August 21, 2024 • 31 mins
It took two years for Nicki Minaj to take over the world. Following her 2009 mixtape Beam Me Up Scotty, she caught the attention of Lil Wayne who signed her. Minaj quickly became ubiquitous, taking over the charts and winning over rap heavyweights and pop divas with her next level guest verses. It was Nicki’s debut album Pink Friday and single “Super Bass” that made her a force to be reckoned with across the board. Her pop pivot was a huge risk, especially as she pulled double duty singing and rapping on the hit. But it paid off: the song was her first Top 10 single and became the highest charting song by a female rapper since Missy Elliott’s “Work It.” Joining us to discuss the song’s impact and the ups and downs of Minaj’s legacy is Rolling Stone staff writer Mankaprr Conteh.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Britney Spanos and I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to
shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover
what makes them so great. This week, we're diving into
an absolute classic, super Bass by Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
The song I've had a lot of fun listening to
Henripe like all week prior to this.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It places at.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Number four twenty six on the list, and it was
released in twenty eleven on as a bonus track, originally
on the UK edition of Pink Friday, which was Nicki's
debut album and then ended up becoming her first really,
really really massive hit as the lead artist.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, this was breakthrough hit until this. Who is known
to really to the general public mostly for features, but
this was the song that told everybody who the f
she is. This is where most people heard her for
the first time, and it shows are off in peak
form two. So it's a perfect introd.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I mean, Nicki's rise the few years leaning up
to that was just like so incredible and so amazing.
I mean, she had released a bunch of mixtapes. She
released a trio of mixtapes that got a lot of
people's attention, and we're sort of just like really showing
off what made her so unique at that time, which
is like she is one a really excellent rapper. She
is just like a formidable rapper, but also just like
(01:24):
so funny and so like she has like these great characters.
She has like these like great one liners, like you know,
she kind of was introducing her own cinematic universe almost
of like like nicky voices and characters and lines like
you know, it's like like there's always like that joke
about like her sons.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Like it's just like you know, how many sons does
she have? And like it's like kind.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Of like those types of things like she was introducing
us with the trio of of mixtapes, ended up getting
Low Wayne's attention after beating me up Scottie, and that
ended up getting her signed to Lowayne's label. I mean
that kind of sets the tone for what will happen
over the next like two years, but I mean still ongoing,
but especially those kind of like.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That first four years of Nicki's career was just kind
of like hit after hit.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Of constant Nicki in the Zeigeist moments.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And just Nikki after Niki never shy about showing off
her different persona. Remember when she was at the VMA's
and it was this clip where it was all Roman
all the way, and it was like, this is what
she's doing with this spotlight moment is just concentrating on
one character.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, and even just like thinking about how much how
many hits were packed into this time and even like
looking back on it, it feels like decades and decades
upon of like iconic verses and iconic songs and one
liners from her. But I mean like a lot of
these are just like released like week after week, like
a period of time where she was just like churning
(02:52):
out some of the most memorable moments in pop and
rap history. And I mean even just like going back,
like the first two chart hit she had were February
twenty ten, which ended up being the same year that
she would later release Pink Friday and its original incarnation
was a Knockout with Lil Wayne and Up Out My
Face remix with Mariah Carey were released like in the
(03:13):
same couple of weeks. In February twenty head, which is
just like kind of insane to think, Like looking at that,
I was just like, I cannot believe that is sort
of that was the back to back of that time
of like those two songs, which were sort of just
like began the snowball effect of like constant Nikki hit.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Gives an idea of her range, right.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You're right, yeah, I mean she was someone who was
a go to for a lot of people still is
like in terms of no matter what genre, no matter
like what style you or even i mean even like
Knockout by a Lil Wayne was not typical Lil Wayne track,
but even just kind of like she was that person
that if you needed a really great verse, whether you're
a pop star or like a rock band or like
(03:52):
an EDM artist, whatever, Like, she was someone that you
can go to and she would really mesh very well
with like whatever salad you were doing and bring something
completely different to it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, very dangerous as a feature, very dangerous to have
her on your song just because she's likely to dust you.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I mean even you know. That was February twenty ten,
when she had sort of this debut on the charts
for the very first time by October twenty ten. Was
that moment where she had this like really kind of
incredible breakout moment where she was featured on Monster by
Kanye West and she is on this song with Kanye,
with jay Z, with Rick Ross with bony Ver, which
(04:29):
again just sort of very twenty ten moment that that was.
But I mean for Nicki to be in twenty ten
on a track with Kanye and jay Z and Rick
Ross and to completely steal the show on that song
was like a mind blowing moment. I think for anyone,
any lover of rap music at that time. To have
Nicki Minaj be the person who was at that time
(04:50):
still a very very very new artist, still just kind
of gain her bearings on the charts, gain her bearings
in this world was like pretty insane.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Like that was.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I mean, it's like one of the most talked about
verses I think in history totally.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's it's a verse that introduced her and for Kanye
to put her on that song, Like you said, there's
a murderers rove talent on that song, a very confident
song in so many ways, but also just having all
those people peaking on your own record. But as you said,
the Nicki verse is one of the most famous verses
of all time, and she really does steal the show
(05:25):
on a song that is where everybody is shining, everybody
is doing an astounding job. It's a great track, but
Nicky's presence, she just looms all over it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's crazy because I feel like I've, you know, much
like many people who love this song and love Nikki,
that is a verse that I'm like, I constantly just
I like, sometimes it's like a skip ahead because I
really really need to get to the Nicki verse, because
sometimes you just have like a you just like really
need to listen to it. And it's always funny, where
like if I've done that multiple times in a row
and I go back and like, oh, yeah, like the
rest of the song is really good. This is like
(05:57):
actually a really really great song, and then you get
to nick and you're like like, yes, but this is
this is the best part of the song.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, it is the best part of the song. You're
totally right, yeah. But for her to go from this
to the popness of super bass opposite sides of her,
and for those to come out roughly the same time,
the same fall and showing off opposite sides of what
she was doing.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think that was what surprised so
many people, especially lovers of her mixtapes and loved, you know,
already what she was doing prior to gain sign, prior
to already starting to make moves on the charts. Like,
I think people were really shocked at how much of
a pop girl Nicki was, how much of a pop
girl she wanted to be, and especially her singing and
kind of that desire to kind of create these like
(06:39):
bubblegum pop songs mixed with sort of the hardness of
her verses and kind of find ways to blend that.
I think people were genuinely very shocked at what Pink
Friday ended up sounding like, you know, Pink Friday as
like sort of like the imagery of it, the way
that she really like leaned into this kind of beginnings
of that like EDM moment in pop music that we
(06:59):
would like really really kind of hear even more in
coming years, but was very much influenced by Lady Gaga
and sort of like early Katy Perry and Kesha and
kind of what was going on with all of those artists.
I think a lot of people were very shocked at
like the fact that she was able to very seamlessly
blend what was happening in in pop with how much
of like an incredible.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
MC she was.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, such an era in pop. Yeah, Brittany era.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, this is the very This is a very defining
era for me personally. But this album in particular, and
all of the songs that kind of came from Pink
Friday and then her sophomore album, Pink Friday Roman Reloaded
like are just like some of the best nikky songs
and best songs of that era.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Pink Friday was totally different from what anybody was expecting.
It's funny because that was a very long awaited album
that was in an album that people had been waiting for.
She had been building her rep and it's rare for
an artist making a debut album to already be so
famous and so itcclaimed, and so people were really waiting
for Pink Friday and it turned out to be very different.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Do you have a favorite Pink Friday song.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's got to be super bas Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I obviously love super Bass, but also a Moment for Life.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I love Moment for.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Great one with Drake and I think fly is on
this this Pink Friday I always get like the Pink
Friday end up becoming such a franchise for us.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Of course, there's Pink Friday, then.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
There was the Deluxe I mean this is also like
one of the more messy eras or beginning of a
very messy era in the industry where it was kind
of like you have an album, then there's like the
deluxe version of the album, and like the like bonus version,
and then it's like kind of like, okay, which one,
which one are we.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Doing right now?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
But there was Pink Friday, then Pink Friday kind of
the deluxe editions with super Bass, which ended up becoming
one of the biggest hits from that. Then Pink Friday
Roman reloaded, then of course Pink Friday two. More recently
so the Pink Friday franchise has has had a lot
of bangers from it.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It will never stop, Will Never Stop. And for Pink
Friday to concentrate so much on her pop side and
people are really waiting for a more hardcore sort of approach,
and that was the time that Monster came out and
for her to be so hardcore on that song and
then so many melodies. There was some disappointment at the
(09:10):
time with the album, but it was just because it
was so different from people I've been expecting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And she really ended up leaning even more into it
for you know, again with Pink Friday Into Pink Friday
Roman Reloaded, which came out in twenty twelve, like that
sort of back to back of those two albums were
leaning so so heavily into this, like edm sound, I
mean all she like she really kind of like really
went for it with all those because there was so
(09:35):
much of that success with songs like super Bass and
you know, Moment for Life and then later ended up
being like Pound the Alarm, Starships, like all those songs
did so well and you know, ended up becoming like
a really great defining era for Nicki. But she really
leaned very, very heavily into it, which I admire that
she did, even though it was that disappointment to kind
(09:56):
of like the kind of rapheads who were like, this
is not the Nikki the mixtape, Nikki, this is not
the one that we like thought was going to end
up like sort of being the queen of rap.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But she ended up doing it very seamlessly.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
She built up such a rep with the mixtapes, and
the mixtapes really created this hardcore sort of legend for her.
I mean, she really was already a legend when Pink
Friday came out, and just the Pink Friday was so
different from the mixtapes, the idea that Lil Wayne was
involved tangentially just historically in the creation of her reputation
(10:29):
and her early.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Rep and I think like a lot of what she
was really good at was like she had sort of
the albums that she was releasing at the time were
so pop leaning and so kind of her really wanting
to compete with the big pop stars of that era
again like the Gagas and the Katies of that of
that time. But you know, then she would churn out
these incredible featured versus. I mean, this is like such
(10:53):
a big part of that Nikki lore and that Nikki
appeal was like she has had such a great history
of working with so many artists because she would work
with like so many of these like excellent rappers like
put out like the hardest verse on the entire record
and the like, and then be like and here's starships.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Totally. I love those mixtapes, those early mixtapes. Yeah, and
she was so raw, often very filthy, Yeah, and so innovative,
like you said, in an amazing rapper from the get
go ye and the personality that she built, I mean,
going back to them, there's still a lot of that,
you know, that Barbie obsession, that Parajiku obsession.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, And I mean super Bass of course has its
own song that ended up being released officially as a
single in April twenty eleven, and it was a sleeperhead.
It ended up taking a few months to actually really
really rise on the charts and ended up hitting number
three on the Billboard Hot one hundred, was her highest
ranking song as a lead artist at the time. And
I mean, I think that one is such a great
(11:52):
example of that balance of like the verses are incredible,
Like it's really peak kind of Nikki rapping. She's putting
on like the British voice, the like Roman kind of
tease of Roman in the in Superbass, but also has
like her showing off or singing. She's singing a bit
with Esther Dean who co wrote the song, and really
kind of showcasing that really delicate balance that she she
(12:13):
was toying with at times, very indelicately like in terms
of how she'd approach it, but you know that really
great sort of nicky dual dynamic of like hears like
her singing pop girl putting an incredible hook, like one
of the catchiest hooks of a time, known for catchy
hook with her showcasing that she is a remarkable rapper
(12:33):
with an incredible and very unique flow that would end
up being imitated for many years. To come still and
find that balance on the song.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The balance is amazing. It's really a perfect sort of
sizzle reel for everything that she could do and everything
that she wanted to do, very different from what she'd
done earlier in her rapper career when she was just
building up her rep on the mixtapes. This one shows
the different sort of range that she does. I love
when she uses the thing accent.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
The English accent on that song is one of my
favorite moments. She's really got a thing for American guys.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and you know, I believe I believe she's British.
You know, you can't tell me differently, but yeah, I
mean she even just like the way the song starts
out there is that sort of like very sort of dreamy,
sparkly like bubble gummy, kind of like synth little flare
that starts it off, and then she kind of comes
in like much harder than you anticipate on the song,
(13:27):
Like she kind of comes in, she's like this one's
for the boys with the booming system like that, a
little bit more of that edge into it on top
of this like very delicate, like sweet and.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Kind of like airy type of little riff that happens there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, the riff, like and it leads to that chorus,
which is just such an iconic course just in terms
of the poppiness of it and just the way it
repeats the sort of the pop side of Pink Friday. Yeah,
yet with such hardcore rapping in the middle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I guess like in the years since Pink Print, Nikki
has had like a pretty like divisive maybe we'll use
that word, career and sort of public image over the years.
I'm curious kind of like what that means for the
feature of Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
As you said, you're a barb and for her to
sort of take the turn that she took in many ways,
the Pink Print is sort of the peak when she
was you know, but tormented genius and what she's done
the last four years has pissed a lot of people off.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean even starting with Queen, like you know
that release was it just had like a lot of
like weird setbacks. And I mean, granted, this was like
a kind of a weird time in music releasing where
I remember like Beyonce and Lemonade like going on title
with a kind of botched rollout of that album in
a really weird way, and it was just like a
weird time for digital releases where I think a lot
(14:41):
of industries and streaming services were still getting their bearings
with how to do that that it was just like
that rollout was a little bit weird. She's been in
a lot of feuds with other specifically female rappers that
I think has left a really bad taste in people's mouths,
And that's that for me, has kind of been sort
of a weird thing to sort of developed because she
is so iconic and I do very much see her
(15:05):
as the Queen of rap, but it sucks to see
her kind of be in constant fights with younger with
younger women who have all said at different times that
they are a big fan of her you know, of course,
a lot of the stuff with her husband and her
brother and being convicted predators really also sucks. Like it's
just you know, her relation to them and are kind
(15:26):
of caping for a lot of men like them, and
then again entering into feuds with young women who have
looked up to her and oh a lot to her.
It's made my relationship with her music very complicated over
the years. But yeah, I don't know, I think it's
you know, hasn't slowed down. A lot of a really
big fandom, a lot of you know, her tour's been
selling out, She's had a really really massive run with
(15:48):
her Pink Friday to tour and kind of has announced
even more dates and all that. So of course it's
still Nicki Minaogency's still you know, one of the best
selling artists of all time. But it is sort of
a confusing place to be actually, because it's like kind
of stuff that people usually do when they're in their
like seventies, you know, like artists they are kind of
like really do not care anymore, and they're kind of like, well, like,
you know, this new music sucks and led to a
(16:10):
lot of like kind of weird relationships for her in
the industry and kind of really confusing, almost kind of
seemingly like now like isolated place in the music industry
that Nikki is where that wasn't the case for a really.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Long time, well really in a world of her own, yeah,
I mean musically and in every other way.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, So I'm wondering what that will mean for the future,
because I mean I think a lot about the time
that she sort of came up as an artist, I mean,
this was every genre music sucks for women, but rap
has especially been really really hard for a lot of
women to break through in and to kind of have
a lot of success. And even with super Bass that
was like the highest charting single for a female rapper
(16:46):
since work It at that time, Wow, and Pink Friday
even becoming like the second and most successful album by
a female rapper since Miseducation. Like, you know, there was
a lot of barriers for every woman in rap to
kind of break through in, and so you know, it's
been really confusing to kind of see that sort of
her relationships with other women in the genre sort of
as it developed over the course of the last decade.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But musically, like she's still kind of the queen of
Wrapped Me.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And after the break we have Manka per Conte to
talk about super Bass. We are joined by Rolling Stone
staff writer makaper Conte. Mochapr. Thank you so much for
joining us today.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Thank thanks guys again.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I'm around two, super happy.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
To be this time in person.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I know the stars aligned.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, thank you. Well.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I wanted to hear about sort of the first time
you encounter I'm sure it was with the same way
that everyone else encountered Nicki Minaj, but sort of your
kind of experience kind of watching those like early years
of her really blowing up leading up to super Bass.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, I mean, my first real, real memory of Nicki
Minaj is riding the bus with who is now my
best friend and has been my best friend for eighteen years,
and we would blast eighty big Piggy and I get
crazy and we would wrap it and because like on
the bus, you would just kind of trade music. I
didn't even imagine what we were listening to music on iPods,
(18:07):
like because I wouldn't have had a physical mixtape, so
probably on like our iPods. She was just so weird,
like the whole spiel. I win you lose on ity
bity piggy like ben that from top to bottom. And
I think it was just like it was really exciting
and of course, like I didn't grow up in an
era where there were women rappers that were popular at all,
(18:28):
and so to really watch her from the ground up
build and like really change the course of like music
has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, I mean there was something kind of surreal happening
in those years where it was like, especially for young
women who were listening to her, like this was just
like someone who was like you knew all the lyrics,
you were learning it, but also like boys listened to
her too, like there was like a lot with that,
you know. Yeah, it was just like this like kind
of big phenomenon happening in real time as she was
blowing up as it was happening.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
And I think one of the things too, when I
think I haven't actually thought about like men's relationship with
Nicki Minas, it's a really interesting point because I was
listening to I Get Crazy on the way here and
hearing Wayne and how much synergy they had in her
being able to come up under him at the time,
where like Wayne was of course like the hottest he
had ever been around that time. I wonder like how
(19:16):
much that had to do with like how universal like
she became, because eventually she was on every song. She
was like the tea pain of music.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Eventually.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Even just like that psychotomy too, of like her as
a rapper and her as someone who could be like
a really great pop star, which is what super Bass
sort of helped solidify in so many ways. I mean,
tell me about kind of watching that dichotomy that she
was really playing with at that time and able to
like really make such an important part of who she
was as a as a star. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I remember the reactions around super Bass being really mixed,
right because it's like, this is this hardcore rapper, This
is this girl from New York that Wayne just like
plucked right out of like her neighborhood. Like what is
she doing in this pink wig and this like little
dance and little shorts and like making such poppy music.
But it's like you can see such a through line
(20:05):
from that to like Megan and Sweetest Pie and Cardi
and Maroon five or like every other rapper that Maroon
five is like put on a song like she really
opened this really interesting door for like rap and particularly
rap by like women then to be pop music, yeah,
and to like play with like more traditional like Max
Martini like pop sounds.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And there was like a coexisting happening two of those
two sides of her, where like she was someone who
was very much letting fy yourself as like one of
the greatest rappers of all time and someone who can
like really you know, just like have like this incredible flow,
but also could make like one of the catchiest top
forty songs that you ever hear.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, it's really catchy. I feel like I can't quite
remember what my reaction was to super Rased. I don't
think that I loved it. I think I grew to
like it a lot more, and the way that like
you grow to like like party in the USA, it's
just like one of those songs that like we all
know and like can like bring us joy and we
kind of commune around. I think I probably thought it
was kind of silly when it came out, but even
when I listen to it now, is like she's really
really rapping on it, and it's it's fun just because
(21:04):
it's a pop song. She didn't like lose her edge,
and she seems to have always wanted to be a singer.
Like I was even listening to Pink Friday too. She
does so much singing on that it seems to be
like really important to her, So it seems like she
always wanted to blend those two things.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'm curious what you thought of Pink Friday in general
when it came out, because it was really disconcertingly pop.
The whole album was so pop, it was so different
from what people have been expecting and hoping for.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, I am one of those people that give Pink
Friday it's flowers because I know how important Nikki is
to hip hop culture and I know that and that
being her like mainstream breakthrough is really important. I don't
think it is that great of an album. I think
that Nikki does not actually make very good whole albums.
(21:51):
There is this phenomenon in rap across men and women
where some people can make incredible songs, but like an
album requires like movement and storytelling, in curation and like
making really hard choices, and I feel like it's mostly
in the beat selection on Pink Friday that I'm just like,
something about it is a little too cheesy. It's like
a little too corny. But again, like the Nikki that
(22:11):
I'm like most drawn to is like the I get crazy,
itty bitty piggy like even like FTCU on Pink Friday,
everybody would low uzzy, like I like when there is
a little more hardness to it or just like a
little less corn I don't know really how to explain,
and that might just be a personal difference, but I've
really really tried with Nikki albums, and I can always
(22:31):
find more than a handful of really great songs, but
the whole units, to me are never what I feel
like she could be capable of. Yeah, even yeah, I
don't have like a Nikki album that I like, love to.
My favorite Nicki album so far as Pink Friday too,
yea and even five songs.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Like when people were like, yeah, I don't know about this,
I was like, this is my favorite thing. But I
think it's like because she felt so with the times,
and I'm like, maybe the times that Pink Friday was
with was whatever was happening in pop music, which maybe
I wasn't that attuned to at that time.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It was very like kind of connected to that sort
of like Kesha type of like like early Gaga, early
Katy Perry kind.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Of sound that was happening.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I'm curious. I mean, I guess the contrast like some
of your favorite Nikki songs or verses, like I feel
like she's someone who, you know, I have favorite songs verse,
but her verses, especially on other people, you know, she's
a guest first or anything like remixes things like that
are just so striking. And of course the Monster verse
is like one of the most famous guest versus maybe
(23:35):
of all time, you know, and she has like and
that's one of like I don't even know how like
a hundred, like one of a hundred, like incredible, you know,
just really excellent kind of feature She's had, some curious
kind of what are some of your your favorite Nikki
I guess you could just call them moments moments.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I love her on My Beautiful, Dark Twisted Fantasy. The
intro like fairy tale intro. Her voice, her character was
just so perfect for that and the like lush like
production under it. It's one of the things that makes
that album I think so elevated, just like all the
thought put into it and like finding Nikki to like
get into that rhythm for it, and that's not even
like her really really rapping, you know, like she's just
(24:13):
like kind of playing around there. It's funny. I'm trying
to think about the older things, but it's like I'm
thinking about her on a Poundtown remix with Sexy Red,
I think, yeah, I think that. And that's the thing,
like when I feel like Niki is keeping up with
the times, particularly in like rap, but still keeping her
own unique bend to it is when I like, really
really like her.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So yeah, Big Sean Ass remix was like that was Yeah.
I think of that as like one of the moments
where she was trying to fit in with the song.
She wasn't trying to like totally watch the song, but like, yeah,
that that's a really good That might be my favorite
Nikki verse of all.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
That's a really really good one.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'm a big fan of for Trey Songs collaboration.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
I love that good one.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It could have been made for you.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I love her verse on Bottoms Up.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I love her verse.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I'm little freak by sure, especially that everybody loves Raymond line,
something that I would just like yeah constantly.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
That is a great one. That's an alzheimer.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yeah, I didn't used to, but now that I listened
to it, I like her verse on Motorsport a lot ye, Like,
I think that was a very tense moment. You know,
there was already tensions kind of brewing between she and
Cardi before, like everything really really blew up. They're trying
to collaborate. Cardi has an outstanding verse. I love her
calling herself the trap Selena. But now I'm thinking about
how Nikki like kind of like creeps on it, Like
(25:37):
how like kind of intimidating she is on it. Like
I really like her attitude in that verse a lot
more now, And I think that's that's that's like a
pretty iconic moment for her too, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I mean, I think the thing with Nikki and something
he brought up a couple of times is like the
characters and sort of that mix of like she is
very very funny, and she's very quick with her humor,
and she also is like she's she's a theater kid,
like very good at like embodying Roman and embodying like
all these like different kind of personas in the songs.
I mean, tell me about how that kind of set
(26:08):
Nikki apart and also like kind of evolved over the
course of her career.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things,
you know, like earlier when I was like she was
so weird, it was like one of the things that
made her weird, but like also then made her really interesting.
The Harajuku Barbie character was like really interesting to me,
her calling herself that, the like Monica Lewinsky references and
the Nikki Lewinsky character, and like that being about her
relationship to low Wayne. You know, like everything is means now,
(26:33):
and I think artists are really encouraged, Like you can
see like artists being encouraged like Victoria Mane does as
well to like take memes and make them a part
of their own body of work. And it's kind of
like she kind of did that with like things that
weren't like as well known, but you know, like when
Stefani previously did like the whole Harajuku thing, So it's
kind of pulling that in. There's a political reference there,
(26:54):
so I feel like it, maybe in a weird way,
is kind of like a precursor to that.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, I feel like right now, like the the Young
Money Crew, I mean, especially Nicki and Drake are in
such like a weird kind of moment I kind of
make or break I guess, kind of legacy moment, which
is kind of surreal to even think about, you know,
the like going just you know, fourteen fifteen years ago
and just kind of that sort of imperial phase that
lasted I think longer than I think anyone anticipated that
(27:18):
it would.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Nicki, of course, is still she has a massive tour.
I mean, she still has like the Barbs forever, but
it has been sort of like an interesting few years,
I guess in sort of her career and like kind
of her interaction with a lot of younger artists specifically,
I mean, tell me kind of where that stands for
you now and sort of how you view Nicki in
the present day, especially being a fan of Pink for
you too, and kind of her music still kind of
(27:40):
being having like really great moments and things like that,
Like where do you sort of stand in sort of
your Barb Barb fandom.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm really disappointed, Yeah, And I try to not
let that take away from the things that she's accomplished.
In my mind, like I'd never want to like diminish
her talent in my mind or her impact, but I
do think that, you know, it's like dark Knight, live
long enough to see yourself become the villain type thing,
(28:09):
you know, or die of be a hero, and maybe
those fourteen years were too long, but I think that's
kind of what we're seeing happen. And it's funny because
right like one of the first I think, like og
Nikki beefs was with Kim and it seemed like there
was this air that like this older woman was not
embracing Nicki, or Nikki felt that she wasn't embraced, or
there was just this like dissonance between generations that she's
(28:29):
like recreating with so many young women in RAP. And
it's like everybody who comes into the game cites her
as an influence, like even after they fall out Lotto
like other folks I spice, even like you know, she
says that they're cool, but like you know, techt leaked
where she was having a hard time processing that relationship,
like no one has ever took away I think from
(28:50):
what she's accomplished. But yeah, it is really disappointing to see.
And then I mean, I think some of like the
personal choices too in her like personal life have been
disappointing to see.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I read this really.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Interesting thing essay in the New York Times music magazine
many years ago. The writer was predicting that like these
this generation of stars would have to fall. But this
is like maybe like twenty like seventeen that I read
this something like that. I was in grad school, maybe
twenty eighteen, and I was like, this person was basically arguing,
like Beyonce's not and Drake and Kanye and Nikki, these
(29:21):
people can't all be who they are forever. And I
was like, well, who's gonna take their place?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And that.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Proved true for many years after. But I think that
person was right, and we're starting to see because like
there's so much music, there's so much access, there's so
many different types of women in rap, there's so many
different attitudes and styles and regions that are reflected in
particularly women's rap, that like, we don't have to hold
on to someone, particularly if they're like not nice.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah you know, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Something that came up for me and wrap within the
Missy episode and earlier in this episode is just you know,
how many limited spaces were allowed for women in rap
music and kind of this like Nikki kind of even
having to come up in a time where it was
like sort of just like you have to kind of
like claw for that space then to be like seen
as equivalent to you know, the Kanys and jay Z's
(30:09):
at the moment. You know, it's like, I guess like
part of me like feels for that in a way,
but also I feel like I stand.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Very much at the same place where you are, where
it's like, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, I think because you can understand the origins of
something or you can empathize what the feeling, doesn't necessarily
mean that you think it's right. Yeah, I think that's
where it is, right. You know, it's like, yes, you
did have to claw and climb your way to the top,
but it's not like that, and none of I think
the most pop and rap girls want to be that way.
Lotto and Flow, Milly and Meg are together all the time.
(30:37):
You know, sometimes it seems like some relationships here and
there have like dissipated, but it's not always breaking out
into these like catastrophic fights or like beefs all the time.
I think that there is an aura in music, particularly
in women in rap of like we have no reason
to tear each other down.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Well, thank you so much for so much, Thanks so
much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs.
This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia.
Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos and Rob Sheffield. Executive
produced by Gus Winner, Jason Vine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,
and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric
(31:15):
Zeiler
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Britney Spanos and I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to
shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover
what makes them so great. This week, we're diving into
an absolute classic, super Bass by Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
The song I've had a lot of fun listening to
Henripe like all week prior to this.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It places at.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Number four twenty six on the list, and it was
released in twenty eleven on as a bonus track, originally
on the UK edition of Pink Friday, which was Nicki's
debut album and then ended up becoming her first really,
really really massive hit as the lead artist.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, this was breakthrough hit until this. Who is known
to really to the general public mostly for features, but
this was the song that told everybody who the f
she is. This is where most people heard her for
the first time, and it shows are off in peak
form two. So it's a perfect introd.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I mean, Nicki's rise the few years leaning up
to that was just like so incredible and so amazing.
I mean, she had released a bunch of mixtapes. She
released a trio of mixtapes that got a lot of
people's attention, and we're sort of just like really showing
off what made her so unique at that time, which
is like she is one a really excellent rapper. She
is just like a formidable rapper, but also just like
(01:24):
so funny and so like she has like these great characters.
She has like these like great one liners, like you know,
she kind of was introducing her own cinematic universe almost
of like like nicky voices and characters and lines like
you know, it's like like there's always like that joke
about like her sons.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Like it's just like you know, how many sons does
she have? And like it's like kind.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Of like those types of things like she was introducing
us with the trio of of mixtapes, ended up getting
Low Wayne's attention after beating me up Scottie, and that
ended up getting her signed to Lowayne's label. I mean
that kind of sets the tone for what will happen
over the next like two years, but I mean still ongoing,
but especially those kind of like.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That first four years of Nicki's career was just kind
of like hit after hit.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Of constant Nicki in the Zeigeist moments.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And just Nikki after Niki never shy about showing off
her different persona. Remember when she was at the VMA's
and it was this clip where it was all Roman
all the way, and it was like, this is what
she's doing with this spotlight moment is just concentrating on
one character.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, and even just like thinking about how much how
many hits were packed into this time and even like
looking back on it, it feels like decades and decades
upon of like iconic verses and iconic songs and one
liners from her. But I mean like a lot of
these are just like released like week after week, like
a period of time where she was just like churning
(02:52):
out some of the most memorable moments in pop and
rap history. And I mean even just like going back,
like the first two chart hit she had were February
twenty ten, which ended up being the same year that
she would later release Pink Friday and its original incarnation
was a Knockout with Lil Wayne and Up Out My
Face remix with Mariah Carey were released like in the
(03:13):
same couple of weeks. In February twenty head, which is
just like kind of insane to think, Like looking at that,
I was just like, I cannot believe that is sort
of that was the back to back of that time
of like those two songs, which were sort of just
like began the snowball effect of like constant Nikki hit.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Gives an idea of her range, right.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You're right, yeah, I mean she was someone who was
a go to for a lot of people still is
like in terms of no matter what genre, no matter
like what style you or even i mean even like
Knockout by a Lil Wayne was not typical Lil Wayne track,
but even just kind of like she was that person
that if you needed a really great verse, whether you're
a pop star or like a rock band or like
(03:52):
an EDM artist, whatever, Like, she was someone that you
can go to and she would really mesh very well
with like whatever salad you were doing and bring something
completely different to it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, very dangerous as a feature, very dangerous to have
her on your song just because she's likely to dust you.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I mean even you know. That was February twenty ten,
when she had sort of this debut on the charts
for the very first time by October twenty ten. Was
that moment where she had this like really kind of
incredible breakout moment where she was featured on Monster by
Kanye West and she is on this song with Kanye,
with jay Z, with Rick Ross with bony Ver, which
(04:29):
again just sort of very twenty ten moment that that was.
But I mean for Nicki to be in twenty ten
on a track with Kanye and jay Z and Rick
Ross and to completely steal the show on that song
was like a mind blowing moment. I think for anyone,
any lover of rap music at that time. To have
Nicki Minaj be the person who was at that time
(04:50):
still a very very very new artist, still just kind
of gain her bearings on the charts, gain her bearings
in this world was like pretty insane.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Like that was.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I mean, it's like one of the most talked about
verses I think in history totally.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's it's a verse that introduced her and for Kanye
to put her on that song, Like you said, there's
a murderers rove talent on that song, a very confident
song in so many ways, but also just having all
those people peaking on your own record. But as you said,
the Nicki verse is one of the most famous verses
of all time, and she really does steal the show
(05:25):
on a song that is where everybody is shining, everybody
is doing an astounding job. It's a great track, but
Nicky's presence, she just looms all over it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's crazy because I feel like I've, you know, much
like many people who love this song and love Nikki,
that is a verse that I'm like, I constantly just
I like, sometimes it's like a skip ahead because I
really really need to get to the Nicki verse, because
sometimes you just have like a you just like really
need to listen to it. And it's always funny, where
like if I've done that multiple times in a row
and I go back and like, oh, yeah, like the
rest of the song is really good. This is like
(05:57):
actually a really really great song, and then you get
to nick and you're like like, yes, but this is
this is the best part of the song.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, it is the best part of the song. You're
totally right, yeah. But for her to go from this
to the popness of super bass opposite sides of her,
and for those to come out roughly the same time,
the same fall and showing off opposite sides of what
she was doing.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think that was what surprised so
many people, especially lovers of her mixtapes and loved, you know,
already what she was doing prior to gain sign, prior
to already starting to make moves on the charts. Like,
I think people were really shocked at how much of
a pop girl Nicki was, how much of a pop
girl she wanted to be, and especially her singing and
kind of that desire to kind of create these like
(06:39):
bubblegum pop songs mixed with sort of the hardness of
her verses and kind of find ways to blend that.
I think people were genuinely very shocked at what Pink
Friday ended up sounding like, you know, Pink Friday as
like sort of like the imagery of it, the way
that she really like leaned into this kind of beginnings
of that like EDM moment in pop music that we
(06:59):
would like really really kind of hear even more in
coming years, but was very much influenced by Lady Gaga
and sort of like early Katy Perry and Kesha and
kind of what was going on with all of those artists.
I think a lot of people were very shocked at
like the fact that she was able to very seamlessly
blend what was happening in in pop with how much
of like an incredible.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
MC she was.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, such an era in pop. Yeah, Brittany era.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, this is the very This is a very defining
era for me personally. But this album in particular, and
all of the songs that kind of came from Pink
Friday and then her sophomore album, Pink Friday Roman Reloaded
like are just like some of the best nikky songs
and best songs of that era.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Pink Friday was totally different from what anybody was expecting.
It's funny because that was a very long awaited album
that was in an album that people had been waiting for.
She had been building her rep and it's rare for
an artist making a debut album to already be so
famous and so itcclaimed, and so people were really waiting
for Pink Friday and it turned out to be very different.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Do you have a favorite Pink Friday song.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's got to be super bas Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I obviously love super Bass, but also a Moment for Life.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I love Moment for.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Great one with Drake and I think fly is on
this this Pink Friday I always get like the Pink
Friday end up becoming such a franchise for us.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Of course, there's Pink Friday, then.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
There was the Deluxe I mean this is also like
one of the more messy eras or beginning of a
very messy era in the industry where it was kind
of like you have an album, then there's like the
deluxe version of the album, and like the like bonus version,
and then it's like kind of like, okay, which one,
which one are we.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Doing right now?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
But there was Pink Friday, then Pink Friday kind of
the deluxe editions with super Bass, which ended up becoming
one of the biggest hits from that. Then Pink Friday
Roman reloaded, then of course Pink Friday two. More recently
so the Pink Friday franchise has has had a lot
of bangers from it.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It will never stop, Will Never Stop. And for Pink
Friday to concentrate so much on her pop side and
people are really waiting for a more hardcore sort of approach,
and that was the time that Monster came out and
for her to be so hardcore on that song and
then so many melodies. There was some disappointment at the
(09:10):
time with the album, but it was just because it
was so different from people I've been expecting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And she really ended up leaning even more into it
for you know, again with Pink Friday Into Pink Friday
Roman Reloaded, which came out in twenty twelve, like that
sort of back to back of those two albums were
leaning so so heavily into this, like edm sound, I
mean all she like she really kind of like really
went for it with all those because there was so
(09:35):
much of that success with songs like super Bass and
you know, Moment for Life and then later ended up
being like Pound the Alarm, Starships, like all those songs
did so well and you know, ended up becoming like
a really great defining era for Nicki. But she really
leaned very, very heavily into it, which I admire that
she did, even though it was that disappointment to kind
(09:56):
of like the kind of rapheads who were like, this
is not the Nikki the mixtape, Nikki, this is not
the one that we like thought was going to end
up like sort of being the queen of rap.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But she ended up doing it very seamlessly.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
She built up such a rep with the mixtapes, and
the mixtapes really created this hardcore sort of legend for her.
I mean, she really was already a legend when Pink
Friday came out, and just the Pink Friday was so
different from the mixtapes, the idea that Lil Wayne was
involved tangentially just historically in the creation of her reputation
(10:29):
and her early.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Rep and I think like a lot of what she
was really good at was like she had sort of
the albums that she was releasing at the time were
so pop leaning and so kind of her really wanting
to compete with the big pop stars of that era
again like the Gagas and the Katies of that of
that time. But you know, then she would churn out
these incredible featured versus. I mean, this is like such
(10:53):
a big part of that Nikki lore and that Nikki
appeal was like she has had such a great history
of working with so many artists because she would work
with like so many of these like excellent rappers like
put out like the hardest verse on the entire record
and the like, and then be like and here's starships.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Totally. I love those mixtapes, those early mixtapes. Yeah, and
she was so raw, often very filthy, Yeah, and so innovative,
like you said, in an amazing rapper from the get
go ye and the personality that she built, I mean,
going back to them, there's still a lot of that,
you know, that Barbie obsession, that Parajiku obsession.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, And I mean super Bass of course has its
own song that ended up being released officially as a
single in April twenty eleven, and it was a sleeperhead.
It ended up taking a few months to actually really
really rise on the charts and ended up hitting number
three on the Billboard Hot one hundred, was her highest
ranking song as a lead artist at the time. And
I mean, I think that one is such a great
(11:52):
example of that balance of like the verses are incredible,
Like it's really peak kind of Nikki rapping. She's putting
on like the British voice, the like Roman kind of
tease of Roman in the in Superbass, but also has
like her showing off or singing. She's singing a bit
with Esther Dean who co wrote the song, and really
kind of showcasing that really delicate balance that she she
(12:13):
was toying with at times, very indelicately like in terms
of how she'd approach it, but you know that really
great sort of nicky dual dynamic of like hears like
her singing pop girl putting an incredible hook, like one
of the catchiest hooks of a time, known for catchy
hook with her showcasing that she is a remarkable rapper
(12:33):
with an incredible and very unique flow that would end
up being imitated for many years. To come still and
find that balance on the song.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The balance is amazing. It's really a perfect sort of
sizzle reel for everything that she could do and everything
that she wanted to do, very different from what she'd
done earlier in her rapper career when she was just
building up her rep on the mixtapes. This one shows
the different sort of range that she does. I love
when she uses the thing accent.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
The English accent on that song is one of my
favorite moments. She's really got a thing for American guys.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and you know, I believe I believe she's British.
You know, you can't tell me differently, but yeah, I
mean she even just like the way the song starts
out there is that sort of like very sort of dreamy,
sparkly like bubble gummy, kind of like synth little flare
that starts it off, and then she kind of comes
in like much harder than you anticipate on the song,
(13:27):
Like she kind of comes in, she's like this one's
for the boys with the booming system like that, a
little bit more of that edge into it on top
of this like very delicate, like sweet and.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Kind of like airy type of little riff that happens there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, the riff, like and it leads to that chorus,
which is just such an iconic course just in terms
of the poppiness of it and just the way it
repeats the sort of the pop side of Pink Friday. Yeah,
yet with such hardcore rapping in the middle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I guess like in the years since Pink Print, Nikki
has had like a pretty like divisive maybe we'll use
that word, career and sort of public image over the years.
I'm curious kind of like what that means for the
feature of Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
As you said, you're a barb and for her to
sort of take the turn that she took in many ways,
the Pink Print is sort of the peak when she
was you know, but tormented genius and what she's done
the last four years has pissed a lot of people off.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean even starting with Queen, like you know
that release was it just had like a lot of
like weird setbacks. And I mean, granted, this was like
a kind of a weird time in music releasing where
I remember like Beyonce and Lemonade like going on title
with a kind of botched rollout of that album in
a really weird way, and it was just like a
weird time for digital releases where I think a lot
(14:41):
of industries and streaming services were still getting their bearings
with how to do that that it was just like
that rollout was a little bit weird. She's been in
a lot of feuds with other specifically female rappers that
I think has left a really bad taste in people's mouths,
And that's that for me, has kind of been sort
of a weird thing to sort of developed because she
is so iconic and I do very much see her
(15:05):
as the Queen of rap, but it sucks to see
her kind of be in constant fights with younger with
younger women who have all said at different times that
they are a big fan of her you know, of course,
a lot of the stuff with her husband and her
brother and being convicted predators really also sucks. Like it's
just you know, her relation to them and are kind
(15:26):
of caping for a lot of men like them, and
then again entering into feuds with young women who have
looked up to her and oh a lot to her.
It's made my relationship with her music very complicated over
the years. But yeah, I don't know, I think it's
you know, hasn't slowed down. A lot of a really
big fandom, a lot of you know, her tour's been
selling out, She's had a really really massive run with
(15:48):
her Pink Friday to tour and kind of has announced
even more dates and all that. So of course it's
still Nicki Minaogency's still you know, one of the best
selling artists of all time. But it is sort of
a confusing place to be actually, because it's like kind
of stuff that people usually do when they're in their
like seventies, you know, like artists they are kind of
like really do not care anymore, and they're kind of like, well, like,
you know, this new music sucks and led to a
(16:10):
lot of like kind of weird relationships for her in
the industry and kind of really confusing, almost kind of
seemingly like now like isolated place in the music industry
that Nikki is where that wasn't the case for a really.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Long time, well really in a world of her own, yeah,
I mean musically and in every other way.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, So I'm wondering what that will mean for the future,
because I mean I think a lot about the time
that she sort of came up as an artist, I mean,
this was every genre music sucks for women, but rap
has especially been really really hard for a lot of
women to break through in and to kind of have
a lot of success. And even with super Bass that
was like the highest charting single for a female rapper
(16:46):
since work It at that time, Wow, and Pink Friday
even becoming like the second and most successful album by
a female rapper since Miseducation. Like, you know, there was
a lot of barriers for every woman in rap to
kind of break through in, and so you know, it's
been really confusing to kind of see that sort of
her relationships with other women in the genre sort of
as it developed over the course of the last decade.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But musically, like she's still kind of the queen of
Wrapped Me.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And after the break we have Manka per Conte to
talk about super Bass. We are joined by Rolling Stone
staff writer makaper Conte. Mochapr. Thank you so much for
joining us today.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Thank thanks guys again.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I'm around two, super happy.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
To be this time in person.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I know the stars aligned.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, thank you. Well.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I wanted to hear about sort of the first time
you encounter I'm sure it was with the same way
that everyone else encountered Nicki Minaj, but sort of your
kind of experience kind of watching those like early years
of her really blowing up leading up to super Bass.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, I mean, my first real, real memory of Nicki
Minaj is riding the bus with who is now my
best friend and has been my best friend for eighteen years,
and we would blast eighty big Piggy and I get
crazy and we would wrap it and because like on
the bus, you would just kind of trade music. I
didn't even imagine what we were listening to music on iPods,
(18:07):
like because I wouldn't have had a physical mixtape, so
probably on like our iPods. She was just so weird,
like the whole spiel. I win you lose on ity
bity piggy like ben that from top to bottom. And
I think it was just like it was really exciting
and of course, like I didn't grow up in an
era where there were women rappers that were popular at all,
(18:28):
and so to really watch her from the ground up
build and like really change the course of like music
has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, I mean there was something kind of surreal happening
in those years where it was like, especially for young
women who were listening to her, like this was just
like someone who was like you knew all the lyrics,
you were learning it, but also like boys listened to
her too, like there was like a lot with that,
you know. Yeah, it was just like this like kind
of big phenomenon happening in real time as she was
blowing up as it was happening.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
And I think one of the things too, when I
think I haven't actually thought about like men's relationship with
Nicki Minas, it's a really interesting point because I was
listening to I Get Crazy on the way here and
hearing Wayne and how much synergy they had in her
being able to come up under him at the time,
where like Wayne was of course like the hottest he
had ever been around that time. I wonder like how
(19:16):
much that had to do with like how universal like
she became, because eventually she was on every song. She
was like the tea pain of music.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Eventually.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Even just like that psychotomy too, of like her as
a rapper and her as someone who could be like
a really great pop star, which is what super Bass
sort of helped solidify in so many ways. I mean,
tell me about kind of watching that dichotomy that she
was really playing with at that time and able to
like really make such an important part of who she
was as a as a star. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I remember the reactions around super Bass being really mixed,
right because it's like, this is this hardcore rapper, This
is this girl from New York that Wayne just like
plucked right out of like her neighborhood. Like what is
she doing in this pink wig and this like little
dance and little shorts and like making such poppy music.
But it's like you can see such a through line
(20:05):
from that to like Megan and Sweetest Pie and Cardi
and Maroon five or like every other rapper that Maroon
five is like put on a song like she really
opened this really interesting door for like rap and particularly
rap by like women then to be pop music, yeah,
and to like play with like more traditional like Max
Martini like pop sounds.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And there was like a coexisting happening two of those
two sides of her, where like she was someone who
was very much letting fy yourself as like one of
the greatest rappers of all time and someone who can
like really you know, just like have like this incredible flow,
but also could make like one of the catchiest top
forty songs that you ever hear.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, it's really catchy. I feel like I can't quite
remember what my reaction was to super Rased. I don't
think that I loved it. I think I grew to
like it a lot more, and the way that like
you grow to like like party in the USA, it's
just like one of those songs that like we all
know and like can like bring us joy and we
kind of commune around. I think I probably thought it
was kind of silly when it came out, but even
when I listen to it now, is like she's really
really rapping on it, and it's it's fun just because
(21:04):
it's a pop song. She didn't like lose her edge,
and she seems to have always wanted to be a singer.
Like I was even listening to Pink Friday too. She
does so much singing on that it seems to be
like really important to her, So it seems like she
always wanted to blend those two things.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'm curious what you thought of Pink Friday in general
when it came out, because it was really disconcertingly pop.
The whole album was so pop, it was so different
from what people have been expecting and hoping for.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, I am one of those people that give Pink
Friday it's flowers because I know how important Nikki is
to hip hop culture and I know that and that
being her like mainstream breakthrough is really important. I don't
think it is that great of an album. I think
that Nikki does not actually make very good whole albums.
(21:51):
There is this phenomenon in rap across men and women
where some people can make incredible songs, but like an
album requires like movement and storytelling, in curation and like
making really hard choices, and I feel like it's mostly
in the beat selection on Pink Friday that I'm just like,
something about it is a little too cheesy. It's like
a little too corny. But again, like the Nikki that
(22:11):
I'm like most drawn to is like the I get crazy,
itty bitty piggy like even like FTCU on Pink Friday,
everybody would low uzzy, like I like when there is
a little more hardness to it or just like a
little less corn I don't know really how to explain,
and that might just be a personal difference, but I've
really really tried with Nikki albums, and I can always
(22:31):
find more than a handful of really great songs, but
the whole units, to me are never what I feel
like she could be capable of. Yeah, even yeah, I
don't have like a Nikki album that I like, love to.
My favorite Nicki album so far as Pink Friday too,
yea and even five songs.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Like when people were like, yeah, I don't know about this,
I was like, this is my favorite thing. But I
think it's like because she felt so with the times,
and I'm like, maybe the times that Pink Friday was
with was whatever was happening in pop music, which maybe
I wasn't that attuned to at that time.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It was very like kind of connected to that sort
of like Kesha type of like like early Gaga, early
Katy Perry kind.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Of sound that was happening.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I'm curious. I mean, I guess the contrast like some
of your favorite Nikki songs or verses, like I feel
like she's someone who, you know, I have favorite songs verse,
but her verses, especially on other people, you know, she's
a guest first or anything like remixes things like that
are just so striking. And of course the Monster verse
is like one of the most famous guest versus maybe
(23:35):
of all time, you know, and she has like and
that's one of like I don't even know how like
a hundred, like one of a hundred, like incredible, you know,
just really excellent kind of feature She's had, some curious
kind of what are some of your your favorite Nikki
I guess you could just call them moments moments.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I love her on My Beautiful, Dark Twisted Fantasy. The
intro like fairy tale intro. Her voice, her character was
just so perfect for that and the like lush like
production under it. It's one of the things that makes
that album I think so elevated, just like all the
thought put into it and like finding Nikki to like
get into that rhythm for it, and that's not even
like her really really rapping, you know, like she's just
(24:13):
like kind of playing around there. It's funny. I'm trying
to think about the older things, but it's like I'm
thinking about her on a Poundtown remix with Sexy Red,
I think, yeah, I think that. And that's the thing,
like when I feel like Niki is keeping up with
the times, particularly in like rap, but still keeping her
own unique bend to it is when I like, really
really like her.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So yeah, Big Sean Ass remix was like that was Yeah.
I think of that as like one of the moments
where she was trying to fit in with the song.
She wasn't trying to like totally watch the song, but like, yeah,
that that's a really good That might be my favorite
Nikki verse of all.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
That's a really really good one.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'm a big fan of for Trey Songs collaboration.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
I love that good one.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It could have been made for you.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I love her verse on Bottoms Up.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I love her verse.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I'm little freak by sure, especially that everybody loves Raymond line,
something that I would just like yeah constantly.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
That is a great one. That's an alzheimer.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yeah, I didn't used to, but now that I listened
to it, I like her verse on Motorsport a lot ye, Like,
I think that was a very tense moment. You know,
there was already tensions kind of brewing between she and
Cardi before, like everything really really blew up. They're trying
to collaborate. Cardi has an outstanding verse. I love her
calling herself the trap Selena. But now I'm thinking about
how Nikki like kind of like creeps on it, Like
(25:37):
how like kind of intimidating she is on it. Like
I really like her attitude in that verse a lot
more now, And I think that's that's that's like a
pretty iconic moment for her too, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I mean, I think the thing with Nikki and something
he brought up a couple of times is like the
characters and sort of that mix of like she is
very very funny, and she's very quick with her humor,
and she also is like she's she's a theater kid,
like very good at like embodying Roman and embodying like
all these like different kind of personas in the songs.
I mean, tell me about how that kind of set
(26:08):
Nikki apart and also like kind of evolved over the
course of her career.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things,
you know, like earlier when I was like she was
so weird, it was like one of the things that
made her weird, but like also then made her really interesting.
The Harajuku Barbie character was like really interesting to me,
her calling herself that, the like Monica Lewinsky references and
the Nikki Lewinsky character, and like that being about her
relationship to low Wayne. You know, like everything is means now,
(26:33):
and I think artists are really encouraged, Like you can
see like artists being encouraged like Victoria Mane does as
well to like take memes and make them a part
of their own body of work. And it's kind of
like she kind of did that with like things that
weren't like as well known, but you know, like when
Stefani previously did like the whole Harajuku thing, So it's
kind of pulling that in. There's a political reference there,
(26:54):
so I feel like it, maybe in a weird way,
is kind of like a precursor to that.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, I feel like right now, like the the Young
Money Crew, I mean, especially Nicki and Drake are in
such like a weird kind of moment I kind of
make or break I guess, kind of legacy moment, which
is kind of surreal to even think about, you know,
the like going just you know, fourteen fifteen years ago
and just kind of that sort of imperial phase that
lasted I think longer than I think anyone anticipated that
(27:18):
it would.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Nicki, of course, is still she has a massive tour.
I mean, she still has like the Barbs forever, but
it has been sort of like an interesting few years,
I guess in sort of her career and like kind
of her interaction with a lot of younger artists specifically,
I mean, tell me kind of where that stands for
you now and sort of how you view Nicki in
the present day, especially being a fan of Pink for
you too, and kind of her music still kind of
(27:40):
being having like really great moments and things like that,
Like where do you sort of stand in sort of
your Barb Barb fandom.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm really disappointed, Yeah, And I try to not
let that take away from the things that she's accomplished.
In my mind, like I'd never want to like diminish
her talent in my mind or her impact, but I
do think that, you know, it's like dark Knight, live
long enough to see yourself become the villain type thing,
(28:09):
you know, or die of be a hero, and maybe
those fourteen years were too long, but I think that's
kind of what we're seeing happen. And it's funny because
right like one of the first I think, like og
Nikki beefs was with Kim and it seemed like there
was this air that like this older woman was not
embracing Nicki, or Nikki felt that she wasn't embraced, or
there was just this like dissonance between generations that she's
(28:29):
like recreating with so many young women in RAP. And
it's like everybody who comes into the game cites her
as an influence, like even after they fall out Lotto
like other folks I spice, even like you know, she
says that they're cool, but like you know, techt leaked
where she was having a hard time processing that relationship,
like no one has ever took away I think from
(28:50):
what she's accomplished. But yeah, it is really disappointing to see.
And then I mean, I think some of like the
personal choices too in her like personal life have been
disappointing to see.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I read this really.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Interesting thing essay in the New York Times music magazine
many years ago. The writer was predicting that like these
this generation of stars would have to fall. But this
is like maybe like twenty like seventeen that I read
this something like that. I was in grad school, maybe
twenty eighteen, and I was like, this person was basically arguing,
like Beyonce's not and Drake and Kanye and Nikki, these
(29:21):
people can't all be who they are forever. And I
was like, well, who's gonna take their place?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And that.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Proved true for many years after. But I think that
person was right, and we're starting to see because like
there's so much music, there's so much access, there's so
many different types of women in rap, there's so many
different attitudes and styles and regions that are reflected in
particularly women's rap, that like, we don't have to hold
on to someone, particularly if they're like not nice.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah you know, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Something that came up for me and wrap within the
Missy episode and earlier in this episode is just you know,
how many limited spaces were allowed for women in rap
music and kind of this like Nikki kind of even
having to come up in a time where it was
like sort of just like you have to kind of
like claw for that space then to be like seen
as equivalent to you know, the Kanys and jay Z's
(30:09):
at the moment. You know, it's like, I guess like
part of me like feels for that in a way,
but also I feel like I stand.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Very much at the same place where you are, where
it's like, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, I think because you can understand the origins of
something or you can empathize what the feeling, doesn't necessarily
mean that you think it's right. Yeah, I think that's
where it is, right. You know, it's like, yes, you
did have to claw and climb your way to the top,
but it's not like that, and none of I think
the most pop and rap girls want to be that way.
Lotto and Flow, Milly and Meg are together all the time.
(30:37):
You know, sometimes it seems like some relationships here and
there have like dissipated, but it's not always breaking out
into these like catastrophic fights or like beefs all the time.
I think that there is an aura in music, particularly
in women in rap of like we have no reason
to tear each other down.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Well, thank you so much for so much, Thanks so
much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs.
This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia.
Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos and Rob Sheffield. Executive
produced by Gus Winner, Jason Vine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,
and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric
(31:15):
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