December 17, 2024 • 38 mins
In today’s episode, our guest, Dr. Jonah Berger, a Wharton School professor, best-selling author, and world-renowned expert on word of mouth, and consumer behavior…discusses with Jason and Peter, how his cutting-edge research, revealed the six types of words that can increase your impact… in every area of your life!
These are the “magic words” that salespeople use to convince clients to buy, customer service reps use to increase satisfaction, lawyers use to persuade juries, and you can use, to motivate people do things they otherwise wouldn’t do!
And by the end of this episode, you’ll understand how, by simply altering your words, you can increase your persuasiveness…by 30%!!! Really, no Really!
IN THIS EPISODE:
- The 6-types of Magic Words.
- Why Dr. Berger decided to study the power of words.
- The astounding difference between “helping” and “being a helper.”
- Why appealing to our identity is more persuasive than asking for an action.
- The power of evoking certainty.
- Revealing the science of contagion.
- Using language to intentionally manipulate – is that a good or bad thing?
- The difference between “should” vs “could” in motivating creative problem solving.
- What really happens when we ask people for advice.
- What’s the difference between saying a movie, “was good” as opposed to “is good”?
- Googleheim: What were the first ever words?
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Website: jonahberger.com
X: @j1berger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
No, really, really no real Hello, and welcome to really
know really with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who are
using the magic word to ask you to please, please,
pretty please subscribe. Speaking of magic words, you'll discover that
there are actual magic words that salespeople use to convince
(00:25):
clients to buy, the customer service reps used to increase satisfaction,
that lawyers used to persuade juries, and that you can
use to motivate people to do things they otherwise wouldn't do.
Really no Really. Our guest doctor Joonah Berger is a
Wharton School professor, best selling author, and world renowned expert
on word of mouth and consumer behavior. He discusses how
(00:48):
his cutting edge research revealed the six types of words
that can increase your impact in every area of your life,
and how by simply altering your words, you can increase
your persuasiveness by thirty Now here are two guys whose
words have persuaded me to look for other employment. Jason
and Peter.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
First, only, if you're watching on video, it's like we've
traded souls. Suddenly. You used to have the long hair
and the beard, and I was clean and bald. I'm
I'm still managing bald. But what's there is long and
I have this Tavia beard going. You're clean shaven. You
(01:30):
took a flow be to yourself. You look you almost
look dare I say young?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Oh no, oh no, that means you have cataract and
you should check with your doctor. You look very thank you,
thank you, you're very smart. Look very you look Smi'm
very tedd You're very tell how's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who's the show going? We just opened. The reviews are spectacular.
Show seems very good. You sold out. Very proud of you. Man,
it's a magnificent show. It's a great company. You know,
if you're an actor, you got DNA for this stuff.
So it it. It does make you rise to the
occasion as.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You as you get all speaking of it older and
we looking younger?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Or is it hard? Do you find all the It's hard,
you know, I'm sixty five years of stuff hurts. This
is a role that you know, if you crunch the
numbers internally, the guy should be forty really yeah, And
it's been played by actors in their late forties and
then their fifties, but the ages rapidly. Yeah, but no,
(02:35):
it's all good. It's all good. It's all good, and
today we're talking about you weird magic words. I got
excited because I thought it was going to be, oh,
the derivation of alec exam and abra cadabra, and that's
a college street credit course. No, this is magic words.
I read it wrong. You know me.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I'm looking at stuff all the time, and I see
the magic words that you can use to get people
to do what you want. So I check this professor out.
He's been called a persuasion expert. What to say to
get people to give you your way? What are those words?
And I started watching some of his stutis can I
guess sat unseen?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Can I guess? No? Please, You'll never know wrong? May
not wrong? Should I wrong? With a cherry wrong?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
What you find out is you change one word in
a sentence when you're writing or asking.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Some of my agency has magic words. You didn't get it.
Those are the four magic words.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So there are ways to change one word or part
of a phrase to get a thirty percent increase in
people responding.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And really you want, let's open with that every episode.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So this is used in sales, it's used in politics.
It's also used for scammers. They know how to manipulate
words to motivate people to do things.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So where we could we could be unintentionally yes, enhancing the.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Life of a He's also written books by the Way
Magic Words. What to Say to Get Your Way is
his newest book. He also wrote Why Things Catch On.
He's an expert on why things get sticky and why
why contagious stuff spreads like on the internet, Why things
take on?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I don't know why. This reminds me of the books
we came up with for our motivational character. I know
more than you, well you know more than you, so
we don't always know more.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
We didn't prep. We didn't prep. We didn't get the
prep like we always do. The bit I wanted to
do with you with him is the five I think
one of these sort of like the five magic words
to get you anything you want. I was we were
going to write the new book titles with five more
magic words, three magic words. I forgot three secret magic words.
Oh look, there are more words like the series of
(04:45):
books that we can do that with him anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But that's we would have prepared. Sure, yes, that would
have been that would have been comedy, would have but
we we didn't do it because you had the rest
of your voice to play this thing. It now all right? So.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Professor Jonah Berger is a Wharton School professor, internationally best
selling author of Magic Words, Contagious, Invisible Influence, The Catalyst,
world renowned expert on word of mouth, social influence, consumer behavior.
He's published over eighty articles in top tier academic journals.
Teaches one of the world's most popular online courses. One
of the world's most popular online courses, obviously bigger than
(05:25):
the Taylor Swift Course. I think it's pretty It's right
up there with Doublin. The most created people in business
by Fast Company. He works with Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, the
Gates Foundation, and now really.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, really, First of all, do you prefer doctor Burger
or Jonah? How should we? This will tell me a
lot about the words how he answers this question. Look,
do you preferred doctor Burger A Jonah?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Absolutely, no preference. Whatever, whatever you want to do is fine.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I like I like he's playing you see what he did.
He lured me write in Jonah, what led you to
the revelation of these sort of magical words that you
talk about?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
You know, it's so interesting, almost everything we do, it
involves language. Right, You and I are talking right now
using language. At the end of this, if you press
a magic button, it might stript out transcript and written language.
Language is how salespeople sell, or how leaders lead, the
how teachers teach. We'd read newspapers using language, we watch
movies using language. All these things involve language. And I
(06:26):
slowly started realizing, Wow, you know, while we think a
lot about the ideas we want to communicate, right, what
are the big picture things I want to get across,
we think a lot less about the specific words we
use when we communicate those ideas. And I started realizing, well,
that's unfortunately mistake, right, because subtle shifts in the language
we use can have a big impact. We had a
(06:47):
young son and he would often use the word pease
peas meant please. He didn't have his l's yet, trying
to figure it out, and so he'd say, for example,
he'd want a certain food, so we'd say, you know,
peace whatever food or peace browbear, which was his brown bear.
And what I started realizing is, wow, this is the
first time he rised that. He realized, you know, if
I asked for something and you don't give it to me,
(07:08):
and then I say please, I'm more likely to get
it right, I'm more likely to get what I want.
And so we realized language has power. And I think
we all at some point in our lives have realized
language has power. And I became interested in, well, what
are those powers, what are those magic words? And how
can we take advantage of that power?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And one of the areas which is really really interesting
is words that attach you to an identity and how
they work better. One of the examples was you get
a thirty percent better response rate when you present something
a certain way as opposed to another.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So why do you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So let me tell you got a great old research
study that was done and this is out in California
a number of decades ago, and they went into a
local preschool and they were trying to get kids to
do something kids don't want to do is clean up.
And so for some of the kids, they said, hey,
can you help clean up? It's a mess, Crayon's on
the floor of their blocks everywhere, can you help me up?
But for a different group of kids, they try to
subtle but importantly different strategy, said hey can you be
(08:06):
a helper, not can you help clean up? But can
you be a helper? Now, the difference between help and
helper is really small. It's only a couple of letters
adding er to the end of help. Yet that led
to about a thirty percent increase in kids cleaning up
the classroom. And you could say, well, that's cute, but
those are just kids, like why don't we care about
cleaning up? What about bigger, important things with adults? And
so more recently someone did a study applying these ideas
(08:29):
to voting. So for some people they sent them a
note saying, hey, please go vote, and for other people
they said, hey, please be a voter. And again the
difference between vote and voter is even smaller. It's only
one letter there, right, adding an R to the end
of vote. Yet that led to about a fifteen percent
increase in people's likelihood of turning out polls. And so
you might ask, well, why, right, why is helper more
(08:50):
impactful help? Why is voter more impactful with vote? And
it turns out it comes down to the difference between
actions and identities. Right, we all know that we should
do certain things. We should exercise, and we should read
the news, and we should eat healthy, and we should vote,
and we should help, but we're busy, we don't have
the time, right, But we care more about than certain
actions are holding desired identities. We all want to see
(09:13):
ourselves as smart, knowledgeable, and at least maybe a little
bit athletic, and all those different things, and so we
engage in actions to support those identities. I want to
see myself as athletic, I better go for a run.
If I want to see myself as healthy, I better
eat salad once in a while. And so if we
turn actions like voting into identities like being a voter,
(09:33):
it makes people much more likely to take those actions. Right, voting, Oh,
I know I should do it, but I'm busy. But
hold on. If voting is an opportunity to be a voter, now,
I'm much more likely to do it. And so by
turning those actions into identities, we can make people more
likely to take the desired actions now.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And John, we really we avoid politics on the show
pretty stringently, so I'm not trying to get us into
a political conversation. I'm just fascinated based on what you said.
By changing your language of invitation to identify with a
group or to self identify you're able to create an action.
(10:10):
Do you feel that it is then possible. I'm going
to keep it in the voting world, that language alone
could have made a voter identify with a particular party,
or a particular cause, or a particular candidate. Are we
that malleable and susceptible to language that you could take
it a step further?
Speaker 4 (10:29):
You know, I want to be careful here. I'm not
saying that, you know, one word makes everybody do everything
in any way, shape or form. But on the margins,
these things matter. Right. Let's say, you know, I asked
you which is worse, losing or being a loser. That's
an easy thing to answer, right, you say, well, being
a loser is much worse. A terrible version of this.
There's recently something that press where somebody said, you know,
(10:51):
a certain actor didn't just had not just farted on set,
but they were a farther right. They called them a farter.
Oh I know, And now farther's like right, It's like, oh,
I am a farther. That's a stable part of that
would be the worst thing ever, And so you're much
more likely to avoid negative things if they would lead
you to hold that identity. And so it's a subtle difference,
(11:12):
but the difference between actions and identities is an important.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
So what pops out to me too is we have
a whole generation now people who don't just influence their
influencer exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know, I think that was a really smart branding
move from whether you think about it, is these platforms
that have created these things, or the individuals themselves. Right,
people don't just create, they are creators. They don't just
influence their influencers suddenly. Now it doesn't sound just like
a side hustle, sounds like a full time job, right,
It sounds like an ingrained part of who people are.
(11:46):
And so I think these subtle shifts can have a
big impact. Right, if you want to help someone get
a job, right, rather than saying, oh they lead or
they're innovative, saying they are an innovator or they are
a leader's going to make it seem like it's a
more stable part of who they are. And so these
small shifts can actually make a big difference.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, you know, also for me, as I as I
listened to that explanation, I could feel this thing come
up in me which was pushback against that because if
someone says to me, listen, I'm representing this thing and
I'd like to try and influence you to see if
you if it works for you, I'd like to try
and do that. I'm I feel like I'm immediately more
open to it. If they say, well, this person's an influencer.
(12:26):
This is what they do is they bring people over
to their influence. I go now, I'm immediately resisting. You
can I jump? Can I jump to something else? From that?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And again, influencer, you're pushing back because there's there's there's
a certainty implied there that they know what's okay.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, Well, my brother once said to me, the best leaders,
the biggest guys in the world, is one thing they
all have in common. They speak with certainty and certainty works.
And I know you use Trump and you you predicated
by doesn't matter if you hate them or love them.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Explain the certainty there and why certainty works. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So again, I don't I don't want to get into
politics either, but whether you like Trump or not, you
can't disagree that he's done a pretty amazing job of
getting people to adopt his ideas. If you like those ideas,
you're probably pretty happy about it. You hate those ideas,
you're probably pretty unhappy about it. But one question, an
interesting question, is why has it worked? Right, even if
you don't like it, you can't deny that it's working
(13:24):
for at least some set of people. And so why
And so if you look at the way he speaks,
it's not actually unique to him.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
He speaks the same way that's so called guru speak
that startup founders often speak. He speaks with a great
deal of certainty.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
He doesn't say, oh, you know, this might happen, this
may be a good idea. I think this. He speaks
in absolutes.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
He doesn't speak in grays shades of gray, speaks in
black and white. Right, I'm going to build a great wall,
the best wall that's ever been built. America doesn't have
victories anymore. We used to, but we don't have them.
He speaks that sort of this is exactly how it is.
And contrast that with a how a lot of us speak. Right,
I'll pick on myself for an example. I'm an academic,
and so we tend to use a lot of hedges.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Oh, well, maybe in some situations this might be and
I think this, and this is possible, and it's not
surprising then that other people sit there going wow, if
you're not even sure yourself, why should I listen to you?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
There's a lot of research, for example, in the context
of financial advisors, that shows that the more certainty someone
speaks with, even by the way, if they're wrong, the
more certainty they speak with, the more likely people are
to pick them as a financial adviser. Because people are
sitting there going, wow, you seem so confident you must
be right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
I want to be careful here. I don't mean to
suggest that we should never hedge.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
There are certainly cases where we may want a hedge.
We may want to step back, We may want to
say this might be true, or I think or things
along those lines. But we certainly shouldn't just say those
things because it's easy.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Some of us do that because it's a simple verbal tick. Right.
We're sitting there, Oh, I'm not sure. I want to
buy myself time, and so I'm going to hedge to
give myself a chance to think about what I want
to say. But when we're doing that, we're subtly undermining
our own impact, right, and they're better and worse ways
to hedge. So there's a difference between saying if someone
asks you for your opinion, saying, oh, you know, I
(15:18):
don't know, versus I think, hey, this is a great idea,
but there are three things that need to happen for
this to work.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
That's a situation where yes, I'm not saying it's for
sure it's going to happen. I'm calling out the uncertain right.
I'm saying I think it's a good idea, but for
it to work, these things need to happen. And so
what I'm suggesting is not that we should or never
use certainty, but we should strategically speak with when you.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A consult, because you consult some of the biggest companies
in the world, the more certainty you can put in
your cell that you're legally allowed to say. A lot
of them have asterisks because you can't say guaranteed to
make your dog live longer. Is that come up about
pushing the envelope as close to certainty in messaging as
you pos possibly can.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, So I want to be careful here. I'm not
advocating that people lie, and I'm not advocating that people
be over confident, right, because there's certainly situations where when
we say something with certainty and then later on someone
realizes that what we said isn't true, it hurts us right.
And by the way, there are even times you want
to express out right. So if I'm on a team
(16:22):
or I'm a leader walking into a meeting and I
say this is how it is, it's going to make
everyone else feel like they shouldn't share their opinions because
I'm already so certain. But if I walk in right
and I so I'm not sure, and I use language
that indicates I'm not sure, now, it's going to make
other people feel more comfortable sharing their own opinion. Again,
it's a strategic tool, right, just like any other tool.
(16:44):
There are times for a hammer, there are times for
a saw. Same thing here, there are times to be certain,
and there are times to express out.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Can I jump around a little ajournal and give you
because this is what blew me away that you asked
the question did the dog go out? Or did you
take the dog out? And you point out, oh, all
of a sudden, this is my job to take the
dog out.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
So you add you in.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
There and it completely becomes a whole different attitude.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
So this is something I found interesting. So, you know,
I work with different companies organizations. Someone asked me, hey,
can you figure out what's working on our social media?
So I went out there, analyzed all their social media posts,
looks at what's in getting engagement, what's not found? One word,
the word you, had a big impact on engage right
on social media. When you say you know, rather than
here are five tips to save money, you say, here
(17:33):
are five tips to save you money, or if I
said you know ways to be healthier, these are ways
for you to be healthier. Adding you increases engagement. It's
almost like a stop sign. Right When people see that word,
their attention draws and they go, oh, this is speaking
more to me than it might have been otherwise. And
so then the company said, fantastic, that's really wonderful. Can
(17:53):
you do the same thing for our help pages. So
imagine you have an issue with your iPhone, your watch
isn't working, your printer's not doing whatever. You go to
their site to figure out why, and so there we
actually found that you had the opposite effect. You wasn't helpful.
You didn't make those pages better. It made people feel
like they were less helpful. And so I was sitting
there going, well, why right, why is you good on
(18:14):
social media? But you is not so good on help pages?
And I realized two things. First, you was good for
grabbing attention, but on help pages things like help but
you don't need to grab people's attention people already there.
But second, you can make people feel like, well, you're
blaming your phone. I'm responsible for this. If I say, hey,
if your phone is broken, you need to do X,
(18:35):
Y and z, you're sitting there ground, why is it
my phone? Right, it's your phone. Your phone is broken?
Why do I have to do something about it? And
so these are what can be called accusatory use, right,
and these often happen in our personal lives. Right, you
get home and someone says, hey, did you walk the dog?
Did you make dinner? At the office, someone said did
you finish that report? And what that person really means is, hey,
did the report get done? Did the dog get walked?
(18:56):
Is their dinner available? But they feel right, you feel
like you're being a taught.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know this is an on track, but off track.
I get fascinated by this stuff. So I assume in
your personal relationships with your significant other, spouse, whatever it
may be, that you know, we drag therapy speak into
our relationships. You have a professional understanding of this. I'm
sure you are able to employ some of these techniques
(19:21):
in your interpersonal relationships. Does your significant significant other ever
go stop doing that to me? I know what you're doing?
Does it ever come up?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You know?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It turns out.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
We drag therapy speak into our relationships. You have a
professional understanding of this. I'm sure you are able to
employ some of these techniques and your into personal relationships.
Does your significant significant other ever go stop doing that
to I know what you're doing that? Does it ever
come up?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You know? It turns out my spouse is also behavioral scientists,
and so she's even more aware of this. Well then
one might be in a usual situation. But the nice
thing is we can both sort of sit there and
analyze it, right. We can be well, oh why did
I why did I feel that way? Or oh did
you did you mean.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
It that way?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Or maybe that's this, and so it's almost like a
little mini experiment going on every day in our own lives.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, to that end, if everybody because what you're doing
is you're you know, you're educating people as to how
language can have this effect. Do you feel like if
everybody understood and was able to some degree adopt some
of the techniques you're talking about, would it make communication
work better or would we all go Now that we
(20:47):
all know it, none of us are being influenced by it.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, you know, it's tough. And sometimes people also say
things like, oh, is this manipulation, right? Are you just
you know, you're just getting people to do something they
wouldn't do otherwise. And I think what's tough, right is
manipulation depends a little bit on the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
So, if you're using certain words to get people to
eat more fruits and vegetables and exercise more and support
good causes and take better care of the planet, people say, great,
you know, keep doing it right. And if instead you're
using language to get people to buy junk and destroy
the planet and treat their bodies badly, then you'd say
it's not so good. And so I think with many
of these tools, you know, it often happens without our awareness,
(21:26):
particularly in spoken communication.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Jona, we're in writers' rooms, we create shows, and you
want people to be creative. How to engage somebody with
solutions to problems? Different ways to say it, which could
yield a more creative result.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah. So there's a great old study again that looked
at this experiment where they ask people to solve a
variety of tough problems, difficult things, making choices, coming up
with creative solutions, all the things you might do in
a writer's room. And for some people, they ask them
to use the traditional approach to solving a problem, to
being think about what you should do right, think about
(22:02):
what you should do in this situation. For another set
of people, they ask them to do something very slightly different.
Rather than ask them to think about what they should do,
they ask them to think about what they could do.
And again, the difference between should and could is very small,
it's only a few letters different. Yet that had a
big impact on how good a problem solver they were
and how creative they became. Talking thinking in terms of
(22:25):
colds made people come up with a lot better and
more creative. So reason why though it makes a lot
of sense right when we think about shoulds, it makes
us think there's one right answer, what should I do?
There's one right thing, and I just have to discover it.
I'm gonna think and think and think till I get there.
Whereas what I'm thinking colds, I open my blinders a
little bit. Right now, I'm looking around to think about
(22:46):
what's possible. Right, we've all done brainstorming where not everything
is possible is a good idea. So I'm not saying
all of those things you come up with, but by
thinking about what you could do, you think about a
broader set of things which helps you come up with
the better solution.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
It took me right out, as a guy who's always
tasked with that writing and thinking of solutions, all of
a sudden it opened up. Yeah, free, just that one word.
If I say, what could we do? What could the
character du He could mountain? We can go as big
as we want to pull it back. So it just
it hit me.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And my question is, now that you've had this revelation,
how could it serve me? And should it serve you?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And should should it come back? Should could can't? Whatever
you don't of the books are fascinating. I would love
to have you back on you know what I.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Want to ask before we say goodbye to you? I
know initially when when Peter first told me about you
and your work, he said, four magic words for magic words,
I don't know that we've laid them out. There are
there really four magic words that that would change communication instantly.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
So I would say there there are a number of
buckets of magic words, these types of magic words. Okay,
I put them in a framework I like to call
the speak framework. Yes, For the ASS is the language
of similarity and difference. The HE is the language of
posing questions. We didn't get a chance to talk about it,
but questions are so so powerful they do a lot
of interesting work in communication. The E is for the
language of emotion. The A is for the language of
(24:10):
agency and identity. We talked about some of those, right,
being a voter rather than voting, helper rather than help.
And then the last two letters of the language of
confidence and the language of concreteness, And we talked a
little about that language of concreteness, so the language of certainty, sorry,
talking about fillers and talking about hedges and those sorts
(24:32):
of things. And so each of those six buckets are
a type of language that aren't just for magic words.
I wish, I wish there were but there's types of
language that we can use in a variety of situations.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
While we're on that, because you brought up questions, and
I love questions, because they.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Asked some questions I was going to say, I just
had an example of one at a talk back that
I did where I do an entertainment Q and a show,
but it was before the election. Then somebody asked me
if they're allowed to ask me anything, but we usually
keep it to show business stuff, but they said, who
are you voting for? And what I did is I said,
you know what, let me answer that question with a question,
(25:09):
what do you care about? What are the things you
care about most. I'll tell you what I care about,
and you tell me what you care about, and then
you know, here we go, but we'll see what we are.
But it was a much more interesting way because I
think that what I found in my conversation with people,
particularly on politics and identification, is the minute you say
(25:31):
i'm I'm of this party or I'm of this candidate
or I'm of the communication stops. But if I say, well,
you know, here's what I care about. I care that
you know, people get seen and heard and treated fairly.
I care about people feeling safe in their homes and
their communities. Oh I do too, Okay, Well, so we
all care about the same thing. So now it's just
(25:52):
a question of how do we make as many people
as possible. I have that right, and it becomes a
very different compet.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I mean, I think Jason's example shows a number of
things that I like a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
One is, you can use questions almost to deflect things. Right,
someone asks you a question you either don't want to
answer you don't think is appropriate, you can ask them
a question back. Questions almost like spotlights, Right. They shine
attention on something in a conversation in one's mind, and
you can use them to direct the focus of conversations.
But they can also be really nicely switched the field
(26:21):
of something.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Politics is, as you said, often feels like this field
where Democrats are on run end and Republicans are on
the other, and there's sort of no middle ground. But
there's a different field on which we're all on the
same spot, right, a different dimension. We all care about
our families, we all want the country to better off,
we all want the best for our children. All these
things that we have in common, and sometimes starting with
what we have in common. And this is actually a
(26:43):
lot of what I talk about in a different book
called The Catalyst, which is all about changing people's minds,
but really starting with that understanding, starting with understanding who
you're talking to and what they care about, and starting
on the same page rather than starting at a place
of difference, can make you more likely to listen to
one another's There's this great old Heineken sort of campaign
or skit that's online you can watch where they take
(27:05):
people that you think would hate each other, so like
misogynists and women, or people that hate transgender people and
someone who's transgendered, and they have them have a conversation.
Except rather than starting by realizing they hate each other,
they start by doing something in common.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
They start by having a conversation about something else. They
start by building a bar together. They start by doing
something that connects them, and then along the way they realize, well, wait,
this is a person who in theory I wouldn't like,
But now once I've gotten to know them, they're not
so one dimensional, right, They're not just this category. They're
a person, and once they're a person, that category is
part of who they are. But it's not the only
(27:39):
part of that. They are now much more interested in
keeping that conversation.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Also, you point out that asking a question in the
workplace reflects well on you because we are a narcissist.
So the fact that you were smart enough to come
to me to ask me the question makes you, right,
isn't that kind.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Of This is a really a simple, a simple point,
but a good We all think about asking for advice.
We all know someone who knows more about something than
we do, right, maybe it's a colleague, a peer, a boss, somebody.
But often we're afraid to ask for advice. Maybe that
person won't know the answer, or they'll be busy. We
don't want to bother them. But even worse, they'll think
less of us right by asking them for advice. They'll
(28:17):
think we don't know what we're doing, and so we
don't want to ask. Turns out that intuition is completely wrong.
It's not that asking for advice makes you seem worse.
It's not that it has no effect. In fact, just
the opposite. It makes you seem more competent and more knowledgeable.
And if if you wonder why, it's not just because
asking for advice makes you seem curious, which is a
good thing, but it also takes advantage of other people's egocentrics. Right.
(28:41):
We all love to think that we give it good advice.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
If I ask you, guys, do you give good advice?
You wouldn't sit. They're going no, I don't give good advice, right,
and say, oh me, of course I give good advice, right,
I give great advice. And so when someone comes us
to us and ask us for our advice, we sit.
They're going, Wow, that person's so smart. Out of all
the people they could have they asked me, they must
have a really good taste, right, and so we think
positively about them as a results. So the clear take
(29:06):
home is just ask for advice. Not only do we
get that useful information, but it'll make you seem smart.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
But you're sucking up. You're sucking up. No, I get it.
It's a dope.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I've had I'm doing a show out with a bunch
of younger actors and several of them have come up
and said, hey, you know, how do you find yourself
doing this or that or the other thing? And you
know it is one of those things where you go, well,
it feel really good if I'm able to pass into
my experience on It's very sweeter than to ask me.
You know, I totally get what he said.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Oh yeah, but you never think about it until also
you point, and I know I could keep you on
all day long. Tense movie was good, movie is good, huge, huge, different.
I mean these are like catasclismic. You don't even realize
what that says when you ask that question and you
just change that thing, right, just tense, tense can be huge.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yeah, Well, think about it. When you say the movie
was good, it suggests that when I saw it that time,
it was good. When you say the movie is good,
it suggests that for everyone, for all time, it will
be fantastic. Right, when you say the food was good,
it sounds like on the Tuesday you went to the
restaurant it was decent. But if you say the food
is good, it suggests that everyone will love it whenever
they go.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Fascinating, And again we just scratched the surface. Jona's book, Jela,
I am, I'm serious. I'm a terrible reader, but I'm
so fascinated by this conversation.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I'm running out. I'm gonna whis the first book I
should get? If you, guys, what's the one I would
enjoy the most?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Oh goodness, what it sounds? What what kind of problem do
you want to solve? Right? So, if you're interested in language, yeah,
magic words is good.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
If you're interested in why things catch on, word of mouth,
why things go viral, contagious is the best one. You're
interested in changing someone's mind, how to do that? Removing
barriers to change the catalyst is best. And they're sort
of the The Ugly step Child or the Four Books,
which is called Invisible Influence, which guess let's do but
is all about influence and how it often happens without
our work.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And again we've just scratched the surface. It just goes
on and on and on, and white bulbs keep going off.
Thank you, thanks for coming on, Thanks for the work.
What you do is gives is fascinating? Is that the
right word that we want? He was fascinating the right word.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But it's an appropriate word, all right. It is fascinating
that it was fascinating.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
He is fast, he is fat, and by the way,
he also was fascinating.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, and where he's going here Now I'm going to
do an accusatory you you may have messed that up,
all right, So I'm not sure I got the buckets.
I didn't get the word, so I got I guess
(31:39):
I gotta pay for the word. You gotta pay for
the word. I gotta pay.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But I'm thinking back. The guy who influenced you the
most in college to acting was William Shatner. Yeah, was
Captain Kirk. Did he speak with certainty all the time?
He got, yes, That's what It's really interesting. He gave
him lines that were certainty.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yes, even even when what he was speaking of expressed
uncertainty when he said doctor McCoy is right and pointing
out the huge risk involved engaging creatures of another world.
But risk is our business.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Right, I mean, but I'm thinking they gave that's a
character spoke with certainty all the time, and Spot spoke
with certainty. And yes, it's a different kind because it
was emotionless. Which is funny because then you went on
to one of the most successful sitcoms where everybody showed uncertainty,
although you.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Were I think everybody. I think the thing in Seinfeld
is you got four people absolutely what you're doing. None
of it is right. So that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
So George was certain about stuff but completely wrong, right, Absolutely,
jerkstore is the line jerkstore. I'm going with jerkstore.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I mean, you know, it's a certainty. It's really fascinating
once you start taking apart. But certainty is that is
the absolute of comedy. Look at Jackie Gleeson, look at
all the great comedians, especially in television. They develop an
answer to a situation that the rest of us know
is absolutely wrong, but they're certain it's right and they
(33:04):
won't let go. That's amazing, well, powerful, fascinating, fascinating. You
know you did you have anything on that one? David?
You know I always have something on everything. I'm fascinated.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
That's that's why I make the big bucks.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I understand. Today.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
Of course, we've been talking about the power of words,
especially how we string them together.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
But do you know what the first words were? First
words ever created by humans? That is exactly right.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
We're talking fifteen thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I'm imagining. How hot I know that's what big one?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Fire fire fire fire fire fire Wait wait wait, wait,
how do we know that?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Who documented that? It was written on a wall? And
so much?
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Mark Mark Pagal of the University of Reading School of
biological sciences. They did research in twenty thirteen that obviously
nothing was written down, but using human syntax and what
would have been important at that time, they have put
together what some of the first words would be, like
(34:09):
I we fire mother, and of course because of the
chosen people.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
No, you know what's funny?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
You know what's funny? What I think about here? Thank you?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What I think about here? Thank you for the negative.
What I think about here is just like the dinosaurs.
We thought there were certain color and then all of
a sudden they earth stared, they are wrong, and other stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
They're all wrong. I'd love to find a cave from
you know, fifty thousand years ago that has an arrow
and the word exit. I'd love to just see that
up on the wall, you know, just the same.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I'm going to sue your ass is up on the
wall of summer. Yeah, because they.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Would, you know, seriously, so if you didn't have language,
and we absolutely had to name some things in order
to get along, I you that would be that would
make sense? Good? Bad? That would make sense? What want
need mine? Or right? Sex? Well sex, there has to
be something for we're getting together. That's why they meant
(35:12):
why that's why the word no was.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And then headache would be in there, right in there,
and and depressed depressed.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, but if you think about it, what what would
you need?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Foods, some kind of food thing, hunting things, things, the
things that would keep you by the way things would
keep you alive, like run run, yeah, bear, or name
a thing why bear? And then you got the context
of say quicker together like run bear, not run why
and he's gone?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know, but it is you know, it's interesting. We
should have somebody to do this. There are universal sounds
that we make under certain situations, like ow I was
you know, I said, what would be the first one out?
Almost universally some form of our ouch is the sound
we make when we're in pain.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
But like thousands of years ago, did they make that
sound or did they go globe them?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I don't know whether it's the first time. That would
be very interesting to find out. Has it always been?
Is it? Is it a breathing sound that became you know,
vocalized on that? Good on that? Let me do you
want me to look into it? Yeah, okay, let me
make up a word for English. I'm going to get
to it. It is interesting how language and how long
(36:20):
it took to develop? Ye yeah, fascinating. Right, all right,
all right, this could be the end. This should be
the end. This is the end. This was the end,
and cannight no really.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
As another episode if really no really he comes to
a close. I know you're wondering, what are some common
English words that mean something very offensive in other languages? Well,
all big guile you in a moment. But first let's
thank our guest to doctor Joonah Berger. You can follow
doctor Berger on x where he is at j one Burger,
or you can go to his website jonah Berger dot com.
(36:55):
Find all pertinent links in our show notes, our little
shell hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and threads at
really no Really podcasts, And of course you can share
your thoughts and feedback with us online at reallynoreally dot com.
If you have a really some amazing factor story that
boggles your mind, share it with us, and if we
(37:15):
use it, we will send you a little gift. Nothing
life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts. Check
out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe button
and take that bell so you're updated when we release
new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So
listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts. And now, what common
(37:37):
English words are actually a bit offensive in other languages? Well,
I said, I would beguile you, but maybe not if
you speak German or the word guile means horny. You
might little a baby to sleep in English, but lull
in Dutch means penis, which as far as I know,
is not an effective sleep aid. Puff might be a
magic dragon and the English speaking song, but in Germany
(37:58):
puff would be a magic brothel. Salsa is a Spanish
word that we English speakers now commonly use for a
spicy condiment. However, in Korean that same word means diarrhea,
a decidedly less popular condiment, and truer words have.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Never been spoken.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Really No, Really is production of iHeartRadio and Blase Entertainment
No, really, really no real Hello, and welcome to really
know really with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who are
using the magic word to ask you to please, please,
pretty please subscribe. Speaking of magic words, you'll discover that
there are actual magic words that salespeople use to convince
(00:25):
clients to buy, the customer service reps used to increase satisfaction,
that lawyers used to persuade juries, and that you can
use to motivate people to do things they otherwise wouldn't do.
Really no Really. Our guest doctor Joonah Berger is a
Wharton School professor, best selling author, and world renowned expert
on word of mouth and consumer behavior. He discusses how
(00:48):
his cutting edge research revealed the six types of words
that can increase your impact in every area of your life,
and how by simply altering your words, you can increase
your persuasiveness by thirty Now here are two guys whose
words have persuaded me to look for other employment. Jason
and Peter.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
First, only, if you're watching on video, it's like we've
traded souls. Suddenly. You used to have the long hair
and the beard, and I was clean and bald. I'm
I'm still managing bald. But what's there is long and
I have this Tavia beard going. You're clean shaven. You
(01:30):
took a flow be to yourself. You look you almost
look dare I say young?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Oh no, oh no, that means you have cataract and
you should check with your doctor. You look very thank you,
thank you, you're very smart. Look very you look Smi'm
very tedd You're very tell how's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who's the show going? We just opened. The reviews are spectacular.
Show seems very good. You sold out. Very proud of you. Man,
it's a magnificent show. It's a great company. You know,
if you're an actor, you got DNA for this stuff.
So it it. It does make you rise to the
occasion as.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You as you get all speaking of it older and
we looking younger?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Or is it hard? Do you find all the It's hard,
you know, I'm sixty five years of stuff hurts. This
is a role that you know, if you crunch the
numbers internally, the guy should be forty really yeah, And
it's been played by actors in their late forties and
then their fifties, but the ages rapidly. Yeah, but no,
(02:35):
it's all good. It's all good. It's all good, and
today we're talking about you weird magic words. I got
excited because I thought it was going to be, oh,
the derivation of alec exam and abra cadabra, and that's
a college street credit course. No, this is magic words.
I read it wrong. You know me.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I'm looking at stuff all the time, and I see
the magic words that you can use to get people
to do what you want. So I check this professor out.
He's been called a persuasion expert. What to say to
get people to give you your way? What are those words?
And I started watching some of his stutis can I
guess sat unseen?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Can I guess? No? Please, You'll never know wrong? May
not wrong? Should I wrong? With a cherry wrong?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
What you find out is you change one word in
a sentence when you're writing or asking.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Some of my agency has magic words. You didn't get it.
Those are the four magic words.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So there are ways to change one word or part
of a phrase to get a thirty percent increase in
people responding.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And really you want, let's open with that every episode.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So this is used in sales, it's used in politics.
It's also used for scammers. They know how to manipulate
words to motivate people to do things.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So where we could we could be unintentionally yes, enhancing the.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Life of a He's also written books by the Way
Magic Words. What to Say to Get Your Way is
his newest book. He also wrote Why Things Catch On.
He's an expert on why things get sticky and why
why contagious stuff spreads like on the internet, Why things
take on?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I don't know why. This reminds me of the books
we came up with for our motivational character. I know
more than you, well you know more than you, so
we don't always know more.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
We didn't prep. We didn't prep. We didn't get the
prep like we always do. The bit I wanted to
do with you with him is the five I think
one of these sort of like the five magic words
to get you anything you want. I was we were
going to write the new book titles with five more
magic words, three magic words. I forgot three secret magic words.
Oh look, there are more words like the series of
(04:45):
books that we can do that with him anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But that's we would have prepared. Sure, yes, that would
have been that would have been comedy, would have but
we we didn't do it because you had the rest
of your voice to play this thing. It now all right? So.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Professor Jonah Berger is a Wharton School professor, internationally best
selling author of Magic Words, Contagious, Invisible Influence, The Catalyst,
world renowned expert on word of mouth, social influence, consumer behavior.
He's published over eighty articles in top tier academic journals.
Teaches one of the world's most popular online courses. One
of the world's most popular online courses, obviously bigger than
(05:25):
the Taylor Swift Course. I think it's pretty It's right
up there with Doublin. The most created people in business
by Fast Company. He works with Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, the
Gates Foundation, and now really.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, really, First of all, do you prefer doctor Burger
or Jonah? How should we? This will tell me a
lot about the words how he answers this question. Look,
do you preferred doctor Burger A Jonah?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Absolutely, no preference. Whatever, whatever you want to do is fine.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I like I like he's playing you see what he did.
He lured me write in Jonah, what led you to
the revelation of these sort of magical words that you
talk about?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
You know, it's so interesting, almost everything we do, it
involves language. Right, You and I are talking right now
using language. At the end of this, if you press
a magic button, it might stript out transcript and written language.
Language is how salespeople sell, or how leaders lead, the
how teachers teach. We'd read newspapers using language, we watch
movies using language. All these things involve language. And I
(06:26):
slowly started realizing, Wow, you know, while we think a
lot about the ideas we want to communicate, right, what
are the big picture things I want to get across,
we think a lot less about the specific words we
use when we communicate those ideas. And I started realizing, well,
that's unfortunately mistake, right, because subtle shifts in the language
we use can have a big impact. We had a
(06:47):
young son and he would often use the word pease
peas meant please. He didn't have his l's yet, trying
to figure it out, and so he'd say, for example,
he'd want a certain food, so we'd say, you know,
peace whatever food or peace browbear, which was his brown bear.
And what I started realizing is, wow, this is the
first time he rised that. He realized, you know, if
I asked for something and you don't give it to me,
(07:08):
and then I say please, I'm more likely to get
it right, I'm more likely to get what I want.
And so we realized language has power. And I think
we all at some point in our lives have realized
language has power. And I became interested in, well, what
are those powers, what are those magic words? And how
can we take advantage of that power?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And one of the areas which is really really interesting
is words that attach you to an identity and how
they work better. One of the examples was you get
a thirty percent better response rate when you present something
a certain way as opposed to another.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So why do you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So let me tell you got a great old research
study that was done and this is out in California
a number of decades ago, and they went into a
local preschool and they were trying to get kids to
do something kids don't want to do is clean up.
And so for some of the kids, they said, hey,
can you help clean up? It's a mess, Crayon's on
the floor of their blocks everywhere, can you help me up?
But for a different group of kids, they try to
subtle but importantly different strategy, said hey can you be
(08:06):
a helper, not can you help clean up? But can
you be a helper? Now, the difference between help and
helper is really small. It's only a couple of letters
adding er to the end of help. Yet that led
to about a thirty percent increase in kids cleaning up
the classroom. And you could say, well, that's cute, but
those are just kids, like why don't we care about
cleaning up? What about bigger, important things with adults? And
so more recently someone did a study applying these ideas
(08:29):
to voting. So for some people they sent them a
note saying, hey, please go vote, and for other people
they said, hey, please be a voter. And again the
difference between vote and voter is even smaller. It's only
one letter there, right, adding an R to the end
of vote. Yet that led to about a fifteen percent
increase in people's likelihood of turning out polls. And so
you might ask, well, why, right, why is helper more
(08:50):
impactful help? Why is voter more impactful with vote? And
it turns out it comes down to the difference between
actions and identities. Right, we all know that we should
do certain things. We should exercise, and we should read
the news, and we should eat healthy, and we should vote,
and we should help, but we're busy, we don't have
the time, right, But we care more about than certain
actions are holding desired identities. We all want to see
(09:13):
ourselves as smart, knowledgeable, and at least maybe a little
bit athletic, and all those different things, and so we
engage in actions to support those identities. I want to
see myself as athletic, I better go for a run.
If I want to see myself as healthy, I better
eat salad once in a while. And so if we
turn actions like voting into identities like being a voter,
(09:33):
it makes people much more likely to take those actions. Right, voting, Oh,
I know I should do it, but I'm busy. But
hold on. If voting is an opportunity to be a voter, now,
I'm much more likely to do it. And so by
turning those actions into identities, we can make people more
likely to take the desired actions now.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And John, we really we avoid politics on the show
pretty stringently, so I'm not trying to get us into
a political conversation. I'm just fascinated based on what you said.
By changing your language of invitation to identify with a
group or to self identify you're able to create an action.
(10:10):
Do you feel that it is then possible. I'm going
to keep it in the voting world, that language alone
could have made a voter identify with a particular party,
or a particular cause, or a particular candidate. Are we
that malleable and susceptible to language that you could take
it a step further?
Speaker 4 (10:29):
You know, I want to be careful here. I'm not
saying that, you know, one word makes everybody do everything
in any way, shape or form. But on the margins,
these things matter. Right. Let's say, you know, I asked
you which is worse, losing or being a loser. That's
an easy thing to answer, right, you say, well, being
a loser is much worse. A terrible version of this.
There's recently something that press where somebody said, you know,
(10:51):
a certain actor didn't just had not just farted on set,
but they were a farther right. They called them a farter.
Oh I know, And now farther's like right, It's like, oh,
I am a farther. That's a stable part of that
would be the worst thing ever, And so you're much
more likely to avoid negative things if they would lead
you to hold that identity. And so it's a subtle difference,
(11:12):
but the difference between actions and identities is an important.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
So what pops out to me too is we have
a whole generation now people who don't just influence their
influencer exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know, I think that was a really smart branding
move from whether you think about it, is these platforms
that have created these things, or the individuals themselves. Right,
people don't just create, they are creators. They don't just
influence their influencers suddenly. Now it doesn't sound just like
a side hustle, sounds like a full time job, right,
It sounds like an ingrained part of who people are.
(11:46):
And so I think these subtle shifts can have a
big impact. Right, if you want to help someone get
a job, right, rather than saying, oh they lead or
they're innovative, saying they are an innovator or they are
a leader's going to make it seem like it's a
more stable part of who they are. And so these
small shifts can actually make a big difference.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, you know, also for me, as I as I
listened to that explanation, I could feel this thing come
up in me which was pushback against that because if
someone says to me, listen, I'm representing this thing and
I'd like to try and influence you to see if
you if it works for you, I'd like to try
and do that. I'm I feel like I'm immediately more
open to it. If they say, well, this person's an influencer.
(12:26):
This is what they do is they bring people over
to their influence. I go now, I'm immediately resisting. You
can I jump? Can I jump to something else? From that?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And again, influencer, you're pushing back because there's there's there's
a certainty implied there that they know what's okay.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, Well, my brother once said to me, the best leaders,
the biggest guys in the world, is one thing they
all have in common. They speak with certainty and certainty works.
And I know you use Trump and you you predicated
by doesn't matter if you hate them or love them.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Explain the certainty there and why certainty works. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So again, I don't I don't want to get into
politics either, but whether you like Trump or not, you
can't disagree that he's done a pretty amazing job of
getting people to adopt his ideas. If you like those ideas,
you're probably pretty happy about it. You hate those ideas,
you're probably pretty unhappy about it. But one question, an
interesting question, is why has it worked? Right, even if
you don't like it, you can't deny that it's working
(13:24):
for at least some set of people. And so why
And so if you look at the way he speaks,
it's not actually unique to him.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
He speaks the same way that's so called guru speak
that startup founders often speak. He speaks with a great
deal of certainty.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
He doesn't say, oh, you know, this might happen, this
may be a good idea. I think this. He speaks
in absolutes.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
He doesn't speak in grays shades of gray, speaks in
black and white. Right, I'm going to build a great wall,
the best wall that's ever been built. America doesn't have
victories anymore. We used to, but we don't have them.
He speaks that sort of this is exactly how it is.
And contrast that with a how a lot of us speak. Right,
I'll pick on myself for an example. I'm an academic,
and so we tend to use a lot of hedges.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Oh, well, maybe in some situations this might be and
I think this, and this is possible, and it's not
surprising then that other people sit there going wow, if
you're not even sure yourself, why should I listen to you?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
There's a lot of research, for example, in the context
of financial advisors, that shows that the more certainty someone
speaks with, even by the way, if they're wrong, the
more certainty they speak with, the more likely people are
to pick them as a financial adviser. Because people are
sitting there going, wow, you seem so confident you must
be right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
I want to be careful here. I don't mean to
suggest that we should never hedge.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
There are certainly cases where we may want a hedge.
We may want to step back, We may want to
say this might be true, or I think or things
along those lines. But we certainly shouldn't just say those
things because it's easy.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Some of us do that because it's a simple verbal tick. Right.
We're sitting there, Oh, I'm not sure. I want to
buy myself time, and so I'm going to hedge to
give myself a chance to think about what I want
to say. But when we're doing that, we're subtly undermining
our own impact, right, and they're better and worse ways
to hedge. So there's a difference between saying if someone
asks you for your opinion, saying, oh, you know, I
(15:18):
don't know, versus I think, hey, this is a great idea,
but there are three things that need to happen for
this to work.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
That's a situation where yes, I'm not saying it's for
sure it's going to happen. I'm calling out the uncertain right.
I'm saying I think it's a good idea, but for
it to work, these things need to happen. And so
what I'm suggesting is not that we should or never
use certainty, but we should strategically speak with when you.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A consult, because you consult some of the biggest companies
in the world, the more certainty you can put in
your cell that you're legally allowed to say. A lot
of them have asterisks because you can't say guaranteed to
make your dog live longer. Is that come up about
pushing the envelope as close to certainty in messaging as
you pos possibly can.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, So I want to be careful here. I'm not
advocating that people lie, and I'm not advocating that people
be over confident, right, because there's certainly situations where when
we say something with certainty and then later on someone
realizes that what we said isn't true, it hurts us right.
And by the way, there are even times you want
to express out right. So if I'm on a team
(16:22):
or I'm a leader walking into a meeting and I
say this is how it is, it's going to make
everyone else feel like they shouldn't share their opinions because
I'm already so certain. But if I walk in right
and I so I'm not sure, and I use language
that indicates I'm not sure, now, it's going to make
other people feel more comfortable sharing their own opinion. Again,
it's a strategic tool, right, just like any other tool.
(16:44):
There are times for a hammer, there are times for
a saw. Same thing here, there are times to be certain,
and there are times to express out.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Can I jump around a little ajournal and give you
because this is what blew me away that you asked
the question did the dog go out? Or did you
take the dog out? And you point out, oh, all
of a sudden, this is my job to take the
dog out.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
So you add you in.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
There and it completely becomes a whole different attitude.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
So this is something I found interesting. So, you know,
I work with different companies organizations. Someone asked me, hey,
can you figure out what's working on our social media?
So I went out there, analyzed all their social media posts,
looks at what's in getting engagement, what's not found? One word,
the word you, had a big impact on engage right
on social media. When you say you know, rather than
here are five tips to save money, you say, here
(17:33):
are five tips to save you money, or if I
said you know ways to be healthier, these are ways
for you to be healthier. Adding you increases engagement. It's
almost like a stop sign. Right When people see that word,
their attention draws and they go, oh, this is speaking
more to me than it might have been otherwise. And
so then the company said, fantastic, that's really wonderful. Can
(17:53):
you do the same thing for our help pages. So
imagine you have an issue with your iPhone, your watch
isn't working, your printer's not doing whatever. You go to
their site to figure out why, and so there we
actually found that you had the opposite effect. You wasn't helpful.
You didn't make those pages better. It made people feel
like they were less helpful. And so I was sitting
there going, well, why right, why is you good on
(18:14):
social media? But you is not so good on help pages?
And I realized two things. First, you was good for
grabbing attention, but on help pages things like help but
you don't need to grab people's attention people already there.
But second, you can make people feel like, well, you're
blaming your phone. I'm responsible for this. If I say, hey,
if your phone is broken, you need to do X,
(18:35):
Y and z, you're sitting there ground, why is it
my phone? Right, it's your phone. Your phone is broken?
Why do I have to do something about it? And
so these are what can be called accusatory use, right,
and these often happen in our personal lives. Right, you
get home and someone says, hey, did you walk the dog?
Did you make dinner? At the office, someone said did
you finish that report? And what that person really means is, hey,
did the report get done? Did the dog get walked?
(18:56):
Is their dinner available? But they feel right, you feel
like you're being a taught.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know this is an on track, but off track.
I get fascinated by this stuff. So I assume in
your personal relationships with your significant other, spouse, whatever it
may be, that you know, we drag therapy speak into
our relationships. You have a professional understanding of this. I'm
sure you are able to employ some of these techniques
(19:21):
in your interpersonal relationships. Does your significant significant other ever
go stop doing that to me? I know what you're doing?
Does it ever come up?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You know?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It turns out.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
We drag therapy speak into our relationships. You have a
professional understanding of this. I'm sure you are able to
employ some of these techniques and your into personal relationships.
Does your significant significant other ever go stop doing that
to I know what you're doing that? Does it ever
come up?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You know? It turns out my spouse is also behavioral scientists,
and so she's even more aware of this. Well then
one might be in a usual situation. But the nice
thing is we can both sort of sit there and
analyze it, right. We can be well, oh why did
I why did I feel that way? Or oh did
you did you mean.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
It that way?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Or maybe that's this, and so it's almost like a
little mini experiment going on every day in our own lives.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, to that end, if everybody because what you're doing
is you're you know, you're educating people as to how
language can have this effect. Do you feel like if
everybody understood and was able to some degree adopt some
of the techniques you're talking about, would it make communication
work better or would we all go Now that we
(20:47):
all know it, none of us are being influenced by it.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, you know, it's tough. And sometimes people also say
things like, oh, is this manipulation, right? Are you just
you know, you're just getting people to do something they
wouldn't do otherwise. And I think what's tough, right is
manipulation depends a little bit on the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
So, if you're using certain words to get people to
eat more fruits and vegetables and exercise more and support
good causes and take better care of the planet, people say, great,
you know, keep doing it right. And if instead you're
using language to get people to buy junk and destroy
the planet and treat their bodies badly, then you'd say
it's not so good. And so I think with many
of these tools, you know, it often happens without our awareness,
(21:26):
particularly in spoken communication.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Jona, we're in writers' rooms, we create shows, and you
want people to be creative. How to engage somebody with
solutions to problems? Different ways to say it, which could
yield a more creative result.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah. So there's a great old study again that looked
at this experiment where they ask people to solve a
variety of tough problems, difficult things, making choices, coming up
with creative solutions, all the things you might do in
a writer's room. And for some people, they ask them
to use the traditional approach to solving a problem, to
being think about what you should do right, think about
(22:02):
what you should do in this situation. For another set
of people, they ask them to do something very slightly different.
Rather than ask them to think about what they should do,
they ask them to think about what they could do.
And again, the difference between should and could is very small,
it's only a few letters different. Yet that had a
big impact on how good a problem solver they were
and how creative they became. Talking thinking in terms of
(22:25):
colds made people come up with a lot better and
more creative. So reason why though it makes a lot
of sense right when we think about shoulds, it makes
us think there's one right answer, what should I do?
There's one right thing, and I just have to discover it.
I'm gonna think and think and think till I get there.
Whereas what I'm thinking colds, I open my blinders a
little bit. Right now, I'm looking around to think about
(22:46):
what's possible. Right, we've all done brainstorming where not everything
is possible is a good idea. So I'm not saying
all of those things you come up with, but by
thinking about what you could do, you think about a
broader set of things which helps you come up with
the better solution.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
It took me right out, as a guy who's always
tasked with that writing and thinking of solutions, all of
a sudden it opened up. Yeah, free, just that one word.
If I say, what could we do? What could the
character du He could mountain? We can go as big
as we want to pull it back. So it just
it hit me.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And my question is, now that you've had this revelation,
how could it serve me? And should it serve you?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And should should it come back? Should could can't? Whatever
you don't of the books are fascinating. I would love
to have you back on you know what I.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Want to ask before we say goodbye to you? I
know initially when when Peter first told me about you
and your work, he said, four magic words for magic words,
I don't know that we've laid them out. There are
there really four magic words that that would change communication instantly.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
So I would say there there are a number of
buckets of magic words, these types of magic words. Okay,
I put them in a framework I like to call
the speak framework. Yes, For the ASS is the language
of similarity and difference. The HE is the language of
posing questions. We didn't get a chance to talk about it,
but questions are so so powerful they do a lot
of interesting work in communication. The E is for the
language of emotion. The A is for the language of
(24:10):
agency and identity. We talked about some of those, right,
being a voter rather than voting, helper rather than help.
And then the last two letters of the language of
confidence and the language of concreteness, And we talked a
little about that language of concreteness, so the language of certainty, sorry,
talking about fillers and talking about hedges and those sorts
(24:32):
of things. And so each of those six buckets are
a type of language that aren't just for magic words.
I wish, I wish there were but there's types of
language that we can use in a variety of situations.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
While we're on that, because you brought up questions, and
I love questions, because they.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Asked some questions I was going to say, I just
had an example of one at a talk back that
I did where I do an entertainment Q and a show,
but it was before the election. Then somebody asked me
if they're allowed to ask me anything, but we usually
keep it to show business stuff, but they said, who
are you voting for? And what I did is I said,
you know what, let me answer that question with a question,
(25:09):
what do you care about? What are the things you
care about most. I'll tell you what I care about,
and you tell me what you care about, and then
you know, here we go, but we'll see what we are.
But it was a much more interesting way because I
think that what I found in my conversation with people,
particularly on politics and identification, is the minute you say
(25:31):
i'm I'm of this party or I'm of this candidate
or I'm of the communication stops. But if I say, well,
you know, here's what I care about. I care that
you know, people get seen and heard and treated fairly.
I care about people feeling safe in their homes and
their communities. Oh I do too, Okay, Well, so we
all care about the same thing. So now it's just
(25:52):
a question of how do we make as many people
as possible. I have that right, and it becomes a
very different compet.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I mean, I think Jason's example shows a number of
things that I like a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
One is, you can use questions almost to deflect things. Right,
someone asks you a question you either don't want to
answer you don't think is appropriate, you can ask them
a question back. Questions almost like spotlights, Right. They shine
attention on something in a conversation in one's mind, and
you can use them to direct the focus of conversations.
But they can also be really nicely switched the field
(26:21):
of something.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Politics is, as you said, often feels like this field
where Democrats are on run end and Republicans are on
the other, and there's sort of no middle ground. But
there's a different field on which we're all on the
same spot, right, a different dimension. We all care about
our families, we all want the country to better off,
we all want the best for our children. All these
things that we have in common, and sometimes starting with
what we have in common. And this is actually a
(26:43):
lot of what I talk about in a different book
called The Catalyst, which is all about changing people's minds,
but really starting with that understanding, starting with understanding who
you're talking to and what they care about, and starting
on the same page rather than starting at a place
of difference, can make you more likely to listen to
one another's There's this great old Heineken sort of campaign
or skit that's online you can watch where they take
(27:05):
people that you think would hate each other, so like
misogynists and women, or people that hate transgender people and
someone who's transgendered, and they have them have a conversation.
Except rather than starting by realizing they hate each other,
they start by doing something in common.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
They start by having a conversation about something else. They
start by building a bar together. They start by doing
something that connects them, and then along the way they realize, well, wait,
this is a person who in theory I wouldn't like,
But now once I've gotten to know them, they're not
so one dimensional, right, They're not just this category. They're
a person, and once they're a person, that category is
part of who they are. But it's not the only
(27:39):
part of that. They are now much more interested in
keeping that conversation.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Also, you point out that asking a question in the
workplace reflects well on you because we are a narcissist.
So the fact that you were smart enough to come
to me to ask me the question makes you, right,
isn't that kind.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Of This is a really a simple, a simple point,
but a good We all think about asking for advice.
We all know someone who knows more about something than
we do, right, maybe it's a colleague, a peer, a boss, somebody.
But often we're afraid to ask for advice. Maybe that
person won't know the answer, or they'll be busy. We
don't want to bother them. But even worse, they'll think
less of us right by asking them for advice. They'll
(28:17):
think we don't know what we're doing, and so we
don't want to ask. Turns out that intuition is completely wrong.
It's not that asking for advice makes you seem worse.
It's not that it has no effect. In fact, just
the opposite. It makes you seem more competent and more knowledgeable.
And if if you wonder why, it's not just because
asking for advice makes you seem curious, which is a
good thing, but it also takes advantage of other people's egocentrics. Right.
(28:41):
We all love to think that we give it good advice.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
If I ask you, guys, do you give good advice?
You wouldn't sit. They're going no, I don't give good advice, right,
and say, oh me, of course I give good advice, right,
I give great advice. And so when someone comes us
to us and ask us for our advice, we sit.
They're going, Wow, that person's so smart. Out of all
the people they could have they asked me, they must
have a really good taste, right, and so we think
positively about them as a results. So the clear take
(29:06):
home is just ask for advice. Not only do we
get that useful information, but it'll make you seem smart.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
But you're sucking up. You're sucking up. No, I get it.
It's a dope.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I've had I'm doing a show out with a bunch
of younger actors and several of them have come up
and said, hey, you know, how do you find yourself
doing this or that or the other thing? And you
know it is one of those things where you go, well,
it feel really good if I'm able to pass into
my experience on It's very sweeter than to ask me.
You know, I totally get what he said.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Oh yeah, but you never think about it until also
you point, and I know I could keep you on
all day long. Tense movie was good, movie is good, huge, huge, different.
I mean these are like catasclismic. You don't even realize
what that says when you ask that question and you
just change that thing, right, just tense, tense can be huge.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yeah, Well, think about it. When you say the movie
was good, it suggests that when I saw it that time,
it was good. When you say the movie is good,
it suggests that for everyone, for all time, it will
be fantastic. Right, when you say the food was good,
it sounds like on the Tuesday you went to the
restaurant it was decent. But if you say the food
is good, it suggests that everyone will love it whenever
they go.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Fascinating, And again we just scratched the surface. Jona's book, Jela,
I am, I'm serious. I'm a terrible reader, but I'm
so fascinated by this conversation.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I'm running out. I'm gonna whis the first book I
should get? If you, guys, what's the one I would
enjoy the most?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Oh goodness, what it sounds? What what kind of problem do
you want to solve? Right? So, if you're interested in language, yeah,
magic words is good.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
If you're interested in why things catch on, word of mouth,
why things go viral, contagious is the best one. You're
interested in changing someone's mind, how to do that? Removing
barriers to change the catalyst is best. And they're sort
of the The Ugly step Child or the Four Books,
which is called Invisible Influence, which guess let's do but
is all about influence and how it often happens without
our work.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And again we've just scratched the surface. It just goes
on and on and on, and white bulbs keep going off.
Thank you, thanks for coming on, Thanks for the work.
What you do is gives is fascinating? Is that the
right word that we want? He was fascinating the right word.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But it's an appropriate word, all right. It is fascinating
that it was fascinating.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
He is fast, he is fat, and by the way,
he also was fascinating.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, and where he's going here Now I'm going to
do an accusatory you you may have messed that up,
all right, So I'm not sure I got the buckets.
I didn't get the word, so I got I guess
(31:39):
I gotta pay for the word. You gotta pay for
the word. I gotta pay.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But I'm thinking back. The guy who influenced you the
most in college to acting was William Shatner. Yeah, was
Captain Kirk. Did he speak with certainty all the time?
He got, yes, That's what It's really interesting. He gave
him lines that were certainty.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yes, even even when what he was speaking of expressed
uncertainty when he said doctor McCoy is right and pointing
out the huge risk involved engaging creatures of another world.
But risk is our business.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Right, I mean, but I'm thinking they gave that's a
character spoke with certainty all the time, and Spot spoke
with certainty. And yes, it's a different kind because it
was emotionless. Which is funny because then you went on
to one of the most successful sitcoms where everybody showed uncertainty,
although you.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Were I think everybody. I think the thing in Seinfeld
is you got four people absolutely what you're doing. None
of it is right. So that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
So George was certain about stuff but completely wrong, right, Absolutely,
jerkstore is the line jerkstore. I'm going with jerkstore.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I mean, you know, it's a certainty. It's really fascinating
once you start taking apart. But certainty is that is
the absolute of comedy. Look at Jackie Gleeson, look at
all the great comedians, especially in television. They develop an
answer to a situation that the rest of us know
is absolutely wrong, but they're certain it's right and they
(33:04):
won't let go. That's amazing, well, powerful, fascinating, fascinating. You
know you did you have anything on that one? David?
You know I always have something on everything. I'm fascinated.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
That's that's why I make the big bucks.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I understand. Today.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
Of course, we've been talking about the power of words,
especially how we string them together.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
But do you know what the first words were? First
words ever created by humans? That is exactly right.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
We're talking fifteen thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I'm imagining. How hot I know that's what big one?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Fire fire fire fire fire fire Wait wait wait, wait,
how do we know that?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Who documented that? It was written on a wall? And
so much?
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Mark Mark Pagal of the University of Reading School of
biological sciences. They did research in twenty thirteen that obviously
nothing was written down, but using human syntax and what
would have been important at that time, they have put
together what some of the first words would be, like
(34:09):
I we fire mother, and of course because of the
chosen people.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
No, you know what's funny?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
You know what's funny? What I think about here? Thank you?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What I think about here? Thank you for the negative.
What I think about here is just like the dinosaurs.
We thought there were certain color and then all of
a sudden they earth stared, they are wrong, and other stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
They're all wrong. I'd love to find a cave from
you know, fifty thousand years ago that has an arrow
and the word exit. I'd love to just see that
up on the wall, you know, just the same.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I'm going to sue your ass is up on the
wall of summer. Yeah, because they.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Would, you know, seriously, so if you didn't have language,
and we absolutely had to name some things in order
to get along, I you that would be that would
make sense? Good? Bad? That would make sense? What want
need mine? Or right? Sex? Well sex, there has to
be something for we're getting together. That's why they meant
(35:12):
why that's why the word no was.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And then headache would be in there, right in there,
and and depressed depressed.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, but if you think about it, what what would
you need?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Foods, some kind of food thing, hunting things, things, the
things that would keep you by the way things would
keep you alive, like run run, yeah, bear, or name
a thing why bear? And then you got the context
of say quicker together like run bear, not run why
and he's gone?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know, but it is you know, it's interesting. We
should have somebody to do this. There are universal sounds
that we make under certain situations, like ow I was
you know, I said, what would be the first one out?
Almost universally some form of our ouch is the sound
we make when we're in pain.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
But like thousands of years ago, did they make that
sound or did they go globe them?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I don't know whether it's the first time. That would
be very interesting to find out. Has it always been?
Is it? Is it a breathing sound that became you know,
vocalized on that? Good on that? Let me do you
want me to look into it? Yeah, okay, let me
make up a word for English. I'm going to get
to it. It is interesting how language and how long
(36:20):
it took to develop? Ye yeah, fascinating. Right, all right,
all right, this could be the end. This should be
the end. This is the end. This was the end,
and cannight no really.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
As another episode if really no really he comes to
a close. I know you're wondering, what are some common
English words that mean something very offensive in other languages? Well,
all big guile you in a moment. But first let's
thank our guest to doctor Joonah Berger. You can follow
doctor Berger on x where he is at j one Burger,
or you can go to his website jonah Berger dot com.
(36:55):
Find all pertinent links in our show notes, our little
shell hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and threads at
really no Really podcasts, And of course you can share
your thoughts and feedback with us online at reallynoreally dot com.
If you have a really some amazing factor story that
boggles your mind, share it with us, and if we
(37:15):
use it, we will send you a little gift. Nothing
life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts. Check
out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe button
and take that bell so you're updated when we release
new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So
listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts. And now, what common
(37:37):
English words are actually a bit offensive in other languages? Well,
I said, I would beguile you, but maybe not if
you speak German or the word guile means horny. You
might little a baby to sleep in English, but lull
in Dutch means penis, which as far as I know,
is not an effective sleep aid. Puff might be a
magic dragon and the English speaking song, but in Germany
(37:58):
puff would be a magic brothel. Salsa is a Spanish
word that we English speakers now commonly use for a
spicy condiment. However, in Korean that same word means diarrhea,
a decidedly less popular condiment, and truer words have.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Never been spoken.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Really No, Really is production of iHeartRadio and Blase Entertainment
Hosts And Creators
Peter Tilden
Jason Alexander
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