March 17, 2026 • 52 mins
Drink Champs Network Presents: ROC Solid with Memphis Bleek.
This week on ROC Solid, we tappin’ in with none other than Shyheim — Staten Island’s own Shyheim, the legendary “Rugged Child” made his mark in hip hop at a young age and never looked back. In this candid episode, Shyheim reflects on his early days coming up under the wing of the Wu-Tang movement and how being surrounded by greatness shaped his career and perspective on the music industry.
Throughout the conversation, Shyheim breaks down what it was like stepping into the rap game as a teenager, delivering raw lyricism and street knowledge that set him apart from his peers. He shares stories about recording classic music, building relationships within hip hop, and the lessons he learned navigating fame so early in life. The discussion also dives into the ups and downs he faced over the years, offering a real and unfiltered look at the challenges artists experience behind the scenes.
With plenty of gems along the way, Shyheim also talks about growth, redemption, and his continued love for hip hop culture. His passion for the craft is undeniable as he reflects on his legacy and what still motivates him today.
From classic hip hop history to personal reflection, this episode delivers an honest conversation with one of Staten Island’s most respected voices.
Tap in - history’s being told by the ones who lived it.
This is ROC Solid. 💎 💯
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What up, y'all? This is your main man, Memphis Bleak
right here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to rock Solid, a production of iHeart Radio and
the Black Effect Network in partnership with my guys over
at Drink Champs. You should know, good know, you should
nobody know. Yeah yeah, y'all you already know what it is.
(00:25):
Back with another exclusive rock Solid podcast. Yours truly am
greasy and I got one of my good good friends.
I mean, when I first got in this game, you know,
it's not a lot of guys that was young and
spitting like us. It was Ce's, it was Ji, it
was the Locks, you know what I mean, you had
illegal But the first one really from the projects putting
(00:49):
in that work before all of us, was my man
right here, Shahim, the motherfucking rugged child aka the Mad Child.
Let's welcome my guys, my brother, my god.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Make it easy money, yo.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You know what's so ill man?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Like before we even started to interview, Like, my g
I gotta thank you in some way for being too
hot back in the day, Like because if you think
about it, you was on so much fire that way.
Hove reached out to you.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hove never reached out to me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You can't your people. You know, niggas have representatives, you
know how that ship was back in the day. Everybody's speaking.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I always say this right because when I read
it in the book, I was, I was, I was,
I was up north when I read it, and I'm like, wow,
I never knew of this, right that yo, that when
you know, he seen me running with Caine and we
did the show and proved record that he was inspired
by by a young dude in the game making moves
that he wanted to create this record, and he said
(01:54):
he reached out to my people's but he never said who,
and nobody ever stepped up. Nobody ever stepped up, Like
know he called me and that nobody did that. So
I felt like like I felt like, damn, you know
what that that was a missed opportunity. But at the
same time, it was a blessing, right, it was a
blessing because yet and still I was the one that
(02:14):
inspired him to write it. But it was your blessing
because it was supposed to happen for me would have happened.
But I always still be wondering if if you watch
this man, who you re sauting man, because that's.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's because I always thought, you know, you was on tall.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Was always was you know me man. We grew up
in the lyrical days, right. And when I first heard
whole when he said, I'm like Prince Jeans, I bring
the assert a nigga, I thought he was an illus nigger.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Ever as well, so for me, I'm like, yo, I got.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Records with smoother hustler sugar again, right, why would I
deny hold a record that that That didn't make no sense?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But again that happened in the business.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And then I thought, I said, yo, you know what,
he probably was just trying to go to handle Is
this the right way?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And I just be like, yo, because I used to.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
See him, you know, I called him Massie and he
pulled up. I was like, Yo, you could have just said, yo, Shot,
I want you on.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
The record, and it would have been it would have
been done. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But you know it is And that's the thing a
lot of people don't know, Sha. I used to definitely
pull up in Massie. We have mutual peoples. I used
to go to staple To. That's when I first met you.
When that's when you Yeah, we was just rhyming. But
you know how it was back in the day niggas
be like Yo, it was a sight for niggas.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Was bad and there it was. No, it was nothing
like like yo, I burnt you or nothing like that.
Was like you was on.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So that even rhyme against a nigga who had a
deal that I could watch your video music box. You
gotta remember back then to a nigga. Remember this is
ninety four my name. We told him out before it
was even a thought you could be.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
On the one. I remember it was.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I don't know if it was the hard knocked life,
but it was me you Eve and we was and
Kwa Maine and we had a lobby and the dude
was trying to stand on Kwame and then we all
went in.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
On went on. You know what.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
See you know what it was member of Rest in
Peace Salad.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
They used to always try to pin us together.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That how I met you like was through him. You know,
we had mutual friends. My man kayl that was his brother.
So when I came to stat Nolan and kay Lou, Yo,
this is my dude, bleak, nobody fucking with him salace Like,
ain't nobody fucking.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
He ain't got you. You came out with the.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Honey niggas from the hood.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Man, I don't remember that write what I'm saying with them, right,
But listen, honestly.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I don't movies going out. I was like, yo, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
No, No, we down, yo, Bro, we just probably you
probably spent one verse.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I spent one verse.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It wasn't like a major sighthering it. After that, Bro,
we went to the crib. You brought me to your
crib wherever you was living, whatever building you had a
crib and at that time we were smoking. We blew
it down. No, I ain't gonna front man. I always
say I met you ghost Rizza all y'all in the
same day fucking with.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, sounds definitely stat down legend.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
N But like, take us back, because you was the
first nigga from the projects, little nigga who really looked
like us, Like you had your criss Cross, you had
your ABC. They was dope, but they wasn't project hustling
niggas holding a gun on their hip and then going
to the studio, getting busy and getting on TV. That
was the first.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think I was the first
one with a explicit lyrics sticker on their album. And
I actually had to fight through a lot of things
like the FCC, you know what I'm saying, and fight
with the labels to be able to have the content
that I was talking about because they wanted it. They
wanted manufactured, they wanted they wanted bubble gum. They wanted
(05:47):
you to be able to come with a sticker, I mean,
a piece of gum in your album type ship, you
know what I'm saying, especial. Yeah, So I had to
fight through a lot of that, you know what I'm saying.
And even with the films, I was one of the
first rappers to get into films and everything. So I
took a lot of hits for the game. And sometimes
it sucks when you take the hit because once everybody
gets past that and it becomes a norm, you honestly
(06:09):
sometime get forgotten in the process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That's a fact. So, but how old were you when
you got your first deal?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I signed the Virgin I was thirteen. I was thirteen
when I made my first deal. I signed for three fifty.
My first deal was one of the biggest deals in history,
and that was because Virgin and Warner Brothers had a
bidding war and Virgin had lost to Warner Brothers with
Tevin Campbell, and Virgin wasn't trying to lose this one.
(06:35):
But in hindsight, I should have took the deal with
Warner Brothers if I knew I was going to get
into acting. So Warner Brothers was offering an album deal
and a spot on The Fresh Prince of bel Air
because Benny Medina was the creator of the Fresh Prince
of bel Air, and Virgin was offering a production deal
with RNs.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So you know, if they took the production deal to
be able to put.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
GP Whochang on for an album deal, and you know,
that's what happened, you know what I'm saying, And I signed,
I was like yo, But I wasn't even trying to
be an actor then, because in that days, it was
like acting was being a sellout if you was in
movies or anything.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, it wasn't no role. You couldn't do no role
at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It was like you no.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
After I'm talking about in nineteen ninety three and ninety four,
there wasn't many rappers that was trying to be actors. Actually,
Big Daddy Kane took a lot of hits for doing that,
being an actor and posse and all that there was,
you know, and you know, working with Barry White and
doing big records like that in the hip hop area underground, it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Was considered like, yo, you're selling out for popular pop up.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
You was considered you know that. So Caine took a
lot of hit for us.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But before all of that, Man, your debut album, The
Rugged Child, Take me through that process? What was that?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This is before the acting this but you was thirteen.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, when I got the deal, it was it was incredible, right,
it was incredible because I was able to look out
for the family.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That was the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I remember when I first got my first check man,
we went downtown Alvey Square More and I bought my
first chain and I was and I used to wear
my cousin's hand me down, so people used to think
the Rugged Child just wore big clothes because I wanted
to those was hand me downs.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when I was able to actually buy.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
My own self something, you know what I'm saying, and
even put food in the frigerator like my friends used
to look like water and bacon, soda, My nigga, you
know what, I'm saying syrup sandwich and syrup bread like
that was my crib.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know that was dessert. You know what I'm saying,
front on the syrup sandwich ge. That ship was head. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
And you know then my mom's you know, my pops
was in prison. My moms were struggling with substance abuse
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So the block was really what raised me.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And it's like I took a lot of that that
that ship on face value, I threw people really loved me,
but it was it was the rugged child, it was
the deal, it was the music. And then when real
life happens, you know what happened, you know what I'm saying.
So that's why I big up your crew because I
was like your crew or your parents or whoever grabbed
you at that young age, true and and and and
(09:19):
made not I don'dn't say made you, but just remove
you from that, you know what I'm saying, Or you
would have been you would have went through the same
shit that I went.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Through in the project. Because mostly is just like Staples, that's.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
A fact, bro.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Like that credit I got to give all do to
Jay and his cousin be High jazz O you know
the source money. He's like, I tried, bro, I was
that little nigga wild and them niggas used to come through,
shake it up, be like you got what you got
this throwing my pack away, take the biscuit. Tell niggas, yo,
how you letting this nigga out here do this and
all that. So they was the niggas that I used
(09:51):
to have to hide from, like trying to be outside,
you know what I mean. And then growing up in hindsight,
I used to be like, Yo, them niggas is on
some bullshit. But looking back, it's like, Yo, the niggas
really saved my life.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
That's a blessing shout out to them for that, you
know what I'm saying. Me On an end, Two, it's
like my older brothers gave me the freedom that I had, right,
I always had the freedom. So it's hard, I guess
telling a young kid with the money what to do,
and I'm sure I was ignorant and get lot of ways,
you know what I'm saying as well, So maybe it
(10:25):
was a situation where it's like, Yo, you can't tell
this little nigga.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
He's gonna have to find out on his own.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And you got to think at that time, three fifty
my nigga in nineteen.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I was like ninety four of them.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
No, that's like two million my nigga. Three fifty back then,
because I think my first album there was a buck fifty.
I got forty five grand as a sign of events
and thought I was the richest nigga from Nebraska.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Man.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I used to I bought my first car in ninth grade.
I used to.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I used to literally put telephone books to sit on
with a pillow and come through like this. I take
to tell you, come through the pillow like you know
what I mean, Dudes at bus passing I was.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I was come pulling up to school right.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
But it was like the responsibility and the freedom I had,
even even to not graduating from high school. I got
my ged up north, you know what I'm saying. But
because once I figured out I'm paying for it, it
was like, yo, you're fired. I'm paying for It's my money.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
So a lot of it, irite, I contribute to some
of my like not knowing really what it was really his.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And I'm gonna say back then, a lot of iog's
they showed us how to get money. They never showed
us what to do with the money once you got it.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, and a lot of them was learning themselves.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
And then when I look at it, I was like, yo, yeah,
I was thirteen fourteen, but brothers was only twenty five,
twenty six. So it's like now that I'm grown, I'm like, yo,
I ain't even get it right until my thirties.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And after thirties you're still a kid too. But thirteen, bro,
you was a baby money outside.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Moving in clubs and clubs. Listen, if there was a
me too movement, then all these older.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Chicks would be they'd be under the gail right now
because I've definitely was slaying.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
All the old game.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
But Yo, how these kids be telling now on the
think about our teachers back in the day with major
librarians looking like.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
But you now they got the lift teachers and thek
in the class.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
When these kids be telling the bugging? But yo, yo,
did you at that age? I got It's a question
I can answer for myself, but I want to hear
from you. Did you even fully grasp like the magnitude
how big Wu Tang and yourself was at that time?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
All it's it's hard with like I always tell people
right because when they asked me.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know, how was it going, I'm like, I don't know.
They was just regular brothers like us. We always just
trying to get out of stat now and right, and
for me, the world was the world.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
But as long as I was was like known is
stat now and that was my world, so.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
It really didn't matter anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I was like, Yo, they know me in stat now
and I can go to the wave and rock, I
can get it. People know me, you know what I'm
saying like that, So that was that was the whole
That was the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
But to actually be on the radio, I'll never forget it.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Because I was on I was on a promotional tour.
Vision Records put me on a promotional tour and that's
when I actually went out with Big Daddy Kane as well,
and that's how I did the joint with me Pop
Big and off so stage that I'm coming off the air.
First of all, we didn't have like cell phones or
none of that. No, So I would call home and
(13:38):
my boy was.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like, Yo, they playing your video on B and T
and Yo, you're on the radio.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I'm like, get out of here, right. But this is
before somebody recognized me. So when I got back to
New York and I got off the airplane and people.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Was like, oh, your rugg said, let me get an
order rep.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I remember, that was the funniest thing in the world
to me. I was like, Yo, why you want me
to sign a piece of paper? I just couldn't get it.
And some people might have took that as being funny,
but I really thought it was like I didn't get it.
I was like, why gotta sign this paper, yo, Let's
just wrap it up, because that's what I was used to.
I'll see you when I see you. But that was
that was really like a big big shot.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yo, being young like you from the projects rapping. This
is before coming to age because like I said, you
was the first my g seeing you in the Rugged
Child videos, the Wu Tang videos, the Big Daddy King
video with you saw us money and Jay I ain't
gonna cap you sitting here. You my nigga. I knew
you for years. I was hate this nigga.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Think he is he think he the thug?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Its little nigga. It's little niggas out here thugging too.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And from stat now to right because Brooklyn, Brooklyn look.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Got the hoodies on the big loads, my nigga. I
used to be looking at the videos like ooh, this
niggas winning and then the Preacher's Wife. Yeah, then it
was like, my g how did that work? How did well?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
The first thing with acting came from Don't Go Chasing
Waterforce TLC video.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That was my first acting job.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I forgot you was in that video my first.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Acting job, and pretty much after that people was just calling.
That's why I always tell people, man, listen, what's for
you is for you. If they want to find you,
you could be you could be the UNI bomber living
in the stick. Somebody gonna end up knocking on your
door because that's what they want.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And you know, and it was the blessing. It was
the blessings like that, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
And I always tell people, man, coming up age, you
did a phenomenal job because I remember when I heard it,
I was like, who this this is?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Before I even know that Jay wrote it with me
and all that, and I'm like, who's this to it from?
And then they started saying, yo, that son from Marcie,
that such and such and I was like, oh, you
know what I'm saying. And then you know, Pop Jeter
K and also the embassy.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Been in if Blue and all people people they're like, yo,
that's my lee and it was just it was just
a full shirt word but it was just you know,
you moving and then it was like, you know, life,
life takes you separate different ways.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
But I definitely always remember that time.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
So even you know when we go through our ship
on the Internet and ship and we be texting, sitting
there joking and.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Last that's a fact. They don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
But anything you said on that you said to me,
and everything that I said on that I said to
you before we went to the internet with anything.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Before it was any internet, my nigga, we was out
here talking ship.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It was always on.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That nigga, I'm the nicest king with me and we
were that that's the competitive ship in New York, just
putting you as a shorty coming up watching the o
GS and then let's go back though. Man, that night,
Tupac Biggie, you came, my nigga, come on, my g
helled it down.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yo. It was such a great feeling because like at
this time, rappers wasn't being at the garden no at all.
So Big Daddy Kane was really that dude, and it
was the Budwiser superfess. So I was a miner and
it Kane had to fight for me because they didn't
want no minor because they were selling beer and stuff.
And then it came was like, yo, he has to
(17:21):
you know what I mean. But the greatest feeling was
coming out there and it was just like Yo, Stanton
Allen right, just to be able to save my burrow
and be like.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yo, Wu Tang.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
People didn't even know Whu tang really like that at
this point, you know. And it was like I didn't
know who was in the crowd until the next day
coming outside.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
He was like yo, always seeing you on the stay because.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
It wasn't like now you had to hear it or
be there in order to get the information. So if
that made it even better once I came home and
I knew people from my neighborhood seen me on that stage.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But that shit was on every mixtape. Flex used to
play that shit every night.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
My g like and all your.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Niggas in your own right respect that held it down.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
But you was what.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Fourteen on stage with these old g's and put that
like that night, my G. Let me know on some
G ship, you held it down for every little nigga
that dreamed them making it out the hood and showing
these old niggas. I could hold it down to my nigga.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
And then what I was wearing, we know, we was,
we was, we were shaping the kasu of being young dudes.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I never forget it out on a blue Columbian rain suit.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
He was that nigga back then and there, my G.
So then fucking the acting open up different doors for you.
Didn't wrap that at that time that you felt.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Oh, definitely, definitely because because after after after the TLC video,
it kind of took me from being just a rapper
into like pop world because they were huge, right, so
people will see me then and be like, oh, that's
the kid from the video and didn't even though I rapped.
So then my career took two separate careers because there's
people that didn't know.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Me from rapping but knew me for acting.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It was just like, yo, that's the kid from Original
Gangsters with Pam grid Fred Williamson. Yo, that's the kid
from the Robin Townsend showed parent hood right, But it
was also a.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Different bag than rap hell. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It was.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It was totally different.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But what was the distraction for you?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Because you caught your first bid around them that time too.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
The distraction was staying local, man, staying local and survivors
survivor's guilt, right, thinking I gotta take everybody, And in highsight,
what I should have did was packed my mother up,
moved somewhere else where she couldn't be on them drugs,
and put her in the rehab that my moms would
probably still be here today. If I was, if thank you,
(19:49):
If I was, if I was drown enough in my
mind right, because that's like taking a young kid now
and giving him life in prison for something he did
at fourteen. His brain ain't fully developed. Your brain don't
fully develop into a certain age, right, So my brain
wasn't developed like that, But I was making grown man decisions.
That's like giving a four year old of machine guns.
(20:12):
You got thirty bodies and then you throw them in
jail and say, yo, you made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And no, I didn't know what else that I was doing.
But what I knew how to do? You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And at that time, we had nothing, bro, it was
no outlets. It was not like I tell my son
all the time and it's a lot of job opportunities
for you as a kid.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Then it was a summer youth job. So that's it.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Or well, what I used to do. I used to
pack bags in front of Super bowls because you mess,
Can I help you to your car with your bags?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Or I would collect bottles or things like that, or
ask everybody in the hood.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yo, yo yo, I'll go to the store and get
my little ones and two.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
From going to the store, that's how I was able
to buy my Max Maxwell ninety minute tapes. To be
able to go to RNs and get beats and go,
I used to have to. I used to have to
give Rizza game Boy games for beats.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yo, chill me give you this game boy.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Boy. Your game Boy was legendary.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
But Rizza, you found trade beats for gay boy.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
This is what I had to do, you know what
I'm saying, because looks and everybody else that was in
the crib man was getting beats and you know, so
I had to, you know, come with something.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And that's dope, man, Like to be the youngest nigga
from Stapleton, all of y'all, because niggas think all wool
Tangers from one project. Everybody was from different projects. You
had Stapleton, park Kill Castle, will Right.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
What is well, nobody was really from that. It was
really just Stapleton and Paul Hill and Brooklyn. Because you
keep in mind, majority Jesu Master Killer ray Kun.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Is really originally from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Nah, Ray, don't tell me that from Brooklyn. Don't tell
me that.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
It's really I think it's just ghost inspected that and
even you guys originally but Rizza and the movie to
stat now like I mean, I guess they was teenagers
still but still at teenagers.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Or whatever, you know, but think about it, bro to
be that young in the crib with all of that
at that time, you know, in the middle. I've been
through it, so I know asking you this question is
like asking myself like we of course we didn't recognize
the greatness we were creating. We just was creating. But
looking back, what advice would you give your younger self? Man?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Oh Man, I would definitely say I would definitely say
education is key.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
If I could go back, I would have definitely went
to college. I would have definitely had those experiences as
a kid, right because that would have gave me the structure,
you know what I'm saying, to be able to maneuver
in this business.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And then by doing right business, then I think my
life would have turned out a little different. As far
as what I went through. I don't regret anything because
the tools.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That it gave me. That now that I'm able to going.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
To these prisons and talk to these youth from experiences
and really give it to them real and be like yo.
And I'm not one that just talks about it. I'm
like yo, listen, gee, this is what I walked, this
is what I had, this this is what I left,
and now I'm still alive.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
And this is why this is what I get my
get back up.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
This what feels good to me when I save ten
kids from not going to prison, and when I give
them the game and teach them, you know what I'm saying.
But it's all about the seeds that's playing it, you
know what I mean. And I would just tell my
youngest self. You know what I'm saying, It'll be all
right no matter what things happen for you, not to you.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
And that's really it. And you know what I'm saying.
And you know, always always stay focused, always.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Stay fact man. Being the youngest, like I said, man,
you inspired a lot of us. Man, I'm not gonna
sit here and act like I wasn't inspired. You show
me that I can do it, you know what I mean? You,
like I said, the criss Crosses, the ABC's, the illegal youngsters,
the youngsters, all the Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Caught that the music was PG.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah it was. But you came out the first with
the hood the gritty, the hoodies on that woo vibe. Like,
I feel like you don't get enough credit for being
the spark of this generation of the young guys that
came up, because remember you had the bow Wows. After
that you had Little Romeo, you know what I mean.
(24:28):
Then you got all the young niggas. Now the game
is ran by young niggas, and like I said, you
was the first. So do you feel you get credit
for being like, you know what I mean, a generational,
generational gem man?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Always I was always told this right, You don't have
to tell your story.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
People are telling for you when it's real. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I think it's not just me, our history in general,
people don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So who am I to say? Yo, they don't know me,
they don't know Malcolm X, they don't know Martin Luther King,
they don't know the.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Grace that really made it possible for us to have freedom.
So listen, it's so good.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
One day they will know, and when they do know,
then they could do better.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
That's a fact, man, that your time away you know
what I mean. I don't like talking about being like, Yo,
you was incarcerated all several times, like your time away
from music? You know what I'm saying, What did that
teach you about yourself?
Speaker 4 (25:22):
It made it was like it was like being in
themselves was like watching the video tape play back. And
when I watched that tape, I seen the errors that
I made, and I said, all I can do is
correct them and do better next time. Like you know
what I'm saying, Nobody is exempt for making mistakes.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
We all make them. It's what you do with them after.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
There's nobody in this business could be like yo, I
did terrible business with them, or yo, I started making
wax stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It was just life.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I became I became a liability in some ways, you
know what I'm saying. And only right, right, you know
what I'm saying when you're dealing with business, and it's like, Yo,
this kid today that we investing in tomorrow he might
be in project and he called the gun or be
in the shootout and be in the students stuff. Right,
why would you invest in that? So it was it
was a lot of that. So yo, listen, man again,
(26:11):
like I wouldn't have it no other way, you know
what I'm saying, Because now it's a testament and my
story could be used to as a prevention and a
cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And and that's and that's what it's for.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Like when you first came home, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Like I know, when you first come home, the first
thing you want to do is get back the family,
get back your kids, get back there, y'all gonna get
back on the ground. But one thing I respect that
you did, man, is start your foundation the rugged road,
the recovery.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, I respect that.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That's that's really that's just and great movement you created.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Because I said to myself, I want to be what
I needed. You know what I'm saying, I want to
be what I really needed. And I know these youth
needed and they don't want to hear it from somebody
that really that really can't tell them, like, yo, be
my moms. My mom's in two state bits. I was
sixteen years old, taking care of old house, going up
to Bedford Hills to visit my moms, going up to
(27:03):
Clinton to visit my pops. But running a household by
myself with a bunch of friends in the house, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
And it's like that was just my reality, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
And on the forefront, people just see the music and
they see that and they think you fumbling the music.
But when you're dealing with real life at the same time,
they don't see that of a half.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So it was just like I was just trying to
navigate through life, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Like with that being said, like you know, it's a
lot of young stars in the game now, and you
know a lot of these young guys, it's got turbulence
and they and they track record right now. Man, you
know what I'm saying. So, do you feel like the
industry do enough to protect young stars?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's not for that. Again, it's a business. It's a business.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
In a minute that your business ain't making the money,
that's what you'll be to.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
The side and trying to figure it out life, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And I tell you, holler at me man, all of
them out there, man, holler at me man. And it's
not for no bread or nothing, because I do this
book for my heart, you know what I'm saying. So
if there's any a time I don't feel shy, hit
me on the DM, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give
you the game. I'm gonna give it to you for
what it is. You might not like it, but it's
just the truth.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Like Yo, And you know what I'm saying. Like being
from New York, we always consider statn al in the
Fifth Borough.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah, well sometimes sometimes it gives a long houran I'm
just saying, Joe saying, time we get left out, we.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Got That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Do you feel like stant Nell to get enough credit
for the impact y'all contributed to hip hop? Because you
was the first shorty Wu Tang was the first project nigga.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of grace
that come from stat Now. And I get left out
because you have four some d's who was one of
the biggest.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
State Don't rock the boat.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
You know what I'm saying, don't rock the boat.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Then after them, you had you had the US. Then
you had King just King Justice and he was.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The first nigga with night style, pending, no front, no cat.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Now bond click. You had a e mom from stat
now and uh who else? Uh?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What's her name? Melissa Alano?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yet mac wows that's my dog.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I got a lot of got a lot of a
lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Great Yes, yes, what's my dog my other dog from
the wire man.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Come on, man, we got hell we got a little
little rainy uh from power Yo.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
But hold on, man, let's get back to my man
hot song man. The nigga invited me like, yo, bleak,
I got the club and stand there and pull up.
You know, I'm throwing my birthday party. I'm like, I'm
a pull up. He's like, Yo, it's it's right there
in the hood, Bros.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We're good I'm like, don't worry about we good cool.
I pull up my nigga. This nigga went to the store.
You know how the store has like the story shared
with the opening store on the back. His club was
down there, so I'm like, Yo, now my nigga, we
gotta walk in. So he opened the joint. We walked
down and it's a real club. DJ chicks down there.
(30:06):
Bodyes everything. Yo. Broke my mind for yo.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Because they was doing for Saint Paul's. It's like it
looked like apartment and you go in. You got down.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Joe, this ship was insane. Nigga bought me through the
store and ship, and I'm like, Joe, I never with him.
I've been seeing corner stores my whole life. I see
them open that, but they don't let us in there.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah, because I never really had clubs. We really just
had like balls and little speakeasies. You know what I'm
saying that that club.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yo, I definitely got a lot of man like you
know what I mean, like hip hop today? Man, you
know what I'm saying. Looking back Wu Tang legacy, everything
y'all contributed because the Woo legacy, I feel like you
was part of that. You know what I mean that
they can't. I'm not gonna leave you out of that
(30:56):
because when they first started, you was right there with
all of them, making the same exact hits as them.
You just had a little bit of turbulent in your
life the way people might forget, but to me, you
was always a part of that legacy. Man, Like, do
you feel like what y'all contributed to the game ever
get misunderstood? Or do you feel like it's larger than
(31:19):
you ever?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Listen? Listen, WU Tang is nominated to be in the
rock Rock Rock? What's that rock? Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Rock?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And don't get that? So when they make it, I
make it. That's what I'm saying. It's all good. Like
you know what I'm saying. Am I gonna be on
the stage and probably not? You know what I'm saying.
I always tell people this just three mood sangs. You
know what I'm saying? Who saying? The corporation?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
You may know as a business that yo, if you
ain't doing the business with the corporation, ain't no really
room for you.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
And it's the group.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Forty W Tang numbers, but for life, that's a fact, man,
and I respect that y'all all still show love because
I just seen you with meth you know, rest in
peace to the you know, I mean, I've seen you
with ghost Red And that's that's dope, man, Because you know,
a lot of people forget where they come from when
they say you get.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Success, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And these is fucking giant and success and they still
fuck with where they come from.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
But like I say, it's different relationships, right, So you
have although you have all the success, like for instance,
you lose a loved one that everybody knows. You got
to come back to the bottom, right, and you gotta
be with your peoples. So if you can't come back
home what you really got, you really don't got nothing.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's a fact. If you can't go back, you ain't
got nothing, man.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
But yeah, nah, the Klan to Klan everybody man, you know.
And and with the Internet sometime, with it being so
much music out there, these people still pop the brown hornet,
you know what I'm saying, gp Wull. That's all the
dudes that still they still everybody's still making music, but
it's just so much.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
That it gets lost in it.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And the Klan being so big, like even for me,
Like I've made a lot of accomplishments, but being.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Under the Klan, it gets swallowed. You could get swallowed.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I know. You know you can make a hit right
now and they're gonna be like, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
A fact, bro. It's like it's like holding a candle
to the sun, my nigger. I've been dealing with that
ship my whole life, so I totally agree, Like do
you feel I know you one that we spoke because
you hit me? You know, I have my dog shout out,
Cassidy shot my dog up here, so this episode and
shot hit me like bleak. I gotta niggas it ain't
(33:28):
happened like that. I ain't leave the dog like that.
And I'm like, shah, he didn't shit on.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You, No he didn't. He did not ship on me.
But this is right.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
It's like what they call that suggestive, suggestive conversation and
leading right.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So first, right, because it was two parts of this story.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
He said, he said, he said, I left him stranded,
you called, you told him come to New York, and
then answer the fune.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
First, First, we have to be together for me to
leave you. So I didn't leave you nowhere we never linked.
So I'm gonna take you back to nineteen ninety four.
Now you know who I am in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Five, right already, I'm gonna super lit.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Cassidy was a young rapper spying to be get on
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Whatever. I'm in Philly coming out of a sneaker store.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I don't remember if they asked me could he wrap
for me, or if they was already rapping.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
And you know us, we've seen the cipher. We was
going to see what it was about.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
And to this day, Cassidy is a nice in sea. Right,
So yo, we cannot connect that. I said, Yo, here's
my number again, I give him my house number. I
didn't have a set, no cell phones many people that
have cell phones.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Was big time drug dealers, a flash businessman, because you
needed to credit that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
When Biggie said phone built three g's flat, he was.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Not like it was like ten ten dollars of place.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That black phone was three grand and we don't even
know who we paid. We paid some.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
So I gave I give him my house number, right,
and we did make plans for him to come to
Stack now, so I tell him, yo, meet me at
the bus station. Porter Thory. Now I go to Porto Thory. Now,
mind you, I meet him this one. I don't know
what he looked like. So I'm at the port authority
waiting for him. He has to know what I look like.
At this time, you didn't have access to rappers. Me
(35:08):
standing at the port authority was Mayhem. So I'm there
for a while.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I left, I.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Get back to STAT. Now I'm going to crib. Anybody call,
I'm going back outside, coming back in.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Anybody call. If you was from the nineties, you knew
how I happened. You got girlfriends that way. People lost that.
So then I get him on the phone.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
I'm like, yo, bro, you got to come to STAT
all and now because I was really now the ferry,
if you ever been to the ferry, same deal.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Now this difference is I'm from STAT now.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
So it's even worse because everybody that I know is
coming up to me.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So I made the attempt to go right, I'm waiting.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Don't see him break out right, We don't link up,
and I say it was just miscommunication. He didn't have
no phone, he had to go to pay phones.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
You know what I'm saying. He didn't know where he was.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Going, So it was just a thing of that. I
didn't leave you nowhere. I had great intentions for you,
you know what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to sign you,
like why I didn't have to get give you my.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Number to even go through all of this.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
So I thought he had talent and I was trying
to give him. And I couldn't do nothing for him
really anyway but bring him to see Rizzut or bring
them the Sea r Ince and.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Maybe they can give him a beat. Other than that,
I wasn't trying to be no manager. I wasn't trying
to be a right now, we're moved.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Two years later after that, his cash actually makes it right.
I don't still don't know he's the same person. So
I bumped into him at a party. So the part
that's cap that I was like, Yo, that's cap. I
never went up to no bouncer and say yo, that's
my cousin.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I don't even do that with the Klan.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
The Klan can't say yo, I ever went to a
show that they didn't invite me to that knew I
was coming and be like, yo, tell him shots at
the back door never happened.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
There's nobody in the game that could ever say I
did that.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So that's why I felt like, Yo, that's like making
it seem like you told the struggle, like I caught.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
The vegas like, nah, then I seen you on you on.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
And I try to use you as my cousin. That's
what was cap so that ain't happening.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Was we at a party Deak and we go there
he said, Yo, it's me. I said, oh, yo, congratulations.
You know what I'm saying. You did that boom boom boom.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
But that's the truth of it, and the same thing
I spoke to Cast right, So what ended up happening
through our whole Melee, I made my video on the
Instagram and say, yo, so what ended up happening.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
It's a small world.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
One of my old g's, the Big a Ka Bear,
did a lot of time in the State Is and
DJ Finesse Rock Rough Riders and Mathematics Rough Riders, the
ol g's they know each other, so they caught wind
of it and said, nah, this can't go down.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Let's get them on the phone.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
So me, Cast and all of them was on the
phone and I told him like I told Cash right
right there, I told him the same situation. Yo, bro,
I had nothing but great intentions for you. You know
what I'm saying. But who's this bouncer that told you
that I'm your cousin?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I don't know him? So how you gonna say that? Right?
Speaker 4 (37:49):
How you gonna say that when we can't even verify that?
It made me look like yo ha haasha. When you
was on you, you shit it on him. And then
when he was on you was trying to say he
was your cousin. Da ain't happening. So I did tell him.
I said, Yo, I'm gonna speak to peace when I
get up there with Bleak, I'm gonna tell him. And also,
if you felt that way when I came home, I
(38:09):
can show you the d MS Welcome home Bull and
you have my number. If you felt I left you
like that, why didn't you say that on the phone?
And I would have told you that my piece didn't
That was the only thing. And he said, to his defense,
he said, yo, I didn't think of it. It was
that big of an issue. I didn't hold no malage
towards you. But I was just telling the story and respectfully,
and and actually what was great about it, we got
(38:29):
a banging record. I'm gonna let you hear it. You
got a record, call what's up? And and and yo,
listen man, it worked out for It worked out.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
For cast my Dog Man.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
You know, like he's a bull, he's a beast on
his beast my g you know what I mean, all
them Philly niggas, man, I fuck with all of them,
cast my Dog. So that's why when we spoke, I'm like, yo, Shot,
he ain't shit on you because I because I'm like yo,
I was.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Like, yo, doing this sh it and Shot he said
listen and listen.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That told me.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
That told me a lot about your character. That I
got to tell you to your face. That I respect
is that you didn't have to give me this this space.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You could have felt like you we.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Was going at each other on the internet.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
But Yo, this is a game we play. We already
not that there's a lot of people that's lame.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
So I say, yo, you know what. And for the
people out there that probably gonna try to post old interviews,
I love that because I always say, yo, you always
did a great job on this ship. And I never,
I never, you know, say anything that we never said
to each other.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
That's a fact, you know, like we've always been locked
in since my nigga we've been about fourteen fifteen years old,
bro like. And that's the thing people didn't see back
then was no social media, was no Mindspace, no Instagram,
no Facebook. You had to be outside. So when Ca
has told the story like, yo, you took the boat
to start dowaling it, niggas ain't answer. It was like, yeah,
(39:54):
they was in the middle of nowhere, because you know
when you get off that if you don't know about
the dollar beds.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Ghost. I wasn't even thinking that. For once, we couldn't
link up. I was outside.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
It was no, we didn't kill in the house. So
even back in fact, I was doing too much.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
And then back then my nigga being link that's the.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And this is the part, just the part that was
they said method, man, he went somewhere with methody.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Why would anybody from my crib tell you who I
left with? And they don't know you. They're not gonna
sit there and go, yo, he left with nothing.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Man.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
They're gonna be like, you know, back in the days, hello,
he's not here.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Click.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
You didn't get nothing more than he's not here. Click click, Yo,
my mom's banged doing rest in peace. Jam Master Jay
ad Puff banged on them. Thought they was lying, called
the crib like what you ain't man? Click Come tell
me yo, that was just somethigga.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Damn the days of the jerky boy jerky boys would
call you, people would prank you like they was jerky boys.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Just a fact, My g like you put in so
much work, historic and the legend and my eyes had
always been a real one from the ground up and
never changed you from nineteen ninety five ninety four when
I met you to today, you always been the same one.
You standing on minute niggas say something shot on your line. Nigga,
(41:15):
come on bro yo, like yo, So I respect that
because a lot of niggas be acting like, yeah, I
don't fuck with something no more in me. You was
coming on this platform regardless if calv that she happened
with Cassidy, if that she happened with me and you, Bro,
I don't erase chapters in my book, and you a
major chapter in my book, not only meeting you as
(41:37):
the first nigga being on and inspiring me like nigga,
I could do it. But when Jay told me the
old my nigga. You know that was supposed to be
for Homie. If Homie didn't dub me.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
That's that's a conversation. I show it to him.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I want to see this. I never dubbed you. Listen.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I would like to know who's saying, yo, that I.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Dubbed you, because I'll be doing on this.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Motherfucker ain't that way.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Sometimes it's always for the for the later, well, you
don't know where they could present, you know. I can
also understand feeling dubbed, right, So he might have felt
there could have been things he could have had me
in mind for later and been like, oh, this nigga
dumbed me.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
When I never even got it. I never even got
the core. I never even got that.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
And that's how it was, man.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
That's why because you and me a project nigga through
a project nigga through a project, they'll be like, yeah,
I fuck with son, I represent them and he ain't
got no lines.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Or or if they didn't benefit from it directly, they
wouldn't make it happen, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And Jay wasn't J, so people might have felt he.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Was J d J hyphen jay Z there. He wasn't
jigger hole none of that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Back, But I was.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I was.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I was, Honestly, it was a proud moment.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
My dude went because I ordered the book because I
was ordering it as a fan, and then I turn
it and I'm reading, I'm like what what?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
What? Was like? What the fuck on?
Speaker 4 (43:01):
But it also was it also let me know the
mark that I made. And I'm like, if the greatest rapper,
if not the greatest, one of the greatest rappers.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Viewed me in that light, then I am that nigga
g and you are.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
My nigga one hundred percent. Man. So when people say
the name Shahing, what you want them to remember first?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Oh man, what I wanted tom remember is that I
would hope that with all my success and everything that
I took, I took my people with me.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I never left you know what I'm saying. I never
left nobody alone. I never not answered my phone for
the dudes in jail I made. I visited everybody I could.
I didn't get it in return, you know what I'm saying,
a lot of things that I did, but it's not
it wasn't really for that because I didn't do it
for that. I would just like I would just like
people to know that. You know, again, nobody's zimpt for mistakes.
(44:04):
And I corrected my errors, you know what I'm saying.
That's all I strived to do is correct my errors
and be better than I was yesterday today, I mean,
be better today than I was yesterday, and all factors,
you know what I mean, And with successors, right. So
it's like people view success in a lot of ways,
you know what I mean. And I always tell people
like yo, I wasn't really coming home competing with the
(44:27):
rap game. I was competing with my dudes that was
left in the system. And when I got out on parole,
a max out on parole, I did good.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
You know what I'm saying. I'm a married man, you
know what I'm saying. The owner. You know what I'm saying.
My children is successful.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
My sons just top their top influencers right now, millionaires.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Shout out to Capri and Kane.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
And my boys young lost the young gods man.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Me my wife got a jewelry business bonded by Brazen Beauties.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
You know what I'm saying. So we out doing our thing.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
You know what I'm saying. My brother Sean, Sean breed
and beating the odds. You know what I'm saying, They
doing anything, And our whole team is just moving man,
big Malague And it's a small unit, you know what
I'm saying, within within a bigger unit.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
You know what I'm saying. And that's it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Man, That's all you need is a small circle. Man.
Long as you're all moving on one accord, man, you
can get you can move mountains one hundred percent. Man.
So what does redemption mean to you personally? With all
that being said, I know it gotta mean something.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
Oh man, It's it's just it's a reminder, right, It's
a reminder that if you don't stay on the course,
you'll be telling the same story again.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
So about you know, I'm recovering again. It's like I
just got out saying this, right, So I strive on that.
Am I perfect?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Not not at all? You know what I'm saying. We
all stumble, we all do things. But I'm I live
my life purposeful.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Now, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
I'm not the guy that's just going places without a purpose.
You know what I'm saying, So if I don't get
personally invited, chance as all you won't see me. Because
if I'm not invited, I could be treated anyway, and
I don't like to be treated anyway. I like to
be invited. So I know, hey, you come and you
expect me, and I expect to be treated a certain way.
(46:13):
So that's it, you know what I'm saying. And I
love congestions, So somebody don't give me a congestion. It's like, yo,
when people really look for you for the best interest
of you, like me. You know, I love ball, so
you always played ball. I always was a point guard
at heart. So anybody that I play, that's on my team.
When I got the ball, I'm looking at the floor
to give it to go, get back, open score, get
(46:35):
back on defense. You know what I'm saying that some
people don't get that. Some people will see you with
holes in your sneakers and because you don't ask them,
and they don't want to feel big willy for you.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Asking them that you don't need it.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I'm the type if I see you got holes in
your sneakers, we just say take a spin with me.
We're just gonna be in the mall, I'm gonna be
buying some Say, yo, cop something. If I go to
your crib, you don't got nothing to friend, I'm not
gonna say dance ball mass nigga, ain't got no food.
I'm gonna go like, I gotta get something, like, Yo.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Grab some shit for you.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
No nigga, nigga grab.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
That because at the end of the day, you are man.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
And I just wish sometimes that people that's in the
position that could just maybe have a little more empathy
and do good kindness to people and pay it for it.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Because this is funny story, right, How I learned about
paying it for it.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
It was that dunkin Donuts in the morning. What going
to get my dunkin donus? So I tell him what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Let me get large coffee such and such. Let me
get a pup cup for my dog. Right.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
So the lady goes, oh, don't worry about it. The
guy in the front paid for you.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I said, pay for me, ain't yo, He's like, no,
paying for it, And I was like, oh snap. So
that's when I did it.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Yo, the person behind me pay for them and tell
them to pay it for it. And I learned that
You never know what somebody is going through that day,
and somebody could have had to made the decision. Am
I gonna get this coffee in the bagel this morning
and skip once and go through work all hungry? I
just helped them out so now they could get their
core fee or whatever and they can get lunch.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
So I just like to pay things for it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
No, that's that's the right thing.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Man.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I got my partner fred Cee in Vegas. Man, he
always said, you're bleak one hand watched the other man.
Anybody trying to make it. Some of these niggas, some niggas.
Some of these niggas need that extra pound, man, they'll
just give them the five, give them that extra pound.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
So we we.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Definitely live by that over here. Man. So what's the
next chapter for my dog? What's what's next that people
gonna see from shot?
Speaker 3 (48:31):
What was next? Is the Rugged Shower story stage play?
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Also the memoir that's gonna come with the album because
I don't want to play the DSV game, so it's
gonna be like the old books with the library card, and.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
You know, I'm taking it.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
I'm taking it to the street because working with my
wife during retail I learned retail and I'm like, yo,
I'm playing a different game with this, and it's about.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Product and sell ash prays.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
And put my on the ash move my music and
allocate the price of my music within the ashtray and
sell ashtrays and still make more money off my music
than dudes is making them streaming.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
So it's just learning.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Process and and doing things with with products and you
know which brings that up.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Shout out, I got I got some gifts for you.
Shout out. And Municipal.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
War Burg is war my dog.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
This is the rugged Road to Recovery.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I do man that dope. Man, I love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Rugged Roll to recovery and m that's dope. It's a
couple of sizes.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Mean, appreciate you and all that.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
So y'all make sure you're tapping and support you know
what I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Also, also that's my guy man.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Shout out. The Vans. Vans also supports.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
The Rugged ros my initiatives, Cold Headwear and Redo all
all the all the you know, the businesses that support
me and the initiatives that allows me to go into
these prisons that you know, that rugged road of recoveries
in a few states or San Diego, Los Angeles, Boston,
(50:12):
New Jersey, and New York winning five states right now.
So city programs out there that want to partner holler
at me. And in doing so, I had to check
myself any right, because you want to do and help everybody.
Then I had to look at my own backyard and say, yo, damn,
I still got families struggling and things like that. So
now rugged road of recovery is now going into more
(50:36):
of being a grant, applying grants for people that doesn't work,
so small grants to help mothers with daycare. You know
what I'm saying, Like it might be a mother that's
struggling for childcare for the week. You know, it don't
have to be much. I go through daycares. Here's little
two hundred. You'll give it to a woman that's struggling,
that's behind all our things, and just I just try
to help out. And you know what I'm saying, just
(50:57):
take from what I make from music or whatever, and
just just pay it for it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
That's a fact, man, That's a blessing, my g That's
why you triple platinum. Man. You ain't ain't about record
sales it's the impact you leaving, the mark you make
in the world. Man, you made your mark and you
definitely left an impact on the world. And I had
to bring you here to give you your feelings because
you the fucking rugged child. Now the man child, my
nigga first to do it. Man, Let's give some respect,
(51:22):
like you know, Man Shahim in the fucking building, staple
Tan legend, staten allan legend, rap legend. Here, young boys
better pay some respect and do your history. Man.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Just trust me that diddy Bob likely came from a dog.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You already enough, we're here.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (51:40):
Rock solid, That's right, brother, always man, appreciate you for
pulling up man.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You know what it is. It's rock solid, my guys,
Stay solid.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yees. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit i heeart
Audio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows app, and you can follow me on any
social media platform under the name Memphis Bleach.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
You see anybody fraud in, flag him
What up, y'all? This is your main man, Memphis Bleak
right here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to rock Solid, a production of iHeart Radio and
the Black Effect Network in partnership with my guys over
at Drink Champs. You should know, good know, you should
nobody know. Yeah yeah, y'all you already know what it is.
(00:25):
Back with another exclusive rock Solid podcast. Yours truly am
greasy and I got one of my good good friends.
I mean, when I first got in this game, you know,
it's not a lot of guys that was young and
spitting like us. It was Ce's, it was Ji, it
was the Locks, you know what I mean, you had
illegal But the first one really from the projects putting
(00:49):
in that work before all of us, was my man
right here, Shahim, the motherfucking rugged child aka the Mad Child.
Let's welcome my guys, my brother, my god.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Make it easy money, yo.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You know what's so ill man?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Like before we even started to interview, Like, my g
I gotta thank you in some way for being too
hot back in the day, Like because if you think
about it, you was on so much fire that way.
Hove reached out to you.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hove never reached out to me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You can't your people. You know, niggas have representatives, you
know how that ship was back in the day. Everybody's speaking.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I always say this right because when I read
it in the book, I was, I was, I was,
I was up north when I read it, and I'm like, wow,
I never knew of this, right that yo, that when
you know, he seen me running with Caine and we
did the show and proved record that he was inspired
by by a young dude in the game making moves
that he wanted to create this record, and he said
(01:54):
he reached out to my people's but he never said who,
and nobody ever stepped up. Nobody ever stepped up, Like
know he called me and that nobody did that. So
I felt like like I felt like, damn, you know
what that that was a missed opportunity. But at the
same time, it was a blessing, right, it was a
blessing because yet and still I was the one that
(02:14):
inspired him to write it. But it was your blessing
because it was supposed to happen for me would have happened.
But I always still be wondering if if you watch
this man, who you re sauting man, because that's.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's because I always thought, you know, you was on tall.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Was always was you know me man. We grew up
in the lyrical days, right. And when I first heard
whole when he said, I'm like Prince Jeans, I bring
the assert a nigga, I thought he was an illus nigger.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Ever as well, so for me, I'm like, yo, I got.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Records with smoother hustler sugar again, right, why would I
deny hold a record that that That didn't make no sense?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But again that happened in the business.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And then I thought, I said, yo, you know what,
he probably was just trying to go to handle Is
this the right way?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And I just be like, yo, because I used to.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
See him, you know, I called him Massie and he
pulled up. I was like, Yo, you could have just said, yo, Shot,
I want you on.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
The record, and it would have been it would have
been done. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But you know it is And that's the thing a
lot of people don't know, Sha. I used to definitely
pull up in Massie. We have mutual peoples. I used
to go to staple To. That's when I first met you.
When that's when you Yeah, we was just rhyming. But
you know how it was back in the day niggas
be like Yo, it was a sight for niggas.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Was bad and there it was. No, it was nothing
like like yo, I burnt you or nothing like that.
Was like you was on.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So that even rhyme against a nigga who had a
deal that I could watch your video music box. You
gotta remember back then to a nigga. Remember this is
ninety four my name. We told him out before it
was even a thought you could be.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
On the one. I remember it was.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I don't know if it was the hard knocked life,
but it was me you Eve and we was and
Kwa Maine and we had a lobby and the dude
was trying to stand on Kwame and then we all
went in.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
On went on. You know what.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
See you know what it was member of Rest in
Peace Salad.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
They used to always try to pin us together.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That how I met you like was through him. You know,
we had mutual friends. My man kayl that was his brother.
So when I came to stat Nolan and kay Lou, Yo,
this is my dude, bleak, nobody fucking with him salace Like,
ain't nobody fucking.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
He ain't got you. You came out with the.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Honey niggas from the hood.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Man, I don't remember that write what I'm saying with them, right,
But listen, honestly.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I don't movies going out. I was like, yo, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
No, No, we down, yo, Bro, we just probably you
probably spent one verse.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I spent one verse.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It wasn't like a major sighthering it. After that, Bro,
we went to the crib. You brought me to your
crib wherever you was living, whatever building you had a
crib and at that time we were smoking. We blew
it down. No, I ain't gonna front man. I always
say I met you ghost Rizza all y'all in the
same day fucking with.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, sounds definitely stat down legend.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
N But like, take us back, because you was the
first nigga from the projects, little nigga who really looked
like us, Like you had your criss Cross, you had
your ABC. They was dope, but they wasn't project hustling
niggas holding a gun on their hip and then going
to the studio, getting busy and getting on TV. That
was the first.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think I was the first
one with a explicit lyrics sticker on their album. And
I actually had to fight through a lot of things
like the FCC, you know what I'm saying, and fight
with the labels to be able to have the content
that I was talking about because they wanted it. They
wanted manufactured, they wanted they wanted bubble gum. They wanted
(05:47):
you to be able to come with a sticker, I mean,
a piece of gum in your album type ship, you
know what I'm saying, especial. Yeah, So I had to
fight through a lot of that, you know what I'm saying.
And even with the films, I was one of the
first rappers to get into films and everything. So I
took a lot of hits for the game. And sometimes
it sucks when you take the hit because once everybody
gets past that and it becomes a norm, you honestly
(06:09):
sometime get forgotten in the process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That's a fact. So, but how old were you when
you got your first deal?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I signed the Virgin I was thirteen. I was thirteen
when I made my first deal. I signed for three fifty.
My first deal was one of the biggest deals in history,
and that was because Virgin and Warner Brothers had a
bidding war and Virgin had lost to Warner Brothers with
Tevin Campbell, and Virgin wasn't trying to lose this one.
(06:35):
But in hindsight, I should have took the deal with
Warner Brothers if I knew I was going to get
into acting. So Warner Brothers was offering an album deal
and a spot on The Fresh Prince of bel Air
because Benny Medina was the creator of the Fresh Prince
of bel Air, and Virgin was offering a production deal
with RNs.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So you know, if they took the production deal to
be able to put.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
GP Whochang on for an album deal, and you know,
that's what happened, you know what I'm saying, And I signed,
I was like yo, But I wasn't even trying to
be an actor then, because in that days, it was
like acting was being a sellout if you was in
movies or anything.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, it wasn't no role. You couldn't do no role
at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It was like you no.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
After I'm talking about in nineteen ninety three and ninety four,
there wasn't many rappers that was trying to be actors. Actually,
Big Daddy Kane took a lot of hits for doing that,
being an actor and posse and all that there was,
you know, and you know, working with Barry White and
doing big records like that in the hip hop area underground, it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Was considered like, yo, you're selling out for popular pop up.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
You was considered you know that. So Caine took a
lot of hit for us.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But before all of that, Man, your debut album, The
Rugged Child, Take me through that process? What was that?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This is before the acting this but you was thirteen.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, when I got the deal, it was it was incredible, right,
it was incredible because I was able to look out
for the family.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That was the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I remember when I first got my first check man,
we went downtown Alvey Square More and I bought my
first chain and I was and I used to wear
my cousin's hand me down, so people used to think
the Rugged Child just wore big clothes because I wanted
to those was hand me downs.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when I was able to actually buy.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
My own self something, you know what I'm saying, and
even put food in the frigerator like my friends used
to look like water and bacon, soda, My nigga, you
know what, I'm saying syrup sandwich and syrup bread like
that was my crib.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know that was dessert. You know what I'm saying,
front on the syrup sandwich ge. That ship was head. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
And you know then my mom's you know, my pops
was in prison. My moms were struggling with substance abuse
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So the block was really what raised me.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And it's like I took a lot of that that
that ship on face value, I threw people really loved me,
but it was it was the rugged child, it was
the deal, it was the music. And then when real
life happens, you know what happened, you know what I'm saying.
So that's why I big up your crew because I
was like your crew or your parents or whoever grabbed
you at that young age, true and and and and
(09:19):
made not I don'dn't say made you, but just remove
you from that, you know what I'm saying, Or you
would have been you would have went through the same
shit that I went.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Through in the project. Because mostly is just like Staples, that's.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
A fact, bro.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Like that credit I got to give all do to
Jay and his cousin be High jazz O you know
the source money. He's like, I tried, bro, I was
that little nigga wild and them niggas used to come through,
shake it up, be like you got what you got
this throwing my pack away, take the biscuit. Tell niggas, yo,
how you letting this nigga out here do this and
all that. So they was the niggas that I used
(09:51):
to have to hide from, like trying to be outside,
you know what I mean. And then growing up in hindsight,
I used to be like, Yo, them niggas is on
some bullshit. But looking back, it's like, Yo, the niggas
really saved my life.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
That's a blessing shout out to them for that, you
know what I'm saying. Me On an end, Two, it's
like my older brothers gave me the freedom that I had, right,
I always had the freedom. So it's hard, I guess
telling a young kid with the money what to do,
and I'm sure I was ignorant and get lot of ways,
you know what I'm saying as well, So maybe it
(10:25):
was a situation where it's like, Yo, you can't tell
this little nigga.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
He's gonna have to find out on his own.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And you got to think at that time, three fifty
my nigga in nineteen.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I was like ninety four of them.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
No, that's like two million my nigga. Three fifty back then,
because I think my first album there was a buck fifty.
I got forty five grand as a sign of events
and thought I was the richest nigga from Nebraska.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Man.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I used to I bought my first car in ninth grade.
I used to.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I used to literally put telephone books to sit on
with a pillow and come through like this. I take
to tell you, come through the pillow like you know
what I mean, Dudes at bus passing I was.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I was come pulling up to school right.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
But it was like the responsibility and the freedom I had,
even even to not graduating from high school. I got
my ged up north, you know what I'm saying. But
because once I figured out I'm paying for it, it
was like, yo, you're fired. I'm paying for It's my money.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
So a lot of it, irite, I contribute to some
of my like not knowing really what it was really his.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And I'm gonna say back then, a lot of iog's
they showed us how to get money. They never showed
us what to do with the money once you got it.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, and a lot of them was learning themselves.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
And then when I look at it, I was like, yo, yeah,
I was thirteen fourteen, but brothers was only twenty five,
twenty six. So it's like now that I'm grown, I'm like, yo,
I ain't even get it right until my thirties.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And after thirties you're still a kid too. But thirteen, bro,
you was a baby money outside.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Moving in clubs and clubs. Listen, if there was a
me too movement, then all these older.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Chicks would be they'd be under the gail right now
because I've definitely was slaying.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
All the old game.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
But Yo, how these kids be telling now on the
think about our teachers back in the day with major
librarians looking like.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
But you now they got the lift teachers and thek
in the class.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
When these kids be telling the bugging? But yo, yo,
did you at that age? I got It's a question
I can answer for myself, but I want to hear
from you. Did you even fully grasp like the magnitude
how big Wu Tang and yourself was at that time?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
All it's it's hard with like I always tell people
right because when they asked me.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know, how was it going, I'm like, I don't know.
They was just regular brothers like us. We always just
trying to get out of stat now and right, and
for me, the world was the world.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
But as long as I was was like known is
stat now and that was my world, so.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
It really didn't matter anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I was like, Yo, they know me in stat now
and I can go to the wave and rock, I
can get it. People know me, you know what I'm
saying like that, So that was that was the whole
That was the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
But to actually be on the radio, I'll never forget it.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Because I was on I was on a promotional tour.
Vision Records put me on a promotional tour and that's
when I actually went out with Big Daddy Kane as well,
and that's how I did the joint with me Pop
Big and off so stage that I'm coming off the air.
First of all, we didn't have like cell phones or
none of that. No, So I would call home and
(13:38):
my boy was.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like, Yo, they playing your video on B and T
and Yo, you're on the radio.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I'm like, get out of here, right. But this is
before somebody recognized me. So when I got back to
New York and I got off the airplane and people.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Was like, oh, your rugg said, let me get an
order rep.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I remember, that was the funniest thing in the world
to me. I was like, Yo, why you want me
to sign a piece of paper? I just couldn't get it.
And some people might have took that as being funny,
but I really thought it was like I didn't get it.
I was like, why gotta sign this paper, yo, Let's
just wrap it up, because that's what I was used to.
I'll see you when I see you. But that was
that was really like a big big shot.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yo, being young like you from the projects rapping. This
is before coming to age because like I said, you
was the first my g seeing you in the Rugged
Child videos, the Wu Tang videos, the Big Daddy King
video with you saw us money and Jay I ain't
gonna cap you sitting here. You my nigga. I knew
you for years. I was hate this nigga.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Think he is he think he the thug?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Its little nigga. It's little niggas out here thugging too.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And from stat now to right because Brooklyn, Brooklyn look.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Got the hoodies on the big loads, my nigga. I
used to be looking at the videos like ooh, this
niggas winning and then the Preacher's Wife. Yeah, then it
was like, my g how did that work? How did well?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
The first thing with acting came from Don't Go Chasing
Waterforce TLC video.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That was my first acting job.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I forgot you was in that video my first.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Acting job, and pretty much after that people was just calling.
That's why I always tell people, man, listen, what's for
you is for you. If they want to find you,
you could be you could be the UNI bomber living
in the stick. Somebody gonna end up knocking on your
door because that's what they want.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And you know, and it was the blessing. It was
the blessings like that, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
And I always tell people, man, coming up age, you
did a phenomenal job because I remember when I heard it,
I was like, who this this is?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Before I even know that Jay wrote it with me
and all that, and I'm like, who's this to it from?
And then they started saying, yo, that son from Marcie,
that such and such and I was like, oh, you
know what I'm saying. And then you know, Pop Jeter
K and also the embassy.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Been in if Blue and all people people they're like, yo,
that's my lee and it was just it was just
a full shirt word but it was just you know,
you moving and then it was like, you know, life,
life takes you separate different ways.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
But I definitely always remember that time.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
So even you know when we go through our ship
on the Internet and ship and we be texting, sitting
there joking and.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Last that's a fact. They don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
But anything you said on that you said to me,
and everything that I said on that I said to
you before we went to the internet with anything.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Before it was any internet, my nigga, we was out
here talking ship.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It was always on.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That nigga, I'm the nicest king with me and we
were that that's the competitive ship in New York, just
putting you as a shorty coming up watching the o
GS and then let's go back though. Man, that night,
Tupac Biggie, you came, my nigga, come on, my g
helled it down.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yo. It was such a great feeling because like at
this time, rappers wasn't being at the garden no at all.
So Big Daddy Kane was really that dude, and it
was the Budwiser superfess. So I was a miner and
it Kane had to fight for me because they didn't
want no minor because they were selling beer and stuff.
And then it came was like, yo, he has to
(17:21):
you know what I mean. But the greatest feeling was
coming out there and it was just like Yo, Stanton
Allen right, just to be able to save my burrow
and be like.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yo, Wu Tang.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
People didn't even know Whu tang really like that at
this point, you know. And it was like I didn't
know who was in the crowd until the next day
coming outside.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
He was like yo, always seeing you on the stay because.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
It wasn't like now you had to hear it or
be there in order to get the information. So if
that made it even better once I came home and
I knew people from my neighborhood seen me on that stage.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But that shit was on every mixtape. Flex used to
play that shit every night.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
My g like and all your.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Niggas in your own right respect that held it down.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
But you was what.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Fourteen on stage with these old g's and put that
like that night, my G. Let me know on some
G ship, you held it down for every little nigga
that dreamed them making it out the hood and showing
these old niggas. I could hold it down to my nigga.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
And then what I was wearing, we know, we was,
we was, we were shaping the kasu of being young dudes.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I never forget it out on a blue Columbian rain suit.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
He was that nigga back then and there, my G.
So then fucking the acting open up different doors for you.
Didn't wrap that at that time that you felt.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Oh, definitely, definitely because because after after after the TLC video,
it kind of took me from being just a rapper
into like pop world because they were huge, right, so
people will see me then and be like, oh, that's
the kid from the video and didn't even though I rapped.
So then my career took two separate careers because there's
people that didn't know.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Me from rapping but knew me for acting.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It was just like, yo, that's the kid from Original
Gangsters with Pam grid Fred Williamson. Yo, that's the kid
from the Robin Townsend showed parent hood right, But it
was also a.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Different bag than rap hell. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It was.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It was totally different.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But what was the distraction for you?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Because you caught your first bid around them that time too.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
The distraction was staying local, man, staying local and survivors
survivor's guilt, right, thinking I gotta take everybody, And in highsight,
what I should have did was packed my mother up,
moved somewhere else where she couldn't be on them drugs,
and put her in the rehab that my moms would
probably still be here today. If I was, if thank you,
(19:49):
If I was, if I was drown enough in my
mind right, because that's like taking a young kid now
and giving him life in prison for something he did
at fourteen. His brain ain't fully developed. Your brain don't
fully develop into a certain age, right, So my brain
wasn't developed like that, But I was making grown man decisions.
That's like giving a four year old of machine guns.
(20:12):
You got thirty bodies and then you throw them in
jail and say, yo, you made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And no, I didn't know what else that I was doing.
But what I knew how to do? You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And at that time, we had nothing, bro, it was
no outlets. It was not like I tell my son
all the time and it's a lot of job opportunities
for you as a kid.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Then it was a summer youth job. So that's it.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Or well, what I used to do. I used to
pack bags in front of Super bowls because you mess,
Can I help you to your car with your bags?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Or I would collect bottles or things like that, or
ask everybody in the hood.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yo, yo yo, I'll go to the store and get
my little ones and two.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
From going to the store, that's how I was able
to buy my Max Maxwell ninety minute tapes. To be
able to go to RNs and get beats and go,
I used to have to. I used to have to
give Rizza game Boy games for beats.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yo, chill me give you this game boy.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Boy. Your game Boy was legendary.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
But Rizza, you found trade beats for gay boy.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
This is what I had to do, you know what
I'm saying, because looks and everybody else that was in
the crib man was getting beats and you know, so
I had to, you know, come with something.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And that's dope, man, Like to be the youngest nigga
from Stapleton, all of y'all, because niggas think all wool
Tangers from one project. Everybody was from different projects. You
had Stapleton, park Kill Castle, will Right.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
What is well, nobody was really from that. It was
really just Stapleton and Paul Hill and Brooklyn. Because you
keep in mind, majority Jesu Master Killer ray Kun.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Is really originally from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Nah, Ray, don't tell me that from Brooklyn. Don't tell
me that.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
It's really I think it's just ghost inspected that and
even you guys originally but Rizza and the movie to
stat now like I mean, I guess they was teenagers
still but still at teenagers.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Or whatever, you know, but think about it, bro to
be that young in the crib with all of that
at that time, you know, in the middle. I've been
through it, so I know asking you this question is
like asking myself like we of course we didn't recognize
the greatness we were creating. We just was creating. But
looking back, what advice would you give your younger self? Man?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Oh Man, I would definitely say I would definitely say
education is key.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
If I could go back, I would have definitely went
to college. I would have definitely had those experiences as
a kid, right because that would have gave me the structure,
you know what I'm saying, to be able to maneuver
in this business.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And then by doing right business, then I think my
life would have turned out a little different. As far
as what I went through. I don't regret anything because
the tools.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That it gave me. That now that I'm able to going.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
To these prisons and talk to these youth from experiences
and really give it to them real and be like yo.
And I'm not one that just talks about it. I'm
like yo, listen, gee, this is what I walked, this
is what I had, this this is what I left,
and now I'm still alive.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
And this is why this is what I get my
get back up.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
This what feels good to me when I save ten
kids from not going to prison, and when I give
them the game and teach them, you know what I'm saying.
But it's all about the seeds that's playing it, you
know what I mean. And I would just tell my
youngest self. You know what I'm saying, It'll be all
right no matter what things happen for you, not to you.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
And that's really it. And you know what I'm saying.
And you know, always always stay focused, always.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Stay fact man. Being the youngest, like I said, man,
you inspired a lot of us. Man, I'm not gonna
sit here and act like I wasn't inspired. You show
me that I can do it, you know what I mean? You,
like I said, the criss Crosses, the ABC's, the illegal youngsters,
the youngsters, all the Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Caught that the music was PG.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah it was. But you came out the first with
the hood the gritty, the hoodies on that woo vibe. Like,
I feel like you don't get enough credit for being
the spark of this generation of the young guys that
came up, because remember you had the bow Wows. After
that you had Little Romeo, you know what I mean.
(24:28):
Then you got all the young niggas. Now the game
is ran by young niggas, and like I said, you
was the first. So do you feel you get credit
for being like, you know what I mean, a generational,
generational gem man?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Always I was always told this right, You don't have
to tell your story.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
People are telling for you when it's real. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I think it's not just me, our history in general,
people don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So who am I to say? Yo, they don't know me,
they don't know Malcolm X, they don't know Martin Luther King,
they don't know the.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Grace that really made it possible for us to have freedom.
So listen, it's so good.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
One day they will know, and when they do know,
then they could do better.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
That's a fact, man, that your time away you know
what I mean. I don't like talking about being like, Yo,
you was incarcerated all several times, like your time away
from music? You know what I'm saying, What did that
teach you about yourself?
Speaker 4 (25:22):
It made it was like it was like being in
themselves was like watching the video tape play back. And
when I watched that tape, I seen the errors that
I made, and I said, all I can do is
correct them and do better next time. Like you know
what I'm saying, Nobody is exempt for making mistakes.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
We all make them. It's what you do with them after.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
There's nobody in this business could be like yo, I
did terrible business with them, or yo, I started making
wax stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It was just life.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I became I became a liability in some ways, you
know what I'm saying. And only right, right, you know
what I'm saying when you're dealing with business, and it's like, Yo,
this kid today that we investing in tomorrow he might
be in project and he called the gun or be
in the shootout and be in the students stuff. Right,
why would you invest in that? So it was it
was a lot of that. So yo, listen, man again,
(26:11):
like I wouldn't have it no other way, you know
what I'm saying, Because now it's a testament and my
story could be used to as a prevention and a
cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And and that's and that's what it's for.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Like when you first came home, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Like I know, when you first come home, the first
thing you want to do is get back the family,
get back your kids, get back there, y'all gonna get
back on the ground. But one thing I respect that
you did, man, is start your foundation the rugged road,
the recovery.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, I respect that.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That's that's really that's just and great movement you created.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Because I said to myself, I want to be what
I needed. You know what I'm saying, I want to
be what I really needed. And I know these youth
needed and they don't want to hear it from somebody
that really that really can't tell them, like, yo, be
my moms. My mom's in two state bits. I was
sixteen years old, taking care of old house, going up
to Bedford Hills to visit my moms, going up to
(27:03):
Clinton to visit my pops. But running a household by
myself with a bunch of friends in the house, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
And it's like that was just my reality, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
And on the forefront, people just see the music and
they see that and they think you fumbling the music.
But when you're dealing with real life at the same time,
they don't see that of a half.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So it was just like I was just trying to
navigate through life, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Like with that being said, like you know, it's a
lot of young stars in the game now, and you
know a lot of these young guys, it's got turbulence
and they and they track record right now. Man, you
know what I'm saying. So, do you feel like the
industry do enough to protect young stars?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's not for that. Again, it's a business. It's a business.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
In a minute that your business ain't making the money,
that's what you'll be to.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
The side and trying to figure it out life, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And I tell you, holler at me man, all of
them out there, man, holler at me man. And it's
not for no bread or nothing, because I do this
book for my heart, you know what I'm saying. So
if there's any a time I don't feel shy, hit
me on the DM, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give
you the game. I'm gonna give it to you for
what it is. You might not like it, but it's
just the truth.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Like Yo, And you know what I'm saying. Like being
from New York, we always consider statn al in the
Fifth Borough.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah, well sometimes sometimes it gives a long houran I'm
just saying, Joe saying, time we get left out, we.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Got That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Do you feel like stant Nell to get enough credit
for the impact y'all contributed to hip hop? Because you
was the first shorty Wu Tang was the first project nigga.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of grace
that come from stat Now. And I get left out
because you have four some d's who was one of
the biggest.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
State Don't rock the boat.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
You know what I'm saying, don't rock the boat.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Then after them, you had you had the US. Then
you had King just King Justice and he was.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The first nigga with night style, pending, no front, no cat.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Now bond click. You had a e mom from stat
now and uh who else? Uh?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What's her name? Melissa Alano?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yet mac wows that's my dog.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I got a lot of got a lot of a
lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Great Yes, yes, what's my dog my other dog from
the wire man.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Come on, man, we got hell we got a little
little rainy uh from power Yo.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
But hold on, man, let's get back to my man
hot song man. The nigga invited me like, yo, bleak,
I got the club and stand there and pull up.
You know, I'm throwing my birthday party. I'm like, I'm
a pull up. He's like, Yo, it's it's right there
in the hood, Bros.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We're good I'm like, don't worry about we good cool.
I pull up my nigga. This nigga went to the store.
You know how the store has like the story shared
with the opening store on the back. His club was
down there, so I'm like, Yo, now my nigga, we
gotta walk in. So he opened the joint. We walked
down and it's a real club. DJ chicks down there.
(30:06):
Bodyes everything. Yo. Broke my mind for yo.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Because they was doing for Saint Paul's. It's like it
looked like apartment and you go in. You got down.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Joe, this ship was insane. Nigga bought me through the
store and ship, and I'm like, Joe, I never with him.
I've been seeing corner stores my whole life. I see
them open that, but they don't let us in there.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah, because I never really had clubs. We really just
had like balls and little speakeasies. You know what I'm
saying that that club.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yo, I definitely got a lot of man like you
know what I mean, like hip hop today? Man, you
know what I'm saying. Looking back Wu Tang legacy, everything
y'all contributed because the Woo legacy, I feel like you
was part of that. You know what I mean that
they can't. I'm not gonna leave you out of that
(30:56):
because when they first started, you was right there with
all of them, making the same exact hits as them.
You just had a little bit of turbulent in your
life the way people might forget, but to me, you
was always a part of that legacy. Man, Like, do
you feel like what y'all contributed to the game ever
get misunderstood? Or do you feel like it's larger than
(31:19):
you ever?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Listen? Listen, WU Tang is nominated to be in the
rock Rock Rock? What's that rock? Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Rock?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And don't get that? So when they make it, I
make it. That's what I'm saying. It's all good. Like
you know what I'm saying. Am I gonna be on
the stage and probably not? You know what I'm saying.
I always tell people this just three mood sangs. You
know what I'm saying? Who saying? The corporation?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
You may know as a business that yo, if you
ain't doing the business with the corporation, ain't no really
room for you.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
And it's the group.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Forty W Tang numbers, but for life, that's a fact, man,
and I respect that y'all all still show love because
I just seen you with meth you know, rest in
peace to the you know, I mean, I've seen you
with ghost Red And that's that's dope, man, Because you know,
a lot of people forget where they come from when
they say you get.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Success, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And these is fucking giant and success and they still
fuck with where they come from.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
But like I say, it's different relationships, right, So you
have although you have all the success, like for instance,
you lose a loved one that everybody knows. You got
to come back to the bottom, right, and you gotta
be with your peoples. So if you can't come back
home what you really got, you really don't got nothing.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's a fact. If you can't go back, you ain't
got nothing, man.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
But yeah, nah, the Klan to Klan everybody man, you know.
And and with the Internet sometime, with it being so
much music out there, these people still pop the brown hornet,
you know what I'm saying, gp Wull. That's all the
dudes that still they still everybody's still making music, but
it's just so much.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
That it gets lost in it.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And the Klan being so big, like even for me,
Like I've made a lot of accomplishments, but being.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Under the Klan, it gets swallowed. You could get swallowed.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I know. You know you can make a hit right
now and they're gonna be like, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
A fact, bro. It's like it's like holding a candle
to the sun, my nigger. I've been dealing with that
ship my whole life, so I totally agree, Like do
you feel I know you one that we spoke because
you hit me? You know, I have my dog shout out,
Cassidy shot my dog up here, so this episode and
shot hit me like bleak. I gotta niggas it ain't
(33:28):
happened like that. I ain't leave the dog like that.
And I'm like, shah, he didn't shit on.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You, No he didn't. He did not ship on me.
But this is right.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
It's like what they call that suggestive, suggestive conversation and
leading right.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So first, right, because it was two parts of this story.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
He said, he said, he said, I left him stranded,
you called, you told him come to New York, and
then answer the fune.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
First, First, we have to be together for me to
leave you. So I didn't leave you nowhere we never linked.
So I'm gonna take you back to nineteen ninety four.
Now you know who I am in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Five, right already, I'm gonna super lit.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Cassidy was a young rapper spying to be get on
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Whatever. I'm in Philly coming out of a sneaker store.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I don't remember if they asked me could he wrap
for me, or if they was already rapping.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
And you know us, we've seen the cipher. We was
going to see what it was about.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
And to this day, Cassidy is a nice in sea. Right,
So yo, we cannot connect that. I said, Yo, here's
my number again, I give him my house number. I
didn't have a set, no cell phones many people that
have cell phones.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Was big time drug dealers, a flash businessman, because you
needed to credit that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
When Biggie said phone built three g's flat, he was.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Not like it was like ten ten dollars of place.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That black phone was three grand and we don't even
know who we paid. We paid some.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
So I gave I give him my house number, right,
and we did make plans for him to come to
Stack now, so I tell him, yo, meet me at
the bus station. Porter Thory. Now I go to Porto Thory. Now,
mind you, I meet him this one. I don't know
what he looked like. So I'm at the port authority
waiting for him. He has to know what I look like.
At this time, you didn't have access to rappers. Me
(35:08):
standing at the port authority was Mayhem. So I'm there
for a while.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I left, I.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Get back to STAT. Now I'm going to crib. Anybody call,
I'm going back outside, coming back in.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Anybody call. If you was from the nineties, you knew
how I happened. You got girlfriends that way. People lost that.
So then I get him on the phone.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
I'm like, yo, bro, you got to come to STAT
all and now because I was really now the ferry,
if you ever been to the ferry, same deal.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Now this difference is I'm from STAT now.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
So it's even worse because everybody that I know is
coming up to me.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So I made the attempt to go right, I'm waiting.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Don't see him break out right, We don't link up,
and I say it was just miscommunication. He didn't have
no phone, he had to go to pay phones.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
You know what I'm saying. He didn't know where he was.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Going, So it was just a thing of that. I
didn't leave you nowhere. I had great intentions for you,
you know what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to sign you,
like why I didn't have to get give you my.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Number to even go through all of this.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
So I thought he had talent and I was trying
to give him. And I couldn't do nothing for him
really anyway but bring him to see Rizzut or bring
them the Sea r Ince and.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Maybe they can give him a beat. Other than that,
I wasn't trying to be no manager. I wasn't trying
to be a right now, we're moved.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Two years later after that, his cash actually makes it right.
I don't still don't know he's the same person. So
I bumped into him at a party. So the part
that's cap that I was like, Yo, that's cap. I
never went up to no bouncer and say yo, that's
my cousin.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I don't even do that with the Klan.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
The Klan can't say yo, I ever went to a
show that they didn't invite me to that knew I
was coming and be like, yo, tell him shots at
the back door never happened.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
There's nobody in the game that could ever say I
did that.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So that's why I felt like, Yo, that's like making
it seem like you told the struggle, like I caught.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
The vegas like, nah, then I seen you on you on.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
And I try to use you as my cousin. That's
what was cap so that ain't happening.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Was we at a party Deak and we go there
he said, Yo, it's me. I said, oh, yo, congratulations.
You know what I'm saying. You did that boom boom boom.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
But that's the truth of it, and the same thing
I spoke to Cast right, So what ended up happening
through our whole Melee, I made my video on the
Instagram and say, yo, so what ended up happening.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
It's a small world.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
One of my old g's, the Big a Ka Bear,
did a lot of time in the State Is and
DJ Finesse Rock Rough Riders and Mathematics Rough Riders, the
ol g's they know each other, so they caught wind
of it and said, nah, this can't go down.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Let's get them on the phone.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
So me, Cast and all of them was on the
phone and I told him like I told Cash right
right there, I told him the same situation. Yo, bro,
I had nothing but great intentions for you. You know
what I'm saying. But who's this bouncer that told you
that I'm your cousin?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I don't know him? So how you gonna say that? Right?
Speaker 4 (37:49):
How you gonna say that when we can't even verify that?
It made me look like yo ha haasha. When you
was on you, you shit it on him. And then
when he was on you was trying to say he
was your cousin. Da ain't happening. So I did tell him.
I said, Yo, I'm gonna speak to peace when I
get up there with Bleak, I'm gonna tell him. And also,
if you felt that way when I came home, I
(38:09):
can show you the d MS Welcome home Bull and
you have my number. If you felt I left you
like that, why didn't you say that on the phone?
And I would have told you that my piece didn't
That was the only thing. And he said, to his defense,
he said, yo, I didn't think of it. It was
that big of an issue. I didn't hold no malage
towards you. But I was just telling the story and respectfully,
and and actually what was great about it, we got
(38:29):
a banging record. I'm gonna let you hear it. You
got a record, call what's up? And and and yo,
listen man, it worked out for It worked out.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
For cast my Dog Man.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
You know, like he's a bull, he's a beast on
his beast my g you know what I mean, all
them Philly niggas, man, I fuck with all of them,
cast my Dog. So that's why when we spoke, I'm like, yo, Shot,
he ain't shit on you because I because I'm like yo,
I was.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Like, yo, doing this sh it and Shot he said
listen and listen.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That told me.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
That told me a lot about your character. That I
got to tell you to your face. That I respect
is that you didn't have to give me this this space.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You could have felt like you we.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Was going at each other on the internet.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
But Yo, this is a game we play. We already
not that there's a lot of people that's lame.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
So I say, yo, you know what. And for the
people out there that probably gonna try to post old interviews,
I love that because I always say, yo, you always
did a great job on this ship. And I never,
I never, you know, say anything that we never said
to each other.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
That's a fact, you know, like we've always been locked
in since my nigga we've been about fourteen fifteen years old,
bro like. And that's the thing people didn't see back
then was no social media, was no Mindspace, no Instagram,
no Facebook. You had to be outside. So when Ca
has told the story like, yo, you took the boat
to start dowaling it, niggas ain't answer. It was like, yeah,
(39:54):
they was in the middle of nowhere, because you know
when you get off that if you don't know about
the dollar beds.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Ghost. I wasn't even thinking that. For once, we couldn't
link up. I was outside.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
It was no, we didn't kill in the house. So
even back in fact, I was doing too much.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
And then back then my nigga being link that's the.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And this is the part, just the part that was
they said method, man, he went somewhere with methody.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Why would anybody from my crib tell you who I
left with? And they don't know you. They're not gonna
sit there and go, yo, he left with nothing.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Man.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
They're gonna be like, you know, back in the days, hello,
he's not here.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Click.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
You didn't get nothing more than he's not here. Click click, Yo,
my mom's banged doing rest in peace. Jam Master Jay
ad Puff banged on them. Thought they was lying, called
the crib like what you ain't man? Click Come tell
me yo, that was just somethigga.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Damn the days of the jerky boy jerky boys would
call you, people would prank you like they was jerky boys.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Just a fact, My g like you put in so
much work, historic and the legend and my eyes had
always been a real one from the ground up and
never changed you from nineteen ninety five ninety four when
I met you to today, you always been the same one.
You standing on minute niggas say something shot on your line. Nigga,
(41:15):
come on bro yo, like yo, So I respect that
because a lot of niggas be acting like, yeah, I
don't fuck with something no more in me. You was
coming on this platform regardless if calv that she happened
with Cassidy, if that she happened with me and you, Bro,
I don't erase chapters in my book, and you a
major chapter in my book, not only meeting you as
(41:37):
the first nigga being on and inspiring me like nigga,
I could do it. But when Jay told me the
old my nigga. You know that was supposed to be
for Homie. If Homie didn't dub me.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
That's that's a conversation. I show it to him.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I want to see this. I never dubbed you. Listen.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I would like to know who's saying, yo, that I.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Dubbed you, because I'll be doing on this.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Motherfucker ain't that way.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Sometimes it's always for the for the later, well, you
don't know where they could present, you know. I can
also understand feeling dubbed, right, So he might have felt
there could have been things he could have had me
in mind for later and been like, oh, this nigga
dumbed me.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
When I never even got it. I never even got
the core. I never even got that.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
And that's how it was, man.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
That's why because you and me a project nigga through
a project nigga through a project, they'll be like, yeah,
I fuck with son, I represent them and he ain't
got no lines.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Or or if they didn't benefit from it directly, they
wouldn't make it happen, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And Jay wasn't J, so people might have felt he.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Was J d J hyphen jay Z there. He wasn't
jigger hole none of that.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Back, But I was.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I was.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I was, Honestly, it was a proud moment.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
My dude went because I ordered the book because I
was ordering it as a fan, and then I turn
it and I'm reading, I'm like what what?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
What? Was like? What the fuck on?
Speaker 4 (43:01):
But it also was it also let me know the
mark that I made. And I'm like, if the greatest rapper,
if not the greatest, one of the greatest rappers.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Viewed me in that light, then I am that nigga
g and you are.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
My nigga one hundred percent. Man. So when people say
the name Shahing, what you want them to remember first?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Oh man, what I wanted tom remember is that I
would hope that with all my success and everything that
I took, I took my people with me.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I never left you know what I'm saying. I never
left nobody alone. I never not answered my phone for
the dudes in jail I made. I visited everybody I could.
I didn't get it in return, you know what I'm saying,
a lot of things that I did, but it's not
it wasn't really for that because I didn't do it
for that. I would just like I would just like
people to know that. You know, again, nobody's zimpt for mistakes.
(44:04):
And I corrected my errors, you know what I'm saying.
That's all I strived to do is correct my errors
and be better than I was yesterday today, I mean,
be better today than I was yesterday, and all factors,
you know what I mean, And with successors, right. So
it's like people view success in a lot of ways,
you know what I mean. And I always tell people
like yo, I wasn't really coming home competing with the
(44:27):
rap game. I was competing with my dudes that was
left in the system. And when I got out on parole,
a max out on parole, I did good.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
You know what I'm saying. I'm a married man, you
know what I'm saying. The owner. You know what I'm saying.
My children is successful.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
My sons just top their top influencers right now, millionaires.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Shout out to Capri and Kane.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
And my boys young lost the young gods man.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Me my wife got a jewelry business bonded by Brazen Beauties.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
You know what I'm saying. So we out doing our thing.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
You know what I'm saying. My brother Sean, Sean breed
and beating the odds. You know what I'm saying, They
doing anything, And our whole team is just moving man,
big Malague And it's a small unit, you know what
I'm saying, within within a bigger unit.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
You know what I'm saying. And that's it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Man, That's all you need is a small circle. Man.
Long as you're all moving on one accord, man, you
can get you can move mountains one hundred percent. Man.
So what does redemption mean to you personally? With all
that being said, I know it gotta mean something.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
Oh man, It's it's just it's a reminder, right, It's
a reminder that if you don't stay on the course,
you'll be telling the same story again.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
So about you know, I'm recovering again. It's like I
just got out saying this, right, So I strive on that.
Am I perfect?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Not not at all? You know what I'm saying. We
all stumble, we all do things. But I'm I live
my life purposeful.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Now, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
I'm not the guy that's just going places without a purpose.
You know what I'm saying, So if I don't get
personally invited, chance as all you won't see me. Because
if I'm not invited, I could be treated anyway, and
I don't like to be treated anyway. I like to
be invited. So I know, hey, you come and you
expect me, and I expect to be treated a certain way.
(46:13):
So that's it, you know what I'm saying. And I
love congestions, So somebody don't give me a congestion. It's like, yo,
when people really look for you for the best interest
of you, like me. You know, I love ball, so
you always played ball. I always was a point guard
at heart. So anybody that I play, that's on my team.
When I got the ball, I'm looking at the floor
to give it to go, get back, open score, get
(46:35):
back on defense. You know what I'm saying that some
people don't get that. Some people will see you with
holes in your sneakers and because you don't ask them,
and they don't want to feel big willy for you.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Asking them that you don't need it.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I'm the type if I see you got holes in
your sneakers, we just say take a spin with me.
We're just gonna be in the mall, I'm gonna be
buying some Say, yo, cop something. If I go to
your crib, you don't got nothing to friend, I'm not
gonna say dance ball mass nigga, ain't got no food.
I'm gonna go like, I gotta get something, like, Yo.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Grab some shit for you.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
No nigga, nigga grab.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
That because at the end of the day, you are man.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
And I just wish sometimes that people that's in the
position that could just maybe have a little more empathy
and do good kindness to people and pay it for it.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Because this is funny story, right, How I learned about
paying it for it.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
It was that dunkin Donuts in the morning. What going
to get my dunkin donus? So I tell him what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Let me get large coffee such and such. Let me
get a pup cup for my dog. Right.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
So the lady goes, oh, don't worry about it. The
guy in the front paid for you.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I said, pay for me, ain't yo, He's like, no,
paying for it, And I was like, oh snap. So
that's when I did it.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Yo, the person behind me pay for them and tell
them to pay it for it. And I learned that
You never know what somebody is going through that day,
and somebody could have had to made the decision. Am
I gonna get this coffee in the bagel this morning
and skip once and go through work all hungry? I
just helped them out so now they could get their
core fee or whatever and they can get lunch.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
So I just like to pay things for it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
No, that's that's the right thing.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Man.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I got my partner fred Cee in Vegas. Man, he
always said, you're bleak one hand watched the other man.
Anybody trying to make it. Some of these niggas, some niggas.
Some of these niggas need that extra pound, man, they'll
just give them the five, give them that extra pound.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
So we we.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Definitely live by that over here. Man. So what's the
next chapter for my dog? What's what's next that people
gonna see from shot?
Speaker 3 (48:31):
What was next? Is the Rugged Shower story stage play?
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Also the memoir that's gonna come with the album because
I don't want to play the DSV game, so it's
gonna be like the old books with the library card, and.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
You know, I'm taking it.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
I'm taking it to the street because working with my
wife during retail I learned retail and I'm like, yo,
I'm playing a different game with this, and it's about.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Product and sell ash prays.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
And put my on the ash move my music and
allocate the price of my music within the ashtray and
sell ashtrays and still make more money off my music
than dudes is making them streaming.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
So it's just learning.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Process and and doing things with with products and you
know which brings that up.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Shout out, I got I got some gifts for you.
Shout out. And Municipal.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
War Burg is war my dog.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
This is the rugged Road to Recovery.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I do man that dope. Man, I love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Rugged Roll to recovery and m that's dope. It's a
couple of sizes.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Mean, appreciate you and all that.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
So y'all make sure you're tapping and support you know
what I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Also, also that's my guy man.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Shout out. The Vans. Vans also supports.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
The Rugged ros my initiatives, Cold Headwear and Redo all
all the all the you know, the businesses that support
me and the initiatives that allows me to go into
these prisons that you know, that rugged road of recoveries
in a few states or San Diego, Los Angeles, Boston,
(50:12):
New Jersey, and New York winning five states right now.
So city programs out there that want to partner holler
at me. And in doing so, I had to check
myself any right, because you want to do and help everybody.
Then I had to look at my own backyard and say, yo, damn,
I still got families struggling and things like that. So
now rugged road of recovery is now going into more
(50:36):
of being a grant, applying grants for people that doesn't work,
so small grants to help mothers with daycare. You know
what I'm saying, Like it might be a mother that's
struggling for childcare for the week. You know, it don't
have to be much. I go through daycares. Here's little
two hundred. You'll give it to a woman that's struggling,
that's behind all our things, and just I just try
to help out. And you know what I'm saying, just
(50:57):
take from what I make from music or whatever, and
just just pay it for it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
That's a fact, man, That's a blessing, my g That's
why you triple platinum. Man. You ain't ain't about record
sales it's the impact you leaving, the mark you make
in the world. Man, you made your mark and you
definitely left an impact on the world. And I had
to bring you here to give you your feelings because
you the fucking rugged child. Now the man child, my
nigga first to do it. Man, Let's give some respect,
(51:22):
like you know, Man Shahim in the fucking building, staple
Tan legend, staten allan legend, rap legend. Here, young boys
better pay some respect and do your history. Man.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Just trust me that diddy Bob likely came from a dog.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You already enough, we're here.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (51:40):
Rock solid, That's right, brother, always man, appreciate you for
pulling up man.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You know what it is. It's rock solid, my guys,
Stay solid.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yees. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit i heeart
Audio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows app, and you can follow me on any
social media platform under the name Memphis Bleach.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
You see anybody fraud in, flag him
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