May 29, 2024 • 36 mins
Drake has always been a magnet for attention. His strange journey has taken him from teen fame on Degrassi to blockbuster rap stardom. In 2024, his beef with Kendrick Lamar has blown up into one of the all-time biggest hip-hop beefs. They went from zero to 100 real quick, sending deadly insults and accusations back and forth. Yet he’s also still Drake, the pop icon and the certified loverboy who sings emo ballads like the 2015 classic “Hotline Bling.”
When “Hotline Bling” dropped, it felt like a victory lap—after a year of hip-hop flexes, he felt confident enough to sing his most vulnerable soul ballad, pining over an ex who’s doing fine without him. Obviously, in 2024 Drake is in a totally different place. He hasn’t been in his feelings over his exes’ vacation photos lately. Instead, he’s caught up in a rap beef of historic proportions.
On this week’s episode hosts Rob Sheffield and Brittany Spanos discuss Drake’s career, “Hotline Bling,” and the Kendrick beef. They’re joined by their brilliant colleague Jeff Ihaza to talk about “Hotline Bling” and its place in the Drake story. Jeff also helps us break down the context of Drake’s hip-hop status in 2015, and how that influenced how the world heard “Hotline Bling.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Spanis and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so
special and what makes them matter throughout history.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And today's song is none other than Hotline Blank, right, Drake,
a true classic and I mean obviously of course to
my twenty one list. This was Drake's debut on the list.
He came in strong with three songs. Hotline Blink comes
in at number three seventy three. The other songs are
hold On, We're Going Home and take Care, both great,
(00:40):
both perfect songs. But today we're going to talk about
Hotline Blink because that was like an earth shattering song
in twenty fifteen. Do you remember a little bit of
that of that summer and Drake and kind of hearing
that song for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It was such a great song. Hearing here for the
first time. It was so different from what you would
have expected from Drake at the time, since he was
being challenged so much at the time on his rap credentials,
on his seriousness, and this is how he chooses to respond.
Is such an incredibly bold, audacious Drake move.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we should talk a little bit about the history
of Drake leading up to this, because he is his
careers truly. I mean it's obviously such like a part
of everything. It was beyond De Grossi as a teen actor,
then releasing mixtapes and gained signed to Young Money and
working with Lil Wayne and like being a part of
that whole crew, which of course was dominating twenty tons rap.
I remember, best I ever had was mind blowing to
(01:35):
see the kid from De Grossi on you know, hearing
him on the radio and being like he's rapping now,
Jimmy from De Grossi is rapping now, And I mean
he just like I mean out the gate, like he
was already so popular. He had such an impact on
younger audiences almost immediately, I feel like, and also because
I grew up watching De Grossi, like that was a
show that's like especially for millennials, like it was on
(01:57):
TV constantly, Like there was no Sadder Morning where De
Grassei wasn't playing in sort of marathon form on PBS
or something.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, he was amazing. What was your first Drake experience
because you were Drake fan really early.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I think it was best I ever had. But
also like that song, I feel like set such like
a precedent for what would come next because it is
such a such a boy band pop song, you know,
like so pants, like chilling with your hair tide like
you know, like no makeup on all that stuff is
like such like a you know, one direction, like little
things type of song moment. So I feel like it
(02:31):
was such a good precedent for kind of him catering
to the women who love him and love his music.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
A lifelong passion for him.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, but that was that was the first introduction, and
I feel like he was already kind of straddling that,
like trying to be a tough rapper, but also like
having this kind of you know, pop sensitivity to him
where he really did want to be a pop star
and did want to like make and still you know,
this is still a big part of him, like he
(03:00):
wants to be someone who makes like pop music for
everyone and looks up to a lot of big pop
stars and sees himself in competition with like the Beyonces
and Taylor Swifts of the world, like He's always like
his competition is not just jay Z or Kanye, even
though he also is competing with them too. He didn't
invent sort of being a rapper who sings too right.
It's like, you know, we heard it like jot Role
(03:20):
and like Nelly in the early two thousands, and that
was such a part of them.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Drake just had his unique personality there. He was really
unstressed about things that you would think that other people
would be stressed about artistically, but he was so confident
about doing so many things at the same time that
you really wondered how he got away with doing all these,
in some ways contradictory things at the same time. There's
so many Drake songs you'd hear them for the first
(03:46):
time think I just can't believe somebody's.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Doing this, and like nothing was the same. Of course,
headhold on We're Going Home, which I know is your
vote for the five hundred Great of Songs list, But
that song, I feel like, really set the precedent of
how people would kind of have a new understanding an
image of Drake in their heads.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Absolutely, and it was such a massive song. I remember
really fun October afternoon that year, I was walking and
I had my headphones on. I was listening to the
radio in New York and I thought, you know, every
station is playing this Drake song. I wonder if I
can spend the entire afternoon just listening to this one
song from station to station, And it was absurdly easy.
(04:26):
Every moment I had to spin the dial, it was
starting on another station. It was a continuous flow of
that on New York radio. And that was very typical
for that whole fall.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, I mean his like, his voice sounds great on it.
I mean it's just him singing like it's so it
was so unlike anything for a rapper to do at
that time, especially a male rapper to test out at
that time, and I mean nothing was the same, and
that song really dominated things for a couple of years,
and then twenty fifteen is sort of a whole new peek.
If you're reading this, it's too late. Surprise dropped in
(04:58):
the beginning of the year, which was like post Beyonce
and also like a lot of artists were attempting to
do the surprise drops at that time, and very few
were doing it effectively. But it was a big moment
for Drake to be able to surprise drop something and
then actually it kind of becomes a conversation for longer
than forty eight hours and really like made people realize, oh, yes,
(05:20):
this is like the biggest artist of this generation right now.
Like he's like really like in charge of everything. Yeah,
that's like I love that mixtape.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I love it so much, And it's so funny that
it was not just the surprise that he's surprise released
an album, but that it was such a surprise move
for him that he was so tough on it and
so street on it and going for one style of
what he did, yeah, and just focusing on that.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah. I mean, those are some of my probably my
favorite Drake songs still, Like I love Madonna on There,
such a great song. I love that album, yeah Energy.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love the one where he's complaining about driving his
girlfriend to her law school exams through the snow, and
I'm just like, that is so perfectly on brand Drake.
I mean, aside from the whole thing he's complaining about
the snow and he's driving to her law board examinations
in Toronto, it's just a very strange sort of complaint
to make, and yet he is he's so on brand Drake,
(06:20):
even when he's adopting this really street running through the
six with my woes sort of persona.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, and then he headline Cortello that year and brought
out Madonna as a guest, which again big deal for
sort of a kind of someone who is slid bying
themselves as like the pop star version of themselves while
also slovilling themselves as like a great rapper and has
the beef with Meek Mill this year. He starts off
the summer with back to Back, which was like a
(06:46):
great diss song. I feel like that song immediately just
became such a massive hit and was all over the
clubs and like everywhere. And then just a couple months
later he comes back with complete polar opposite of back
to Back with Hotline, which is a perfect song.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's a perfect song, It's a perfect song. I know
that you, like me, are obsessed with the connection between
Drake and Paul McCartney. Yes, who are the same person
in so many ways. They have very similar sort of
mixes of contradictory personality traits. But I think of Hotline,
bling is such a Paul McCartney song, the one it
(07:22):
really reminds me of is the Beatles classic for No
One Yes, And it's a breakup song where Paul McCartney
is sitting alone in his room thinking about this girl
who left and he's trying to figure out what went wrong,
and he's having this conversation with her where he talks
her out of it and explains why it was such
a bad idea, was a love that should have lasted years.
And he's having this argument with her in his head
(07:45):
and she's totally forgotten him. Someone mentions his name to
her and she just says, yet he was someone I knew,
but you know I don't need him. You know it's
over for her. It's so not over for him. It's
such a McCartney song for him in the best ways. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I remember, like years ago, I think, on the Music
Now podcast we were talking about it and I always
liked the song Drive My Car by the Beatles is
one of my favorite songs in he re mind. It's
like such like a Drake song in so many ways.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It really is. My God, it's a total Drake song.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Like just like completely obsessed with this girl who like
really doesn't want him that much, and like it's just
like you could drive my car. You know you could
do this and this song, I mean, just the the
girl in the song is like I want to be
this girl just generally, like she's all over the world.
She's like, you know, hanging out with a bunch of
new friends. She's living a fabulous life. She's I mean,
(08:35):
everything he's describing is perfect. It's a great it's a
great existence.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's an aspirational breakup song. Yeah, he and he totally knows.
He's got so much fomo about all the fun that
she's having without him, And he's totally right. She's having
the best time of her life. Absolutely nobody on earth
is having a better time than this girl who got
away from Drake and is finally wearing less and going
out more. And he's convinced that somewhere in it there's
(09:00):
some sort of inner sadness and she still yearns for
him on some level. And yeah, she so obviously doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
She's got champagne out on the dance floor, like she's
not thinking about Drake at all. Aubrey Graham, who.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
What's the status of her passport?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Pridgin, She's running out of pages, running out of pages,
Like who doesn't want to be this girl. I mean,
only Drake can release a hit breakup song where he's
the loser in the song, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's so perfect and also it makes women in the
audience this is what they want to be. They want
to be the girl who has left Drake and he's
so miserable and he keeps telling them how much fun
they're having without him. Yeah, it's kind of perfectly perfectly
designed that way.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I feel like that's like such a marker of Drake
during this period or this like chunk of his career,
right like from I guess like nothing was the same
ish era like twenty thirteen, but I mean obviously really
kind of hits its stride with Hotline Blank and kind
of goes into the next couple of years with Views
and Scorpion, where he has these songs that are so
(09:59):
much for the girls and for his like female audience
who like need these kind of like great sort of
anthemic club bangers that he makes where it's still him complaining.
It's it's like so like only Drake can do this
where he's the one complaining on the song, and yet
everything he's complaining about is just like absolutely what I
(10:20):
would like my life to look like like everything that's
making him so angry, it's just kind of like, yeah,
I would like to live like that. I would like
to have this life. Of all of Drake's exes, they
seem to have a nice life, they seem to have
they seem to go to greener pastures in their own existence.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
After this, the entire city of Toronto is a Drake
X who's having the best time ever. Without him, Toronto
turns into one big party zone as soon as Drake
leaves down.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I mean, I think he just he makes such great
pop records, like he really and it's one of those
things where he's never shied away from it. I think
there's a lot of this idea of like hardness and
rap and kind of being sort of like leaning into
that for male rappers specifically, and like I feel like
he did something where I think he's influenced so much
(11:08):
of what rap sounds like now, which is like unafraid
of making really dancy music and unafraid of making things
that are you know, straddling that line between like Meg
and The Stallion, where she has like really kind of
like hard bars on songs that are kind of super
clubby and meant to be super clubby and are like
unapologetically pop. He like worked with city girls around this time,
and they are like queens of that. They're so good
(11:30):
at doing that where they have these like incredibly really
really hard songs that are just like excellent rapping from
them and then just like the best beat you've ever
heard in your entire life, you know. And he's and
obviously with him singing on a lot of those songs too,
like he's doing his own hooks. He's like having these
like really excellent kind of like pop R and B hooks.
I mean it came from like, like I think, like
Trey songs dissed him once and was like, Drake can't sing,
(11:52):
and he was like, I'll show him, which is like,
is such a Drake thing? Which is like, well, I
mean like building the entire like branding of himself for
years was just like kind of like to piss off
Trey songs, what.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
A quest unbelievable. Something I love about how hotline bling
works like that for him is that, like you said,
this was after his Meek Mill beef and he'd just
been accused of not being serious enough about hip hop
and not taking his rap hardness seriously enough, and this
is how he chooses to respond. Yeah, it's just kind
(12:28):
of brilliant. It's funny that beef with Meek Mill was
such an amazing iconic night of hip hop radio, for
sure in New York. I remember, I was listening to
funk Maxter Flex. I was in a cab on the
way to a party, and it actually was so obsessed
with what was going on in the radio that it
got to the party and didn't even go in. I
just walked around in Brooklyn just like listening to this
(12:51):
rap beef unfold in real time on funk Master Flex,
And it was just an incredibly exciting, action packed pop
moment of hip hop as a sort of ongoing real
time thing. Yeah, And it was so wild that having
responded from basically responding to something like that, that he
would go to a song as pop as R and B,
(13:13):
as Slow Jammy and as forlorn as Hotline Bling is
something that just really bold move.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, And it also is such a big thing of
showing off just how much he understands hip hop, you know,
like it really does show off how much he understands
kind of that history and kind of you know, a
lot of what's made hip hop work and successful is
like it's dance music, you know, like it's meant to be,
you know, great dance music, and so you know, I
think that is just like such a great coup for
(13:41):
him to kind of come back off of already a
hit diss record like that song was also having back
to back and Hotline Bling simultaneously blowing up over the
course of that year. Like it was. I remember going
to like clubs and they would play them, like both
the songs at the same time, you know, like just
to kind of highlight this like massive year that Drake
was having. But yeah, I mean just they were kind
(14:02):
of coexisting as like the two sides of Drake his
Juckle and Hyde music.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, I mean, Holling Bling is so special because it's
also it's got its own sort of musical personality with
the sort of seventies Miami soul sound of it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Oh, there's been a lot of covers of it, but yeah,
I mean there's been like, like I love the Rikabadoo
remix of it. Billie Eilish did like a version of it.
Justin Bieber did a version which I actually really liked.
His version of the song I thought that was kind
of a fun one, and I kind of always always
liked that they always played with beans sort of each
other's kind of Toronto pop mirrors in a lot of
ways over the.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Years, interestingly linked spiritual twins. Yeah, in some interesting ways.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I thought one of the smartest things Drake has ever
done is have Justin Bieber Starr and his pop Star video.
I thought that was the most brilliant casting he's ever done.
I was like, this is perfect for a song called
pop Star, Justin Bieber, you know, lip syncing to it. Like,
I'm like, this is like an actually like perfect little
little moment from.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm intrigued by the Beyonce Drake combination that because it
is interesting that, like you said about the ego and
the self seriousness, whereas I mean, it's just very different
for her. He is willing to seem silly in a
way that she wouldn't or you.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Know, yeah, and I feel like she's just starting to
be sillier.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But I also feel like for he and Beyonce, there's
so much, so much symbiosis that they have yet to
explore fully.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, I mean, even like the song Mine on Beyonce
self titled Deeply Underrated Tracks for an album, And I
think they just work really well as duet partners because
they both kind of straddle that like the hardness and
the softness very well of both hip hop and R
and B, and like that's something that they both lean
into at the same time. I'm kind of surprised that
(15:50):
they haven't done more over the years, because I think
they would. They really kind of, like I don't know,
sort of flourish together in that way. And I really
kind of I've always really liked their like innership.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It seems so perfect. Also, what you said about him
being the ultimate risk taker is so true of her.
That they're both fearless in a way that you can't
really imagine anybody else being that fearless together at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, I feel like the one sort of downfall for Drake,
and that is like Beyonce's a very good editor. Beyonce
is very she's very strict with how she puts things out,
and Drake is not Drake, And I mean, I mean,
I guess like it's two different kinds of risk takers, right,
Like Beyonce is like very like virgo calculated of like
I'm going to be thinking about exactly the risk that
(16:33):
I'm going to take, and we're going to put in
all of her effort and we're going to make the
best house album you've ever heard in your entire life,
and it's going to be so referential to everything in
the history of house music. And Drake's like, what if
I just called up this artist from the scene that
I like and I try out an accent and sometimes
it works and sometimes it doesn't, And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Absolutely yes. She is like the concept of quality control
does not have the same weight for him that it
does for her. She is so determined to keep her
flawless track record. She's like, there will never be a
bad track ever under this brand name. She's absolutely committed
to that quality control. And he does not worry about
(17:16):
the hits to Missus Ratio Yeah at all.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That is just math.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
He does not do.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, He's like, if you if you want to hear
British accent, let me try it real quick. Yes, Like
let's just see how it works. Like if you're not
cool with it, we'll move on. Yes, And I'm okay
with that, Like I think it's it's been for the
best that He's willing to like try and do that
because I think that's like made him who he is,
you know, that's made him so popular, and it's made
(17:43):
him such like a person who people you know, kind
of laugh with most of the time most of the time,
not all the time, but most of the time. And
he leans into that. He doesn't mind that. I'm wondering
if there's gonna be more of I feel like the
heated semi collab I'm Connie as a clap in my
head because I mean, also, some of those lines are
so peak peak Drake, but like, but yeah, I feel
(18:06):
like there has to be there has to be happening
in the future.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Absolutely well. They both have the undeniable ear for a classic,
yeah no, and the hotline bling is I mean, that's
a song that people will be singing forever, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Ear for a classic, and also a great knowledge of history,
like of music history, Like they both. Drake is so
good at picking samples, so good at like really you know,
finding like really great R and B songs to sort
of integrate into his music and to use and to
sing along with and you know, make a part of it. Obviously,
this episode, as probably our listeners can tell much of
(18:39):
it was recorded prior to the Great Drake Kendrick lamarbef
of twenty twenty four that involves future and Metro Boomin
and Jack Antonov randomly and everyone else. I want us
to kind of revisit a conversation that we had in
this episode and the conversation that we will be having
with Jeff in the next segment. I'm curious how you
(19:00):
think this particular moment between Drake and Kendrick Lamar will
affect the future of Drake. Will this lower Hotline Bling
and other Drake songs on the list and future incarnations?
Will we forget about him altogether? What will happen now
that all of these diss songs have come out and
Drake has ostensibly kind of lost in the war between
(19:25):
Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We've been talking about Hotline Bling as a moment in
Drake's long, complex career, an ongoing career, and an ongoing moment.
We've been talking about him and his rap career and
what this pop moment means in his rap career. And
of course, you know, while we're talking about this now
in twenty twenty four, obviously a lot is going on
(19:48):
with Drake and his participation in an old school rap beef,
except none of the old school rap beefs were actually
like this.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
No rap beef has ever happened this quickly. Yeah, No
one's ever dropped a song fifteen minutes after someone dropped theirs.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yes, I mean, this makes the old like you know,
South Bronx, Queen's Bad be like you know mc shan,
that kind of back and forth seem like snail mail
in comparison. Also, I mean a very strange beef. Honestly,
I can't think of any hip hop beef that compares
to this in terms of one very artistic, serious, for
(20:25):
lack of a better word, rapper who is like very
much a poet, a complex artist, a winner of a
Pulitzer Prize versus one who has always been a pop
entertainer in addition to everything else he is. And we've
got a Pulitzer Prize winner versus someone who is onto
grassy Junior High. It's very strange for them to be
(20:46):
competing on any level, but to have this kind of
beef is without precedent.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I mean, and also Kendrick Lamar beating Drake at his
own game, I mean his song debut at number one.
I mean all is like all of his songs charted
and did much better than Drake. And of course the
thing that Drake has had is incredible chart success. I mean,
this is someone who's like beating Beatles records. You know,
He's the person who's like finally kind of broke through
(21:12):
and beat a lot of those you know, big kind
of sales and chart records that had not yet been
broken just in terms of the volume of hits that
he's had and kind of in that way got beat
in his own game. I mean again, the timing of
Hotline Bling was coming after a beef with Meek Mill
that Drake was having and you know, back to back
(21:33):
being Drake's diss song which ended up becoming like a
massive hit, and therefore he won that battle, and Hotline
Bling sort of further solidifying that by becoming an even
bigger song. Like I'm wondering, like, is he going to
try to do that again? Like is he going to
try to drop in twenty twenty four his new version
of Hotline Bling that sort of like overtakes the beef
(21:55):
and kind of goes beyond the dis songs as just
like a pop hit like could that be his way
of sort of like kind of secretly side stuffing the
dissongs by just Drafia, another big pop hit banger. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I don't know, Honestly, it's hard to tell because I mean,
a rap beef is Kendrick's home turf. Yeah, Drake is
the out of town team and this like he's never
been the artist that you go to for that. He's
got more slaps than the Beatles, but like you know,
the Beatles wouldn't have won a rap beef war with
Kendrink either, nobody would. But it's not I mean not
(22:29):
even like Boogey Down Productions versus like Queensbridge so much
as like Boogeann Productions versus pm DON, which is a
rap beef that nobody remembered because it was a very
serious street artistic philosopher king of hip hop versus a
pop act with the number one hit, and it just
didn't make any cultural impact because there was you know,
(22:52):
there was really no common ground. Neither of them had
something that the other one wanted. It's obviously too early
to tell this is ongoing thing, but I had to
picture this doing long term damage to either of them,
but it's hard just because that isn't the standard that
people generally measured Drake.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
But maybe why it's been such like a shocking development,
and like this is the most damage it's done to Drake,
you know, this is like probably the most kind of
like public image, and Drake usually pretty unbreakable just because
he is like such a meme in and of himself,
Like that is something he's lead into. He's like leaned
into a lot of the joke of the Drake of
(23:27):
it all right, But like this is just because it's
very clear that there's like someone from his own team
kind of leaking stuff to Kendrick. Like there's like kind
of levels to a lot of what's going on like
behind the scenes for Drake, levels to a lot of
what Kendrick alleges in the songs. And it's very fascinating
because I mean, even when we spoke, you know, a
(23:49):
while ago about the song for this episode, like it
almost seemed like there was nothing that could kind of
break that Drake success bubble. And this is maybe the
closest is gotten. But I'm also not in that same
way sure this is like the end in any way
for Drake, Like I do kind of genuinely think that
he probably has a hotline bling in my feelings nice
(24:12):
for what level type of like summer smash in him.
Still that like immediately people move on from He's.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Taken l's like this before. That's the essence of Drake, right,
he takes l's. That's what he does.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Drake thesis of everything.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yes, likee yes.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
The constant themes with Drake are girls love Drake and
Drake loses, like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Hot line Blink.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, people thought people thought pusha and ended Drake. Ye,
Like they seriously thought that, and it seemed like he
could never come back from this, and of course it
went down in history. Is one of the great l's
that Drake takes because that's what Drake does.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
So what's that?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, exactly, So to me it fits in with hotline
Blink because hotline Bling is like, Drake is not the
winner of that battle with the girl. She's wearing lesson
going out more. You know, Kendrick could be you know,
like the one in Hotline Blaying who's like, you know,
leaving Drake behind charity Moore, Yeah, exactly. But you know,
(25:13):
part of what people love about Drake is, you know
that he gets beat down, like in his songs. Yeah,
and that's just something about him that people relate to.
And so I think he comes out of this. I
could be wrong, but I think this fits into a
long tradition of Drake taking l's and people like, ah,
(25:33):
that Drake. He sure got beat this time, he said,
the Drake of it all.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Next up, we will be joined by Rolling Stone Senior
editor Jeffy Hasa. And now we're joined by senior Editor
Rolling Stone, Jeffy Haza. Thank you so much for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So tell us a little bit about your your relationship
with Drake over the years.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Oh my goodness, it's funny actually. So I'm from Houston,
Texas originally, and when Drake was first really popping off,
this has to have been in two thousand and nine,
maybe two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. A
lot of his early shows were at in Houston. I
think he wraps about like nine at Warehouse, like his
buncoming or whatever. And I'll never forget I worked at
Kroger grocery store and I was like a bag boy,
(26:16):
and I had a crush on the girl who was
the cashier that I was bagging for, and that was
the beginning of me knowing who Drake was and listening
to Drake.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And do you remember where you were or kind of
like how you heard Hotline Blane when it first came out.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, So fast forward all those years later, I think
I just moved to New York or i'd been here
for like a year or so, and I was working
at a different music magazine and I had the graveyard
shift editor job, so it was like he announced that
it was dropping, and then it was my job that
night to like write up the premiere. So I was
very much like refreshing the page waiting to see it.
(26:52):
And then you know, when the video came out, all
those memes came along with it of like him in
the room and the dancing and everything, and then one
of the first like blog post that ever and was
like all of the funny memes to come out of
the Hotline playing music video. Very impactful moment in my
music journalism career.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I'd say, yeah, I feel like the that summer it
was like the first summer, like the first true summer
of Drake.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
It felt like, yeah, that whole year honestly, Yeah, he
kind of ran twenty fifteen to a point where, you know,
the haters came out.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Of the woodwork as we saw.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I feel like that same year Kanye was doing like
I forget what release Kanye was doing or what was
going on, but he had this big concert in Madison
Square Park and like Push a T, Travis Scott, all
these people were there, and then all these videos came
out the next day of like Drake in the crowd,
like trying to get up front, and it was like
the beginning of people like hating on Drake in this
where it's like Kanye didn't even let you into the
(27:44):
show type of big. But yeah, that summer, like Drake
was so hot that I feel like there were just
all these arrows coming at him because everyone wanted to
take him off like the perch.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You know, were you both immediate fans of this song
when he first heard it.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, it didn't take it long because it's got that
like I don't know what the classic thing is called,
but it kind of the rhythm of it feels very
reminiscent of like a like a Honolulu like vacation song
or something, or like something you'd played a wedding like
it just immediately kind of catches you as like, oh,
this is a very almost wholesome song, even though it's
very not wholesome yea what he's talking.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
About on it.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I feel like everyone was taken by Hotline Playing immediately,
Like it was there's no corner of music that was
untouched by loving Hotline Playing.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And it was such a weird sound that really retro
Miami sound really transposed to a really different sort of
emotional story, and it definitely it got your attention, and
that was even before anybody saw the video, which was
different kind of attention getting.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, it reminds me a lot of hold on, We're
going Home, where it's like it's Drake in this like
retro pop vibe, which is so outside of the norm
from what you see from rappers or even pop stars.
And I think like he kind of does that really well.
It's one of the many like little like that he
can put on where it's like okay, dude, you're Bobby called, Well,
we'll take it.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I feel like he was so good at catering to
like his female audience because he realized very early on
how much like like girls just loved his music and
like he kind of catered to it in a way
that was so specific and so like you said, like
so outside of what so many rappers were doing at
that time and singing and like really making a point
to show off that he can sing and you know,
(29:26):
hold on, we're going home with such a big moment
for him in that way, and I think obviously sets
the tone for this. And then he'd have a hit
with like One Dance Later and Passion Food and you know,
like obviously like in my feelings and nice for what
kind of also have this kind of like you know,
lightness to them and sort of like party kind of
club vibe to them. That's like so much different than
(29:46):
a lot of other stuff he had been doing prior.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, I feel like this is pop star drink.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, this is where he's like kind of you know,
I think when he came onto the scene, it was
like I can rap and I can sing, And then
into this era he starts to get into like I
can also do Taylor Swift number with these major hits.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, this is the year that they had the Apple Music.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, she was in your feelings.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Like Drake, you know, even just that summer of having
back to back and hotline blank, which are such like
disparate sides of who Drake is. Like this like really
hard to song at another rapper and that he like
really owned, and then this like really great sort of
like sung Miami ish like R and B song, which
is perfect.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Well, that's a really fun way to like end a
rap beef. It's like to now, I'm just gonna come
out with like the softest song ever.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
But only Drake.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I feel like, Oh, that's like kind of Drake's specialty
where it's he doesn't he doesn't like fulfill any expectations,
especially when it comes to hip hop. It's like he
does his own thing genuinely. And I think his fans
and people who really love him they respond to that
because it's like he's willing to be vulnerable. He's willing
to be you know, self deprecating. Even though Drake is
probably two in his head about.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It these days.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, I feel like he really had fun with being
a meme when it came up, Like it was something
where he didn't take it too seriously. And I think
a lot of artists can and feel so like self
conscious about it and like in their head about it
and like take it very, very personally, Whereas I think
like Drake really owned it and kind of loved it
because he knew that was like the power of the
audience and like what kept him in the conversation.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, I mean, Drake is so Internet savvy, and I
feel like this hotline and bling moment is kind of
the beginning of us really seeing how savvy.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
He is with the Internet.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I know we were talking earlier about how that song
was ten years ago, and it's like for the past
ten years, Drake has dominated the conversation primarily because he's
so good at being like the subject of the internet's
you know, ire or love one day or the other,
and he kind of knows how to just own it
and not like flame out. Like we've seen a lot
of artists flame out. There's one flaming out today.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And I mean, let's talk about the video a little bit,
because the video is so good and like, even just
like rewatching it, I'm like, I don't even know what
it was about this, Like it's such a great video obviously,
but like I'm like, I cannot believe how much this
video overtook culture for like as long as it did,
Like it's like so simple. It's just like Drake dancing
and just Neon like rooms, and it works so well
(32:20):
because he's just like kind of it's just funny to
watch him dance, and it's.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Just Drake, right, if I'm remembering correctly. It's like there's
not like a whole background dancer.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
There's like one dancer who shows up randomly, and then
there's like the call center girls. At the beginning, I
did a group costume for Hotlines playing that year. I
was a call center girl, and then one of my
friends was Drake and then another friend Why go Aground?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
The video is like it's so minimal and it's so
like I think the lighting of it and the way
that Drake dances in it just became so immediately like
this is what we're doing now. From twenty fifteen to
like twenty sixty or seventeen, almost like Borat where it's
like one of those things that happens and then everywhere
you look it's like someone's making a joke about it.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there was, like I mean
it was there were memes for like a year. There's
references on like every show and it's even crazier that
it's not even like I feel like Hotline Blink isn't
even like the primary thing you think of when you
think of Drake anymore. Like it's right how everywhere that
song was like it it's not necessarily the thing people
even associate with Drake. Like there's so much other like
(33:25):
really massive hits he's had since then, or like giant
cultural moments that he's had since then.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah, it's like, you know, that was the first of
many of his like world smashing pop crossover hits, whereas
you mentioned like One Dance, Passion Fruit, those all came
I feel like right after actually because they're all on views.
But I feel like the guy's got it, you know
when he makes these big statement songs, like they take
over and then it's he does so many of them
(33:50):
that you almost forget that he did that. Like when
we were talking about doing this episode, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Hotline Blink, that song is amazing, Like it's just one
of those things about Drake.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, but I feel like everyone, especially with like you know,
more of his more at the Twin One Savage album
and all that, Like it seems like he's kind of
moved towards just being like harder Drake again.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, what do you.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Think of that?
Speaker 4 (34:13):
I think he's been so tested by his peers where
you know, kind of like we're talking about, you know,
twenty fifteen and onwards, he's been like the main target
at the same time, and I think he's someone who
seems to need to have the need to prove himself
or feel the need to prove himself. So instead of
giving us full on house bangers for the past ten years,
(34:35):
which I'm sure in his heart is what he wants
to be doing, it's like someone tests him and he's like,
you know what, I gotta rap again just to make
sure they know that, like I still got it, I'm still.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Him or whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
Meanwhile, his real fans we want that, honestly, never mind Drake,
we want the Abeza Drake. Like, I'm good with that.
I'm good if he never wraps again. Just does hotline blinks.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I feel the exact same way.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
What's gonna happen when Drake is like happy, like he
gets merri or something and falls in love.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh no, I.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Feel like Drake is like the least satisfied man.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I think him in future of a song about that.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, he sort of built that into the system.
I don't think we have to worry about that.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, that'll be the twist in pop culture though, Like
Drake pulls up and he's like happily married. Say, guys,
I love my wife.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I would I think a wife, guy Drake wife be
really earth shattering.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, that's how you really change it up.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
By for Drake his version of Man of the Woods.
You know, like, yeah, well, thank you so much Jeff
for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Thank you guys, it's just fun.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred
Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling
Stone and iHeartMedia. Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And Rob Sheffield, Executive.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde, and
produce by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Thanks for watching, and thanks for listening.
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Spanis and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so
special and what makes them matter throughout history.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And today's song is none other than Hotline Blank, right, Drake,
a true classic and I mean obviously of course to
my twenty one list. This was Drake's debut on the list.
He came in strong with three songs. Hotline Blink comes
in at number three seventy three. The other songs are
hold On, We're Going Home and take Care, both great,
(00:40):
both perfect songs. But today we're going to talk about
Hotline Blink because that was like an earth shattering song
in twenty fifteen. Do you remember a little bit of
that of that summer and Drake and kind of hearing
that song for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It was such a great song. Hearing here for the
first time. It was so different from what you would
have expected from Drake at the time, since he was
being challenged so much at the time on his rap credentials,
on his seriousness, and this is how he chooses to respond.
Is such an incredibly bold, audacious Drake move.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we should talk a little bit about the history
of Drake leading up to this, because he is his
careers truly. I mean it's obviously such like a part
of everything. It was beyond De Grossi as a teen actor,
then releasing mixtapes and gained signed to Young Money and
working with Lil Wayne and like being a part of
that whole crew, which of course was dominating twenty tons rap.
I remember, best I ever had was mind blowing to
(01:35):
see the kid from De Grossi on you know, hearing
him on the radio and being like he's rapping now,
Jimmy from De Grossi is rapping now, And I mean
he just like I mean out the gate, like he
was already so popular. He had such an impact on
younger audiences almost immediately, I feel like, and also because
I grew up watching De Grossi, like that was a
show that's like especially for millennials, like it was on
(01:57):
TV constantly, Like there was no Sadder Morning where De
Grassei wasn't playing in sort of marathon form on PBS
or something.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, he was amazing. What was your first Drake experience
because you were Drake fan really early.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I think it was best I ever had. But
also like that song, I feel like set such like
a precedent for what would come next because it is
such a such a boy band pop song, you know,
like so pants, like chilling with your hair tide like
you know, like no makeup on all that stuff is
like such like a you know, one direction, like little
things type of song moment. So I feel like it
(02:31):
was such a good precedent for kind of him catering
to the women who love him and love his music.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
A lifelong passion for him.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, but that was that was the first introduction, and
I feel like he was already kind of straddling that,
like trying to be a tough rapper, but also like
having this kind of you know, pop sensitivity to him
where he really did want to be a pop star
and did want to like make and still you know,
this is still a big part of him, like he
(03:00):
wants to be someone who makes like pop music for
everyone and looks up to a lot of big pop
stars and sees himself in competition with like the Beyonces
and Taylor Swifts of the world, like He's always like
his competition is not just jay Z or Kanye, even
though he also is competing with them too. He didn't
invent sort of being a rapper who sings too right.
It's like, you know, we heard it like jot Role
(03:20):
and like Nelly in the early two thousands, and that
was such a part of them.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Drake just had his unique personality there. He was really
unstressed about things that you would think that other people
would be stressed about artistically, but he was so confident
about doing so many things at the same time that
you really wondered how he got away with doing all these,
in some ways contradictory things at the same time. There's
so many Drake songs you'd hear them for the first
(03:46):
time think I just can't believe somebody's.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Doing this, and like nothing was the same. Of course,
headhold on We're Going Home, which I know is your
vote for the five hundred Great of Songs list, But
that song, I feel like, really set the precedent of
how people would kind of have a new understanding an
image of Drake in their heads.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Absolutely, and it was such a massive song. I remember
really fun October afternoon that year, I was walking and
I had my headphones on. I was listening to the
radio in New York and I thought, you know, every
station is playing this Drake song. I wonder if I
can spend the entire afternoon just listening to this one
song from station to station, And it was absurdly easy.
(04:26):
Every moment I had to spin the dial, it was
starting on another station. It was a continuous flow of
that on New York radio. And that was very typical
for that whole fall.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, I mean his like, his voice sounds great on it.
I mean it's just him singing like it's so it
was so unlike anything for a rapper to do at
that time, especially a male rapper to test out at
that time, and I mean nothing was the same, and
that song really dominated things for a couple of years,
and then twenty fifteen is sort of a whole new peek.
If you're reading this, it's too late. Surprise dropped in
(04:58):
the beginning of the year, which was like post Beyonce
and also like a lot of artists were attempting to
do the surprise drops at that time, and very few
were doing it effectively. But it was a big moment
for Drake to be able to surprise drop something and
then actually it kind of becomes a conversation for longer
than forty eight hours and really like made people realize, oh, yes,
(05:20):
this is like the biggest artist of this generation right now.
Like he's like really like in charge of everything. Yeah,
that's like I love that mixtape.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I love it so much, And it's so funny that
it was not just the surprise that he's surprise released
an album, but that it was such a surprise move
for him that he was so tough on it and
so street on it and going for one style of
what he did, yeah, and just focusing on that.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah. I mean, those are some of my probably my
favorite Drake songs still, Like I love Madonna on There,
such a great song. I love that album, yeah Energy.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love the one where he's complaining about driving his
girlfriend to her law school exams through the snow, and
I'm just like, that is so perfectly on brand Drake.
I mean, aside from the whole thing he's complaining about
the snow and he's driving to her law board examinations
in Toronto, it's just a very strange sort of complaint
to make, and yet he is he's so on brand Drake,
(06:20):
even when he's adopting this really street running through the
six with my woes sort of persona.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, and then he headline Cortello that year and brought
out Madonna as a guest, which again big deal for
sort of a kind of someone who is slid bying
themselves as like the pop star version of themselves while
also slovilling themselves as like a great rapper and has
the beef with Meek Mill this year. He starts off
the summer with back to Back, which was like a
(06:46):
great diss song. I feel like that song immediately just
became such a massive hit and was all over the
clubs and like everywhere. And then just a couple months
later he comes back with complete polar opposite of back
to Back with Hotline, which is a perfect song.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's a perfect song, It's a perfect song. I know
that you, like me, are obsessed with the connection between
Drake and Paul McCartney. Yes, who are the same person
in so many ways. They have very similar sort of
mixes of contradictory personality traits. But I think of Hotline,
bling is such a Paul McCartney song, the one it
(07:22):
really reminds me of is the Beatles classic for No
One Yes, And it's a breakup song where Paul McCartney
is sitting alone in his room thinking about this girl
who left and he's trying to figure out what went wrong,
and he's having this conversation with her where he talks
her out of it and explains why it was such
a bad idea, was a love that should have lasted years.
And he's having this argument with her in his head
(07:45):
and she's totally forgotten him. Someone mentions his name to
her and she just says, yet he was someone I knew,
but you know I don't need him. You know it's
over for her. It's so not over for him. It's
such a McCartney song for him in the best ways. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I remember, like years ago, I think, on the Music
Now podcast we were talking about it and I always
liked the song Drive My Car by the Beatles is
one of my favorite songs in he re mind. It's
like such like a Drake song in so many ways.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It really is. My God, it's a total Drake song.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Like just like completely obsessed with this girl who like
really doesn't want him that much, and like it's just
like you could drive my car. You know you could
do this and this song, I mean, just the the
girl in the song is like I want to be
this girl just generally, like she's all over the world.
She's like, you know, hanging out with a bunch of
new friends. She's living a fabulous life. She's I mean,
(08:35):
everything he's describing is perfect. It's a great it's a
great existence.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's an aspirational breakup song. Yeah, he and he totally knows.
He's got so much fomo about all the fun that
she's having without him, And he's totally right. She's having
the best time of her life. Absolutely nobody on earth
is having a better time than this girl who got
away from Drake and is finally wearing less and going
out more. And he's convinced that somewhere in it there's
(09:00):
some sort of inner sadness and she still yearns for
him on some level. And yeah, she so obviously doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
She's got champagne out on the dance floor, like she's
not thinking about Drake at all. Aubrey Graham, who.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
What's the status of her passport?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Pridgin, She's running out of pages, running out of pages,
Like who doesn't want to be this girl. I mean,
only Drake can release a hit breakup song where he's
the loser in the song, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's so perfect and also it makes women in the
audience this is what they want to be. They want
to be the girl who has left Drake and he's
so miserable and he keeps telling them how much fun
they're having without him. Yeah, it's kind of perfectly perfectly
designed that way.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I feel like that's like such a marker of Drake
during this period or this like chunk of his career,
right like from I guess like nothing was the same
ish era like twenty thirteen, but I mean obviously really
kind of hits its stride with Hotline Blank and kind
of goes into the next couple of years with Views
and Scorpion, where he has these songs that are so
(09:59):
much for the girls and for his like female audience
who like need these kind of like great sort of
anthemic club bangers that he makes where it's still him complaining.
It's it's like so like only Drake can do this
where he's the one complaining on the song, and yet
everything he's complaining about is just like absolutely what I
(10:20):
would like my life to look like like everything that's
making him so angry, it's just kind of like, yeah,
I would like to live like that. I would like
to have this life. Of all of Drake's exes, they
seem to have a nice life, they seem to have
they seem to go to greener pastures in their own existence.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
After this, the entire city of Toronto is a Drake
X who's having the best time ever. Without him, Toronto
turns into one big party zone as soon as Drake
leaves down.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I mean, I think he just he makes such great
pop records, like he really and it's one of those
things where he's never shied away from it. I think
there's a lot of this idea of like hardness and
rap and kind of being sort of like leaning into
that for male rappers specifically, and like I feel like
he did something where I think he's influenced so much
(11:08):
of what rap sounds like now, which is like unafraid
of making really dancy music and unafraid of making things
that are you know, straddling that line between like Meg
and The Stallion, where she has like really kind of
like hard bars on songs that are kind of super
clubby and meant to be super clubby and are like
unapologetically pop. He like worked with city girls around this time,
and they are like queens of that. They're so good
(11:30):
at doing that where they have these like incredibly really
really hard songs that are just like excellent rapping from
them and then just like the best beat you've ever
heard in your entire life, you know. And he's and
obviously with him singing on a lot of those songs too,
like he's doing his own hooks. He's like having these
like really excellent kind of like pop R and B hooks.
I mean it came from like, like I think, like
Trey songs dissed him once and was like, Drake can't sing,
(11:52):
and he was like, I'll show him, which is like,
is such a Drake thing? Which is like, well, I
mean like building the entire like branding of himself for
years was just like kind of like to piss off
Trey songs, what.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
A quest unbelievable. Something I love about how hotline bling
works like that for him is that, like you said,
this was after his Meek Mill beef and he'd just
been accused of not being serious enough about hip hop
and not taking his rap hardness seriously enough, and this
is how he chooses to respond. Yeah, it's just kind
(12:28):
of brilliant. It's funny that beef with Meek Mill was
such an amazing iconic night of hip hop radio, for
sure in New York. I remember, I was listening to
funk Maxter Flex. I was in a cab on the
way to a party, and it actually was so obsessed
with what was going on in the radio that it
got to the party and didn't even go in. I
just walked around in Brooklyn just like listening to this
(12:51):
rap beef unfold in real time on funk Master Flex,
And it was just an incredibly exciting, action packed pop
moment of hip hop as a sort of ongoing real
time thing. Yeah, And it was so wild that having
responded from basically responding to something like that, that he
would go to a song as pop as R and B,
(13:13):
as Slow Jammy and as forlorn as Hotline Bling is
something that just really bold move.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, And it also is such a big thing of
showing off just how much he understands hip hop, you know,
like it really does show off how much he understands
kind of that history and kind of you know, a
lot of what's made hip hop work and successful is
like it's dance music, you know, like it's meant to be,
you know, great dance music, and so you know, I
think that is just like such a great coup for
(13:41):
him to kind of come back off of already a
hit diss record like that song was also having back
to back and Hotline Bling simultaneously blowing up over the
course of that year. Like it was. I remember going
to like clubs and they would play them, like both
the songs at the same time, you know, like just
to kind of highlight this like massive year that Drake
was having. But yeah, I mean just they were kind
(14:02):
of coexisting as like the two sides of Drake his
Juckle and Hyde music.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, I mean, Holling Bling is so special because it's
also it's got its own sort of musical personality with
the sort of seventies Miami soul sound of it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Oh, there's been a lot of covers of it, but yeah,
I mean there's been like, like I love the Rikabadoo
remix of it. Billie Eilish did like a version of it.
Justin Bieber did a version which I actually really liked.
His version of the song I thought that was kind
of a fun one, and I kind of always always
liked that they always played with beans sort of each
other's kind of Toronto pop mirrors in a lot of
ways over the.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Years, interestingly linked spiritual twins. Yeah, in some interesting ways.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I thought one of the smartest things Drake has ever
done is have Justin Bieber Starr and his pop Star video.
I thought that was the most brilliant casting he's ever done.
I was like, this is perfect for a song called
pop Star, Justin Bieber, you know, lip syncing to it. Like,
I'm like, this is like an actually like perfect little
little moment from.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm intrigued by the Beyonce Drake combination that because it
is interesting that, like you said about the ego and
the self seriousness, whereas I mean, it's just very different
for her. He is willing to seem silly in a
way that she wouldn't or you.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Know, yeah, and I feel like she's just starting to
be sillier.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But I also feel like for he and Beyonce, there's
so much, so much symbiosis that they have yet to
explore fully.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, I mean, even like the song Mine on Beyonce
self titled Deeply Underrated Tracks for an album, And I
think they just work really well as duet partners because
they both kind of straddle that like the hardness and
the softness very well of both hip hop and R
and B, and like that's something that they both lean
into at the same time. I'm kind of surprised that
(15:50):
they haven't done more over the years, because I think
they would. They really kind of, like I don't know,
sort of flourish together in that way. And I really
kind of I've always really liked their like innership.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It seems so perfect. Also, what you said about him
being the ultimate risk taker is so true of her.
That they're both fearless in a way that you can't
really imagine anybody else being that fearless together at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, I feel like the one sort of downfall for Drake,
and that is like Beyonce's a very good editor. Beyonce
is very she's very strict with how she puts things out,
and Drake is not Drake, And I mean, I mean,
I guess like it's two different kinds of risk takers, right,
Like Beyonce is like very like virgo calculated of like
I'm going to be thinking about exactly the risk that
(16:33):
I'm going to take, and we're going to put in
all of her effort and we're going to make the
best house album you've ever heard in your entire life,
and it's going to be so referential to everything in
the history of house music. And Drake's like, what if
I just called up this artist from the scene that
I like and I try out an accent and sometimes
it works and sometimes it doesn't, And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Absolutely yes. She is like the concept of quality control
does not have the same weight for him that it
does for her. She is so determined to keep her
flawless track record. She's like, there will never be a
bad track ever under this brand name. She's absolutely committed
to that quality control. And he does not worry about
(17:16):
the hits to Missus Ratio Yeah at all.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That is just math.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
He does not do.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, He's like, if you if you want to hear
British accent, let me try it real quick. Yes, Like
let's just see how it works. Like if you're not
cool with it, we'll move on. Yes, And I'm okay
with that, Like I think it's it's been for the
best that He's willing to like try and do that
because I think that's like made him who he is,
you know, that's made him so popular, and it's made
(17:43):
him such like a person who people you know, kind
of laugh with most of the time most of the time,
not all the time, but most of the time. And
he leans into that. He doesn't mind that. I'm wondering
if there's gonna be more of I feel like the
heated semi collab I'm Connie as a clap in my
head because I mean, also, some of those lines are
so peak peak Drake, but like, but yeah, I feel
(18:06):
like there has to be there has to be happening
in the future.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Absolutely well. They both have the undeniable ear for a classic,
yeah no, and the hotline bling is I mean, that's
a song that people will be singing forever, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Ear for a classic, and also a great knowledge of history,
like of music history, Like they both. Drake is so
good at picking samples, so good at like really you know,
finding like really great R and B songs to sort
of integrate into his music and to use and to
sing along with and you know, make a part of it. Obviously,
this episode, as probably our listeners can tell much of
(18:39):
it was recorded prior to the Great Drake Kendrick lamarbef
of twenty twenty four that involves future and Metro Boomin
and Jack Antonov randomly and everyone else. I want us
to kind of revisit a conversation that we had in
this episode and the conversation that we will be having
with Jeff in the next segment. I'm curious how you
(19:00):
think this particular moment between Drake and Kendrick Lamar will
affect the future of Drake. Will this lower Hotline Bling
and other Drake songs on the list and future incarnations?
Will we forget about him altogether? What will happen now
that all of these diss songs have come out and
Drake has ostensibly kind of lost in the war between
(19:25):
Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We've been talking about Hotline Bling as a moment in
Drake's long, complex career, an ongoing career, and an ongoing moment.
We've been talking about him and his rap career and
what this pop moment means in his rap career. And
of course, you know, while we're talking about this now
in twenty twenty four, obviously a lot is going on
(19:48):
with Drake and his participation in an old school rap beef,
except none of the old school rap beefs were actually
like this.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
No rap beef has ever happened this quickly. Yeah, No
one's ever dropped a song fifteen minutes after someone dropped theirs.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yes, I mean, this makes the old like you know,
South Bronx, Queen's Bad be like you know mc shan,
that kind of back and forth seem like snail mail
in comparison. Also, I mean a very strange beef. Honestly,
I can't think of any hip hop beef that compares
to this in terms of one very artistic, serious, for
(20:25):
lack of a better word, rapper who is like very
much a poet, a complex artist, a winner of a
Pulitzer Prize versus one who has always been a pop
entertainer in addition to everything else he is. And we've
got a Pulitzer Prize winner versus someone who is onto
grassy Junior High. It's very strange for them to be
(20:46):
competing on any level, but to have this kind of
beef is without precedent.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I mean, and also Kendrick Lamar beating Drake at his
own game, I mean his song debut at number one.
I mean all is like all of his songs charted
and did much better than Drake. And of course the
thing that Drake has had is incredible chart success. I mean,
this is someone who's like beating Beatles records. You know,
He's the person who's like finally kind of broke through
(21:12):
and beat a lot of those you know, big kind
of sales and chart records that had not yet been
broken just in terms of the volume of hits that
he's had and kind of in that way got beat
in his own game. I mean again, the timing of
Hotline Bling was coming after a beef with Meek Mill
that Drake was having and you know, back to back
(21:33):
being Drake's diss song which ended up becoming like a
massive hit, and therefore he won that battle, and Hotline
Bling sort of further solidifying that by becoming an even
bigger song. Like I'm wondering, like, is he going to
try to do that again? Like is he going to
try to drop in twenty twenty four his new version
of Hotline Bling that sort of like overtakes the beef
(21:55):
and kind of goes beyond the dis songs as just
like a pop hit like could that be his way
of sort of like kind of secretly side stuffing the
dissongs by just Drafia, another big pop hit banger. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I don't know, Honestly, it's hard to tell because I mean,
a rap beef is Kendrick's home turf. Yeah, Drake is
the out of town team and this like he's never
been the artist that you go to for that. He's
got more slaps than the Beatles, but like you know,
the Beatles wouldn't have won a rap beef war with
Kendrink either, nobody would. But it's not I mean not
(22:29):
even like Boogey Down Productions versus like Queensbridge so much
as like Boogeann Productions versus pm DON, which is a
rap beef that nobody remembered because it was a very
serious street artistic philosopher king of hip hop versus a
pop act with the number one hit, and it just
didn't make any cultural impact because there was you know,
(22:52):
there was really no common ground. Neither of them had
something that the other one wanted. It's obviously too early
to tell this is ongoing thing, but I had to
picture this doing long term damage to either of them,
but it's hard just because that isn't the standard that
people generally measured Drake.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
But maybe why it's been such like a shocking development,
and like this is the most damage it's done to Drake,
you know, this is like probably the most kind of
like public image, and Drake usually pretty unbreakable just because
he is like such a meme in and of himself,
Like that is something he's lead into. He's like leaned
into a lot of the joke of the Drake of
(23:27):
it all right, But like this is just because it's
very clear that there's like someone from his own team
kind of leaking stuff to Kendrick. Like there's like kind
of levels to a lot of what's going on like
behind the scenes for Drake, levels to a lot of
what Kendrick alleges in the songs. And it's very fascinating
because I mean, even when we spoke, you know, a
(23:49):
while ago about the song for this episode, like it
almost seemed like there was nothing that could kind of
break that Drake success bubble. And this is maybe the
closest is gotten. But I'm also not in that same
way sure this is like the end in any way
for Drake, Like I do kind of genuinely think that
he probably has a hotline bling in my feelings nice
(24:12):
for what level type of like summer smash in him.
Still that like immediately people move on from He's.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Taken l's like this before. That's the essence of Drake, right,
he takes l's. That's what he does.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Drake thesis of everything.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yes, likee yes.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
The constant themes with Drake are girls love Drake and
Drake loses, like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Hot line Blink.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, people thought people thought pusha and ended Drake. Ye,
Like they seriously thought that, and it seemed like he
could never come back from this, and of course it
went down in history. Is one of the great l's
that Drake takes because that's what Drake does.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
So what's that?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, exactly, So to me it fits in with hotline
Blink because hotline Bling is like, Drake is not the
winner of that battle with the girl. She's wearing lesson
going out more. You know, Kendrick could be you know,
like the one in Hotline Blaying who's like, you know,
leaving Drake behind charity Moore, Yeah, exactly. But you know,
(25:13):
part of what people love about Drake is, you know
that he gets beat down, like in his songs. Yeah,
and that's just something about him that people relate to.
And so I think he comes out of this. I
could be wrong, but I think this fits into a
long tradition of Drake taking l's and people like, ah,
(25:33):
that Drake. He sure got beat this time, he said,
the Drake of it all.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Next up, we will be joined by Rolling Stone Senior
editor Jeffy Hasa. And now we're joined by senior Editor
Rolling Stone, Jeffy Haza. Thank you so much for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So tell us a little bit about your your relationship
with Drake over the years.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Oh my goodness, it's funny actually. So I'm from Houston,
Texas originally, and when Drake was first really popping off,
this has to have been in two thousand and nine,
maybe two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. A
lot of his early shows were at in Houston. I
think he wraps about like nine at Warehouse, like his
buncoming or whatever. And I'll never forget I worked at
Kroger grocery store and I was like a bag boy,
(26:16):
and I had a crush on the girl who was
the cashier that I was bagging for, and that was
the beginning of me knowing who Drake was and listening
to Drake.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And do you remember where you were or kind of
like how you heard Hotline Blane when it first came out.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, So fast forward all those years later, I think
I just moved to New York or i'd been here
for like a year or so, and I was working
at a different music magazine and I had the graveyard
shift editor job, so it was like he announced that
it was dropping, and then it was my job that
night to like write up the premiere. So I was
very much like refreshing the page waiting to see it.
(26:52):
And then you know, when the video came out, all
those memes came along with it of like him in
the room and the dancing and everything, and then one
of the first like blog post that ever and was
like all of the funny memes to come out of
the Hotline playing music video. Very impactful moment in my
music journalism career.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I'd say, yeah, I feel like the that summer it
was like the first summer, like the first true summer
of Drake.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
It felt like, yeah, that whole year honestly, Yeah, he
kind of ran twenty fifteen to a point where, you know,
the haters came out.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Of the woodwork as we saw.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I feel like that same year Kanye was doing like
I forget what release Kanye was doing or what was
going on, but he had this big concert in Madison
Square Park and like Push a T, Travis Scott, all
these people were there, and then all these videos came
out the next day of like Drake in the crowd,
like trying to get up front, and it was like
the beginning of people like hating on Drake in this
where it's like Kanye didn't even let you into the
(27:44):
show type of big. But yeah, that summer, like Drake
was so hot that I feel like there were just
all these arrows coming at him because everyone wanted to
take him off like the perch.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You know, were you both immediate fans of this song
when he first heard it.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, it didn't take it long because it's got that
like I don't know what the classic thing is called,
but it kind of the rhythm of it feels very
reminiscent of like a like a Honolulu like vacation song
or something, or like something you'd played a wedding like
it just immediately kind of catches you as like, oh,
this is a very almost wholesome song, even though it's
very not wholesome yea what he's talking.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
About on it.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I feel like everyone was taken by Hotline Playing immediately,
Like it was there's no corner of music that was
untouched by loving Hotline Playing.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And it was such a weird sound that really retro
Miami sound really transposed to a really different sort of
emotional story, and it definitely it got your attention, and
that was even before anybody saw the video, which was
different kind of attention getting.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, it reminds me a lot of hold on, We're
going Home, where it's like it's Drake in this like
retro pop vibe, which is so outside of the norm
from what you see from rappers or even pop stars.
And I think like he kind of does that really well.
It's one of the many like little like that he
can put on where it's like okay, dude, you're Bobby called, Well,
we'll take it.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I feel like he was so good at catering to
like his female audience because he realized very early on
how much like like girls just loved his music and
like he kind of catered to it in a way
that was so specific and so like you said, like
so outside of what so many rappers were doing at
that time and singing and like really making a point
to show off that he can sing and you know,
(29:26):
hold on, we're going home with such a big moment
for him in that way, and I think obviously sets
the tone for this. And then he'd have a hit
with like One Dance Later and Passion Food and you know,
like obviously like in my feelings and nice for what
kind of also have this kind of like you know,
lightness to them and sort of like party kind of
club vibe to them. That's like so much different than
(29:46):
a lot of other stuff he had been doing prior.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, I feel like this is pop star drink.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, this is where he's like kind of you know,
I think when he came onto the scene, it was
like I can rap and I can sing, And then
into this era he starts to get into like I
can also do Taylor Swift number with these major hits.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, this is the year that they had the Apple Music.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, she was in your feelings.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Like Drake, you know, even just that summer of having
back to back and hotline blank, which are such like
disparate sides of who Drake is. Like this like really
hard to song at another rapper and that he like
really owned, and then this like really great sort of
like sung Miami ish like R and B song, which
is perfect.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Well, that's a really fun way to like end a
rap beef. It's like to now, I'm just gonna come
out with like the softest song ever.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
But only Drake.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I feel like, Oh, that's like kind of Drake's specialty
where it's he doesn't he doesn't like fulfill any expectations,
especially when it comes to hip hop. It's like he
does his own thing genuinely. And I think his fans
and people who really love him they respond to that
because it's like he's willing to be vulnerable. He's willing
to be you know, self deprecating. Even though Drake is
probably two in his head about.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It these days.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, I feel like he really had fun with being
a meme when it came up, Like it was something
where he didn't take it too seriously. And I think
a lot of artists can and feel so like self
conscious about it and like in their head about it
and like take it very, very personally, Whereas I think
like Drake really owned it and kind of loved it
because he knew that was like the power of the
audience and like what kept him in the conversation.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, I mean, Drake is so Internet savvy, and I
feel like this hotline and bling moment is kind of
the beginning of us really seeing how savvy.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
He is with the Internet.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I know we were talking earlier about how that song
was ten years ago, and it's like for the past
ten years, Drake has dominated the conversation primarily because he's
so good at being like the subject of the internet's
you know, ire or love one day or the other,
and he kind of knows how to just own it
and not like flame out. Like we've seen a lot
of artists flame out. There's one flaming out today.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And I mean, let's talk about the video a little bit,
because the video is so good and like, even just
like rewatching it, I'm like, I don't even know what
it was about this, Like it's such a great video obviously,
but like I'm like, I cannot believe how much this
video overtook culture for like as long as it did,
Like it's like so simple. It's just like Drake dancing
and just Neon like rooms, and it works so well
(32:20):
because he's just like kind of it's just funny to
watch him dance, and it's.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Just Drake, right, if I'm remembering correctly. It's like there's
not like a whole background dancer.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
There's like one dancer who shows up randomly, and then
there's like the call center girls. At the beginning, I
did a group costume for Hotlines playing that year. I
was a call center girl, and then one of my
friends was Drake and then another friend Why go Aground?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
The video is like it's so minimal and it's so
like I think the lighting of it and the way
that Drake dances in it just became so immediately like
this is what we're doing now. From twenty fifteen to
like twenty sixty or seventeen, almost like Borat where it's
like one of those things that happens and then everywhere
you look it's like someone's making a joke about it.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there was, like I mean
it was there were memes for like a year. There's
references on like every show and it's even crazier that
it's not even like I feel like Hotline Blink isn't
even like the primary thing you think of when you
think of Drake anymore. Like it's right how everywhere that
song was like it it's not necessarily the thing people
even associate with Drake. Like there's so much other like
(33:25):
really massive hits he's had since then, or like giant
cultural moments that he's had since then.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah, it's like, you know, that was the first of
many of his like world smashing pop crossover hits, whereas
you mentioned like One Dance, Passion Fruit, those all came
I feel like right after actually because they're all on views.
But I feel like the guy's got it, you know
when he makes these big statement songs, like they take
over and then it's he does so many of them
(33:50):
that you almost forget that he did that. Like when
we were talking about doing this episode, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Hotline Blink, that song is amazing, Like it's just one
of those things about Drake.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, but I feel like everyone, especially with like you know,
more of his more at the Twin One Savage album
and all that, Like it seems like he's kind of
moved towards just being like harder Drake again.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, what do you.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Think of that?
Speaker 4 (34:13):
I think he's been so tested by his peers where
you know, kind of like we're talking about, you know,
twenty fifteen and onwards, he's been like the main target
at the same time, and I think he's someone who
seems to need to have the need to prove himself
or feel the need to prove himself. So instead of
giving us full on house bangers for the past ten years,
(34:35):
which I'm sure in his heart is what he wants
to be doing, it's like someone tests him and he's like,
you know what, I gotta rap again just to make
sure they know that, like I still got it, I'm still.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Him or whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
Meanwhile, his real fans we want that, honestly, never mind Drake,
we want the Abeza Drake. Like, I'm good with that.
I'm good if he never wraps again. Just does hotline blinks.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I feel the exact same way.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
What's gonna happen when Drake is like happy, like he
gets merri or something and falls in love.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh no, I.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Feel like Drake is like the least satisfied man.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I think him in future of a song about that.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, he sort of built that into the system.
I don't think we have to worry about that.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, that'll be the twist in pop culture though, Like
Drake pulls up and he's like happily married. Say, guys,
I love my wife.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I would I think a wife, guy Drake wife be
really earth shattering.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, that's how you really change it up.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
By for Drake his version of Man of the Woods.
You know, like, yeah, well, thank you so much Jeff
for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Thank you guys, it's just fun.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred
Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling
Stone and iHeartMedia. Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And Rob Sheffield, Executive.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde, and
produce by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Thanks for watching, and thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.