November 1, 2022 • 30 mins
Linsday and Rashad discuss the MLB enacting new rules in pursuit of a younger audience and what that means for baseball, and also get into the nitty gritty details of how Tom Brady's current woes (on and off the field) will affect his legacy and the potential financial hit he might take after he leaves football.
Special Guest Pharaoh Brown of the Cleveland Browns joins the show to discuss his wife's entrepreneurial pursuits, why he signed with Klutch Sports, and why he thinks he can definitely score a bucket on Lebron James in a game of one-on-one.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Special Guest Pharaoh Brown of the Cleveland Browns joins the show to discuss his wife's entrepreneurial pursuits, why he signed with Klutch Sports, and why he thinks he can definitely score a bucket on Lebron James in a game of one-on-one.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Never No, Never Big. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode
of Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is The Bag with me,
(00:21):
Lindsy mccorvick and my co host Rashaw Jennings. The Bag
sits at the intersection of sports and business, delving into
the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship, and enterprise.
Later in the episode, today we have an amazing interview
that Rashaw did with Cleveland Browns Tightened Pharaoh Brown and
his journey in the NFL as an undrafted free agent
(00:43):
and his business endeavors off the field with his wife.
But before we get into that, rash there's so much
news in sports in general right now. Uh. First of all,
the MLB is planning on changing some of the rules
of the game for next season, and they're planning on
(01:03):
adding in a pitch a pitch like timer to where
pictures only have x amount of time before they have
to get the ball off, and they're really changing up
the game. I think it's a ten second timer and
then a fifteen second timer. But my question to you,
as someone that has played in the NFL and has
(01:26):
seen his share of rule changes, is how do you
feel about messing with the rules of the game and
the history of the game, just to I think an MLB,
as we discussed prior to this, it seems like they
are trying to attract a younger audience. And but do
(01:49):
you feel like that's a good idea or do you
think that they're gonna end up losing their old audience
in in the process. Yeah. I mean some of some
of the greatest philosophers have said the only thing that's
constant has changed, right, So I understand changing changes coming
along with sports. It's not only to life. So NBA, right,
(02:10):
the three point line was not introduced until the nineteens
at late nineteen seventies, I believe it nineteen seventy nine
and eight season at the three point line was introduced, right,
So that was a rule change, Like, wow, this is
completely changing the game. Um. You know, players used to
get fined for breaking rims that were important in time
in the NBA, and then they changed the rules to
(02:33):
get to have breakaway breakaway rims. Right. Then you look
at football, Hans Ward uh created a whole new blonde
blonde spot rule. Right, Hans Ward had had hit Keith
Rivers and knocked this completely shattered his draw and he
missed the rest of the season, and they actually changed
their rule. Uh. Cowboys safety Roy Williams made the introduction
(02:56):
of the horse collar in two thousand and five. You
know that list goes on and on and on of
so many players that have changed rules of games. Baseball,
there isn't a necessarily player that's changing this rule. It's
not for safety reasons, um, like most sports do. It's
to try, it seems like, to try to enhance the
game and viewership of people, not being as for um,
(03:20):
you know, a lack of better word aboard. You know,
they want to speed up the game. I personally absolutely
love going to a baseball game and watching I think
it's one of the greatest atmospheres to be in. I
think these athletes are superior. Um. I cannot even come
close to playing baseball at a high school level, much
less collegiate and working my way up to the major leagues.
(03:42):
I am awful. With that being said, I actually get
to be purely and utterly nothing but a fan in
which I am not. I'm not a fan of baseball
because it's born to me. I love going to the game,
I love experiencing it. With people that love the game
because it's fun to watch them be soing through is
but for me it is born. I don't think speeding
up the speed count it's gonna make it all of
(04:04):
a sudden fun right there. Their demographic is what their
average is, fifty seven year old um individuals is watching
the sport if you speed it up. I don't think
my little nephew is gonna be like yo, baseball's fire now.
I'm watching the minute they ain't got they only got
a few seconds between pictures. I don't think that's gonna
be the answer to game more fans. I actually think
(04:26):
you may hinder losing what you already have. Uh, it's
like trying to speed up fishing. Did you imagine about
the fume putting out? The real really back? Like actually,
some people enjoy that piece, just like speeding up yoga,
Like what what do you mean speed up yoga? That
is the whole point you're meditating? Like, I don't know.
I think they're playing with some tricky waters there, but
(04:48):
we'll see. I'll set back and uh enjoy the outcome
either way. I I love watching the MLB playoffs. I
love watching the NBA playoffs, Like there's something extra special
when the players care and every theer seasons on the
line after a very long season. But I'm with you.
(05:08):
The only people I know that watch every single baseball
game during the regular season are my dad, my father
in law, like everyone in my life that is over
the age of I guess sixty so. And there's something
(05:28):
meditative about listening to a baseball game on the radio,
which those individuals in my life love doing, as opposed
to it being young and hip, and you're watching it
on television with all the cool graphics and social media handles,
and it doesn't seem that that's It seems like these
(05:49):
rule changes are targeted towards that demographic, but yet they
should be trying to preserve the audience they have, the
ones that love the history of the game that I've
watched the Yankees for decades and decades, and my grandma
in St. Louis, who watched every single Cardinals game until
the day she died. It was she, I mean, she
(06:14):
didn't miss a game. And if they had sped up
the the pitching timer, and I found the exact rules,
so it's there will be a fifteen second timer with
the base is empty and a twenty second timer with
runners on base. I think it may add an element
of competition between the players, and maybe it'll make the
(06:35):
regular season more exciting for someone like me who's a
fan that doesn't really watch every single game during the
regular season, but definitely doesn't miss games during the postseason.
But I think you might lose, you might lose some
fans in the process. So I have I'm with you.
I don't think it's a smart move, but I also
(06:58):
don't really love change them tell a little change that
much that listen. I think it's just it's, uh, we
had to set wait and see, we'll see, we'll speak
from it in hindsight, but I think this should be deferred.
U two fans of the sport itself, and how much
is gonna change how they view it? Who knows? It
could uh you know for a new generation, new decade
(07:21):
of um, you know, kids growing up. Maybe they appreciate
the speed of the game more now. But I think
you heard in a I think you heard in a
traditional fan me too. So another topic that's been uh,
very interesting is Aby has started in off the field
(07:44):
this venture, and I'm actually curious how much money he's
made in this off the field business venture of selling
T shirts with Gazelle on it. What do you what
do you think about this? Aby is, Uh, he's doing
his thing. He he's being a b um. He has
a T shirt out for sale with him. Um it
(08:06):
looks like the shirt was from the celebration of winning
the Super Bowl. Um, you know, hugging everybody, hug Giselle.
And he's selling that shirt and he's trying to say
he's raising money for fatherless kids in America, which, uh,
you know, it's quite the irony of that for for
(08:26):
him to do it, But I guess you know, I
love that because still at the end of the day,
I don't know how true it is, right, it could
be a parody, but you know, what he's bringing attention
is something that is very important, and that is fatherless children.
But the way he's doing it, obviously, I don't know
how many people are gonna take that serious. They're looking
at the joke and um, the poke at Tom Brady
(08:46):
going through a divorce. I A b is just being
a b um. I think one of the things that
b understands is that views equals currency, Attention equals currency.
In today's market, um, and he knows how to get that.
Speaking of currency, do you think that Tom Brady staying
(09:09):
coming out of retirement and staying an extra season, do
you think he's gonna end up losing money because of this,
because it seems like he's really tanking his image and
his name, image and likeness is not going to be
worth the same amount after this season. Yeah, if it
continues to go to the way that it is, um
(09:30):
losing to the Stillers at one in four, then loser
to the Panthers. I believe they were one in five,
and Um obviously missing practices because he wants to go
to weddings, missing eleven games issues me eleven practices during
training camp, which is obviously instrumental to a football team.
I get it. He's a veteran. He's going to do
his thing. He Yeah, Tom Brady is great and all
(09:51):
of that, but when you are the quarterback, it's not
about You's about the team and the reason why Tom
has been so successful looking at it from a distance
and playing against him, never with them, Tom is successful
because he's always there. I mean, he is the coach,
he is the offensive coordinator with the football in his hand.
So when he isn't there. Yeah he's fine, but the
(10:15):
team isn't see Tom is not an insert he So
if Tom was playing basketball, he would be the player
that had to have the ball in his hands. Some
players are really outstanding right in basketball, but when you
pair them with other grades, it's like yo, it doesn't
work because the game is ran through them at their
old team, right. The game runs through Tom when he's
(10:38):
on the team. So when you're a player that everybody
has to uh maneuver around and adjust too, isn't there
shows up sometimes and maybe he's not emotionally available, he's
not you know, mentally available. It's gonna make a big difference.
And so yeah Tom, uh Tom tripping right now, but
(11:00):
you know everybody trips at some point. It's just he's
on it the microscope, um and it is his is
his turn to you know, dig himself out of a hole.
I hope he does or his shake and for the
team's sake, it seems like he has a very narrow
focus in life right now. And he came out and
said that he's never quitted anything, and he is not
(11:20):
going to start by quitting this football season. But everyone
else in America that's seeing the bigger picture is like, well,
you're quitting on your marriage, you're quitting on your family.
So you actually are quitting. It's something, and we're not
viewing it as like, oh, what a role model. You're
staying on your team and helping those guys. They're all
(11:42):
gonna be fine, they're all getting paid, they're all gonna
be fine. But your family may not be. Your kids
may not be. And I think America really is seeing
the bigger picture, which it's a good thing, but he
clearly is not. You know, the funny thing about quitting,
like you can look at that to push that a
little bit on that look at it from the other
um pendulum. He's not quitting his marriage. Um, maybe it's
(12:09):
quitting him, I don't know. Or maybe he's not quitting
from his family. Maybe uh, he's just not succeeding. J
Quitting doesn't equal success, right, Sometimes you need to quit things.
People need to quit doing drugs. Like quitting isn't a problem.
What it is is not succeeding at the right things
(12:30):
is the issue. Right, And so you know, in this situation,
obviously Mo'm speaking from myself. I'm not married yet, look
forward to being married I love marriage. I think it's
the most beautiful gift, UM that that that one can have. UM.
I don't want to wash my time talking about I
think marriage is awesome. So you know, potentially, what Tom
has maybe one two more years max right to play.
(12:54):
And I can't say that the reason why he's getting
divorces because he came back to sports. But though I
did dinner did I did an interview back in like May,
and people was like asking about Tom Brady coming out
of retirement, what do you think? And I was like, hey, listen,
to be honest, I think something's probably going on off
the field or at home, maybe that he's not excited about.
(13:15):
I didn't know it was this, right, I don't know Tom,
but I say that to say this, two more years
of being successful in sports where you've already had every
acculated possible right versus potentially fifty more years of your
life in a successful family and marriage. Which one do you?
Which one have you been for? And then you got
(13:37):
a three hundred million or like a three hundred million
dollar contract you know for uh for commentating, setting setting
there waiting for you once you're retire. That granted, it's
not all the ways about the money, right, you want?
Championships doesn't equal money, and I don't think Brady is
money hungry. Obviously he's he's successful, his wife successful, his
family said, everybody is good. From from a fun answer standpoint,
(14:00):
I think Tom obviously loves a game, but there's only
time can answer that. I only can speculate. But man,
hindsight looking in from afar, which I'm not judging at all,
I'm picking my marriage over over here, y'all. Yeah, yeah,
it's straight up now, you know what in a perfect
(14:21):
world for me, this is me selfishly right. Only can
speak from my opinion, but I think one voice always
represents millions. I would love to see Tom say, you
know what, I quit football and I'm gonna go try
to save my marriage. Man. I would support the everything
(14:42):
out of that, and I think athletes and a lot
of people would too. Now, granted, he doesn't have to
live for us. It ain't about us. I am just
behind the mic sharing my opinion in that's it. From
a business standpoint, I think his life would thrive if
he made that decision because he would likable again, not
that he's I mean, it's a mixed it's a mixed
(15:03):
feeling if you can, if you start to see what
the media headlines looked like for him even a year
ago when he came out of retirement versus now when
you google Tom Brady, what you're seeing in the headlines,
it seems like he would benefit financially and from a
business standpoint if he made that decision to quit, because
(15:24):
people would say, Okay, I have a little respect for
him that he decided, you know what, I have done
everything I can in the NFL and in my at
my craft, and now I'm gonna go and prioritize my family,
And I think that would make him more likable and
therefore would get more business deals. People would watch his broadcasts,
(15:45):
and from business standpoint, I think it's like a smart
decision too. But I think Tom Brady, in order to
be successful in the National Football League, you have to
have discipline, integrity, you have to be a self motive.
Later um, you have to be a great communicator. You
have to be all of these things that garners success.
(16:08):
There's no difference in your marriage, there's no different in
your business ventures. So um, you know, Tom Brady obviously
as the tangibilities to be successful in anything he focuses on,
and um, you know it's just for me personally. Again,
this is me personally. It would be an odd story
(16:29):
for Tom Brady to win a super Bowl while he's
going through a divorce. Yeah, it's just for me. It's
just odd, But that's me personally where I put the
premium of marriage over winning football games. It's a better
work life balance and just a better view on life
in general in my opinion. Anyways, you had a chance
(16:51):
to speak to someone else who was it seems like
he's making amazing decisions on and off the field. And
it's clear and Brown's tightened. Pharaoh Brown, and you spoke
to him about his journey in the NFL. Is an
undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field
with his wife. So it seems like he has a
pretty good balanced work life balance. And I'm excited to
(17:14):
hear this interview. So let's take a listen, Pharaoh Brown.
My man appreciates your sliding through the bag for us.
How you doing, I'm doing great, man, Thanks for having me. Yes, sir, yes, sir,
so size wise your monster. I want to feel your monster, man,
So to tell us how how you got into the
(17:36):
NFL will give us a little bit of your background
for anybody that may be hearing you for the very
first time ever. Uh. Growing up, I played football, but
then I kind of like switched the basketball because I
was I was just that's just my height and everything.
You know, everybody just wanted to be Hoopers back in
the day. And Uh, I was in high school and
(17:56):
the guy was like I was going to like little
visits and my football coaches like he's like, man, you
need to come play football. It's like my sophomore year,
he was like, with your size at six seven, you
will go to the league, just because he was like
in basketball, you know, it's a toss up, like there's
a lot of six heaven people. So he's like he basically,
(18:17):
do you want to go to the NFL? Or like
do you want to like for sure stemp and go
pro or you know, uh keep messed around with football,
like I mean with basketball, And I was like, I
want to go pro, and uh, I switched over my
junior year, I was playing the quarterback in defensive and
and and then Chip Kelly came out. It was like, man,
(18:39):
you were tight end and I was like all right,
So like I never played tight in so so the
next year, senior year I played, I switched the tight end,
decommitted from Michigan, went to Oregon and that's how I
kind of like jump started my career. That's crazy. So
(18:59):
you you committed, what made you de commited with with
different positions? It was different positions and you know, like
when you're going through that process, man, those uh the
Michigan coaches was like, oh, you can't take any business.
It's kind of like you're married. And you know, I
wanted to go check out Oregon when I was committed,
you know, just weighing all my options, but uh, they didn't.
(19:20):
They didn't kind of like that, and the head coach
and came to my high school and you know, it
was like why did you go while used to do this,
and you know, I'm a kid. I'm like all right, Well,
like I get five visits, I feel like you should
I should be exported by options. So it was just
kind of a little I didn't like how they handle
that situation. Got you. I totally understand that, man. But
that's funny. I've never heard the combination of somebody playing
(19:42):
because I played both sides, play running back, you know,
and play linebacker, kick punter like you do everything right.
But I've never heard the combination of a quarterback turning
around and going to play defensive. And that's a different one.
So so I before we keep going, I gotta know,
I played both sides of the ball, so it's a
running back. One time I phone with the ball right,
so boom, I'm mad. I'm automatically on defense. So I
(20:04):
got a lot of amosity to go hunt down somebody.
Have you ever thrown a pick? They got real piste off,
you know, on defense and then go try to try
to get to do the picture or something, because I
I that's kind of energy I had in high school.
Uh not really, I mean we was we was just
we was read ob we was barely throwing the career.
(20:25):
We were Uh, we was just running it, running the read.
I was scrambling all around and uh but you never
know picks, but I just should when I would get
I would just know, like what the quarterback was doing.
So I used to just go here everything. I love it, man,
I love it. So fast forward us a little bit.
(20:45):
Tell us about your NFL career. UM. It was the
first team you played with, UM and he was undrafted,
I do believe, right. So I was undrafted to the Raiders,
and uh man, my career has just been a grinding
the journey, and I kind of wouldn't change it. I mean,
I'm in my six year and I haven't had the
same coaching staff or the same position coach yet, you know,
(21:08):
so every year it was like so much turn over.
So as an undrafted guy, you're coming, You're like building
with an old staff and they like you, and you know, uh,
obviously it's being undrafted. You know, you're kind of on
the bottom by the total post are You're working your
way up, and then that coaching staff leave, you get
a newes. So you just kind of started over every year,
(21:29):
and really, you know, I learned the politics of the game,
you know, I learned how to be a pro. My
I went from Oakland to the raid I mean I
went from the Raiders to the Browns, and then from
the Browns, I went to the Texas and I'm back
to the Browns. So I had three stops building those
three stops, I had like six seven coaches changes. So
(21:51):
I mean, you just kind of learned a lot through
the through the journey and the the process as you know.
So I mean it helped me be the product I
m today. So man, keep doing that, man. So but
take us out a little bit on your career path.
I know you played with the Raiders. Wait wait, so
how was your experience that? Did you play in the
baseball field? Unfortunately? Okay, So we shared that in common, man,
(22:13):
because when I was there, who played on the baseball field?
They used to bring in? Did they bringing the tacos
on Tuesdays to the facility? Yeah? For sure? Nice. And
you're from Ohio, right, I from Cleveland. So you're from
Cleveland and now you're playing with the Cleveland Browns. How
how does that feel? Man? That's like a childhood dream.
(22:33):
I feel like it's definitely surreal, like you know, passing
that stadium when you're growing up and now you're playing
in it, you know, and now like I'm like, first off,
like that undrafted guy. You know. Now I'm back home.
Everybody knows me, so I'm way more like you know,
every I go in and wherevery like, oh that's that's fair,
you know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like
(22:55):
it's different here. You know, you're seeing everybody that you
freaking you know, you go to the grocery store, or
you played with Buddy and Mutt in the Pop Warner
and high school. Now you're playing for the ProTeam and
in Cleveland, it's not much to do. So everybody watching
the Browns game, so you know, everybody got the opinion
or what needs to be done and stuff. So you
gotta go through all that. But I mean, it's definitely
(23:18):
it's definitely a great being back. And so tell us
a little bit about your wife's business. Understand that she has, uh,
she has her own company. Yeah, she uh, she had
had her she had started her business and uh when
I was in college, so she was she wasn't living
in Salt Lake City. Starts she was a nail technician
(23:40):
and she kind of uh just found like you know,
she had had she had had a rare eye cancer
that she ended up beating and uh just kind of
got like on the healthy thing and like figure starts
seeing like how all the critic and all that stuff
was basically like bad for bath, for the nail and
(24:00):
all that good stuff. So she cured her own jail
nail line and uh man din't on her own And
when I got drafted, not drafted. When I went undrafted,
you know, I always wanted her to have her own identity.
So in the off seasons, you know, I would go
back to Utah just so it was like in the season,
(24:21):
it was like my time. But then in the off season,
you know, we was going back to you talk of
her time, and I was like, you know, I'll do
I'll be to get to work out end and get
right and get ready for the season. But I mean
it's awesome just seeing their grind and uh seeing her
like you know through COVID and all that stuff, like
you know, all the stuff with China and the ship,
(24:43):
and I mean it was crazy. It was all kind
of like you know, just a little hiccups that people
really don't see when you you know, you just see
the end. You just see the end result. But it's like,
I mean, all the little stuff going on, you know,
you start finding a politics, it started affecting real business,
and you know, realizing she she's been able to, uh
she thrived through all of that, and you know it's
(25:05):
still going to il the point like she's in Houston
right now and the business is still thriving. So uh
shouts out to her for that and you know it's
going good. You know when I got when I just
gotta let go. She was like, you know she was
She made a comment like, well, if you're not happy,
you know you can you can, uh, you can stop
(25:27):
playing and I can pay the bills. And I'd be like,
even if I was not lad, I would be doing something,
you know what I mean. But uh, it's just good
to always just have somebody. You know. When I was young,
I used to I just remember, man, I would see
like guys come in and they watched this at home
(25:47):
and just waiting for them to get there. And it's
like they have nothing else to do with their time
and you gotta get there and deal with that. And
I was like, I do not want that. So uh,
I never wanted that. I never thought I would live
in Utah, but I knew that I did want the
other side of it. So I was like, you know,
I didn't. I wanted her to have her own identity.
(26:08):
So she's been doing great and uh super bad. Before girl,
I see that you have moved around on a few teams,
and I'm wondering, um, have you started to prepare yourself
for after football? I chose to play with the New
York Giants because I knew playing in the mecca of everything,
I could leverage that position. So have you started to
(26:31):
leverage playing in the NFL because you know just as
well as I do, that key can open up doors
that a degree cannot. Definitely, Uh, leveraging and just leveraging
my network. Everywhere I've been, I've always networked, you know,
even when I was Ricky in Oakland, you know, uh
inrees and Horowitz was like a big Raiders guy. So
(26:54):
he had like a big barbecue for private equity and
you know, the I'm undrafted Ricky bro I don't know
if Lamont was there when you was there. Uh, but
Lamont was like, you know, I would never let it
racked Rickie do. But like he let me go to
the He invited me to go to the Doude Baryque,
you know. So I've always just been that way. Uh.
(27:17):
So I really just network. So talking about networking, I
too believe that it is crucial to the success of
anybody to tell us a little bit about the network
that you're part of in your agency, and you know
why you chose them and how much that played a
role in your decision making. Uh, I got with a
(27:37):
clus Sports which is uh was based out of from
le Bron, and uh, when it was coming up, they
was just you know, rich and all them. It was
really just basketball. But you know, like rich Paul had
knew like my mom and you know, from the same
area as my family, so he had knew of me
(28:00):
and growing up. And uh. One of the other agents
that came up with Richards Kelly, who was actually my
agent on the football side. But when I was coming out,
you know, they were just still basketball and I mean
they really wasn't a football So, uh, I just got
to a point to you know, we're just made sense
and going back home and just already having that relationship
(28:23):
and being able to talk. You know, it's just different
when you know what I'm saying a network side, It's
just made sense for me, all right. Man. Look, I'm
not trying to start any beef here at all. But
you stand at six five six six to fifty, you
know Lebron with the sports agency. I gotta ask you
one on one. You're on Lebron, do you think you
(28:45):
at least score a bucket? Will he drop a bucket? Yeah? No,
not you. You you're scoring a bucket. You think you're
gonna score a bucket versus Lebron, but sure dropping the
buck Bron big on the football side, I'll be on
the back people outside. But you know our body, you
know what I mean. I like I like my chances. Yeah,
(29:07):
I hear you, man. I'm sure. I'm sure he appreciates
here in the competitiveness you have him and and I'm
sure he loves representing you. Man. So um, listen, I
appreciate you taking the time to jump on the bag.
I wish you the most success the rest of the season.
Stay healthy, we'll chase the playoffs, go get a super Bowl.
And I know your wife is gonna stay on your
(29:29):
tail and keep you sharp. Man. So all love to
see that. Um, but we'll we'll catch you. We'll catch you,
and we'll catch you next time. Definite appreciate it. Man,
I'm gonna get clutched on his desk with the stars.
Now I need to add, you know the next athlete
to win with you know right? Hey, I got you.
Don't look no further. Man, If you need anybody to
come help and you slide, hit me up, man, don't hesitate.
(29:52):
I got you. Appreciate you girl. Alright, that wraps up
another episode of The Bag. Shout out to sports l
Straight It in our Heart Radio making this possible. Make
sure you tune in subscribe on all channels and all
platforms where you consume the podcast, because we have some
amazing guests coming on Next at you, Next time you
(30:18):
g
Never No, Never Big. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode
of Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is The Bag with me,
(00:21):
Lindsy mccorvick and my co host Rashaw Jennings. The Bag
sits at the intersection of sports and business, delving into
the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship, and enterprise.
Later in the episode, today we have an amazing interview
that Rashaw did with Cleveland Browns Tightened Pharaoh Brown and
his journey in the NFL as an undrafted free agent
(00:43):
and his business endeavors off the field with his wife.
But before we get into that, rash there's so much
news in sports in general right now. Uh. First of all,
the MLB is planning on changing some of the rules
of the game for next season, and they're planning on
(01:03):
adding in a pitch a pitch like timer to where
pictures only have x amount of time before they have
to get the ball off, and they're really changing up
the game. I think it's a ten second timer and
then a fifteen second timer. But my question to you,
as someone that has played in the NFL and has
(01:26):
seen his share of rule changes, is how do you
feel about messing with the rules of the game and
the history of the game, just to I think an MLB,
as we discussed prior to this, it seems like they
are trying to attract a younger audience. And but do
(01:49):
you feel like that's a good idea or do you
think that they're gonna end up losing their old audience
in in the process. Yeah. I mean some of some
of the greatest philosophers have said the only thing that's
constant has changed, right, So I understand changing changes coming
along with sports. It's not only to life. So NBA, right,
(02:10):
the three point line was not introduced until the nineteens
at late nineteen seventies, I believe it nineteen seventy nine
and eight season at the three point line was introduced, right,
So that was a rule change, Like, wow, this is
completely changing the game. Um. You know, players used to
get fined for breaking rims that were important in time
in the NBA, and then they changed the rules to
(02:33):
get to have breakaway breakaway rims. Right. Then you look
at football, Hans Ward uh created a whole new blonde
blonde spot rule. Right, Hans Ward had had hit Keith
Rivers and knocked this completely shattered his draw and he
missed the rest of the season, and they actually changed
their rule. Uh. Cowboys safety Roy Williams made the introduction
(02:56):
of the horse collar in two thousand and five. You
know that list goes on and on and on of
so many players that have changed rules of games. Baseball,
there isn't a necessarily player that's changing this rule. It's
not for safety reasons, um, like most sports do. It's
to try, it seems like, to try to enhance the
game and viewership of people, not being as for um,
(03:20):
you know, a lack of better word aboard. You know,
they want to speed up the game. I personally absolutely
love going to a baseball game and watching I think
it's one of the greatest atmospheres to be in. I
think these athletes are superior. Um. I cannot even come
close to playing baseball at a high school level, much
less collegiate and working my way up to the major leagues.
(03:42):
I am awful. With that being said, I actually get
to be purely and utterly nothing but a fan in
which I am not. I'm not a fan of baseball
because it's born to me. I love going to the game,
I love experiencing it. With people that love the game
because it's fun to watch them be soing through is
but for me it is born. I don't think speeding
up the speed count it's gonna make it all of
(04:04):
a sudden fun right there. Their demographic is what their
average is, fifty seven year old um individuals is watching
the sport if you speed it up. I don't think
my little nephew is gonna be like yo, baseball's fire now.
I'm watching the minute they ain't got they only got
a few seconds between pictures. I don't think that's gonna
be the answer to game more fans. I actually think
(04:26):
you may hinder losing what you already have. Uh, it's
like trying to speed up fishing. Did you imagine about
the fume putting out? The real really back? Like actually,
some people enjoy that piece, just like speeding up yoga,
Like what what do you mean speed up yoga? That
is the whole point you're meditating? Like, I don't know.
I think they're playing with some tricky waters there, but
(04:48):
we'll see. I'll set back and uh enjoy the outcome
either way. I I love watching the MLB playoffs. I
love watching the NBA playoffs, Like there's something extra special
when the players care and every theer seasons on the
line after a very long season. But I'm with you.
(05:08):
The only people I know that watch every single baseball
game during the regular season are my dad, my father
in law, like everyone in my life that is over
the age of I guess sixty so. And there's something
(05:28):
meditative about listening to a baseball game on the radio,
which those individuals in my life love doing, as opposed
to it being young and hip, and you're watching it
on television with all the cool graphics and social media handles,
and it doesn't seem that that's It seems like these
(05:49):
rule changes are targeted towards that demographic, but yet they
should be trying to preserve the audience they have, the
ones that love the history of the game that I've
watched the Yankees for decades and decades, and my grandma
in St. Louis, who watched every single Cardinals game until
the day she died. It was she, I mean, she
(06:14):
didn't miss a game. And if they had sped up
the the pitching timer, and I found the exact rules,
so it's there will be a fifteen second timer with
the base is empty and a twenty second timer with
runners on base. I think it may add an element
of competition between the players, and maybe it'll make the
(06:35):
regular season more exciting for someone like me who's a
fan that doesn't really watch every single game during the
regular season, but definitely doesn't miss games during the postseason.
But I think you might lose, you might lose some
fans in the process. So I have I'm with you.
I don't think it's a smart move, but I also
(06:58):
don't really love change them tell a little change that
much that listen. I think it's just it's, uh, we
had to set wait and see, we'll see, we'll speak
from it in hindsight, but I think this should be deferred.
U two fans of the sport itself, and how much
is gonna change how they view it? Who knows? It
could uh you know for a new generation, new decade
(07:21):
of um, you know, kids growing up. Maybe they appreciate
the speed of the game more now. But I think
you heard in a I think you heard in a
traditional fan me too. So another topic that's been uh,
very interesting is Aby has started in off the field
(07:44):
this venture, and I'm actually curious how much money he's
made in this off the field business venture of selling
T shirts with Gazelle on it. What do you what
do you think about this? Aby is, Uh, he's doing
his thing. He he's being a b um. He has
a T shirt out for sale with him. Um it
(08:06):
looks like the shirt was from the celebration of winning
the Super Bowl. Um, you know, hugging everybody, hug Giselle.
And he's selling that shirt and he's trying to say
he's raising money for fatherless kids in America, which, uh,
you know, it's quite the irony of that for for
(08:26):
him to do it, But I guess you know, I
love that because still at the end of the day,
I don't know how true it is, right, it could
be a parody, but you know, what he's bringing attention
is something that is very important, and that is fatherless children.
But the way he's doing it, obviously, I don't know
how many people are gonna take that serious. They're looking
at the joke and um, the poke at Tom Brady
(08:46):
going through a divorce. I A b is just being
a b um. I think one of the things that
b understands is that views equals currency, Attention equals currency.
In today's market, um, and he knows how to get that.
Speaking of currency, do you think that Tom Brady staying
(09:09):
coming out of retirement and staying an extra season, do
you think he's gonna end up losing money because of this,
because it seems like he's really tanking his image and
his name, image and likeness is not going to be
worth the same amount after this season. Yeah, if it
continues to go to the way that it is, um
(09:30):
losing to the Stillers at one in four, then loser
to the Panthers. I believe they were one in five,
and Um obviously missing practices because he wants to go
to weddings, missing eleven games issues me eleven practices during
training camp, which is obviously instrumental to a football team.
I get it. He's a veteran. He's going to do
his thing. He Yeah, Tom Brady is great and all
(09:51):
of that, but when you are the quarterback, it's not
about You's about the team and the reason why Tom
has been so successful looking at it from a distance
and playing against him, never with them, Tom is successful
because he's always there. I mean, he is the coach,
he is the offensive coordinator with the football in his hand.
So when he isn't there. Yeah he's fine, but the
(10:15):
team isn't see Tom is not an insert he So
if Tom was playing basketball, he would be the player
that had to have the ball in his hands. Some
players are really outstanding right in basketball, but when you
pair them with other grades, it's like yo, it doesn't
work because the game is ran through them at their
old team, right. The game runs through Tom when he's
(10:38):
on the team. So when you're a player that everybody
has to uh maneuver around and adjust too, isn't there
shows up sometimes and maybe he's not emotionally available, he's
not you know, mentally available. It's gonna make a big difference.
And so yeah Tom, uh Tom tripping right now, but
(11:00):
you know everybody trips at some point. It's just he's
on it the microscope, um and it is his is
his turn to you know, dig himself out of a hole.
I hope he does or his shake and for the
team's sake, it seems like he has a very narrow
focus in life right now. And he came out and
said that he's never quitted anything, and he is not
(11:20):
going to start by quitting this football season. But everyone
else in America that's seeing the bigger picture is like, well,
you're quitting on your marriage, you're quitting on your family.
So you actually are quitting. It's something, and we're not
viewing it as like, oh, what a role model. You're
staying on your team and helping those guys. They're all
(11:42):
gonna be fine, they're all getting paid, they're all gonna
be fine. But your family may not be. Your kids
may not be. And I think America really is seeing
the bigger picture, which it's a good thing, but he
clearly is not. You know, the funny thing about quitting,
like you can look at that to push that a
little bit on that look at it from the other
um pendulum. He's not quitting his marriage. Um, maybe it's
(12:09):
quitting him, I don't know. Or maybe he's not quitting
from his family. Maybe uh, he's just not succeeding. J
Quitting doesn't equal success, right, Sometimes you need to quit things.
People need to quit doing drugs. Like quitting isn't a problem.
What it is is not succeeding at the right things
(12:30):
is the issue. Right, And so you know, in this situation,
obviously Mo'm speaking from myself. I'm not married yet, look
forward to being married I love marriage. I think it's
the most beautiful gift, UM that that that one can have. UM.
I don't want to wash my time talking about I
think marriage is awesome. So you know, potentially, what Tom
has maybe one two more years max right to play.
(12:54):
And I can't say that the reason why he's getting
divorces because he came back to sports. But though I
did dinner did I did an interview back in like May,
and people was like asking about Tom Brady coming out
of retirement, what do you think? And I was like, hey, listen,
to be honest, I think something's probably going on off
the field or at home, maybe that he's not excited about.
(13:15):
I didn't know it was this, right, I don't know Tom,
but I say that to say this, two more years
of being successful in sports where you've already had every
acculated possible right versus potentially fifty more years of your
life in a successful family and marriage. Which one do you?
Which one have you been for? And then you got
(13:37):
a three hundred million or like a three hundred million
dollar contract you know for uh for commentating, setting setting
there waiting for you once you're retire. That granted, it's
not all the ways about the money, right, you want?
Championships doesn't equal money, and I don't think Brady is
money hungry. Obviously he's he's successful, his wife successful, his
family said, everybody is good. From from a fun answer standpoint,
(14:00):
I think Tom obviously loves a game, but there's only
time can answer that. I only can speculate. But man,
hindsight looking in from afar, which I'm not judging at all,
I'm picking my marriage over over here, y'all. Yeah, yeah,
it's straight up now, you know what in a perfect
(14:21):
world for me, this is me selfishly right. Only can
speak from my opinion, but I think one voice always
represents millions. I would love to see Tom say, you
know what, I quit football and I'm gonna go try
to save my marriage. Man. I would support the everything
(14:42):
out of that, and I think athletes and a lot
of people would too. Now, granted, he doesn't have to
live for us. It ain't about us. I am just
behind the mic sharing my opinion in that's it. From
a business standpoint, I think his life would thrive if
he made that decision because he would likable again, not
that he's I mean, it's a mixed it's a mixed
(15:03):
feeling if you can, if you start to see what
the media headlines looked like for him even a year
ago when he came out of retirement versus now when
you google Tom Brady, what you're seeing in the headlines,
it seems like he would benefit financially and from a
business standpoint if he made that decision to quit, because
(15:24):
people would say, Okay, I have a little respect for
him that he decided, you know what, I have done
everything I can in the NFL and in my at
my craft, and now I'm gonna go and prioritize my family,
And I think that would make him more likable and
therefore would get more business deals. People would watch his broadcasts,
(15:45):
and from business standpoint, I think it's like a smart
decision too. But I think Tom Brady, in order to
be successful in the National Football League, you have to
have discipline, integrity, you have to be a self motive.
Later um, you have to be a great communicator. You
have to be all of these things that garners success.
(16:08):
There's no difference in your marriage, there's no different in
your business ventures. So um, you know, Tom Brady obviously
as the tangibilities to be successful in anything he focuses on,
and um, you know it's just for me personally. Again,
this is me personally. It would be an odd story
(16:29):
for Tom Brady to win a super Bowl while he's
going through a divorce. Yeah, it's just for me. It's
just odd, But that's me personally where I put the
premium of marriage over winning football games. It's a better
work life balance and just a better view on life
in general in my opinion. Anyways, you had a chance
(16:51):
to speak to someone else who was it seems like
he's making amazing decisions on and off the field. And
it's clear and Brown's tightened. Pharaoh Brown, and you spoke
to him about his journey in the NFL. Is an
undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field
with his wife. So it seems like he has a
pretty good balanced work life balance. And I'm excited to
(17:14):
hear this interview. So let's take a listen, Pharaoh Brown.
My man appreciates your sliding through the bag for us.
How you doing, I'm doing great, man, Thanks for having me. Yes, sir, yes, sir,
so size wise your monster. I want to feel your monster, man,
So to tell us how how you got into the
(17:36):
NFL will give us a little bit of your background
for anybody that may be hearing you for the very
first time ever. Uh. Growing up, I played football, but
then I kind of like switched the basketball because I
was I was just that's just my height and everything.
You know, everybody just wanted to be Hoopers back in
the day. And Uh, I was in high school and
(17:56):
the guy was like I was going to like little
visits and my football coaches like he's like, man, you
need to come play football. It's like my sophomore year,
he was like, with your size at six seven, you
will go to the league, just because he was like
in basketball, you know, it's a toss up, like there's
a lot of six heaven people. So he's like he basically,
(18:17):
do you want to go to the NFL? Or like
do you want to like for sure stemp and go
pro or you know, uh keep messed around with football,
like I mean with basketball, And I was like, I
want to go pro, and uh, I switched over my
junior year, I was playing the quarterback in defensive and
and and then Chip Kelly came out. It was like, man,
(18:39):
you were tight end and I was like all right,
So like I never played tight in so so the
next year, senior year I played, I switched the tight end,
decommitted from Michigan, went to Oregon and that's how I
kind of like jump started my career. That's crazy. So
(18:59):
you you committed, what made you de commited with with
different positions? It was different positions and you know, like
when you're going through that process, man, those uh the
Michigan coaches was like, oh, you can't take any business.
It's kind of like you're married. And you know, I
wanted to go check out Oregon when I was committed,
you know, just weighing all my options, but uh, they didn't.
(19:20):
They didn't kind of like that, and the head coach
and came to my high school and you know, it
was like why did you go while used to do this,
and you know, I'm a kid. I'm like all right, Well,
like I get five visits, I feel like you should
I should be exported by options. So it was just
kind of a little I didn't like how they handle
that situation. Got you. I totally understand that, man. But
that's funny. I've never heard the combination of somebody playing
(19:42):
because I played both sides, play running back, you know,
and play linebacker, kick punter like you do everything right.
But I've never heard the combination of a quarterback turning
around and going to play defensive. And that's a different one.
So so I before we keep going, I gotta know,
I played both sides of the ball, so it's a
running back. One time I phone with the ball right,
so boom, I'm mad. I'm automatically on defense. So I
(20:04):
got a lot of amosity to go hunt down somebody.
Have you ever thrown a pick? They got real piste off,
you know, on defense and then go try to try
to get to do the picture or something, because I
I that's kind of energy I had in high school.
Uh not really, I mean we was we was just
we was read ob we was barely throwing the career.
(20:25):
We were Uh, we was just running it, running the read.
I was scrambling all around and uh but you never
know picks, but I just should when I would get
I would just know, like what the quarterback was doing.
So I used to just go here everything. I love it, man,
I love it. So fast forward us a little bit.
(20:45):
Tell us about your NFL career. UM. It was the
first team you played with, UM and he was undrafted,
I do believe, right. So I was undrafted to the Raiders,
and uh man, my career has just been a grinding
the journey, and I kind of wouldn't change it. I mean,
I'm in my six year and I haven't had the
same coaching staff or the same position coach yet, you know,
(21:08):
so every year it was like so much turn over.
So as an undrafted guy, you're coming, You're like building
with an old staff and they like you, and you know, uh,
obviously it's being undrafted. You know, you're kind of on
the bottom by the total post are You're working your
way up, and then that coaching staff leave, you get
a newes. So you just kind of started over every year,
(21:29):
and really, you know, I learned the politics of the game,
you know, I learned how to be a pro. My
I went from Oakland to the raid I mean I
went from the Raiders to the Browns, and then from
the Browns, I went to the Texas and I'm back
to the Browns. So I had three stops building those
three stops, I had like six seven coaches changes. So
(21:51):
I mean, you just kind of learned a lot through
the through the journey and the the process as you know.
So I mean it helped me be the product I
m today. So man, keep doing that, man. So but
take us out a little bit on your career path.
I know you played with the Raiders. Wait wait, so
how was your experience that? Did you play in the
baseball field? Unfortunately? Okay, So we shared that in common, man,
(22:13):
because when I was there, who played on the baseball field?
They used to bring in? Did they bringing the tacos
on Tuesdays to the facility? Yeah? For sure? Nice. And
you're from Ohio, right, I from Cleveland. So you're from
Cleveland and now you're playing with the Cleveland Browns. How
how does that feel? Man? That's like a childhood dream.
(22:33):
I feel like it's definitely surreal, like you know, passing
that stadium when you're growing up and now you're playing
in it, you know, and now like I'm like, first off,
like that undrafted guy. You know. Now I'm back home.
Everybody knows me, so I'm way more like you know,
every I go in and wherevery like, oh that's that's fair,
you know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like
(22:55):
it's different here. You know, you're seeing everybody that you
freaking you know, you go to the grocery store, or
you played with Buddy and Mutt in the Pop Warner
and high school. Now you're playing for the ProTeam and
in Cleveland, it's not much to do. So everybody watching
the Browns game, so you know, everybody got the opinion
or what needs to be done and stuff. So you
gotta go through all that. But I mean, it's definitely
(23:18):
it's definitely a great being back. And so tell us
a little bit about your wife's business. Understand that she has, uh,
she has her own company. Yeah, she uh, she had
had her she had started her business and uh when
I was in college, so she was she wasn't living
in Salt Lake City. Starts she was a nail technician
(23:40):
and she kind of uh just found like you know,
she had had she had had a rare eye cancer
that she ended up beating and uh just kind of
got like on the healthy thing and like figure starts
seeing like how all the critic and all that stuff
was basically like bad for bath, for the nail and
(24:00):
all that good stuff. So she cured her own jail
nail line and uh man din't on her own And
when I got drafted, not drafted. When I went undrafted,
you know, I always wanted her to have her own identity.
So in the off seasons, you know, I would go
back to Utah just so it was like in the season,
(24:21):
it was like my time. But then in the off season,
you know, we was going back to you talk of
her time, and I was like, you know, I'll do
I'll be to get to work out end and get
right and get ready for the season. But I mean
it's awesome just seeing their grind and uh seeing her
like you know through COVID and all that stuff, like
you know, all the stuff with China and the ship,
(24:43):
and I mean it was crazy. It was all kind
of like you know, just a little hiccups that people
really don't see when you you know, you just see
the end. You just see the end result. But it's like,
I mean, all the little stuff going on, you know,
you start finding a politics, it started affecting real business,
and you know, realizing she she's been able to, uh
she thrived through all of that, and you know it's
(25:05):
still going to il the point like she's in Houston
right now and the business is still thriving. So uh
shouts out to her for that and you know it's
going good. You know when I got when I just
gotta let go. She was like, you know she was
She made a comment like, well, if you're not happy,
you know you can you can, uh, you can stop
(25:27):
playing and I can pay the bills. And I'd be like,
even if I was not lad, I would be doing something,
you know what I mean. But uh, it's just good
to always just have somebody. You know. When I was young,
I used to I just remember, man, I would see
like guys come in and they watched this at home
(25:47):
and just waiting for them to get there. And it's
like they have nothing else to do with their time
and you gotta get there and deal with that. And
I was like, I do not want that. So uh,
I never wanted that. I never thought I would live
in Utah, but I knew that I did want the
other side of it. So I was like, you know,
I didn't. I wanted her to have her own identity.
(26:08):
So she's been doing great and uh super bad. Before girl,
I see that you have moved around on a few teams,
and I'm wondering, um, have you started to prepare yourself
for after football? I chose to play with the New
York Giants because I knew playing in the mecca of everything,
I could leverage that position. So have you started to
(26:31):
leverage playing in the NFL because you know just as
well as I do, that key can open up doors
that a degree cannot. Definitely, Uh, leveraging and just leveraging
my network. Everywhere I've been, I've always networked, you know,
even when I was Ricky in Oakland, you know, uh
inrees and Horowitz was like a big Raiders guy. So
(26:54):
he had like a big barbecue for private equity and
you know, the I'm undrafted Ricky bro I don't know
if Lamont was there when you was there. Uh, but
Lamont was like, you know, I would never let it
racked Rickie do. But like he let me go to
the He invited me to go to the Doude Baryque,
you know. So I've always just been that way. Uh.
(27:17):
So I really just network. So talking about networking, I
too believe that it is crucial to the success of
anybody to tell us a little bit about the network
that you're part of in your agency, and you know
why you chose them and how much that played a
role in your decision making. Uh, I got with a
(27:37):
clus Sports which is uh was based out of from
le Bron, and uh, when it was coming up, they
was just you know, rich and all them. It was
really just basketball. But you know, like rich Paul had
knew like my mom and you know, from the same
area as my family, so he had knew of me
(28:00):
and growing up. And uh. One of the other agents
that came up with Richards Kelly, who was actually my
agent on the football side. But when I was coming out,
you know, they were just still basketball and I mean
they really wasn't a football So, uh, I just got
to a point to you know, we're just made sense
and going back home and just already having that relationship
(28:23):
and being able to talk. You know, it's just different
when you know what I'm saying a network side, It's
just made sense for me, all right. Man. Look, I'm
not trying to start any beef here at all. But
you stand at six five six six to fifty, you
know Lebron with the sports agency. I gotta ask you
one on one. You're on Lebron, do you think you
(28:45):
at least score a bucket? Will he drop a bucket? Yeah? No,
not you. You you're scoring a bucket. You think you're
gonna score a bucket versus Lebron, but sure dropping the
buck Bron big on the football side, I'll be on
the back people outside. But you know our body, you
know what I mean. I like I like my chances. Yeah,
(29:07):
I hear you, man. I'm sure. I'm sure he appreciates
here in the competitiveness you have him and and I'm
sure he loves representing you. Man. So um, listen, I
appreciate you taking the time to jump on the bag.
I wish you the most success the rest of the season.
Stay healthy, we'll chase the playoffs, go get a super Bowl.
And I know your wife is gonna stay on your
(29:29):
tail and keep you sharp. Man. So all love to
see that. Um, but we'll we'll catch you. We'll catch you,
and we'll catch you next time. Definite appreciate it. Man,
I'm gonna get clutched on his desk with the stars.
Now I need to add, you know the next athlete
to win with you know right? Hey, I got you.
Don't look no further. Man, If you need anybody to
come help and you slide, hit me up, man, don't hesitate.
(29:52):
I got you. Appreciate you girl. Alright, that wraps up
another episode of The Bag. Shout out to sports l
Straight It in our Heart Radio making this possible. Make
sure you tune in subscribe on all channels and all
platforms where you consume the podcast, because we have some
amazing guests coming on Next at you, Next time you
(30:18):
g
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