that he
didn't write the Vapors first, you know what I'm saying.
They didn't know Caine wrote the vapors for him. You know,
Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme, it was like
a fun, happy rhyme, but any rhyme that made a
lot of sense.

Speaker 6 (01:43:45):
He wrote the toilet.

Speaker 4 (01:43:49):
Most likely.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
You know, has Biz always spelled his name in every
rhyme he's ever spent to be that that was the
selling point too. He understood marketing very early. I feel
you're there in the last hour of this very special
Court Lovel Supreme interview with the legendary Marley Maaul, who

(01:44:14):
just told us about working with some of the best
c's of the eighties and not even dating it. I
think of all time period of all time, Yes, definitely
of all time. So Kin and g Rap in the
same crew, because that version of Raw that I heard
where they just why didn't that come come? What? Yeah, like,

(01:44:37):
well why did I even make the B side of
the real version? Your man g Rat rhymed all the
way to the end. He killed it, you know, he
was like g Rap, I mean it was that was
a real battle. That was it was really going on
that that was like really because at that point Kane

(01:44:59):
was getting so famous in the crew and g Rap
been here already, so he was like trying to hold
he was around before k Right, he was around before Kaneka. Yeah,
he was around before Kane. So you know, the the
new cat against the the you know, the the street rapper,
you give what I'm saying. G rap was always that
the hard rapper with with with Polo. Now they get

(01:45:24):
to clash on the record going off on a on
a crazy beat. Oh man, that ship was crazy when
they killed that raw ship. So even then, did you
feel like there's some historical shit? Yeah? I knew right
there because it was like the it was my Titans
right there going at it. It was clash of the Titans.
It was clash of the Titans for us. Yeah, it

(01:45:45):
was crazy. So this leads to the story. Well I
have two stories of the symphony. Okay, One why was
Shan not on the symphony? Mm hmm too? Why was
Kane obviously not my first person? Well, basically, you know

(01:46:13):
we made that record when we left the photo shoot
on the back when we all standing and from this
plane was that we rented that It was a prop.
There was a prop. Everything was a problem. You started
many unreachable, right of course. I just thought like, oh,
that's what we gotta do we gotta make it one
day when we yeah, no doubt, you know, I was

(01:46:35):
I was told that. The first Instagram front of He's like, yo,
you know, he was like, yeah, we get in front
of a plane. We looked like we're doing it. We
looked like we, you know, we're really doing it. So
we got in front of that. You know, we got
in front of that plane and people thought we was
really doing it. And yes, we thought you were doing it.

(01:46:56):
And then guess what happened? Then we started really doing it.
It's like sometime you you know, you speaking into existence
like that, and we kind of did. And next thing,
you know, I mean, that wasn't my first time being
there private joint. I was already experienced the experience in
the Chante Area era, you know what I mean. So,
but we stood in front of those and looked like
we just came from off tour. It looked like we're

(01:47:17):
so busy. And wow, after that, after that, those pictures
came out and everybody saw that we really started getting
that busy. They came right in. Well that that inspired
and and for shar not being on the record, he
you know, he just he didn't you know, he didn't
show up. He's supposed to come. He said, I'll meet

(01:47:37):
you o there and he just didn't come. And you know,
I put does he regret it? I don't know. You
may have to ask him when you get him here.
You not. Once it was just like damn, I wanted
to be on that, Like I would have been salty,
you know. But that was a big record because look
what would have did for imagine if that was in
dudes Arsenal, it could have been you know, maybe a

(01:47:58):
little different situation, a different turnout. It could have been
a little different. I mean not to say anything you
know bad would do, but you know he could have
had that in his arson or like yo chefing what
you know what I'm saying. And that means a lot
because master it's considered the greatest, one of the greatest
poets there you go, So that that's that the first

(01:48:18):
I mean, he had the crash crew and all those guys,
but this is like a posse of guys that wasn't
a crew, right, there's a posse of guys that you know,
we we and Juice crew, but we could hold our own.
Anybody could hold their own kind of I can make
my own record and still stand. But you know master
asty very well from being the first person on that record,

(01:48:39):
you know, And I put him there as a filler,
trying to put him there just in case he wasn't
even supposed to really stay there. Get you get what
you're holding out for for whoever was supposed to show

(01:48:59):
you mind? Who did you think was gonna was it raw?
Like do you think rock Ken would have held his
own on the on this video that that was too
slow for him? He would have been dope because he
rock He rock be his president, so he would have
killed that symphony. I think, to be honest, I would
have always liked to hear I think Chante. If Chante

(01:49:23):
was on a symphony, Boddy we she you know, I
always I wanted her to be on it. But I
had a record with her already on my album, so
I you know, I had a record bracket. Yeah, what
was up with the war between or the back of
I mean, they didn't necessarily respond, but like what was

(01:49:44):
her feeling at that time? Was it like all these
females are blowing up with these pop hits, and you
know when it's my turn? Because by that point, Salt
and Pepper was kicking in I know that whack. It
was probably aimed at even them or J J Fat whatever,
but even I guess she even addressed it on H

(01:50:09):
Bad Sister, the first cut on the solo record that
she did. I believe she was her feeling at that time,
was it like when's it going to be my turn?
Or she just wasn't a fan of of you know,
because she was kind of hardcore rap and going at
people in the crowd, and you know, she just wasn't
with that pop thing yet. I mean it's before pop
was proven, you know what I mean. Okay, so you

(01:50:31):
know she probably didn't appreciate being, you know, rapping and
going hard and then they come in with it sounded
like a son and they didn't even try to make
and it went really well. It's like it just got lucky,
you know, not lucky, but you know it just went well.
Sometimes you don't put effort into something. You just rock
out and say what you feel and put it in
the atmosphere and it could work out. But there's some

(01:50:54):
people that go in the studio and bus day ass
and it don't become anything. So you know, maybe she
just felt that, yo, I'm putting in work and all
they gotta do is that and pop and that. You know,
but certain things are for certain people, you know what
I mean. One thing about Kane though, uh, I noticed

(01:51:14):
that he was sort of the neutral member of the
Jews Crew, whereas even Chris would shot him out on
BDP records. But I mean, what was his position on
being a Jewe crew member? Like, was it like, yo,
why are you cool?

Speaker 7 (01:51:35):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
Was it? To be honest, they always had a special
friendship Okay, Karas one and and and and Kane. I
believe that Karas One and Miss Melody moved Kine out
of his place in Brooklyn when he first got his
condo for his first album. You ge know what I'm saying.
So they always had a special a friendship way before

(01:51:57):
friendship with Okay. So, so was that weird or awkward
like I'm in the Juice Crew now? Well, I guess
that's something they had to deal with. I mean, because
Keros didn't mention him on any records. Right, And by
this point is mister Magic even a factor in eighty

(01:52:18):
seven eighty eight at that point, mister Magic, I would
say by the eighty by the early nineties, he probably
he wasn't much of a factor with everybody. Anybody was
their own person. Then I wasn't on the radio with
him anymore. I was doing starting to do in Control

(01:52:38):
because I had an In Control album out. Put it
out in what eighty nine?

Speaker 8 (01:52:42):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
Eighty eighty eight, I got the budget in eighty seven,
bought a house. You get what I'm saying. So at
any point during this period, is this a no pun
intended a water under the bridge moment? Like have you
ever not run into BDP in those years and been
like all right, let's talk, and you know what the

(01:53:04):
funny thing? I took it serious. I wasn't fucking with them, dudes. Okay,
you ain't see me on no commercials, no Sprike commercials.
I was not fucking with them, bro, really because everybody
they were trying to take your livelihood, right, I'm like, dude,
you know I ain't improved how y'all came so fuck y'all.
So I never did nothing with them. Nothing. I mean,

(01:53:25):
I wanted to be in a Sprike commercial. So even
when the shan did the Spike commercial wanted me in there,
I said, no, I ain't fucking with it. I'm not
fucking with y'all. They may used to be though they
could do all that, but you didn't see my face
in there. You ain't seen me, fucking So took a
long time for y'all to finally have that conversation. And yeah,
we finally, you know, because I never I never really

(01:53:45):
understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude,
I'm always thought in my mind, why why why why
he was mad at us? Dude? We the motherfucking Juice Coupe.
We out here saving hip hop. Yeah, we all here
saving hip hop, dude, and you got something to say.
So I never understood why he was mad until one
day I read his bio and in his bio he

(01:54:05):
said it all happened with a chance meeting with mister Magic,
and he described what happened, and I remembered that day.
I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers. Then it all
came to me, Oh, they was mad because that's the niggas,
that magic shit. He dissed them and slammed the door
and left me in there with them out. So on

(01:54:27):
your mind when you're hearing the bridges over, it's coming
from someone totally random that had nothing.

Speaker 9 (01:54:31):
To do with right.

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
I didn't. I didn't understand where it was coming from.
And and I guess what. And I didn't even explore why.
I didn't give a fuck. So I just like, yeah,
fuck it, let me just walk away for a minute.
I never really realized until I read his bio in
the nineties. I was like hot in ninety seven and
Tracy's office Tracy Chlordy's office. One day and I was
going through bios. I saw PDPs off bdp's bio. I

(01:54:53):
was like, oh, this looks interesting, see what they say
about let me read this right, and I'm going through it.
It all happened one day mister Magic got power Play
Studio and he dissed us. I said, this ship never happened.
Then I said, oh, motherfuckers. And this was like this
had to be ten years later, y'ah.

Speaker 7 (01:55:13):
Wow, So how long did it take then for you
to when you see him again at some point? Now
that yeah, after I found out after.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
One day, it was like, yo, meet the way me
and Chris met each other. I don't know where it
was at wasn't it was in a revolving door in
the building, dudes, I swear to god, dukes. I was
on one side of revolving though he was on the
other I looked at him. He looked at that. That
was the first time we ever met each other.

Speaker 7 (01:55:40):
Kid.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
So I came outside and I said, Yo, what up.
He's like, YO, what up? And then we started talking.
I said yo. I was like, Yo, that was y'all.
That power play y'all said y'all. I never knew why
y'all had beef, he said, yo. Then he started explaining
it and I was like why. I was like, Yo,
that was y'all. I was like, Yo, that's that's it
was crazy. It just fucked my head up. The bridges
over was the original stand yep, great analogy. Then so

(01:56:13):
after that we spoke, and then after that we got
pretty cool. And then one day he called me and said, Yo,
yots do album. I didn't really talk to him until
like it had to be like two thousand. Damn. I
wasn't fucking with them at all. I appreciate, at least

(01:56:39):
as a as a fan, that it didn't escalate further.
Whereas you know, that seems to be the ongoing narrative
for anything post ninety five ninety six hip hop, no doubt,
But I mean, was it just that that wasn't even
an option? Or were you careful and where you went?

(01:57:00):
Like I'm not going I mean, I wasn't the one
to go hang out in the Bronx at two in
the morning, you know what I'm saying with that shit
going on. But but I wasn't a fever. I was
in the disco fever with magic a lot and nothing
that nothing ever happened to me. I used to be
there all the time in the Bronx, You get what
I'm saying. So did you not club a lot? But
would you go to very like do you have Latin

(01:57:23):
Quarter stories or or the rooftop or Yeah, I would go.
I would go check it out. I would check it out.
What was your spot in New York too? I used
to like Latin Quarter back in the day. I used
to like Latin Quarter was the ship? Would you go
just to testing? I would go check it out? Union Square?
I used to like Union Square. The last show at
Union Square was me and Shan and then the place

(01:57:44):
got shut down after that, never to open again. Really
turned into so you go to Latin Quarter even though
that was Red's home. Yeah, I would go there, you know,
just stop over there and see what's going on? Because
he wasn't playing at night. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
He would be like maybe on Saturday night he would
be there. Yeah. So for you, what's the typical night
at Latin Quarter like which I would go through see

(01:58:05):
the ball busters move out their way. It was like
a cruel people like that. You gotta think about. That's
the time of the when everybody was wild and in
New York, say, it's like fifty people will walk around
and just terrorize the block and you weren't noyed at all.
I would step back. I would always step back, and
you know a lot of people would know who I am, like, Yo,
what I mom? And just give me that. I never

(01:58:25):
had problems like that. Never, Never in the streets out here. Never.
I don't be having because I don't. I don't present
that type of energy, you know what I mean. It's like,
you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody.
I'm giving slapping people DAPs, taking my pictures. You know,
people always got loved when they see me. Most people's
producers are doing something and they you know, in mind

(01:58:47):
what I did, Yo, Yo, thank you for so and so.
Thank you for at wherever I go. I never got
to be I don't. I don't be having beef like
that because I don't, you know, it's just not like that.
I don't. I don't carry that type of energy. So
how would you test a record, Like if you had
an example of like a record you had that you
wanted the DJ, like, would you use those clubs to

(01:59:08):
test to see? Oh? Yeah, that would. I'll see what
they're playing, see what's hot, see what they fucking with
seeing you know, see what you know, see what they're playing.
What was your greatest story reaction of like this is
just gonna work? Like, oh, when I used to see that,
already knew public Ending was public Enemy was a go
because anytime Public Enemy music would play in any of
those clubs back in the day, regardless of what Magic said,

(01:59:30):
they ship was popping. But I'm in for your records.
Oh for me, nobody beats the biz. Nobody the biz
was big for me. Something for the radio was extra
big for me. Wow, Yeah, tell me about that record
preps ever find out like, what's that to me? Is
one of the most that that's that's a genius moment

(01:59:50):
in sampling. Yeah, for you one day. Yeah, one day
I was watching the movie and I just saw it.
I was like, Yo, that was dope, and I had
the v back and I just went straight to their
car with the VHS and the prince. Ever did they
even get wise to it? They cleared it from me

(02:00:10):
one days. Label mats. You don't get what I said,
So one day I'll leave it. I'll leave it at that.
Never mind what I'm saying. Hold up, I'm saying that
they used it, and they used it in something and
cleared it back from me. Didn't know where it came from.

(02:00:32):
That's all I'm saying this a little bit, all right.
They used something for the radio and cleared it with me.
Yeah wait I hmm, okay, I'm gonna play visit someone
with radio and I gotta figure out what he just
dropped in my lat This is benchmarky something for the radio.

(02:00:57):
Sho yo, stop playing around bringing the baby. Okay. So

(02:01:20):
for those who don't know, like, Under the Chair Moon
is one of my favorite b C films of all time.
Boss Bill can the classic follow up The Purple Ring. Yeah,
I think it's a classic. I think it is too.
It is it is, even though you know critics are
it's out of it, you don't like it. I did

(02:01:40):
not like Under the Chair moan. But well, no, no,
let me say this. It is a classic film. It's
a classic but for all the all the wrong reasons.

Speaker 4 (02:01:52):
No, but it is classic.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
It is classic. I actually went to the movies to
see that. Wow. I did too. I cut Church Is Wow. Yes,
and coming after Proper Rain, it was just like, what
the fuck is this? He's expanding expanding, So are you
allowed to tell the meta story of it or no?

(02:02:15):
We'll just leave it at that. Okay. I don't know
if the remix ever came out, but I know one
day I was approached by they team to clear that
for a remix that they were doing, and they used
something for the radio that is the most mind blowing
awesome hisst story. Well, it's kind of like the J
Swift remix of Let It Go, Let It Go resamples

(02:02:36):
Dorothy Parker. Yeah, but does he cleared himself? He has
to clear it? I don't know, Like, does Prince have
to clear a print sample on his own record? That's
I mean, probably through that publishing if it's a different publisher.
Because I got a lot of titles and a different
different administrators for different songs. So if I have a
different administrator for something, I probably would have to clear

(02:02:59):
it with the other side. Wow, So can you measure
not cleaning your own temple?

Speaker 3 (02:03:05):
Right?

Speaker 1 (02:03:05):
Getting sued by yourself? So i'msuing myself so real quick
for for raw yes to get that, to get that
naked drum break, right? Am I assuming that you went
to the UK to pick up the twelve inch of
Bobby Birds, I'm coming to get that because that wasn't

(02:03:27):
in circulation at that point. So you would like, was
this from your your your your traveling to Europe? And like,
what is your digging game like? As far as at
that point I was, I was digging kind of hard
because I was, you know, ahead of everybody and trying
to stay ahead of a body when it came to

(02:03:48):
these kicks and snares I want to have, you know.
But the funny thing is the more I Doug, the
more I realized that in Peace to President was the
ship I could never I couldn't never stop. Yes, it
was hard to find ship that that top that one,
and you know that made the most hits. So you know,
I would go to every country. I would go to.
Of course, I would go raide the record stores and

(02:04:09):
look for certain artists and certain things, you know, certain situations.

Speaker 4 (02:04:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:14):
I used to always do that, but then after a while,
you know, I would. I'm the type of guy like this,
I love them and leave them dukes. I sample him
and and and once I put it down, I could
lose the record. Maybe I don't have it no more.
I sample it, and it could be there once I
got it in digital form, I might lose the wax

(02:04:34):
or whatever. You know what I'm saying. I'm kind of
like that, once I sample it for me, I know,
you know, a lot of a lot of times, like
like those original and Peace to President records that I sample.
I don't know what those forty five is that, dude.
A lot of a lot of my records, Like I
got like a place full of records that I don't
I don't keep up with. Where what is? You know,

(02:04:54):
I don't know this is the section for that. I
don't really do that. I just need somebody to start
start doing that, because there's cats like me and maybe
about fifty other cats there are now just in the present,
you know, preserving history business of you know, I'm certain
that wherever that forty five is and your storage been

(02:05:14):
or whatever like that is, I got it. And but
the bottom beat to the Symphony on drums, that that
was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. I don't even know
what the hell at is. That's a crazy beat. I
was always trying to figure out how you had access

(02:05:35):
to all these rare forty fives that I will be
charged forty dollars, fifty dollars sixty seventy eighty ninety dollars
going to Japan to get you know, there they'll sell
you synthetic substitution forty five for like two hundred bucks.
And I'm like, you have these records. So yeah, he

(02:05:56):
gave he gave me a lot, and he gave me
substitution back in the day too, got that on forty
forty five. All right, so we got time to talk
about Uncleel. Yeah, I always got Yeah, give us the story,
like how I mean, at this point, you have the
world in your hands. You you you came with rock Sand,

(02:06:16):
you came with Shan, you came with Caine, He came
with Master as he came with Kraigg. Then I left
the Juice Crew. That's right, you went to uptown for
a second. That's right. I had left the Juice Crew
because how how it was like at that point, I
got tired of it. I was like, Dukes, man, I
did all this, Yo, I made like four albums this year.

(02:06:37):
I only made two hundred thousand dollars. I was a
staff producer with Cold Chilling, and I was like, yo,
I only made I made four albums that year, and
I was making two hundred thousand dollars a year. And
I'm like, Dukes, I could make one album and get
three fifty four hundred. You get what I'm saying. So
I was like, that was it. After I did those
four albums, I broke out. So that was what. You

(02:06:58):
didn't really do none of this, I'm gonna say you
never did no one sophomore. Let me tell you what
I did. To be honest with Cold Chilling, our doctor
dre them, I just walked away. I was like, y'all
can have this, y'all do this go ahead? Was a
row at that point, I mean, there wasn't. It wasn't nothing,
nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I

(02:07:19):
could make more money over here. So I took that
took Tragedy, Craig g and we went we went our way,
and then I was working with Heavy D. I had
hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was
doing over there. You get what I'm saying. I made
a lot of good records at Cold Chill, and we
had a lot of good a lot of good historical
records Chilling. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you kind of built that.

(02:07:42):
But those are not my most successful records in my catalog.
I get it. But from a from a sentimental standpoint,
we're always going to think, oh, raw, aproach the rich,
all that stuff, you know, But those are not the
ones you know those are those are great records, but
those are out my grossing records that I could live
off of to this day. I feel you understand. So

(02:08:04):
it's a difference. You know, I can't retire off that
ship unless somebody sample it, you know what I mean.
Before before you get into ll right, Okay, you work
with Tragedy when he was twelve, and then when he
changed to Intelligent Hitler, right that that I think that
Intelligent Hitler record is probably one of your most slept

(02:08:25):
on the rest of the president. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because
that's come out party. That was my come out party. Bro,
that was my come out party where I'm away from
cold chilling. I'm doing what the funk I want right
now I got I got this militant black dude that's

(02:08:45):
one of throws fists up and pump the pump the issue.
Let's go black and proud. Rest the president? What when
you made that beat like that? To me was like, yeah,
the President? Yeah, that and and intelligence was due? What
sample was that? What sample is that we remade that?

(02:09:09):
We remade that for game period and didn't That's just
I put it on the shelf. But that was one
of my favorite Marley mal Piano lines. I can't, I can't,
I can't reveal it. Come on, man, I could reveal it.
I can't reveal it, not even in private, not on
the air. But but but you know you, I think

(02:09:35):
that's when I first left, you know, I started working
with Heavy and I went to uptowns. They loved me. Yeah,
I did girls, they loved me. I did overweight lovers
in the house. I worked on what else weight loves
and the house girls they love me. Mister big stuff,
you get what you worked on that too. I was
part of it. So and then the Uptown's kicking it.

(02:09:55):
So so that's when id I left the Juice. I
broke out. I was like, I'm not fucking I'm done.
I did enough that I'm gonna do. You know what
I'm saying. I didn't want to. I don't want to
even you know. I just went over there and started
working with them. So started developing heavy with the Biz
and Caine and and got with Teddy Riley. Yeah. Can't

(02:10:16):
out with Teddy, I know, but I get a job
done with jam Like I like that. That was a
good joint.

Speaker 2 (02:10:23):
He was cool.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
I mean it was. It was good, but it wasn't.
It wasn't and it wasn't what people expected to hear
from him at that point. I know, but I always
considered side to its aid as the deep voice, the
dark gable and more this. You know, I wish you

(02:10:49):
because that that was leading to taste of chocolate. It
was just like, okay, Verry White and Alison Williams. He
left about no wrong with That's what I'm saying. Barry White, Yeah, yeah,
are you doing this to actually wait a minute, know

(02:11:10):
you did the day your mind I did t J Swan.
We didn't talk about we gotta talk about TJ Swan.
We're and who, well, who TJ Swan? Who is the
TJ t J Swan was brought on? Because I see
t J Swan. It's not there's some another artist with
t J Swan that is not the singing t J Swan. Right, Yeah,

(02:11:35):
it was a few. It's like it was a t
J Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming.
Then it was a singing guy. It was. It was
it was somebody that made a record before even he made.
You know, I thought his record was going to come out.
It was. It was supposed he was. He was signed
to Arista a side deal, Davis. Let me tell you something.

(02:11:56):
Let me tell you to be honest. Stop stopping. There
was supposed to be a t J Swan and Whitney.

Speaker 7 (02:12:05):
Do it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:07):
You I'm not lying t J and Whitney. Yo, oh god, you.

Speaker 4 (02:12:22):
Want to know.

Speaker 3 (02:12:24):
Like the.

Speaker 1 (02:12:28):
Let me play? Let me wait, is he still gonna
let me lonely? Lord Jesus christ One is the best
worst singer ever? Wait wait, I gotta find I gotta
let me play. Let me Lone say your speech. She
told me her name gave him nothing And when I stepped,

(02:12:49):
she got a better call.

Speaker 4 (02:12:51):
It took about a month.

Speaker 1 (02:12:52):
She was finally mom.

Speaker 4 (02:12:54):
Everything was going smooth.

Speaker 1 (02:12:55):
We were doing fine.

Speaker 4 (02:12:57):
After a while. It wasn't a thing. We either holding
hands and she was under my wing. She wings, but
in my ear, I'm the one and coolie.

Speaker 1 (02:13:05):
But she framed with another man and left me.

Speaker 3 (02:13:07):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:13:10):
Marvel's Marlin Williams, one of my idols, the reason why
I even have nineteen jobs today, has.

Speaker 7 (02:13:19):
Just sold me.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
That TJ. Swan, the Loneius Jerome Swann was about to
record with Whitney. For to be honest, it was. It
was like a deal that Clive was like, your Clod
was like, yo, I want TJ Swan because because TJ
Swan was on all these all these street songs. We
get what I'm saying, make the music with your mouth, piz.

(02:13:43):
Nobody beats the biz. And I think they wanted some
of that. They wanted some of that. You get what
I'm saying, right, because they started their division in the
eighty eight with Eddie Murphy's brother, Yeah I did. That
was relative.

Speaker 6 (02:14:01):
Right, So you think it was Whitney to put the
knicks on.

Speaker 1 (02:14:04):
It, like no, no, no, no, no, no, it's something
happened with Cold Chilling where he was going to put
put out Swan and then Cole came from somebody at
Cold Chilling and he didn't want to be involved with
going back and forth. So he's like, yo, he's going
to pass on this one. But you know, you know
that's that's basically what it was. We're here with Malle

(02:14:30):
mal Uh talking about the career that could have been
the great t J Swan, So we kind of joke
about how on the show Unsung, like hip hop is
always the villain, like for a lot of these soul
bhoops and then hip hop came and destroyed, you know,

(02:14:50):
their career. But New Jack Swing is slowly coming around
the corner and is sort of edging traditional hip hop
as the new choice or whatever, Like, how are you
adjusting it to it? Because now I'm starting to hear
like at least on live on stage and some of

(02:15:11):
the stuff that the bumpy basslines, that that that fresh
Prince baseline right right right right, So how are you
adjusting to To be honest, I mean I accept the
New Jacks Swing when it came in because I really
admired what Teddy was doing back then, because one thing

(02:15:31):
I could tell you about Teddy, he was the guy
that was taking hip hop sounds and putting it to
R and B and key right, And I was like, Wow,
that's kind of dope, that's like different. So I started
I started doing some remixes like that too, kind of
like you know, I've produced the feel a few songs
with a little bouncy be baseline round Away Girl and

(02:15:53):
one of those little baselines. You get what I'm saying.
So I kind of made a few joins. It's like
that too, because you believe me, I used that that
Yamaha that I was going to ask, what is what
is your keyboard choice? Like what is back then? That
was a Yamaha t Z, a small little module that

(02:16:17):
the base base. Anybody was using that one just before.
I wanted to touch on this before we forgot because
I think like no one ever talks about these guys.
The Flex. Oh yes, the Flex were the guys are
singing on Darren Lighty around the Way Girl. How do
you know this? I was waiting for that album to
come out after and the Flex also had do you

(02:16:38):
know this? Mama lecked you out on Around the Way search.
Now let me read the liner notes, But let me
explain what happened to them after this? Okay who They
became very very big after Around the Way girl. But
you may not know you're about to drop you. I'm
about to drop a bomb. Let me get it ready.

(02:16:59):
They they produced Jehen, they produced Jahen. So all the
backgrounds is one of the guys. Cliff Lighty, he does
all Johann's backgrounds. Could it beat it? Every Jahan background?
Cliff Lighty is doing all right. Chris his brother, his brother,
that's the different set of Lighties. His brother Darren produces

(02:17:22):
in touch due to hight Wow. Yes. And then what
else did they do? They did? They did? Like it
was so many records they did. They did? What else? Oh?
And then Eric from the group became in Black Street.
Oh Eric, Wow. I'm trying to tell you. So all

(02:17:48):
of them, all of them did very very well after
Around Away Girl. That was kind of like an intro
for them. But you know, Cliff did of course. I
walked in the sand Mash one day. There's a lot
of visitings. I walked into sam Ash one day. I
was looking at a keyboard. The salesman was showing me
on the keyboard, say he it does this, it does this,

(02:18:09):
boom boom, it does this. He made a beat right.
FRAME was like, oh, that ship is hot. Give me
two of those, right, I get it home. I can't
do nothing. I go back to the store. Yo, my man,
I can't do none of that. He's like, Yo, it's
so easy.

Speaker 4 (02:18:23):
He did it.

Speaker 1 (02:18:23):
I was like, Yo, hold up, man, how much you
making him?

Speaker 2 (02:18:26):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (02:18:26):
That was Darren Lighty, straight up changing people's lives. How
much you're working. How much you get up here in
sam Mash Because I could double that, y'all. He quit
that day, came up to the house, It hits, and
that was it. We was good and we started and
we started making on the spot and he showed me.

(02:18:49):
He became my programmer. And then into the picture now
ll I was he was. I was doing my radio
show and he's promoting Walking with the Panther And you know,
I knew wasn't the greatest album for him, but I
still was giving them crops. I still giving them problem.

(02:19:09):
Look it came out dropping them and like it was,
it was joint. Jingling was on. I didn't like.

Speaker 2 (02:19:17):
I like, I didn't like.

Speaker 1 (02:19:20):
That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me
remix that joint. When you said running niggas over like
reading that, Trucker said, oh yeah, said okay, and then
Brian vocals that was Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, that was like, bro,
you didn't like that dropping them Nitro? Uh what else?
I like the joint on side to know, like squad

(02:19:47):
had four good joints on that. You didn't like Big
four with your drums. Yes you said four right, like
twenty songs on it. Yeah, it did, you know, Okay,
you know what I and it had your my heart
on it in two different worlds. Now, look here's the thing.

(02:20:10):
Here's the thing, all right, And that wasn't TJ Swan
walking with the panther is sentimental to me. I just
graduated high school. It just came out. I was curious
to figure out if LLLL was going to graduate to
break beat. So the fact that dropping him used the

(02:20:31):
meters joining I was like, okay, he's he's because LL
is always like an indicator for well he jumped to
that next level or not, you know what I mean.
And so I don't know. Maybe it was the fact
that I just graduated high school, which was like it
is I like a lot of shitty music too when

(02:20:52):
I was a teenager. It's okay, yeah, but he was,
but he was definitely promoted. I like the Jingling Baby.
I didn't like that. Like that remix was like.

Speaker 6 (02:21:07):
Am I assuming? I'm just going to ask the one
that I'm used to is the may.

Speaker 1 (02:21:11):
One in the videos? Right, he says, dance to the
remixing glove Yeah, with the walking into Sunshie And so
you remixed it. They gave me a shot. They gave
me a shot to remix that, and you know, we
remixed it and it came out pretty well, did well.
And then we went in the studio kind of on
our own and started making an album without authorready from

(02:21:35):
the station, I mean, from his label. We just started
making come to the crib, let's make some joints. Boom,
We like five in four and six in seven and
then boom boom. Actually, you know, we bring it to
Russell and he heard booming systems and that was it. Boom.
You're like, yo, yo, y'all want to do an album, Yo,
it's done already. Why'd you do two versus a booming system?

(02:21:57):
Because we needed an edited version and we need one
for one was for radio. I mean, the in Vogue
version was the version that I heard that one. Okay,
I heard that first on radio, and then when I
brought the remix, I heard the like they're both on
the on the single, they were on a single. Yeah,
both mixes were on a single, but on the album
it was a different one. See Philly radio just played
the in Vogue version, right, So when I brought the record,

(02:22:20):
I was ready for that and I heard the baseline.
I was like, wait a minute, it's changed. But I
actually liked the Albun version better now, but I always
wanted to know, like, yes, I didn't want it to
be because we came. We made Booming System. It was
straight off of in Vogue. It was straight off of
in Vogue. You just loot it. Yeah, I just looped
it up and let them go. But then we put

(02:22:42):
the record out and but the guys from in Vogue,
the producers, they was like, yeah, we're gonna, so you
go ahead, bro, we're gonna. But was that an infuse trap?
It wasn't take them. But to be honest, that's one
thing I can say about them. Back in them days,
they was like, go ahead, bro, that's a banger. They

(02:23:03):
was like, yo, you got it. I was like really.
They was like they just gave it up. They saw
the vision because they knew right would make their ship
right even more official, right right. So they didn't even
go at me. It's like your go ahead, little brother,
young brother, go ahead, bro. They did me like that,
and that was real good. They're like the only cast
that ever didgil Boy. There's like, go ahead, little brother,

(02:23:25):
do your thing. Man. I was like, whoa, okay, and
we're gonna fuck with you with that. Wow, just just
do this remix for us. Then they hit me with
the oh we want you to remix hold On? Did
you Yeah? I remixed out Yeah, so that's solid. Yeah.
So it was like it was like a trade off.

(02:23:46):
They didn't even bother me. I was like, wow, so
did you feel pressure because at that point I know
that like Ll got booed at the Apollo and you know,
it was a new generation and now his fate was
in your hands. I felt no pressure with them because
I already knew. I knew what I could do for
l I think that everything I've done to cold chilling

(02:24:06):
with cold Chilling with Heavy to up that point got
me ready to get that Grammy with L. You get
what I'm saying. You know, it's kind of like I
was in training. I was in training all my life,
sparring and getting up to the building myself in the
ranks to get with LLL and get that real shot.
You get what I'm saying. Because by the time we
did that, you know, it was great for his career

(02:24:27):
and great for my career.

Speaker 7 (02:24:28):
What is the right to now see LLL be the
ambassador for the Grammys Because here we are, like years later,
and he is the man.

Speaker 6 (02:24:34):
He's basically the spokesperson.

Speaker 1 (02:24:36):
Of course. Believe me, I fox with him all the time.
Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his
ass before he hit that stage, and we always talking
and I'm fucking with him. We laughing like a fuck.
It's my dude. I fox with him, you know what
I'm saying. Before he do most of those shows, he
always get a call for me, and we you know,
I know they tape them early, So I catch him
in the morning and fuck with him, you know what

(02:24:56):
I'm saying, And we'd be laughing our ass off, and
he go over there and I tell him and the
next day I called me yo, Yo, Yeah, this was
so and so I'm proud of you because I'm proud
of that dude, man, real proud of it was the
folklore of his process, real where he like had to
go back to his grandmom's basement and and right and
getting that mood. And yeah, he lived that much. He

(02:25:19):
still had that Queen's residence where I believe he still
they still own that residence there. But when we did,
Mama said, knock you out. He literally came and lived
at my house. He was that serious. But did he
feel like I have something to prove? I'm sure he did. Yeah,
he had a lot to prove after walking with the pant.

(02:25:40):
Did he feel like a man like I still got
to come with it because because it's still yielded hits
like Big Ol'd but was still getting played on. I
forgot that. But he wasn't joined. I think loved. I think,
to be honest, he knew what he wanted, you get him.
He wanted the respect and he knew what he wanted.
He came and told me, He's like, yo, you know,

(02:26:01):
he started telling me the story.

Speaker 8 (02:26:02):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (02:26:02):
When I first heard Kane, I was like, oh my god.
When I first heard someone so I was like, oh
my god. He's like, Yo, how could I do this?
You know, I'm like, yo, come on, you give what
I'm saying. Prep gave him the prep give what I'm saying.
And we went in there and just tore niggas down.
At least give me the story of like making that record.
Did you know it was monumental or was it just like, yeah,
here's another beat. I kind of felt that in a

(02:26:26):
way what it is because Bobcat, you know DJ Bobcat.
You know, he had he had the sample, he had this, Yeah,
he had to kind of he had he had the
he had it sampled up on a disc, and you know,
he was going through sounds and he was playing that
and then I just added a drum to it, kind
of filtered it, flipped it and and you know, we

(02:26:49):
let and then I let my you know, I let
my dude. You know, sometimes what has started happening with
me after awhile I started, I started not want to
record people. Vocals sound familiar. I hate recording. Yes, yeah,
sometimes you know I started after a while, I want
to make the beats, but I can't. I can't stomach

(02:27:09):
sitting here doing the vocals too much so so only
someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so so so I
said that day, I said to my engineer, just record
ll vocals, you know, recorded right, And I stood back
and he was easily wind and then pressed play and
record and but LLL didn't know what was going and

(02:27:30):
he said, come on, man, and then the beat dropped,
and I was like, so that was real. That wasn't
getting annoyed. That was really him screaming at the engineer.
Poor engineers. I was like a hip hop engineer start with,

(02:27:50):
start with all the abuse that engineers have to take
it the rappers and management. I had a question about, uh,
to knock you out milky cereals, not milky cereal, mister
good Ball, the little snippet. Nah no, I'm saying, you
happen to me, happen yo. It's so funny. He's just

(02:28:12):
we just decided to give it out a crazy intro.
He just said that just to bug out. Yeah, yeah,
he's just give it a crazy intro. And Murder Graham
was just yeah, Murder Graham was his little story about.
But I've been like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah,
it's supposed to be live. We kind of made that
up to be live put the crowd in the back.

(02:28:33):
But I think they tried to sue us for using
the name rap Mania. Things coming out everywhere? Really, yeah,
it's coming out of every everywhere. I'm like, come on, really,
do anybody have a copy of rap Mania? Yeah? I
think he tried to sue us. I've been trying to
find that. That's crazy. It was a pay per view
concert where Redman went out of his mind with the

(02:28:55):
on the monitor. Man, I not this was pre this
we read Yeah, this was like ninety You gotta do
some research. Somebody finding rap Mania.

Speaker 4 (02:29:05):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:29:05):
Yeah, okay, I remember because I remember asking my parents
to get it on pay per view and they were
like no. And that's why we put Live at rat
Mania on it because he's trying to act like he
was on rat Mania. Okay, okay, So that cheesy rat
blues was it was. It was his story talking about
how they treated him after walking with the panther. Cheesy

(02:29:27):
rat You ain't all that. It just hit me. He
did to the Break of Dawn as well. Yeah, so
that makes number five like handle the whole way you are?

Speaker 7 (02:29:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:29:41):
Who else was got this? Another? He got hammer and yeah, yeah,
or I know about Iced Tea and Ham, but I
didn't know that Hammer and him had yeah situation, Yeah, yeah,
it was. It was he had beef with Hammer Iced
Tea and he went at all three of them onto

(02:30:02):
the Break of Dawn. Did not know that break And
by the time ninety one, like Mod was kind of
I mean that was it was over much because New
Jack was kind of like going where it was going,
you know what I mean. And and a lot of
these tracks was kind of he was on that New
Jackson hard Yeah, all New Jack track you Rise and
Shine go see the Doctor earlier? Ain't that you know

(02:30:26):
what I'm saying? Okay? But he was always lyrical though,
who do you think in the battle wise we think
of rock mod l what do you think lyrically? Yeah,
did you like Let's Go? I like let's go. I
like let's go. We we did the lant.

Speaker 4 (02:30:48):
Lazy it was.

Speaker 1 (02:30:54):
So much a liter ration. Yeah, no, I like Let's go.
But lyrically I think that was like for me, like
watching the l and MO d Like, I always respect
the mod because he really was the only guy from
like the original like original original, the results. He's the

(02:31:17):
only one that survived you know what I'm saying. So
I always respected him. I just think it was a
time where it was a thing where it was really
like you were saying earlier maw like the old line
versus the new line, and to me like mo d
had lyrics, but llll could take your shirt off and nigga,
it didn't matter no more, you know what I'm saying.
So it was like it was just kind of he

(02:31:37):
was I think he was as a lyricist, mod was dope,
but he was just kind of his time had passed
at that point. I think of the two LL responses,
I mean, to the Break of Dawn was my favorite.
But again I'm a music guy, so no, I'm with you.
I like to the Break because cool. It was like

(02:31:59):
it was like it was either cool al or like
Holland jet so and always like just the cool. How
did you get cool l delivery on that song instead
of his house I had? I told him, And we
can't scream no more. Basically, we can't. We can't be
we can't be angry on records because you gotta take
a different approach. You gotta, you gotta instead of screaming

(02:32:22):
at him, you gotta talk to him, and that's what
we did, kind of like with Jingling. Right, that's when
I told him, I like, yo, we can't. Oh. He
wanted to be super aggressive, right, he wanted to do
his vocals over the other way, kind of like the
first ones. Uncle. I was like, no, no, no, we're
not gonna We're not gonna really do that at this time.
Let's let's let's like, you know, it's actually interesting, you said,

(02:32:44):
because I first heard the biggest change in the L's
voice the first time I heard booming system. It sounded
like a completely I didn't even know it was I
didn't know it was them. It just came on. I
was like, who the fuck is this? And yeah, yeah,
there was a lot of effects on the voice too.

(02:33:04):
So let me ask because there's always the end to
the yang, let's jump three years later, fourteen shots of
the Dome. Okay, no, god no, because it was all
like I remember that being the first review in the

(02:33:29):
source that had consequences to it, and Russell was not
having that and you know, the original mind Squad review
like the first time that their record review could influence
their reader and it causing a response or maybe a

(02:33:54):
retaliation or not for someone in hip hop was that
Walking with the Panther record. So what was different about
the process of fourteen Shots in the Doom? Then Mama
said knock you out because big, big, big difference. It
should have been it's supposed to be the follow up

(02:34:15):
to should have been Victory Last, Right, But guess what.
Guess who started acting around that time. Guess Michael J No, No,
guess who went to go do the Toy in the
middle of my project? Yeah? The Toys was uh Robin
Willis right, right, So that's kind of what happened with

(02:34:35):
that project. In the middle of the project, we in
the zone, was in the zone. Next thing, you know,
we all gotta go wait for nine months to go
do a movie. I'm like, dukes, We're in the middle
of an album.

Speaker 4 (02:34:48):
M mm.

Speaker 1 (02:34:49):
So how long did Mama said knock you out? Take
to record the album? Like two weeks or some ship
and then wait, fourteen shots. It was like real quick,
he just knocked it out. Yeah. We was banging the
down like knock it out. Yeah, we've been banging them
down like nothing. I told you. He came and lived
lived up the crib upstate. So we was making maybe
two records a day, and then fourteen shots was how long?

(02:35:10):
Fourteen shots took about a year and some change to make.
Because fourteen shots took fourteen months, it's too long because
now you know, now you know he's coming like a
week for like a record or two. I'm like, dudes,
we can't, we can't make records like this. Brouh we
We wasn't the same formula, so you feel that the
disrupted rhythm. Yeah, of not bouncing off each other one

(02:35:34):
hundred percent, that's exactly what they God, now you're scaring me.
Stop looking at me like that serious, because he do
wan he started, you know, making movies and then all
of a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much.
We wasn't vibing like that. Every wait, everyone listened. Everyone's
looking at me like, all right, mister nineteen jobs, you

(02:35:54):
better dropped everything this next week hearing this story. But
what it was though, you know, it's like he started
focusing and you know he did good on that movie
and then all of a sudden, you know, that's when
that's when the movie starts. You know, the movie started
coming in and the TV and all of that, and

(02:36:14):
you know, the album didn't really do well like it
should have because we I didn't have no real time
to do it. I ain't have no time. And then
if I made something six months ago, this ship ain't hot.
Now you get what I'm saying. When we when we
made the other album, that ship was so hot off
the press, Yo, the fucking reels were still warm. You

(02:36:34):
get what I'm saying. Did you do Crossroads? I was
involved with it? I was I was involved. I was
involved with Yeah, they made him make that. Wait was
his dad in the picture right now? Or ah.

Speaker 4 (02:36:57):
Offer?

Speaker 1 (02:36:59):
Because like the hollering came back, the screaming, you know
what I say. I'm trying to say, all the screaming
came back well because he probably felt especially after the
heat of doing it on MTV unplug You remember the
years that and he did it at the MTV Awards

(02:37:24):
were like a ninety piece band at the MT Yeah,
hit me twelve times.

Speaker 4 (02:37:33):
Yeah, he was right.

Speaker 1 (02:37:34):
You probably couldn't tell him nothing. He was back, ah man,
She telling me that he had to. If he had
more focus and did it in a concise time period
of maybe a month or so, it would have been
a different I believe if there was no toy movie.
That was a weird.

Speaker 8 (02:37:55):
And then when I saw that was dudes, that was
a weird fucking we did we did this for that.
We blew an album for that.

Speaker 1 (02:38:08):
Ye, because the movie didn't do well, Wait, let's not
totally tank it, because I mean back was a classic
back and Pink Cookies that remix. Though the the movie
yes crazy like they were, Yes, they were, there was

(02:38:30):
there was little there was. There was moments on there,
but it wasn't enough moments was like stand man stand.
So after that, like was the feeling the aftermath of well,
I mean that's when I think the track masters took
over and then probably took all my beat loops and

(02:38:53):
made everybody beats and you know, did what they did.
But no, I mean you still have Lords. You still
oh yeah, Lord? Yeah, I moved on them with Lords.
That's when Lords started popping. Funky child Lords of the
Underground And how did you meet them? Because they're straight,
they're Jersey. Well, I had I had an idea of
a group called Lords of the Underground. I had the name,

(02:39:16):
but I was looking for somebody who would be Lords
of the Underground and I saw them performing. They used
to be a group called New Jersey funk. Oh yeah,
it's a better name, lords under That's what I'm saying.
So so when I saw them performed, I said, oh,
that's the Lords of the Underground. So I was like, look,
I'm looking to do a group called Lords of the Underground,
and would you all like to be him? And they're
like yeah, because they had the energy and everything, and

(02:39:37):
you know, and we made a little history with them.
They did really well.

Speaker 3 (02:39:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:39:42):
Yeah, I mean well Psycho was that when Psycho came out,
that was the ninety three beat, the freestyle over wow
and and Philly Wow. I didn't even know. You know,
the funny thing about putting out these records, Yeah, it's
the funny thing about dropping all of these records. Reasonally,
I don't know how well they do. Like you said,

(02:40:03):
that was an excellent rhyme and beat and the yeah yeah,
that's what every cat in Philly wanted. The freestyle wow,
piece of Philly right right there. That's real talk man. Wow. Yeah,
Like I felt like you were because that was you
really not even graduating, but again updating your sound to

(02:40:28):
modern hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay,
Marley's on a mission. To really like not revenge, but
like to let y'all know, like I'm still in this
mom and.

Speaker 8 (02:40:44):
It is hard.

Speaker 1 (02:40:45):
It's hard for people to last that long and still
remain ahead of the curve with that sort of thing.
So yeah, no doubt. I think with Psycho, I wanted
to take it there. I definitely want to take it
there because I felt there was a new group I
want to come with, like a whole new sound and
a whole new look for it. And you know, Psycho
did what it did, and then you know we had

(02:41:05):
to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and
all that other ship. Yes, he's the k Death. Where
are they now? I'm lords they performing? Does one of
them live in Paris? Oh? Yeah, the DJ lives in Paris,
do it all? You know, he's running Jersey and Funky.
He's in North Carolina. And you know they still to

(02:41:26):
all over the world. They still every summer they going
to those festivals. They rocking. They never stopped yet, that's all.
Like I said, yeah, yeah, they're still going. Just to
make sure, all right, we're about to wrap up the show,
because you know, you probably have a nine hour story.
But I always wanted to know the deal with on

(02:41:48):
the reil with not Nice? Where did that come from? Like,
was that initially supposed to be on Allmatic or yeah,
it was. It was originally supposed to be on it.
And when he was making his album, he you know,
just after he did a few singles and he was
working on his album and Biggie was out, and you know,

(02:42:09):
he had a concern. He came to visit me. I
was surprised. One day Nozzle was at my door up state.
Oh shit, no, I just here. What up? Baby? Were
talking and we talked, say, yo, I'm ready to work
on my thing, you know, making my album. He said, Yo,
he said, you think people still gonna like me? I
was like, this is for the second album. This is
like that album. This is one. He was working on

(02:42:31):
the album because he had the singles out first and
the barbecue, you know, the barbecue was out, so he
was he was hot. But then Biggie came. You get
what I'm saying, And he came like, yo, you think
you think they're gonna still love me? I'm like, dude,
do you the nigga that said fucking you? You know,
he went to Jeff of snuffing Jesus nigga. Nobody's gonna
ever forget that. I said, matter of fact, let me

(02:42:55):
throw let me show you something, let me throw you
on something. So I threw up on the real beat
and his man and everybody and is like, oh shit,
it's aunt adventage though, like, how how long have you
had that on? That was? I had that. I kind
of like held that out for him because I already
knew that nads were murder this ship. Certain beats I
just hold out for certain artists. I could just hear like,

(02:43:15):
I just gotta I gotta beat with action brons, and
you know I had to beat that I know that
would fit action. One day I met him, Yo, I
got something for you. Threw it on him and we
got a joint. But you know, sometimes sometimes I just
hold out a beat for something. I feel that to
go to an artist. So I put him on on
the reel and and he loved it. He did. People
will in verse on it, and his people kept telling him, yo,

(02:43:38):
that's the ship.

Speaker 2 (02:43:39):
That's the ship.

Speaker 1 (02:43:40):
Yo, Yo, God, that's the ship. So time went by,
the album was almost finished. I'm like, I guess he
ain't gonna use this ship. Damn. You get what I'm saying,
So I was like, fuck it. His album came out,
he didn't use it, so I fucked around and put
Cormega on it and Screwball, you get what I'm saying.
So it's like a QB song. So I wasn't trying

(02:44:02):
to put it. I was just making a song just
to you know, just have a tape around the hood
fucking celebration with all. There was never no tape with
Mega Damn and Screwball on it. And then I think
he heard it, and then when he's like, then he
really didn't want to use it. But then when he
did the anniversary ten years later for Ill madd, He's like, Yo,

(02:44:23):
that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me
put it on a ten year anniversary version. So that's
why he went back in, did his vocals back over,
and then used it as his record. But it was
originally supposed to be on the first album, I see.
So that's why he put it on the tenth anniversary
as a bonus because it was supposed to be there.
So all the projects that you've done in your career,

(02:44:44):
and you've never never stopped making music, like you made
the collaboration record with Kris One. Finally and all like,
what is your what is your proudest moment as a creator.
My proudest moment as a creator is watching TV watching
myself win a Grammy when they, you know, they mentioned

(02:45:06):
our song and they mentioned the artists and who produced it.
I saw it on TV. I didn't even go because
I didn't even think we was gonna win what and
you know, and plus because they wasn't they wasn't presenting
our award. Yeah right, so they say, and tonight, so
and so you get what I'm saying. So they put
us in that. And when I heard that, I was like, wow,
I was home. I was like wow. People started calling

(02:45:28):
me yo, you gotta grammy. I was like, oh, ship.
So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's
like it all boiled down to that. Where do you
keep your grammy in the studio? Okay, keep its doorstopping,
yeah yeah, whatever? In the bathroom, toilet paper holder? Greatest

(02:45:50):
place to put your grammy? Man, Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 9 (02:45:52):
Where Bill was in a shelf at my house, in
the toilet, in the toilet, okay, next to some other ship.

Speaker 1 (02:46:05):
Dog. I've learned so much about I'm mind blowing, like
how much I'm still working through the whole sho. Wow.
I'm never using real high hats again, That's I tell you. Man,
I'm just talking because we're so you know, we so
we're just using anything we could, you could how to

(02:46:27):
funk the mic, you know, some stuff that didn't work
as you say this, all right? You remember the group
Switch used to be on motel if you can, if
you can listen to their second album, switch To they
had a single called the Best beat in Town.

Speaker 9 (02:46:45):
Now that I think of it, the high hat on
that was them, the Beatles too. For what's it's some
ship like you can hear them. I have to say, Okay,
I'm not making that up.

Speaker 1 (02:47:03):
That's true. No, No, I'm gonna go home. Listen. Revolvers
gonna beat your ass. So that's fine. Well Marley, Uh well, no,
we gotta do a reflection, Yes, reflections. Where do we start?
Font Tikolo?

Speaker 4 (02:47:22):
Man? What have I learned?

Speaker 1 (02:47:24):
What do we learn today? Man?

Speaker 4 (02:47:25):
Man?

Speaker 1 (02:47:26):
I think I learned, you know, just so much? It
uh really for me, just hearing Marty's story, it just
reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the
path on that I'm on so much of our early records,
you know what I'm saying with little brother, and you know,
they were just done on really primitive equipment, and you know,

(02:47:46):
even to the point that when you know, after you know,
you get some bread or whatever and you can build
your own studio. My studio now is still pretty basic,
you know what I'm saying. It's not a whole lot
of gadgets, and it's still pretty much a small space.
So just hear that all these classic records that I
grew up listening to were essentially made just you know,
in some in his kitchen or at his crib. I mean,

(02:48:07):
that's it just shows to me. I think, just you know,
it ain't really about what you got. It's not about
the gear. It's about the person that's using it, you
know what I mean. And just to hear the story
of how you triggered samples before there was an SP
I mean, I remember trying to work in SP by
my you know when it actually came out and I
was like, what in the hell. So just to even

(02:48:28):
be doing it back then, it's really amazing. But but nah, man,
this is his his career for me is a big
inspiration and you know, this is my first time seeing
Bally since ship oh three. Like future Flavors. Well, we
came up me Pete Rock, uh little brother the Ninth Pool.

(02:48:49):
We all came up there and uh we did it
at his crib, Sugar Steve, what did you learn?

Speaker 7 (02:48:56):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (02:48:56):
Infinite stuff tonight? As an engineer, it's very interesting to
hear the early days of sampling and all the use
what you got, the type of technology that I started
out doing too on a double cassette deck, not a
four track, but.

Speaker 1 (02:49:12):
And then all this stuff about.

Speaker 10 (02:49:15):
About how you were creating those songs that became classics
for just for your for your radio show, and making
that connection between you know, the old school DJs advancing
things into the DJs making their own their own beats,
you know, and you know that's it's a big connection
to make, you know, to understand how hip hop started.

Speaker 1 (02:49:39):
Yes, lessons a bell Boss Bill, it's the high hats Man.
It's the most mind blowing thing because one that's one
of my favorite beats ever and it's mostly because of
those high hats. So just to find out that your
mouth is the source of those high hats, it's kind
of fucked my head. Up, so that Yeah, that's a

(02:50:00):
major takeaway from me. I'm sorry. I wish I had
something more substantial. But that dude that blew he dropped
many bombed to night, blew my mind, unpaid Bill.

Speaker 9 (02:50:09):
The visionaries and icons that come on the show all
come from these places where they people that live around them,
are in the next apartment or whatever, are are integral
parts of their visionary peaty right, which is amazing. And
so like with with Marley, it's like Queen's Bridge and
all the people in the thing, And like with Ray
Parker was Detroit, right and all the people out of Detroit.

(02:50:30):
And both of you did the same thing. Is when
we asked you a question that we didn't know the
answer to, like did you do this? Both of you said,
of course I did. Like where, Like that's the dumbest
fucking question. And I love that man shut up, which
is how I feel on the show just about every day.

Speaker 1 (02:50:53):
It's a lesson for all. No, I'm joking, but yes,
I love that part of it. Thank you.

Speaker 7 (02:50:59):
I knew you were a legend before we had to
sit down. However, I did not know you were a
national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world.
It just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope
that you know, you and the mere continue this conversation
with the Smithsonian because I don't feel like there should
be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, includesis

(02:51:22):
of hip hop.

Speaker 6 (02:51:22):
And you not be there yet.

Speaker 1 (02:51:24):
We need to get that board back.

Speaker 6 (02:51:26):
We don't even need whatever whatever you got.

Speaker 7 (02:51:33):
God, yeah, yeah, that's what I just I just learned it,
like you need to be. It needs to be a
foreword by Marley on every like hip hop blog that
MC's or DJs think that it's their bible.

Speaker 1 (02:51:44):
Like Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had
so much experience in this business and you remembered a
lot of detail, because that's that's kind of one of
the hardest things about a show of this caliber, where

(02:52:07):
you know, details become real shaky, and you know, people
don't remember things, and you know, I feel it's like
really important to document the stories and keep the tradition
and the history going. I'm mind blown by so many things,
but let me, I feel very validated with the it's
all about the guitar pedals. I just did an instagram

(02:52:31):
think about that, right that you're putting the drums. Yes,
I'm and I'm going back to now. You can't tell
me nothing, It's all about guitar, guitar pedals. Well, I
thank you very much for your time, Marley Man, give
it up, Ladies, and Jail.

Speaker 4 (02:52:54):
West.

Speaker 1 (02:52:54):
Love Supreme is production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was
produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
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