April 19, 2024 • 37 mins
Once again, Rachel becomes a hot storyline on VPR.
As the cast reacts to Rachel's interview with Bethenny Frankel, only Rachel can give YOU the full story.
While her former castmates (and alleged friends) had all kinds of tears and anger, Rachel is addressing the falsehoods in this narrative.
Rachel's responding and she's coming with receipts.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel gos Rogue. Welcome back to another episode
of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is your host, Rachel Savannah Levis,
and today we are responding to episode twelve of vander
Pump Rules. It seems like this whole episode is a
response to the Bethany Frankel interview I did back in August,
(00:32):
and the cast has many opinions on it. The thing
that I don't appreciate is the cast picking and choosing
what I said, taking it out of context, and spinning
it to make it seem like I'm this horrible person,
(00:52):
which I did a horrible thing. My behavior was that,
But it just seems like their response to my podcast
was a little extreme. And I'm trying not to get
wrapped up in it because when I was watching this
and prepping these side by side videos that I posted
(01:12):
on my Instagram, it really took me into this vortex
tunnel that I don't like to be in. This show
is not healthy for me, and it targets my insecurities
and I don't like it. I don't love being in
an emotional state of feeling like I need to defend myself,
(01:39):
and I felt like this episode was an attack on
my character. If I don't defend myself, then people are
just going to consume that and assume that that's actually
what I said, and it's not. I'm not going to
let them rewrite my narrative. What they're saying is not true,
(02:00):
and we're here to dispute that today. What I would
like to do is with my producers, read some of
the quotes what the cast claims I said versus what
I actually said on the Bethany Frinkle interview. The first
one is Sina talking to Ariana and Lala. Sina says,
(02:25):
she says that they were just acquaintances at best. This
is in reference to my friendship with Arianna. What I
actually said was Ariana and I were not best friends.
We were acquaintances who became friends through the show. She's
(02:46):
always been somebody who's been very sweet to me. She
would stand up for me and encourage me to pursue
whatever I was pursuing, and that was all great, But
we never had like a deep conversation that I would
have with a best friend. Okay, So I was explaining
(03:08):
the purpose of saying we were acquaintances that became friends
through the show was to demonstrate that the narrative that
was being put out there that Ariana and I were
best friends is false and I still stand by that. Yes,
Ariana and I, you know, we hung out in group settings,
(03:31):
but I stand by what I said. We didn't have
those in depth conversations, and I acknowledge what I did
was messed up. I get it, like I get any
level of friendship. It's still messed up. I understand, but
production chose to run with the narrative that Arianna and
(03:54):
I were best friends and that's not the case. The
next one is is Ariana talking to Shena and La
La Okay. Arianna says, Rachel and I spent a ton
of time together. Although I wasn't hanging out with Arianna
off camera to begin with, I did start hanging out
with her in a group setting because Tom would always
(04:17):
invite me out. So it did seem like we were
close friends from the outside looking in. But in those situations,
I was hanging out with Tom more than I was
hanging out with her.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So did you spend time Did you ever spend time
with Ariana off camera and away from the show.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
No, not just us together.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Never.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
No, Tom was the one inviting me out and telling
me like it's all good. He would get me in
a mental headspace where I felt more comfortable hanging out
with her in a group setting. But even then I
wasn't that comfortable because I was drinking so much alcohol.
(05:02):
And I know this may sound like excuses to some
of you guys, but I was not physically comfortable hanging
out with her, and I did distance myself quite a bit,
and Tom told me that she noticed.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So now we're like a year later and you're their
their rehashiness. How does it make you feel now like
a year has passed.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Feel like I've done so much personal growth, and the
way that the show is talking about me, it's like
attempting to keep me confined in a box labeled home
wrecker or like shame on you or you know, this
(05:50):
is a bad person, and I've done everything in my
power to change my behavior. So it's it's like a
weird time capsule re experiencing all of this with a
little bit more context, getting the cast reactions to it.
(06:13):
It's bizarre because it's very easy to get sucked back
into that headspace that's not healthy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Can you talk a little bit more about that? When
you put the episode out, What did you expect the
cast reactions to be?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Like? So I wasn't sure if the show was still filming.
I thought maybe by August they would have wrapped filming.
But I guess it makes sense that the cast would
have a reaction.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
When you put it out. What was going through your head?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I really wanted to take accountability for my actions. I
wanted to demonstrate that I've reflected on how my behavior
had impacted the people around me, and I also wanted
(07:05):
to hold the show accountable for the messed up situation.
You know, yes, I chose to put myself in hot water,
but the way that the network capitalized off of it
(07:26):
and didn't want to protect me at all, and yeah,
that was that was super hurtful. So I wanted to
call that out. And Bethany seemed like her values were
in alignment with mine, and I wasn't really so much
thinking about, oh, how is the cast going to react?
Because I already had fractured friendships with all of them,
(07:48):
it was kind of like a done deal. But I
will say at that time, I was still protecting Tom
and I chose not to throw him under the bus
because I still had those feelings for him where I
didn't want to quote unquote betray him even though he
(08:10):
betrayed me first. So I wasn't very hard on him,
and I definitely didn't talk about him the way I
talk about him now. So there's been more processing that
I've been able to do.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Did you expect the cast reactions to be on this season?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, it was It's kind of like, whoa, this was
an intense episode right now. Yeah, I was not expecting that, and.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So watching their reactions back now, are they kind of
in alignment with what you would expect from them or
did some surprise you?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's a good question. I feel like they've they demonstrate
their character consistently. Sheina coming to mind how she reacted
like with a lot of anger, But I certainly didn't
expect to be talked about to the level of it
being this topic of this entire episode. Speaking of Sheena,
(09:11):
the next quote that I would like to pull from
the episode is Shina talking to Ariana and Laala, saying
she said I had some savior complex, that our friendship
was equally beneficial as far as I helped her, she
helped meet, and then she was like, I paid rent,
(09:32):
I paid the bills. I'm like, bitch, you contributed one
thousand to my four thousand, three hundred dollars rent, you
didn't pay for parking, you didn't pay for cable, you
didn't even stock toilet paper, and you had sex in
my bed. What I actually said was so Sena was
(09:52):
one of my best friends. She offered her apartment to
me to say, while I was figuring out my next
moves after breaking up with James. She kept this apartment
in LA but wasn't living in it because she was
living down in San Diego. But she started creating this
(10:14):
narrative that she was a sister I never had, and
the mother like a mother to me, and that she
gave me a place to live when nobody else would
you know, put me up anywhere, and that I didn't
pay rent, which is not true. I did pay rent.
And I also cat sat for her cat who was
(10:35):
pumped with mercury for a treatment. She couldn't be near
the cat because she was breastfeeding for her daughter. And
I also did her podcasts, and she said the one
podcast that I did with her talking about my breakup
with James was the number one most listened to podcast.
(10:57):
So I know that it's just unfortunate that she's trying
to create this narrative that I've taken advantage of her
when I feel like I did contribute in a way
that would really saying you're saying it was a quid
pro quote.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It was a mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial relationship within within
a television show, which is all murky anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Right, Sina's going tip for tat. And she offered her
apartment for me to stay in a time that I
was struggling with a heartbreak and I wasn't sure if
I was going to go back to the show or
if I was going to go back to school and
get my masters. And she was like, you're helping me
(11:46):
out by just paying one thousand dollars because I'm not
living in this apartment. Brock and I are staying in
San Diego, and this helps me out so I have
a place to stay in LA when I come back.
And she was like, take the master bedroom when Brock
and I are gone. The way She's like, oh, and
she had sex in my bed, Like yeah, you knew that,
(12:09):
Like you were encouraging me, you were setting me up
with different guys to go on dates with and she
encouraged me to talk about my sex life on her
podcast that we filmed on her bed. So now you
have a problem with it. There's incongruence with what she's
saying and what her expectations were of me as a roommate.
(12:36):
Now we move into Allie and James talking. Allie says
she says that she was just upset after your breakup.
She wasn't over you, she never actually loved Tom, which
is funny because that's not what she was saying last summer.
And then it like flashes back to me telling Andy
(12:58):
Cohen that I was in love with Tom at the reunion,
and this is what I actually said.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Were you what you believed to be in love with Tom?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I believed I was in love with Tom at the time.
I now look back on it and see that I
was not in love with him. I also don't believe
that he truly was in love with me either.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Looking back on your relationship with Tom today, do you
think that what you had was loved.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I think there was a part of me that was
in love with him. But true love is not somebody
calling you selfish for you like taking care of your
basic needs and I don't think Tom really loved me.
I don't know what love anyway. Like. It was definitely intense,
(13:55):
it was definitely infatuation. It was manipulative, it was secretive,
It was toxic in that way because there was secrets,
It was not healthy and because of all of those things,
I don't think that that's actually love. I thought I
(14:16):
was in love with Tom at that time. I really did,
and it took me a long time to get over
him and choose to not contact him again. I thought
there was a future for us. You know, it was infatuation,
but I thought maybe it could develop into real, real love,
(14:38):
like a self less type of love. But it wasn't
that at all. And I feel like the foundations of
how a relationship starts is super important. I just I
don't think it would have worked out. It wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Were there any signs to you before you went actually
into the facility? Were you like, what were you grappling
with before you went in?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
The main issue, the main source of our arguments were
he needs to break up with the Arianna publicly because
it's it's not fair to me, nor is it fair
to Ariana. And he would say that I was holding
(15:34):
that over his head, and he's actively breaking up with her,
and he is taking all the right steps to do
that in an amicable way. My god, this guy's delusion.
And our biggest argument is when I saw someone else,
(15:55):
like I was seeing someone before Tom and I got involved,
and this is the person that I was talking about
on Sheena's podcast. He hit me up and we hung
out and I told Tom about it, and he called
me a sociopath. And I said that that's not fair
because I want to be exclusive with you, but since
(16:19):
you're not exclusive to me, hence being in a public relationship,
that's not fair to me. You know, Like I'm in
my twenties, I'm supposed to be living my life. I'm
supposed to be dating other people. And he Yeah, he
really threw me for a loop because then he accused
(16:42):
me of being a sociopath.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So now looking at it again in live time, you're
reliving it through these episodes, and then yet the after
show is real time and he is really claiming you know,
you were the bad guy in this situation and you
let him on. He's so hurt and he's the only
one that's worked on himself, Like, how does that make you.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Feel gosh, yeah, he's making it seem like he's a
victim of me. Both James and Tom made it sound
like they were victims of me in this episode. And
once again Tom calling me selfish, which takes me back
to the times that he would call me selfish for
extending my stay to keep working on myself in the
(17:30):
mental health facility. I think it's just ironic because Tom,
I don't know what work he's done, but it does
not show. It doesn't translate into what he talks about
and how he acts.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Tom goes on to say, Rachel to Tom Schwartz, I
don't understand how she could think that I was anything
but somebody who just loved and cared about her. I
would do anything for her.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, he was not somebody who loved and cared about me.
He was somebody who was controlling and manipulated the situation
to keep me in his grasp. And I know that
may sound extreme, but this is the situation. And I'm
not trying to victimize myself either, Like I am taking
(18:19):
these active steps to never put myself in that situation again.
And I'm able to recognize the red flag, so I
don't put myself in that situation again. But he wanted
to control me, and if I went to work on myself,
then he became the victim of me because now his
(18:40):
needs aren't being met because I'm not there. This is
just lip service right here. I would do anything for her.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I will say in all the conversations that he had
with me, too, you were trying to better yourself in
an I mean, this is the part that blows my mind.
An inpatient facility to work with counsel twenty four to seven,
and he was saying that you were selfish. He was
saying that you weren't seeing to his needs. And he
(19:10):
was telling me all the time that you had to
get out of there. You were being brainwashed. You were
being brainwashed. You have to reintegrate into society as quickly
as possible and get back to the show. To me,
all of those things are controlling and manipulative. And why
would anybody think that somebody would choose to go to
an impatient facility for three months if they didn't think
(19:30):
they needed it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, he tried to talk me out of going multiple times,
and well, he successfully talked me out of going the
first time, and I chose to go to the reunion.
He was telling me, he was telling my parents that
this place was going to brainwash me, that it's a cult,
that I can't go there, And the reason why he
(19:55):
didn't want me to go is because he knew that
I would get good therapy and that it would jeopardize
his control over me.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So, knowing all of this and seeing his reaction to
what you said about him and seeing how much it
broke him down on the episode, was that surprising to you?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
No, he's upset about I believe that we see Tom
breaking down on this episode because he's upset that he
officially has lost control of me, like I've gone rogue,
and that's why he's upset, and I think he's scared.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
When Tom is talking to James later in the episode,
he says, throughout this whole process, I really tried to
look out for Raquel. I'm realizing now that I cared
for her way more than she cared for me.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh God, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, he
tried to look out for me. No, he didn't. He
didn't care. He didn't care how all of this was
going to affect me. He probably knew that eventually this
was gonna all come to light, and he did not
do anything to protect me.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Do you think he actually believed that he was looking
out for you?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I don't know. I don't know. But when he says
that I cared for her way more than she cared
for me, I substitute the word care for control, like
caring is not controlling behavior. And maybe in his brain
(21:39):
he felt like he was looking out for me, but
he wasn't. No, I really don't believe that he was,
and I don't believe that he thought he was, Like
he was deciding to I don't know, like get involved
like this knowing that, and I was too, like this
(21:59):
is this is where my piece of accountability comes in too.
And maybe I can give him a little bit of
grace because he was going through a tough time in
life with a bar opening and all of his money
going into it, and he wasn't happy in his relationship
and he needed to seek I mean, he was drinking
a lot too, and he was trying to find some
(22:22):
sort of escape. And in a way, we found each
other to escape together, and it was like the perfect storm.
But I don't believe that he was truly looking out
for me at all. Plus, if you think about respecting somebody,
caring for somebody, loving somebody, you don't record somebody on
(22:46):
an intimate FaceTime without asking for permission first, if you
really care about that person.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
He goes on to say, I'm listening to this shit
that's coming out of her, and I'm like, it's bullshit.
It's so goddamn disrespectful. She used me and now she's
throwing me away.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's wild his mindset. He believes that I used him.
What purpose does it serve me to use Tom Sandobal
in this way. It's not to become more famous. If
(23:29):
it was, I would have gone back for another season
of vander Pump Rules. It's not for storyline purposes for me.
I think maybe he's hurt, but he feels used. I
think I was really broken and I needed somebody to
help me process through the heartbreak that I was experiencing
(23:53):
with James, and he was that person to me, and
I was also so that person to him through his
tough time and him confiding in me about his relationship.
So in a way, we kind of used each other
as an escape. But now he wants to play the
(24:16):
victim and say that I just used him and now
I'm throwing him away. Not true.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So now you're in the meadows. What are the epiphanies
that you had realizing that his love wasn't true love
or healthy kind of love, or was manipulation or narcissism
or whatever you learned? What was that epiphany for you
that it turned around and you started healing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Do you mind if I grab my journal really quick?
I can tell you exactly what. Ooh, okay, let's see
oh man, this part okay. So we watched movies at
(25:07):
the Meadows, and one of them was Harry Potter. Of
course wrote I feel like Jenny Weasley and Harry Potter
in the Chamber of Secrets. When Tom Riddle has her
under his spell, he has her to do all of
these things out of her character, out of her integrity,
to pease Tom. Am I playing the victim role by
(25:29):
saying this. Essentially Tom has manipulated me and had me
under his love spell. So that was so intoxicating and
fun and quote unquote intimate. He turns me against my family.
He said that my mom is gaslighting me and manipulating me,
and that she doesn't have my best interest at heart.
(25:53):
My mom has ulterior motives. He says, he tries to
talk me out of treatment. They're going to brainwash you.
There isn't such a thing called love addiction. This place
is a last ditch effort. Extending is a bad idea.
You are coming dependent on this place. He calls me
selfish for staying. I shared with him that I was
(26:15):
having really dark thoughts, and I told him I was
extending two more weeks. And he said that that was
a bad idea. And I said, I'm scared if I
come out of what might happen if I'm having these
dark thoughts. He said, that's still a bad idea. I've
been having to rough it out here alone.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
What does it feel like reading this stuff back?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Now? Let me think about this. I feel like I'm
very thankful that I've had this experience to go in
and get mental health care and intense trauma therapy, because
(27:04):
without it, I would have remained under Tom's spell. And
it took me like this, this is towards this is
towards the end of my journal. So it took me
all of this time to get to this point where
I was like, oh my god. He is always playing
(27:28):
the victim role. He is switching the script on me
to manipulate me and to control me, and he calls
me selfish, and reading this back, it's like, Wow, Yeah,
I really saw him for what he actually is. And
(27:50):
it's cool too because I've now been able to talk
about it on this podcast. I'm back. When I did
Bethany Frankel's podcast, I wasn't in the space to talk
about it so freely, So I think that just goes
to show like how far I've even come from that point,
(28:13):
because it's one thing to admit it to yourself and
it's another to admit it to the whole world. But yeah,
this was like the game changing journal entry. It's like
pages long of undeniable conversations.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
If you could go back and say something to that
girl who wrote both pages in the journal, what would
you say to her?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Who would say, I am so fricking proud of you.
I'm so proud of you that you are finally seeing
things for how they truly are and not living in
this land of alu usion. And this is exactly what
(29:04):
is needed to be able to break out of that
denial and to really face the facts, and the first
step to choosing a healthier, safer relationship that you ultimately want.
(29:25):
So I am so frickin' proud of you.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
So I want to switch gears a little bit to
something that James said to Tom. She got with you
because she wasn't quite over me. What are your thoughts
on that? And do you feel like that's really what happened.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I mean, I think it's just funny that he's interpreting
it this way because it feeds his ego, And in
a way, I guess it's a little bit true because
I was heartbroken over the fact that James moved on
with Ali so quickly and he was shoving it in
my face, or that I chose to film, and you know,
I guess I signed up for that heartbreak even though
(30:03):
I didn't even know what heartbreak really was. In a way,
I did get with Tom because I wasn't able to
process my emotions that I was feeling with James. And
I don't know, I think this whole conversation was weird though,
like it was kind of like they were trying to
(30:25):
one up each other and like claim their territory.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
It seems like he said that as almost like to
brag to Tom.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Did you yes, Yeah, totally, Yeah, I felt like he
was trying to one up him by being like, oh, well,
she only got with you because she wasn't over me. Yeah,
it's pretty clear that both of these guys have big egos.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Hearing him say that on the episode when you watched
it back, what was your gut reaction to that.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I wasn't even really caring what they were saying specifically.
It was more of like my reaction to that whole
conversation that they had. That back and forth with each
other just shows how idiotic both of them are. It
was very weird to watch and laughable. Really, I felt
(31:21):
really uncomfortable watching this entire episode, especially that scene.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
So Lisa says, what can Raquel possibly say that is
going to make anybody look at her in a better light?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Oh, Lisa vander Palm, you love to ride for your
Tom sand of all, But anything that I say will
never change people's points of view. It's like bizarre to me. Also,
the way that they were saying, like, oh, you know,
like Tom has been through so much and all of
these disclaimers at the beginning of the season of dark
(32:00):
thoughts and suicide to hotline stuff. It just seems like
production cares about Tom's mental health, but when it's like,
actually my mental health on the line, they don't take
it seriously. They don't care. They don't want to believe
that I'm actually going through something, but then they want
to baby Tom. It's just infuriating. It almost feels like hopeless.
(32:26):
I feel like I'm really fighting a battle that is
impossible to win because they're spinning all of this stuff
to put me in the worst light, and all I
want to do is move on. Then when they do
this and it's inaccurate, I have this urge to defend
(32:51):
myself because if I do want to keep moving and
living and trying to enjoy life without all of this toxicity,
and it's like I'm really fighting, but no matter what
(33:12):
I do, it just seems to be always wrong, Like
I can't win. So what do I do? I guess
I just have to like let go and surrender, or
it's like, what am I supposed to do? Just let
them talk about me and not defend myself?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Why do you feel this desire to defend yourself and
not just walk away completely?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Because I've worked so hard on myself, I've dedicated this
whole past year to bettering myself and to take accountability
and change my behavior. And I don't like being misrepresented.
(34:00):
And I think this is also the struggle too, of
battling with that need for validation and knowing what that
limit is, because at a certain point, it's like does
it even matter? Does it matter what other people think
of me? Like it should only really matter what the
(34:23):
people I interact with in person on a weekly basis
or daily basis, like actual real conversations and connections and friendships.
Feeling how I felt watching episode twelve of vander Pump
(34:43):
Rules this week just confirmed everything that I suspected because
just consuming it made me go mentally unwell. And if
(35:04):
I'm able to feel that way just by viewing it,
imagine how I would have felt experiencing it firsthand and
being in these conversations with these people that actually don't
have any regard for my mental well being at all.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Looking back on the Besiny interview, what are your thoughts
on it now? Do you regrete your decision? Would you
have done anything differently? Or do you stand by going
on the show and saying what you said.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I feel like it was the right decision for me
to be able to share my story freely, openly, which
gave me some control back in this world that was
completely out of my control. You know, all of these stories,
all of these lies. It was just very daunting and
(36:00):
it seemed like there was no light and Bethany gave
me a little bit of light at the end of
the tunnel. And I'm happy that I was able to
go on because I shared how I felt in my
thought process at that time, and like I worked my freakin'
butt off at the meadows to get down to the
(36:23):
bottom of it because I wanted to know for myself
so that I could choose better for myself next time.
And I feel like I was able to articulate exactly
what that was for me, and I am very proud
of that courage that it took to go on that podcast.
(36:45):
I think that it was the right decision for me.
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Rachel gos Rogue Podcast.
This is Rachel gos Rogue. Welcome back to another episode
of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is your host, Rachel Savannah Levis,
and today we are responding to episode twelve of vander
Pump Rules. It seems like this whole episode is a
response to the Bethany Frankel interview I did back in August,
(00:32):
and the cast has many opinions on it. The thing
that I don't appreciate is the cast picking and choosing
what I said, taking it out of context, and spinning
it to make it seem like I'm this horrible person,
(00:52):
which I did a horrible thing. My behavior was that,
But it just seems like their response to my podcast
was a little extreme. And I'm trying not to get
wrapped up in it because when I was watching this
and prepping these side by side videos that I posted
(01:12):
on my Instagram, it really took me into this vortex
tunnel that I don't like to be in. This show
is not healthy for me, and it targets my insecurities
and I don't like it. I don't love being in
an emotional state of feeling like I need to defend myself,
(01:39):
and I felt like this episode was an attack on
my character. If I don't defend myself, then people are
just going to consume that and assume that that's actually
what I said, and it's not. I'm not going to
let them rewrite my narrative. What they're saying is not true,
(02:00):
and we're here to dispute that today. What I would
like to do is with my producers, read some of
the quotes what the cast claims I said versus what
I actually said on the Bethany Frinkle interview. The first
one is Sina talking to Ariana and Lala. Sina says,
(02:25):
she says that they were just acquaintances at best. This
is in reference to my friendship with Arianna. What I
actually said was Ariana and I were not best friends.
We were acquaintances who became friends through the show. She's
(02:46):
always been somebody who's been very sweet to me. She
would stand up for me and encourage me to pursue
whatever I was pursuing, and that was all great, But
we never had like a deep conversation that I would
have with a best friend. Okay, So I was explaining
(03:08):
the purpose of saying we were acquaintances that became friends
through the show was to demonstrate that the narrative that
was being put out there that Ariana and I were
best friends is false and I still stand by that. Yes,
Ariana and I, you know, we hung out in group settings,
(03:31):
but I stand by what I said. We didn't have
those in depth conversations, and I acknowledge what I did
was messed up. I get it, like I get any
level of friendship. It's still messed up. I understand, but
production chose to run with the narrative that Arianna and
(03:54):
I were best friends and that's not the case. The
next one is is Ariana talking to Shena and La
La Okay. Arianna says, Rachel and I spent a ton
of time together. Although I wasn't hanging out with Arianna
off camera to begin with, I did start hanging out
with her in a group setting because Tom would always
(04:17):
invite me out. So it did seem like we were
close friends from the outside looking in. But in those situations,
I was hanging out with Tom more than I was
hanging out with her.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So did you spend time Did you ever spend time
with Ariana off camera and away from the show.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
No, not just us together.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Never.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
No, Tom was the one inviting me out and telling
me like it's all good. He would get me in
a mental headspace where I felt more comfortable hanging out
with her in a group setting. But even then I
wasn't that comfortable because I was drinking so much alcohol.
(05:02):
And I know this may sound like excuses to some
of you guys, but I was not physically comfortable hanging
out with her, and I did distance myself quite a bit,
and Tom told me that she noticed.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So now we're like a year later and you're their
their rehashiness. How does it make you feel now like
a year has passed.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Feel like I've done so much personal growth, and the
way that the show is talking about me, it's like
attempting to keep me confined in a box labeled home
wrecker or like shame on you or you know, this
(05:50):
is a bad person, and I've done everything in my
power to change my behavior. So it's it's like a
weird time capsule re experiencing all of this with a
little bit more context, getting the cast reactions to it.
(06:13):
It's bizarre because it's very easy to get sucked back
into that headspace that's not healthy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Can you talk a little bit more about that? When
you put the episode out, What did you expect the
cast reactions to be?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Like? So I wasn't sure if the show was still filming.
I thought maybe by August they would have wrapped filming.
But I guess it makes sense that the cast would
have a reaction.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
When you put it out. What was going through your head?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I really wanted to take accountability for my actions. I
wanted to demonstrate that I've reflected on how my behavior
had impacted the people around me, and I also wanted
(07:05):
to hold the show accountable for the messed up situation.
You know, yes, I chose to put myself in hot water,
but the way that the network capitalized off of it
(07:26):
and didn't want to protect me at all, and yeah,
that was that was super hurtful. So I wanted to
call that out. And Bethany seemed like her values were
in alignment with mine, and I wasn't really so much
thinking about, oh, how is the cast going to react?
Because I already had fractured friendships with all of them,
(07:48):
it was kind of like a done deal. But I
will say at that time, I was still protecting Tom
and I chose not to throw him under the bus
because I still had those feelings for him where I
didn't want to quote unquote betray him even though he
(08:10):
betrayed me first. So I wasn't very hard on him,
and I definitely didn't talk about him the way I
talk about him now. So there's been more processing that
I've been able to do.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Did you expect the cast reactions to be on this season?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, it was It's kind of like, whoa, this was
an intense episode right now. Yeah, I was not expecting that, and.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So watching their reactions back now, are they kind of
in alignment with what you would expect from them or
did some surprise you?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's a good question. I feel like they've they demonstrate
their character consistently. Sheina coming to mind how she reacted
like with a lot of anger, But I certainly didn't
expect to be talked about to the level of it
being this topic of this entire episode. Speaking of Sheena,
(09:11):
the next quote that I would like to pull from
the episode is Shina talking to Ariana and Laala, saying
she said I had some savior complex, that our friendship
was equally beneficial as far as I helped her, she
helped meet, and then she was like, I paid rent,
(09:32):
I paid the bills. I'm like, bitch, you contributed one
thousand to my four thousand, three hundred dollars rent, you
didn't pay for parking, you didn't pay for cable, you
didn't even stock toilet paper, and you had sex in
my bed. What I actually said was so Sena was
(09:52):
one of my best friends. She offered her apartment to
me to say, while I was figuring out my next
moves after breaking up with James. She kept this apartment
in LA but wasn't living in it because she was
living down in San Diego. But she started creating this
(10:14):
narrative that she was a sister I never had, and
the mother like a mother to me, and that she
gave me a place to live when nobody else would
you know, put me up anywhere, and that I didn't
pay rent, which is not true. I did pay rent.
And I also cat sat for her cat who was
(10:35):
pumped with mercury for a treatment. She couldn't be near
the cat because she was breastfeeding for her daughter. And
I also did her podcasts, and she said the one
podcast that I did with her talking about my breakup
with James was the number one most listened to podcast.
(10:57):
So I know that it's just unfortunate that she's trying
to create this narrative that I've taken advantage of her
when I feel like I did contribute in a way
that would really saying you're saying it was a quid
pro quote.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It was a mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial relationship within within
a television show, which is all murky anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Right, Sina's going tip for tat. And she offered her
apartment for me to stay in a time that I
was struggling with a heartbreak and I wasn't sure if
I was going to go back to the show or
if I was going to go back to school and
get my masters. And she was like, you're helping me
(11:46):
out by just paying one thousand dollars because I'm not
living in this apartment. Brock and I are staying in
San Diego, and this helps me out so I have
a place to stay in LA when I come back.
And she was like, take the master bedroom when Brock
and I are gone. The way She's like, oh, and
she had sex in my bed, Like yeah, you knew that,
(12:09):
Like you were encouraging me, you were setting me up
with different guys to go on dates with and she
encouraged me to talk about my sex life on her
podcast that we filmed on her bed. So now you
have a problem with it. There's incongruence with what she's
saying and what her expectations were of me as a roommate.
(12:36):
Now we move into Allie and James talking. Allie says
she says that she was just upset after your breakup.
She wasn't over you, she never actually loved Tom, which
is funny because that's not what she was saying last summer.
And then it like flashes back to me telling Andy
(12:58):
Cohen that I was in love with Tom at the reunion,
and this is what I actually said.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Were you what you believed to be in love with Tom?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I believed I was in love with Tom at the time.
I now look back on it and see that I
was not in love with him. I also don't believe
that he truly was in love with me either.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Looking back on your relationship with Tom today, do you
think that what you had was loved.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I think there was a part of me that was
in love with him. But true love is not somebody
calling you selfish for you like taking care of your
basic needs and I don't think Tom really loved me.
I don't know what love anyway. Like. It was definitely intense,
(13:55):
it was definitely infatuation. It was manipulative, it was secretive,
It was toxic in that way because there was secrets,
It was not healthy and because of all of those things,
I don't think that that's actually love. I thought I
(14:16):
was in love with Tom at that time. I really did,
and it took me a long time to get over
him and choose to not contact him again. I thought
there was a future for us. You know, it was infatuation,
but I thought maybe it could develop into real, real love,
(14:38):
like a self less type of love. But it wasn't
that at all. And I feel like the foundations of
how a relationship starts is super important. I just I
don't think it would have worked out. It wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Were there any signs to you before you went actually
into the facility? Were you like, what were you grappling
with before you went in?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
The main issue, the main source of our arguments were
he needs to break up with the Arianna publicly because
it's it's not fair to me, nor is it fair
to Ariana. And he would say that I was holding
(15:34):
that over his head, and he's actively breaking up with her,
and he is taking all the right steps to do
that in an amicable way. My god, this guy's delusion.
And our biggest argument is when I saw someone else,
(15:55):
like I was seeing someone before Tom and I got involved,
and this is the person that I was talking about
on Sheena's podcast. He hit me up and we hung
out and I told Tom about it, and he called
me a sociopath. And I said that that's not fair
because I want to be exclusive with you, but since
(16:19):
you're not exclusive to me, hence being in a public relationship,
that's not fair to me. You know, Like I'm in
my twenties, I'm supposed to be living my life. I'm
supposed to be dating other people. And he Yeah, he
really threw me for a loop because then he accused
(16:42):
me of being a sociopath.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So now looking at it again in live time, you're
reliving it through these episodes, and then yet the after
show is real time and he is really claiming you know,
you were the bad guy in this situation and you
let him on. He's so hurt and he's the only
one that's worked on himself, Like, how does that make you.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Feel gosh, yeah, he's making it seem like he's a
victim of me. Both James and Tom made it sound
like they were victims of me in this episode. And
once again Tom calling me selfish, which takes me back
to the times that he would call me selfish for
extending my stay to keep working on myself in the
(17:30):
mental health facility. I think it's just ironic because Tom,
I don't know what work he's done, but it does
not show. It doesn't translate into what he talks about
and how he acts.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Tom goes on to say, Rachel to Tom Schwartz, I
don't understand how she could think that I was anything
but somebody who just loved and cared about her. I
would do anything for her.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, he was not somebody who loved and cared about me.
He was somebody who was controlling and manipulated the situation
to keep me in his grasp. And I know that
may sound extreme, but this is the situation. And I'm
not trying to victimize myself either, Like I am taking
(18:19):
these active steps to never put myself in that situation again.
And I'm able to recognize the red flag, so I
don't put myself in that situation again. But he wanted
to control me, and if I went to work on myself,
then he became the victim of me because now his
(18:40):
needs aren't being met because I'm not there. This is
just lip service right here. I would do anything for her.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I will say in all the conversations that he had
with me, too, you were trying to better yourself in
an I mean, this is the part that blows my mind.
An inpatient facility to work with counsel twenty four to seven,
and he was saying that you were selfish. He was
saying that you weren't seeing to his needs. And he
(19:10):
was telling me all the time that you had to
get out of there. You were being brainwashed. You were
being brainwashed. You have to reintegrate into society as quickly
as possible and get back to the show. To me,
all of those things are controlling and manipulative. And why
would anybody think that somebody would choose to go to
an impatient facility for three months if they didn't think
(19:30):
they needed it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, he tried to talk me out of going multiple times,
and well, he successfully talked me out of going the
first time, and I chose to go to the reunion.
He was telling me, he was telling my parents that
this place was going to brainwash me, that it's a cult,
that I can't go there, And the reason why he
(19:55):
didn't want me to go is because he knew that
I would get good therapy and that it would jeopardize
his control over me.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So, knowing all of this and seeing his reaction to
what you said about him and seeing how much it
broke him down on the episode, was that surprising to you?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
No, he's upset about I believe that we see Tom
breaking down on this episode because he's upset that he
officially has lost control of me, like I've gone rogue,
and that's why he's upset, and I think he's scared.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
When Tom is talking to James later in the episode,
he says, throughout this whole process, I really tried to
look out for Raquel. I'm realizing now that I cared
for her way more than she cared for me.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh God, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, he
tried to look out for me. No, he didn't. He
didn't care. He didn't care how all of this was
going to affect me. He probably knew that eventually this
was gonna all come to light, and he did not
do anything to protect me.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Do you think he actually believed that he was looking
out for you?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I don't know. I don't know. But when he says
that I cared for her way more than she cared
for me, I substitute the word care for control, like
caring is not controlling behavior. And maybe in his brain
(21:39):
he felt like he was looking out for me, but
he wasn't. No, I really don't believe that he was,
and I don't believe that he thought he was, Like
he was deciding to I don't know, like get involved
like this knowing that, and I was too, like this
(21:59):
is this is where my piece of accountability comes in too.
And maybe I can give him a little bit of
grace because he was going through a tough time in
life with a bar opening and all of his money
going into it, and he wasn't happy in his relationship
and he needed to seek I mean, he was drinking
a lot too, and he was trying to find some
(22:22):
sort of escape. And in a way, we found each
other to escape together, and it was like the perfect storm.
But I don't believe that he was truly looking out
for me at all. Plus, if you think about respecting somebody,
caring for somebody, loving somebody, you don't record somebody on
(22:46):
an intimate FaceTime without asking for permission first, if you
really care about that person.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
He goes on to say, I'm listening to this shit
that's coming out of her, and I'm like, it's bullshit.
It's so goddamn disrespectful. She used me and now she's
throwing me away.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's wild his mindset. He believes that I used him.
What purpose does it serve me to use Tom Sandobal
in this way. It's not to become more famous. If
(23:29):
it was, I would have gone back for another season
of vander Pump Rules. It's not for storyline purposes for me.
I think maybe he's hurt, but he feels used. I
think I was really broken and I needed somebody to
help me process through the heartbreak that I was experiencing
(23:53):
with James, and he was that person to me, and
I was also so that person to him through his
tough time and him confiding in me about his relationship.
So in a way, we kind of used each other
as an escape. But now he wants to play the
(24:16):
victim and say that I just used him and now
I'm throwing him away. Not true.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So now you're in the meadows. What are the epiphanies
that you had realizing that his love wasn't true love
or healthy kind of love, or was manipulation or narcissism
or whatever you learned? What was that epiphany for you
that it turned around and you started healing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Do you mind if I grab my journal really quick?
I can tell you exactly what. Ooh, okay, let's see
oh man, this part okay. So we watched movies at
(25:07):
the Meadows, and one of them was Harry Potter. Of
course wrote I feel like Jenny Weasley and Harry Potter
in the Chamber of Secrets. When Tom Riddle has her
under his spell, he has her to do all of
these things out of her character, out of her integrity,
to pease Tom. Am I playing the victim role by
(25:29):
saying this. Essentially Tom has manipulated me and had me
under his love spell. So that was so intoxicating and
fun and quote unquote intimate. He turns me against my family.
He said that my mom is gaslighting me and manipulating me,
and that she doesn't have my best interest at heart.
(25:53):
My mom has ulterior motives. He says, he tries to
talk me out of treatment. They're going to brainwash you.
There isn't such a thing called love addiction. This place
is a last ditch effort. Extending is a bad idea.
You are coming dependent on this place. He calls me
selfish for staying. I shared with him that I was
(26:15):
having really dark thoughts, and I told him I was
extending two more weeks. And he said that that was
a bad idea. And I said, I'm scared if I
come out of what might happen if I'm having these
dark thoughts. He said, that's still a bad idea. I've
been having to rough it out here alone.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
What does it feel like reading this stuff back?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Now? Let me think about this. I feel like I'm
very thankful that I've had this experience to go in
and get mental health care and intense trauma therapy, because
(27:04):
without it, I would have remained under Tom's spell. And
it took me like this, this is towards this is
towards the end of my journal. So it took me
all of this time to get to this point where
I was like, oh my god. He is always playing
(27:28):
the victim role. He is switching the script on me
to manipulate me and to control me, and he calls
me selfish, and reading this back, it's like, Wow, Yeah,
I really saw him for what he actually is. And
(27:50):
it's cool too because I've now been able to talk
about it on this podcast. I'm back. When I did
Bethany Frankel's podcast, I wasn't in the space to talk
about it so freely, So I think that just goes
to show like how far I've even come from that point,
(28:13):
because it's one thing to admit it to yourself and
it's another to admit it to the whole world. But yeah,
this was like the game changing journal entry. It's like
pages long of undeniable conversations.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
If you could go back and say something to that
girl who wrote both pages in the journal, what would
you say to her?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Who would say, I am so fricking proud of you.
I'm so proud of you that you are finally seeing
things for how they truly are and not living in
this land of alu usion. And this is exactly what
(29:04):
is needed to be able to break out of that
denial and to really face the facts, and the first
step to choosing a healthier, safer relationship that you ultimately want.
(29:25):
So I am so frickin' proud of you.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
So I want to switch gears a little bit to
something that James said to Tom. She got with you
because she wasn't quite over me. What are your thoughts
on that? And do you feel like that's really what happened.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I mean, I think it's just funny that he's interpreting
it this way because it feeds his ego, And in
a way, I guess it's a little bit true because
I was heartbroken over the fact that James moved on
with Ali so quickly and he was shoving it in
my face, or that I chose to film, and you know,
I guess I signed up for that heartbreak even though
(30:03):
I didn't even know what heartbreak really was. In a way,
I did get with Tom because I wasn't able to
process my emotions that I was feeling with James. And
I don't know, I think this whole conversation was weird though,
like it was kind of like they were trying to
(30:25):
one up each other and like claim their territory.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
It seems like he said that as almost like to
brag to Tom.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Did you yes, Yeah, totally, Yeah, I felt like he
was trying to one up him by being like, oh, well,
she only got with you because she wasn't over me. Yeah,
it's pretty clear that both of these guys have big egos.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Hearing him say that on the episode when you watched
it back, what was your gut reaction to that.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I wasn't even really caring what they were saying specifically.
It was more of like my reaction to that whole
conversation that they had. That back and forth with each
other just shows how idiotic both of them are. It
was very weird to watch and laughable. Really, I felt
(31:21):
really uncomfortable watching this entire episode, especially that scene.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
So Lisa says, what can Raquel possibly say that is
going to make anybody look at her in a better light?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Oh, Lisa vander Palm, you love to ride for your
Tom sand of all, But anything that I say will
never change people's points of view. It's like bizarre to me. Also,
the way that they were saying, like, oh, you know,
like Tom has been through so much and all of
these disclaimers at the beginning of the season of dark
(32:00):
thoughts and suicide to hotline stuff. It just seems like
production cares about Tom's mental health, but when it's like,
actually my mental health on the line, they don't take
it seriously. They don't care. They don't want to believe
that I'm actually going through something, but then they want
to baby Tom. It's just infuriating. It almost feels like hopeless.
(32:26):
I feel like I'm really fighting a battle that is
impossible to win because they're spinning all of this stuff
to put me in the worst light, and all I
want to do is move on. Then when they do
this and it's inaccurate, I have this urge to defend
(32:51):
myself because if I do want to keep moving and
living and trying to enjoy life without all of this toxicity,
and it's like I'm really fighting, but no matter what
(33:12):
I do, it just seems to be always wrong, Like
I can't win. So what do I do? I guess
I just have to like let go and surrender, or
it's like, what am I supposed to do? Just let
them talk about me and not defend myself?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Why do you feel this desire to defend yourself and
not just walk away completely?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Because I've worked so hard on myself, I've dedicated this
whole past year to bettering myself and to take accountability
and change my behavior. And I don't like being misrepresented.
(34:00):
And I think this is also the struggle too, of
battling with that need for validation and knowing what that
limit is, because at a certain point, it's like does
it even matter? Does it matter what other people think
of me? Like it should only really matter what the
(34:23):
people I interact with in person on a weekly basis
or daily basis, like actual real conversations and connections and friendships.
Feeling how I felt watching episode twelve of vander Pump
(34:43):
Rules this week just confirmed everything that I suspected because
just consuming it made me go mentally unwell. And if
(35:04):
I'm able to feel that way just by viewing it,
imagine how I would have felt experiencing it firsthand and
being in these conversations with these people that actually don't
have any regard for my mental well being at all.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Looking back on the Besiny interview, what are your thoughts
on it now? Do you regrete your decision? Would you
have done anything differently? Or do you stand by going
on the show and saying what you said.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I feel like it was the right decision for me
to be able to share my story freely, openly, which
gave me some control back in this world that was
completely out of my control. You know, all of these stories,
all of these lies. It was just very daunting and
(36:00):
it seemed like there was no light and Bethany gave
me a little bit of light at the end of
the tunnel. And I'm happy that I was able to
go on because I shared how I felt in my
thought process at that time, and like I worked my freakin'
butt off at the meadows to get down to the
(36:23):
bottom of it because I wanted to know for myself
so that I could choose better for myself next time.
And I feel like I was able to articulate exactly
what that was for me, and I am very proud
of that courage that it took to go on that podcast.
(36:45):
I think that it was the right decision for me.
Thank you so much for listening to Rachel Goesgrogue. Follow
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Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.