Tevin Campbell

In a rare conversation, TC speaks with QLS about meeting his idol, Whitney Houston, working with Prince and overcoming the pressures of child stardom. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quesch. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio,
Ladies and gentlemen. What's up? This is question Love another
episode of course Love Supreme. Here with my my crew,
my team Supreme in the house. Uh like, yeah, how

(00:22):
are you? That's good today? I am doing you waiting?
Was here first? A right, yeah, it was here first.
I didn't waiting on this one, man, I know how
you Steve. How's life? I'm doing great? Life is great.

(00:43):
I love this podcast. I love you and I love
you too. Absolutely Yeah. Colder man, colder man. It's one
for the record books. Man, I'm good man, I'm good
on chilling. I'm really excited about this episode today. This
is gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah. You know,
I was thinking about it this morning and I realized

(01:04):
that this podcast is probably the antidote to my Instagram account, which,
of course, you know, my Instagram account could be another
person's obituary. It's like, you don't like my Instagram? Is
you don't want to be on that Summer Champ screen?
Like will I be there next? Is he gonna be
right about me? You know? Next? And the life I
lived and you know my death? But you know, Fonte

(01:27):
actually brought up a point, you know, sometimes we just
need to give people their flowers, and I think it's
rather I think it's rather apropos that we're taping this episode,
especially after what I dubbed the Versus Comedy Hour. I
honestly feel like if there ever was a paradigm shift

(01:50):
or a kind of kind of uh see change and
just in the process of what art is, you could
probably say about our guest today it was probably the
last Mohican Um. And this is not to you know,
this is not too you know, call out other singers

(02:11):
that came after our guests and whatnot. But I just
feel as though just the level of of taking your
craft seriously, especially for black music, is you know, it's
it's I feel as though it's it's kind of in
in danger or at least at least in the def
Con five situations, if you if you know, y'all just

(02:35):
gotta read between the line. Like our our our guest
today is definitely master master vocalists. I mean, he's been
our favorite for so long and we've been dying to
get him on the show. Um, without further ado, ladies
and gentlemen, please welcome freaking Kevin campbell Is on question
of supreme honored to be I actually thought this was

(03:07):
I don't know why. I just thought you'd be unobtainable
or just not interested in doing it. I don't even
know how we started. I think I just you know,
shot my shot, and the d M S is like, yo, yeah,
just we got you know, like you sent a text
like I got it. Yeah. I didn't even make answer.
I was just like, he's not going to answer. First

(03:31):
of all, we know each other. We run into each
other all the time, right, good years and uh no,
I don't usually do interviews and stuff like that, but
you know what, quest thank you man, thank you. I'm
really honored. I'm honored you. Ain't you a family today? Bro?
We just talking. We're just talking, so let's go. You
know what, you know, it's weird. Okay, so when I

(03:54):
was looking up just like your basic information, it's kind
of weird how perception is, you know, like throughout the
years because like okay, me sitting in the movie theater
watching Graffiti Bridge, like watching you act, or just like
even on the freshman tip, like generally just knowing you,
like whatever your videos or whatever I think in my

(04:15):
mind from this from this perspective me as a fifty
one year older, I would say like probably like twenty
almost thirty years older than him, And it's so weird.
How like, I know you were born in seventy six,
which basically you're just five years younger than me. But
it's so weird. Like at twenty, I felt you were

(04:36):
like like in my mind, I'm like, oh, he must
have been four years old or five years old, even
though you're just five years younger than me, because he
was living a grown ass life. Remember, we was like, wow,
look his life must be awesome. Yeah, So it's just
weird how like we're actually like closer in age and
peer wise. But I don't know. My perception back when

(04:57):
I was twenty was like you were way, way, way
goer than me, which is now it's like, okay, you're
kind of four or five years younger than me, which
is kind of like we're the same age. No if
a lot of people say that, But I think that's
the power of the childhood started phenomena, you know. I mean,
to this day, I get you know, people come to

(05:18):
me they're like, you know, oh you're Timmy Campbell, but
you look older. You have great hair, you know, like
everyone to be, but that's just the way the brain works,
you know, like people were introduced as a child, everybody's
going to especially if you made some sort of impact.
You know. I was blessed to have made an impact
as a kid. People remember that, and so to this

(05:39):
day I get that same thing. So you're not the
only one. Thank you again for doing the sport. Were
you talking to us now? From where where are you?
I am in New York? Well, first of all, do
you what what was your first musical memory in life? Uh?
My aunt giving me the Amazing Grace album to read

(06:01):
the Franklin Mazing Grace album on the vinyl. She gave
that to me when I was I think I was.
That was the first album that I listened to continuously. Uh,
I think I was maybe eight or nine. She gave
it to you. So her version of Holy Holy is
just like, come on, man, what we're talking about. Her

(06:22):
version of Amazing Grace is incredible. I mean though the
song was written by Amon, I didn't know that two
years after a couple of years ago I learned that.
But anyway, she makes it like, yeah, yeah, it does,
it does. What was it like for you to see
the film version of that after having lived with it

(06:42):
so long. You mean you mean the her refs film version.
She you know, when she was alive. She they tried
to bring it out maybe like you know, like twenty
years ago, and because of some sort of contractual dispute,
she didn't allow it, so of course she had to
pass away. Were you able to see the documentary or
the concert the film which the Amazing Grace the Live

(07:06):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I sorry, Yeah. I thought
it was beautiful in a point in her life where
she was very happy, and not that she wasn't happy
in any part in her life, but she was glowing,
and she was she had this afro and it was
just beautiful, man, And you know, seeing her in her element,
I think it was the most beautiful thing. I think

(07:26):
that people were touched by seeing that film because you
don't a lot of people don't know that she sat
and played the piano piano a lot of the songs
that she did and a lot of songs on an
Amazing Grace albums. Was to see her sitting there in
her element, playing the piano and singing, it's just amazing
all the time. So that was that most people don't
know that she's like just as good as a piano player.

(07:48):
She is the second. Yeah, it's important for people to
see that. So can you tell me about your Where
were you born? I was born in Dallas, Texas hospital. Yes, okay, okay, yes, yes,
I'm a country board trying to hide an accident. But
it's actually gonna start coming out. This my first class
of one. So once I get up the second class

(08:08):
of wine. But well, I'm one guy. Let me go
get my box and trying to start. No problems, all right,
So you grew up in Dallas. Just in general, what
was your you know, your formative years, like as far

(08:30):
as like how you discovered music and did you discover
it with that album or were you coming out the
wound singing it? Oh? No, I was my mom, I
was coming out the world saying I was singing since
I was three years old. Mom, I said, I used
to go up to the speaker and just hold my
hair up to the speaker and sort of like just
imitating anything that was coming out of speaker. I was

(08:52):
into cars and singing. I remember when I was a
little I used to run my hands on the side
of cars, like my hand was a car that was high.
In factuated, I was in cards and singing was just
a part of my I didn't That was just what
I knew how to do. I mean, you know, people
would give me fifty cents or a dollar or two
dollars the same for them. You know. That was I

(09:12):
didn't think of it as uh anything particularly specially. It
was just something that that, uh was I just not
doing since you know, I could see the effect I
had on people, But I grew to love it as
I grew older. I didn't really it was just a
part of me. It was just something that I could do.
I didn't see it as a talent or anything like that.

(09:34):
I was. It was just I was a kid. How
old would you say you were? When? What? What age
do you consider you actually starting your your craft? Well,
it definitely wasn't while I was a kid. It was
it was I didn't see it as a craft. I
just I was just doing what I knew how to do.

(09:56):
I didn't see it as something. I took it for granted,
I was a kid. So did your mother see it first? Then?
Is that what happened? My mom grew up singing also,
so you know, she she yeah, she saw it. She
saw it for everybody saw it. But like I like,
like I said, like, you know, I did talent shows
at school and stuff like that, But I didn't walk

(10:18):
around like thinking that I wasn't good. I didn't. I
was just singing like it wasn't something special it was
I wasn't Uh, I didn't consider a special like did
everyone know, like like were you waking up at like
out of sleep like sing for the people? Or I
think I was thrown into the business so fast that
like so early that um, I didn't really get a

(10:40):
chance to to understand like talent. Not that I didn't
really understand with that man. I was just doing something
that I love to do, right, I didn't I think
that I was talented because of it at the time.
I didn't understand with that man. I didn't understand with
that man until probably well when I started with Quincy
and and started singing for Quincy and like I realized

(11:03):
who he was because I didn't know where I met him.
I didn't know who he was, but didn't you know
Saravan and Ella Fitzgerald, all these people. I started to realize,
you know, I knew I could sing I just didn't
think of it as uh, it was just something that
was just a part of me. That's probably good. I
think it was a good thing for your first talent show.

(11:25):
Do you know what you say? Oh my god, I
did Whitney Houston The Greatest Love of Volume was absolutely
god awful because it was too high and I was
so I was so nervous and I was shaking the
whole time I was singing it. And my coach did
p coaches like, dude, why did you sing it so high?
I was like I wanted to do in the original key.

(11:45):
I was like nine years old, you know. I don't
know if you call it a modulation. Uh, it was.
It was horrible. It was horrible. I wish that was
somebody recorded that. But yeah, that was bad. I wasn't
good at talent shows or anything like that. I wasn't
good at that. But that was your good too song.
Oh yeah, Whitney. Whitney was my co to artists when

(12:07):
I was growing up, all intoto my adulthood, young adulthood
and everything. She was one who was like the three
artists that are your north stars as far as like
who at least when you're singing that you're gravitating towards
them besides Whitney. When I was younger, I definitely gravitated

(12:28):
toward towards Whitney. Everything I did it was Whitney. I
literally idolized the lady, her stage movements and everything it was.
She was literally everything to me. But now it changes
every couple of years, and I discovered new singers like
Patsy Clin to me is one of the best singers
like she her voice moved me more than a lot

(12:51):
of other voices that she would think would move me
more than hers. You know what I'm saying. Like I
told my brother Patsy client she could say, he was
like she, alright, she didn't do no risks and nothing,
and she's just staying in one tone. But it's not
it's not all about that. It's about what it's behind
the boys, you know. I hear all of that. I'm
very sensitive to that. So, but Donny had the way

(13:12):
Arita Franklin and Whitney Houston definitely under three O what
is it? Because I find that as an interesting answer.
I actually I I like singers who sort of don't
come out the gate flexing. I mean nothing against Christina aguilar,
but you know she goes from zero to auto bond

(13:33):
in like one two seconds. You know whatever. But you know,
I just for you, though, what is it? Because I
often like singers that have that ability, but often hold
back what they have because I think that's a gift
to to to sort of sing it flat and then

(13:55):
you know, sort of rise to the occasion. What is
it about a singer like Patsy climate you look for it?
Like when you hear a singer, how do you know, okay,
they have a good voice, or what is it that
you Is this something scientific that you can actually explain
or is it just like what you feel? Yeah, well,
it's not all about what you feel. And it's not
all about how good they sing. It's about how they

(14:16):
interpret a song. Every song is not meant for runs
and things like that. So being a great singer is
not all about how your voice sounds when you're singing
a song. It's about how you're feeling a song and
how you're living the song as you're singing a song.
I could name you a couple of the singers that
have actually great technical voices, but they're not good at

(14:37):
excluding the emotion and the in the life of the song,
you know, So it's there's definitely some science to that.
For me, it's like the Mary versus Faith argument, Like
Faith is technically like the better singer. And I'm putting
that in the quotation marks. But Mary the material Mary,
Yeah you feel married? Yeah? I would. I would, totally.

(15:00):
I would. I wouldn't say that one is better than
the other one, but I would say that Mary is
definitely more raw, didn't Faith. Um, it's just like, uh,
I mean, and I can, like I said before, I
can name you various singers that have these amazing voices
but displayed no emotion. I and you know, it's it's

(15:21):
not something that you learned. It's something that you embody
and you don't have to actually have went through these
songs such the subject of the song. It's just about
how you take it and make it your own. It's
like an actor does when he plays a role. You
know what I'm saying. You have to take it and
use it in a way that you can understand it.

(15:43):
All right. So I have a question, um, now that
I know that you live in this area, asking are you, uh,
you know, are you familiar with the barrow of Harlem
specifically a a restaurant called uh Brett Rooster. And I'm
only specifically asking because if you are a New York
resident and you decide to go to Red Rooster on

(16:07):
a Sunday, they kind of do something very different up there.
I think they're now doing something different with like a
gospel choir, but like the first five years of that
restaurant often jazz flout is Bobby Humphrey, you used to
host kind of the Sunday Brunch Day, which it's kind
of cool, but it's also a thing where you know,

(16:28):
if you're like knee deep and smothered chicken or something,
she'll have a microphone in front of your face, like
you know, like Dinah Ross like put you on the
spot to saying reach out and touch someone's hands, and you're,
oh God, Bobby Humphrey is like, am I facing it
with a microphone. I believe that I heard the story
that when you were younger, she's the one that sort
of started the ball rolling. He explained, like her her

(16:52):
position in your life because you know, for a lot
of hip hop fans, Bobby Humphrey, Yeah, the Myzelle Brothers,
like the seventies Blue Note Catalog many of hip hop
samples have come from her. Um. First of all, were
you familiar with who she was when you first met her?
Was just like, oh, this lady was in the business
once and no, I was eleven. I didn't. I was eleven, Okay,

(17:15):
I know who she was. So what happened was her
brother were and my mother were good friends. I think
they went to work together at the post office and
my mom work at the post office. Uh. He knew
I could sing. So she lived in here in New York.
And he called her up on the phone and not
singing for on the phone, and I think it was

(17:36):
you bring me Joelan Beg the Baker And she had
this club called Sweetwaters and in New York, and she
flew me out, and uh, I wore this white tuxedo
code and this tex and it's bow tie. And I
was eleven years old. And I did once twice, three times,

(17:56):
I think by Howard Hewitt. I think that's the song
I did. No, They're not kiss you? That was Howard
he was twice. That's the ship good time that was.
I was in front of all these grown people drinking
at this club, and I did, I think, And you

(18:19):
had no idea. No, but I knew the songs though.
That's what I meant about saying before, like you you know,
uh so anyway, yeah, Bobby on free and she shot
and she sent that video tape to like numerous record
companies and U numerous. I mean I meant everybody, Austin,
I meant everybody. Kenny Gee was arrested. He gave me

(18:42):
a saxophone. Anyway, wait time out, there's you got You
gotta understand the type of show that this is, like,
we're we're less about We're less about like gotcha journalism
and more about like the craft of of how your
art is. So we're kind of ner Yeah, we're kind

(19:03):
of into that nerd sort of stuff. So you're you're
basically saying that you were eleven at the time, and well,
I know you got your deal with twelve, So basically
took a year to get that ball rolling. Yeah, because
we went We've met a lot of different people, and
Quincy was a lot. He was the one that got me. Wait,
first of all, why did he give you a saxophone?

(19:25):
I don't even I don't even get the Kenny g
home game at least a start something he gave me
a saxophone that you know. I think that's probably when
I started to realize, you know, because I know who
he was. I knew that I knew that song and
he had a huge hit at the time, and right, yeah, yeah,

(19:47):
so it was really cool and anyway, yeah, so she
she she was the reason why I I was sign
to west Warder Bros. I mean, she was the reason
why that tape got to Poincy. That was the tape
in Quincy. Actually saw him, he was like, yeah, but
Sims kids, wow, actually been in Medina saw at first.

(20:09):
And then so can you walk us through the process
or at least what you remember the process of, Like
I assume first coming to l A and meeting these people,
like you know, you're meeting all these legends, um, and
I'm certain that you wouldn't know half of them. Who
who's the first person that made an impression on you? Like,

(20:31):
I know who this person and I can't believe I'm
meeting them as opposed to like Sarah Borne, who are you? Right?
Michael Jackson was the first person that I've met that
like I knew who he was, but not even it
wasn't even Prince, you know, Princeton. Really the prince was,

(20:52):
but I knew who he was, you know, But Michael, Wow,
Michael Jackson, you know what I'm saying. All Right, wait,
I have a Back on the Block question and and
hopefully you go off for just a tiny bit of insight,
because I don't even think we asked this on the
Quincy Jones episode that's never ever coming out. We we

(21:13):
talked to We talked to Quincy for four hours in
Quincy real Quincy is speaking of so we no, no, no, no,
it's not no, no, it's not even salacious. It's not
even salacious. But I pretty much I think we all
basically know that he was the missing link on Back

(21:38):
on the Block as far as not being on the
Secret Garden. And you know, I'll be sure told us
that you know that Michael was supposed to be on
Secret Garden instead, I'll be shut got the spot. Were
you at all, Privy two the situation in eighty nine
when he might show up might not show up that

(22:01):
you Plice sort of kind of share, I was a kid. No,
I didn't know anything about that none, trust me, if
I did I tell you, But I was I was
a kid. I was just in awe everything. So you know,
there there's a curious moment on BT where Quincy and
Sarah Vaughan are sitting with um Donnie Simpson and you know,

(22:25):
as as a person that often talks like inside baseball
to like people like I could say something one of
my band members that none of the audience would know anything,
and I guess Donnie Simpson and asked like, well, why
isn't Michael Jackson on the record, And Sarah Voln sort
of shot a look at Quincy and said something encoded
speak and Quincy and heard just started laughing, and you know,

(22:47):
like Donnie's like, let me in on the joke. He's like, no,
it's best we not do that. So, you know, I
just generally wanted to know if if you don't know,
I mean, I do know that there was a falling
out between the two. That's all I know. I'm just
glad you was able to be a kid. Well it
wasn't a normal childhood, but I was. We were able
to to be Uh it's chief, it's cheapers sometimes, but

(23:11):
it was mostly working. So you know that's what I did.
Because you were out of the classroom setting about this time,
right like as a kid. Yeah, well I went to
a private school. I love what you said at private school.
All right, I did say that. I said that very
I went. I went to a private school. No, it

(23:34):
was not like when I moved to l A. I
went to a private school and uh, but I was
never there. I was never there, So you weren't able
to have like bonding or just like regular bondy friendships
and stuff like that. Walk us through that because we
often hear like, hey, we had tutors or whatever. But okay,

(23:56):
so you're in school, which I assume met at the
age of twelve, you're kind of in the eighth grade,
maybe seventh grade or eighth grade. Can you walk us
through a daily ritual like do you have to show
up at eight in the morning. There's it, just it
was very rare that I was in school consistently for
like weeks and months. So, but the school that I
attended a lot of celebrity kids went to, So like

(24:21):
Rod Stewart's Starter and all the Jackson all the Jackson
kids went there, and Rashida and Kadada everybody went there.
So it was one of those one of those private schools.
But I was a kid from Texas, so this was
this is new for me. But I was never there.
But when I was there, I got in trouble and
got detention every other day because I never came a uniform.

(24:43):
When I came a uniform, my tie wasn't done all
the way or my my shirt was untucked. I was
always causing problems at that school, but I was allowed
to because I was the boy U. Yeah. Yeah, like
he was just on Fresh Prince last week. Calm down.

(25:04):
Oh wow, keep showing that episode. It's really cool though
that they keep showing that. That's great. At the top
of this episode, when I was talking about being a
season singer at this point, is you know seth Riggs
a part of your exercise or I mean I would

(25:26):
assume that someone must have suggested, like, okay, you gotta
warm your voice up and all that stuff. Did you
Were you a student of of the great seth Riggs
as a vocal trainer? Oh? I mean I thought you did, now, Yeah,
I did go to seth Riggs where my voice was
changing to the point where I couldn't I could It
was like there was no control, like the puberty part

(25:48):
when that hit, so I had to literally do tell
me what you want me to do live and that's
when it hit. So I couldn't hit. So you started
loading the key, modulating the key down today. No, no,
we couldn't do that, not when you're not when you're
fourteen years Oh, you can't know the key. You gotta
do it, you know. So that's when I started. Yeah,

(26:09):
there's no thing I could do that. Now forty five,
you know it makes sense to lorder the key to that, right,
But when you're fourteen, no, So I had to go
to Seth Griggs for I would for the whole lot,
like a summer, because it was really bad. I had
no control over that break, and he talking how to
sort of control it. After that, there's no I didn't

(26:31):
go back to how many So when you're training how
many hours? What's the daily regiment? I mean how many hours?
Is it a day or is it just once a
week or well, first of all, you go into his
office and you do a whole bunch of exercises. So
you mean for me for a show or just for you?

(26:52):
When for you? Okay, Yeah, you just go in and
you just get you exercises to do for like thirty
minutes to pay for an hour to do an hour.
He used to charge like two thousand per hours. It
was ridiculous. It was something ridiculous. And he used to
talk as time, he used to talk after time. He
did that consistently. He was a great He was a

(27:14):
great teacher that I learned a lot from him that
I used to this day, like warm up exercises and
all cons for our listeners out there. Um, Michael Jackson's
two hour tutorial is still surprisingly still on YouTube, which
is basically two hours of hearing Michael Jackson do all
the skills. Yeah no, no, no, no, no no no,

(27:36):
like all the like. That's probably one of the greatest
vocal exercise educations that you can get for free. Uh
wild It's works and it works. I mean that's all said.
He was. He was an avid student. The set had
a lot of great a lot of great, um great clients.
But yeah, like I said, yeah, that stuff works, man,

(27:57):
may man at all that stuff works. All that stuff
it works. It's always doing. It's just you know, sort
of warming that out. You know, we were introduced to
you via back on the block. But when you were
when you were brought out there, did you immediately start
working on your debut album or was it just back

(28:20):
on the block. Let's see what happens first. Okay, now
you get a record deal or was it just like
out the gate, You're gonna work on your album and
subsequently get introduced from Quincy. I'm trying to remember thirty
years like well I was. I was twelve years old. Um,
I knew. I know that after the introduction to the Prince.

(28:45):
When being introduced, benbody To introduced me to Prince and
I did the computing bridge, round around, round around. I
know that he wanted to be on the first album.
I remember that, and one of the the others, uh word
of others would oh my god. It was all kinds
of crazy stuff. I'm glad you brought that up. Everyone

(29:06):
knows that I'm a prince stand and you know, and
also the Prince is what I call the orgers, the
Prince dot Orgers is sort of they always side I
me when I start you know, talking, my my, my,
my trash. Now, I mean this thing. Everyone knows that
he's my north star as far as creativity is concerned.

(29:27):
But you know it, it's to a lot of Prince
people that are very honest with themselves. They would also
know that that period was a rather questionable period of
his life. And I got to hear the p the
song that you you demo did he demo? And the

(29:48):
way that you're smiling right, I don't even remember. I
don't even remember doing that where to God tell you,
I don't remember where we were. I don't remember what
year that was, but all I was in the middle
of that. I was in the middle of that whole thing,
and that didn't stop until after I'm ready based on
what I can tell, because you know, I heard his

(30:10):
I heard his demo guide, and I heard your version,
and you literally followed everything to a t. So I
would basically say that if you're working with him, is
it just assume that, Okay, do exactly what I do
on this track and follow it to it? Is either
coaching you or is it just so? No, he's not.

(30:33):
It's just that's me. I wasn't very uh experiment a
lot when it came to him. I kind of sing
it like the demo. The only songs I drifted away
from the demo was sort of was can we Talk?
And I'm Ready? All those songs they face uh yeah,
and Tomorrow Night at all because it was just that's

(30:56):
Tomorrow was all me, that was me because it wasn't
it wasn't no bo close to that song. So she
wrote that literally in the studio. I was just gonna ask,
when you got Tomorrow as a fan of Whitney, did
you feel like that was kind of like your Whitney
song in a way? Did you remember how you felt
as a kid? I didn't think that then, but I
wasn't processed. My brain wasn't processed enough to think like
that tension because I was too I was too self

(31:19):
conscious in the studio. But I do think that sort
of now, like when I listened to Tomorrow and one song,
the sort of inspirational songs that I have a couple
that I do have. I have some more, but they're
not on my albums. But anyway, I do think that now. Well, eventually,
I assume that you got to meet her. What was it?
What was it like for you? Where do you meet her?

(31:44):
The first time I met Whitney Houston, she invited me
to her listening party or her after party with some
sort of party, but did the second time it was
just more personable, was when I we were It was
the hotel called the Riga Royal. She's now the London
for the contract. But are remember it was her Bobby

(32:04):
and I was coming out of my room and stuffing
and they were coming down the hall and we had
this whole long conversation. She was like, how you doing.
I was like, I do. How you dealing with the fight?
Bobby was there, you know, it was like it just
us to you didn't have any bodyguards everybody around him,
It was just us. Do you have the conversation? I
was like fifteen sixteen, and that was the last time
that I saw Whitney Houston. There was a second time

(32:26):
that I met her. I never knew her personally, like
we were never friends or I never called her, talked
to her phone anything like that. The only the closest
connection I had with her was the night of Michael
Walden Uh. He used to call her from the studio,
but I never talked to her. But he used to
call it from Steven let her here, because I used

(32:47):
to say, just I used to try to imitate her,
so he would let her. He would let her here,
like tell me which wanted to do and stuff like,
just like she never knew she never knew that you
were that she was your hero. Yes, oh yes, she
knew and it was too overwhelming for you to strike
a friendship. I was a kid, you know, but she
she knew, she knew that I freaking loved her. I

(33:10):
told her what I saw, especially at that time in
the hall. I mean, you know, it was her, and
I could never act normal when I saw these two women.
I remember seeing Aretha on Broadway. We were some Broadway show, right,
and she and she comes with these you know her
what she was with, and this ten just huge entourage. Yea.

(33:31):
And she knows me. I've seen her many times since
I was twelve years old. I even came to sing
for her. She invited me to sing Always in My Heart,
which was one of her favorite songs. She invited me
to sing that for her at some event. I think
it's a birthday party. And so I saw her and
I couldn't even leave. You know how you do this
this thing when you but you know, you know, you listen.

(33:56):
I couldn't even I just I couldn't eve and do that.
I couldn't do the the cheeks just touched. I think
she was like, what the hell is wrong with this?
But I was so nervous to even like like, but
she could tell. She could just she knows she ever
teached yourself. It's like, how's your mom? How's your mom?
She used to that she was I digress. Were you

(34:17):
able to bond with a circle of people, like who
would you consider? You know? Like, Okay, So when I
came in the business, then I became friends with common
and we became friends and started hanging Like did you
have peers that you regularly hung with? And no, because
I was twelve, so there was nobody else my age,

(34:40):
okay doing what I was doing in our minds, you
were real friends with Tatiana Ali in our teenage minds,
was like they were best friends. No, not really. We
we we we were friends. But you know, I hung
out a lot with the boys. Remember the group of
the boys. Oh my god, I can't yeah, okay, we

(35:06):
we we we broke a lot of lamps in the
hotel rooms and stuff. And me and my brother and
the boys used to hang out a lot, so the boys,
but I didn't bond with them like we were just so.
But but the uh, sixteen seventeen, eighteen nineteen, it was
years now, I was pretty much a loner. There was

(35:27):
there was a lot going on. There was a lot
going on. I don't think I even realized how much
what's going on until a couple of years ago when
I actually started to process everything. So, I mean, like
I said, I don't regret anything, but there's a lot
of they're more pros than there are cons to being
a child, a childhood star, former child star. You know
it's I mean, it's it's amazing. Uh. I think to

(35:48):
be able to say that and survived. How long, on
average does it take you to get through a take
where you're satisfied with it and the producers satisfied with it,
and all parties involved are satisfied. It depends. And they
used to call me one take tivan. I'm not I

(36:09):
didn't make that up. I did not make that up.
I swear to God. The Spade phase gave me the
name uh talk. I don't remember how many takes I did.
Can we Talk? It wasn't a lot back then. I
just went in and I hated actually beat in the studio.
I wanted to be in the streets. I wouldn't want
to play. I wanted to play. I wanted to go

(36:31):
driving around in my car and to be to day.
You know, it was like work to me. If I
had to do it more than three or four times,
you know, I was a brad so but with Bada Face,
it was all about the feeling. It wasn't about necessarily
the technicalities of it. But with Narda Michael Walden, it
was all about the the technicologies and the notes and

(36:52):
they can't be sharp and they can't and the feelings.
So you got that boat. So I think Narda really
I had the most fun working with him because I worked,
He made me work and I and I didn't warm
up really until this day. I don't warm up until
hours after I start singing, so you have to keep singing.
You know that. You know I had to learn that

(37:12):
about myself too, But Narda was the best. I had
the most nurturing working relationship. I think Narda. Okay, can
I ask a question is because you know, we've been
doing the show for five years and literally no singer
or at least singer singers has given me the dream
answer that I want to hear. It's like, yes, you know,

(37:35):
before I do a song, I sit and do me
maybe made me like three hours and trinck all this
tea and like everyone basically says, hey, man, I showed up,
I sang it, and then I went home. So is
is the idea of warming up just a myth that
non singers like myself think that artists has to go
through to do their craft, or like even for you Fante,

(37:59):
like even when you're doing your records, Like I think
it just depends on the song. I think if it's
you know, if it's something where because I've had takes
where you know, you'll write something and then sing it
and I'm like, Okay, this sounds cool, but I can
do it better, and then you'll come back and do
it quote unquote better. But there's just there may be
just some vulnerability in the first take because you're just

(38:20):
now learning the song you know what I mean, and
you don't know it know it versus singing it when
you know it. It may you know, it just may
not fit the song. If the song you're singing has
to have a hint of vulnerability or uncertainty, if you're
if that's the character you're playing quote unquote, then the
first take generally for me, you know those early takes,

(38:41):
that's kind of where the magic is. Once you get
to go back to what Tevin said, Once you get
like three or four times, at that point, you're just
just kind of regurgitating the same thing. It's it's kind
of like a rehearsal at that point, and the magic
is lost in my experience, once you overdo it and
keep going doing it. Yeah, yeah, you kind of sing
the life out of it, you know what I mean.
So a lot of times the first ones, those are

(39:02):
the ones, if they may not be the most technically great,
they are the ones that are the most honest and
may fit the song better. Is that kind of for Utevin?
Is that the same thing? What similar tax? Yeah? I
think you are right on that, and I think it
depends on the song. And because I'm actually the singer. Also,
every singer has this whole different way of approaching the

(39:23):
song and approaching performances. So some singers can walk into
the studio and give a great performance without you can
form it up, you know, I mean, there are singers
that can do that. There's a lot of excuse me,
there are a lot of songs in Aretha that she
did warm up. She just walked in and she just
did some people, you know what I'm saying. She won't

(39:44):
like that's it, and I don't think. I think that's
why it's always been. And she can do that, you know, Uh,
some singers can't do that, and she can deliver all
the things that need to be in the song and
those two takes. So but it's definitely those first takes,
I think. And I think if you ask a movie
director also, uh, for like Frank Sinatra didn't like to

(40:05):
doing more than one take on the scene. He liked
to just do it one take because he felt like
that was the most natural and the most real. Word.
You feel like if you over get it over and
over again, it would lose his magic. Like you said, so,
I agree. Your first album, which is the spelling of
your name. Was that supposed to be an acronym for

(40:26):
something TV or were you just spelling it? Or first
of all, what you say, what you say, transmitting every
vocal immaculately nigga right there on Twitter? It was like

(40:56):
it was somebody. It was on Twitter. This was like
Twitter like years ago. I think it was when you know,
I think somebody they tried to like come for you
something on Twitter and everybody was just like noun that
that seven Campbell and that was one of the things
I posted. It went off, I know what you're talking about,
but we had your back, No, bro, like we had
your back. I was like, oh it was really slick.

(41:24):
Let me go, let me go to the other side,
because let me go to the other side because I
believe YouTube were kind of the same age or yeah,
I'm seventy eight, so yeah we right, yeah, okay, so
what was it like seven six? So you you were
I am your man your ship in seventh grade? Man?

(41:49):
As a listener? Did that make an impression on you
to see someone your age doing that? I was say
with that, I saw the Jackson five or Janet like,
oh kids, my age, you know that. No, that's exactly
what it was. Yeah, even though like again we were
only with two years apart, he was older, but it
definitely felt like, uh, you know, he felt he felt

(42:10):
like one of the homies like I went to school with,
or like that homie that like sang in church and
you just know, okay, that's the singing homie and like
he's gonna win every time. He just don't you know
what I mean? Like it was like that, it's like
he go singing homie. They're just like gonna buy everybody
in the Talent Show and that's what it is. So
um yeah, the first album, Man, that was something that, uh,
it definitely felt like it was And I always talked

(42:32):
about this. For songwriters, it is very hard to write
for kids, you know what I'm saying, because you have
to write something that's age appropriate but also have something
that you know adults can jam to, you know, record
like a dial my Heart or Around and Round or
can we Talk? I mean those are really hard songs
to pull off, and I don't think people understand how

(42:53):
hard that ship is. What about us break it down? Yeah,
So that one that was the one like in home room,
like because they were playing on the radio like they
would playing that Joe the radio and it was almost like,
oh man, that Tavid Cammell joint And so in home
room we were talking about it. Yo, you hear the joint?
Do you have to school like some homework? Like Hey,

(43:17):
I like what, yes? Are you getting? Yes? I am yes,
but but you know I have why we're here while
we're on the first album. I have to say my
favorite one, like probably like my favorite if I had
to peak one, come on as Man Alone with you dude,
like what we're talking about, So for you on that

(43:40):
one broke So I did not know. I actually lost
a bet to this over this to a friend like
years ago, like she she wants she here's this this thing. Yeah,
she totally want. So I did not know I had
the album Casey and Joe George seeing backs on that. Uh,
they're still in the credits now the right. I don't know. Yeah,

(44:08):
they did all the demo on Stroll though songs, so
all the that I'll be produced. Casey and Joe Bill
did all those demos, which is why I'm singing all
those lick, all those run. That's not me. I'm doing
whatever they did on the demo. Do you still have
those demos? Oh my god. I wish you could. A mirror.

(44:31):
Always wish that maybe maybe Al has him. No, I'll
probably about has him a mirror. He got all the tape.
I thought. I thought he was gonna say, just asked
me to. I always thought that was a soundtrack, John,
but I didn't know that was on It was on
Boys in the Hood that they decided to put it
in in um on the album. I thought that was
interesting what you said, though, because Warner brothers didn't care

(44:53):
about that. They what they had was a kid that
could that have this. And I realize it now, I
didn't realize it back. It uh that had this voice
that was a mature voice that they could sell to
a whole bunch of adults. And and I was actually
and I think it's actually kind of cool that I

(45:13):
was being used as like amuse, like all these love
songs that you just got baby face and ands no.
But he was going through stuff with his wife at
the time. And so I realized now that they were
writing and I was saying their spirit channeling through you. Yes,

(45:36):
because I didn't know what about anything about that stuff,
Come on, tell me what you want me to do?
And and then that knowing that we were using it
to make out with cutting it on mix tapes. You know,
Listen along with you was a staple on my slow
Gem mix tape. Man, listen that record. Would never really

(45:58):
like your work with Albi Man, I gotta say like
that one goodbye, like man, I love I love that
stuff too. I think he did a great job. Like
on the first album, they had to have have been five
or six singles, correct, Yeah, I'm just goodbye. Tell me

(46:18):
what you want to do? Uh, round and round? Confused?
Got some one song? Like, there's at least six singles
off this joint. And so who was the ringleader that
said Okay, I'm like, I'm What I say goes as
far as like your head, is it Benny that's driving

(46:40):
the wheels? Excuse me? I really was. No, I'm telling
you the truth. I mean, Benny Medina was was the Yeah,
I mean I'm the when it got to choose the songs. Yeah,
they worked me, they sent me everywhere. So yeah, Warner
Brothers was responsible for. On the other side of that question,

(47:01):
are there any notable songs that were submitted to you
that you passed on that someone else took and did something? No?
I can't. I can't. No, not any famous, not anything
that you know. No, I took the hit I gotta go.

(47:21):
Are you Are you familiar with the us your story
with Okay? I think that's actually a true story. I
think that, uh, I think that's in l. A Read's
book for my understanding. I think L. A Read wanted

(47:42):
sure to have can We Talk? But he wanted me
to have can we Talk? And uh, but I had it,
and you know, I don't even listen, I love I
love him. I actually just uh did a gig with him,
okay in Atlanta. Yeah, Tyler Perry, So we at the
safe stage. I love USh, I always have loved Ushi. Well,

(48:06):
that was not why I don't That was not why
it was that you started. It's as a luminous over here.
Oh no, but I don't believe that. Can we can
we talk? First of all, it's a great so I'm

(48:26):
not saying that it's so well written. And I said
this on something else somebody asked me about it. I
could never I Got it Bad as one of my
favorite R and B m H ballots. It always has been.
I could never sing I got it bad like us. Shoot,
and I don't believe us you could sing? Can we

(48:47):
talk like I could? You know? Is you got it bad?
But that's okay. I know you ain't being shady. Okay, No,
it's it's yeah, you got it bad, you got it bad,
you gotta chick gotta bad. No. I know I wasn't
being shade, cause I do have a song called there
you Go. No, I swear to God, No, No, that
sound suck. No, there's nothing compared to know you got

(49:07):
it bad? But that was my favorite and it still
is one of my favorite RP songs about that. When
I hear it, I'd be like, okay, yeah, no, no,
no no, but anyway, yeah, And I read the thing
he said about the can we No it was my song.
Let me have it. I mean, you know, let me
have my song. It's my song, and that was your song.
That's your song, that's mine. So I'm blessed to have it.

(49:28):
It's a it's an amazing song. It it's crazy, it's crazy,
it's crazy, it's a beautiful song. And I love it,
you know, And I love that it's mine. And I
didn't used to be like this. I used to be like, oh,
I don't want to hear it, But now I listened
to it. I actually would listen to like, you know,
that's good. I'm actually embracing my uh my art, you know.

(49:51):
So I I'm very, very blessing honor to have that
song in my work. Question regarding your work with not
to Michael Walden, because two of the records that I
really loved on I'm Ready was Don't Sink Ofby Girl
and Brown Eyed Girl, Like, do you have any memories
of like recording those two I really, I really love
those records. Oh thank you. I co wrote brand out

(50:13):
of Girl. Hey, you know nartist. I remember he likes
to sit down and just start playing on the piano.
And he would just he just stay start singing whatever
comes to mind, to start saying. That's how we came
up with told me which one me to do. That's
how we came up with Brown Eyed Girl. Don't Say
Goodbye Girl was a song that he had written already.

(50:35):
Though I love don't see Goodbye Girl. That's the one
for Yeah, I love that song. That's one of my
favorite of my vocal performances. You know, I need stuff
because that's why, I mean, he works. He worked me
man like I had to work to get those notes.
You know what I didn't hear. Yeah, And there's no
kind of there's no sort of alterations or anything on that.
That's all me getting that out. Likes to do it again,

(50:57):
do it again. He would stop. You wouldn't get your break,
do it again, do the get do it again, do
it again. And coffee. That's how I got to pick coffee.
But anyway, we wait, let me ask you because the
Nor the norda Michael that I know because because of
his being Buddhists and everything. Is he like that? Is

(51:19):
he like that in the studio or visas, like he's
like any coming down and give you some feeling. Yes,
and he gets the all the instants in everywhere. Yeah,
that's it. I think it's the ultimate Jedi minad trick
because I know there's a there's another person who's a

(51:40):
Buddhist in my life and she has the ability. She'll
start here, but somehow she'll calm me down and she'll
talk very long, and then the next thing I know,
I'm talking, and I realized that's a Jedi mind trick.
So yeah, I always wanted to know with Norda, especially
that the fact at Narda has what I call going

(52:02):
into the lions, then, like you have to have a
level of social wisdom if you're producing a Refa and
Whitney Houston and like, you know, his his entire canon
of of people that he's produced, your singer singers, So
I know that he has to have some sort of

(52:22):
Jedi mind trick that gets you guys to trust him.
And I always wanted to know what that was, Like
it's his spirit, you know what you just described his
whole so when you walking to steel. That's the that's
the vibe that you get, you know, so you don't
mind working. But you know what it's It was the
coffee for me, and it was just him being cool.

(52:45):
And he would record all the sessions, so I knew
the Karen was right on me. So I would really
literally try to sound my best. You know. Oh he
would like video library. Yeah, don't say nothing now, but
y so I'm sure he did with me that way.

(53:07):
I'm shap are we definitely giving art the two man
you gotta get if she has some great stories. But
he creates an atmosphere in his student Tarpaing studios. It
really helps. Man, when you walk into the atmosphere, you're
ready to work, and he makes you believe that you
could do it better. You can do a better deal.
One more time, you can do it better. And do

(53:28):
you do it? Like, at what point in your career
as far as your your albums are concerned, where you
feel as though as an artist you have ideas that
you want to express and production that you want in
a certain sound that you want, like you are they
letting you get a word and edge wise or is

(53:49):
this still like here work with this person, here with
that person. And I had no interest in anything and
that sort. I was too busy trying to figure out life. Yeah,
and I had no time to figure out life because
I was working, so I didn't care. All. You know.
I got to choose the songs. That's it. I wouldn't
say anything about it like that. No one made me

(54:11):
sing anything I didn't like I had to last dive
on the songs. But as far as was trying to
say something or do it please, no, I didn't think
of anything like that. I mean, besides, like the radio
shows where they would do like a summer jams or
powerhouse where you come and just do your two joints.
Like did you ever have an actual touring experience at

(54:35):
least similar to the one um Like when you did
Round and Round on Arsenio Princess band was your back
up and actually it was perfect to me, it was,
But like, how often did you really get to go
out on the road with the band and and tour

(54:55):
and that sort of thing that did that happen at all?
Was it just like spot dates? Ye? I know that
that didn't happen a lot. So my mom didn't didn't
allow a lot of that stuff. She because I was
already traveling doing you have an option to say no,
I don't want it to work, because I would figure,
like in the nineties, you got a tour, right, His
mama had the option. My mom was she didn't play.

(55:18):
I went on one tour with Boys to Man in
Baby Face. I opened up for that tour and that
was for I think three weeks and that was on
my Christmas break, and that's my mom didn't allow. But
I was working so much already, I don't that's why.
I think that's probably why she didn't allow it. I
was always traveling promoting the album. Uh, but that's the money,

(55:40):
right is like the money though? Really right? Okay, it
wasn't the same as it was now. I mean I
don't think, uh, I mean it was No, I can't
think of Vidy and plus I was one of the
only kids doing it. But I think the boy groups
went on tour, so maybe like the new kids on
the Blocks and just new addition, they probably went on

(56:02):
to it. But it would have been hard to pair
you with someone, yeah, exactly. Yeah, but always because with
Tracy Spencer and Brandy Spencer would have been good. Yeahian
or something. Oh wow, she's pretty cool. I thought someone
told me that she does like, uh like spot commercials

(56:24):
where like I mean, you don't know that that's the
mom in the supermarket or that sort of thing. I
believe that that's like her lane Like she's done a
bunch of we did as they all knew each other,
right to me. Or I'm like, so, Tadman, you knew Tracy. Yeah,
but I really think that my mom. I know, my

(56:44):
mom was very protective with me when I was When
I was a kid in business, she didn't. You can
ask anybody, you know, she didn't. She was very protective.
So I was that she couldn't stop me from being
a past but when he came to like uh like
just working and she had to make shoe was gonna
be around me. And I had these people from Warner Brothers,

(57:08):
Carolen Baker and Jeans Shelton. It was always the ones
that would travel with me when she wasn't with me.
You know, she was very protective. So I think that's
probably a lot of the reasons why I didn't go
out on the tour. That would explain no hip hop collaborations.
I got questions about back to the World because to me,
that was such a shift at least working with with
with the Hitman and whatnot. Um, can you talk about

(57:30):
that experience with Back to the World. Yeah, that was
a confusing time of my life because, uh, I didn't
really understand what was going on with the whole Warner
Brothers situation. I didn't understand why why Back to the
World wasn't It was so sort of like they sort
of like you just forgot about me. But it's like

(57:52):
you had all the pieces in place at least I know,
Chucky did stuff on it, and and like the Hitman
Stevie j I don't you know, I don't know what
Puff's role is. As far as like he was there,
I'm not gonna he was. He was there, was there,
and and Puppy is great, we both scorpios and he

(58:13):
was there and then and you know, he wasn't there,
and then he was there again. So let's just put
it that way. But that wasn't that wasn't it. It
was there was just a shift in the whole Warner
Brothers makeup. So Booston, Hanks, Fan, Ray Harris, all those
guys left left was not on Black music anymore. It
wasn't no me anymore. It was on some other thing,

(58:34):
and so, I mean, and I didn't understand it at
the time. I understand it now it's a business, but
at the time I did not understand it. So that
was sort of a weird time for me. And so
I showed up at the photo session for that album
with twist twists and they're like, what the hell did
you do? I was like, yeah, I got twist. Yeah,
just just rebailing, you know, being mad. So yeah, that

(58:57):
was that was not a good time for me. My
favorite record on that album was the I don't know
if it was a single, but could it be like
that's still thank you? You have any memories of it
with working in the student with Rossan because he wrote
all that stuff. He wrote all that stuff. Did you

(59:20):
work with Keep Crouch as well or he was on
that album Keep Jay Jazz? Yes, it was a great
It was fun recording it. I had a great time
recorded the album. It was just when they were trying
to prepare for the release other album. I was trying
to rebuild against one brother. I'm like, in hindsight, did

(59:42):
you feel as though like you just wanted to break
because you've basically been doing this since you were twelve,
like without any breaks or whatsoever. Maybe that's what it
was subconsciously, Maybe I wanted to break I don't know,
maybe because there were three years between m Ready and
Back to the World, Like, what was what were you

(01:00:03):
doing in that? What was that? I love it? Ain't
nothing wrong with it. I had. I graduated high school
with okay, and I think we started probably recording the
ninety six I'm Ready came out of ninety three. Yeah, right,
so it was oh and then we got the Goofy movie.

(01:00:27):
I did a lot of stuff in between those, a
lot of soundtracks and a lot of stuff I did
between that. We're forgetting something. We're forgetting something, dude, can
you please talk about Black Men United? Yes? Yo, we yea.
We would have healed ourselves. There's always at one moment
when the interviews over where we're kicking ourselves because we

(01:00:49):
forgot to ask something. And I was like, I know,
we're forgetting something. Yeah, yeah, he's on the first you
sunk lead off on No, let's let's go man, Yeah,
you would know. I mean, yeah, I just remember the
video shoot again be in the past and I showed

(01:01:09):
up been the video shoot. I think I got into
an argument with somebody and and I left the video shoot.
That's why you see me in the booth on the
video by myself, not with everybody else. That that's another
after the fact. Yeah, but yeah it was bad. How
old were you? How old? How were you? I don't know?
What was that? Well, you came out nine, it was nineteen.

(01:01:37):
Such a brand. I was such a brand. But that's
a great song. That's a great song. I like the
live performance better than I like the record. But the
live performance, we're all on stage. So you guys did
at the American Music Awards, and did you do it
on Our Sinio as well? I don't think I remember
the American Music Awards. Yeah, yeah, I could be wrong

(01:01:59):
about Our Sin though. Okay, well I know I've seen
it once. So it's the thing where they just sort
of gathered all the people on that song at different
places and they did their parts. And it wasn't like
I left. I was gone. Yeah I left, I was
I was something else. I left. So I got into
with somebody because I was late, and I just left.

(01:02:20):
You got into it with somebody because you was late? Yeah,
I was it wasn't. It wasn't. Oh, I'm playing D.
I'm playing D. Don't don't keep mask. But somewhere there
held there who's been watching you from the jump, and
they're like, yeah, that stage in Taven's life wasn't my favorite.

(01:02:41):
He was a little bit of an asshole. There's somewhere
I had angels watching over me. I'm telling you that much.
But I was. I was a kid. I had to
I had a lot of authority. So yeah, you know,
when did you give kids the authority? Sometimes? So wait
to that question. It's interesting because you were. You were
one of the first of an era in that way.

(01:03:03):
So do do the other young guys who kind of
followed in your footsteps? Does anybody ever go do you
know what? Let me call Tevin. I know he's been
through this. I hope they don't like I don't have
any to you. Ain't got nothing for him. I have
nothing for him. You have to sort of go through life,
your whole life, and learn from me. Unless I'm under
rocks somewhere, it's not like you know. Of course, you

(01:03:28):
came right right before social media was even lucky for you. Yeah,
thank god. As my childhood on social media lord. I mean,
you know it's crazy. You know, the night is the
stuff we did back in the night. But anyway, sorry,
all right, I gotta ask, did you crash your car
or something? Oh? Yeah, I crashed it plenty times. I

(01:03:52):
didn't crash several cars. Oh wow, what was your first car?
Since you were a car person, what was your car fleet? Like?
What was your scar? Oh? Like, what was my first car? Yeah?
Because you loved them so much too. I only had
a couple of cars. It was the big long Recedings

(01:04:12):
uh oh, the West African Join the S five hundred
back then it was ninety two at the long grade. Yeah,
and I had we called him Nigerian business y coming
to America, dropping Joe fer Join. All right, my god,

(01:04:37):
y'all bring it back some crazy liberties right now myself
like art that John, I did some John driving and
all that stuff. Like I did bad things. I did
bad crash. They are so lucky, oh day. So I'm
only asking because like I just generally never just it

(01:04:58):
wasn't like you. I don't think that you were in
that Britney Spears Lane were sort of like, man, I
don't think he's gonna make it back, sort of thing. Yeah,
it wasn't like train Wreck. I don't remember, Well, she's white.
When you when you were white and in the business,
I didn't have to worry about paparazzi and stuff like that.
That's not something that I don't know. I'm not trying

(01:05:21):
to be racist or anything like that, but it's just like,
this is one benefits where being famous versus white. Yeah,
don't worry. Go ahead, sack, Steve, You're you're really on
the twelfth four right now. Yeah, he said they went
to the grocery store. Go ahead. I was gonna say.

(01:05:44):
This is probably the real situation where being black benefits you.
And the fact that if you were white, you were
probably have been one the globe what as far as
the mentor is concerned, Like who would you say, was

(01:06:06):
there anyone that could get through to you, like as
far as being a mentor a quincy figure or whatever.
M at that time though, what you're listening to Miss
Rond or your mama. Yeah, And then when I didn't,
I felt on my ass hard too, So my mom

(01:06:28):
was pretty much on a person like you. That's kind
of the lesson that I'm learning now, Like oftentimes the
universal life will present a situation to you in which
you can either heed the call or continues, you know,
sort of be hardheaded. And oftentimes people only learn the
lessons when they hit a rock rock rock bottom. And

(01:06:51):
it felt like the hair Spray period of time too,
was a turnaround, Like I felt like hair Spray was
a whole lifting, like it was a well I had
to have. I've had many turnarounds, but most of the
I didn't miss into I didn't pay attention to. I mean,
you see what's happening with mainly with younger rappers or whatever.
But I mean, first of all, do you think that

(01:07:11):
you're even in a space and life from which you
can actually like mentor someone to be like yo, like
I was you in the situation. And I don't really
believe in that. I really don't because you everybody's excuse me,
life is different. Everybody, every experience is different. If you
ask me my advice on something, I'll give it to you.

(01:07:31):
But I don't believe in mentoring. I'd never believe in that.
I know, I know that's weird, and still believe in it.
I just don't believe it's just fascinating mentors in a way.
So people perceive mentors well even their words that the
even advice that I got from them didn't work until
you have to understand life in your own way. I

(01:07:51):
don't care what advice someone gives you, you know. You
know what I'm saying, like, you have to go through
life in your own way and understand steps stuff your
own way. And that's that's what I've realized in my life.
I don't know, you gotta learn, you gotta learn on
your own. Yeah, I mean there are things that I
remember my great hunt saying when I was little, you know,
you know, uh, when I used to talk back to

(01:08:13):
my mom, she used to say, and I used to
tell her what she annoys me. She used to say
that there are worse things after you die. There are
worse things that that can happen to you. If you
talk to my mom. Never forget that. Like you're saying,
you're gonna burn in hale. Did you keep talking to
your back to your word? Yeah, I'm like you ain't
getting wooings. That's what that was, Okay, Like little things

(01:08:38):
like that through Yeah You're the last album it was,
it was self titled, but I remember reading a review
of that one and I think the original title was
Dandelion That so um was that the title of album?
Probably probably another way. I really loved that song, Like
another way it was, I thought that was really gonna
go up. You know what I'm saying. I don't. I

(01:09:00):
don't like I don't like it at all. I I uh,
I don't hate it. But it was a point in
my life where I did not care about the album.
I didn't care about any I did not care about that.
I didn't care about that. I didn't care about that.
There's a couple of songs that I like, but that
whole period was just just confusion. Damn. I got a

(01:09:23):
question about the Coco song. Ah, that's a lovely song.
I liked that song, like I was gonna say, I
went to school with one of the songwriters on that song.
But did you like, did does that Charles just submit
that song to you? Or I don't remember how it happened.
I mean, I I remember going down to Darryl Simmons

(01:09:44):
studio and we recorded to being Me and Cocoa Okay,
and it was a lot of fun. But I don't
remember how it was submitted. The shoot submitted through Warren
Brothers or something like that, but it's a beautiful song.
I love that song. Yeah, she's that. Um is the
young lady. I went to school with her in elementary

(01:10:05):
but she was the young lady who replaced Vanessa Williams
when she had to give up a crown for Miss America.
First place was Miss Jersey, who was also a black woman.
Dang untold stories. Wow she was. She was the best
friends with my sister Dawn, So you know, I kind
of grew up with She's thatte and I know that

(01:10:27):
she did some songwriting and whatever. Mm hmm, Tevin, do
you do you mind talking about the Broadway thing and
like what made you make that transition into theater? I
don't I don't mind talking about it now. Someone just
got a call request. They were trying to find me,
and they called Quest Records and they finally located me

(01:10:47):
and they asked me to come out and read for
this part. So it was Matt Lynz, who was the
assistant director. His partner recommended me for the part of Seaweed.
He was like, where's Tevin Campbell? And they found me
and I came out and I auditioned in front of
all the people there, directors and their body and then
I walked out and they didn't call me back in
until me you got to part. So I played the

(01:11:10):
Seaweed in Here Spray for like Broadway for like four years,
and then I went to Australia. I lived out there
for two years and did it with a whole different
cast and directors. So it was a lot of fun. Yeah,
So I played Seaweed for like six years on the
Broadway on the theater stage. All right, can you answer
something for me? Australia And I keep trying to tell

(01:11:35):
people this that you know, I come from Philadelphia, which
was you know, at one point, you know, they held
the torch for a certain type of soul music. Okay,
I'll say it, Neil soul. I don't see neil soul
as a four letter word. Um, but oftentimes, like you know,

(01:11:55):
on social media or whatever, just the amount of soul
singers that I see in Australia is staggering. So uh
Ruwan one of my managers when I was DJ and
doing the Pandemic, he's kind of like my DJ manager,
tech guy. Um, he's from Australia, and he explained to

(01:12:16):
me that's similar to the UK, you know, like we
live in America were basically corporate radio controls the music
that you're listening to six six months from now, you know,
a clear channel will have already pre programmed, you know,
the next Little Baby song or the next Dosy Cat song,

(01:12:37):
like we're gonna play this fifty times. And you know,
they have monopolies, which is why we hear the same
songs over and over and over and over and over,
whereas government radio I e BBC one, BBC two, and
the same with Australia. It's still kind of like nineteen
eight or seventy nine in America where they actually trust

(01:12:58):
the DJ to be like this is cool, this is
not cool, and this. And so as a result, Ru
explained to me, because I was trying to it's like
suddenly out of nowhere to start hearing like music that
I would have gravitated towards, but by these Australian musicians.
I mean, you see it now, Hiatus Coyote and all that.
But rub was basically explaining to me that on mainstream radio,

(01:13:23):
you know, Erica Bado got equal time, you know to
Justin timber Lake or Christina Aguilera or whatever, like it
wasn't like pop radios here and black radios here like
Radio Australia. Right. But that's the thing, and that's why
a festival there's there's a there's a soul festival that's

(01:13:45):
almost like three times the size of Coachella, in which
the lineup is basically like the roots picnic on steroids.
Like every time you see the lineup, I think it's
a gag or like not true, it'll be like Maxwell di'angelo,
you know as w V that are like imagine seeing
that sort of line up. But just with every black

(01:14:07):
actor you ever loved. And my whole thing was when
you were living down there, did you notice a love
for black music or even your catalog that you weren't
finding in the States at all? Well yeah, yeah, And
and both on the radio and from the cast I

(01:14:27):
was working with. So the girl that played the lead park,
who was like twenty um six, she started singing Good
Times by Retha Franklin. I literally almost having herves breakdown
because I never heard a white girl singing good Times
by Reatha Franklin literally, And she had this amazing voice.
She could really sing. She knew all of the oldies

(01:14:50):
and and and so we were riding around they would
be playing stuff that I had never heard in America
by these artists, these R and B artists that I
had never heard. Uh, And that kind of surprised me.
And it wasn't Uh, you're right, they don't have black
station white stations. They just kind of bladed all together.
But they have a huge appreciation for her. Right. I
was just trying to understand Australia as a as a

(01:15:11):
content anyway, Like do they have black people outside of
their the natives, the Aboriginal people? Yeah? I'm like, is
they they have concept of Black America and where these
these lyrics come from and all of these things, or
is it just like white people listening to old they
have a they have more of a concept of us
than we do of ourselves. Because let me tell you
some about Australia and you speak to anyone over there,

(01:15:32):
they can do an American accent easy. You can speak
to an eight year old and they could do an
American accent because they studied us, right, that's an American.
What I'm saying is they know our culture. They know
our culture. They know they can tell you about hip
hop and shoo, I'm telling you it's some hip hopsters
over there they that's true like music. I lived there

(01:15:53):
for two years. I'm telling you it's like that. Now.
Not all of the white people are like that in Australia,
but I was. I was surprised by the knowledge. Uh.
I was surprised by the knowledge that some of these
people that I have met had a black music passing present. Wow,
it's so they're better students than the Japanese. Like there
was a point where I'll say, like in nineties seven

(01:16:17):
where prefer gyps or group like the Jurassic five or
even like like uh Ben Ben Harper, I mean selling
out like keep imagine like literally the first thing was
like I called my boys up, like yo, man, we're
we are actually open up for the Jackson five and

(01:16:40):
we're playing like a Yankee stadium type of venue. Like
we couldn't believe, like that was the big industry that
basically like underground black acts get treated like gods over there.
That's what I'm saying. We couldn't. We couldn't fathom it.
And simply because they're really wasn't in apartheid with radio

(01:17:03):
yet you know, like they all got equal billing, which
is like imagine, like listen to smells like teen Spirit
and then like a Second Lady. They're playing like Chicken Grease,
like an album cut, not like, oh, here's the single,
but it's just it's crazy like that over there culture. Yeah,
it's cool. I'm glad y'all like it. I just didn't
love it with as much many black people to uh

(01:17:25):
you know, good stuff. There's some black people over there,
opens over there, but they don't live in the same
area as uh as that. You know, it depends on
where you go. You go to Mailbourne, you get their
African there. I also say this much most most of
the underground, like hip hopper is like you know, I

(01:17:49):
can name I mean, I can't rattle off names right now,
but I'll say a good ten to twenty of them
have made their homes in Australia now, which is just
like you know, basically like America. Just there's there's almost
no future here if you're trying to make a living
or make a splash as far as culture is concerned.

(01:18:10):
I'm listening. I'm like, you know, role versus Waite guy
Mothercker's think of difference. I'm listening to places to go
So when they regulate a woman's body more than they
regulate guns and that's what we do. It is it,
you know, for you to have this illustrious career and

(01:18:33):
you're like, in your your thirtieth year, what are your
top five seven Campbell songs? As far as like songs
that you like and don't give me that every song
is my kid, Like, I'll give you. I'll give you
some good songs because you're appreciating I do. I appreciate
my work now more than I ever have. Okay, so
I'm gonna give you some real ances. I love I

(01:18:55):
know my Redeement Livis. I did that on the Handles
Sosiah soundtrack. Probably heard it? No, you never heard that?
I know. I look up? Can we talk? I like
my my vocal performance on there. I think it's one
of the best. Oh holy Night, all right, oh holy night.

(01:19:17):
I like a Perfect World from the first album. It's
just it's I love it. Trying to think of a
really good one. Then I listened to Weekly, Oh yeah, Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Yeah, tomorrow, definitely, Yeah,
that's one of the Yeah. I enjoy listening to that
because I sound so pretty different and it's when I

(01:19:37):
my first record. This is so cute, you know, like
you know I will never ever sound like that ever again.
And it's the first one, so yeah, that's really special
to me. I like that one. So for you and
your your future is there? Are there any other bucket
list things that you would like it to accomplish? Return

(01:19:58):
to the stage. I returned to the theatrical stage. They're
gonna be our way with performances. Are you ever going
to return to the stage. I would love to go
back to Broadway, but I really I wouldn't be happy
until I wanted Grammy. So in all it takes is
one song to win a Grammy, so I really do.
I'm working on that album and I really really wanted

(01:20:20):
release another album. I just need the Grammy. I'll be
happy too when I'm with my Grammy. I would love
to act. I would love to do film and team
I've always wanted to do that. Yeah, how is Queen
Sugar Man? You did the Queen Sugar for How I
wasn't I should have? I need to do it again
because I was like, already should catch up with season

(01:20:45):
some few years ago. No it wasn't. No, it wasn't.
I didn't get the season four yet. I'm still years ago.
But no acting and I would like to write a book.
When I'm like sixty, I would like to write a book.
I wanted to do a podcast and talk about the
pros and cons of childhood starting. But okay, so what's on?
I don't know a bunch of childhood form and childhood

(01:21:07):
stars in there, but got a network. I really would
like to do, like an album like Barry Manelote did
like classic songs, and I I always wanted to do an
album like that because I love classic songs like Frank
Sinatra songs and stuff like that. But I'm just thinking
out loud, have you been saying feature requests happened? Because
I feel like a lot of these young kids they
have to hit you up for the Tevin s done

(01:21:29):
like they you've been You've been saying no. You've been
saying no. I've been saying no, But I ain't. Nobody
asked me nothing like that. Man, I can't believe they
call up like, I just don't believe something like with
all of this, you know everybody, you know what? That's

(01:21:54):
the question I avoid the most because I hate when
I'm asked that question. Like people always be like, anybody
say that you Like I didn't end that no, no,
no no. And I never asked that, but I was
just ask in general, is there anyone that's made a
record in the last ten years is something that like

(01:22:15):
really touched you, Like Okay, I like that record or
that song, or like Jazzmine Sullivan. When I heard her
that makes sense Hotels really sort of uh talk about
it was interesting how she just put her whole life,
like that story into the hour because that's kind of

(01:22:37):
what I want to do with my story that I'm
trying to tell. And I think I was very impressed
at how she did that and made it relatable. Uh,
it made it enjoyable and entertaining at the same time.
So Jasmine can make the call and you would say yes, okay.
Oh And I love her voice, you know. I think
she's a great I think we have an end of Jasmine,

(01:22:57):
do we. I think we got a little something something.
I think we have an into her. I like Lord too.
I think she's very talented. Uh heard her songwriting and
the way she tells stories that her album that album
influenced me. I think it was her last album that
she released. So those two albums I think really got
me to thinking how I want to write my album

(01:23:18):
because it's not gonna be. Can we talk It's not
gonna be. I'm ready. I kind of want to tell
my story, um in a way that everybody can relate to, though,
so I don't want to stirt people too far away
from the formula. But I do have a story to tell,
you know, I have story to tell. I can't just
think about love. Um this this has been a long

(01:23:43):
time coming, I think I first, it's like two years ago,
and I'm so glad that we finally got to have
this conversation. All right, Well, I on behalf of you
know Sugar Steve, unpaid, Bill, Yeah, and frontick a little.
This is, of course Love another great episode of course
love meam. We will see you good people on the

(01:24:03):
next go round. Question bove scream, c l A, thank you,
m h m h much. Love Supreme is a production
of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

(01:24:24):
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.