The Most Interesting Man of the 1940s: Charles Edwards

What good is an ice cream cone without the ice cream? What's an elaborate mating ritual without the dirty deed? What's a con without a payoff? Producer Dave dives deep into the life of 1940s LA man about town Charles Edwards, who created a lot of sizzle but somehow never managed to turn it in to a steak dinner.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Elizabeth Dutton Dave Kustin.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Elizabeth, do you know what's ridiculous?

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You know what I do? I do lay on me
normally because you know you're here guesting and I love that.
I'm not going to give you a mashup. Oh, I'm
not going to portray you with a mashup. But it
is Cheetos related, Okay, so I apologize for that. But

(00:29):
there's this guy in Seattle, right He's a TikToker. He
goes by the name Sunday Nobody. He posted a video
where he made a custom built tomb for a bag
of flaming hot Cheetos because he wanted to preserve the
snack quote for centuries. I like this, he said, yeah,

(00:51):
he said quote. I just do these meme art projects.
It's a fun side of hobby. Right now. My dead
job is working as an animator. When I'm not a
nine to five, I usually I'm usually my art studio.
That's what he told Newsweek. I don't have TikTok. I
haven't watched the video, so I'm just guessing on how
he sounds. But anyway, three thousand pounds of concrete, you know,

(01:12):
like the by the eighty pound bag. He it cost
him like over twelve hundred dollars to put this thing together.
He's keeping the location a secret. It's somewhere in the
Pacific Northwest, and the Cheetos. It's not like he has
like this big tomb, right and it looks like a coffin,
and instead of filling it with like chalk full of

(01:32):
flame and hot Cheeto bags, he just has one that
he placed. He like cast it in resin, and then
it's all torture chambers suspended by chains in there. A
ton of people sent this to us in a million
different ways, and I don't know what to think.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's just like a like a fifty shades of gray
with a Cheeto.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yes, it is fifty shades of orange. It's terrible, he said.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think there's a thing I'm missing, like there's a
there's something so.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Steeping, he said. I thought I'd been bored many times
in my life, but now I've realized that I've never
truly I've never been truly genuinely bored, like Cheeto's sarcophagus board.
That's what a user commented, And then someone else said
they'll either think we worshiped hot cheetos or that they
destroyed us all. So anyway, that's like, that's the reaction

(02:23):
to it. This guy, I don't know, he's like mister
art guy. But I'm with you. I feel like I'm
missing something like there's a reference or I don't know whatever,
But you know what, bottom line, ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
That is ridiculous. I mean it's one of those things
like thank you. I don't know if you remember, in
the early days of the Internet, people would do like
fun little projects and there would always be some like
basically energy vampire who'd be like God, who has all
that time on their hands to do whatever? And and
I feel like now I'm just embracing it. I'm like,

(02:54):
more power to you. I'm glad that you found the
time to do this, that you cook this up, and
that whatever it means to you, like you've found your truth.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
So yeah, God, bless more ridiculous power to the notion
of the energy vampire. We have a lot of like
energy and happiness vampires. I'm guilty of it a little bit,
but uh, I think I'm trying to mend my ways,
you know, try not to make fun of people. For
the things they like.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, that that is that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
It is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Cough guts for a cheetos.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Ridiculous, is so ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I will tell you what else is ridiculous, please do
if you'll permit, okay, pulling off a series of fairly
elaborate cons, none of which have any connection to bagging
really any amount of money.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Wait, cons for CON's sake.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, they're just like I mean, this guy and I
can't wait to tell you about him. He's he turns
some like crazy things, which you would think we are like, Okay,
so then you're gonna get paid. Okay, no, no, so
that you're gonna do that, and then you're gonna get
a big bag of money. But it turns out there's
really nothing at the end of that rainbow. Oh wow,

(04:22):
this is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.
Heis and cons. It is always ninety nine percent murder free,
and it is one ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yes, Elizabeth Dave, I almost said, Zaren Dave.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Do you remember how I got the idea for this one?

Speaker 1 (04:42):
No wait, newspapers dot Com?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, uh no, actually no, so so this was you
probably don't. You're not going to put two and two
together because you don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
What rarely do?

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Of course I rarely. Yeah, I mean you get five
when you put them together. It was just after one
of your some Art Forger episodes, and I was like
lazily searching eBay for Art Forger paintings or something like that.
Oh my god, yes, and like because I'm a little
bit obsessed with like I would love to find like
an Elmere or something. I mean, obviously I could never

(05:14):
afford an Elmir, but one of these things that one
of these folks have painted to put up that's like,
you know, just maybe a little sketch or something. Yeah,
but yeah, so I'm looking for that stuff, and I
came across this listing and I'm going to try to
show it to you. Let's see if I can do that. Yeah.
So it was a guy. He's in like county blues,

(05:34):
handsome looking chap and he's got some like pieces of
paper in his hand. Is this ringing a bell at all?

Speaker 1 (05:39):
No?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Here?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Hang on?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Oh yeah yeah yeah. Okay, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
You don't read any of my text do you?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I do. I don't read anybody's texts ever. Wait, do
you sent this to me as a text?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah? So anyway, Uh, the title of the auction is
nineteen forty six photo Charles Edwards and then redacted redacted
redacted because I want the rest to be a surprise. Okay, So,
like I said, it's like very handsome man in County Blues.
He seems to reading a letter, and I should say
as like you can see here the County Blues in

(06:17):
nineteen forty six, they were incredibly stylist.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
We maybe, yeah, it's very like Japanese workwear now.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, like I think mister die Workware on Twitter would
probably write about twelve tweets about the cut and.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
The drape of just I would I want his take
on this. I love that guy, by the way, maybe we'll.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Reach out to him after this, Yeah, after this, heirs.
But anyway, so from here, I'm off to the races,
and you're going to find out why. What I'm sitting
there thinking is like who was this man and why
is he sitting in jail pondering his plight? And why
did it come up for the word forgery. So today's
story takes place mainly in the early to mid nineteen forties,
long before the civil rights movement, or Landmark Brown versus

(06:58):
Board of Education decision in nineteen fifty four that finally
desegregated schools, among other things. So, in addition to the
slants of various news publishers that you get when you
go back in time or really anytime, you also had
newspapers that cater to white people, and in a place
like Los Angeles, you had black owned newspapers.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
So there are two particularly prominent ones at that time,
the Los Angeles Tribune and the California Eagle. Okay, they're
both heavy sources in today's story. So it's the early
nineteen forties. If you're reading the black owned newspapers, you're
going to be pretty familiar with this name, Charles Edwards.
You know him as like a sometimes columnist. He's billed

(07:38):
as a movie producer and a cinematographer, as a youth leader,
possibly as a war hero hu And here are the
kinds of things you'd be reading about him in the
California Eagle or things byline to Edwards or about him.
So in nineteen thirty nine you read this glowing profile
of how he became a movie producer and how the
black youth of California should find their own way. You

(07:58):
read various advice columns more about to the youth, and
every time he lists himself he lists himself as a
youth leader or a motion picture director or both. Okay,
So then like turn the page or a week there's
an article about his dad coming to visit and you're thinking, gosh,
this must be a very important person. Here's the article,
Charles Edwards Senior visits son here is wildly feted. The

(08:22):
visitors spent a day at the hal Roach lot watching
the Charioteers and the production of Road Show. While on
the coast, Edwards will take in the World's Fare at
San Francisco on Friday night. He'll be interviewed on the
Gold Hour. Afterwards, will be the guest of Mister and
Missus Bill Robinson at the Annual Police Show, which sounds
like a hoot.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Right, and.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
He will attend a party at the home of Hattie
McDaniel Academy Award Star.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
So like, yeah, this guy must be a pretty big deal.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, they're rolling out the carpet.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Next thing you know, you're reading about how Charles Edwards
Junior just did a big deal with Hal Roach Studios.
In nineteen forty one to make multiple pictures with a
galaxy of youth stars. Okay, next week you read a
multi part series of reports from the war. He claimed
that in nineteen thirty seven Charles Edwards interviewed Adolf Hitler
when he went to Germany with the World Conference of

(09:11):
Christian Youth. What and he was given permission by the
Nazi Feurer to inspect all the youth training camps.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
What.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Pretty impressive guy, who, like I can't believe we've never
heard of him in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
He later also said that in nineteen forty two he
received a Distinguished Youth Award from President Roosevelt. And then
in nineteen forty two you see a strange mention in
the gossip columns. One columnist is talking about a follow
up on a tip he received that connected Edwards romantically
to a film starlet of the time. And I got
to read this for you because the language is incredible.

(09:45):
It starts out if you follow the old colume regularly
and he spells colum kol yum. Oh my god, yes,
you'll remember that. Two weeks ago, I said, Charles Edwards
gleefully informs me that he has engaged to the lovely
Gladys Snyder. Haven't investigated yet, but we'll let you know later.
I did not believe it at first, and meant to

(10:06):
call the young artist and ask her, but have been
so busy that I did not find time. Wish I
could copy the whole letter here, but she says it
was very humiliating for such a report to be made,
and that she hardly knows the guy.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Wait what.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, it's mind boggling that you know he's getting this
kind of coverage. And then he's also been to war
and he's also the famous filmmaker. Yeah yeah, And now, oh,
what's this In nineteen forty four, he's at the christening
of a warship. This is the Victory Ship Ida M.
Tarbell at cowship and there's a photo so you can
actually see him at this christening.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Sure he's everywhere. This guy's everywhere.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, he's a regular Zelig. So there's this
mix of things that read okay, things that are implausible.
There's a repetition of certain facts that start to make
you think like, okay, maybe this person does have some
notoriety or at least has done some of these things.
But then Elizabeth a bit later in this very same newspaper,
do you come across a different kind of headline? Ooh,

(11:03):
October twenty eighth, nineteen forty six, you read arrest of
Charles Edwards as forgery suspect. There's bizarre hoax on White
attorney and Bar association.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Whoa wow.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
So you're running to the newsstand and grabbing some of
the other papers at the time. What does the La
Times say? Hoax lawyer Joiner paler of film stars booked
as forgery suspect. And I'll read you a little bit
of this one. Yeah, yeah, what authorities regard as a
fantastic masquerade ended in the county jail yesterday for a lanky,
soft spoken man of twenty eight booked on suspicion of forgery.

(11:37):
During the years covered by the investigation, the suspect was
asserted to have gained admission to the state bar and
been admitted to practice in federal courts by a hoax,
to have associated with numerous Hollywood notables, and to have
joined many organizations, some with opposed aims.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Oh, and then the.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Next day federal charges are added. So now your head
is absolutely spinning. A couple of days later, you go
back to your paper of record, the California Eagle, one
of the black owned papers, where you read Edwards's columns,
and you come across this weird letter from the editor
in chief quote. I emphatically deny that I ever recommended
Charles Edwards for admission to the State Bar Association, as

(12:17):
falsely reported in a news story in the Los Angeles
Daily News of October twenty ninth. I admit that Jerry
Geisler called me about an hour before going to court
and stated that he was glad to be of service
to me in sponsoring my nephew, Charles Edwards for the bar.
Like this, this is a Wendy's What's going on? It
goes on Immediately. I explained to mister Geisler that I

(12:41):
was not related to mister Edwards, and that, like many
other youngsters in the community, I had tried to help
Charles often referred to me as Auntie. I also explained
to mister Geisler that I understood that Edwards had been
studying law at the University of Southern California, but I
had no knowledge of his completing the course, and suggested
that some investigation be made mister Geisler asked me if

(13:01):
I knew of anything against Edward's record, and I answered
that I knew of some juvenile trouble. Geesler then said
he had examined Edwards state barcard and was satisfied with it.
I was so amazed by Jerry Geisler's sudden announcement that
he was sponsoring Edwards that I did, in my own
personal interests go to the courtroom. But I refuse to
be a party of the sponsoring group in a picture

(13:22):
that was taken. Nor did I publish the event in
The California Eagle, of which I am editor publisher and
she finishes. I know Charles Edwards to be a mentally
sick person, and over a period of years, have tried
to help him, as I have tried to help many
other youngsters. However, I have no intention of accepting responsibility
for the mistakes of others. Signed Charlotta a Bass, editor

(13:43):
publisher of the California Eagle.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Oh, Charlotta has no time for this.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
What the hell is going on?

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Oh she they tried to rope her in.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Oh well, she's also the one who's been publishing like
she's been agreeing to let him be this columnist, all
the weird stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
But he's gone like a step too far. He's he's
become overly familiar, it seems.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
I guess so. And and in the course of this,
the case has absolutely made him into a minor celebrity.
So they're like breathless day by day reports from jail
on how he's doing, what he's eating. There's all kinds
of juicy sound bites attributed to him.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
I love that. She's like, they wanted me to get
in the picture as part of this, and I said,
new New News.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, and the subtext I don't know if you picked
it up, but she says, like, well, I mean in
personal interest, I did go to the courthouse, so she
was going to vouch.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
For him well, and probably also here's about this are
they are they using my name? I'm going to go
in there and check it out.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
But yeah, and I'll get involved. But but I'm not
going to stand for the phone.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
No, he is.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
He is unwell, and this is on the down load,
Like I'm not going to publish it in my paper,
but but I am going to recommend him for the
state Bar and I am.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Going to publish it by writing this letter from the
editor now that things have editor's note. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
So so once he's arrested, there's like this parade of
photos of him with famous celebs, which is very strange,
like they're legit photos. It really looks like, oh, here's
him with with you know, Hattie McDaniel. H The press
is hooked, their theories flying like is he unwell, is
he a scoundrel? Is he just pure as the driven
snow and doesn't know any better?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh god, that's a good defense.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, I just don't know. Well, you'll see like he's
got he's got a few defenses. But just in the
in the course of reading about this, here's a short
list of the epithets they used for him. Because he's,
as you saw in that picture, he's a handsome guy.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Lanky, soft spoken man. Charlie Boyce still making with mystery,
California's dreamy kid, Dick the Slip, which I guess was
who an expression of the time. Yeah, Central Avenue's gay masquerader,
well publicized super Duper, and finally Charles the Audacious.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Oh Charles, I like the super Duper. He's a real
super deeper.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Okay, so I'm going to freeze time right here because
I can do that.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, yes you can.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Let's roll some of what my fourth grade teacher, Ms.
Nora Kennedy would call advertisements. Yes, and then and then
we'll regroup. So taken, Takenney, everybody, you got it.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Elizabeth, you're still with me, Dave, I'm here and I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Excellent. So we've got Charles Edwards, mister Dick the slip,
mister Charles the audacious. He is in a heap of trouble.
How about if I run down what we do know
about him, and then we'll get into the crimes he's
accused of doing. And then if you and the rude
dudes are good, I will unfreeze time and we can
pick up the trial in progress.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yes, good sounds good?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
All right? So Charles Joseph Edwards Junior was born March fifth,
nineteen eighteen, in New Orleans. From what I could tell,
his mom and dad divorced when he was about four,
and his mom took him to Los Angeles, where she
had existing family. Now, I imagine life was pretty tough
at that time for a black single mother and child
coming to LA with very little and trying to get

(17:24):
by on their own right, like in nineteen in the
twenties nineteen yeah, yikes.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
And reports from one paper also suggest that her relatives
in La hated her ex husband so much so that
they took it out on Charles Junior, thinking like, oh,
this is what you got from that guy, and yeah,
and would give them no help. It's hard to fact check,
but you know that probably adds up.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, it tracks, I guess.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
And Charles would say later that this is what motivated
him in life and he wanted to prove to them
that he was a somebody and capable of great things.
And you know, maybe that makes sense. Who knows. Maybe
we can come back to this in the ridiculous takeaways
or not. We'll see. What we know about his dad,
Charles Senior is that he worked for a company that
would merge or get acquired by Standard Oil. He ended

(18:11):
up working for ESO or Standard Oil for over fifty years.
There's just like big celebration when he retires, and he
has other kids, and it seems like he must have
kept in touch with Junior, because Junior is mentioned in
some of these articles, and he's actually also mentioned in
Senior's obituary. But back to Charles Junior. It's believed that
he went to high school in LA and got quote

(18:32):
a record number of f's. He did maybe a year
of night school at Loyola Pre Law after that. One
reporter has her doubts because of the way he pronounced
it Loyola. It was like al apostrophe Yolaola. I don't know, yeah,
and I'm assuming that's Loyla Merrymount, right.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, I was suppose so yeah, okay, because.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, the weird thing is like he was raised in
New Orleans, so it could have been Loyola there.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh yeah, good point, well somewhere it was somewhere.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah. And here's where his story gets a little hairy. So,
as Charles explained it, he had been convicted of a
felony a bit earlier, at age twenty, which would be
probably like nineteen thirty eight, nineteen forty around there. He
says he got into a car accident and each driver
had agreed to pay for their own repairs. They're like,
let's keep insurance out of this. But he didn't have
any money, so and I quote, he wrote a check

(19:24):
to himself, signed it himself, and cashed it a bank
where he had no funds, having no funds in any bank,
using the bank book of his employer as reference. Oh
even then, you know, even in nineteen forty, this was
not hard for the bank to figure out. Right, So
he's hit with a felony conviction. He got a ninety
day sentence and three years probation and at least, as

(19:45):
he tells that, this felony conviction would get in the
way of every attempt he made to try to better himself. Yeah,
but back to Loyola in his in his night program
pre law, one day, his professor comes in and says, hey, everybody,
like it's time to file intent to become a lawyer
if that's what you think you want to do. And
by the way, one thing is, you cannot become a
lawyer if you've been convicted of a felony, won't. Wah

(20:08):
hm hmm. So that's where he says, Oh, so I
bounced from the program because I realized, like it's gonna
happen for me. Yeah, but there was something about the
law that caught his attention just before he found out
that lawyers could join the bar with a felony conviction
if they got a letter of recommendation from the clerk
of the State Supreme Court, saying that they vouch for them.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh okay, that makes sense, which.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
You know, not a lawyer, I have no idea about
the veracity of these things.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, it makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
But Charles is a resourceful fellow, and he says, I
just phoned up the clerk. I asked her a recommendation,
and they said yes straight away. And the reporter speculates
like maybe they thought there was already a practicing lawyer
named Charles Edwards, and he was just like needed. There
was like a triviality that like, oh, yeah, I need
this letter for something or other. Could you just type
something up there.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's a common name, you'd imagine, Yeah, it's not unusual.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
So Charles smartly sent a white classmate to pick it up,
and he's got it. Boom, He's got what he needed.
And so that's how he says. Ultimately he got his
California State barcard. So next he sets his sight on
the Federal bar and again, I'm not a lawyer, and
details of this are all sketched, So this is the
best I could put together. He decides that he would

(21:20):
get a recommendation for this for the Federal Bar from
the best of the best. A famous Hollywood lawyer of
the time whose name you have now heard, Jerry Geisler.
Jerry has handled cases for an amazing array of celebrities.
We're talking Clarence Darrow, Charlie Chaplin, Errol Flynn, Marilyn Monroe.
He I think he handled like the divorce the DiMaggio

(21:41):
Monroe divorce case.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh wow, he's the guy.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, And apparently he's so famous that the phrase get
me Geisler was like a famous thing that the press
would say anytime a celebrity got in trouble.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, So I'll let Almina Davis, editor of the black
owned Los Angeles Tribune, explain what happened. This is from
like long editorial she wrote after interviewing Edwards and then
reflecting on everything he had said and putting some pieces together.
So it's like a she had said, she wrote it
one way, and then she thought about it and talked
to her owner and was like, oh wait, some of
this says't add up. So then she writes this like

(22:14):
other piece explaining like what she think is happening. So
with Geisler, here's what she says. Quote The Geisler incident
was another stroke of genius. Needing a sponsor before the
federal bar Charles decided he would like to have the
best known mouthpiece in the state, and went down and
asked Jerry Geisler, how's about it? It was an edwardism.
One can't help but admire. Geisler was his sucker. Man

(22:35):
of the world, man so much of the world that
he probably never has a moment to give, and thought
these less fortunate than himself, the widows and the orphans,
the starving Armenians, the Arkansas sharecroppers, the oppressed negroes. He
probably saw Edwards as the answer to a prayer he
really intended to get around to praying someday. And there's
a quote within the quote. This is like her attributing

(22:56):
it a young negro struggling to get ahead in a
world that doesn't always treat him as kindly as it should.
Here was Jerry's chance to get in a few credits
with his maker. Do it your dog gone right, He'll
do it. Think nothing of it. Glad to do it, always,
glad to help a member of your race. Admire your
race very much. Think it's a darn shame. The way
they treat you down South. You're to be congratulated, young man.

(23:18):
I know you'll do a lot for your people. Once again,
Charles was in.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Wow, there's a lot to I'm back there if I
would have voted for Obama a third time. Energy in
that totally.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And you know, like I'll meet a Davis, editor in
chief of a black newspaper, and this is the you know,
the forties where there's like a few you know, black
lawyers and black professionals who have really fought tooth and
nail to get ahead. But for the most part, the
country still sees all black people as second class citizens.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
And she's calling it out. Oh yeah, yea.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
So one thing she notes is that Edward succeeded in
many of these cons because the people he was conning,
in some sense wanted to be conned, which is something
that I think you in Zar and have both pointed out.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Over the episodes. They kind of wanted to believe that
here's a guy in need of help who's like the
perfect puzzle piece for their emotional needs too.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, it makes them feel really good about themselves.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, and you know it's not always like oh can
you can you lend me some dollars. Sometimes it's like, yeah,
do me a turn. And I think Zaren has said
to me before, if you really want to ingratiate yourself
to somebody, let them do you a favor.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Right, Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
So I also want to draw your attention back to
the editorial that the editor of that other black owned
newspaper wrote when he got arrested, where Charlotta Bass says
that Jerry Geisler called her right to get her recommendation
to sponsor Charles for the bar. Now, remember she mentioned
Geisler calling her for a reference and then saying she
ultimately agreed to help out even though she knew Charles
was quote unwell right, mm hmm. So this guy he

(24:53):
Boots dropped his way in and everybody kind of went
along with it, even when they had a clear and
obvious reason not to. It's not like it was subtle.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
And once he has these credentials, he got an actual
job as a lawyer's assistant, which is kind of funny
to think about, Like he goes through all this trouble
just to get like a low paying job.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, So he works for a lawyer named Richardson for
a time doing pretty low key things like he's filing
continuances and handling other documents. He also seems to have
done a lot of swaning around in Hollywood, although it's
hard to separate fact from fiction here. He would later
say he quote worked for Interracial Unity and in that
capacity worked with Orson Wells hmm. He says he worked

(25:32):
with Benny Davis in Hollywood canteen activities. And then he's
got some connection to the USO, or at least claims
to hmm. And he says he has been quote working
actively in the support of various campaigns of various Democratic
candidates Will Rogers, Helen Douglas, Jack Shelley, and Robert Kenny.
And the weird thing is there are these photos with
him with famous actors and celebs. There's a photo with

(25:53):
Van Johnson, Victor Mature, Lena Rome, Carmen Miranda, and like
he must have just been really good at horning in
on photo ops, is what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Remember doctor Dante did that where he'd be like, hey,
can I get a picture, and then he'd use it
as like an endorsement from these people, And yeah, and
it seems like this dude. He takes like what could
be plausible scenarios, and it's and on things that perhaps
would be a little underreported, so you're not going to
see it all over the press. And it would make sense,

(26:24):
you know, like the Orson Wells stuff. You're like, that
kind of makes sense. That tracks.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, and it's also positive. It's like, yeah, Persona Bulson's
gonna be like, no, I'm not working for racial unity,
what are you talking about? I mean he might but
yeah and yeah. And the other thing is probably with
Jerry Geisler, and this may have even been what he
was thinking. With him as his sponsor, he represents all
these people, so he's probably like, hey, Jerry, can I
get a picture with so and so?

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Like yeah, sure kid, you know yeah, and the security,
the security around people wasn't so tight, you know.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, you could probably like stroll up in the middle
of a photo op or an interview.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
And yeah that they hit him up at the brown derby.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
There you go. So he's or what was the guy's name, Michael, Michael.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Roman Romanov, Yeah, romanovs so.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
And he's also the other thing about his his way
of being is he's a joiner. He joined as many
organizations as he could find, no matter their political stripe.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
In fact, when he was arrested, he had membership cards
with the KKK but also been a breath wait and
also the Communist Party. And he's he's at least black
presenting for sure. Oh yeah, and he said, you know,
he's national president of the National Youth Organization. And then
he lists off like other organizations he's a member of
or a leader in, and it's Benaborreth KKK, Knights of

(27:43):
Columbus or Knights of Columbia. I don't know if that's
the same thing. Who knows the Gerald L. K. Smith Organization,
the Communist Party and the Anti Fascist League.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Everything's probably like just a little bit off. So it's
not Knights of Columbus, it's Knights of Columbia. And the
KKK is the letter K letter, k q U A, why.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Cuban, the kk Cuban Foundation. But but no, like when
they bust him, he has these cards on him, so
he really you know, at that time, you couldn't like
sign up through computer like he would have had to
have actually gone somewhere and told somebody who wants to join.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Or forged the cards.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
There you go, yeah, that's also possible. Yeah, but it's
a lot of work, like it might.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Be, there's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So and he's asked about this later and he says
something about, you know, I wanted to understand how these
organizations work from the inside so that I can better
work towards racial harmony and world peace. Well, I mean.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Again, maybe, but like you're going, yeah, then you know I.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Could see that, Elizabeth. This is what we in the
deli meat slicing business call a little thin I was
a deli meat slicer. So where are you? I say
that in good faith. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
All your fingers intact.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
All my fingers intact. Although there is that like it's
a it's a crazy weird feeling that when you work
in a deli you are staring at the slicer sometimes
thinking like what would happen? What would happen if I
just stuck my hand in there?

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Oh yeah, I could totally see that. I would. I
would have those intrusive thoughts. Not that I'd want to
do it, but it's like I have poultry shears in
my kitchen, and anytime I'm like, you know, spatchcocking a
chicken and really just like cutting through bone. I'm mad.
I get terrified that my finger's going to get stuck
up in there, and it's just like poop and I'll
watch like the tip of my index finger go bouncing

(29:26):
across the counter.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
So it's a strange thing that human brains do.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
So, once this stuff hit the national papers, the Louisiana
Press got their mojo working too, and Louisiana Press is
on it. And it turns out he had pulled some
shenanigans with the Louisiana bar as well. Oh he somehow
got letters of recommendation from quote leading Negro citizens, including
a YMCA executive secretary, two lawyers, and a minister. Now, Elizabeth,

(29:53):
how the hell do you think he was pulling all
this off? Was it as easy as like getting someone
on the phone and sweet talking them?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Rather than tell you the answer to that question, or
even letting you guess anymore, I want you to be
about the answer to that question, Elizabeth, close.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Your eyes as it closed.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
I want you to picture it. You are in a
small law office in the Central Business District of New Orleans.
It's on Poyter Street on the other side of Canal
from the French Quarter, right by Mother's restaurant, home of
the best Poe Boy sandwich with debris back then and
now stately industrial, but also quite variable from block to block.
Think you know gas street lamps, air thick as a cake,

(30:34):
and giant prehistoric bugs. Your name is Nicole Abert. You're
the gal Friday to a famous black attorney named apterau.
Ap is in his office reviewing the case files for
a family that was thrown out of their home by
unscrupulous land speculators. You are in the front room, lazily
typing up notes from a deposition. You hear the jingle

(30:54):
of the door as a handsome young man in an
impeccable three piece suit glides through the door. He asked
speak to mister Tureau about a pressing matter. You look
in your appointment book and your Rolodex, but don't find
this young man's name anywhere. He's polite, but grows obviously impatient.
It's nearing the end of your morning shift and you're
due to meet friends at a bar in the quarter
for a lunchtime happy hour. Anyone in the legal profession

(31:15):
drinks for half price from eleven thirty to one thirty,
so you decide to just let this guy have what
he wants. You knock on mister Truro's inner door and
he lets you in. Mister Charles Edwards esquire here to
see you, sir. You leave, but your curiosity gets the
best of you. So you do what you always do
with particularly juicy conversations. You leave the inner door just
a jar an alternate typing and listening. This is how

(31:38):
you've gotten some of your best gossip, and that's one
of the better forms of currency in this town. The
first part of the conversation was a bit muffled, but
then you hear interrogatory from the visiting mister Edwards. Mister Tureau,
I wonder if you'd help out an aspiring attorney who
has watched and admired your career from afar. You see,
I am a native New Orlenian, and my father, Charles Senior,
a hard working oil man. He looks true dead in

(32:00):
the eye as he says that part tells me stories
about you all the time, about all the good you've
done for the people of this city. Now Toureau is
not fully taken in by the young Edwards, but the
flattery does soften him up a bit. Glad to help
you in any way I can, mister Edwards. Of course,
my practice is not very lucrative, and I'm afraid I
don't have much to offer in terms of funds. Oh,

(32:22):
mister Tureau, it's nothing like that. Please. I am perfectly
capable of seeing to my own affairs. I'm a successful
attorney in my own right, of course, of course, So
what can I do for you, sir? Well, you see
there are some matters before the Federal Court that I
expect will be in need of my services in the
next few months. Being new to this type of representation,
and seeing as this isn't something they covered at Leola,

(32:44):
I was just wondering if you could help me understand
how one gains admission to the Federal bar. Terreaux relaxes
a little realizing that this isn't some charity solicitation, and
it's an answer he can freely and easily give. Well,
mister Edwards, it's quite straightforward, really. You simply submit your
application along with letters of recommendation from upstanding members of
the bar and of society at large. Letters of recommendation.

(33:08):
Of course, I have just the folks in mind who
I'd get to pen those for me. Tell me, mister Trueau,
how should those letters read? I want to make sure
I share the right instructions with my distinguished acquaintances. Oh,
it's just the typical stuff. They should speak to your
character and accomplishments. Character and accomplishments. Edwards pretends to jot
notes down. Mister Trureau, would you happen to have a

(33:30):
sample of one of these letters for me to peruse
so that I instruct my colleagues appropriately? Oh? Of course.
Trurou flips through the file organizer on his desk as
he mutters to himself. Here this is a copy of
a letter of recommendation I submitted last March for my
dear friend thirgood Marshal. He hands Edward's the letter. Oh
this is perfect, Thank you, Counselor why would you mind

(33:51):
if I borrow this for a day or two. I'd
like to type up some sample copies to give out
to show a stellar example of how these things should flow.
Would that be okay?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
You?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Do you need it for any purpose in the next
couple of days? You hear Tourou clear his throat as
he considers the question. He can't come up with the
reason to say no, And yet it feels a little
strange as he just met this young man, and yet
on the third hand, he already feels a deep kinship
to him. I don't see why not just fill a
slip with miss Eber and do get it back to

(34:21):
me by noon Monday, No exceptions understood, Yes, sir, now Elizabeth.
A few days later, Edwards did in fact return the
letters to Apteruro's law practice, and everything seemed to be
on the up and up. Yeah, until Tourou read of
Edward's arrest in the papers and dove back into his
files to look at the return letters. When he pulled
them out of their file, he shocked at what he found.

(34:44):
They were horrible copies, like misspelling, sloppiness, and they're even
on the wrong letterhead. Oh no, So what Edwards had
done was take the originals, erase Thurgood Marshall's name and
type in his own in its place.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Then it was probably like that onion skin paper.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
So yeah, but still, my god.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
And this is a trick he managed to pull off
over and over again until he's finally caught.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Now, Edwards did commit a couple of other crimes in
addition to all of the forgery and fraud, most notably
back in Los Angeles in September nineteen forty five, apparently
he goes into the police station that had his felony records,
brandishing a cops badge and demanded to borrow them. Surprisingly,
what do you know this worked? Oh my god, And
when he's arrested, the records were found at his home.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Now it's still weird to me that most of what
he wanted to do was fake his way into being
a lawyer so that he could be a lawyer's assistant.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah. Yeah, he didn't go all in with it. That's weird.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I mean, I guess I see it like maybe he
wanted kind of stability and earning power and felt like
this was the fastest way to get there.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Maybe it would give him access to other documents.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
I don't know, because like this was all going on
over a number of years, and there was nothing like
that seemed to come of it, other than like he
had like a you know, a pretty low paying job,
which you know, fair enough, he may not have been
able to get that job as a black man at
that time. Like maybe he wouldn't have been able to
work at a law firm at all.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, maybe and maybe or maybe it's like he like
that yearning for stability, for like a salaryman job, and
maybe that's all he wanted, was that? How am I
going to get through life? Like I need to have
something that just pays the bit? I mean, I don't know, Yeah,
who knows. But it still doesn't seem like a plan
that's well thought out or maybe even thought out at all. Yeah,
and most con artists we've covered take a much more

(36:37):
direct route. It's like, yeah, they have money, how do
I get the money from their pocket into my pocket?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Exactly exactly, But.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Anyway, let's unfreeze time and slide back into the heady
days of late October November nineteen forty five when he
gets arrested. But first I'm going to conjure up some
delightful ads. Yes, hey everyone, we're back.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Hello, time unfrozen.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Yeah, you can breathe again, Breathe again.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Breathe again.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Your cells can start reproducing again. We are sitting here
talking America's sweetheart, Charles Edwards. He had built this house
of cards of various fake but impressive legal credentials while
also sidelining and joining every organization he could think of
and getting captured in photos with Hollywood's finest and christening

(37:49):
actual military vessels. I love that, And I want to
remind you again that none of these capers really got
him any closer to some kind of big payoff.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, just out of notoriety.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I got him some nice pieces of paper and
his wallet and maybe some hob nodding, I guess. Yeah.
One other thing that I didn't mention that is worth
mentioning in passing is this guy ap Terret who had
written the letter recommendation for Thurgood Marshall. Seems like probably
a pretty important person. Yeah, he would go on to
be the guy who filed the case that ultimately got

(38:23):
rid of the Jim Crow laws in Louisiana. No way, Yeah,
like a real heavy hitter.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
That's I mean, if you're gonna fake a recommendation, that's
the guy, right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah. Yeah, And this would kind of be a theme,
like I'm not sure, and I do want your thoughts
on this at the end, Like he's around some really
powerful lawyers. Here's another one, and I'll tell you now
how it all came crashing down. The guy who ultimately
dropped a dime on him was an attorney named Lauren Miller.
Lauren Miller would go on to a become the owner

(38:57):
of the California Eagle in nineteen fifty one, five or
six years later, but also Lauren Miller drafted most of
the briefs for Brown versus Board of Education in nineteen
fifty four. You're kidding, He just like stumbles into the
most important lawyers of the twentieth century.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, Unfortunately, it seems like Edward's path crossed Miller's at
an inopportune time, and Miller placed this anonymous tip with
the California Bar. We'll go back to the La Tribunes
editor in chief Elmina Davis to explain it. She says, quote,
he knew Charles was a poser and didn't believe his
eyes when he saw mention of him as a lawyer.
He asked the state bar to investigate. That gave the

(39:37):
gleeful press. Yours truly included a field day. So that's interesting, right,
Like he knew him before he was a lawyer, even
though there pass crossed his lawyer, and he knew that
he was like a comment.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, he knows, he's totally full of it.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, So the bar follows up. They then raid his
home and they find his old police file. They find
all these photos with celebs, all these membership cards, the
FORGI letters, the whole nine.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Edwards is charged with three counts of stealing public records,
one count of forgery, one count of burglary from when
he stole the police record. Yeah, and then and also
federal charges are cooking at the time. Now. The first
thing he does is deny everything. Quote, this is all
a nefarious political plot on the part of prominent Republicans.
He assured newsmen, they haven't got a thing on me.

(40:24):
All this trouble will pass right away right after the election.
I think this is actually around the time when that
photo that I found on eBay was taken. Yeah, Because
he's like, he's writing letters, he's getting interviews. He would
say a bunch of things that ultimately didn't hold up.
Like he said he got an honorary PhD in law
from the American Law Institute at Chicago for his work
in the youth field, doesn't really work that way.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
It's an honorary. I mean they hand that stuff out
just famous. Yeah, yeah, quote.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
I also wrote a book, he remarked. It was How
to Not Become a Delinquent. It was distributed through the
organizations I worked with and had a circulation of thirty
two thousand.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Thirty two thousand. Okay, first of all, no, second of all,
I'm desperate to read this book.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
I looked really hard. I could not find it.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
The kids, the kids on the street were like, how
can I get it my hands on a copy of
How Not to Be a Delinquent? Because that's the way
to reach delinquents.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Will you honor me with a Steve Harvey okay player
on this one, like your brother as.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Steve Harvey, that is okay player.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
He also said, and this is an interesting point. He's like, look,
I always did things in my real name, and I
didn't do anything for personal gain, which we found right. Yeah,
And he says like I was only trying to help
the world. I was trying to go for racial harmony
and world peace. But he also lawyers up. He's to
be represented by Crispus Wright, who's like the third very
prominent black attorney of the time. Like, if you look

(41:47):
him up, he's like, he also did a lot of
incredible things. Yeah, but there are a lot of questions
swirling in the press, and most people are thinking this
guy has to be mentally ill, like there has to
be something wrong upstairs. On November tewonnineteen forty six, the
DA floats the idea that they would reduce his bail
or release him on recognizance if he would just agree
to be committed. This is not cool with him, though,

(42:08):
no deal. He's like, no, I'm I'm a sound mind
and body. Yeah, I've not done anything wrong.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
So now on November eighth, he faces the chargers in court.
In the preliminary hearing, the DA calls the lawyer who
had hired him for the equivalent of that very light
paralegal work. The guy says, hey, I still like Edwards.
He seemed embarrassed that he had hired him and was
vague about what he hired him to do. But he
says Edward had shown him a membership card to the
state bar, and that lawyer equipped quote that made me

(42:35):
think he was a better man than I am. Since
I have not been, nor has any negro ever been
admitted to any bar association in the state of California.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Oh really, yeah. Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
So I guess it must have been like they thought
they were handing this out to a white attorney.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
They asked him on the stands like, so, why why
couldn't you tell that this kid obviously didn't have the
experience he said he had, and then he kind of
didn't seem to be all there and he had zero explanation.
I think he was just like, I don't know. Yeah,
So it seems likely that a whole lot of people,
rather than being fooled by him, they just felt bad
for him. Yeah yeah, and maybe they didn't as much

(43:13):
fall for as cons as they wanted to, you know,
as we were saying earlier, they wanted to give him
a hand because he obviously needed help.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
He's a shat kid and he's harmless, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
It's like, yeah, like he doesn't seem like he wants
to help people. Yeah, but also, clearly an entire system
has egg on its face right now, right.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
That may have something to do with how hard they're
going after him too. They're like, oh my gosh, like
you exposed the California state bar oh yeah, and the
federal bar to being easily manipulated by literally anyone off
the street.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
But in the middle of all this mess, also the
two black owned papers are feuding with each other.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Oh, I love a good paper feud.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah. So first on November two, I'll mean a Davis
from the Tribune comes out swinging about the role that
the Eagles or played in Edwards's life and his crimes.
She writes, quote, the dilemma Charles Joseph Edwards finds himself
in today is no shock to the Negro leadership. That
leadership knew practically all there is to know about Charles,
except perhaps that his second given name is Joseph. Don't

(44:15):
let anyone tell you otherwise. Missus Charlatta, miss Charlotta A
bass much publicized this week as one of Edward's sponsors
told the truth in her formal statement to her paper Thursday,
in which she scored a jump on the alienas appointed
by the authorities to examine Edwards and declared him mentally sick,
inferring that she knew it all along and had merely
tried to help him as she has so many other youngsters.

(44:37):
That help, I might point out, consisted of aiding and
abetting Edward's countless masquerades as a youth leader by permitting
him to write a column in her newspaper, by publishing
Edward's own and illiterately styled press releases on his activities,
in which his favorite identification of himself was quote, Hollywood producer.
Until I came to know the guy, I really believed
he had been associated with Cecil B. De Mille in

(44:59):
the production King of Kings. Can you imagine, like that's
coming in hot, that's.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Coming in super But you know what I've learned from
Zarin is that if you know, I'll say, oh, I
talked to this person, they said they were a Hollywood producer,
and that just gets an eye roll like that means nothing.
It means absolutely nothing. So now I need to start
introducing myself as a Hollywood producer.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
We should all do this, Yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (45:22):
So?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Then on November fourteenth, the California Eagle fires back. Miss
bass is out here claiming that other papers are using
this case just to smear them. Oh so, and I
quote some of the daily papers taking their orders from
the coalition of Republicans and Fascists, which sought to defeat
Helen Douglas at any cost and aided no doubt by

(45:43):
certain East Side newspaper racketeers. I don't know if that's
the Tribune or not utilize the Charles Edwards case. In
a frantic attempt to discredit The Eagle and its editor,
they got hold of some photographs that have been removed
from the editor's office without her knowledge. They doctored those
photographs to suit their unholy purpose, used them in an
injury attack on The Eagle, the only newspaper in the
Negro community that supported Missus Douglas on her record without

(46:05):
attacking her opponent, Frederick M. Roberts. Now hard to reckon, right, Yeah.
She goes on to say another paper also called Edward's
mother and told her that the Eagle had been using him. Oh,
and this is all about preventing Helen Douglas from getting elected.
Oh wow, what do you make of this? I mean,
newspapers have always been a dirty business, Like could it be?

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I don't know, honestly, I calling his mom.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
This amazing like this. The thing is, I think this
illustrates how hard it is to go back in time
and read of the time like, yeah, Helen Douglas, like
the Helen Douglas, which you know, I guess we should
know about was must have been a pretty big race
and pretty important.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
And you have to keep in mind too that it's
a much smaller Los Angeles than today, so you know,
there's a lot of gossip or local talking. You want,
do I see this with like old San Francisco papers
that when it was a small they make these references
that don't make any sense to us. But I'm starting
to realize it's like town talk that like wink wink,

(47:07):
and everyone's going to know what it means, except for
you jump forward one hundred years and you're like, I
have no idea what they're talking about.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
And also the references to old stories or old reporting
that they anticipate that you've read every word of every
paper for the last few years and so you'll understand
these references.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
And so yeah, I mean, I'll tell you I did
my absolute best, like I read every scrap on this thing. Yeah,
And I still I'm just staring at this, like you're like,
I'm I'm I tend to believe the Tribune, I mean
to Davis, because the articles are real, Like they did
publish all of these Charles Edwards columns and articles and
like and they're crazy. Like you read them, they don't make.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Any sense right, right.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
And like you look at the photos which we'll put
on Instagram, and like I don't think they're composite or anything,
like they look like legit photos.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, but again, like you just go you go to
a restaurant where all the celebrities are known to hang
out outside of studio at the time, and you could
get pictures easily.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, pictures a spider man if you wanted, right at
any rate. On November twenty fifth, he's now seen what
they have on him, and he sees that these charges
aren't just going away, and he changes his tune. He
pleads not guilty by reason of insanity, which seems like
his best bet at this point to be honest. He
goes back to jail. The state assigned some doctors to

(48:27):
see what's what. Two days later, he withdraws his plea
if not guilty by reason of insanity, and the judge
hikes up his bond from twenty five hundred dollars to
ten thousand dollars. As the Deputy DA says, like, oh,
they're gonna you know, what's it called, Like they're going
to supersede your indictment. There's going to be some more
charges on the way.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
And also Edwards throws his attorney under the bus the
famous Christmas right. Edward says, oh, it was his idea
to plead insanity and I'm perfectly sane. It was just
he's putting words in my mouth.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
So now on December fifth, his defense counsel with draws,
basically saying he's having a hard time representing Edward's best interests.
Edwards tells the court he plans to represent himself, and you're.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Like, no, doud it.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
But then he hires a new attorney, a guy named
Walter Gordon. Look him up. The papers are actually starting
to get bored. They're using headlines like quote and this
is an actual headline. This could go on forever, semi
colon new twist in Edward's epic. They're like, oh, this
guy isn't so cool anymore, Like we've run out of
cool photos to put up.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
So now it's January eighth of nineteen forty seven. The
medical reports come back. He's found sane. They know that
he's not mentally unstable, he's just quote a pathological liar. Well,
I mean and there's more like he was saying, Oh,
I've got this, I've got this lump in my head
and it's a tumor. And they looked at that and
they're like, it's actually just a calcium deposit and it's
nowhere near like any parts of your brain that would matter,

(49:55):
so it's inert and oh wow, fine, And yeah, like
we were probably about to say, like who knows at
the time, like how they were evaluating people and yeah,
what criteria they were using. I mean you just don't know.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that to be a
pathological liar is a mental instability. Yeah, I've known a
pathological liar. Like they could not stop lying about the
dumbest stuff and it was just like and so obvious,
like it was really crazy, and everyone around him would

(50:27):
just be like blown away by these absolute preposterous lies.
And the guy was not stupid, he's a smart guy,
and it was just like he couldn't help himself. It
was it was, you.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Know, almost Tourette's stuff just jumped out of your mouth.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Oh yeah, where it's like, you know, oh, I'm a
I was like a karate like dojo master, and I
also you know happened to be like an Air Force pilot,
like a famous fighter pilot. And they they took me
at the Air Force because I drove up to the
gates in Colorado and was like, I'm your man, and
they said come on here. It's like wow, yeah, yeah,
that did not happen, and my man, And.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And the word pathology is right in there exactly, it's
a condition. And also like you have to consider if
the DA wanted him to have a regular case, he
probably could have gone to the doctors and been like, hey,
you got to find this.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Guy saying yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
So on January seventeenth, he sees this coming. He pleads guilty,
and he asks for probation. His new attorney basically makes
a plea for mercy and says, look, this guy hasn't
harmed anyone, He hasn't tried to make any money, and
he did a lot of good through the various youth groups,
Like he actually did some things.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Yeah yeah, But.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Edwards is still working the papers, he's still giving good
SoundBite till the end. The press gets the following tidbit
from him on the court steps. Quote, you know, he said,
I have an idea that I could be an awful
big man in the radio broadcasting business. But he added thoughtfully,
I have an idea that any radio broadcast I put
on in the future will probably be from San Quentin.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Well, they do have a radio station, and the do
they back the up? Well I don't know about that. No,
I don't think back then. But now under the the
you know, the California model, they've got all sorts of stuff.
They've got the podcast they have where ear Hustle was,
and they've got a really great newspaper San Quentin.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
And they have like a real serious rehabilitation program m m.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
They have their own college. A lot going on.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
What's the name of that pod? I want to plug
politick in.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Oh Politiican. Yeah. I was actually like I was going
to talk to you about that later, but yeah, politick
In a great podcast. But they did a two parter
in San Quentin. It's uh, Gavin Newsom and Marshawn Lynch,
which is like they were like, Elizabeth, what's your dream podcast?
Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch and then the sports agent whose

(52:44):
name I always forget but anyway something.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah, but yeah, it's super super funny and like there's
there's a lot, and it's a it's a sister podcast
of ours.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, it's an iHeart podcast. Yeah, but it's interesting. You
can learn a lot about san Quentin from those two episodes.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
So finally, yeah, back into the heart of this thing.
February twenty. First, he's sentenced to five to fourteen years
in San Quentin, with the possibility of parole. The Feds
agree to drop their charges in exchange for the guilty
plea on the state charges and not having to go
through a whole rigamarole in court. But Edward's story is

(53:20):
not quite over. He manages to get released from San
Quentin in April of nineteen fifty three, so like pretty
close to the low end of his sentence, like five
or six years in Yeah, Almina Davis says he had
a cerebral hemorrhage and he was sent home to die
with his mother. How did she get the scoop? Well,
it turns out Edwards popped on over to the La
Tribune offices again. He had come there before to see

(53:42):
Almena Davis. As soon as he gets out of the
Gray Bar hotel.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Wait, well, he's recovering from the.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, apparently, I guess her write up is absolutely fascinating.
And for anyone who's interested in this, like, I want
to send you pdf because these these paper stories are
beautiful and amazing.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So you can post the PDFs to the website.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, and you can get us, you know,
get a membership to newspapers dot com.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
And oh, one hundred percent recommend it's the best.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
So and I quote the other day, a rickety car
halted in its tracks outside the Tribune window was backed
up erradically, and outsteps Charles to come and say hello.
He's back from death's door, said Charles, and still in
the exceptional category, for he'd had a recovery, which is
about one in one thousand from the crippling, usually fatal

(54:33):
effects of cerebral paralysis. The beautiful part of all this
is Charles doesn't have to go back to san Quentin
until next time. The parole that gave him to die
on is good for living on too. Somehow or other,
we have an idea that Charles's usual winsomeness prevailed upon
even the granite walls of San Quentin until his conviction.

(54:54):
He had an ironclad reputation for being able to talk
his way out of anything san Quentin he might have
seemed like any man's waterloo, but we'll bet it didn't
phase Charles.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Oh wow, we talked his way out of San Quentina.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
That's incredible good for what he had to have been,
like the total typical con man of just being so
you know, magnetic and able to kind of charm anybody.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yeah, and like you know, I do wonder like if
he if he had like a side of him that
was very vulnerable in addition to being the site, because
he had this like he seemed needy and people wanted
to help him out.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
So yeah, like that probably would play pretty well in
front of a parole board.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well, and he's not coming to people with his hand
out asking for money. He's coming to people saying, help
me help other people.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the last mention I could find
of Charles Edwards Junior was over a year after he
got out of San quentin in nineteen fifty four. He's
been arrested for petty theft at a food market and
they said at the corner of Santa Barbara and Western.
I wonder if they mean Santa Monica in Western, Yeah,
which is now a Chick fil A and Taco Bell.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
He hit the Chick fil A.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yeah, And at this point he's giving his occupation as
a painter props to Zaren. He's now like I think
now he's he would be my man to Zarin. He's
probably my man to me at this point. Okay, but
this is it's kind of a sad and ignominious way
to go out. I mean, give the guy a ding
dang break. He's stealing. He's stealing two bags of groceries
from a grocery store and he says, like, I don't

(56:31):
remember the exact quote, but he says something to the
paper like, hey, I haven't left the grocery store. He
had put them aside by the checkout and I was
somewhere near the exit, and he's like, don't you have
to wait to arrest me till I leave the store.
I was going to pay for these, so you know,
who knows what's going on. I couldn't confirm any other
mentions of Charles and the papers after that, but I
do think I found his grave site. If my research

(56:54):
is correct, he's buried along with his mom in the
same grave, and they may have died at the same
time because there was only one death date on it. Okay,
the date on the grave is June tenth, nineteen seventy six. Wow,
so that would make him what like sixties fifty.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And they're buried actually in a very historical cemetery in
La the Angelus Rosedale Cemetery. Do you know this one?

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Not familiar?

Speaker 2 (57:19):
It's the first cemetery to allow people of all races
and creeds, and so lots of famous Angelinos are there.
Oh cool, and any rude dude, if you live near
there or if you like that cemetery, I would love
it if you would go just check out his grave
and pay your respects. Yeah, what is your ridiculous takeaway? Elizabeth?

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Want so you're so polite, unlike Zaren who never asks me.
I think my ridiculous takeaway is again that if you're
not asking directly for money, but if you're just asking
for help to help, you're more likely to be able
to get away with stuff. You know, the people's hackles
aren't up, they're not you know, suspicious. But also the

(57:58):
other thing is that I thought when you're talking about
all the attorneys that you know that I think is
a profession that over the years, and it's I feel
like it's a rapid decline of late that there used
to be like a real emphasis on the integrity of
things and and like, you know, the honor of it.
And we see that where it doesn't seem to matter

(58:20):
across the board, not even just in the legal profession.
But I'm always disappointed that people don't hold integrity in
as high esteem as they used to. That the selfishness
of it, and if it's better to get one over
on anyone than doing the right thing. And so I
like the old stories where they're like, this is a
big serious offense. You know that you like the integrity. So, Dave,

(58:43):
what's your ridiculous takeaway?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Oh my gosh, music to my ears? You know, I
was thinking about a couple of things. One, he definitely
falls into the act, like you know, oh yeah, he
was the king of that. It seems like yeah. For Two,
I really I vacillate between the extremes, and I think
I've already alluded to it of like was he super
charming or was he super charming and also super needy?

(59:07):
And like what distinguished him from other con men that
we've seen is that at a certain point people actually
really did feel bad for him and decide to help
him out of like a sense of charity. Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard to know. And like the third point I
want to make is that I started to develop a
feeling that maybe, especially since he was around so many

(59:29):
respected and upstanding attorneys and they were all doing favors
for him, and you know the paper too, that like
maybe there's something to the fact that this entire community
was kind of trying to do what they can to
rain him in and like give him something, give him
a direction, but try to not get him into like
a place where he could do to much trouble.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, and then it just.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Broke contain, you know, like it just is like, oh gosh, yeah,
so yeah, I don't know, fascinating, Like I think I
will continue to read about this, and I wish there
has been like a book or a movie, because yeah,
it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
It's a fascinating time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Hey, Elizabeth, can I fix you a talk wrap in Tona?

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I would love one? Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
All right, let's see what we got here? Oh oh god,
I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Hey, Aaron, want to know how Elizabeth's ruined my friend's lives?
Close your eyes. You and I best buds walking down
the street in Miami when you spot a sexy Latin
girl walking right by Nice and Curvey built from the
ground up, says Rubberbane on the side, and You're like,
oooh my Macita, hey rich, look at the hot girl
with the curves. And I'm like, yeah, baby, look at

(01:00:44):
the curves on that Adam's apple. I want to lick
that Adam's apple.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Hubbubbu Wait, what happened? What just happened?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I may freeze time again and go back and actually
sound illustrate that picture it because that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
How did I ruin?

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
I don't even know?

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Let's just keep moving, Let's just.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Keep just keep going, just keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Well that's it for today. You can find us pretty
much on every ding dang platform as at Ridiculous Crime.
You can send us an email at ridiculous Crime at
gmail dot com, and if you download the free iHeart app,
you can hit the talkback button as you're listening to
an episode and leave us a thirty second voicemail like
that one. We may even play it on the air,
or we may not hit us up. Ridiculous Crime is

(01:01:36):
hosted by Elizabeth Duttan and Zaren Burnett and Dave Cousten,
produced and edited by Dick The Slip Dave Custin starring
Annalise Rucker as Judith. Research is by Masquerading Marauder, Marisa
Brown and Andrea The audacious song Sharpen Tear. The theme
song is by President of Youth of America Thomas Lee
and Travis Dutton, Attorney barred in mix Olidia post wardrobe

(01:01:56):
is provided by Botany five hundred guest Aaron Mickup by
Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are well publicized Superdoper,
Ben Bolin and California's Dreamy Kid.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Noel Brown, Redicus Crime, Say It One More Time, Gequus Cry.
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.
My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
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