Wibbling Rivalry Revisited: Liam Gallagher vs. Noel Gallagher

There's a long history of sibling rivalry infecting some of the biggest acts in pop and rock. But there is perhaps no greater example than the brothers Liam and Noel Gallagher of Oasis. From the time they broke out in the mid-'90s, these British bad boys have been at each other's throats. The core of their argument boils down to a simple philosophical disagreement about the value of art vs. rock 'n' roll chaos. Is Oasis all about the music or the mayhem?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,
and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and
feuds and long swimmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

(00:20):
I'm Jordan's and today we're gonna talk about the second
best brit pop band after Blur, one of the great
also ran bands of the nineties. Right away, huh, starting
with this, I mean, look, Jordan's, you know how I
feel about Oasis. This was my favorite band in high
school and they are clearly clearly one of the great
rock bands of the nineties, park Life. I'm gonna reserve

(00:42):
any smack talk for our Oasis Versus Blur episode, which
we've been putting off because it might very well rip
this show apart. So instead we're gonna go inside Oasis
and talk about Liam Gallagher versus Noel Gallagher and man,
there is a lot of material to go through here.
I'm so excited me I almost feel bad that I'm
mis gleeful about just talking about a disintegrating family, but

(01:05):
you know, I'm so excited to find the go brother
against brother, which I think is the fiercest rock feud
there is. Right Like in my ranking it's inter band
ex lovers, inter band ex lovers, and then interband family. Right, Oh, yeah,
without question. I mean it's biblical, it's pain enable. I
mean I can't even get that sad about them because

(01:26):
it just seems like this is their base state. Like
I know, you were a new Oasis probably before most
American fans were. You were like a fan back in Uh.
Were you aware of the extent of their animosity, Yeah,
I mean it was impossible not to be aware of it.
I mean it was fore grounded in the band that
Nol and Liam were always at each other's throats, and
I think that for both of them, they realized early

(01:49):
on that that was their dynamic and it was both
their biggest curse and their biggest attribute. I mean, any
of the energy that you get from Oasis and that
combustible nature of this band that for me has made
them irresistible. You know, they wouldn't be as interesting if
they were just a band that had nice brit pop

(02:10):
tunes and had hits back in the nineties. It's the
drama that that we're drawn to, and I think from
a pretty early stage, you know, the Gallagher brothers were
right up there with you. Know, the Beach Boys and
the Kinks and the Black Crows, all of the famous
battling brothers. I think we're going to see though, that
sets these brothers apart. And what makes this rivalry so

(02:30):
much fun to talk about is that they're both uniquely
gifted at saying absolutely horrible and hilarious things about each other.
You know, It's not like one guy's funny and the
other one just takes it. They're both hilarious and great
at insulting each other. Um and at the same time, though,
I think that they had a great partnership in much
the same way. You know, we talked about Roger Waters

(02:51):
and David Gilmour and Pink Floyd completing each other. I
think that's also very much true of of Noel and Liam,
and when they're apart, you can really see that. Come
to the four so uh yeah, I mean, look, I'm
in heaven talking about this. This is gonna be like
a four hour episode, so strap in. I mean, it
won't be four hours, but I mean I wish it

(03:12):
could be four hours. But we're gonna get through a
lot of stuff here. So without further ado, let's get
into this mess. No Gallagher once said, I liked my
mom until she gave birth to Liam. We're gonna open
with that. How can you not love these guys? How
can you not love these guys like Don Rickles level,

(03:33):
like the glorious. I mean that that just was savor
every single one of these I can't wait. I mean,
by all accounts, right, their feuding has been just like
a permanent part of the relationship, dating back to their
childhood in nineties Manchester. Uh. Their mother, Peggy described the
rivalry in the Incredible Ways to documentary Supersonic. She said,
I think there's a bit of jealous date with Liam

(03:54):
and Noel. Noel was beautiful as a baby, and then
Liam comes along. It takes the limelight off you. And
that's not completely uncommon for you know, older sibling who's
you know, has a much younger one. I think liams
like five years younger something like that. It's not that
uncommon for that to happen. But usually you kind of
grow out of it, but they just don't, and you

(04:17):
know that the real sort of spark of the animosity
has sort of lost the time. But there's a great
anecdote from Supersonic. Liam comes home drunk one night and uh,
he's trying to get into the bedroom and he shares
with with Noel, and he's feeling around for the light switch.
He can't find it and he really has to pee,
and so he you know what, I'm not gonna deal

(04:38):
with the light switch anymore. And he just unzips his
pants and peas wherever he's standing and it just happens
to be right on Knowle's new sound system. But if
I was gonna make like like a bio movie of
these two, I think that's the opening scene right there.
I mean, you've got Liam's mayhem and Knowles like literally
pissing on Knole's music. Yeah, there's a documentary about Liam

(05:01):
Gallagher As You Were where he talks about this incident
and he says, yeah, there used to be a toilet there,
that's why. So it wasn't like he was intentionally pissing
on his stereo. But it is fair to say that
I think early on, like when they were kids, that
Noel was much more into music. Like he's described himself
as being this introverted stoner who didn't really like being

(05:22):
around people, Like he just wanted to hang on his room,
you know, get baked. Listen to records and play guitar,
and that was his world for a really long time,
whereas Liam was the tough guy at school, like he'd
always get into fights. It seems like he was kind
of like a bit of a gangster at his school,
like you know, stealing stuff and like had the whole
place wired. And then there's the story that he tells

(05:43):
in Supersonic, that documentary where he's he says that he
got hit in the head with a hammer one one time,
I got a fight, and after that he started caring
about music, like that was the thing that turned him into,
you know, a lifetime rock and roller. So trauma specialists
out there like, yeah, he's getting in touch, Like I

(06:04):
really want to know how that works. Yeah. I feel
like we have to make a formal announcement here that
you should not hit Like, if you're a parent and
you want your kid to be a rock singer, don't
hit them in the head with a hammer. You know.
I do not feel like this is a documented way
to turn you know, troubled kids into two rock singers.

(06:24):
I think this is specific to Liam Gallagher. Um, but
you have come value to this episode. Good. I mean,
you said something interesting earlier that we're talking about how
it's common in a family where you know, you have
a you have some kids that are getting attention from
the mom, and then another kid comes along and they
become the baby of the family and they get a
lot of the attention, and you know, normally you get

(06:46):
over that as all the kids get older. But it
seems like that in a way formed their dynamic early on,
that Noel was going to be the older, maybe more
reasonable one, and Liam was going to be acting out,
but he's like the cute one. And and people, I
love the fact that in a way that this kid
can get away with murder, you know, because it's just
something about him that makes you want to indulge him.

(07:09):
And um, I mean, Noel never got over that because
in a way, that became his life, Like that became
the operating system of Oasis. Um, and it really made
that band work. And we're gonna, you know, talk about
this in the episode, but I feel like what Noel
brought to Oasis, I think at some point he began
to feel like that was the important part of the

(07:30):
band and without him, the band wouldn't have existed, which
I think is true. But the very sort of self
destructive nature of Liam Gallagher is the spirit of Oasis
and like he in a I think, in a very
real way, was the person that Noel was writing about.
Like when he wrote all those great rock songs, he
wasn't writing about himself. He was writing about someone like

(07:51):
Liam Gallagher, and he needed someone to embody the spirit
of the songs that he was writing. And Uh, as
much as he grew to hate Liam, I think he
also needed him as a muse. So I don't know,
a very fascinating thing. It's important note too that I
mean the band started off as Liam's band, which is

(08:11):
not what you would expect. You think that the person
who was the chief songwriter would have sort of everything
would have chalessed around them. But Liam, I just wanted
to be in a band, and he didn't have any
real music ability to speak of. I don't even think
no one even knew that he could sing. I think
he was out on because he was a roadie for
was it Inspiral Carpets? Yeah, he was. He's on the
road and he's talked about how that was his ambition,

(08:32):
Like he had no real drive to be a rock
star himself. That he liked being a roadie and he
could just hang out with the band and he could
be stoned all the time and it was great. But yeah,
he was eventually fired from that band. And like you said,
Liam had this group. They were called The Rain, which
is a terrible nail, but they were called the Rain,
and it was all the guys in Oasis. Bone Head

(08:52):
was in that band, Wiggs, he was in the band.
They were all in that band, and um, you know,
Liam recognized that he wasn't a songwriter. Uh and I
and he's talked about how like he felt like it
was his job to to look fucking cool. Like he said,
it's my job to look fucking cool, but I need
someone who can write songs. And it's really that simple,

(09:15):
Like this dynamic that like would exist and eventually teared
Oasis apart. It is interesting too to look at that
and realize that in a way, at least in the beginning,
that like Liam was like the general of Oasis and
he's the one who brought an all in and of
course No ended up taking over um as the band
became really successful. But yeah, like he was the one

(09:36):
in charge, and I think in a way he kind
of defined the chaos that was around Oasis, which was
really defined early on, like when they came to America.
Like I don't know if you've heard this story, like
because you know always this. They start putting out singles
in uh in England in like ninety four. I think
the first single was Supersonic that ended up being really big,

(09:58):
and they just and they just start putting out the
series of classic singles in Britain and then they come
to America and they play this show I think it's
It's at the Whiskey a Go Go. Yeah, Like they're
basically snorting crystal meth like for days, well they think
it's cocaine and which is a real which is a
ricky l a mistake really, like always check what the

(10:21):
powder is before you do multiple lines of it. So yeah,
they've been up for days before because they couldn't sleep
because they've done lines and lines and lines of crystal meth,
and so has the crew. Like just their entire touring
party is just a mess. And they get up there
for their big sort of coming out l a performance
and like they're terrible. The roadies like put the wrong

(10:41):
set lists, so some of the band have like different
set lists than the rest. They're playing different songs in
each other. It's it's awful. Yeah, And like there's a
video of this in that documentary Supersonic and they start
playing rock and Roll Star and yeah, it sounds like
parts of the band are playing a different song then
what the song is supposed to be. And then they

(11:02):
actually played again. It sounds even worse the second time.
And and it's funny because yeah, like you said, like
they thought they were doing cocaine, but then at some
point they must have realized that it was crystal meth.
I mean, I feel like by the second or third day,
it's kind of you know, because you know, I don't
think that. I mean, cocaine is a strong drug, but
it's not as strong as crystal meth. I feel like you,

(11:22):
I feel like you'd probably figure that out, Like the
first or second time you snorted it, it's like, oh wait,
this is something different. But then like by the time
of the show, like you can see in the video,
like Liam is going behind like the amps and snorting
crystal meth off the amps on stage. Uh, look at
his eyes. He's on Jupiter, like he's looking at he

(11:44):
like because he always does the thing where like clasp
his hand behind his back and like stares out and
stares down the mic. But he's got this like really terrifying.
He looks awful. He looks it's a very like breaking
bad type, like like Jesse Pinkman in the house, like
with the orgy going on for a week, Like he
has a Jesse Pinkman type look at that show, and like,

(12:04):
you know, Noel Gallagher ended up basically like leaving town.
The next day. He was like, you know, screw this,
I'm leaving this band. I think he went to San
Francisco and hung out with like a woman that they
met on tour for a while and they didn't know
where he was, but eventually they reconnected and he wrote
the song talk Tonight about that whole period, and that's

(12:24):
one of the great Oasis B sides of course of
all time. Um and an example of like no writing
a tender ballad and keeping it for himself and not
giving it to to Liam, which is going to be
I think another issue in Oasis as the years go on,
him sort of hoarding the more sensitive songs, you know,
because he feels like there may be more of an
expression of who he is. But you know again, like

(12:46):
for me as a young Oasis fan, you know, I
was reading about this stuff when I was getting into
the band, and it was a huge part of the
appeal because I think at the time you got to
remember that, like Oasis came about, it was about five
six months after Kirt Cobain died, and there had been

(13:07):
this period of a couple of years like where you
had all these grunge bands that were very anti rock stardom,
very sensitive progressive type bands, which was great, but I
think at that time, like I wanted a band like Oasis.
I wanted the band that was arrogant and kind of
dumb and decadent and embody like all these ideas about

(13:32):
rock and roll that were really interesting to me at
the time because you know, like even like Guns and
Roses like they were petering out at this point. You know,
like there was like a real kind of gap for
a band like this. So you know, as great as
the songs were, like that chaotic element of Oasis, you
can't undersell that as far as like their appeal, I

(13:53):
think then and now, and they were into playing that role.
I mean, they were so obviously students of like rock
and old I mean, they dressed just like the Beatles,
and I always think of that scene and almost famous
when the band's fighting, you're like, no, no, no, I'm
the front man, you're the guitarist with mystique. Like they
knew the roles that they were set out to play
and and so they they and they just both embraced them.

(14:14):
I feel like it's one of the more self aware
of bands, like they knew and you see it in
interviews too. It's like, we are the best band on
the planet, and you want that from your rock star,
Like you don't want the reclusive like no no no,
like no no photos pleased, like you want Liam out front,
chest puffed out. It is interesting though that I feel
like I think Nol played up the arrogant part, although

(14:36):
I think he came to resent the decadent, chaotic part.
I think, especially in retrospect when he talks about that time,
but also even in the moment, he was more of
a music first type person, and I think he wanted
to be taken seriously in that regard where Liam has
said repeatedly that for him, Oasis was never about the
music or just about the music. He said, if if,

(14:59):
if we had just you know, good tunes. We would
have been a boring band. You know, it's like you
need both and uh, you know, and I think that
was another cause of tension for them as the years
went on. And absolutely and this is really becomes public
on one of my favorite pieces of Oasis lawre ever

(15:19):
a a tape called Wibbling Rivalry? Are you familiar with this?
Am I familiar with this? Who are you kidding? I
guess so? Of course it's the Gallaghers are giving this
now famous interview with John Harris of Enemy, and it
consists of just the brothers entirely just sniping at one another,
but just obscenity laden insults for for something like you know,

(15:42):
half hour fourteen minutes of this was so funny that
it actually leaked and uh was printed on a like
a bootleg label and it was released and it actually
made it to number fifty two in the British charts,
which is the highest and interview clip has ever charted,
which again it just served to be like that is
how great their interviews were, Like how many so many

(16:05):
musician interviews and like you and I have done a
lot of them, they're boring. They don't have anything to say.
And it's like these guys like from the beginning were
like masterful insult comics, you know, and their main topic
was each other. You know. It's like it was beautiful.
It's I mean, if you're a fan of the trog tapes,
so the Buddy Rich tapes, like this just blows that

(16:27):
out of the water. It is so funny, but it
actually is really telling because it lays bare their different
approaches to to fame in the band. I mean, Liam
kind of sets himself up as, like you said, like
the King of Mayhem, like like the the heir to
Keith Moon in a way, and Knowles sort of this
voice of reason that Liam always just kind of makes
him sound really boring. Uh. And they start talking about

(16:49):
a time when they were going on tour to Europe.
They were taking a ferry from England to to Amsterdam
and there are a bunch of soccer pooligans on board,
and uh, a fight breaks out and Liam sort of
gleefully joins in I think that Uh. I think Noel
described him as looking like he was running through a
school playground chasing leaves, which I think it's funny because

(17:12):
they talk about this incident in the documentary, but they
don't mention whibbling rivalry. I think lips from it, but
they don't rention that. Yeah, like they talk about like,
how yeah, because they were going to Amsterdam to open
I think they were opening up for somebody, Yeah exactly,
and like they just got super loaded on the way
there and I don't think they even made the show

(17:33):
because they ended up getting they got deported. Yeah, they
got deported before they even got there. But yeah, yeah,
they're talking about this very incident and they had, like
Noel is because they're arguing about basically about whether it
was good that they got thrown off this ferry. Like
Liam thinks it's great and Noel, I think it's kind
of embarrassed by it. Oh yeah. He says the famous line,

(17:54):
you think it's rock and roll will get thrown off
a ferry and it's not, which I just love that,
and he goes, if you're proud about getting thrown off ferries,
then get the funk out of my band and be
a football hoo again. Okay, Like we're musicians, we're not
football hooligans. And Liam says, you're only gutted because you
was in fucking bed reading your fucking books. I gotta say, man, like,

(18:21):
I have to disagree with Noel as much as I
revere him as a rocker and as a songwriter, it
is rock and roll to get thrown off a ferry though,
I mean, come on, roll, it's the faery element to me,
So they got a fair if it were a boat,
if it were a yacht, if it were. But something
about it being a fairy just kind of like a
little less rock and roll to me. Well, it's a

(18:42):
ferry on the way to Amster. Yeah, so I think
when you when you factor in the Amsterdam aspect, then
if it's like rock and roll, right, I got ferry
to Amsterdam filled with soccer hooligans. You were right, You're
absolutely right. I I walked that back, but yeah, I
mean like Nol talked about this, you know, years later.
I think he did an interview with Chuck Closeter, mean

(19:03):
where he said, you know what, we've just been saying that,
Like he said, you know, we've always had a different
view of the band. I thought the most important part
was the songs, and he thought the most important part
was the chaos. I will which I think is true,
but I will say in defense of like Liam as
a musician that and I think this comes across in
that documentary that like Liam, I think had a really

(19:25):
intuitive grasp of Noel's songwriting voice, and that he could
like hear those songs once and like Nail, his vocal
takes like pretty quickly. I think he would usually get
them done, like and I take her two after, you know, again,
just hearing a song maybe like once or twice. And
you know, the thing about Noel as a songwriter, and

(19:46):
I love Noel's songs and especially on you know, those
early records. To me, they're like some of the best songs,
some of the best rock songs about rock and roll
that have ever been written. But the thing about his
his lyrics is that, like they're mostly garbage, like and
he has said this himself that he's not a lyricist.

(20:06):
He doesn't really care about you know, where his what
his words mean. They're they're essentially just place holders. But
his talent as a songwriter is to hit upon like
a key phrase and make that phrase so memorable that
it negates the other lyrics and it and the whole
song just kind of becomes about that one phrase. So like,

(20:27):
for instance, you know, like the song Supersonic you can
have it all, but how much do you want it?
That's a great line. If you look at the rest
of the lines of that song, they make no sense
at all, you know. Or you you look at the
song wonder Wall, you know, the most famous a waste
a song there is, and like maybe You're going to
be the one that saves me again a great sort

(20:48):
of over the top rock and roll sentiment. The other
lines in that song make no sense whatsoever. I think
for that kind of songwriting to work, you need a
singer who can sell it and make the lyrics that
don't make any sense fit like they're a part of
the whole. And I think like Liam's ability to interpret

(21:09):
Noel's songs is the magic of Oasis. You know, Noel
had to write those songs, but like if Liam wasn't
singing them, they would not have gone over nearly as well.
And I think, you know, I was saying earlier about
how Noel has this tendency to hoard his ballads. You

(21:29):
know we mentioned talk Tonight. Obviously Don't Look Back in
Anger is going to be a big Oasis song that
Noel took for himself. I'll say that like I really
like it when Liam sings Noel's ballads. I think there's
a reason why you know as great as Don't Look
Back in Anger as there's a reason why wonder wall
Is is the defining song of that era. And also

(21:50):
like Champion Supernova. I'd say like Slideaway is another example,
like from the first record, the idea of this sort
of like punk kid singing a more sensitive song and
maybe showing a softer side of himself. It's such a
powerful thing, and in a way, I think it's more
of a true Oasis sentiment than like the more sensitive

(22:13):
guy singing the more sensitive songs, like having the like
the Loud, the drunken Loud show you a moment of vulnerability.
It's such a powerful thing and it draws you in.
And I think that is the Oasis dynamic right there,
and it's what made that band so great. I guess
what I love about some of Rod Stewart's songs due
to be honest with you, when he has like some

(22:35):
of the more like when he's doing like the Tim
Harden song and you wear it right, Yeah, it's a
it's a similar sentiment, like he's on stage doing stuff
with the faces and then the quiet acoustic stuff. Yeah,
I never thought of it like that. And you know,
like the swaggering guy who's like the fun time party guy,
but then he's gonna take a moment and maybe he's drunk,
you know, maybe he's wasted and that's why he's sensitive now.
But like he's gonna tell you that, like maybe you're

(22:56):
gonna be the one that saves me. You know, it's like,
whoa this guy is saying that like it. I think
there's that's what made that song such an anthem, you know,
it's it was the combination of the song and also
Liam's ability to project it out and to turn it
into something other than what it would have been just
done the page. You know. Obviously, Don't Look Back in

(23:18):
Anger is an amazing song too, and I'm glad Noel
sings that. He sings the hell out of that song.
There's a part of me though, that kind of which
is Liam would have sung that. I'd be curious to
hear what that would have come off like. But it's
interesting because during sessions for for wonder Wall, he uh,
he was basically he was living the drunken loud part

(23:39):
to the hill. There's a famous story doing sessions for
what's the story Morning Glory. Noel was supremely annoyed when
Liam went down to the pub and brought like twenty
strangers back to the studio when he was trying, like
painstakingly figuring out his guitar parts. Noel's just like, all right,
get the hell of the studio, please leave. Uh And
then Noel goes to bed, only to be woken up

(24:01):
by an absolutely irate and supremely trashed Liam banging on
his door. Uh. No wards him off with a cricket bat.
I think he hits him over the head with it, right,
Oh yeah, of course. I mean it's like, you know,
if you have a cricket bat in the vicinity of
Oasis in the mid nineties, it's gonna get smashed over

(24:21):
someone's head. Man. You know. It's like it's like when
you watch those old movies and there's a there's a chase,
yeah exactly, or like two guys are moving like a
plate class window across the street. It's like, well, that's
that window is gonna get smashed. You know, it's gonna
get smashed by like you know, the car chase here.
Uh yeah, And like you know, there was definitely you know,

(24:43):
this is around the time to like because definitely maybe
comes out it becomes a phenomenon, especially in England, but
it's also more of it. It's a it's more of
a hit in America than like a lot of British
bands were doing UM at that time. And of course
what story Morning Glory comes out and that ends up
really blowing up all over the world and as a
wastis gets bigger and bigger, you can see the chaos

(25:05):
in the band get more and more exaggerated. Uh, there's
that great MTV unplug special that they did. I think
that was when Liam was so drunk and belligerent that
he wouldn't go on stage UM and sing, so like
Noel had to be the least singer. And I think
he comes out and he says, you know, hey, it's

(25:25):
the ugly four you know coming up, which is a
funny thing. But again it kind of speaks to what
we were talking about earlier, that thing that goes back
to childhood, that like, oh, my younger brother is the
cute one and he gets all the attention. It's sort
of like a passive aggressive reference to that in a way,
and what's great about that special, of course, is that
like Liam, it's not like he was back in the

(25:45):
hotel room, like he was in the studio heckling the band.
So like they show him drinking, you know, points and
smoking heavily, and he's also heckling the band at the
same time. And then of course he ends up bailing
at the last second out of an upcoming US tour.
I think because he said he had to look for
a house, yeah, which is one of the more novel

(26:07):
rock and roll excuses. I have to say, Like yeah,
like the the whole the record company tried to smooth
it over, like oh yeah, Liam was called away for
like the sort out of personal matter, and he's like, I, Liam,
I don't know why he admitted the fact that he's, Oh, yeah,
I can't go. I can't go to perform for silly
fucking Yanks. I'm gonna find a house to live in, so, which,

(26:28):
you know, one of the things maybe you should have
planned for. Uh. So the tour continues with no on vocals.
Liam joins later, and it's kind of a mess that
they swing by the MTV v M as caused this
huge up war, I guess by swearing and spitting, which
you know, honestly, MTV probably should have also prepared for
uh nol cuts the tour short, I think, and just

(26:49):
as fun it I'm gonna go back to England and
at this point I think everyone thinks, so waste is is,
you know, moments away from breaking off? Yeah, but instead
they make be Here Now their third record, and you know,
this was a major event for me. I remember buying
the record. I think I bought it the day it

(27:09):
came out. I was living in my dorm at the time.
School hadn't started yet, but I had to come back
early because I worked for the school paper. So I
remember just being in my dorm room by myself, listening
to be Here Now over and over again while watching
coverage of Princess Diana's death because she died I think
right after that. So like that's my memory. My English

(27:34):
day was a very English day. And like, I don't know,
I don't know how you feel about be Here Now.
Like I loved it when it came out, and then
I kind of fell out of love with it, and
now I love it again for the reasons that I
didn't used to like it. But I guess I'm just curious,
like what you think of be Here Now. I mean
it makes like Fleetwood Mac's Tusk seemed like spartan and

(27:54):
sober and like stripped down. So I mean, all Around
the World might be the most coked out song in
English rock history. Yeah, it's so and like and that
was like an early Oasis song too, Like I think
in Supersonic You there's there's footage of them playing that

(28:15):
during a rehearsal, like maybe even before definitely maybe came out.
It was like one of the early Noel Gallagher songs.
And I think he had this idea that he wanted
to turn it into like the new Hey Jude, and
just have it go on endlessly and like pylon orchestras
and choirs and you know, small nations of children gathering

(28:38):
and holding hands singing this song, which is like a
pretty shitty song. It's like note a very good song.
Like there's there's a lot of Wassis songs that they
could have blown up like that, like do that to
whatever or something like that, like that song whatever could
have been given that kind of treatment. But yeah, I mean,
like be Here Now, it's like you said, it has
this rep for being very coked out, very excessive, you know,

(29:01):
and over the top. But that's kind of why I
love it now, because again, I can't imagine a rock
band having the kind of latitude to make a record
like that. It's like their usual illusion albums, you know,
and and just the excess is incredible. Like I mean,
this song I think is legitimately great, Like do you
know what I mean? Like the first song, I think

(29:22):
it's legitimately great song. But like that song goes on
for about seven and a half minutes, And I love
this because like they put out a radio edit of
that song and it's only like twenty seconds shorter, so
instead of being like seven forty, it's like seven twenty.
And I think all they did was take out some
of the helicopter sounds from the beginning of the song.

(29:45):
Like I think that, okay, okay, take this out and
now we're done. Um does that mean I like thirty
guitar tracks on it? Yeah, there's this song which is
like one of the weaker songs on the record, called
My Big Mouth, where yeah there's there's like thirty different
guitar tracks on it, and like you listen to it
and it's like there's really nothing interesting happening with the guitars.

(30:06):
It just sounds like a like a you know, straightforward
pub rock type, you know, snotty sex pistols type song.
But you know, like when I listened to be Here now,
I think of this story from Supersonic where uh they
were talking about how when they were making Definitely Maybe,
it took him a long time to get that record right.
I think they had to rerecord it like three times,

(30:27):
and the ultimate solution that they found when they finally
hooked up with Owen Morris, who was the producer of
those first three records, was just to make it twice
as loud, like they found some device that could make yeah, exactly,
It's like they they found a device that could make
it sound way louder, and then all of a sudden

(30:47):
they were like, yes, that's it, And I just I
just think about that would be here now because I
just think of it as like a bunch of guys
on coke who are just like, make it louder, louder,
you know, like louder is the aesthetic of that record.
So I think to appreciate that album, you have to
just go with it. You have to go with the

(31:07):
excess and try to appreciate it for what it is
or else it is a pretty obnoxious album. But yeah,
I mean, I think again that just speaks to like
how the chaos was really taking over the band at
that point, and also just continuing to drive Liam and
Noel further and further apart. All right, hey, and we'll
be right back with more rivals. It gets really bad

(31:37):
in two thousands. So at this point in Waste is
original drummer Tony mccarroll's out of the band, and they
got Alan White in and they're on tour. It's two thousand.
They're on tour in Spain and Ellen Whites injured his
arm and so the band can't play that night. And
when you're Oasis and you can't play music, you go drinking.
That's just what what you do. So they're not drinking
and uh, and Liam finally goes too far with Noel.

(31:58):
He he makes a jokes about Noel's daughter, a nace.
I think is how you say It's how you say
daughter's name. Sure, let's say it. No, No, if you're listening,
you can say something really rude about us on Twitter.
That'd be great. So so Liam questions the paternity of
Noel's daughter. I think he might have claimed paternity of
Noel's daughter because he has gone on record saying describing

(32:21):
her as quote his fucking kid. So Jesus, yeah, whatever
was it? Way overstepped the mark and they got into
a major fist fight. I think Noel split Liam's lip actually,
And so Noel left the band for you know, the
second time after the the l A incident, and the
band completed the European tour without him, And I guess

(32:41):
it's a Liam years to apologize for this, Like it
became the family stuff becomes a real sticking point, and
stuff with Noel's daughter becomes a real sticking point with
their relationship in the years to come. Yeah, and yeah,
and I feel like, yeah, yeah, what you're going up
for someone's kids. It's like, Okay, this isn't like talking
getting kicked off of fairies anymore. You know. Now we're

(33:03):
now we're bringing in civilians into the into the fold,
and yeah, that's never a good thing. Which, surprisingly, for
the rest of the two thousands, their relationship is as
harmonious as it's ever gonna get. I guess because Noel
had switched over to psychological poor man. I guess he
starts to psychologically terrorize his younger brother. He gives an
interview in Spin in two thousand five, and he says,

(33:27):
Liam's completely freaked out by me. Now he's actually frightened
to death of me. I can read him. I can
play him like a fucking slightly disused arcade game. I
can make him make decisions that he thinks are his
but they're really mine, so and say like, yeah, that's
better than any lyrics he's ever written us slightly, he
just used arcade game, Like you know, he should just

(33:48):
like do like a stenography of his interviews and incorporate
that into his lyrics, Like I think that would help
his songwriting a lot. I mean, no one he was
really getting like that. He would, I guess, move furniture
in Liam's room and try to convince him that Spirits
did it, because Liam apparently as this like serious phobia
of ghosts, Like it was that level of like petty right, Yeah,

(34:10):
I've heard that story. I mean, like Liam at this time,
I feel like he was still just he He must
have just been drunk like seven. Because it's funny because
comparing him at that time to now you can really
tell a difference. And we'll get into this later in
the episode, Like his level of clarity now is so

(34:31):
much greater, and it's like actually kind of put him
on more of an equal playing field with Noel, because
it seems like back then, like he was such an
easy target. And if you see interviews with him too,
it's like he's impossible to understand in a way that
it's not just his accent because he's like much more
coherent now, But back then, yeah, he was just like

(34:51):
a drunken, coked out maniac who was afraid of ghosts. Yeah,
if you look at like the nineties and early two
thousand's early m clips, it looks like a Sasha Baron
Cohan character, Like, you know, it just it seems like
like it can't be real, but but the fact that
it is is all the better. But like, you know,
there was a sense in the in the adds that

(35:12):
Oasis had stabilized, that they weren't on the verge of
following apart all the time. They were putting out albums
that are actually pretty respectable, like late career, like rock
veteran albums, like I actually think two thousand fives don't
believe the truth. It's like one of their better records,
Like I think there's a legitimate comeback record for them,
maybe not so much commercially, but certainly artistically, you know.

(35:36):
And then like Dig Out your Own Soul, like some
of those records, like they were doing well. There was
almost a feeling like, well maybe they kind of got
over what they you know, all that turmoil in the
nineties and they can just be a band that goes
on forever. And the thing is Dig Out Your Souls
that I guess Liam really strongly objected to the use
of keyboards on the album. It became this huge sticking point.

(35:59):
No later said, like, Liam is just a rational fear
of keyboards. So they were starting to get you know,
I think Noel describe their prior albums after be Here
Now as like, you know, all right, just just we're
a rock band doing flour on the floor, guitar based
and drums. That's it. Nothing fancy. And then Noel decided
for the Got Your Soul Too, we want to get
fancy again, so and Liam was not happy with that.

(36:21):
It's like, although like when you listen to an album,
it's like not some radical departure, like they didn't make
kid A like they got your own soul. It's it's
still like an Oasis record. But I think it just
shows like an Oasis, like their template is like fairly
narrow sonically, and you know, any deviation from that looks
like a pretty radical departure. And the only you said,

(36:42):
I think it's fair to say that Liam probably had
a lot to do with that. If you look at
Nol's solo career, he does veer a little farther away
from the straight ahead rock that you hear in Oasis.
Did Liam hate Wonderwall first? I hadn't heard that story. No,
is that true? Think Noel said in some interviews like, yeah,
this is the guy you hated wonder All at first

(37:03):
because the drums went bombed to bomb and that was
like too much for let's see. I wonder if he
was just saying that though to make Liam looks stupid,
which which isn't hard to do with Liam. Sometimes. But anyway,
this sense that like that I had anyway, maybe I
just had wishful thinking back then that always has had stabilized.
I mean, they blew up essentially in August of two

(37:24):
thou nine because They're playing this festival in Paris, and uh,
you know, Liam and Noel apparently had been having tensions
on this tour for a while. Um, there was a
fight that they had over Liam's fashion line, which, again,
this is gonna be a running theme on this show,
be really against fashion lines. I feel like when when

(37:47):
there's ever an artist who starts caring about fashion more
than music, it's always the end. Music is about getting
really bad about to get bad, you know, because it's
like I want to make boots now instead of Paisley.
I want to make cool belts instead of cool songs.
But anyway, like Liam had a fashion line and he
wanted to advertise it in the Oasis tour program and

(38:08):
Nol wanted to charge Liam advertising piece for that, which
Liam did not like. So they're arguing about that and
it all comes to a head backstage at this festival
in Paris, and like, how did this guy? I'm trying
to remember everything. I know. I know that there was
a plumb involved. I know Liam threw a plumb at

(38:32):
no I think he might have liked. And then I
think Noel smashed the guitar. I think it was Liam
storms out on his way out, he throws a plumb
at Knoll. Yes, and then Liam came back in, grabbed
a guitar and started swinging at like an axe at
Noel's face. And no, as he said later, it was

(38:54):
pretty freaked up by this is a fairly violent act.
So the guitar gets smashed. I think William is the
one who does it. Noel seeks shelter in his car.
He's in the parking lot of an Oasis gig in
his car, and he's just like, you know what, I
can't I can't do this anymore. I cannot do this anymore.
And that was yeah, exactly. It kind of ends with

(39:15):
like a plump stained whimper. You know, it's not a
spectacular you know, I mean. And Nolan has said that
like if he had maybe not talked about it publicly
right away, if he just kind of stepped away and
the band could have maybe gone up and done in

(39:36):
their own thing for a couple of years, that they
might not have broken up. It seems like, in a
way of sort of like an impulsive decision on his
part to look at this incident as like the last straw.
But then maybe once he decided that in his mind
he liked the idea that he could just be on
his own because I think, I mean, obviously this goes

(39:58):
deeper than just like an archae it's over a fashion line,
you know, and we've talked about it already in this episode.
You know, these two have always been in each other's throats.
It must have been exhausting to have that kind of
dynamic that it's not only destructive, but it was also
constructive in a way, Like they needed that tension for
Oasis to work. And there was a period where you know,

(40:23):
Liam's invitation to chaos and Noel's sort of controlling tendencies
where those buttet heads and it created a lot of
friction and it made o Waste is a very exciting band.
But like you know, you can't do that forever. And
I think there was a feeling, I think, especially in
Knowle's part, that like I can do this on my own,
Like I can make records on my own. I'm a songwriter, um,

(40:45):
and I don't need to be an Oasis and I
don't need to deal with Liam's ships even simpler, Like
I can only imagine what being in close confines with
him from that era must have been, Like I mean, yeah,
I mean, whatever the straw was, it may have been
a minor thing. Like yeah, it's hard not to blame him. Yeah,

(41:06):
I mean I think Liam too was feeling at that
time that he was also a songwriter. He was starting
to develop as a songwriter. He had written some pretty
good tunes for various late period Oasis records. A Songbird
was a great song, I thought, a Songbird and like,
you know, like don't believe the truth. I mean, I
feel like the songs on that record were like fairly
evenly distributed among the different band members. Um, I think

(41:30):
Noel maybe wrote half of that record. But then you know,
like Liam wrote some songs, Jim Archer wrote some songs.
And Lee would later say like by this era he
was kind of hoping that that he and Nold would
would actually do songwriting together, Like he said he wanted
Gallagher Gallagher writing music together, like, you know, lending a
McCartney style. I'm writing this song, can you help me

(41:50):
a little bit? It's almost like shades of the the
George Harrison UH Beatles, uh feud where it's just you know,
I'm here, I'm working on this. Would you you give
me the respect to come over and actually listen to
it and and maybe elevate me to your level and
we can do this together. We're brothers and Um, I mean,
maybe that's Liam just saying that after the fact, looking
for for for grievances with Noel, despite being sort of

(42:13):
the most obvious offender. But but no also touched on
this later. He said, you know, Liam got cast in
the role of this like performing monkey by the press,
and I got cast as this man behind the curtain,
and maybe Liam wanted to be the Wizard of Oz
instead of the Monkey. Yeah. I mean, like Liam Gagher
is not as good a a songwriter as George Harrison.
I think we can say that pretty unequivvocally, and and
that really kind of comes becomes obvious when Liam starts

(42:38):
a new band called b d I, with members basically
the leftover parts of Oasis and UM. They put out
a record in two thousand eleven called Different Gears Still Speeding,
and it's essentially an attempt to just straight up replicate
Oasis UM, and it sounds a lot like Oasis. You
obviously have the same singer Um, but the songs are

(43:02):
just not as memorable. I mean again, like like we
were talking about in our Roger Waters David Gilmour episode,
like he would be kind of like the David Gilmore
in a way in this dynamic where he's like, yeah,
if you want just straight ahead rock that sounds like
Oasis but doesn't really have any of the substance or
like the memorable parts that made a waste is great,
then like that's what b d I is, um, I'd

(43:24):
say too, Like I interviewed Liam. The one time I
interviewed Liam was when he was promoting that first bd
I record, and I alluded to this earlier, but like,
you know, Liam Gallagher has become a much cannier uh
you know interviewee, you know, as someone who can use
the media to like put himself out there and to

(43:47):
get people on his side. You know, at that time,
he was still like pretty churlish and interviews could be
pretty standoffish. I remember I asked him twenty four questions
in fifteen minutes, Like most of his answers we're like
two or three words. And this kind of became a joke.
Like the answer that he gave I swear to God

(44:07):
more than once was like I'd ask him about like Oasis,
are you gonna play Oasis songs and he would just say,
b d I music mate, b d I music mate,
b d I mate, Like he just said that, like
that three or four word phrase over and over again.
You can't call your album different gear still speeding. That's
obviously an illusion to continuing on the same root and

(44:28):
same path you have been. I'm sorry, I'm sorry I
had to deal with that. That's really annoying. So and
then you have Noel. He starts Noel Gallagher's High Flying
Birds and I remember, you know they came out and
like that self titled debut I think is actually like
a pretty good record, but in a way I felt
like he had a similar issue and that like the

(44:49):
songs were really good, but it also is kind of
a boring record, like it didn't have that edge that
that the best Oasis records have, Like, like, how did
you feel about his solo out? For me, it's a
voice thing to like his voice. I mean, he may
even be technically considered a better singer because he doesn't
have that like Johnny Rotten kind of snarl that Liam does.

(45:10):
But you're right, it just bored me. He's not he's
not a front man. You know, I know yesterday was great,
though I like that well, Like you know, I think
he's a B plus lead singer and he's like a
salad a as a backing singer. Like, there's so many
Osis songs that I love that are just made even

(45:31):
greater because of Noel's backing vocals. Um. I'll say to like,
my favorite as the song of all time is the
song Acquies, which is like a famous B side where
Liam sings the verses and Noel sings the chorus. And
to me, that just makes that song the ultimate always
a song because you can hear both of them. They're

(45:52):
both in a way battling each other for attention in
that song, and yet they're also perfectly complimenting each other
at the same time. Um. I mean again, I think
as a singer, Liam can stand on his own better
than Noel can. But like as a songwriter, Liam can't
even touch, can't come close to touching what Noel can

(46:12):
do musically. But you know, as we get into the
two thousand Tents, it seems like this battle between these
two becomes more of like a Twitter battle than a
musical battle. Wouldn't you say, Oh yeah, I mean Liam's
Twitter skills are absolutely unmatched. I mean, he's it's it's

(46:33):
truly his calling. He's an artist when it comes to
Twitter warfare. He's made just references that just are not
of this world. I have to say. I mean, well,
first of all, I mean, this one's easy, but he
dubbed Noel Gallagher's high flying birds Noel Gallagher's high flying turds,
which is brilliant. That's a classic line there, and he
really just takes it from there and he speaking diragular fans.

(46:54):
You're right, he somehow has leveraged his his persona as
sort of the unstable, crazy one who's you know, let's
face it, the reason why Oasis probably isn't together to
somehow just pleading his case directly to fans and making
himself seem more like the aggrieved party, like he's the
one who wants Oasis to get back together, but my

(47:16):
my boring ass brother wants to do is boring ass
records and he won't do it. Yeah, I mean, to me,
that's the most interesting part of this feud as they've
moved into middle age, because you know, the Twitter aspect
of their battle is more of a one sided battle,
like Noel I don't think he's on Twitter normally. The
way he manifests his own side is he he'll do
an interview and then those quotes will end up on

(47:37):
Twitter and then Liam will react to it. Um. But
Liam has really become like the great wit of these two,
Like he's the one that uh is, you know, he's
on Twitter all the time. He's really funny, like yeah,
calling Noel a potato, Like, I just think it's hilarious.
You know, There's been so many things that he's done,
and like you said, I think there's an aspect to

(48:00):
him where I mean, he's been pretty open about wanting
a Wassis to get back together. I think he's like
done interviews where we've talked about that, He's talked about
that on Twitter. There's been various instances where he felt
like this might have been a good time for a Wassis,
you know, to do a reunion. And I think clearly
there's so many people out there like, if you love

(48:21):
these guys, you would love for the chance to see
them play live together again. And it's almost a thing
now like where Liam is on the fans side and
Noel is the one standing in the way of you know,
this thing happening, which you know, if I look at
it from Noel's perspective, I could see how maddening that

(48:41):
would be, because I'm sure he looks at it as well.
This guy did everything he could to derail the band
when we were together, and I worked really hard to
make a successful sometimes, you know, fighting against this guy
who wanted, you know, to crash us into the side
of a mountain. And now he's you know, acting like

(49:02):
he wants to be nice again. It's like, well, why
would I put myself in that position again? Um, But
I think just due to the fact that Liam has
been so funny lately and he's gotten so much better
at giving interviews and being in the media, and that
he's taking the side that I think more people are
sympathetic toward. In a way, I feel like he's like

(49:23):
won this rivalry over no Like in the last several years.
Oh yes, especially after the the Manchester bombing in May.
I mean Liam made it really awkward for no He
he called no out for not showing up and being
there and reuniting Oasis to to help, you know, unify
their hometown. I think he no claimed he was out
of the country. I think he was, but Liam's tweeting

(49:46):
Adam saying, you know, come on, player songs for the
sad kids, you miserable bastard or something like that. Like
it really it puts a really awkward position, especially when
when these tragedies like that occur. I think he also
tried to get an all the to a Night to
raise money for for COVID. I think too, he's using
all these you know, objectively good causes just trying to

(50:07):
put pressure on his brother do this thing that he
doesn't want to do. Yeah. I mean I think at
this point it's one of those things too, like we're no.
I'm sure there's a pride thing involved here, like where
if he for some reason decided like, Okay, I will
reunite with my brother, what's do an Oasis tour. I
will go through the ordeal of being paid hundreds of

(50:28):
millions of dollars to you know, do this very successful
reunion tour, which I think again, I think that tour
would would be huge. I think certainly internationally, but I
think even in America. Um, because I think Oasis has
taken on a stature of like they're that kind of
band that you don't see much of anymore in the
same way that like Guns and Roses, I think was

(50:49):
able to come back and still be very successful. I
think people look at Oasis says like, well, they don't
make rock bands like that crazy anymore. You know, like
if you're dying for exactly and if you appreciate that
kind of band, I think o waysis even if you
weren't a huge fan of theirs in the nineties. You know,
they have enough of a catalog, they have enough hits
that people know, and just the vibe that they portray.

(51:13):
You know, there's something there I think that would that
would draw a lot of people in. But I think
for Noel it just requires, you know, allowing so much
water to go into the bridge for him to do that.
You know, like we're talking earlier about how you know,
Liam is insinuating that like his daughter isn't his real daughter,
you know, like things like that. It's like, how do

(51:34):
you put that behind and not safe and not lose face?
You know, I'm sure that's something that he must struggle
with when he thinks about this. Oh yeah, the daughter
stuff is something He said it again and again as
being a man, reason why he just can't forgive Liam.
I guess Liam texted Nol's daughter because Noel's wife called

(51:55):
Liam fat on social media, and so Liam texts noles
daughter saying you better tell your step mom to watch out,
and of course which is you know, and then she
goes to to her dad Nol and shows him this
text from uncle Liam, and Noel goes on so I
think it was on social media or Facebook. I forget
where he went, and he said, you know, he threatened
my kids. Now, dude, like no, like, this is not

(52:17):
like if you were in a rock star, we would
file a police report on you, like this is not
like you can't do this. And he's also said like
there's been weird voicemails and other things that that he's
left Noel's daughter. So yeah, I think that the daughter
thing for him is particularly like a bridge too far
for him. I mean, he he's even said, like, you know,
the only reason I ever get the Lass back together
at this point is to shut Liam up and get

(52:38):
him away from my family. But I don't want to
give in. I don't want to. I want to give
him the satisfaction. I just wonder, like with some of
this stuff, and like, look, think Liam, don't text his daughter,
that's not Can we just put the kids off to
the side, Like, just keep it one on one here, right.
I'm totally I totally understand Noel being upset about that.

(52:58):
That that's so crazy to me. I will say though, that,
like I think there's an element here where Noel and Liam.
Again we've talked about this before, but like they look
at Ois differently and they and I think in a
way a lot of this arguing is about like how
they want Oasis to be regarded and how they wanted
to be remembered. Noel wants it to be about the songs.

(53:21):
He's always talked about how you know, this is like
when Oasis was first becoming popular, Like he wanted Oasis
albums to be looked at his timeless. He wanted them
to be regarded the same way we look at great
Beatles records of great Rolling Stones records. Like he cares
about the lineage of rock history and he wants to

(53:42):
be in that company, whereas Liam, I think, also cares
about that. But he also embraces the pro wrestling aspect
of Oasis, you know, like the idea that always this
is a band that lives large, that they caused controversy
that they make people upset from time to time time,
but that is a big part of their appeal. And

(54:03):
I think even now with like a lot of his
tweets or even like when he's texting Noel's daughter, I
think there's an element of him being like, you know,
the macho man, Randy Savage. You know, I think there's
like a wrestling aspect to that where he's playing up
the idea of him being like this flamboyant frontman and
like this is what you do. And like especially now

(54:24):
because how many Liam Gallagher's are are there in the world,
Like there's not really that many anymore, so it's like
even there's even more of a need for someone like that.
And I have to say, like I'm sympathetic to both
sides because I do think o Ways has made great
albums and they should be regarded as again some of
the best rock music of that era. But I also

(54:46):
love the pro wrestling aspect of Oasis, and I every
time Liam pixify with Noel on Twitter, I eat it
up to this day, like I never get sick of it.
So you know that I think is the kind of
the rucks of like what this rivalry is as a
part of you that wants them to be just happy
enough to share a stage, but not actually happy. It's

(55:07):
like Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, Like you don't want
to see them really hug on stage, like you want
to see them stare each other down during the chain,
like you know, it's just yeah, that is such a
huge part of their alert when I love about them too,
and yeah, just yeah, yeah, just like the fighting, but
like how how exhausting it must be to be in

(55:27):
the middle of that, And I get that, but also
entertain me rock stars and make each other miserable, That's
what I want. We're gonna take a quick break to
get a word from our sponsor before we get two
more rivals. So okay, so this is the part of

(55:52):
the episode, like where we talk about the pro sides
of each side, and let's start with Noel Gallagher because
in a way, I feel like it's the more straightforward case.
And again, I mean, we see this dynamic in so
many bands that there's the antagonists and the protagonist, and Noel,
I guess would be the protagonist here. It seems like
he's he's the songwriter he's the general of the band.

(56:16):
I think it's fair to say that Liam in the
Rain like that would have been the band. Without Noel,
they never would have made it out of Manchester. Um,
there's a question about that. And you know, ultimately when
we talk about OSIS, it's going to be because of
Wonder Wall Live Forever, Don't Look Back in Anger, Champagne Supernova.
No wrote all those songs and he's rightfully proud of

(56:39):
of that legacy. Oh yeah, I wrote all the hits.
Incredible guitarist, create a visionary of the band. I'll take
his solo work over Liam's any day. Uh. And I
think it's fad that he pushed the band to try
to grow creatively. I mean there's a quote that they
gave when they released Definitely Maybe where Noel was saying like, well,
all we want to do is release an album. When
we did that, now we're looking forward to a lie

(57:00):
time of boredom. He said something like that. And it
could have been easy. They wanted they formed a band
to get the hell out of Manchester, and they did that,
and yet Noel still tried to push beyond and it's
something I'd be here now. I mean, we joke about
how sort of overblown it is, but like trying different things,
I think it was really laudable and even when they
didn't work, it's still just making the effort gave the

(57:21):
UH their later era stuff in particular, more depth. Yeah,
And like you know, I think I have to do
is ask yourself, like what if Liam was your younger brother?
But it's like, how well would you deal with that?
I mean, just this irritant in your life for you know,
from the time that you were a little kid. I
think he was relatively patient with Liam for a really

(57:41):
long time and it just got to a point where
he couldn't take it anymore. And you know, again like
if I put myself in this position, could I have
lasted that long in a band with someone like Liam Gallagher?
I don't know. I think I think Noel deserves some
credit for that um switching over the pro Liam's hide,
you know, like I said earlier, as annoying as he

(58:03):
can be as a brother, I'm sure to me he
embodies the spirit of Oasis. You know, like in his
prime he was young, dumb, strunk, and he was absolutely magnetic.
You know. It's like it's frankly, what separates Oasis from
every other britpop band. And you know, all due respect
to Damon Alburn, I'm not I'm not taking it, but

(58:26):
like Damon Alburn is not nearly as rock and roll
as Liam Gallagher. He doesn't have the kind of swagger
that Liam Gallagher has, he doesn't have the kind of
presence that he has, and I think as a musician,
as a singer, Liam is underrated. I think at his
peak he was one of the great rock singers of
his time and he was able to communicate I think,

(58:49):
more emotional depth then uh he's given credit for. I mean,
go back to Definitely Maybe and listen to the song
slide Away. His vocal on the course of that song
incredibly resonant and emotional and uh, and I think it
just hits harder because it comes from the guy who's
singing about cigarettes and alcohol and singing supersonic like. He

(59:12):
can be that, but he can also show you a
more tender side, uh that you maybe wouldn't expect so
um as a frontman, I put him really high on
my own list of a favorite frontman. And as much
as like the Rain, the old Lean Gallagher man wouldn't
have made it without bringing Noel Gallagher and becoming Oasis.

(59:34):
I think a band where Noel Gallagher was the frontman,
or they had some other guy singing lead, they wouldn't
have hit the height st Oasis dead. You know you
needed that guy, that singer, uh for it to be Oasis.
Oh yeah, I mean he could sell some truly terrible
Oasis lyrics too. I mean some might say the fishes

(59:55):
because she's got dirty dishes on the brain and my
dog has been itching itching in the kitchen once again,
mean awful, awful. It's only a certain kind of guy
I can sell that line, and Liam can. He makes
it sound badass, it sounds awesome. He's like the personification
of the band and everything it represents, you know what
I mean. Like you said, I mean, Nol was happy
just being a roady you know. He even though the

(01:00:17):
fact that Liam couldn't write a song and really didn't
have much musical talent to speak of. He he just
wanted it so badly. Just by sheer force of will
and attitude, he sort of willed this band into existence.
So yeah, I agree, he is the spirit of Oasis.
So bringing these guys together and you know, we've hit
upon this time and again in this episode. But I
think it's clear that they're worth more than the some

(01:00:39):
of the parts. You know that what made always this
work and what drew fans like me into the band
was the tension between these guys, the very real tension
of them arguing all the time, and also the tension
of what they represented, the idea of of of chaos
and order pushing up against each other constantly. And if

(01:01:00):
it were just one, the band would be either spun
out of control or they would have been a boring
britpop band that we don't care about anymore. But because
they had both, that is what makes a waste of
special and it's what for me brings me back to
their great records time and again. Um And I think
they do hold up. And even if these guys never

(01:01:21):
played together again, I think what they created together will
stand up as like the defining British rock of the nineties.
Sometimes it feels like they're playing the long con in
this feud is just like a way to hook us
all in for some you know, inevitable reunion toward bonanza,
which you know allow Do you think that that on
some level they actually really like each other. You know,

(01:01:41):
I think the animosity is genuine, um, but it's hard
for me to believe that they won't eventually reunite, you know,
Like I saw Liam Gallagher play a solo gig a
couple of years ago at First Avenue in Minneapolis, and
it was a great show. But I couldn't help but
think that across the street is the Target Center, which

(01:02:01):
is like a seed arena, which I'm pretty sure Oways
has played there back in the past. And it was
just like, Oasis needs to be in this building, you know,
Liam gallaghery needs to be in this building. And I'm
sure like Liam in his own mind thinks that no
one might have a harder time coming around to that.
But you can't run away from your destiny. I feel

(01:02:24):
like this is their destiny, and as difficult as it is,
you know, the burden of being an oasis, you know,
maybe they can suffer through the inevitable, you know, millions
and millions of dollars that they will be paid to
get together. You know, when that finally happens, no Liam,
get back together like each other, but not too much, yes,

(01:02:45):
and and don't look back in anger, Liam and Noel,
you know, because maybe you're gonna be the only ones
who save each other. I think that's fair to say.
That's you know, like again, like that line's stands out.
That's why that stands out. It's a powerful line, and
I think it applies to these guys, So make it happen. Guys, Stephen,

(01:03:07):
you and I are gonna live forever. Yes, we're gonna
live forever. Man. We're definitely live until next week when
we do another episode of Rivals. So please tune in
at that time for our next episode, and uh, we'll
talk at you guys next week, and that's the end.

(01:03:28):
Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. The executive
producers are Shawn ty Toone and Noel Brown. Supervising producers
are Taylor R. Cooin and Tristan McNeil. I'm Jordan run Talk.
I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard, please
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