June 12, 2024 • 30 mins
Gladys Knight and the Pips were two decades into their career when they released their signature song, “Midnight Train to Georgia”. Formed in 1952, the legendary band was comprised of Gladys Knight, her brother Bubba Knight and their cousins William Guest and Edward Patten. They were originally signed to Motown Records in1966 but found their time on the label to be an uphill battle, with acts like Marvin Gaye, the Temptations and the Supremes given priority.
Their eventual 1973 signing to Buddha Records ended up giving them an unexpected fresh start. For their debut single on the label, they recorded a new version of Jim Weatherly's folky track "Midnight Plane to Houston,” pulling from a Cissy Houston cover of Weatherly's song that had already changed the city and mode of transportation in the title. The rest is history, with "Midnight Train to Georgia" becoming the group's biggest and most signature track.
On this week’s episode our hosts are joined by the song's engineer and mixer Ed Stadium, who shares the fascinating history of how this song came together, as well as an alternate version of the song from his archives. Listen in as they explore why this track remains a standout in the group's illustrious career and the emotional depth that Gladys Knight's voice brings to the song.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Spanis and.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Today we are going to talk about Midnight Train to
Georgia by Gladys Knight and the Pips. Tell me a
little bit of your history with this song and how
much you love it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's not just one of my favorite songs. It's arguably
the song I've listened to most times in my life.
Not once in my life have I listened to it
once and not wanted to hear it again. I'm always
sad when it's over. If I'm listening to it on
the radio and the DJ fades it out one tiny
bit early, I take it so personally, I'm like, I
want every single one of those fade out like his world,
(00:46):
My worldli yea. It is a song so universal. Yeah,
if you knew somebody and they didn't think this was
a particularly good song, you'd think of them as just
a lesser.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Person, right, Yeah, it should be illegal to fade out
before that I've got to go at the end. You're
not listening to that for the full song, it's not
it doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yes, it's a song where every time you hear it,
you're following the story all the way through, even though
you know the story of the song, you know the
plot of the song that you're hanging on till the
very final seconds.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it's riveting from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Unbelievable. Yeah, Gladys Night and the Pips one of the
all time great careers from beginning to end, so many
amazing songs along the way, and it's wild how this
one just stands out like a skyscraper.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So this song was on the two thousand and four
list at four thirty two, and it remains on the
list now at four seventy. And I mean it is
a song that has become the signature song in the
Glass Night and the Pips catalog. And it came two
decades after they first formed. Of course, they were just
known as the Pips at first. They were a family band.
It was a lot of sort of them sort of
(01:51):
reading the line up for a few years of people
starting families. There's more cousins in the band originally, and
you know, Gladys left for a little bit, but the
the Pips as we know it, the popular lineup includes
Glass's brother, Bubba Knight, and the cousins William Guest and
Edward Patten, who comprised the Pips as we know them
and love them, and they would sign to Motwan in
(02:11):
nineteen sixty six, and this was kind of a worrying
signing for Gladys.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
She's very, very.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Worried and had a right to be worried that they
would become sort of second string on Barry Gordy's list
of acts on the roster. Of course, you know Diana
Ross and the Supremes and Marvin Gay huge huge acts
in the sixties, and Gladys was super concerned that they
would kind of be secondary and for a while it
did seem to kind of be true. They felt like
they were losing a lot of songs to Marvin and
(02:38):
Diana particularly, who were kind of the breadwinners of this
label at the time. But they would have their first
hit with I Heard through the grape Vine, which was
their fourth single, and that song would end up being
the first big hit for Glass Night in the Pips,
and of course though it would be given as a
cover to Marvin Gay a few years later, and that'd
become the version that everyone kind of has come to
know and sort of the version that would outsell a
(02:59):
lot of that, and eventually the band would would leave
Motown altogether, not before, of course, they would bring the
Jackson five onto the label. They're actually very responsible for
helping bring the Jackson five onto Motown because the Jackson
five would open for Glass Night and the Pips and
Gladys was so taken by this boy band that had
opened for them. But when it came to contract negotiations,
(03:21):
they decided that they need to go elsewhere. They went
to Buddha Records, and their very first hit off of
Buddha Records is none other than Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Kind of a cosmic sign that they got to go.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
They got to go and the family connection that you mentioned,
it's so crucial in this song that you can hear
it in their voices. These are people who have been
through thick and thin together. They have one big lost
big together. They will stick with each other through thick
and thin. This is not just a group who formed
in a talent show or something like that, and you
can hear that connection between their voices and that you
(03:55):
know they had been at the absolute bottom together, and
they had and through really hungry, scary times together. And
you can hear that in all their voices, especially hers
because she's the lead singer, but you hear so much
lifelong adult resilience and loyalty and their voices. Here famous
story when they signed to Motown. They were in New York.
(04:15):
They were scared. They were out of towners. They were nice,
well brought up Southern kids. They were in the big city.
They got a call that Motown would give them an audition,
not a gig, but an audition. But the catch was
they had to pay their own way to Detroit from
New York. They have no money, they're broke. It's before them.
They're in the city where they don't know any but
(04:36):
don't know any other family or friends. The guitarist decides
to pawn his guitar. That's the only way that they
can make the bus tickets to get to Detroit for
this audition. That they have no assurance that anything would
come from this audition, and his guitar is pride and joy.
That's where their music comes from. And he pawns that
guitar and that gets them to Detroit. Everything from their
(04:57):
career follows from that. And you can hear so much
that Midnight trainto Georgia, Right, It's like it's that trip
where there's this absolute loyalty, this absolute certainty, but I
always love. You can hear that in so many of
the Glass Landed Pip songs, just that bond between them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And also the song itself has such like a fascinating history.
I did not even realize until starting to look into it.
The song was originally is written by and was originally
recorded by Jim Weatherley, And I mean it's originally called
Midnight Playing to Houston, and it sounds completely different. I mean,
just the way that Glass Night and the Pips reinvented
the song for their own version is completely different. Of course,
Jim Weatherley's version is much more kind of like folky,
(05:35):
you know, feels very like seventies folk of that time.
And also really loved the story behind writing that song,
which was actually inspired by Farah Flawcett and her saying
that she was taking a midnight playing to Houston to
go visit her family. She had picked up the phone
when Jim Weatherley was calling his friend Lee Majors, and
Far and Lee were dating at the time, and she
just happened to mention that she was taking a midnight
(05:56):
midnight playing to Houston. And he loved that phrase and
wrote an entire song based off it and inspired by
his own experiences as a sort of failed NFL player
who then.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Would get into music.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And then the song would end up being recorded by
Winnie Houston's mom, Sissy Houston, and she did her own
version and was the one to change it to Midnight
Train to Georgia. But her version, it's like not totally
what would become Glass Knight's version. Of course, the Sissy
Houston version is a little bit more of the gospel
infused kind of slower, still kind of the same sort
of cadence of the Jim Weatherly version, but sort of
(06:28):
moving it more into the R and B sphere. And
then we get this kind of really upbeat version as
opposed to the almost kind of sadder tone that the
previous two versions had. So like last Night and the
Pips end up kind of taking it to this kind
of kind of more a more of a step in
the in the beat in everything that they end up
infusing a song.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
With absolutely and so much to that is Gladys Knight's voice.
Because the song is so famous sometimes it overshadows what
they did before. Their sixties motown runs so legendary just
in terms of like the power of Gladys's voice and
that when she was very young and hits like every
beat of my Heart, she's got almost a girlish tone
in her voice. But her really legendary motown recordings from
(07:08):
like later in the sixties and early seventies are she's
absolutely an adult in a way that it's really kind
of breathtaking. And you listen to like some for huge
motown songs from before Midnight Train, like If I Were
Your Woman, which is just like a song that completely
shuts down everything else that happened to you that day
and you're just alone with that. It's such a terrifying
(07:29):
story in this song, and it's all just there in
her voice and in the way that the Pips in
Colin responds with her, and that's something that they were
so amazing at. Yet they were considered washed up at
the time that they did this song. They just weren't
on motown anymore. They had been through all these highs
and lows together and now they were on the skids.
They were starting over on Buddha Records, not Buddha as
(07:50):
inspelled correctly, like the Buddha Buddha spelled wrong because it's
a bubblegum label. It's not a taken seriously kind of label.
It's seventy these bubblegum hits and brilliant ones. Nobody's knocking
the legacy of you know, nineteen ten Fruit Gum Company
and the other big hits of Buddha Records. But this
is a group that we're famous on motown. They're not
(08:12):
wanting on moten anymore. They're washed up. They're starting over,
and that's so perfect for them, perfect for their voices.
And that's there right in the beginning of the song
and the way that she sings one of the great
opening lines. And all the pop music la proved too
much for the man.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, I mean also, like the Pips are I feel
like very still underrated as just kind of this like
vocal unit that is, like you mentioned the cal and
response and kind of the way that they are singing
with Gladys and kind of against Gladys and kind of
adding in so much to the song. I mean, the
song is nothing without that combination of Gladys with the Pips.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's a totally different thing.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
If it's like, and you hear this in both the
I mean, the Jim Weatherley and Cucy Houston versions are
amazing in their own right. But the reason why this
song took off the way it did is because that
combination of kind of Gladys telling the story about a
man who's kind of failing at his superstar career and
the Pip's kind of adding in this kind of Greek
chorus to it. And you know, it's such a perfect combination.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Honestly, I can't. It's unlike anything else in pop music
that they're telling the story together. And that's why it's funny.
Like you said, to listen to the earlier versions by
Jim Weatherley and Sissy Houston, which are so great, but
they're a lead singer telling a story. Yeah, and this
is Gladys Knight telling her story. The Pips are telling
the story along with her. They're rooting for her, they're
(09:35):
speaking to the audience, they're like, yeah, she does this
a lot, you know, like which she says, you know,
I'm got to be with him, and they're like, I
know you will. Yeah, And you can hear all those
times they've been through in the way that the Pips
are there telling the story, sometimes interrupting her, sometimes adding glasses,
you know, and she's like, yeah, he kept dreaming that
he was going to be a star. They're like a superstar,
(09:56):
but he didn't get fun.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I always love that line because it just sounds like
take it just a little like a little extra job
at him. It's like, if I were him, I'd be
really upset if I heard the pipsing it that way.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes, absolutely. And sometimes they're singing to her. Sometimes they're
singing to the audience, you know, when she's like, I'd
rather live in his world than live without him in mind,
and you know, they turn to the audience and they're
in third person out they're like, her world is his world,
his and hers alone, and this colm response between them.
It's not like any other song, and it goes all
the way through the song. Yeah, and it's amazing. You know,
(10:27):
you decide early in your life listening to the car
radio when you sing along with this song are you
gladys or are you a pip? And it is a
lifelong commitment yea, to be one of them.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean the way that they change the tone
of the song and the way that they tell the
story versus like this kind of a story that could
come off very sad. It's there is so much of that,
like that kind of excitement about taking the midnight train
to Georgia. They're kind of making such a case for
this being a great decision for her to really like
kind of follow follow him to Georgia and kind of
go there and like take this big risk. I mean
(11:00):
just again, like in that combination of how Gladys sings
it and kind of all this like life force that
she puts into it, and kind of the determination towards
the end like my man his girl, Like the way
she's like singing that part. I mean, there's so much
of that in throughout the song, and the Pips kind
of being like, you know, we can't argue that with that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, they're not trying to change her mind. Something I
love about this song. I mean, you listen to this
song your whole life. Yeah, year after year, decade after decade,
and it's amazing how how the story keeps deepening, how
so much there's more. I mean, she's not asking this
guy if he wants her to come along on the
midnight train to Georgia with him. Yeah, we don't even
know if he knows that she's going to be on
(11:39):
that train. You know. She's like, yeah, he came to
La from Georgia and didn't work out from here, he
bombed out. He's going back home. Yeah, he's not going
back home in triumphant circumstances. He's taking the midnight train.
He's going home and defeat and me, I'm going home
with him. And Georgia is not her place, you know,
like she doesn't know anybody there. It's very different for
(12:01):
her to be taking that train. And it's like the
Book of Ruth or something, you know, like and it's
funny how little of his voice or any is in
the song. We don't know if he needs her to
come back with him. I didn't even know if he
wants her to come back with him. Maybe she's just
like a girl that he met in La and he's like, yeah,
I'm going home, going to start over, you know, like
marry my high school sweetheart. You know, the road not
(12:22):
taken looks real good. Now She's like nope. You know
where he goes I go and his world is my world.
Unbelievable determination, Like you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Said, suddenly you're on a really depressing train back to
Georgia at midnight and there's none of them in glass
night and the Pips just waiting for you on the train.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yes, and she's going to be with him, and just
that determination when she's like, I'm going to be with
him and the Pips say, I know you will. It's
really kind of beautiful that they are absolutely cheering her
on and at the end when she's like on the
train platform and like is she really going to do it?
Is she going to go through with it? And you know,
and the Pips are, you know, saying like you can
do this. You got this really kind of beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And so much of the construction of the song and
the way that Gladys and the Pips are kind of
having that dialogue with each other and alongside each other
reminds me so much of like a lot of like
Alan Mankin's music for Disney, you know, reminds me of
just like in Hercules, you know, like the songs with
the Muses in there, and kind of the even like
Low Mermaid and all those kind of early nineties Disney
(13:21):
movies that you know, created these massive hits for Disney
and the kind of that new revival for Disney. So
much of them seemed owe a lot to Last Night
the Pips, and in particular a song like Midnight Training
to Georgia and that kind of conversation that these like
secondary kind of scening characters can have and kind of
make such a big part of these songs.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You are absolutely blowing. That is so true.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I feel like it did reminds me so much of
the Muses, and like you know, in Hercules particularly, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Beautiful when you know that the family, the family connection.
Gladys is often told the story she's very embarrassed. She's
a very shy person. She's very shy about improvising on mic.
The ad libbing is very difficult for her. She talked
about when she was recording this that her brother was
there in the studio right standing right next to her
mic whispering into her ear because she was too shy
to sing all those his world, my world, as long
(14:13):
as he's alone, and she was really shy about doing it,
and she needed him to be standing there and whispering
into her ear what the next line was, and just
really kind of amazing that that's how she recorded it,
was her brother's standing right next to her for moral support,
whispering the lines into her ear, and you can hear
so much of that in the final version of the song.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh yeah, definitely. The ad libs at the end are
the best part for me.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Those ad libs are like the just the cherry on
top of a great popcake.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah. Yeah, It's like half the song and it's just
unbelievably dramatic, and the whole song is building up to that,
and you still you still want it to go on.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Are you a gladys or a pip?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I'm always a bit you know. I had three sisters,
so like, you know, they were glad as sing I
was pipping. I was like and that was the way
it was. And there's something it's such a long and
fantastic R and B tradition that you know, the female
singer and the male backup singers who are kind of
telling the story with her but also kind of you know,
rooting for her, cheering her on. I always think of
(15:17):
one of the one of the great examples, Aliyah, Are
you that somebody where she's like telling us her in
Timbaland's there and he's like, it's a Leah's song. Timb
Bland is like you got this, you could do this,
don't be scared like you are that somebody, and he's like,
you know, beb a girl, you know, like and that
kind of commonresponse that's absolutely like another perfect example.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It is, Yeah, yeah, I wonder how much of that, like,
how much of those kind of moments in pop because
I made me kind of think of like the ODB
version of like Fantasy right where he's kind of like
totally like, I wonder how much of that is owed
to the very specific and particular type of relationship the
Pips and Gladys have in their music and in their discography.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You know, you think about something like another great exam
that I Love is another one of the greatest songs
of the twenty first century family affair Mary J. Blige,
and just the way that Drey's presence in the song
is an enabler and that sort of like beautiful column
response in Midnight Training to Georgia is so specific to
this song. Though, It's funny that the other song I
(16:19):
really think of is having A similar kind of approach
and similar kind of emotional impact is that the Beatles
song Help, Yeah, and it's well because you know, John
Lennon is telling that story and it's very personal, you know,
like I used to think I knew what I was
doing in life. I had no idea. I'm really scared.
I have no idea what's coming next. And it's amazing
when you listen to it, and the way it'd be
(16:39):
very differentive or John just singing the song, but he's
telling the story with Paul and George and they're singing
along with him in very much a Gladys and Pips
kind of way. Yeah, And they're telling the story along
with him, they're cheering him on, they're not entering the
story themselves. And that is a kind of similar impact
for me in terms of listening to those songs over
the years. I think of how different Help would be
if it were just John singing the song yeah, and
(17:01):
how different Midnight Train would be if it were just
Gladys even with her amazing powerful one time in human
history voice, but Gladys Knight has Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I guess Hey, I feel like now I'm thinking of
like the lyrics of Help and like how that song
always sounds so like like uplifting, you know, like yeah,
kind of like me, like here's me and my buddy.
Isn't like they're helping me, Like like when you think
of it like stripped down, and the same way with
Midnight Train to Georgia, Like when you strip it down
and it's like the lyrics are actually like kind of sad,
and like the tone totally shifts with that style of
storytelling and like with kind of just like that just
(17:31):
a little like tweak to how you it's actually delivered
and how it's kind of like put in the context
of all the vocalists together, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Really kind of beautiful their way almost like the background
singers are sort of like the angel on the shoulder saying,
you know, like don't worry dot where you could do this.
I hear a lot of Midnight Training to Georgia in
Outcasts and especially in Andred three thousand, but that beautiful
moment in international plays Anthem and the UGK song, I
think is a quintessential Midnight Train to Georgia. Yeah moment.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For me, it is making me think of Roses by Outcasts,
which is one of my maybe maybe my number one
Outcast song actually, but yeah, that that sort of Andre
being like his own but being both Gladys and the
Pips on his part of the song totally. Like even
the way he sings like Caroline, you know, like it's
just kind of like adding that call and response for himself.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Totally. We all need to be our own pip. I mean,
like it's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, I mean even think just like a lot of
Georgia born Atlanta, specifically rap artists who have come out
in the last like two decades, I feel like there
is so much of that, like you know, like the Migos,
you know, like it's just like that col and response
element of it and kind of the family band and
sort of that that interaction together feels like it owes
so much to Last Night and the Pips, And they
(18:44):
probably do pull directly from.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Glass and the Pips.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
They are such like fans of that era of music
and such fans of kind of classic motown music.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So I wouldn't I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Doubt that that's like a big part of what's inspire
them totally.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I think I think of a lot of Wu Tang
songs have a lot of connection to Midnight Training to Georgia,
like again, like just because of that, like that sense
of like people have known each other and been through
stuff together. Specifically the ghost Face song All That All
That I Got Is You Yeah from Iron Man, one
of the greatest songs ever and Mary J. Blige in
that song and the way that they're telling that story
together and it's a very different kind of story. It's
(19:21):
very sad childhood story, but the way that the different
voices in the song are telling the story together very
much part of that tradition for sure, Georgia connection. But
the Indigo Girls have a fantastic version of mind Night
Training to Georgia, And because they're folk duo, it's you know,
one voice is Gladys and one voice is the Pips,
(19:42):
and it's the only version of the song I know
like that where and it's just like the two voices
acoustic guitars and they strip it down and it's funny
and it's a live it's something they did live for
a while. And the live version is so interesting because
when they do it at the beginning, you can hear
the audience laugh a little bit and they think, like, oh,
this is gonna be funny. This is like a beloved
seventies old and they're doing like sort of a you know,
(20:03):
quasi camp version of it. Yeah, and it's funny that
you hear that reaction at first, that that's what people expect,
and as they're telling the story together, you can hear
how it transforms them, Like no, it like the singers
know like what kind of story this is, and they
know it's a story that has to be told together
and that they deal with just those two voices. It's
unlike any other version of the song that I know,
But it's just it's so moving and so powerful and
(20:23):
so clever.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
The furthest I could I could think of was a
great thirty rock scene. Where do you tell there's some
where Kenneth is going back to Georgia and he the
cast starts singing Midnight Train, which is fun. It's a
good time last night's in the episode. You know, it's cute,
it's storing thirty rock.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
After the break, we will be joined by Ed Stacium,
who was the engineer and mixer on Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We are here with the production legend and stays you,
Oh yeah, that's you man.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Thanks Rob I want to know how.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I know this was very early in your career, and
I'm curious how you connected with Glass Night and the
Pips and got attached to this record.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Tony Caamello, who was the producer of Midnight Train Camello
had a partner, Tony bon Jovi, the Great Tony bon Jovi.
So when I first got there, Tony was Camello's engineer.
Tony was tight with Neil Bogart at Buddha Records. Tony,
they had finished up their contract. They didn't want to
sign back with Motown. They just had a big hit
(21:33):
with neither one of us. And you know, of course
earlier had heard through the grapevine. So Neil, Neil Bogart
loved Tony and I went into Neil's office with him
several times at the Buddha offices and he would always
like be pouring Kanyac and heaven knows what else happened,
and he wanted to he said, He called up Tony.
He says, Tony, I want you to work on some
(21:55):
of these Gladyson Night tracks. Boom, there we go. So
we cut some track. We cut it twice before we
ended up the final take. So it's Neil Bogart, loving
Tony's work, thought Tony had a vibe and which he did.
He was a great producer, a musical genius.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Did Gladys Knight have the song Midnight Train when she
came in.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I think the song came through Neil and Tony. You know,
I'm not privy to some of the dealings that went
on with the record company. I do know some things.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Anyway, there was a.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Publisher, I don't know who it was, pushing the song,
and Sissy Houston, Whitney's mom, who used to come down
and sing backing vocals on some of the I think
she sang on those Cecil Home Sulful Sounds records Sissy did.
She was a studio backup singer in New York at
(22:48):
that time, so she had a record deal and her
and Sissy and her manager wanted to change the lyric
from Midnight Playing to Houston to Midnight Trained to Georgia,
which was a great idea. So I saw the sheet
news that that Tony had still had Midnight Playing Houston
written on it. But by the time we got the
(23:11):
demos and somebody had, you know, told Gladys that they
should do the song. It was already changed to Midnight
Train to Georgia, changed by Sissy Houston. That's who requested
that they changed the lyric.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So Gladys Knight is the song. How did the session happen?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Right? We three sessions. I don't have a copy of
the very first one, but I have a copy of
the second one that would you like to hear a
little bit of it? And this is take one.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Lao, you must follow the man. So he's leaving the
life he's come to know, he said, he's going back
(24:19):
to part Yeah, who what's left off his world?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So as you can hear, it's a much slower version.
We don't there's no there's no strings on it yet.
Tony would have put strings and horns on it. But
this is interesting. A couple of spots here she sings
midnight Train to Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Check it out on that midnight train to it better?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Pretty cool, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Totally different thought.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, oh yeah yeah. And here's a cool little there's
a scratch trap that Tony did which is emulating backing vocals.
We'll play that with Gladys.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
That's for fun.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
It's pretty cool, you know, yes, like train Jolter.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
And you'll be gone, he's going back to bun Long
go oh.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Some time.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yes with him, I'm going with train John Train your.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He said, that was the second session.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
That you worked with.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, there was one before this. I don't have the
y track. So we sent this to glad As I
recall sent a multi track to Gladys and then she
put a vocal on it. She says, I don't like this.
I don't like this version. It's too slow, and I
believe that. Bubba also said, we need something that's happening.
We need something that's more in the al green kind
(26:15):
of vibe, you know, down home southern, you know, a
little dirty. So that's how they suggested it. So Tony
was actually at this time he was he's getting a
little nervous because you know, he really wanted to get
this record done. We had to get it out there,
and so Gladys. He talked to Gladys and she's like,
(26:36):
we gotta get we got to make something better. We
gotta have an al green feel. Okay, you can kind
of relate to the final version and how that is.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What was it like recording Gladys's vocal, But the final session,
Gladys's vocal is so great.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Well one to Detroit. You can hear the ideas that
Tony had there for some backing vocals, right, Gladys went
out and did a real quick vocal when I didn't
you know, I wou'd never met. I had never been
in that studio before. It was my first airplane flight,
never been in that studio before. Here I go checked
the input level. Okay, I want to sing now, go
go go saying. Glass did a quick reference vocal. I
was able to twitter it a little bit. And then
(27:13):
the Pips went out and did their backing vocals, and
they pretty much did those backing vocals one line at
a time, and Tony was guiding them through that. Tony
and Bubba came up with a few, but like Tony
Camello came up with that a super.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Bistar buddy who didn't get FA, which is you.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Know, classic and the Boo boo. I think Tony came
up with that as well. I believe you know either
not drained to Georgia Midnight Drain the Georgia Boo boo.
So we did that each line pretty much a line
at a time with Glass's guide vocal. We double tracked
each one. We would do the line like a super
(27:48):
bistar buddy didn't get far, and then we would double
that line and then went on to the next line.
Then we would get it, and they would do it
several times until I really hit it on. Tony wanted
it to be very precise and you know, tight, and
those backing vocals are tight, and they're double tracked. So
we do each like I said, each line at the time,
and then we finished the backing vocals and it was Gladys'
(28:10):
turn to Okay, I want to do a real vocal.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Now here I go.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
And this is funny. Gladys whould eat a lemon before
you go into record. She always had a lemono whether
she cut it and put in her mouth and eat
it like an orange. And she went out there says
I'm ready to do.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
A vocal now.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yes. She did the final vocal, one take, what's what?
One take all the way through, and there was one
line in the fade on the somewhere I got to go,
I got to go, Hey, one of those somewhere I don't.
And I listened to it in solo because I have
the multi track of that as well. I could not
figure which one it was that we went to Bell
(28:48):
Sound in New York and just punched in one line,
but the whole body of the song is a one
take vocal. It's amazing. What a singer. There's a thrill,
there's a real thrill to work with them. Yeah, I
wanted to play a little bit of the Pips on
in solo because it sounds so good.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And yeah, so we can hear a little bit about
a little bit of the isolated vocals from the Pips.
I know you want to play for us.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Last bit night Shame George that same.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It's just great.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, going back to.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Fine whenever he takes that ride, I guess it's gonna
be right by his side.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I know you will really tight, really really tight and night.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Trash George Living whoa.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Whold is his His and hers alone?
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Dream man a superstar.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
But it didn't get far. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Wow, I wasn't incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, that sounds amazing. Thank you so much for all
this music that you've made, especially the one we're talking
about today, Midnight Train to Georgia, a classic song.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
It was my pleasure great to see both of you.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for listening to
Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought
to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted
by me, Rob Sheffield.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
And Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,
and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Thanks for listening, Thanks for watching.
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Spanis and.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Today we are going to talk about Midnight Train to
Georgia by Gladys Knight and the Pips. Tell me a
little bit of your history with this song and how
much you love it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's not just one of my favorite songs. It's arguably
the song I've listened to most times in my life.
Not once in my life have I listened to it
once and not wanted to hear it again. I'm always
sad when it's over. If I'm listening to it on
the radio and the DJ fades it out one tiny
bit early, I take it so personally, I'm like, I
want every single one of those fade out like his world,
(00:46):
My worldli yea. It is a song so universal. Yeah,
if you knew somebody and they didn't think this was
a particularly good song, you'd think of them as just
a lesser.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Person, right, Yeah, it should be illegal to fade out
before that I've got to go at the end. You're
not listening to that for the full song, it's not
it doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yes, it's a song where every time you hear it,
you're following the story all the way through, even though
you know the story of the song, you know the
plot of the song that you're hanging on till the
very final seconds.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it's riveting from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Unbelievable. Yeah, Gladys Night and the Pips one of the
all time great careers from beginning to end, so many
amazing songs along the way, and it's wild how this
one just stands out like a skyscraper.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So this song was on the two thousand and four
list at four thirty two, and it remains on the
list now at four seventy. And I mean it is
a song that has become the signature song in the
Glass Night and the Pips catalog. And it came two
decades after they first formed. Of course, they were just
known as the Pips at first. They were a family band.
It was a lot of sort of them sort of
(01:51):
reading the line up for a few years of people
starting families. There's more cousins in the band originally, and
you know, Gladys left for a little bit, but the
the Pips as we know it, the popular lineup includes
Glass's brother, Bubba Knight, and the cousins William Guest and
Edward Patten, who comprised the Pips as we know them
and love them, and they would sign to Motwan in
(02:11):
nineteen sixty six, and this was kind of a worrying
signing for Gladys.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
She's very, very.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Worried and had a right to be worried that they
would become sort of second string on Barry Gordy's list
of acts on the roster. Of course, you know Diana
Ross and the Supremes and Marvin Gay huge huge acts
in the sixties, and Gladys was super concerned that they
would kind of be secondary and for a while it
did seem to kind of be true. They felt like
they were losing a lot of songs to Marvin and
(02:38):
Diana particularly, who were kind of the breadwinners of this
label at the time. But they would have their first
hit with I Heard through the grape Vine, which was
their fourth single, and that song would end up being
the first big hit for Glass Night in the Pips,
and of course though it would be given as a
cover to Marvin Gay a few years later, and that'd
become the version that everyone kind of has come to
know and sort of the version that would outsell a
(02:59):
lot of that, and eventually the band would would leave
Motown altogether, not before, of course, they would bring the
Jackson five onto the label. They're actually very responsible for
helping bring the Jackson five onto Motown because the Jackson
five would open for Glass Night and the Pips and
Gladys was so taken by this boy band that had
opened for them. But when it came to contract negotiations,
(03:21):
they decided that they need to go elsewhere. They went
to Buddha Records, and their very first hit off of
Buddha Records is none other than Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Kind of a cosmic sign that they got to go.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
They got to go and the family connection that you mentioned,
it's so crucial in this song that you can hear
it in their voices. These are people who have been
through thick and thin together. They have one big lost
big together. They will stick with each other through thick
and thin. This is not just a group who formed
in a talent show or something like that, and you
can hear that connection between their voices and that you
(03:55):
know they had been at the absolute bottom together, and
they had and through really hungry, scary times together. And
you can hear that in all their voices, especially hers
because she's the lead singer, but you hear so much
lifelong adult resilience and loyalty and their voices. Here famous
story when they signed to Motown. They were in New York.
(04:15):
They were scared. They were out of towners. They were nice,
well brought up Southern kids. They were in the big city.
They got a call that Motown would give them an audition,
not a gig, but an audition. But the catch was
they had to pay their own way to Detroit from
New York. They have no money, they're broke. It's before them.
They're in the city where they don't know any but
(04:36):
don't know any other family or friends. The guitarist decides
to pawn his guitar. That's the only way that they
can make the bus tickets to get to Detroit for
this audition. That they have no assurance that anything would
come from this audition, and his guitar is pride and joy.
That's where their music comes from. And he pawns that
guitar and that gets them to Detroit. Everything from their
(04:57):
career follows from that. And you can hear so much
that Midnight trainto Georgia, Right, It's like it's that trip
where there's this absolute loyalty, this absolute certainty, but I
always love. You can hear that in so many of
the Glass Landed Pip songs, just that bond between them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And also the song itself has such like a fascinating history.
I did not even realize until starting to look into it.
The song was originally is written by and was originally
recorded by Jim Weatherley, And I mean it's originally called
Midnight Playing to Houston, and it sounds completely different. I mean,
just the way that Glass Night and the Pips reinvented
the song for their own version is completely different. Of course,
Jim Weatherley's version is much more kind of like folky,
(05:35):
you know, feels very like seventies folk of that time.
And also really loved the story behind writing that song,
which was actually inspired by Farah Flawcett and her saying
that she was taking a midnight playing to Houston to
go visit her family. She had picked up the phone
when Jim Weatherley was calling his friend Lee Majors, and
Far and Lee were dating at the time, and she
just happened to mention that she was taking a midnight
(05:56):
midnight playing to Houston. And he loved that phrase and
wrote an entire song based off it and inspired by
his own experiences as a sort of failed NFL player
who then.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Would get into music.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And then the song would end up being recorded by
Winnie Houston's mom, Sissy Houston, and she did her own
version and was the one to change it to Midnight
Train to Georgia. But her version, it's like not totally
what would become Glass Knight's version. Of course, the Sissy
Houston version is a little bit more of the gospel
infused kind of slower, still kind of the same sort
of cadence of the Jim Weatherly version, but sort of
(06:28):
moving it more into the R and B sphere. And
then we get this kind of really upbeat version as
opposed to the almost kind of sadder tone that the
previous two versions had. So like last Night and the
Pips end up kind of taking it to this kind
of kind of more a more of a step in
the in the beat in everything that they end up
infusing a song.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
With absolutely and so much to that is Gladys Knight's voice.
Because the song is so famous sometimes it overshadows what
they did before. Their sixties motown runs so legendary just
in terms of like the power of Gladys's voice and
that when she was very young and hits like every
beat of my Heart, she's got almost a girlish tone
in her voice. But her really legendary motown recordings from
(07:08):
like later in the sixties and early seventies are she's
absolutely an adult in a way that it's really kind
of breathtaking. And you listen to like some for huge
motown songs from before Midnight Train, like If I Were
Your Woman, which is just like a song that completely
shuts down everything else that happened to you that day
and you're just alone with that. It's such a terrifying
(07:29):
story in this song, and it's all just there in
her voice and in the way that the Pips in
Colin responds with her, and that's something that they were
so amazing at. Yet they were considered washed up at
the time that they did this song. They just weren't
on motown anymore. They had been through all these highs
and lows together and now they were on the skids.
They were starting over on Buddha Records, not Buddha as
(07:50):
inspelled correctly, like the Buddha Buddha spelled wrong because it's
a bubblegum label. It's not a taken seriously kind of label.
It's seventy these bubblegum hits and brilliant ones. Nobody's knocking
the legacy of you know, nineteen ten Fruit Gum Company
and the other big hits of Buddha Records. But this
is a group that we're famous on motown. They're not
(08:12):
wanting on moten anymore. They're washed up. They're starting over,
and that's so perfect for them, perfect for their voices.
And that's there right in the beginning of the song
and the way that she sings one of the great
opening lines. And all the pop music la proved too
much for the man.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, I mean also, like the Pips are I feel
like very still underrated as just kind of this like
vocal unit that is, like you mentioned the cal and
response and kind of the way that they are singing
with Gladys and kind of against Gladys and kind of
adding in so much to the song. I mean, the
song is nothing without that combination of Gladys with the Pips.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's a totally different thing.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
If it's like, and you hear this in both the
I mean, the Jim Weatherley and Cucy Houston versions are
amazing in their own right. But the reason why this
song took off the way it did is because that
combination of kind of Gladys telling the story about a
man who's kind of failing at his superstar career and
the Pip's kind of adding in this kind of Greek
chorus to it. And you know, it's such a perfect combination.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Honestly, I can't. It's unlike anything else in pop music
that they're telling the story together. And that's why it's funny.
Like you said, to listen to the earlier versions by
Jim Weatherley and Sissy Houston, which are so great, but
they're a lead singer telling a story. Yeah, and this
is Gladys Knight telling her story. The Pips are telling
the story along with her. They're rooting for her, they're
(09:35):
speaking to the audience, they're like, yeah, she does this
a lot, you know, like which she says, you know,
I'm got to be with him, and they're like, I
know you will. Yeah, And you can hear all those
times they've been through in the way that the Pips
are there telling the story, sometimes interrupting her, sometimes adding glasses,
you know, and she's like, yeah, he kept dreaming that
he was going to be a star. They're like a superstar,
(09:56):
but he didn't get fun.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I always love that line because it just sounds like
take it just a little like a little extra job
at him. It's like, if I were him, I'd be
really upset if I heard the pipsing it that way.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes, absolutely. And sometimes they're singing to her. Sometimes they're
singing to the audience, you know, when she's like, I'd
rather live in his world than live without him in mind,
and you know, they turn to the audience and they're
in third person out they're like, her world is his world,
his and hers alone, and this colm response between them.
It's not like any other song, and it goes all
the way through the song. Yeah, and it's amazing. You know,
(10:27):
you decide early in your life listening to the car
radio when you sing along with this song are you
gladys or are you a pip? And it is a
lifelong commitment yea, to be one of them.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean the way that they change the tone
of the song and the way that they tell the
story versus like this kind of a story that could
come off very sad. It's there is so much of that,
like that kind of excitement about taking the midnight train
to Georgia. They're kind of making such a case for
this being a great decision for her to really like
kind of follow follow him to Georgia and kind of
go there and like take this big risk. I mean
(11:00):
just again, like in that combination of how Gladys sings
it and kind of all this like life force that
she puts into it, and kind of the determination towards
the end like my man his girl, Like the way
she's like singing that part. I mean, there's so much
of that in throughout the song, and the Pips kind
of being like, you know, we can't argue that with that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, they're not trying to change her mind. Something I
love about this song. I mean, you listen to this
song your whole life. Yeah, year after year, decade after decade,
and it's amazing how how the story keeps deepening, how
so much there's more. I mean, she's not asking this
guy if he wants her to come along on the
midnight train to Georgia with him. Yeah, we don't even
know if he knows that she's going to be on
(11:39):
that train. You know. She's like, yeah, he came to
La from Georgia and didn't work out from here, he
bombed out. He's going back home. Yeah, he's not going
back home in triumphant circumstances. He's taking the midnight train.
He's going home and defeat and me, I'm going home
with him. And Georgia is not her place, you know,
like she doesn't know anybody there. It's very different for
(12:01):
her to be taking that train. And it's like the
Book of Ruth or something, you know, like and it's
funny how little of his voice or any is in
the song. We don't know if he needs her to
come back with him. I didn't even know if he
wants her to come back with him. Maybe she's just
like a girl that he met in La and he's like, yeah,
I'm going home, going to start over, you know, like
marry my high school sweetheart. You know, the road not
(12:22):
taken looks real good. Now She's like nope. You know
where he goes I go and his world is my world.
Unbelievable determination, Like you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Said, suddenly you're on a really depressing train back to
Georgia at midnight and there's none of them in glass
night and the Pips just waiting for you on the train.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yes, and she's going to be with him, and just
that determination when she's like, I'm going to be with
him and the Pips say, I know you will. It's
really kind of beautiful that they are absolutely cheering her
on and at the end when she's like on the
train platform and like is she really going to do it?
Is she going to go through with it? And you know,
and the Pips are, you know, saying like you can
do this. You got this really kind of beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And so much of the construction of the song and
the way that Gladys and the Pips are kind of
having that dialogue with each other and alongside each other
reminds me so much of like a lot of like
Alan Mankin's music for Disney, you know, reminds me of
just like in Hercules, you know, like the songs with
the Muses in there, and kind of the even like
Low Mermaid and all those kind of early nineties Disney
(13:21):
movies that you know, created these massive hits for Disney
and the kind of that new revival for Disney. So
much of them seemed owe a lot to Last Night
the Pips, and in particular a song like Midnight Training
to Georgia and that kind of conversation that these like
secondary kind of scening characters can have and kind of
make such a big part of these songs.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You are absolutely blowing. That is so true.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I feel like it did reminds me so much of
the Muses, and like you know, in Hercules particularly, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Beautiful when you know that the family, the family connection.
Gladys is often told the story she's very embarrassed. She's
a very shy person. She's very shy about improvising on mic.
The ad libbing is very difficult for her. She talked
about when she was recording this that her brother was
there in the studio right standing right next to her
mic whispering into her ear because she was too shy
to sing all those his world, my world, as long
(14:13):
as he's alone, and she was really shy about doing it,
and she needed him to be standing there and whispering
into her ear what the next line was, and just
really kind of amazing that that's how she recorded it,
was her brother's standing right next to her for moral support,
whispering the lines into her ear, and you can hear
so much of that in the final version of the song.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh yeah, definitely. The ad libs at the end are
the best part for me.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Those ad libs are like the just the cherry on
top of a great popcake.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah. Yeah, It's like half the song and it's just
unbelievably dramatic, and the whole song is building up to that,
and you still you still want it to go on.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Are you a gladys or a pip?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I'm always a bit you know. I had three sisters,
so like, you know, they were glad as sing I
was pipping. I was like and that was the way
it was. And there's something it's such a long and
fantastic R and B tradition that you know, the female
singer and the male backup singers who are kind of
telling the story with her but also kind of you know,
rooting for her, cheering her on. I always think of
(15:17):
one of the one of the great examples, Aliyah, Are
you that somebody where she's like telling us her in
Timbaland's there and he's like, it's a Leah's song. Timb
Bland is like you got this, you could do this,
don't be scared like you are that somebody, and he's like,
you know, beb a girl, you know, like and that
kind of commonresponse that's absolutely like another perfect example.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It is, Yeah, yeah, I wonder how much of that, like,
how much of those kind of moments in pop because
I made me kind of think of like the ODB
version of like Fantasy right where he's kind of like
totally like, I wonder how much of that is owed
to the very specific and particular type of relationship the
Pips and Gladys have in their music and in their discography.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You know, you think about something like another great exam
that I Love is another one of the greatest songs
of the twenty first century family affair Mary J. Blige,
and just the way that Drey's presence in the song
is an enabler and that sort of like beautiful column
response in Midnight Training to Georgia is so specific to
this song. Though, It's funny that the other song I
(16:19):
really think of is having A similar kind of approach
and similar kind of emotional impact is that the Beatles
song Help, Yeah, and it's well because you know, John
Lennon is telling that story and it's very personal, you know,
like I used to think I knew what I was
doing in life. I had no idea. I'm really scared.
I have no idea what's coming next. And it's amazing
when you listen to it, and the way it'd be
(16:39):
very differentive or John just singing the song, but he's
telling the story with Paul and George and they're singing
along with him in very much a Gladys and Pips
kind of way. Yeah, And they're telling the story along
with him, they're cheering him on, they're not entering the
story themselves. And that is a kind of similar impact
for me in terms of listening to those songs over
the years. I think of how different Help would be
if it were just John singing the song yeah, and
(17:01):
how different Midnight Train would be if it were just
Gladys even with her amazing powerful one time in human
history voice, but Gladys Knight has Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I guess Hey, I feel like now I'm thinking of
like the lyrics of Help and like how that song
always sounds so like like uplifting, you know, like yeah,
kind of like me, like here's me and my buddy.
Isn't like they're helping me, Like like when you think
of it like stripped down, and the same way with
Midnight Train to Georgia, Like when you strip it down
and it's like the lyrics are actually like kind of sad,
and like the tone totally shifts with that style of
storytelling and like with kind of just like that just
(17:31):
a little like tweak to how you it's actually delivered
and how it's kind of like put in the context
of all the vocalists together, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Really kind of beautiful their way almost like the background
singers are sort of like the angel on the shoulder saying,
you know, like don't worry dot where you could do this.
I hear a lot of Midnight Training to Georgia in
Outcasts and especially in Andred three thousand, but that beautiful
moment in international plays Anthem and the UGK song, I
think is a quintessential Midnight Train to Georgia. Yeah moment.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For me, it is making me think of Roses by Outcasts,
which is one of my maybe maybe my number one
Outcast song actually, but yeah, that that sort of Andre
being like his own but being both Gladys and the
Pips on his part of the song totally. Like even
the way he sings like Caroline, you know, like it's
just kind of like adding that call and response for himself.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Totally. We all need to be our own pip. I mean,
like it's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, I mean even think just like a lot of
Georgia born Atlanta, specifically rap artists who have come out
in the last like two decades, I feel like there
is so much of that, like you know, like the Migos,
you know, like it's just like that col and response
element of it and kind of the family band and
sort of that that interaction together feels like it owes
so much to Last Night and the Pips, And they
(18:44):
probably do pull directly from.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Glass and the Pips.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
They are such like fans of that era of music
and such fans of kind of classic motown music.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So I wouldn't I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Doubt that that's like a big part of what's inspire
them totally.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I think I think of a lot of Wu Tang
songs have a lot of connection to Midnight Training to Georgia,
like again, like just because of that, like that sense
of like people have known each other and been through
stuff together. Specifically the ghost Face song All That All
That I Got Is You Yeah from Iron Man, one
of the greatest songs ever and Mary J. Blige in
that song and the way that they're telling that story
together and it's a very different kind of story. It's
(19:21):
very sad childhood story, but the way that the different
voices in the song are telling the story together very
much part of that tradition for sure, Georgia connection. But
the Indigo Girls have a fantastic version of mind Night
Training to Georgia, And because they're folk duo, it's you know,
one voice is Gladys and one voice is the Pips,
(19:42):
and it's the only version of the song I know
like that where and it's just like the two voices
acoustic guitars and they strip it down and it's funny
and it's a live it's something they did live for
a while. And the live version is so interesting because
when they do it at the beginning, you can hear
the audience laugh a little bit and they think, like, oh,
this is gonna be funny. This is like a beloved
seventies old and they're doing like sort of a you know,
(20:03):
quasi camp version of it. Yeah, and it's funny that
you hear that reaction at first, that that's what people expect,
and as they're telling the story together, you can hear
how it transforms them, Like no, it like the singers
know like what kind of story this is, and they
know it's a story that has to be told together
and that they deal with just those two voices. It's
unlike any other version of the song that I know,
But it's just it's so moving and so powerful and
(20:23):
so clever.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
The furthest I could I could think of was a
great thirty rock scene. Where do you tell there's some
where Kenneth is going back to Georgia and he the
cast starts singing Midnight Train, which is fun. It's a
good time last night's in the episode. You know, it's cute,
it's storing thirty rock.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
After the break, we will be joined by Ed Stacium,
who was the engineer and mixer on Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We are here with the production legend and stays you,
Oh yeah, that's you man.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Thanks Rob I want to know how.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I know this was very early in your career, and
I'm curious how you connected with Glass Night and the
Pips and got attached to this record.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Tony Caamello, who was the producer of Midnight Train Camello
had a partner, Tony bon Jovi, the Great Tony bon Jovi.
So when I first got there, Tony was Camello's engineer.
Tony was tight with Neil Bogart at Buddha Records. Tony,
they had finished up their contract. They didn't want to
sign back with Motown. They just had a big hit
(21:33):
with neither one of us. And you know, of course
earlier had heard through the grapevine. So Neil, Neil Bogart
loved Tony and I went into Neil's office with him
several times at the Buddha offices and he would always
like be pouring Kanyac and heaven knows what else happened,
and he wanted to he said, He called up Tony.
He says, Tony, I want you to work on some
(21:55):
of these Gladyson Night tracks. Boom, there we go. So
we cut some track. We cut it twice before we
ended up the final take. So it's Neil Bogart, loving
Tony's work, thought Tony had a vibe and which he did.
He was a great producer, a musical genius.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Did Gladys Knight have the song Midnight Train when she
came in.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I think the song came through Neil and Tony. You know,
I'm not privy to some of the dealings that went
on with the record company. I do know some things.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Anyway, there was a.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Publisher, I don't know who it was, pushing the song,
and Sissy Houston, Whitney's mom, who used to come down
and sing backing vocals on some of the I think
she sang on those Cecil Home Sulful Sounds records Sissy did.
She was a studio backup singer in New York at
(22:48):
that time, so she had a record deal and her
and Sissy and her manager wanted to change the lyric
from Midnight Playing to Houston to Midnight Trained to Georgia,
which was a great idea. So I saw the sheet
news that that Tony had still had Midnight Playing Houston
written on it. But by the time we got the
(23:11):
demos and somebody had, you know, told Gladys that they
should do the song. It was already changed to Midnight
Train to Georgia, changed by Sissy Houston. That's who requested
that they changed the lyric.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So Gladys Knight is the song. How did the session happen?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Right? We three sessions. I don't have a copy of
the very first one, but I have a copy of
the second one that would you like to hear a
little bit of it? And this is take one.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Lao, you must follow the man. So he's leaving the
life he's come to know, he said, he's going back
(24:19):
to part Yeah, who what's left off his world?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So as you can hear, it's a much slower version.
We don't there's no there's no strings on it yet.
Tony would have put strings and horns on it. But
this is interesting. A couple of spots here she sings
midnight Train to Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Check it out on that midnight train to it better?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Pretty cool, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Totally different thought.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, oh yeah yeah. And here's a cool little there's
a scratch trap that Tony did which is emulating backing vocals.
We'll play that with Gladys.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
That's for fun.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
It's pretty cool, you know, yes, like train Jolter.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
And you'll be gone, he's going back to bun Long
go oh.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Some time.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yes with him, I'm going with train John Train your.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He said, that was the second session.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
That you worked with.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, there was one before this. I don't have the
y track. So we sent this to glad As I
recall sent a multi track to Gladys and then she
put a vocal on it. She says, I don't like this.
I don't like this version. It's too slow, and I
believe that. Bubba also said, we need something that's happening.
We need something that's more in the al green kind
(26:15):
of vibe, you know, down home southern, you know, a
little dirty. So that's how they suggested it. So Tony
was actually at this time he was he's getting a
little nervous because you know, he really wanted to get
this record done. We had to get it out there,
and so Gladys. He talked to Gladys and she's like,
(26:36):
we gotta get we got to make something better. We
gotta have an al green feel. Okay, you can kind
of relate to the final version and how that is.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What was it like recording Gladys's vocal, But the final session,
Gladys's vocal is so great.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Well one to Detroit. You can hear the ideas that
Tony had there for some backing vocals, right, Gladys went
out and did a real quick vocal when I didn't
you know, I wou'd never met. I had never been
in that studio before. It was my first airplane flight,
never been in that studio before. Here I go checked
the input level. Okay, I want to sing now, go
go go saying. Glass did a quick reference vocal. I
was able to twitter it a little bit. And then
(27:13):
the Pips went out and did their backing vocals, and
they pretty much did those backing vocals one line at
a time, and Tony was guiding them through that. Tony
and Bubba came up with a few, but like Tony
Camello came up with that a super.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Bistar buddy who didn't get FA, which is you.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Know, classic and the Boo boo. I think Tony came
up with that as well. I believe you know either
not drained to Georgia Midnight Drain the Georgia Boo boo.
So we did that each line pretty much a line
at a time with Glass's guide vocal. We double tracked
each one. We would do the line like a super
(27:48):
bistar buddy didn't get far, and then we would double
that line and then went on to the next line.
Then we would get it, and they would do it
several times until I really hit it on. Tony wanted
it to be very precise and you know, tight, and
those backing vocals are tight, and they're double tracked. So
we do each like I said, each line at the time,
and then we finished the backing vocals and it was Gladys'
(28:10):
turn to Okay, I want to do a real vocal.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Now here I go.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
And this is funny. Gladys whould eat a lemon before
you go into record. She always had a lemono whether
she cut it and put in her mouth and eat
it like an orange. And she went out there says
I'm ready to do.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
A vocal now.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yes. She did the final vocal, one take, what's what?
One take all the way through, and there was one
line in the fade on the somewhere I got to go,
I got to go, Hey, one of those somewhere I don't.
And I listened to it in solo because I have
the multi track of that as well. I could not
figure which one it was that we went to Bell
(28:48):
Sound in New York and just punched in one line,
but the whole body of the song is a one
take vocal. It's amazing. What a singer. There's a thrill,
there's a real thrill to work with them. Yeah, I
wanted to play a little bit of the Pips on
in solo because it sounds so good.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And yeah, so we can hear a little bit about
a little bit of the isolated vocals from the Pips.
I know you want to play for us.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Last bit night Shame George that same.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It's just great.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, going back to.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Fine whenever he takes that ride, I guess it's gonna
be right by his side.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I know you will really tight, really really tight and night.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Trash George Living whoa.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Whold is his His and hers alone?
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Dream man a superstar.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
But it didn't get far. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Wow, I wasn't incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, that sounds amazing. Thank you so much for all
this music that you've made, especially the one we're talking
about today, Midnight Train to Georgia, a classic song.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
It was my pleasure great to see both of you.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for listening to
Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought
to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted
by me, Rob Sheffield.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
And Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,
and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Thanks for listening, Thanks for watching.
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