January 28, 2021 • 34 mins
Join Will for a special Red Table Takeover when he sits down for an emotional conversation with Janet Hubert, the original Aunt Viv on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, to resolve their bitter, 30 year-long feud.🖤matt
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Table Talk Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Facebook Watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and
I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
on Apple Podcast. What's Up? This is Will Smith. I
haven't been in this seat before. This is my first
Red Table takeover. Something big happened and I want to
(00:23):
share it with you. I found myself in a bitter,
painful feud after thirty years of not speaking. There's nobody
on earth that would say I heard them that bath.
I sat with the Fresh Princes on VIV I just
wanted to know one thing why. Psychologist Dr Rominey helps
(00:45):
me figure out how I got here. You took psychological
punches from deep childhood wounds my father beat my mother
to the key things I've learned, that's not who I
want to be. How to heal broke and relationships so sound,
(01:13):
that's gonna be good here. I can try that right there?
Do to work? We think, Mike check, Mike checking to Mike,
Mike check, Mike checking my Mike, Mike Mike checking to Mike,
Mike check, Minke checking to my okay, gam doesn't do
it like that. Thank you for doing that. Thank you well,
(01:36):
thanks for having this conversation. I think it's going to
help more people than you think. Yeah, I hope. Well
that's that's what we do here. We expose ourselves in
the name of helping others. So yeah, absolutely, I haven't
been in this seat before. How does that feel? A
little Red Table takeover brought myself to the Red Table
(02:00):
to talk about something that has really troubled me for
nearly thirty years. Joining me is Dr Rominey. She's a
brilliant clinical psychologist and a trusted friend of the Red Table.
You know, this year was the thirtieth anniversary of the
Fresh Prince of bel Air, and my painful situation was
(02:24):
was around the Fresh Prince. I had a feud, a
war of words that I've been in with someone that
I never thought would get resolved, and really, until recently,
I didn't know how to even begin the process of reconciliation.
I really couldn't see myself celebrating without really dealing with this.
(02:50):
Thirty years is your whole adult that is that's a
heavy weight to carry. At one I felt like I
was on top of the world. The Fresh Prince of
bel Air was a hit. Now this is a story
all about album I Like Live. Janet Hubert was cast
(03:12):
as my aunt viv. She was thirty four years old,
an accomplished actress and dancer who had come to the
show from Broadway. At first, we were all just one big,
happy family. Those Friday night tapings were a lot of fun.
Will get wrapped up, the audience would get wrapped up well.
(03:38):
It was awesome. But as time went on, our relationship
soured and I handled it poorly. He was young, he
was out of control in his own way. He had
all this power. I was loud and it was always
twenty dudes from Philly. I hang in music. There was
(04:01):
a need for me to have professionalism on the set
because I was used to it. I wasn't sensitive, and
ultimately it felt like I wasn't kind. I would sit
in my car some nights and not want to go
to work. I felt like Janet hated me and hated
(04:22):
doing the show. The misconception of me was that I
was haughty, difficult wanted to be the star of the show.
Things got more tense and the decision was made to
reduce her role. They offered me this really bad deal.
In the third season two, I think sort of put
(04:44):
me in my place, so I said no. In season four,
Janet was replaced by Daphne Maxwell read Janet blamed me.
Then our private disagreements went public. They went to after
me like red meat. On a radio interview, I said
(05:05):
that Janet wanted it to be the Aunt viev of
bel Air show. Over the years, the war of words
escalated in Janet released this video. Will make no mistake,
this video is for you directly. No. I will not
(05:26):
go to my grave feeling that questions have been unanswered
or misconceptions of me that you put there have never
been dealt with. Nowhere that did ever say I was fired.
The only person who ever said that, Sweetie, was you.
The vomit that you spewed. I still recovered the one
(05:49):
thing and to regret and my life was ever taking
that role to have to have worked with someone like you.
I wish you had thought about my family. I wish
you had thought about the consequences of your actions. Who
I've never actually seen that. That's the first time I've
ever seen that. I've never watched it. You know, people
(06:12):
I said to me that I don't you know, they
don't don't watch that we had a cast reunion. I
wanted us to seek healing, and I knew the first
phase of that healing was me understanding what she experienced.
So I asked Janet to sit down with me, and
you know, we sat down. Dr Romney was was on
(06:35):
set with us that day in case, Janitor, I needed,
you know, some assistance to be able to make our
way through after twenty seven plus years. This is the
this is the first time that we ever sat down.
Thank you very about to eat anything at all? Let
me know, Okay, you tell me my eyes glowed like
(07:03):
a raccoon, but sometimes look spectacular better. You two, are
you sitting? This has been tough for sure? Well has
(07:33):
it been tough for you? Only you know? And I
know what the truth is about all of this. I
just wanted to know one thing, why, why so far?
You guys went so far? I lost so much. I
(07:57):
think it would be helpful for me, Like I don't
know your story, I know, I know, so talk me through.
Because I was having a different experience as the oldest
woman on that set. You know, there's that respect level
(08:18):
that I just needed to have of being an older
woman and a black woman. We had our issues. I've
been banished and they said it was you who who
banished me because I didn't laugh at your jokes. Then
they ordered me to stay in my room. I couldn't
(08:40):
come out on the stage, and I wasn't unprofessional on
the set. I just stopped talking to everybody because I
didn't know who to trust. And the whole negotiation thing
was messed up. You guys offered me something I had
to turn down, and I was like why, And did
you know that they offered me tim weeks of work
(09:01):
and said you can't work in the growls. I didn't
know specifically what the offer was, and I knew that
turned down the offer. How do you survive with a
mortgage and a new business and a new baby and
a husband who wasn't working at the time, How do
you survive? So much of what you said just destroyed?
(09:22):
And everywhere I went, everybody just beat me up. We
lost our house, I lost everything, reputation, everything. She took
all that away from me with your words. You know
words can kill, you know those words? Calling a black
woman difficult in Hollywood is the kiss of death. And
(09:44):
it's hard enough being a dark, scamed black woman in
this business, angry black woman. That's all I got. Bitter.
But what you didn't realize either, that I was going
through a lot at home. You can know, you guys
didn't know very abusive marriage. I had a new baby,
he was three months old, so I felt like there
(10:05):
was no sanctuary anywhere from me. Family disowned me, the
black community disowned me because he wanted to bring it up.
It's like, what about that freshman's thing? What about Will Smith?
What about all the you know, it just never goes away.
Black people beat my ass, They beat my son's ass.
(10:26):
Somebody smashed a cookie in my son's face and said,
your mother is a bit. People send me hateful instagrams.
Aren't you dead yet? I love Will? Why don't you
just die? It was hard, It was hard, but I
promised my dad before he left this earth, and you
know you lost your dad, that I would clear my
(10:47):
name because it's his name. And my family said, you've
ruined our name. But you're the big star, you know,
I'm just a little black bitch. M I just seed
(11:13):
some water. Do you want to walk off set? Yeah? Okay,
don't you don't you? H m hm um, it's just heavy.
(11:49):
It's just heavy, you know, and it's it's uh, it's funny.
The my body it's like my body is shaking a little.
It's like I'm trying to put some some logic to it.
But the sensation I feel is that's not who I
(12:11):
want to be and it's not how I want to
make people feel. My whole life and career is centered
on aggressively trying to make people feel the opposite of that. Okay,
all right, so you've gone to an interesting place. I
(12:33):
don't want other people to feel this way. And she's
you know, and but let's just say for one minute
with your feeling. Okay, just give me my shrink moment here,
because that's a lot to have come at you. I
felt it, you know, I felt that energy and I'm
not you, okay, And part of part of listening is
giving yourself space to process your own emotion when someone's
(12:56):
coming at you like that. So let's take a moment there.
How are you? So it's um my, my father was
violent in my house. So a part of the whole
creation of will Smith, the joking, fun silly, was to
(13:22):
make sure that my father was entertained enough not to
hurt my mother or anybody in the house. Right, So
that plucks a childhood space of inadequacy. And when when
(13:44):
someone comes at me like that, the little the little
boy is fully in that space. And I would perform
and dance and tell jokes. Right, people laughing and people
having fun was my defense mechanism. I realized the other
side of it was if I cut you bad enough,
(14:07):
you wouldn't be able to respond, okay, So but people
laughing for you, then his safety. Laughing his safety. Dad
was laughing if he was wasn't lashing out, he wasn't
hitting my mother, Okay, right. I can imagine on the
set of The Fresh Prince thirty years ago, you just
kept cracking the jokes more and more and more. It's
like Janet was Juilliard trained. Janet can sing, she can dance,
(14:35):
she can act, she's brilliant, and she was in the
parental figures. Yes, yes, yes, right, So my little boy
desperately needed her approval. Okay. But the dynamic you describe
with Dad was also it was not just approval, but
(14:56):
it was how do I keep myself safe? Harder game
to play, okay, And so you were balancing both of
those here. I need to feel safe and I need
the approval. But there were other people, since your real family,
but all those wounds were getting triggered, and so you
weren't able to be your best self. It's really interesting.
I just I just noticed now in this moment that
(15:19):
I fell right back into my family dynamic with my
television family, that I was the jokester and I was
playing and I was laughing and I needed everybody to
be joyful so I could feel safe. That's right. So
now we're understanding how you feel. But there's a there's
(15:41):
a lot of hurt there. There's a lot of resentment there.
Did you feel hurt? God? Yes, absolutely, I felt Um,
I felt threatened. That makes sense. I felt threatened. Um.
At that point in my career, the Fresh Prince of
Laire really saved my life. Right. So I had I
(16:03):
had a few years in the music business, but I
had lost all my money. I didn't pay taxes, I
was in debt to the I R S. I had
just flopped an album, you know, and the Fresh Prince
represented life. Um. So on the little boy in the
level with Janet, I needed Mommy to think I was great.
(16:28):
And then once I realized that she didn't the the
my dragon woke up. Okay, you become that little boy
in any system that feels like a family got to
stay on top on top of that. Yeah, I just realized.
It's like, oh, shoot, that was the family dynamic, Adaret.
You know. So that's a trigger and you feel it
in here and the problems. We feel it physically. So
(16:50):
it feels as real as though we were four years absolutely,
and that's what gets turned on. So the question is
how do you respond to that? Thank you for sharing
that with me. That's new information for me. I didn't
(17:11):
I know that I was years old and as a
sleep and unconscious as a human being could possibly be.
And it's it's so obvious looking with these eyes. Everything
(17:32):
was a threat to me. Why was I not you
the world? I had a dream and I was a
scared little boy. The reason I got into the business.
Everything I was trying to do, like, I was so
driven by fear and jokes and comedy alive. I just
(17:57):
swear my twenty one year old eyes could only see that.
I felt like you hated me. I hated what you did. Mhm.
I just hate it what you did. You took my
career away a thirty something. Yes, you just went too
(18:21):
far when you were younger, and I know you always
had to win. I didn't realize the power of my
words and what that would you know, how that would
affect you, and went way too far and said things
to people that would not hold that information. And then
(18:47):
once you put it in, then the machine grabs it.
Then they start putting their own spin on it. It
was all way too far on my end. When I
look back now, it's you know, it's obvious that you
were having a hard time. I have children, I've been
(19:08):
divorced and a second marriage, and you know, so it's
like I can see now the level of pain and
the level of struggle that it was for you just
to show up every day. But you're good. Tired of fighting.
(19:29):
I don't want to fight, you know that, Tina Tynter song.
I don't want to fight. Time for letting go. Absolutely,
my heart is just tired. I'm so tired from all
of this, thirty years of shunning, closure, forgiveness, move forward,
(19:54):
stop him from all the chatter. Enough enough, I've served
a thirty year sentence for sure. The person I want
to be is someone who protects you, not someone that
unleash his dogs on you. I appreciate that. I'm bitten
(20:17):
to death. I could not do a thirty year celebration
of this show and not celebrate you. Celebrate your contribution
to this show, Celebrate your contribution to my life. Okay, okay,
(20:50):
you still feel like my like I'm little, you're still
my l So we're you know, we've said some people
things about each other. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry too.
We're good, baby boy. I appreciate you. You're always a
(21:14):
baby boy. I'm always older than you. I need my
own rad table talk. I've got to say that there
was something really hit me. There is that I see
the herd of two people there. Okay, but you didn't
defend yourself. You You definitely said, listen, this was the story.
I was young, but you kept bringing it back to
(21:36):
and I said hurtful things. You kept acknowledging your roll
in it instead of just selling your narrative right, because
otherwise it becomes too feuding. Now, Yes, absolutely, I'm not
arrogant enough to think that my actions and behavior were perfect. Yes, correct,
my actions and behavior were flawed and hurtful. Probably there's
(22:00):
nobody on earth that would say I hurt them that bad,
and so that the idea of the dragon. Did you
even know you had that dragon in you at twenty one?
No recognition of that dynamic whatsoever. At one, I was
trying two be the biggest star in the world, right,
(22:26):
I was doing an album, a movie, and the TV
show every year. Why did you want to be the
biggest star in the world? Um, the same little boy?
That the same, that same thing. It was like I had.
I had a girlfriend who had cheated on me right
(22:46):
before that, and everything in my creation and design of
Will Smith was to be loved and to be safe. Right.
See that's it. Because you I asked you were you
hurt by Janet all those years ago? And you went
right to I was threatened. I was threatened. I felt
(23:07):
like you know, and I wonder how much for you
threatened and hurt or experience the same way when I
feel it in my body. My father was military, So
I don't know if if if it's my actual constitution
or if it's learned. But safety is first, and safety
(23:30):
also extends to money. M hmmm. Interesting way is that? Well,
if you have money, um, one year old mine, women
won't cheat on you. Okay, So it's one more place
to be. You're trying to find all these outside ways
to protect yoursect myself. Right, So if I'm rich, and
(23:52):
if I'm famous, and if I'm the best, then mommy
and Daddy won't be mad, just okay, everybody will be
safe and I can't get hurt. Okay, So you now
understand that to be a key element of your psychology.
You remember this will. Safety is the most elemental need
of human being has other than food, air, and water. Okay,
(24:14):
we need safety. You got robbed of some of that.
That's not how a child's life should be. Safety should
be built into the model. That kind of of disapproval
is the central greatest pain in my life, and and
(24:35):
from from women. Female disapproval, because I think because of
my dynamic with my mother is you know, as a
little boy, my my father beat my mother and I
couldn't protect her. Female disapproval is in like unbearable and
(24:59):
my body can't into it. Well, I'm hearing that female
disapproval is the loss of love absolutely, and that's I mean,
that's catastrophic. Right, What in your life continues to trigger
that unsafe feeling? Because that's your wound, will that that's
your That's absolutely my my central wound. In the last
three years, I've been seeing it and confronting it more effectively.
(25:24):
My relationship with Willow has been a major part of healing.
Willows the only female relationship I've ever had that I
didn't mess up. That's beautiful. I mean, you feel that
about your right And I'm sure there are aspects. From
(25:45):
Willow's point of view, she was saying, no, you messed
some stuff out there, you know, But in my mind, um,
I did right by her my relationship with Jade. That's
what I was going to ask you. Has your relationship
with Jada triggered that lack of safety where you feel
like you had to go into that protectivement? Yes? Absolutely,
(26:08):
Like do you still have this need to get Jada's approval?
Even this house is called her Lake Tuesday? Why did
you name it that? Because I wanted it to be
a gift to Jada for her approval. Of course, that
was a psychological crash and burn. Also, it always is,
(26:33):
always is. Success is a suit of armor. We put
it on to protect ourselves from ourselves and from the world,
because really the wind would be if this house was
called our lake. Yeah, exactly. And what I have realized
the real thing that everybody is looking for is the
(26:54):
experience of love and that can be in any house.
And howevery much money and all of that, you know,
and we don't believe that because as you say that
and you talk about money, and you're a lot of
people thinking, like, of all, you can only give them
the right gift. If I could show my old man,
I made it whatever it is. But I have you
(27:15):
know firsthand comprehension that there's not enough money to make
your relationship go right. That's right, that's right. You do
get that, okay, but you remember safety is an inside game.
Like you, Jada, can't make you feel safe. Look an't
make it. This is it has to be your sense
of safety. There's a point at which you got to
(27:35):
put the load down. You know that you have to say,
I understand where the wounds come from. Now the wounds
are mine, So you like go in some ways you
sort of start letting go of Dad, start letting go
of mom be and you realize that these become triggers,
but that you are the only person who can regulate
those those feelings. That's it. Here's the thing. Most people's
(27:56):
childhood wounds is that they weren't listened to. Absolutely, you
got to this place where you could listen, a thirty
year journey to where you could finally listen to be
the psychologist for a minute. What do you think of
the three most important parts of listening? Um, I think
(28:17):
the major major part is let them complete their story.
No debate. There's no d in love. That's right, that's right,
that's no debate. You're just going to listen thoroughly to
what their story is. It seems really simple, but it's huge.
(28:43):
You've got to ask questions about the other person's story.
I would say that's number one. And the thing that
Jada and I have that is really magical is after
they tell you the story is still not your turn,
repeat it back. That's fantastic, yes, and then validate the
(29:06):
part that's true. Wow, that must be That must feel terrible.
I get, I understand. And it's just really about never
gaslighting someone else's story. Their stories, their story, it's real,
is serving a function for them, Let them have it,
let them share it. You can receive it. It's not
a threat to you. And if it is a threat,
(29:26):
to you, then you need to go do you and
get your house in order. Exactly. That is so real.
I'm actually about to say something very idiotic. I was
gonna say, are you familiar with Mohammad Ali? Of course are?
I'm sorry about that. I have to do those with
my patience, and I'm like, you're familiar with Mohammed Ali.
You're familiar with a man? Yes you are. You know
(29:48):
how to take a part. What you did with Janet
was you took psychological punches one after the other. Okay,
that capacity was something Ali had to call of it right,
lean back on the ropes and in some ways that
almost that would exhaust his opponent. But in this case
it helped her release her pain. But we know how
I'll lead trains. I need to know how Will Smith
(30:11):
trained to learn how to take a psychological punch. So
the first thing, um is recognizing that the perception of
it as a punch is not real. Okay, good for you,
because that's that's what you know. You already got a PhD.
Right there. That's what's actually happening is someone you care
(30:35):
about is hurt and they're trying to figure out how
to feel better. A person has been injured and they're
desperately seeking some hint of loving kindness. Right, so there
(30:55):
was no punching actually happening. Good for you. And the
second part is the recognition that it's not my turn yet, right,
this is Janet's turn. That's the hard part for people
because Janet asked you why, you know, she asked you
for your why, and instead of using that as an
(31:18):
opening to talk about I was a kid, I was this,
I was at whatever you didn't do that, you sent
it back to her. I'm holding space here for you.
I want you to share. I want to hear from you.
I want to understand. I've learned through marriage, counseling, through parenting,
through thousands of hours of therapy, the other person always
(31:41):
goes first, right, seek first to understand and then to
be understood. And I made my little my little phrase
love is LUV listen, understand, validate the parts that you
agree with you. You're dead if you try to go
(32:04):
first when someone's in um an emotional space. So I
have trained myself and I have the firm belief that
you have to be able to withstand someone else's truth.
That's the punch, Yes, absolutely, and the key there is
that when you can hold space and bear witness to
(32:24):
less hurt people are going back out into the world
and less likely to do more damage. That right, there
is everything. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for opening
up well. I actually appreciate your vulnerability today. Thank you.
I know that's not easy. So now it's I'm trying
to just get comfortable in in that space. I trust
(32:47):
that that's where the kind of connection and the kind
of love that I want to experience in this lifetime.
I know it doesn't come from me defending this phantom character,
it doesn't. Thank you so much. Thank you, Janet, Thank you.
I'll text you in a minute. Thank you Jada for
letting me take over the Red Table for a little while.
(33:08):
Um this is fantasy, you know. I think I might
start doing this more often. I cannot tell you how
unbelievable and wonderful it feels. I'm so happy that's behind me.
I'm so happy that we were able to make that reconciliation.
(33:30):
It's a wound that's been healed. Alter you good. Everybody's happy?
Is everyone joyous? Has everyone let their narrative go to
join the Red Table Talk family and become a part
of the conversation. Follow us at facebook dot com slash
(33:52):
red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of
Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio,
and I Heart Radio.
Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Table Talk Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Facebook Watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and
I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
on Apple Podcast. What's Up? This is Will Smith. I
haven't been in this seat before. This is my first
Red Table takeover. Something big happened and I want to
(00:23):
share it with you. I found myself in a bitter,
painful feud after thirty years of not speaking. There's nobody
on earth that would say I heard them that bath.
I sat with the Fresh Princes on VIV I just
wanted to know one thing why. Psychologist Dr Rominey helps
(00:45):
me figure out how I got here. You took psychological
punches from deep childhood wounds my father beat my mother
to the key things I've learned, that's not who I
want to be. How to heal broke and relationships so sound,
(01:13):
that's gonna be good here. I can try that right there?
Do to work? We think, Mike check, Mike checking to Mike,
Mike check, Mike checking my Mike, Mike Mike checking to Mike,
Mike check, Minke checking to my okay, gam doesn't do
it like that. Thank you for doing that. Thank you well,
(01:36):
thanks for having this conversation. I think it's going to
help more people than you think. Yeah, I hope. Well
that's that's what we do here. We expose ourselves in
the name of helping others. So yeah, absolutely, I haven't
been in this seat before. How does that feel? A
little Red Table takeover brought myself to the Red Table
(02:00):
to talk about something that has really troubled me for
nearly thirty years. Joining me is Dr Rominey. She's a
brilliant clinical psychologist and a trusted friend of the Red Table.
You know, this year was the thirtieth anniversary of the
Fresh Prince of bel Air, and my painful situation was
(02:24):
was around the Fresh Prince. I had a feud, a
war of words that I've been in with someone that
I never thought would get resolved, and really, until recently,
I didn't know how to even begin the process of reconciliation.
I really couldn't see myself celebrating without really dealing with this.
(02:50):
Thirty years is your whole adult that is that's a
heavy weight to carry. At one I felt like I
was on top of the world. The Fresh Prince of
bel Air was a hit. Now this is a story
all about album I Like Live. Janet Hubert was cast
(03:12):
as my aunt viv. She was thirty four years old,
an accomplished actress and dancer who had come to the
show from Broadway. At first, we were all just one big,
happy family. Those Friday night tapings were a lot of fun.
Will get wrapped up, the audience would get wrapped up well.
(03:38):
It was awesome. But as time went on, our relationship
soured and I handled it poorly. He was young, he
was out of control in his own way. He had
all this power. I was loud and it was always
twenty dudes from Philly. I hang in music. There was
(04:01):
a need for me to have professionalism on the set
because I was used to it. I wasn't sensitive, and
ultimately it felt like I wasn't kind. I would sit
in my car some nights and not want to go
to work. I felt like Janet hated me and hated
(04:22):
doing the show. The misconception of me was that I
was haughty, difficult wanted to be the star of the show.
Things got more tense and the decision was made to
reduce her role. They offered me this really bad deal.
In the third season two, I think sort of put
(04:44):
me in my place, so I said no. In season four,
Janet was replaced by Daphne Maxwell read Janet blamed me.
Then our private disagreements went public. They went to after
me like red meat. On a radio interview, I said
(05:05):
that Janet wanted it to be the Aunt viev of
bel Air show. Over the years, the war of words
escalated in Janet released this video. Will make no mistake,
this video is for you directly. No. I will not
(05:26):
go to my grave feeling that questions have been unanswered
or misconceptions of me that you put there have never
been dealt with. Nowhere that did ever say I was fired.
The only person who ever said that, Sweetie, was you.
The vomit that you spewed. I still recovered the one
(05:49):
thing and to regret and my life was ever taking
that role to have to have worked with someone like you.
I wish you had thought about my family. I wish
you had thought about the consequences of your actions. Who
I've never actually seen that. That's the first time I've
ever seen that. I've never watched it. You know, people
(06:12):
I said to me that I don't you know, they
don't don't watch that we had a cast reunion. I
wanted us to seek healing, and I knew the first
phase of that healing was me understanding what she experienced.
So I asked Janet to sit down with me, and
you know, we sat down. Dr Romney was was on
(06:35):
set with us that day in case, Janitor, I needed,
you know, some assistance to be able to make our
way through after twenty seven plus years. This is the
this is the first time that we ever sat down.
Thank you very about to eat anything at all? Let
me know, Okay, you tell me my eyes glowed like
(07:03):
a raccoon, but sometimes look spectacular better. You two, are
you sitting? This has been tough for sure? Well has
(07:33):
it been tough for you? Only you know? And I
know what the truth is about all of this. I
just wanted to know one thing, why, why so far?
You guys went so far? I lost so much. I
(07:57):
think it would be helpful for me, Like I don't
know your story, I know, I know, so talk me through.
Because I was having a different experience as the oldest
woman on that set. You know, there's that respect level
(08:18):
that I just needed to have of being an older
woman and a black woman. We had our issues. I've
been banished and they said it was you who who
banished me because I didn't laugh at your jokes. Then
they ordered me to stay in my room. I couldn't
(08:40):
come out on the stage, and I wasn't unprofessional on
the set. I just stopped talking to everybody because I
didn't know who to trust. And the whole negotiation thing
was messed up. You guys offered me something I had
to turn down, and I was like why, And did
you know that they offered me tim weeks of work
(09:01):
and said you can't work in the growls. I didn't
know specifically what the offer was, and I knew that
turned down the offer. How do you survive with a
mortgage and a new business and a new baby and
a husband who wasn't working at the time, How do
you survive? So much of what you said just destroyed?
(09:22):
And everywhere I went, everybody just beat me up. We
lost our house, I lost everything, reputation, everything. She took
all that away from me with your words. You know
words can kill, you know those words? Calling a black
woman difficult in Hollywood is the kiss of death. And
(09:44):
it's hard enough being a dark, scamed black woman in
this business, angry black woman. That's all I got. Bitter.
But what you didn't realize either, that I was going
through a lot at home. You can know, you guys
didn't know very abusive marriage. I had a new baby,
he was three months old, so I felt like there
(10:05):
was no sanctuary anywhere from me. Family disowned me, the
black community disowned me because he wanted to bring it up.
It's like, what about that freshman's thing? What about Will Smith?
What about all the you know, it just never goes away.
Black people beat my ass, They beat my son's ass.
(10:26):
Somebody smashed a cookie in my son's face and said,
your mother is a bit. People send me hateful instagrams.
Aren't you dead yet? I love Will? Why don't you
just die? It was hard, It was hard, but I
promised my dad before he left this earth, and you
know you lost your dad, that I would clear my
(10:47):
name because it's his name. And my family said, you've
ruined our name. But you're the big star, you know,
I'm just a little black bitch. M I just seed
(11:13):
some water. Do you want to walk off set? Yeah? Okay,
don't you don't you? H m hm um, it's just heavy.
(11:49):
It's just heavy, you know, and it's it's uh, it's funny.
The my body it's like my body is shaking a little.
It's like I'm trying to put some some logic to it.
But the sensation I feel is that's not who I
(12:11):
want to be and it's not how I want to
make people feel. My whole life and career is centered
on aggressively trying to make people feel the opposite of that. Okay,
all right, so you've gone to an interesting place. I
(12:33):
don't want other people to feel this way. And she's
you know, and but let's just say for one minute
with your feeling. Okay, just give me my shrink moment here,
because that's a lot to have come at you. I
felt it, you know, I felt that energy and I'm
not you, okay, And part of part of listening is
giving yourself space to process your own emotion when someone's
(12:56):
coming at you like that. So let's take a moment there.
How are you? So it's um my, my father was
violent in my house. So a part of the whole
creation of will Smith, the joking, fun silly, was to
(13:22):
make sure that my father was entertained enough not to
hurt my mother or anybody in the house. Right, So
that plucks a childhood space of inadequacy. And when when
(13:44):
someone comes at me like that, the little the little
boy is fully in that space. And I would perform
and dance and tell jokes. Right, people laughing and people
having fun was my defense mechanism. I realized the other
side of it was if I cut you bad enough,
(14:07):
you wouldn't be able to respond, okay, So but people
laughing for you, then his safety. Laughing his safety. Dad
was laughing if he was wasn't lashing out, he wasn't
hitting my mother, Okay, right. I can imagine on the
set of The Fresh Prince thirty years ago, you just
kept cracking the jokes more and more and more. It's
like Janet was Juilliard trained. Janet can sing, she can dance,
(14:35):
she can act, she's brilliant, and she was in the
parental figures. Yes, yes, yes, right, So my little boy
desperately needed her approval. Okay. But the dynamic you describe
with Dad was also it was not just approval, but
(14:56):
it was how do I keep myself safe? Harder game
to play, okay, And so you were balancing both of
those here. I need to feel safe and I need
the approval. But there were other people, since your real family,
but all those wounds were getting triggered, and so you
weren't able to be your best self. It's really interesting.
I just I just noticed now in this moment that
(15:19):
I fell right back into my family dynamic with my
television family, that I was the jokester and I was
playing and I was laughing and I needed everybody to
be joyful so I could feel safe. That's right. So
now we're understanding how you feel. But there's a there's
(15:41):
a lot of hurt there. There's a lot of resentment there.
Did you feel hurt? God? Yes, absolutely, I felt Um,
I felt threatened. That makes sense. I felt threatened. Um.
At that point in my career, the Fresh Prince of
Laire really saved my life. Right. So I had I
(16:03):
had a few years in the music business, but I
had lost all my money. I didn't pay taxes, I
was in debt to the I R S. I had
just flopped an album, you know, and the Fresh Prince
represented life. Um. So on the little boy in the
level with Janet, I needed Mommy to think I was great.
(16:28):
And then once I realized that she didn't the the
my dragon woke up. Okay, you become that little boy
in any system that feels like a family got to
stay on top on top of that. Yeah, I just realized.
It's like, oh, shoot, that was the family dynamic, Adaret.
You know. So that's a trigger and you feel it
in here and the problems. We feel it physically. So
(16:50):
it feels as real as though we were four years absolutely,
and that's what gets turned on. So the question is
how do you respond to that? Thank you for sharing
that with me. That's new information for me. I didn't
(17:11):
I know that I was years old and as a
sleep and unconscious as a human being could possibly be.
And it's it's so obvious looking with these eyes. Everything
(17:32):
was a threat to me. Why was I not you
the world? I had a dream and I was a
scared little boy. The reason I got into the business.
Everything I was trying to do, like, I was so
driven by fear and jokes and comedy alive. I just
(17:57):
swear my twenty one year old eyes could only see that.
I felt like you hated me. I hated what you did. Mhm.
I just hate it what you did. You took my
career away a thirty something. Yes, you just went too
(18:21):
far when you were younger, and I know you always
had to win. I didn't realize the power of my
words and what that would you know, how that would
affect you, and went way too far and said things
to people that would not hold that information. And then
(18:47):
once you put it in, then the machine grabs it.
Then they start putting their own spin on it. It
was all way too far on my end. When I
look back now, it's you know, it's obvious that you
were having a hard time. I have children, I've been
(19:08):
divorced and a second marriage, and you know, so it's
like I can see now the level of pain and
the level of struggle that it was for you just
to show up every day. But you're good. Tired of fighting.
(19:29):
I don't want to fight, you know that, Tina Tynter song.
I don't want to fight. Time for letting go. Absolutely,
my heart is just tired. I'm so tired from all
of this, thirty years of shunning, closure, forgiveness, move forward,
(19:54):
stop him from all the chatter. Enough enough, I've served
a thirty year sentence for sure. The person I want
to be is someone who protects you, not someone that
unleash his dogs on you. I appreciate that. I'm bitten
(20:17):
to death. I could not do a thirty year celebration
of this show and not celebrate you. Celebrate your contribution
to this show, Celebrate your contribution to my life. Okay, okay,
(20:50):
you still feel like my like I'm little, you're still
my l So we're you know, we've said some people
things about each other. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry too.
We're good, baby boy. I appreciate you. You're always a
(21:14):
baby boy. I'm always older than you. I need my
own rad table talk. I've got to say that there
was something really hit me. There is that I see
the herd of two people there. Okay, but you didn't
defend yourself. You You definitely said, listen, this was the story.
I was young, but you kept bringing it back to
(21:36):
and I said hurtful things. You kept acknowledging your roll
in it instead of just selling your narrative right, because
otherwise it becomes too feuding. Now, Yes, absolutely, I'm not
arrogant enough to think that my actions and behavior were perfect. Yes, correct,
my actions and behavior were flawed and hurtful. Probably there's
(22:00):
nobody on earth that would say I hurt them that bad,
and so that the idea of the dragon. Did you
even know you had that dragon in you at twenty one?
No recognition of that dynamic whatsoever. At one, I was
trying two be the biggest star in the world, right,
(22:26):
I was doing an album, a movie, and the TV
show every year. Why did you want to be the
biggest star in the world? Um, the same little boy?
That the same, that same thing. It was like I had.
I had a girlfriend who had cheated on me right
(22:46):
before that, and everything in my creation and design of
Will Smith was to be loved and to be safe. Right.
See that's it. Because you I asked you were you
hurt by Janet all those years ago? And you went
right to I was threatened. I was threatened. I felt
(23:07):
like you know, and I wonder how much for you
threatened and hurt or experience the same way when I
feel it in my body. My father was military, So
I don't know if if if it's my actual constitution
or if it's learned. But safety is first, and safety
(23:30):
also extends to money. M hmmm. Interesting way is that? Well,
if you have money, um, one year old mine, women
won't cheat on you. Okay, So it's one more place
to be. You're trying to find all these outside ways
to protect yoursect myself. Right, So if I'm rich, and
(23:52):
if I'm famous, and if I'm the best, then mommy
and Daddy won't be mad, just okay, everybody will be
safe and I can't get hurt. Okay, So you now
understand that to be a key element of your psychology.
You remember this will. Safety is the most elemental need
of human being has other than food, air, and water. Okay,
(24:14):
we need safety. You got robbed of some of that.
That's not how a child's life should be. Safety should
be built into the model. That kind of of disapproval
is the central greatest pain in my life, and and
(24:35):
from from women. Female disapproval, because I think because of
my dynamic with my mother is you know, as a
little boy, my my father beat my mother and I
couldn't protect her. Female disapproval is in like unbearable and
(24:59):
my body can't into it. Well, I'm hearing that female
disapproval is the loss of love absolutely, and that's I mean,
that's catastrophic. Right, What in your life continues to trigger
that unsafe feeling? Because that's your wound, will that that's
your That's absolutely my my central wound. In the last
three years, I've been seeing it and confronting it more effectively.
(25:24):
My relationship with Willow has been a major part of healing.
Willows the only female relationship I've ever had that I
didn't mess up. That's beautiful. I mean, you feel that
about your right And I'm sure there are aspects. From
(25:45):
Willow's point of view, she was saying, no, you messed
some stuff out there, you know, But in my mind, um,
I did right by her my relationship with Jade. That's
what I was going to ask you. Has your relationship
with Jada triggered that lack of safety where you feel
like you had to go into that protectivement? Yes? Absolutely,
(26:08):
Like do you still have this need to get Jada's approval?
Even this house is called her Lake Tuesday? Why did
you name it that? Because I wanted it to be
a gift to Jada for her approval. Of course, that
was a psychological crash and burn. Also, it always is,
(26:33):
always is. Success is a suit of armor. We put
it on to protect ourselves from ourselves and from the world,
because really the wind would be if this house was
called our lake. Yeah, exactly. And what I have realized
the real thing that everybody is looking for is the
(26:54):
experience of love and that can be in any house.
And howevery much money and all of that, you know,
and we don't believe that because as you say that
and you talk about money, and you're a lot of
people thinking, like, of all, you can only give them
the right gift. If I could show my old man,
I made it whatever it is. But I have you
(27:15):
know firsthand comprehension that there's not enough money to make
your relationship go right. That's right, that's right. You do
get that, okay, but you remember safety is an inside game.
Like you, Jada, can't make you feel safe. Look an't
make it. This is it has to be your sense
of safety. There's a point at which you got to
(27:35):
put the load down. You know that you have to say,
I understand where the wounds come from. Now the wounds
are mine, So you like go in some ways you
sort of start letting go of Dad, start letting go
of mom be and you realize that these become triggers,
but that you are the only person who can regulate
those those feelings. That's it. Here's the thing. Most people's
(27:56):
childhood wounds is that they weren't listened to. Absolutely, you
got to this place where you could listen, a thirty
year journey to where you could finally listen to be
the psychologist for a minute. What do you think of
the three most important parts of listening? Um, I think
(28:17):
the major major part is let them complete their story.
No debate. There's no d in love. That's right, that's right,
that's no debate. You're just going to listen thoroughly to
what their story is. It seems really simple, but it's huge.
(28:43):
You've got to ask questions about the other person's story.
I would say that's number one. And the thing that
Jada and I have that is really magical is after
they tell you the story is still not your turn,
repeat it back. That's fantastic, yes, and then validate the
(29:06):
part that's true. Wow, that must be That must feel terrible.
I get, I understand. And it's just really about never
gaslighting someone else's story. Their stories, their story, it's real,
is serving a function for them, Let them have it,
let them share it. You can receive it. It's not
a threat to you. And if it is a threat,
(29:26):
to you, then you need to go do you and
get your house in order. Exactly. That is so real.
I'm actually about to say something very idiotic. I was
gonna say, are you familiar with Mohammad Ali? Of course are?
I'm sorry about that. I have to do those with
my patience, and I'm like, you're familiar with Mohammed Ali.
You're familiar with a man? Yes you are. You know
(29:48):
how to take a part. What you did with Janet
was you took psychological punches one after the other. Okay,
that capacity was something Ali had to call of it right,
lean back on the ropes and in some ways that
almost that would exhaust his opponent. But in this case
it helped her release her pain. But we know how
I'll lead trains. I need to know how Will Smith
(30:11):
trained to learn how to take a psychological punch. So
the first thing, um is recognizing that the perception of
it as a punch is not real. Okay, good for you,
because that's that's what you know. You already got a PhD.
Right there. That's what's actually happening is someone you care
(30:35):
about is hurt and they're trying to figure out how
to feel better. A person has been injured and they're
desperately seeking some hint of loving kindness. Right, so there
(30:55):
was no punching actually happening. Good for you. And the
second part is the recognition that it's not my turn yet, right,
this is Janet's turn. That's the hard part for people
because Janet asked you why, you know, she asked you
for your why, and instead of using that as an
(31:18):
opening to talk about I was a kid, I was this,
I was at whatever you didn't do that, you sent
it back to her. I'm holding space here for you.
I want you to share. I want to hear from you.
I want to understand. I've learned through marriage, counseling, through parenting,
through thousands of hours of therapy, the other person always
(31:41):
goes first, right, seek first to understand and then to
be understood. And I made my little my little phrase
love is LUV listen, understand, validate the parts that you
agree with you. You're dead if you try to go
(32:04):
first when someone's in um an emotional space. So I
have trained myself and I have the firm belief that
you have to be able to withstand someone else's truth.
That's the punch, Yes, absolutely, and the key there is
that when you can hold space and bear witness to
(32:24):
less hurt people are going back out into the world
and less likely to do more damage. That right, there
is everything. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for opening
up well. I actually appreciate your vulnerability today. Thank you.
I know that's not easy. So now it's I'm trying
to just get comfortable in in that space. I trust
(32:47):
that that's where the kind of connection and the kind
of love that I want to experience in this lifetime.
I know it doesn't come from me defending this phantom character,
it doesn't. Thank you so much. Thank you, Janet, Thank you.
I'll text you in a minute. Thank you Jada for
letting me take over the Red Table for a little while.
(33:08):
Um this is fantasy, you know. I think I might
start doing this more often. I cannot tell you how
unbelievable and wonderful it feels. I'm so happy that's behind me.
I'm so happy that we were able to make that reconciliation.
(33:30):
It's a wound that's been healed. Alter you good. Everybody's happy?
Is everyone joyous? Has everyone let their narrative go to
join the Red Table Talk family and become a part
of the conversation. Follow us at facebook dot com slash
(33:52):
red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of
Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio,
and I Heart Radio.
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