Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey y'all. Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red
Table that I'm Tracy t row and on Carl Presley.
How are you feeling the day's Tracy? You sound successful?
You know what? I am successful and every day amazing.
I am so glad to be here. We have this
fantastic opportunity to talk about this wonderful episode. Today's episode.
Jamal Halls, Oh wow, I love Jamale Hill. I remember
(00:25):
when they came on a few seasons ago with Carrie Champions,
she came on together. It was very nice to just
hear her story. Who are you? How did you feel
about it? So much to unpack it? This episode was
just sweet to me. It was just endearing, especially because
her mom was on with her. Just think about the
(00:47):
sweetness of that and that they were so open and
so loving. You could just feel like the warmth at
the table and to have Denise and Jamal and then
Gammy and Willow and Jade uh and you know, it
was just beautiful. It really was. What did you think?
I thought it was amazing. I thought it was very touching.
I thought it was successful. Again, it was just very
(01:08):
nice to hear Jamal's story from her from her mouth,
Like it's interesting when the book released comes out right
thanks to Audible, you can hear it now read in
people's right. But I love to just hear the backstory too,
or hear the parts that really stuck out to them.
You just feel like you're getting closer with them. Yeah.
I consider Jamale Hill of Pure g So the fact
(01:31):
that she was able to come and share even more
of her story now that she has to memoir out,
it's like, wow, I had no idea. The biggest part
of it to me, though, Kyra, was that she and
her mom were able to do this together. I feel
like everyone's journey with their mother is just completely different,
and like Willow Janda Game, they already started to show
us with their own stories, Hey y'all, we are far
(01:54):
from traditional and we're getting through it. How are you
getting through it? So just every single week there's another connection,
another opportunity to see, Hey, we're not doing it wrong.
We're just doing life with each other out here, and
it's just reminded us how our relationship is, Like, how
is your relationship right now with your mother? I thought
about my mom a lot, saying Jamal with her mom,
(02:15):
Denise and what would we do at the red table?
How would that go for us at the red table?
And my mom is very much a talker, but there's
something like a truth serum that happens at that red table.
So it would be interesting to see you right, how
many people up said that, Like, I don't know how
you just start taking out the blue right, what happens
at this table? This table has power. It would be
(02:36):
interesting for me to see, you know, how our conversation
would go, because we talk all the time, but there's
something different about the table. I think that, given the opportunity,
would be a cathartic experience. What about you? You know,
me and my mother are I feel like our relationships
constantly evolving. I told you guys, like earlier in the season,
how we did an event where I wanted to learn
(02:59):
from her again, right, she's a floor, So she did
some flower rangements and we did an exercise of naming
that arrangement after you to learn how to take care
of yourselves. And we're actually going to a retreat to
do it again. So again we're like growing closer all
the time now on having more conversations. But through episodes
like this, I realized maybe I don't need to know
a little bit more about your story, so right, And
(03:21):
you know, my mom has been battling cancer for the
last year and a half, and so it's amazing to
see the resilience and her absolute determination and grit. It's
a whole another level of respect that I have for her.
And she just rang the bell and so I'm so
proud of her and all that she's gone through. We're
still on course and we're still in the journey, but
(03:43):
I'm just grateful that she has a warrior spirit, right, absolutely,
warrior spirit. Shout out to to her the survivor. My
mom went through her issue last year as well. They
caught something early and she had a few rounds of radiation,
so she wrung her bell as well. But it's like
you're just still you kind of wait to see what's
going to happen, but just you recognize that every moment
(04:03):
we have them is just every moment. Now it's time
for us to share what our online Red Table Talk
community has to say about this episode. We'd love hearing
from our community, so come on, go ahead and read
what Kenya Simmons had to say to kick it off.
Kenya Simmons said, when Gammy broke down, I did too.
(04:24):
You could feel her remorse. This was a good episode.
Completely agree. Just like Gammy said, It's like a back
and forth that you go through, just as far as
what your life entailed and the things you take your
children through. It's interesting to watch them in real time
give us these episodes and share their transparent feelings because
(04:45):
you can't fake that. So shut out to give me
for constantly being transparent with us, she keeps it on real.
Jennifer Bauer, you gave us some fantastic feedback, you said,
thank you for our t T. I felt this episode
in the depths of my soul. I have been working
so hard, but especially for the last three and a
(05:07):
half years, to break my family's generational curses. Oh wow,
this episode described my mother and my relationship to a t.
Thank you for this with the heart emoji. Jennifer, thank you.
We appreciate your comment, and I'm so grateful to hear
that you're and your mother's relationship his healing and going
(05:28):
through and you're breaking those generational curses. So important. Absolutely,
my ro orty says man, oh Man, this one hit hard.
Trying to figure out how to talk to my baby
girl about this. Oh man, how do I even start
That part of the episode where Jamal shared how she
got out of her own situation because her mother had
shared her situation, and the fact that she knew how
(05:50):
to fight or knew to fight, the fact that she
knew that this energy just wasn't right, like she knew
the signs so heartbreaking because it shows you how quickly
something could happen. Yeah, that's so true. I don't know
what you say to your baby girl, Myra. Good luck
to you and thank you for giving us your comment.
(06:10):
Kiandra Darl said this episode hit hard. I have a
complicated relationship with my mother due to traumas I have experienced.
This helped me to see I am not alone. Thanks
our t T. Keep up the amazing work, Red Heart emojing. Oh.
So many traumas, so many traumas, so many traumas. But
(06:34):
I'm glad we're to be able to figure it all out. Well,
at least address it and acknowledge it. Yeah, at least
start somewhere. We're going to take a quick break, but
when we get back, we're really going to dive into
this interview with Jamal Hill, So stay tuned. This is
(06:59):
the part of the show where we reveal which moments
made us pause, rewind, and listen again. Why what, Wait what?
I'll kick it off, go ahead. First of all, I
loved hearing that this was Jamale's mother's first interview. Jamal
(07:22):
and her mom have never sat down for an interview together.
We are so honored that they're doing it at the table.
So jamalte introduced us to your well, I guess um,
it feels like a worldwide debut. Everybody can meet my mom,
Denise listen. Denise was so successful. She knew she was
(07:43):
doing and she did, and she carried on the conversation
and she was accountable, and she was able to share
that moment with her baby girl, especially after she shared
that she didn't know if her daughter needed her or
she didn't know if if she had a like maybe
a successful place in her life. But you do have
a place. Your daughter does need you, and that conversation
(08:05):
was necessaryus. So I enjoyed that they were able to
go through this together. If you and your mom were
doing an interview together, what story would you too tell? Tracy?
Oh gosh, there's so many I can tell you. My mom.
One of the first stories that my mom tells people
about me when she meets them and they know me
and she hasn't met him is the story when I
was in the second grade. I'm confident that would be
(08:27):
the story she tells. And it was a trauma, but
it wasn't when I experienced. It was one that I
tried to circumvent on behalf of someone. In the second grade,
there was one of my students, one of my peer students,
was in a swing and a little boy came and
pushed her out of the swing. And I wasn't having
I was not having about second grade Tracy Brow. And
(08:48):
the little girl fell and hurt her arm. She was
crying and she was being a little bit dramatic. So
the first thing I did is i'd monished the little
boy and told him wrong. I didn't use the word
bully because we didn't know that, but I was like,
you're wrong, inappropriate, don't do that. And then I went
over to the little girl and I said, and this
is what my mom loves to say, I told a
little girl bear the pain and spare the tears. But
(09:14):
now such wise words. Well, and I don't know, you know,
it was they were strong because it wasn't necessarily one
that was a healing and a comforting, empathetic kind of word.
But I was telling her, you gotta be strong here,
stand up for yourself. But what my mom would do
if we were at the table with that story car,
she would literally say what she said to one of
(09:35):
my dear friends, that the little girl fell, broke her arm,
her radio, all nerves were out of her skin, and
like I immediately triazed her and did surgery in the yard.
It would be like I was a superhero, tramatic. But
I understand the energy if Tracy's moment is like Tracy,
because it's the story telling from me, and I could
(09:58):
see you, Tracy on the playground now, like you sitting
time out. It was very much like playground. What about you?
What would be the story you and your mom would share.
I don't know what story my mom tells when my
name comes up. I have no idea. I don't know
what that story would be. There's an opportunity, there isn't
There There is an opportunity I would need to ask.
(10:21):
I know my dad before I left the government, it
was my daughter works for the government. Your job is
their accomplishment. So what is it? But we should have
to ask were about to ask me? So she would
you want her to say what I want? I don't know,
because I really do want to know her perspective. I
don't I don't want to give her a story she
was talking about I don't know. Immediately comes to mind
(10:41):
as I was talkative in school. To hear some of
those story. I can only imagine the things I have forgotten. Yeah,
isn't that something? Well, we may have an opportunity, we
may have to replicate that. So, now do you know
your mom's story? Car? Do I know my mom's story?
I know pieces of my mom's story, and I know
things that have come up situationally, right Like you're talking
(11:03):
to your mom randomly and you're like, oh, man, I'm
going through X Y Z and she's, oh, I went
through that too, Really, because you could have definitely shared
it a little bit earlier than in my mom. But
as fine, as long as the stories are coming out,
it's always good to hear. So has she shared as
deeply like Denise did with Jamale? Not that if my
(11:24):
mom has that form of trauma? Not? Not at all?
Have we shared that deeply? But I feel like we've
shared some deep things, right, so as far as like
the bond and and just parts of her journey as
a woman, I feel like I know some of those. So, yeah,
what about you? Do you know your mom's story? I
can tell you that I do know my mom's story. Thankfully,
(11:45):
she did not have drug abuse as part of her story,
but there were some things that she shared with me
that were definitely traumatic in her life and it was
really difficult for me to hear it, and it helped
shape who she is and and that city. But her
sharing it also made us closer, but it was hard
to sit in it. It was hard to to process it.
(12:07):
Some of the hardships that she encountered were being a
black woman in her time, and it was difficult to hear.
But it did help me. I can tell you that
it affected my life in a way that gave me
a voice. And because she had experienced those traumas, she
was really truly a pillar for me, so that when
(12:29):
I had the opportunity to speak up and speak out,
I could because I knew that she was going to
back me up. And so I'm grateful for that. Another
fantastic weight what moment in this episode was Jada saying
Jamal needed to experience adversity to get where she is today.
Jada said, and I would imagine you correct me if
I'm wrong. The places that Jamal has been and what
(12:51):
she's had to deal with, she might not have been
able to do that without the level of adversity that
she had as a child. Now this it's interesting to me,
So I want to know from you first, do you
agree or disagree with that state? You know, I want
to believe that I agree with it at the same time,
at the same time, a part of me, it's not
(13:15):
sure if that is something that we say as black
people to justify the trials and tribulations we go through overall,
like just to end all be all form of a statement.
So I do believe portions of it. And I loved
the part of this show where the therapist at the
end says, we don't come here blank. Your temperament and
who you are and all of those things are in
(13:36):
alignment and coordinate with your trials and tribulations as well
to get you on the other side. So again, like
even Jada's tenacity and her sassiness could not have gotten
her through Gammy in a different world to play that characters,
certain things are in alignment, but the statement itself, I
feel like it's a little blanket like nonetheless possibly true,
(13:57):
I feel like it's blanketed. But that's me. What about you?
How you feel about this? Well? Okay, so I get
your point. I get your point. The key word in
here for me is that they need that they needed
to have gone through it. If you had not experienced
that type of adversity, maybe you wouldn't have been able
to prepare yourself what I think it is. And this
(14:21):
may sound like a real kind of neutral response because
I think there's value in what Jada said and merit
in her words. Then, however, come apart from me, is
I think that it is true that all of us,
in the adversities that we experience, can help shape us,
right if we take it and use it as a
tool to truly shape us. Because sometimes adversity, and we
(14:44):
see this with people, sometimes adversity will break a soul
down to the last compound and give them absolute helplessness
and make them unable to perform and reach forward their
goals and have that tenactity. So it's interesting adversity I
think can be a double edged sword. I think that
it can make you hyper focused. I think it can
(15:06):
make you hyper independent. But remember Jada also said in
a previous episode that she was frozen and she's a thawing, right,
And I think part of the young dawing is also
from all of the adversity. So the trump happened to
be so cold, just frozen. This is not just a
still moment in time. She was cold for one day
(15:27):
and got back to herself. So, like you said, like
some of these adversities have long term effects and then
you don't come here blank right, So your temperament definitely
plays into what you can and can't handle or how
you get through things. So yeah, it was a way
what because I was like, Okay, that's good. But I
think it also lets the mothers off the hook. I
(15:49):
think that was a way for them to say, let
me give you, give you a little bit of grace
here and say if we hadn't gone through that, we
wouldn't have been able to achieve this kind of success. Mmmmmm.
I like that. Well. One of the other way What
moments was Denise revealing that it was her idea for
Jamale to see therapy. That's the point I started the
book is that about how I started going to therapy
(16:11):
because my mother said, I think you're angry and you
just don't know you're angry, and maybe you need to
see somebody. I'm like, what are you talking about? And
so I was like, well, maybe I shall start saying
somebody just to see if this is true? What the
way to go older generation, because we do not hear
that often. This was wait, what for real? But I
(16:35):
think it also speaks to how Denise knew I might
have messed you up a little bit. I was really
I was really to the left. I need you to
just just go and see and make sure you are straight.
Do you have older family members to Tracy who encouraged
therapy or who go to therapy themselves that you know?
This is interesting? This is such a good question. So
(16:56):
shout out to the baby Boomers and the ones that
came before in the Great Generation, because therapy was not
part of their vernacular. Right for Denise to be in
a position to say to her daughter, you may need
to get therapy, that was a way what for me?
I mean, true, you're angry, I think you may be.
(17:17):
She was able pinpointed, and she was what do you mean,
I'm not angry, and so I love that. And so
for me, I'm trying to think in my family, there
may be a couple of people that are in that
generation in my family who would consider and maybe one
other who has actually experienced therapy, But for the rest
(17:40):
of them, no way, no way, because they were having
to be tough. I had time to go talk about
your feelings. How do you feel? You feel like you
got a job you need to go to in the morning.
It's true, that's true. I mean, plus they it was
the having to stop and go talk to someone or
(18:02):
solve a problem that I had to face anyway. So
and then in that in that generation, here's the reality. Car,
I'm not going to tell no white person my problem.
That part I wasn't even us around to too. So
that's the other part of it. And what happens in
my house stays in my hear you know, there's just
a secrecy, there is a privacy that this new generation
is just more open to that. Well wait, what was wait? What? Wait?
(18:26):
What sure? What did you think of this episode? Off? Oh?
I cried, I cried. I cried with Gammy. I cried
with Gammy. Just how she got choked up. I didn't
(18:48):
cry the entire episode. Had We've had some episodes where
you could ride from beginning to end, But when Gammy
got choked up, I was like, oh, Gammy, Yeah, I saw,
I saw the doors. I saw Jamal and Jada ready
to help their mothers if they got two emotional. That's
what I saw. I saw Willow trying to make sure
(19:09):
she don't repeat any of these patterns. That's what I saw. Okay,
Now there's such a that's such a valid point that
part was observing. Like Willow was at the feet of
Masters and she said, you know what, I know that
I know I need to be quiet right now and
just take this in because a child's place, right and
(19:30):
like she was welcome and od she is just number
one Willows just beyond her years, open and hearing perspectives,
knowing that if I was in that this could have been.
And also I feel like she was definitely aware that
even though my mother's like celebrity is not a negative trauma,
it is a different lifestyle that impacts me different than others.
(19:52):
And now we can just all have different perspectives and
and experiences and ups and downs. So it was nice
to see all the transparency at the table. I enjoyed it.
All the mother and daughter connection in this episode. It
was truly the gift. And I can tell you the
other thing that made me cry how amazingly connected Gammy
(20:14):
and Denise were, how they were checking in with each other,
let me make sure, let me you got this. I
thought that was phenomenal. I thought that was What did
you think about that? Yeah? What did you think? Car?
It was like the unspoken moments for me, right, feel
like that happens a lot in our Black language. All
it takes is a look where you can look at
the woman next to you and be like, mm hmmmm,
(20:37):
I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly how
that felt. And I think it's interesting for our culture
because rarely could we speak. So now that we're allowed
to have the language and use the language and share
the language and the knowledge, we see how far it
transcends across families. This is not just Oh, two women
with addiction who decided to come to the table today
(20:59):
like he didn't plan right, journeys being the same, and
it's amazing how their journeys were different but so aligned
and so much alife and that he was like at
one point and he said, well did you feel this?
And game it was like what about this? Were you?
And I just I love that. I love that they
were able to not have any shame, to not be
ashamed that you are recovering addict and not be ashamed
(21:21):
that you were at this table and that you had
your choices affected your daughter. So I'm grateful for that
that part, that part well in affected and I mean
in both negative and positive ways. We're talking about two
uber successful women. This is not a mistake, so they
definitely put in the work. Speaking of work, Cara, you
computed four hours both ways for ten years to crush
(21:46):
it at your government job. How did your family support
you in your pursuit in your high demand career. Shout
out to the family support man. I have my brothers
supporting me. I have one brother's passed, but I had
three brothers and three sisters, so I have a big family.
But we're not close because I am the baby, right,
So they support and just if I say I needed,
we're gonna all figure it out. So that was exciting
(22:08):
and nice to see and and I appreciate that part
of my life because it allowed my son to to
also see like what I was going through to get
to work. So now that he has a nice little job, holleylup,
how far how much was gashed back then? Right? Right?
But during the entire Obama administration, So so it was
too that's a lot. That's a lot of two hours
(22:30):
up two hours back, right, but it was it was
worth a shout out to them for supporting me and
my friends, for sure. They definitely Yeah, I was gonna
ask you, however, your friends and family encourage you as
you're now making this career shift, you know, shout out
to them as well, because of course, before I left
the government, I was doing small side hustle jobs. Man,
let me tell you if you're if your friends are
(22:51):
out there selling candles, selling journals like I was, or
doing stand up comedy like I also was, please go
to the show, Please go to the pop up an event.
It please just it's not even about buying. It's just
about seeing somebody they know in the crowd, asking them
what their prices are, who asking them how they're feeling.
And please know that they are probably doing this to
(23:12):
help stay in a positive mental space regardless of what's
going on in their life. So shout out to my
friends and family for helping me, because they helped keep
me empowered right and remind me that, yes, I was
making great decisions. They're continuing to help me as I
shift into this and I know they are listening to
this podcast episode. So hey, family and friends, I love y'all. Yeah,
and I'm just excited about about where things are going.
(23:33):
But I definitely couldn't have any of it without them, alright,
So I know I'm not the only one right who's
working hard and doing successful things. So, Tracy, how did
you keep from getting imposter syndrome and work and just
in life in general? How's your family supported you on that?
Oh gosh, oh wow, imposter syndrome that you know how
(23:54):
experienced it even of course, of course, I mean if
you have any measure of success, however it's measured because
it's so relative, right that you wonder at some point
is this right? Am I real? And because you do
the fake it till you make it so much that
you have to say, okay, wait a second, let me
just take stock and inventory here, let me self assessed. So, yes,
(24:17):
I have definitely felt imposter syndrome and at work, especially
because there is the balance of you got a code
switch and balancing who I am and knowing who I am.
So it has been a roller coaster ride. But now
I can tell you in life in general, I knew
I was that girl, just it was at work that
(24:39):
you have to make sure you know your your way
and navigate through from a corporate environment as a black
woman that's outspoken, there's a lot that can be associated
with that. So and it can and do you feel
like you coach witch? I definitely was one of the ones.
The car you see is the car you get baby
voice all that, Oh no, ma'am, the level of professionalism,
(25:01):
but this is more no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no is it? I mean I was a cold Oh
my gosh. I mean I'm I'm much more neutral now,
but I was a colde switching queen. What are you
talking about? Oh my gosh, Colin. Yes, I've definitely been
a black sheet. That's why it was difficult when I
(25:23):
moved up, because I just they're like, you moved up
acting like that, Yes, traditionally authentically myself. Yes, I did well.
I was authentically cold and and you know that's okay.
Now you brought up a good point. Here's another good point.
I wasn't being a false image of myself in the codes.
It was just the tone. It was just filter. It's
like filter on, filter off. And so that's how I
(25:45):
envisioned code switching, which can often confuse people when they
think about the imposter syndrome part, am I really doing this?
Is this really me? Or is this somebody that I'm
playing like I'm acting like this because I have this
filter on? But no, I'm still very much authentically me too.
I just knew that certain things would and would not
be received well and talk about this all the time.
(26:08):
This is also and that's why I think I initially
got offended by code switching at first. Was I'm like,
what do you mean, I'm cold switching because in my mind,
this is a survival thing. Nobody can come in at
the level I was in the government and speak in
the way you think I should speak at the football
house on Sunday. I just need you don't understand that
it just doesn't work that way for the level of government.
(26:31):
I was, how did you still being me? Because it's
the narrative that you put in your head. So that's
what I was saying, like, I still it was just
my tone that was changing. It's actually this voice I'm
using right now. I just wasn't saying a whole bunch
of you know what I'm talking about. It's just the
language changed, So I didn't. I never saw this code switching.
I saw this surviving. But now that I understand the
(26:51):
narrative a little bit more and what that can feel
like the differences, some people will hear my change in
tone and assume it's not me. So that's the part
I feel like it's being understood more in this day
and time, that yes, this can be authentically you and
you can't have a professional voice in a professional space.
Well you know, you talk about your voice and saying like,
how did you get to this level in the job
(27:14):
where you were in your government position? How as the
only black woman in that male dominated workplace did you
manage working there? I had to be me because there
were certain assumptions that preceded me that I had to
constantly debunk in different ways. That is exhausting. That is exhausting.
(27:37):
I have a few examples, but I literally had a
snowstorm one time at work and I told them that
the power was out, I can't work. We're on the phone.
I can't work, so I'll let y'all know when it's
back on. The acting boss at the time called the
acting director and said, I don't think the snows is
bad in her area. She thinks I'm not sure if
(27:58):
her cable is really out perfect time, and my director said,
are you saying what I think you're saying? Like insinuating
that I'm the one lying, And at that moment my
director was like, what car has been saying? It's true,
because I was like, it's like they're picking on me.
Of course, people get annoyed or they get they get
scared when you bring up the racist word in the
corporate workplace. But I had to start using elementary words
(28:21):
so y'all can hear me. I'm being picked on. I
don't know what else to say to you because y'all
act like y'all not understanding what I'm saying. But yeah,
I had to be very authentic and who I wasn't
just I had to say a lot of prayers reminding
myself who I was when I walked into work. That's
where that imposter syndrome as well. That piece plays apart
speaking of being authentic and staying true to who you are. Tracy,
(28:45):
how do you make your voice heard when you know
others might have a hard time listening you. I go
back to what I said about the trauma my mom
experienced and her not being allowed to have her voice
and not being heard. Intentionally, sometimes people pretend not to
hear you, like accidentally on purpose, didn't hear what you said.
(29:06):
And so I experienced that. And one of the things that,
thankfully because I went to school for communications, so there
was some training behind the method, right. But what I
use and I still use this now, is I will
literally lock eyeballs with someone when they're talking. And for
(29:29):
whatever reason, that can be intimidating the people, and it's not.
It wasn't meant to be intimidating. It was meant to
let you know I am intentionally, purposefully, actively listening to you.
So when you finish saying your point, I'm going to
acknowledge it, affirm it, and then I'm going to say
what I want to say, and then if it's glossed over,
(29:52):
I will come back to it and I will be
like a dog with a bone. And that is how
for people who have had a hard time air quotes.
Hearing me and listening to the words that are coming
out of my mouth. I ensure that I am clear
and I am articulating and so that they can process.
And then most times in the hard time listening, I
(30:15):
will finish with a question did you understand what I said?
Or do you have any questions? So then you can't
act like you didn't hear me. Right, It's called playing
in my face. This is what you're not gonna do.
You're not gonna act and or play in my face.
You know what I said. There are some things that
(30:36):
come as a result of that, because you there's a firmness.
First of all, my voice projects out of this world anyway.
And if I'm looking you in your face and in
your eyeballs, and I'm speaking very intentionally in the Oprah
kind of way, you know I'm talking to you. And
so then it goes from yes, I heard you. But
(30:57):
then then the supervisor has come and have a come
versation with me because you don' I'm too aggressive. Oh gosh,
I think you know what I think? A break? Okay,
so we're gonna take it. Yes, we're gonna take a
short break right now. And when we come back, we'll
talk about what the Red Table didn't. Now it's time
(31:25):
to talk about what the Red Table did not cover.
From Jamale Hill's book Uphill, We're gonna cover the top
five things. Car. Are you ready to get started with
number five? I'm excited. I'm excited. Listen. This is why
y'all need to listen to the fan We watch podcasts
and tell your friends the bonus information for me. Number five.
Jamale's mom never made more than eighteen thousand dollars a
(31:47):
year when Jamale was young, so they were on and
off welfare. As a result, Denise were allied on the
men who came in and out of her life for
basic needs. Any man she dated, either casually or seriously,
under stood that if they wanted to spend time with her,
they had to put in on something. They had to
put in on the rent or utility bills. They had
(32:08):
to put gas in her car, by the groceries for
the house, or give me a few dollars so that
I could go to the corner store for treats. How
might this example shape a person's view of romantic relationships? Tracy?
What do you think? Wow, it could create an absolute
codependent mindset, right, or a helplessness that I can't do this.
(32:34):
I absolutely have to have a man. She could have
very easily taken that and said there's no point in
me even trying to do anything on my own, or
she could have taken what she experienced and said, there's
a big fat hell no, I will never rely on
a man for anything. I got to do this for myself. Right,
(32:54):
It's amazing. You just never know which side of the
coin it's gonna land back. What do you think? I
feel like it could also create a false pepestal like
something that you would put a man on if he
did give you gas money or gave your child a
few dollars because you didn't have it, Like now you
think maybe they're supposed to do these things, and when
(33:15):
they don't and they don't love you, and that's not
even the case, that's hard. That's a hard example. Bird
Alright number four. Jamal shared that she briefly died at
age seven. She was in the backseat of a car
when a driver of an oncoming vehicle hit the gas
instead of the break. Jamal's brain swelled and her skull
(33:38):
was fractured. She remembers the lights of the other car
coming toward her, then nothing for a while until she
awoke in the hospital. She wrote, at some point my
mother held up a mirror to show me what I
looked like. Half of my head was shaved, my eyes
were swollen the size of lemons, and I had two
(33:59):
black eyes. There was a deep red scar on the
right side of my head about three or four inches
above my ear. Oh m G. Wow, that's a lot.
Died at age seven from a car accident, not mention,
and remember, of course, because at seven, you remember to
(34:19):
have looked at herself had to be the most horrifying
thing she had ever seen. Have you ever had an
accident like that as a young kid. I was in
a car accident, but I was much older. It was
before seatbelts were really mandated by law. And I hit
my head, and I remember you having a not on
my forehead and just remembering, no matter what, I'm gonna
(34:42):
put my seat butter on. The black eyes right a lot,
But it was it wasn't all that. I told my spleen,
That's all I remember. They were trying to figure out
they were going to do surgery, but they didn't, so
I still have my damaged spleen. Thank you, y'all need
to get this book because this this is amazing. Get
the book. It's a lot going on all right. Number three,
(35:05):
Jamal wrote, in general, black women hate being described as angry.
Ain't that the truth? If we're not in the mood
to be accommodating, if we want room to be unapologetic
and stand on our principles, then people view that as anger. Instead,
we're really just exercising our right to avoid nonsense. Baby,
(35:25):
she she hit that on the head. Can you share time, Tracy,
maybe when the stereotype of an angry black woman came
into play in your life? And how did you address it?
Just one time? Right, just one right? So the knee's
gonna have to be it's gonna have to be work
again because some of the things that I would experience
(35:50):
and then witness I'm an advocate for people are told
you in the second grade, I was navigating through stuff
on behalf of other people, so I would speak up,
and when I spoke up, it was amazing how offended
people were and or hurt. Well, Tracy, I felt attacked,
Like how do you feel attacked? How? How? And so
(36:13):
then if I'm asking how in that same voice, then well,
now you know you need to watch your tone. And
then if I put it in writing and I say
something very clearly, then you know it's well, you can't
hear tone and email, and so we need to be careful.
It's like, Okay, I can't win for losing here, what
do you want me to do? I can't win for losing. Yeah,
(36:35):
so I that angry black woman thing is crazy. And
that's why for the longest I would really really be
careful about not shaking my neck because I talked with
my hands, not doing a lot of gestures with my hands.
And I was really careful about that because I did
not want to come off and have people labeled me
at work or anywhere as an angry black woman. It
(36:59):
shouldn't be like that. I shouldn't be like that. I
have that work story and then some I'm actually parenting example,
because the parenting this one kind of hit a little different.
You hate to say it, but they expect you to
be angry at work, right even though you're not angry,
you're passionate or they're playing in your face. But in
the school setting, my son had a teacher not black
(37:19):
and we're halfway through the year. So any parent who
has some child who's had some challenges, you know, after
Christmas break them teachers done. Okay, but that's not my problem.
It's just your career. Anyway, she calls and it's your son,
did X y Z you need to come up here
right now. I don't know what's going on. This is ridiculous.
This is not the first time, I mean going off
and I said, are we on the same side, because
(37:43):
I haven't done anything to you. I am here to
work with you. And she was like, I can't believe
you're speaking to me this way. I mean, I'm not
sure what she heard, but even in my calmest of spaces,
she could not hear what I was saying, that the
differences we are here in the same We're on the
same side, ma'am. I'm here for you. I definitely did
(38:05):
not send him out the door to do whatever he
did this day, something that clearly I can't even remember
in this moment, but that was my point. We cannot
continue to communicate like this, like we're going to be exhausted.
And by then I was in therapy, in therapy with
my son to where the therapist told us, you're gonna
be exhausted if you're gonna try to keep up with
this one my sons above and beyond for a while.
(38:26):
Bless his heart. But the point is we have at
some point operate as adults. We can't be in the
emotional state that these children can take us into. And
when you are choosing to ignore certain facets of a person,
you will only see your assumptions. And she just assumed
I was being angry. It's so amazing, ye. She called
you to try to address it, and then it became
(38:46):
an issue with you instead of the original issue. Number two,
Jamal Hill was suspended for two weeks without pay, not
even twenty four hours after she commented on a tweet
surrounding Colin Kaepernick's silent protest where he took a knee
during the national anthem. I know y'all remember this. She
(39:07):
said that the only way the Cowboys would take disgruntled
fans seriously is that the fans stage of boycott against
their advertisers. When this first happened, I was proud. I
was proud of him. I was proud of him, and
all of that made me love Jamale. I liked her.
I had respect for her as a journalist. I thought
she was authentic, she represented black women so wonderfully. But
(39:29):
when she stood on the hill and saying I agree
and yes, yes, yes, and yes, I was right there
with her, What did you think? I'm being honest? This
is full transparency. I didn't have any thoughts at first.
That's why I actually appreciate people like Jamal, because when
I do choose to pay attention and something does catch
my attention, I want to be super informed as much
(39:52):
as I can. And I haven't been following along, I
haven't seen it in real time. I probably completely missed it.
So I definitely appreciated her stance in her perspective as
a black woman and what we go through, what we're
actually paying attention to. Some people were paying attention to
the actual sport and maybe the pay and and I
was paying attention to that social injustice piece, like Okay,
(40:13):
what does he say and what does he want? And
and I have Jamale not actually be supported, which goes
into our last moment that was even more so hurtful.
So let's talk about this. The number one moment that
the table did not talk about. Jamale suspension still wasn't
the tipping point for her to eventually decide to leave
ESPN after a tweet from Trump where he said, with
(40:34):
Jamale Hill at the mic, it is no wonder ESPN
ratings have tanked, in fact tanked so badly it is
the talk of the industry. Jamal said, I didn't care
what Trump thought of me, already thought so little of him.
Trump didn't hurt me, but ESPN's lack of response did.
A government official had come after one of its employees,
(40:55):
and it did nothing. It was then that I realized
my time at ESPN had come to an end, and
I can fully fully relate, all right. So I had
already been feeling a lack of like passion in my
government career before I left, and as a training analyst.
(41:16):
Some of you guys know this clearly, I like to talk.
But a situation happened right before I decided to leave.
I had actually been promoted to the highest level of
the government that I wanted to be in. I was
a public affairs specialist, and even after the promotion, they
decided to number one give the job to someone else
(41:37):
in front of my face. All right, had been on
a certain certain detail. They decided we're going to give
this to someone else, And when I wanted to address
another situation that came up, they said, we're not sure
what you should do. Like, I didn't feel supported. And
(41:59):
in those space, says, even after addressing my manager directly,
after talking to certain other managers, after talking across the coworkers,
certain things happen and you just realize I'm not supported here.
This must be the end of my journey, specifically the
position situation. There was a position situation. And I don't
(42:22):
think I've ever told anybody this part of the story.
But my manager at the time had previously apologized, and
to say, about five years prior before she became my
manager apologize for throwing me under the bus because she
knew that other people were doing it, so she thought
she should too. She recognized that my work ethic was
actually better, and she shouldn't have followed the other people
(42:43):
who tried to throw me under the bus, because of
course they then threw her under the bus. So after
she apologized, like again, and this is the hard place
of being in the only black person in spaces. There's
no place for me to go in HR and say hey,
this coworker came and told me this private thing because
they were actually bullying me to live admitted to bullieve
me and oh my gosh that there's no place for
(43:04):
those things. But was it awful because I'm actually living
in my dream? I know what I mean. You go
back to the adversity helped you get to appreciate, all right,
And for Jamale Hill to be attacked by the President
of the United States as an individual and an American,
it was absolutely ridiculous. Okay, that part, there's there's just
(43:29):
a part. We can have a whole another episode on that.
But because instead what we're gonna do is realized that
there are so many more moments we could discuss. But
but it is time car for us to bid our
wonderful listeners do. It's time to close the show and
(43:49):
thank you all so much for supporting though in the meantime,
always love love listening to our stories in our life.
Keep it coming right. Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you so much for sitting in at this virtual
red table. We love you, We love you. We want
to know how you're feeling about this new season a
red table talk to We're open to talk about any
(44:10):
and everything with you all, so please send in your
questions at Let's Red Table That at red table talk
dot com or leave us a voicemail at speak pipe
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so much for listening, and make sure you subscribe on
I Heart Radio app and please rate this podcast on
(44:32):
Apple Podcast. We'll be back next week for another episode
of Let's Red Table That Special. Thanks to executive producers
Jada Pinkett Smith, Valan Jethro and Ellen Racketton. Thank you
to our producer Kyla Canau and our associate producer your
Landa Chow. And a big thanks to our sound engineer,
(44:56):
Stephanie Aguilar. Let's Table. Let's do a little bit, kay,