October 22, 2024 • 37 mins
The biggest advice Akilah has gotten for changing the Rebels mascot has been to get in touch with NFL MVP running back and Boone County High School alum, Shaun Alexander. Using the unfortunate power of Facebook, Akilah gets pretty darn close to that goal.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Ninth Planet Audio Overland.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Everywhere we've turned, we've heard one name over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Alexander Way n Right to stay on sha.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Shawn Alexander Way.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So that's the guy.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well, I do you know Shawn Alexander?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Are trying to get I don't, but I can ask.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, you know, he seems like went to high school,
high school.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I don't have an end with it, Shawn Alexander, do
you know him?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Think that we're at a place where our big white
whale is still Shawn Alexander, and we're kind of going
at it from a few different angles of like the entertainment,
Shawn Alexander is a local hero and his legacy in
the community is unshakable. For every naysay that brings up
school legacy as a reason not to change the mascot
who carries a larger steak in our school's legacy than Sean.
(01:06):
We spent the last episode talking about how a hometown
hero like Kalais Campbell can influence the community, reinforcing the
fact that when champions.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Speak, the school listens.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
For those of you who didn't watch football between two
thousand and two thousand and eight, let me catch you
up on this man's record.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I A love by Sean Alexandra.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
You can't leave that.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sewn.
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Alexander has been bad to day into the EMSIL touchdown
stay home flopping another Tanglin.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He's honors who are into the five touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Born in Florence in nineteen seventy seven, Shawn attended Boone
County from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety five, playing football, basketball, baseball,
and track. He was in Sports Illustrated in two different features.
While just at Boone County, he committed to playing college
football for the University of Alabama, becoming a part of
the storied Crimson Tide program. He was a Heisman Trophy
finalist and was on the cover of the video game
(01:57):
NCAA Football two thousand and one. That's the kind of
end fact he was making even before reaching the NFL
in two thousand, the Seattle Seahawks selected him in the
first round nineteenth overall. He earned the NFL Most Valuable
Player Award in two thousand and five and broke the
single season touchdown record. He again was on the cover
of the video game Madden NFL two thousand and seven.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
He was an all around running back, and that's not
a cliche. He could do everything.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
This is Kevin Clark, host of the podcast This Is Football.
But more importantly, he covered the NFL for the Wall
Street Journal during Seawan Alexander's main NFL years, so he
has a great insight on what made Sean an MVP.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
He was physical, he was fast, he was dependable with
the ball he got in the end zone. There wasn't
anything he couldn't do. You trusted him to get the
yardage he needed, which is the literal job description of
a running back. And so there was there was beauty
in his game. There was brutality in his game. He
(02:55):
knew how to play any type of game, and that
is the one of the reasons he helped define his
era of running back play.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Shawn Alexander was the best running back of his time,
which back then really meant something.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
The thing you have to understand about this era of
football is it's the last era in which the running
back was a god. Right after this, all of the
rules started to change, all of the quarterbacks started to
get better, and I think most people with in the
NFL consider that basically what's called the passing boom that
started around two thousand and eleven. If you look at
the stats and Sean Alexander had left the league by
(03:30):
two thousand and nine, I don't think that that's much
of a coincidence. I think that you saw this generation
of running backs with Danian Tomlinson, Seawan Alexander, guys like
that who put franchises on their back, And I think
that that's the most important thing to know is I
think people now look at the running back position as
replaceable or now what it was. Shawn Alexander was a
(03:50):
different era. Adrian Peterson another great example. Adrian Peterson won
the MVP Award in twenty twelve, and that was kind
of the last gasp of the running back positions in
quarterbacks ever since. Shawn Alexander belonged to a different era,
which in football terms, feels like a million years ago.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
The running back PSI and Shawn Alexander in particular, if
you look at him and you watch him play in
high school, he probably the coolest guy in the world.
If you saw him play in Alabama and I did,
it's the coolest thing in the world. The coolest thing
in the world is to say I have the ball
and I'm going to run through.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You, Beyon Seattle. Alexander briefly played for the Washington Commanders
when they were still called the Redskins, before retiring from
professional football in two thousand and eight. Seawn, his wife,
and their ten children reside in rural Virginia. Godall, he's
comfortable living in the obscurity that he tried hard to escape. So, yeah,
while I may have more followers on Instagram one hundred
(04:44):
thousand versus Sean's thirty nine thousand, sorry, he carries a
lot more weight with the people of Florence. And so
we knew that connecting with Sean was crucial to our
movement to change the Boone County High School team name.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I was a lady rebell, like, why.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Does that even the Boone County Rebels will stay the
Boone County Rebels with the image puts right here in
black and white, the friends a bigger a flag or mascot.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Any time you're trying to mess with tradition, you had
to be ready for its serious.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Backgrounds from Ninth Planet Audio, I'm Akhila Hughes and this
is Rebel Spirit episode eight.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Sean.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
When we began our search for Shawn Alexander, I thought
it would be easy. This guy was on the cover
of Sports Illustrated multiple times. He was on the cover
of two video games. He was on TV rushing for
his team for nearly a decade. He's been nominated for
the NFL Hall of Fame pretty much every year for
the last ten years. He should not be hard to find.
But listener, I could not have been more wrong. Damn,
(05:53):
this man is online but never checks his DMS or anything.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Like, it's really weird.
Speaker 7 (05:57):
Reach out to the Seahawks, I reach out to Alabama,
I reach out to the NFL Players Association. I feel
like his accounts got to be run by maybe someone
else or who knows. Maybe he doesn't know, so he
needs to pay them less because yet maybe he Yeah,
he just doesn't know how to check messages.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
If I'm looking for a job, maybe I need to
put my hat in the ring.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
We tried every email address in contact field we could
find on the internet.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
A promising moment came when the NFL Players Association gave
us the email they had on file for his manager.
That email address bounced. We reached a speaking agent for
Sean who rebuffed our inquiry because they only repped for
paid opportunities. They told us to talk with his agent,
but gave us no contact. Finally, our producer, Elizabeth, used
her contacts in the entertainment industry to get what seemed
(06:47):
like a solid connection.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
We've cried tons of different ways, but can you do
you have a way to seev As like a manager
or a publicist or anyway. Yeah, you can't find anything
about him besides just like a submission contact for that.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He's with Independent Sports and Entertainment, okay, and he's with
Ashley Smith Becker.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It says, okay, so let me try Ashley. Okay. I'll
also just ask around.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It seemed like we were onto something, but pretty quickly
we hit another dead end. Eventually we got what we
believe was a direct phone number and email address for Sean.
I sent an email where I pled my case, Dear Sean,
I hope this message finds you and your family well
rested and blessed. I'm Akuila Hughes. I'm a writer, comedian, podcaster,
(07:36):
and Boone County High School alum from the class of
two thousand and five. I'm working on a podcast for
iHeartRadio about the school and frankly, all roads lead back
to you. We spoke with parents, students, alum, the school board,
business owners in the area, the Florence y'alls, and it
is clear that your legacy in the area is felt
and appreciated by everyone who has been there since your
(07:57):
time at boone. You really are there, superstar are This
project is really important to Florence and we'd love to
speak with you for it. I know you're busy and
we don't need much of your time. Fifteen to thirty
minutes would be wonderful, less if that's all you have
from the research my producers.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
And I have done.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You are still very much involved in sports and your
collegiate athlete rankings, doing podcast appearances and showing up in
person to celebrate the game. But more than that, you
seem to be a dedicated family man and we would
love to speak with you about all of it. Can't
wait to hear back and hopefully speak soon warmly. Akila Hughes,
we got no response. I called the number but just
(08:35):
got a voicemail. I sent texts, my producers sent texts. Nothing.
Even Kalais Campbell, the NFL star who helped Denver South
move from the Rebels to the Ravens, offered to reach
out to Sean.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I'm not probably touched with tomorrow. The current players are.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
We have his contact. If you want to talk to him,
we will give you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It would be very helpful, but to the best of
our knowledge, never got through. Then we found our way in.
We'll be right back. So Durant Alexander, Yeah, he's his brother,
message him.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I'm gonna message him.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, this is good.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Even with our access to agents, publicists, and managers, it
is abundantly clear that the platform of choice for reaching
out and connecting with people in Florence is Facebook. Yeah,
so I can message Duran because we're already friends.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
What should I say?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
He was active fifty eight minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
He's on there.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I'm never on here. I'm gonna have to get back
off Facebook for you.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Let's say, hey, Duran, how you're doing. I'm working on
and Facebook paid off. I'm really excited because it's like
this is the closest we've gotten.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I mean, I feel like we've tried everything.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
We've tried his agents, we've tried his like people who
have arranged others speaking in podcast deals for him.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I feel like there are feelers out to the NFL
it seems like we're very close.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So now we have a relative which who also went
to Boone County, so that's helpful. You know, I think
that he'll have at least a fair review of what
the school was like anyway, and also just maybe some
insight about the mascot.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
But maybe this is the key to getting to Sean.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
When I came through Boom with my brother, you know
you're talking about you, you can count on one hand,
maybe two.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there weren't that many of.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Ken.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
We weren't counting. To be clear, I was always counting
the black kids.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I'm like, all right, and we were relating to many,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Can you believe it? This is actually truly Duran Alexander
Shawn's brother and also an alum of Boone County High
School class of nineteen ninety four. If you'll recall, up
until now, we haven't interviewed any other black alums of
Boone County High School. So I was truly excited to
hear more about Duran's experience at BCHS and by extension.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Shawn's yeah school for me, you know, I mean to
I don't know, no one would know, but but the
day that you know, I'm from the mid nineties, so
we came up then and yeah, and honestly, like high
school was a positive experience for me. I was very
fortunate with the people that I came up with through
uh through middle school and i high school. You know,
(11:18):
very positive because you know, when I came through Boom
with my brother, administration, they tried to make sure that
you know, the time there that that you really were about,
you know, just learning and getting that opportunity. You know, myself,
I stayed very active and banned uh basketball, baseball. My
brother uh did basketball, baseball and football, and uh yeah,
(11:40):
you know, it just allowed us to to be have
a positive experience there being lifelong doing County. People like
you know, really like his His overall goal was just
to play on the football team and uh and make
it the state, you know what I mean. Our our
football team was that good, and that's that that was
the goal.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
By the time Sean reached high school, he and his
brother Duran being raised by their single mother in low
income housing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Our mom was was just all about just going to school.
I remember telling my brother when he finished his junior year,
I said, man, do you know if you had a
season that was like even half of this, like you
could get a college scholarship. And we were like, that's crazy,
that's that's insane.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
No way, yeah, really you.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Know what I mean, Like so yeah, so it was
it was like it was exciting, but we just didn't
we we didn't even really realize that, you know, kind
of what what he was and what what was even
at stake. You know, you have to remember, like this
is before social media and before you know, you could
tap in and say who was doing what, So we
only knew that like, hey, you know, we're we're we're
(12:43):
really good, and there's a lot of people that are
coming out to to seem and he hadn't scored by
the end of the first quarter, They're like, hey's everything
all right? Is that? What's It was amazing because you know,
I mean, when you're in it like that and without having,
like I said, social media, you don't realize that what
(13:03):
he was doing was just so abnormal.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Duran's got a great point about the lack of social
media in the nineties and how that probably allowed the
students to sort of live within the bubble of their
own community and celebrate what probably now feels like a
golden age of their high school's history. But looking back,
I have to wonder what Duran remembers about the introduction
of Mister Rebel and whether he and Sean felt there
was any issue with it, or if, like most teenagers,
(13:28):
they were just having fun with their friends and trying
to win a state championship or in Duran's case, learning
the newest song for the marching band.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I was trying to even think like band wise, because
you know, old school, we were the rebel brigade, you know,
rebl brigade, and I'm trying to think like we used
to have like the the man on the horse right
with the you know, I mean, with the you know,
with the sword or whatever. They introduced mister Rebel, but
they had just changed from rebels like rebel color Confederate color,
(13:59):
and they changed it over to the kind of what
the blue and white or blues I mean, So they
made it so yeah, so it actually was one of
my one of my friends on the basketball team. So
his dad actually had the costume and wore it, you
know what I mean, And and he was, uh so
he was in that.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know, yeah, yes, quick interjection, Judy and HB. Death
Ridge's sons, Mike and John went to b c HS
at the same time as Sean and Duran and played
on many of their same teams We're at.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Around that time, and it was really it was interesting.
That's when I even brought up the administration before, because
you know, I mean, like as it was making the changes,
you can imagine there were there were some people who
were who were for it, and they were yes, like
you know, hey, let's let's make the change. And some
people who were not, they they wanted to keep it
the old way.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The old way remember was waving the Confederate flag.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, so you know, we we were We've been brought
into the office and sat down and what do we
think about rebels? What do we think that was going on?
You know what I mean, we had people, you know,
still trying to hoist the flag up at the school.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
All right.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I just need to pause for a moment here, because
here's the administration of Boone County High School in the
early nineteen nineties bringing their top athletes into the office,
two of the only black students in the school, I
should add, and asking them what they thought of the
name rebels.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So all the way back then.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
They knew, they knew.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, and I just had a couple friends. They were
you know, they were in fights every other day.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, they were like, I'm going to fight you put
that flag away, right?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah? Yeah, being that flag and act like you didn't
wave it. Yeah, we're gonna have a problem.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
HB.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Death Ridge has mentioned in the past that he wanted
to get Confederate flags out of the school, and there
were students who were standing up for themselves, getting into
actual fights with racist bullies who brought it to events.
So Duran and Sean were clearly valuable members of the
BCHS community. They participated in sports, the band. They were
personally asked how they felt about the name rebel. So
(16:00):
I've got to ask him about the Biscuits. I know
I'm a glutton for punishment, but what if he loves it?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
What do you.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Think of the Boone County Biscuits just as a name,
the boom can right Biscuits so or I feel like
(16:30):
it has the same syllables. It's if they want to
be proud of the South and their Southern heritage, the
Biscuits aren't proud.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I can't no, you can't no.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I can't with you on now there is well you
know what I mean, because I still think even though
they're they're they're they're not good. There are a couple
of sports teams, you know what I mean that that
at least are decent, right for for Boone County, right,
you know what I mean, You're going to be hard
pressed to get some kids, you know, and we're gonna
(17:05):
circle and they don't feel us today everybody and one hand,
one hand.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
In I think it's you know, as as a person
who didn't do sports, I love it, but I hear
you it's a hard sell.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
All right, you know you.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, they're gonna get chumps. They're gonna get chumps if
they lose you. Yes, yeah, you you all saw that coming.
But despite not being a fan of the Biscuits, I
could tell he knew how out of sync Rebels is
with both the surrounding school's mascots and with the demographic
of kids who go there. Now, I told him the
(17:45):
story of Kalais Campbell helping Denver South change to the
Ravens and asked, if it's not Biscuits or Rebels, what
should it be.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, you know, I mean that's a great that's a
great question. Yeah, that's a good question because like I
could definitely see I could see ravens, you know what
I mean more than well.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You know, if it was gonna be something else. It's
like you have the cougars, you have.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Cooper is Jaguars, Yeah, Cooper's yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
So it's like, you know, it could be the panthers,
it's all.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It could be something that's like, you know, just an animal,
seems like it's gonna have the most longevity.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
The other one is, you know, Rile is the Raiders,
so they'll have the you know I mean like the
pirate dude right with the orange bandanna and the you know,
the eyepatch or whatever. For Boom, like they've done so
much in that line, like you know and say, hey,
like we're not that. If you see the demographic of
Boom County, now, oh.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah it's different.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I was like, I can't believe every shade of beige, brown, tan, dark.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Like, oh oh my goodness, right, I mean so many
countries are are represented, you know over there. You know,
we have in Florence in general, a huge just like
I mean not just black, but I mean a huge
African population like we you know, I mean, for whatever reason,
a number of kids from the Congo, Like we have
a huge Congolese population that comes through Collins Elementary.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I mean like the diversity you spoke to some students.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean like I truly spoke to kids who are
like I have no connection to rebels, Like it doesn't
mean anything. And I'm like, is it because you don't
have a mascot? And they're like, well, yeah, like what
is it? Like what even is it? Like they were like, my,
my I guess my school spirit is the color blue
and let my friends go to school here.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And I'm like, we probably need a mascot.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, knowing the history, and I would say that their
effort to switch it from that, yeah, then it just
left it as like, yeah, like, hey you're rebel Star Wars.
If you want to try to go yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know what I mean, if you want to be
like vaguely.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Right, you know what I mean, I'm just you know,
old school rebel without a cause, I'm just James.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
That's what they say, right, But I'm like that where
is the leather jacket?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Right?
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Then?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Then you would expect, right, which would even still be kind.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Of dating the kids don't know that movie, right, you know, it.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Wouldn't be racially dated, but it would be weird, right
if if everybody was like trying to rock leather jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yeah, like they're greasers.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Up in there.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, you know what's up? Yeah, that would be.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Hated for my mom, Like that's before she was born. Still,
you know, like that's just not a thing. Yeah, And
once again we land ourselves back at James Dean. Hearing
more about Duran's experience at boone made me realize we
had a lot of similar experiences. But what I find
truly inspiring is how much Duran and Sean have been
(20:28):
able to do for the community in recent years through
the Shawn Alexander Foundation. It's clear Sean has left a
positive mark on the school and Florence in general.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
Seawn Alexander made an appearance this morning at Boom County
High School. He gave a pep talk at a breakfast
for Boom County's football team. He wanted to make an
impression on what it means to be a rebel. That
of course, is the school's mascot.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I know his support in changing the mascot would be
a game changer, so I am crossing literally every finger
and toe that somehow, some way we can at least
get our message to him, whether it's through Duran or
any of the dozens of other avenues were trying. Nevertheless,
we persist more after the break. I can imagine that
right now you must be thinking, Wow, they're getting so
(21:14):
incredibly close to Sean. He's definitely going to be the
next interview. Listener, prepare yourself to be disappointed. As of
our deadline for this episode, we have heard literally nothing
from Sean Alexander, which is more than a year from
the first time we reached out to Sean. I'm sure
he has his reasons, but I still can't help but
(21:35):
feel so incredibly deflated after getting so close in so
many different ways. We truly did everything we could possibly
think to get in touch with Sean for this episode,
but sometimes things just don't have the big, happy Hollywood
ending we all hope for.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I think when Colin Kaepernick knelt the first time, I
don't think he knew he would be blackballed from like
doing the thing that he loves at a very and
you know, a thing that he's been doing. It was
doing at a very high level for a long time.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
This is Kevin Newin, a features editor at The Verge,
where he publishes award winning stories about labor, business, and policing. Previously,
he was a senior editor at GQ.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
GQ does this issue at the end of the year,
called the Men of the Year Issue. We put Colin
Kaepernick as one of several covers, and there's a photo
shoot and it's kind of an unusual story because we
don't talk to Colin in the piece at all. He's participating,
but he was being silent as part of his protest
against police brutality and systemic racism.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
We all remember when Colin Kaepernick, then the NFL quarterback
for the San Francisco forty nine Ers, began his protest
in twenty sixteen by initially sitting and later kneeling during
the national anthem before games. His actions ignited a nationwide debate.
Athletes have long used their platforms for activism, but Kaepernick's
protest occurred in a Trump presidency and social media driven era,
(22:58):
when the country was openly to.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
I did it was kind of nuts to like look
back on and just see how far that traveled. Seven
years out or a little bit short of that, since
you know, like we worked on this GQ issue and
it's disheartening.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
After the twenty sixteen season, Colin Kaepernick's contract wasn't renewed
by the San Francisco forty nine ers and he became
a free agent. He has not been signed by a
single football team since. And so I had to ask,
in light of what happened to Colin Kaepernick, is there
any benefit for an athlete to stick their neck out
for a good cause?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
No?
Speaker 5 (23:32):
I mean I don't think there's You're right, like what
the NFL has done in silencing him, like it worked,
that chilling effect is real. There are a lot of
athletes that you know, yeah, they don't want to go
on the record about this stuff because all it does is,
you know, harmed their their career.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Sorry, was the name of the running back from your house?
Speaker 8 (23:56):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
His name is Sean Alexander.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I mean if he is like a Hall of Fame candidate,
like he still doesn't want to, you know, piss off
the NFL, so like it would be like great for
him to talk to you. I also understand why he
don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah, like there's doing the right thing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
And then there's also like the great personal cost.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, you're right, we haven't seen NFL players since.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Then, be like, well I'm gonna do it too. Yeah,
why would they?
Speaker 5 (24:25):
You know, Like I don't want to say that, like
there isn't some progress. It's easy to you know, see
how silly an end racism thing is in the end zone.
But like, I don't know, like we are, like the
league is acknowledging a racism even.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Again, Yeah that's the first time.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
So that's progress. The league so like funnels you in
a certain form of activism that.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
They find appropriate.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, they find appropriate. And I actually think the
even if you know, like some of the phrasing is
stuff like you might find at a march, it's easy
to tune out because it's on the back of everyone's helmet,
and once you start seeing the same thing everywhere, like
it's no longer a form of agitation, you know, which
just washes over you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I feel like the path for activism tends to be
to get noticed from media and then from there, you know,
try and get the message out that way. But yeah,
there's kind of like no silver bullet for this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I wanted Sean Alexander to be my silver bullet so badly,
But I know that's not fair. He's his own person
and has his own motivations. Maybe he wants to run
for public office someday. He likely values the support of
the community for his philanthropic projects and doesn't want to
risk alienating them. Or perhaps it's because he's been unfairly
overlooked for the Football Hall of Fame for the last decade,
(25:37):
and at this point his priority is preserving his athletic
legacy and wants to steer clear of social or political
debates that could overshadow his achievements or complicate his legacy.
But this is sports, and as much as people wanted
to just be about what happens on the field, it's
about more than that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
You know.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
The truth is that sports and politics have always mixed. Sports,
policy takes race, gender, culture always have mixed, you know together.
I mean, Jackie Robinson integrated Major League Baseball in nineteen
forty seven. That was twenty years before we got the
Civil Rights Act, Okay, And it's like often sports has
been placed in the intersection of these monumental changes, if
(26:16):
not led the way when it comes to change.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
This is Jamel Hill, influential American sports journalist known for
her dynamic career at ESPN, where she co hosted Sports Center.
Hill made headlines in twenty seventeen for outspoken criticism of
President Donald Trump, calling him a white supremacist on Twitter
after its infamous good people on both sides press conference.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
It was only bad people on one side.
Speaker 9 (26:38):
Those are the people that came to charlettes Field, Virginia
with the intentions to spread Hey. I called the President
on Twitter a white supremacist, and as they say, life
took on. You know, my life took on something of
its own. You know, I'm a sports center anchor.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's not where.
Speaker 9 (26:56):
That's not the type of fanticism what would expect from
a sports center anchor. And granted I did not say
this on air, despite people believing that I did. I
said this on my Twitter account in reply to someone
else who was defending Trump, defending white supremacists, and so
I got into a back and forth. Those tweets blew
up became an international story. The President called me out
(27:17):
and said that I should be fired. Sarah Huckabee Sanders,
who was his press secretary, said the same thing at
a White House press brief raing, So it kind of
took my name out of the realm of sports and
put it into politics. And even though I've been interested
in politics my whole career, my main foothold is my
main thing is sports. I've been a sports writer for
almost thirty years now. So you know, I left ESPN
(27:40):
in twenty eighteen. The network was in a very uncomfortable
spot after what I said, and it just felt like
our relationship had kind of run its course. And I've
done everything there. It was other things I wanted to
do with my career. I certainly wanted to get into
some of the behind the scenes stuff that I'm doing now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The Unite the Right rally was in August twenty seventeen,
and Trump stated and Timber twenty seventeen that NFL owners
should fire players who kneel during the national anthem, like
Colin Kaepernick. The intersection of race, sports and politics was inescapable.
Speaker 9 (28:11):
When you think about how the NFL has to wear
that stain of what they did to him, because I
don't think it'll ever be forgotten. You exiled somebody who
only was speaking up for what is a humanitarian cause.
You know, police brutality is something we should all be against.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right.
Speaker 9 (28:29):
That doesn't have a side. It's like, no, you shouldn't
have the people who are paid to protect. You should
have unfettered, unchecked authority to brutalize, demean, sometimes kill the
citizens they are supposed to protect. But if you think
about historically how he's going to be remembered, there's the upside. Now,
he didn't do it for that because he's not that
(28:50):
kind of He's not that kind of person. It's why
you haven't heard him talk very much to the media
since it's happened. You haven't seen him out like he
that's not what he does. He prefers to do the
work and make the impact that way. And I understand
that a lot of athletes look at it as well,
what if I, you know what if I piss off brands?
(29:10):
What if I you know what if marketers don't want
to deal with me? And yeah, that's going to be
part of the risk.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
But Jamel thinks that things are changing.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I do think the sports audience has changed.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
I think they now, especially younger people, they kind of
want to know what these athletes are about, Like they
want to know, do you stand for something? Or are
you just about making money or what are you doing
beyond that? And part of the reason why I think
that demand is being made more by sports fans is
because of somebody like Colin Kaepernick, is because of somebody
(29:42):
like Lebron James, who's also been equally outspoken. And I
know Lebron is in a different position because he doesn't
want to work with Gobron right, so he's going to
get a level of protection that's in there. But I
do think that there is a lot more openness for
it to be done. What I have enjoyed about covering
this generation of athletes is that I don't think that
(30:05):
they are necessarily following that model that sort of Michael
Jortan gave for the blueprint of the athletes in the nineties.
The Republicans blast shoes too. I don't think that today's
athlete is really doing that. I mean, that's gen Z
in general. It's like they you know, they're very they're
very outspoken with how they feel about things, and I
think that's overall, that's like a very good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Jamel Hill is the ideal person to weigh in on
both our fight for the Rebel change and Sean silence,
while I only dealt with Judy death Ridge. Jamal stood
up to a president. Plus she has a deep understanding
of athletes in the worlds they navigate, at least.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
In talking to I don't think that speaking out is
something that is required for every athlete. It is something
that not every athlete is equipped to do because I's
some athletes speaking.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I'm like, you could have really been quiet, but that's okay, right,
like you a big one silence was an option.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
Okay, I'm okay if you pass the mic, you know.
So I think we have to be careful in assuming
that everybody's equipped to do it, and part of being
equipped to do it means that you have to be
mentally ready for the backlash. Sometimes what prevents people from
speaking out is just feeling ostracized, because then people know like, oh,
(31:26):
you're one of those uh you just you speak out,
you have opinions, you you're gonna make us challenge something,
you know, especially when it comes to mascots.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I mean, asked Washington fans how they feel about when
their's changed.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
I mean people have this or even Kansas City Jee's
fans we've been called out about, you know, their behavior
at games and the disrespect of the of the Native
American and Indigenous communities. People are hesitant to change even
though they're wrong as hell. And when you become the
person who speaks out against something, especially that's something they
(32:00):
look at as traditional, can it can go bad. And
you know, even though Sean may not be playing, And
I'm not trying to make excuses from because I definitely
I get torn about this when I asked, like, should
athletes speak up? Because generally they are afforded with a platform,
with a certain amount of privilege that most people don't
(32:22):
have and I certainly come from. For me as a
as a journalist is one of the big reasons I
became one. It's like your whole, your whole ideology should
be you're supposed to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We learn that a journalism school, that is the job.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Right with athletes, that's not necessarily the job, but they
are in a special position, especially as a black athlete,
and especially to be able to have some conversations with
some people who might not ordinarily understand why something is wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
They're in a unique position.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
But even after they have moved on from the game,
there's still business opportunities, there's still alumni connections, there's still
other things that they have to consider, and maybe it's
just something even though his voice could be very positive
and impacting change, maybe it's something he's just not comfortable
with because thinking about.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
The blowback feels like too much.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
So, you know, I hope that it's something that Sean
Alexander maybe thinks about. And maybe because you are, you know,
advocating for him to say something, maybe it's something that
eventually he will. I mean, I hope he does, you know, personally,
because this, you know, the truth is like it just
(33:45):
sort of speaks to of the many things that are
wrong in this country, is that we don't denounce our racism.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
We build monuments to it.
Speaker 9 (33:53):
And so that's the part that I hope Sean thinks about,
is that this is about a larger concept of why
we still are having trouble atoning from one of the
greatest sins this nation has ever committed.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Very young. If some of you are thinking Sean is
just a private person, maybe he doesn't want to be
involved with the media anymore, consider this. Sean has been
a guest on a few football podcasts just this past year,
and there have been numerous write ups about him not
yet being in the Hall of Fame despite being nominated
multiple times. Sean, if you're listening, let me say this Clearly,
(34:37):
your career alone is Hall of Fame worthy, but you
have a chance to be remembered for something equally significant,
one that resonates deeply with every student in your hometown
who has felt overlooked. Did you know the Seahawks got
their name after a public naming contest with more than
twenty thousand entries. I bet you anything that if we
got the school to give entries, you'd be the perfect
(34:59):
person to pick the winner. Anyway, all that to say,
the door is always open. Just feel free to reach out.
I'm on all the socials. Hit us up at our
email Rebelspirit podcasts at gmail dot com. Truly, however you
want to get in touch, we will be so happy
to talk more with you. Even without Sewn Alexander, I
(35:20):
was determined to continue my journey and actually speak to
the school board about making this change. So in December
of twenty twenty three, just before the holidays, me and
my producers decided to spend one more week in Florence
and officially make our case in front of both the
school board and the BCHS School based decision making counsel.
Get ready for some impassioned speeches coming up next week.
(35:47):
Rebel Spirit is a production of ninth Planet Audio and
association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by me Akila Hughes.
I'm also an executive producer and the host produced.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
By Dan Sinker. Josie A. Zahm Our.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Sun,
Sound design and mixing by Josie A. Zahmb Our. Theme
song is all the Things I Couldn't Say, performed by
Bussy and the Bass, courtesy of Arts and Crafts Productions, Inc.
Our production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator is
Anna Sun Andshine. Production accounting by Dilfried Singh. Additional research
(36:24):
support from Janice Dillard. Executive producers for ninth Planet Audio
are Elizabeth Baquet and Jimmy Miller. Special thanks to Jay
Becker and the whole team at BLDG, the Florence y'alls,
Amber Hoffmann, Hillary Delaney, and Leslie Chambers.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
If you have a.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Racist mascot at your high school or are an alumni
of a high school with a racist mascot and want
to share your own experience. Please email us at Rebel
Spirit podcast at gmail dot com. We would love to
hear from you
Ninth Planet Audio Overland.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Everywhere we've turned, we've heard one name over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Alexander Way n Right to stay on sha.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Shawn Alexander Way.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So that's the guy.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well, I do you know Shawn Alexander?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Are trying to get I don't, but I can ask.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, you know, he seems like went to high school,
high school.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I don't have an end with it, Shawn Alexander, do
you know him?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Think that we're at a place where our big white
whale is still Shawn Alexander, and we're kind of going
at it from a few different angles of like the entertainment,
Shawn Alexander is a local hero and his legacy in
the community is unshakable. For every naysay that brings up
school legacy as a reason not to change the mascot
who carries a larger steak in our school's legacy than Sean.
(01:06):
We spent the last episode talking about how a hometown
hero like Kalais Campbell can influence the community, reinforcing the
fact that when champions.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Speak, the school listens.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
For those of you who didn't watch football between two
thousand and two thousand and eight, let me catch you
up on this man's record.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I A love by Sean Alexandra.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
You can't leave that.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sewn.
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Alexander has been bad to day into the EMSIL touchdown
stay home flopping another Tanglin.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He's honors who are into the five touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Born in Florence in nineteen seventy seven, Shawn attended Boone
County from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety five, playing football, basketball, baseball,
and track. He was in Sports Illustrated in two different features.
While just at Boone County, he committed to playing college
football for the University of Alabama, becoming a part of
the storied Crimson Tide program. He was a Heisman Trophy
finalist and was on the cover of the video game
(01:57):
NCAA Football two thousand and one. That's the kind of
end fact he was making even before reaching the NFL
in two thousand, the Seattle Seahawks selected him in the
first round nineteenth overall. He earned the NFL Most Valuable
Player Award in two thousand and five and broke the
single season touchdown record. He again was on the cover
of the video game Madden NFL two thousand and seven.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
He was an all around running back, and that's not
a cliche. He could do everything.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
This is Kevin Clark, host of the podcast This Is Football.
But more importantly, he covered the NFL for the Wall
Street Journal during Seawan Alexander's main NFL years, so he
has a great insight on what made Sean an MVP.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
He was physical, he was fast, he was dependable with
the ball he got in the end zone. There wasn't
anything he couldn't do. You trusted him to get the
yardage he needed, which is the literal job description of
a running back. And so there was there was beauty
in his game. There was brutality in his game. He
(02:55):
knew how to play any type of game, and that
is the one of the reasons he helped define his
era of running back play.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Shawn Alexander was the best running back of his time,
which back then really meant something.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
The thing you have to understand about this era of
football is it's the last era in which the running
back was a god. Right after this, all of the
rules started to change, all of the quarterbacks started to
get better, and I think most people with in the
NFL consider that basically what's called the passing boom that
started around two thousand and eleven. If you look at
the stats and Sean Alexander had left the league by
(03:30):
two thousand and nine, I don't think that that's much
of a coincidence. I think that you saw this generation
of running backs with Danian Tomlinson, Seawan Alexander, guys like
that who put franchises on their back, And I think
that that's the most important thing to know is I
think people now look at the running back position as
replaceable or now what it was. Shawn Alexander was a
(03:50):
different era. Adrian Peterson another great example. Adrian Peterson won
the MVP Award in twenty twelve, and that was kind
of the last gasp of the running back positions in
quarterbacks ever since. Shawn Alexander belonged to a different era,
which in football terms, feels like a million years ago.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
The running back PSI and Shawn Alexander in particular, if
you look at him and you watch him play in
high school, he probably the coolest guy in the world.
If you saw him play in Alabama and I did,
it's the coolest thing in the world. The coolest thing
in the world is to say I have the ball
and I'm going to run through.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You, Beyon Seattle. Alexander briefly played for the Washington Commanders
when they were still called the Redskins, before retiring from
professional football in two thousand and eight. Seawn, his wife,
and their ten children reside in rural Virginia. Godall, he's
comfortable living in the obscurity that he tried hard to escape. So, yeah,
while I may have more followers on Instagram one hundred
(04:44):
thousand versus Sean's thirty nine thousand, sorry, he carries a
lot more weight with the people of Florence. And so
we knew that connecting with Sean was crucial to our
movement to change the Boone County High School team name.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I was a lady rebell, like, why.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Does that even the Boone County Rebels will stay the
Boone County Rebels with the image puts right here in
black and white, the friends a bigger a flag or mascot.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
Any time you're trying to mess with tradition, you had
to be ready for its serious.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Backgrounds from Ninth Planet Audio, I'm Akhila Hughes and this
is Rebel Spirit episode eight.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Sean.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
When we began our search for Shawn Alexander, I thought
it would be easy. This guy was on the cover
of Sports Illustrated multiple times. He was on the cover
of two video games. He was on TV rushing for
his team for nearly a decade. He's been nominated for
the NFL Hall of Fame pretty much every year for
the last ten years. He should not be hard to find.
But listener, I could not have been more wrong. Damn,
(05:53):
this man is online but never checks his DMS or anything.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Like, it's really weird.
Speaker 7 (05:57):
Reach out to the Seahawks, I reach out to Alabama,
I reach out to the NFL Players Association. I feel
like his accounts got to be run by maybe someone
else or who knows. Maybe he doesn't know, so he
needs to pay them less because yet maybe he Yeah,
he just doesn't know how to check messages.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
If I'm looking for a job, maybe I need to
put my hat in the ring.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
We tried every email address in contact field we could
find on the internet.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
A promising moment came when the NFL Players Association gave
us the email they had on file for his manager.
That email address bounced. We reached a speaking agent for
Sean who rebuffed our inquiry because they only repped for
paid opportunities. They told us to talk with his agent,
but gave us no contact. Finally, our producer, Elizabeth, used
her contacts in the entertainment industry to get what seemed
(06:47):
like a solid connection.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
We've cried tons of different ways, but can you do
you have a way to seev As like a manager
or a publicist or anyway. Yeah, you can't find anything
about him besides just like a submission contact for that.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He's with Independent Sports and Entertainment, okay, and he's with
Ashley Smith Becker.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It says, okay, so let me try Ashley. Okay. I'll
also just ask around.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It seemed like we were onto something, but pretty quickly
we hit another dead end. Eventually we got what we
believe was a direct phone number and email address for Sean.
I sent an email where I pled my case, Dear Sean,
I hope this message finds you and your family well
rested and blessed. I'm Akuila Hughes. I'm a writer, comedian, podcaster,
(07:36):
and Boone County High School alum from the class of
two thousand and five. I'm working on a podcast for
iHeartRadio about the school and frankly, all roads lead back
to you. We spoke with parents, students, alum, the school board,
business owners in the area, the Florence y'alls, and it
is clear that your legacy in the area is felt
and appreciated by everyone who has been there since your
(07:57):
time at boone. You really are there, superstar are This
project is really important to Florence and we'd love to
speak with you for it. I know you're busy and
we don't need much of your time. Fifteen to thirty
minutes would be wonderful, less if that's all you have
from the research my producers.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
And I have done.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You are still very much involved in sports and your
collegiate athlete rankings, doing podcast appearances and showing up in
person to celebrate the game. But more than that, you
seem to be a dedicated family man and we would
love to speak with you about all of it. Can't
wait to hear back and hopefully speak soon warmly. Akila Hughes,
we got no response. I called the number but just
(08:35):
got a voicemail. I sent texts, my producers sent texts. Nothing.
Even Kalais Campbell, the NFL star who helped Denver South
move from the Rebels to the Ravens, offered to reach
out to Sean.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I'm not probably touched with tomorrow. The current players are.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
We have his contact. If you want to talk to him,
we will give you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It would be very helpful, but to the best of
our knowledge, never got through. Then we found our way in.
We'll be right back. So Durant Alexander, Yeah, he's his brother,
message him.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I'm gonna message him.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, this is good.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Even with our access to agents, publicists, and managers, it
is abundantly clear that the platform of choice for reaching
out and connecting with people in Florence is Facebook. Yeah,
so I can message Duran because we're already friends.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
What should I say?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
He was active fifty eight minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
He's on there.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I'm never on here. I'm gonna have to get back
off Facebook for you.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Let's say, hey, Duran, how you're doing. I'm working on
and Facebook paid off. I'm really excited because it's like
this is the closest we've gotten.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I mean, I feel like we've tried everything.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
We've tried his agents, we've tried his like people who
have arranged others speaking in podcast deals for him.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I feel like there are feelers out to the NFL
it seems like we're very close.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So now we have a relative which who also went
to Boone County, so that's helpful. You know, I think
that he'll have at least a fair review of what
the school was like anyway, and also just maybe some
insight about the mascot.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
But maybe this is the key to getting to Sean.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
When I came through Boom with my brother, you know
you're talking about you, you can count on one hand,
maybe two.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there weren't that many of.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Ken.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
We weren't counting. To be clear, I was always counting
the black kids.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I'm like, all right, and we were relating to many,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Can you believe it? This is actually truly Duran Alexander
Shawn's brother and also an alum of Boone County High
School class of nineteen ninety four. If you'll recall, up
until now, we haven't interviewed any other black alums of
Boone County High School. So I was truly excited to
hear more about Duran's experience at BCHS and by extension.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Shawn's yeah school for me, you know, I mean to
I don't know, no one would know, but but the
day that you know, I'm from the mid nineties, so
we came up then and yeah, and honestly, like high
school was a positive experience for me. I was very
fortunate with the people that I came up with through
uh through middle school and i high school. You know,
(11:18):
very positive because you know, when I came through Boom
with my brother, administration, they tried to make sure that
you know, the time there that that you really were about,
you know, just learning and getting that opportunity. You know, myself,
I stayed very active and banned uh basketball, baseball. My
brother uh did basketball, baseball and football, and uh yeah,
(11:40):
you know, it just allowed us to to be have
a positive experience there being lifelong doing County. People like
you know, really like his His overall goal was just
to play on the football team and uh and make
it the state, you know what I mean. Our our
football team was that good, and that's that that was
the goal.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
By the time Sean reached high school, he and his
brother Duran being raised by their single mother in low
income housing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Our mom was was just all about just going to school.
I remember telling my brother when he finished his junior year,
I said, man, do you know if you had a
season that was like even half of this, like you
could get a college scholarship. And we were like, that's crazy,
that's that's insane.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
No way, yeah, really you.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Know what I mean, Like so yeah, so it was
it was like it was exciting, but we just didn't
we we didn't even really realize that, you know, kind
of what what he was and what what was even
at stake. You know, you have to remember, like this
is before social media and before you know, you could
tap in and say who was doing what, So we
only knew that like, hey, you know, we're we're we're
(12:43):
really good, and there's a lot of people that are
coming out to to seem and he hadn't scored by
the end of the first quarter, They're like, hey's everything
all right? Is that? What's It was amazing because you know,
I mean, when you're in it like that and without having,
like I said, social media, you don't realize that what
(13:03):
he was doing was just so abnormal.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Duran's got a great point about the lack of social
media in the nineties and how that probably allowed the
students to sort of live within the bubble of their
own community and celebrate what probably now feels like a
golden age of their high school's history. But looking back,
I have to wonder what Duran remembers about the introduction
of Mister Rebel and whether he and Sean felt there
was any issue with it, or if, like most teenagers,
(13:28):
they were just having fun with their friends and trying
to win a state championship or in Duran's case, learning
the newest song for the marching band.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I was trying to even think like band wise, because
you know, old school, we were the rebel brigade, you know,
rebl brigade, and I'm trying to think like we used
to have like the the man on the horse right
with the you know, I mean, with the you know,
with the sword or whatever. They introduced mister Rebel, but
they had just changed from rebels like rebel color Confederate color,
(13:59):
and they changed it over to the kind of what
the blue and white or blues I mean, So they
made it so yeah, so it actually was one of
my one of my friends on the basketball team. So
his dad actually had the costume and wore it, you
know what I mean, And and he was, uh so
he was in that.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know, yeah, yes, quick interjection, Judy and HB. Death
Ridge's sons, Mike and John went to b c HS
at the same time as Sean and Duran and played
on many of their same teams We're at.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Around that time, and it was really it was interesting.
That's when I even brought up the administration before, because
you know, I mean, like as it was making the changes,
you can imagine there were there were some people who
were who were for it, and they were yes, like
you know, hey, let's let's make the change. And some
people who were not, they they wanted to keep it
the old way.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The old way remember was waving the Confederate flag.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, so you know, we we were We've been brought
into the office and sat down and what do we
think about rebels? What do we think that was going on?
You know what I mean, we had people, you know,
still trying to hoist the flag up at the school.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
All right.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I just need to pause for a moment here, because
here's the administration of Boone County High School in the
early nineteen nineties bringing their top athletes into the office,
two of the only black students in the school, I
should add, and asking them what they thought of the
name rebels.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So all the way back then.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
They knew, they knew.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, and I just had a couple friends. They were
you know, they were in fights every other day.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, they were like, I'm going to fight you put
that flag away, right?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah? Yeah, being that flag and act like you didn't
wave it. Yeah, we're gonna have a problem.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
HB.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Death Ridge has mentioned in the past that he wanted
to get Confederate flags out of the school, and there
were students who were standing up for themselves, getting into
actual fights with racist bullies who brought it to events.
So Duran and Sean were clearly valuable members of the
BCHS community. They participated in sports, the band. They were
personally asked how they felt about the name rebel. So
(16:00):
I've got to ask him about the Biscuits. I know
I'm a glutton for punishment, but what if he loves it?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
What do you.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Think of the Boone County Biscuits just as a name,
the boom can right Biscuits so or I feel like
(16:30):
it has the same syllables. It's if they want to
be proud of the South and their Southern heritage, the
Biscuits aren't proud.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I can't no, you can't no.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I can't with you on now there is well you
know what I mean, because I still think even though
they're they're they're they're not good. There are a couple
of sports teams, you know what I mean that that
at least are decent, right for for Boone County, right,
you know what I mean, You're going to be hard
pressed to get some kids, you know, and we're gonna
(17:05):
circle and they don't feel us today everybody and one hand,
one hand.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
In I think it's you know, as as a person
who didn't do sports, I love it, but I hear
you it's a hard sell.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
All right, you know you.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, they're gonna get chumps. They're gonna get chumps if
they lose you. Yes, yeah, you you all saw that coming.
But despite not being a fan of the Biscuits, I
could tell he knew how out of sync Rebels is
with both the surrounding school's mascots and with the demographic
of kids who go there. Now, I told him the
(17:45):
story of Kalais Campbell helping Denver South change to the
Ravens and asked, if it's not Biscuits or Rebels, what
should it be.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, you know, I mean that's a great that's a
great question. Yeah, that's a good question because like I
could definitely see I could see ravens, you know what
I mean more than well.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You know, if it was gonna be something else. It's
like you have the cougars, you have.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Cooper is Jaguars, Yeah, Cooper's yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
So it's like, you know, it could be the panthers,
it's all.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It could be something that's like, you know, just an animal,
seems like it's gonna have the most longevity.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
The other one is, you know, Rile is the Raiders,
so they'll have the you know I mean like the
pirate dude right with the orange bandanna and the you know,
the eyepatch or whatever. For Boom, like they've done so
much in that line, like you know and say, hey,
like we're not that. If you see the demographic of
Boom County, now, oh.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah it's different.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I was like, I can't believe every shade of beige, brown, tan, dark.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Like, oh oh my goodness, right, I mean so many
countries are are represented, you know over there. You know,
we have in Florence in general, a huge just like
I mean not just black, but I mean a huge
African population like we you know, I mean, for whatever reason,
a number of kids from the Congo, Like we have
a huge Congolese population that comes through Collins Elementary.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I mean like the diversity you spoke to some students.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean like I truly spoke to kids who are
like I have no connection to rebels, Like it doesn't
mean anything. And I'm like, is it because you don't
have a mascot? And they're like, well, yeah, like what
is it? Like what even is it? Like they were like, my,
my I guess my school spirit is the color blue
and let my friends go to school here.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And I'm like, we probably need a mascot.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, knowing the history, and I would say that their
effort to switch it from that, yeah, then it just
left it as like, yeah, like, hey you're rebel Star Wars.
If you want to try to go yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know what I mean, if you want to be
like vaguely.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Right, you know what I mean, I'm just you know,
old school rebel without a cause, I'm just James.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
That's what they say, right, But I'm like that where
is the leather jacket?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Right?
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Then?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Then you would expect, right, which would even still be kind.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Of dating the kids don't know that movie, right, you know, it.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Wouldn't be racially dated, but it would be weird, right
if if everybody was like trying to rock leather jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yeah, like they're greasers.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Up in there.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, you know what's up? Yeah, that would be.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Hated for my mom, Like that's before she was born. Still,
you know, like that's just not a thing. Yeah, And
once again we land ourselves back at James Dean. Hearing
more about Duran's experience at boone made me realize we
had a lot of similar experiences. But what I find
truly inspiring is how much Duran and Sean have been
(20:28):
able to do for the community in recent years through
the Shawn Alexander Foundation. It's clear Sean has left a
positive mark on the school and Florence in general.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
Seawn Alexander made an appearance this morning at Boom County
High School. He gave a pep talk at a breakfast
for Boom County's football team. He wanted to make an
impression on what it means to be a rebel. That
of course, is the school's mascot.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I know his support in changing the mascot would be
a game changer, so I am crossing literally every finger
and toe that somehow, some way we can at least
get our message to him, whether it's through Duran or
any of the dozens of other avenues were trying. Nevertheless,
we persist more after the break. I can imagine that
right now you must be thinking, Wow, they're getting so
(21:14):
incredibly close to Sean. He's definitely going to be the
next interview. Listener, prepare yourself to be disappointed. As of
our deadline for this episode, we have heard literally nothing
from Sean Alexander, which is more than a year from
the first time we reached out to Sean. I'm sure
he has his reasons, but I still can't help but
(21:35):
feel so incredibly deflated after getting so close in so
many different ways. We truly did everything we could possibly
think to get in touch with Sean for this episode,
but sometimes things just don't have the big, happy Hollywood
ending we all hope for.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I think when Colin Kaepernick knelt the first time, I
don't think he knew he would be blackballed from like
doing the thing that he loves at a very and
you know, a thing that he's been doing. It was
doing at a very high level for a long time.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
This is Kevin Newin, a features editor at The Verge,
where he publishes award winning stories about labor, business, and policing. Previously,
he was a senior editor at GQ.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
GQ does this issue at the end of the year,
called the Men of the Year Issue. We put Colin
Kaepernick as one of several covers, and there's a photo
shoot and it's kind of an unusual story because we
don't talk to Colin in the piece at all. He's participating,
but he was being silent as part of his protest
against police brutality and systemic racism.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
We all remember when Colin Kaepernick, then the NFL quarterback
for the San Francisco forty nine Ers, began his protest
in twenty sixteen by initially sitting and later kneeling during
the national anthem before games. His actions ignited a nationwide debate.
Athletes have long used their platforms for activism, but Kaepernick's
protest occurred in a Trump presidency and social media driven era,
(22:58):
when the country was openly to.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
I did it was kind of nuts to like look
back on and just see how far that traveled. Seven
years out or a little bit short of that, since
you know, like we worked on this GQ issue and
it's disheartening.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
After the twenty sixteen season, Colin Kaepernick's contract wasn't renewed
by the San Francisco forty nine ers and he became
a free agent. He has not been signed by a
single football team since. And so I had to ask,
in light of what happened to Colin Kaepernick, is there
any benefit for an athlete to stick their neck out
for a good cause?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
No?
Speaker 5 (23:32):
I mean I don't think there's You're right, like what
the NFL has done in silencing him, like it worked,
that chilling effect is real. There are a lot of
athletes that you know, yeah, they don't want to go
on the record about this stuff because all it does is,
you know, harmed their their career.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Sorry, was the name of the running back from your house?
Speaker 8 (23:56):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
His name is Sean Alexander.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I mean if he is like a Hall of Fame candidate,
like he still doesn't want to, you know, piss off
the NFL, so like it would be like great for
him to talk to you. I also understand why he
don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah, like there's doing the right thing.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
And then there's also like the great personal cost.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, you're right, we haven't seen NFL players since.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Then, be like, well I'm gonna do it too. Yeah,
why would they?
Speaker 5 (24:25):
You know, Like I don't want to say that, like
there isn't some progress. It's easy to you know, see
how silly an end racism thing is in the end zone.
But like, I don't know, like we are, like the
league is acknowledging a racism even.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Again, Yeah that's the first time.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
So that's progress. The league so like funnels you in
a certain form of activism that.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
They find appropriate.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, they find appropriate. And I actually think the
even if you know, like some of the phrasing is
stuff like you might find at a march, it's easy
to tune out because it's on the back of everyone's helmet,
and once you start seeing the same thing everywhere, like
it's no longer a form of agitation, you know, which
just washes over you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I feel like the path for activism tends to be
to get noticed from media and then from there, you know,
try and get the message out that way. But yeah,
there's kind of like no silver bullet for this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I wanted Sean Alexander to be my silver bullet so badly,
But I know that's not fair. He's his own person
and has his own motivations. Maybe he wants to run
for public office someday. He likely values the support of
the community for his philanthropic projects and doesn't want to
risk alienating them. Or perhaps it's because he's been unfairly
overlooked for the Football Hall of Fame for the last decade,
(25:37):
and at this point his priority is preserving his athletic
legacy and wants to steer clear of social or political
debates that could overshadow his achievements or complicate his legacy.
But this is sports, and as much as people wanted
to just be about what happens on the field, it's
about more than that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
You know.
Speaker 9 (25:55):
The truth is that sports and politics have always mixed. Sports,
policy takes race, gender, culture always have mixed, you know together.
I mean, Jackie Robinson integrated Major League Baseball in nineteen
forty seven. That was twenty years before we got the
Civil Rights Act, Okay, And it's like often sports has
been placed in the intersection of these monumental changes, if
(26:16):
not led the way when it comes to change.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
This is Jamel Hill, influential American sports journalist known for
her dynamic career at ESPN, where she co hosted Sports Center.
Hill made headlines in twenty seventeen for outspoken criticism of
President Donald Trump, calling him a white supremacist on Twitter
after its infamous good people on both sides press conference.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
It was only bad people on one side.
Speaker 9 (26:38):
Those are the people that came to charlettes Field, Virginia
with the intentions to spread Hey. I called the President
on Twitter a white supremacist, and as they say, life
took on. You know, my life took on something of
its own. You know, I'm a sports center anchor.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's not where.
Speaker 9 (26:56):
That's not the type of fanticism what would expect from
a sports center anchor. And granted I did not say
this on air, despite people believing that I did. I
said this on my Twitter account in reply to someone
else who was defending Trump, defending white supremacists, and so
I got into a back and forth. Those tweets blew
up became an international story. The President called me out
(27:17):
and said that I should be fired. Sarah Huckabee Sanders,
who was his press secretary, said the same thing at
a White House press brief raing, So it kind of
took my name out of the realm of sports and
put it into politics. And even though I've been interested
in politics my whole career, my main foothold is my
main thing is sports. I've been a sports writer for
almost thirty years now. So you know, I left ESPN
(27:40):
in twenty eighteen. The network was in a very uncomfortable
spot after what I said, and it just felt like
our relationship had kind of run its course. And I've
done everything there. It was other things I wanted to
do with my career. I certainly wanted to get into
some of the behind the scenes stuff that I'm doing now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The Unite the Right rally was in August twenty seventeen,
and Trump stated and Timber twenty seventeen that NFL owners
should fire players who kneel during the national anthem, like
Colin Kaepernick. The intersection of race, sports and politics was inescapable.
Speaker 9 (28:11):
When you think about how the NFL has to wear
that stain of what they did to him, because I
don't think it'll ever be forgotten. You exiled somebody who
only was speaking up for what is a humanitarian cause.
You know, police brutality is something we should all be against.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right.
Speaker 9 (28:29):
That doesn't have a side. It's like, no, you shouldn't
have the people who are paid to protect. You should
have unfettered, unchecked authority to brutalize, demean, sometimes kill the
citizens they are supposed to protect. But if you think
about historically how he's going to be remembered, there's the upside. Now,
he didn't do it for that because he's not that
(28:50):
kind of He's not that kind of person. It's why
you haven't heard him talk very much to the media
since it's happened. You haven't seen him out like he
that's not what he does. He prefers to do the
work and make the impact that way. And I understand
that a lot of athletes look at it as well,
what if I, you know what if I piss off brands?
(29:10):
What if I you know what if marketers don't want
to deal with me? And yeah, that's going to be
part of the risk.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
But Jamel thinks that things are changing.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I do think the sports audience has changed.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
I think they now, especially younger people, they kind of
want to know what these athletes are about, Like they
want to know, do you stand for something? Or are
you just about making money or what are you doing
beyond that? And part of the reason why I think
that demand is being made more by sports fans is
because of somebody like Colin Kaepernick, is because of somebody
(29:42):
like Lebron James, who's also been equally outspoken. And I
know Lebron is in a different position because he doesn't
want to work with Gobron right, so he's going to
get a level of protection that's in there. But I
do think that there is a lot more openness for
it to be done. What I have enjoyed about covering
this generation of athletes is that I don't think that
(30:05):
they are necessarily following that model that sort of Michael
Jortan gave for the blueprint of the athletes in the nineties.
The Republicans blast shoes too. I don't think that today's
athlete is really doing that. I mean, that's gen Z
in general. It's like they you know, they're very they're
very outspoken with how they feel about things, and I
think that's overall, that's like a very good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Jamel Hill is the ideal person to weigh in on
both our fight for the Rebel change and Sean silence,
while I only dealt with Judy death Ridge. Jamal stood
up to a president. Plus she has a deep understanding
of athletes in the worlds they navigate, at least.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
In talking to I don't think that speaking out is
something that is required for every athlete. It is something
that not every athlete is equipped to do because I's
some athletes speaking.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I'm like, you could have really been quiet, but that's okay, right,
like you a big one silence was an option.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
Okay, I'm okay if you pass the mic, you know.
So I think we have to be careful in assuming
that everybody's equipped to do it, and part of being
equipped to do it means that you have to be
mentally ready for the backlash. Sometimes what prevents people from
speaking out is just feeling ostracized, because then people know like, oh,
(31:26):
you're one of those uh you just you speak out,
you have opinions, you you're gonna make us challenge something,
you know, especially when it comes to mascots.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I mean, asked Washington fans how they feel about when
their's changed.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
I mean people have this or even Kansas City Jee's
fans we've been called out about, you know, their behavior
at games and the disrespect of the of the Native
American and Indigenous communities. People are hesitant to change even
though they're wrong as hell. And when you become the
person who speaks out against something, especially that's something they
(32:00):
look at as traditional, can it can go bad. And
you know, even though Sean may not be playing, And
I'm not trying to make excuses from because I definitely
I get torn about this when I asked, like, should
athletes speak up? Because generally they are afforded with a platform,
with a certain amount of privilege that most people don't
(32:22):
have and I certainly come from. For me as a
as a journalist is one of the big reasons I
became one. It's like your whole, your whole ideology should
be you're supposed to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We learn that a journalism school, that is the job.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Right with athletes, that's not necessarily the job, but they
are in a special position, especially as a black athlete,
and especially to be able to have some conversations with
some people who might not ordinarily understand why something is wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
They're in a unique position.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
But even after they have moved on from the game,
there's still business opportunities, there's still alumni connections, there's still
other things that they have to consider, and maybe it's
just something even though his voice could be very positive
and impacting change, maybe it's something he's just not comfortable
with because thinking about.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
The blowback feels like too much.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
So, you know, I hope that it's something that Sean
Alexander maybe thinks about. And maybe because you are, you know,
advocating for him to say something, maybe it's something that
eventually he will. I mean, I hope he does, you know, personally,
because this, you know, the truth is like it just
(33:45):
sort of speaks to of the many things that are
wrong in this country, is that we don't denounce our racism.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
We build monuments to it.
Speaker 9 (33:53):
And so that's the part that I hope Sean thinks about,
is that this is about a larger concept of why
we still are having trouble atoning from one of the
greatest sins this nation has ever committed.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Very young. If some of you are thinking Sean is
just a private person, maybe he doesn't want to be
involved with the media anymore, consider this. Sean has been
a guest on a few football podcasts just this past year,
and there have been numerous write ups about him not
yet being in the Hall of Fame despite being nominated
multiple times. Sean, if you're listening, let me say this Clearly,
(34:37):
your career alone is Hall of Fame worthy, but you
have a chance to be remembered for something equally significant,
one that resonates deeply with every student in your hometown
who has felt overlooked. Did you know the Seahawks got
their name after a public naming contest with more than
twenty thousand entries. I bet you anything that if we
got the school to give entries, you'd be the perfect
(34:59):
person to pick the winner. Anyway, all that to say,
the door is always open. Just feel free to reach out.
I'm on all the socials. Hit us up at our
email Rebelspirit podcasts at gmail dot com. Truly, however you
want to get in touch, we will be so happy
to talk more with you. Even without Sewn Alexander, I
(35:20):
was determined to continue my journey and actually speak to
the school board about making this change. So in December
of twenty twenty three, just before the holidays, me and
my producers decided to spend one more week in Florence
and officially make our case in front of both the
school board and the BCHS School based decision making counsel.
Get ready for some impassioned speeches coming up next week.
(35:47):
Rebel Spirit is a production of ninth Planet Audio and
association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by me Akila Hughes.
I'm also an executive producer and the host produced.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
By Dan Sinker. Josie A. Zahm Our.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Sun,
Sound design and mixing by Josie A. Zahmb Our. Theme
song is all the Things I Couldn't Say, performed by
Bussy and the Bass, courtesy of Arts and Crafts Productions, Inc.
Our production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator is
Anna Sun Andshine. Production accounting by Dilfried Singh. Additional research
(36:24):
support from Janice Dillard. Executive producers for ninth Planet Audio
are Elizabeth Baquet and Jimmy Miller. Special thanks to Jay
Becker and the whole team at BLDG, the Florence y'alls,
Amber Hoffmann, Hillary Delaney, and Leslie Chambers.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
If you have a.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Racist mascot at your high school or are an alumni
of a high school with a racist mascot and want
to share your own experience. Please email us at Rebel
Spirit podcast at gmail dot com. We would love to
hear from you
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