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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hello everyone, Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome, Don's coming. There's dumb
Welcome to the Return to the Shadows. Live. Here we
are go into the Shadows live. Oh my goodness, let
me get my comments upblicle you lovely people. Hi my lord,
Hi everyone, We're getting there. Here we go now I

(00:48):
found the comments by the angel. We are here and live,
and there's Dan joining us the most special guests. Dam
how does it feel here we are? It feels good.
It feels good. I've gotta tell you it feels good.
Um yeah, I made an espresso martini for the occasion.
I didn't do a good job. It tastes mostly like

(01:11):
Volka and coffee, but I gave it a stab. And
this is where we're at. But without Magnu Spain, I
think all cocktails are subpar. Almost spilt it everywhere. That
would have been a nightmare start to all of this.
I agree. I agree. We need I need. I needed
Harry here. Also, by the way, we should start this
off with a massive congratulations to Harry. Oh my gosh,

(01:33):
that everything everywhere all at once? Team what an Oscar's
I mean that suits from the beginning of the end
and then seeing him on stage I cried a little.
It was awesome. I bawled my eyes out. It's our
you know, for a biscuit, it means a lot when
your warlock fairy godfather wins an oscar. It's a big

(01:55):
deal for the Shadow Fam. But hey, you know what
else is a big deal? Tell me it has been
a year since we started the podcast. There's like to
the day. No, I don't. I don't know if it's
to the day, I can't remember. But because when we
recorded versus when we're released, it's it's very near to
a year since we started podcast. And what a better

(02:18):
way to celebrate the anniversary than to do a live
show with you the Shadow Fam. No kidding. Our producers
came up with the idea. They suggested it to us.
We thought there was absolutely nothing better. We'll just start
with the round of appause to our producers as well. Honestly,
they've been the most fantastic team. They have been absolutely incredible.
It's been a pleasure working with you, and hopefully we

(02:38):
get a chance to work with each other again in
the future. But that's enough about you, because it's not
about you. It's about me and maybe Cat only a little.
I think it's about the Shadow fam personally. Well, first thing,
why don't you tell me Dom, what is your favorite
part about making this podcast? It's tricky. There's there's so

(03:05):
much that we have covered in this year. We did
fifty something episodes a lot, and we covered everything from
like how we started, how we got cast, all the
way through it, how it ended behind the scenes to
cast that we worked with, crew that we worked with,
the weather, the elements, Toronto, all of the different things

(03:25):
that we dealt with. I have to say, I think
my favorite thing has been bringing on guests and hearing
the different the different perspectives of how this show was
created and being able to sort of explain and welcome
people into a world of like this is how we
do this, Like this it's not just what you see
on the screen. There's a thousand people behind the scenes
who put this together. And being able to spences with

(03:48):
you guys listening and everyone else who is not on
the live um has been really special. So we really,
I personally have really enjoyed that and it's been my
favorite thing. Yeah, I was going to say the exact
same thing. You know, it's so nice. We get asked
so many questions about how the show has made and
how we did certain things, and there's only so much
of that that we can explain from our perspective, and

(04:08):
getting to bring people on like Milesdale and Glenn Warner
and Drew Potter and all these amazing people who were
there every single day in the trenches with us, or
even you know, Darren McGuire, who were there every single
day and making a show with us and are such
experts in their field, but also getting to hear their
perspective on a personal level, but also getting to hear

(04:31):
their experience. He doesn't get what he wants and now
he's look at this. This is going to be happening.
The last time that I'm going to say it out loud.
This is not your shoe. This is my shoe. It
stands shoe, It stands to your boy, you're just borrowing it.
But it's, you know, getting to hear the perspective of
these people that we've grown so close to and grown

(04:53):
to really love and respect their perspective on a personal
level of what it was like to be a part
of the show because they were so special us and
getting to hear you know that the experience was also
special for them means a lot. But speaking of special folks,
we have we have Our next segment is something I'm

(05:16):
so excited for. We've done the mail bag episodes, we've
done our Instagram lives, we've chatted with all of you
at conventions, but now we get to bring you into
the podcast. So we've our producing team have preselected a
few audience members to join in and chit chat for
a little bit and ask their questions live on the
show with us. Can't wait. People in the comments. But

(05:37):
before we sort of dive in, people in the comments
have been saying, my mike isn't loud enough. How is
that I've moved it a little closer to my face?
Is that better for everyone? In a better microphone space?
Let's give it like ten seconds, see if anyone says anything.
By the way, I think a Dan fan club is yeah,

(05:58):
the Dan love is Yeah. It's on the way, It's
on the way. He's been he's been teasing an Instagram
account for the last like three years. He's four now
he's four. He's four. He's four years old. A little
baby under your little little I know, little little tiny

(06:20):
little thing that he was. Oh, it says better Okay,
everything's better, and now we know that the delays about
thirty seconds one, so they go, yes, well, um, our
magical Angel team, will you bring in our first color
cooler number one? Roll on up. This is Caitlin from
Los Angeles. Hello Caitlin, welcome, Thank you. I'm so excited

(06:42):
to be here, so lovely to meet you. Guys. You
two you look like a saw special set up. Yeah,
it looked like a shadow and say you're on a
blue screen. It's like one set. It's crazy. I know
for self tapes, I use it all the time. Yep,
you're an actor as well. Yeah, actually that's part of
my question here is um. First of all, thank you.
This podcast has been great, both, you know, as a

(07:04):
fan of the show and of this whole universe, but
also as a young actor who is just getting started,
just getting rolling. It's been really good to hear like
honest stories about what the industry is like and how
a show like this gets made. It's been so helpful
for me. It's been helpful for my mom, who feels
significantly better about all of this having heard you talk
about we are still normal people, or as normal as
we can have had our parents on the show is

(07:28):
what we should have done. We should have had one
of our parents, like we should have had our moms
on his guests, like Dom's a dick, like we're sitting
in now. I think I think I think we should
arrange that, or at least try to for next season
of the podcast. If anyone would like that to happen,
let us know on the comments and we'll talk to

(07:48):
our producers. But Caitlin, we're taking up all of your time.
What is your question for us today? So my question
is if you could relive any one day from the
shadow Hunter set, which day would it be and why?
Oh I can tell you right now. I as sad
as it was, I would want to relive our very
last day on the set because I know we've talked

(08:09):
about the last day on set extensively on the podcast.
But having everyone there from cast to crew to people
who had worked on the show, people were still working
on the show and other people just came to hang
out and then our rat party was the best experience
I've ever had on any show. I just stayed and
really there was an odd reverence for the day because

(08:33):
we all knew that this was the last. It was
the end of an era as it were. You know,
it's the last day we were all going to ever
get to spend together on this project, in this space,
with this group of people and this story, and it
was such a beautiful way to celebrate it with the
spoiler alert Malik wedding. By the way, if anyone listening

(08:56):
or watching live hasn't seen all the way through the show,
we're going to fucking ruin it, like thousand percent. We're
going to ruin what happens in this show. There's no
world in which we don't really the end of it.
Um yeah, kaylin, I'll tell you just to not be
because my aunts would probably be the same, but just
to not be repetitive and boring. And I'm going to
try and do that throughout. I was I found really

(09:18):
exciting was like the warm up for like the sort
of the week that we had warming up towards season two,
and we started seeing the changes they were going to
make with costumes and props, and then we met the
Maguire brothers and we met Dean Copkov, the new stunt
teams and the stunt riggers for the first time, and
we started working on different movements and fighting styles and
all of a sudden we were thinking like, wow, this

(09:38):
is actually a very different version of what we're going
to be pushing to achieve here, and that was very exciting.
So I would I would really live that, just not
I would relive that, because that it was it was
almost like restarting again with with sort of the experience
of knowing who a lot of these people were and
having sort of a new fire put underneath us, which

(09:59):
was which was very cool. So that and it was,
you know, like rejuvenating the whole thing, So it was
that was pretty neat. So I would probably I would
go ahead and say that you know what, um, I'll
agree with you there. That's a really good answer. I
hadn't thought of that. I can't agree with me after
I disagreed with you. To be not repetitive. We can
agree with each other's opinions. Already halfway through my drink.

(10:22):
What am I going to do? Twenty minutes? Can never
win twenty minutes to make a cattail? Yeah, it was
much Thank you for joining us, Good luck with everything.
Wishing you all the best, especially for me, because I
don't think we're ever going to be in direct competition
for break all the legs. I'm anyway, but she's like this,

(10:49):
there's another pretty blonde chick. That's enough. Good luck with everything, Kaylin,
thank you so much of luck. The have fun. Bye.
All right, let's bring our next gut up to something
I don't know. Square here is like not Jaylor and

(11:13):
welcome and you're a Missouri gala see yes, yes saying
that's amazings off now where you're from? Cat? Yeah, yeah,
knew it. Well, welcome to the thank you? Oh goodness, Well,

(11:34):
my dear, how are you today? First of all, I'm great,
are you? I'm fantastic? And what is your question for us?
My question is when you first began acting, what was
your first experience like was it what? Did it live
up to your expectations and or were you surprised by anything.
I'm so excited to tell this story. Cat, you go first,

(11:56):
but I'm so excited. Okay, I think I know your
ordom and it's it's a it's a good one. So
I'm glad. I'm going, Oh my god, you're so right.
Oh my god, Okay, this I forgot about that one.
I was thinking about a different one. Um gosh, what
was my first onset experience? I think, if I'm not mistaken.
My first actual onset TV experience was I was living

(12:21):
in New York. A little night music had just closed
and I booked a two line part on Law and
Order SVU, as everyone who lives in New York for
long enough does, and I was so it was like
walking into Disneyland, you know that, just having these sets
that you've watched on TV for so many years, and
you're walking the first time walking into a sound stage,

(12:43):
you really are immersed into this entire world, and it's fascinating,
and it just a TV set ran like such a machine.
It wasn't anything like I expected, and it was very
you know, you get any dear thing, you get out
and you're done, and suddenly you're going, wait, did I
just do it? What just happened? But that was, again
a show that had been in existence for fifteen almost

(13:03):
twenty years at that point, so it's a It was
very different coming into Shadow Hunters, but that was that
was quite the system that I bumped into for the
for the very first time. But dumb, why don't you
tell your story? Mine was a commercial. It was a
commercial or an advert depending where you're where you're from.
In the UK we call it an advert for skincare

(13:25):
for a skincare company, which I think has been well
I thought had been scrubbed from the internet, but I
think since since Luke Baines publicly mentioned that this was
where I met him at the card I think we were.
We were seventeen or eighteen when that happened, so I
won't say how many years ago. That was quite a

(13:48):
few min years a day and we did, Yeah, we
did this commercial together and it was sort of a
fairly well oiled machine, and then also wasn't at all
or well oiled machine. I was wearing not very many
clothes at one point, very early in the morning, and
it was very cold, and I was on a trampoline,
and it was a whole it was a whole thing.
I think he was doing some equally crazy stuff and

(14:11):
that was my first experience. And I've been friends with
Luke ever since, which is nice. I was just talking
to Luke earlier today, so um, that's nice somethings I've
known Luke for. I honestly, I don't I don't even
know what the maths is. What's eight what's thirty three
minus eighteen? Anybody it's tough in it when it's live,

(14:31):
when the red dot's going and it's live, all of
that very simple maths just goes out of you ahead
fifteen years. It's fifteen years, hey, guante years. Sure, approximately,
it's not a math test. We're not doing math test today.
I'm so sorry. We're not putting it from that in
about thirty seconds comments idiots X amount of years. Um, yeah,

(14:52):
great question, great question, Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Stories.
It's almost like we got the script and we were prepped.
Oh my goodness, this is something else. This is something
business for tomorrow. This is another thing that we're doing
tomorrow later on uh huh shalen. Thank you so much
for joining us to us meeting you guys, you two.

(15:13):
We really didn't get a bit of a spectrum of
answers here, which is interesting. I got so rounding is fifteen,
so I was correct. We got a nineteen and a
twenty five. But you know, you make it good for you. Yeah,
yours our better number, so less dumb. That's not fair.

(15:36):
There were three of us who weren't good at maths.
Then Austin so, hey, you're from Chicago. I am suburbs.
Would you up would Chicago Pencer for me? Because I
miss it so much. I would love to thank you.
I'm gone there. Yes, I will tweet you, thank you,

(15:56):
thank you. I'm so down. So it is such an
honor to me. Both of you guys are both my heroes.
And my question it's a bit more of a deep
one because I started watching Shadow Hunters last year. I
was going through a really really hard time in my
life and seeing how Clary and Jason everybody else dealt

(16:16):
with their traumas was just the most affirming thing to
me going through mine, because I was like, I'm not alone.
I have these people who now feel like big brother
and big sister to me, and they're doing all this
supernatural stuff and Clary loses her mom and they're brothers.
They're not brothers. It's all crazy. And so you both

(16:38):
have helped me so much. You've been such a tremendous
part of my healing process, and Kat also watching you
on Arrow and Walker independence you deserve all the awards
for that. It's such a magical performance. And so my
question for both of you is how has your characters
helped you in the tough times and what do you

(16:59):
draw on to portray that emotion because whatever clearly cries,
I don't want to cry. So it's just amazing. First
of all, I'm sorry because I cry a lot in
the show. There's a lot of cras like every other
day I was crying. I think also we should say
just first off, Austin, it's a beautiful We would genuinely

(17:20):
really appreciate it. But what I think, and I've said
this before and people will have heard me say this,
but I'm going to reiterate it to you directly. The
tough time you're going through and the fact that you
came out the other side of that, we might have
helped who might have been in a happy little distraction,
but we're not responsible for that. You're responsible for that.
The strength from that came from you. It was inside you.
It is inside you. It's to everyone listening. That's strength

(17:41):
to overcome whatever the thing is, or if it's a
few different things, whatever it is, that if we were
able to maybe help you access that in some way,
then that's amazing because we're just doing our job and
that's connected with you in some way. But it is
important to note, and I always want to reiterate that
that strength did come from you. I never forget that
because you were strong enough to do that. It's true.

(18:02):
And we've been so lucky on this show and through
all the fandoms and conventions that we've done, to hear
so many stories like yours, of these amazing angels out
there in this fandom that have all gone through such
astronomical things, and it's it's really humbling to be a
very small part of these amazing, heroic things that all

(18:23):
of you have done in your lives. So thank you
for sharing that with us. But as far as goodness,
I think one thing I learned from Clary and from
from a lot of my other characters, but Clary was
the first one that sort of taught this to me
is she always she falls on her face a million times,
she makes a millions intentional and unintentional, a bunch of

(18:47):
things wrong. But she always picks herself back up. She
always forgives herself, forgives other able to pick herself back
up by the bootstraps and move on and learn that
it's okay that to not be perfect, and it's okay
to make mistakes as long as you have good intentions
and are doing your best with the resources and information
you have. That's that's the biggest thing I learned from Clary.

(19:11):
But as far as the emotional scenes and dom and
I've talked about this a lot. We different for every
person and for me personally, it's different for every scene
and every day you're on set because it's always depends
on the mental and emotional place you're coming from. So
sometimes it's a song, sometimes it's something from my Sometimes

(19:32):
the scene itself. You can just be so immersed in
the character relationships that you've built. It just comes from
the story that you're telling. Um. But I always find
it fascinating to hear what different people's sources of that
kind of fatain are but dumb, what about you? I
think I think I learned a lot of of ways

(19:58):
not to make decisions through Jason. I think um learning
that that being solo and a lot of these decision
making processes is not the way I would like to
do things. If it is the way you do it,
then great. But for me, talking things out with a
group of people and developing that and so that if anything,
reassured myself that like this is the way I would
like to I definitely learned that from him, sort of

(20:21):
by by watching his mistakes and being like, that's right,
this causes you pain and I don't want that. And
I think as far as the more emotional stuff goes,
it depends, like it really does depend because, as Kat said,
some days you turn up on set and they go, great,
we need a Hollywood tier, which is a tear from
one eye, normally the eye closest to camera. We need

(20:42):
a Hollywood tier. We need it in four seconds go
and you're like, just not, that's not It just doesn't
work that way. So sometimes you have to rely on externals,
whether it's tear stick or a song or something from
the past, whatever it is. The ideal way of doing
it is you react to whatever the material is, and
you react with the other actors with you, and that's

(21:04):
where this comes in. This is very important that you
trust and care and that the people around you care
about you and care about your performance, and that you
create it together as a group. And that's not just
the other actors either, that's crew giving you the space
to find that camera operators Drew and we had him
on the on the Hey Buddy on the show, very

(21:25):
clear at making the point of like, we will tell
you when the camera is on is doing this, So
save the tears until we're here, because this sort of
strange anthropological thing happens. You run out of tears. It's
a weird concept, but like your body will physically run
out of you almost too dehydrated, your body just won't
make them anymore. And God, almost every time it's when

(21:46):
it's here and you're like, I got no more. There's
no more clips, I got no more bullets in the chamber,
like there's no tears coming out. So I think the
key things are to rely on the people around you,
rely on the material, and and um, yeah, I learned that.
I've learned that. I learned that I need to rely
on the people around me in my life as well. Absolutes. Yeah,

(22:09):
thank you both so much for everything. Of course, Austin anytime,
Thank you so much. Take care, have a good one. Right,
this is your mind? Come here, Come here, he's are
you going to see him? Pop right here? Look at this.
Oh no, he's not done it. He's gone around the
other way. He's got my other shoe. He's got the
other shoe. Come here. I love good boy, Dan, good boy.

(22:32):
So Next, we have Anna from the Ukraine. Hey, I'm
so excited. In Neura's more excited. Hello are you. Oh,
I'm fine, as you may know in our situation, but
I'm fine. I'm great. And also I wanted to say
thank you so much for everything you're doing for a

(22:54):
CHAF fan, because, as you may know, in our situation
in Ukraine, a lot of people can be home, but
includingly but funny, it reverses a show and when I
listen to podcast, I just feel like I'm at home
at least a little a little. Oh that's good. That's
so very glad to hear that, and we can and

(23:17):
the rest of our team wishing love and happiness and
safety to everyone in your situation. You know, I think
everyone wants this to be over as quickly as possible,
and a peaceful resolution to be found as quickly as possible,
and for everyone to be you know, back in their
own bedroom, being able to listen to this under their sheet,
under their own sheets, you know, doing things. We're wishing
that for you from the bottom of our hearts. But

(23:40):
I will say that's that's such a wonderful sentiment, and
that's something that I love about the Shadow family feel
like a home, and the community has become a safe
place and a home for so many people all over
the world. And I'm constantly in our and fascinated and
humbled by every single one of you that makes this
community is so beautiful. So that is a perfect way

(24:03):
to put it into perspective, my dear. That's your question
for us today, and my aggression is if you could
from once in one detail from your character's character's life,
what would be and what consequences it would cost? Hmm,
if I could take You're asking if I could take

(24:24):
something from Jase's life and bring it into my life
the ruins of thousand So if you could change one detail,
if you could change one detail of Jason's life, Yeah, oh,
I see what consequences would have I mean, poor Jason,
so many, so many of the details in Jase's life
I would change, Like, it's almost unfair to just pick

(24:46):
the one. I think. Well, here's the thing. I think,
if Jason's father was a more empathetic, genuine well, if
Jase's if who we thought Jase's father was at the
beginning was a more empathetic and caring and loving man,

(25:07):
I guess the person who raised Jase. See, I still
get confused with who who Jase's and where he came from.
There are so many different storylines that happened I think
we're talking about. I'm trying to I would like Valentine
to have been a nicer guy in general. I think
he could have been nicer to Jason, could have been
nice to Clare, he could have been nicer to Jonathan.
And in reality, what that would have changed is we

(25:30):
probably didn't really have a show because so much of
it was based on Valentine being the bad guy. So
I think we probably didn't have a TV show, so
this wouldn't have happened. So I guess Jase's pain and
a lot of other people's pain kind of caused this
to be a thing. So that's good, you know, silver lining. Yeah,

(25:50):
so I guess that's where we're at. That's my answer. Well,
that's you know, your Jason's sacrifice is everyone else's enjoyment? Yeah, yeah,
I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to
put it that way really, but um hmm. I think

(26:11):
if I could change wen detail about Clarie's life, I
would just I would want her to listen a little
bit more to the people around her to know just
a little bit more than she does about things, and
maybe maybe for her not to go against the grains
so much. But alternatively, it makes me wonder because so

(26:32):
many things that happened happened because of accidents that she
had or things that she did that maybe weren't what
she was told to do, and some of those were
good things. So you know, I'm not sure that. Yeah,
I totally agree with your Sometimes changes it's not good, agreed.

(26:54):
Sometimes yeah, sometimes change is negative. Absolutely, Yeah, thank you
so much, and it was such a pleasure to media.
Thank you, Thank you so much, sending love all the best.
All right, Next we have Anya from Germany. Hi there, amazing, Anya, Hi, Hi, Hi,

(27:18):
how are you. I'm good? Thank you for having me
of course, our pleasure amazing. So, uh, what's your question
for us today, my dear? Well, why is not like
really a question, It's more a little mini brand I had, um,
which was, how come every other shadow hunter that we

(27:40):
have besides our, one of which has been a shadow
hunter for maybe a minute, is basically useless at their job?
I'm thinking, Umah, Jonathan going down into like the kind
of dungeon thing and stealing the more to Rril and
the Elite carriage just going down like immediately, I was like, oh, yeah,

(28:05):
I know, you know, point off the show, but really elite. Yeah,
we talk about this a yeah. Let me tell you,
we talk about this all the time, all the time.
Useless shadow Hunters as a breed are useless, completely useless.
Let's do like seventeen backflips and throw like a weapon
that is super useful throughout the rest of the story,

(28:26):
but we use it one time, or like a ruin
that got designed and we're like, y, yeah, let's do that. Well,
let's pour to into Iddriss. Using this ruin that that
Cats used one time, Claris used one time. Where does
it get us underwater? Doesn't make any sense. We have
warlocks everywhere that we're friends with who know how to
get us to address doesn't make any sense. It's the
stupidest thing. We make terrible choices all the time, all
the time. But it made for an interesting show. So

(28:48):
there's the real balance. Yeah, useless, completely useless. I agree,
we really did it, really did. I will say the
senior talking about I think the idea was that it's
about Jonathan is so powerful that even the elite guards
just go down Love writing center. But then how can
we fight him? And it takes a minute. I don't know.

(29:09):
I don't know. But he was supposed to be so good.
Do you remember who doubled him? Do you remember who
doubled him for that? Right? Do little Little Little Love?
That's our stunt Cornet or Darren maguire. Yea doubled will
Tutor for that scene. He doubled will Tutor for that
fight scene. Yeah, because they needed such a such an
elite kicker that only Darren could do it. Is that

(29:33):
sun going to say it? I don't know, skilled masterful,
You wouldn't see it. You probably wouldn't notice because he's
they edited, edited, edited, edited it, edited it, say edited it?
Edited it? Yeah, say it, but say it normally. Don't
say it with you with your teeth. Just try and

(29:54):
say it like in turn a phrase. Edited it. Oh yeah, okay, okay,
I can see Wow. Um they did it together very well.
So is it? You probably won't be able to notice.
Hopefully you won't be able to notice. But go back
and then and then tweet Kat if you noticed. I

(30:14):
don't have Twitter anymore for this exact reason. So people
can't be like, though, does it look like him anymore?
And I'm like, I don't care. I will say Darren
looks great as a blonde. I'm just gonna say it.
It's gonna put it out there, Darren looks great as
a blonde. Thank you to the person in the chat
who said I'm an elite kicker. I appreciate that. How
are you keeping up with the chat? It's there's so
much of it, it's so quick. Someone said poor rage,

(30:37):
and I agree with you, page. I really want a
T shirt that says poor rage, but out of context,
it probably is not a good idea. On ya, this
is what it's like being in our life. How does
it feel welcome? You ask a normal question and we
answer that sort of somewhat, and then we just transition
into useless nonsense tangents. Yeah, this is what our producers

(30:58):
have to put up with, and so you do. Okay,
Well that's good. That's good to hear. I'm glad that
this is somewhat the norm for you. Yeah, I mean,
this is what our producers have to put up with
and edit. A'mia, thank you so much for being on
the show today. We really appreciate you joining us and
for such a wonderful conversation topic. I like your plans.
Bye hy bye bye, Natalie. Welcome, Oh movies, you can't

(31:24):
here's it? Hey, welcome. Hi, how are you guys? Fantastic?
Thank you, I'm good, thank you. And I'm in very
wet and cold Scotland. So oh no, I'm very similar
to oh sorry, what are you guys? No, I was
just gonna ask what your question was for today, and

(31:47):
so very similar to Austin and your Your guys show
is like my my comfort show. Um, so I tend
to get maybe two episodes in the series two and
I go, I'm depressed. That's what it. So I very
much find it's a really really comfort and lovely show.
But what I wanted to ask was everyone tends to

(32:10):
have a dark or off pieced storyline and if there
was one that you guys could take from another character
storyline that you wish it been yours, what would it
have been? Oh? Wow, it's an interesting one, a storyline
that I wish I could have had. I mean we

(32:31):
sort of had this from time to time in little
moments like Dommy and I did this and he did
it with Alberto Once. I loved the episode where Magnus
and Valentine switched, just getting to watch Alan and Harry
do that and really commit and just get they both
committed so much and got so much of each other's

(32:53):
nuances and voice, speech pattern, posture walk. It blew my mind.
I mean, they're both so uber talented, but I'm not
surprised it was such a high level of work. But
that would have been so fun to have been paired
with someone and had to kind of do that for
a full episode instead of just in bits and bobs. Yeah. Yeah,

(33:17):
I think we also sort of toyed with it for
a second right towards we got given each other's powers
from different elements of that, and I think, I don't
know if there's another storyline I would have liked Jase
to go through necessarily, But I think it's always an
interesting concept to think, how would this person deal with
the world if your background was entirely different, if you

(33:37):
were treated differently because of who you were or what
you were, who would that develop you into as a
as a character, as a person, as you know, a being.
Would Jay still be sort of the same, fairly obnoxious,
you know, broken psychlonic character. Would he be that same
guy if he was raised as a warlock, if he
was raised exactly the same same people in his life,

(33:58):
same treatment, the whole way through, but he was a warlock,
so his external factors maybe changed. And that's that's always
sort of an interesting conversation to develop within dialogue is
U and an interesting sort of anthropological look at these
characters and who they are and how they develop. Is
we are products of our environment. Everyone is, everything is
a product of his environment. We adapt and move and
grow with our environment. So it would be interesting to

(34:20):
think within that where these characters could and should and
maybe would go. Were their situations different. I suppose I
think we answered your question with a question, and I'm
sorry about that. Yeah, but that's what happens. That's fain.
Thank you very much, podcast, Thank you so much, thank you,

(34:42):
great question. Thank you Natalie. Hello, just firing them. Yes,
welcome to the show. Hi, Jess. If I'm going to
be honest, I'm actually terrified because I don't normally do Yeah,
So I'm like really, okay, Okay, I get it, don't

(35:05):
worry about it. Kat told me right before that she
was super nervous about my accent because obviously I'm from
like Kat, you're like, I think you're American. If you do,
you're English. But I'm terrified because I stutter a lot
and because of my accent, I'm growing bright pint. I
tend to go over my words and it's really am
Thats fine. I promise you don't worry about it. And yeah,

(35:26):
really don't worry about it. You sound flawless, You sound perfect, Jesse. Yeah,
So my question was to you guys, if you could
have one more episode where you both had complete, great
freedom over it, what would you like to see happen
in that episode? Oh? I always I thought about this
to the entire pandemic. I would have loved to see
shadow Hunters in lockdown, just in lockdown at the institute,

(35:49):
going well, what how do we? What do we? Ah uh,
and just so having to do such mundane things, or
you know, having to try and do any of the
crazy things that any of us did to stay entertained
during the pandemic, or even you know, watching them try
and develop a run an anti you know, COVID run

(36:11):
or something, because I'm sure they would be experimenting. But yeah,
after after like the first month, because I think it
would be the same as same as like human beings,
like this is gonna blow over. This is fine, it's
going to blow over. Not a good deal. The month
two rolls around and you're like a ship. This might
be about for a while, like this is Then you're
calling like R and D shadow Hunters R and D, like, hey, guys,

(36:32):
we're gonna need you to get on on top of this,
like the shadow Hunters version of Fiser. We're gonna be like, guys,
I'm gonna need you to pump out a vaccine for
this asa because we're we're like, there are two hundred
shadow Hunters on the best of days, we don't know
what we're doing, and we're now all crammed in the
same place like I he's made herself the chef. That's
not good. That's bad. Let us out, let us out

(36:54):
right now. That's and then you have you know, like show, Yeah,
you have Simon and Magnus who are quarantined in there
with us, and you know, having to navigate that political atmosphere,
and I don't know that would be fun. We always
thought it would be fun. Matt and Alberto and I
thought it would be fun to have an episode that
wasn't about us at all. It was just about the

(37:14):
supporting actors that we had come in the background shadow
hunters or like or like um, the people like walking
down the street and you follow like this one guy's
story who bumped into nobody like shoulder checked nobody and
spend the rest of his life being like, but I
know I did, like I felt someone, and it's some
shadow hunter who fucked up and like walked into someone

(37:37):
and that like that's his little sub story. Like he's
in therapy, like, no, I definitely bumped into someone. And
they're like, you can't have done that. How does this
relate to your past? And he's like, no, I definitely did.
I bumped into someone and I felt it and we've
just ruined that person's life. Yeah. See, it's always be
interesting like side story. See then I can imagine like

(37:57):
obviously if they look around check then the shadow hunt
for a thinking, oh my god, you can see me
just like obviously Clarie's first one of her first lines,
and I would be absolutely hysterical. Yeah, I know there's
another one, a rogue shadow hunter out there that doesn't
know they're a shadow hunter. Oh boy, Alec just goes
no no. I think at that point as well, I

(38:18):
think Jays would bump into another yea no nopep me like, yes,
I'm so sorry I did Sorry, I have a nice
eving and then just me it was a pleasure to
meet you both. Yes, thank you so much, thank you, Hi,
thank you take talking to us. Hello, Hi, um so

(38:40):
um hellove to me, Arena. Lovely to meet you as well.
And um, I've also wanted to say I didn't even
know any of you existed up till about a year
and a half ago, and I saw a shadow of
Hunters and I picked up quite a few good actors
to watch what they're gonna do. Oh that's very sweet.
Thank you. But I even liked your podcast more. It's

(39:03):
really wow. I really enjoy your guys, and I was
really impressed what a good host you are, and you
always when you have guests, you always uh and during
the show you always pointed out, um, good scenes your
castmates made, and um you always keep saying like, oh

(39:24):
they should include that in a there um promo reel. Yeah. So,
but you never talk about yourself, and I think you're
very good actors, so I know it's hard to just
yourself in your own work. But now that you did
rewatch and had a little bit time distance from when
you did the thing, what are the scenes not necessarily

(39:46):
the scenes that were best for you to make, but
like the scenes that you look there. Oh that's a
good acting I'm gonna put this in my resume or
whatever you do as actors. Yeah. Um, good question, really
good question, because I think, um, you're right. Normally, the
question we get asked and the question we answered probably
the most often is what was your favorite to what

(40:07):
was the hardest film, to the hardest scene to film, whatever,
so on and so forth. Which one do I think
would be in my real I know one that's in
my reel because I've I've obviously seen my real. Um
my agents put it together. Kat, I'm sure you will
do the same. But what's in it? The scene from
the end of episode three in season two, Um, Parabatti

(40:30):
lost alec Is dying and I do the Parabati oath
to him bringing back that scene is in my reel.
I know that scenes in my real Um So I
sort of I cheaped out on the answer there a
little because I didn't really answer it. I was like
my team thought that was good, and They've put it
in my reel, so I'm sort of washing my hands

(40:50):
and I'm fantastic at that scene and I made sure
it was real. No, I'm not doing that, um no,
but I know that that scene is in my real
And I will say, as far as performing, you do
have days where you go home and go that felt good,
that felt really good, and I did I think it
was one hundred percent that I think it couldn't be
any better. Absolutely not. But was it up there, you know,

(41:11):
towards where I want it to be. Yeah. Absolutely. And
I think part of being a performer or an artist
really in any form, there's a version of perfections living
you all times, so you're always sort of striving to
be a little better and onto the next thing. I
don't know any artists that would be happy to sort
of sidestep job to job and placate themselves within their
own sort of thing. There's always an element of sort

(41:34):
of challenging nature within that. So I will say I
was very happy with that. Absolutely, that's that was such
a beautiful scene. I think I have to I have to.
I two come to mind, and one is you know
one that dam and I talked about all the time
the end of season two when we did the whole
bit at Lake Lynn with Angel coming in Valentine the

(41:57):
model of instruments. I just know that again, that was
one of those days that don talks about that we
left set completely exhausted, but knowing that we'd given every
piece of ourselves to it. But the other scene I
would I would maybe bring up for me and simply
because I I know, I've I've was really feeling those

(42:17):
same emotions in that moment, and I don't think you
can get much more reality captured on camera than This
was the last scene I did with Luke when he
was playing Jonathan on the Street of well, the Street
of Toronto that we actually played for Toronto, where he's
you know, killing all of the people and then Clary

(42:38):
kills him at the end of it. That was Luke's
last scene on the show. And I actually didn't realize
it until that day in that moment that this was
his final scene and his final day, because our serious
finale was so you know, astronomically all over the place,
and we were dealing with a lot at the time.
But that scene was so beautiful written and it was

(43:01):
such a wonderful moment to celebrate, you know, everything that
we'd built in that character relationship and everything that we'd
gone through together and making the show. And I will
never forget because our crew again gave us the space
and the time to do it in a way that
was conducive to the emotional state that we were in,
so that that would be the other one for me,

(43:24):
and I agree with Kata, that's that's the one. I
was thinking, like, it's so good because there was like
you had to do something hard, but there was so
much compassion in it. I just love how you did
it there. And it's like I also liked I love
that scene, but I also write your our presentation yea,
every time you like totally different person, you can see

(43:45):
like a devil or like demon in your eyes. Thanks, yeah,
let him out, Thank you, Arena appreciate it. Thank you
so much. It's so lovely. What a great question. All right,
and this sorry for everyone asking a thirty second delay,
but I something went wrong. I touched something on my
computer that I shouldn't have touched. It stopped recording. I

(44:06):
had to log off and log back on. If that
happens again for either of us or any of us.
That's why that's my run over. Sarah. Okay, Sarah, Sarah,
how do I say? Name both the works? Welcome to
the show. Hi, so nice to meet you both. So
I'm actually just about to finish up and graduate with

(44:28):
my bachelor's degree in a few weeks. Um, congratulations, congratulations.
My question actually is for your or in your careers,
was there ever a moment or a few moments where
you had some hesitations, some doubts where you're questioning, like,
is this really what I want to do? Maybe maybe

(44:49):
the amount of work that you're putting in isn't like
it's not acquainting to you the results that you want to.
Let me tell you it, Sarah. I have a good
example of this right now. So we're on my computer.
I'm going to try and not accidentally close anything. I'm
in my So all of the auditions that I've done
over the last this is probably only six months because
I have to kind of get rid of them, but

(45:10):
the last six months I keep them all. Um, okay,
all right, so here's a good answer, right, this is
just the auditions that I've done over the last six months.
So on an audition, everyone sort of knows knows. This
about what we do is similar to a job interview.
I've done one hundred and thirty five auditions in the
last six months. Jobs wise, there is stuff going on

(45:35):
which is great and very exciting, and I'm very lucky.
But that's the ratio, like one hundred and thirty five,
or like about one hundred to one, maybe fifty to
one if you have a really good year. That's kind
of the ratio. And the first time that happens when
you first get into this industry and you get fifty
nos in a row and they don't tell you why.
They don't tell you that you weren't good enough for

(45:55):
you were too tall or too small, or you stuttered
on this word or your accent, and quite right, they
give you nothing, They tell you nothing. They just say no.
The answers no, we're going a different way. When you
hit around that first fifty, your body, your brain tells
you this might not be right, This might not be
the right job for me. There's like making and what

(46:17):
you need is good people around you. You need a
good bad support family and friends obviously, but a good
team as well. You need a good team. So my
agents and my manager my agents here in the UK
and my manager I've been with for ten fifteen years,
and they are very honest with me. And if i'd
send them an audition that shit, they'll tell me it's shit,
and I'll go back and I'll redo it and I'll

(46:37):
work on it. So much of what this job is
doesn't come down to us. It comes down to, like,
we wanted someone who lives six foot because we hired
the girl opposite to be five foot ten, So if
we hired someone who was five ten, they wouldn't look
right next to each other on camera. But that's after
your audition has already happened. So that's such a it's

(46:59):
not a no, it's not a you weren't good enough
to get this job. It's a technical thing that happened
later on, you know what I mean. Or like they
hire someone to play like an example from the show,
you know, they hire someone to play Alec, they hire Matt.
They have to cast someone with skin to play Izzy

(47:19):
because their biological brother and sisters. They have to do that,
like they have to look like brother and sister on screen.
So if they'd hired either Emerald or Matt first, whoever
it was, they have to match those two people together.
So whoever was in the audition, then they can start
whittling down and going, Okay, here are the ones. But
there's definitely times during that where you go, yep, this
is this is hard. It's hard to be told no

(47:41):
over and over and over and over and over again. Definitely,
And you know, it's one of those moments where I
don't know that I've ever questioned whether or not I
want to do this job and whether or not you know,
I knew from the moment I stepped on stage the
first theater show I ever did that I want to
tell stories for the rest of my life. But there
are moments where you are in this industry and and

(48:03):
you sort of go, am I ever going to get
another job? Am I? Is anyone ever going to see
that I can do this job again? And that happens
for most actors that I talked to, including myself. After
just about every job that you do, you sort of
just wonder. As every job's coming to a close, you're like,
all right, well, I hope I work again. If not,

(48:24):
this has been a really nice time and a great career,
and thank you all for your time. But that's that's
just part of it. And Tom's very right. You have
to surround yourself with good people, and you have to
remind yourself why you started, you know, and why you
got into this in the first place, and why what
sparked that passion initially for doing this job. And for
me it happened at one point I was I'd been

(48:46):
doing television just kind of it was the same thing
over and again. And I read Sidney Lamet's book called
Making Movies. Sydney that was an incredible director from from
the earlier days of Hollywood, and just the way that
he spoke about tell stories and the way that he
spoke about bringing these things to life and all ways
that he painted a story. It reminded me why I

(49:08):
love what I do, and it's it's nice to be
reminded of those things from time to time. Wow, that
sounds great. Um, I feel like because I'm graduating, it's
kind of like the end of something beginning of something else.
So no, it's really great to hear your guys's opinions.
Thank you so much, and those are always the most
exciting times. So wishing you all the best, and I

(49:29):
can't wait to see what you do thank you, bye,
my dear. I have a great evening. And also, um,
you have one more guest. I don't want to just
before Hi, Vivian, how are welcome? Before before this, h
before we start diving into this, I'm looking at the

(49:51):
moment thing Kat, what is the what is the money
at the top? What is this? I don't know above
the chat. Yeah, I've seen it, but I don't know
what the thing this is. And it's like donations or
tips or whatever. Don't stop doing that. Start you can
watch this. You know you've got your tickets already. This
is this is You don't need to pay any more
money to do this. You're all part of the same crowd.

(50:13):
Stop stop donating money into this. I don't know, but
like if it's if it's like tips, you don't need
to do that. This is. This is free. We want
everyone to enjoy it. Like, you don't need to be
adding more money to this. It's very very sweet of you, guys,
and we'll make sure it goes to someone who needs
it and deserves it. In this case, it will help

(50:35):
will work with moments make sure. But you guys don't
need to be donating anything to us all to the show.
We're good. This is for you, This is for free. Okay, sorry, Vivian,
go ahead, don't worry. Hi guys, Um, thank you for
having me. It's exciting as I actually grew up with
the books already, so I'm Dum's age right now, and

(50:57):
I started, I think early twenties around with the books
and I was so sad that the film didn't have
a second chance thought of, but I have to admit
the series was just so lovely. You've done such a
great job. It's been really incredible. Thank you. Yeah, you're well. Yeah.
So my question for you would be if Shadow Hunters

(51:18):
still does affect your daily life in ways of funny memories,
emotional memories, funny sayings, maybe lessons learned, and if so,
in which exact way and how often? Absolutely, I will
say that, you know, this series and this story, this

(51:38):
group of people completely changed my life and still continues
to be a huge part of it every single day,
you know it. For me, the biggest reason for that
are the people, whether it's the people that we worked
with every day, the friendships we made on set with
our colleagues and our coworkers, and then with the fandom.
You know it, was such a huge part of our

(52:00):
lives still to this day. It's why we're doing this
podcast is because of all of you angels that have
created this beautiful community and continue not only to support
us and the story, but to support each other. And
that's you know, that's why I will always do anything
for the Shadow fam because you have been so wonderful
and so beautiful and so loving to each other. And

(52:21):
there's so few places, especially on the Internet, that that
sort of community exists anymore. And I think, you know,
the fact that that we can keep giving life to
this is a very beautiful thing. Yeah, it's lovely, agree,
And it's lovely to be a part of it as well. Absolutely, Yeah, No,
I agree, And I will say for my part, the

(52:44):
people that I'm there obviously can't I do this. And
Matt and Alberto especially are a huge part of my
life and will be forever. I hope we'll be for
forever and ever and ever. And we shared special occasions
with each other. We I ask Matt and Alberto for advice,

(53:05):
very different types of advice from each of them, but
advice and those people are still a huge part of
my life. I'm seeing Darren next summer or this summer,
I guess now to do some crazy like Woodland Audio
and live in the woods for a week, which I
can't wait. You know, these people, these people a part
of you and a part of your life, and I
can't Yeah, I couldn't live without them, for sure, Lovely, lovely,

(53:30):
But do you also maybe have some funny sayings you
use in your daily life which come from set maybe
or something like that, something that you know. Alberto and
I still do the high five with these Yeah, the
high five we used to do that was probably super
loud in the microphone and apologize the high five that
we did on the show we developed we started doing.

(53:52):
I commem why why we started doing it, but we
were doing it in our personal lives between us before
it ended up in the show, and then it ended
up in the show somehow. Yeah, and we still do
that to this day. So there are definitely little sort
of elements that we had in the show that are
still in this show for sure. That's great, lovely, absolutely well,
thank you so much for joining us today, Vivian, It's

(54:14):
been so lovely to chat with you. Yeah to you too,
thank you, thank you, and hey, folks who are watching.
If anyone has questions that you want us to answer,
just put them in the chat and we will answer
a few of those as and we can write. As
we're wrapping up here. We had so much planned and

(54:35):
I don't know how we have done of it. This
is good though we did the this like, we spent
a lot of time on the bit that we wanted
to spend time on, which is great, and I think too,
we can take some of these other bits and put
them when we can do them. With some of these
we had some games planned for those of you who
are watching, and we definitely want to get to some

(54:57):
of those games, but we cannot. Oh, pocket cookies, how
can we put a pocket cookies? Oh? Shoot, that's right,
pocket cookies? I know Alberto stilled as pocket like right
now it's not cookies. But I will show you right
now in my pocket I have I have Dand do
you want to treat pocket dan cookies? There's little what's

(55:19):
this here? He comes there? You go come and get it.
Sniff sniff, stif stiff. Oh my goodness, good boy, good boy?
What okay? Hold on? If you go to any other
institute in the world, which one would you go to?
Don interesting. That's sort of yeah, fair enough, But I

(55:43):
have started something now that's sort of assuming that there
are like in the world what we're saying. Yeah, um,
you know, Mmmm No, I don't know. Maybe um, maybe
like Australia, like Sydney, like the Sydney Institute. I bet

(56:04):
that'd be late. I bet they'd be like so chilled. Yeah,
I think I think Sydney might be the way to go, honestly, Wallace,
Yeah we met. Oh no, you were at the commit
I met one of the next time. I did a
different one, like a year before or after you guys,
And I also met a cool they're very very slim,

(56:27):
fun little animals. Um um oh. Someone someone asked, uh,
books were reading currently? Um? I'm reading a Fitzgerald book
called Flappers and Philosophers of a lot of his short stories,
and it's brilliant because they're nice to read on set
because he can kind of get in and out of
it pretty quickly. What about you, dum, what are you reading?

(56:49):
I'm not reading anything I should. Is anyone any recommendations
I should? I should dive into a book for sure. Um, yeah,
I'm really not. I've had a beautiful book recently that
you might love. Um, it's called the Buried Giant. It's
by issue ro Okay, it's really it's it's sort of
half in the same way that The Alchemist is kind

(57:10):
of half fantasy half human truth. It's it's sort of
a similar tone, and it's really it's really well written,
quite like it. Okay, I'll look into that. Let's see.
Any what emoji do you use the most dumb I
don't know. Let's see. I think I only really send

(57:31):
emojis to my girlfriend, and it's like the heart one
or the heart eyes one. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Um.
We used to have a thing my girlfriend and I
used to have a thing when I first started sending
emojis to her, or sort of when we first send
my heart emoji and I got it wrong and I
sent the finger emoji, but then didn't. I didn't I

(57:54):
hadn't noticed that I'd hit the wrong thing and just
sent it and then didn't think anything of it. And
then I think she was sort of a bit propled.
It's like, it's really rude. Why would you send that
to me? It doesn't really make sense within the pattern
of what you've been saying. Um. And then for a while,
instead of sending the heart, we would just send each
other the finger instead of like just so we would
never say it would just be this. So if anyone

(58:15):
ever overlooks and saw our conversations, like these people really
don't like each other, but it was quite the opposite. Goodness,
it turns out we really like each other. He's being
so good my microphone. Oh good boy, Dan, good boy.
Oh high stand the cutest nugget leave it. Oh he's

(58:39):
so cross good boy. Yeah, good boy. He's a sweet dude. Um.
I think the of the emojis that I use the
two that I use the most, or like the you know,
the red heart or the face palm emoji, because there's
so many times. Yeah, right, hearts and face palms. That

(59:01):
makes sense. Well, Tom, without further ado, shall we yes?
Shall we move on? Let's to the after party. Let's
Is that what correct thing for us to be doing? Producers? Producer, Yeah, producers,
somebody give us, give us a high sign. Is this
what we're meant to be doing? Because I think I

(59:22):
did I or did I not see something from our
team that said we might oh we can go till
I'm so sorry great, I just saw that texts of
a lot of devices going on. Panic Dan, the panic.
You are such a good boy. Where's your sister? What's
she doing? They're causing some chaos. Oh, okay, how old

(59:44):
is Rajah? So? Dan is four? Just just just just
turned for So Rajah is seven? Rights? Almost? Yeah, Raja's seven,
I think right at the beginning of season to right
right right at the beginning of season two. U. So, yeah,
Rajah will be seven. Wow, sweet girl, it's still going strong. Gone.

(01:00:08):
What was your question? Well, the question that I have
next here is have you listened to the soundtrack and
do you have two favorite songs from it? The soundtrack
from Charons? Yeah, that makes sense based on the topic
of this podcast. That makes sense. Yeah, that's what the
question was. Yeah. Mostly, I don't think I have listened

(01:00:31):
to the soundtrack, you know, I think I Yeah, No,
I don't think I ever have. It's possible that I've
heard a song come up and been like, oh that's cool.
I like this song and haven't really thought where it was,
like where it's come from. But um, yeah, I don't think.
I don't think I have. I don't think I've already
sat down and listen to it to the soundtrack. I

(01:00:53):
do have to two songs from the soundtrack that I
quite love. Um one is fire Me's Fate by Ruel
because Ruel did a lot of the songs for the
show and she's fantastic. But Fireman's Fate is probably one
of my favorites because it's got that real kind of
epic like wolf that comes in and it's you know,
I think someone in the thing just said, Ember, that's

(01:01:14):
your song, and it oh yeah, that's my song. That's
my song that was on the sun. And I was
going to say, being good with current events and like
social popularity stuff, Jesus, Like, my favorite grouping of songs
is from like the Rolling Stones Beatles era from the
last five years. It's super impressive for me. What was

(01:01:35):
your saying? But the other one, the other one that
I was going to say, was Nightshade, which is Alberto's
songs on the Oh yeah, Alberto's songs. I really love
that one. It's very good. It's been on several playlists
of mine. Very good. What else we got questions wise,
let's see here, what's time do we have? We got
like another five minute? We also play a game if

(01:01:56):
you want to pay the game. The game. I wonder
if there's a game that we could play, do we
do it? Would you rather? Because that's quick and simple? Okay, still,
would you rather? Let's do it quick and you all
can answer in the chat as well, because that's you know,
we want to include you all, right, don would you
rather be a steely or a vampire? Thousand really never eat,

(01:02:21):
flood or drink anything else for the rest of your
life for the rest of time because no, no no, because
the rest of time. But that's also not true technically.
First of all, all of these things are avoidable. Like
if you if you if death were if you were
to live your eighty years and decide this is the

(01:02:42):
end of whatever, and you just wanted to watch the
sunrise and that would be the end for you. I
don't know, would get into sort of problematic talk about
what that is. But I also think, like you were
want human, you've become a vampire, and if you wanted
this is this to be, you know, the the span
of your life instead of seeing the people you love,
dyeing whatever, then that choice is sort of their for you. However,

(01:03:07):
I think I would also by the way, I will
say that we've showed Alberto eating food. We showed Alberto
eating tacos and he just had to put a little
bit of blood on them. He could get them down.
You can stand them, so you can still eat food.
It just has to be with blood, which is kind
of gross, But I digress. I think Sealy's first of all,

(01:03:27):
like I have hay fever, I have seasonal allergies, so
I think like flowers and my clothes and like always
being out in the woods would just drive me fucking mental,
Like my eyes and beg everywhere I go. That honestly
would drive me. Like sometimes being in the sea Lee Glade,
the sets would drive me nuts. Imagine the pussy willows everywhere,
everywhere you will the pussy willows. Yeah, which, if you

(01:03:48):
haven't ever go back to the podcast episode whatever, whatever
season two episode might be, Season two episode eleven, all right,
seen two episode one, yes, eleven, one of them, whichever
one it is, go back and find us talking about
pussy willows, because it's just an absolute nightmare. Vampire you

(01:04:09):
get Vampi speed. You get to dress cool, although arguably
you can dress call a zecilia as well, but like
they have cool dress sense for sort for sure. You
just have the sacrifice of being a sun which that
would kind of suck. I don't know. I'm my gut
is telling me vampire, so I'm staying with vampire. All right. Well,
you know you have been a vampire before experience in

(01:04:31):
the cent, so you know, so comfort zone for you.
I guess what about you? I really would say, seriously, Yeah,
I think there's something really interesting and we didn't really
find out a ton about this in the series. We've
learned a little bits, but we didn't really get you
know much, you know, um also political atmosphere constantly. Yeah.

(01:04:57):
I think I think very mysterious beautiful about them, and
I'd love to and the fact that they moved through
space so easily and so much would be very interesting. Yeah.
I agree. Oh that's a really good point that they
all just said. If I bait a shadow hunter a
shadow hunter, yeah, a very specific type of shadow hunter,

(01:05:19):
I will become a daylighter. Will I have to do?
It's fine? One of Simon? Did it could be yea too.
Would it exist in the entire universe though it won't
be too hard to find? Yeah? Yeah, who's the other one?
Clarie and Jays Clary has it as well, yeah, it's
the angelic blood. I don't know that, yep. I mean

(01:05:41):
shot sunlight out of my hand and make portals. Yeah,
and you have the Golden eyes and stuff. It just
manifests itself differently. People, no kidding. This is a good one. Okay,
I got a good one. You're ready be friends with
Clarie or be friends with Jayce? Both? Can't say both.

(01:06:04):
I think it's a safer I think okay, I think
it would be more fun to be friends with Clary,
But I think it would be safer for your life
to be friends with Jase. Probably your mental health as well. Yeah,
because because Clary, I feel like, ends up a lot
of our friends that up, you know, getting killed or
turned various creatures. Um, but jas is kind of grumpy

(01:06:24):
a lot. Jason's grumpy a lot. Yeah. Wow. It started
very jay strong in the comments, and now it's gotten
very mixed. It's gotten very who people who keep writing
both don't understand how the game works. The game is
would you rather? You can't say? I can't say both both.
The answer, by the way, is obviously Jase. Like if

(01:06:47):
it we're talking about with a world the story of
shadow Hunts, these threats exist. Jase is the best soldier
that has existed. Clary comes in and goes, yeah, I
can take this on. I'll take this on on my own. Yeah, no,
no big deal and just gets people murdered all the time.
Obviously is the right answer? Who said Alex? That's somebody

(01:07:09):
in the check So you know what, the real right
answer to this quickness is Simon, because Simon is to
anyone ever in the entire city, Simon is a good friend. Yeah,
and maybe Alberto honestly, but that's not how the game works.
I don't understand. I don't understand how it could be clear.
The title of the game is would you rather? And

(01:07:30):
then you get given two answers. You have to pick
one of those two. It's not who would you be
friends with in the Shadow Hunters, it's not who would
you be friends within the world. It's would you rather
one or two? It's very simple. I don't understand. We
should move on. What's the next one? Oh, let's do one,
and then I do put things up and give Alex's turn.

(01:07:53):
How about this, h would you rather tell a new
porter about the shadow World or Triumphant? That's what I
was just thinking. That's the one I just read and
I was like, Wow, I really don't know how to
answer this. I feel like my instinct is telling me

(01:08:13):
one way, but I feel like that's problematic in a
lot of ways, encouraging people to do something they shouldn't do,
and the other one sort of destroys the lives of
hundreds and hundreds of people. So I think, I think,
if I think for me, it would have to be

(01:08:34):
in fam like, you'd have to do that to protect
the people around you. Yeah, try it once, you know,
do it with the supervision of people around you, and
then lock yourself away and get yourself like off this train,
and then know that you've kept the shadow world safe.
I think that would be that would be the way. Well,

(01:08:57):
it's it's gone very fifty fifty again become the comments
that's wild. Now. I would I would actually tell a
news reporter about the shadow World, because really, out of
ten they won't believe you, and they'll just go, okay,
crazy lady, have a nice day, you know, because that's
again not really the game. It doesn't say, it doesn't

(01:09:19):
seem tell a news reporter with evidence. It doesn't specify
you're correct, it doesn't specify, But I think in the
realm of this game, we're saying, the likelihood is that
the news reporter is then going to tell the world. Okay, fine,
then then the answer is then tell the world about
the shadow world or try again. Then that's okay. Well,

(01:09:41):
that's that's not that's not what's written on the paper,
darm that's nothing. Rather, no, it's not. So that's one
rules the game, according to your rules. The game rules. Fine,
you're right, you're right, I'll take heed fair enough. Oh
my goodness, Well, folks, this has been so amazing, and

(01:10:02):
thank you so much for all of your questions, to
our guests who came in such a wonderful new life
to the show, and to all of you and our
producers for setting this up and helping us to make
all of us possible as well, supporting us through this
and being fantastic. Um you're the best, and he'd thank

(01:10:23):
you to our producers a propagate, to our radios on
the air, and to each and every one of you
for listening and tuning in and continuing this journey with us,
and hopefully a lot of you are joining us as
well for the after party. For the after party hosted
by the one and only or or performed by not

(01:10:44):
we're also hosting, but during it's it's all about Alex Kinsey.
Let's just put it that way. It was our brilliant
and tellented friend and the yeah, the I forget to
completely always supposed to do. So let's go to you've
got the papers in front, hold on, say it on

(01:11:06):
the most Oh no, oh no, we're supposed to hide
our cameras and mute. Yeah, and then and then there's
a mic check and then yeah, now I'm with you.
Now I'm with you. Thank good. This is what it's
really like recording the podcast. It's just most of Dom

(01:11:26):
and I are just figuring out technically this is a nightmare.
Like our producers are saints. They're absolute, like popping bottles
of champagne that this is the last episode for a while,
so they don't have to be No, I'm kidding. It's
been a pleasure. Okay. Now we are going to say
goodbye and then I'm going to do the things that
I was told to do and then we'll see party.

(01:11:50):
Why Yeah, Alex, that's what it is. Welcome back everyone too.

(01:12:34):
I was live. We have a new person. Look at
you pour and I know, but it doesn't have you're
supposed to be doing in the can it has the
little canister in the bottles. It doesn't has something called
widget and it means you don't have to pour it

(01:12:54):
like that. No, but this doesn't do the thing. No,
the widge it stops you from so you don't need to.
But whenever you're pouring a point, you pour it that,
you tilt the glass and you pour it down the
side of the No, the whole way through. I'm sorry, folks,
this is no longer the Shadows. This is obviously. Tom
explains how wrong you have a fifty fifty mix of

(01:13:16):
a Guinness there, which is wrong, which is maybe that's
what he likes. Maybe that's what was my second one.
So yeah, yeah, maybe that helps performance. Hi, everybody, welcome party,
big round of applause to Kinsey, who, now some of
you may know, the brilliant and wonderfully talented else Kinsey

(01:13:37):
compose our theme tune for Return to the Shadows, So
thank you. Before I know, it just has a has
a British that is from a TV show that we
used to have here, which but let's you guys know what,
it doesn't matter. I don't know why I brought it up.
Why what shows it from? It's called Little Britain. It

(01:13:58):
was a very popular show. Well yeah, years and years
and years ago, and then it is now being seen
as very problematic, which sort of get um to be honest,
and it kind of makes sense. So there you go,
by the way. In case anyone is curious why I
keep looking over here, it's because that's where the chat is.
I don't want you to think that I'm just fully
ignoring one very specific spot of something. Stuff slightly to

(01:14:23):
the right, beautiful. It's like it might be the parakeets.
It could be or it could be parakeets. Yeah, you
don't know about the earl A parakeets. Oh the La parakeets.
I thought you specifically had pet parakeets. And I was
about to get very excited. I don't have pets. That
means that I would have to have responsibilities. Oh I see.

(01:14:45):
Oh my goodness, how that guinness taste mostly foam for me? Yeah,
but no fomo, get out there and teach you. No fomo,
that's true. No fomo, that's positive, right, little foamy, But
no fomo, that's I think that's You're going to be
my next album name. I think actually what was what

(01:15:05):
was the one that I loved that I thought was hysterical?
Slightly better than silence? Yep, that was the thing my
entire life. Thanks you could listen to silence, this is
slightly better. I would have learned to say that your
music is more than slightly better than silence. That's just
my personality. Kind of you. That is so kind. Thank you.

(01:15:26):
So you know right, very hard. You you do very well.
I mean this was sort of a no brainer for
us when we were making this podcast and trying to
figure out what the theme tune was going to be
that we were going to, you know, come to you
and ask ask for your help. Thank you appreciate that. Guys,
you are I like theme tune, and I really appreciate this.

(01:15:46):
It's very cool. I've seen I was watching you guys
on the pre after party, which I guess is just
the party, just the party. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I
realized how I mean, I've always known that the show
that Shadow Hunters has had a huge effect on tons
and tons and tons of people, to the point where

(01:16:06):
it's affected me as your friend, just because I'm your friend,
you know, and I love that. It's so cool. I
get to be a part of such a cool community
because I just like you guys. But then hearing y'all
talk about this and reading the chat and seeing how
much the like just talking about the show and getting
people back involved in I don't know, it's really cool
that you guys were able to connect with a brand

(01:16:27):
new group of people and the old group of people
that you've had around for all this time. I don't know,
you guys have done a really great job. Congratulations on
the success and also being two beautiful, beautiful people. Oh
thank you. We just get on microphones and just talk
at each other. It's definitely nice for radio. Yeah, it
was a very podcasting look to him, usting face. In fact,

(01:16:51):
I was terrified when they said we're going to start
using the cameras, and I was like, oh, usual, yeah,
because that's definitely running for you ever right we wow,
Well we love seen you running all unacceptable guys. All right,
let's stick to the script, shall we. Fuckers What it
says in the script that I got to see earlier

(01:17:12):
and I got to vitos some stuff. Yeah, good good lord,
I earlier too, and I got to re un vetos
some stuff similar to the pre after party. Uh huh yeah, yeah,
I like preafter part. Stop vamping you to stop. Now,

(01:17:32):
this is just my job, This is my job. I
just I just I'm slowly back to what we're supposed
to be talking about that. Oh I know, Oh, I know,
just slowly just wheeling him in a little by little
pre Yeah, you will say it like it's a negative thing.
I'm boring, would your lives? Yeah, that is true, That

(01:17:53):
is very true. I always say this about shadow Hunters.
I'm so glad I had all of view. And this
includes you too, Kinsey, during that time in my life
because I really needed someone in my life to push
me a little bit, to try things new and step
out of my comfort zone and you know, take some
risks in life. And that was all of you, guys,
because you created a safe space to take risks and

(01:18:16):
have fun and live a little We make cat drink
to say, did make cat drink drunk? Chas? Look at
her now? Who knows? Now she well, Um, let's get
back that we were talking about. Um before anyone says
anything terrible, why don't you tell us what it was

(01:18:38):
like writing the theme tune. I remember, I remember calling you.
I was in Santa Barbara when I called you yeah
and said, we've had this idea, Um, would you be
willing to sit down and maybe write something? You know,
my friends, of the people that I know who I
could ask to do this, and arguably arguably of the
people that I would ask in the world if I

(01:18:59):
knew any body, you were on the top of that
list too, because I've seen what you can do and
how you can compose, compose and create very good computer
develop things that are very thematic to what you know
the sources. So um to me that you were the choice,
you were graciously accepted, and then tell us what the
process was after that. Thanks, man, that's really kind. It's

(01:19:20):
funny that you say composer because a lot of people have, um,
not a lot of people, but a lot of people
that I've worked with have sort of asked, you know,
are you artist? Are you writer? Are you producer? And
I don't. I mean, I'm definitely all of those things
to some degree. But then I realized, I guess I'm
more of a composer than anything, because like that creation
of a sound and figuring out what needs to happen
sonically and to emote, like to get you to emote

(01:19:44):
the right feelings and to sort of connect in the
right way. That's always been the thing that made me
feel really good, was that part of music making. So
when you guys asked me to do this, it was
really Honestly, I've never done anything with such little lyrics,
and also I never done anything that was like, hey,
you know, it's very this is a very thematic show.
It's very very specifically this so if you could kind

(01:20:08):
of follow that theme, I don't know that it was
an interesting ask, but I was really excited to get
into it, and I don't know, I listened to a
lot of what was played on the show. I listened
to a lot of honestly, just the type of instruments
was that. That was a big part of it, is
finding the right synth sounds and the right bass sounds
and getting the guitar to sound right because it's a

(01:20:29):
very ethereal type vibe, you know. So yeah, I don't know,
it was it was fun to find that and tweak
it and get the right sounds. And then, honestly, I
listened to a bunch of podcast themes songs as well
prior to doing that, and I was like, why do
we say anything other than return to the shadows? Right?
And then Kat, you came over, and I mean, honestly,
what we do three takes of return? But yeah, we

(01:20:51):
spent a total of thirteen minutes recording it. That's what
I was gonna say. I don't even think we've spent
thirteen minutes recording it. I think you spent thirteen minutes
from getting out of your car to getting back into
your car. That's true, in your house so quick, which
was great. Honestly. It made it so easy because then
we had like a bunch of things to choose from.
I didn't have to go and tune and edit. No,
it was great. It was right there. I got to

(01:21:12):
pull from it, and you nailed it first try. And
you did nothing. You just sat back and you came
up with the idea of having me. You actually you're
in the cho have known each other without me. You
wouldn't have a show without me. You're my friend. This
is how we connected you it. Yeah, and and now

(01:21:34):
I'm so knowledgeable, dude, I know everything about the show.
It's true. Everything you read all the books, right, and
just such a I've wanted the last scene of every
episode like four times. The very last scene, you guys

(01:21:54):
are all together for one final moment, and then it
cuts to black. No, no, wrong, Well, well if he
means all actually Kinsey, by all, you mean all here,
like the two of us, right, all I only know here,
guys say, oh, I don't think of Alberto and what
I don't even know their other names? Honest, Alberto, the one,

(01:22:16):
the other one your friends with Matt. I think involved
set lots of mats. Yeah, at once was in it.
Yeah that again, we did it very d We should
have put that again. Wonderful, wonder very well done. Um.

(01:22:39):
But actually so since we're on the theme and on
all of that, if you guys want, I can show
you just a quick breakdown of like stuff. Yes, please, yeah, everything.
He just Alex Kinsey Master's class. This is what we want?
Is it? Hold on one second while I get it working.
I took a stab with the tech. We took a

(01:23:01):
We took a real stab that the tech was going
to be on our side. We really really did. Okay,
hold on, We're gonna try this and you might get
a little look behind the curtain, but we're gonna try
to not let you have a look behind the curtain.
All right, let's see. Are you guys seeing the screen? Nope, no,
anyone is anyone on the stream seeing the screen? What

(01:23:25):
about the yeah? Hey, well it's hey, look at that.
It was a quick scroll too far. We're gonna scroll
back now we're good, so good, I'll I'll just show
you guys a quick So this is this is what
a basic production thing looks like, if you guys are
ever getting into it. I don't know what you're seeing. Cat,
what are you seeing right now? I'm seeing your screen?

(01:23:48):
That is a riverside? Oh you are okay, that's not
what I clicked. Oh well, that is not at all
what I clicked. Let's stop that. Yeah, that was a
lot of seventeen screens within screens with us. It's we're
trying something new. Why we decided to do this on
live not a single person. We all knew this was

(01:24:09):
going to happen, Not a single person. When there's much
more time. Now what now, what are you seeing? It's
loading loading? Yeah, that's the one, great, great, great great great. Okay,
So now this is what it's supposed to look like.
This is a basic sort of logic. This is like
all the sounds, everything that you're seeing here. All these guys,
these are all sounds, and uh, I have everything muted

(01:24:31):
because I wanted to kind of break it down a
little bit quickly. I'm going to turn the mic over
over toward the speaker so you can hear it better.
But right, I think that I'm pretty sure. I started
with this sounds, so this is a synth sound. And
we did like so like when we were talking about

(01:24:54):
ethereal and kind of spooky, that's you know, yeah, that's
about as ethereal and spooky as we can get. And
then we went with a little bit yeah, right, you
know what I'm saying, and then with a little bass.
I don't know what that was. I really did build

(01:25:15):
the track sort of from start to finish. So we
started with less and then as we went we got
a little bit more. So all fast forward a little
bit here and you can see that, like, you know,
now we've got a few more colors happening, a few
more sounds happening, and this was sort of the next progression,
the next normal progression for what should happen. So there's
a little bit of a build and the music, you know,
because there has to be something that builds and starts

(01:25:38):
small gets bigger. So the storytelling right, like storytelling exactly,
it's not even a version of storytelling. It is storytelling
on um. So here we go. So here's just some

(01:26:03):
like percussion that's in the background, and then it starts
getting bigger and bigger. So then we're going to fast
forward a little bit too, like when it all kind
of picks up here and uh now this is like,
this is all of it together. This is basically the
entire track without Cat's vocals, all put into one thing.
So here's kind of the build up and essentially the apex,

(01:26:28):
the crescendo. You might say, that's sort of lean melody
with these sounds. That's guitar and just like messed up
and tweaked. And then it gets even bigger here with

(01:26:48):
some more drums. Let's see, I think these are some
drums down here. So we've got all that going. It's
at it all in. Then let's do let's do the
best part of it all. Here's what we can do

(01:27:10):
is you guys just want to hear Cat first before
all the sound it sounds. Let's do it. Yeah, oh yeah,
we did harmonies. I forgot some harmonies I threw a
low one in there just so we had a nice
full sound, but then with everything so that you guys

(01:27:33):
can kind of hear how it goes. Here's how it
all sounds together. Not that you haven't already heard that,
I know, but it is nice to kind of see

(01:27:53):
it all come together like that, right, But honestly, yeah,
brilliant minding to see. Yeah, no kidding, Like, there's so
many elements of that that I without you picking them out.
I think I'm sure the song is would sort of
sound empty without like the bassline in it, But until
you picked it out, I didn't know that was in there.
And it's fun, dude, as a musician, That's honestly like
what I do most of the time when I'm listening

(01:28:14):
to music, which it kind of makes music tough to
listen to sometimes because I'm consummate. I'm sure sure you
guys are watching it's a fucking nightmare watching TV with me,
like that was a green screen. You're like, how do
you know when? Why did you just ruin that for me?
Like point right? Need to know that? Come on, well,
because you pick out so many elements when you've been
behind McCurtain, you know how it works. You know how

(01:28:36):
the sausage is made, and it's I always know when
i'm watching a good film because I forget. I didn't
love that idiom that I didn't like the sausage. How
the sausage is made like that. Okay, I'm sorry, but
I offended. It just weirded me out. How the vegan
sausage is made. Um, You're welcome, but I've got an issue.

(01:28:58):
I don't know how that's made. Isn't it an issue
though that you say that that I mean that that's
like a phrase how the sausage is made to say, like, oh,
you don't want to know about things That sausage gross? Exactly,
I don't because I don't know how it was made.
Way to go. I'm very proud. I know how it
was made, and I generally don't eat it. Um No,
But I always know when I'm watching a good film

(01:29:19):
or good TV show because I forget and I don't analyze,
Oh what kind of shot was that? I wonder what
lens that was, or oh this person clearly did this,
or that wardrobe's interesting, or yeah, you know whatever it
is exactly, and I think that and it probably happens
with you guys in acting too, because you guys will
act in a very specific genre, if not for your

(01:29:39):
whole career, at least for a small portion of it
here and there, and you'll do like roles that seem
to kind of I don't know you guys specifically, but
you guys as actors seem to take roles that you know,
complement each other. Yeah in some cases, and yeah, not
always of course, but in some but and then in music,
and it's getting less and less this way, but we're
all very genre based, and then listening to something outside

(01:30:01):
of our genre sometimes makes is like the best way
to not analyze it. And I'm curious like you guys,
you know, like watching comedic movies, because the few things
that I do know about Shadow Hunters, I know that
it was not like hilarious all the time, No, no,
very few elements. So did mostly cry. Yeah, I did

(01:30:23):
notice a lot of crying and like a lot of
like very serious whisper talking. It's like, oh yeah, yeah,
shadow on the voice close to the mic, and you
gotta talk like this if we're gonna talk like a
shadow Hunter, damn it, this kind of shu. Yeah, it's
pretty close. Yeah, you go really seriously and you just
like squint and you just you need like a little
more intensity, like you've been yelling for a lot of
your life, you know what I mean. Sure, Like that's

(01:30:46):
where a lot of Jas's came from. It came from
like a guttural like it was the sound in the
back of his throat. It was like a dangerous like
he was the front lines for most of his life yelling.
He was telling people where to be, and that's where
that came. Oh my gosh, wow, that's why it's switch. Sorry. Sorry, yeah,
good apologies. Yeah, but I'm here. The first time. The

(01:31:07):
first time I heard that voice was in my screen
test and I'd never heard Dom do an American accent
before and he flipped into that and I was like, whoa,
whoa You had known him as the British darm Yeah, yeah,
I am curious though. I am curious, though, are you Guys?

(01:31:29):
Like when you watch a Seth Rogan movie, and it's
easier than to a movie, like especially a comedy. I
think it's easier to escape because you're like a lot
of these comedies are based on what these characters do.
Like if you're watching a Kevin Hart movie. You know,
certain yut this like he's going to hit certain points.

(01:31:53):
So that's quite interesting to watch because you're like, I'm
not necessarily expectant of anything, so I can just sort
of sit back and relax and know that I'm on
like a Will Ferrell ride or a Seth rogen right
or Keevin heart right or whatever. But then, interestingly, when
one of those people switches it and subverts it and
does something quite dramatic. I just watched I can't remember
what it was cool, but Kevin Hart plays a single

(01:32:14):
father in it. I god, what was the name of
that movie? I can't remember, but and it's on the
way through. But then he has these moments where like
and I was like bawling my eyes out, and it
completely took me away from that and I wasn't analyzing
it at all. It was actually like a shock to
my system, which was quite I think it's the same
as you're saying when you're switching genres and then they

(01:32:35):
throw something in there that they know is within their realm,
but you didn't know that sure, like, oh wow, this
is an interesting thing. Like I'm seeing shades of red
in a painting that I thought was going to be
predominantly blue, and it's it's entrancing. That's cool. That's a
really cool thought that it's someone maybe that isn't doing

(01:32:56):
a different genre, but you're just expecting you're not expect, right,
that's a cool thought. Yeah, it's like when does a
rap and you're like, oh, that was actually kind of
sick totally Yeah, similar sort of thing. Anyway, what have
we got on next? I think we should unless this
is something that's supposed to happen later on. No, do
you want to do you want to sing a song
for us? Dude? Yeah? We would love for you. Yeah. Performance,

(01:33:22):
This is why I'm here. That's why we stick around,
all right, So why we came to the after party,
that's for sure why I'm here. That's right. Can you
guys hear this? Yeah? Cool? So I don't know, do
you guys wanna dom? I know that hot Mess is
like one of your favorites, but I love that song.

(01:33:45):
Should I do hot Mess? But there is also a
new one that you did mention. It's your call, so
but you know what, it's up to you. What what
do you want people to hear? Hot Mess? People have
heard and people have requested hot mess in the chat.
But the new one if we want to hear, like,
is it out yet? The new one is? It's a
world premiere performance, world premiere, a world premiere public. All right, well,

(01:34:09):
why don't we will vamp for a couple of seconds.
Guys listening? We have two choices. We have hot mess
and then we have a song called straight No? Is
it called straight No? It's called the Death of Me,
which is the most We have a song called the
Death of Me which has never been heard before. It
is very intense, but it's a very it's actually a
very lovely song. Most people are just saying both yea. Again,

(01:34:32):
that's not what we were. That's not how the game works.
This was a would you rather guys? This? He was
I don't know what what you guys were talking about? Yeah,
what's the first s? What's the sely like that? XI? No?

(01:34:52):
I don't know, but that sounds kind of nice. Yeah,
the new song is one for sure? You are you
happy to play the new song? Mmm? I would love to.
There are some interesting iterations. People type really quickly in
comments because they want to get what they're saying across
really quickly, So there's some interesting iterations. Of like there
were a couple that were just death. I'm assuming that

(01:35:13):
meant death of me. We're going to take something drasticum.
They're like, Alex, get off the stream. We hate you
no more likely to one of us. They've overheard us
now and they're done. Yeah, no, okay, Well then okay,
I'll do that. I'll do death of me. And this
is not This isn't a sad song. This is honestly,
I genuinely think that this is my favorite song I've

(01:35:36):
ever written, only second to Parakeets, which just recently came
out last year. Definitely go and check out Parakeets, by
the way, it's beautiful. Thanks buddy. Yeah, I really love
that song, But this is kind of I don't know.
This song is very special to me. It means a lot,
and I hope that you guys like it. You commit

(01:36:07):
deep with your eyes when we speak about nothing in particular.
It's amazing, killing me quick with a look that you give.
I'm calling it quits at the end the party. You
who got me on my knees. I don't believe in
any God, but I can keep you in my prayers tonight.

(01:36:30):
You who everything I need, who needs help when I
got it every time I got your hand in mind. God,
this feeling about you, who they being without you would
be the death of me. God, this feeling about you,
who they being without you would be the death of me?

(01:36:53):
And I over my got this feeling about you, the
being without you be the death of me. You give
me high on your analysts supply of the Subchius got

(01:37:14):
touched my skin, and I'm you who got me on
my knees. I don't believe in any God, but I
can keep you in my prayst tonight. You boooo everything
I need? Who needs heaving? When I got it every
time I got your hand in mind, got this feeling
about you, they being without you be the death of me.

(01:37:40):
Got this feeling about you, the being without you will
be the death for me, and I over my head,
my head, got this feeling about you, that being methought
you would be the death of me. Something along those lines. WHOA,

(01:38:08):
oh my gosh, Alex, that was beautiful, unbelievable. I'm glad
we went with me too. I really like that song.
It's yeah, that's a really beautiful song. It's so beautiful.
I just I just think you're great, and I don't know.
It's great. There's there's something amazing about seeing your friend

(01:38:29):
and somebody really care about doing something amazing and doing
what they love, and it's it's just well, that's how
I feel about you guys. Honestly. I get to watch
you guys do what you love anytime I want on
Netflix currently, So yeah, yeah, yeah, Kat, You're also on
CW right, yes, yea yeah, Walker Independence. We just finished

(01:38:52):
our first season, just finished airing, soiting, exciting. It's by
the way, no idea. We can talk about this later
before it's just about to give away so much industry
ship and I'm like, wait, no, no, no no, no, no
no no no no no no no no, we should
do we can't cut things out. Is I don't know

(01:39:14):
any information. I don't know anything new, genuinely, it sounds
like I'm backtracking now, which I am a little but
an information. It's more just like we know how the
industry has worked this year, and we have sort of assumptions.
We have assumptions based on how the industry has been
flowing this year. Predictions are assumptions, predictions, fictions, predictions and assumptions. Indeed,

(01:39:37):
now I have a question for you because we get Tom,
I've asked so enough questions tonight, I'm gonna do you
really bother that she was asking you one more question?
My god, Oh dam I have like twenty thousand more
questions for you. So just you, just you and my
mom and Decay can get together and try and figure

(01:39:59):
me out out. I would love to get together with
your mom anytime. I think she's brilliant. I love getting
together with your mom. I'm gonna punch you in your mouth.
She said a nice thing, and you made it such
a horrible brotherly thing to say. Anyway, Kinsey, do you
have any advice because Tom and I get asked all

(01:40:21):
the time for advice for people coming into the industry,
and but from your perspective, do you have any advice
for anyone listening who wants to pursue music as a
career or songwriting or composing or anything of the like. Yeah,
I do. I think that this is going to probably
be not the most uplifting thing that you've heard initially,
but be prepared to, like not always be stoked. And

(01:40:45):
then every once in a while you get something incredible
that happens and it makes up for all that, and
that's really what you live for. But like people I
think moved to LA and get into acting and getting
to singing and songwriting and all that stuff, expecting it
to just be like the most fun thing all the time.
And let me be the first person to tell you
that it can be. It can be the most fun

(01:41:05):
thing all of the time. But sometimes it just isn't.
Sometimes it is a job. Sometimes it's something that like hurts,
and sometimes it's something that is incredibly elating, and it's
just like this insane, beautiful moment, and sometimes it's this awful,
terrible moment, and you just have to be okay with
those without going like I think I'm done, you know,

(01:41:26):
like that's that's my most that's my actual, like real life.
If I meet you on the street and I'm not
on camera, advice this next bit, I'm not laughing you, sorry.
I just read one of the comments then it made
mean chuckle. It says it says Alex is funnier than Dominum.
Doesn't like it. Kelly Kaylin kaylin ka kay I think Kaylyn,

(01:41:52):
I got through twenty buckets after this. Don't you worry yet?
That actually is my mom. That's actually my mom who
posted that she was watching saying a thing. But yeah,
that's that's I'm she knows what's but so then my
other good advice. I think that this is like happy advice,
because I don't want to let end it on a

(01:42:12):
sad note after a song called Death of Me. I
want to also say that as long as you do
the thing in your craft that makes you the happiest,
as long as you're constantly creating because you have to,
because you love it, because there's no other option for you,
because the only way to express the things that are
destroying your insides is to get them out of you,

(01:42:33):
then you're on the right path. Do that every time always.
That's my happy advice is stick to your gut, stick
with your heart, and make whatever it is that you
need to create to get it out. Yeah. That's agree
very much, say absolutely. I second that wholeheartedly. Yeah, well, gentlemen,
should we play one more game before we go? Yeah?

(01:42:56):
I haven't gotten to play anything play a game with us,
So I I love this game and I thought this
was a great idea. We sort of have died this
on the show one day, and I think it would
be fun to continue. So you're familiar with the concept
of parabetide. There are two brothers in arms who are
bonded together on a on an emotional, physical, metaphysical level,

(01:43:18):
who go forth and kind of amplify each other's powers. Um,
you've got a couple of examples immediately after. By the way,
I really am very appreciative. You didn't get an opportunity
to go right. She knew, she goes. You are familiar
with parabetites obviously this Yeah, yes, of course. So Batman
and Robin is an example. Or you know betaf Like
and Matt Damon would be another example. Or you know

(01:43:40):
two people at Mario and Luigi, Shrek and Donkey. All
these examples of folks that work really well. That's so unfair.
This is a cheat sheet capes on the chee. I
didn't I have it too. Sorry I didn't list all
of them. I left a coup there's two more is

(01:44:02):
one I don't agree with. Okay, but you're smart enough
you can come up with your own I believe in you.
I'm trying. I'm doing the best. Someone said dom and Alberto,
and that's really cute. There you go. See. I would
say I would say I should read the books. I
should read you know Gus, Gus and Jacques, the two

(01:44:22):
little mice from Cinderella the animated movie. They get along
and they work well together and amplified and empowers world.
In no world would I have picked that. So they
have to amplify each other. I like about you. You
have to make each other better. You have to explore
and like, yeah, wait, what's the game? I'm thinking about things.
I don't even know what the rules are yet, ye,

(01:44:44):
any things in the real world, or like two fancasty characters,
or like peanut butter banana, perfect example, peanut butter and
jelly is a good one. Peanut butter and banana. I
don't know if I agree. Well, then I think that
I'm going to go. Now, Abby and Katie has come
up a lot, and what does that mean? No, this

(01:45:06):
is this is Walker independence so my character, and there's
a there's a woman on the show who's Kate, and
their their partners in crime, and you know it. Yeah, Laura,
thank you very much for putting Abby Walker and Kate
just after I said that, too fucking late, already made
a fool of myself. It's too late, already happened. It

(01:45:27):
was also I appreciate Dom and Dan has come up
a lot which is very sweet. Yeah, that's Simon. Pumba
is a great one. Such a good one, Simon and
Raphael pretty good. Yeah, put nutella and banana. Oh my god,
did you stella? Did you see me say new teller?
Have you? And I had this teller? Like an American?

(01:45:48):
Did you say? Yeah? I said nutella? Yeah, like an American?
They say metella? Who tell everyone else Americans say tella?
I say ntella? Never? Never, one time in my entire
life have I made a U and O this is
why we never I've never done that that. It doesn't

(01:46:10):
make any sense. And I'll tell you for why. Because
it's a nut based spread. Ah, that makes a good explanation.
It's not a new face bread photo. And Sam Stephen
Lucky is a great one. Stephen Bucky is a good one.
That one actually, Oh, Steve Rogers and Bucky Yeah, what

(01:46:34):
was that one? Did you get? Ben? And Ella? I
liked and Ella like? Nutella's pretty good? And and Deck
we've got some British guys in here, and and Deck
appreciate you guys. Yeah, you guys won't know what that is.
But their talk show hosts over here that have been
doing it since. I was like, they be like the
two Han and Chewy sort of, Han and Cheese is

(01:46:57):
the game one that's from the chat. That's not me
pretty much. Notice Sonia and Harriet, thanks for saying that.
That's a Maze Runner thing. That's me and Um. I
don't know if you know, Natalie Emmanuel. Our characters were
like together in the maze and we were the only survivors.
And it's a that's yes. I like Kermit and Fozzy.

(01:47:20):
That one makes me feel. I like people get and
they write the first one and then and and then nothing. Listen,
shit fuck Um. I like Ben and Jerry, by the way,
that's I second Ben and Jerry. Tom and Jerry's pretty
good as well, tom Ry. What about Judy and Bird

(01:47:42):
Cat and puns Judy and Bird You guys don't watch
Judge Judy. Oh no, Merlin and Arthur. That's a good one. Wood, Buzz,
Wood and Buzz. They are Dan and Raja. Okay, I
have to call it quits on Dan and Raja. They

(01:48:03):
are not parabatized. I've just learned what a parabatize and
Dan and Raja are not that this puzz Oh my gosh,
I'm sure they move. I'm so sure they move. I
don't know if anyone can hear me because the microphones
too far away. But I'm so sure they move. I
knew that at least Pinky and Brain. Romeo and Juliet.

(01:48:25):
Someone just put Romeo and Juliet. Now we're just listing
pairs of people. Let me tell you about a question.
But see, they can't they catch romantically? Yes, I have
Can it be three people? No? Yeah, I don't think yes.
Why I don't think it's just the rules. Well, because

(01:48:45):
he's making the rules the clave, and they're very just
said Mason Pollard, which is my character in a race.
But then with no one man just and Scooby such
a good one. Um. Yeah, and they also can't be
romantically involved, because that's good. Well. But also, if we

(01:49:06):
want to talk about people who make each other stronger,
Romeo and Juliet, let's talk about Romeo and Juliet for
a second. Romeo and Juliet was Jeff Murphy in itself.
That's pretty funny. Um. Romeo and Juliet is heralded as
maybe one of the greatest love stories of all time.
The truth is Romeo and Juliet is about two underage
people three days and caused the death of six people. Yeah,

(01:49:28):
that's Romeo and ju Yeah they did emply to the powers.
I like C three PO and R time anyone. I
can't pay attention. It's so crazy one I just my
brain goes, I'm gonna buy you. I'm gonna buy you
the four works, the complete works. Fine, the folio that

(01:49:51):
I'm going to read it to you with a Floridian
translation as well. Oh okay, now we're talking. And then
the gator came on out of the swamp and stared
himself in the heart right at the very even So
did you know this is interesting? You know? So there
would be no then this happened. Then whatever Shakespeare won't
won't Shakespeare? Shakespeare wo Shakespeare every time Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote

(01:50:21):
direction in all of his place ever one stage direction.
Everything else is dialogue. And what was it? Do you
want to know? It's mental? Do you want to know? Yeah,
I know what it is, and it is mentally. Go on,
I'll be very impressed if you get it. Isn't it
excits pursued by bear. It's excellent pursued by bear. But

(01:50:43):
so close? Yes, correct, it's excellent. You could have given
her that. No, like like you could have given her that. No,
dam doesn't give me anything that's true, anything for any
of us. Do you just call me John's been ten years,
we've been friends, John. I said it like I said, John,

(01:51:06):
like tube that John letters, that's so fast. Just wrong,
that's just fully wrong. We got on this show for
Alex and Alana. That's all. That's very sweet together. Christian
and Rose from Vampire Academy. I don't know what movie

(01:51:28):
you watched. I don't think so. I disagree fervently. Christian
and Lissa. I get that. Christian and Rose probably not
so much. Somebody said Christian and Fire, which I thought
was My fashion has been to quote Hamlet, Act three,
scene three, line eighty seven. No, I'm gonna start texting people.

(01:51:50):
That's pretty that's really fun. It's pretty good. Yeah, oh yeah,
oh man, for sure. Well, folks, this has been so fun.
Is there anything else we want to do? This this
has been Is there anything else we'd like to do
or discuss, or talk about or say before we wrap

(01:52:13):
up the seve I think we should say thank you.
I think you're right. I think collectively we should say
thank you to each other. We've been on this journey together.
Thank you Kinsey a love Cap, my co host, my
co producer, to our fellow producers, thank you for being
with us on this. Like we said, we've been doing
this for almost, if not just over a year. Yeah,

(01:52:34):
and it's been a real pleasure. It's been a real
pleasure to revisit something that was such a defining moment
in my life, and it has been a real pleasure
to share that with so many people who care about
it as well. So thank you to all of you,
and thank you to a moment. Thank you too, my
heart to Propagate, to everyone who made this possible, and
all of you for joining us. It's it's been such

(01:52:56):
a lovely journey and we so appreciate love and the questions,
and uh, we're gonna keep doing it if you'll have us.
I'm just happy to be here. Okay, Can I propose
something I would love to do? You can't propose. You
can't propose over zoom. No, you can't propose over zoom.

(01:53:19):
I tried it with Nell. It's not how it happens.
I keep posting. Yeah, it's like I'm on like time twelve. Yeah,
I like texted. She was like, nah, I texted I
wanted to just the ring emoji and a question marks.
She's like, no, no, but I would I would like

(01:53:40):
to suggest. Yeah, I'd like to suggest something. If you
two are open to it, please, I think it would
be fun one of these days for us to pick
an episode or a compilation of best up clips of
a few episodes and bring you kinsey on to watch
it and do a someone who's not involved and hasn't
seen every episode doesn't one hundred percent of the world commentary,

(01:54:04):
Oh shit, I have a secondary proposal, not proposal, because
weren't allowed to do that's a secondary suggestion. Why don't
we also do the bloopers? Yes, that's how you get
to figure out like real like in my opinion, that's
always how you figure out like that person, like that
person's good fun or like oh that person had a

(01:54:25):
real tough day, or what you can really see, like
you know, like you want it seem like you want
to expose somebody, like like I'm in them so much
from being like anymore who you don't like and it's me,
like I'm always the one who's like breaking. Are there
any sprinting? No? They cut all of those out. They
actually took the reels and burnt them because of you.

(01:54:48):
Thank God. Yeah, thank greates come out at some point,
but not today. We've got nothing to leave. Something out
there that's something to the imagination that said deathbed confession
is like I have an SD card. It's buried six
feet in the yard behind stepping stone number four. It's

(01:55:10):
dom running. It's just slow mos of zoomed in Donmouth, Wally.
That is the death of you right there. It's titled
the Death of don Yeah. Oh man, gentlemen, this has
been so wonderful. Thank you so much for making my
evening just light up. Thank you guys. And it's only

(01:55:33):
like three o'clock. This is great. We will reconvene fairly soon.
I have to make a phone call after this and
then we should. You know what I'm saying. I do,
but I don't know that anyone else does. Dames. Video games.
I'm hoping everyone got it was either video games or
going We're gonna go milk our cows wrong, just incorrectly.

(01:56:00):
We just got to guess all of the new it's
we're new to new to moving to move as you
milked so funny I'm into it now. I'm not going

(01:56:24):
to play a cow. No. Well, if they were speaking English,
you'd probably be a little more inclined, wouldn't you maybe,
But I don't know. If I can be then it's
very true. Greg, can you milk? He's like, yeah, cats
of the things that have milked me. Yeah. Yeah. All right,

(01:56:49):
it's enough. We're gonna go the podcast. I love you guys,
Thank you so much for everything. Have a good evening.
Return to the Shadows is hosted and an executive produced
by Me, Katherine McNamara, and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer

(01:57:12):
is Lingley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia.
Our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermillia, and our
intern is Sam Katz. Original music by Alex Kinsey and
performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara.

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