March 19, 2024 • 45 mins
There is a well-known cartoon in The New Yorker magazine depicting President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in his pyjamas, on his knees next to his bed, saying a prayer for his wife, the most active first lady in history. ‘Dear Lord, please make Eleanor tired tomorrow’. I can imagine the friends and family of Stephen Fry saying the same prayer, for there's very little Stephen doesn't do.
Actor, comedian, television host, director, a prolific writer with four novels, three autobiographies and countless columns in national papers. But should you ask, as I've been doing, the people who know him really well. What Stephen is best at, they will answer, being a friend. As for me, I love this man. All he stands for, and quite simply who he is.
And I would change the FDR prayer. I would say, ‘Dear Lord, we all need Stephen Fry. Please do not make him tired tomorrow’.
Listen to Ruthie’s Table 4: Stephen Fry in partnership with Moncler – out now.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
There is a well known cartoon in the New Yorker
magazine depicting President Franklin Eleanor Roosevelt in his pajamas on
his knees next to his bed, saying a prayer for
(00:20):
his wife, the most active first lady in history. Dear Lord,
please make Eleanor tired tomorrow. I can imagine the friends
and family of Stephen Frye saying the same prayer. For
there is very little Stephen doesn't do. Actor, comedian, television host, director,
prolific writer with four novels, three autobiographies, and countless columns
(00:44):
in national papers. But should you ask, as I've been doing,
the people who know him really well, what Stephen is
best at, they will answer being a friend. As for me,
I love this man, all he stands for, and quite
say who he is, and I would change FDR's prayer.
I would say, Dear Lord, we all need Stephen fry
(01:08):
Please do not make him tired tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Ruth, I don't know what to say. You're going to
have to tiptoe out of the room now. I can't
possibly live up to such an introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So I'm sitting here in the River Cafe in our
New Sylvia's dining room. So shall we read the recipe
for the polenta and almond cake.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So here is the recipe or receipt, as upper class
people used to say, we.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Have torta di manoli mandole.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Of course he's also you know those pictures that the
Renaissance artists did of a face in a in a
frame that has a point at the top and a
point at the bottom, a sort of point. They call
that a mandola because it's the shape of an almond. Yeah, anyway,
tooni polenta almond and lemon cake. This serves ten or right,
(02:00):
So have you got your pencils out and you're licking them?
These first three dry ingredients are grapes, the same quantity
four hundred and fifty grams of unsalted butter. That's not
a dry ingredient, stephen softened. So remember in the morning,
first thing, take the butter out of the fridge. Four
hundred and fifty grams of casta sugar, four hundred and
fifty grounds of ground almonds, six of your finest eggs,
(02:25):
the zest of four lemons, and the juice of one lemon,
then two hundred and twenty grams of polent of flour,
one teaspoonful of baking powder. I never really know the
difference between baking powder and by carbonate of soda. There
is a huge difference. I'm being told in my ear
by my expert. So it's baking powder. Don't substitute with
(02:48):
anything else, baking soda or anything. So one teaspoonful of
baking powder, quarter a teaspoonful of salt. You will have
preheated the oven at this point two one hundred and
sixty degrees centigrade, I would say one hundred and forty
or fifty fan. Then butter and flour, a thirty centimeter
cake tin, which I hope you have lying handily around.
(03:10):
Beat the butter and sugar together until it becomes pale
and light, and that really does happen. The butter is
good British butter, yellow to start with. But it's amazing
how as it beats and beats and the sugar gets
released into it, it does become notably lighter. And that's
your signal to add the ground almonds. Then you stir
to combine them, and then you add the eggs one
at a time, and beat the mixture through. Fold in
(03:34):
the lemon zest, the lemon juice. The smell will rise
up into your nostrils. Then the polenta, which gives the
cake its major name, of course, the baking powder, and
the salt spoon. The mixture that then is now nice
and smooth into your prepared tin, and you bake in
the preheated oven for forty five to fifty minutes or
until set. I guess the old toothpick taste test will do,
(03:57):
and the cake will be deep brown on top. That
that's a cue. It's delicious on its own, as I
can absolutely testify. With a cappuccino perhaps, or a glass
of vincanto.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And when in season here.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
At this place of joy, the River Cafe, it says
we caramelize blood oranges. Can you imagine what you're doing
this morning, Darning, I'm caramelizing some blood oranges. It reminds
me of wonderful Les Dawson, the Northern comedian. Well, I
can't stop chapping. I've got a cape on to baste,
I've got sausages to prick and so on. Anyway, I've
(04:34):
I've got blood oranges to caramelize, and you serve that
with the cake, and you just couldn't do better. It's
one of the great great recipes.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think that if I, even in the last four minutes,
I have now understood that you are a great cook.
You're a great eater, but you are you know, are
your passionate cook. Would you describe yourself? Tell me about cooking?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was. I had a strange shout, and which was in.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It sounds if I said, it sounds like it's I
don't know, Downton Abby or something that it really wasn't.
But my parents did have a cook, and we had gardeners,
and we had an old fashioned Victorian kitchen garden, and
so I was used to the fact that every day
the gardeners would come to the back door and missus Risebro,
the cook, would select some of the vegetables or tell
(05:21):
them to go off and get something else, depending on
what she was cooking. And I would hang around, age
five or something watching her. I'd see her do things
like I mean, she was what used to be called
a good English plane cook. So she didn't do anything
terribly fancy, but everything she did was just right. Pies
and tarts and things like that. She was very good
at and she would take her thumb and put little
(05:44):
squares of pastry on it and pull them back to
make a rose that would go in the center of
pies and things, so little touches. Yeah, and she made
pork pies she made, oh yeah, basically anything but you
couldn't make she made. We had a game larder and
a things and so we'd have birds hung and things
like that.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Sounds good, missus riber she was one. Would they entertain,
Oh yeah, they were, and they were very social.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes, my mother would do dinner parties and when I
was young, and up until I was about twelve fourteen,
maybe that the there would be dinner jackets and black
tie and the men would be left alone by the
women in the dining room.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So that's, you know, that tradition that's still going the women.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
The men's stayed the women withdrew.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And I remember my mother saying. My mother read history.
She was was she was a history graduates, and she
taught it occasionally. And I would say to her, white
the men stay behind, and I think someone had said
to me, so they can tell dirty jokes that women
don't hear.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
My mother said, no.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know what it is really, she said the Victorians,
the women did not like drawing attention to the fact
that they had to use lavatries. So if they all
went in one go, they would go up to the lavatries,
use avatures together and then get down into the drawing
room and they'd be sitting there. But if everybody went
into the drawing room together after the meal and the
(07:08):
women said I'm going to go now, everyone go, oh,
she's off for a piss. And so it was just
a discreet way of women having that chance to do
that without being noticed, as it were.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And so you have your memories are of home and
good food and a care for food.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Because my mother had food. I won't say issues, but
she would drive the gardener's mad because she'd go out
when the peas were ready and she would just eat
the entire crop of peas.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Out of the pod. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I remember one sitting on a railway train and we're
going from one small town in Italy to another, and
we'd go into the market and bought some peas, and
we had children with us, and we were all eating
the raw peas on the train carriage. Italians went mad.
I mean, the idea of eating a raw piece. Those
people were sitting at it, and we could have taken
(08:02):
off all our clothes and had more respect than giving
our children raw pies out of it. But what's more delicious?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Raw pie?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And we make a salad?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Do you ever have?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know, you can make a salad with delicious.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
But the other thing is that it was natural because
of the kitchen garden was everything was in season, so
you know, and there were fruit trees, you know, trained
against the outbuildings, plum trees and things like that. And
there were goosberry bushes and raspberry and black currants, and
four fantastic asparagus beds raised asparagus beds Belgian asparagus, quite
(08:41):
small and delicate asparagus. And my mother had constant war
with the gardeners because well she had this theory and
that you shouldn't eat asparagus after ascot mid June something
like that. I don't know anyway, she'd heard that somewhere
or been told that, and she of course was desperate
(09:02):
to get hold of Once the asperancy was getting all
the ferns would come up, and she loved it for
flower rangings.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
She sounds amazing, She is sounds like she's still here,
she's ninety two. Because that I do think that inner
knowledge and passion for the garden, for the ferns, for
the seasonality of saying. And there is a very short
season for good asparagus Taska. It is there isn't you know?
(09:31):
In Paris one minute you'd go down to the market
and you know, there were white asparagus and green asparagus
and thin aspects, and then they were gone, and we're
just gone. And I think it's here as well. And
they do come from Norfolk.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yes they do.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But the criminal thing now, I think in some ways
is people don't understand that you can store fresh fruit
and vegetables. We had outhouses and there would be newspaper
and potatoes, and when we lifted all the potatoes and
there there'd be and they'd last all the way through
as long as it was dark and cool, which naturally
(10:03):
would be being an outhouse. And the same with apples
and pears. They lost forever.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Your parents were interested in food come from their cultural.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
My mother, yes, my father lesson. My father just did
everything that was put in front of him, and his
mind was on his work. He was a scientist. But
my mother was from a Jewish family, and Jews always
compared to the British in those days less so now
were obsessed with food, partly because in some cases they
knew poverty between the walls when things were really short
(10:33):
in Vienna and in Hungary, where my grandparents came from.
My grandfather was a good cook, and I remember, yeah,
he made the most beautiful sort of dill and cucumber
salads and things, and I really got a taste for
that kind of Central European flavor from him, things like
cucumbers and so on, which are very Central European polition,
(10:54):
hungering and other such things. And spicy, spicy, but not
in not like Indian or Mexican food spicy, but in
that sort of paprika spiciness, which I'm very fond of.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
My grandparents were Hungarian. One side were Russian Jews who
left Russia, and the other were Hungarian Jews that left Hungary.
They came to the United States as part of the
Ellis Island in Flux in nineteen probably fifteen, right really early.
They got it early. So growing up in this household,
(11:27):
going to you then went away to school at age seven,
and was that a food shark as well as a
home shock.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We grew up in Norfolk, and obviously my mother wouldn't
force me to eat anything I hated. And they arrived
at this prep school aged seven, which is in Gloucestershire,
two hundred miles right year was this, This is in
nineteen sixty four, and there are things like semolina and
tapioca hot milk puddings. Something about milk that's been boiled
(11:59):
makes me actually kick, makes me a dry heave. And
I saw these and I said, no, no, I can't,
I can't. And they forced it, literally holding my nose
like like a hunger strike thing. It was cruel in
those days, but of course you know it happened to
other boys, so you just think this is this is life.
But I really and I forced myself to throw up
at the table so that they stopped doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And and it forced yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
And it was written down Stephen Fry or Fry s
probably or Fry Junior because my brother was there, allergic
to hot milk.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Clever to figure out what to do.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, but it was I mean, it was all I
would say to Kensian. But it was a world of
chill blains and constipation and cold, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I mean the way they heated.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
A dormitory was just to have a hot pipe running
along the bottom, you know, no radiators or anything, and
so it.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Wasn't jud desperately.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I mean, yes, very much. So what it does
I've spoken about this before, and what it does is
you start to obsess about sweets. There's a touch shop
in the school. We are called the touch shop. Tuck
is the school slang for goodies for confectionery. And you
start to get really obsessed with when the touch shop
can to be opened and how much pocket money you've
(13:15):
got to buy these things. And this was the golden
age of confectionery. Cabri was producing new things like curly
whirleyon and Aztec bars, and there were these amazing you know,
foam shrimps and flying sauces made of rice paper and
fruit salads four for a penny and black jacks four
for a penny. And I became so obsessed that I
(13:37):
would start breaking out of school bunds and going to
the village shop. And it was in Gloucestershire, a little
village called Yuli, and I would spend whatever money I
had on getting those sweets, and it became a kind
of obsession that my teeth suffered by. You know, by
the time I was twelve, I was having huge amounts
of fillings and even having teeth out. But also interesting
(14:00):
and this is you know, I'm not using an excuse,
but a lot of it was preparation for smoking. There
were these coconut shredded brown fake tobaccos in a little
wax paper with a Spanish galleon on it, which was
like rolling tobacco. There were these candy cigarettes that you
would have licorice.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes, that's it, liquor.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
They were and in sort of fake Chesterfield packs softly
looked exactly like Chesterfield or something, or camel and licorice pipes,
and so they were getting you ready, well like pipe
smoker's pipe made out of a licorice. Yeah, and even
more sort of weirdly, the glamour of the white powder Sherbert,
(14:45):
so you'd suck it up through a licorice straw and
a Sherbert fountain. So it was preparing you for a
life to come.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
So you then go from the you know, when you
were fourteen or fifteen, you go for the real cigarettes
and smoking, and then when you're a little bit older
than that, the real white power.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
It's a terrible thought.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm not excusing it or saying that it was the
school's fault that I, in later life did become something
of an addict.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was even not to interrupt your story, but I
was going to say that culturally, if your parents were
Hungarian Jews background of that, did going to boarding school
come easier to them?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So my parents are both bought it all their time
as children, so there was no Yeah, there was nothing.
And you have to remember, if you're thinking how coral
to send a child away at the age of seven,
if that seven year old child has other friends as
I did in the Norfolk countryside, they were all boys
who were also going to go to school. And then
when you get to the prep school, obviously everyone's in
(15:41):
the same boat. So you just think this is what
life is like. You don't think this is so unfair.
There are people who are not going to boarding schools.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
You just think you might not.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, this is another discussion. You might not think it,
the child might not think it, but the parents might
think yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And I was aware that because because we would go
my mother and I from Norwich by train and breakfast
on the train. You know, it was so good because
they had these silver they did silver service. They had
stewards in short white little tops, tunics whatever, and they
would you know, the silver service in the sense they
(16:16):
would use a spoon and a fork in the same
hand and they could definitely put the bacon on a train,
egg on a train exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And we got to know them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Then they would recognize us and say, oh, school again,
young man, is it and all that, you know, We
would get the train and then we'd spend a day
in London. Sometimes we'd have lunch with my grandfather.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
At the walled Doff or the hotel. Yeah, that's sort
of ver. He liked the yeah, the big yeah there
you go in there.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That's what you got their dances.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So that's a nice hotel.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And and then go to Paddington and that's where my
heart wouldtart to sink and flutter a bit because you'd
see at the end of the platform on boys in
these straw hats that we call boaters, and that was
the school compartment. But then you'd notice, or I'd noticed
that my mother was crying. She was trying not to
(17:11):
so touchy. It's making me moove now because you know,
everyone thinking how cruel of parents, but they don't want
to lose their child, but they just feel that's the
right thing for them.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You stayed in school till.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh ah, well, now we don't have enough time to
cover the chapters of disaster, do we. I went from
prep school. Prep school in England is age seven, which
is the youngest, and two thirteen, and then you would
take what was called a common entrance exam, which.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Was for public schools.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I private schools, and I went to private school called
Oppingham and my behavior was dreadful.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And then worst of all, I fell in love with
a boy.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And I was so confused by this, so absolutely astonished
by the power of the emotion, the sheer power that
you could be obsessed for twenty four hours a day
and of nothing else and change your walking habits. So
you would bump into this person and knowing just phenomenal obsession,
not really sexual even I was, you know, just something overwhelming.
(18:13):
Was it reciprocated eventually there was a nice moment, but yeah, yeah,
it threw me completely and certainly threw my concentration away.
But the actual casus bellies, I think well, and should
say the cause of the war, the originating disaster was.
(18:36):
I was a member, the youngest member of the Sherlock
Holmes Society of London, and I got permissioned from my
housemaster to go to a meeting of the Society in
London in some grand club, and I read a paper,
I delivered a paper, and the idea was that the
next I was staying overnight at the club and the
(18:56):
next morning I would take a train back to school. Well,
the next morning I went to a cinema. In those days,
cinemas would sort of start a program at ten in
the morning or something, and then just you could stay
in the same cinema and what the same film again
and again. And the film was Cabaret, and I was
completely obsessed with it. I just never seen anything like it.
It was fantastic. And then chose it, yeah, I mean
(19:20):
almost randomly, not knowing what it was or anything about it,
not naying you know about Christi Riischewood or Eliza Beannelly
or any of the sort of background to it. And
then I wandered in the days to another cinema and
there was a clock whek Orange was on and unfortunately
I was although I was fourteen and a half, I
could pass as X, which was eighteen, I guess, and
because being tall, I suppose. And so there were there
(19:42):
were three or four films, I think The Godfather as well,
and Fritz the Cat, which was a sort of pornographic cartoon.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Mem do you remember.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
So four days past?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
You stayed four days?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And was anybody out searching?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yes? And there were terrified and they didn't know what
had happened to me, and they'd run away. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And then I kind of came to in a sort
of days and went back to the school. There was
a lot of folded arms and tapping of feet on
the carpet.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And will anybody call the police?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well they had done, yes, they reported me as missing
after three days. I think whatever it was, so, yeah,
it was just a disaster. And I remember getting in
the car with my parents because I was expelled from
the school, and my father saying the words, we will
talk about this sorry incident when we get home.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Sorry, sorry incident. It was a sorry incident.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Did you know? The River Cafe has a shop. It's
full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks,
and linen, Napkins, kitchen ware, toad bags with our signatures,
glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can find us
right next door to the River Cafe in London or
online at shop the River Cafe dot co dot UK.
(21:10):
When you went to Cambridge, what was the food like there?
Then you were away from both the boarding school and
you were away from your parents. Could you create your
own food world more?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yes, there were some students got friendly with who really
understood food.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Did you cook for yourself at Cambridge? Or was that hard?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
If you were in college, you had your rooms and
you had what was called a jip room, which was
like a little kitchen, but it didn't really have a
proper oven or anything, so you couldn't do much there.
But because of the acting, I would, in particular after
the May term, which is like the summer term at Cambridge,
when it was over, I would stay on to rehearse
(21:50):
with friends all the plays we were taking up to Edinburgh.
And then one might stay at totally different places and
I stayed with it rather than in your college, because
your college would be given ever to conferences and things
like that, and they wouldn't let you stay there. So
I remember staying with friends, and one of these friends, Ben,
who was really good. He taught me the mill pois
that the preparation for almost anything, you know, the carrots,
(22:11):
the celery and chopping them up, and.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Called the Italian cooking Sofrito.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Exactly exactly, and he's the basis of everything from Bologniers upwards,
as it were. And so I really enjoyed learning that
and seeing how all that worked. And he showed me
as well what I now know is called deglazing, you
know how you had I say, everything's stuck, and he
goes he take a glass of wine and just throw
it on, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Getting, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And then it would all just come into life, and
you know, he had that confidence.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So was he really the first person to do he.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Kind of was. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
He taught me not to be afraid and not to
have to follow every syllable on a page, because once
you knew the principle of certain kinds of cooking, you
could just then do very Oh we haven't got any
that with his fish instead, but.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It says it's for lambs. That's all right, you know,
and you just sort of take that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I was saying cooking is a bit like poetry. You know,
you have to know the real poetry to go to
free verse.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yes, exactly, once you know the fourteen line Sonnet, you
can then exactly escape the prison of the form. But
it was really when I left Cambridge I was so
fortunate because you know our comedy stuff I was doing
with Hugh Lori and Emma.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Thompson one prize comedy.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
What it was, cameridt to this club called the Footlights
which is well over one hundred years old and it
sort of specializes in comedy. I say it is whoever
the undergraduates are at the time who happened to be
members of the club. But it famously had Peter Cook
and John Clees and Eric Idel and the Grifflies Jones
(23:50):
and Douglas Adams and Clive James and all Baron Margerleyesyes,
Stephen and then Stephen Frown, Hi Luri and Emma Thompson.
We were all one bunch and we went to Edinburgh
and we won this new prize called the Perrier Award
for Comedy, and this involved going to Australia. Well sort
of it didn't. The prize didn't, but because we won.
(24:10):
It's an Australian entrepreneur called Michael Edgeley saw our show
and then said, you guys want to come out to Australia.
And that's where I learned to eat because it was
an absolute revelation. This is nineteen eighty one, starting in Sydney.
Doyle's of course, the amazing seafood place. You walk along
the dunes and come to this beautiful shack where the
(24:31):
food is well, things you've never heard of, like Barry
Mundy and Morton bay bugs and all these extraordinary seafood things.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
But also oysters.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I mean, oyster is so plentiful and not oh my goodness,
I'm having oysters. I must be in Bentley's or in
you know some posh you know London restaurant that does oysters.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But it was, yeah, I have some oysters, mane.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I mind Rockefeller or Killpatrick, you know these different ways
of preparing them. Kill Patrick because of the mind, because
it involved was thesaurce.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I became really obsessed with oysters and would have
and they were cheap sometimes you could.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
That's the point.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I have some plump half a dozen plump specific oysteres
not cooked, and then half a dozen cooked more neat
Rockefeller and Kilpatrick with.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
The one with bacon to kill Patrick. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And and there were cheapest, cheapest chips, as people say so.
And wine was the other thing I finally moved off
the lampres.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
We haven't talked about that, yeah, because they.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Had things like Grange Hermitage, which at the time was
good but nothing like as expensive as it is now.
Three or four hundred pound a bottle at least, isn't it.
But they you know this, They had this way of
categorizing wines which is so ridiculously obvious but was unheard
of by grape Vlatal. So they would say this is
(25:58):
a sheers, you know, and and this is you know,
Kevin I Servignon, and this is a semon whatever. And
they'd tell you about.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
The grape and you go, oh, I see.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Then you get back to England and every restaurant just
a shadowed nerve to this shadow that, and you get
what does that mean? But when I got back to England.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
We were like for two months and.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Traveling everywhere all the big cities, in some of the
crazy little towns like Albury, Wodonga, eating fabulous food cheaply
and happily.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And the whole day.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Really was around the fact we'd finished the show and
what restaurant we're going to And but when I got
back to England, I was wandering around. So we were
doing a TV show and I was feeling lucky and
flushed with cash relatively compared to being a student, but
not very rich. And I was wondering, to say, when
I was getting lost, as you do, and before you
understand that, what's the cross street?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And you know?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And so I was going down this street called Greek
Street and I saw on attractive looking restaurant and the
restaurant was called Let's Gargo the Snail, and I wandered
in and this fabulous woman about three foot tall came
up to me and said hello, dear, and I said, oh,
it was obviously very nervous. She said you come with
me and she sat me down. You'll know who I'm
talking about, Ellen Salvatina, this amazing woman, phenomenal, and she
(27:21):
sat me down and I said, I'm not and she
chose for me, somehow brilliantly, things that were just cheap
enough for me to be able to afford. And so
from then on the richer I got the luckier I got,
I would go there. And this was in the high
days of Let's Cargo. We know Princess Diana. We'd go
and all these people. But most importantly again.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It was.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Chancey's Robinson's husband Lander, his name was Nick Lander, who
ran Let's Go Go and Jancey's Robinson's Great Wine created
great the first woman to be made of Master of Wine.
Fabulous person and she made the wine list varietal. So
it was the first, I think probably in London to
(28:04):
be like that where it was, and gosh, I had
some marvelous times there, absolutely amazingly recognized someone.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
We became very good friends.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
She then moved to Lettual in Charlotte Street, and her
husband Aldo was a fat fascinating man as well, because
they lived in Noel Road in Islington in the nineteen
sixties year and their neighbor their neighbors were a gay
couple called Kenneth Halliwell and Joe Orton, and it was
Aldo who there was a they'd heard some shouting and
(28:35):
then the next day they were worried and and and
Eleanor had said, how's what's what's up with Joe and Aldo?
And she looked through the keyhole and saw him dead,
and Alder had to break down the door, and of
course Kenneth Halliwell had killed his lover and then himself,
so she never forgot that. But I remember once, for example,
(28:56):
I was having dinner there with Ron Atkins and my
friend Rowan, the wonderful Great. Yeah, let's go and go upstairs.
And Rowan is the most wonderful person in the world.
But he is not a late night figure at all
in those days.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I quite was.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So we'd had dinner and it was like holp Us
nine and said, right, well, I'm I'll get a cab
and go home. And I thought, oh, well, I'll do
the same. So I ordered a cab. His cab came first,
and I was just about to leave it, and I said,
could you go and cheer up John Hurt. He's just
left his wife and he's was all very unhappy and
(29:32):
he needs a bit of cheering up. So I sat
down and there was John had you know, I sit
down and every now and again and said your CAB's
still here. I said, oh, tell him, I'll be five minutes.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, it's five minutes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We were getting home and the cab bill was two
hundred and twenty pounds. And I saw John about a
week later and said, I have told everyone I got
hurt on Thursday night, and he said, well, I told
everyone I got fried. I got to know them even
better later because he moved to Norfolk.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Was Europe at all an influence? Did you travel to
France or Italy or did you do Greece? Was there
any food experience from being in Europe?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Just as I was really beginning to love food, I
went with Rowan, whom I mentioned ron Atkinson had bought
a new Western Martin and he said, I really think
we should try this out. And so we booked ourselves
an amazing holiday, going all the way down France through
basically through as many three star, three Michelin star restaurants,
(30:43):
so mioneise in outside Leon and Chappelle's restaurant thing, and
then down to the Moujen restaurants outside Cannes, you know
in the column door, which is not through star, but
it's one of the greatest.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Restaurants in the world.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Oh that menu.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
People who don't know it's up from up from cann
in the hills and it's this beautiful, beautiful place. It's
like your ideal image of a promo soul house with
the tiles and everything else, but it has added to
it these extraordinary pieces on the walls by Matisse and
others and mirror and yeah, that's right, these extraordinary paintings
(31:21):
because the original patron and his wife would allow the
artists to give pictures instead of paying the bills. And
it has since become, you know, one of the great
restaurants of the world. Really it's it's atmosphere and for
all its fame and uh, you know, they're not necessarily
easy to get a table, especially during the Canned Film
(31:41):
Festival or something. It is the friendliest, warmest place. It's really,
you know, like all these good places there, you might
think they're going to be frightened the river. Under the river,
you won't find people looking snooterly at you at all.
It's the opposite of good restaurant to have snootiness, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
When I boat you couple of months ago, you were
talking about your schedule and a lot of it was
around being in London or being in Los Angeles. And
I think that California is so interesting in terms of
going back to Alice Walters and food farm to table
and restaurants like Wolfgang Pugs, Mamaison becoming Spago where he
(32:21):
made pizzas, and now the very kind of healthy eating
of California. And I think if we're talking about a
kind of food culture, would you say that in Los
Angeles you're finding a certain type of food culture unquestionably.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And one of the interesting things is people picture Los
Angeles and they think of smart movie people. And obviously
there are a lot of movie people, but the food
culture is driven from below, and the smart movie people
follow it. And over the last ten years, the major
thing has been street food food trucks, which a lot
(32:56):
of British people when you would say to them, all,
look there's a fish taco truck. Let's going to have
that lunch, I'll go crazy. Is it hygieniic? You know?
I mean, there's sort of weird British idea that a
food truck couldn't live up to a restaurant. And very
often the que is the indication. You'll see a big
line and you'll know that's a good one, and you
make a note in your head next time I'm driving
(33:16):
down here, I'll go and try try what they've got.
And they and there's that side of things. Of course,
there's the glamorous side of places. The movie people go. Yeah,
the Polo Lounge and it's like Craigs. Now you'll always
see a Kardashian in there if you want to. And again,
you know, because they're the paparazzi outside and what in
(33:39):
America they call videographers who are called TMZ the this
kind of news channel.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Gossip news channel.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
But the quality of food is good for you know,
good for vegans and vegetarians, and so it's a good
place to say, oh, I'll go, I'll go vegan for
a week, you know, just just out of fun really,
because there's so many options.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Do you only eat out?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
No, I'd love to cook really good kitchen in the
house in La So I really enjoyed it. Well, it's open.
It's this long, long run because the house used to
be an art gallery when it was built in nineteen
twenty three. It's I give too much of a detail,
but it's the under the Hollywood side Beechwood Canyon, and
(34:27):
there's an art It was an art gallery. So there's
this very long room in this upper upper room which
used to be where the pictures were one end of
it is the kitchen and it's open to the you know,
the dining room part of it and the other parts
of it, so you're kind of when you're cooking, you're cooking,
you're chatting to everybody who might be there, and there's
plenty of room. It's really there's good surfaces, you know
(34:47):
how somehow surfaces disappear when you cook put it?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Did you cook it there more than you would cook it?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah, And I love it. And
my husband's are good, you know, a good customer. He
seems to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you
please make sure to rape and review the podcast on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I'm Sean and I'm making Lemon almond and Palenticate.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
With Stephen Fry.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I am a convicted lemon plenticate user and I was
on the road to recovery, but now that's all been
set back.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I'm afraid, So shall I make this?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
You tell me what I need to do and.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Think we zoo apart from we've got that better.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Here, So that's just someften on its own.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Took the liberty of giving it a bit before you arrived,
because I thought, we don't need to watch that. But
as it goes from the yellow color to the pale color,
it's to your point of knowing that it's been beaten.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
And then you've got your.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Four hundred and fifty grams of cups of sugar, and
then this is going to get beaten until the sugar dissolves.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Right and again, I mean, it's one of the loveliest
tastes in the world, and there's a child butter and
sugar to get that's just covered.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Enough exactly be in the noise of it. We can talk.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
About to yourself.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
It's a very high tech Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Then you know some people will put a bit of
egg and a bit of flowering alternately, but I'm just
gonna brazen it out quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I think it all ends up in the same in
the end. Yeah, lovely, lovely.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I mean, just and then this is the plent of
flower and the ground almonds.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
So I'll just get that in. Let it get around
the slowly so it'll get covered.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You made this one quite recently. It's still warm, yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
So that that actually can have gone the menu for lunch. Now,
do you want to have a piece of that?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Why not?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Do you want to cut yourself?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
sEH, so soft? So I'm gonna have to say the
word moist, no escaping?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Is we just do you want to find you a fool?
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I'm quite happy to just frankly drop my head into
it and go like that.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
But probably that's.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Got cup of tea written all over it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Espresso.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
It's got espresso written all over, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Hmm, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
You can have that while you talk to Ruthy.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
That is so good, honestly brilliant.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
You've just made a palantic cake with Sean. Tell me
what that was like.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
It was a tremendous experience. It's so simple on the
one hand, but like all great dishes, it can be
made better by people who are confident. It's my theory
about food is that certain ingredients know when you're scared.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know when you're scared.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I love making mayonnaise, but it's a mood thing. Some
If you're not quite confident enough, it knows, and it
will split.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
If you're too confident, it will split.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You have to just sort of come up to it
and show that you are master, but that you respect it.
And I think that's true of a lot of ingredients.
And polenticate no less, so to get that gritty moisture
and that sweetness and that's citrus, all in the right proportion,
it's a simply joyous thing to eat.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I was going to also ask you about work and
creating and food. So when you are writing, when you're directing,
when you're doing your beautiful voice audio.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Books, I can't. I find it very hard to eat anything,
eat anything before a performance of any kind. That that's
as if your nerves sort of shrink you up, and
you and your metabolism is fast, which tends to reduce appetite.
Anything that makes your metabolism go quick reduces appetite, doesn't it,
Like again, for example speed, But those drugs are are
(39:24):
appetite suppressants as opposed to the slowly down ones that
can you know that famously cannabis gives you the munchies,
you know, and so on. So aside from external forces
and chemistry, the actual act of being nervous before a show,
I find has that thing that I just couldn't eat.
But afterwards, yes, and that's everyone tells you you shouldn't eat,
(39:46):
you know, two hours before bed or whatever, because you know, I.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Don't know if they say that anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
We always look for that study that you want to
read which says that actually you gain no more weight.
Am I eating before you go to bed than you
would if you had it at six o'clock?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Because I am a bit obsessed about my weight. I mean,
I know i'd be fitter. I would snow less and
and and puff less at the top of the steps
if I if I lost her.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We don't want any less.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I tried that zempic.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I'm the earlier doctor of these things, and I happen
to be in America and I'd read about it, and
I asked them, my doctor in America and my physician,
as they like to call them, and he said, I
can get you some, and he tried me on it.
And first week or so, I was thinking, this is astonishing.
Not only do I know want to eat, I don't
even want to I don't want alcohol of any kind.
(40:43):
This is going to be brilliant. And then I started
feeling sick. And then I started feeling sicker and sicker
and sucker.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And I was.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Literally throwing up four or five times a day, and
I thought, I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
So that's that's it. And the new.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Variant to Zeppeedei manduras it's called it makes it even
worse parent if you have those side effects. So as
he's probably good.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I think you look great, you are you are eating
and so food and work.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yes, I mean I do. I love.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I love to work on an empty stomach as well
when if it's right, yeah, and then writing mode at
the moment. Well, it's the fourth in a series of
books I've done on Greek mythology, and it's.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
The final one.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The first was the kind of birth of the gods
and the creation of humankind and the kind of gods
and the humans interacting and interbreeding. And the second one
is called Heroes and is like Hercules and Perseus and
Theseus and Jason and Atlanta and these you know, the
heroic race. And then the third one was the Trojan
(41:54):
War with Achilles and Helen and all that. And this
fourth one is the all Coming Home. Agamemnon has to
come home to be murdered, and Helen and menelais her husband,
have to go home. I picture that voyage home as
had a lot of folded arms, and it didn't try
very hard to escape from Troy, did you, darling? And
then of course the Odyssey, which is the main.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Story of it. Do you think the gods eight eight
they did?
Speaker 5 (42:19):
And what did they drink?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
The gods drank nectar nectar. Nectar nectar, which is not
quite the juice of you know, the hollyhock or the flower,
but a sort of honey and alcohol kind of thing
that was good for gods.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And they ate ambrosia. It was called ambrosia. No one's quite.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Sure what ambrosia was, but it was. It was the
food of the gods rather than the drink of the gods.
And this is what an ambrosia kept their blood in
a silvery form. The gods had silvery blood rather than
red or blue or green, and it was called kor.
And if humans had or if they tasted kora, it
(43:02):
was on them it would kill them straight away. So
for the gods, yeah, but it's a nice that one
of one of the best words in the English language
language is petrich or petrik or petric. Petross is rock
in Greek, as in petrol and petrify and all those things.
(43:25):
Petroleum and kore is that blood that's strange, silvery liquid.
And petricore is the word for that smell that rises
up from the earth after rain.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Which is not lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
That there's a word for it, and that's what it is,
this kind of holy, holy, sacred smell rising.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Up from the earth, and that note of smell and
comfort we were talking. I think I suppose we were
talking a lot about comfort that you derived from your
life in going to school and needing comfort in sweets
or going up later, and the memories of seeking comfort
as well. Before we go to lunch. What would be
(44:07):
a food that you would go for comfort.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
It's a small silvery fish in a tin, not a sardine,
although I like sardine.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
It's called skipper. You see them in supermarkets.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
At first you go, oh, there's obviously skip jack, do
you know, which is a different but but skippers are
little I don't know if there's another name for them,
but they are kind of bonelets who you have them whole,
and they're sort of soften, spread on toast and on toast.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
They are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Comfort.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I think I think my mother used to get them
and that's probably what it is. I mean, it's a
terrible admission, isn't it a terrible admssion.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Answer this question will say something from their memory of
sharing their mother, their father, their grandmother, the culture they
came from. Thank you, what a great question.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Pleasure, Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atamei Studios for iHeartRadio.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers, and it's produced by William Lensky.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
This episode was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed by
Nigel Appleton.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Our executive producers are Fay Stewart and Zad Rogers.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore, and our production coordinator
is Bella Cellini.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
This episode had additional contributions by Sean Wynn Owen.
Speaker 5 (45:44):
Thank you to everyone at The River Cafe for your
help in making this episode.
You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
There is a well known cartoon in the New Yorker
magazine depicting President Franklin Eleanor Roosevelt in his pajamas on
his knees next to his bed, saying a prayer for
(00:20):
his wife, the most active first lady in history. Dear Lord,
please make Eleanor tired tomorrow. I can imagine the friends
and family of Stephen Frye saying the same prayer. For
there is very little Stephen doesn't do. Actor, comedian, television host, director,
prolific writer with four novels, three autobiographies, and countless columns
(00:44):
in national papers. But should you ask, as I've been doing,
the people who know him really well, what Stephen is
best at, they will answer being a friend. As for me,
I love this man, all he stands for, and quite
say who he is, and I would change FDR's prayer.
I would say, Dear Lord, we all need Stephen fry
(01:08):
Please do not make him tired tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Ruth, I don't know what to say. You're going to
have to tiptoe out of the room now. I can't
possibly live up to such an introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So I'm sitting here in the River Cafe in our
New Sylvia's dining room. So shall we read the recipe
for the polenta and almond cake.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So here is the recipe or receipt, as upper class
people used to say, we.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Have torta di manoli mandole.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Of course he's also you know those pictures that the
Renaissance artists did of a face in a in a
frame that has a point at the top and a
point at the bottom, a sort of point. They call
that a mandola because it's the shape of an almond. Yeah, anyway,
tooni polenta almond and lemon cake. This serves ten or right,
(02:00):
So have you got your pencils out and you're licking them?
These first three dry ingredients are grapes, the same quantity
four hundred and fifty grams of unsalted butter. That's not
a dry ingredient, stephen softened. So remember in the morning,
first thing, take the butter out of the fridge. Four
hundred and fifty grams of casta sugar, four hundred and
fifty grounds of ground almonds, six of your finest eggs,
(02:25):
the zest of four lemons, and the juice of one lemon,
then two hundred and twenty grams of polent of flour,
one teaspoonful of baking powder. I never really know the
difference between baking powder and by carbonate of soda. There
is a huge difference. I'm being told in my ear
by my expert. So it's baking powder. Don't substitute with
(02:48):
anything else, baking soda or anything. So one teaspoonful of
baking powder, quarter a teaspoonful of salt. You will have
preheated the oven at this point two one hundred and
sixty degrees centigrade, I would say one hundred and forty
or fifty fan. Then butter and flour, a thirty centimeter
cake tin, which I hope you have lying handily around.
(03:10):
Beat the butter and sugar together until it becomes pale
and light, and that really does happen. The butter is
good British butter, yellow to start with. But it's amazing
how as it beats and beats and the sugar gets
released into it, it does become notably lighter. And that's
your signal to add the ground almonds. Then you stir
to combine them, and then you add the eggs one
at a time, and beat the mixture through. Fold in
(03:34):
the lemon zest, the lemon juice. The smell will rise
up into your nostrils. Then the polenta, which gives the
cake its major name, of course, the baking powder, and
the salt spoon. The mixture that then is now nice
and smooth into your prepared tin, and you bake in
the preheated oven for forty five to fifty minutes or
until set. I guess the old toothpick taste test will do,
(03:57):
and the cake will be deep brown on top. That
that's a cue. It's delicious on its own, as I
can absolutely testify. With a cappuccino perhaps, or a glass
of vincanto.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And when in season here.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
At this place of joy, the River Cafe, it says
we caramelize blood oranges. Can you imagine what you're doing
this morning, Darning, I'm caramelizing some blood oranges. It reminds
me of wonderful Les Dawson, the Northern comedian. Well, I
can't stop chapping. I've got a cape on to baste,
I've got sausages to prick and so on. Anyway, I've
(04:34):
I've got blood oranges to caramelize, and you serve that
with the cake, and you just couldn't do better. It's
one of the great great recipes.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think that if I, even in the last four minutes,
I have now understood that you are a great cook.
You're a great eater, but you are you know, are
your passionate cook. Would you describe yourself? Tell me about cooking?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was. I had a strange shout, and which was in.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It sounds if I said, it sounds like it's I
don't know, Downton Abby or something that it really wasn't.
But my parents did have a cook, and we had gardeners,
and we had an old fashioned Victorian kitchen garden, and
so I was used to the fact that every day
the gardeners would come to the back door and missus Risebro,
the cook, would select some of the vegetables or tell
(05:21):
them to go off and get something else, depending on
what she was cooking. And I would hang around, age
five or something watching her. I'd see her do things
like I mean, she was what used to be called
a good English plane cook. So she didn't do anything
terribly fancy, but everything she did was just right. Pies
and tarts and things like that. She was very good
at and she would take her thumb and put little
(05:44):
squares of pastry on it and pull them back to
make a rose that would go in the center of
pies and things, so little touches. Yeah, and she made
pork pies she made, oh yeah, basically anything but you
couldn't make she made. We had a game larder and
a things and so we'd have birds hung and things
like that.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Sounds good, missus riber she was one. Would they entertain,
Oh yeah, they were, and they were very social.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes, my mother would do dinner parties and when I
was young, and up until I was about twelve fourteen,
maybe that the there would be dinner jackets and black
tie and the men would be left alone by the
women in the dining room.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So that's, you know, that tradition that's still going the women.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
The men's stayed the women withdrew.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And I remember my mother saying. My mother read history.
She was was she was a history graduates, and she
taught it occasionally. And I would say to her, white
the men stay behind, and I think someone had said
to me, so they can tell dirty jokes that women
don't hear.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
My mother said, no.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know what it is really, she said the Victorians,
the women did not like drawing attention to the fact
that they had to use lavatries. So if they all
went in one go, they would go up to the lavatries,
use avatures together and then get down into the drawing
room and they'd be sitting there. But if everybody went
into the drawing room together after the meal and the
(07:08):
women said I'm going to go now, everyone go, oh,
she's off for a piss. And so it was just
a discreet way of women having that chance to do
that without being noticed, as it were.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And so you have your memories are of home and
good food and a care for food.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Because my mother had food. I won't say issues, but
she would drive the gardener's mad because she'd go out
when the peas were ready and she would just eat
the entire crop of peas.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Out of the pod. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I remember one sitting on a railway train and we're
going from one small town in Italy to another, and
we'd go into the market and bought some peas, and
we had children with us, and we were all eating
the raw peas on the train carriage. Italians went mad.
I mean, the idea of eating a raw piece. Those
people were sitting at it, and we could have taken
(08:02):
off all our clothes and had more respect than giving
our children raw pies out of it. But what's more delicious?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Raw pie?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And we make a salad?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Do you ever have?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know, you can make a salad with delicious.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
But the other thing is that it was natural because
of the kitchen garden was everything was in season, so
you know, and there were fruit trees, you know, trained
against the outbuildings, plum trees and things like that. And
there were goosberry bushes and raspberry and black currants, and
four fantastic asparagus beds raised asparagus beds Belgian asparagus, quite
(08:41):
small and delicate asparagus. And my mother had constant war
with the gardeners because well she had this theory and
that you shouldn't eat asparagus after ascot mid June something
like that. I don't know anyway, she'd heard that somewhere
or been told that, and she of course was desperate
(09:02):
to get hold of Once the asperancy was getting all
the ferns would come up, and she loved it for
flower rangings.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
She sounds amazing, She is sounds like she's still here,
she's ninety two. Because that I do think that inner
knowledge and passion for the garden, for the ferns, for
the seasonality of saying. And there is a very short
season for good asparagus Taska. It is there isn't you know?
(09:31):
In Paris one minute you'd go down to the market
and you know, there were white asparagus and green asparagus
and thin aspects, and then they were gone, and we're
just gone. And I think it's here as well. And
they do come from Norfolk.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yes they do.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But the criminal thing now, I think in some ways
is people don't understand that you can store fresh fruit
and vegetables. We had outhouses and there would be newspaper
and potatoes, and when we lifted all the potatoes and
there there'd be and they'd last all the way through
as long as it was dark and cool, which naturally
(10:03):
would be being an outhouse. And the same with apples
and pears. They lost forever.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Your parents were interested in food come from their cultural.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
My mother, yes, my father lesson. My father just did
everything that was put in front of him, and his
mind was on his work. He was a scientist. But
my mother was from a Jewish family, and Jews always
compared to the British in those days less so now
were obsessed with food, partly because in some cases they
knew poverty between the walls when things were really short
(10:33):
in Vienna and in Hungary, where my grandparents came from.
My grandfather was a good cook, and I remember, yeah,
he made the most beautiful sort of dill and cucumber
salads and things, and I really got a taste for
that kind of Central European flavor from him, things like
cucumbers and so on, which are very Central European polition,
(10:54):
hungering and other such things. And spicy, spicy, but not
in not like Indian or Mexican food spicy, but in
that sort of paprika spiciness, which I'm very fond of.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
My grandparents were Hungarian. One side were Russian Jews who
left Russia, and the other were Hungarian Jews that left Hungary.
They came to the United States as part of the
Ellis Island in Flux in nineteen probably fifteen, right really early.
They got it early. So growing up in this household,
(11:27):
going to you then went away to school at age seven,
and was that a food shark as well as a
home shock.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We grew up in Norfolk, and obviously my mother wouldn't
force me to eat anything I hated. And they arrived
at this prep school aged seven, which is in Gloucestershire,
two hundred miles right year was this, This is in
nineteen sixty four, and there are things like semolina and
tapioca hot milk puddings. Something about milk that's been boiled
(11:59):
makes me actually kick, makes me a dry heave. And
I saw these and I said, no, no, I can't,
I can't. And they forced it, literally holding my nose
like like a hunger strike thing. It was cruel in
those days, but of course you know it happened to
other boys, so you just think this is this is life.
But I really and I forced myself to throw up
at the table so that they stopped doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And and it forced yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
And it was written down Stephen Fry or Fry s
probably or Fry Junior because my brother was there, allergic
to hot milk.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Clever to figure out what to do.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, but it was I mean, it was all I
would say to Kensian. But it was a world of
chill blains and constipation and cold, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I mean the way they heated.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
A dormitory was just to have a hot pipe running
along the bottom, you know, no radiators or anything, and
so it.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Wasn't jud desperately.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I mean, yes, very much. So what it does
I've spoken about this before, and what it does is
you start to obsess about sweets. There's a touch shop
in the school. We are called the touch shop. Tuck
is the school slang for goodies for confectionery. And you
start to get really obsessed with when the touch shop
can to be opened and how much pocket money you've
(13:15):
got to buy these things. And this was the golden
age of confectionery. Cabri was producing new things like curly
whirleyon and Aztec bars, and there were these amazing you know,
foam shrimps and flying sauces made of rice paper and
fruit salads four for a penny and black jacks four
for a penny. And I became so obsessed that I
(13:37):
would start breaking out of school bunds and going to
the village shop. And it was in Gloucestershire, a little
village called Yuli, and I would spend whatever money I
had on getting those sweets, and it became a kind
of obsession that my teeth suffered by. You know, by
the time I was twelve, I was having huge amounts
of fillings and even having teeth out. But also interesting
(14:00):
and this is you know, I'm not using an excuse,
but a lot of it was preparation for smoking. There
were these coconut shredded brown fake tobaccos in a little
wax paper with a Spanish galleon on it, which was
like rolling tobacco. There were these candy cigarettes that you
would have licorice.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes, that's it, liquor.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
They were and in sort of fake Chesterfield packs softly
looked exactly like Chesterfield or something, or camel and licorice pipes,
and so they were getting you ready, well like pipe
smoker's pipe made out of a licorice. Yeah, and even
more sort of weirdly, the glamour of the white powder Sherbert,
(14:45):
so you'd suck it up through a licorice straw and
a Sherbert fountain. So it was preparing you for a
life to come.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
So you then go from the you know, when you
were fourteen or fifteen, you go for the real cigarettes
and smoking, and then when you're a little bit older
than that, the real white power.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
It's a terrible thought.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm not excusing it or saying that it was the
school's fault that I, in later life did become something
of an addict.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was even not to interrupt your story, but I
was going to say that culturally, if your parents were
Hungarian Jews background of that, did going to boarding school
come easier to them?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So my parents are both bought it all their time
as children, so there was no Yeah, there was nothing.
And you have to remember, if you're thinking how coral
to send a child away at the age of seven,
if that seven year old child has other friends as
I did in the Norfolk countryside, they were all boys
who were also going to go to school. And then
when you get to the prep school, obviously everyone's in
(15:41):
the same boat. So you just think this is what
life is like. You don't think this is so unfair.
There are people who are not going to boarding schools.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
You just think you might not.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, this is another discussion. You might not think it,
the child might not think it, but the parents might
think yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And I was aware that because because we would go
my mother and I from Norwich by train and breakfast
on the train. You know, it was so good because
they had these silver they did silver service. They had
stewards in short white little tops, tunics whatever, and they
would you know, the silver service in the sense they
(16:16):
would use a spoon and a fork in the same
hand and they could definitely put the bacon on a train,
egg on a train exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And we got to know them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Then they would recognize us and say, oh, school again,
young man, is it and all that, you know, We
would get the train and then we'd spend a day
in London. Sometimes we'd have lunch with my grandfather.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
At the walled Doff or the hotel. Yeah, that's sort
of ver. He liked the yeah, the big yeah there
you go in there.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That's what you got their dances.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So that's a nice hotel.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And and then go to Paddington and that's where my
heart wouldtart to sink and flutter a bit because you'd
see at the end of the platform on boys in
these straw hats that we call boaters, and that was
the school compartment. But then you'd notice, or I'd noticed
that my mother was crying. She was trying not to
(17:11):
so touchy. It's making me moove now because you know,
everyone thinking how cruel of parents, but they don't want
to lose their child, but they just feel that's the
right thing for them.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You stayed in school till.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh ah, well, now we don't have enough time to
cover the chapters of disaster, do we. I went from
prep school. Prep school in England is age seven, which
is the youngest, and two thirteen, and then you would
take what was called a common entrance exam, which.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Was for public schools.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I private schools, and I went to private school called
Oppingham and my behavior was dreadful.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And then worst of all, I fell in love with
a boy.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And I was so confused by this, so absolutely astonished
by the power of the emotion, the sheer power that
you could be obsessed for twenty four hours a day
and of nothing else and change your walking habits. So
you would bump into this person and knowing just phenomenal obsession,
not really sexual even I was, you know, just something overwhelming.
(18:13):
Was it reciprocated eventually there was a nice moment, but yeah, yeah,
it threw me completely and certainly threw my concentration away.
But the actual casus bellies, I think well, and should
say the cause of the war, the originating disaster was.
(18:36):
I was a member, the youngest member of the Sherlock
Holmes Society of London, and I got permissioned from my
housemaster to go to a meeting of the Society in
London in some grand club, and I read a paper,
I delivered a paper, and the idea was that the
next I was staying overnight at the club and the
(18:56):
next morning I would take a train back to school. Well,
the next morning I went to a cinema. In those days,
cinemas would sort of start a program at ten in
the morning or something, and then just you could stay
in the same cinema and what the same film again
and again. And the film was Cabaret, and I was
completely obsessed with it. I just never seen anything like it.
It was fantastic. And then chose it, yeah, I mean
(19:20):
almost randomly, not knowing what it was or anything about it,
not naying you know about Christi Riischewood or Eliza Beannelly
or any of the sort of background to it. And
then I wandered in the days to another cinema and
there was a clock whek Orange was on and unfortunately
I was although I was fourteen and a half, I
could pass as X, which was eighteen, I guess, and
because being tall, I suppose. And so there were there
(19:42):
were three or four films, I think The Godfather as well,
and Fritz the Cat, which was a sort of pornographic cartoon.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Mem do you remember.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
So four days past?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
You stayed four days?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And was anybody out searching?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yes? And there were terrified and they didn't know what
had happened to me, and they'd run away. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And then I kind of came to in a sort
of days and went back to the school. There was
a lot of folded arms and tapping of feet on
the carpet.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And will anybody call the police?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well they had done, yes, they reported me as missing
after three days. I think whatever it was, so, yeah,
it was just a disaster. And I remember getting in
the car with my parents because I was expelled from
the school, and my father saying the words, we will
talk about this sorry incident when we get home.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Sorry, sorry incident. It was a sorry incident.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
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full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks,
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online at shop the River Cafe dot co dot UK.
(21:10):
When you went to Cambridge, what was the food like there?
Then you were away from both the boarding school and
you were away from your parents. Could you create your
own food world more?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yes, there were some students got friendly with who really
understood food.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Did you cook for yourself at Cambridge? Or was that hard?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
If you were in college, you had your rooms and
you had what was called a jip room, which was
like a little kitchen, but it didn't really have a
proper oven or anything, so you couldn't do much there.
But because of the acting, I would, in particular after
the May term, which is like the summer term at Cambridge,
when it was over, I would stay on to rehearse
(21:50):
with friends all the plays we were taking up to Edinburgh.
And then one might stay at totally different places and
I stayed with it rather than in your college, because
your college would be given ever to conferences and things
like that, and they wouldn't let you stay there. So
I remember staying with friends, and one of these friends, Ben,
who was really good. He taught me the mill pois
that the preparation for almost anything, you know, the carrots,
(22:11):
the celery and chopping them up, and.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Called the Italian cooking Sofrito.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Exactly exactly, and he's the basis of everything from Bologniers upwards,
as it were. And so I really enjoyed learning that
and seeing how all that worked. And he showed me
as well what I now know is called deglazing, you
know how you had I say, everything's stuck, and he
goes he take a glass of wine and just throw
it on, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Getting, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And then it would all just come into life, and
you know, he had that confidence.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So was he really the first person to do he.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Kind of was. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
He taught me not to be afraid and not to
have to follow every syllable on a page, because once
you knew the principle of certain kinds of cooking, you
could just then do very Oh we haven't got any
that with his fish instead, but.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It says it's for lambs. That's all right, you know,
and you just sort of take that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I was saying cooking is a bit like poetry. You know,
you have to know the real poetry to go to
free verse.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yes, exactly, once you know the fourteen line Sonnet, you
can then exactly escape the prison of the form. But
it was really when I left Cambridge I was so
fortunate because you know our comedy stuff I was doing
with Hugh Lori and Emma.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Thompson one prize comedy.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
What it was, cameridt to this club called the Footlights
which is well over one hundred years old and it
sort of specializes in comedy. I say it is whoever
the undergraduates are at the time who happened to be
members of the club. But it famously had Peter Cook
and John Clees and Eric Idel and the Grifflies Jones
(23:50):
and Douglas Adams and Clive James and all Baron Margerleyesyes,
Stephen and then Stephen Frown, Hi Luri and Emma Thompson.
We were all one bunch and we went to Edinburgh
and we won this new prize called the Perrier Award
for Comedy, and this involved going to Australia. Well sort
of it didn't. The prize didn't, but because we won.
(24:10):
It's an Australian entrepreneur called Michael Edgeley saw our show
and then said, you guys want to come out to Australia.
And that's where I learned to eat because it was
an absolute revelation. This is nineteen eighty one, starting in Sydney.
Doyle's of course, the amazing seafood place. You walk along
the dunes and come to this beautiful shack where the
(24:31):
food is well, things you've never heard of, like Barry
Mundy and Morton bay bugs and all these extraordinary seafood things.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
But also oysters.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I mean, oyster is so plentiful and not oh my goodness,
I'm having oysters. I must be in Bentley's or in
you know some posh you know London restaurant that does oysters.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But it was, yeah, I have some oysters, mane.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I mind Rockefeller or Killpatrick, you know these different ways
of preparing them. Kill Patrick because of the mind, because
it involved was thesaurce.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I became really obsessed with oysters and would have
and they were cheap sometimes you could.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
That's the point.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I have some plump half a dozen plump specific oysteres
not cooked, and then half a dozen cooked more neat
Rockefeller and Kilpatrick with.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
The one with bacon to kill Patrick. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And and there were cheapest, cheapest chips, as people say so.
And wine was the other thing I finally moved off
the lampres.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
We haven't talked about that, yeah, because they.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Had things like Grange Hermitage, which at the time was
good but nothing like as expensive as it is now.
Three or four hundred pound a bottle at least, isn't it.
But they you know this, They had this way of
categorizing wines which is so ridiculously obvious but was unheard
of by grape Vlatal. So they would say this is
(25:58):
a sheers, you know, and and this is you know,
Kevin I Servignon, and this is a semon whatever. And
they'd tell you about.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
The grape and you go, oh, I see.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Then you get back to England and every restaurant just
a shadowed nerve to this shadow that, and you get
what does that mean? But when I got back to England.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
We were like for two months and.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Traveling everywhere all the big cities, in some of the
crazy little towns like Albury, Wodonga, eating fabulous food cheaply
and happily.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And the whole day.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Really was around the fact we'd finished the show and
what restaurant we're going to And but when I got
back to England, I was wandering around. So we were
doing a TV show and I was feeling lucky and
flushed with cash relatively compared to being a student, but
not very rich. And I was wondering, to say, when
I was getting lost, as you do, and before you
understand that, what's the cross street?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And you know?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And so I was going down this street called Greek
Street and I saw on attractive looking restaurant and the
restaurant was called Let's Gargo the Snail, and I wandered
in and this fabulous woman about three foot tall came
up to me and said hello, dear, and I said, oh,
it was obviously very nervous. She said you come with
me and she sat me down. You'll know who I'm
talking about, Ellen Salvatina, this amazing woman, phenomenal, and she
(27:21):
sat me down and I said, I'm not and she
chose for me, somehow brilliantly, things that were just cheap
enough for me to be able to afford. And so
from then on the richer I got the luckier I got,
I would go there. And this was in the high
days of Let's Cargo. We know Princess Diana. We'd go
and all these people. But most importantly again.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It was.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Chancey's Robinson's husband Lander, his name was Nick Lander, who
ran Let's Go Go and Jancey's Robinson's Great Wine created
great the first woman to be made of Master of Wine.
Fabulous person and she made the wine list varietal. So
it was the first, I think probably in London to
(28:04):
be like that where it was, and gosh, I had
some marvelous times there, absolutely amazingly recognized someone.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
We became very good friends.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
She then moved to Lettual in Charlotte Street, and her
husband Aldo was a fat fascinating man as well, because
they lived in Noel Road in Islington in the nineteen
sixties year and their neighbor their neighbors were a gay
couple called Kenneth Halliwell and Joe Orton, and it was
Aldo who there was a they'd heard some shouting and
(28:35):
then the next day they were worried and and and
Eleanor had said, how's what's what's up with Joe and Aldo?
And she looked through the keyhole and saw him dead,
and Alder had to break down the door, and of
course Kenneth Halliwell had killed his lover and then himself,
so she never forgot that. But I remember once, for example,
(28:56):
I was having dinner there with Ron Atkins and my
friend Rowan, the wonderful Great. Yeah, let's go and go upstairs.
And Rowan is the most wonderful person in the world.
But he is not a late night figure at all
in those days.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I quite was.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So we'd had dinner and it was like holp Us
nine and said, right, well, I'm I'll get a cab
and go home. And I thought, oh, well, I'll do
the same. So I ordered a cab. His cab came first,
and I was just about to leave it, and I said,
could you go and cheer up John Hurt. He's just
left his wife and he's was all very unhappy and
(29:32):
he needs a bit of cheering up. So I sat
down and there was John had you know, I sit
down and every now and again and said your CAB's
still here. I said, oh, tell him, I'll be five minutes.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, it's five minutes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We were getting home and the cab bill was two
hundred and twenty pounds. And I saw John about a
week later and said, I have told everyone I got
hurt on Thursday night, and he said, well, I told
everyone I got fried. I got to know them even
better later because he moved to Norfolk.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Was Europe at all an influence? Did you travel to
France or Italy or did you do Greece? Was there
any food experience from being in Europe?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Just as I was really beginning to love food, I
went with Rowan, whom I mentioned ron Atkinson had bought
a new Western Martin and he said, I really think
we should try this out. And so we booked ourselves
an amazing holiday, going all the way down France through
basically through as many three star, three Michelin star restaurants,
(30:43):
so mioneise in outside Leon and Chappelle's restaurant thing, and
then down to the Moujen restaurants outside Cannes, you know
in the column door, which is not through star, but
it's one of the greatest.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Restaurants in the world.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Oh that menu.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
People who don't know it's up from up from cann
in the hills and it's this beautiful, beautiful place. It's
like your ideal image of a promo soul house with
the tiles and everything else, but it has added to
it these extraordinary pieces on the walls by Matisse and
others and mirror and yeah, that's right, these extraordinary paintings
(31:21):
because the original patron and his wife would allow the
artists to give pictures instead of paying the bills. And
it has since become, you know, one of the great
restaurants of the world. Really it's it's atmosphere and for
all its fame and uh, you know, they're not necessarily
easy to get a table, especially during the Canned Film
(31:41):
Festival or something. It is the friendliest, warmest place. It's really,
you know, like all these good places there, you might
think they're going to be frightened the river. Under the river,
you won't find people looking snooterly at you at all.
It's the opposite of good restaurant to have snootiness, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
When I boat you couple of months ago, you were
talking about your schedule and a lot of it was
around being in London or being in Los Angeles. And
I think that California is so interesting in terms of
going back to Alice Walters and food farm to table
and restaurants like Wolfgang Pugs, Mamaison becoming Spago where he
(32:21):
made pizzas, and now the very kind of healthy eating
of California. And I think if we're talking about a
kind of food culture, would you say that in Los
Angeles you're finding a certain type of food culture unquestionably.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And one of the interesting things is people picture Los
Angeles and they think of smart movie people. And obviously
there are a lot of movie people, but the food
culture is driven from below, and the smart movie people
follow it. And over the last ten years, the major
thing has been street food food trucks, which a lot
(32:56):
of British people when you would say to them, all,
look there's a fish taco truck. Let's going to have
that lunch, I'll go crazy. Is it hygieniic? You know?
I mean, there's sort of weird British idea that a
food truck couldn't live up to a restaurant. And very
often the que is the indication. You'll see a big
line and you'll know that's a good one, and you
make a note in your head next time I'm driving
(33:16):
down here, I'll go and try try what they've got.
And they and there's that side of things. Of course,
there's the glamorous side of places. The movie people go. Yeah,
the Polo Lounge and it's like Craigs. Now you'll always
see a Kardashian in there if you want to. And again,
you know, because they're the paparazzi outside and what in
(33:39):
America they call videographers who are called TMZ the this
kind of news channel.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Gossip news channel.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
But the quality of food is good for you know,
good for vegans and vegetarians, and so it's a good
place to say, oh, I'll go, I'll go vegan for
a week, you know, just just out of fun really,
because there's so many options.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Do you only eat out?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
No, I'd love to cook really good kitchen in the
house in La So I really enjoyed it. Well, it's open.
It's this long, long run because the house used to
be an art gallery when it was built in nineteen
twenty three. It's I give too much of a detail,
but it's the under the Hollywood side Beechwood Canyon, and
(34:27):
there's an art It was an art gallery. So there's
this very long room in this upper upper room which
used to be where the pictures were one end of
it is the kitchen and it's open to the you know,
the dining room part of it and the other parts
of it, so you're kind of when you're cooking, you're cooking,
you're chatting to everybody who might be there, and there's
plenty of room. It's really there's good surfaces, you know
(34:47):
how somehow surfaces disappear when you cook put it?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Did you cook it there more than you would cook it?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah, And I love it. And
my husband's are good, you know, a good customer. He
seems to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you
please make sure to rape and review the podcast on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I'm Sean and I'm making Lemon almond and Palenticate.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
With Stephen Fry.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I am a convicted lemon plenticate user and I was
on the road to recovery, but now that's all been
set back.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I'm afraid, So shall I make this?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
You tell me what I need to do and.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Think we zoo apart from we've got that better.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Here, So that's just someften on its own.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Took the liberty of giving it a bit before you arrived,
because I thought, we don't need to watch that. But
as it goes from the yellow color to the pale color,
it's to your point of knowing that it's been beaten.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
And then you've got your.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Four hundred and fifty grams of cups of sugar, and
then this is going to get beaten until the sugar dissolves.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Right and again, I mean, it's one of the loveliest
tastes in the world, and there's a child butter and
sugar to get that's just covered.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Enough exactly be in the noise of it. We can talk.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
About to yourself.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
It's a very high tech Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Then you know some people will put a bit of
egg and a bit of flowering alternately, but I'm just
gonna brazen it out quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I think it all ends up in the same in
the end. Yeah, lovely, lovely.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I mean, just and then this is the plent of
flower and the ground almonds.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
So I'll just get that in. Let it get around
the slowly so it'll get covered.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You made this one quite recently. It's still warm, yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
So that that actually can have gone the menu for lunch. Now,
do you want to have a piece of that?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Why not?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Do you want to cut yourself?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
sEH, so soft? So I'm gonna have to say the
word moist, no escaping?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Is we just do you want to find you a fool?
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I'm quite happy to just frankly drop my head into
it and go like that.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
But probably that's.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Got cup of tea written all over it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Espresso.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
It's got espresso written all over, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Hmm, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
You can have that while you talk to Ruthy.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
That is so good, honestly brilliant.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
You've just made a palantic cake with Sean. Tell me
what that was like.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
It was a tremendous experience. It's so simple on the
one hand, but like all great dishes, it can be
made better by people who are confident. It's my theory
about food is that certain ingredients know when you're scared.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know when you're scared.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I love making mayonnaise, but it's a mood thing. Some
If you're not quite confident enough, it knows, and it
will split.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
If you're too confident, it will split.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You have to just sort of come up to it
and show that you are master, but that you respect it.
And I think that's true of a lot of ingredients.
And polenticate no less, so to get that gritty moisture
and that sweetness and that's citrus, all in the right proportion,
it's a simply joyous thing to eat.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I was going to also ask you about work and
creating and food. So when you are writing, when you're directing,
when you're doing your beautiful voice audio.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Books, I can't. I find it very hard to eat anything,
eat anything before a performance of any kind. That that's
as if your nerves sort of shrink you up, and
you and your metabolism is fast, which tends to reduce appetite.
Anything that makes your metabolism go quick reduces appetite, doesn't it,
Like again, for example speed, But those drugs are are
(39:24):
appetite suppressants as opposed to the slowly down ones that
can you know that famously cannabis gives you the munchies,
you know, and so on. So aside from external forces
and chemistry, the actual act of being nervous before a show,
I find has that thing that I just couldn't eat.
But afterwards, yes, and that's everyone tells you you shouldn't eat,
(39:46):
you know, two hours before bed or whatever, because you know, I.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Don't know if they say that anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
We always look for that study that you want to
read which says that actually you gain no more weight.
Am I eating before you go to bed than you
would if you had it at six o'clock?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Because I am a bit obsessed about my weight. I mean,
I know i'd be fitter. I would snow less and
and and puff less at the top of the steps
if I if I lost her.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We don't want any less.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I tried that zempic.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I'm the earlier doctor of these things, and I happen
to be in America and I'd read about it, and
I asked them, my doctor in America and my physician,
as they like to call them, and he said, I
can get you some, and he tried me on it.
And first week or so, I was thinking, this is astonishing.
Not only do I know want to eat, I don't
even want to I don't want alcohol of any kind.
(40:43):
This is going to be brilliant. And then I started
feeling sick. And then I started feeling sicker and sicker
and sucker.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And I was.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Literally throwing up four or five times a day, and
I thought, I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
So that's that's it. And the new.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Variant to Zeppeedei manduras it's called it makes it even
worse parent if you have those side effects. So as
he's probably good.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I think you look great, you are you are eating
and so food and work.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yes, I mean I do. I love.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I love to work on an empty stomach as well
when if it's right, yeah, and then writing mode at
the moment. Well, it's the fourth in a series of
books I've done on Greek mythology, and it's.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
The final one.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The first was the kind of birth of the gods
and the creation of humankind and the kind of gods
and the humans interacting and interbreeding. And the second one
is called Heroes and is like Hercules and Perseus and
Theseus and Jason and Atlanta and these you know, the
heroic race. And then the third one was the Trojan
(41:54):
War with Achilles and Helen and all that. And this
fourth one is the all Coming Home. Agamemnon has to
come home to be murdered, and Helen and menelais her husband,
have to go home. I picture that voyage home as
had a lot of folded arms, and it didn't try
very hard to escape from Troy, did you, darling? And
then of course the Odyssey, which is the main.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Story of it. Do you think the gods eight eight
they did?
Speaker 5 (42:19):
And what did they drink?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
The gods drank nectar nectar. Nectar nectar, which is not
quite the juice of you know, the hollyhock or the flower,
but a sort of honey and alcohol kind of thing
that was good for gods.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And they ate ambrosia. It was called ambrosia. No one's quite.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Sure what ambrosia was, but it was. It was the
food of the gods rather than the drink of the gods.
And this is what an ambrosia kept their blood in
a silvery form. The gods had silvery blood rather than
red or blue or green, and it was called kor.
And if humans had or if they tasted kora, it
(43:02):
was on them it would kill them straight away. So
for the gods, yeah, but it's a nice that one
of one of the best words in the English language
language is petrich or petrik or petric. Petross is rock
in Greek, as in petrol and petrify and all those things.
(43:25):
Petroleum and kore is that blood that's strange, silvery liquid.
And petricore is the word for that smell that rises
up from the earth after rain.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Which is not lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
That there's a word for it, and that's what it is,
this kind of holy, holy, sacred smell rising.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Up from the earth, and that note of smell and
comfort we were talking. I think I suppose we were
talking a lot about comfort that you derived from your
life in going to school and needing comfort in sweets
or going up later, and the memories of seeking comfort
as well. Before we go to lunch. What would be
(44:07):
a food that you would go for comfort.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
It's a small silvery fish in a tin, not a sardine,
although I like sardine.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
It's called skipper. You see them in supermarkets.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
At first you go, oh, there's obviously skip jack, do
you know, which is a different but but skippers are
little I don't know if there's another name for them,
but they are kind of bonelets who you have them whole,
and they're sort of soften, spread on toast and on toast.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
They are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Comfort.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I think I think my mother used to get them
and that's probably what it is. I mean, it's a
terrible admission, isn't it a terrible admssion.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Answer this question will say something from their memory of
sharing their mother, their father, their grandmother, the culture they
came from. Thank you, what a great question.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Pleasure, Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atamei Studios for iHeartRadio.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers, and it's produced by William Lensky.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
This episode was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed by
Nigel Appleton.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Our executive producers are Fay Stewart and Zad Rogers.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore, and our production coordinator
is Bella Cellini.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
This episode had additional contributions by Sean Wynn Owen.
Speaker 5 (45:44):
Thank you to everyone at The River Cafe for your
help in making this episode.
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