Wendy Kopp: Founder of Teach for All and Teach for America

When she was an undergrad at Princeton, she launched a revolution in education with Teach for America, a way to help children in under-served neighborhoods get a good education. With Teach for All, her mission has gone international. In time for a new school year, we revisit this inspiring episode with Wendy Kopp.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
You know, our generation was called the me generation because
people were just so convinced that all we wanted to
do is make a lot of money and work on
Fall Street. And I thought that that was just so misplaced,
and that I was one of thousands of people searching
for something that would enable us to make a real
difference in the world. I saw these investment banks and
management consulting firms banging down the doors of liberal arts

(00:28):
graduates like myself, asking us to commit just two years
to work in their firms, and I thought, why aren't
we being recruited just as aggressively to commit just two
years to teach in urban and rural communities. Um. And
that was that was really the beginning of my obsession
with this idea. That was Wendy cup whose big idea

(00:50):
was that all children, no matter where they live, deserve
a good education in While she was still a student
at Princeton, she created Teach for America, the enormously successful
program that signs up recent college grads to teach and
underserved schools for two years, a sort of Peace Corps

(01:14):
for education. In two thousand and seven, she took her
mission international by launching Teach for All I'm a land
Ververe and this is Seneca's one Women to Hear. We
are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring
and history making women you need to hear. Wendy cop

(01:38):
has been called the leader of a revolution and education.
Teach for America can boast more than sixty four thousand
alumni and has created a network of leaders who are
working to improve children's education in the United States and
around the world. Teach for All has helped boost education

(02:00):
and develop leaders through local partnerships with organizations ranging from
Teach for India, to Teach for Peru, to Teach for Nigeria,
you name it, across sixty countries. Along the way, Wendy
Copp has been honored with just about every award you
can think of, from the Time one hundred two Glamorous

(02:24):
Woman of the Year to the School Award. Listen and
learn why Wendy Copp is one of Seneca's one hundred
Women To Hear. I'm just delighted to be speaking today
to Wendy Copp, the founder of Teach for America and

(02:44):
also the CEO and co founder of Teach for All. Wendy,
it's an absolute pleasure to be able to speak with you.
You are indeed an inspiration. Oh, it's such a pleasure
to be here. You've started two major organizations and both revolutionary,
I might add in the world of education, so Teach

(03:05):
for America many of us know young people who have
been involved in it. And then there's Teach for All.
What's the overall goal that links them and how would
you describe their mission? Well, Teach for All is really
a global network of independent organizations in now sixty countries

(03:26):
and growing that, like Teach for America, are all working
to develop collective leadership to ensure all children fulfill their potential.
I think what brings everyone together in this network is
a belief that the fact that the circumstances of children's
birth predict their outcomes in life is a very big

(03:49):
systemic challenge and and that requires you know, it requires
collective leadership. It requires people exerting leadership at every level
of the education system and policy around the whole ecosystem
around kids. Um, if if we're going to change that
and actually build a world where all kids have the
chance to thrive. And so each of these organizations shares

(04:12):
an approach to cultivating that leadership UM. As you say,
by enlisting promising leaders and committing at least two years
to teach UM in in in under resource communities and
investing in their leadership, UM knowing that those two years
fuel a lifetime of leadership and advocacy. UM. And uh,

(04:34):
you know, in pursuit of the systemic changes that are
ultimately necessary. Do the member countries and Teach for All
do they have programs comparable to Teach for America. They
should maybe back up and explain how this all came about,
how Teach for All came about, because, as you say,
I mean I started Teach for America and I really

(04:54):
had my head down, fully focused on tackling the massive
inequities in in the US. I wasn't thinking at all
about the rest of the world. UM. But there was
something in the water about fifteen years ago, and within
one year I had met thirteen people from thirteen different countries,
from India to Chile to China to Lebanon, etcetera, who

(05:17):
were just determined that something similar needed to happen in
their countries. And so that is really and they were
looking for help. And that seems very overwhelming, given that
I had my hands full in the US. But ultimately
that led to the idea of launching Teach for All
is a network of independent, locally led, governed funded organizations

(05:39):
that would all share this common purpose to common approach
um and and that would have a global organization to
help us all learn from each other. Terrific. Uh. That
makes a whole lot of sense to a network in
that way and enhance what each is doing. So I
know that you've written that what is behind all of

(06:02):
this is the need to rethink the purpose of education too,
if you will reimagine education. What do you mean by that?
You know? About five years ago, I think we had
grown from Teach for America in the US and Teach
First in the UK, which was the first kind of
adaptation to then having forty of these independent organizations, from

(06:27):
Teach for India to Teach for China, etcetera. Um, you know,
and and there was such a push across our network
to say, ultimately, what do we mean? I mean, we
started with a vision that one day all children would
have the chance to attain an excellent education, and I
think there was just such a healthy push from all
across our network to say, what do we mean by

(06:49):
excellent education. And so we came together in this process
probably five years ago now, to ask ourselves what are
we working on together, like what's our twenty five year vision?
And that process really brought to all of us the
reality that if if our students today are not developing
as leaders who can shape a better future for themselves

(07:12):
and for all of us, meaning navigated changing economy and
pursue meaningful careers and solve increasingly complex problems that face
their communities and our global society, then then there's just
no hope for reaching any of our aspirations. And so
that became, you know, our vision to say, you know,
we want to reach the day when all kids have

(07:34):
the education and support an opportunity to shape a better
future for themselves and all of us um And and
that led us to spend a lot of time over
these last five years really thinking about what that means
for all of us. You know, what does that mean
for teachers and for schools and systems, Like what would

(07:54):
we have to be doing in order to develop students
in that way? And so when we say we really
need to reimagine education and reinvent the system, it's because
you know, we've really come to think that we will
need to do that if we're going to in fact
develop students, you know, to that end. And when you
started Teach for America, was that in your uppermost mind

(08:15):
already back then? Actually, I you know, I started Teach
for America because I had become disillusioned of the idea
that that my country is a land of equal opportunity.
You know. I had, I think, as a concerned college student,
um and as a public policy major, had just come

(08:38):
to understand that the circumstances of kids birth, their economic background,
their racial background, um, really predicts their their outcomes, um
and and I wanted to do something about that. And
I realized I wasn't alone. I mean, I really felt
that I was one of just thousands of people out there,
pragmatic ideal you know, who wanted to be part of

(09:02):
something that would actually address that reality. And so that's
what inspired the idea of Teach for America. And I
think it lad me early on to think in terms
of equity, you know, um, like we need to catch
kids up, Like you know, kids don't have equal opportunity
to excel, and thus we have these massive you know,

(09:25):
achievement caps um. But ultimately, I think, and it didn't
take too long to start realizing that catching kids up
in an in an outdated system, you know, isn't enough,
and that ideally we would be developing students who could
actually ultimately challenge the very roots of inequity. Um So
I think those thoughts were bubbling up that Teach for

(09:47):
America and really all across our network, and it's it's
really what led us to then say, we need to
rearticulate what we're working towards. You know, it's it's just
stunning to think about the fact that you were only
twenty one years old when you really uh incubated Teach
for America. That was some thirty years ago, now, I guess,

(10:09):
and and in the process not only worked to address
these massive iniquities, but also to inspire a whole host
of young people to pay their own experiences forward, if
you will, to really engage in this way, both idealistically
and pragmatically. So it's it's quite an achievement, you know,

(10:32):
here on a hundred women to hear, we're we're really
interested in what catalyzed the kind of leadership that you
and so many others manifest. Was there something in your
childhood or in your upbringing that set you on this path,
you know. I think one the thing was that, you know,

(10:53):
my parents, who had you know, grown up in in
in rural communities and Midwest and had kind of put
themselves through college and had started a very small business,
you know, really prioritized education of my brother and I
and and you know, moved into a community sort of

(11:14):
on initially the edge of a community that that had
really strong public schools. And as a result, um, you know,
I you know, I experienced what it is to have
a strong public education. And and then I went off
to Princeton and and I was very conscious of the
fact my senior year in college that I felt like

(11:36):
the whole world was open to me. I literally thought
I could do anything. And that thought made me want
to put my energy into education. I think just realizing
how much freedom I felt because of the opportunities I
had had, and and recognizing that not everyone had those
same opportunities, um is what led me in this direction.

(12:01):
And I will say, I mean I kind of knew myself,
you know, I knew that I was just kind of
wired to work incredibly hard at whatever I was doing.
And I wanted to make sure that I didn't work
on something that wasn't going to make a meaningful difference.
Like I really was very clear on that by the
time I got to my senior year in college, like,

(12:21):
I want to make sure that I'm doing something that
will actually make a meaningful difference in the world. UM.
So I think those things came together to lead me
to this sense that I was just searching for something
I wasn't finding. And you know, our generation was called
the me generation because people were just so convinced that
all we wanted to do is make a lot of

(12:41):
money and work on Wall Street. Um And I thought
that that was just so misplaced, and that I was
one of thousands of people searching for something that would
enable us to make a real difference in the world.
Um and, And that's really what led me to this
particular idea. You know, I saw these investment banks and
management consulting firms banging down the doors of liberal arts

(13:04):
graduates like myself, asking us to commit just two years
to work in their firms, And I thought, why aren't
we being recruited just as aggressively to commit just two
years to teach in urban and rural communities. Um, and
that was that was really the beginning of my obsession
with this idea. Well, it was a very noble obsession

(13:24):
and continues to be in And clearly you touched a nerve.
Why do you think so many young people across America
responded the way they did back when and continue to
do So? What what is it about a teach for
America that's been so successful and and so catalyzing? And

(13:45):
you know, I'll even broaden that because we're seeing that
this is really a worldwide phenomenon. I mean to see
young people all around the world clamoring to to apply
for you know, teach for Indie out or teacher for
Nigeria or the Senior Peru, etcetera. UM. And I think
we're tapping into an instinct that's already there. Meaning, you know,

(14:09):
there's always a certain percentage of real leaders out there
among our kind of you know, recent graduates who are
who really want to do something that makes a real
difference in the world, who want to be part of
something much larger than themselves, and yet there are many
pressures on them, you know, to to channel their energy

(14:31):
in one direction or another. Um. Financial pressures, you know,
kind of paranal pressures, whatever it may be. And I
think we're making it possible for them to make this choice.
And I think what even from the very beginning, you know,
I was so obsessed with this, not only because of
what the impact could be during the two years, but

(14:52):
because of what I thought the impact would be long term,
you know, because people can commit just two years, but
you know, they commit to two years to banks that
they never leave the banks. So that was the real idea,
was to say, let's ask people to commit to years,
but those two years will change everything, their priorities, their
understanding of the realities of our country, their commitment to

(15:14):
this work, and ultimately, I thought at the time, the
consciousness you know of of our country. So explain to
us how an individual who is interested in Teach for
America goes about it? What is the process? Uh? And
then what do they commit to doing? Uh? What do
they get for it? If you will, how does that work? So,

(15:37):
you know, for Teach for America or for any of
these other network organizations, UM, people from all different academic
majors and backgrounds and career interests apply and and the
organizations look for people who who have demonstrated real you know,
leadership and UM and and and a commitment to these

(16:00):
issues UM. And then they invest a lot in their
development through very intensive, essentially two year programs of professional
and development starting before the teaching commitment. And then you know,
the teachers are clustered in schools and receive ongoing coaching
and professional development during the two years, and then beyond
the two years, UM, there's quite an investment in kind

(16:23):
of fostering the ongoing leadership of these folks, UM, supporting
them as they either continuing classrooms or become school leaders,
or work in their government ministries or launch social enterprises
UM or just really think as individuals and collectively about
what more they believe needs to happen to take to

(16:44):
take the issues on that that they saw play themselves
play out in their classrooms. And are they accepted the
same way as schools except the teach for America teachers
is similar in India, in the UK, etcetera. And each
of these organizations has has kind of adapted this approach

(17:05):
to their particular context. UM. And in each case, UM,
though I mean I think I think you we could
say yes, I mean, there are new teachers coming into
their school buildings. UM, and you know, they commit two
years and in some cases they stay longer, in some
cases not. But one of the biggest keys to success

(17:27):
is learning from and with and alongside the students and
their families and the other teachers in their schools and
so UM there's quite a focus and investment on UM
you know, really developing the teachers so that they are
you know, developing relationships and working in true partnership with

(17:48):
the others in their schools, and that typically leads to
a really mutually beneficial relations you know, just really strong
relationships at at the school level. Well, I know so
many young people who went in to teach for America
and truly it has been life changing for them. Some
have remained committed to education, others have gone on to

(18:11):
UM really do extraordinary work in their communities or UM
in other ways. So it is it is, it is
truly life changing. I think that's a real big component
of it. We've really seen that, and you know, just
to give you to bring that to life a bit. UM.

(18:31):
If we look across the Teach for All network, about
like seventy people have completed to your commitments to teach
and seventy percent of them UM are still full time,
long term in education, with others doing similar you know,
maybe they're working in policy or law, but they're focused
on improving the quality of life in low income communities.

(18:53):
So we've seen it be really transformative in terms of
the priorities and careers to jactories of the participants. But
even beyond that, you know, there's there now is a
growing body of research that looks at what happens to
these teachers during the two years and and this research
shows and right now it's across five different countries. It

(19:15):
shows that, you know, first of all, the teachers believe
much more in their students and in their potential and
in the students families at the end of their two
year commitment even than they did at the beginning UM
And and also it shows that they shift from viewing
the problems as kind of a technical problem to understanding
the problem and it's full complexity, so that ultimately they

(19:37):
understand the nature of the problem and the solutions in
a way that's very similar to the way people with
the lived experience of the the inequities view the solution.
So what we're seeing is that this experience really shapes
them into the leaders we need, you know, people who
have a sense of possibility, who believe in their kids,

(19:57):
who understand the complexity of the issue and the complexity
of the solutions, and who are who have deep commitment
to this work long term. So very true, and what
a tremendous investment it makes beyond education, going to the
root of other issues that have to be addressed because
of these inequities. Senecas one hundred women to hear. We'll

(20:23):
be back after the short break. So some seventeen years
after you started Teach for America, you started Teach for All.
You told us a little bit about what it does.

(20:44):
Can you tell us what went into that process and
how it came about and maybe how it works. Each
of the organizations in the Teach for All network are
united by certain principles. We have, you know, ten unifying
innciples that you know or you could write on half
a page of paper, but they say a lot um

(21:06):
and they're there. They represent commitments to as I said before,
I shared purpose and and theory of change and vision
um and also to the kind of high level programmatic
principles and organizational principles. So there's a lot that brings
us together, but it's at the level of principles and

(21:28):
commitments UM, and and nothing is prescribed in terms of
how to live into those principles. So each of these
network partners are are you know, deeply rooted in in
their own contexts and and you know, work to adapt
this approach in ways that make the most sense UM.
And then we have a global organization that is just

(21:50):
all about supporting those network partners to learn from each other.
And so I think what we've seen over time is that,
you know, is just the power of of a of
an approach like this to lead to deeply rooted you know,
locally rooted but also globally informed UM to practice. And
we see that at the organizational level, but now also

(22:13):
at the level of the teachers and the alumni of
these organizations, who are you know, again both locally rooted
but also part of networks of of you know, teachers
and alumni pursuing similar agendas in different communities around the world.
And we've just seen that, UM, We've seen the tremendous potential,
let's just say, of UM of that approach in fostering

(22:38):
and fueling innovation and the spread of innovation and ultimately
accelerating progress. So it has this extraordinary ripple effect that
goes on to exponentially affects so much more so in
the process of doing all of this, you're clearly developing
leaders who bring change to their communities and beyond. You know,

(22:58):
at Seneca, where so focused on women's leadership, does teach
for all go about developing girls and women as leaders
in any particular way. We do. We have developed over
time Girls Education Initiative because you know, many of our
network partners are are working in countries where you know,

(23:20):
girls are are some of the most marginalized in the world.
You know, from Afghanistan to Pakistan to Sierra Leone and
Nigeria and Nepal, etcetera, where um, you know the the
I guess you know, we just see girls attending school
and persisting through school and the expectations of girls just

(23:44):
at a totally different level. And what we've seen is that,
you know, whether girls have the chances they deserve has
everything to do with whether there is a local leader
and advocate in that local community who is working towards
as ends um. And I've personally seen you know, so
many of the teacher leaders across our network have have

(24:07):
a truly transformative effect on the expectations and possibilities for
girls in their community. So seeing that scene, you know,
I think about some of the villages in Nepal. At
one point a few years ago, I was able to
meet with successive cohorts of teaching fellows in a particular
village in Nepal who had had taught over a period

(24:30):
of seven years in this village, and they shared what
the expectations of girls were when the first cohort arrived
versus when the last you know who was still there
it was was there and it's just like complete transformation.
You know, they watched their girls go off and get
the most prestigious scholarships in the country after you know

(24:50):
when when in the beginning, they weren't even thinking that
their girls should attend school. So we've just seen the
transformative effect and that led us to create a Girls
Education Fellowship. So we've you know, really invested in hundreds
of the teaching fellows across our network who are working
in these settings in exposing them to the knowledge, the mindsets,

(25:13):
the understanding to pursue essentially gender sensitive education UM and
and we're working to to expand that effort now as
we speak. In fact, you do unlock so much. You know,
as you were speaking, I was thinking about the fact
that talent is universal, that opportunity is not, and you

(25:34):
really are an opportunity provider in so many ways in
what you do, and it makes such a difference. I'm wondering,
since we're all still recovering and others are still going
through the brutal consequences of the pandemic, how has it
affected teach for all operations around the globe. You know, first,

(25:56):
I would say, I think you all to state the
obvious that the situation has just compounded and exacerbated the
inequities that that we're addressing. It has also, I think
been very affirming for our network in the sense that,
you know, we saw the teachers and alumni educators across

(26:19):
our network just lean in to keep their own students
safe and learning, and then very quickly, you know, be
enlisted by their government ministries and others to keep many
other kids learning, whether through leveraging radio and TV or
creating the kind of digital school houses, the libraries of

(26:39):
videos and podcasts and all that any teachers and students
and parents could access to you know, literally training tens
of thousands of other teachers in digital learning strategies. UM.
So I think on the one hand, it's been very
affirming for the kind of types of people like the
leaders our network partners are developed being UM and and

(27:01):
at the same time it's it's really shown us the
value and the impact of having a network that enables
those local leaders to learn from each other. I mean,
we just saw solutions flying across our our network. UM.
Back in March when when the pandemic became a truly
global phenomenon. You know, we had overnight teachers and teaching

(27:25):
without internet, WhatsApp groups in four different languages just sharing solutions. UM.
You know, we saw the teacher for Nigeria teachers go
to their government and say, the only way we're going
to keep our kids learning is if we can take
over the government radio station, and and we sent that
out across our network, and soon many other folks, I
mean the Chilean alumni, sixty of them came together and

(27:48):
said that's what we're gonna do. And and now they've
they've built a lasting radio you know, programming that's on
two hundred radio stations. So we just really saw how
my which we can accelerate progress through through you know,
having both locally rooted leaders who are also who also
have platforms to learn from each other. Um But I

(28:10):
would also say this has been an era of so
much learning and so much innovation, just as as all educators,
including those across our network, you know, stepped out of
the box that has defined education for you know, decades
and decades and and had to resort to new means
to keep kids learning. And I think we've seen just

(28:32):
new mindsets about the power of leveraging technology, the power
of engaging in a still deeper way with parents, and
the importance of integrating at every stage social emotional learning
and focus on student well being. UM So we're very
focused as we go forth on both thinking about what

(28:55):
we can do to continue growing a force of extraordinary
leaders committed to this issue, you know, developing a still
more interconnected and learning global community, and essentially anchoring those innovations.
You know, how can we not go back to a
status quo that wasn't meeting the needs of all kids?

(29:15):
How can we leverage the new mindsets and and the
new innovations to come back differently in a way that
really sets kids up, um, you know, to shape a
better future for themselves and for all of us. Yeah,
And I think it's going to be really important because
in in so many poorer countries in particular, girls in
the lockdown obviously left school, and it's calculated that millions

(29:40):
and millions of them may not go back, and so
your network, I think it's also going to be extremely
essential and trying to find those innovative ways to ensure
they're back in the classroom. Yes, and whether they do
come back will again have so much to do with

(30:01):
whether there are local you know, teachers and and and
others in their communities who were determined to bring them back.
You know. I think about a conversation not too long
ago with the teacher for Afghanistan Fellows, these women who
are working in the Nonger Horror and our One regions

(30:22):
of Afghanistan, and they were talking about their experience, and
I was realizing how much time they spend essentially in
working to you know, convinced families, inspire families to send
their girls to school. And I remember just talking to
them and saying, how often are you successful? Like I
was thinking, cush, is it like half the time or
and they looked at me so confused. They said, of

(30:43):
course we're always successful. Like we're from the communities, people
trust us. And that was so striking to me. You know,
we have our perceptions from from Afar, but with I've
just really come to see that with enough local leaders
admitted to ensuring that opportunity is equally distributed, we really

(31:05):
can change mindsets and and and and change the reality
for for a whole you know, for future generations of kids.
That's a wonderful story. You know. Given that, uh, and
the operations that you're involved in, the network, the extensive
network around the globe, do you think you're creating in

(31:25):
some ways a more effective model for foreign assistance, a
better way, for example, for richer countries to be more
supportive of poorer countries, particularly in education. I've thought so
much about this over time. UM. You know, I guess
what I've seen through our work is just the power

(31:49):
of really intentional efforts to cultivate local leadership. UM. And
you know, I think so much about what it would
take to shift our international aid paradigm from one that
is intervention lad meaning like people from of our think

(32:11):
of and see evidence that interventions work and they work
to spread them to both developing context Like, what if
we shifted from that towards an approach that was you know,
people first, that first decided to prioritize the investing in
the agency and the leadership development of the people in

(32:32):
developing contexts so that they can can actually develop the
contextualized solutions. And you know, from what I've seen, that's
the path to truly sustainable change. UM. So we're in
fact working with a group of other like minded organizations,
UM you know, and and donors and other kind of

(32:54):
stakeholders in the in the international aid system too. Really
think about what it would take to shift in that direction,
what it would take to sizeably increase our focus on
advancing the leadership of of the people who themselves are
um are are in the in the local communities. I

(33:14):
mean to me, that's that's the promise of this effort
at an even bigger level. You know, this has been
such a rich conversation, Wendy, and I'm so grateful to you,
But let me ask you one final question, since we've
already exhausted our time together, it would be really wonderful
to know what gives you hope. What makes you optimistic? Obviously,

(33:38):
you have developed these extraordinary programs that have such impact
at home and around the world, and you've seen much
that has come about because of them. What gives you
great optimism? You know? Um, I feel so lucky to
see every day, Um, just a group of people who

(34:02):
are who are just so deeply committed to pouring everything
they have into creating a more equitable world. And I
think that's what gives me optimism to see you know,
young people, recent college graduates and allies you know, all
over the world lamoring to put their full time energy

(34:24):
into the communities in their country where their energy is
needed most. And then in turn, to see you know,
the students and young people growing up today who have
so much leadership potential and and are already exerting that
leadership which I think we've seen during this pandemic era
in spades. Um. So that's what gives me optimism. Um,

(34:48):
this is just to be surrounded by so many people
with just infectious, deeply you know, deep commitment. Well, thank
you so much, Wendy Cup. You have certainly enabled so
many to have that potential you just talked about be
tapped because of the work that you've done over at

(35:10):
least three decades now to make a difference. We are
so grateful to you. May it continue and may you
continue to prosper well. Thank you so much. So appreciate
your vote of confidence. Um and yeah, really appreciated the conversation.

(35:32):
That's the kind of bold vision that gives us all
hope for the future. There are three things I took
from that conversation with the remarkable Wendy cop First, no
matter where you go, people want to create positive change
in their own communities. As Teach for All shows, local

(35:53):
people and governments working together will find the most effective
ways to make education and opportunity widely available. Second, education
is transformative and not just for students. Wendy says that
after two years and a Teach for All program, the

(36:14):
teachers believe much more in their students and their potential,
and they have a greater understanding of the possibilities of
the educational system. In essence, they transform into true leaders
and champions of children. Finally, when a country educates its girls,

(36:35):
everyone benefits and mindsets change. Wendy told about communities and
a pall that used to believe girls did not be
long in school. That changed after girls started attending classes
and winning the most prestigious scholarships in the country. Education
is the key to opening up so many possibilities for girls.

(37:00):
Tune in next time to hear about our next featured
woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's one hundred
Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is
a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I
Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG Have a
Great Day.