Johnny Hollman, Sr. Bodycam Video Released, NY's Sexual Assault Cases, Post-Thanksgiving Fitness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:59):
Inst Today's Monday Every Much twenty seven, twenty twenty three

(01:20):
coming up on Roland Martin not a Filter and streaming
live of the Black Star Network. The Fulton Canyada's office
released a bodycam video of the August tenth encounter between
a black sixty two year old deacon who was killed
while in the custody of Atlanta police. Will show you
what led up to the fatal tasing of Johnny Homan
Senior and talked with his daughter and the family attorney.

(01:42):
Texas jury gives a black man life in prison for
the death of a police detective executing a no knock warrant.
He wasn't standing his ground, That's what they said. Wait
until we share with you the details of this bizarre case.
Thousands of sexual assault cases are filed in New York

(02:03):
to beat the state's Adults of IRUs Act deadline. I'll
talk to an attorney about the law that allows people
to follow lawsuit against their alleged abusers, regardless of how
long ago it took place. Also in our Fit Lived
Wind segment, how to get back on track after the

(02:24):
big thanks Giving fiesta. Do you need a detox Well,
Kodie Mack will be here in the studio with some
helpful health tips. It's time to bring the funk a
rolling mark unfiltered, all the Black sat network.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Let's comes it.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Whatever it is he's got factified.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
Please, he's right on top and best believe he's knowing.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
Funks Loston News to politics, just bunks.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
He's it's.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
He's b's real.

Speaker 7 (03:15):
The question, No, he's roven.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
On August tenth, Deacon Johnny Hoven Senior call Atlanta police
for help after a minor traffic accident. By the end
of the encounter, he was dead after being tased by
now fire Officer Kieran Kimbro. The Fullton County Days Office
released the body cam footage of the interaction between Kimbro
and Deacon Holman. The video were about to show you.

(03:52):
It's obviously tough to watch, so you are easily triggered.
Now is the time to walk away? Uh? This video
was released late last week.

Speaker 8 (04:08):
Alright, a case number for you. All right, I did
find you a fault in the.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Ima great light, My life was green.

Speaker 8 (04:18):
You cut your turn short.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, no, it didn't turn it.

Speaker 9 (04:20):
I couldn't turn white with it.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
You kept coming here at me. It was my phone.

Speaker 8 (04:25):
Why are you screaming at me? I'm not screaming.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
I'mnna telling it was not my fuck you're bringing into
my drup.

Speaker 8 (04:29):
Okay, you see right right here?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
All right?

Speaker 8 (04:32):
So I need you to sign this ticket right here
on the X.

Speaker 10 (04:36):
You fought back here.

Speaker 8 (04:40):
Okay, I'll get my.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Sergeant for it.

Speaker 11 (04:42):
But you're still gonna sign this ticket. Be fucked up,
that's right, but you're gonna sign this.

Speaker 8 (04:47):
Ticket right here before I get my sergeant out here. Okay,
you're gonna sign this ticket. I'm gonna take you to jail.

Speaker 11 (04:53):
So you got a court dated the fourth October twenty
twenty three at eight o'clock.

Speaker 8 (04:57):
All right, it's not a state of admission or guilt.

Speaker 12 (04:59):
Just stay that.

Speaker 8 (05:00):
You plan on coming to court of pan the fine beforehand.
You can come to court.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
You can come to court.

Speaker 10 (05:05):
And I.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Didn't do nothing.

Speaker 8 (05:10):
When you're screaming at I told you once lower your voice.
You're not You're not gonna scream at me.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
My boss is heaven.

Speaker 11 (05:17):
You understand what I'm telling you. Now, you're gonna sign
this ticket. I'm gonna take you to jail. I suggest
you signed the ticket. Then you can talk to my
sergeant or whoever you want to talk to, your priest,
your wife.

Speaker 8 (05:29):
I don't care. But you're gonna sign it right here.
Here you go, sir.

Speaker 11 (05:40):
I'm gonna ask you one more time, sign the ticket.

Speaker 8 (05:45):
Sign the ticket, Sign the ticket, Sign the ticket. I'm
just trying to make me say sign the ticket. I trying.

Speaker 13 (05:54):
I'm trying to.

Speaker 8 (05:55):
I've been trying the ticket, signed the ticket. I cannot sign.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Take look at that nothing.

Speaker 8 (06:00):
Come there acting crazy.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
I'm not doing nothing.

Speaker 14 (06:03):
Mean, I'm not right here.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
I'm right here there.

Speaker 9 (06:06):
My mother I red hook man.

Speaker 8 (06:08):
All right, I'm on another unit.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's on the ground. I'm feel signing.

Speaker 10 (06:20):
How's you going like that?

Speaker 14 (06:22):
I ain't doing nothing.

Speaker 12 (06:24):
I'm i ain't doing Why Why do you hurt me
like this?

Speaker 7 (06:28):
Man?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm old, man, I'm old, I'm not right away. Now
you come sign the teck it.

Speaker 10 (06:34):
I'm gonna I'm gonna telling you.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Put arms on your back, Put arms on your back,
arms behind your back.

Speaker 10 (06:41):
You know why, making no real bad put your hair.
I'm making no good bad figure. I'm your hell. I'm
geting your help.

Speaker 14 (06:52):
He looks around.

Speaker 7 (06:55):
Your hand, my hand back your.

Speaker 8 (06:59):
Good chad you back?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Okay, pay, put your hands by your back. Okay, pray, okay, pray.

Speaker 14 (07:06):
Put your head.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
Whind your back, put your hands hands your back.

Speaker 14 (07:14):
I can't.

Speaker 8 (07:14):
I'm gonna tell your ass one more time.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Put your hands by your back.

Speaker 10 (07:19):
Don't help me, help me. Let's come an.

Speaker 13 (07:29):
Here.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Don't tease me.

Speaker 8 (07:34):
Put your hands while your back.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Okay, now, okay, can pray?

Speaker 5 (07:38):
Okay, call me.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Put your an while your back, put your n while
your back.

Speaker 12 (07:46):
Now, put your head by your back.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Put your ads while you're back.

Speaker 7 (07:58):
Now are you coming?

Speaker 10 (08:06):
Moss? Grow?

Speaker 8 (08:19):
Lean my cup? So we get my cup? And this
sear is so long.

Speaker 14 (08:22):
I'm the guy.

Speaker 10 (08:22):
Wouldn't life alright?

Speaker 12 (08:23):
If you got someone with them slow down until they
get a five nine right away.

Speaker 8 (08:29):
Where you live.

Speaker 14 (08:30):
But this is just a ole man that see people.

Speaker 12 (08:41):
Come and please went there, uh with a render driver
from them.

Speaker 8 (08:48):
Ship one for radio No no go ahead, lout that
twenty two starting supervisor. Pretty use of force, please start
grady as well?

Speaker 12 (09:11):
Right The comment, oh, hobother night you want to como?

Speaker 8 (09:31):
That's something man, Ray, step it up. This guy's bleeding
pretty bad.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Me.

Speaker 8 (09:52):
Fuck man, right, just afforded one a fart.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Just that that's it?

Speaker 8 (09:57):
What about what do huh? Huh? What up on one?
Two cars? He hit that car up there?

Speaker 11 (10:05):
I told him, sign a ticket, you saw funny, yeah.

Speaker 12 (10:24):
Four the ninety one to a leven o four. Give
him a give him a sturnamout, Hey.

Speaker 8 (10:32):
Wake up, am I think he passed out on me.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Wake up.

Speaker 8 (10:59):
M I told him sign ticket. Start doing all that.
I'm not sign ticket. I'm like, dude, just sign a ticket.

Speaker 10 (11:13):
It's fine.

Speaker 8 (11:15):
You know, you can talk to whatever you need to after.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
The company of the manufacturer the taser used is challenging.
The Fulton County Medical Examiner's report on Holdman's death and
autopsy concluded Holman's death was a homicide and the taser
played a role in that death. Family attorney Boolee mel
Davis and Johnny Holman's daughter, Amitra Holdman, joined us down
from Atlanta. Certainly, uh sorry, you had to watch that

(11:43):
that video again.

Speaker 14 (11:46):
It is what I'm.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
What is still puzzling here, Ametra, which I mean, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry that it's a minor traffic accident and we
do these stories all the time. And it is stunning
and shocking to me how often a simple traffic accident

(12:16):
turns into the death of a black motorist. And what
also stood out for me is just the impatience and
the lack of compassion. If this former cop had for
your father.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Your thoughts, so my thoughts.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
I'm angry, I'm mad like that.

Speaker 14 (12:46):
It's my daddy, you know.

Speaker 15 (12:48):
And to see him even trying to show this officer respect.
He even called him sir, and he didn't even show
that kind of respect to him. He didn't have no compassion,
you know, for him at all. You know, he didn't
even think as if he buried human life. He was
so angry and he was so outraged. He was tasting

(13:11):
my daddy, even after you handcuffed him, even after he
was laying down, and he still couldn't.

Speaker 14 (13:17):
Move, you know.

Speaker 15 (13:19):
And a lot of times, you know, people don't know
what it feels like when you're asking and aking no.
I have asthma, My siblings them too. You can't breathe
your body going to the streets. It's nothing that you
can do about it. So a lot of times you
telling him to put his hand behind his back, he
still was no threat his hands were stretched out, he

(13:40):
asking him to help him, he telling him he even
at one point holds onto him because he can't breathe,
and for you to continue to taste him and to.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Punch him like that's great, rinch.

Speaker 15 (13:56):
You know what that make us feel, like like people
don't understanding it, and like that was all that we
was trying to tell them from the beginning. Our father
didn't do anything wrong. He didn't deserve that at all
in the narrative that they put.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
Out about him.

Speaker 16 (14:15):
They still have not changed that narrative, even after they
watched this video knowing that this guy, it's twenty three
year old black Tyn kimbro APD officer.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Killed our father.

Speaker 16 (14:27):
Even after watching it, even after they had did.

Speaker 15 (14:31):
It him or his cultual driver, they showed no compassion,
no sympathy whatsoever. They bragged about it as if it
was okay, as if it was okay. Not only did
I have to hear my father being killed, I had.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
To watch it.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well only when you look at again, look at this video,
it's a whole lot to have to absorb. What also
struck him is that when he grabbed Johnny Holmen, Senior.
Holman says, okay, find I'll sign the ticket. Then the
officers is saying sign it, sign it. Well, it's a
little hard to sign it when you have his arm

(15:16):
behind his back. I mean, Commons said. If he say
I'm gonna sign it and you're saying sign it, well,
that's when you release his arm and you say sign
the ticket exactly.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
That's been our contention from the beginning role and we
have been very clear.

Speaker 17 (15:32):
We saw this video back in September and part of
the reason the family really was demanding and the community
came out, and the release of this video is really
a people's victory because in Georgia, if there's an open case,
typically the prosecutors do not release the video.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
But the community has.

Speaker 17 (15:53):
Been rallying and organizing and marching and this family has
been strong, and to her credit, District Attorney Finie Willis
determined that it was in the public interest to release
the video and it showed exactly what we said it
did that he three times stated I will sign the ticket.

Speaker 6 (16:12):
I'll sign the ticket.

Speaker 17 (16:13):
And instead of this officer, once he had achieved compliance,
instead of allowing Deacon Hallman to sign the ticket, he
continues to use unnecessary and excessive force to the point
that Decon Hollm is saying, I'm right handed, like you're
literally holding the arm that I would need.

Speaker 6 (16:33):
To sign the ticket with.

Speaker 17 (16:34):
So Deacon Hallmon is trying to rationalize with them, even
as he is going into distress, and this officer is
just beyond reasoning. He couldnot possibly reason with him. And
then those officers showed up afterwards, they stood there. What
your audience has not seen is that they stood there

(16:54):
for eleven minutes and forty five seconds until the EMT
arrived with him handcuffed, not breathing, and then the EMT
has to ask them to uncoff him and they performed CPR.
There was no aid rendered by any officer who came
to that scene, including the officer Kyrie Kimbro who initiated

(17:16):
this level of violence against one of our elders.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens released a statement in the aftermath
of this, and what he said was that the investigation
which was ordered after this took place, led to APD
revising and standard operating procedures regarding traffic citations, allowing officers
to write refusal to sign in the signature line rather

(17:42):
than make an arrest, expediting the launch of APD Civilian
Response Unit, which will provide service to Atlanta residents and neighborhoods.
Also developed new policies and guidelines in partnership with the
fourteen cint of DIA's office and the Jordan de Biery
Investigation with considering the public release of video evidence showing
the use of for by an Atlanta Police officer that
has resulted in serious bodily injury or death. Also this officer,

(18:07):
the review found that this officer failed to have a
supervisor on the scene proud to proceeding with the physical
arrest of Holman, which is why Atlanta Police Chief Darren
Sheerbaum terminated Officer kimbro in October. Both of you just
your thoughts and reaction to that statement.

Speaker 17 (18:28):
Well, part of it, you know clearly, and what the
family has been saying is that they were not willing
to allow their father's death to be in vain and
so any public policy change that could prevent the death
of another Atlanta citizen. I mean, Deacon Holloman was born
and raised to your born homes bank Head Court. I mean,
this is a son of Atlanta, and it's just horrific

(18:54):
to think that he died on an Atlanta street. That
being said, he felt as though much more could be said.
There was not an acknowledgment that Deacon Holloman did in
fact agree to sign the ticket that could.

Speaker 14 (19:09):
Have been there.

Speaker 6 (19:10):
What is in there is that he refused. That's the
language that's in that statement.

Speaker 17 (19:16):
And as much as as Mayor Dickens has reached out
to this family and communicated with his family and they
appreciated deeply, what they are concerned about is that the
fact that the whole world is saying is not in
that statement contained anywhere that Deacon Hallerman said fifteen times

(19:37):
I can't Breathe says three times that I'll sign the ticket, that.

Speaker 6 (19:44):
This tow truck driver would come in and.

Speaker 17 (19:47):
Jump on his neck and head area, and the city
has said nothing about that. Still using this same company
and this same total truck driver is still employed.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
It's as if they're ratifying his behavior.

Speaker 17 (20:02):
And so those are issues that could have been aggressed
so that there was more balance in the statement. And
again the family appreciates the Mirror having reached out and
continuing to offer various services, but this is a moment
for the city to step up and say, hey, there

(20:23):
are things that we saw that concern us about how
these officers stood by while this elder was in distress
and did nothing that is not contained in that statement.
And that is what the family has been concerned about
and is what has been heart wrenching for them to
just not hear the city that they love and that

(20:45):
their father loved not step up and really acknowledge the
devastation and the errors and the lack of humanity that
the whole world is witnessing now.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
It is certainly a sad story to have to report.

Speaker 12 (21:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
And what we also hate is when things are done
after the fact, because I keep saying, when someone is killed,
you can't bring them back, uh.

Speaker 8 (21:15):
And so.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
We hate to have to see this. But we certainly
appreciate both of you coming on to discuss this. Thank
you for both of you for joining us.

Speaker 6 (21:28):
Thank you, Jonan, We appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Thanks a bunch, folks, Gonna go to break. We'll be
right back on roland Mark Unfiltered on the Blackstary Network.

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Speaker 18 (23:08):
I'm Dee Barnes, and this week on the Frequency we
talk about school to prison, pipeline, book fans, and representing
for women's rights.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
The group mom Rising handles all of this, So join
me in this conversation with my guest Monifa ben Delli.

Speaker 19 (23:23):
This white backlash, this is white fear that happens every
time black people in the United States helped to walk
United States.

Speaker 7 (23:32):
Forward towards what is written on the pape.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
Right here on the frequency on the Black Star Network.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Hello, we're the credit Fictions.

Speaker 20 (23:42):
I'm doctor Vernada Hodges and I'm doctor Terrence Ferguson, and
you're tuning in to Roland Martin unfilture.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
My pound, doctor Julian Malveaux, economist and president Emerita been
at college. She joined us from the DC DO. I'm
a Congo Domingo Senior Professorial Lecture of School of International
Service at the American University out of DC. We need
to she in former Georgia State representative out of Atlanta,
glad to have three of you here, and I start
with you. I mean, it just it's like groundhog Day.

(24:16):
It's like another case for the traffic stop, another black death,
this time black cop. The level of impatience, the level
of note, the lack of compassion by this cop was
abundantly clear in that body cam footage.

Speaker 21 (24:36):
You're right, it is like Groundhog's Day. And as a
result of that, it's going to be a tough time
as we move forward for black leaders elected black folks,
because too many times it is often like groundhog hog Day,
no matter what the leadership looks like and watching this video,
I mean, I have so many comments about this, probably
more than what you actually have time for. But there
are a few things I do want to point out.
Number One, officer belongs underneath the jail. It's unbelievable to

(24:59):
me watching him say to him things like you need
to lower your voice. Does this officer you know you
can see that he is a black officer, So you
mean to tell me you don't have any older black
folks in your family because the level that Deacon Hollman
was speaking at sounds like everybody's everybody's black grandfather across
the country.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
He wasn't yelling, and this officer clearly escalated the situation.

Speaker 21 (25:19):
Second, you know, there was a time where police officers
would ask insist that people signed tickets to prove that
people were actually there on the scene. It's not in
a mission of guilt, but it's supposed to prove that
you were actually there. But a lot of that was
before the time of body cameras, where you now can
prove that if an officer says you were at a
certain location, you were there, and then you have to
go to court and fight it. If you don't believe
that you are getting a ticket fairly, but even that

(25:41):
also costs money and resources. And that's probably one of
the reasons why Decon Hollman did not want to sign
the ticket, because where the officer is so callously saying, oh, well,
you can go to court and fight it. That takes
resources in order to do that.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
You know.

Speaker 21 (25:53):
The other thing that strikes me about this video that's
so ridiculous, you know, where this officer clearly escalated the
situation is that all the time that he is yelling
for him to put his hands behind his back.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Number one, he has already told you he's an old man.

Speaker 21 (26:05):
He doesn't you don't even know if he has a
capability to put his hands behind his back. I know
people who are forty years old that can't put their
hands behind their backs. So this officer clearly escalated the
entire situation. And I am totally disappointed with the mayor's statement,
although it is to be expected because this is the
same mayor that's pushing for cop City to be built
here in Atlanta. For him to say that APD is

(26:25):
going to do an investigation, Yeah, I'm so sure that
that investigation is going to be very unbiased. I mean,
all of it is completely laughable. The comments of the
mayor and the officers, you know, reasoning behind why he
escalated with this man is their comments are laughable. But
the situation is not funny because we have a family
now that has lost a member of their family in

(26:46):
Deacon Holloman, who was only sixty two over completely senseless
violence by Atlanta Police eight by APD.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
F'm a congo to Rinita's point, and I say this
all the time, that it is the responsibility of officers
to de escalate, and what we keep seeing over and
over and over again officers not doing that. Again, you're
the one in possession of a taser, you're the one

(27:16):
in possession of a gun. You're the one who can
take somebody to jail. And that's one of those things
where and again, if you're watching this, and as I
was watching it, if I was the one who call
the cops, and I'm factoring in he's sixty two, I

(27:37):
get why he's ticked while he's upset, and this is
one of those things where you just sit where you
let that person vent, You let them vent. Sir, I
understand that, I understand you call the cops, but I
want you to understand, this is what we're required you

(27:57):
to do.

Speaker 10 (27:58):
This is the law.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
I need you to sign the ticket. And then when
he so, you can see he's frustrated, and so you
know what, you let him have his moment. If that
moment lasts two minutes, three minutes, five minutes, you let
him have it. Now what you have is a dead man.

(28:20):
You're now fired. So again, so five minutes of letting
that person vent prevents everything that happened afterwards.

Speaker 22 (28:34):
You know, Nita made so many incredible points, but I'm
going to come back to a point that she often
makes weekly, and that's one about training. And she says,
you know, a lot of these officers are doing exactly
what they were trained to do, especially in our communities,
because these are things that will not happen to a
white elder period, bottom line. And so we see the

(28:57):
type of de escalation training and all of these things
will happen in other communities, but not in ours. And
this is just another example of how many of us,
when we talk about issues with law enforcement, it's not
black versus white, it's black versus blue. And so to
your point, rolling about the escalation, I teach on the
university level. I've taught in CA to twelve levels. I've
done workshops in prisons, in our community centers and churches.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
I've had so many instances where.

Speaker 22 (29:20):
I'm dealing with kids who I can tell because of
my training as an educator, needs a moment, needs to
be able to calm themselves down. Why can't law people
in our law enforcement do that? Why can't people who
like you said, have guns, have bad just have tasers,
have cuss, have our addresses and can find us later
not have the ability to do that. We see in
places like Philadelphia where law enforcement, you know, it's goden

(29:41):
so bad they had to say stop pulling people over,
just record their license place and get to them later.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
But we have a man who was dead and as
a father, somebody with daughters.

Speaker 22 (29:50):
You know, Black people, we will never become desensitized to
these things because we can always see somebody in our
own family in these videos or somebody that we know.
And so to listen to the daughter go through that
and speak about that and watch how her dad was
just taken from her by somebody who was arrogant, ignorant
and completely disrespectful. I don't trust the APD to do

(30:12):
anything about it. I'm looking at the pictures of this man,
by all accounts, of a family dedicated man, a churchman,
and taken on the streets like that by quote unquote
one of our own. This is ridiculous, and the Justice
Department needs to be on this, especially now at the
videos that has been out and shown to the public.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
They should have already.

Speaker 10 (30:30):
Been on this.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
But we have to keep speaking up.

Speaker 22 (30:32):
This is not a story that you're seeing on any
other network today or tomorrow or the day before yesterday.
So if we're not going to speak up on and
to help these family get justice and make these changes,
nobody else will.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
So I know people say, oh, we do this.

Speaker 9 (30:44):
All the time.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
No, we don't do this all the time.

Speaker 22 (30:46):
What we do all the time is demand for justice,
no matter who does it, no matter where it's coming from,
because we deserve better.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And that quote unquote brother failed our community.

Speaker 22 (30:55):
And I hope that there's a deeper investigation because there
needs to be some real consequences and reaper questions for this.

Speaker 7 (31:00):
Hear me all, Oh well, Roland, you started out by
saying watching the video might trigger you, if necessary, turn away.
It triggered me. It triggered me immensely, and I still
feel stomach palpitations because that was just unreasonable, unjust unreal.
I don't know what's wrong with that little negro who
called himself a policeman, who basically brutalized an elder, who

(31:25):
brutalized an elder. And I mean, I understand a man
not want to sign a ticket, and as you said, Roland,
some patients could have. Well, you got to sign the ticket.
It doesn't mean that you're admitted guilt. It means that
you're agreeing that you're gonna come to court. He had
no patience with the brother a tall none whatsoever. And
apparently the man thought he was in the right. Otherwise

(31:47):
he would never have called the police. So you know,
there's an issue of perception.

Speaker 14 (31:53):
But this.

Speaker 7 (31:55):
Little person, I won't even dignify him by calling police officer.
He was so wrong, but beyond his wrong, this is
so it's like here we go again, we see this
over and over again. I'm disappointed, but not surprised at
the mayor of Atlanta. I guess he feels like he

(32:16):
has to support his team, but he needed to say
a lot more, especially to acknowledge that which was wrong,
and to tase the man he's down on the ground,
to tase him is absurd and sensitivity, om Congo, you
know what, you do some sensitivity if you want to move,

(32:36):
but sensitivity does not work for some people. If you
have been steeped in a culture that says you can
treat anybody any kind of way, you can go to
all the sensitivity trainings that you want to and it
will not help you. What needs to happen is the
APD to re need this. They need to basically clean

(32:56):
that thing out. That young man he was relatively young,
you could tell. I mean, he wasn't fifty, he wasn't forty.
Here's a young man. So how a young black man
could come out and disrespect an elder like that. It
suggests either he had some messed up home training and
I'm not gonna talk about his mama, but either he
had some mess up home training, or he was encouraged

(33:17):
to think that this kind of behavior is okay. And
Oma Congo is absolutely right. What the community need to
say is it's not okay. You cannot do us this way.
And you know, I just saw something where a taser
company said, oh, it wasn't their fault. Well, they need
to you know what, now, curse on the air.

Speaker 10 (33:36):
They need to you know what.

Speaker 7 (33:38):
But that's not the point.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
The man was The.

Speaker 7 (33:41):
Taser company needs to be looked at too, But that's
not the only issue. The issue is the excessive use
of force. When a man is down on the ground
while you gotta tase it. He wasn't gonna go anywhere,
means elderly, he probably had, you know, some physical issues.
They said he had heart trouble. He's on the ground.
Where is he going? Why is this okay?

Speaker 14 (34:03):
Now?

Speaker 7 (34:03):
This ought to be apd needs to be dismambled. Whoever
the chief is need to be fired. The mayor keeps
defending these people, they need to have a recall election
on his behind because this is just unacceptable folk.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
So type one second, we come back. I want to
talk about a case out of Texas which is beyond strange.
A black man sends a life in prison. He was
actually defending himself. But to explain you what's going on. Also,
dridg selection begins this week in the trial of Jonathan Majors,
accused of assaulting a former girlfriend. We will walk through that.

(34:39):
But it's also strange in that case. Why is the
NYPD chose to file charges against his former girlfriend but
the prosecutor's office refuses to prosecute. You're watching Rollard Martin
Unfiltered on the Black shidd Network. Be sure to join
O Brina Funk fank Ups and You're kicking money. Order

(35:01):
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(35:22):
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Speaker 5 (35:29):
Hatred on the streets.

Speaker 23 (35:30):
A horrific scene white nationalist rally that descended into deadly
violence soil.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
White people are losing their theirs.

Speaker 11 (35:41):
As a maguary pro Trump Mark storms to the US
capital over six show, We're about to.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
See the lives of what I call white minority resistance.

Speaker 24 (35:49):
We have seen white folks in this country who simply
cannot tolerate black folks voting.

Speaker 25 (35:55):
I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of
violent denial.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
This is part of American history.

Speaker 25 (36:02):
Every time that people of color had made a progress,
whether real or symbolic, there has been But Carol Anderson
at every university calls white rage as a backlash.

Speaker 24 (36:12):
Since the life of the Proud Boys and the Boogaaloo
Boys America, there's going.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
To be more of this all the Proud Boys.

Speaker 26 (36:18):
God, this country is getting increasingly racist and its behaviors
and its attitudes because of the fear of white.

Speaker 27 (36:26):
People with who that you're taking our job, they're taking
out our resources, they're taking out women.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
This is white feel.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
On the Mexican Wel with me, Deborah Owens.

Speaker 28 (36:52):
Have you ever had a million dollar idea and wondered
how to bring it to life?

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Well, it's all about terming problems into opportunities. On our
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And I was just struggling with two or three bags
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That's right here.

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On Get Wealthy only on black Star Network.

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Speaker 4 (38:08):
Hi am doctor Jackie, Head Martin, and I have a
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Speaker 20 (38:41):
Next on the Black Table with Me, Great Car Working
under the constant threat of violence, nearly fifty bomb threats
over dozens of HBCU campuses. In twenty twenty two, we'll
talk to our HBCU Master Teacher Roundtable about the stress,
the strain, the frustrating lack of answers, and real community

(39:03):
grounded solutions to the threat of violence who we face
at HBCUs today Join us for the Black Table only
on the Black Star Network.

Speaker 18 (39:16):
I'm d Barnes, and this week on the Frequency, we
talk about school to prison, pipeline, book fans.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
And representing for women's rights.

Speaker 7 (39:24):
The group Mom Rising handles all of this, so join me.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
In this conversation with my guest, Monifa ben Delli.

Speaker 7 (39:32):
White backlash.

Speaker 19 (39:33):
This is white fear that happens every time Black people
in the United States helped to walk United States.

Speaker 13 (39:41):
Forward towards what is written on the paper.

Speaker 5 (39:43):
Right here on the Frequency on the Black Star Network.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Hello, I'm Paula J.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Parker, Judie Prau on the Proud Family.

Speaker 27 (39:54):
I am Tommy Davidson, I play Oscar on Proud Family,
Louder and Proud.

Speaker 30 (39:58):
I am jeal Marie Payton, Boys and Sugar Mama on
Disney's Louder and Prouder Disney gust And I'm with Roland
Martin on unfiltered.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Texas jury sent us a black man to life in
prison with the possibility to parole after thirty years of
the twenty fourteen death of a Colleen Police detective. Marvin
Guy shot Chuck Dinwiddie during a no knock narcotics raid

(40:33):
in May of twenty fourteen. Though it was a capital
murder trial, the jury found him guilty on a lesser
charge of murder. Folks, God waited in jail for more
than nine years before his trial. Now he said he
mistook them for an intruder after a swat team smashed

(40:56):
his bedroom window and tried to break into his home
with the battering ram during a five forty five am
drug rate. The raid was plagued with issues. The team
struggled to penetrate the door with their battering ram fully,
and an officer accidentally detonated his stun grenade. No knock

(41:17):
warrant was obtained by a tip that Guy had been
dealing cocaine. So what's so strange about this story, and
this is so reminiscent to so many of these other
no knock warrant stories we see on the congo. Is

(41:38):
this notion that you're in places like Texas where you
can protect yourself. It's five forty five in the morning.
You don't know who the hell is trying to tear
your door down, and so if you got a gun
and you hearing someone's trying to tear your door down,

(42:00):
your natural reaction is to protect yourself. But this is right,
this right here is why no knock worrnt should absolutely be.

Speaker 22 (42:09):
Banned, absolutely, and not only that, because we see they
after multiple tries of trying to get into his home.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
You know, usually police come in with one bang and
they're in the door.

Speaker 22 (42:19):
So you hear multiple attempts to try to get into
your door, you're automatically gonna think something, particularly if you think,
if you particularly if you live in a neighborhood that
that's not considered safe. The fact of the matter is
is people talk about stand your ground all the time,
but don't believe black people have the right to stand
our ground. And that's where the hypocrisy comes in. And
to your last point here when you talk about this

(42:40):
is why no knock warrants need to be destroyed entirely
and we should never use them again. Families of police
officers need to know that more situations like this can
indeed happen since you know, with Breonna Taylor, you know,
and her worfriend as well, you know, he also shot
at them, and so police are also at risk of
losing family members. And we know that the police and
police unions are not gonna particularly care about the fact

(43:01):
that some of us may lose our lives at the
extent at the hands of these no knock warrants. But
maybe when they started realizing that their own fellow officers
can also be at risk of something like this, particularly
in a state that is stand your ground, particularly in
a state where people want to not have the ability
to even have to go through training to have firearms,
you are going to see more things like this happen.

(43:23):
So get rid of that entirely and then also toughen
up some of the gun laws. But that's a conversation
for another day. But to the point at the end
of the day, no knock warrants are dangerous for all
parties involved, even with Breonna Taylor's family. You know, the
neighbor there were bullets that went through and that was
the only charge that was particularly you know, brought up
in the beginning, But even the neighbors weren't danger.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
So when are they really going to get to a
point when they realized.

Speaker 22 (43:46):
That, if our evidence is solid, we shouldn't have to
go through this process as well. Let's do everything by
the book for the sake of everyone's safety.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
See here's the thing that's crazy here, Julian. The prosecutors
say that, well, uh, he he purposely placed something back
there that he knew that the cops were coming. Then
they also claim, uh, and this is what they also,
law enforcement claimed traces of First of all, in Texas

(44:16):
of the castle doctrine. Castle doctrine doesn't apply if you're
involving legal activity. So law law enforcement allegedly found traces
of white powder on Guy's apartment floor, in his car
in the trash, but he was never charged with the
drug crime. Okay, now, he said, I had a neighbor

(44:37):
who was attacked by an intruder the previous week.

Speaker 10 (44:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Prosecutors called several uh, several witnesses. His defense didn't call
any witnesses whatsoever. Uh, and again convicted. Uh. But but
this right here goes to show you if I'm on
the other side, and again I got an arm very
much like Bonna Taylor's boyfriend. You busted through the door.
I'm going to protect me and my family. And what

(45:02):
happened was they say he fired at four officers. They
are killing Denwitty, and forty rounds were fired at him.

Speaker 7 (45:14):
M forty rounds were fired at him. Okay, I'm just
gonna let let's just simmer that for a second. And
while we simmer it, you said white powder was found
in the trash. Was a trash in a bedroom and
it was a bacon soda or something that. I mean,
come on, now, white powder. They the police have the
ability to test the white powder. They did not say

(45:35):
cocaine was found. They said white powder was found. White
powder could be anything. So this, you know, again, this
is just the repeated absurdity of the way that black
people are treated and exercising our normal rights. And you know, Roland,
this stuff does trigger me. And it partially triggers me
because I'm doing all this research on lynching and lynching

(45:57):
culture and this is just so off reminiscent of what
has happened over and over again. I'm looking at a
lynching now where a brother it's literally almost the same
thing happened. They bust in his house, he shot he
killed somebody, so they lynched it. Well, why they busted
his house and they did not have a reason. They
busted into his house because somebody said, and so they

(46:17):
bust in. He was prepared to protect his family. You know,
we are going back to Dred Scott. Black folks have
no rights that whites are bound to respect. And this
brother has been dealt a terrible injustice to be basically
incarcerated for nine years and then to be found guilty
to a lesser charge. But since it's life imprisonment, I

(46:40):
hope it doesn't seem like he had good attorneys. So
this is a ben crumb call because it seems to
me if he says that the neighbors have been broken
into family, give him reason to be very concerned about
somebody trying to bust down his house, down his door.
Why weren't any of those neighbors called as witnesses. I mean,

(47:02):
there are so many questions here, but the bottom line
issue is that black people do not have rights in
this country. We never did and until we basically rise up,
we probably never will. I mean, we have a little
more than we had before, and we had a president,
got a vice president, but down there on the ground

(47:22):
where the deacon was down. It didn't matter to him
that there's a black vice president or president. He was
a man who was being brutalized with this gentleman as well.
You're looking at someone who sees, you know, who basically
is living in a crime ridden area. Apparently his neighbor
was just busted into. What right does he have? Does

(47:43):
he have the right to protect himself or is he's
just supposed to lay there and get rob ripped off,
be brutalized whatever. You don't know, So no knock warrant.
I mean, those things just need to be thrown away.
If you have evidence, you can present your evidence. But
to come in with no warning, no nothing, what are
you expecting at five forty five am. Anyway, the police

(48:04):
have gone excuse me, they've gone wild. You know, they've
gone wild. But we pay their salaries and we've respected it,
We've accepted it. We act like we think it's okay.
I know we don't think it's okay. What too many
of us do. I could already hear the people talk. Well,
was he was he dealing drugs? Don't matter. You bust
into the man's house. He defended himself that's the end of.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (48:32):
And the white powder comment to me sounds like a
cya comment, which is cover your ass by the police, because,
like doctor Malveaux said, either it was cocaine or it
was not.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
They know that this was a botch trade.

Speaker 21 (48:46):
And you know, these no knock warrants by design are
just a completely terrible idea because a lot of them
happened that they scheduled them in the middle of the
night to catch people off guard. Well, when you catch
people off guard, especially coming out of sleep, you're just
gonna get re actions from people. People are not going
to be thinking clearly. So it increases the chance that
whoever you're doing this no knock warrant on is going

(49:06):
to respond, likely with firepower or likely with something very
violent because you're waking them up out of their sleep.
So at the end of the day, you know, I'll
take it a step further than what doctor Malvo said.
Black people do not have the right to self defense
in this country. And the reason why I say that
is because a lot of times we hear things about
the castle doctrine, we hear things about stands or ground
and all that sounds good and common sense and I'll

(49:28):
just real quick tell you what those are and for
anybody who doesn't know, But basically, these are laws across
the country that say, if somebody comes into your home,
you can do whatever it takes to defend yourself as
long as they are, you know, entering into your house
obviously not invited, basically truspassing. You have the right to
defend yourself and that can include you know, killing someone

(49:49):
to protect yourself, and so that sounds good to a
lot of folks. But what you don't know is when
you add into that calculation if you are black. What
happens when you try to say that you are doing
self defense, just standing your ground or exercising the castle's doctrine,
is that it usually does not work out for people
who are black, For people who look.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
Like myself and everybody else on this panel.

Speaker 21 (50:11):
The statistics are that white people are twenty times more
likely to be able to use stand your ground or
the castle defense those laws than black people. So that
means black people are twenty times less likely to be
able to use that in a defense in court successfully.
So basically what that means is, even though these laws
are on the books, you as a black person are

(50:33):
not really going to be successful at using this when
you get to court, and most likely you will just
be found guilty of murder.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
And that is what has happened with this man.

Speaker 21 (50:43):
I honestly don't even know that he would have had
that much more success had it not been officers that
he shot, because again, statistics don't lie. And in this country,
self defense is really something that has worked. It works
really well for white folks, but is not working well
for black folks. On paper and all this is rolled
into the gun conversation when we talk about people having

(51:03):
the right to protect and defend themselves and their families.
There needs to be a serious conversation about equity in
gun laws and equity in the self defense conversation because
right now, black folks in this country have essentially no right.

Speaker 5 (51:16):
When it really boils down to it.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
All right, folks, hod Titan one second, we come back.
We'll talk about the Jonathan Major's case. Drew selection begins
this week. What's really going on here? Why are prosecutors
refusing to prosecute the woman who he accused of assaulting
her when the police arrested her. We'll also talk about

(51:42):
a case that Jonathan Major's attorney one of a black man,
former prosecutor who was accused by a woman here a
one night stand with of rape. He was found not guilty. Well,
explain all of that and hear from Major's attorney about
that case, and we come back a rollerbout none, folks

(52:02):
to the Black study that we talk about blackness and
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This is a genuine people power movement.

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Speaker 31 (54:39):
Hi am doctor Jackie Hood Martin, and I have a
question for you. Ever feel as if your life is
teetering and weight and pressure of the world is consistently
on your shoulders, Well, let me tell you, living a
balance life isn't easy. Join me each Tuesday on Blackstar
Network for a balance life for Doctor Jackie. We'll laugh together,
cry together, pull ourselves together, in cheer each other on.

(55:01):
So join me for new shows each Tuesday on a
Blackstar Network, A balanced life with Doctor Jackie.

Speaker 10 (55:13):
Hey, what's up? Keith to me? In A place to be?

Speaker 32 (55:14):
Got kicked out to Mama's University creator and that can
producer of Fat Tuesdays and a hip hop comedy. Right now,
I'm rolling with Roland Martin, unfiltered, uncutting, unplugged and undamned
believable him.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
In Smith Comblach, intich intmth comic In, Smith Combach Instactmith

(56:22):
Comic instag Instammbach instant In Smith Colbach Instant, Smith Comic
Instammbach Instant, Smith Comic instat In, Smith Combach instat.

Speaker 10 (56:59):
In.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
On Wednesday, the trial of Jonathan Majors is set to
begin in New York City. Jonathan Majors, of course, is
the actor. We know him from Creed, know him from
so many other television shows as well. In March, he
was accused of physically assaulting his then girlfriend. He was

(57:28):
actually arrested on assault and harassment charges. Now, what's interesting
about this, And this case has gone through all sorts
of different variations, and so Grace Jabbari is the ex girlfriend.
Now what's interesting about this. Over the summer he filed

(57:51):
across complaint accusing her of assault. She turned herself into
police in October. Now what's crazy is that she was arrested.
So the NYPD determined that there was enough evidence to
arrest her for assaulting him. If the Manhattan District Attorney's

(58:14):
office chose not to prosecute those charges, Okay, they dropped
the charges. Now this sort of is very weird. Now,
we had a young lady, Kaiser Gonderzak, a former a

(58:36):
WNBA player, on talking about her case with Kevin Porter Jr.
And in that case, she unpacked saying that how she
was not actually interviewed by a police, how they actually
apologized to her with regards to not interviewing her and
all sort of the back and forth. And that case
is sort of still ongoing. But there was a story

(58:58):
that didn't get lots of attention a couple of weeks
ago that I saw that I thought was also interesting
because it involved a former prosecutor in Massachusetts. His name
is Adam Fosce Adam Fosse, as I said, it was
a prosecutor in Boston, prominent criminal justice reform advocate. He

(59:23):
was tried for the alleged rape of a twenty five
year old woman in October two Thoyd seventeen. Well, it
wasn't until this month that he was actually acquitted. He
said that it was consensual. Now, prosecutors alleged that Fosse

(59:46):
that they went back to being back to the hotel,
She rejected his sexual advances, went to sleep, woke up,
found him sexually assaulting her. And yet his attorney be
the same attorney for Johnathan Majors said, wait a minute later,
she told a friend that the night was cute and

(01:00:08):
it was beautiful. Foss was found not guilty. When when
when you see uh, this it raises lots of questions,
obviously when it comes to the Manhattan Prosecutor's office when
it comes to sexual assault cases, obviously these typically are

(01:00:29):
high profile Manhattan da Alvin Bragg has made this a
priority of its administration, but it also causes us to say,
wait a minute. You're pursuing these cases against the men involved,
but in this one case of Majors where you have
the cops say there's enough evidence to actually arrest his

(01:00:52):
ex girlfriend, prosecutors go, no, we're gonna drop those charges. Uh.
Priya uh Audrey. She is the attorney for Adam Foss,
but also Jonathan Ager. She cannot talk about the major's
case because of a gag order imposed by the judge
in that particular case. As I said, that trial begins

(01:01:13):
on Wednesday, but we can't talk about the false case.
And it's a Preya. First off, the Fosse case took
place the ledge rape October seventeen. When did you join
the defense team?

Speaker 23 (01:01:33):
I joined the defense team probably in December of last year.
So the Foss allegation was from six years ago. And
one thing, mister Martin, hello you. I love how up
to speed on the facts you are. One fact that
is fascinating about the Foss case that should really make
everybody worry about what's happening in Alvin Bragg's office is

(01:01:56):
that the accuser in the Foss case and mister Foss
spent one night together ever in their lives, and she
never went to the police.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
Ever, that's not how this case started. She in fact
wrote a lot about mister Foss and about what really happened,
everything from.

Speaker 23 (01:02:18):
Her obsession with him, which there's plenty of text messages.
She wrote songs about him, about how great they could
be together, how they could be Beyonce and jay Z,
but he ghosted her and he should really give her
another chance because they're so great together. And then years
later she wrote a medium post and on the medium

(01:02:41):
post she for the first time says I was raped
the Manhattan District Attorney's office. And what's actually really terrifying
is one of the women who's the head of the
sex crimes unit saw that medium post.

Speaker 5 (01:02:54):
Reached out to this false accuser and started this case.

Speaker 23 (01:02:58):
So we don't even have a situation where the prosecutor
is even pretending to do the prosecutor's job, which is
to take police reports, start investigating, making a decision, as
it's an officer of the court, whether there is evidence,
whether they believe the evidence to look for, whether there's

(01:03:20):
evidence not to believe this person, and then deciding a
charging decision.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
This started backwards.

Speaker 23 (01:03:27):
Alvin Bride's office decided to go after Adam Thoughts, and
they did this by initiating this case. And all of
the evidence collected by Alvin Bride's office showed one.

Speaker 5 (01:03:40):
Thing and one thing only that this woman is not
telling the truth.

Speaker 23 (01:03:43):
But instead of doing what a prosecutor is supposed to do, which,
as I said, is to investigate and to do justice.
I mean, the Supreme Court has been very clear that
a prosecutor's office is not supposed to convict people. It's
not supposed to try to win at all costs. The
prosecutor's office, because they have all of this power and
all of these resources, is supposed to do justice. But

(01:04:05):
instead of putting any of the exculpatory evidence into the
grand jury, despite requests from mister Foster's lawyer at the time,
and these would be the very text messages you reference,
and you, mister Martin, put them very g rated. In fact,
the text messages that she sends him within minutes are

(01:04:26):
x rated, and they're graphically describing how she is.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
If I, if I may, I don't, I don't know
if I if I, if I may use the word is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Wet describing the Yeah, the show is called on filter.
We're fine, go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
Sorry.

Speaker 23 (01:04:42):
As a criminal defense lawyer, I'm used to saying things
that that other people find find jarring. But these text
messages alone would make anyone say this person is not
only celebrating this event, but then she spends the next
four months trying to recreate it, pursuing him, sending him
videos of herself, constantly asking to see him, constantly asking

(01:05:06):
to have sex with him again, and then, as I said,
culminating in her writing a song about him, and then
also writing other statements about what happened, in which she
calls him a fuck boy, which is what I guess
the kids say these days for a player, and saying
that I wish I had never slept with you. I

(01:05:28):
wish i'd never let you touch me. Had you told
me the truth, which is that basically you didn't want
to be my boyfriend, I would not have agreed to
have sex with you.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
And this is in writing and the process.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
It's so in court. In court you said he basically
ghostit her. Well, but let me go back, let me
go back, And this is where I'm absolutely confused. Here
so this takes place in October, allegedly October twenty seventeen. Well, no,
they did sleep together. This Islober twenty seventeen. Got it
hotel room? When is the Medium post posted.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
The accuser?

Speaker 23 (01:06:07):
The false accuser writes her Medium post in November of
twenty twenty three years later.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
So three years later she puts up a post in
on Medium. I take it this was seen through the
Me too movement, if you will. There were other people
who are posting things, and then that's when the prosecutors
then got involved. So a prosecutor saw the post and

(01:06:34):
then contacted her. At no point did she actually initiate
the contact with the DA's office or the police.

Speaker 23 (01:06:46):
Correct And in fact, on the stand she said, I
never would have gone to the police, and we know
now why and this you know, I saw your show
on Kevin Porter, and you know, as a journalist, you
really understand the concept of the narrative, right, and how
the narrative is bigger than the truth and the story
because it becomes what people believe inside. And one thing

(01:07:10):
about this case, which is so terrifying and should make
everybody really terrified about what's happening in Alvin Bragg's office
is as you noted in the Kevin Porter case, and
it's just true. In the criminal justice system, prosecutors will
charge people, and most of the people they charge are
black and poor people and people of color, people who
can't even withstand having a charge against them because of

(01:07:32):
the consequences in their life. And then they will start
making offers, and most people will just take an offer
to end the case because they either can't go to court,
they can't take the time off work, they can't take
the risk of actually trying to fight it. Right, the
offer made in this case I've never heard in my
twenty five years as a defense lawyer. This is the

(01:07:54):
offer made by the DA's office.

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
And that is to Adam false, to Adam false now again.

Speaker 23 (01:08:01):
They charged him with a rape charge that had a
five year at least mandatory minimum prison sentence.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
That would have had a lifetime of sex offender registration.
That was what was at stake.

Speaker 23 (01:08:14):
The offer was that they would dismiss the case entirely
against Foss on three conditions, all of which are illegal, unethical,
and unheard of. One that he goes into court and
he admits that he actually did rape her. Right all
that achieves is making sure that Adam Foss cannot sue
Alvin Bragg, which, by the way, he is doing and

(01:08:35):
we could talk about that, and also ensures that this
false accuser can sue Adam Foss and win.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Two.

Speaker 23 (01:08:41):
And this is terrifying that he never showed the evidence
to anyone, that he spent his whole.

Speaker 5 (01:08:48):
Life walking around saying it was dismissed, but I.

Speaker 23 (01:08:54):
Can never prove to you that I didn't do it.
And three that he never quote change than narrative. She'll
never say I am innocent, So they would have dismissed
the case entirely.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Okay. And this police walking was offered when this.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
Was offered in January of this year.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Okay. So what you described to these text messages? So
they sleep together October twenty seventeen, these text messages, these videos,
these photos. How long was she contacting him a year

(01:09:33):
to like? How long?

Speaker 23 (01:09:35):
So they met in September and immediately after they start texting.
They've only met six times in their life. The sixth
is when she testified against him. They sleep together in
October and she continues to text him until December, at
which point he says, I can't do.

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
This, I'm not interested. You want more from this relationship
than I do.

Speaker 23 (01:09:58):
Then she emails him, then she sends him the video
of her performance, and then she ultimately speaks to him
one more time, basically begging.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
Him to take her back and give her another chance.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
So October twenty seventeen to.

Speaker 23 (01:10:15):
What April of twenty eighteen, April first is the last
time he ever saw her until she came into court
to testify against.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
So when the prosecutor sees this, and obviously they contact him.
So when this when she writes this post, this is November,
this is number twenty twenty. Was he still a prosecutor
by then?

Speaker 5 (01:10:38):
He was not a prosecutor.

Speaker 23 (01:10:39):
He had left the Suffolk County which is Boston prosecutor office,
in twenty seven, twenty sixteen, to start a nonprofit called
Prosecutor Impact.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
And I mean, this is the irony of all of it.

Speaker 23 (01:10:53):
The goal and purpose of his nonprofit was to train
prosecutor's offices around the country. An implicit bias, because, as
we know, the criminal justice system basically picked up where
slavery left off, and the entire system is infected with
such deep bias, some of which is open, some of
which is implicit. And as a prosecutor, he understood that

(01:11:15):
prosecutors are making bad decisions, not understanding what they're doing,
not knowing really how to evaluate a case. And this
very office, Manhattan DA's office under Syvance, invited him and
had him give a training to their office to teach
them how to prosecute cases.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
So the reason I was going through the timeline what
I am confused by. If a prosecutor receives this information
and these text messages and emails are turned over, how
does a prosecutor conclude that somebody was raped but then

(01:11:56):
you have evidence of the person accused them of pursuing
the individual. I would think if a woman is raped,
she is not trying to get back with that person,
is not sending them text messages, nor sending them emails.

Speaker 17 (01:12:15):
And so.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
How does a prosecutor, frankly, resolve this oxymoron? What did
they actually say? Did they just say, oh, that's irrelevant?

Speaker 5 (01:12:30):
So we have the same questions.

Speaker 23 (01:12:33):
It used to be that prosecutors, especially this District Attorney's
office under prior district attorneys, not Alvin Bragg, they would
not bring a case unless they had a good faith
belief that they could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
But I have heard from numerous people in Alvin Bragg's office,
including people in the sex crimes unit and the domestic

(01:12:54):
violence unit, that they just believe women and that they
now have And they use the word appetite for bringing
cases they wouldn't bring before, and they're happy to let
a jury decide just so they can, as Alvin Bragg
put out a press statement after Foss was acquitted, so
they can elevate the voice of survivors, which is first

(01:13:18):
of all, just an utter bullshit, because the jury found
there was no survivor.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
They were clear. They came out running after the verdict,
hugging Adam Foss. Over the weekend.

Speaker 23 (01:13:27):
They were messaging Adam Foss directly saying what can we
do to get your life back on track.

Speaker 5 (01:13:34):
We want you to be back in.

Speaker 23 (01:13:36):
Society doing social justice work. We cannot believe anybody brought
this case against you. This was utter garbage from the start.
So your question is how do they do it? They've
just changed their tact in that office. They are just
pushing this agenda a victim's.

Speaker 5 (01:13:53):
Right advocate group, which is not what a prosecutor is.

Speaker 23 (01:13:55):
A prosecutor has the ability to put people in jail
and to ruin the lives just by accusing that. They
should not be having an appetite to bring cases that
are against the evidence, not supported by evidence, and simply
an agenda that has a political motive that helps the

(01:14:15):
DA get elected again, and that's what they're doing. And
this particular prosecutor, when I asked her, how do you
reconcile all of this, she said, I know this is
a difficult case to win. No case should be brought
by any prosecutor if that prosecutor thinks it's.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
A difficult case to win, because what that.

Speaker 23 (01:14:33):
Basically means is I don't think I have proof beyond
a reasonable doubt. And in this case, the evidence was
beyond a reasable doubt that this woman was lying. And
they never pursued her. They let her go ahead and
lie on the grand jury. They let her lie on
the stand. They just took a gamble, said okay, well,
let's see what happens, and if Adam Foss gets acquitted, then.

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
No harm, no foul. But that's just not true.

Speaker 23 (01:14:58):
The man's life is utterly destroyed, destroyed, he's he's canceled
he's you know, on food stamps. Now he was waiting
bars I mean, this man was an award winning prosecutor.

Speaker 5 (01:15:13):
He'd been awarded.

Speaker 23 (01:15:14):
By Barack Obama, the Nelson Mandela Foundation, the NAACP, he
had an Ashoka Fellowship.

Speaker 5 (01:15:20):
He was being invited by Prosecutor's office.

Speaker 23 (01:15:23):
Not just in America but all over the world to
teach how to bring justice to our system. And not
only have they dismantled that, but they've dismantled his entire
life for what to elevate the voice of a woman
who anybody in two seconds would know his line.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
And also also he was he was found not guilty.
Her name was never released to the public. Correct, That's correct.
So here here's so if you google so and the
reason I'm raising this if and again I'm not trying

(01:16:00):
to out anybody, attack anybody, but if you if you
google his name for ever, you're going to see that
he was accused of rape. And in fact there's the
new yer post also said that singer Reagan Seely publicly
accused him of rape, but the dies office did not

(01:16:23):
did not did not confirm if if Seely was the
woman involved in this particular case. But again you you
google his name, accused rapist is going to be right
next to him, being a ted talk speaker in a
criminal justice reform advocate.

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
Correct, he is branded for life.

Speaker 23 (01:16:46):
And this person who's not only a false accuser but
quite frankly dangerous right she's she's walking around no consequence
to her whatsoever, and no consequence to the DA who
brought this case or Alvin Bragg so far, which is
why Adam Foss will be suing Alvin Bragg and the

(01:17:09):
district attorney who brought this case. I mean, and we
should also be terrified because I think a lot of
people and myself included, supported Alvin Bragg's run for.

Speaker 5 (01:17:20):
DA because we thought things would be different under a
black DA.

Speaker 23 (01:17:23):
We thought this person would actually give a shit about
people who look like him, and in fact it's been
a nightmare, an absolute nightmare.

Speaker 5 (01:17:33):
The only people that Alvin Bragg seems.

Speaker 23 (01:17:35):
To care about are his voter base, which is predominantly white,
and a lot of women. And he's filled his office
with people who don't look like him, but people who
want who are believe women, agenda first people, not evidence
based people.

Speaker 5 (01:17:54):
And what Bragg's office has shown us by.

Speaker 23 (01:17:59):
Bringing a case like this is it's not even a
do you believe men or do you believe women? They
just don't believe evidence and they don't care. And by
the way, on this believe women issue, I hear the argument,
and as a woman, I understand the appeal to it.
But first of all, what historical wrong are we writing

(01:18:21):
when we just say believe one group over another?

Speaker 14 (01:18:24):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:18:24):
Didn't we already play that book? Didn't didn't we see
what happened? And really, if we look at history, shouldn't
we be believing black men? I mean, has it? Haven't
we learned any lessons of what happens?

Speaker 23 (01:18:36):
And and as I said, what we should be worried
about under Alvin Bragg's office is this prosecutor tried to
strike every black person from the jury. I raise so
many bathroom challenges, and the things she said about them
just show that all they want is to try to
get a conviction at all costs. One of the jurys
she tried to strike. She this is what the prosecutor

(01:18:57):
said about him. I don't think he's going to be
to understand the jury instructions. This is a black man
with an MBA from NYU, with a job which he
makes a lot of money and has a lot of responsibility.
But that's what she put on the record. That's why
he can't be on this jury. And then that same man,
the reason she wanted to get rid of him is

(01:19:18):
he's also said, well, I know the history of this country,
and so when there's an accusation of a white woman
and a black man, I'm going to keep my ears open.

Speaker 5 (01:19:27):
And that's the reason the prosecutor said he can't be
fair on this jury.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
And in this case, the accuser was a white woman
and fault he.

Speaker 5 (01:19:35):
Was a white British woman. Yes, and Foss is a
black man.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
I'm going to ask you this yere. Obviously this is
not because i've it was also very similar again, and
I've been watching a lot of these lawsuits that have
been filed as a results of the New York Adult
Survivors Act, and they have been coming fast and furious.
And what happens is they get reports, like in the

(01:20:00):
case of the accusations of sexual assault against Mayor Eric Adams.
It gets reported, but then another report came out showing
that in my PD said they had no evidence of
this person working for the police department, but the story
that ran was that he was accused of sexually assaulting

(01:20:22):
a fellow police officer. And it is as if the
stories get reported first without any verification, any fact check.
And some of these aren't actually even lawsuits, they're just
complaints that oh later in lawsuit, lawsuit will be filed.

(01:20:43):
And so you mentioned this earlier. Believe women, and that
has been one of the most contentious aspects of even
the whole me too movement, where there have been individuals
who have sought justice who were impacted, who were sexually assaulted.

(01:21:05):
But then you have other case. I forgot the comedian
who the same thing I think. I think it was
a medium post as well with the woman said I
didn't want him to perform oral sex on me, and
it got weird and he was kind of like, wait, man,
wella what I sexually assaulted you? And so this has
been one of the areas that people have grappled with,
this whole notion of who do you believe? Do you

(01:21:28):
believe somebody solely because they're a woman, or do you say,
what's the evidence to prove it?

Speaker 23 (01:21:37):
And that's exactly where we should be if anybody truly
believed in the Constitution our rights, then the presumption of
innocence should matter, right, because if you're going to believe her,
then you should also believe him when he says I
didn't do it. In fact, when you're in a court
of law, that's where you're supposed to start with.

Speaker 5 (01:21:56):
I believe him. I believe he didn't do it.

Speaker 7 (01:21:59):
Prove it to me.

Speaker 10 (01:22:00):
Right.

Speaker 23 (01:22:00):
But when we shift this and we just say I
don't need evidence, all I need is an accusation, what
you end up with is a terrifying moment where anybody
can hold a gun to your head because they know
they're going to be believed, because they know no one's
going to ask for evidence. They know no one is
going to cross examine you or even verify anything you've said.

(01:22:22):
And they know as soon as that accusation is out,
you're dead and it's very hard to take it back.
It's very hard to repair your reputation. So it basically
becomes a shakedown. Look, if there is evidence, then bring
your case. If there's no evidence, then no one, no
one should believe you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
I do want to go back, you want to go back.
So in this in the Adam Foss case, did the
NYPD ever investigate or was the investigation completely through the
DA's office.

Speaker 23 (01:22:59):
So a little bit of both, because the DA's office
does have their own NYPD officers assigned to them. So
once this prosecutor reached out to the accuser, the false accuser,
then there were some interviews with the NYPD there who
was doing investigation to try to find any proof that

(01:23:19):
this happened. And all they found is proof that it
didn't happen, and yet they proceeded. The DA's office wanted
to advance the rights of survivors. And the only survivor
we have here is Adam Foss, who survived a false
rape allegation as a black man, and his career has
not survived yet we're hoping that comes back. His mission

(01:23:41):
hasn't survived. But that is the only survivor of this case,
not this false accuser.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Well, and the only reason I'm asking that question is
because I still am and you can't talk about it,
but I mean, I'll discuss with my panel. But I'm
still that confused. I'm very confused how the NYPD can

(01:24:09):
be involved in a case with Jonathan Majors. Then he
gets arrested and then the DA pursues charges but the
same NYPD concludes that Grace Jabbari should have been charged
with misdemeanor assault and criminal mischief. They did so other
than the DA office says we're not going to prosecute.
So it's just it's sort of befuckling to me. They

(01:24:32):
work hand in hand, but then go, oh, we're not
going to prosecute. And that's why I was wondering, did
the NYPD have sort of you know, was there any
conflict in the Fosse case between NYPD and the DA's
office with regards to whether he should be charged and prosecuted.

Speaker 23 (01:24:51):
I think because the DA's office started with he should
be prosecuted, the NYPD just followed.

Speaker 5 (01:24:56):
I mean, they weren't doing investigation to gather.

Speaker 23 (01:25:00):
They tried, but they weren't able to and so the
DA just put in the woman's word and the grand
jury and that was enough because the grand jury didn't
get to see the evidence.

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
And your question is is the right one, which is
who do we believe in? Why do we believe them right?

Speaker 23 (01:25:17):
It has been a horrible trend in our country's history,
and it continues today that prosecutor's offices do not pursue
cases where a black person is a victim under the
explanation of we don't think we could prove that case.

Speaker 12 (01:25:34):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:25:35):
Part of what you're saying is I don't really care, right,
I don't think that person's a victim.

Speaker 23 (01:25:41):
Another thing you're saying is I don't believe this black
person when they tell me what happened, even if others
believe them. I.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
As a person making the decision.

Speaker 23 (01:25:51):
I just wouldn't believe a black man when a white
woman is telling me something else happened, even though the
evidence proves that he's telling the truth and she's lying.

Speaker 5 (01:26:01):
And that is what Alvin Bragg's office is pushing. And
we saw it in the Foster trial.

Speaker 23 (01:26:05):
I mean, that was a felony rape trial, and they
do not care about evidence. They do not even keep
their mind open to this black man might be innocent
and I.

Speaker 5 (01:26:19):
Should believe him.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
And again, just just making sure there is a gag
order in the major's case, I am I.

Speaker 5 (01:26:28):
Am not allowed to discuss that case and I will
respect that.

Speaker 8 (01:26:31):
Got it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Thank you all right, Sargy. We appreciate you joining us.
We will thank you, sir for having what happens in
a couple of days in the case of Jonathan Major.
So thanks so much, Thank you be well. Going to
a break, we come back. My panel can't wait to
delve into this discussion. You're watching rollerd Unfiltered on the

(01:26:53):
Blackstar Network. We talk about blackness and what happened in
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Speaker 5 (01:27:07):
This is a genuine people power movement, a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 28 (01:28:33):
On the next Get Wealthy with me Deborah Owens, have
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Speaker 7 (01:28:40):
Wonder how to bring it to life?

Speaker 29 (01:28:42):
Well, it's all about turning problems into opportunities. On our
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Speaker 5 (01:28:54):
And now she's taking that money to the bank through.

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Global sales and major apartment stores.

Speaker 30 (01:29:01):
And I was just struggling with two or three bags
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That's right here on Get Wealthy only on black Star Network.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
It was up y'all. I'm Devon Franklin. It is always
a pleasure to be in the house. You are watching
Roland Martin Unfiltered. Stay right now, all right, folks, Let's
go to my panel. A lot to unpack there. Rinita,
I'm a congo and Julian Rinita, I want to I'm

(01:29:41):
a colomist. To start with you. I'm start with you
first of all. The false case is just unbelievable to
me that you can have those text messages and emails
after they slept together and they will still pursue rape
charges when you see the context of that. Just your thoughts,

(01:30:02):
just on on what's going on here and what you
heard the attorney there, the attorney for false but also
the attorney for job. The majors say that we have
to reconsider this notion of believe women because there are men,
black men who are being negatively impacted. In this case,

(01:30:24):
Adam Foss was found not guilty.

Speaker 22 (01:30:28):
It's frustrating, you know, because you know, do we are
we going to put respect or trust in the court
system or are we not? Are we going to have
innocent improve until proven guilty or are we not. And
when you talk about the timeline between twenty seventeen and
you know, twenty twenty one, when the allegations came into liking,
you're talking about the height of the media movement as well.
You know, the challenge was It's like there were so

(01:30:49):
many credible allegations that came up that people were inspired
to share, you know, real things that were eventually prosecuted
and found out to be true. And you know, many
survivors like they could even be you know, uplifted and
tell their story. And that's a good thing. We want
that in our society. We want people to be able
to come forward to speak to that. But to go

(01:31:10):
off of what she was saying, this mentality of well,
if it's said, is automatically going to be believed, and
people get torn down in situations like this, I mean,
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
That he was doing work with John Legend as well.

Speaker 22 (01:31:21):
And John Legend wrote a letter of apology, you know,
apologizing for for lifting him up and all of the
other things that all of the other award. The thing
that she was talking about all of a sudden gone,
and in this day and age, those types of things
just cannot be salvaged easily. And he was, you know,
a celebrity within his space, but he was not a
you know, an actor entertainment celebrity where many people have

(01:31:44):
the opportunity to recover their careers, but particularly as it
relates to black men. All it takes is the word
of somebody, and your entire career can be destroyed. And
it could happen to me, It could happen to to
you know, to you rolling, It can happen to so
many of us, and we're already in a system that
stacked against us.

Speaker 3 (01:32:00):
And to hear that from everything that he's done, that he's.

Speaker 22 (01:32:03):
On food stamps right now, I mean food stamps to
fall from grace to that particular area. We need to
be better as a society, and this is not the
first time it's gonna happen. I know that there's people
out there and say things, well, you know, oh, you
shouldn't messing with white girls and things like that. This
can happen messing with anybody of any race, of any background,
any sexual orientation in the light. Because we live in

(01:32:26):
that type of society where if you just come out
with an allegation of some sort. You can get celebrity status,
you can get money, you can get treated as so
many different ways.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
But if you're innocent, what do you get?

Speaker 22 (01:32:37):
And I think the example that you were given during
the break while in your last segment was the example
of the comedian as he's I'm sorry, you know, people
try to, you know, also destroy his career when he
was talking about, yeah, what you're saying happened was not happened.
This was consensual. When you said stop, I stopped, et cetera.
And again when these he said, she said, situations happens.

(01:32:57):
We're supposed to have real prosecutors, real defense attorneys, real
trials to really get to the bottom of this, But
in situations like this, it's really sad Roland because this
brother did clearly, from what's been put forward, did not
deserve this.

Speaker 3 (01:33:10):
But he's clearly not the only one as well, So
it hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
I think about Reneita, I think about when you talk
about impact, And while Ama Congo was talking, I mainly
thought of I was like, hm, brother guy played mister
Big and Sexy in the City chrisnov and I went,
I said, man, he was accused. I said, I wonder
what happened, and so it was twenty twenty one, two

(01:33:34):
years ago. He was accused of sexually assaulting a woman
in an LA apartment in two thousand and four. Another
woman said she was sexually assaulted in twenty fifteen, and
so this was one was seventeen years before. Then another
was six years before, and then a third person came forward.

(01:34:00):
He's not the allegations and what happened. Fired from his job.
Rolling Equalizer was supposed to have a twelve million dollar
tequila brand deal that was canceled. Was written out of
one of the sections written out of a movie via
editing in not sure where the case is, but nothing

(01:34:23):
has actually happened. So when you so the thing is
when you hear the attorney talk about again an accusation,
and essentially accusations today are treated as you're guilty until
proven innocent, as opposed to innocent until proven guilty. Then

(01:34:46):
you have some cases where they don't pursue a civil trial.
Excuse me, they don't pursue criminal proceedings. They only they
only go after a civil trial. It saw I mean,
I think about what happened with former Virginia liautenant government
justin Fairfax and to this day. I'm you know, I

(01:35:08):
remember covering the story and I see the accusations. You
had a black DA in Boston and a black DA
and I think it was Raleigh black. A black female
DA in Boston, a black female DA in Raleigh. Both
of them said if any of if one of these

(01:35:29):
accusers files a complaint, we're going to investigate. No complaint
was ever filed, but they did say they will participate
in an impeachment inquiry into Fairfax, and I just thought
that was I just thought that was strange that you
would have two black female das who were like, absolutely,

(01:35:51):
we will investigate. No complaint was ever filed, and so
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:35:59):
I have a different take on this.

Speaker 21 (01:36:00):
To me, the attorney came on here to run a
PR campaign, and if I were her clients, I will
be upset with the job that she is doing because
this is really a PR campaign to divide black folks.
What she's doing is setting up a scenario when you pitt. Obviously,
we know the history of what has happened to black
men in this country, but you also got to look
at the history of what has happened to black women
in this country. So when you set up a scenario

(01:36:20):
where you are saying that there is when you are
saying basically that folks cannot be like. The issue that
we had before was that when people would come up
and say that they were sexually assaulted, particularly black women,
they were never believed. Unless you had rock solid evidence,
you were never ever believed. And so the purpose of

(01:36:41):
the Me Too movement and the Believed Women movement was
just to say, if somebody says that they have been assaulted,
then believe them and investigate. So, like Ama Congo said,
through that movement, what came out of it was people
were reporting sexual assaults that took place. They then got investigated,
which prior to that, they were almost never instigated because.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
Actually, actually, actually I gotta, I gotta actually actually there
were cases that no, no, there were cases, but there
were cases that were not investigated. That's why I made
the distinction. There were some, there were some accusations that
led to actual investigations, criminal events against.

Speaker 21 (01:37:18):
The country, but across the country as a whole, Black
women when they report sexual sat or rape, a lot
of times it's not investigated, no one cares, and it
is never right right. And so what I'm saying is
my issue with the attorneys that she's setting up a
dynamic where you almost have to pick a side between
believing black women versus believe in black men.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
Even but that's that's not that's not what you're said. Though,
that's not what but no, no, no, no, hold.

Speaker 21 (01:37:44):
On, let me finish, because that is the way that
I heard it. When she said that this, she basically
made the point that this whole me too and believe
women was a completely bad thing. And what I'm showing
to what I'm saying about what she's saying is that
that was not a completely bad thing. It's still not
completely bad thing because look at it this way. If
somebody said there are certain crimes where if you say
that someone has done something to you, people automatically believe

(01:38:05):
you and they go ahead and follow up on an investigation.
For example, if I say that I have been robbed,
no one is going to immediately call me a liar.
People will say, Okay, she got robbed, let's figure out
who robbed her. When it comes to sexual assault, this
is one of those crimes that black women, in particular,
if they women in general, but more specifically black women,
if they say that they have been raped or sexually

(01:38:26):
assaulted people automatically say you're a liar until you can
prove it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
But she didn't, Bernita, She wasn't talking about black women.
She specific in this case, but in one second, one second,
no no, no, as a whole no no, no, no,
no no, she specifically, she's specifically mentioned when white women
have accused black women of rape.

Speaker 21 (01:38:44):
She did what I'm listening right, let me finish Rolland
what I'm saying is she left black women out of
this conversation because she said that the whole me too
and the whole believe women was not that that was
bad in general, because what it does is automatically sets
up something where you just believe women.

Speaker 5 (01:39:03):
What I am saying and that is that that is true.

Speaker 21 (01:39:06):
You are seeing in the cases that she was referencing
people who it sounds like from the evidence, are not
telling the truth. But where that was a help was
to black women who previously, if they said that they
were sexually assaulted or raped or anything, people were not
starting at a neutral position of Okay, let's just investigate
and see if this happened. They were just completely cast

(01:39:26):
a sign know.

Speaker 15 (01:39:27):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
But what this is again I'm she First of all,
she was specifically talking about the Adam Foster case, who's
an African American man who was accused of rate by
a white woman. The thing that, again, what I heard
her say, is that are you innocent until proven guilty?

(01:39:50):
Her biggest criticism, her biggest criticism is that, as she described,
there was no real investigation. You said, allegation, investment, mitigation.
I just gave an example in the case of justin Fairfax,
where there were allegations, two black female prosecutors said, if

(01:40:10):
a complaint, a criminal complaint is filed, we will investigate.
Yet the two black women who file, who made the
allegation against them, never filed the complaint, so therefore there
was never an investigation.

Speaker 14 (01:40:25):
Right.

Speaker 21 (01:40:25):
But here's where I'm trying to round the corner for you,
which is that before that movement, you would have a complaint,
and if it came from a black woman in particular,
statistically for that to be fought up on, it was
never investigated.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
I'm aware of that. So, first of all, I don't
need to be so, but I'm I'm but I'm but
I'm stating what she was speaking of.

Speaker 14 (01:40:47):
Right, I know.

Speaker 21 (01:40:47):
But when I'm telling you is she has a blind
spot because where she dogged the Believed Women movement, what
I and that philosophy. What I'm saying is that that
philosophy is not to say that women that there can
be no fault accusers. That philosophy is just to say
at least started neutral, so if somebody says that they
have been assaulted, at least follow up on those things
and investigate it. And so where she took it from

(01:41:09):
the perspective of we're only talking about black men who
have been falsely accused, what I am saying is that
she's trying to.

Speaker 5 (01:41:17):
Throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Speaker 21 (01:41:18):
Everybody should be agreed at one point, which is that
if somebody says that they have been assaulted or raped,
then we need to start at a neutral position of
take believe that if they say that they have been okay,
let's go from there and do an investigation, which is
not the set point that most folks come from. In
addition to that, she left out a lot of how
government works. Now I agree with her on some of

(01:41:39):
the things she said, and that really any complaint filed
against you is going to give you a black mark.
If anybody's accused of child abuse. You're gonna lose contracts,
You're gonna lose all kinds of things. That is the
way that our criminal justice system is set up. The
part where she talked about, well the person that a
complaint was never actually filed, but they read it in
a medium article, it's like, but if you talk to

(01:42:00):
any prosecutor. And I'm not saying this is right, but
I'm just saying that she should have at least leveled
with you all and been real about how government.

Speaker 5 (01:42:06):
Works and how prosecutors work.

Speaker 21 (01:42:08):
Prosecutors will tell you that their job is to protect
the public and so for example.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
But that's but here's the deal though, let me but
let's be real clear. She's a defense Attorney's here's the deal.

Speaker 10 (01:42:20):
Though.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Her job is a defense attorney is to defend her client.
And that's just so and so that so again, I
understand what I understand what a prosecutor does, what a
defense attorney does. The thing for me, the thing one second,
the thing for me because I know Julian trying to
step in as well. The thing for me that I
still go back to, which I do believe is important,

(01:42:45):
is that if an allegation is made that you actually
have an investigation. I'm still confused by the Foss case
that you could have text message and emails of someone
pursuing this guy but accused him of rape, but you
have you have text message and emails that completely contradict that.

(01:43:07):
I just don't think somebody is going to be rape
and then going to be pursuing that guy after the fact.
And so it's interesting to me that this here still
went all the way to a trial. And so it
speaks to Julian this notion of what is due process
and do we actually do we actually see it as

(01:43:28):
in it's until proven guilty or is it really the reverse.

Speaker 7 (01:43:32):
Well, it depends on who it is, obviously. I mean,
if you look at the history of lynching, I know
y'all think I have a one tone pony on this,
but that's why I am.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
These days.

Speaker 7 (01:43:40):
If you look at the history of lynching, people didn't
have any due process.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
Oh hell no, that was that was a rumor, and
it was it was indicted, trial, jury, sentencing, all done
in thirty minutes.

Speaker 7 (01:43:55):
There are even a couple of cases I found where
because somebody was a cute, it was a crime and
they were able to flee. In one case, the band's
sister was lynched because they couldn't get him, so they
got her.

Speaker 8 (01:44:07):
Got it.

Speaker 7 (01:44:08):
When we talk about this intersection between race and gender,
I mean, I don't completely agree with Rinita, partially but
not completely, because I don't think that that lady you
had on necessarily left out black women. Black women weren't
in this. What I think she was doing was as
you said, she's a defense attorney. She was basically defending

(01:44:29):
her client. But whenever we talk about rape, I always
want to mention the name of Recie Taylor. Oprah mentioned her,
and I think in Academy Awards and others have mentioned her.
This was a black woman who was abducted by seven
white men in the tribot had been six, y'all know
I sometimes I exaggerated either six or seven white men
in the car. They took her, They brutalized her, They

(01:44:51):
raped her so bad she could not have children anymore.
And then the white boys said she wanted to go
with them, right, that that was her choice. Who chooses
to be raped by six people? She had a three
year old, She can never have any other children. And
so when we talk about race and gender and rape
and accusations. We always have to keep her in mind,

(01:45:13):
which does mean we do have to pay attention. We say,
believe the woman. What are we saying about black women?
But at the same time, it just seems to me,
especially when we do the next case about people coming
back five and six and ten years later. I mean,
I have a tendency to believe black women. I have
a tendency not to believe white women. Why because of

(01:45:34):
the history. I have a tendency to believe black men.
Because of the history I don't I have a tendency
not to believe white men because of the history. I
am seeped in the history. And that's where my implicit
bias is is we know what the how the system
treats black people. But at the same time, you know,
there's something to be said for the silencing of all women.

(01:45:56):
There's something to be said for the fact that women
are so many cases. If women in the nineteen fifties
said they were raped, they became the hot nobody wanted
they became. How did that happen? What were you wearing,
what did you say, did you go to the bar?
All of those things. So I think it's very complicated

(01:46:17):
I don't have a straight line on this. I have
a straight line clearly on Adam Foster. This is the
craziest thing I've ever heard. You stopped the band for
a couple of years, you send him naked pictures and
whatever else, and then he raped you. I don't think so,
but so, I mean in his case, I do it
so many of these other cases.

Speaker 3 (01:46:34):
Roland.

Speaker 7 (01:46:35):
As I've gotten older, I will say I have more
mixed feelings. I mean, twenty years ago, I'd be like, yeah,
believe the woman. Now I'm like, we have to pay
more attention to the nuances. The justin Fairca. Facts case
that was such a tragedy. That young brother had so
much promise and potential, and these two sisters, one of

(01:46:57):
them who them mine, uh that the professor the other
one there was a lot of evidence that she was
kind of little Craik craig.

Speaker 6 (01:47:06):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:47:06):
The sister who was a professor in California less so,
but there, but there were there, there was countervailing something,
but it wasn't evidence because nobody ever went to court.
But the brother ended up he was a shoe in
to be governor when whoever the guy was, uh, you
know the one with the blackface.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
I forgot his right right and he was gonna he
was gonna likely step down mm hmm.

Speaker 7 (01:47:32):
And then this comes up, and so one wonders about that.
I found it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
That's probably the biggest thing that probably still and I
was actually saying this even when that happened, that I
what what what? What confused me immensely during that whole
deal with Justin Fairfax was two black female das saying
we will absolutely investigate if a complaint is filed. No

(01:47:59):
complaint was ever filed, yet both women said they would
participate in an impeachment inquiry that the Republicans wanted to
have against Fairfax. And I said, I'm confused. If you're
seeking justice, why would you not file a criminal complaint?

Speaker 14 (01:48:19):
But you?

Speaker 10 (01:48:21):
But you? I never but you, but you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
Would participate in an impeachment inquiry. That was my And
again that wasn't that wasn't me. Let me be very clear,
Justin Fairfax is an alpha, He's in the same Boulet chapter.
It wasn't taken a side. I was like, I was
just confused by that because I would think that if
you're a black woman and then you go public, that
you absolutely would want a black female prosecutor someone to

(01:48:48):
investigate your case. I to this day, I still don't
understand why a complaint, criminal complaint was never filed by
either woman with a black female DA in both locations.

Speaker 7 (01:49:04):
Criminal activity one second.

Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
Both at the same time. Julian then Rinina.

Speaker 7 (01:49:10):
Okay, more than likely there was no criminal activity. One
of the things that one of my insiders in Virginia
said to me is that look at what the difference
would be between Justin as governor and that guy who's governor.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Now, well it was it was Ralph Northam who was
the then governor, and then of course when the election
came around, TIERR mcaulliff ran on the Democratic side, and
then of course youngkin One as a Republican.

Speaker 7 (01:49:35):
Here's the issue, Roland, when you look at some of
the things that were pending. There was a pipeline issue,
the pipeline issue that Justin did not support and Northam
support it got it. And what wonder is what the
oil and gas money was doing behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
That's all we need to go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:49:53):
Yeah, I want to make Claire a few things.

Speaker 21 (01:49:55):
My comments are not in reference specifically about Justin Fairfax
Major or Fosse. I'm saying take all those cases aside
in the specifics of it. When I'm saying number one
to what you just said, rolling about why people wouldn't
file criminal criminal complaints complaints. More and more the survivors
of sexual assault are saying they don't file complaints because
all that happens is the police drag you in, go

(01:50:16):
through your whole sexual history. Next thing you know, you're
in court, and it's really just embarrassing and re traumatizing
for you. So a lot of people don't.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
File crimber need I wasn't speaking in general. Here's what
I was still confused by. How could someone say, I'm
never gonna I'm not gonna file a criminal complaint, but
I'll participate in an impeachment inquiry that if you're that's what.

Speaker 21 (01:50:38):
Because well, that's why just explained, because that a lot
of times these cases can take hold on a lot
of times these cases can take years to go to court,
and so you're rehashing the trauma over and over.

Speaker 2 (01:50:47):
So what I'm saying, but that, but but that, but that,
But that's what would have happened one second, That's what
would have happened in an impeachment inquiry, and guess what
and and guess what they're ever wasn't impeachment inquiry? There
never was so so so one second, hold Up'm gonna
fish this point again if I if I go public

(01:51:10):
and I'm seeking justice again, I don't file a criminal
complaint with two black female DA's, but I do say
our participate in the impeachment inquiry? Am I not rehashing
the rehashing what I say took place?

Speaker 5 (01:51:27):
And one is a much one is a much shorter
time frame, and and maybe they and.

Speaker 2 (01:51:31):
I don't know a lot that never happened one day,
why they What I'm saying is hullo, hold Julian, Julian.

Speaker 21 (01:51:39):
Is probably a shorter timeline. It didn't happen when you,
It didn't happen. But I'm saying is when those do happen,
they usually happen in the Senate, and they usually are
a much more defined time frame. So what I'm saying
is that victims have a lot of different reasons why
they will will not report to police. But the comment
I really wanted to make.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
Holda hold up. I want to finish that before you
go to your comment. So, so if you didn't, So
if the impeachment inquiry never happened, granted, you never follow
a criminal complaint, so.

Speaker 21 (01:52:10):
Because that's a big, long process to go through the
course a lot, I'm telling you a lot of people
are making excision nowadays. And we saw bills in the
Georgia General Assembly having to do with sexual assault that
when they required people to file a complaint, a lot
of people, including myself, had pushedback for that because the
process has not been worked out for how to deal
with people who have had something happen to them.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
Right here, well right here in New York. And to
add on foss case, the woman filed a complaint. First
of all, she wrote a piece into November twenty twenty,
but it was finished three years later, number twenty twenty three,
with an actual trial. The complaints against Justin Fairfax took
place more than five years ago, and nothing is again again.

(01:52:51):
I understand about that, I understand about the whole deal
about what takes time. What is still the number one
thing for me that makes no sense is I don't
want to file a criminal complaint with two black female DA's,
but I will participate in an impeachment inquiry that never happened.

(01:53:12):
So b never happened, and so I never did a
so if I wanted justice, nothing ever happened. It's just sitting.
The allegation is just sitting out there in the wind,
and there was actually no resolving of it other than
the complaint was alleged.

Speaker 21 (01:53:32):
But go ahead, let me finishment. But what I'm telling
you Roland, is that people now are thinking twice about
filing criminal compaints complaints, and it's different from victim to victim,
that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
Or personal Okay, but guess what a criminal complaint Okay,
guess what a criminal complaint wasn't filed they said product
in the peachment inquiry, and a civil lawsuit was never filed.

Speaker 21 (01:53:54):
Come on, right, And like I said, victims make people
are rethinking how they want to go about these things,
and they say that they have been assaulted.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
So the only so, the only in the case of
justin Fairfax, the only thing that that one one to
achieve was solely making the allegation. No no, no, no,
but but that but no, no, but no no, but
that's what they did. But that's not that. But that's
why I'm not speaking broadly. I'm not speaking broadly. That's

(01:54:21):
why when I look at case by case, when I
look at this whole deal here and the reason I
had pre on when I read the Adam Foster case,
what made no sense to me is Okay, you say
you were raped. He says it was consensual. Then we
find out that she literally was sending text messages and

(01:54:41):
emails after the fact. Okay, And so I'm sitting there going,
how can a prosecutor pursue a guilty verdict against somebody
when you literally have evidence of the of the woman
making the accusation still trying to get with the brother?
How was that? How was that actually raped? And so

(01:55:02):
I and so so I still believe because here's the deal.
I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. I do
believe in listening to something like I got nine nieces.
I believe in listening to a woman. I believe in
hearing her out. I believe in believing her. But also
there has to be investigations, I think, and the reason

(01:55:23):
I bringing up fair Fax that is a perfect example
of It was an accusation. There was no investigation, there
was no criminal complaint, there was no civil lawsuit, and
the end result was accusation. He never runs. Well, he
ran but got got blown out and so and now

(01:55:43):
that is forever out there and it didn't get resolved
either way. It's just sitting out there and that that
is still confusing to me. That and I would think
if I got two black I got two black female prosecutors,
and again I got two.

Speaker 5 (01:56:01):
Go ahead, because we're saying the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
So what I actually we're not, well, go ahead, No.

Speaker 21 (01:56:07):
We are because the part where you said that if
somebody says that they've been assaulted, it needs to be investigated.
That is the same thing as believe women, believe them
enough to at least do an investigation. And so everything
you brought up with false fairbacks and all them, I
am not involved in those cases. I do not know
a lot of details about those cases. I'm just giving
you potential reasons of why people may have done what
they have done.

Speaker 5 (01:56:27):
I am not saying that what they did was correct.

Speaker 21 (01:56:28):
What I am saying is that when Priya is saying
that this theory of believe women is bad, what I'm
saying is that for black women, because this is a
show for black viewers, for black women, what they need
to understand is when she is demonizing to believe women.
All people are saying is and particularly for black women,
what that means is if you say you've been assaulted,
there will just at least be an investigation and will

(01:56:49):
be taken seriously. Prior to Me Too and people saying
believe women, black women were saying they were assaulted and
there was not even an investigation. It was just like
people are like, you're just a lie until you can
prove it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
But they're also well, they're also but there also are
black men watching who also right, well and again and
again and well, that's what Pria said, do an investigation.
And her problem was she called it a faulty investigation
by the New York DIA's office. And look what happened.

(01:57:22):
He was acquitted. Julian final comment and then a a congo,
your closes out, and I got to go to my
final guest.

Speaker 7 (01:57:29):
Well, again, when you have the intersection of race and gender,
you're also going to have something that's very complicated. In
the just In case, I mean, I'm a little biased
because I was a big Justin fan, but the batter
of the fact, what Nita says that well, they don't
want to be exposed. Well, these women exposed themselves. They
came forward and said stuff that may or may not
have been true, may or may not have been true,

(01:57:50):
and in one case there's some evidence that simply was
not true. But all the reprobation, all the whatever they got,
they got it anyway. They got it because they there.
So if you're going to step out there, believe in yourself,
believe in your case, and take it to damn court.
Don't just throw allegations out for reporters to speculate about.

(01:58:11):
Take it to court if you really believe that have
a good lord and improve it. I mean, black women
historically have not been believed, but increasingly we are being believed.
And those sisters, if they thought, if they thought they
had credible cases, they could have taken them to court,
they chose not to. And what we can speculate about why,
my speculation is because some.

Speaker 3 (01:58:30):
Of that stuff just did not happen on a congo.

Speaker 22 (01:58:35):
We need to create an infrastructure where people cannot have
their entire lives destroyed over our allegations that are proven
to be false or when trials prove that there's innocence.

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
I definitely stand with you know, we have to.

Speaker 22 (01:58:50):
Believe the accusers, and we have to have the proper
investigations like the Azarnita is talking about. But as you're
saying Roland as well, you know, when certain things don't
add up should be you know, A and B and
then C should come after on A and B and
you get F or something like that, or one plus
two's equaling seven, then people need to fall back and
we need to not take people's lives. We don't want

(01:59:11):
the victims to have their lives stolen, and we don't
want the people to who are accused to become victims
as well. And this mondy's the water for everybody, and
it's going to put us in situations where more people
are afraid to come forward truthfully, especially when there are
celebrity cases involved, because the way this infrastructure works, people
will go after them and destroy them as well.

Speaker 3 (01:59:30):
So on these.

Speaker 22 (01:59:30):
Particular cases that we've been talking about, you know, it's
very disappointing what happened with Justin, What'll happened with Fossil,
see what happens with the Major's case.

Speaker 3 (01:59:39):
Even though there's some you know, shadiness that's.

Speaker 22 (01:59:40):
Going on right there, but it makes it harder for
people to come forward who are really abused, and it
makes it harder for people to prove themselves innocent when
we have an infrastructure media, social media that's ready to try.

Speaker 3 (01:59:53):
Them, and that's an infrastructure that we have to change.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
And I still I got questions. I don't understand in
the major's case, how the DA's office can pursue assault
charges against him based upon him being arrested by the NYPD,
but then the NYPD arresting his accuser, then the prosecutors

(02:00:19):
choosing not to prosecutor dropping those charges against her, probably
because they need her to testify against him, and the
last thing you need is her credibility being shot by
her testifying against him, with her already being charged with
assault herself by NYPD. So in that case, I am

(02:00:43):
still utterly I would love to hear in the prosecutor's
office said, well, you know, we said we dropped the charges.
I'm just confused that the cops would say there's enough
evidence to charge her with assault, even if it's a
misdemeanor salt, but the DA says, we're dropping the charges

(02:01:04):
against her, but we're pursuing the charges against him when
both people are involved in the same case. That trial
begins on Wednesday. Will we keep you up to date
as well? All right, folks, gotta go to break we
come back. Thanksgiving weekend is over. I know y'all well,

(02:01:24):
like me an other folk. Y'all had a good time
with your family, but I'm sure you stepped on that
scale and when what and the hell happened? Qutterback is here.
We talk about how do we get back on track
post Thanksgiving, at least to get you right for a
month for Christmas. Rolls up, you're watching rolling right down

(02:01:45):
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Speaker 21 (02:02:28):
This is a genuine people power movement, a lot of
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You.

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All money makes this possible. Check some money gouards go
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Speaker 5 (02:03:22):
Hatred on the streets, a horrific scene.

Speaker 23 (02:03:24):
White nationalists rally that descended into deadly violence.

Speaker 2 (02:03:31):
White people are moving their their mine.

Speaker 11 (02:03:34):
So Maguary pro Trump and mart storms the US Capital.

Speaker 10 (02:03:37):
Ver s show.

Speaker 2 (02:03:38):
We're about to see the lives of what I call
white minority resistance.

Speaker 24 (02:03:42):
We have seen white folks in this country who simply
cannot tolerate black folks the voting.

Speaker 25 (02:03:48):
I think what we're seeing is the inevitable result of
violent denial.

Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
This is part of American history.

Speaker 25 (02:03:54):
Every time that people of color have made progress, whether
real versusbolic, there has been that. Carol Anderson at every
university calls white rage as a backlash.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
Since the wife of the Proud Boys and the Boogaboo
Boys America, There's going.

Speaker 6 (02:04:08):
To be more of this.

Speaker 7 (02:04:10):
There's all the prod.

Speaker 26 (02:04:11):
This country just getting increasingly racist and its behaviors and
its attitudes because of the fear of.

Speaker 27 (02:04:19):
White people with fe that you're taking our job, They're
taking out resources, they're taking out women.

Speaker 2 (02:04:24):
This is white Field.

Speaker 4 (02:04:41):
I am Dost Jackie Hood Martin, and I have a
question for you.

Speaker 31 (02:04:44):
Ever feel as if your life is teetering and weight
and pressure of the world is consistently on your shoulders, Well,
let me tell you, Living a balance life isn't easy.

Speaker 4 (02:04:52):
Join me each Tuesday on black Star Network for a
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Speaker 31 (02:04:56):
But Dtor Jackie will laugh together, cry together, pulling ourselves
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Speaker 4 (02:05:02):
So join me for new shows each Tuesday on Blackstar Network.
A Balanced Life was doctor Jackie.

Speaker 2 (02:05:14):
Bruce Smith, creator and executive producer of The Proud Family,
Louder and Prouder, and Washington Rowland Martin. Alright, folks, it

(02:05:44):
is Monday, the Monday after Thanksgiving, and I'm sure a
lot of y'all man, y'all got home, y'all got on
that scale and you went, what the hell just happened
over the last four days? All the Thanksgiving on Thursday.
Let's just real clear, we just called Thanksgiving weekend. Uh.
So you know, all the rules went out the window

(02:06:07):
like crazy. This y'all got the video ready. This was
my family. We were at my sister's house and it
was food galore. Lord had mercy. The kitchen was jam packed.

Speaker 16 (02:06:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:06:20):
And of course y'all know how it is you got
left up was on Friday, Saturday, and you close it
out on Sunday.

Speaker 10 (02:06:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:06:28):
You take the stuff and you figure out other stuff
to hook it up with.

Speaker 5 (02:06:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:06:31):
And so now what did you do after all the
damage has been done? Putting back? Joins us. Glad to
have him on the show. All right, So somebody sent
me So I saw somebody almost some elemphatic detox massage,
just something people were saying, oh, you need to be
doing the detox. I've seen all kinds of other stuff.

(02:06:54):
So just well, your thoughts are on this, because again,
folks did some damage over the last several days.

Speaker 10 (02:07:00):
Yeah, and and nobody's exempt. I even tried. I tried
to get it right. I tried to do my thing.
I recommend a certain way to eat on the holidays, right,
and then my brother invites me over the next day.
It's like, hey, I want to cook for you and
baby girl. Like, okay, cool, we go there.

Speaker 2 (02:07:16):
You got games, you had NFL games, college games.

Speaker 10 (02:07:20):
There was one vegetable side and like five car sides.

Speaker 2 (02:07:24):
I'm not vegetables, no, no, no.

Speaker 10 (02:07:28):
I looked for the vegetables.

Speaker 2 (02:07:29):
I saw something. I saw some yams. That's not a vegetable, no, man.
That was a corn cast role. That's not a vestable.

Speaker 8 (02:07:36):
Nah man.

Speaker 2 (02:07:37):
Okay, I'm trying to think. I think I saw some
green beans.

Speaker 10 (02:07:40):
Okay, green beans we can work with, right.

Speaker 2 (02:07:41):
I saw that. I saw that.

Speaker 10 (02:07:42):
You saw it.

Speaker 2 (02:07:44):
Do I had some? Okay, don't have some? I stop.
I'm saying it was that I remember. I remember that
was something green that was present, right.

Speaker 10 (02:07:51):
And so there in Liza challenge. So the problem I
have with the idea of cleanses, it's most of the
time when most people talk about cleanses, it's always this
extreme thing that they're doing. It's an aberration to their lifestyle, right,
and that's not gonna be sustainable.

Speaker 12 (02:08:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:08:08):
I mean, you can do it like I've done like
three or four times, and it's like, oh man, laws
eighteen pounds or a twenty one day cleanse. But all right,
what you're gonna do after the beat.

Speaker 10 (02:08:19):
A French fry? And also it all comes back right,
So what I really, what I really advocate, is eating
on program. What I call it on program. Any food
that will take you towards your fitness goal is on program.
So depending on your situation, some foods may be different
for others, depending on where you are. If you're maintaining
versus trying to actually lose weight, gotcha, And if you're
actually trying to lose weight, you gotta change something now again,

(02:08:43):
I get it. It's the holidays you just mentioned. You've
got Thanksgiving, You've got the whole weekend, and you.

Speaker 2 (02:08:48):
About to have Christmas parties coming up.

Speaker 10 (02:08:50):
Oh my goodness, you about to have two years, right,
somebody's birthday is just gonna fall in there anyway, So
all these things are gonna happen. So what you've got
to figure out is how to navigate these things and
tell legently as opposed to just trying to do these
abrupt I'm gonna just eat how I feel like eat, right,
and then's slamming out of it. So what you want
to do, obviously you want to eat more fruits and vegetables.
The simple thing that I always tell people to do

(02:09:12):
is if you can, if it's a potluck situation, bring
something with you that you know you enjoy, but is green,
a salad, you know, some Brussels sprouts. Bring something with
you so that you know.

Speaker 2 (02:09:25):
At least you've got So so let's say, okay, find you.
So you're coming out of things given and they say
there was lots of cakes and pies and stuff. Right,
So are you saying, all right, yo, go today's Monday.

Speaker 33 (02:09:38):
Go to the store.

Speaker 2 (02:09:38):
Get you some green apples, Get you some and what
fruits to get, because that's the other thing as well.

Speaker 10 (02:09:44):
Yes, So anything that's in the apples family, if you
don't if you have a version of apples, berries, if
you have an a version of berries, melons, kiwi.

Speaker 2 (02:09:52):
So when we say berries, blackberries, berries, blueberries.

Speaker 10 (02:09:55):
Any berries for a dried cranberry, okay, got it? Berries,
any melons, any apples, those are all working your favor.
Drink a lot of water. You got some water right there.
Drink a lot of water, and I'll and I'll tell
you this. We eat at these special occasions, like there
are special occasions that will never occur again.

Speaker 2 (02:10:13):
We just literally named including again. It's gonna happen first
of all, Thanksgiving, November, Christmas, in December. You know what's
gonna happen with King Holiday in the middle of January.
New Year is gonna be super Bowl.

Speaker 10 (02:10:28):
Man, It's always gonna be something. So when you think
about it from that perspective. But the thing is a
lot of us eat like it's a special occasion when
it's not a special occasion. You know, we feast, we
go to restaurants and do all these things when it's
not a special occasion. So what you want to do
is you want to make at least half of your
plate fruits, vegetables preferably raw so like salad and some fruit,

(02:10:48):
whatever those options are. You want to make a quarter
of your plate cooked vegetables, okay, and then that last
quarter of your plate how at it? Whoever?

Speaker 2 (02:10:56):
Okay? So how many some of my mantari starts. He's
a firm believer. You eat five times a day, but
it terms but much smaller meals. Because what he says
is that he says, look, when you're eating five meals
a day, and again you're regulating. So like he may
he may have. One that he talked about was let's
say four ounces of a meat and then let's say
one cup of one cup of a vegetable. He said,

(02:11:19):
but if you're eating every three hours, then you're not
starving your body and you're drinking water in between. So
so he said portion control because you said, have your
game plan. So what you're saying there still your portion control.

Speaker 10 (02:11:33):
Porch control is tough when you talk about foods that
you're addicted to them.

Speaker 2 (02:11:38):
I had the portion controls straight on Thanksgiving exceptcept except
that table what my mama's pineapple cream cheese cake was exactly.

Speaker 10 (02:11:50):
Then then it all goes out.

Speaker 2 (02:11:51):
With no portion control. There is no portion control whenever
that cake is involved.

Speaker 10 (02:11:54):
There is no such thing as portion control when it
comes to addiction. So what I always tell people is,
but if you know you're going to go to this bit,
you know you're gonna go to this dinner, grabbing apple
or something on your way there, eat something, don't don't.
What we like to do is we say, Okay, I'm
not gonna eat until Christmas dinner. I'm not gonna eat
until Thanksgiving dinner.

Speaker 2 (02:12:10):
Well, then you're solving yourself.

Speaker 10 (02:12:11):
So you starve yourself. So you get there, it's no
matter what your game is out the window.

Speaker 2 (02:12:15):
Okay, well okay, but so here's the whole deal bomb
line is, folks did it. So now you're back. So
I think today I had an early flight out of Houston,
so it's like six thirty in the morning. So I
think I grabbed bacon, bacon, eggs, sandwich, didn't didn't do it,
didn't do chips or anything on the plane, got hold
of the protein drink uh, and then uh, I say, okay,

(02:12:37):
let me drink this and try to get as much water.
So again, coming back and when I leave here, definitely
run by getting some green apples. So again, now that
you're back in the mix, okay, what.

Speaker 10 (02:12:47):
You want to do.

Speaker 2 (02:12:48):
What you want to do is you can't continue the
thanks the post Thanksgiving things for the next seven for
the next forty hours. You can't. You can't.

Speaker 10 (02:12:54):
So what you want to do is eat circumspect as
you go, you know, eat so even even as even
in the days of the holidays, eat normally, and then
let these apparations be aperrations. Like I said, if you
fruit is your best friend.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
So you just eat some fruit. Find the fruit you like,
I mean, get you some fruit. Put put it in.
Uh but also how much though, let's so put it in.
Put it like in a container. So if you do it, okay.
So let's say if if I got some I got
some blackberries. Let's sake, I got some blackberries, some raspberry boom,
I throw in a green apple.

Speaker 8 (02:13:26):
So lots.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
So why did my protein shape shout? I do banana?
My protein shape?

Speaker 10 (02:13:29):
No bananas, No bananas at all. No bananas. The bananas.
Bananas will do you dirty because bananas are starchy carbs,
and they're gonna trigger all those those addictions. They're gonna
make you start going wild. Anyway, here's the thing with fruit.
I've never had to tell somebody portion control.

Speaker 2 (02:13:45):
Of the apple.

Speaker 10 (02:13:45):
If I give you five apples, the true love, you're
gonna eat one and you're gonna say those other four nice,
you know what I mean. You don't do that with cookies.
We don't do that with press. So the foods that
are great for you, like even your water you're pasting yourself.
You didn't just kill that whole thing unless it was
a hot thing. You just finished working out, you sip
your water. Any food that's really on program, you will
not consume addictively. So just take as much as you

(02:14:06):
want and you'll find yourself looking at it like, Okay,
I had an apple, I have some berries. If I
give you ten pounds of strawberries, you're not gonna eat
all ten pounds eat. You'll eat as mad as you need,
and you'll put the rest away.

Speaker 2 (02:14:16):
Questions for the panel, Let's see here, let's see who
probably lost their mind for Thanksgiving. Julian, you know you did,
so go ahead, and what's your first question? You know
you did?

Speaker 7 (02:14:29):
Actually, I did not lose. I went to somebody's house
and had a nice balanced meal that included a capon,
three vegetables. Excuse me, No, I did not.

Speaker 2 (02:14:38):
I't behind the glasses of wine you had.

Speaker 7 (02:14:42):
That's another story.

Speaker 2 (02:14:44):
I know s I knew see she thought I was
going to lose them out with the food. I knew
the alcohol was involved.

Speaker 10 (02:14:51):
There's always something.

Speaker 14 (02:14:52):
Go ahead.

Speaker 7 (02:14:54):
I had a couple of bargaritas, maybe three. That's another story.
My question, I mean you talking about the cleansing. I
don't believe in the I went to you about this
episodic cleansing and living right for about five minutes and
going back to your old habit. But so going forward,
we got about six weeks a party it between Christmas
and then Super Bowl, Doctor King, New Year's What were

(02:15:17):
you said? People should?

Speaker 6 (02:15:19):
What?

Speaker 10 (02:15:20):
What?

Speaker 6 (02:15:20):
What?

Speaker 7 (02:15:21):
What do I try to say? What guide posts should
people take with them no matter where they are? You
talked about the apples. There should be something behind your
I mean behind my head is always veggies, because I
love veggies. You always try to have more vegies. What's
the guidepost that you suggest people have behind their head
as they go to these groating tables of wonderful looking
food and rolling. Thanks time to invite me to your

(02:15:43):
mama's house.

Speaker 2 (02:15:43):
I eat more, girl.

Speaker 10 (02:15:46):
So here's the deal. Wow, So here's the deal. If
you look at your plate as a pie chart, fifty
of that plate should be raw fruit or veggie options.
Twenty five percent of that plate should be your cooked
veggie options, your roasted Brussels sprouts, your green beans, that role.
And mentioned that last twenty five percent. Have what you want,
whatever it is. You can't stack vertically now you gotta
stack side by side. But have whatever you want. And

(02:16:08):
I actually have a holiday eating guy. So anybody watching,
if you just DM me your email address, I'll send
you a whole holiday eating god. That'll show you how
to navigate this. But you want, basically, in essence, seventy
five of your consumption, seventy five percent of your consumption
to be plants and fruit, and then that remain twenty
five you can get away with for now. But then
when you're in between these things, try don't don't take

(02:16:29):
the doggie bags home, don't take the extra stuff home.
Enjoy it for what it's worth when you're there, and
then leave it at that experience. Because these experiences, as
we just discussed, are gonna keep coming up. They're gonna
keep coming around.

Speaker 2 (02:16:39):
What's a reasonal amount of weight to lose in a week?

Speaker 10 (02:16:43):
Two pounds two two?

Speaker 2 (02:16:46):
So you can do more If you weigh yourself today
and you down to next Monday, that was a good week.

Speaker 10 (02:16:53):
It's a goodie. Now, what I would also tell people, now,
we've got these scales to give you your body five percentage.
Pay attention to that even more than the weight. If
you're losing point five percent body fat percentage, give or
take one, let's just say point four. If you're losing
that and losing weight. You're losing weight the right way.
If you lose weight and you see your body FA
percentage go up, you're actually starving yourself and that's going
to work against you in the end.

Speaker 2 (02:17:14):
Okay, all right, I'm a cotton go.

Speaker 3 (02:17:17):
Yeah, mister Maric. I really appreciate all of the work
that you do and your messages online.

Speaker 8 (02:17:21):
And the like.

Speaker 22 (02:17:22):
As you're talking about the fruits and vegetables, do you
distinguish between One of my challenges when I'm traveling is
the whole difference between you know, organic versus non organic.
Are there you know, weight concerns or sugar concerns that
we should be dealing with when it comes to non
organic versus organic fruits and vegetables as we're trying to
work our way back to where we want to be.

Speaker 10 (02:17:43):
That's a great question. Ideally organic foods are better, but
at the same time, sometimes they're more expensive sometimes organic.
It all depends on where you're starting, because if the
seeds are genetically modified, they're not really organic to start with.
If the fertilizer isn't organic, then it's still not technically organic.
So what I would really advocate for people to do
is get in the habit of eating vegetables, then get

(02:18:04):
fancy about it after.

Speaker 2 (02:18:08):
Nada.

Speaker 21 (02:18:10):
Thanks for being on This is very helpful information you're
giving us. So my question is a lot of times
when we know we're gonna have a huge meal, family meal,
whether it's Thanksgiving or Christmas, a lot of times people's
strategy can be I'm not gonna eat anything all day
because i know I'm gonna have a huge Thanksgiving or
Christmas dinner.

Speaker 2 (02:18:25):
Boo, you just made a mistake.

Speaker 5 (02:18:28):
That was my question.

Speaker 21 (02:18:29):
Do you think that that is a good idea or
should people eat small meals so that you don't eat
that much when you get to Thanksgiving or dinner?

Speaker 5 (02:18:36):
Just talking about this one day, not every day, but.

Speaker 33 (02:18:38):
Just Thanksgiving, it's a horrible idea because when you starve yourself,
whatever rules you walked in the door with will go
out the window as soon as you get access to
whatever the first thing it is that you eat.

Speaker 10 (02:18:51):
You don't want to trigger your addiction. We're all addicted
to sugar, and at the end of the day, if
you really break it down and look at what it
is that pulls us to most foods, sugar, salt, or fat,
So what I would say is eat as normal, maybe
don't eat as heavy, you don't eat as big a breakfast.
But again I talked about fruit earlier. Eat some fruit,
that's something that's painless. You won't overeat it. You find

(02:19:12):
the fruit that you enjoy, so you enjoy the process.
You're not forcing yourself to eat something you don't like.
And then and then drink some water. And then when
it comes time, you can actually look at the food
and enjoy it if you break it down the way
I told you. So you have like that fifty percent
of your plate which is fruits and raw vegetables i e. Salad,
twenty five percent of your plate which is vegetables, and
then twenty five being that other thing you really pick
and choose. And you start to eat these things and

(02:19:34):
enjoy the bites when you pay attention to when you
just pile your plate and just eat, you just be
shoveling anytime you are eating. I want to make sure
this is clear. Anytime you're eating in an addictive manner,
you are just shoveling food, just mindlessly eating. That should
be a key and a trigger to you to let
you know that you're eating the wrong thing the wrong
way because we don't do that. Like I said, me
and Road is sitting right now that bottle of water.

(02:19:56):
You just taking cool SIPs every now.

Speaker 2 (02:19:59):
Some chin so hard.

Speaker 10 (02:20:00):
But but if it was a lemonade, you to crush that.
If it was a lemonade, you just killed that and
been looking for another one. So that's how you know.
Our bodies will tell us all the time. Matter of fact,
you never eating a salad or apples and then caught
the itis. Never once, never want. But if you eat,
but if you eat a bunch of potato salad and yams, boom,
you knocked out. Your body's telling you what's going on.

(02:20:22):
And our bodies tell us all the time. We just
normalize those things and call them cute names like the itists,
but really pay such to what your body's telling you
when you're eating.

Speaker 2 (02:20:29):
Last point, folks are like I love the people who
go fitness crazy. Fitness crazy and you always said bomb
line is he's look losing the weight this eighty twenty
changing what you eat and how you eat as opposed
to the fitness piece. So thanksgiving us now over and
again for the people who again you could try to

(02:20:49):
go crazy. Think you about to go through this whole
circuit deal, what would you say to the folks right now,
just do a basic walk just to get get your
body moving.

Speaker 10 (02:20:58):
You get your heart rate moving. If you were to
check your heart rate and it said about one hundred
and forty five be's per minute, if you were to
sustain that for twenty five minutes, that's all you really
need to burn fat. Going up a flight of stairs
will take you to that to that level. What I
would always recommend to people is the dirty little secret
is if you're eating on program, you're actually cleansing because
on program foods go through your system in twenty four hours.
You drink that bottle of water, you're gonna go to

(02:21:19):
the bathroom a couple hours, right, But when you eat.

Speaker 2 (02:21:22):
Now, I don't go back by twenty minutes.

Speaker 10 (02:21:24):
There it is. But if you're eating foods that are
this program.

Speaker 2 (02:21:27):
Thirty three point eight Alkalin, Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:21:30):
So what happens is if you're eating foods that are
off program, they stay in your system for two and
three days. So anytime you're eating foods and vegetables, it's
going to go through your system in a day. So
if you the more you eat those and put those
in your system. The more you're cleansing yourself anywhere, you
don't have to go on these crazy cleanses or these.

Speaker 2 (02:21:46):
All change unless you eat some Unless you eat that
things getting food and eat some oatmeal next morning, you'd
be all right, they'll clean you out, or some prunes
or something.

Speaker 10 (02:22:00):
But but but it's no need to put yourself through
something that that feels unpleasant. You know, what I want
you to do is find the stuff that you enjoyed
this on program.

Speaker 2 (02:22:06):
If you need help with it again, just DM me,
because that's that's also what happens. I think what happens
when when you look at some of these when you
talk about some of the food stuff, is like when
you looking at it and you like, damn right there.

Speaker 10 (02:22:21):
You know that, And that's why, and that's why depravity
is never really the best option. Although if we're trying
to lose weight, we do need to be smarter about
what we're eating.

Speaker 2 (02:22:30):
Gotcha, do you you mind protein shakes?

Speaker 10 (02:22:32):
I do. I don't do supplements, man. I feel like
nature gives us such a leg up, and if we
give our bodies natural food finatural sources. Now, in some
instances there are supplements that help because somebody might be
having a version to dairy or something like that.

Speaker 2 (02:22:47):
So you don't think a protein shake is a meal replacement.

Speaker 10 (02:22:50):
Uh, it can be, but I would rather replace the
meal with like a smoothie made of yogurt and fruit
and flax seed as opposed to a powder shake, because
in that powder shakes, when you're hidden sugar, that's gonna
keep working against you.

Speaker 2 (02:23:02):
So versus that. So like the green and smoothies and
stuff like that.

Speaker 10 (02:23:05):
You look at the ingredients, man, Just because it's green
doesn't mean it's right. You know, sometimes it'll be green,
it'll have all kinds of pineapple and all kinds of
sugar in it, and that sugar is what we're trying
to avoid.

Speaker 2 (02:23:15):
Got it, all right? Tell folks how to.

Speaker 10 (02:23:18):
Read you man. Find me at Instagram at k U
t I m A C K cootie mac. Find me
on Facebook by b D Fitness. You can go online
at bybd fitness dot com and like I said, direct
message me with your email address, tell me you saw
me here. I will send you for free a whole
holiday eating guide that will help you navigate all of
this stuff that we just talked about tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:23:36):
All right, Rineita, Julian m the Congo. Let's see who's
gonna be down at least two pounds by next Monday.
Next Monday, we'll see, we'll see. All right, cut it back.
I appreciate it. Thanks about yes, sir, folks, that is it. Uh,
don't forget support us in what we do. First one,
let me thank your data A Congo and Julian for
joining us on today's panel. Folks, you can always join

(02:23:59):
our Bring the Funk Club. Your dollars make it possible
for us to do what we do. Is critically important
to do the work that we do.

Speaker 30 (02:24:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:24:05):
You take that conversation we had about what's happening in
New York with the FOS case, said Jonathan Major's case. Look,
you're not gonna have that level of in depth conversation
on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, Fox News, any of those networks.
This is why we got to have our own have
that conversation. So Senior checking money order the peelbox five

(02:24:25):
seven one ninety six Washington d C two zero zero
three seven that zero one nine six cash out Dollar
sign r M unfiltered, PayPal, r Martin unfiltered, venmo Is
r M unfiltered Zel rolling at roland s Martin dot
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(02:24:48):
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(02:25:09):
there next to all the others. And don't forget to
get a copy of my book White Fear, How the
Browning of Americas making White folks lose their minds, available
at bookstores nationwide. And you see these commercials running for
Lamon Kitchen the seasoning. If you actually go to it's
on my social media. I thought I had the graphic,
but I don't right now. If you go to you

(02:25:32):
can go check it out the seasoning. Give me one second,
you get ten dollars off of use the promo code
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and then the use the use the rm US the

(02:25:54):
promo code. You'll get ten dollars off of that seasoning.
So there you go, folks.

Speaker 10 (02:26:00):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (02:26:01):
I'll see you tomorrow right here on Rolling Martin on
the Filter on the Black Start Network. Oh up, folks,
Black Start Network is.

Speaker 6 (02:26:12):
Here a real revolutionary right now.

Speaker 14 (02:26:17):
Work this man, black media.

Speaker 8 (02:26:19):
Make sure that our stories are hold.

Speaker 2 (02:26:20):
I thank you for being the voice of Black America.

Speaker 5 (02:26:23):
Roling, I love You'll Oman now we have to keep
this going.

Speaker 7 (02:26:28):
The video looks phenomenal.

Speaker 20 (02:26:30):
This is between Black Starr Network and Black owned media
and something.

Speaker 2 (02:26:34):
Like seeing in. You can't be black owned media and
be scape. It's time to be smart, bring your eyeballs home.
You dig

Speaker 5 (02:27:04):
To do

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