November 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Akilah returns to Florence for one last push toward change as she speaks at the final Boone County High School SBDC meeting of the school year, which just so happens to be on Juneteenth.
If you have a racist mascot at your high school, or are an alumni of a high school with a racist mascot, and want to share your own experience, please email us at rebelspiritpodcast@gmail.com. We would love to talk to you!
And if you'd like to send words of encouragement to Boone County High School or the Boone County School Board about changing the BCHS mascot please feel free to use the below emails:
stacey.black@boone.kyschools.us
Go Biscuits!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Ninth Planet audio con we're overlanding.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I don't know if you're busy, but we're basically trying
to get them to change the mascot and in trouble.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I don't know if you got a flyer.
Speaker 5 (00:22):
I did.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Oh, well, here you go.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We're we're gonna be at Boom County tonight trying to
convince them to change the mascot.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Finally, you know, we're just trying to kick a little horn,
says or at least post it. Send it to your friend,
anybody you know who's around. That'd be great.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
The news is coming and we're in town going to
the site thing or the school bay. Yeah, and you know,
student teams and they didn't call off, so it's time.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
To remind them who.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Sorry, that last episode was a bummer, but surely you
didn't think that was enough to keep me down. I
ask again, have you met me? Well, only one episode
is transpired between the last time you heard from me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
The actual timeline is that it's been six months since
we were last in Florence, six months since we were
blown off by the school board and the school based
Decision Making Council and I'd like to report here on
our last episode that in that time there's been a
lot of headway made, but the reality is that we're
both exactly where we were six months ago and light
years ahead. We've been keeping busy with interviews, with fact finding,
(01:24):
and with outreach, exactly the stuff you've been listening to
in the last few episodes, and maybe hopefully the board
has been busy too with the committee Principal Black claimed
had been formed. But listener, there's no actual evidence as
of yet, no announcements, no surveys, nothing we could point
a finger at and say yes, progress. And so it
(01:46):
was time to visit Florence again, to speak and to
build a movement. And when I saw that the June
School based Decision Making Council meeting for Boone County High
School was falling on Juneteenth, well I knew there was
only one place to start. Florence, Kentucky second Annual Juneteenth Celebration.
Hearda you were reached out to by Miss Juneteenth yesterday.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
How did it go? What did she What does she
have to say?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
I guess she is like she's aware of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, she's aware of her thought process. What I do
can you be a dance judge. Oh yeah, you gotta
go do that. You gotta go do a job well.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Juneteenth has been celebrated for over one hundred and fifty years.
It has only been a federal holiday for four In
case it's new to you for some reason, Juneteenth commemorates
on June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, when enslaved people in
Texas learned that they had been freed fully two years earlier,
when the Emancipation Proclamation made slavery illegal. It's a bittersweet
(02:43):
holiday that reminds us all of Maya Angelou's famous quote,
none of us can be free until everybody is free.
I personally didn't learn about Juneteenth as a holiday until college,
in keeping with the holiday's tradition of being the last
to know, though it seems that truly the last to
know were the administrators at Boone County High School, who
scheduled a meeting on this national holiday, and so we
(03:05):
thought we'd bring the message to them. Do you know
anybody who's around Boone County tonight at six o'clock, the
news will be the for putting them on notice.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Get free.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I went to Boone County. We're really, what year seventy six? Okay,
how were the Confederate flags?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Then?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Oh they were Confederate, they were doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's also wild that like the governor's declared a holiday,
we have a national holiday, and they.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Didn't move the meeting, right, doesn't look good for them.
It's like, oh, well for our Yeah, the narrative actually.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Seems to be pretty honest and pretty honest. They seem
committed to the confederacy bit. So we'll see, we'll see
if we can fix it. The juneteen celebration wasn't held
in downtown Florence, but instead up a winding road at
a nature center in town. There were a couple of
times that we were sure we'd taken a wrong turn,
but eventually we found it. There were tents selling homemade
(03:56):
products and food, a snow cone truck, info boots for
per regressive causes, and also the police. Music was playing.
Kids were everywhere, and while it wasn't exactly comfortable, extreme
heat and humidity pegged the temperature over one hundred degrees.
It was joyous. We arrived armed with smiles and a
pile of flyers encouraging people to join us at the
(04:16):
school based decision making council meeting that night, I planned
to speak again, even after my last demoralizing attempt. I figured,
with a bigger crowd, some local news, and the spirit
of Juneteenth on my side, maybe this time would be different.
It's a million degrees, it's the middle of summer, thankfully
no cicadas, and I'm honestly just hoping we can get like,
we can talk to some cool people, get a sense
(04:39):
of how much people really care about this, and maybe
get a snow cone.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
The meeting. Yeah, we have a flyer for you all.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
My favorite progressives in the area were there, Amber Hoffman,
our local activist mom, Leslie Chambers, city council member and
parent one of my least favorite people were there, namely
that black district parent that told me that I was
wrong off the record in episode one. But other than that,
it was wonderful meeting the kind of people who wanted
to celebrate Juneteenth in my small town. Yeah, we are
(05:12):
here trying to change the mascot of Boone County.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yes, you know, Yeah, it was where I'm from.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It was the West Hopkins Rebels.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, wait where in Kentucky. It was Nebo Kentucky. You
know that little small did they change there? So they
changed theirs, but Boone County, it was it was not
an easy thing. Yeah, they thought.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
There's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, I'm trying to diplomatic.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
There's a lot of push back.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A lot of people were committed to the cause on
both sides.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But ultimately it seems like justice one did there the
storms getting you there. What do you feel like has
been your biggest opposition?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Oh wow, you know, objectively, I think the school I
think there's a lot of bureaucracy, and you know, though
it's something that's been brought up for years, they're just
very much like, well, we have to set a process,
to set a process and have a meeting, and I'm like,
it's been it's actually not that hard. And we've spoken
to principals who've made the change at their school like nationwide,
and you.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Know, we have this blueprint. We keep offering it to them.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
They're just not a local school decision or is it
a school board decision.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Well, it's kind of both.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
The school board has tried to skirt it, but we
talked to the state and the State's like, that's absolutely
in the.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
School board's purview. So we're kind of in like a.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Unique space because it seems like they're just pushing us
back and forth, like talk to the board, talk to
the school.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Talk to the school, talk to the board. So we're
gonna talk to both.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And so here we are back in Florence one last
time on Juneteenth to make what the late Great John
Lewis called good trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I was a lady rebel, like, what does that even need?
Speaker 7 (06:49):
The Boone County Rebels will stay.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The Boone County Rebels with the image of.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right here in black and white and friends.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
In my end bigger than a flag or mascot. Anytime
you're trying to mess with tradition, you had.
Speaker 8 (07:01):
To be ready for a serious backlash.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
From Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akuila Hughes and this is
Rebel Spirit Episode ten. Stay Free. The Juneteenth Festival was fascinating.
It was small, mostly people who knew each other from
sharing a common cause on issues like SB one fifty,
the transgender student bill that passed when we first arrived.
(07:33):
It was good talking to some new people, especially the
black people of Florence, about what we've been trying to do. No,
they got rid of the flag, but they a gard
of the Mass, but the team is still the Rebels,
still named for the Confederacy, still celebrating all that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So if you want to come, or if you know anybody.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Who's ready tonight, six o'clock just down the street, just
show up. I mean, if you want to, if you
feel compelled to speak, it would be helpful. But honestly,
just having people to you know, show the school like
we care about this. We're black, we live here, like
just it's Juneteenth, Like, first of all, you shouldn't be
having this meeting, but secondly.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Like why are you here?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Right, it's a holiday, but also like it is very
strange that, like, you know, for celebrating freedom, let's get free.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You guys lost the war. Listen, I had a telem exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, it's one hundred and fifty nine years later, But
happy junetee, you're free.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
That's basically what we're here to tell them. So do
you listen to podcasts? Do well?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
You could check it out. The trailer came out yesterday.
It's making some waves around here. If you just type
in Rebel Spirits to come up. It's a picture of
a biscuit with googly eyes on top of showing up
for this meeting ready to speak. We also released the
trailer for the podcast before we arrived. We were hoping
they'd see it for what it was. That people are
now going to start looking at the school. I mean,
(08:53):
now is a great time to do something in The
Cincinnati Inquirer publish an article about the podcast, giving us
a glimpse of the reactions to expect, both for the
podcast to release and the ensuing discourse. I think, unsurprisingly,
there are a lot of very loud people who are
in support of the mascot, who are saying it's based
(09:14):
on rebel without a cause and she's just the real racist,
and you know she wants to change history, and you
know it's funny, Like I really didn't think of it
still upset me so much, but it actually really does.
Like these are people who have their face and name
(09:35):
next to Like it's not like Twitter right where they
are anonymous and you can just be like these are trolls.
It's like these are people with first name, last name,
photos of them and their family, some of them identifying
themselves as teachers at Boone County being like the students
don't care about this, don't You're just making a controversy
where there isn't one, and you know, rehashing lives they
were told. And I just feel like it's especially hurtful
(09:58):
when it's people like that, because it's like, you're an educator,
you should care about what's true. You should also like
maybe question if your students feel comfortable speaking to you
about like what they care about, because I'm like, I'm
sure you didn't ask, so how would you even know?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
But it's just been like ough.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
This morning, I woke up to like a friend of
mine sharing her comment on it on Instagram and just
being like, there's a.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Lot of racists in these comments.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
We knew we were going to get into it when
the trailer dropped. We are here for a healthy discussion
since both facts and logic are on our side, but
one of the comments cut deep. Never heard Sean Alexander
complain about it, or principal George Floyd who played in
the NFO.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But this chick, she's upset with it.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
We have racist people hiding behind black faces to be like, yeah,
well they said it's fine, so you know they're black feelings,
strump yours.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's like you don't even know them, you don't even know.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
That not every comment was in support of the Confederacy,
though Sin said something that I really appreciated. I'll just
read their common in full. They said, anyone trying to
defend this mascot has got to be the saddest person
in the Tri state area. If you're clinging on to
high school nostalgia over a dumb racist caricature in its
remaining remnants, push on, clearly, your life is fine if
(11:17):
that's your biggest concern here. Boone County has huge forests
and parks. Be the Rangers of the Grizzlies or something
simple like the Stallions or whatever. And twelve people liked
it so much, Right, Boone County Rangers. That's cute. And
so this was it. We'd gotten our snow cones, we
handed out flyers, we'd released a trailer, and already had
(11:40):
a glimpse of the controversy we'd be causing. Soon there
was only one thing left to do, to return once
again to Boone County High School to speak. Despite six
months of effort, I still felt uncertain about what more
I could say beyond expressing my disappointment. Facts hadn't changed
their minds, resources hadn't made a difference, and even my
(12:03):
consistent presence hadn't been enough to convince them that public
action was necessary. The only message I could bring was
that soon it wouldn't be just me to answer slash
not answer to. They'd have to face the growing scrutiny
of the public and the press. My final presentation to
the school when we come back. When I made my
appeal to the school based decision making counsel in December,
(12:26):
I spoke for two rousing minutes. The minutes of that
meeting are brief and clinical. Akila Hughes voiced her concern
regarding the absence of a BHS mascot. Miss Hughes stated
in twenty seventeen, the mascot was removed and needs to
be replaced by a mascot that would be non shaming
and would serve our diverse student body. Miss Hughes offered
her resources.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Unquote.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
This mirrors the minutes from July twenty twenty when Spencer
presented his petition to quote, disuse the rebel name and
find a new mascot. Unquote. There's a famous saying that
doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results is the definition of madness. So this time we're
going to take a different approach. This time I was
putting them unnoticed. Great, I'm going to stand all right,
(13:11):
let me know when I are you ready. Hi, I'm
Akhela Hughes. I'm a BCCHS alum from the class of
two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Happy June teenth.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
By the way, it's one hundred and fifty nine years late,
but I'm happy to share the good news with you.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
The war is over, the rebels lost.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Black people are now equal, and you can do away
with your team name and move into the future.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And what better time.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Next year is the seventieth anniversary of Boone County High School.
It's also the seventieth anniversary of Brown Versus Board of Education,
which integrated American public schools. It's certainly not too soon
to try to create an inclusive environment at BCCHS. Over
the past year, I've tried desperately to work with you
to make the transition away from the rebels with input
(13:54):
from the student and parent community. I was here in
September homecoming week to speak with you, but you push
off to the board. I came back and spoke to
this very council in December with resources to share. You
told us you needed to form a committee to form
a process, more bureaucracy. I'm here looking for some progress now.
I mean as educators, you're familiar with check ins and benchmarks,
(14:16):
so you've had six months. Where are we on this?
This is a crisis in leadership. We spoke with the
principle of Denver South in Colorado, who was instrumental in
changing their mascot from the Rebels to the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
He said that as a.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Leader, you have to choose which hill you want to
die on and guess what. They changed the mascot and
everyone loves it. The school community is more engaged than ever.
There's another Colorado high school that hasn't changed from the
rebels yet though Columbine. Maybe you've heard of it. The
values you spout need to need action to support them.
We've been nice, available, agreeable, and invested. So on September third,
(14:54):
the Rebel Spirit podcast will be released to the world
and they will see exactly what we've been up against
in trying to bring progress opportunity to you. You still
have time to be on the right side of this,
but you're going to have to actually do something. We
aren't going anywhere. This issue isn't going anywhere. See you
in September, and then Amber Hoffman, who is one of
(15:15):
our first allies on the ground in Florence as well.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Obviously I'm here in support of Aciullite, whos and what
she's doing. But I live in Boone County. I grew
up in Boone County. I currently raise two children in
Boone County, and I understand that you guys are trying
to move forward. I've seen the progress that you've tried
to make with you getting rid of the mascot, trying
to change the name. I see the inclusivity stickers all
(15:40):
over every door in this room. I was a district ambassador,
so I've been in and out of this building several
times for that as well. I sit on the s
BDM at Camp Bern's Middle School right now, so I
understand the awesome responsibility that you guys have and what
you're doing. But I also want to share something with
you from the perspective of not just a parent, as
a Boom County resident community member. There's two things you
(16:04):
should know. The first one is that the state of
Kentucky takes in the fourth highest level of immigrants in
the country where there are only three other states that
take more immigrants than we do, and that's Texas, New York,
and California. Okay, so we have a growing and diverse population, and.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know it.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
We are getting those students in every day. I know
that one of our middle schools got over thirty students
from Guatemala in like a one month period of time.
So this is our opportunity to show those families that
we care about people of color and what matters to them.
She is an alumni, she has been here before.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know her, But.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
I'm also going to live here and I'm going to
be here, and when she's not here, we will be
back on her behalf. Because this is important to me,
it should be very important to you as well. And
I know that you guys care about the kids. I've
worked with educators and individuals that take the time to
do this kind of work, and I know that you're
here because you care about the students. This is an
(17:04):
opportunity to give students of color the chance to understand
that not only do you care about them, that this
may not be an issue that's touching them currently, but
you understand in the long run it will in high school,
she may not have cared necessarily that her rebel mascot
was a former Confederate soldier, but now as an adult,
she can look back and be ashamed of that. And
(17:27):
you have the opportunity to change that for the students
that are currently going to school here. So I encourage
you to do that, and again we will be back.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Short of just playing every episode of Rebel Spirit for
these decision makers in some kind of hostage takeover situation,
I can't think of how to state our cause and
reasoning more plainly. But I remember, especially after speaking with
Ronda Lavaldo in episode five about changing the names of
Native American branded sports teams, that there's only so much
explaining you can do before you realize it's not about
(17:57):
making it clearer, it's about whether they're are ready to
listen to actually hear it. And sometimes no matter how
plain you make it, you don't see the light turn
on behind their eyes. And so with no one at
the school willing to engage, we're left, once again whispering
in a hallway. Okay, so she said that they are
(18:19):
there is tact the scenes should the first never have.
I mean, they're just completely I think, Okay, they.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Have interesting it's just.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Committee, situation committee. Yeah right, probably so I'm i gotta
be honest. I have no faith in these people. I
think the only way that this will change is when
they're shamed publicly. And I think that this podcast, with
the history of it, with the other schools that have
been able to make the change, with Cincinnati media killing
(18:56):
it at length, I think that it's going to be
it's going to just force their hand because they'll take this.
I mean, come on, I graduated twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
You have to keep stoking the fire, truly, like it
won't get done if you don't.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
And that was it. It was time to say goodbye,
time to head home. I just want to say bye
because I'm gonna I love you guys, Thank you for
her handing.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Kids and everything.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
We really appreciate you. Leslie, have a good rest of
your juneteen and stay free.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's all we can do here.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
It's true, it's all we could do here without a
mass movement, which seems unlikely given the current political landscape
and the real threat of violence from those who disagree.
We have to turn to the court of public opinion.
It's disheartening to think that when they say one voice
can make a difference, they didn't mean mine. And so
(19:58):
we wind up here in the tenth episode, having not
delivered on the change we were hoping to make. When
we embarked on the journey of making this podcast more
than a year ago, it's hard not to feel discouraged,
and so I wanted to talk with people who had
faced adversity and had come out the other side of
it to find out how they did it in order
to figure out how maybe I could do it too.
(20:19):
My first stop was someone who has seen a lot
more history than me to help get some perspective.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
It was not a happy experience for anybody involve, because
the government of Mississippi divided the court order to integrate,
and it created nearly a month back and forth at
the start of the semester in nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
This is Curtis Wilkie, legendary journalist who at eighty three
has spent more than sixty years writing about civil rights,
politics and the American South. If anyone has some perspective
on change, it's Curtis, who was there in nineteen sixty
two when federal marshalls marched on the University of Mississippi
to forcibly integrate the campus with the enrollment of a
(21:03):
single black student, James Meredith.
Speaker 7 (21:06):
Finally, on September the thirtieth, James Meridith was brought to
the campus and accompanied by several hundred federal marshals who
surrounded administration building and attract any regular of plitiction. And
(21:26):
so this is my own eyewitness account. But I went
over to see all the commotion, and it was out
of curiosity, and I think most of the students there
were just trying to figure out what's going on now.
In this latest chapter of Push and Shove.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Curtis, as I'm sure you figured out by the way
he pronounced shove, is born and raised in Mississippi.
Speaker 7 (21:49):
Around sundown, things began to turn a bit ugly. And
it had largely been a curious crowd, and there were
a handful of students who were heckling the marshalls, and
maybe they were throwing things at them. I didn't see that,
but all of a sudden, with no warning, the marshals
(22:11):
fired volleys of tear gas into the middle of all
of us. You know, a lot of others were doing
nothing other than just watching from.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
There campus evolved into a pitched battle. John F. Kennedy
called in thirty thousand federal troops. By the next morning,
two people were dead.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
James H.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Meredith is formally enrolled at the University of Mississippi, ending
one chapter in the federal government's efforts to desegregate the university.
The town of Oxford is an armed cannel following riots
that accompany the registration of the first Negro in the
university's one hundred.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And eighteen year history.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Very ugly incident, it tarnished the reputation of the school
for years.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Curtis Wilkie would go on to witness history and write
about it for decades, but as a student of the
University of Mississippi, Curtis was also a rebel.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
I like the term rebel. If you take the Confederacy
out of it, it's a great word. It means people
who are not necessarily going to be conventional. I used
to say in the sixties that we in old myths
may use the term rebels, but the real rebels of
(23:27):
my generation were the black students who were so deeply
involved in the movement. The students who started the sit
ins were from North Carolina, A and T in Fisk
University in Nashville and Jackson State here in Mississippi. They
were brave, they were corageous, and they were rebels. The
(23:51):
problem is, you know, the Confederacy kind of destroyed the word.
I don't use when I talk about, let's say, the
old Miss football team to day. I never refer to
the Miss Rebels, and I tried to avoid using it
as much as I can.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Curtis even has ideas about mascots.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
In terms of a mascot. Hell uh, you could have
somebody resembling Jay Givara and mascot to h to the rebels.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Which okay, yes, any school that wants to keep the
name Rebel and adopt a mascot that looks like Jay Guavera,
you have, Curtis and my blessing, and since you have
feelings about rebels, I had to ask what he thought
about the Biscuits my daughter and.
Speaker 7 (24:37):
Son in law. I have a dog named Biscuits.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He could be the mascot.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
It's big yellow, Aya, I'll be it like a good mascot.
But uh, you know, I'm not sure that would work.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
But U.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Certainly wouldn't be as controversial as rebels.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Okay, check one off in the Biscuit column for sure.
But what I really wanted to talk to Curtis about
wasn't mascots, but about how his decades writing about and
witnessing change had affected him.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
It's very gratifying to me to see what's happened in
my lifetime. You know, I grew up in segregated society.
You know, every classroom that I ever took a class
in was all white. Though James Merrit was in Old
miss My last semester. You know, I should mention, just
(25:41):
parenthetically and happily, James Meris, it's become a personal friend
of mine, and he and his wife, and so I
occasionally see them up here and I'm eighty three and
he's ninety, but we still know who each other are. Well,
things are infinitely are today than they were, but.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
He says recently things feel like they're moving backwards.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
Unfortunately, in the last i'd say ten years, maybe more.
My home state of Mississippi is backsliding. We have a
very conservative government. They're all acolytes of Donald Trump, and
they're doing what they can to I think some of
(26:29):
the policies are designed to dray blacks out of the state,
So that's disparting. But in the greater scheme of things
here take my lifetime on my guide, it's it's unimaginable
what life is even in Mississippi in terms of racial acceptance, tolerance, freedoms.
(26:55):
So the problem really is essentially the very conservative state
over month, but you get down local levels, there's very
little racial friction. People get along. There will always be problems,
but compared to what it was when I started to
school in nineteen forty, it's it's just it's amazing to
(27:19):
be so happy I've lived that long to seaboard I've scene.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
So as someone who has lived that long, what advice
does he have for me trying to push change through
in the South against headwinds and indifference, Keep the faith.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
And keep pushing for the change we need in Mississippi.
I've been able to see an imaginable progress, but there's
still things that need to be done.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Keep the faith, keep pushing. It's simple advice, but it's true.
Sports journalist Jamel Hill had similar advice for me when
we spoke for the episode about Shawn Alexander.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
The number one piece of advice is to keep going
and I know that seems like really simple and it's
just two words, but they're powerful words because a lot
of things don't happen because it was hard to muster
up the resolve to continue to do something that was
always going to be a fight.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Keep going. She's right, and then she said something that
floored me.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
We also want to think about these next generation of students,
like you were a student that had to live under
the guys at this awful racist nickname and mascot. Maybe
there is a student that will graduate twenty years from
now that will not be their reality.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
For me, for you listening, this feels like a fight
for now, but really it's a fight for the future,
for progress for some kid in Florence that's an elementary.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
School today, maybe thirty forty years from now, a student
will say what they really did?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Have a mascot like that? Who knows my dream? That's it, right,
that's the dream for change to happen in a way
that eventually it it's a surprise that it was ever
that way in the first place. For progress to happen
in a place that feels like it can't progress because
it's bound by the forces of tradition.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Tradition is dead people's baggage.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
That's Roy Wood Junior, quoting the comedian Doug Stanhope.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
This idea that we must do it like this because
this has always been done. Come on, y'all, this has
been done that. Don come on, It's like, no, you
can just say we don't want to do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Roy is hilarious. I mean, first off, he's one of
the best comedians working today. He's a longtime contributor to
The Daily Show and the hosts of the new CNN
comedy news show Have I Got News for You? But
he also thinks a lot about and was the host
of the NPR podcast The Road to Rickwood, about the
Negro leagues and the civil rights movement in Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Part of why I enjoyed reading autobiographies for the most part,
I don't read fiction. I'm mostly a self help and
an autobiography type of guy, and a lot of that
boils down to understanding that other people's experiences, none of
them were absent of struggle.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Roy's perspective is when I sought out for this episode,
because despite the fact that he can completely crack me
up every single time, he's also always thinking deeply about things,
especially when it comes to the South where he grew up.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think where you're from is a combination of first fight,
first kiss, where you graduated high school. Mm.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I like that that's where you're from. One thing I
really appreciate about Roy is he's always willing to say
it like it really and truly is.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You're talking about a part of the country where if
you're taking this position, that's not the popular position to have,
so you're dealing with a lot more shit. So you
almost have to open your network up to other people
and other things and people and other places to just
(31:06):
talk like And I know it sounds cliche, but literally
just having a conversation with other people it can grow
things leaps and bounds in terms of your spirit and
fighting for the right thing is hard, and I think
it's almost impossible to not let things affect you emotionally. Yeah,
you know, I think it's next to impossible. So you
(31:29):
have to be able to protect yourself and look out
for yourself a little bit, and the best way to
do that is just finding other people that are dealing
with the shit.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
You know, talking to Roy, he can pivot from serious
to hilarious before you know it. But that's doubly true
when he's sharing his let's call it interesting solution to
the mascot problem when you.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Look at the Florida State seminoles, right, the seminoles operate
under a different situation because they've made good good with
the Seminole tribe and whatever agreement they've set up with
the Seminole tribe, it's like, you know what, ween't tripping
on this shit like all them mother mascots with the Indians.
Do what you do, big dog, go Florida State. Matter
(32:15):
of fact, tomahawk Chop, put a white dude in face paint,
let him stab a flame and spirit fifty yard line cool.
Why can't racists make the same arrangement with the school
because here's it just followed me for a second, because
I know I'm losing you. Money is what dictates change.
(32:39):
If there was a way to create a confederate group,
I don't know, like some men who used to be
related to Confederate sons of a confederacy, if you will,
and then you go to the school and you go, yeah,
that's our tribe, give us money, and then immediately the
(33:00):
school system would go fuck that and fuck that lawsuit.
We're gonna be the Biscuits exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Okay, maybe not all of Roy's advice is all that
solid now that I'm looking back on it, but it's
at least a creative solution to the problem. But Roy's right,
I mean, not about founding a fake Confederate organization, but
about finding other people who have been fighting against the
odds to find out how they made it through. And
so there was one more person I knew I needed
to talk to. We'll be right back.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
I feel like, from the outside looking in, when you
see ex post facto tellings of these kinds of stories
where someone faces a lot of stonewalling and obstacles and
then elicits some kind of a productive outcome, it looks
like cinematic portrayals of heroism. There's a lot of like, yes, well,
(33:54):
I'm not gonna let that happen, and I'm gonna, you know,
stand on principle. And it's not that those factors are
absent in my logic anyway, in my experience of those
kinds of moments of adversity, But it doesn't feel that explicit.
It certainly doesn't feel that glamorous and a much more
(34:17):
emotionally present. Component of it for me anyway, is just
getting through to the other side and surviving.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
This is Ronan Pharaoh. I probably don't need to introduce him,
but in case you don't know, he's the journalist in
twenty seventeen who broke the story that Hollywood mogul Harvey
Weinstein had raped and sexually abused dozens of women. It
was a piece of reporting that cost him his job
at NBC, who capitulated to Weinstein's threats and forced him
to flee his home for a period. Ronan is also
(34:48):
someone I'm lucky enough to consider a friend.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
By the time that going got really rough, I had
essentially lost my job, alienated all of these executives at
the company that I thought I had a future in.
I was getting all kinds of threats, both legal and physical.
I had to leave my home. I was in this
very precarious, tenuous position where I was trying to do
this really tough reporting, first kind of completely in the
(35:12):
wilderness by myself and paying for camera crews out of pocket,
and then at the New Yorker, where I didn't have
relationships or a foothold, and thank god, they were real
good guys in a very classic sense, and they stood
by it. Yeah, but it felt very frightening, and the
stakes were very all or nothing, and I pushed it
(35:34):
to a point where there was really no return.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I wanted to talk to Ronan because I think he
might have some thoughts on how I feel right now,
which is, let's be honest, frustrated and wondering how I
can keep things moving forward when every wall I run
up against is labeled tradition.
Speaker 8 (35:50):
It's a strain of discourse that I'll always struggle to
understand or genuinely relate to emotional when people are so
so wedded to tradition, even when it's hurting people in
the present day, and there seems to be very little
(36:11):
downside except in the form of abstraction. I mean, obviously,
you know this is not a conversation which you're proposing
burning the history books and like maybe it's all for yeah,
no one, and no one's gonna forget about like.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Yeah, exactly, he still does a Confederate flag at your house,
like we remember, right, And then there's.
Speaker 8 (36:27):
That, right, There's like plenty ways these communities are keeping
traditions alive. It it therefore, it is a conversation in
which I, you know, strive for empathy and understanding of
what is making people tick, but struggle with it because
it just seems like the cost benefit analysis is so clear,
(36:47):
Like why wouldn't you just lighten the load of suffering
in that small way for present day black students? And
I think you know, breaking through that requires people with courage,
And I'm really glad that you took up the mantle
of that.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Which I have to be honest and say that having
run and tell me that was definitely a boost I needed.
But more than that, I wanted to know how he
kept going, how he kept pushing, how he stayed motivated.
And his answer was actually quite simple. He wants to
be a good person.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
There's power in the moral stories we grow up with,
right and the idea of heroism and villainy and kindness
versus anger hate. And I think that while you want
to be clear minded and rational, and I'm not so
much of firebrand, I think I have a ethical code,
(37:43):
but I don't really have an activist sensibility in a
lot of meaningful senses. I'm reporter who wants to unearth
the facts, and I'm making cost benefit analysis type decisions
in a really pragmatic way. But there is also a
strong element of my decision making that is about wanting
to craft a life over time where I am a
(38:06):
good person in my own eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 8 (38:10):
I'm not saying I always succeed, but I think it's
that sort of almost delusion of grandeur, of like, oh,
I want to be a good person, and when life
tests me, I want to be someone who helps other people,
even at my own expense. Embracing those tropes and wanting
to live up to them, I think is a good thing,
(38:31):
even when there is some delusion in it, Like I think,
allow yourself to indulge in the fantasy of being heroic
when the going gets tough.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Indulge in the fantasy of being heroic when the going
gets tough. I've been thinking a lot about that as
we've wrapped work on this series, about the folks that
we've talked to along the way who didn't just indulge
in the fantasy, but who were heroes. People like Bobby
Thomas and Kalais Campbell at Denver Seth, people like Annie Wilson,
who spent twenty years trying to get her team name
(39:04):
changed before it finally did. Or the historians we've talked
to who aren't afraid to tell the real histories of
their towns and of this country, even when it's ugly,
Or the everyday people we've met in Florence who aren't
too afraid to say that something is wrong when it's wrong,
even in the face of the backlash of those that
cling to tradition. Because at the end of this after
(39:25):
a year of research, of learning, of conversations, of coalition building,
and most importantly of trying, really trying to make change
happen in Florence, Kentucky, my hometown, I think it really
comes down to the push and pull of tradition versus progress,
about the clash between moving forward and turning back. And
when I look up from my notes, when I look
(39:46):
up from the microphone, when I look beyond the athletic
fields of Florence in the banks of the Ohio River,
I see that clash everywhere. I think you do too.
It feels in a lot of ways like the defining
struggle of our time to move forward in the face
of the massive resistance to change. When we lined up
to vote in twenty sixteen, in twenty twenty and just
(40:09):
last week. That is ultimately what we're choosing between. There
are a million skirmishes in this battle. In mine is
getting the Boone County Rebel to become the Boone County
Biscuits or whatever. Really, listener, I think biscuits are delicious.
But if these kids want to be the Rangers, the
Mammoths or the mal Rats or the Tigers, or literally
(40:30):
anything else but a name that glorifies the Confederacy, then
more power to them. The point is that change is good,
That moving forward is good. That looking around and seeing
that your community has transformed dramatically since the nineteen fifties,
seeing that the world has changed since then, and embracing
that transformation. That's what this is all about. And so
(40:51):
let's all indulge in the fantasy of being heroic together first,
and ask of you send words of encouragement to those
that are in positions of power in Boone County. Don't
be mean, don't be combative. We've made all the arguments
that need to be made here on this podcast, So
encourage them to be heroic, to make change, not because
(41:14):
it's easy, but because it is right.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
We've heard rumors that this change might be coming soon.
We've tried to chase them down to confirm if it's
really happening, and we've once again hit dead ends. But
I have to believe it, and your encouragement might just
make it happen. But also I'm not done yet. This
podcast is not over. We've been given a little more
time in a few more episodes to continue to pursue
(41:39):
this change wherever it takes us. We're going to go
away for a little bit to do some reporting and
to do the work and also honestly catch our breath.
But you'll hear from us soon and hopefully it's with
good news. Until then, I'm Akuila Hughes, and this has
been Rebel Spirit. Spirit is a production of Ninth Planet
(42:01):
Audio in association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by
me Akuila Hughes. I'm also an executive producer and the host.
Produced by Dan Sinker, edited by Josie A.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Son,
Sound design and mixing by Josie A.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator is Anna
Sun and Chine Production accounting by Dill Pretzing, additional research
support from Janis Dillard. Special thanks to Jay Becker and
the whole team at BLDG the Florence y'alls, Amber Hoffmann,
and Leslie Chambers. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio are
Elizabeth Baklett and Jimmy Miller
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Ninth Planet audio con we're overlanding.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I don't know if you're busy, but we're basically trying
to get them to change the mascot and in trouble.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I don't know if you got a flyer.
Speaker 5 (00:22):
I did.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Oh, well, here you go.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We're we're gonna be at Boom County tonight trying to
convince them to change the mascot.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Finally, you know, we're just trying to kick a little horn,
says or at least post it. Send it to your friend,
anybody you know who's around. That'd be great.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
The news is coming and we're in town going to
the site thing or the school bay. Yeah, and you know,
student teams and they didn't call off, so it's time.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
To remind them who.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Sorry, that last episode was a bummer, but surely you
didn't think that was enough to keep me down. I
ask again, have you met me? Well, only one episode
is transpired between the last time you heard from me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
The actual timeline is that it's been six months since
we were last in Florence, six months since we were
blown off by the school board and the school based
Decision Making Council and I'd like to report here on
our last episode that in that time there's been a
lot of headway made, but the reality is that we're
both exactly where we were six months ago and light
years ahead. We've been keeping busy with interviews, with fact finding,
(01:24):
and with outreach, exactly the stuff you've been listening to
in the last few episodes, and maybe hopefully the board
has been busy too with the committee Principal Black claimed
had been formed. But listener, there's no actual evidence as
of yet, no announcements, no surveys, nothing we could point
a finger at and say yes, progress. And so it
(01:46):
was time to visit Florence again, to speak and to
build a movement. And when I saw that the June
School based Decision Making Council meeting for Boone County High
School was falling on Juneteenth, well I knew there was
only one place to start. Florence, Kentucky second Annual Juneteenth Celebration.
Hearda you were reached out to by Miss Juneteenth yesterday.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
How did it go? What did she What does she
have to say?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
I guess she is like she's aware of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, she's aware of her thought process. What I do
can you be a dance judge. Oh yeah, you gotta
go do that. You gotta go do a job well.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Juneteenth has been celebrated for over one hundred and fifty years.
It has only been a federal holiday for four In
case it's new to you for some reason, Juneteenth commemorates
on June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, when enslaved people in
Texas learned that they had been freed fully two years earlier,
when the Emancipation Proclamation made slavery illegal. It's a bittersweet
(02:43):
holiday that reminds us all of Maya Angelou's famous quote,
none of us can be free until everybody is free.
I personally didn't learn about Juneteenth as a holiday until college,
in keeping with the holiday's tradition of being the last
to know, though it seems that truly the last to
know were the administrators at Boone County High School, who
scheduled a meeting on this national holiday, and so we
(03:05):
thought we'd bring the message to them. Do you know
anybody who's around Boone County tonight at six o'clock, the
news will be the for putting them on notice.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Get free.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I went to Boone County. We're really, what year seventy six? Okay,
how were the Confederate flags?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Then?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Oh they were Confederate, they were doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's also wild that like the governor's declared a holiday,
we have a national holiday, and they.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Didn't move the meeting, right, doesn't look good for them.
It's like, oh, well for our Yeah, the narrative actually.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Seems to be pretty honest and pretty honest. They seem
committed to the confederacy bit. So we'll see, we'll see
if we can fix it. The juneteen celebration wasn't held
in downtown Florence, but instead up a winding road at
a nature center in town. There were a couple of
times that we were sure we'd taken a wrong turn,
but eventually we found it. There were tents selling homemade
(03:56):
products and food, a snow cone truck, info boots for
per regressive causes, and also the police. Music was playing.
Kids were everywhere, and while it wasn't exactly comfortable, extreme
heat and humidity pegged the temperature over one hundred degrees.
It was joyous. We arrived armed with smiles and a
pile of flyers encouraging people to join us at the
(04:16):
school based decision making council meeting that night, I planned
to speak again, even after my last demoralizing attempt. I figured,
with a bigger crowd, some local news, and the spirit
of Juneteenth on my side, maybe this time would be different.
It's a million degrees, it's the middle of summer, thankfully
no cicadas, and I'm honestly just hoping we can get like,
we can talk to some cool people, get a sense
(04:39):
of how much people really care about this, and maybe
get a snow cone.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
The meeting. Yeah, we have a flyer for you all.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
My favorite progressives in the area were there, Amber Hoffman,
our local activist mom, Leslie Chambers, city council member and
parent one of my least favorite people were there, namely
that black district parent that told me that I was
wrong off the record in episode one. But other than that,
it was wonderful meeting the kind of people who wanted
to celebrate Juneteenth in my small town. Yeah, we are
(05:12):
here trying to change the mascot of Boone County.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yes, you know, Yeah, it was where I'm from.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It was the West Hopkins Rebels.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, wait where in Kentucky. It was Nebo Kentucky. You
know that little small did they change there? So they
changed theirs, but Boone County, it was it was not
an easy thing. Yeah, they thought.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
There's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, I'm trying to diplomatic.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
There's a lot of push back.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A lot of people were committed to the cause on
both sides.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But ultimately it seems like justice one did there the
storms getting you there. What do you feel like has
been your biggest opposition?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Oh wow, you know, objectively, I think the school I
think there's a lot of bureaucracy, and you know, though
it's something that's been brought up for years, they're just
very much like, well, we have to set a process,
to set a process and have a meeting, and I'm like,
it's been it's actually not that hard. And we've spoken
to principals who've made the change at their school like nationwide,
and you.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Know, we have this blueprint. We keep offering it to them.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
They're just not a local school decision or is it
a school board decision.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Well, it's kind of both.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
The school board has tried to skirt it, but we
talked to the state and the State's like, that's absolutely
in the.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
School board's purview. So we're kind of in like a.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Unique space because it seems like they're just pushing us
back and forth, like talk to the board, talk to
the school.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Talk to the school, talk to the board. So we're
gonna talk to both.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And so here we are back in Florence one last
time on Juneteenth to make what the late Great John
Lewis called good trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I was a lady rebel, like, what does that even need?
Speaker 7 (06:49):
The Boone County Rebels will stay.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The Boone County Rebels with the image of.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right here in black and white and friends.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
In my end bigger than a flag or mascot. Anytime
you're trying to mess with tradition, you had.
Speaker 8 (07:01):
To be ready for a serious backlash.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
From Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akuila Hughes and this is
Rebel Spirit Episode ten. Stay Free. The Juneteenth Festival was fascinating.
It was small, mostly people who knew each other from
sharing a common cause on issues like SB one fifty,
the transgender student bill that passed when we first arrived.
(07:33):
It was good talking to some new people, especially the
black people of Florence, about what we've been trying to do. No,
they got rid of the flag, but they a gard
of the Mass, but the team is still the Rebels,
still named for the Confederacy, still celebrating all that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So if you want to come, or if you know anybody.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Who's ready tonight, six o'clock just down the street, just
show up. I mean, if you want to, if you
feel compelled to speak, it would be helpful. But honestly,
just having people to you know, show the school like
we care about this. We're black, we live here, like
just it's Juneteenth, Like, first of all, you shouldn't be
having this meeting, but secondly.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Like why are you here?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Right, it's a holiday, but also like it is very
strange that, like, you know, for celebrating freedom, let's get free.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You guys lost the war. Listen, I had a telem exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, it's one hundred and fifty nine years later, But
happy junetee, you're free.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
That's basically what we're here to tell them. So do
you listen to podcasts? Do well?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
You could check it out. The trailer came out yesterday.
It's making some waves around here. If you just type
in Rebel Spirits to come up. It's a picture of
a biscuit with googly eyes on top of showing up
for this meeting ready to speak. We also released the
trailer for the podcast before we arrived. We were hoping
they'd see it for what it was. That people are
now going to start looking at the school. I mean,
(08:53):
now is a great time to do something in The
Cincinnati Inquirer publish an article about the podcast, giving us
a glimpse of the reactions to expect, both for the
podcast to release and the ensuing discourse. I think, unsurprisingly,
there are a lot of very loud people who are
in support of the mascot, who are saying it's based
(09:14):
on rebel without a cause and she's just the real racist,
and you know she wants to change history, and you
know it's funny, Like I really didn't think of it
still upset me so much, but it actually really does.
Like these are people who have their face and name
(09:35):
next to Like it's not like Twitter right where they
are anonymous and you can just be like these are trolls.
It's like these are people with first name, last name,
photos of them and their family, some of them identifying
themselves as teachers at Boone County being like the students
don't care about this, don't You're just making a controversy
where there isn't one, and you know, rehashing lives they
were told. And I just feel like it's especially hurtful
(09:58):
when it's people like that, because it's like, you're an educator,
you should care about what's true. You should also like
maybe question if your students feel comfortable speaking to you
about like what they care about, because I'm like, I'm
sure you didn't ask, so how would you even know?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
But it's just been like ough.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
This morning, I woke up to like a friend of
mine sharing her comment on it on Instagram and just
being like, there's a.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Lot of racists in these comments.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
We knew we were going to get into it when
the trailer dropped. We are here for a healthy discussion
since both facts and logic are on our side, but
one of the comments cut deep. Never heard Sean Alexander
complain about it, or principal George Floyd who played in
the NFO.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But this chick, she's upset with it.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
We have racist people hiding behind black faces to be like, yeah,
well they said it's fine, so you know they're black feelings,
strump yours.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's like you don't even know them, you don't even know.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
That not every comment was in support of the Confederacy,
though Sin said something that I really appreciated. I'll just
read their common in full. They said, anyone trying to
defend this mascot has got to be the saddest person
in the Tri state area. If you're clinging on to
high school nostalgia over a dumb racist caricature in its
remaining remnants, push on, clearly, your life is fine if
(11:17):
that's your biggest concern here. Boone County has huge forests
and parks. Be the Rangers of the Grizzlies or something
simple like the Stallions or whatever. And twelve people liked
it so much, Right, Boone County Rangers. That's cute. And
so this was it. We'd gotten our snow cones, we
handed out flyers, we'd released a trailer, and already had
(11:40):
a glimpse of the controversy we'd be causing. Soon there
was only one thing left to do, to return once
again to Boone County High School to speak. Despite six
months of effort, I still felt uncertain about what more
I could say beyond expressing my disappointment. Facts hadn't changed
their minds, resources hadn't made a difference, and even my
(12:03):
consistent presence hadn't been enough to convince them that public
action was necessary. The only message I could bring was
that soon it wouldn't be just me to answer slash
not answer to. They'd have to face the growing scrutiny
of the public and the press. My final presentation to
the school when we come back. When I made my
appeal to the school based decision making counsel in December,
(12:26):
I spoke for two rousing minutes. The minutes of that
meeting are brief and clinical. Akila Hughes voiced her concern
regarding the absence of a BHS mascot. Miss Hughes stated
in twenty seventeen, the mascot was removed and needs to
be replaced by a mascot that would be non shaming
and would serve our diverse student body. Miss Hughes offered
her resources.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Unquote.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
This mirrors the minutes from July twenty twenty when Spencer
presented his petition to quote, disuse the rebel name and
find a new mascot. Unquote. There's a famous saying that
doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results is the definition of madness. So this time we're
going to take a different approach. This time I was
putting them unnoticed. Great, I'm going to stand all right,
(13:11):
let me know when I are you ready. Hi, I'm
Akhela Hughes. I'm a BCCHS alum from the class of
two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Happy June teenth.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
By the way, it's one hundred and fifty nine years late,
but I'm happy to share the good news with you.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
The war is over, the rebels lost.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Black people are now equal, and you can do away
with your team name and move into the future.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And what better time.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Next year is the seventieth anniversary of Boone County High School.
It's also the seventieth anniversary of Brown Versus Board of Education,
which integrated American public schools. It's certainly not too soon
to try to create an inclusive environment at BCCHS. Over
the past year, I've tried desperately to work with you
to make the transition away from the rebels with input
(13:54):
from the student and parent community. I was here in
September homecoming week to speak with you, but you push
off to the board. I came back and spoke to
this very council in December with resources to share. You
told us you needed to form a committee to form
a process, more bureaucracy. I'm here looking for some progress now.
I mean as educators, you're familiar with check ins and benchmarks,
(14:16):
so you've had six months. Where are we on this?
This is a crisis in leadership. We spoke with the
principle of Denver South in Colorado, who was instrumental in
changing their mascot from the Rebels to the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
He said that as a.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Leader, you have to choose which hill you want to
die on and guess what. They changed the mascot and
everyone loves it. The school community is more engaged than ever.
There's another Colorado high school that hasn't changed from the
rebels yet though Columbine. Maybe you've heard of it. The
values you spout need to need action to support them.
We've been nice, available, agreeable, and invested. So on September third,
(14:54):
the Rebel Spirit podcast will be released to the world
and they will see exactly what we've been up against
in trying to bring progress opportunity to you. You still
have time to be on the right side of this,
but you're going to have to actually do something. We
aren't going anywhere. This issue isn't going anywhere. See you
in September, and then Amber Hoffman, who is one of
(15:15):
our first allies on the ground in Florence as well.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Obviously I'm here in support of Aciullite, whos and what
she's doing. But I live in Boone County. I grew
up in Boone County. I currently raise two children in
Boone County, and I understand that you guys are trying
to move forward. I've seen the progress that you've tried
to make with you getting rid of the mascot, trying
to change the name. I see the inclusivity stickers all
(15:40):
over every door in this room. I was a district ambassador,
so I've been in and out of this building several
times for that as well. I sit on the s
BDM at Camp Bern's Middle School right now, so I
understand the awesome responsibility that you guys have and what
you're doing. But I also want to share something with
you from the perspective of not just a parent, as
a Boom County resident community member. There's two things you
(16:04):
should know. The first one is that the state of
Kentucky takes in the fourth highest level of immigrants in
the country where there are only three other states that
take more immigrants than we do, and that's Texas, New York,
and California. Okay, so we have a growing and diverse population, and.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know it.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
We are getting those students in every day. I know
that one of our middle schools got over thirty students
from Guatemala in like a one month period of time.
So this is our opportunity to show those families that
we care about people of color and what matters to them.
She is an alumni, she has been here before.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know her, But.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
I'm also going to live here and I'm going to
be here, and when she's not here, we will be
back on her behalf. Because this is important to me,
it should be very important to you as well. And
I know that you guys care about the kids. I've
worked with educators and individuals that take the time to
do this kind of work, and I know that you're
here because you care about the students. This is an
(17:04):
opportunity to give students of color the chance to understand
that not only do you care about them, that this
may not be an issue that's touching them currently, but
you understand in the long run it will in high school,
she may not have cared necessarily that her rebel mascot
was a former Confederate soldier, but now as an adult,
she can look back and be ashamed of that. And
(17:27):
you have the opportunity to change that for the students
that are currently going to school here. So I encourage
you to do that, and again we will be back.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Short of just playing every episode of Rebel Spirit for
these decision makers in some kind of hostage takeover situation,
I can't think of how to state our cause and
reasoning more plainly. But I remember, especially after speaking with
Ronda Lavaldo in episode five about changing the names of
Native American branded sports teams, that there's only so much
explaining you can do before you realize it's not about
(17:57):
making it clearer, it's about whether they're are ready to
listen to actually hear it. And sometimes no matter how
plain you make it, you don't see the light turn
on behind their eyes. And so with no one at
the school willing to engage, we're left, once again whispering
in a hallway. Okay, so she said that they are
(18:19):
there is tact the scenes should the first never have.
I mean, they're just completely I think, Okay, they.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Have interesting it's just.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Committee, situation committee. Yeah right, probably so I'm i gotta
be honest. I have no faith in these people. I
think the only way that this will change is when
they're shamed publicly. And I think that this podcast, with
the history of it, with the other schools that have
been able to make the change, with Cincinnati media killing
(18:56):
it at length, I think that it's going to be
it's going to just force their hand because they'll take this.
I mean, come on, I graduated twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
You have to keep stoking the fire, truly, like it
won't get done if you don't.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
And that was it. It was time to say goodbye,
time to head home. I just want to say bye
because I'm gonna I love you guys, Thank you for
her handing.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Kids and everything.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
We really appreciate you. Leslie, have a good rest of
your juneteen and stay free.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's all we can do here.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
It's true, it's all we could do here without a
mass movement, which seems unlikely given the current political landscape
and the real threat of violence from those who disagree.
We have to turn to the court of public opinion.
It's disheartening to think that when they say one voice
can make a difference, they didn't mean mine. And so
(19:58):
we wind up here in the tenth episode, having not
delivered on the change we were hoping to make. When
we embarked on the journey of making this podcast more
than a year ago, it's hard not to feel discouraged,
and so I wanted to talk with people who had
faced adversity and had come out the other side of
it to find out how they did it in order
to figure out how maybe I could do it too.
(20:19):
My first stop was someone who has seen a lot
more history than me to help get some perspective.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
It was not a happy experience for anybody involve, because
the government of Mississippi divided the court order to integrate,
and it created nearly a month back and forth at
the start of the semester in nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
This is Curtis Wilkie, legendary journalist who at eighty three
has spent more than sixty years writing about civil rights,
politics and the American South. If anyone has some perspective
on change, it's Curtis, who was there in nineteen sixty
two when federal marshalls marched on the University of Mississippi
to forcibly integrate the campus with the enrollment of a
(21:03):
single black student, James Meredith.
Speaker 7 (21:06):
Finally, on September the thirtieth, James Meridith was brought to
the campus and accompanied by several hundred federal marshals who
surrounded administration building and attract any regular of plitiction. And
(21:26):
so this is my own eyewitness account. But I went
over to see all the commotion, and it was out
of curiosity, and I think most of the students there
were just trying to figure out what's going on now.
In this latest chapter of Push and Shove.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Curtis, as I'm sure you figured out by the way
he pronounced shove, is born and raised in Mississippi.
Speaker 7 (21:49):
Around sundown, things began to turn a bit ugly. And
it had largely been a curious crowd, and there were
a handful of students who were heckling the marshalls, and
maybe they were throwing things at them. I didn't see that,
but all of a sudden, with no warning, the marshals
(22:11):
fired volleys of tear gas into the middle of all
of us. You know, a lot of others were doing
nothing other than just watching from.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
There campus evolved into a pitched battle. John F. Kennedy
called in thirty thousand federal troops. By the next morning,
two people were dead.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
James H.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Meredith is formally enrolled at the University of Mississippi, ending
one chapter in the federal government's efforts to desegregate the university.
The town of Oxford is an armed cannel following riots
that accompany the registration of the first Negro in the
university's one hundred.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And eighteen year history.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Very ugly incident, it tarnished the reputation of the school
for years.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Curtis Wilkie would go on to witness history and write
about it for decades, but as a student of the
University of Mississippi, Curtis was also a rebel.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
I like the term rebel. If you take the Confederacy
out of it, it's a great word. It means people
who are not necessarily going to be conventional. I used
to say in the sixties that we in old myths
may use the term rebels, but the real rebels of
(23:27):
my generation were the black students who were so deeply
involved in the movement. The students who started the sit
ins were from North Carolina, A and T in Fisk
University in Nashville and Jackson State here in Mississippi. They
were brave, they were corageous, and they were rebels. The
(23:51):
problem is, you know, the Confederacy kind of destroyed the word.
I don't use when I talk about, let's say, the
old Miss football team to day. I never refer to
the Miss Rebels, and I tried to avoid using it
as much as I can.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Curtis even has ideas about mascots.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
In terms of a mascot. Hell uh, you could have
somebody resembling Jay Givara and mascot to h to the rebels.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Which okay, yes, any school that wants to keep the
name Rebel and adopt a mascot that looks like Jay Guavera,
you have, Curtis and my blessing, and since you have
feelings about rebels, I had to ask what he thought
about the Biscuits my daughter and.
Speaker 7 (24:37):
Son in law. I have a dog named Biscuits.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He could be the mascot.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
It's big yellow, Aya, I'll be it like a good mascot.
But uh, you know, I'm not sure that would work.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
But U.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Certainly wouldn't be as controversial as rebels.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Okay, check one off in the Biscuit column for sure.
But what I really wanted to talk to Curtis about
wasn't mascots, but about how his decades writing about and
witnessing change had affected him.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
It's very gratifying to me to see what's happened in
my lifetime. You know, I grew up in segregated society.
You know, every classroom that I ever took a class
in was all white. Though James Merrit was in Old
miss My last semester. You know, I should mention, just
(25:41):
parenthetically and happily, James Meris, it's become a personal friend
of mine, and he and his wife, and so I
occasionally see them up here and I'm eighty three and
he's ninety, but we still know who each other are. Well,
things are infinitely are today than they were, but.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
He says recently things feel like they're moving backwards.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
Unfortunately, in the last i'd say ten years, maybe more.
My home state of Mississippi is backsliding. We have a
very conservative government. They're all acolytes of Donald Trump, and
they're doing what they can to I think some of
(26:29):
the policies are designed to dray blacks out of the state,
So that's disparting. But in the greater scheme of things
here take my lifetime on my guide, it's it's unimaginable
what life is even in Mississippi in terms of racial acceptance, tolerance, freedoms.
(26:55):
So the problem really is essentially the very conservative state
over month, but you get down local levels, there's very
little racial friction. People get along. There will always be problems,
but compared to what it was when I started to
school in nineteen forty, it's it's just it's amazing to
(27:19):
be so happy I've lived that long to seaboard I've scene.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
So as someone who has lived that long, what advice
does he have for me trying to push change through
in the South against headwinds and indifference, Keep the faith.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
And keep pushing for the change we need in Mississippi.
I've been able to see an imaginable progress, but there's
still things that need to be done.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Keep the faith, keep pushing. It's simple advice, but it's true.
Sports journalist Jamel Hill had similar advice for me when
we spoke for the episode about Shawn Alexander.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
The number one piece of advice is to keep going
and I know that seems like really simple and it's
just two words, but they're powerful words because a lot
of things don't happen because it was hard to muster
up the resolve to continue to do something that was
always going to be a fight.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Keep going. She's right, and then she said something that
floored me.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
We also want to think about these next generation of students,
like you were a student that had to live under
the guys at this awful racist nickname and mascot. Maybe
there is a student that will graduate twenty years from
now that will not be their reality.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
For me, for you listening, this feels like a fight
for now, but really it's a fight for the future,
for progress for some kid in Florence that's an elementary.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
School today, maybe thirty forty years from now, a student
will say what they really did?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Have a mascot like that? Who knows my dream? That's it, right,
that's the dream for change to happen in a way
that eventually it it's a surprise that it was ever
that way in the first place. For progress to happen
in a place that feels like it can't progress because
it's bound by the forces of tradition.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Tradition is dead people's baggage.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
That's Roy Wood Junior, quoting the comedian Doug Stanhope.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
This idea that we must do it like this because
this has always been done. Come on, y'all, this has
been done that. Don come on, It's like, no, you
can just say we don't want to do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Roy is hilarious. I mean, first off, he's one of
the best comedians working today. He's a longtime contributor to
The Daily Show and the hosts of the new CNN
comedy news show Have I Got News for You? But
he also thinks a lot about and was the host
of the NPR podcast The Road to Rickwood, about the
Negro leagues and the civil rights movement in Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Part of why I enjoyed reading autobiographies for the most part,
I don't read fiction. I'm mostly a self help and
an autobiography type of guy, and a lot of that
boils down to understanding that other people's experiences, none of
them were absent of struggle.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Roy's perspective is when I sought out for this episode,
because despite the fact that he can completely crack me
up every single time, he's also always thinking deeply about things,
especially when it comes to the South where he grew up.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think where you're from is a combination of first fight,
first kiss, where you graduated high school. Mm.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I like that that's where you're from. One thing I
really appreciate about Roy is he's always willing to say
it like it really and truly is.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You're talking about a part of the country where if
you're taking this position, that's not the popular position to have,
so you're dealing with a lot more shit. So you
almost have to open your network up to other people
and other things and people and other places to just
(31:06):
talk like And I know it sounds cliche, but literally
just having a conversation with other people it can grow
things leaps and bounds in terms of your spirit and
fighting for the right thing is hard, and I think
it's almost impossible to not let things affect you emotionally. Yeah,
you know, I think it's next to impossible. So you
(31:29):
have to be able to protect yourself and look out
for yourself a little bit, and the best way to
do that is just finding other people that are dealing
with the shit.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
You know, talking to Roy, he can pivot from serious
to hilarious before you know it. But that's doubly true
when he's sharing his let's call it interesting solution to
the mascot problem when you.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Look at the Florida State seminoles, right, the seminoles operate
under a different situation because they've made good good with
the Seminole tribe and whatever agreement they've set up with
the Seminole tribe, it's like, you know what, ween't tripping
on this shit like all them mother mascots with the Indians.
Do what you do, big dog, go Florida State. Matter
(32:15):
of fact, tomahawk Chop, put a white dude in face paint,
let him stab a flame and spirit fifty yard line cool.
Why can't racists make the same arrangement with the school
because here's it just followed me for a second, because
I know I'm losing you. Money is what dictates change.
(32:39):
If there was a way to create a confederate group,
I don't know, like some men who used to be
related to Confederate sons of a confederacy, if you will,
and then you go to the school and you go, yeah,
that's our tribe, give us money, and then immediately the
(33:00):
school system would go fuck that and fuck that lawsuit.
We're gonna be the Biscuits exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Okay, maybe not all of Roy's advice is all that
solid now that I'm looking back on it, but it's
at least a creative solution to the problem. But Roy's right,
I mean, not about founding a fake Confederate organization, but
about finding other people who have been fighting against the
odds to find out how they made it through. And
so there was one more person I knew I needed
to talk to. We'll be right back.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
I feel like, from the outside looking in, when you
see ex post facto tellings of these kinds of stories
where someone faces a lot of stonewalling and obstacles and
then elicits some kind of a productive outcome, it looks
like cinematic portrayals of heroism. There's a lot of like, yes, well,
(33:54):
I'm not gonna let that happen, and I'm gonna, you know,
stand on principle. And it's not that those factors are
absent in my logic anyway, in my experience of those
kinds of moments of adversity, But it doesn't feel that explicit.
It certainly doesn't feel that glamorous and a much more
(34:17):
emotionally present. Component of it for me anyway, is just
getting through to the other side and surviving.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
This is Ronan Pharaoh. I probably don't need to introduce him,
but in case you don't know, he's the journalist in
twenty seventeen who broke the story that Hollywood mogul Harvey
Weinstein had raped and sexually abused dozens of women. It
was a piece of reporting that cost him his job
at NBC, who capitulated to Weinstein's threats and forced him
to flee his home for a period. Ronan is also
(34:48):
someone I'm lucky enough to consider a friend.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
By the time that going got really rough, I had
essentially lost my job, alienated all of these executives at
the company that I thought I had a future in.
I was getting all kinds of threats, both legal and physical.
I had to leave my home. I was in this
very precarious, tenuous position where I was trying to do
this really tough reporting, first kind of completely in the
(35:12):
wilderness by myself and paying for camera crews out of pocket,
and then at the New Yorker, where I didn't have
relationships or a foothold, and thank god, they were real
good guys in a very classic sense, and they stood
by it. Yeah, but it felt very frightening, and the
stakes were very all or nothing, and I pushed it
(35:34):
to a point where there was really no return.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I wanted to talk to Ronan because I think he
might have some thoughts on how I feel right now,
which is, let's be honest, frustrated and wondering how I
can keep things moving forward when every wall I run
up against is labeled tradition.
Speaker 8 (35:50):
It's a strain of discourse that I'll always struggle to
understand or genuinely relate to emotional when people are so
so wedded to tradition, even when it's hurting people in
the present day, and there seems to be very little
(36:11):
downside except in the form of abstraction. I mean, obviously,
you know this is not a conversation which you're proposing
burning the history books and like maybe it's all for yeah,
no one, and no one's gonna forget about like.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Yeah, exactly, he still does a Confederate flag at your house,
like we remember, right, And then there's.
Speaker 8 (36:27):
That, right, There's like plenty ways these communities are keeping
traditions alive. It it therefore, it is a conversation in
which I, you know, strive for empathy and understanding of
what is making people tick, but struggle with it because
it just seems like the cost benefit analysis is so clear,
(36:47):
Like why wouldn't you just lighten the load of suffering
in that small way for present day black students? And
I think you know, breaking through that requires people with courage,
And I'm really glad that you took up the mantle
of that.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Which I have to be honest and say that having
run and tell me that was definitely a boost I needed.
But more than that, I wanted to know how he
kept going, how he kept pushing, how he stayed motivated.
And his answer was actually quite simple. He wants to
be a good person.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
There's power in the moral stories we grow up with,
right and the idea of heroism and villainy and kindness
versus anger hate. And I think that while you want
to be clear minded and rational, and I'm not so
much of firebrand, I think I have a ethical code,
(37:43):
but I don't really have an activist sensibility in a
lot of meaningful senses. I'm reporter who wants to unearth
the facts, and I'm making cost benefit analysis type decisions
in a really pragmatic way. But there is also a
strong element of my decision making that is about wanting
to craft a life over time where I am a
(38:06):
good person in my own eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 8 (38:10):
I'm not saying I always succeed, but I think it's
that sort of almost delusion of grandeur, of like, oh,
I want to be a good person, and when life
tests me, I want to be someone who helps other people,
even at my own expense. Embracing those tropes and wanting
to live up to them, I think is a good thing,
(38:31):
even when there is some delusion in it, Like I think,
allow yourself to indulge in the fantasy of being heroic
when the going gets tough.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Indulge in the fantasy of being heroic when the going
gets tough. I've been thinking a lot about that as
we've wrapped work on this series, about the folks that
we've talked to along the way who didn't just indulge
in the fantasy, but who were heroes. People like Bobby
Thomas and Kalais Campbell at Denver Seth, people like Annie Wilson,
who spent twenty years trying to get her team name
(39:04):
changed before it finally did. Or the historians we've talked
to who aren't afraid to tell the real histories of
their towns and of this country, even when it's ugly,
Or the everyday people we've met in Florence who aren't
too afraid to say that something is wrong when it's wrong,
even in the face of the backlash of those that
cling to tradition. Because at the end of this after
(39:25):
a year of research, of learning, of conversations, of coalition building,
and most importantly of trying, really trying to make change
happen in Florence, Kentucky, my hometown, I think it really
comes down to the push and pull of tradition versus progress,
about the clash between moving forward and turning back. And
when I look up from my notes, when I look
(39:46):
up from the microphone, when I look beyond the athletic
fields of Florence in the banks of the Ohio River,
I see that clash everywhere. I think you do too.
It feels in a lot of ways like the defining
struggle of our time to move forward in the face
of the massive resistance to change. When we lined up
to vote in twenty sixteen, in twenty twenty and just
(40:09):
last week. That is ultimately what we're choosing between. There
are a million skirmishes in this battle. In mine is
getting the Boone County Rebel to become the Boone County
Biscuits or whatever. Really, listener, I think biscuits are delicious.
But if these kids want to be the Rangers, the
Mammoths or the mal Rats or the Tigers, or literally
(40:30):
anything else but a name that glorifies the Confederacy, then
more power to them. The point is that change is good,
That moving forward is good. That looking around and seeing
that your community has transformed dramatically since the nineteen fifties,
seeing that the world has changed since then, and embracing
that transformation. That's what this is all about. And so
(40:51):
let's all indulge in the fantasy of being heroic together first,
and ask of you send words of encouragement to those
that are in positions of power in Boone County. Don't
be mean, don't be combative. We've made all the arguments
that need to be made here on this podcast, So
encourage them to be heroic, to make change, not because
(41:14):
it's easy, but because it is right.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
We've heard rumors that this change might be coming soon.
We've tried to chase them down to confirm if it's
really happening, and we've once again hit dead ends. But
I have to believe it, and your encouragement might just
make it happen. But also I'm not done yet. This
podcast is not over. We've been given a little more
time in a few more episodes to continue to pursue
(41:39):
this change wherever it takes us. We're going to go
away for a little bit to do some reporting and
to do the work and also honestly catch our breath.
But you'll hear from us soon and hopefully it's with
good news. Until then, I'm Akuila Hughes, and this has
been Rebel Spirit. Spirit is a production of Ninth Planet
(42:01):
Audio in association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by
me Akuila Hughes. I'm also an executive producer and the host.
Produced by Dan Sinker, edited by Josie A.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Son,
Sound design and mixing by Josie A.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator is Anna
Sun and Chine Production accounting by Dill Pretzing, additional research
support from Janis Dillard. Special thanks to Jay Becker and
the whole team at BLDG the Florence y'alls, Amber Hoffmann,
and Leslie Chambers. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio are
Elizabeth Baklett and Jimmy Miller
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Monster: BTK
'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.