Questlove Supreme: Carlos Santana

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What happened
to the role Call? Yo? Yeah right? Okay, latency has
has done us all. Never mind, never mind exactly just
see imagine fallon.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Are we look at for solution?

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes we are, Ladies and gentlemen. Let me let me
attest that twenty twenty one is the Yeah, I'm declaring it.
Twenty twenty one is the year of miracles. And I
wanted this platform, this Quest Love Supreme platform, so that

(00:41):
not you know, not only the people, for myself. I
wanted to receive the holy scrolls of wisdom from the gods.
And let me just say, be careful for what you
ask for, because I will declare today on you know
this recording, that my God is definitely a god of abundance,

(01:03):
as this year is clearly shown, he has delivered to
us today one of the most influential creatives in music,
not a music god, not a veteran, not no, just
absolutely one of the most unique influential creatives and music.
And it's super super super rare that we get to

(01:28):
speak to someone with with with over five decades of
excellence under their belt, no exception. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome to questlof Supreme the one and only Carlos Humberto

(01:49):
Santana Card. Yes, exactly, how are you? I should also
note a case I dig into the comments on on
our various platforms, on YouTube and on I G and
Twitter and whatnot, and I noticed that whenever we have

(02:11):
an axe master or an axe god or just any
other instrumental god that's not drum related, I don't go
that deep into their craft. And I will admit that
I am. I'm not that well versed in asking super
deep questions in terms of guitarists. So that said, this

(02:35):
is a rare Uh. Now we're we're a sixum once again.
We have Laya with us, we have Fontigelow, we have
Sugar Steve unpaid bill, and I decided last minute to
ask my guitarist from the roots. Uh captain, I'm super

(03:00):
cap here. Yeah. I wanted the captain here just so
that I don't leave any stone unturned, because you know,
when we have Pat and Fanny on the show, or
even when we had Jack White Cats asked me like, well,
how come you to ask him about like types of
strings he used or that like sort of the jargon
that I wouldn't know to ask. I wanted to make
sure that you know we we satisfy you nerds. So

(03:22):
that's that's all. So welcome. Also, Captain Kirk to the
to the podcast. Okay, actually, Steve, do you want to
start with your question first? Oh?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Well, I narrowed down my thousand questions to two, but
they don't really belong at the top of the interview.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
But if you want, I got Steve's real first question
was hilarious to me. And no, we're not going to
ask that. I will say that, Oh you me to
do the joke. Let me try it. Let me try it.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
It's only a joke because your your career is so
long and distinguished.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
That no, you don't have to explain it, I say it.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
So what was it like to work with Rob Thomas?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Anyway? So time out for a new record.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
I'm on a new record that joint bang it.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I know I know this, I know we love him.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
We're just it's just Santaich.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
That's that was our first thing. But we start, we
start from the top. And actually normally I ask about
your origins, but I always wanted to know this. The
answer to this question. The first hour of your morning,
what do you do?

Speaker 6 (04:38):
Oh well, it's so joy and honor to be here
with all of you all in the first thing.

Speaker 7 (04:43):
That first thing that I do before my feet touched.

Speaker 6 (04:46):
The ground, I uh, I totally connect ignite gratitude because
I understand completely that everything that I love about John Coltrane,
people that I love, love, you know, with supreme and
impeccable integrity. There's a there's there's grace and graces. It's

(05:11):
like May Angela said, grace is all around us, but
we're the one to have to get in it, you know.
And so for me, you can access and utilize grace,
which with grace you can create miracles and blessings and
do the impossible.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (05:26):
I want to access grace every morning.

Speaker 6 (05:28):
So the first thing that I do, I make my
mind in my heart be one thousand percent with gratitude.
Thank you for my next breath, Thank you for my wife.
You know, I love drummers so much. I'm married, Yes, yes, yes,
you know. But the main again, the main, main thing

(05:51):
for me is those two components, grace and gratitude. With
that you can actually create the impossible, you know, you
can make the ambusiness will tangible, you know. And so
once you understand that what Shamans and people like Jesus
and Shamans, they could create alchemy from wine, from white

(06:12):
to from water to wine.

Speaker 7 (06:14):
Well, the alchemy that we musicians.

Speaker 6 (06:17):
You know, we make people happy because most people are
not happy unless they're miserable. And so we rescue people
from themselves by sound, rest and as vibration, a melody
and a rhythm. It makes people believe that they also
are worthy to receive directly from God, you know, so

(06:37):
we get rid of the wretched sinner stuff. You get
rid of that that you know, unworthy of God's grace.
We get rid of that. You know, when we're playing
music and we invite people to claim your divinity, it's
not arrogant, it's not cynical.

Speaker 7 (06:53):
It's imperative that you.

Speaker 6 (06:55):
Claim your divinity so you can get close to John
Coltrane and and Herbie and the genius genius genius.

Speaker 7 (07:04):
Yeah, because that's what they did.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
I knew that was the answer, and I wanted to
give y'all a preview of what I'm going to be
like in about five years from now.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Right, Yeah, that's goals.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
No, you know what, because especially the period after the
period after the third alt the third record, especially starting
with with like the caravans Hurai the album. I don't know.

(07:44):
For me, I felt the need to ask you that
only because because there's such a spiritual element to those runs,
that run of records between seventy two and seventy eight
that you know, I felt my heart that you know,
you're more closer to to I should have introduced you

(08:06):
as a shaman more than just a musician or or
that sort of thing.

Speaker 8 (08:12):
Because in that gratitude, what does that look like, Carlos, Like,
is that meditation?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Is that just a moment just to sit?

Speaker 6 (08:18):
And what gratitude to me looks like where I live now?
I mean I live in Las Vegas, but I also
live in Kawhi, and gratitude is a rainbow talking to me.
There's so many rainbows in Kawhi, and they're specifically the
ones that are so loud they go.

Speaker 7 (08:42):
That they're hummed.

Speaker 6 (08:43):
This rainbows are so alive, they hum And I was
watching one early early this year, and and like it
tapped me on the shoulder, like turn around, and because
I was turned around, like oh, and it's this, this
rainbow as clear as I can see your face, and
this rainbow goes you see me? And I said, yeah,

(09:05):
I see you. He says, you know who I am?
He says, yeah, you got and he goes, that's right.
And you know what I says, what he says, I'm
looking at you too. That's grace. That's grace, you know,
because all of us need to be validated, you know,
everyone in this planet needs to be validated and celebrated

(09:28):
because God created this in his image, you know. So
I'm very very grateful that you of for be this
platform because the things that I love most in this planet,
besides the connection with a supreme being, is spirituality, sensuality
in African music, that's it, you know, because all three

(09:50):
of them offer me adore to totality and.

Speaker 7 (09:56):
Completeness and infinity.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
You know.

Speaker 7 (09:59):
You know when you play as solo.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
And gravity disappears and time disappears and you go into
this zone the basketball players call it the zone, it's
called grace, called grace. When you get into that grace
and you you know, you don't even remember what you
did after you played it. That's what real musicians got
to turn the other musicians who be posing and captain

(10:22):
and giving and shocking and giving. You know, no, no, no, no, no,
look man, you can do better than that. Go deeper
and access that thing that you're beyond time. When when
every time you listen to a John Coltrane, I Love Supreme.
I play this music and every hotel that I get into,

(10:43):
why to clean whatever happened the night before? Why you know, yeah,
whatever whatever happened, whatever they did, I put I Love
Supreme a lot of some insense that I got from
Alice Coltrane, and that room is mine when I go
Sonic stage, Yeah, wow, purifies John culture and music is

(11:05):
a If they would play this on CNN, the world
would not be so infected with fear and separation.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Dude.

Speaker 7 (11:13):
But but you know, here's.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
The thing, right, yeah, damn not not to totally all
right this This platform was meant to like review someone's history,
but I got to stay here for just a little
bit longer, only because the reason why I was excited
to talk to you is because, like I'm slowly starting

(11:38):
my transformation into what they call doing the work, you know,
like the pandemic forced us to do the work. And
I was like in a really really dark place where
I wasn't enjoying my creativity. I was squandering it. And
it took not working last year for me to actually

(11:59):
you know, like previously, if you if you were to
say this to me in twenty eighteen, I would quickly
be like on group chat with them, like Okay, what
drug is he on?

Speaker 9 (12:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (12:10):
You know, like when people just think like ah, spiritual
people were crazy whatever. But it's like I had I
had a moment where you know, this is I'm just
a year intwo this where everything that you're saying, I
absolutely believe, Like you gotta wake up, you gotta wake
up in gratitude, you gotta meditate in the morning. Things

(12:31):
I used to laugh at. And you know, I tell
people all the time like I'm literally morphing to the
human being. I used to laugh at because for some reason,
I you know, I guess you're when you're most Black
people in America, especially like my generation, like church is
more of like an oppressive religious organizy, Like they never

(12:53):
teach spirituality. And I'm just learning that now, like at
this stage of my life, the second stage in my life,
and you know, it's really good. I'm I'm I'm I'm
happy to get talked, to talk to a musician that
basically uses their their their art for that because you know,

(13:14):
you can clearly hear like I hear the work of
Coltrane and and that spirituality in in your work. And
you know, I always wanted to know, like how how
to clive and especially like Walter Yett in a cough,
how do they receive you? Because normally with with with uh,

(13:37):
you know, other label heads, it's either like hamming my
hits or you know, you get dropped from the label
and you got to go elsewhere and whatnot. And yet
like Columbia sat by you for the for the longest
and so they and they let you find your spirituality.
So I was always curious as to how how you

(13:58):
were allowed to explore those things and not sort of
succumbed to the pressure. I mean, there were occasional disco
moments in seventy eight and whatnot. But you know, like,
was it hard navigating the spirituality that you have and
also you know, remaining a brand name musician in terms

(14:19):
of being a product and being spiritual at the same time, It.

Speaker 6 (14:25):
Wasn't hard at all for me because I didn't used
as I was a child that this is for me
it's a way of life. It's not a profession. It's
not a gig or a job. It's a way of life.
We started with the Beatrolla, the records, the A track,
the says, the CDs. You know, those to me are
like faucets. It is the water. Music is the water,

(14:47):
the living water. So Clyde Davis, Bill Graham and Clyde
Davis when they met me, they realized that I wasn't pedestrian.
I wasn't necessarily a destrian guy. And what do I
mean by that, well, pedestrian guy kind of they settle
for you dangle money and they kind of jump over

(15:10):
like a little poodle, you jump over things. And they
realize that was priceless. Me as committing career suicide. I'm
going to go after John Coltrane, Weather Report, Miles Davis,
and they said, but man, there's over the Miles Davis
and Weather Report.

Speaker 7 (15:29):
Whatever.

Speaker 6 (15:30):
I know, but I need to learn something from them
and teach the youngsters this because I can't just constantly
keep doing or you came by and a bracxis in
or supernatural or whatever you know. By the grace of
God again, I'm able to reach the four corners of
the world, in touch many people's hearts, and you know,
like Tony Williams says, once you sell one record, you're

(15:51):
commercial because you sold one record, you know. So I
don't I don't look at like being commercial like a
negative thing. I look at pretty much life the way
the ones that I love and I adore, like Arthur Ash,
Bruce Lee and Coltrane. People who Bruce Lee be like
water and cloud and cloud and ocean, a lake, baptop.

Speaker 7 (16:15):
You know. So what does that mean.

Speaker 6 (16:17):
It means that you have the capacity to be a
multidimensional spirit that can play anywhere with anyone in complement.
So when I go to Africa, they know who I am.
When I go to Ireland, they know who I am.
When I go to Japan or New Zealand, they know
who I am. And they know who I am because
they play our music in their living room with grandma
and Grandpa and the little kids.

Speaker 7 (16:38):
Man. You know, that's when you enter a whole other
realm of like.

Speaker 6 (16:44):
Wow, I go to Paris and the gentleman who's helping
us with the luggage and whatever, he says, Santana, I
go Hi, he says, and then he points he says,
he points out, Just tell me, he goes. My wife,
Sophia a big partner. Sophia. You know she got pregnant.

(17:04):
My wife got pregnant when we were listening to your album,
you know, like some material, so you.

Speaker 7 (17:10):
Know, and I get that all over the world.

Speaker 6 (17:13):
So it means that your music resident sounds vibration is
able to impregnate not only women, but men to believe
that they can achieve beyond what religious books or institutions
or governments tell them to do. You're, at the most
you are a multi dimensional being. Let me say it

(17:36):
really clearly like this, You cannot behave appropriately unless you
perceive correctly.

Speaker 7 (17:43):
Once you perceive. A more time, you cannot behave appropriately
unless you perceive correctly. Once you perceive. You are a
beam of light that comes from the mind of God.
You carry yourself differently.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Where does all this come from?

Speaker 8 (18:04):
I mean, I know, at some point of Mayor you're
gonna go, well, let's start at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I am so shocking.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I don't even want to start the interview yet, le
Bret Sandtown to keep going. Where does this?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Where did this light come from? What was it a day?

Speaker 8 (18:22):
Was it a moment like or was it a week,
a month, a study?

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Where does it come from?

Speaker 7 (18:29):
Like?

Speaker 2 (18:29):
What was the moment?

Speaker 7 (18:31):
From being thirsty?

Speaker 6 (18:33):
You know, I'm always thirsty for adventure and I'm not
afraid of the unknown or unpredictability. I knew that I
that my first band with the first three albums, we
knew that it was fragmented, and some people want to
do journeys, some people want to do something else and whatever,
And so I started reading the Oranda book and listened

(18:53):
to Coltrane only so so I listened to the Auranda book.
Later on I got introduced to j who text books
and I'll show you what they are, and also and
also a course in miracles. All these books that are
going to introduce you to they have what you call
nowadays spiritual data and how to transform your monkeness and

(19:16):
your donkeiness into an archangel energy knowing knowledge, because you know,
sometimes we act like monkeys and donkeys, you know, which
means you succumb to what people say. Well, you know,
it's human nature. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be corny, cute,

(19:37):
clever and predictable. I could be a human being and
still say I'm going to play a melody that it's
going to make people cry and laugh at the same time.
Why because they are at a molecular level, they remember
that they also have this gift in vie, a gift

(20:01):
before we came out of the womb, imbued to create
blessings and miracles. That's what music is about. The show business,
their entertainment, and then there's music to really elevate, transform,
and illumine the human consciousness of this planets. So we
don't have the stuff that's been having for the last
two years. Fear and separation and superiority and racism. All

(20:24):
that stuff counts.

Speaker 7 (20:25):
For one word, fear. Fear.

Speaker 6 (20:30):
And that's why I play culture in all the time
because as soon as I play I Love Supreme, fear
disappears immediately in the room.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Wow, Okay, now I gotta go into the first question.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Okay, Now, will you tell us what it was like
to work with Thomas?

Speaker 1 (20:50):
All right, can you tell me what was your first
musical memory?

Speaker 6 (20:57):
My dad, my father, we were in a in a
yard in the backyard in outlan Halisco, small little town,
and it was like five o'clock in the afternoon. Everything
kind of gives gold, you know, when the sound goes down.
Everything looks golden. And my father he was over there
teaching me how to read and one of me teaching
me how to play the violin. So he happened, opened

(21:18):
up the violin case, grab the violin, put it, put
it up here like this, and then he goes meta,
which means look meta.

Speaker 7 (21:25):
Then he went.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
And I'm like what And then a bird comes over.
There's a little lands lanes on this street, and he
was he goes, best, do you see? He goes as
one more time.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Bird.

Speaker 7 (21:48):
If you can talk to the birds, you can talk
to people. Get it.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I was like, d.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
That's crazy. My daddy do that too.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
He talked the bird really yeah, wow, And.

Speaker 7 (22:04):
See why don't you talk to Charlie bird? That's bird parking.
You're on a hale on the land.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
So your father was a violinist, yes, okay, okay? Oh?
Also what what where were you born?

Speaker 7 (22:20):
I was born in outland Jalisco. It's a little town
in between Gualalajada and Puerto Bayta. If you blink you
missed it. Okay, It's very small.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
And how long how long did you stay there? Like
what was your family situation? Like did you have brothers
and sisters or was it a musical family.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
Yes, thank you for asking. From forty seven, where I
was born.

Speaker 6 (22:48):
Till fifty five, we left because my mom was the
one that would always say those obamas, which means we're
out of here, you know, because my dad was already
living in Tijuana and sending us money from from Tijuana,
you know, because they got really hard to make a
living and outline howlice go for my dad and feed
four sisters and two brothers, and my mom and the

(23:09):
lady who was working with us. So it was a
lot of people to feed. And so my mom says,
we're out of here.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
You know.

Speaker 6 (23:16):
Your dad sent me some money to kind of like,
you know, make up and console me because they haven't.

Speaker 7 (23:22):
Seen me for almost like a year.

Speaker 6 (23:23):
So he sent me some money for me to buy
a stuff that we're living almost in the streets, you know.
And so she goes, I'm gonna take this money. I'm
going to give it to this guy that your dad knows.
He works as a cab driver in the center of town.
I'm going to give him half of that money and
use that money the rest of your have to feed
you guys. But we're going to Tijuana and we see you,
We're going to see your dad. And if your dad

(23:44):
don't want me or you guys, he have to tell us.
I the eye in front of us.

Speaker 7 (23:48):
So my mom, my mom was like that, you know.
So I was like, oh, so, so we.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
All got into one car, man and we took it
like a week to get there. And you know, it's
a long story, but but it's a story of this man.
My story is my mother is pure conviction, a pure
conviction woman, and my dad pure charisma. I mean, this dude, man,
it was like people looked at him like he was

(24:15):
like Clark Gable or something.

Speaker 7 (24:16):
You know.

Speaker 6 (24:18):
Women, Oh the who said, you know, they just melt
and stuff. So I got those two from my mom,
charisma and conviction, and they gave me something that is
very important for musicians to show up with, not arrogance,
but confidence, like Miles Dave's confidence, you know, Tony Williams confidence.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
What happened though, Carlos when she got there, she wrote,
she wrote up with confidence, but did she succeed eat
and what she wanted?

Speaker 6 (24:49):
Well, yeah, she had to knock on the door where
my dad had sent the address from this letter and
it was three o'clock in the afternoon, and nobody would
answer the door, and and so she so she knocked harder,
and then this woman opened the door, you know, and yeah,
and she was and so first before she answered the door,

(25:11):
there was like a wineo darrel like in the streets.
And she says to my mom, who are you looking for?
He said, So, my mom described my dadd He goes, oh,
he's inside. Knock again louder. So she knocked again, and the.

Speaker 7 (25:24):
Lady opened the door, and she started screaming at.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
My mom and cursing at her, and she was making
such a rockets my dad all my dad came out.
And first thing he looked at first thing, he looked
at me. First thing he looked at west me and
he was mesmer. He was like, and then he looked
at my mom and the rest of us, like, what
are you doing here?

Speaker 5 (25:44):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
And his and his.

Speaker 7 (25:47):
Face looked like.

Speaker 6 (25:50):
The NBC peacock with all the colors in it.

Speaker 7 (25:57):
And my mom said, my mom.

Speaker 6 (25:58):
My mom was like, you know, she did her thing,
and next thing, I know, he left that prostitute that
he was staying with, and then she took us into
this other place. And you know, it was the it
was the worst part of Tijuana. It was the ghetto
of the ghetto ghetto.

Speaker 7 (26:14):
You know, they didn't even have a roof yet, they
were still building this house.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know.

Speaker 7 (26:19):
I don't want to tell like like melancholy whatever, but
you know, it is what it.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
Is, and all that stuff gave us conviction, you know,
because there's you can only go up from here, you know.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Do you ever go back to your original hometown.

Speaker 7 (26:41):
Yes.

Speaker 6 (26:41):
I went to Outland a couple of times, and I
started the clinic, by the grace of God, a hospital clinic.
We invested I don't know how many millions because I
don't keep track of numbers and records.

Speaker 7 (26:55):
I don't know how many records I record. But anyway,
we're able to have.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
What is it called.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Foundation, Yes, it.

Speaker 6 (27:05):
Is a foundation, but it had a specific name, uh
santwary other lose like a sanctuary or light, you know.
And we had the latest and people from out Las
Vegas in Seattle. They donated brand new ambulances and stuff.
So this this this hotel, I mean, this hotel, this
hospital is it's no joke.

Speaker 7 (27:24):
It's really really really state of the art, you know.

Speaker 6 (27:27):
That's but I told but I told him, I think
I was doing that for fifteen twenty years with them,
and I told them, you're like a teenager. Now I'm
going to back off, and you need to pay your
own now, because you can't depend on me. It's like
when you tell your kids, man, you know, you need
to pay your own rent and you pay the water
you need to put you know, you know so I said,
So I'm back enough. You know, you in the town,

(27:49):
the mayor here is. But here's the thing, man, you
got it. You take care of it, because now I
want to do one in Tijuana and Juarez and and
you know, I don't know if you ever heard of
three squares.

Speaker 7 (28:02):
It's a place where they have food. This lady, Julie Merritt,
before she was going to die of cancer and before
she said, before I die, I'm going to create big,
giymongous buildings like Walmart's tall, fill them out with food
and feed the kids in Las Vegas.

Speaker 6 (28:20):
She did that with two buildings. She never died and
we learned so much from her. Now, if you just
take your time and go to three Squares and you
see what's happening with this building, and you see people
donating the You know, the thing about Las Vegas is
that the thing about Las Vegas, there's a lot of
people that I call weapons of mass compassion, people who

(28:42):
wake up to be of service to humanity. You don't
hear about them. You only hear about the clubs and
the streets. But there's bona fide people who I call
weapons of mass compassion, people who they roll up their sleeves,
they cook, they pack, they do all kinds of things,
and they're always helping and healing, care directing and curing
humanity's mentality.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
How did you know that that was your particular calling,
at least for you donating that center? Like why not
a school? Why not you know, housing development or whatever?
Like what was it about doing a not a hospital,
but like a center? What was it about that that

(29:25):
you felt that's what the town needed?

Speaker 7 (29:29):
Thank you for asking that.

Speaker 6 (29:30):
I grew up with Tito Puente and BB King believing
that I could be somewhere in the middle. But in
the meantime I was checking out the lordus ware to
Martin Luther King mother Teresa, So I would say, well,
I'm going to do this so I can do that,
you know, So I'm going to play music and with
the energy or money from that, I'm going to give

(29:51):
it to two million, five hundred clean to mister Desmond
Tuttu to help the children with aids so they can
have uniforms, so they can have shoes, you know, because
if you don't have shoes and uniforms, you can't get
into the classroom.

Speaker 7 (30:04):
So I donated. I did, We did a whole tour.

Speaker 6 (30:08):
I paid my taxes and I paid my band and
what was the rest of that. I gave it to
missvestmin to to clean one check, you know. And I
did it because I'm constantly like you and you and
everybody here, I come still being Nutch.

Speaker 7 (30:25):
Inwardly do this follow that?

Speaker 6 (30:29):
You know? And so but I said, but I don't
want people to know that I'm doing this, And they said, well,
I know that you don't want people to know that
you're giving two million, five hundred clean to this one
too to help with the kids and the aids and everything.
But see if people do find out a little bit,
then it will inspire other people to do podcast too,

(30:50):
I says. So, I says, but I don't feel comfortable
because it feels weird to do something. And then it
almost feels like, look at me, I'm doing no And
they said, he said, no, man, it's not like that, you.

Speaker 7 (30:59):
Know, trust us. And so I was like, so that's
why I did it like that.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
You know, I get it. I get it. Wow, Wow,
that's that's beautiful to hear. Well. Eventually, of course, I
know that you moved to the United States. I'm assuming
you moved to the Bay Area. How old were you
when you settled into California.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
I moved from Tijuana the first time in nineteen sixty two,
and Mom and I were not getting along.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
We weren't getting alone for a long time, you know, because
she was very domineering, very set, Like I said, a
lot of conviction, and I'm not, like, with all respect
to my sisters and brothers, I'm not that kind of
guy that goes like that, you know. So I wanted
to go back to where I was working. I was
working Tijuana in a nightclub called the Convoy. We would

(31:46):
play for an hour and for another hour there would
be women stripping.

Speaker 7 (31:52):
They were like a Stripperson still yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
So to me, I was like, oh, this is like
better than a circle, the solea whatever, you know, this
is yeah, I play an hour, you know, green onions
and you know, something's got a hold of it, and
play Eda Jeans and Booker t and all kinds of people,
and for an hour I get to see ladies, you know,
strip and do that do the thing because they have

(32:17):
to feed the kids, because they have to do what
they have to do, you know. But I was like, yeah,
this just go to junior high school in America. Oh no,
heck no, I don't want to go to junior high school.
I want to stay in this joint and grow up
watching this thing.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Junior high school. Carlos, You were like, whoa, Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Well he's born in forty seven, so now he's fifteen.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
Ye and they put plus they put me back because
I couldn't speak English. The only words that I knew
was stick him up.

Speaker 8 (32:47):
And there's the annamation from the most.

Speaker 6 (32:55):
Stick them up because I saw Roy Rogers, uh some
TV show Roy Rogers and somebody said stick about they
pull a gun and they're like, whoa. I said, oh,
they come up. Okay, you know, so that was one
of the first words.

Speaker 7 (33:07):
In English that I learned.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay. Who taught you how to play? Was guitar? Your
first weapon? Of choice.

Speaker 6 (33:15):
No, it was the violin. But I didn't like the
way it smell, the way it sound, way it felt, you.

Speaker 7 (33:22):
Know, because you got to get that, you know, and
I like.

Speaker 6 (33:28):
And my dad I didn't want to, you know, make
him angry. So I finally told him, you know, I
don't want to play this thing, man. And so my
mom took me to the center of town in Tijuana,
and there was a band called the Tjs, and there
was this dude named Haaviert about these who had a
big kunk like Little Richard, big khaki pants, you know,
big big, almost like bail bottom pans.

Speaker 7 (33:49):
And he he was a component of three.

Speaker 6 (33:51):
People, I mean, and he had it down. He was
like Baby King, Little Richard and Ray Chiles. That's all
he knew. And he played it really, really good. So
when I went to the center of town with my mom,
because she grabbed me by the hand, you're coming with me,
And I was like, I said, you haven't played a
while because your dad is in San Francisco, and I
don't want what he touches for you to lose it,

(34:13):
so come with me. So she pulled me by the
hand and she took me to see this guy and
they're playing, you know, they're playing, and the way he
hit those notes, he had that twang like bb King,
Freddie King, I'll bring He had that twang thing. And
I was like, it was like seeing a flying saficer
man or a first white whale or something.

Speaker 7 (34:33):
And I was like, oh my god, right there.

Speaker 6 (34:36):
I knew that's the only thing I was going to
be right there because of watching a guy play.

Speaker 7 (34:44):
I mean you could when he played the guitar and
the notes resonated against the cars and the trees and
the church across the street. Man, I was like, oh
my god, the sound of the guitar.

Speaker 6 (34:59):
Man is very uh you know, Jimmy Hendrix, Stevie Ray,
you know, is Albert King, is everybody you know.

Speaker 7 (35:07):
It's very It seduces your senses, is uh.

Speaker 6 (35:10):
Lauren Hill says, man one note from you and assaulted
all my senses, That's what she said.

Speaker 7 (35:17):
So that's what guitars, guitar guitar players do because when
you band the note.

Speaker 6 (35:22):
See, when you band the note and you know how
to get bended, man, that's when people hair stand.

Speaker 7 (35:27):
Up, you know, and even my holes. I see.

Speaker 6 (35:32):
I have a lot of pictures of my house with guitars,
you know, because he wanted to get into the guitar
and he wanted to know how to how to get
inside that note bending bending. There's something very very spiritual
and sensual. Spiritual and sensual about the guitar.

Speaker 7 (35:49):
Man, it's just you.

Speaker 9 (35:49):
Know, Carlos, if I may, can you just tell us
about the moment or the moments leading up in the
morning after when you received this first guitar, because I
it's it's got to be a special moment.

Speaker 7 (36:08):
But yeah, it was a special But thank you for
asking that.

Speaker 6 (36:10):
My dad found out for my mom that I didn't
want to quit music, but I wanted guitar.

Speaker 7 (36:14):
So he sent me a big fat guitar.

Speaker 6 (36:16):
So I liked West Montgomery, you know, and and uh
it had pickups, but I was so naive. I changed
the strengths and I put an eyeline strings because I
you know, and I said, well, man, I can get
a sound from this, and they said, no, you need
to put it, you know.

Speaker 7 (36:32):
So I changed the strengths again. Then I got in it.

Speaker 8 (36:36):
Man.

Speaker 6 (36:37):
When I got in it, people were telling me you
shouldn't played bass, man, because I started with the bass.
After that you played too many damn nuns to play
the bass. You used to play the guitar, I said, okay,
so you know.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
It was it was.

Speaker 6 (36:51):
It's a it's all been a revelation man, being in
this planet and learning how to articulate first selectric guitar
and then all the tune in African music. You know,
because because once you get into the drums, like I said,
I love drums so much, man.

Speaker 7 (37:08):
I married a drummer. Drummer, the drummer for me.

Speaker 6 (37:12):
You know that that that that is the closest to
Tony Williams alive, you know, because you know, because she
had you know, anyway, so that's a beautiful combination. You know,
the guitar cheeto puente on it tuni with bb King. Man,
that's a badass combination. Next thing, you know, next thing,

(37:34):
you know, everybody has congers into bolists, man, Next thing,
you know, like the Rolling Stones got congas hto bolist
uh slies got congas hinto.

Speaker 7 (37:41):
Ballists minus got congress. Why something happened, it would.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Stuck Mmm okay because of what they.

Speaker 6 (37:50):
Said, Because it worked, because they said that it works. See,
guitar and congus make women dance differently.

Speaker 7 (37:58):
You know.

Speaker 6 (38:00):
The hippies. The hippies ladies. You know, they're dancing like
they're catching butterflies.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
That is the standard white girl dance. I never I
never once thought of it as catching butterflies, but you did.

Speaker 7 (38:20):
But then you play at Wahita, you know, which is
like chango.

Speaker 6 (38:25):
With b the ging doom Doom Doom doom.

Speaker 7 (38:34):
Dad. Look at women just go oh okay, you know.

Speaker 8 (38:44):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Wow, if you get the women to dance to it,
then it works. Okay. Uh. I had questions of Carlos
about two particular players, and they're influence and on on
your playing and just you guys personal relationship, my vision
of John H. McLoughlin, and also Peter Green. What can

(39:10):
you say about you guys work together?

Speaker 6 (39:13):
Oh well, thank you for asking that. You know, I
knew about I knew about John from a bitches brew
and uh, but somebody told me in between I was
playing at the Filmore and a brother who was taking
care of like a ballet for BB King, he had
the day off and he says, man, you're coming with me.

Speaker 7 (39:29):
I says, where are we going? He says, We're going
to go to Slugs. What's that?

Speaker 6 (39:33):
It says, it's a club in Harlem, and a says,
I said, who's playing? It says Tony Williams trio, John McLaughlan,
Larry Young and Tony Williams. And that place was small,
but they were allowed.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Right, This was so period. This is before it for
a lifetime.

Speaker 7 (39:52):
Okay, emergency, emergency, emergency, emergency. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (39:55):
And when I first heard him play.

Speaker 6 (39:58):
Again, it's it's a different kind of revelation because you're
going from Johnny Hooker, Lightning Hopkins, Jimmy Reed, bb King,
Freddy King. You're going to a cat like John McLaughlin
who's playing a combination of John go Reinhardt with Robbie
Shanker with Wes Montgomery, and he's burning, burning with this

(40:23):
dexterity him and Tony Williams. And I was like, oh
my god, you know, I don't know people can actually
play like this. And here's the word I don't know
people who I didn't know people could articulate this kind
of language that is beyond superlatives.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Was Tony. You know, it's where one of the very
first American, not American roots shows, but one of the
very first root shows. Once we got our record deal,
Tony Williams was also at the gig, and I'm really
kicking myself that I didn't watch him, like I didn't

(41:05):
really start to worship him, even though I knew him
well or knew of his work well. But you know, unfortunately,
like I guess, when people pass away, then you really
you start to hear their music differently. And even like
this the next book that I wrote, like chapter one
is actually dedicated to there's a Tony Williams song called

(41:29):
there Comes the Time. Yeah that, yeah, that's that's how
I met my original manager. My manager used to be
like a DJ at a jazz station. And I don't know,
like I was really transfixed when I heard that song,
and like it just always stuck with me. But I
always wanted to know, like, since you got to witness

(41:51):
prime Tony Williams drum, was he his symbol playing to me?
And I get you know that Cindy is also so
like a branch of the Tony Williams tree. Was he
in person during his prime? Was he as violently loud
as a drummer as I imagine that he was, Because
my only testament, you know, besides what I see on YouTube,

(42:15):
but you know, a lot of that stuff is more
like eighties Tony Williams. But there's really not much of
the late sixties, early seventies twenty Tony Williams archives available.
But what was it? What was his power? Like? Like
he was just one of the loudest drummers I ever heard.

Speaker 6 (42:35):
I mean I heard Cream and their peak. I heard
Jimmy Hendrix at his peak. I heard led Sepplin at
their peak. I have never heard anybody play by Tony Williams,
John mcclough and Larry Young, not one of them come
close to dynamics and just pure energy did this guy's have?
Plus the mentality it's not even mentality because it's not

(42:58):
mental music.

Speaker 7 (43:00):
You know, you can't put superlatives on.

Speaker 6 (43:01):
Tony Williams or John Coltrane because there's just no words
in this planet to describe the unknown. But it's but
you've seen it, you're hearing it, and you cannot believe it.

Speaker 7 (43:14):
Let me give you an example.

Speaker 6 (43:16):
I zoomed then on his high hat on his foot,
and he was left right like like that, but at
the speed of a at the speed of a hummingbird's wing,
and he locks it. So that's locked.

Speaker 7 (43:32):
It's not going anywhere now.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
He can do whatever he wants to do with his
right hand and then with left hand and with his.

Speaker 7 (43:38):
Full drop drop bombs. But I never seen.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
Anybody lock a high head at the speed of the
hummingbird's wings and locked with total confidence and assurance. I
looked at him and I was like, oh my god,
this is like my brain just was like, I feel
like my brain's getting like stretch, you know, from That's

(44:03):
the best band.

Speaker 7 (44:04):
I have ever seen it in my entire existence.

Speaker 6 (44:07):
And I love Jimmy, I love Cream, I love Lidzepar,
I love a lot of them.

Speaker 7 (44:11):
I have never heard anybody with that trio like that.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I believe you. I believe you. You know, a couple
of episodes back, we have Raphael Sadik on our show,
and you know, to hear him describe the Bay Area
and what it meant to grow up in the Bay
Area at the time when musicianship was at its absolute peak,

(44:42):
you know, with with San Francisco, like with the the
Summer of Love coming into play and to bloom and
especially like in Oakland with funk brewing over there. How
how is that well for him? He was just describing
it what it was like be young to you know,

(45:03):
casually be a ten year old and see Larry Graham
or to casually see you or you know, all these
musicians that are in the area. What was it I mean,
because you're one of the pioneers in the Bay Area,
what was it about that particular place on the map

(45:24):
that just made musicianship on a whole another level? Like
can you just I mean, I'm assuming by you know,
by at least the mid sixties, you got your chops up.
So can you just describe pre record deal, pre Santana
first record? Like what what.

Speaker 8 (45:44):
Is the.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Modus operandi of a musician in say nineteen sixty seven,
nineteen sixty eight in the Bay Area? Like is it
Jam Sessions Galore? Is it? Like who your peers at
the time?

Speaker 6 (46:00):
Hm Brown zero for consciousness Revolution. You know, besides Els
the peote, mescaline, ayahuasca, you have Charles Lloyd, You have
John Handy, you have Robbie Shankard, you have or this
is reading, you have James Brown.

Speaker 7 (46:18):
You have all all of it is in one particular.

Speaker 6 (46:23):
Like a nebula, you know, and you have bb King,
you have Albert King, and then you have uh who else?

Speaker 7 (46:31):
You have Lee Morgan? You know, you can go you
can go any club man, and.

Speaker 6 (46:35):
Here this this, you know, George Benson, this cat this
before George Benson was singing, you know, and he was
she was tearing the guitar up and a whole other
kind of way. So for me, when people say what
are you going to do tonight, it says, man, it's
hard to decide. I'm going to go to the Both
Hands Club and see Miles Davis, or I'm gonna go
see Monga Santo Maria or West Montgomery or the Grateful

(46:59):
Dead or Live Stone, you know, and it's all like
right there, you know. And so what makes it more
delicious is that you can actually understand what they're doing.
You know, it's not out of the realm of your
understanding capabilities. And it's like if you keep looking at

(47:20):
it and hearing it from your inner.

Speaker 7 (47:22):
Ear, you can see what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
You know.

Speaker 6 (47:26):
It's just a matter of like going home and articulating,
getting close to the facility, because you have to have
a certain kind of facility to articulate.

Speaker 7 (47:37):
You know.

Speaker 6 (47:37):
I mean, the difference between I can tell the one no,
the difference between Lee Morgan or Freddie Habert or Miles
or Clark Terry, you know, just trumpets alone. I know
the guitar players, I know the drummers, you know. And
so for me, growing up in San Francisco was like
the ultimate university of being connected to it all and

(48:00):
at the same time develop your own individuality, uniqueness and authenticity,
you know, because anybody will.

Speaker 7 (48:10):
Tell you, man, don't play my shit.

Speaker 6 (48:12):
Hey, We'll get your own, man, you know, don't don't
come over here playing somebody else's shit, man, you know,
and they gave it. They give you that look, you know, like, hey, man,
you know they do.

Speaker 7 (48:22):
That in Africa.

Speaker 6 (48:23):
Also, they might have fifty drummers and each one has
to play their own thing. They'll give you a dirty
look like, man, don't play my thing, Go get your
own thing, you know.

Speaker 7 (48:33):
And it was like that in San Francisco.

Speaker 6 (48:35):
You have to find, you know, the difference between sly
stepping wolf and creating's clear water, you know, Tina Turner.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
Albert Collins, Albera King, you know. And for me, I
was like I couldn't get enough, man, I could hardly.
I didn't even want to go to sleep because I
just want to soak it all up. I said, Man,
I must have died because this is heaven. Heaven. You know,
if you want to just check out john Ley Hooker
and the Doors and Coltrane, I love Supreme. It's the

(49:08):
same thing.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Right true. Wait, can I do a follow up to
that question, Steve?

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Yeah, I'll allow it.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Thank you, I appreciate it. Here's the thing though, because
your debut album, and I want to know how you
got your record deal, but your debut album also arrives
at the same time, right in the same month as Woodstock,
which clearly that's the event that will define that generation.

(49:45):
But what I also noticed was that right after Woodstock,
it's kind of the you know, the turn of a
new decade, and things got darker, you know, a lot
of cynicism, a lot of darkness, especially in the music
of Sly And you know, I'm and I'm conflicted on

(50:05):
there's a ride going on, you know, because yes, it's
it's the first funk record and I can't deny something
that literally puts food on my table to this day.
But also know that that album to me is almost
like Slide falling on his sword, if you will, like
his personal demons also coming to light. But then you know,

(50:28):
but I also feel like with the exception of a
choice few, you seem to be the only person from
the Woodstock, the class of Woodstock, that still stayed in
a spiritual lane. Like you didn't get dark, You didn't
get you didn't get cynical. You know, I don't I

(50:49):
don't know what was happening in your personal life at
the time, But can you explain why when everyone else
at the turn of sixty nine seventy seventy one, when
they all went to kind of a darker creative place,
that you didn't venture there all that much like your

(51:12):
music and even though like of course, like by the
fourth or fifth album, you sort of slid away from
I guess what Clive would have life loved you to
keep churning out the hits and whatnot to the level
of the first two records. But you know you didn't
go dark. And can you explain why or what was

(51:36):
happening at least at that time that just caused everyone
to go to just a darker cynical place with their creativity.

Speaker 6 (51:44):
Thank you for asking that. You know, most of it
comes from my mother saying to me so nosti, which
means that is not for you. For you, you know
the cocaine, cocaine shooting up that is not for you.
And she said it so loud and so engraded in
my thing. So the other thing is that I want

(52:08):
to just pause for a second and tell you I
want to offer you my deepest gratitude for bringing out
the black woodstof from from Harlem, because man, I just
signed this summer and I was like, damn, I got
all these questions to ask you. Man, like you have
the whole thing from Sunny Sharraq I want.

Speaker 10 (52:29):
I want you know the second you're the second very
famous guitar player that wants to hear that you and
Papatheni can go down on Sundys sharrock man all day.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
It was amazing.

Speaker 7 (52:42):
Okay, Okay, so I'm gonna do.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
I'm connected with Dave Snyder, which is this keyboard player
and and uh I made a promise.

Speaker 7 (52:50):
To create a Jubilation Okay, that's the name of the CD.

Speaker 6 (52:56):
Now I'm going to have all the drunk guitar players
that I love, and each one is gonna pick a song.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Wow. Yeah, I already decided you're going to be my shaman.
So yes, I'll share that with you. Something I've never
seen had you heard.

Speaker 8 (53:27):
Of that concert in real time? Like, had you heard
of what was going on in Harlem?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Wow, don't.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
It's not called the black Woodstock.

Speaker 7 (53:35):
We don't do that, I know. Sorry, you know, yes, okay,
I'm sorry. What do you call it? The summer summer?

Speaker 8 (53:41):
So summer summer of soul in the con I mean
the folks that live there called the concert at that park?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
What's the park again?

Speaker 1 (53:48):
A mayor? Marcus Dery, Marcus Garvey, Marcus Garvey Park.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
Yeah, okay, I know about that.

Speaker 6 (53:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, So did you know about it in real time?

Speaker 7 (53:56):
No?

Speaker 6 (53:56):
No, I mean I heard it floating around because the
person and who told me about this before anybody was
Greg and Rico, because he knew it existed, you know
how to get a hold of it, you know. And
so those are the two things that I want, Actually
I need a lot because to answer your question again
about not so coming to the predictable victim pathetic, predictable

(54:21):
mentality of being too too high to play, which is
a contradiction because when I when you play, you get high,
you know, so that means that you're doing something chemically
that you shouldn't be doing because now you're you're putting
your you're putting your light, your spirit, and your soul
to the side, and your ego is saying, hey, man,

(54:43):
I got this.

Speaker 7 (54:44):
In meantime, it don't sound so good or it looks
so good or smells so good, you know.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
So, So what I did is like I pay attention
to the Staples singers because I hung around with him
in Pop Staples, and I hang around, you know, with
John mcclock and so I basically I join in a
West Point type of spiritual discipline path which rich and

(55:12):
moy and that kept me from self destruction because you know, here,
here's the thing before we move up there, there is
such a thing as self deception and self discovery.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Okay, talk about it.

Speaker 7 (55:28):
So self deception is this.

Speaker 6 (55:34):
Self discovery is like I'm going to open my heart
and let God in the universe like our blake he
said it. Here's how Blakey from the Creator through us
for you. That's for me that was hired. That was
higher than heroin, cocaine or any of the other substance

(55:54):
like that man from the Creator directly through me for you.
And once I heard about that one, then you know
you're not going to bamboostle Santana into thinking less than
my light, my spirited and my soul.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
So no, no, we know ayahwasta.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
It sounds like self deception is cocaine, but self discovery
is shrooms.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
I would like to also be clear that, yeah, I
think with ayahuasca and we like, I don't. I never
consider those drugs medicine more than you.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Know, maybe the FDA does, but you know you're right about.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
That because they don't want us enlightened.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I'm with it. I mean, I was just just curious.
I'm I'm in the baby stations.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Do you often do like uh sound baths or rituals
or those sort of things like sound uh spiritual sound
journeys or those sort of things like with the spiritual
community or anything.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
The closest thing that I do now to any of that,
get a heart felt hug from Cindy and stay there.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, Wow, what else do you need?

Speaker 2 (57:07):
I would take one of those?

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Was there you go?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Not to be creepy, but your wife is amazing.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Steve.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Oh, okay, well, I really want I really want to
get to like Kirk's questions, but I'll ask one of
my two questions. Now, since we're short of in this
time period, I wanted to know if you could tell
our list is about Luis Gaska. You were on an
album in seventy two with him. He's a trumpet player.

(57:40):
The album's call for those who chant, and I just
wanted to put a little light on that, on that name,
if you could tell us about him.

Speaker 7 (57:47):
Well, thank you for asking that man.

Speaker 6 (57:49):
When the band broke up, you know, there was a period,
a specific night when I said to certain musicians I
need so and so to be out of the band
because there's a line the rest of the band with
hair run and cocaine, and we sound like crap. We
don't practice, and this is not This is not the
band that I mean that I want to be in.

Speaker 10 (58:10):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
Our platinum albums are collecting dust and we're not moving forward.
So I want this guy and that guy to be
out of the band or I won't be on the plane.

Speaker 7 (58:20):
And they said, well then it's not your band, you
won't be on the plane. I said, okay. So they
left without me, you know, And so what.

Speaker 6 (58:27):
I did to console myself I went to the basins
Street West and Broadway, San Francisco, hung out with Luis Gaska,
Joe Henderson, George Cables, and this drummer, a drummer who played.

Speaker 7 (58:45):
Marshall.

Speaker 6 (58:46):
This is this, and they allowed me to come in
and say hey, man, I was like, they said, goheare Santana,
you know.

Speaker 7 (58:52):
So when they dude, dude, I was like, oh, this
is this is different, you know.

Speaker 6 (59:04):
So I wasn't afraid to not be in Santana anymore
because the whole world was embracing me to learn from
Joe Henderson and Wullis Gaska and and everybody out like that.
Any Eddie Marshall, I think it's his name, you know.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
And so.

Speaker 7 (59:22):
God found a way for me not to feel sorry
for myself for being uh, you know, like tripping on
you know, what's gonna happen to poor me. I don't
think like that anyway, you know. So I just went
to the.

Speaker 6 (59:33):
Clubs and started sitting in with people, and they were
so gracious enough to be patient. Though I didn't know
a lot of the changes, but I knew when to
play and when not to play.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
But even if it was your band, you were willing
to leave an organization that had your namesake adds its name.

Speaker 6 (59:53):
Yeah, because at that time, it was more like a
lot of bands. It was democratic, you know, until I realized, no,
it has my name, and I can't have somebody wearing
a Santana jacket going to the wrong places in town,
doing the wrong thing because then, you know, So anyway,
to me.

Speaker 7 (01:00:11):
All that stuff was a blessing in this guys.

Speaker 6 (01:00:13):
Man, everything that has happened to me, like the so
called career suicide, which i'd done three or four times,
you know, but at the meantime, I'm hanging around with Herbie,
you know, or Wayne, or hanging around with Alice Coltrane
or or Larry Young, you know. So every time I
commit career suicide, I'm learning from the master's masters. And

(01:00:34):
so hey man, this this is this is just la
creme de la creme, you know, hanging around with them.

Speaker 8 (01:00:41):
You got to tell us about your Alice Coltrane encounter
and the first time you met her, because it must
have been spiritual at the least.

Speaker 6 (01:00:50):
Okay, so I got this this one that a lot
of people are going to roll their eyes because they're
not going to believe it, but I don't care because
I was there. So she find me to stay in
her house for a whole week, and I was hanging
around with the children because at that time they were children,
and we would we would wake up like a run
one thirty in the morning, and we would meditate first,

(01:01:10):
and then she would play harp, and then she played piano,
and then she would play The World is Her piano,
and then we meditate again.

Speaker 7 (01:01:19):
And when we were meditating, it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:21):
Got really really deep and quiet, and all of a sudden,
I swear to you, I see John Coltrane coming right
at me one of many times, but this one's coming
right at me. And it's got a snow cone with
three flavors of ice cream, right, and this is the

(01:01:43):
all inwardly And so she's just next to me, and
she goes, go ahead, try one.

Speaker 7 (01:01:49):
How does she knew what.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
Was inside my meditation? She goes, go ahead, go ahead,
try one. So I licked it, and she goes, that's
a beef fla diminished seven. Try another one. So I
licked it again. Man, I was like, oh my god,
I'm an Alice Coltrane and coltrans here offering me a

(01:02:12):
snow cone with three flavors of ice cream in each
flavor is a guitar.

Speaker 7 (01:02:16):
I mean their course, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Were they a specific color. Did it correspond color?

Speaker 7 (01:02:22):
Yeah? They were like yellow, green and orange?

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
And what was be flat diminished? Do you remember be.

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
Flat diminished was at that time at least but that
particularly night was the yellow one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Okay, so you you you believe in synesthesia? Does absolutely? No?
I believe. Look, I believe. I was going to say,
you know, oftentimes when you have this level, when you're
at this this level of this particular a plane, a

(01:03:01):
lot of inexplicable things start happening to you that average
mere mortals would just think like that didn't happen or whatever.
But you know it's no, I absolutely believe that human
beings are regular human beings are just very limited in
their three dimensional.

Speaker 8 (01:03:21):
Yeah, but in your higher thought, I don't think he's
supposed to think of people like that, though, are you.

Speaker 7 (01:03:25):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
No, No, I know they are mortals, mere humans. Mir Well,
I'm trying to paraphrase it because we're not a visual show,
so I can't, you know, but.

Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
It's like a house. It's like a house.

Speaker 6 (01:03:34):
You got the first floor, second floor, you know, the roof,
and you have the basement. You know, So we're not
we're not putting anybody down it's just it's just a building.

Speaker 8 (01:03:44):
So many people want it, they just don't know how
to get it. So it's fortunate when you can find
it correct.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Did you want to ask something, Uh, there's there's plenty.

Speaker 9 (01:03:53):
I realized amount of time, and I want to talk
about some gear too and that side of things. But
before I get to that, I have to say, mister Santana,
I got to meet you one time. It was on
I think on a Where's where's that guitar shop?

Speaker 8 (01:04:13):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (01:04:14):
Madauw Minov Guitars? No, Madame Manov Guitars used to be
there on West Fourth Street in the village. I was
with my son and you walked out of the store.
You like walked into us, and I was like Carlos
and you said hello, and you looked at my son
and you said.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Hey, angel, one day you're going to heal the world. Wow.

Speaker 9 (01:04:42):
The night before this encounter, we were watching a movie
called Soul to Soul ironically and oh.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
My mother was just talking about this.

Speaker 9 (01:04:50):
Yes, and I said to my son, it's the guy
from the movie. So I'm wondering in Soul to Soul
was that your first trip to Africa? And can you
speak on that? Experience, whether it was your first time
or not.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
Yes, to go to Africa in Ghana, Akara Ghana, and
the things that I've learned Yea Akara Ghana, and too
to be in a place where I get to learn
about d Shaman who was so profoundly powerful that the
mayor would move out of the way and the police

(01:05:27):
department would get out of the way, I mean able
to get get out of the way when this guy
would come to the streets, you know, and Wilson Pickett
would say, don't tell me anything about it. I don't
want to hear about it. I don't want to hear
that stuff, you know, because he didn't he didn't want
to be put into an ex kind of thing, you know,
you know, because he was afraid.

Speaker 7 (01:05:45):
Of like he was afraid he was locked and he
was ucked, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:05:49):
So Willi Bob was playing with us because our regular
timbata player, Shipido had an aneurysm. So we we took
Willie bobble with us. And Willi Bobo had co yatis,
you know, to protect and so from you know, the
other the voodoo from Africa, so he thought, and so
uh and so he so he got really really sick

(01:06:09):
with my brother Willie Bobo. And so uh, Michael Caravella said, hey, man,
you need to go to his room. Like I said, man,
it's still a clock to the morn. He says, yeah,
but I've been here all night. It's your turn.

Speaker 7 (01:06:19):
And just grab some towels and wet him and put
her in his head, you know, because he's sweating a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:06:23):
Just help him out. So I go over there to
his room and the guy knocks on the door. It's
a regular doctor doctor and he looks just like Aussie Davis, right,
And I'm like okay, and he goes coming in, and
so I'm looking at Willy and how you doing, man?

Speaker 7 (01:06:38):
He's just oh, man, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:06:40):
And so there's another knock on the door, and there's
the voodoo man, the main boodoo man, the guy who
put him, he put the thing on him and he
and he looks at me right in the door. And
I had an inner conversation like I did with Alice Coltrane.
So I'm having this conversation with this shaman, and I said,

(01:07:00):
I know who you are and I know what you got,
but if you want to deal with me, you have
to go through this. And I had a T shirt
with Jesus in it. I said, so, if you can
kick his ass, I'm yours. Otherwise you have to leave
me alone. Just like that, He looked him in my
eyes and went right around me and left me alone.

Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
You know. So I knew that we had an understanding.

Speaker 6 (01:07:27):
You know, it's all about the energy, and he knew
that I wasn't intimidated because I'm holding on to sweet
Baby Jesus, you know, and I have a confidence again
that sweet Baby Jesus is going is going to like,
let this cat know he's okay, leave him alone. You know,
he's not a threat or anything like that. Just just

(01:07:48):
leave him alone. And so the being in Africa and
learning how.

Speaker 7 (01:07:56):
To articulate, you know, the real them check this out.

Speaker 6 (01:08:02):
So we're invited to a dinner where everybody is there,
the mayor, everybody, and then they said, will you will
you guys please take off your hat hats and and
stand up because we're gonna do the national anthem. Here
comes the national anthem, national anthem? Do they dude, which
is which is going?

Speaker 7 (01:08:20):
Answer? Good man? Woman?

Speaker 11 (01:08:25):
Go oh oh together oh THEO. And I said, wait
a minute, that's one something that is national anthem and
culture and playing going no this We were playing the
song before Santa Maria was.

Speaker 7 (01:08:44):
Ever in this planet. This is our Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
In Ghana is Ghana.

Speaker 7 (01:08:50):
That's there's a national anthem and.

Speaker 8 (01:08:55):
See more.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
I'm gonna get them serious.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Yeah, man, we always did it first.

Speaker 8 (01:09:02):
We always always that's the foundation.

Speaker 7 (01:09:08):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Well, as a drummer to drummer, boss, you should be
there mm hmm.

Speaker 9 (01:09:16):
The time when you start to come into the world's
consciousness is kind of simultaneous with when loud electric guitars
starts to come into our consciousness and souped up amps
and stuff like that. Uh, there's a there's a rumor

(01:09:37):
that mess a boogies are called mess of boogies because
you tried out an amp from a cat and you're like, man,
this thing boogies, and now they call it boogies.

Speaker 5 (01:09:53):
Is that true?

Speaker 7 (01:09:55):
Yeah, I'll tell you the other half of it. The
other half it was like the other half of it
was like, look, man, I need to bring your amplifier back, and.

Speaker 6 (01:10:04):
I wonder know if you can do something for me. Well,
what kind of hell was it? It's a princeton, souped
up princeton before it was a book. It's a zoop
stop Princeton before it was a boogie and he says, so,
he says, what can I do for you?

Speaker 7 (01:10:16):
Man?

Speaker 6 (01:10:16):
I says, I need for you to put another volume control.
He goes, what put another volume control? He goes, what four?
So I can turn this one to ten and this
one to one and I can sustain and not drive
people crazy in the hotel.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Oh, this is why you're on this episode because I
would have never known to ask that question. Happy.

Speaker 9 (01:10:43):
Wow, And Who's who is the cat you took it to?
I know I should know this because I work with Boogiey.

Speaker 6 (01:10:49):
His name is Randy Randy Smith, Randall Smith, Randall Smith.

Speaker 7 (01:10:52):
That's right, Sorry, Randall.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
If you hear this, Wait, something just hit me right now.
And if I don't say it, I'll forget to ask it.
But it just hit me. Wow. I can't believe I'm
about to ask this question. I believe it is your
albums that the world got to know the artwork of

(01:11:18):
Marty Clairwin. Yeah, the Marty Clairwine. Yeah, like the infamous.
You know, he did Bitches Brew. He did at least
three covers for Herbie Hancock. He did Last Days in
Time for Earth Wind and Fire had a very distinctive

(01:11:38):
part collage. I mean again, if for our listeners out there,
just look up Bitches brew look up at Braxis. I mean,
I believe a Braxic Braxis Is, I think his first cover.
How did you discover Marty clair Wine and how did
he wind up just designing for practically eight other artist

(01:12:01):
on Columbia And did you feel some sort of way
when everyone wanted to use his artwork after you used
him first?

Speaker 6 (01:12:11):
To be with precision and specificity, it was Miles Davis
with Bitches Brewed that came out. That Cauban in sixty nine,
I was came out in nineteen seventy. Now, the Braxis album,
The Black Naked Lady, that's Mary, and the angel with
the conga that's Gabriel. So that's the annunciation that she's
going she's gonna get pregnant with Jesus. So the whole

(01:12:35):
a cover of a Braxist is actually called the annunciation
because Gabriel with the conga between his legs, the beautiful
angel is telling Mary you know you're you're either about
to or you're pregnant with Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
That's what that think is about Wow, Okay, do you
have your were you do you own the original piece?

Speaker 6 (01:12:58):
I almost bought it, but I did. I tell what
I did by in perpetuity. I bought the angel with
the conga. Every time you see that angel with the
conga between his legs.

Speaker 7 (01:13:10):
That one is mine.

Speaker 6 (01:13:11):
I bought that one from him in perpetuity and perpetuity
because that's what Santana is. As soon as you see
that angel with the conga, you know that's you know,
that's that's the logo. That's Santana logo.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Okay, Yeah, I think at Electric Ladies Studios, they didn't
realize that they had Stevie Wonder's artwork for Music of
My Mind, at least the inside that Marty put together.
They found it in the closet like after sitting in

(01:13:43):
there for like forty five years, and they finally like
framed it and hung it up. But yeah, so, I mean,
what was it What was it about his work that
spoke to you acid? There? You go, all right, since
you brought it up, what is it about acid? And

(01:14:05):
do you recommend it? And how should it how should
it be partaking? I would assume in spiritual circumstances or
what visions do you see? I've never asked a person
what's it like to take acid. It's a very perpose
to learn.

Speaker 6 (01:14:25):
It's a very it's a very personal experience, a very
personal experience.

Speaker 7 (01:14:29):
And I do recommend it under supervision, you know. So, uh,
they have, believe it or not.

Speaker 6 (01:14:36):
They actually have people's tours that they go to South
America in the jungles of Peru and Brazil and they
spend a week in or a week and they do
the ayahuasca thing, and uh, you know, it's it's a
form of, uh, getting rid of a bunch of personalities

(01:14:58):
that you invested in emotionally that it's not you. Oh
tell me, Oh, I'm in you know, because because your
friends see you this way, and then you teach you
see you that way, and then your mom see you
this way.

Speaker 7 (01:15:12):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:15:12):
But who really here's the question, you know, the main
question about LSD. Who really are you when you stand
but naked in front of.

Speaker 7 (01:15:20):
Your own light?

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Wow?

Speaker 8 (01:15:22):
Now I can do this, not just I can do
this with ayot or ayahuasca or acid or is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
There one author different? Yeah? Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:15:35):
You know, all of the all of those things are
just like portals. It's just it's just fears and portals
that you walk into. And if you're a nice person,
you're going to have a great time.

Speaker 7 (01:15:45):
If you're an a, you don't don't try it because
you you know, some people when you do it, they
make the mistake of getting under the sheets because they
don't like what they're seeing, you know, And that makes
it worse because now you've got to deal with you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I've heard this, you know, so I've heard this.

Speaker 7 (01:16:04):
I had so much fun.

Speaker 6 (01:16:05):
I thought I was a kid man in Disneyland, and
I had free tickets for the older rides, and you know,
because I wasn't afraid, and I was still not afraid.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
And you're a nice person, and I'm a nice person.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Can I ask my second shared a question speaking of
what you were just saying. With regards to taking answer,
you said you played on a song called Pretty as
You Feel with Jefferson Airplane in nineteen seventy one and
played with with Yorma Calcn on that song. Can you
tell us anything you remember about that session or about

(01:16:40):
playing with Yorma?

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
And do you still talk to Yorma.

Speaker 7 (01:16:43):
We haven't seen each other in a while.

Speaker 6 (01:16:46):
The last time we did something was think called Blues
Forsavador with Jerry Garcia and Wayne Shorter and Bunny Ray No,
I haven't seen.

Speaker 7 (01:16:54):
Him, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:16:55):
It was that was like a beautiful way for me
to be accepted, because Santana wasn't totally accepted, you know,
in the San Francisco scene, because we were rough.

Speaker 7 (01:17:08):
You know, we're from the Mission District and we're rough.

Speaker 6 (01:17:11):
We're not necessarily like groovy, fire out whatever, man, hippie.
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:17:15):
We were like, no, man, we don't you know.

Speaker 6 (01:17:18):
So it was different until I started smoking weed and
taking LSD and I said, oh, yeah, now I know
what they're talking about. Let's go to Montauo Pias and
hang out with Quicksilver and the Greyfoot Dead and your
Mine and Jack Cassidy.

Speaker 7 (01:17:31):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:17:32):
But in the beginning it was kind of like a
rival conflict kind of thing, and basically basically because of
there's a mentality of Marine County versus the Mission District
in San Francisco, which is like like the Jets and
the Sharks.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
Do you remember that session for that song.

Speaker 7 (01:17:54):
I think I smoked a lot of weed that day,
so I don't know if I remember it.

Speaker 8 (01:17:56):
That everything else though you were a hope to stonech
Y Goles.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
I wanted to ask you, and it is a little
further in the timeline, what do you recall about the
song whatever happens with Michael Jackson that you played one.

Speaker 7 (01:18:15):
That is so sweet?

Speaker 8 (01:18:16):
Man?

Speaker 7 (01:18:17):
That was so sweet? They told me, hey, Michael, because
at that time I was just supernatural. Everybody was calling,
you know, Prince and Michael and everybody want to find
out if we could interact, you know, in exchange, and uh,
you know, uh being a fan of both Prince and

(01:18:37):
Michael Jackson, I mean to the max you know who
isn't you know? And uh, I mean I.

Speaker 6 (01:18:42):
Got like a bunch of stories to share with Prince,
but I won't do it right now. But the way
with Michael Jackson, I received this phone call and it
was from his last arranger, producer h right now.

Speaker 7 (01:18:58):
I forget his name. He was the main guy, John.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
John Queen Lane.

Speaker 7 (01:19:04):
No, I don't think it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Was Jeremy Love was Jeremy Love it? No? What's his
name from Philly? Uh? My guy? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:19:16):
Call an He called and they said they sent me
the track and and then I played on it and
and I was like, wow, you know, I'm just so
honor you know that I'm able to uh be with
Michael Jackson and with Prinds.

Speaker 7 (01:19:33):
We we we.

Speaker 6 (01:19:35):
We did a lot of things live, but we never
recorded it. And same thing with Miles, you know. So
I feel very validated and celebrated because well, it took
him a long, long, long, long long time for the
Grammys to acknowledge me and anything, and they finally give
it to me with Supernatural, like you know, eight eleven

(01:19:56):
nomination eleven nominations, and and I wanted the same and
I won nine, uh Grammy's like Michael, you know. And
what was really crazy is like likes like a supremel
is the the last one?

Speaker 7 (01:20:10):
Is Bob Dylan.

Speaker 6 (01:20:13):
And Lauren Hill giving me the last one, you know,
And here's Marry Belafonte and Wayne Shoulder and that's all
I can see.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Man.

Speaker 7 (01:20:20):
I just see Wayne.

Speaker 6 (01:20:21):
Shoulder and Herry Belafonte and Bob Dylan and and I
remember saying, I am so grateful, thank you for this
beautiful night, long live John Coltrane and John Lee hook
you know, because that's my foundation.

Speaker 7 (01:20:37):
John Lee is like he calls me and he says Carlos.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
I says, yes, John, He says, I loves God and
I loves people, you know. And and he called me
one time for his birthday and he says, I said, hello, hey, man,
good to call me. Sometimes I says, are you doing,

(01:21:03):
Johnny says a man.

Speaker 7 (01:21:06):
When I hear you your boys, it's like eating a
great big piece of chocolate cake.

Speaker 5 (01:21:18):
And I have it.

Speaker 6 (01:21:19):
I recorded it, you know, because see I'm just I'm
showing that right now.

Speaker 7 (01:21:24):
He goes, this is my validation, man, hooker. That's that's
what Santana is about, you know, with a lot of
drums for you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
Okay. So I was going to say, when okay, we're
going all over the timeline. Now this might as well
just be rapid fire. Let's go. So the thing is,
the thing is is that Okay, So in eighty five
when Prince said, you know, like everyone keeps comparing to
me to Hendricks, but that's basically because we have the

(01:21:55):
same skin color. But they really listened to my work.
They would clearly say that I'm from you know, the
DNA of Santana, which is true. But this is what
I want to know, especially with your work with both
Lauren and why Cliff. And the thing is is that

(01:22:18):
you know when you're on Zion, and the thing is
is like, and I again, I know that that Marachi playing,
you know, that's your roots and whatnot playing acoustic guitar. However,
I'm almost are you worried that people aren't really grasping

(01:22:44):
what your artistry is? Because the thing is is that
and I'm not going into type casting, but if I'm
getting Santana on my record, I would have probably had
you do something that's closer to the guitar solo that's
at the end of X Factor X Factor, which sounds
I thought that was Santana when I heard that he

(01:23:06):
was on the album, I thought that was him at
d X factor. The thing is, because of you know,
this is like CD streaming time. You know, you don't
live with liner notes the way that you used to
when it was cassettes and LPs. So I just always
assumed that you weren't X factor. And then one day
when I like just sat and read her liner notes,
I'm like, wait a minute, does she get to play

(01:23:29):
acoustic guitar? Because like, oh, Mexican Santana give him to
play acoustic And I was like, I wonder if she
knows that his sound was really the sound of the
song that came before that, and also with with the
product beat GB and with y Cleft the same thing.

(01:23:50):
Do you sometimes wonder an.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Album, what's the song of me? Or what's the song
I forget?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
What for Lay's album? Yeah, Lauren was Zion was Zion,
but the one we're talking about is X factor. Yes, right,
So what I'm just saying is that, you know, I
was trying to over I was over as with everything.
I overanalyzed it, and I was like, well, did they
take him out of his normal comfort zone because they

(01:24:19):
didn't want him to sound like Carlos Santana or did
they just not know? Because I was just wondering, like,
why would you have Carlo Santana just play acoustic guitar
when he really would light up? Let me just start
all over again. What was the creative process like when
you did Lauren and when you work with y Cliff

(01:24:40):
on your solo record and when you did a miseducation
of Lauren Hill.

Speaker 7 (01:24:45):
Well, thank you for all that, you know, let me
explain to you how I arrived at getting the sound.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Okay, So there was a picnic in San Jose like
around this summer, and I went there and there was
a park, and in the park in the afternoon they
were playing like a picnic. They were playing mariachi music.

Speaker 7 (01:25:08):
They were playing.

Speaker 6 (01:25:10):
Afro Cuban music, which is like chadanga Cha Cha cha
Dan song Medenge you know from from Dominican Republican and
guahitas like Ray Baretto. And then you have a rock
and roll band, you know, like like a bunch of surfers,
you know. So I'm hearing all music at the same time.
When I got out of the car, I'm hearing three

(01:25:31):
different sounds, and I went, oh, okay. So it's like
it's just like grabbing all of it and making one sound.
And so now when people they're still trying to define
me sometimes and I just told him very politely, well,

(01:25:55):
I am a multi dimensional motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
It's a good part, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:26:05):
Yeah, that that or a Mexic MEXI C A N
with capital C A N. But the reason I say that, man,
is because I have the confidence after being with Tony
and Herbie and Wayne and Miles and they invited me
into their sanctune, you know, and all of them bb King,

(01:26:26):
Freddie King, alber King, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:26:28):
So it has given me a confidence that all I
need to do.

Speaker 6 (01:26:33):
Now is just compliment whatever gets in front of me,
because I'm not going to let myself for anybody. So
go encapsulate me or put me, define me, to redefine me, because.

Speaker 7 (01:26:49):
Let's go back to Bruce, Bruce Lee. Let's be let's
just be water.

Speaker 8 (01:26:54):
You know, so Carlos Santana has never played a link
that Carlos Santana ain't want to play and ain't plan
out himself.

Speaker 7 (01:26:59):
No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 6 (01:27:02):
There's a lot of artists that you know I would respect,
but if they would call me, I would say, I'm
kind of busy and thank you right now, but my
plate is full and my fact I gotta do time
with my family. And the only Crichaire that I wouldn't
played with someone is if I don't feel it. If
I don't feel it, I'm not going to play.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
I was asking just from the standpoint of Okay, for example,
I'm probably guilty of the same thing myself, not because
I told him to do this, but because this is
what we chose to use. But the one time that
we worked with Prince on the record, Prince only played keyboards,
which you know, it's almost like Wow, you got Prince

(01:27:43):
to play on an album that you produced and he
didn't touch the guitar once you got him to play
like you got him to play tambourine like that sort
of thing. And I just I just I don't know.
I just felt like, once I found out that you
weren't playing in your the signature style that I know

(01:28:04):
you for, I was just wondering why they didn't use
that to the hilt on those particular records. But granted, yes,
your water and you can't be type cast and there's
nothing that you don't do that's not you, So I
respect that.

Speaker 6 (01:28:22):
You know the whole thing about this in this interview,
you can just summarize it in two words.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Hit me.

Speaker 7 (01:28:28):
Impeccable integrity.

Speaker 6 (01:28:32):
That's it, you know, because everybody that I love they
have that sound of impeccable integrity.

Speaker 7 (01:28:41):
And with that sound you get a standing ovation from.

Speaker 6 (01:28:46):
God, the angels, and the devil that was that is
there is such a thing. I don't believe in Satan, Lucifer,
in the devil, you know, I believe in e g Oh.
I believe that ego is creates, you know, the Boogeyman
and wolf In and Dracula enough. But since I'm of
a spiritual adult, that stuff don't bother me. You know,
I never seen the Exorcise, and I don't want to

(01:29:08):
because I don't. I don't want to soult my my
subtle nerves watching stupid movies that that people sell to
sell you fear. There see, not people selling you fear
in every channel already, you know. So I go when
I when when when I When I'm thirsty, you know,
when I'm thirsty, I go to Coltrane immediately, and Miles

(01:29:31):
on the corner, you know, on the corner is like, man,
it's you know, it's what's New York City on the
court right now?

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Oh wait, there's one question I do have to ask
you about your your seventies catalog. One of my favorite
record of yours is uh boar boor letter.

Speaker 7 (01:29:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Now for for that period of your life, what is
what is the creative process that leads to the crafting
other songs? Is it just you guys jamming? Like is
it done Bitch's Bruce style where you just play whatever
is in your heart and then you edit later Like
I don't I'm not certain who does your editing or whatever?

(01:30:14):
Like you're whoever your t O is, like, is it
is it pre planned? Our songs pre written or are
you guys just jamming like spontaneously.

Speaker 7 (01:30:25):
We just jammed spontaneously.

Speaker 6 (01:30:27):
We didn't have the knife yet, so we never knew
how to edit back then, you know. And I take
pride in saying, most of the stuff that I ever
done is the one take. If I got to if
I got to go to the second or third take,
let's go to another.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Song, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:30:44):
So so the one take allows me to feel confident
that I called and Doogu to play drums, and Stanley
Clark and our mom Paassa and airto you know. And
because I can read how people look at you. Man,
if they don't want to be in the room and
they don't feel like they want to play with me,
then they won't. But I can see when somebody says,

(01:31:05):
this is going to be interesting. Let's see what Santana
want to go? You know, do do do do do
do do do do the damn. So I'm thinking Pharaoh Sanders,
you know, I'm thinking the things that I love, man,
Pharaoh Sanders, weather Report, you know. And so when we
when we hit it, I just we just gave him

(01:31:27):
a little sketch of uh of a clue and then
we hit it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
Okay, So that said, how are you able to miraculously
at least engage in the patience factor with your respective
label bosses, with Clyde Davis and with Walter Yett in
a cough in terms of sticking to your artistic vision,

(01:31:56):
artistic vision and not giving into what I'm clear that
every time you play them, this is the final album
where they're telling you, please just one, just just work
with this one songwriter so you can have a top
ten hit. Please just one more, please one you know,
but evil ways or whatever like how because these these

(01:32:19):
albums are closer, it's closer to on the corner live
evil bitches brew like you're in that creative zone. So
how are you able to sustain that that magic at
least for the two decades that you were with UH,
with Sony Columbia Okay, with.

Speaker 6 (01:32:40):
The exception of Clive and Bill Grant in a Chris
from the gentleman who produced Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
Marley, right, Okay, so Chris Black.

Speaker 6 (01:32:54):
Black Okay, with the obsession a few brothers like that,
while people like Walter, Yeah, I don't know where sad Faid,
I don't care so what people like that. I have
an attitude that I say, I'm going to be here
long after you're gone, okay, because I seen nine of
you come and go. I'm still here, you know, and

(01:33:15):
so I'm going to do what I'm going to do.
And you can either uh. And I went to this
stuff with Donnie Roner and a bunch of a bunch of.

Speaker 7 (01:33:26):
CEO.

Speaker 6 (01:33:26):
So whatever you know, because I tell and I tell
him straight up. Man, there's artists and con artists, and
I know who I am and you know who you are.

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:33:40):
I don't have to say let me do this, because no,
I'm just saying I'm going to do this. And if
you don't like it, well then I just be here
and with another record company, you know, And you can
talk to my lawyer and Bill Graham or whatever you know,
but you have to have a certain conviction determination that
you're bigger than the company.

Speaker 5 (01:33:59):
Oh damn, y'all hear that?

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Dude? Man, this this might have to put Matthew Knowles
in second place. I mean, I respect, this might be
this might be my all time favorite interview.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
That's such an education and so many subjects.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
Thank you, no, no, please? Why the p r S.
I feel like the woodstock was the s G and
the Gibson stuff, and you're so defined by that sound
of the pr S. Why why is that?

Speaker 7 (01:34:32):
Because it stays in tune and it seems really good
the SG.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
I wanted to be a bigger answer than that. But
if it's just that, that's cool, Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:34:40):
The SG neck, That's what I was saying that it
was like playing an electric snake because it was like
it was moving around like a snake when I was
playing it, and you see me making ugly faces. I'm
trying to make it stand still, you know, because that
because the neck of the guitar is literally moving kind
of like this. So so so I used to out
of tune a lot, and so I said, man, I

(01:35:03):
need to have one more time.

Speaker 7 (01:35:04):
I need to have confidence.

Speaker 6 (01:35:06):
That my guitar is going to behave So I stopped
playing the sge's because the neck wasn't conducive to being
in tune as I wanted to.

Speaker 7 (01:35:14):
So I got the less pole, and after the less pole,
I went to Yamaha.

Speaker 6 (01:35:17):
And after Yamaha, I went to Paul rees Smith came
to me and very graciously said, hey, man, I made
this guitar, but right now, everything else the guitar player
he belongs to heart. You know, there's the group hard
but I'm going to send it to you for a
week and you can't have it. You can just play
it and if you like it, then I'll make you one.

(01:35:37):
And so I love people with conviction and determination, and
I liked it so much. I've been with him since
seventy eight, seventy nine.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
How many access do you own? Or is that just.

Speaker 7 (01:35:54):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:35:55):
It's in the gajillions story.

Speaker 6 (01:35:57):
No, no, no, I on's they gets through like fifty
I get rid of them and I get I donate them,
you know, to feed people here in Las Vegas, or
to do this for schools like you were saying, you know,
or hospitals or whatever, because uh, I don't want to
pay insurance on something that I don't play.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Then think about it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
Damn, now you're making me feel bad.

Speaker 4 (01:36:21):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
I'm still keeping my drum sets.

Speaker 8 (01:36:25):
How do you navigate with the culturally or with the
African continent. It's so interesting because I'm wondering, like with
all the different sounds, all the different cultures all the
different countries. And mind you you you're dealing with other
cultures and stuff outside of the continent. But how do
you navigate and through finding and discovering sound in that
huge continent?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
And have you navigated it fully? Do you feel like
you have?

Speaker 7 (01:36:47):
Thank you for asking that.

Speaker 6 (01:36:49):
Yeah, it's my favorite subject in music, which is the drums.
The drum is the best. If you would, I swear
to you, if we would just make it possible for
the drums to be in the hood of Pabela, the
barrio and the shanty towns, you know, you wouldn't need psychiatrists, therapists, anlins,

(01:37:10):
pips or drug dealers, you know, because once you play
the drums.

Speaker 12 (01:37:14):
Being kink competing kink, once you get into it, it's
like you said, your DNA you remember that is the language,
the language of light, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:37:29):
So I would remind doing we brought the.

Speaker 6 (01:37:32):
Quest a mission, you know, to bring the drums back
to the hood. We close up as we close up
the parks, you know, and with the fences, and we
put police in there. One way in, one way out, okay,
and you get a ticket when you come in and
you have a gun, you get a ticket.

Speaker 7 (01:37:51):
You know, they put it. You know, we put the
gun over there, and we'll give you a ticket, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:37:55):
And there's like about fifty sixty drums and badass drummer player.
And then you have one drummer conga player dressed up
like a police you know, so so they can feel comfortable,
and he's playing his ass up, you know. And so
one after that, not only have that they're playing. You
say to them, okay, man uh if before you go,

(01:38:15):
if you like the drum, you can take the drum,
leave the gun. So we call it drums for guns, okay.
And once we have enough guns, we melt them and
we turn them into this beautiful angel.

Speaker 5 (01:38:30):
With a frow, you know, beautiful angel with a frow
with a.

Speaker 7 (01:38:42):
Frow in Congas in Congus. You know, I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
You just had a download right now. Man, Hey, it's
in the world now drums drums for guns. I might
have to do that. I might have to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:57):
That sounds like an initiative, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:39:00):
Invitation, And it's an invitation to do something that the
police need to have. Because once we get the drums
and people and we say we go to the mayor
and say we need for you to allow the drums
to be played from eleven in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
New York needs this bad.

Speaker 7 (01:39:17):
You know. And and and in certain parks where people
can just.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
This is an issue right now in New York City
because because of gentrification, a lot of spots in Brooklyn
that I mean those parks that those parks that uh
you know that were known for their Sunday Saturday all
day drums.

Speaker 8 (01:39:43):
The next parksne has been stopped.

Speaker 9 (01:39:47):
Yes, in Prospect Park they stop that. Well, yeah, I
think we still have our drum circle Prospers.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
You have it. But I'm seeing a lot of like
you know, the first instance of carringing, always complaints of like.

Speaker 8 (01:40:02):
That's happened all over the country. It already happened in
d They turned the park from.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
Why you asked the question before I got to ask
my follow up question with your guitar is is there
a seminal guitar that you'll always keep, like your woodstock
guitar or your are you sentimental with with with your
your children or it's just like you know, what you get,

(01:40:29):
you get and then the rest just wind up in
storage or you give them away.

Speaker 6 (01:40:34):
I got two three main quarterbacks, but I'm not attached emotionally.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
You too, Kirk, Yeah, No, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:40:47):
I don't let sentimentality or my ego tell me that
I can't do it without this. No, I can grab
any guitar as long as the stays of tune and
and it sounds like you know, just like you.

Speaker 7 (01:41:02):
You're going to sound like you and your drums.

Speaker 6 (01:41:03):
Cindy's gonna sound like Cydy on her drums, although she
prefers gredge only.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
I see, I see.

Speaker 9 (01:41:12):
I'm today just just to get into the mood for tonight.
It's been a long time, but I listened.

Speaker 7 (01:41:20):
To Europa.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Earth's Cry Heaven Smile.

Speaker 9 (01:41:27):
Way back, even before I met the Roots. That was
like a song that I would always go to for
inspiration and still remains an inspiration to this day for me, I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Haven't heard a long time.

Speaker 9 (01:41:40):
I listened to today on the subway, and I kid
you not, I'm sure it has a lot to do
with things in this life.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
I'm growing you. But I wept. I wept openly on
the subway listening to that song.

Speaker 9 (01:41:55):
So I thank you for that moment. And the other
side of that, I want to know what h what
guitar was that what what app what do you remember?
What combination was? This is the version that was from Moonflower.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
Okay you remember, yeah it was.

Speaker 6 (01:42:15):
It was the last poll that Neil Shawn and I
got at the same time at Don Weir's music shop
that was kind of like the Manny's of San Francisco,
and I was fleeing. I was playing to a twin,
straight up, straight up to a twin, you know. But
the song, the melody came from watching somebody next to me.
She was she was she was gonna have a bad

(01:42:36):
acid trip, you know, and so she was starting to
freak out and get her get get like a little
not little, a lot, really really paranoid.

Speaker 7 (01:42:45):
So I went, Bam, do do dude, The mushroom Ladies
coming to town. So it's a song about a mushroom lady,
which is a shaman.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:42:57):
I never put the lyrics on it, but my face
everyone is got to Barbieria.

Speaker 7 (01:43:01):
He got to Barberia and played an incredible version of
Oh yeah he My mother told me, I don't want
to hurt your feelings, but I like his version better
than yours. I said, thanks a.

Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
Lot, Mom.

Speaker 4 (01:43:15):
Wow, did you ever play with Gatto?

Speaker 6 (01:43:18):
Yes, yes, we played in Chicago and uh we played
a couple of times. Man, he knew I love him,
I adore him. I adore him. And Pharaoh Sanders they
both got that sound.

Speaker 7 (01:43:32):
You know that sound.

Speaker 6 (01:43:34):
But hey man, before I leave, I do want to
let you know that I'm going to invite you to
please know that I'm going to do my best to
put this thing Jubilation an album for sany chirak only,
you know, with the baddest guitar players out there. And
I'm and I feel really really enthusiastic about it. You know,

(01:43:55):
when you feel enthusiastic, you get a lot of energy.
So I want to honor and celebrate my brother Sonny
shir Rock because I totally adore him.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
Thank you, so thank you, thank you for doing our show.
You dropped a lot of knowledge on us. Yeah it
was and you know we're we're gobsmack because this is
totally out of the format that we've ever done this show.
But thank you forever you drop knowledge. And now I
want to drop something question.

Speaker 6 (01:44:29):
Look Supreme, we all drop a yes, yes, put John
and left Supreme and you be all right.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
I believe that.

Speaker 8 (01:44:39):
Can I just apologize to everybody, because this should have
happened a while ago.

Speaker 2 (01:44:43):
But Carlo's true story.

Speaker 8 (01:44:44):
I saw you and Cindy and Cafe Gratitude down the
street from my house like about a year ago, and
I froze and I couldn't speak.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
So I'm glad everything happens for a reason.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
It's always big up.

Speaker 8 (01:44:54):
To Leo and Aaron for making this happen, because make
sure it happened a little sooner. But y'all look amazing together.
It's just a beautiful rock and roll fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
Ladies and gentlemen. This is a quest love Supreme Kirk,
thank you, thank you for joining us. Pleasure, Pleasure Captain.
We will see you on the next go round. Thank you, yo.
What's up? This is fante. Make sure you keep up
with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know

(01:45:27):
what you think and who should be next to sit
down with us.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right, peace.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
M west Loft Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

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