June 19, 2024 • 27 mins
Rob Base never thought “It Takes Two” would become a massive hit. He and DJ E-Z Rock were just aiming to make a neighborhood party record, straight from the streets of Harlem, to get bodies moving in their local clubs and skating rinks. But “It Takes Two” blew up into a monster hit around the world, forever changing hip-hop.
The music business was shocked when this raw rap anthem crashed into the U.S. Top 40, with zero crossover or compromise. “It Takes Two” transformed history, yet it’s also a dance-floor banger that never fails to light up a wedding or party. This song changed the way people thought about hip-hop, at a time when it was still considered a fad; it also altered the way people thought about sampling, reviving James Brown for a new era.
On this week’s episode hosts Rob Sheffield and Brittany Spanos discuss how “It Takes Two” changed pop history, and why it lives on. They’re also joined by a special guest: Rob Base himself, as he tells the story of how the song came together. But like everyone else, Base was stunned when their street beats conquered the world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stone's hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Rob Sheffield, and we're here to shed light
on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes
them so great. This week we're going into It Takes
two by Rob Bass and DJ Easy Rock. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What an absolutely catchy song, kind of perfect.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
One of the truly great summer songs of all time. Yeah,
it was on the twenty twenty one list of the
five hundred Greatest Songs and number one sixteen.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the song was released in nineteen eighty eight. And
I was reading an interview that Rob had done with
with Rolling Stone a few years ago, kind of in
the series about how great nineteen eighty eight was for
hip hop and how their manager had basically just asked
them to work on a couple songs so they can
start maybe getting signed and start chopping around music. And
(00:55):
it started off as just a demo that they were
using to get signed, and they use this great sample
of Lynn Collins nineteen seventy two song think About It,
which has that yeah woo that sample in the background
and then it just completely changed their lives.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It changed everything. It was phenomenal. It was the epical
hip hop song of the epical hip hop summer of
nineteen eighty eight, which was such a golden age for
hip hop.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, I mean what was making nineteen eighty eight that
golden age and that kind of that best year? And
if you agree that it was the best year of
hip hop, I.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Don't know if it's the best year, but it was
definitely a golden age in that people had taken the
idea from Run DMC that you could focus the music
entirely on hip hop and make street records and that
they could cross over and be hits. But so much
of the music was going strange places that you wouldn't
have predicted. But the summer of eighty eight was a
(01:50):
time when you could turn on the radio and just
hear hip hop getting reinvented week after week, with so
many brilliant minds building on the innovation of what people
had just done. So it was this ongoing creative project
where people were constantly checking each other out and bouncing
back with a new record. So the end of the summer,
(02:10):
it Takes two was a hit all summer long. Yeah,
and it was really strange to think of it as
a top forty hit when it was so raw and uncut.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I mean this was also such a turning point,
right in terms of kind of hip hop as pop
music and kind of the opening of spaces both in
radio and on MTV of like having more of these
hip hop records played in primetime and played, you know,
on the radio beyond just like the late night mixes
that would play rap music, or MTV having this was
(02:39):
like the first year that you know, MTV.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Raps TPA yeah, summer.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I mean this was such like a turning point
of seeing this music become what was top forty pop
music and being played as equally as everything else being
played at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah. It was so crazy how hip hop was considered
a fad, almost novelty music right up till Run DMC
really defined that it could be. Well, Run DMC really
showed everybody what it could be and raising Hell from
nineteen eighty six, which was their third album, but a
phenomenal album. Yeah, Run DMC had already changed the world
(03:15):
with records like Sucker MC's and it's like that in
rock Box they were as they said, the first hip
hop group to make a street record that was for
the streets rather than the clubs. Raising hell, they proved
that it was an album format, and they showed how
flexible it was, how diverse. It was still a phenomenal album.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I mean with it takes two. I mean that song,
I mean is just like such a great kind of
catchy song that is still very much played on radio constantly,
is very much still kind of a foundational song for
in a lot of ways. I mean, what about that
song makes it so so great and kind of stand
out from the summer of eighty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, it takes two takes that James Brown break that
you mentioned, James Brown going yet and Lynn Collins going
wo and just loops it into eternity. It was at
a time when James Brown symbolized so much in pop music.
He symbolized its independence from pop, its independence from compromise,
its uncompromising blackness. And that James Brown was used in
(04:16):
this really mutated way, and that there's so much disco
in the record as well, that it's got that strafe
set it off rhythm track. Rob Basse told me once
that he was thinking of one specific roller rink in
Harlem where they used to go and skate. Yeah, and
he was thinking of a record that would affect that
particular room and what people like to skate to in
(04:37):
that particular room. So he was aiming for a really
specific building, a really specific room, a really specific crowd,
And to his surprise and to everybody's surprise, it turned
out to be a sound that the whole world wanted
a piece of.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I mean, I love the roller rink inspiration. I feel
like that's so apt for this song.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean, I mean it's just so a great dance records,
such a great hip hop record, Like I mean, the
use of the samples is so incredible and kind of
you know, just like so infectious on it. And I
mean just like the flow is I mean just like amazing.
Like it's everything that I really love about like a
really great kind of hip hop track.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Absolutely Yeah. And that records like this were dropping so fast.
Records is innovative and brilliant. So that summer you have
records by EPMD like strictly business and you've got to chill.
You've got Eric B and Rakim Follow the Leader. You've
got Public Enemy with Rebel without a pause and bring
the noise. There was so much happening in the air
(05:38):
in nineteen eighty eight that for a record like It
Takes Two, which is just a straight up street record,
to just cross over to Top forty pop, it was
unprecedented and very strange. I mean, it was very different
from run DMC when they finally made the Top forty
with a pop hit. They did it the compromising way.
They did a cover of Walk This Way Aerosmith, which
(06:01):
a song which had a really big impact on Aerosmith's
career but in many ways turned out to be not
so great for Run DMC.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, the video for the song is also really really
great outside of the They kind of had to self
finance this video basically and kind of filming outside of
the Apollo And there's like a like a bismarky like
cameo in the in the video too, of him just
like walking past or something.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, it's a total straight up Harlem street scene like
the record, and that something like this could be a hit.
You didn't have to cover a pop hit, you didn't
have to do that with the famous pop artist. You
could just do a record like this, and that was
what people wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, And I mean, are you a fan of kind
of the Rob bassed dj ez rock kind of full
discography and like, what are some what are some songs,
other songs I should check out by them?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Joy and Pain is a great one. I'm an unusually
huge fan of Rob Bass. His second album, The Incredible Bass,
which was done without DG. Easy Rock. That's a great
record as well. War is a great version of the
Motown song War. You're just talking about rap battles in
the eighties and he says, you know what, I don't
see Patty and Luther battling. But Rob Bass was someone
(07:12):
who just had this, as he put it in the song,
a real funky concept. That album, it takes two. It
had other great hits on it, like Joy and Pain. Yeah,
but it's really this one song seemed to hit at
a specific time and place and has never really gone away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, I was reading in an interview that you'd
done about how his favorite use of it was in
the Proposal. It was just like such a great scene
with it with like Sandra Bullock and Ryan and Ryan
Reynolds kind of singing the song. Like the fact that
the song is just still kind of finding new ways
to break through and kind of be in you know.
So it's in so many movies and TV shows and
also like there's a great Black Eyed Peace song that
(07:51):
samples like their version. You know. It's like, I think
it's so fascinating to kind of see this song that
obviously was so important to this like breaking point for
hip hop in this moment when hip hop was becoming
even more mainstream and being that song of the summer
that it was kind of still still being such an
important touchdowne for everyone.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's very similar to a rock sane chante song that
was huge around the same time, go On Girl, Yeah,
which is also a phenomenal song.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Love that song. That's a top song for me.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Rox Sande Chante with rhymes written by Big Daddy Kane, who,
along with Bismarquis, was also so huge in that great
hip hop explosion of eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Long Lived the Cane is one of my favorite albums
from the eighties, especially the song eight and No Half
Step in Yes to Me that was a wordsmith just
showing how far he could go to the outer extremes
and yet not making it sound complex or thorny, but
just making it rock.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, I mean especially kind of with how big this
year was, and especially how big this particular song It
Takes Two was, and kin kind of what it cracked
through at that moment in sort of radio and MTV
and kind of all these outlets that previously were more
medicine to have hip hop be played against, you know,
like next to Madonna and you know, Prince and Michael
(09:10):
Jackson and you know, all the kind of like what
seemed to be just like more kind of straightforward like
pop music, Like what sort of happened or I guess,
like what do you remember of happening in ninete eighty
nine and going forward and what this allowed for hip
hop over the next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, this was the era before sampling got really litigitious,
which really changed everything in late ninety nine especially, But
this was the era when basically people treated samples like
they were free and DJ could take a beat from
anywhere and turn it into a hitter at least turned
it into a great record. Yeah, And there was so
much creativity going around with an album, Like in early
(09:49):
eighty nine you have Dala Soul with later that year
it's the Beastie Boys with Paul's boutique, but people were
making such adventurous pastiche records with sampling, and it ended
very quickly and very horribly. The Dala Soul song was
a really minor track on Three Feet High and Rising.
It was transmitting live from Mars and it used a
(10:11):
sample of the sixties pop hit by the Turtles called
You Showed Me, who previously were not considered all that
consequential in pop history, but Dalas Hole sampled them on
their album and that was the lawsuit that really froze
that sort of creative era of anything goes sampling.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I didn't realize it was the
Turtles that kind of were the ones that broke that down.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It was the song where Dala Soul with the French lesson. Yeah,
and it's while that, you know, like so many great
Prince Paul productions, you listened to Three Feet High in
Rising now and it's still full of surprises. You still
hear so much imagination and creativity going into it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean, I love sort of the kind of
crate digging stories from all these great producers and mcs
from the eighties and early nineties, which just like how
they've on those samples and kind of just like digging
into those classic and often long lost disco and soul
records and rock records that they would just kind of
find and kind of like digging through record stories and
finding these songs that they were able to kind of
(11:12):
patch together and make a massive hit out of.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Absolutely it goes back to the old school rap battles
in the South Bronx, where DJs like Cool Hirk were
innovating the idea of taking a break and making that
the whole record, making that the whole song. Grandmaster Flash, Africa,
Bombada and cool Heart. They famously used to take the
labels off the record so other DJs couldn't peer over
(11:36):
and see what they were breaking. Africa and bab Bada
had a great quote that he liked to put on
music by the Stones or the Beatles or the Monkeys
and later tell people, yeah, you were really dancing to
that monkey's song, and people were really surprised to hear
that they had danced to a monkey zone. I do
that you could take any break and build a record
around it, but it takes too ridiculous. It just takes
(11:57):
that one brief moment in a James Brown song that
was not a crossover hit, definitely like a great digging pick, yeah,
and turned it into the basis of a whole phenomenal
record that was so influential and remains really influential.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, And what do you think it is about this
particular song? I mean, obviously, again, like this year was
so massive, and I mean there are all these incredible
songs that obviously still have so much longevity and have
still kind of maintained their popularity and still sound fresh
and still sound so, you know, influential. But I mean
with this particular song that I mean, I feel like
(12:33):
kind of just is so ingrained into everything that we like,
look here constantly. What do you think it is about
it takes two that's maintained its popularity over the years.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's just so immediate, right, You hear it and it
just grabs you right away.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's kind of hard to not
be like that. Yeah, it was just like completely intoxicated.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Absolutely, one of the great openings, yeah, in music history,
with the announcement that you're about to be a mazed
by the power of Rob Bay and DJ Easy Rock.
Then the most amazing hit it intro yeah, and just
that perfect opening where Rob Bass just says, I win
a rock right now. Yeah, And this is definitely a
song that creates the moment.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah. I mean I think, like especially with any sort
of eighties hip hop and sort of that fusion of
like dance and kind of the songs that are both
you know, club and street like this. I mean, it's
just kind of like a perfect storm of kind of
catchiness and fun that is on all these songs. Like
the song is just so much fun to listen to
and to hear.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, what do you love about eighties hip hop?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, I think like so much of the sampling
and kind of that kind of combination of like like
disco and rock and soul and all of that has
always just like really drawn me. I think just the
songs are so fun and dancy, and I think that's
always been my favorite thing. Like I just really like
I always think of that Missy Elliott outro, and I
(13:54):
think work it where She's just like, like, this is
hip hop, we love to dance. Like that outro is
like such like a kind of encapsulates so much of
what I love, especially about that sort of decade of
the birth of hip hop is how dancy it is?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, absolutely, Missie La definitely a great example of somebody
who takes that playful, creative, anything goes spirit of eighties
hip hop, and it was very much an industry that
was not trying to cross over to pop, but was
able to stand on its own terms.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I mean even just like listening back, it's like
they're so I mean, because they are so influential to
so much of what pop and hip hop would sound
like for the next couple of decades. Like, I think
it seems like so obvious that these songs like it's like,
so they should be hits. You know, it's like a
song like hearing it takes two. It's like, how are
they not? I mean, obviously, of course there's a lot
(14:46):
of reasons why a lot of hip hop artists weren't
signed just yet. But I mean it's one of those
songs where it's like this is of course this is
a big hit. Of course this song would blow up.
I mean, this is like one of the catchiest songs
ever made. It's such like a song that you immediately
need to like move your body as soon as you
hear it, and kind of hard to get out of
your head once you hear it for the first time
and just sounds like it, you know, just sounds so
fresh and like it should be the biggest song of
(15:08):
all time.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Absolutely. In the spring of nineteen eighty nine, Spin magazine
did a list of the greatest songs of all time
and this was number one. Yeah, and it really kind
of summed up what the song meant at the time
that it felt like, right now is a time of
so much creativity and so much innovation, and it takes too.
Is definitely a song that celebrates that. Yeah, it's definitely
(15:29):
a moment that captures hip hop where you could take
this minimal record. It's just a rhythm, there's no pop hook,
there's no outside instruments, and it's just minimal hip hop
for hip hop. It's never intended to cross over. But
you hear that song everywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think that it's like one
of those songs that it is very much like I
still hear it kind of like at block parties and everything.
Like I feel like every time my block has a
party in the summer, like this song is always, always,
always out on the mix.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, those run DMC records for the eighties, they always
still sound so immediate and fresh and impatient, like they
want your attention right now.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, there is like so much of that urgency to
the beat on it takes too as well, Like there
is kind of that like it's so like propulsive and
just like really kind of it's really just like really
hard to not move when you hear it. Yeah, where
do you sort of hear? The influence of it takes
to and of also rob bass and DJ easy rock.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Honestly, the idea of just taking a break and making
a whole song out of it influenced the way everybody
made music. It was a bit like the Ramones in
a way that the Ramones had this just play the
fun part of the song and make that the whole
song and do it over and over and again. But
for hip hop to just prove that you could go
so minimal and still make music that you still hear
(16:46):
weddings and parties, it's still something that is fresh and
influential on how other people make music.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, I feel like, I mean, of course, the Black
Eyed Peas song, the samples that I am a big
fan of that song body, and I mean I feel like, yeah,
so much of Obviously Missy Elliott, who I know we
both both love and have talked about this on the
show before, is so kind of had constantly been pulling
from this era of hip hop and kind of so
(17:15):
much a love letter to a song like It Takes
Two and kind of this like Year of eighty eight
kind of hip hop breaking through and kind of that
that kind of Golden Age is so influential on her.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Absolutely. Yeah. EPMD had such a huge hit that summer
with Strictly Business where they take a little bit from
I Shot the Sheriff and they loop it all the
way through the song, just this really micro minimal sliver
of the song and in a completely weird sort of transcendence.
They don't even use the Bob Marlee version. They use
the Eric Clapton version, And it sounds so wild to
(17:48):
take this little bit of a rock version of a
reggae song and just loop it into this elemental hip
hop beat. Yeah, but to me that records like that
sum up the spirit of that period and hip hop
and what made it a real Golden Age.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, for sure. Next we'll be joined by Rob Bass.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, thank you, this record is a classic.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Where does a record like this come from?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well, I mean it was definitely like a last minute thing.
You know, me and DJ Easy Rock had to be
in the studio that night, you know, to go and
work on something. We ain't really have nothing ready, So
we went to one of our homeboy's house and he
played a bunch of records for us and we was like, yo,
I like that. He said, you know, he like this,
and we just took both of the records and went
to the studio put them both together, and that's how
(18:35):
we came up with It Takes two.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, I'm curious. How how did you and easy Rock
originally meet and kind of connect and start making music together.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, we met in public school, grade school. I think
it was fifth grade. Yeah, we met in fifth grade,
and we used to always play you know, softball together,
and we hung together. And then you know, once the
hip hop things started, you know, coming in to play,
you know, we just got into that. So it was
like it was actually like seven of us, and we
was a group called a Short Shot seven when we
first started. And then you know, as time went on,
(19:06):
you know, people just broke off and then me and
him just stuck together and kept going.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that
musical chemistry that the two of you have and had
and when you sort of realized that the two of
you were creating something really special.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You know, we used to go to all of the
block parties and skating rinks and listen to what people
were dancing to, and we just came up we said,
hey man, we got to get something to make people
party and dance. So, you know, we got in the
studio and we saw certain you know, beats and rhythms
that they used to dance to, and we just try
to come up with that same type of vibe and
(19:38):
we was actually able to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
You know, the record. It was wild that it became
such a huge hit, even though it's so street.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, because we definitely we made it for the We
made it for a Harlem and the Bronx. Basically, we
didn't know it would go worldwide.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It was something we did and we didn't think it
was spread. You know, we thought it was just for
around the Way, and it's you know, we feel blessed
at it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I mean that year was such a big year for
hip hop, and I mean, obviously the song changed your life.
When did you sort of start to realize that something
really big was happening with the song?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Well, when I first heard it on the radio, because
back then, if you get a rap record on the radio,
that was huge. You know, that means that the record
was going to kind of blow up most likely, And
the first time I heard it on daytime radio, I
knew right there, I said, we got something here, man,
this might go far, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And do you have a favorite place that you've heard
the song, either on a TV show or movie or
is there a place like a grocery store or something
that you've heard the song that just felt really fun
and random?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, favorite, I definitely got to say the radio radio
because once I heard the radio, it was it was
so exciting just to hear your song on the radio
is especially, you know, coming from you know, just struggling
for a few years trying to get to record on
the radio, and then you finally get one. That was
the biggest for me.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know, how did the record come out?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
We had recorded it and then we signed Profile Records
and they, you know, at that time, they were one
of the big rap labels. They had run DMC and
a few other big groups, and you know, once they
heard it, you know, an R I think his name
was Brian Chin. Yeah, he believed in the record and
they put the record out and it took a little
(21:18):
while before it caught on, but when it did, it
caught on really big.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But you said that you made it for Harlem and
the Bronx. What kind of record were you thinking about
making when you made it?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well, this is something you know that you know, DJs
would play at a party, you know, something that they
would play on play at the party. When it first
come on, like people jump up and dance. That's why
you know, we started it with this slow intro and
then we came in with to hit it, and the
beat hit so hard that you know, once it come on,
people just started dancing. So it was kind of like
just basically a party record, party record to make people
(21:49):
get on the dance floor, you know, still does.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, and I know the video is such a love
letter to that as well. Can you tell me a
little bit about what it was like to film the
video When he did, they.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Didn't want to give us a video, so we had
to shoot the video on our own, So we put
up our own money and we got a camera. We
had a guy we met that had a camera and
he knew how to shoot videos a little bit, and
we went to one hundred and twenty fifth Street in Harlem,
set up, shot right there, went into a couple of stores.
We just started filming. We just was filming, and then
people started to come jump in the video. We seen
(22:20):
Bizmocky across the street. He came across and got in
the video. Red Alert was walking by. He jumped in
the video. People got behind us. It just happened like that.
It was no script. We just did it the way
we did it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It was such an exciting and free time in hip hop.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes it was, Yes, it was.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
What was it like hearing the innovation that was going
on in eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
One thing about hip hop at that time, everybody had
a different style, Like it wasn't no one rapper sounding
like another rapper. So everybody like if you heard run DMC,
you knew who that was. You heard Nick Daddy Kane,
you know who that was. Dougy Fresh note, everybody had
their own style. So it was just like it was
a great time in hip hop when, like I said,
the different flavors of hip hop you could get any
(23:03):
type of hip hop you want to hear. You want
some public Enemy, you got that over here. You want
some Paris One, you got that over here. You want
some broad Basis right here. You know, it was an
amazing time.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Did you think that the record would last the way
it does over time?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
No?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Wait, no, I never would have thought in a million
years that it would last as long. Because I mean
when I do concerts now, you got little kids that
wasn't even born when the record came out, and they
coming up to me singing a song. So I'm like,
I'm just like I said, I felt blessed. Man. It's
like crazy to have these little kids that know the lyrics,
you know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I mean, especially because this is for our five
hundred Greatest Songs of All Time podcast and list. I'm curious,
what are some of the songs that you think are
the greatest of all time?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Now, that's that's pretty hard for me. The greatest of
all time? I gotta say one of them got to
be Rappers Delight Sugarhill Gang, because that was one that
started at all to me. You know, I would say
the message by Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five
should be in there, I guess, and who go soul
soignic I'm going back though, you know, so Sonic cos
(24:05):
playet Rock, you know, that was another one that was huge.
And then to catch up in time, I mean, it's
just been so many. It's just so many tone low
wild things, but no ice, Ice, ice baby. You know,
it's just so many. You know, it's so many.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, like you said, hearing your record in daytime, there's
really a sense of hip hop was finally taking over
the world.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
At that time. You will only hear maybe one or
two rap records three for the most and on the
daytime radio most of the time they would play hip
hop at night. So to get your record played during
the daytime least where I was living at in New York,
that was something huge. It was huge. That mean, you
was like one of the big groups at the time,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And you mentioned how you know, having really young kids
come up and knowing the song. I mean, this song
is still so still just one of the biggest songs
of all time and also such a big influence on
a lot of young artists and a lot of music.
Where do you kind of hear at the legacy of
it takes too in music today.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think it's just one of those songs that's probably
just gonna stick around, and you know it's gonna it's
here to stay. I just see it. It's here to stay.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know. The record it turned into such an important
part of the James Brown legend and the James Brown
connection to hip hop.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Oh definitely, definitely. You know, I grew up when I
was a little kid. You know, my parents used to
always play James Brown. So he to me, James Brown
has got to be one of the founder fathers of
hip hop because you know, I believe when you hear
him sing, it sounded like he rapping most of the time,
you know, so he definitely wanted the founder fathers.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, and you got to that break before anybody else.
Everybody wanted it after you got it.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Oh yeah, I mean, but actually, let the truth be told,
they were one or two other releases that used the sample,
but they didn't use it the way I used it. So,
you know our record maybe they came out maybe two
weeks before us, but then we came right behind and
we blew it out the water.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You know, you made it just part of the universal
universal music.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, after we did it, like
a lot of rappers were coming out with the same
type of rhythm, same type beat at the wool. Yeah,
you know, so it was good. It was a good thing.
I mean actually when I first when we did the
record and when it was completed, we played it for
a few people and a lot of them were like,
I don't know about this record. It's too much woo. Yeah,
(26:29):
it's too fast.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
They had a lot of complaints about it at first,
you know, but then when it started hitting, they was like, Oh,
I knew that was going to be a hit. And
I'm looking at them like, yeah, right, look.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Thank you so much for talking about this classic record.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Thank you so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five
hundred Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by
Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by Rob Sheffield
and Brittany Spanelstve, produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale, Christian Horde,
and Gus Wenner, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music
supervision by Eric Syler.
Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Rolling Stone's hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Rob Sheffield, and we're here to shed light
on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes
them so great. This week we're going into It Takes
two by Rob Bass and DJ Easy Rock. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What an absolutely catchy song, kind of perfect.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
One of the truly great summer songs of all time. Yeah,
it was on the twenty twenty one list of the
five hundred Greatest Songs and number one sixteen.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the song was released in nineteen eighty eight. And
I was reading an interview that Rob had done with
with Rolling Stone a few years ago, kind of in
the series about how great nineteen eighty eight was for
hip hop and how their manager had basically just asked
them to work on a couple songs so they can
start maybe getting signed and start chopping around music. And
(00:55):
it started off as just a demo that they were
using to get signed, and they use this great sample
of Lynn Collins nineteen seventy two song think About It,
which has that yeah woo that sample in the background
and then it just completely changed their lives.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It changed everything. It was phenomenal. It was the epical
hip hop song of the epical hip hop summer of
nineteen eighty eight, which was such a golden age for
hip hop.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, I mean what was making nineteen eighty eight that
golden age and that kind of that best year? And
if you agree that it was the best year of
hip hop, I.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Don't know if it's the best year, but it was
definitely a golden age in that people had taken the
idea from Run DMC that you could focus the music
entirely on hip hop and make street records and that
they could cross over and be hits. But so much
of the music was going strange places that you wouldn't
have predicted. But the summer of eighty eight was a
(01:50):
time when you could turn on the radio and just
hear hip hop getting reinvented week after week, with so
many brilliant minds building on the innovation of what people
had just done. So it was this ongoing creative project
where people were constantly checking each other out and bouncing
back with a new record. So the end of the summer,
(02:10):
it Takes two was a hit all summer long. Yeah,
and it was really strange to think of it as
a top forty hit when it was so raw and uncut.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I mean this was also such a turning point,
right in terms of kind of hip hop as pop
music and kind of the opening of spaces both in
radio and on MTV of like having more of these
hip hop records played in primetime and played, you know,
on the radio beyond just like the late night mixes
that would play rap music, or MTV having this was
(02:39):
like the first year that you know, MTV.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Raps TPA yeah, summer.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I mean this was such like a turning point
of seeing this music become what was top forty pop
music and being played as equally as everything else being
played at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah. It was so crazy how hip hop was considered
a fad, almost novelty music right up till Run DMC
really defined that it could be. Well, Run DMC really
showed everybody what it could be and raising Hell from
nineteen eighty six, which was their third album, but a
phenomenal album. Yeah, Run DMC had already changed the world
(03:15):
with records like Sucker MC's and it's like that in
rock Box they were as they said, the first hip
hop group to make a street record that was for
the streets rather than the clubs. Raising hell, they proved
that it was an album format, and they showed how
flexible it was, how diverse. It was still a phenomenal album.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I mean with it takes two. I mean that song,
I mean is just like such a great kind of
catchy song that is still very much played on radio constantly,
is very much still kind of a foundational song for
in a lot of ways. I mean, what about that
song makes it so so great and kind of stand
out from the summer of eighty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, it takes two takes that James Brown break that
you mentioned, James Brown going yet and Lynn Collins going
wo and just loops it into eternity. It was at
a time when James Brown symbolized so much in pop music.
He symbolized its independence from pop, its independence from compromise,
its uncompromising blackness. And that James Brown was used in
(04:16):
this really mutated way, and that there's so much disco
in the record as well, that it's got that strafe
set it off rhythm track. Rob Basse told me once
that he was thinking of one specific roller rink in
Harlem where they used to go and skate. Yeah, and
he was thinking of a record that would affect that
particular room and what people like to skate to in
(04:37):
that particular room. So he was aiming for a really
specific building, a really specific room, a really specific crowd,
And to his surprise and to everybody's surprise, it turned
out to be a sound that the whole world wanted
a piece of.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I mean, I love the roller rink inspiration. I feel
like that's so apt for this song.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean, I mean it's just so a great dance records,
such a great hip hop record, Like I mean, the
use of the samples is so incredible and kind of
you know, just like so infectious on it. And I
mean just like the flow is I mean just like amazing.
Like it's everything that I really love about like a
really great kind of hip hop track.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Absolutely Yeah. And that records like this were dropping so fast.
Records is innovative and brilliant. So that summer you have
records by EPMD like strictly business and you've got to chill.
You've got Eric B and Rakim Follow the Leader. You've
got Public Enemy with Rebel without a pause and bring
the noise. There was so much happening in the air
(05:38):
in nineteen eighty eight that for a record like It
Takes Two, which is just a straight up street record,
to just cross over to Top forty pop, it was
unprecedented and very strange. I mean, it was very different
from run DMC when they finally made the Top forty
with a pop hit. They did it the compromising way.
They did a cover of Walk This Way Aerosmith, which
(06:01):
a song which had a really big impact on Aerosmith's
career but in many ways turned out to be not
so great for Run DMC.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, the video for the song is also really really
great outside of the They kind of had to self
finance this video basically and kind of filming outside of
the Apollo And there's like a like a bismarky like
cameo in the in the video too, of him just
like walking past or something.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, it's a total straight up Harlem street scene like
the record, and that something like this could be a hit.
You didn't have to cover a pop hit, you didn't
have to do that with the famous pop artist. You
could just do a record like this, and that was
what people wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, And I mean, are you a fan of kind
of the Rob bassed dj ez rock kind of full
discography and like, what are some what are some songs,
other songs I should check out by them?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Joy and Pain is a great one. I'm an unusually
huge fan of Rob Bass. His second album, The Incredible Bass,
which was done without DG. Easy Rock. That's a great
record as well. War is a great version of the
Motown song War. You're just talking about rap battles in
the eighties and he says, you know what, I don't
see Patty and Luther battling. But Rob Bass was someone
(07:12):
who just had this, as he put it in the song,
a real funky concept. That album, it takes two. It
had other great hits on it, like Joy and Pain. Yeah,
but it's really this one song seemed to hit at
a specific time and place and has never really gone away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, I was reading in an interview that you'd
done about how his favorite use of it was in
the Proposal. It was just like such a great scene
with it with like Sandra Bullock and Ryan and Ryan
Reynolds kind of singing the song. Like the fact that
the song is just still kind of finding new ways
to break through and kind of be in you know.
So it's in so many movies and TV shows and
also like there's a great Black Eyed Peace song that
(07:51):
samples like their version. You know. It's like, I think
it's so fascinating to kind of see this song that
obviously was so important to this like breaking point for
hip hop in this moment when hip hop was becoming
even more mainstream and being that song of the summer
that it was kind of still still being such an
important touchdowne for everyone.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's very similar to a rock sane chante song that
was huge around the same time, go On Girl, Yeah,
which is also a phenomenal song.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Love that song. That's a top song for me.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Rox Sande Chante with rhymes written by Big Daddy Kane, who,
along with Bismarquis, was also so huge in that great
hip hop explosion of eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Long Lived the Cane is one of my favorite albums
from the eighties, especially the song eight and No Half
Step in Yes to Me that was a wordsmith just
showing how far he could go to the outer extremes
and yet not making it sound complex or thorny, but
just making it rock.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, I mean especially kind of with how big this
year was, and especially how big this particular song It
Takes Two was, and kin kind of what it cracked
through at that moment in sort of radio and MTV
and kind of all these outlets that previously were more
medicine to have hip hop be played against, you know,
like next to Madonna and you know, Prince and Michael
(09:10):
Jackson and you know, all the kind of like what
seemed to be just like more kind of straightforward like
pop music, Like what sort of happened or I guess,
like what do you remember of happening in ninete eighty
nine and going forward and what this allowed for hip
hop over the next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, this was the era before sampling got really litigitious,
which really changed everything in late ninety nine especially, But
this was the era when basically people treated samples like
they were free and DJ could take a beat from
anywhere and turn it into a hitter at least turned
it into a great record. Yeah, And there was so
much creativity going around with an album, Like in early
(09:49):
eighty nine you have Dala Soul with later that year
it's the Beastie Boys with Paul's boutique, but people were
making such adventurous pastiche records with sampling, and it ended
very quickly and very horribly. The Dala Soul song was
a really minor track on Three Feet High and Rising.
It was transmitting live from Mars and it used a
(10:11):
sample of the sixties pop hit by the Turtles called
You Showed Me, who previously were not considered all that
consequential in pop history, but Dalas Hole sampled them on
their album and that was the lawsuit that really froze
that sort of creative era of anything goes sampling.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I didn't realize it was the
Turtles that kind of were the ones that broke that down.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It was the song where Dala Soul with the French lesson. Yeah,
and it's while that, you know, like so many great
Prince Paul productions, you listened to Three Feet High in
Rising now and it's still full of surprises. You still
hear so much imagination and creativity going into it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean, I love sort of the kind of
crate digging stories from all these great producers and mcs
from the eighties and early nineties, which just like how
they've on those samples and kind of just like digging
into those classic and often long lost disco and soul
records and rock records that they would just kind of
find and kind of like digging through record stories and
finding these songs that they were able to kind of
(11:12):
patch together and make a massive hit out of.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Absolutely it goes back to the old school rap battles
in the South Bronx, where DJs like Cool Hirk were
innovating the idea of taking a break and making that
the whole record, making that the whole song. Grandmaster Flash, Africa,
Bombada and cool Heart. They famously used to take the
labels off the record so other DJs couldn't peer over
(11:36):
and see what they were breaking. Africa and bab Bada
had a great quote that he liked to put on
music by the Stones or the Beatles or the Monkeys
and later tell people, yeah, you were really dancing to
that monkey's song, and people were really surprised to hear
that they had danced to a monkey zone. I do
that you could take any break and build a record
around it, but it takes too ridiculous. It just takes
(11:57):
that one brief moment in a James Brown song that
was not a crossover hit, definitely like a great digging pick, yeah,
and turned it into the basis of a whole phenomenal
record that was so influential and remains really influential.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, And what do you think it is about this
particular song? I mean, obviously, again, like this year was
so massive, and I mean there are all these incredible
songs that obviously still have so much longevity and have
still kind of maintained their popularity and still sound fresh
and still sound so, you know, influential. But I mean
with this particular song that I mean, I feel like
(12:33):
kind of just is so ingrained into everything that we like,
look here constantly. What do you think it is about
it takes two that's maintained its popularity over the years.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's just so immediate, right, You hear it and it
just grabs you right away.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's kind of hard to not
be like that. Yeah, it was just like completely intoxicated.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Absolutely, one of the great openings, yeah, in music history,
with the announcement that you're about to be a mazed
by the power of Rob Bay and DJ Easy Rock.
Then the most amazing hit it intro yeah, and just
that perfect opening where Rob Bass just says, I win
a rock right now. Yeah, And this is definitely a
song that creates the moment.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah. I mean I think, like especially with any sort
of eighties hip hop and sort of that fusion of
like dance and kind of the songs that are both
you know, club and street like this. I mean, it's
just kind of like a perfect storm of kind of
catchiness and fun that is on all these songs. Like
the song is just so much fun to listen to
and to hear.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, what do you love about eighties hip hop?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, I think like so much of the sampling
and kind of that kind of combination of like like
disco and rock and soul and all of that has
always just like really drawn me. I think just the
songs are so fun and dancy, and I think that's
always been my favorite thing. Like I just really like
I always think of that Missy Elliott outro, and I
(13:54):
think work it where She's just like, like, this is
hip hop, we love to dance. Like that outro is
like such like a kind of encapsulates so much of
what I love, especially about that sort of decade of
the birth of hip hop is how dancy it is?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, absolutely, Missie La definitely a great example of somebody
who takes that playful, creative, anything goes spirit of eighties
hip hop, and it was very much an industry that
was not trying to cross over to pop, but was
able to stand on its own terms.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I mean even just like listening back, it's like
they're so I mean, because they are so influential to
so much of what pop and hip hop would sound
like for the next couple of decades. Like, I think
it seems like so obvious that these songs like it's like,
so they should be hits. You know, it's like a
song like hearing it takes two. It's like, how are
they not? I mean, obviously, of course there's a lot
(14:46):
of reasons why a lot of hip hop artists weren't
signed just yet. But I mean it's one of those
songs where it's like this is of course this is
a big hit. Of course this song would blow up.
I mean, this is like one of the catchiest songs
ever made. It's such like a song that you immediately
need to like move your body as soon as you
hear it, and kind of hard to get out of
your head once you hear it for the first time
and just sounds like it, you know, just sounds so
fresh and like it should be the biggest song of
(15:08):
all time.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Absolutely. In the spring of nineteen eighty nine, Spin magazine
did a list of the greatest songs of all time
and this was number one. Yeah, and it really kind
of summed up what the song meant at the time
that it felt like, right now is a time of
so much creativity and so much innovation, and it takes too.
Is definitely a song that celebrates that. Yeah, it's definitely
(15:29):
a moment that captures hip hop where you could take
this minimal record. It's just a rhythm, there's no pop hook,
there's no outside instruments, and it's just minimal hip hop
for hip hop. It's never intended to cross over. But
you hear that song everywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think that it's like one
of those songs that it is very much like I
still hear it kind of like at block parties and everything.
Like I feel like every time my block has a
party in the summer, like this song is always, always,
always out on the mix.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, those run DMC records for the eighties, they always
still sound so immediate and fresh and impatient, like they
want your attention right now.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, there is like so much of that urgency to
the beat on it takes too as well, Like there
is kind of that like it's so like propulsive and
just like really kind of it's really just like really
hard to not move when you hear it. Yeah, where
do you sort of hear? The influence of it takes
to and of also rob bass and DJ easy rock.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Honestly, the idea of just taking a break and making
a whole song out of it influenced the way everybody
made music. It was a bit like the Ramones in
a way that the Ramones had this just play the
fun part of the song and make that the whole
song and do it over and over and again. But
for hip hop to just prove that you could go
so minimal and still make music that you still hear
(16:46):
weddings and parties, it's still something that is fresh and
influential on how other people make music.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, I feel like, I mean, of course, the Black
Eyed Peas song, the samples that I am a big
fan of that song body, and I mean I feel like, yeah,
so much of Obviously Missy Elliott, who I know we
both both love and have talked about this on the
show before, is so kind of had constantly been pulling
from this era of hip hop and kind of so
(17:15):
much a love letter to a song like It Takes
Two and kind of this like Year of eighty eight
kind of hip hop breaking through and kind of that
that kind of Golden Age is so influential on her.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Absolutely. Yeah. EPMD had such a huge hit that summer
with Strictly Business where they take a little bit from
I Shot the Sheriff and they loop it all the
way through the song, just this really micro minimal sliver
of the song and in a completely weird sort of transcendence.
They don't even use the Bob Marlee version. They use
the Eric Clapton version, And it sounds so wild to
(17:48):
take this little bit of a rock version of a
reggae song and just loop it into this elemental hip
hop beat. Yeah, but to me that records like that
sum up the spirit of that period and hip hop
and what made it a real Golden Age.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, for sure. Next we'll be joined by Rob Bass.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, thank you, this record is a classic.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Where does a record like this come from?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well, I mean it was definitely like a last minute thing.
You know, me and DJ Easy Rock had to be
in the studio that night, you know, to go and
work on something. We ain't really have nothing ready, So
we went to one of our homeboy's house and he
played a bunch of records for us and we was like, yo,
I like that. He said, you know, he like this,
and we just took both of the records and went
to the studio put them both together, and that's how
(18:35):
we came up with It Takes two.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, I'm curious. How how did you and easy Rock
originally meet and kind of connect and start making music together.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, we met in public school, grade school. I think
it was fifth grade. Yeah, we met in fifth grade,
and we used to always play you know, softball together,
and we hung together. And then you know, once the
hip hop things started, you know, coming in to play,
you know, we just got into that. So it was
like it was actually like seven of us, and we
was a group called a Short Shot seven when we
first started. And then you know, as time went on,
(19:06):
you know, people just broke off and then me and
him just stuck together and kept going.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that
musical chemistry that the two of you have and had
and when you sort of realized that the two of
you were creating something really special.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You know, we used to go to all of the
block parties and skating rinks and listen to what people
were dancing to, and we just came up we said,
hey man, we got to get something to make people
party and dance. So, you know, we got in the
studio and we saw certain you know, beats and rhythms
that they used to dance to, and we just try
to come up with that same type of vibe and
(19:38):
we was actually able to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
You know, the record. It was wild that it became
such a huge hit, even though it's so street.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, because we definitely we made it for the We
made it for a Harlem and the Bronx. Basically, we
didn't know it would go worldwide.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It was something we did and we didn't think it
was spread. You know, we thought it was just for
around the Way, and it's you know, we feel blessed
at it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I mean that year was such a big year for
hip hop, and I mean, obviously the song changed your life.
When did you sort of start to realize that something
really big was happening with the song?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Well, when I first heard it on the radio, because
back then, if you get a rap record on the radio,
that was huge. You know, that means that the record
was going to kind of blow up most likely, And
the first time I heard it on daytime radio, I
knew right there, I said, we got something here, man,
this might go far, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And do you have a favorite place that you've heard
the song, either on a TV show or movie or
is there a place like a grocery store or something
that you've heard the song that just felt really fun
and random?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, favorite, I definitely got to say the radio radio
because once I heard the radio, it was it was
so exciting just to hear your song on the radio
is especially, you know, coming from you know, just struggling
for a few years trying to get to record on
the radio, and then you finally get one. That was
the biggest for me.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know, how did the record come out?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
We had recorded it and then we signed Profile Records
and they, you know, at that time, they were one
of the big rap labels. They had run DMC and
a few other big groups, and you know, once they
heard it, you know, an R I think his name
was Brian Chin. Yeah, he believed in the record and
they put the record out and it took a little
(21:18):
while before it caught on, but when it did, it
caught on really big.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But you said that you made it for Harlem and
the Bronx. What kind of record were you thinking about
making when you made it?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well, this is something you know that you know, DJs
would play at a party, you know, something that they
would play on play at the party. When it first
come on, like people jump up and dance. That's why
you know, we started it with this slow intro and
then we came in with to hit it, and the
beat hit so hard that you know, once it come on,
people just started dancing. So it was kind of like
just basically a party record, party record to make people
(21:49):
get on the dance floor, you know, still does.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, and I know the video is such a love
letter to that as well. Can you tell me a
little bit about what it was like to film the
video When he did, they.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Didn't want to give us a video, so we had
to shoot the video on our own, So we put
up our own money and we got a camera. We
had a guy we met that had a camera and
he knew how to shoot videos a little bit, and
we went to one hundred and twenty fifth Street in Harlem,
set up, shot right there, went into a couple of stores.
We just started filming. We just was filming, and then
people started to come jump in the video. We seen
(22:20):
Bizmocky across the street. He came across and got in
the video. Red Alert was walking by. He jumped in
the video. People got behind us. It just happened like that.
It was no script. We just did it the way
we did it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It was such an exciting and free time in hip hop.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes it was, Yes, it was.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
What was it like hearing the innovation that was going
on in eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
One thing about hip hop at that time, everybody had
a different style, Like it wasn't no one rapper sounding
like another rapper. So everybody like if you heard run DMC,
you knew who that was. You heard Nick Daddy Kane,
you know who that was. Dougy Fresh note, everybody had
their own style. So it was just like it was
a great time in hip hop when, like I said,
the different flavors of hip hop you could get any
(23:03):
type of hip hop you want to hear. You want
some public Enemy, you got that over here. You want
some Paris One, you got that over here. You want
some broad Basis right here. You know, it was an
amazing time.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Did you think that the record would last the way
it does over time?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
No?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Wait, no, I never would have thought in a million
years that it would last as long. Because I mean
when I do concerts now, you got little kids that
wasn't even born when the record came out, and they
coming up to me singing a song. So I'm like,
I'm just like I said, I felt blessed. Man. It's
like crazy to have these little kids that know the lyrics,
you know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I mean, especially because this is for our five
hundred Greatest Songs of All Time podcast and list. I'm curious,
what are some of the songs that you think are
the greatest of all time?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Now, that's that's pretty hard for me. The greatest of
all time? I gotta say one of them got to
be Rappers Delight Sugarhill Gang, because that was one that
started at all to me. You know, I would say
the message by Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five
should be in there, I guess, and who go soul
soignic I'm going back though, you know, so Sonic cos
(24:05):
playet Rock, you know, that was another one that was huge.
And then to catch up in time, I mean, it's
just been so many. It's just so many tone low
wild things, but no ice, Ice, ice baby. You know,
it's just so many. You know, it's so many.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, like you said, hearing your record in daytime, there's
really a sense of hip hop was finally taking over
the world.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
At that time. You will only hear maybe one or
two rap records three for the most and on the
daytime radio most of the time they would play hip
hop at night. So to get your record played during
the daytime least where I was living at in New York,
that was something huge. It was huge. That mean, you
was like one of the big groups at the time,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And you mentioned how you know, having really young kids
come up and knowing the song. I mean, this song
is still so still just one of the biggest songs
of all time and also such a big influence on
a lot of young artists and a lot of music.
Where do you kind of hear at the legacy of
it takes too in music today.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think it's just one of those songs that's probably
just gonna stick around, and you know it's gonna it's
here to stay. I just see it. It's here to stay.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know. The record it turned into such an important
part of the James Brown legend and the James Brown
connection to hip hop.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Oh definitely, definitely. You know, I grew up when I
was a little kid. You know, my parents used to
always play James Brown. So he to me, James Brown
has got to be one of the founder fathers of
hip hop because you know, I believe when you hear
him sing, it sounded like he rapping most of the time,
you know, so he definitely wanted the founder fathers.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, and you got to that break before anybody else.
Everybody wanted it after you got it.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Oh yeah, I mean, but actually, let the truth be told,
they were one or two other releases that used the sample,
but they didn't use it the way I used it. So,
you know our record maybe they came out maybe two
weeks before us, but then we came right behind and
we blew it out the water.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You know, you made it just part of the universal
universal music.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, after we did it, like
a lot of rappers were coming out with the same
type of rhythm, same type beat at the wool. Yeah,
you know, so it was good. It was a good thing.
I mean actually when I first when we did the
record and when it was completed, we played it for
a few people and a lot of them were like,
I don't know about this record. It's too much woo. Yeah,
(26:29):
it's too fast.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
They had a lot of complaints about it at first,
you know, but then when it started hitting, they was like, Oh,
I knew that was going to be a hit. And
I'm looking at them like, yeah, right, look.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Thank you so much for talking about this classic record.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Thank you so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five
hundred Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by
Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by Rob Sheffield
and Brittany Spanelstve, produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale, Christian Horde,
and Gus Wenner, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music
supervision by Eric Syler.
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