September 25, 2025 • 54 mins
Folks, we got us a card sharp. Canada Bill Jones was a three card monte guy, taking rubes for their cash on trains and riverboats across the heart of America. Oddly principled and unrepentant, ol' Bill is a con artist for the ages.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Zaren Elizabeth Zaron, Get over here, I'm here, I'm here questions.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Should I sit down?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
No?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stay stay standing? Okay, you know it's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
I do.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So. You know I've told you recently that that story
about uh Keith Richards and John Lennon, right, Well, I
did some research and I was bumping around in the
Rolling Stones. I found something interesting about Mick Jagger and uh,
you know he was married to Jerry Hall, the model
for like a long time. Yes, well they were made
for about twenty three years, and apparently she got really
tired of all the like infidelities on his part. Yeah,
(00:35):
and she's like, look, you're a sex addict. Oh and
he's like yeah, probably right. And so he's like, you
need to go to therapy and deal with this if
we're going to stay together. So Mick agreed. He's like, yeah,
I'll do that, you know whatever. So he goes and
h turns out he seduced his sex therapist. Stop it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So he just like did the chicken walk?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Can strutten over? She's like, I gotta have some of that.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
All I think about with Mick Jagger is that John
mullaney bit about how when he was hosting Saturday Night Live,
how he was deciding what, you know, skits they should do,
and John Mulaney would pitch one and Mick Jagger would say,
not funny.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I thought that for.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You, not funny. That's ridiculous, right, seducing.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Going to for help? Who is a sex therapist? Like
she knows this is the one thing I cannot do well.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But you know, I guess she's got she's got weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, let me see what made those lips smile.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
For some reason? These the ladies, they can't resist them.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, he got the leading man itis.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I guess he's so like that doesn't matter. It's like
a dancing skeleton totally, that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's you're not really drawn to like the physical forms charm,
it's the attitude.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hands on the hips, yeah, the est pout, Yeah, not funny.
Do you know what else is ridiculous?
Speaker 6 (02:04):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I do not making people.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Believe they can win an unwinnable game, over and over
and over. This is ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd
(02:37):
and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety nine
percent murder free. And one hundred percent ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Oh you damn right, I know I am. Are you
familiar with Alan Pinkerton?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Do you want me to not cuss and go off
on a rant and tirage pretend I'm familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I was just born. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I think he was in maybe the last century or two, saren.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
He was one of the most significant figures in American
law enforcement and private security.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Why is that, Elizabeth? Whatever did he do?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Let me tell you? You know? Oddly enough?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Yes, he was a product of the Deer Green Place,
my home away from home, Glasgow, Scotland.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh really, he was a Glaswegian.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'd explain some of his tenacity.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
He was born there in eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Okay, why did they get rid of him? They do?
What he was like?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think you're going to be interested. So his dad
was a police search I guessed that.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
And he died when Alan was young, and he left
the family struggling. I mean, not on purpose, but you
know who knows. Maybe so Alan he trained as a cooper,
not a copper, oh, to make barrel cooper exactly, a
barrel maker, and he became active in the Chartist movement.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
What is that I thought maybe you'd know it's working
class agitation for political reform.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, I'm trying to play a long.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
So okay, so all these workers right, they want workers right,
they want you know, it's not just labor issues, but
for those like just the working yes, and just you know,
votes and all sorts of other stuff. So he gets
really into the chartists, and his political activism brought him
into conflict.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
With the authorities, you know, as it does.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
He went up against the Glasgow cops and maybe didn't
always go so great for him.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, I imagine they used the billy clubs too. Oh.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Probably.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
In eighteen forty two he'd had enough. He immigrated to
the US with his wife. You got run out of town.
They settled in Chicago after spending a little bit of
time in Canada.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So they jumped over the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Common understand the Scots to go to Canada America.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yes, yes, And he at first he worked as a
cooper again in Dundee township near Chicago, so he had
to stick with the Scottish connection Dundee.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So he's orbiting Chicago and one time, just by chance,
he's out in the woods looking for wood because that's
where they keep woods.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That is true in the best place.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
That's the name he wants to He's like, I got
to build a barrel, dude, and held raw material. It
goes out there and he finds a counterfeitters camp. I
don't know why I enunciated that so hard.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I maybe really wonder what was.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Very formal counterfeit A gang counterfeitters camp. You know, I'm
trying not to allide over everything all the time and
slur my speed because remember when we first started doing this,
and that guy said that if you play the show
on like seven point seventy five or halftime, I sound
completely drunk and you sound normal.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Because I talk so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, anyway, I don't remember what.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
People said like that about that. You do. I don't
you can remind me of what people say about It.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Lives in my head, but I make it pay rent.
He finds his counterfeitters camp eighteen forty seven.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We're talking money counterfeiting, right, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
He he channeled his dad and he helped the authorities
arrest the counter and he gained this reputation for vigilance.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And also, I'm going to guess as.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
A narc exactly like Yan.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
So he gets appointed as a result of this, like
a couple of years later, he's appointed the first police
detective in Chicago in eighteen forty nine detection. They had
just lance committee. Yes, and now they're like, how about.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You, you nark, Yeah, we're gonna be you can't.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Mind your own business, you go detect. So eighteenth Chicago
the first.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's crazy. Wow.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And so eighteen fifty the next year, he founded the
Northwestern Police Agency, later renamed the Pinkerton National Detective Agents. Yes,
now my question what happened at the Chicago PD that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
After a year they're like, a year, you should do
this privately.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, maybe like settle down there, but.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
We don't want to pay you for this.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
No. So the agency's logo was this wide open eye
with the motto we never sleep. Yes, ominous, but that's
where we get the phrase private eye.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah. So the firm they specialized.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
In railroad security, and then they added in like pursuit
of fugitives and then later little dash of strike breaking,
little which is rich considering what got him in trouble
as a lad.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Thank you. I didn't want to get into all that, but.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean like that. Yeah, so come on, now.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
He's like you know what, I know what pays. Well,
it's like you know.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You change as you get older.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
So the Pinkerton Agency became the most prominent private detective
service in nineteenth century America. Yes, and the name became
synonymous with like brutal private detectives and strongmens and strike breaking, oh,
strike breaking and operating outside of the law and yet
be thinking they are the law exactly. So eighteen sixty one,
(07:48):
Pinkerton he uncovered a plan.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
They're like goons and suits.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Total goons, total goons. He found out that someone who's
going to try and assassinate President elect Abraham Lincoln, Yes,
in Baltimore, a Balmore during his you know trip to Washington,
d C. So Lincoln Chicago, right, so that like he
then Pinkerton organizes it. So Lincoln arrives in secret, and
(08:12):
he referred to it as the Baltimore Plot, and he
was able to foil it. During the Civil War, he
served as head of the Union Intelligence Service, so that's
like the pre secret service. He organized espionage networks behind
Confederate lines, although a lot of times his reports like
overestimated the.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Confederate troop strength. Course, but like after the war.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
The agency became famous for pursuing criminals like the Reno Gang,
the James Younger Game, and then Butch Cassidy's Wild Bunch.
Of course, so by the eighteen seventies, oh, he is,
he is, he's got star power. Eighteen seventies, eighteen eighties,
they're like, really.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
That's when they get into the strike breaking.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yes, and they're like, you know, we're here to protect
industry and destroy lives. And that tarnished his reputation among
organized labor obviously, which again, you know, you look at
his origins, it's an about face.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So now this is what he's taking on.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Mother Jones, correct the muckraker.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Now, let's get to what I want to talk to
you about today, but not just Alan Pinkerton.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I'd love to hear what you'd love to talk about.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I want to talk to you about your poor performance
and our detective agency nose.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I thought if I dressed like the job that I wanted,
that's all I had to do.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Time out.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You're wearing an incredible yellow Hawaiian shirt today.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That kind of is very magnum.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
Pi, and I feel like you should be out, you know,
scoping something with some give.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Me some short shorts and I'm going to be there for.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And some binoculars and then you just go sit in.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
The car, keep binoculars in my car for bird watching.
You just did the air exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
All right, very magnum.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
This this all is going to start for us with
one of Alan Pinkton's books. Ooh, because he wrote he
wrote The Expressman and the Detective in eighteen seventy four,
the Molly Maguires and the Detectives in eighteen seventy seven,
and then Criminal Reminiscence and Detective Sketches in eighteen seven
or memoir. Yeah, so these books widely read, but also
(10:18):
they were like totally sensationalized. So there was you know,
a lot of fiction up in that fact and it
was mostly you know, just.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
To promote the Pinkerton Agency here totally.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean him and dashil Hammett basically do it.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
And so but it's that last tone that kicks it
off for us. In Criminal Reminiscences and Detective Sketches, Pinkerton wrote, quote,
there are some men who naturally choose, or through a
series of unfortunate blunders, drift into the life of social outlaws,
who possess so many remarkably original traits of character that
(10:52):
they become rather subjects for admiration than condemnation when we
review their life and character.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It's a lot of words say outlaw folk.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
We've talked about a good number of these dudes totally.
But who in particular was Alan Pankerton talking about Zaren Who?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Elizabeth? Because I do not have any guesses, No.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Neither do I. It's a guy, We'll put it that way.
He was. It's just established. It's a human being and a.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Man, not a dog, a wolverine or a child.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Who was a con artist at a riverboat gambler? He yes, hey,
and a card sharp about He's been described by many as,
quote the greatest of confidence men, and quote, without a doubt,
the greatest three card Monty Sharp ever to work the boats,
perhaps the greatest of them all.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh old fastthand Matthews.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I like being talked about working the boats. Work in
the boats.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
She's working the boats.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So was Sophie Smith.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
But he wasn't a three card money guy. But he
was not the fastest.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
He was like the best either way. I'm not talking
came out so okay, I love him. I just kind
of wanted to say his name, you invoke his name,
bring me there. This guy has a great name, though
it is not as good as Soapy, but it's pretty proper.
Alan Pinkerton and I are talking about Canada Bill Jones.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That sounds like I made it up.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It totally sounds like he would make up every Jones
over here.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Now and then I'm tempted to just completely make up
a criminal and a crime to tell you and just
never never revealed it.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I've just made it up.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That would be kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So Canada Bill Jones sounds like one that I would make.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
We'll find out. Canada Bill Jones is incredible.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We'll do a little fact checking when we're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So you got the name Bill Jones, are like, you
know what, you need a Canada in front of that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Canada Bill Jones. Well, it's not even cool. The Bill
Jones part, like, go further with Bill Jones.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
So it's it should be like Canada, Jack McGill cuddy exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Canada.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Bill Jones's false flat deflate so William Jones and also.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Implies that there's another Bill Jones in town that you
needed to.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Be differentiated from Mexico, La Colorado. Bill Jones. Which member
of NAFTA are you so, Canada? Bill Jones?
Speaker 5 (13:12):
William Jones born in a tent, of course, in Yorkshire,
England in eighteenth forty seven.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I was picturing in Canada. Born in his.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Family were Romanical. So the Romantical, often referred to as
the Romneys, are a subgroup of the Romany people. Yes,
aka what you know in the olden times they called gypsy.
With this long history, the Romantical have this long history
in the British Isles, especially England. So they trace their
ancestry to the Romany people of northern India who migrated
(13:43):
westward over one thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Years, with many deviations along the way.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Yeah, and the first recorded Romany groups arrived in England
around the early fifteen hundreds. Okay, so over the centuries
the community developed this really distinct identity within Britain, that's
what they. Yeah, Well, this is different. So that the
Romantical or the English branch of the Romany diaspora, and
they run parallel to other subgroups like the Welsh, Kale
(14:11):
and Wales, the Scottish Travelers, the Irish travelers, although Irish
Travelers are actually a separate ethno linguistic group, and they're
not truly romany way, don't you. I mean, I am
a font of knowledge, so speak. I'm just gonna hold on,
all right. It just all came out. Speaking of language,
(14:32):
the Romanical traditionally spoke Anglo Romany, which is this mixed language,
the core vocabulary from Romany and the grammar and syntax
from English and then Anglo Romany. That's spoken in a
lot of families today, but most of them now, most
of the Romanticals speak regional British English as.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Their main language.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
So like historically they're itinerant. They moved in caravans wagons
and they made their living through horse trading, tinkering or metalwork, yeah,
fortune telling, and then entertainment, music fairs, circuses.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You mentioned also horse breeding, Yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Horse trading and breeding.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
They did seasonal agriculture work so like fruit picking and
gathering hops.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And they you know, they would run run scams and come. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So from the sixteenth to the nineteenth century, Romanticals face
really heavy persecution in England. From fifteen thirties to seventeen eighties,
there were laws that made it a crime simply to
be a quote gypsy, you could get whipped, you could
get sent off to America or Australia.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You could be executed on site.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And a lot of them get deported to the American
colonies in the like seventeen eighteenth century.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
A lot of breaking up of families too, right, Like
kids go to the poorhouse, family gets seut Australia.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
But like in the US, that's why we have those
traveler communities in the South and Appalachia. Right, they're the
ones who were, you know, sent off to Georgia.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I remember growing up there always be outside of town
and they were known for the horse trade. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
So Canada, Bill Canada dry From a young age, he
learned handling and short games rigged card players, and so
in eighteen sixty he migrated to Canada. You can see why, like, you.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Know, I got a home not appreciated, and his options.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Are limited, and you know he's being like severely discriminated against.
So in Canada he partners up with this guy, Dick
Caty and it was there that he owned three card
Monty as a specialist quote thrower, and the thrower is
the con artist who performs the card manipulation has this
like sleight of hand, their toss techniques to trick spectators
(16:40):
into losing their money. And that's around the time that
he gets the nickname Canada Bill, and I suppose like
Yorkshire Bill before that, and then he became Canadbill. He
had this really interesting look. According to Alan Pinkerton quote,
his personal appearance, which was most ludicrous, undeniably had much
to do with his success. He was the veritable country gawky,
(17:02):
the ridiculous, ignorant, absurd creature that has been so imperfectly
imitated on and off the stage for years, and whose
true description can scarcely be written. He was fully six
feet high, with dark eyes and hair, and always had
a smooth shaven face full of seams and wrinkles that
were put to all manner of difficult expressions with marvelous
(17:24):
facility and ease. All this coupled with long, loose jointed arms,
long thin and apparently a trifle unsteady legs, a shambling,
shuffling awkward gait, and this remarkable face and head bent
forward and turned a little to one side like an
inquiring and wise old owl, and then an outfit of
granger clothing. The entire cost of which never exceeded fifteen dollars,
(17:48):
made a combination that never failed to call a smile
to a stranger's face or awaken a feeling of curiosity
and interest wherever he might be seen. He's describing Nick Checker.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I mean, like all also, I love how Alan Pickerton
never hesitates to judge like everything. He's like, god, man, he's.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like, oh, is there an opening for that.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Let's take a break and when we come back, we're
going to continue on following the life of Canada.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Bill nice.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Zaren Elizabeth welcome back. Yes, So all right, we're talking
about Canada.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
Bill.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
You can see that he's not too put together, like not,
but he's not really one way or another anything.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
He just seems really charismatic, especial when he's talking about
the creases in his face and how they dance.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
He's got this like charm that draws people in. That's
that's an important for So you got to be somewhat
memorable but not too much and like not too flashy,
relatable put people at these So he Bill, he worked
his card sharp skills, honed his talents, but he didn't
stick around Canada very long. Soon he moved south into
the US riverboat circuit on the Mississippi tributaries because that's
(19:20):
where the money was.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
Oh yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You were the action.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
And yeah, he worked with these teams of people and
one of them was George Devall.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
That name sounds familiar, George Hildreth Deval, Okay, less familiar.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
He was born.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
I'll just keep adding names to it until it's like unrecognizable.
Born in eighteen twenty nine in Ohio. He was a riverboat,
railroad professional gambler and a card sharp. He also he
wrote the best selling memoir Forty Years A Gambler on
the Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That's why, Yeah, I figured you probably read that.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
So the memoir is like this nineteenth century picuresque filled
with bravado and like these kind of stock characters. It's
more of this window onto the milieu and his self presentation.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's not a work of nonfiction really.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, no exactly. And also I mean this is where
we get like later on the character Maverick, who is
like a riverboat gambler. Yes, they're imitating the world he
described in.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Yeah, and he grew up in it right like so
he had he was early into steamboat life as a
cabin boy. And but then he really picked up all
of like the card you know, tricks and slights really
really easily in his.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Team and had to pick your marks too.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, and so he was able to be a really
good observer of people working on these boats, and so
like he's a big part of this Mississippi Valley gaming
culture in the eighteen thirties. And he positioned himself as
like this fighter as well as a gambler, so like
he would brag about getting into these tussles in order
to settle table outcomes or like protect his cash. So
(20:55):
here's this bruiser and he teams up with Canada Bill
and they did this thing old decking, which is like
introducing a pre arranged pack second dealing or palming. They
had marked cards and they ran just tons of card cons.
They exploited this like transit environment. So we have riverboats,
junction towns, and like later the rail corridors because like
(21:19):
jurisdictional enforcement was thin in these areas.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
A lot of times you're just down to us marshalls.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Right, And the techniques like that he used, he just
lays them out in the memoir. Canada Bill and Deval
had like a really intense partnership, and so they had
these like spectacular wins together. But then they had this
dramatic break after they accused each other of cheating.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Oh for real.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Yeah, and that was right around the time that the
Civil War broke out. So it's not entirely clear what
Bill did during the Civil War.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, because all the riverboat traffic stops basically, so these
guys all see it coming. And so that's why imagine
when they were doing the it's like one of those
I'm gonna get one last score before the war. I
bet that's why they that was.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
But then it's like, I don't know what he did,
laid low, whatever he.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Did, I'm probably stage coach.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, that would be a good guess. I'll give you
that mark that down, good guess.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
You got to keep it moving, he always do.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
So.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
After the war, though, he popped up in Kansas City
and he was hanging out with this guy, Dutch Charlie.
Canada Bill and Dutch Charlie. Now there are a few
bad dudes named Dutch Charlie floating around. Really, Yeah, there's
a but it was there was a prospector in the
Gold Country. There was like a terrible Desperado in the Northwest,
(22:34):
just terrorizing the Northwest. There was this murderous former fire
chief in San Francisco. Yeah, but Bill's Charlie was not
one of those guys. And from what I've read, this
actually was a very common nickname for German guys in
those days.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Dutch charged the Dutch, so they're actually not Dutch. They're
usually like the Pennsylvania Dutch exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
So Bill and Charlie they worked to trains together on
the Maha Kansas City Corridor. They ran mostly three card monty, Okay,
and it is impossible to beat the dealer in three
card manti. Just can't be done. People should know that
they still fell for it. So this shill would like
sidle up to a mark and pretend to conspire with him,
(23:18):
like let's go cheat the dealer, like I know how
to break this, and the Mark is like this is
my lucky day. I'm and this plot I can beat
the house at their own game. Shill obviously works for
the dealer, not the mark. The Kansas City Star newspaper
broke down the con in this nineteen seventeen article, quote,
three card Monty was played with three cards, not the
ordinary playing cards. They were cards made for the very purpose.
(23:41):
One of them had a picture of an elephant on it,
another the picture of a snake, and the third a star.
The operator holds the star card in one hand and
the other two between his thumb and forefinger in the
other hand, and throws them on the table or cloth.
He bets, you can't pick the star card, but here's
the Canada Bill worked it in the first place. Most
(24:02):
of his work was done on the railroad trains. You
know how lonesome you get riding along in a smoker car.
Canada Bill always had a capper who was a good
makeup man too. The capper singled out his victim and
took a seat alongside him and began to exchange confidences
long before Canada Bill appeared. When the capper and the
victim became good friends, Canada Bill would heave in sight.
(24:25):
Sometimes he would be a Montana sheep man, sometimes a
retired farmer, sometimes a country merchant. He would plant himself
in the seat opposite the capper and the mark and
pull out a roll of greenbacks and began to brag
about having the best of luck. Then he would tell
about going into Butte and playing three card monty, and
he would produce a set of cards which he said
(24:45):
he'd bought. The capper would ask him what kind of
game it was, and so Canada Bill would throw the
cards and the capper would try his luck at picking
out the Star card, and he'd win three out of
four bets. By this time, the sucker would be getting interested.
Seeing good pass Then Canada Bill's psychology mill would begin
to work. While the cards were laying on the cloth
(25:06):
or the car seat, he would turn his head and
hunt a spittoon, and quick as a flash, the copper
would turn the star cards so the sucker could see it.
And nine times out of ten, the sucker plays because
he thinks he's got a sure thing. When the cards
were switched, the copper would encourage the sucker to make
a huge bet. Whatever card the sucker picked would prove
to be an elephant or a snake, and he would
(25:27):
lose his money. That was because Canada Bill had definitely
replaced the star with superb sleight of hand. Moreover, when
the sucker lost, he was generally afraid to complain because
he'd have to fess up that he thought he had
a sure thing.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, he thinks he's cheating.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
It's so simple, like it plays on psychology, ego, hope,
it's genius.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's like an instantaneous con. You know, you do very
quickly conning and then they get them to think, oh,
I'm going to get over on you, right.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Right, you know you can be the con. So the
Union Pacific Railroad was not so happy to be this
rolling thing you for this con, so they cracked down
on Monty. Bill actually tried to buy an exclusive franchise
for the game from the railroad.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Really, he's let me have this one.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
He wrote to the head of the railroad and said
that he was going to offer them money, and then
some accounts it was ten thousand a year. Others say
it was one thousand a month. There's one that said
it was like thirty grand a year that I'll offer
you money if you let me run three.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Card MONTI.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yes what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No matter how much he.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Offered, the railroad passed on the opportunity, like they don't
want to give him a carve out on the ban
on three card Monty.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
For a reason, we're into this legitimate business because we're
like this, we're.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Like that, and people don't want to ride the rails
if they're going to get taken. So Canada Bill really
put his game on in Omaha, Nebraska. He got really
good at it there and so you know, he always
he played the he dressed the part, you know, going
to be a farmer.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
But like he didn't go overboard, right, So if he.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Said he was, that's right, and he didn't have it
like tuck behind his ear, straw behind his ear and
he would just look like, I'm a prosperous farmer, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
If he was like a merchant.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
He he never overdid what they called the makeup, the
costume of it, and people just would remember him. And
so he pulled these cons over and over and it
got him press as well as attention from the authority.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
That's not what you want.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
It didn't stop people from becoming victims of his scams.
But still so like in the April twenty third, eighteen
seventy three newspaper Omaha Evening Bee, Bill Is.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Reported read a minute the papers called the Omaha Evening b. Yes,
not a morning paper. Usually the B is the morning paper.
They're like the night paper might be to ad at night.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
It's the it's the B side to Gregory, Isaac's night
nurses might be the night be so Billy, they reported.
Bill that morning At appeared in court. He was charged
with conning a man and wife, last name of Jarvis,
at eight hundred dollars at three card Monty in a
saloon south of the Omaha Union Pacific Depot. It's like
(28:11):
the courtroom's packed. Everyone's loving this. They want to see it.
So the first up to testify is the wife of
the saloon owner, Missus Gosman. She tells the Omaha Evening Bee, right,
they noted in there in the paper that she's a
little deaf.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
It's like, okay, was she asked him? Repeat questions, Gosman.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Who's a little deaf?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
She testified, So she said, they're written in parentheses like
the whispering.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, I think this part is important, she said.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
She really wasn't sure what was going on out in
the bar room because she was at the stove in
the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
All right, so I did actually happen.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
What was she doing in there?
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
What was she doing there? Elizabeth?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Thank you zer, and I'm so glad you asked? She
was making a cup of coffee for Canada Bill to
study his nerves. Yeah, and then Henry the owner, he
said he saw Canada Bill like a bunch of times before,
and yeah, I saw him on that day, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Know what he was doing in there. I don't know
anything about gambling.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
And so the deputy City Marshall, Marshall Snowden, he found
Canada Bill later that day and Bill like straight up
told him, yeah, I beat a couple out of.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Some of the months of money.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And then he's like, but I gave it all back
except for like one hundred and fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I kept one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
I was going back and forth.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I have to take you.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
To jail, like you conned them. That was the extent
of the testimony. So Bill's lawyer makes this really good
case of like why he shouldn't get in trouble for it,
and then when he's rendering his judgment, the judge is like,
I am convinced that Bill is guilty of the charges
against him, and he said I was also sure quote
that three card Monty was a swindle and all who
(29:47):
played it were swindlers dealers as well as Kapper's being
equally guilty. And he was like, you know, if we
keep letting this go. It's a blight on our beautiful city.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
He wants the.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Authorities to crack down otherwise people aren't going to want
to come here anymore. But like, he also points out
that apparently there were other witnesses set to testify who
just didn't turn up, and so the testimony that they
had just wasn't enough to convict. So all he could
do was hand out like a severe reprimand, and so
he imposed a fine of fifty bucks bills on his way.
(30:18):
Legend intact. I've talked about Bunkomen before. Oh yeah, so
those and like the three card body guys, they befriended
unsuspecting visitors in town all across the US, and they'd
lure these roubes into card games, like you know Canada
Bill and his fellow card sharps, and they always had
like muscle in the wings waiting to put down an uprising,
(30:39):
and much to the chagrin of like the judges, the
Omaha police generally just left it alone.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
They left all this just.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
So it's kind of like, but see the real pressure
on Canada Bill and his compatriots were the railroad detectives.
So let's go back to Alan pinkertized, I.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Just about to say, I'm sensing some pankritis.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Here's another of his observations on Bill. Quote Canada Bill's
peculiar genius never failed to give him victory. And it
is said of him that he never made a mistake
and never failed to win money whenever he attempted it. Okay,
so he said that, oh yeah, he what set Canada Bill?
According to Pinkerton, set Canada Bill apart from all the
(31:22):
other card sharps was quote the fact that he was
the thing. He seemed to be.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Oh right, so he's not putting on some kind of airs,
and he goes.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
On quote Old gamblers and sporting men could never fathom him.
He was an enigma to his closest friends. A short
study of the awkward ambling fellow would give one the
impression that he was simply supremely clever in his manner,
and makeup that he was merely one of the most
accomplished actors in his profession ever known, and that he
(31:54):
only kept up this appearance of guilelessness for the purpose
of acquiring greater reputation among his fellows. But those who
knew him, as far as it was possible to know,
the wandering vagabond that he was, assert that he was
the most unaffected, innocent and really simple hearted of human
beings and never had been anything and never could have
(32:15):
been anything save just what he was.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So he's almost like a holy fool, but without so
much of the aspect that we would describe to being dumb. Yeah,
it's just an innocent lacking about And I.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Really think it's because of his upbringing, Like he learned
the cons as part of his culture.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, he's what he knows and part of survival.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
He didn't carry the shame others may have hangen around
those activities. So that's just who he is.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Church. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
Yeah, So there's this there's this great article in the
Beaver Crossing Times. You were just am I making him
up to say from eighteen ninety two that echoes much
of what others said. Quote he was large, formed man
with a cleanly shaven face, square jaw, deep set eyes,
(33:02):
the expression of a sphinx. His favorite disguise was the
makeup of a cattle drover, and as there were more
members of that class on the road Canada, Bill had
no difficulty in passing himself off as one of them.
He always carried two or three confederates or cappers with him,
and the money that he won with his three little
cards during half a dozen years would buy a bank
(33:24):
and pay officers' salaries for twenty years. Whenever arrested, Bill
would plead guilty, and no matter how large a fine
would be imposed, he would flash up a bundle of greenbacks,
thank the court for doing its duty, and bow himself
into the street.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
How much was the fine? I got to go?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
So again, he's you know, he's not remorseful.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
He's not he doesn't feel guilty because he doesn't think
that there's no shame in this.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
He think it's an operating cost.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, except cost of doing business.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Now, the Canada Bill Gang broke up in eighteen seventy candid, Yeah,
and most of the members they just went west and
hit up like the gold and silver fields of California
and Nevada.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
But they left this mark on Omaha and.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
The city had a reputation for illegal card rackets for
decades after because of them.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I was gonna say, my grandfather, who was the son
of farmers, and one of his his father's named James
Garfield after the President. All right. They he used to
always warned me when I would go to that, like
when I went to San Francisco and he would tell me, like,
you know, you got to make sure you don't get
involved in like three card MONI I'm like, yeah, people
don't really do that. And then they get to North
Beach and there was something throwing the car. I was like,
(34:33):
I'm putting down twenty on this. I gotta see it.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Well, that's what the omaha. They gave this reputation to him.
Let's let's stop here for a second and we'll get
more Canada Bill after the.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Break, please, Zaren Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Zaven So Canada Bill, can.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I tell you how much I'm digging this?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You know, is any great?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I love nineteenth century crime?
Speaker 5 (35:13):
But this guy, I mean, if he existed, Canada Bill,
now he's real.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
He cheated a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
It sounds like that's he wasn't a bad dude. No,
he gave them entertainment and they don't feel like such
suckers that they're like losing their.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
Homes or like and and there were parts when he
really was not a bad dude at all.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Because Zaren, close your eyes.
Speaker 8 (35:33):
Yeah, as it closed, I want you to picture it.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
It's the spring of eighteen seventy four. You are a
newspaper reporter based out of Chicago. You're on the Lake
Shore Train headed out to Toledo.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Going to visit some family.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
You sit in the smoking car, puffing on a pipe
with your notepad in your lap app thinking about a
collection of short stories you're working on. The train chugs
along in a mesmerizing rhythm. The door to the carriage
slides open and a man enters. You'd know him anywhere.
That's Canada, Bill Jones. Everyone at the paper is fascinated
by him. There's a twinkle in his eye. He nods
(36:19):
at you and takes a seat across the aisle.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
He starts sort.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Of carelessly tossing cards around on the chair opposite him,
laying cards on the seat, flipping him, sorting, shuffling. A
man approaches and watches Bill. Bill offers a game of
three card Monti. This is gonna be good. You think
the guy wins a hand. You know he must be
a capper.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He's in on it. There's just no way.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
This is cemented in your mind when he wins a
second round. Soon, two more gentlemen approach and watch. One
of them takes the bait, and you wait for him
to lose his bet. He does, and he wins. More
men gather and watch. The second fellow tries again and loses,
but he doubles down on a third try and wins.
The gathered group lets out hollers and whoops it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
They can't believe their eyes. Bill shakes his head and
hands over twenty dollars.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Why that very well may be worth five hundred and
fifty dollars one hundred and fifty years time or so.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's some cash.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Just then, a country boy with a pipe in his
mouth approaches, bow legged and obviously out of his element.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
He stares at Bill.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
You'd clocked him watching all of this from the end
of the car, and now he's standing right here next
to you, assessing the game for himself. He reaches into
his pocket and pulls out a stuffed billfold, producing ten bucks.
He bets Bill he can pick the right card.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Bill tells me he's on.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
In quick successive hands, he manages to double his money.
The gathered men chuckle and cheer. He racks up more wins,
three than four, then five hands, then six. You don't
take this guy for a capper based on what you
know of this con Bill has been luring this guy
into a false sense of confidence in his skills at
(38:02):
an unwinnable game. With each win, the guy increases his bets,
ballooning the amount of money at stake. But then his
luck changes. He loses and loses again and again, and
he gets desperate. He tries to increase the bets in
order to make his money back. The smoking car is
now silent, just the sound of the train rolling down
(38:25):
the tracks and the occasional clearing of a throat. To
accompany a massive loss, the man runs out of money.
Two men stand behind you watching the scene. One turns
to the other and asks how much the guy lost
because he wasn't keeping track. Six hundred dollars, the other
man says, man whistles. In one hundred and fifty one
(38:45):
years time, in twenty twenty five, that would be seventeen
thousand dollars lost in a card game.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
In the smoking car of a train on a.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Regional railroad, the country boy stands and straightens himself. Out
car remains quiet. He looks dazed. Excusing himself, he shuffles
past the gathered group and out into the next car.
The men all disperse, some to other ends of the car,
some to other carriages. Canada Bill Jones gathers his cards
and tucks him in the front pocket of his jacket.
(39:15):
He pulls his soft leather cash bag from the interior
pocket of his jacket and places his winnings in there,
a bundle of cash, Joining a crowd of other ill
gotten bills. He takes a newspaper from the seat beside
him and begins to scan the articles. You all ride
along in silence. You think about what you've just witnessed,
think about how to incorporate it into a short story.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Then there's a commotion.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
The door to the smoking car flies open, and a
woman enters, dragging two small children with her.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
She's crying.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
She scans the faces of the men in the car,
most of her their eyes not Canada Bill.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
He looks straight at her.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
She approaches Canada Bill, she asks, yes, ma'am. He answers bawling.
She tells him that she her husband, and their two
small children and had sold out everything they'd owned in
Mercer County, Pennsylvania, and were on their way to Kansas
to start a new life. All the money they had
was the six hundred and some odd dollars that her
(40:11):
husband had just lost in three card money. She then
collapses to her knees, holding onto the seat across from Bill.
Her kids stare wide eyed at the scene. She exclaims
that children and I must starve mister, just because my
man was a fool.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Canada Bill shows no expression.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
He stares at the woman and every soul in the
smoking car seems to simultaneously hold his breath. Slowly, Bill
reaches into his pants pocket. He pulls out an enormous
wad of money. Slowly, he counts off six hundred dollars
and hands it to the woman. Here's your money, madam.
I never rob women and children, but I want you
(40:50):
to keep it to yourself in the future, as that
husband of yours doesn't know enough to go without a guardian.
She is about to say something, but he raises his
hand to stop. He then continues to peel Bills off
the stack twenty after twenty. Then he speaks, here's a
present for the babies, Now run back to them and
stop your crying.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
So Canada Bill.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I love him. Wasn't all bad, dude, I mean, like,
okay one that was fantastic scene like, you know, I
listened to, as I say, often a lot of old
radio shows that felt like something from like Frontier Gentleman
or from like Have Gunwheel Travel totally, I mean even
gun Smoke. I was like, oh, that was an amazing scene.
And then I love that he like wants to protect
the women and the women and the children from the
(41:35):
idiocy of the husband, like I know.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You shouldn't be traveling hat a guardian.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
What a great line, babe. And also how amazing is
it what people used to do before we had cell phones,
iPhones and whatnot. But there's whole industries like that made
for boredom. You're just sitting on a trail and all
the sudden you got gambling. Everyone gets all excited. Yeah
we get none of that now.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, no exactly. And so and he's he refuses to
rob women and show.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yes, love this outlawful caro.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But you know, here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
So not even his former partner in crime with whom
he'd had a falling out, would bad mouth him. Here's
what Devaal said quote there never lived a better hearted
man than Canada Bill. Many a time I've seen him
walk up to a sister of charity and present her
with as much as fifty dollars. Once I saw him
win two hundred dollars from a man on a boat,
(42:20):
and shortly after the little boy came running through the
cabin and Bill gave the boy two hundred dollars, telling
him to take it to his mother. He had no
heart for suckers, however, and he often said gullible people
had no business with money.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yes, I'm with him on that.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
So by eighteen seventy four he was in Chicago. As
we saw on the train, he teamed up with Jimmy
Porter and Colonel Charlie Starr.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Colonel Charlie Star and.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Who those guys were is lost to history, but their
names pop up with Bill and news reports. But I
guess they didn't build the reputation and legacy that build it.
So the guys they ran their train and boat cons
but they were also opening gambling houses in Chicago. What
a time in that city right now. So okay, So
(43:06):
here's a good final anecdote about him. One day Bill
was operating on the train. He's waiting for a mark
and he's strolling down the aisle when he happens upon
this young man sitting alone, and Bill could tell he's green.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
He's a greenhorn.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
So he slaps the kid on his shoulder, asks his name,
how you doing, son, what's your name? And the young
guy he's just like stoked to have someone talk to him,
and so he invites Bill to sit down, tells him
his name and he's you know, says I'm I'm the
nephew of Alexander Ramsey, Sheriff of Ellis County and now sheriff.
Ramsey was one of Bill's nemeses. Yeah, it was very
(43:44):
cat and mouse with those and so Bill he saw like,
this is my chance to get even with Ramsey. So
he sits down and like in a few minutes, he's
got all the young guys money, like and his watch
like every bill on him and the jewel. Oh yes,
after he had fleeced him. Bill turns to the boy
(44:06):
and he says, quote, you go home now and tell
Ramsey that Canada Bill got all your money. Don't forget now,
tell him that Canada Bill got your money for old
acquaintance sake.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Tell him you.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Had to go without your supper because I had your money.
And then I haven't forgotten the time he put me
off that Union Pacific train and made me walk.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
It was like a crentin Tarantino. See can't tell him
Canada Bill was the one.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
You said to go without dinner.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Take this car and I'm gonna ride on a Canada
Bill hand this to Ramsey.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
The boy gets to his destination, his uncle's like picking
him up at the depot.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tells his uncle what happened. The sheriff uncle like he Ramsey.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Order, yeah, So he and his buddy like top on
horses and they chase the train to the next station
and there they boord the train. They find Canada Bill
and Bill he's like in the smoking ca again. He's
like just you know, flouncing around. Ramsey comes in. Ramsey
he like pulled his hat over his eyes and he
went to the seat where Canada Bill had been playing,
and like started he bet on the game that had
(45:11):
just started, so like of course he lost, but he
didn't say anything until about one thousand dollars was put up.
And that's when Sheriff Ramsey pulls out two six shooters,
pulls him on Bill and said, quote, turn down that card,
you know me hand that money over damn quick and Bill.
Bill's not scared Bill is just like so cool, and
(45:34):
Conice hands over the cash and says, quote, of course
the money's yours. You want it, you hold the winning
cards in your hand, Fine take it.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
I like that. The man of law and order now
is the criminal in the start. He's the one robbing Bill.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
So the law man who'd heard about it later told
a reporter that the sheriff's play just like broke Bill,
but quote, he knew it wasn't worth fooling with Ramsey.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Bill was good.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Hearted, but he liked to snake in the Greenies. And
I'm not exactly sure what he means, like I like
to snake in the Greenies, like snake in the grass, right.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
That's what I'm assuming. Yeah, and they getting by.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
You don't want to all someone a snake in the grass.
Now I'm going to go snake in the greenies.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
But I love it.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You want to like slide by. You don't want to
get good? Yeah, you don't want to get the hollies.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Take your head off doing it for me. So in
eighteen seventy seven, Bill fell ill with consumption, totally broke.
He was absolutely destitute.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Well once he can't operate, well, you know, because it
turns out not banking. You know, he's not a guy
that's saving for his retirement.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
But even more so, he was a card sharp, but
he was a rube when it came to farrow.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
He Oh my god, I really love.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
To play farrow. He could not stop.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That game really fell off. I still have poker, we
can still find money. But Pharaoh, it just fell off.
Speaker 5 (46:50):
Everything he made with the cards he turned around and lost.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 5 (46:55):
So? On October twenty second, eighteen seventy seven, he.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Died at the age of around forty Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Who is thought early sixties?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
No?
Speaker 5 (47:04):
So in his funeral was something so the Chicago Inter
Ocean newspaper, they said of the event, quote, his funeral
was probably the strangest ever seen in the Charles Evans Cemetery,
for there were neither tears, nor women nor minister about
the grave that now holds the remains of a man
who died penniless in a strange land, but had the
(47:27):
name one time of having won nearly half a million
dollars at three card montellion dollars and then turn around
and blew it all.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
But you know he also he spread the money around.
He took care of people really paid.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yet he's got payroll for people.
Speaker 5 (47:41):
Right, So a bunch of fellow crooked gamblers paid for
his funeral, yes, And they gathered at the cemetery to quote,
do the last honors for the old sport who'd won
money on nearly every railroad in the United States east
of the Rocky Mountains. So the hearse rolls up the
carriage and the undertaker and his staff go to like
(48:01):
pull the walnut coffin from the carriage, and then one
of the con men asks if Bill's remains are actually
in there, and the Undertaker's like, yeah, they are, but
like the group's not happy with that, and they're like,
unscrew that lid right now. We want to make sure.
And the main guy, who was like kind of the
ringleader of all these cons said, quote Bill was in
(48:23):
many a tight box and worked himself out somehow or another,
and it's no dead sure thing that he ain't got
out of the trip to the cemetery.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yes, so there's just like and this.
Speaker 5 (48:34):
So like the undertaker he starts unscrewing the lid, and
one of the mourners pointed out that the screws weren't
solid silver like they'd paid for. Oh and then another
said quote, Well, Bill's game wasn't one of the squarest,
but I guess there are tricks in all trades, as
well as the Monty players.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
So they're just like respect, fair play.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Everyone cracks up, like they all thought that was hilarious.
Speaker 5 (48:58):
So Bill's body was in fact in the coffin and
they're like, okay, wow, he's dead. And the guy who
was supposed to read like a short prayer never showed up,
so they screwed the lid back on the coffin, lowered
him into the ground, and there was That's the end
of Canada.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Bill.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
There was no one to say words over him, No.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Because the guy who's going to read a prayer and
say something didn't show up, So no one.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Else that was not their jobs, Darin, I get it.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
So Bill, he was known for two famous quotes. They
may or may not have been things that he actually said,
but they're attributed to him in films like Rounders or Yeah,
or in American Gods by that super creep Neil Gamon. Okay,
so the first is quote, it's immoral to let us
sucker keep his money.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I'm telling you it is kind of like the street wisdom.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
Yes exactly, We've heard similar sentiment from other con artists.
And then there's quote, I know it's crooked, but it's
the only game in town, which is so often this story,
so often the story. So, Saren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Oh my god, I just loved this ride. And I'd
like that his earnestness ironically allowed him to do crime
without having like you didn't mention him getting beaten really badly,
nobody like taking potshots at him, no angry people. Also,
he was just a great guy in terms of like
how he separated a wife and the children from like
the sucker husband and realized that, you know, suckers are
(50:20):
one thing, families or another thing. So he has a
very simple view of the world. And I think it's
a little bit ridiculous that he's out of all the
people you're mentioning, you know, Allan Pinkerton, the Ramsey, the sheriff,
he's the most moral person that you mentioned. Yeah, yeah's
you're a ridiculous takeaway, Elizabeth.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
I was really struck by him not having the built
in shame, yes, and that it actually allowed him to.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Be more moral.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
I think because he wasn't trying to cover up any
of his behaviors, and he just was exactly what he
was and unapologetic in it.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
But that allowed him to kind of let things come
and go.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
I found have you found that have you've known Rama?
I found that often to be the case with the
roma I've known, is that because there's like not those pretensions,
they're allowed to just be a person. You know, they
don't have all these well I gotta shave face and
act like I'm this and I go to church on
Sunday to forget what I did on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
They just are understanding that things come and go.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
Yeah, exactly, That's what I mean. It's just part that's
like how nature is. So you're much more in tune
with the rhythms of nature than the pretensions of man.
Speaker 5 (51:26):
Yeah, and so I just that's one of the fascinating
things about him was that that element of it.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
What I would love to cap this all off with
is a talk back.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I can't help you, producer, d can you? I got you?
Oh my god, I like.
Speaker 6 (51:50):
His eyes. My name is Morgan. I'm a new listener
to the podcast and I love it. It's so funny,
but the other day, I was listening and Zara said
he had a cuddle site with the interns, and I
had no idea who the interns were, so I seemed
a little inappropriate, but Elizabeth them clarified that they are
four legged interns, not too so thank you for clarifying
(52:11):
that you have mutant four legged human interns. Thanks guys,
sorry for that.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Workplace.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, no, it's not that kind.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
And they're also they're not mutants.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
And they started the cuddle fight. I just responded, and
they are dogs. They are.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
That's the funniest thing ever. I love Thank you for that.
That's it for today. With the notion of you just
like aggressively cuddling like college students.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
You take this pillow, hit me with it, I'll hit
you back, don't give me a hug.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
All the iHeart lawyers line. That's it for today. You
can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com.
Speaker 5 (53:01):
Did you know the website got a speeding ticket over
the weekend.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
I'm sorry about the house. I should have told you.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
The website lost its license and now it rides a
bike everywhere.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
That explains why it was locked up next to mine.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
We're also Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and Instagram. We're
on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can email us
at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Most importantly, leave a talkback on the iHeart app reach out.
Speaker 5 (53:37):
Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,
produced and edited by inventor of twelve Card Monty Dave Cousten,
starring Analys Rutger as Judith. Research is by Riverboat Detective
Marissa Brown. The theme song is by Card Sharp Cappers
with Hearts of Gold Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Post
wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and
(53:59):
makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are Pinkerton
HR representatives Ben Bollen and Noel Brown. Gridicous Crime, Say
It One More Times Crime.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
from my Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Zaren Elizabeth Zaron, Get over here, I'm here, I'm here questions.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Should I sit down?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
No?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stay stay standing? Okay, you know it's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
I do.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So. You know I've told you recently that that story
about uh Keith Richards and John Lennon, right, Well, I
did some research and I was bumping around in the
Rolling Stones. I found something interesting about Mick Jagger and uh,
you know he was married to Jerry Hall, the model
for like a long time. Yes, well they were made
for about twenty three years, and apparently she got really
tired of all the like infidelities on his part. Yeah,
(00:35):
and she's like, look, you're a sex addict. Oh and
he's like yeah, probably right. And so he's like, you
need to go to therapy and deal with this if
we're going to stay together. So Mick agreed. He's like, yeah,
I'll do that, you know whatever. So he goes and
h turns out he seduced his sex therapist. Stop it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So he just like did the chicken walk?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Can strutten over? She's like, I gotta have some of that.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
All I think about with Mick Jagger is that John
mullaney bit about how when he was hosting Saturday Night Live,
how he was deciding what, you know, skits they should do,
and John Mulaney would pitch one and Mick Jagger would say,
not funny.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I thought that for.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You, not funny. That's ridiculous, right, seducing.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Going to for help? Who is a sex therapist? Like
she knows this is the one thing I cannot do well.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But you know, I guess she's got she's got weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, let me see what made those lips smile.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
For some reason? These the ladies, they can't resist them.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, he got the leading man itis.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I guess he's so like that doesn't matter. It's like
a dancing skeleton totally, that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's you're not really drawn to like the physical forms charm,
it's the attitude.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hands on the hips, yeah, the est pout, Yeah, not funny.
Do you know what else is ridiculous?
Speaker 6 (02:04):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I do not making people.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Believe they can win an unwinnable game, over and over
and over. This is ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd
(02:37):
and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety nine
percent murder free. And one hundred percent ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Oh you damn right, I know I am. Are you
familiar with Alan Pinkerton?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Do you want me to not cuss and go off
on a rant and tirage pretend I'm familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I was just born. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I think he was in maybe the last century or two, saren.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
He was one of the most significant figures in American
law enforcement and private security.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Why is that, Elizabeth? Whatever did he do?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Let me tell you? You know? Oddly enough?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Yes, he was a product of the Deer Green Place,
my home away from home, Glasgow, Scotland.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh really, he was a Glaswegian.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'd explain some of his tenacity.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
He was born there in eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Okay, why did they get rid of him? They do?
What he was like?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think you're going to be interested. So his dad
was a police search I guessed that.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
And he died when Alan was young, and he left
the family struggling. I mean, not on purpose, but you
know who knows. Maybe so Alan he trained as a cooper,
not a copper, oh, to make barrel cooper exactly, a
barrel maker, and he became active in the Chartist movement.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
What is that I thought maybe you'd know it's working
class agitation for political reform.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, I'm trying to play a long.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
So okay, so all these workers right, they want workers right,
they want you know, it's not just labor issues, but
for those like just the working yes, and just you know,
votes and all sorts of other stuff. So he gets
really into the chartists, and his political activism brought him
into conflict.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
With the authorities, you know, as it does.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
He went up against the Glasgow cops and maybe didn't
always go so great for him.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, I imagine they used the billy clubs too. Oh.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Probably.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
In eighteen forty two he'd had enough. He immigrated to
the US with his wife. You got run out of town.
They settled in Chicago after spending a little bit of
time in Canada.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So they jumped over the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Common understand the Scots to go to Canada America.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yes, yes, And he at first he worked as a
cooper again in Dundee township near Chicago, so he had
to stick with the Scottish connection Dundee.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So he's orbiting Chicago and one time, just by chance,
he's out in the woods looking for wood because that's
where they keep woods.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That is true in the best place.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
That's the name he wants to He's like, I got
to build a barrel, dude, and held raw material. It
goes out there and he finds a counterfeitters camp. I
don't know why I enunciated that so hard.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I maybe really wonder what was.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Very formal counterfeit A gang counterfeitters camp. You know, I'm
trying not to allide over everything all the time and
slur my speed because remember when we first started doing this,
and that guy said that if you play the show
on like seven point seventy five or halftime, I sound
completely drunk and you sound normal.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Because I talk so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, anyway, I don't remember what.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
People said like that about that. You do. I don't
you can remind me of what people say about It.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Lives in my head, but I make it pay rent.
He finds his counterfeitters camp eighteen forty seven.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We're talking money counterfeiting, right, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
He he channeled his dad and he helped the authorities
arrest the counter and he gained this reputation for vigilance.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And also, I'm going to guess as.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
A narc exactly like Yan.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
So he gets appointed as a result of this, like
a couple of years later, he's appointed the first police
detective in Chicago in eighteen forty nine detection. They had
just lance committee. Yes, and now they're like, how about.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You, you nark, Yeah, we're gonna be you can't.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Mind your own business, you go detect. So eighteenth Chicago
the first.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's crazy. Wow.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And so eighteen fifty the next year, he founded the
Northwestern Police Agency, later renamed the Pinkerton National Detective Agents. Yes,
now my question what happened at the Chicago PD that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
After a year they're like, a year, you should do
this privately.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, maybe like settle down there, but.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
We don't want to pay you for this.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
No. So the agency's logo was this wide open eye
with the motto we never sleep. Yes, ominous, but that's
where we get the phrase private eye.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah. So the firm they specialized.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
In railroad security, and then they added in like pursuit
of fugitives and then later little dash of strike breaking,
little which is rich considering what got him in trouble
as a lad.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Thank you. I didn't want to get into all that, but.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean like that. Yeah, so come on, now.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
He's like you know what, I know what pays. Well,
it's like you know.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You change as you get older.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
So the Pinkerton Agency became the most prominent private detective
service in nineteenth century America. Yes, and the name became
synonymous with like brutal private detectives and strongmens and strike breaking, oh,
strike breaking and operating outside of the law and yet
be thinking they are the law exactly. So eighteen sixty one,
(07:48):
Pinkerton he uncovered a plan.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
They're like goons and suits.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Total goons, total goons. He found out that someone who's
going to try and assassinate President elect Abraham Lincoln, Yes,
in Baltimore, a Balmore during his you know trip to Washington,
d C. So Lincoln Chicago, right, so that like he
then Pinkerton organizes it. So Lincoln arrives in secret, and
(08:12):
he referred to it as the Baltimore Plot, and he
was able to foil it. During the Civil War, he
served as head of the Union Intelligence Service, so that's
like the pre secret service. He organized espionage networks behind
Confederate lines, although a lot of times his reports like
overestimated the.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Confederate troop strength. Course, but like after the war.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
The agency became famous for pursuing criminals like the Reno Gang,
the James Younger Game, and then Butch Cassidy's Wild Bunch.
Of course, so by the eighteen seventies, oh, he is,
he is, he's got star power. Eighteen seventies, eighteen eighties,
they're like, really.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
That's when they get into the strike breaking.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yes, and they're like, you know, we're here to protect
industry and destroy lives. And that tarnished his reputation among
organized labor obviously, which again, you know, you look at
his origins, it's an about face.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So now this is what he's taking on.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Mother Jones, correct the muckraker.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Now, let's get to what I want to talk to
you about today, but not just Alan Pinkerton.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I'd love to hear what you'd love to talk about.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I want to talk to you about your poor performance
and our detective agency nose.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I thought if I dressed like the job that I wanted,
that's all I had to do.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Time out.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You're wearing an incredible yellow Hawaiian shirt today.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That kind of is very magnum.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
Pi, and I feel like you should be out, you know,
scoping something with some give.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Me some short shorts and I'm going to be there for.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And some binoculars and then you just go sit in.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
The car, keep binoculars in my car for bird watching.
You just did the air exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
All right, very magnum.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
This this all is going to start for us with
one of Alan Pinkton's books. Ooh, because he wrote he
wrote The Expressman and the Detective in eighteen seventy four,
the Molly Maguires and the Detectives in eighteen seventy seven,
and then Criminal Reminiscence and Detective Sketches in eighteen seven
or memoir. Yeah, so these books widely read, but also
(10:18):
they were like totally sensationalized. So there was you know,
a lot of fiction up in that fact and it
was mostly you know, just.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
To promote the Pinkerton Agency here totally.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean him and dashil Hammett basically do it.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
And so but it's that last tone that kicks it
off for us. In Criminal Reminiscences and Detective Sketches, Pinkerton wrote, quote,
there are some men who naturally choose, or through a
series of unfortunate blunders, drift into the life of social outlaws,
who possess so many remarkably original traits of character that
(10:52):
they become rather subjects for admiration than condemnation when we
review their life and character.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It's a lot of words say outlaw folk.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
We've talked about a good number of these dudes totally.
But who in particular was Alan Pankerton talking about Zaren Who?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Elizabeth? Because I do not have any guesses, No.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Neither do I. It's a guy, We'll put it that way.
He was. It's just established. It's a human being and a.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Man, not a dog, a wolverine or a child.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Who was a con artist at a riverboat gambler? He yes, hey,
and a card sharp about He's been described by many as,
quote the greatest of confidence men, and quote, without a doubt,
the greatest three card Monty Sharp ever to work the boats,
perhaps the greatest of them all.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh old fastthand Matthews.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I like being talked about working the boats. Work in
the boats.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
She's working the boats.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So was Sophie Smith.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
But he wasn't a three card money guy. But he
was not the fastest.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
He was like the best either way. I'm not talking
came out so okay, I love him. I just kind
of wanted to say his name, you invoke his name,
bring me there. This guy has a great name, though
it is not as good as Soapy, but it's pretty proper.
Alan Pinkerton and I are talking about Canada Bill Jones.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That sounds like I made it up.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It totally sounds like he would make up every Jones
over here.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Now and then I'm tempted to just completely make up
a criminal and a crime to tell you and just
never never revealed it.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I've just made it up.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That would be kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So Canada Bill Jones sounds like one that I would make.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
We'll find out. Canada Bill Jones is incredible.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We'll do a little fact checking when we're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So you got the name Bill Jones, are like, you
know what, you need a Canada in front of that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Canada Bill Jones. Well, it's not even cool. The Bill
Jones part, like, go further with Bill Jones.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
So it's it should be like Canada, Jack McGill cuddy exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Canada.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Bill Jones's false flat deflate so William Jones and also.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Implies that there's another Bill Jones in town that you
needed to.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Be differentiated from Mexico, La Colorado. Bill Jones. Which member
of NAFTA are you so, Canada? Bill Jones?
Speaker 5 (13:12):
William Jones born in a tent, of course, in Yorkshire,
England in eighteenth forty seven.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I was picturing in Canada. Born in his.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Family were Romanical. So the Romantical, often referred to as
the Romneys, are a subgroup of the Romany people. Yes,
aka what you know in the olden times they called gypsy.
With this long history, the Romantical have this long history
in the British Isles, especially England. So they trace their
ancestry to the Romany people of northern India who migrated
(13:43):
westward over one thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Years, with many deviations along the way.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Yeah, and the first recorded Romany groups arrived in England
around the early fifteen hundreds. Okay, so over the centuries
the community developed this really distinct identity within Britain, that's
what they. Yeah, Well, this is different. So that the
Romantical or the English branch of the Romany diaspora, and
they run parallel to other subgroups like the Welsh, Kale
(14:11):
and Wales, the Scottish Travelers, the Irish travelers, although Irish
Travelers are actually a separate ethno linguistic group, and they're
not truly romany way, don't you. I mean, I am
a font of knowledge, so speak. I'm just gonna hold on,
all right. It just all came out. Speaking of language,
(14:32):
the Romanical traditionally spoke Anglo Romany, which is this mixed language,
the core vocabulary from Romany and the grammar and syntax
from English and then Anglo Romany. That's spoken in a
lot of families today, but most of them now, most
of the Romanticals speak regional British English as.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Their main language.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
So like historically they're itinerant. They moved in caravans wagons
and they made their living through horse trading, tinkering or metalwork, yeah,
fortune telling, and then entertainment, music fairs, circuses.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You mentioned also horse breeding, Yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Horse trading and breeding.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
They did seasonal agriculture work so like fruit picking and
gathering hops.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And they you know, they would run run scams and come. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So from the sixteenth to the nineteenth century, Romanticals face
really heavy persecution in England. From fifteen thirties to seventeen eighties,
there were laws that made it a crime simply to
be a quote gypsy, you could get whipped, you could
get sent off to America or Australia.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You could be executed on site.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And a lot of them get deported to the American
colonies in the like seventeen eighteenth century.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
A lot of breaking up of families too, right, Like
kids go to the poorhouse, family gets seut Australia.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
But like in the US, that's why we have those
traveler communities in the South and Appalachia. Right, they're the
ones who were, you know, sent off to Georgia.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I remember growing up there always be outside of town
and they were known for the horse trade. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
So Canada, Bill Canada dry From a young age, he
learned handling and short games rigged card players, and so
in eighteen sixty he migrated to Canada. You can see why, like, you.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Know, I got a home not appreciated, and his options.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Are limited, and you know he's being like severely discriminated against.
So in Canada he partners up with this guy, Dick
Caty and it was there that he owned three card
Monty as a specialist quote thrower, and the thrower is
the con artist who performs the card manipulation has this
like sleight of hand, their toss techniques to trick spectators
(16:40):
into losing their money. And that's around the time that
he gets the nickname Canada Bill, and I suppose like
Yorkshire Bill before that, and then he became Canadbill. He
had this really interesting look. According to Alan Pinkerton quote,
his personal appearance, which was most ludicrous, undeniably had much
to do with his success. He was the veritable country gawky,
(17:02):
the ridiculous, ignorant, absurd creature that has been so imperfectly
imitated on and off the stage for years, and whose
true description can scarcely be written. He was fully six
feet high, with dark eyes and hair, and always had
a smooth shaven face full of seams and wrinkles that
were put to all manner of difficult expressions with marvelous
(17:24):
facility and ease. All this coupled with long, loose jointed arms,
long thin and apparently a trifle unsteady legs, a shambling,
shuffling awkward gait, and this remarkable face and head bent
forward and turned a little to one side like an
inquiring and wise old owl, and then an outfit of
granger clothing. The entire cost of which never exceeded fifteen dollars,
(17:48):
made a combination that never failed to call a smile
to a stranger's face or awaken a feeling of curiosity
and interest wherever he might be seen. He's describing Nick Checker.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I mean, like all also, I love how Alan Pickerton
never hesitates to judge like everything. He's like, god, man, he's.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like, oh, is there an opening for that.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Let's take a break and when we come back, we're
going to continue on following the life of Canada.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Bill nice.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Zaren Elizabeth welcome back. Yes, So all right, we're talking
about Canada.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
Bill.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
You can see that he's not too put together, like not,
but he's not really one way or another anything.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
He just seems really charismatic, especial when he's talking about
the creases in his face and how they dance.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
He's got this like charm that draws people in. That's
that's an important for So you got to be somewhat
memorable but not too much and like not too flashy,
relatable put people at these So he Bill, he worked
his card sharp skills, honed his talents, but he didn't
stick around Canada very long. Soon he moved south into
the US riverboat circuit on the Mississippi tributaries because that's
(19:20):
where the money was.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
Oh yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You were the action.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
And yeah, he worked with these teams of people and
one of them was George Devall.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
That name sounds familiar, George Hildreth Deval, Okay, less familiar.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
He was born.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
I'll just keep adding names to it until it's like unrecognizable.
Born in eighteen twenty nine in Ohio. He was a riverboat,
railroad professional gambler and a card sharp. He also he
wrote the best selling memoir Forty Years A Gambler on
the Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That's why, Yeah, I figured you probably read that.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
So the memoir is like this nineteenth century picuresque filled
with bravado and like these kind of stock characters. It's
more of this window onto the milieu and his self presentation.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's not a work of nonfiction really.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, no exactly. And also I mean this is where
we get like later on the character Maverick, who is
like a riverboat gambler. Yes, they're imitating the world he
described in.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Yeah, and he grew up in it right like so
he had he was early into steamboat life as a
cabin boy. And but then he really picked up all
of like the card you know, tricks and slights really
really easily in his.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Team and had to pick your marks too.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, and so he was able to be a really
good observer of people working on these boats, and so
like he's a big part of this Mississippi Valley gaming
culture in the eighteen thirties. And he positioned himself as
like this fighter as well as a gambler, so like
he would brag about getting into these tussles in order
to settle table outcomes or like protect his cash. So
(20:55):
here's this bruiser and he teams up with Canada Bill
and they did this thing old decking, which is like
introducing a pre arranged pack second dealing or palming. They
had marked cards and they ran just tons of card cons.
They exploited this like transit environment. So we have riverboats,
junction towns, and like later the rail corridors because like
(21:19):
jurisdictional enforcement was thin in these areas.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
A lot of times you're just down to us marshalls.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Right, And the techniques like that he used, he just
lays them out in the memoir. Canada Bill and Deval
had like a really intense partnership, and so they had
these like spectacular wins together. But then they had this
dramatic break after they accused each other of cheating.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Oh for real.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Yeah, and that was right around the time that the
Civil War broke out. So it's not entirely clear what
Bill did during the Civil War.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, because all the riverboat traffic stops basically, so these
guys all see it coming. And so that's why imagine
when they were doing the it's like one of those
I'm gonna get one last score before the war. I
bet that's why they that was.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
But then it's like, I don't know what he did,
laid low, whatever he.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Did, I'm probably stage coach.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, that would be a good guess. I'll give you
that mark that down, good guess.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
You got to keep it moving, he always do.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
So.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
After the war, though, he popped up in Kansas City
and he was hanging out with this guy, Dutch Charlie.
Canada Bill and Dutch Charlie. Now there are a few
bad dudes named Dutch Charlie floating around. Really, Yeah, there's
a but it was there was a prospector in the
Gold Country. There was like a terrible Desperado in the Northwest,
(22:34):
just terrorizing the Northwest. There was this murderous former fire
chief in San Francisco. Yeah, but Bill's Charlie was not
one of those guys. And from what I've read, this
actually was a very common nickname for German guys in
those days.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Dutch charged the Dutch, so they're actually not Dutch. They're
usually like the Pennsylvania Dutch exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
So Bill and Charlie they worked to trains together on
the Maha Kansas City Corridor. They ran mostly three card monty, Okay,
and it is impossible to beat the dealer in three
card manti. Just can't be done. People should know that
they still fell for it. So this shill would like
sidle up to a mark and pretend to conspire with him,
(23:18):
like let's go cheat the dealer, like I know how
to break this, and the Mark is like this is
my lucky day. I'm and this plot I can beat
the house at their own game. Shill obviously works for
the dealer, not the mark. The Kansas City Star newspaper
broke down the con in this nineteen seventeen article, quote,
three card Monty was played with three cards, not the
ordinary playing cards. They were cards made for the very purpose.
(23:41):
One of them had a picture of an elephant on it,
another the picture of a snake, and the third a star.
The operator holds the star card in one hand and
the other two between his thumb and forefinger in the
other hand, and throws them on the table or cloth.
He bets, you can't pick the star card, but here's
the Canada Bill worked it in the first place. Most
(24:02):
of his work was done on the railroad trains. You
know how lonesome you get riding along in a smoker car.
Canada Bill always had a capper who was a good
makeup man too. The capper singled out his victim and
took a seat alongside him and began to exchange confidences
long before Canada Bill appeared. When the capper and the
victim became good friends, Canada Bill would heave in sight.
(24:25):
Sometimes he would be a Montana sheep man, sometimes a
retired farmer, sometimes a country merchant. He would plant himself
in the seat opposite the capper and the mark and
pull out a roll of greenbacks and began to brag
about having the best of luck. Then he would tell
about going into Butte and playing three card monty, and
he would produce a set of cards which he said
(24:45):
he'd bought. The capper would ask him what kind of
game it was, and so Canada Bill would throw the
cards and the capper would try his luck at picking
out the Star card, and he'd win three out of
four bets. By this time, the sucker would be getting interested.
Seeing good pass Then Canada Bill's psychology mill would begin
to work. While the cards were laying on the cloth
(25:06):
or the car seat, he would turn his head and
hunt a spittoon, and quick as a flash, the copper
would turn the star cards so the sucker could see it.
And nine times out of ten, the sucker plays because
he thinks he's got a sure thing. When the cards
were switched, the copper would encourage the sucker to make
a huge bet. Whatever card the sucker picked would prove
to be an elephant or a snake, and he would
(25:27):
lose his money. That was because Canada Bill had definitely
replaced the star with superb sleight of hand. Moreover, when
the sucker lost, he was generally afraid to complain because
he'd have to fess up that he thought he had
a sure thing.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, he thinks he's cheating.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
It's so simple, like it plays on psychology, ego, hope,
it's genius.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's like an instantaneous con. You know, you do very
quickly conning and then they get them to think, oh,
I'm going to get over on you, right.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Right, you know you can be the con. So the
Union Pacific Railroad was not so happy to be this
rolling thing you for this con, so they cracked down
on Monty. Bill actually tried to buy an exclusive franchise
for the game from the railroad.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Really, he's let me have this one.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
He wrote to the head of the railroad and said
that he was going to offer them money, and then
some accounts it was ten thousand a year. Others say
it was one thousand a month. There's one that said
it was like thirty grand a year that I'll offer
you money if you let me run three.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Card MONTI.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yes what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No matter how much he.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Offered, the railroad passed on the opportunity, like they don't
want to give him a carve out on the ban
on three card Monty.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
For a reason, we're into this legitimate business because we're
like this, we're.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Like that, and people don't want to ride the rails
if they're going to get taken. So Canada Bill really
put his game on in Omaha, Nebraska. He got really
good at it there and so you know, he always
he played the he dressed the part, you know, going
to be a farmer.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
But like he didn't go overboard, right, So if he.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Said he was, that's right, and he didn't have it
like tuck behind his ear, straw behind his ear and
he would just look like, I'm a prosperous farmer, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
If he was like a merchant.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
He he never overdid what they called the makeup, the
costume of it, and people just would remember him. And
so he pulled these cons over and over and it
got him press as well as attention from the authority.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
That's not what you want.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
It didn't stop people from becoming victims of his scams.
But still so like in the April twenty third, eighteen
seventy three newspaper Omaha Evening Bee, Bill Is.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Reported read a minute the papers called the Omaha Evening b. Yes,
not a morning paper. Usually the B is the morning paper.
They're like the night paper might be to ad at night.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
It's the it's the B side to Gregory, Isaac's night
nurses might be the night be so Billy, they reported.
Bill that morning At appeared in court. He was charged
with conning a man and wife, last name of Jarvis,
at eight hundred dollars at three card Monty in a
saloon south of the Omaha Union Pacific Depot. It's like
(28:11):
the courtroom's packed. Everyone's loving this. They want to see it.
So the first up to testify is the wife of
the saloon owner, Missus Gosman. She tells the Omaha Evening Bee, right,
they noted in there in the paper that she's a
little deaf.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
It's like, okay, was she asked him? Repeat questions, Gosman.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Who's a little deaf?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
She testified, So she said, they're written in parentheses like
the whispering.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, I think this part is important, she said.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
She really wasn't sure what was going on out in
the bar room because she was at the stove in
the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
All right, so I did actually happen.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
What was she doing in there?
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
What was she doing there? Elizabeth?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Thank you zer, and I'm so glad you asked? She
was making a cup of coffee for Canada Bill to
study his nerves. Yeah, and then Henry the owner, he
said he saw Canada Bill like a bunch of times before,
and yeah, I saw him on that day, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Know what he was doing in there. I don't know
anything about gambling.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
And so the deputy City Marshall, Marshall Snowden, he found
Canada Bill later that day and Bill like straight up
told him, yeah, I beat a couple out of.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Some of the months of money.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And then he's like, but I gave it all back
except for like one hundred and fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I kept one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
I was going back and forth.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I have to take you.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
To jail, like you conned them. That was the extent
of the testimony. So Bill's lawyer makes this really good
case of like why he shouldn't get in trouble for it,
and then when he's rendering his judgment, the judge is like,
I am convinced that Bill is guilty of the charges
against him, and he said I was also sure quote
that three card Monty was a swindle and all who
(29:47):
played it were swindlers dealers as well as Kapper's being
equally guilty. And he was like, you know, if we
keep letting this go. It's a blight on our beautiful city.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
He wants the.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Authorities to crack down otherwise people aren't going to want
to come here anymore. But like, he also points out
that apparently there were other witnesses set to testify who
just didn't turn up, and so the testimony that they
had just wasn't enough to convict. So all he could
do was hand out like a severe reprimand, and so
he imposed a fine of fifty bucks bills on his way.
(30:18):
Legend intact. I've talked about Bunkomen before. Oh yeah, so
those and like the three card body guys, they befriended
unsuspecting visitors in town all across the US, and they'd
lure these roubes into card games, like you know Canada
Bill and his fellow card sharps, and they always had
like muscle in the wings waiting to put down an uprising,
(30:39):
and much to the chagrin of like the judges, the
Omaha police generally just left it alone.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
They left all this just.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
So it's kind of like, but see the real pressure
on Canada Bill and his compatriots were the railroad detectives.
So let's go back to Alan pinkertized, I.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Just about to say, I'm sensing some pankritis.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Here's another of his observations on Bill. Quote Canada Bill's
peculiar genius never failed to give him victory. And it
is said of him that he never made a mistake
and never failed to win money whenever he attempted it. Okay,
so he said that, oh yeah, he what set Canada Bill?
According to Pinkerton, set Canada Bill apart from all the
(31:22):
other card sharps was quote the fact that he was
the thing. He seemed to be.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Oh right, so he's not putting on some kind of airs,
and he goes.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
On quote Old gamblers and sporting men could never fathom him.
He was an enigma to his closest friends. A short
study of the awkward ambling fellow would give one the
impression that he was simply supremely clever in his manner,
and makeup that he was merely one of the most
accomplished actors in his profession ever known, and that he
(31:54):
only kept up this appearance of guilelessness for the purpose
of acquiring greater reputation among his fellows. But those who
knew him, as far as it was possible to know,
the wandering vagabond that he was, assert that he was
the most unaffected, innocent and really simple hearted of human
beings and never had been anything and never could have
(32:15):
been anything save just what he was.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So he's almost like a holy fool, but without so
much of the aspect that we would describe to being dumb. Yeah,
it's just an innocent lacking about And I.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Really think it's because of his upbringing, Like he learned
the cons as part of his culture.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, he's what he knows and part of survival.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
He didn't carry the shame others may have hangen around
those activities. So that's just who he is.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Church. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
Yeah, So there's this there's this great article in the
Beaver Crossing Times. You were just am I making him
up to say from eighteen ninety two that echoes much
of what others said. Quote he was large, formed man
with a cleanly shaven face, square jaw, deep set eyes,
(33:02):
the expression of a sphinx. His favorite disguise was the
makeup of a cattle drover, and as there were more
members of that class on the road Canada, Bill had
no difficulty in passing himself off as one of them.
He always carried two or three confederates or cappers with him,
and the money that he won with his three little
cards during half a dozen years would buy a bank
(33:24):
and pay officers' salaries for twenty years. Whenever arrested, Bill
would plead guilty, and no matter how large a fine
would be imposed, he would flash up a bundle of greenbacks,
thank the court for doing its duty, and bow himself
into the street.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
How much was the fine? I got to go?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
So again, he's you know, he's not remorseful.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
He's not he doesn't feel guilty because he doesn't think
that there's no shame in this.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
He think it's an operating cost.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, except cost of doing business.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Now, the Canada Bill Gang broke up in eighteen seventy candid, Yeah,
and most of the members they just went west and
hit up like the gold and silver fields of California
and Nevada.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
But they left this mark on Omaha and.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
The city had a reputation for illegal card rackets for
decades after because of them.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I was gonna say, my grandfather, who was the son
of farmers, and one of his his father's named James
Garfield after the President. All right. They he used to
always warned me when I would go to that, like
when I went to San Francisco and he would tell me, like,
you know, you got to make sure you don't get
involved in like three card MONI I'm like, yeah, people
don't really do that. And then they get to North
Beach and there was something throwing the car. I was like,
(34:33):
I'm putting down twenty on this. I gotta see it.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Well, that's what the omaha. They gave this reputation to him.
Let's let's stop here for a second and we'll get
more Canada Bill after the.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Break, please, Zaren Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Zaven So Canada Bill, can.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I tell you how much I'm digging this?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You know, is any great?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I love nineteenth century crime?
Speaker 5 (35:13):
But this guy, I mean, if he existed, Canada Bill,
now he's real.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
He cheated a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
It sounds like that's he wasn't a bad dude. No,
he gave them entertainment and they don't feel like such
suckers that they're like losing their.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
Homes or like and and there were parts when he
really was not a bad dude at all.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Because Zaren, close your eyes.
Speaker 8 (35:33):
Yeah, as it closed, I want you to picture it.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
It's the spring of eighteen seventy four. You are a
newspaper reporter based out of Chicago. You're on the Lake
Shore Train headed out to Toledo.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Going to visit some family.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
You sit in the smoking car, puffing on a pipe
with your notepad in your lap app thinking about a
collection of short stories you're working on. The train chugs
along in a mesmerizing rhythm. The door to the carriage
slides open and a man enters. You'd know him anywhere.
That's Canada, Bill Jones. Everyone at the paper is fascinated
by him. There's a twinkle in his eye. He nods
(36:19):
at you and takes a seat across the aisle.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
He starts sort.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Of carelessly tossing cards around on the chair opposite him,
laying cards on the seat, flipping him, sorting, shuffling. A
man approaches and watches Bill. Bill offers a game of
three card Monti. This is gonna be good. You think
the guy wins a hand. You know he must be
a capper.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He's in on it. There's just no way.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
This is cemented in your mind when he wins a
second round. Soon, two more gentlemen approach and watch. One
of them takes the bait, and you wait for him
to lose his bet. He does, and he wins. More
men gather and watch. The second fellow tries again and loses,
but he doubles down on a third try and wins.
The gathered group lets out hollers and whoops it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
They can't believe their eyes. Bill shakes his head and
hands over twenty dollars.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Why that very well may be worth five hundred and
fifty dollars one hundred and fifty years time or so.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's some cash.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Just then, a country boy with a pipe in his
mouth approaches, bow legged and obviously out of his element.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
He stares at Bill.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
You'd clocked him watching all of this from the end
of the car, and now he's standing right here next
to you, assessing the game for himself. He reaches into
his pocket and pulls out a stuffed billfold, producing ten bucks.
He bets Bill he can pick the right card.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Bill tells me he's on.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
In quick successive hands, he manages to double his money.
The gathered men chuckle and cheer. He racks up more wins,
three than four, then five hands, then six. You don't
take this guy for a capper based on what you
know of this con Bill has been luring this guy
into a false sense of confidence in his skills at
(38:02):
an unwinnable game. With each win, the guy increases his bets,
ballooning the amount of money at stake. But then his
luck changes. He loses and loses again and again, and
he gets desperate. He tries to increase the bets in
order to make his money back. The smoking car is
now silent, just the sound of the train rolling down
(38:25):
the tracks and the occasional clearing of a throat. To
accompany a massive loss, the man runs out of money.
Two men stand behind you watching the scene. One turns
to the other and asks how much the guy lost
because he wasn't keeping track. Six hundred dollars, the other
man says, man whistles. In one hundred and fifty one
(38:45):
years time, in twenty twenty five, that would be seventeen
thousand dollars lost in a card game.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
In the smoking car of a train on a.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Regional railroad, the country boy stands and straightens himself. Out
car remains quiet. He looks dazed. Excusing himself, he shuffles
past the gathered group and out into the next car.
The men all disperse, some to other ends of the car,
some to other carriages. Canada Bill Jones gathers his cards
and tucks him in the front pocket of his jacket.
(39:15):
He pulls his soft leather cash bag from the interior
pocket of his jacket and places his winnings in there,
a bundle of cash, Joining a crowd of other ill
gotten bills. He takes a newspaper from the seat beside
him and begins to scan the articles. You all ride
along in silence. You think about what you've just witnessed,
think about how to incorporate it into a short story.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Then there's a commotion.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
The door to the smoking car flies open, and a
woman enters, dragging two small children with her.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
She's crying.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
She scans the faces of the men in the car,
most of her their eyes not Canada Bill.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
He looks straight at her.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
She approaches Canada Bill, she asks, yes, ma'am. He answers bawling.
She tells him that she her husband, and their two
small children and had sold out everything they'd owned in
Mercer County, Pennsylvania, and were on their way to Kansas
to start a new life. All the money they had
was the six hundred and some odd dollars that her
(40:11):
husband had just lost in three card money. She then
collapses to her knees, holding onto the seat across from Bill.
Her kids stare wide eyed at the scene. She exclaims
that children and I must starve mister, just because my
man was a fool.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Canada Bill shows no expression.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
He stares at the woman and every soul in the
smoking car seems to simultaneously hold his breath. Slowly, Bill
reaches into his pants pocket. He pulls out an enormous
wad of money. Slowly, he counts off six hundred dollars
and hands it to the woman. Here's your money, madam.
I never rob women and children, but I want you
(40:50):
to keep it to yourself in the future, as that
husband of yours doesn't know enough to go without a guardian.
She is about to say something, but he raises his
hand to stop. He then continues to peel Bills off
the stack twenty after twenty. Then he speaks, here's a
present for the babies, Now run back to them and
stop your crying.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
So Canada Bill.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I love him. Wasn't all bad, dude, I mean, like,
okay one that was fantastic scene like, you know, I
listened to, as I say, often a lot of old
radio shows that felt like something from like Frontier Gentleman
or from like Have Gunwheel Travel totally, I mean even
gun Smoke. I was like, oh, that was an amazing scene.
And then I love that he like wants to protect
the women and the women and the children from the
(41:35):
idiocy of the husband, like I know.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You shouldn't be traveling hat a guardian.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
What a great line, babe. And also how amazing is
it what people used to do before we had cell phones,
iPhones and whatnot. But there's whole industries like that made
for boredom. You're just sitting on a trail and all
the sudden you got gambling. Everyone gets all excited. Yeah
we get none of that now.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, no exactly. And so and he's he refuses to
rob women and show.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yes, love this outlawful caro.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But you know, here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
So not even his former partner in crime with whom
he'd had a falling out, would bad mouth him. Here's
what Devaal said quote there never lived a better hearted
man than Canada Bill. Many a time I've seen him
walk up to a sister of charity and present her
with as much as fifty dollars. Once I saw him
win two hundred dollars from a man on a boat,
(42:20):
and shortly after the little boy came running through the
cabin and Bill gave the boy two hundred dollars, telling
him to take it to his mother. He had no
heart for suckers, however, and he often said gullible people
had no business with money.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yes, I'm with him on that.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
So by eighteen seventy four he was in Chicago. As
we saw on the train, he teamed up with Jimmy
Porter and Colonel Charlie Starr.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Colonel Charlie Star and.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Who those guys were is lost to history, but their
names pop up with Bill and news reports. But I
guess they didn't build the reputation and legacy that build it.
So the guys they ran their train and boat cons
but they were also opening gambling houses in Chicago. What
a time in that city right now. So okay, So
(43:06):
here's a good final anecdote about him. One day Bill
was operating on the train. He's waiting for a mark
and he's strolling down the aisle when he happens upon
this young man sitting alone, and Bill could tell he's green.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
He's a greenhorn.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
So he slaps the kid on his shoulder, asks his name,
how you doing, son, what's your name? And the young
guy he's just like stoked to have someone talk to him,
and so he invites Bill to sit down, tells him
his name and he's you know, says I'm I'm the
nephew of Alexander Ramsey, Sheriff of Ellis County and now sheriff.
Ramsey was one of Bill's nemeses. Yeah, it was very
(43:44):
cat and mouse with those and so Bill he saw like,
this is my chance to get even with Ramsey. So
he sits down and like in a few minutes, he's
got all the young guys money, like and his watch
like every bill on him and the jewel. Oh yes,
after he had fleeced him. Bill turns to the boy
(44:06):
and he says, quote, you go home now and tell
Ramsey that Canada Bill got all your money. Don't forget now,
tell him that Canada Bill got your money for old
acquaintance sake.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Tell him you.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Had to go without your supper because I had your money.
And then I haven't forgotten the time he put me
off that Union Pacific train and made me walk.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
It was like a crentin Tarantino. See can't tell him
Canada Bill was the one.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
You said to go without dinner.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Take this car and I'm gonna ride on a Canada
Bill hand this to Ramsey.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
The boy gets to his destination, his uncle's like picking
him up at the depot.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tells his uncle what happened. The sheriff uncle like he Ramsey.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Order, yeah, So he and his buddy like top on
horses and they chase the train to the next station
and there they boord the train. They find Canada Bill
and Bill he's like in the smoking ca again. He's
like just you know, flouncing around. Ramsey comes in. Ramsey
he like pulled his hat over his eyes and he
went to the seat where Canada Bill had been playing,
and like started he bet on the game that had
(45:11):
just started, so like of course he lost, but he
didn't say anything until about one thousand dollars was put up.
And that's when Sheriff Ramsey pulls out two six shooters,
pulls him on Bill and said, quote, turn down that card,
you know me hand that money over damn quick and Bill.
Bill's not scared Bill is just like so cool, and
(45:34):
Conice hands over the cash and says, quote, of course
the money's yours. You want it, you hold the winning
cards in your hand, Fine take it.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
I like that. The man of law and order now
is the criminal in the start. He's the one robbing Bill.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
So the law man who'd heard about it later told
a reporter that the sheriff's play just like broke Bill,
but quote, he knew it wasn't worth fooling with Ramsey.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Bill was good.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Hearted, but he liked to snake in the Greenies. And
I'm not exactly sure what he means, like I like
to snake in the Greenies, like snake in the grass, right.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
That's what I'm assuming. Yeah, and they getting by.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
You don't want to all someone a snake in the grass.
Now I'm going to go snake in the greenies.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
But I love it.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You want to like slide by. You don't want to
get good? Yeah, you don't want to get the hollies.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Take your head off doing it for me. So in
eighteen seventy seven, Bill fell ill with consumption, totally broke.
He was absolutely destitute.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Well once he can't operate, well, you know, because it
turns out not banking. You know, he's not a guy
that's saving for his retirement.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
But even more so, he was a card sharp, but
he was a rube when it came to farrow.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
He Oh my god, I really love.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
To play farrow. He could not stop.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That game really fell off. I still have poker, we
can still find money. But Pharaoh, it just fell off.
Speaker 5 (46:50):
Everything he made with the cards he turned around and lost.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 5 (46:55):
So? On October twenty second, eighteen seventy seven, he.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Died at the age of around forty Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Who is thought early sixties?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
No?
Speaker 5 (47:04):
So in his funeral was something so the Chicago Inter
Ocean newspaper, they said of the event, quote, his funeral
was probably the strangest ever seen in the Charles Evans Cemetery,
for there were neither tears, nor women nor minister about
the grave that now holds the remains of a man
who died penniless in a strange land, but had the
(47:27):
name one time of having won nearly half a million
dollars at three card montellion dollars and then turn around
and blew it all.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
But you know he also he spread the money around.
He took care of people really paid.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yet he's got payroll for people.
Speaker 5 (47:41):
Right, So a bunch of fellow crooked gamblers paid for
his funeral, yes, And they gathered at the cemetery to quote,
do the last honors for the old sport who'd won
money on nearly every railroad in the United States east
of the Rocky Mountains. So the hearse rolls up the
carriage and the undertaker and his staff go to like
(48:01):
pull the walnut coffin from the carriage, and then one
of the con men asks if Bill's remains are actually
in there, and the Undertaker's like, yeah, they are, but
like the group's not happy with that, and they're like,
unscrew that lid right now. We want to make sure.
And the main guy, who was like kind of the
ringleader of all these cons said, quote Bill was in
(48:23):
many a tight box and worked himself out somehow or another,
and it's no dead sure thing that he ain't got
out of the trip to the cemetery.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yes, so there's just like and this.
Speaker 5 (48:34):
So like the undertaker he starts unscrewing the lid, and
one of the mourners pointed out that the screws weren't
solid silver like they'd paid for. Oh and then another
said quote, Well, Bill's game wasn't one of the squarest,
but I guess there are tricks in all trades, as
well as the Monty players.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
So they're just like respect, fair play.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Everyone cracks up, like they all thought that was hilarious.
Speaker 5 (48:58):
So Bill's body was in fact in the coffin and
they're like, okay, wow, he's dead. And the guy who
was supposed to read like a short prayer never showed up,
so they screwed the lid back on the coffin, lowered
him into the ground, and there was That's the end
of Canada.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Bill.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
There was no one to say words over him, No.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Because the guy who's going to read a prayer and
say something didn't show up, So no one.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Else that was not their jobs, Darin, I get it.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
So Bill, he was known for two famous quotes. They
may or may not have been things that he actually said,
but they're attributed to him in films like Rounders or Yeah,
or in American Gods by that super creep Neil Gamon. Okay,
so the first is quote, it's immoral to let us
sucker keep his money.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I'm telling you it is kind of like the street wisdom.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
Yes exactly, We've heard similar sentiment from other con artists.
And then there's quote, I know it's crooked, but it's
the only game in town, which is so often this story,
so often the story. So, Saren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Oh my god, I just loved this ride. And I'd
like that his earnestness ironically allowed him to do crime
without having like you didn't mention him getting beaten really badly,
nobody like taking potshots at him, no angry people. Also,
he was just a great guy in terms of like
how he separated a wife and the children from like
the sucker husband and realized that, you know, suckers are
(50:20):
one thing, families or another thing. So he has a
very simple view of the world. And I think it's
a little bit ridiculous that he's out of all the
people you're mentioning, you know, Allan Pinkerton, the Ramsey, the sheriff,
he's the most moral person that you mentioned. Yeah, yeah's
you're a ridiculous takeaway, Elizabeth.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
I was really struck by him not having the built
in shame, yes, and that it actually allowed him to.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Be more moral.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
I think because he wasn't trying to cover up any
of his behaviors, and he just was exactly what he
was and unapologetic in it.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
But that allowed him to kind of let things come
and go.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
I found have you found that have you've known Rama?
I found that often to be the case with the
roma I've known, is that because there's like not those pretensions,
they're allowed to just be a person. You know, they
don't have all these well I gotta shave face and
act like I'm this and I go to church on
Sunday to forget what I did on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
They just are understanding that things come and go.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
Yeah, exactly, That's what I mean. It's just part that's
like how nature is. So you're much more in tune
with the rhythms of nature than the pretensions of man.
Speaker 5 (51:26):
Yeah, and so I just that's one of the fascinating
things about him was that that element of it.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
What I would love to cap this all off with
is a talk back.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I can't help you, producer, d can you? I got you?
Oh my god, I like.
Speaker 6 (51:50):
His eyes. My name is Morgan. I'm a new listener
to the podcast and I love it. It's so funny,
but the other day, I was listening and Zara said
he had a cuddle site with the interns, and I
had no idea who the interns were, so I seemed
a little inappropriate, but Elizabeth them clarified that they are
four legged interns, not too so thank you for clarifying
(52:11):
that you have mutant four legged human interns. Thanks guys,
sorry for that.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Workplace.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, no, it's not that kind.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
And they're also they're not mutants.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
And they started the cuddle fight. I just responded, and
they are dogs. They are.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
That's the funniest thing ever. I love Thank you for that.
That's it for today. With the notion of you just
like aggressively cuddling like college students.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
You take this pillow, hit me with it, I'll hit
you back, don't give me a hug.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
All the iHeart lawyers line. That's it for today. You
can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com.
Speaker 5 (53:01):
Did you know the website got a speeding ticket over
the weekend.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
I'm sorry about the house. I should have told you.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
The website lost its license and now it rides a
bike everywhere.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
That explains why it was locked up next to mine.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
We're also Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and Instagram. We're
on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can email us
at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Most importantly, leave a talkback on the iHeart app reach out.
Speaker 5 (53:37):
Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,
produced and edited by inventor of twelve Card Monty Dave Cousten,
starring Analys Rutger as Judith. Research is by Riverboat Detective
Marissa Brown. The theme song is by Card Sharp Cappers
with Hearts of Gold Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Post
wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and
(53:59):
makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are Pinkerton
HR representatives Ben Bollen and Noel Brown. Gridicous Crime, Say
It One More Times Crime.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
from my Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Zaron Burnett
Elizabeth Dutton
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