February 12, 2025 • 54 mins
If you’re looking to get mindful using energy healing practices while broadening your wellness journeys, this will hit. Zoe is joined by Kasey Crown and Jakki Leonardini of WellSoul and the trio give an inside look to the company’s wellness retreat that Zoe swears by to help treat her anxiety.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. Hi,
welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler. Today,
I have two incredible women joining me as guests, and
I know them personally and I work with one of
them as my healer. I've talked about her before on
this podcast. Her name is Jackie Leonardini. She's a clairvoyant,
(00:24):
an energy healer, and a certified soul coach. Casey Crown,
her partner, is a trans personal psychotherapist, consultant, wellness educator,
and activist. Her work challenges old mental health paradigms and
suggests that true wellbeing lies in our ability to balance
scientific and spiritual perspectives. They have created something called the
Well Soul Workshop. I've gone twice and it's changed my life.
(00:46):
Let's let them in, Okay, So I just want to
thank you guys for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I have talked about Jackie many times on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I work with her once a.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Week and Kate See is her partner in Welsaull Workshop.
She's also, as I said earlier, an incredible, incredible therapist
and human being and friend, and I begged her to
be my therapist, but that would be beyond inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So instead every time I see her, I just corner her.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But I wanted you guys first of all. I want
to talk about Welsoul Workshop and what it did for
me as a human being, and what it has done
for so many of my friends, and how you guys
came up with the idea before we jump into everything else.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Katie, why didn't you jump in and tell the origin
story of our partnership.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so thank you for having us, Zoe. Thank you
for so fun to be here with you. I got
to be with you this weekend. I'm going to get
to be with you next weekend. So I feel like
I'm getting a lot of Zoe right now. Exciting and Yeah.
So we started well Soul. This is our eighth year
(02:09):
facilitating workshops, which is crazy. And we came together probably
ten years ago doing some work. I actually had Jackie
du A reading for me. She was referred by a friend,
and we both knew kind of pretty quickly that we
(02:30):
would be working together at some point. While I am
a therapist and my kind of clinical work is in
the treatment of trauma, especially, my background is actually also
an energy medicine and the study of consciousness, and so
there was a lot of overlap in our kind of approach,
(02:53):
and so we came together, you know, just working in
a personal way for quite a while, and then I
began to refer clients who I had been working with
in my practice to Jackie to do a little bit,
do kind of a deeper dive into the energetic component.
(03:17):
And we began to find that there was this kind
of magic happening with the clients that we were working
with together, you know, even though we would see them separately,
there was this kind of integration that was occurring in
combining our two modalities that we found really impactful and thought, Okay,
(03:39):
I think we have something here. Let's try workshops, see
how it goes. See if we can't kind of put
a curriculum together that Mary's integrative Psychology, interpersonal neurobiology and
energy medicine, and see what emerges from that experience. And
you know, of course, as is the case often when
(04:01):
you start any programming, it was all kind of like
friends and family at those first two workshops, and it
gave us a chance to refine our curriculum and really
kind of work with people and see what worked and
what didn't and now here we are eight years later.
(04:21):
We have a pretty kind of robust curriculum that is
our flagship workshop. We've gone on to develop a second
curriculum as well that's focused very specifically on the topic
of judgment and coming into balance around our relationship to judgment.
(04:42):
But yeah, we love it. I mean, I think Jackie
and I both have really full private practices, and you know,
we love working one on one with clients. But there's
something really really special and magical about getting a group
of people together with a shared intention and to grow
and to heal and to be vulnerable. And there's just
(05:09):
a magic that happens in the room at Walsall. And
you know, Friday night, when people arrived, they're terrified, usually
especially if they've never been so, but by Sunday, everybody's like,
you know, there's a real kind of camaraderie and energy
that's moved through the group.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And so yeah, it's a really special experience.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I went in twenty nineteen and then again last year,
and it was the difference between the two times was
so interesting because it felt like the first time I
was so nervous. I'd never meditated before, I'd never gotten
into my own body before, and I've talked about that,
(05:52):
I've struggled with anxiety my entire life. And I was
so like, I just kept saying, I'm never going to
be able to do this.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I'm never going to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And then by Sunday, I felt like I didn't even
want to go home, you know, like I mean, I
wanted to go home, but I was so I felt
so safe and so good and emotional in all the things.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And it was hard.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
But and the second time, I felt much more ready
to sort of begin the journey, and I felt much
I just felt like, oh, I can do this, and
this is what it looks like.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Well, you know, it's fun having you at Walthol the
first time, but you know, the energy that you bring
in the room is always like bubbly and full of humor.
And I think, you know, when we're facing our shadow work,
which is what we ask people to do when they
come to Walsol, which sounds like it's really daunting, actually
(06:52):
we have we have a lot of fun doing it,
like looking at ourselves from this neutral place of saying
I want to be aware of who I am entirely
the wholeness of me so that I can feel comfortable
and trust that I'm on this journey to evolve.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So there is no judgment, there's just it is what
it is.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Where our anxieties, our fears are, you know, our trauma
that we've experienced in our life all can be transformed
or transmuted into this tremendous amount of growth, clarity and
actually allow us to find that center within ourselves again
(07:37):
to where being embodied, we're not cringing all the time
or white neffling it through life because we're like, oh, okay,
you know, things are supposed to be bumpy, and when
I hit the bump, I have a tool. I know
what to do, and I think you know what I
love about sharing well Soul weekends with people is that
(07:59):
Casey and I get an opera unity to practice along
with you, so you know, we're there to share tools
that help us navigate.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
The stress of life just in general, and or.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Any type of hardship or pain that we experience doesn't
have to destroy us. It can actually expand us if
we feel equipped within ourselves too through you know. And
the neat thing about when Casey and I came together
is We're both very spiritual within a divine practice. You know,
(08:36):
spirit means energy, divinity is love, and it is that's
where the healings found. And so I think we make
a real point of that at Walsall, and that creates
a safe environment for people to come and open up,
you know, and use humor. The humor is key because
(08:57):
you know, you hear us say.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
You know, if you can what is it? I'd rather
be amused than abused, right, So if I can find
that amusement even in.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
The darkest hour, it will lead me through it. And
I think that's really key.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, So Casey and I met actually the first day
of baby group with our oldest children.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh my god, are.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You sure you want to tell this story?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Casey told the story. I really I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
During the fires, we evacuated to o Hi and Casey
lives in Ohi, and so I went. We saw her
and she was telling the story about the first time
we met. That was like, that was so it was
just like it was so me, just like on any.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Day, but she was so she was like, what is
this being?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Who is this?
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I'm gonna tell it?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I told her I'd never met her kind before.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I was walking back to the room with Deborah, our friend, Deborah,
we have a mutual friend, and I was like, it's
so interesting, like it made an impact on her because
that was just like that in the life.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Of Zoe Winkler. Oh my god. I mean it was
so funny, Like, you know, I show up to baby
group and I'm walking down the street with my baby
and Zoe gets out of her car. I see her, like,
I don't know her. She sees that I have a baby,
(10:24):
so she must think we're going to the same baby group.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
We've never met, I've never seen her life.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Never met, and she just gets out of the car
and she's like looks at me and may have even
grabbed me like physically and was like the baby right
all the way from Burley Hills to Santa Monica. He
didn't take a breath, and like she she just like
goes on in this kind of like hilarious, sort of
(10:53):
hysterical like explanation of her drive.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
And also who was in the car with me? Who
was baby shatters in the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm like, dude, he was like.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was like, what is going on with this? Lady.
So anyway, we go to baby group. Needless to say,
it was my first and last baby group. I never
came back, and it was not because of you, Zoe,
but I then we met years later because our kids
went to school together and and it's you know, she's amazing.
(11:27):
I love you.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You're so funny. And and by the way, like I
just want to say, you know, kind of you know,
just in reference to what you were saying about your
two different weal soul experiences, like when you first came
to Wealsaul, like I think one of the things that
(11:49):
happens when we haven't done and you had been in
therapy before, Like it wasn't like your first rodeo in
terms of like doing inner work, but it was. It's
a different kind of inner work that we do out. Also,
it's not traditional psychotherapy. There's not you know, we don't
follow a traditional method. And I think like the most
(12:10):
important thing that we like to kind of like tell
people and to help break the ice is like like
who you are is okay, and like in all of
its messiness and in all of its chaos and all
of right, like the biggest, the scariest hurdle that I
think all of us have to overcome when we start
to do inner work is we have to kind of
break agreements with the lie that like something is wrong
(12:32):
with us, like that we're fundamentally problematic in some way.
And most of us, until we've done inner work, have
a lot of shame, right, and we have a lot
of stories that we're constantly kind of circulating. And I
think oftentimes when people come to wel So for the
first time, that first workshop is just like about, oh,
(12:53):
like I have permission to accept myself for who I am,
Like I can work on all of this shit for
you know ever, and I will, but like I can't
even begin to work on it until I can kind
of break through this initial like just judgment, judgment and
move into this space of self love where I go like, Okay,
(13:15):
here I am in all of my messiness and like
all of my history.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And also how many times judgment comes in without even
knowing that it's judgment, like with sometimes you know you,
and that is what has helped me so much, and
with well souls also, like I was, I've been in
therapy since I was seven years old, so I mean
I'm forty four.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's a long time.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I was, and it was and it was amazing and
it was a privilege and I'm so lucky and I'm
so grateful to my parents that they were like, oh,
something's going on, but I wouldn't come out from the
table after the earthquake. They were like, huh, she should
talk to someone. But I, you know it, it didn't
really give me the toolbox I needed because it wasn't
(14:00):
stuff that we could talk about it and talk about
it and talk about it. But it wasn't until I
found you two. And you you know, I means as friends,
but also as you know, as fill energy workers, facilitators, whatever, doctors.
I mean that I could actually have a toolbox that
(14:22):
I could do. And I have a notes app in
my phone and I write down the thing so that
when I'm feeling like just sort of like I'm about
to get out of my body kind of and I'm
going to just let all my energy go, I try
to just call it back.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And there are these things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And it's funny because I was actually able to tell
my dad because one of the things that you guys
teach us is that if you're just feeling completely like fragmented.
Just say your name three times, and it doesn't have
to be out loud. It could be quiet, it could
be in your head, but kind of calling your energy back.
And I know that I have a lot of listeners
that are not in LA and that are not that
(14:58):
this might I said, you know, this might sound confusing
or silly, but it's.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So just try it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And so when my dad he has anxiety too, and
so I said to him, like, just say your name
three times. Say your name three times, And he said
that now he does that sometimes, like when he gets
like really you know. So I thought that that was
such an amazing thing and that was just one of
the thousands of tools that you guys have kind of
given me and given so many people that get the
opportunity to do this.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
I really love that because that is the that tool
of saying your name is.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
It's it's kind of magical, but it's obvious.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
At the same time, think about when somebody calls, you know,
for people that are listening and maybe thinking we're a little.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Cuckoo, and I do.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
If you're in public, you know, to say it to
yourself because you make it a few looks, but you know, I.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Don't care anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
I'm so like you know, I've been doing this, saying
my name three times for fifteen years now to call
my energy back. And even though I practice this every
single day when I feel fragmented, you're basically saying, come
back to me. You're getting your own attention, right, And
so you think about when somebody else says your name,
your attention goes there, where your intention goes you know,
(16:17):
as we all know, your energy flows that direction. So
when you're calling your yourself back, your energy is going
to come back to you your It's a moment in
which you can attune and center and remember, okay, I'm
right here right now. It's the first step toward being present,
and you know in present there's a wholeness that happens. Again,
(16:40):
we want our energy to be with us so that
we can direct it and be intentional with what we're
going to focus on. And and you know you mentioned anxiety.
Anxiety is this It really does take our energy. And
you could picture your energy kind of pulling apart because
it's going way out in the future, usually right in
(17:03):
the future into the what ifs, or in the past
into the well what was wrong? And Why did that happen?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Why did that happen to me? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
And you can just all your energy now is in
all these places trying to find this answer and it's
not right there with you. And the process of you know,
discernment is to say, Okay, what's true right here.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Right now? What is it that you know? Where am I?
Am I in fear or am I in you know?
Am I in the what ifs?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Because if I'm in the what ifs, then I need
to come back and into the what is right here,
right now true in order to find my center and
in that moment then clarity can happen.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So that tool of.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Saying your name three times is the is the first
step to finding that your your The word I want
to use, I guess is to calibrate your compass, your
innercom this back to you.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
There's been times when I'm like crashing out on social
media and I'll be like, yeah, because I have a
private account that is just for my family and friends,
and it's not you know, it's like just me losing
my mind all the time, and Casey will be like
reach out and just be like, I see that you're
going through this moment.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Or I'll send you a meme that's just like girl,
check yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You reel it in because it's like, you know, it's
like you don't just give away your energy. You know,
you don't just lose your energy or or sort of
like I guess misplace it when it's just when you're
like it can also be just in so many different
ways that aren't even tangible.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, And I will also say, like we offer a
lot of tools like that that are that are subtle,
kind of more energetic tools. But the other thing about anxiety,
and I think you know, Zoe you can relate to
this is people with anxiety oftentimes have really unruly minds.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's like your unruly mind coupled with some insecurity or vulnerability, right.
And so one of the things that you've described in
the past, if I can share it here, is yeah,
of course, is you know that like you'll be in
an environment and experience something, right, a look, a tone
of voice, you know, whatever it might be from someone
(19:31):
in that space, and immediately it will kind of like
grab you at your most vulnerable and insecure space inside
your body. And once that kind of embodied reaction is triggered,
you then go into a pretty complex story around it, right,
and you are not alone in doing that. That is
(19:52):
part of like the whole kind of system of anxiety
that we all experience. So, but then what happens is
the story or that we tell ourselves obviously is the
one that causes the most suffering. And so a big
part of what you know we're working with people around you, know,
is it's not just about calling all of your fragmented
(20:13):
energy back and getting yourself into present time, which is
incredibly important. You really can't heal from from outside of
the present moment. But it's also about beginning to evaluate
and look at where have you created a story or
gone into agreement with a story that's creating suffering for you.
And one of the biggest things that I think we
(20:34):
try to teach people at welshol is how to break agreements.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
It's like we are in this kind of perpetual state
of creating these unconscious contracts with stories, right that are
pretty much manufactured out of thin air. Right, there may
be some truth to them, and sometimes there is It's
true that person gave me a weird look, or it's
true that that person might be having a bad day
and used a tone of voye with me that felt
(21:01):
like aggressive or whatever it is. But the kind of
story that gets, you know, created out of that experience
is the one that we're trying to interrupt and to
not only in like, it's not just about breaking agreements
with the story that's not serving us, but it's also
about what are my choices right, What is the most
(21:23):
generous interpretation of this moment that I can lean into, right?
And and we want to start to practice that, We
have to practice moving into a more generous interpretation so
that we can create that not only that inner safety,
but harmony in our relationships and you know, not only
with ourselves but with others. So the story is a
(21:46):
big part of the anxiety, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Mary, And it's so and sometimes the story feels so
real that it's hard to know the difference between you know,
like you're like wait. Sometimes I even will be like wait,
did that really happen? It's not just you know, the
story that I'm telling myself right now in the world
feels so heavy with the fires and you know, in
La but just everywhere the world.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Just feels to me.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Like there's just so much chaos going on how do
you stay centered? How do you stay how do you
protect yourself from that? Because I haven't figured that out yet.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Oh, we don't stay centered?
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Is that something you were misled to believe?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I think I was. I was under the illusion.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Okay, So you projected a story onto us that we
are centered. Oh that's right, Okay, Great, the lie, the
big lie is working, Jackie.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
We've fooled everyone. I mean, I'll say this.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I you know, grief is really heavy right now in
the atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
It's and you know, I tune into it every day.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
A lot of our friends, a lot of our community
has been affected in Los Angeles, and and even if
it wasn't, how can you not feel the magnitude of
of what's occurred. And so it's been hard to sit
in it and go, whoa wait a minute, you know.
And you know, last night I was sitting and thinking
(23:17):
about this is what I do. I was sitting and
thinking about when all of the people and I watched
the Fiery concert that was so you know, wonderful, and
and I thought about all the wild animals and I
just started to cry in it. And and that's where
the tool comes in. It's like, Okay, I'm going to
feel it. We have to feel.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
We can't bypass the moment of pain. The moment of
pain is a worthy moment to give attention to and
just say, in this pain, where is the light? Where
can I find the wisdom from this this grief that
I'm feeling so so deeply.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And you know I went through.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I live in Napa and in twenty seventeen my whole
neighborhood burned and our house was thankfully.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Did not.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Our property burned, but our home was fine, and so
you know, I had a sense of the devastating feeling.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
But I don't even need to have that sense.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
We all think, you know, stop for a second, and
when we think about, how does this apply to me?
If that was me, that's empathy, which is really really important.
But then we want to we can go into sympathy
and say I'm so sorry, but we want to stop
ourselves before we judge it as being a terrible thing.
We want to stop ourselves and say, where's the light here?
(24:45):
And how can I help bring the light. And that's
what helps me always come back to my center. When
I asked that question, just that question alone, Like, how
can we find light here? This is terrible, but I
know there's a way through, And I think that's for me,
what is my coping mechanism? When I fall out of
(25:07):
my center and need to get back, It's like that's
the life raft. And then once you're on the life raft,
you can begin to see the way is it?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Also like sometimes I think we've talked about this, like
nothing is done to you, it's not happening to you.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, there's something important.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Not having to do with this, not having to do
with this disaster, but just in general, like as a
human being, not this is very different.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Well yeah, I mean not really. Crisis is crisis, disasters, disaster,
people experience it every day all over the world. So
we don't get to conveniently choose like a mindset around
something only when it feels like comfortable and safe to
have that mindset. I think where we try to help
(25:57):
people move is, you know, don't we don't say everything
happens for a reason, because it doesn't. We live in
a chaotic universe. That's just how energy works. We try
to keep people out of victim consciousness, right, there are
(26:17):
real victims in the human experience that goth that are
people that are victimized and go through terrible injustices and
terrible things. But the kind of like ongoing relationship to
the experience is what we're looking at, right, Because when
you experience a trauma like the fires, like when you're
(26:37):
in an acute state of distress and in an acute
state of trauma and in an acute state of grief,
you're going to feel all the feelings, and you have
permission to feel all the feelings. You have permission to
be angry and feel the injustice and be in despair
and feel and ask why why me?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Why right? Those are the kinds of things that happen
to us when we're in an acute state of trauma.
And so part of our job when we're working with
people that are in acute crisis is to first and
foremost just be with them in that and let them
know they're not alone, right, and that it's okay to
have all the feelings that they're feeling. Now. Our job
is also to help people move through into you know,
(27:20):
the healing process, right. So it's like when you're in
the acute stage, you're not yet healing. You're mostly just
experiencing the suffering, and then when there's some readiness established
to start to move the energy toward healing, we are
going to then work with how do we right rise
from the ashes of this moment? How do we look
(27:42):
at this experience that's incredibly difficult and hold the duality
of the experience, hold the complexity of this experience. It
can both be devastating and horrific and terrible and hard,
and it can also be a miracle and an opportunity.
And you know, it can reflect back to us how
strong we are, and how creative we are, and how
(28:02):
capable we are. So we are you know, we really
want to hold the container for all of the things.
Where we as facilitators and as practitioners see that things
start to become problematic is when people stay attached to
the victim story.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
When you stay attached to the victim store, you're keeping
your energy and attention stuck in the past, so you're
reliving that trauma over and over again and unwilling At
some level, there's a rigidity that's established that makes it
difficult to move into the part where we want to
learn from the experience. Right, And so what you just
said Zoe is things don't happen to you, they happen
(28:42):
for you. Yes, it's really hard to say that to
someone that's in acute state of trauma. They might be
like a few, that's just you know, not what I
need to hear right now, right. But when we reflect
back on an experience, oftentimes we're able to see how
much we've grown from it, and we say, oh, like,
there were a lot of opportunities for me in that
(29:02):
really devastating experience to become this version of myself that's
so much more capable and wise and strong. And so
I see every trauma as an opportunity for growth. But
it doesn't mean that we bypass the acute distress that
people are experiencing in the moment. I don't know if
that helps frame kind of.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, it does.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I want to add to that.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
So the saying you know everything happens you see that
saying everywhere you know everything happens for you. Right, doesn't
happen to you, But sometimes things do happen to you.
Like Casey said, someone doesn't intend to harm you. There's
intentionality out there in this world to create and to destroy, right,
(29:49):
to create a destructive situation, but it as beings that
we have the opportunity always to transmute that into happening
for us. And so I think, you know the Casey's point,
that's a process. So nothing really can happen to us
(30:11):
as long as we know and can find right that
place within us the support network as well, in order
to emerge from any situation.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And be transformed by it.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
And that's a choice, and sometimes it's hard to make
that choice on your own when you're when something devastating
occurs in our life, and that's where community comes in.
That's where leaning on one another to say, you know,
I'm you know, I'm devastated right now.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
I need a hand.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
And I think that's that's what we're witnessing in Los
Angeles right now.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
So we can choose to put our focus on, you know,
all of the trauma and tragedy that's happened, and we
need to look at it, and then we have to
choose to look at all of the help, look at
the sense of community, and when we hold on to
one another and come together in generosity and love, it
(31:11):
will transform anything. And I think as long as we
can remember that then nothing does.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Nothing can happen to you. Everything can happen for you.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
But it takes that fundamental shift in understanding that what
is the thing that's going to transmute it, and that
is to be generous with love and to be supportive
of one another and meet people where they are.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
And it's really hopeful to me to see.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
That happening right now in La and in places all
over the world.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
That's where I'm going to choose to focus.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
I'm going to choose to give that meaning and attention
because the more we attend to that, the more that
will grow.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You guys have both been doing this practice for so long.
Do you sometimes forget and like just completely lose your
minds or.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Do you just.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I mean, that's why I was saying, do we really
give you the illusion that we found our center?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah. I mean, like what we're really good at is
showing people the way to the center. Holding the center
is a whole different story. And so the more you
practice the tools right, the more you interrupt the story,
the more you run your energy, call your energy back,
(32:31):
the more you set intensions and activate your creativity to
like really focus on your capacity to choose, right, Like,
the more integrated you become over time. So can I
hold my center now? Probably more than I could in
(32:54):
the past, absolutely, particularly around it. And there are a
lot of things that might have kind of thrown me
out of center in the past that are just non
issues now they just like wouldn't ever take me out
of neutral. But we are evolutionary beings constantly growing, so
there is no point at which you achieve some like
(33:18):
you know, enlightenment. Enlightenment is yeah, and this kind of embodiment.
We're here to learn and grow. We're human beings. So
like the you know, no matter how much work we do,
there's always another opportunity for us to go deeper, you know,
to widen our lens and zoom out even more, to
practice a new set of tools. Tools also atrophy, Like
(33:39):
you can use the same tools for a while and
then realize, like gosh, like this isn't working for me
right now. I need to like move the energy, shift
the energy, come up with a creative new tool to
like kind of get myself into present time or whatever
it may be. So we do use the tools, we
practice them. It helps us stick, you know, bring ourselves
(34:02):
back to center when we're throwing off, we can't. You
guys should have a cheat sheet making a work book.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, that's I'm sorry, I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
That's what you guys should do. And because because I
know you guys are.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You do workshops in Ohai, Napa and you just started
in that Wait where is it?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
The new one in New York in Hudson Valley in
New York.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
And then but if you can't get to those places.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, how do I mean? We're so a couple of
things we're trying to do shorter. First of all, we're
doing we do a lot of private workshops too, So
if you have a group or you know, we've been
doing quite a few of those.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
My lifers and I are going to do one.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
We're yeah to get the date, yea.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So those can be one day. We're coming to La
to do one for some people that were affected by
the fires in March. They can be multi day or whatever.
So people can reach out to us if for for
those opportunities. But we're working on a workbook. But also
you know, we work in private practice. There's all sorts
(35:07):
of ways to kind of connect with us, but we
really need to kind of get our workbook out there
and expand our you know reach. So yeah, that is
part of the intention going forward. We've just been so
kind of inundated with work for the last eight years
that we've been doing the workshop, so we keep trying
(35:28):
to expand beyond a certain point, but then we just
both get pulled into work.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And you guys are both so like Jackie the other day,
we had to re reschedule our session and she was like,
my six am just canceled, And I was like, have
you lost your mind? I will never meet with you
at six am for some time. Sleepings, I get like,
but it's just like, you guys are both just I mean,
and I'm sure it's because as the world gets, as
(35:53):
life gets crazier and busier, you know, more people are
but it's.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
It's we're definite only service providers.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I mean, yeah, we love it. I have to say,
you know, there's when I don't have like a full day,
I don't know what to do with myself.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
I mean, so I ask for balance every day.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
I set my intention that my day has some balance
and that you know, I realized that I'm never on
this journey by myself. I thank God that you know,
I have people like you, Zoe and you know Casey
in my life that I love and it brings me
great joy. And but you know what we were talking
about earlier, and I think what's really important and interesting
(36:37):
if somebody wants to come to a well soul, what
we're really helping you build is resilience. And so, you know,
I may lose my shit, but I'm not going to
lose it for a day.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I'm maybe going to lose it, depends on what it is, but.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Most likely because I was very reactive. I'm Italian and
Sicilian to boot, and my mom and I grew up
in a long lineage of very reactive people, so you know,
everything was, you know, everything was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Everything in common.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
Yeah, It's like something would spill on the floor and
I'd hear my.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Mom go, oh my god, and then yeah, you know, customers,
I'm like, what what happened?
Speaker 4 (37:15):
She's like, oh, I dropped the milk. I'm like, okay. So,
you know, I don't want to live my life like that.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
I don't want to live my life where I'm always
reacting to.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I want to be in stillness and responding and so.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
The act of stillness for me, take a deep breath
and then go, Okay, what is this right now in
front of me? And I'm going to stay still until
I can find that center, and then I'll respond.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
And if it takes a minute, or it takes a
day or two, it does.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
And I think that that that alone has allowed life
to get so much more joyful for me because I'm
not always reacting.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
And and.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You know, and I'm sure, I'm sure it gets a
little easier not to react when your kids are grown
up and out of the house. Yeah, I'm still working
on that.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Have three children basically the same age. Though you know,
it's oh God in response, Yeah, well kids are supposed
to poke you.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
There's i mean, the neat thing about being a parent.
And I'm kind of on the other side my kids
are grown. But I always thought, oh wow, I remember
having this experience in eighth grade.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
That you are now having, you know, my one of
my kids.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
And then I thought, and now I'm as torn up
about it now for you as I was for me.
And that's that process of lighting up so we can
face something again. Our children are there doing their jobs
when they're triggering us. Because it's our opportunity to face
something again and make a new choice. And that's I
(39:00):
think that's really key for those parents who are in
the thick of it. When I look back now, you know,
I had so many opportunities to make a new choice
and to handle things with grace and to show.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
That, to model that for my kids.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
And even if they don't listen at first, and even
if they don't you think they're not listening at all,
I will tell you if you consistently stay in what
you note and what you value and hold at it.
When your kids are the ages of mine, they'll say
to me. My kids say to me all the time,
you know, Mom, I'm really glad that you you know
that you didn't let us have the phone at the
(39:34):
dinner table, or I'm really glad, I'm like really used
to like have a tantrum every night with the dinner
time at our house. I would dread because it was
like always tears, or you know, and or my son
will say, you know, I go out to dinner with
people and they have terrible man I'm so glad you
taught me manners. I used to say to my husband,
can we like take the night off from manners because
(39:55):
I just like a peaceful dinner. You know, it's like
put your napkin on your lap.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
But when he I'd be like no. And so you've
got to hang in there with what you value. And
it doesn't matter if their head spins and they grow,
you know, more arms and snakes are coming out of
their head. You just got to stay in And it
doesn't mean you're a bad parent, you know, because your
kids are freaking out all the time, and it's like
(40:19):
you know, energy.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Flying, it actually means you're doing your job. And and
so I think I laugh when because you know, I'm
not in that stage. I get to go to Casey's
house with their kids and they are many. They are wilful,
and I love it. And if your children are wilful,
that's awesome because I try to.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Remind myself of that, Yeah, I want them to be
you know, you want them to Yeah, you want them
to be strong.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I say that to my mom all the time, And
I think that sometimes Gus and I I think that
there's parts of all three of my kids that i'm
that are so similar to me, Like Ace and I
share like really strong bond. Jules and I share really
strong bond. Gus nice share really strong bond. There's parts
of Ace that I remember feeling the exact same way
(41:07):
he is. And then there I look at Gus and
he is me in so many ways. And for us
that's like this, you know, we just are like all right,
let's go, you know, and then Rob comes in and
it's like much calmer. But it's like Rob and I
mean Gus and I will just we will brawl.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
I love it. I love one of those. Yeah, it's funny.
It's funny how certain children you can you really do
feel like, oh you see yourself in them, but somehow
there's not the rub, right, and then you like, like
Ace in you for example, Right, it's like it's more
just like I understand you at such a deep level.
(41:45):
Let me help you with this because you know, right,
like I have tools for this problem to solve. And
then other kids, you know, I have I have one
that I just I mean, I'm obsessed with all of them.
I love them. Yeah, but we really go at it,
you know, and it's like it brings out this part
of myself that I'm like, where who is this? Like
(42:07):
she doesn't show up in any other paradigm, right, like
this is and that's a younger part of myself that
feels out of control or what have you, and it
becomes this kind of like power struggle, and you know,
it's it's like, like I said, there's no point at
which you've achieved enlightenment. It's like, this is the period
(42:28):
of your life, of our lives where a huge part
of our development comes through our navigating being parents and
are navigating being in relationship towards children and trying to
raise good citizens of the world. That is a big
responsibility and it brings up all sorts of stuff for us.
So I think even that even if you have totally peaceful,
(42:49):
healthy relationship with your kids at home, like whoever's listening,
this period in life when you have young kids in
the house, that's that's part of the healing journey. That's
part of the transformation, and that's part of the evolution.
And then you know, your kids move out and you're
in a different stage of evolution and you're working through
a different set of challenges, right, but it never ends.
(43:10):
It is ongoing. And so the key is to have
the tools to be able to meet each of these
moments and you know, to build our capacity is really
what it is, and you said earlier, which is really important.
Like Jackie and I started this in twenty eighteen. We
probably started working together in twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen.
(43:30):
Like it has been an absolute shit show on a
collective level since we met, right, And like there have
been many times where we have felt like I'm exhausted
and feeling kind of defeated by the darkness, and like
I would I like, I'm tired, I just want to
go to sleep. There have been times, right, because it's
(43:53):
not just that we're in the world with you doing
all of this, going through all of this collective kind
of growth that we're going through as a species, but
we're also in session all day working with individuals who
are also going through their own individual traumas coupled with
these collective traumas. So there's times where we both are like,
(44:17):
I think I need a break, Yeah really know doubt yeah,
yeah a little bit. But for the most part, we
don't get burnt out. You know. The only time we
get burnout is when we aren't managing our time properly.
I get way more burnout on parenting because it requires
so much of me to work on my own development
than I do working with clients, because I feel so
(44:38):
inspired by the work of transformation. I love to be
the person that's outside the quicksand trying to pull somebody
out of the quicksand right because and I love to
be able to see ahead, to know this person is
in a really dark moment right now, but I already
can see them on the other side of it. And
(44:59):
so because I get to hold that for them, that
feels like a beautiful thing. So even in the midst
of all the darkness, and then when you start to
like one of the kind of balms. For me over
this last few years has been like doing a deeper
dive into history, not to become kind of like steeped
in the past, but to recognize and remember that, like, oh,
(45:23):
human beings have been going through all sorts of really
difficult things for a really long time. This is not
isolated to the last you know, decade. It's just that
we're in it right now. And so like well, soul
and the work that we both do as individuals and
our practices is it's really just about preparedness, it's about resilience,
(45:48):
it's about building our capacity for navigating all of it.
And because we're all capable of navigating it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I mean, I'm so thankful for it because it's changed
my life. And something I you know, Rob and I,
my husband, Rob and I we definitely argue and we
you know, but we're both committed to constantly working on
ourselves as people, not necessarily even together all the time,
but separately like doing the work and coming together and
then and I think that that's what I've like started
(46:25):
to look for in friendships and in all my relationships
is like, you know, and it's not to say like, oh,
you're not going to like dig deep, then I don't
want to be friends with you, not at all.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
And something Casey taught me was like.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
No, your energies just don't your energies don't connect. Instead
of being like, oh I don't like that person or
oh I don't you know, it's just like the energy
doesn't matgine alignment, it's out of alignment. And I've I've
really I'm so grateful that I have this partner in
my life where our energies align that way, you know,
you're evolving together, Yeah, which is such a gift.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I think.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
I think it's really important that we find out where
we're aligned first, and then we focus on where we're
aligned and then continue to grow from there. I think
those sorts of friendships and relationships can stand the test
of time, and to me, time is evolution. Like the
(47:19):
biggest insult you could give me would be to say,
you know, you haven't changed a bit, because I think, wow,
that's scary. Unless you're talking about my skin.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
You know, my beauty or whatever. Then then I don't
want to hear that because I'm here to grow. I'm here,
I mean, I know, I think you know. It's important that.
Speaker 5 (47:41):
We find meaning in all experiences and all relationships, and
we get to decide what that meaning is.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
We get to tell the story.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
And we don't want to tell stories that are delusional, right,
or full of illusion. We want to tell stories that
are full of love. And so we want to tell
stories that are full of kindness and grace.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
And so we can.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Find those threads in our relationships, and we can find
those that frequency of energy, right, the kindness, the grace
in an experience, then we can start to make the meaning.
From there, our world begins to shift, just simply. That's
(48:26):
the magic of it, and so I prefer and I
think especially in the world that we're existing and now
everything's growing, everything's changing, and for change to happen, there
has to be an eruption, there has to be an excavation,
and there has to be a realization, it has to
be revealed of where we haven't been conscious and in
(48:50):
that moment, there's our opportunity now to decide how we're
going to handle it. Where from which place am I
going to show up? And if we choose those frequencies
of grace and kindness and compassion, then that's going to
write the story. But if we choose to see, you know,
the negativity and the fear and you know, go into
(49:14):
victim consciousness, then that's going to write the story. And
we're the co creator of our reality no matter where
we are, and you know.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
We talk about agency over it.
Speaker 5 (49:25):
Exactly, and that's I think what's so great about the
practice that we share in our wealthol community is that
we're all working on that making meaning in frequencies of
love and finding the magic within us, which is that
that tool in itself to create meaning and frequencies of love,
(49:46):
and then we find and create the miracle from there.
And so even though like I work thirteen fourteen hour days,
sometimes in the thick of it, I get to witness
so much magic, and I get to witness people, you know,
finding the light and the darkness within themselves because it
all comes back to you. It's all within you. It's
(50:08):
just a matter of finding how to how to locate
it within yourself. And so maybe we're like a navigational
system casey where like the GPS or the soul or something.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
And Grace great great, and Zoe you you're onto something too,
which is you know, you're like you've just identified that,
like you want to be in relationships with other people
that are also working on themselves.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
And so.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Because your intention is to have relationships where there's alignment
and shared values and all of that, and you've you've
brought a lot of friends to WEILSOL over the years.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
So like you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
You're you're and you're you're having a You're going to
have a private group, I think too soon. So like, yeah,
you're you're doing exactly what I think is necessary as
we start to like really wake up to who we
truly are, which is invite people along. Right, it doesn't
just mean sometimes it means goodbye to certain friends and
(51:11):
people in our lives. That where there is into alignment,
but it's also like, hey, like I'm doing this really vulnerable,
interesting thing that's like helped me, Come join me. See
if it helps you too. And when we do that,
we actually start to cultivate a shared language. And I
think that's a huge part of what happens at Walsall
(51:31):
as people bring their friends, and then they bring their family,
and then they bring their partner, and all of a sudden,
they have a whole new language inside their family, and
they have tools that they're all practicing, and the evolutionary
process is so much smoother when you have other people
along for the ride with you, as opposed to you
being the only person in your system.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
Yeah, it's do it.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
It feels so it feels so safe, you know, it
feels safe, it feels cozy, it feels like.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
And it's it's for the better of all.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It's not just you know, it's not just like hey,
I'm doing this and I you know, and I want
you to do that.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It's it's.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
When I bring my friends, I'm like, this will change
your life, Like this is you know, like this is
this will this will give you a toolbox, which is
all you really need, and then you do it.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
It's up to you. It's your practice, you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
It's your practice. It's important, yeah, all self healers.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, and it's what's.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Comfortable for you, and you take what you want. And
I love that like it. Obviously I talk a lot
at Weilsel, but you don't have to. It's not like
you need to sit in a circle and share. It's
like it's it's about it's your experience, it's you know.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
I love you both so much and I feel so
grateful for the gift that I found in you guys.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
So I'm so thank god.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
We met that day and I scared.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
I met this new species that I had never met before.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
You're You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (52:57):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you I feel. I truly I feel really grateful
and you you are one of a kind. There is
no question about that. This is true, one of a
kind of news. That's why I had never met and
it was like you, Oh my gosh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Thank you guys for doing this.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I really I'm so grateful and I want, you know,
to share this amazing not it's not. It's just like,
I don't know it's practice. I don't I don't even
know what the word is. I guess practice. I wanted
to share this practice because it's so.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Doable.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
And when I did an episode about the fires right
after or while it was still going on, I shared
a prayer that Jackie had given me during that time,
and I just kept saying it over and over and
I it helped so much.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
And yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
I'm so grateful, and I hope you guys have a
great day. I know you have back to back clients.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
Thank you for being such a supportive friend. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Please it's easy and member of.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
The community that we all share. I think that's just.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
Been very easy today when it works. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
We love you.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
I love you, guys.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Thank you so much for joining us for another episode
of One in the Winkler. Please tell a friend, please follow,
Please subscribe. I'm desperate, I'm begging, and I can't wait
to see you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Thanks
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. Hi,
welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler. Today,
I have two incredible women joining me as guests, and
I know them personally and I work with one of
them as my healer. I've talked about her before on
this podcast. Her name is Jackie Leonardini. She's a clairvoyant,
(00:24):
an energy healer, and a certified soul coach. Casey Crown,
her partner, is a trans personal psychotherapist, consultant, wellness educator,
and activist. Her work challenges old mental health paradigms and
suggests that true wellbeing lies in our ability to balance
scientific and spiritual perspectives. They have created something called the
Well Soul Workshop. I've gone twice and it's changed my life.
(00:46):
Let's let them in, Okay, So I just want to
thank you guys for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I have talked about Jackie many times on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I work with her once a.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Week and Kate See is her partner in Welsaull Workshop.
She's also, as I said earlier, an incredible, incredible therapist
and human being and friend, and I begged her to
be my therapist, but that would be beyond inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So instead every time I see her, I just corner her.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But I wanted you guys first of all. I want
to talk about Welsoul Workshop and what it did for
me as a human being, and what it has done
for so many of my friends, and how you guys
came up with the idea before we jump into everything else.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Katie, why didn't you jump in and tell the origin
story of our partnership.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so thank you for having us, Zoe. Thank you
for so fun to be here with you. I got
to be with you this weekend. I'm going to get
to be with you next weekend. So I feel like
I'm getting a lot of Zoe right now. Exciting and Yeah.
So we started well Soul. This is our eighth year
(02:09):
facilitating workshops, which is crazy. And we came together probably
ten years ago doing some work. I actually had Jackie
du A reading for me. She was referred by a friend,
and we both knew kind of pretty quickly that we
(02:30):
would be working together at some point. While I am
a therapist and my kind of clinical work is in
the treatment of trauma, especially, my background is actually also
an energy medicine and the study of consciousness, and so
there was a lot of overlap in our kind of approach,
(02:53):
and so we came together, you know, just working in
a personal way for quite a while, and then I
began to refer clients who I had been working with
in my practice to Jackie to do a little bit,
do kind of a deeper dive into the energetic component.
(03:17):
And we began to find that there was this kind
of magic happening with the clients that we were working
with together, you know, even though we would see them separately,
there was this kind of integration that was occurring in
combining our two modalities that we found really impactful and thought, Okay,
(03:39):
I think we have something here. Let's try workshops, see
how it goes. See if we can't kind of put
a curriculum together that Mary's integrative Psychology, interpersonal neurobiology and
energy medicine, and see what emerges from that experience. And
you know, of course, as is the case often when
(04:01):
you start any programming, it was all kind of like
friends and family at those first two workshops, and it
gave us a chance to refine our curriculum and really
kind of work with people and see what worked and
what didn't and now here we are eight years later.
(04:21):
We have a pretty kind of robust curriculum that is
our flagship workshop. We've gone on to develop a second
curriculum as well that's focused very specifically on the topic
of judgment and coming into balance around our relationship to judgment.
(04:42):
But yeah, we love it. I mean, I think Jackie
and I both have really full private practices, and you know,
we love working one on one with clients. But there's
something really really special and magical about getting a group
of people together with a shared intention and to grow
and to heal and to be vulnerable. And there's just
(05:09):
a magic that happens in the room at Walsall. And
you know, Friday night, when people arrived, they're terrified, usually
especially if they've never been so, but by Sunday, everybody's like,
you know, there's a real kind of camaraderie and energy
that's moved through the group.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And so yeah, it's a really special experience.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I went in twenty nineteen and then again last year,
and it was the difference between the two times was
so interesting because it felt like the first time I
was so nervous. I'd never meditated before, I'd never gotten
into my own body before, and I've talked about that,
(05:52):
I've struggled with anxiety my entire life. And I was
so like, I just kept saying, I'm never going to
be able to do this.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I'm never going to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And then by Sunday, I felt like I didn't even
want to go home, you know, like I mean, I
wanted to go home, but I was so I felt
so safe and so good and emotional in all the things.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And it was hard.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
But and the second time, I felt much more ready
to sort of begin the journey, and I felt much
I just felt like, oh, I can do this, and
this is what it looks like.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Well, you know, it's fun having you at Walthol the
first time, but you know, the energy that you bring
in the room is always like bubbly and full of humor.
And I think, you know, when we're facing our shadow work,
which is what we ask people to do when they
come to Walsol, which sounds like it's really daunting, actually
(06:52):
we have we have a lot of fun doing it,
like looking at ourselves from this neutral place of saying
I want to be aware of who I am entirely
the wholeness of me so that I can feel comfortable
and trust that I'm on this journey to evolve.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So there is no judgment, there's just it is what
it is.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Where our anxieties, our fears are, you know, our trauma
that we've experienced in our life all can be transformed
or transmuted into this tremendous amount of growth, clarity and
actually allow us to find that center within ourselves again
(07:37):
to where being embodied, we're not cringing all the time
or white neffling it through life because we're like, oh, okay,
you know, things are supposed to be bumpy, and when
I hit the bump, I have a tool. I know
what to do, and I think you know what I
love about sharing well Soul weekends with people is that
(07:59):
Casey and I get an opera unity to practice along
with you, so you know, we're there to share tools
that help us navigate.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
The stress of life just in general, and or.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Any type of hardship or pain that we experience doesn't
have to destroy us. It can actually expand us if
we feel equipped within ourselves too through you know. And
the neat thing about when Casey and I came together
is We're both very spiritual within a divine practice. You know,
(08:36):
spirit means energy, divinity is love, and it is that's
where the healings found. And so I think we make
a real point of that at Walsall, and that creates
a safe environment for people to come and open up,
you know, and use humor. The humor is key because
(08:57):
you know, you hear us say.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
You know, if you can what is it? I'd rather
be amused than abused, right, So if I can find
that amusement even in.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
The darkest hour, it will lead me through it. And
I think that's really key.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, So Casey and I met actually the first day
of baby group with our oldest children.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh my god, are.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You sure you want to tell this story?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Casey told the story. I really I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
During the fires, we evacuated to o Hi and Casey
lives in Ohi, and so I went. We saw her
and she was telling the story about the first time
we met. That was like, that was so it was
just like it was so me, just like on any.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Day, but she was so she was like, what is
this being?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Who is this?
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I'm gonna tell it?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I told her I'd never met her kind before.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I was walking back to the room with Deborah, our friend, Deborah,
we have a mutual friend, and I was like, it's
so interesting, like it made an impact on her because
that was just like that in the life.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Of Zoe Winkler. Oh my god. I mean it was
so funny, Like, you know, I show up to baby
group and I'm walking down the street with my baby
and Zoe gets out of her car. I see her, like,
I don't know her. She sees that I have a baby,
(10:24):
so she must think we're going to the same baby group.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
We've never met, I've never seen her life.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Never met, and she just gets out of the car
and she's like looks at me and may have even
grabbed me like physically and was like the baby right
all the way from Burley Hills to Santa Monica. He
didn't take a breath, and like she she just like
goes on in this kind of like hilarious, sort of
(10:53):
hysterical like explanation of her drive.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
And also who was in the car with me? Who
was baby shatters in the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm like, dude, he was like.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was like, what is going on with this? Lady.
So anyway, we go to baby group. Needless to say,
it was my first and last baby group. I never
came back, and it was not because of you, Zoe,
but I then we met years later because our kids
went to school together and and it's you know, she's amazing.
(11:27):
I love you.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You're so funny. And and by the way, like I
just want to say, you know, kind of you know,
just in reference to what you were saying about your
two different weal soul experiences, like when you first came
to Wealsaul, like I think one of the things that
(11:49):
happens when we haven't done and you had been in
therapy before, Like it wasn't like your first rodeo in
terms of like doing inner work, but it was. It's
a different kind of inner work that we do out. Also,
it's not traditional psychotherapy. There's not you know, we don't
follow a traditional method. And I think like the most
(12:10):
important thing that we like to kind of like tell
people and to help break the ice is like like
who you are is okay, and like in all of
its messiness and in all of its chaos and all
of right, like the biggest, the scariest hurdle that I
think all of us have to overcome when we start
to do inner work is we have to kind of
break agreements with the lie that like something is wrong
(12:32):
with us, like that we're fundamentally problematic in some way.
And most of us, until we've done inner work, have
a lot of shame, right, and we have a lot
of stories that we're constantly kind of circulating. And I
think oftentimes when people come to wel So for the
first time, that first workshop is just like about, oh,
(12:53):
like I have permission to accept myself for who I am,
Like I can work on all of this shit for
you know ever, and I will, but like I can't
even begin to work on it until I can kind
of break through this initial like just judgment, judgment and
move into this space of self love where I go like, Okay,
(13:15):
here I am in all of my messiness and like
all of my history.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And also how many times judgment comes in without even
knowing that it's judgment, like with sometimes you know you,
and that is what has helped me so much, and
with well souls also, like I was, I've been in
therapy since I was seven years old, so I mean
I'm forty four.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's a long time.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I was, and it was and it was amazing and
it was a privilege and I'm so lucky and I'm
so grateful to my parents that they were like, oh,
something's going on, but I wouldn't come out from the
table after the earthquake. They were like, huh, she should
talk to someone. But I, you know it, it didn't
really give me the toolbox I needed because it wasn't
(14:00):
stuff that we could talk about it and talk about
it and talk about it. But it wasn't until I
found you two. And you you know, I means as friends,
but also as you know, as fill energy workers, facilitators, whatever, doctors.
I mean that I could actually have a toolbox that
(14:22):
I could do. And I have a notes app in
my phone and I write down the thing so that
when I'm feeling like just sort of like I'm about
to get out of my body kind of and I'm
going to just let all my energy go, I try
to just call it back.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And there are these things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And it's funny because I was actually able to tell
my dad because one of the things that you guys
teach us is that if you're just feeling completely like fragmented.
Just say your name three times, and it doesn't have
to be out loud. It could be quiet, it could
be in your head, but kind of calling your energy back.
And I know that I have a lot of listeners
that are not in LA and that are not that
(14:58):
this might I said, you know, this might sound confusing
or silly, but it's.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So just try it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And so when my dad he has anxiety too, and
so I said to him, like, just say your name
three times. Say your name three times, And he said
that now he does that sometimes, like when he gets
like really you know. So I thought that that was
such an amazing thing and that was just one of
the thousands of tools that you guys have kind of
given me and given so many people that get the
opportunity to do this.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
I really love that because that is the that tool
of saying your name is.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
It's it's kind of magical, but it's obvious.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
At the same time, think about when somebody calls, you know,
for people that are listening and maybe thinking we're a little.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Cuckoo, and I do.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
If you're in public, you know, to say it to
yourself because you make it a few looks, but you know, I.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Don't care anymore.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
I'm so like you know, I've been doing this, saying
my name three times for fifteen years now to call
my energy back. And even though I practice this every
single day when I feel fragmented, you're basically saying, come
back to me. You're getting your own attention, right, And
so you think about when somebody else says your name,
your attention goes there, where your intention goes you know,
(16:17):
as we all know, your energy flows that direction. So
when you're calling your yourself back, your energy is going
to come back to you your It's a moment in
which you can attune and center and remember, okay, I'm
right here right now. It's the first step toward being present,
and you know in present there's a wholeness that happens. Again,
(16:40):
we want our energy to be with us so that
we can direct it and be intentional with what we're
going to focus on. And and you know you mentioned anxiety.
Anxiety is this It really does take our energy. And
you could picture your energy kind of pulling apart because
it's going way out in the future, usually right in
(17:03):
the future into the what ifs, or in the past
into the well what was wrong? And Why did that happen?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Why did that happen to me? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
And you can just all your energy now is in
all these places trying to find this answer and it's
not right there with you. And the process of you know,
discernment is to say, Okay, what's true right here.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Right now? What is it that you know? Where am I?
Am I in fear or am I in you know?
Am I in the what ifs?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Because if I'm in the what ifs, then I need
to come back and into the what is right here,
right now true in order to find my center and
in that moment then clarity can happen.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So that tool of.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Saying your name three times is the is the first
step to finding that your your The word I want
to use, I guess is to calibrate your compass, your
innercom this back to you.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
There's been times when I'm like crashing out on social
media and I'll be like, yeah, because I have a
private account that is just for my family and friends,
and it's not you know, it's like just me losing
my mind all the time, and Casey will be like
reach out and just be like, I see that you're
going through this moment.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Or I'll send you a meme that's just like girl,
check yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You reel it in because it's like, you know, it's
like you don't just give away your energy. You know,
you don't just lose your energy or or sort of
like I guess misplace it when it's just when you're
like it can also be just in so many different
ways that aren't even tangible.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, And I will also say, like we offer a
lot of tools like that that are that are subtle,
kind of more energetic tools. But the other thing about anxiety,
and I think you know, Zoe you can relate to
this is people with anxiety oftentimes have really unruly minds.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's like your unruly mind coupled with some insecurity or vulnerability, right.
And so one of the things that you've described in
the past, if I can share it here, is yeah,
of course, is you know that like you'll be in
an environment and experience something, right, a look, a tone
of voice, you know, whatever it might be from someone
(19:31):
in that space, and immediately it will kind of like
grab you at your most vulnerable and insecure space inside
your body. And once that kind of embodied reaction is triggered,
you then go into a pretty complex story around it, right,
and you are not alone in doing that. That is
(19:52):
part of like the whole kind of system of anxiety
that we all experience. So, but then what happens is
the story or that we tell ourselves obviously is the
one that causes the most suffering. And so a big
part of what you know we're working with people around you, know,
is it's not just about calling all of your fragmented
(20:13):
energy back and getting yourself into present time, which is
incredibly important. You really can't heal from from outside of
the present moment. But it's also about beginning to evaluate
and look at where have you created a story or
gone into agreement with a story that's creating suffering for you.
And one of the biggest things that I think we
(20:34):
try to teach people at welshol is how to break agreements.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
It's like we are in this kind of perpetual state
of creating these unconscious contracts with stories, right that are
pretty much manufactured out of thin air. Right, there may
be some truth to them, and sometimes there is It's
true that person gave me a weird look, or it's
true that that person might be having a bad day
and used a tone of voye with me that felt
(21:01):
like aggressive or whatever it is. But the kind of
story that gets, you know, created out of that experience
is the one that we're trying to interrupt and to
not only in like, it's not just about breaking agreements
with the story that's not serving us, but it's also
about what are my choices right, What is the most
(21:23):
generous interpretation of this moment that I can lean into, right?
And and we want to start to practice that, We
have to practice moving into a more generous interpretation so
that we can create that not only that inner safety,
but harmony in our relationships and you know, not only
with ourselves but with others. So the story is a
(21:46):
big part of the anxiety, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Mary, And it's so and sometimes the story feels so
real that it's hard to know the difference between you know,
like you're like wait. Sometimes I even will be like wait,
did that really happen? It's not just you know, the
story that I'm telling myself right now in the world
feels so heavy with the fires and you know, in
La but just everywhere the world.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Just feels to me.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Like there's just so much chaos going on how do
you stay centered? How do you stay how do you
protect yourself from that? Because I haven't figured that out yet.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Oh, we don't stay centered?
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Is that something you were misled to believe?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I think I was. I was under the illusion.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Okay, So you projected a story onto us that we
are centered. Oh that's right, Okay, Great, the lie, the
big lie is working, Jackie.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
We've fooled everyone. I mean, I'll say this.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I you know, grief is really heavy right now in
the atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
It's and you know, I tune into it every day.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
A lot of our friends, a lot of our community
has been affected in Los Angeles, and and even if
it wasn't, how can you not feel the magnitude of
of what's occurred. And so it's been hard to sit
in it and go, whoa wait a minute, you know.
And you know, last night I was sitting and thinking
(23:17):
about this is what I do. I was sitting and
thinking about when all of the people and I watched
the Fiery concert that was so you know, wonderful, and
and I thought about all the wild animals and I
just started to cry in it. And and that's where
the tool comes in. It's like, Okay, I'm going to
feel it. We have to feel.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
We can't bypass the moment of pain. The moment of
pain is a worthy moment to give attention to and
just say, in this pain, where is the light? Where
can I find the wisdom from this this grief that
I'm feeling so so deeply.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And you know I went through.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I live in Napa and in twenty seventeen my whole
neighborhood burned and our house was thankfully.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Did not.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Our property burned, but our home was fine, and so
you know, I had a sense of the devastating feeling.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
But I don't even need to have that sense.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
We all think, you know, stop for a second, and
when we think about, how does this apply to me?
If that was me, that's empathy, which is really really important.
But then we want to we can go into sympathy
and say I'm so sorry, but we want to stop
ourselves before we judge it as being a terrible thing.
We want to stop ourselves and say, where's the light here?
(24:45):
And how can I help bring the light. And that's
what helps me always come back to my center. When
I asked that question, just that question alone, Like, how
can we find light here? This is terrible, but I
know there's a way through, And I think that's for me,
what is my coping mechanism? When I fall out of
(25:07):
my center and need to get back, It's like that's
the life raft. And then once you're on the life raft,
you can begin to see the way is it?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Also like sometimes I think we've talked about this, like
nothing is done to you, it's not happening to you.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, there's something important.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Not having to do with this, not having to do
with this disaster, but just in general, like as a
human being, not this is very different.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Well yeah, I mean not really. Crisis is crisis, disasters, disaster,
people experience it every day all over the world. So
we don't get to conveniently choose like a mindset around
something only when it feels like comfortable and safe to
have that mindset. I think where we try to help
(25:57):
people move is, you know, don't we don't say everything
happens for a reason, because it doesn't. We live in
a chaotic universe. That's just how energy works. We try
to keep people out of victim consciousness, right, there are
(26:17):
real victims in the human experience that goth that are
people that are victimized and go through terrible injustices and
terrible things. But the kind of like ongoing relationship to
the experience is what we're looking at, right, Because when
you experience a trauma like the fires, like when you're
(26:37):
in an acute state of distress and in an acute
state of trauma and in an acute state of grief,
you're going to feel all the feelings, and you have
permission to feel all the feelings. You have permission to
be angry and feel the injustice and be in despair
and feel and ask why why me?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Why right? Those are the kinds of things that happen
to us when we're in an acute state of trauma.
And so part of our job when we're working with
people that are in acute crisis is to first and
foremost just be with them in that and let them
know they're not alone, right, and that it's okay to
have all the feelings that they're feeling. Now. Our job
is also to help people move through into you know,
(27:20):
the healing process, right. So it's like when you're in
the acute stage, you're not yet healing. You're mostly just
experiencing the suffering, and then when there's some readiness established
to start to move the energy toward healing, we are
going to then work with how do we right rise
from the ashes of this moment? How do we look
(27:42):
at this experience that's incredibly difficult and hold the duality
of the experience, hold the complexity of this experience. It
can both be devastating and horrific and terrible and hard,
and it can also be a miracle and an opportunity.
And you know, it can reflect back to us how
strong we are, and how creative we are, and how
(28:02):
capable we are. So we are you know, we really
want to hold the container for all of the things.
Where we as facilitators and as practitioners see that things
start to become problematic is when people stay attached to
the victim story.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
When you stay attached to the victim store, you're keeping
your energy and attention stuck in the past, so you're
reliving that trauma over and over again and unwilling At
some level, there's a rigidity that's established that makes it
difficult to move into the part where we want to
learn from the experience. Right, And so what you just
said Zoe is things don't happen to you, they happen
(28:42):
for you. Yes, it's really hard to say that to
someone that's in acute state of trauma. They might be
like a few, that's just you know, not what I
need to hear right now, right. But when we reflect
back on an experience, oftentimes we're able to see how
much we've grown from it, and we say, oh, like,
there were a lot of opportunities for me in that
(29:02):
really devastating experience to become this version of myself that's
so much more capable and wise and strong. And so
I see every trauma as an opportunity for growth. But
it doesn't mean that we bypass the acute distress that
people are experiencing in the moment. I don't know if
that helps frame kind of.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, it does.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I want to add to that.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
So the saying you know everything happens you see that
saying everywhere you know everything happens for you. Right, doesn't
happen to you, But sometimes things do happen to you.
Like Casey said, someone doesn't intend to harm you. There's
intentionality out there in this world to create and to destroy, right,
(29:49):
to create a destructive situation, but it as beings that
we have the opportunity always to transmute that into happening
for us. And so I think, you know the Casey's point,
that's a process. So nothing really can happen to us
(30:11):
as long as we know and can find right that
place within us the support network as well, in order
to emerge from any situation.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And be transformed by it.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
And that's a choice, and sometimes it's hard to make
that choice on your own when you're when something devastating
occurs in our life, and that's where community comes in.
That's where leaning on one another to say, you know,
I'm you know, I'm devastated right now.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
I need a hand.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
And I think that's that's what we're witnessing in Los
Angeles right now.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
So we can choose to put our focus on, you know,
all of the trauma and tragedy that's happened, and we
need to look at it, and then we have to
choose to look at all of the help, look at
the sense of community, and when we hold on to
one another and come together in generosity and love, it
(31:11):
will transform anything. And I think as long as we
can remember that then nothing does.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Nothing can happen to you. Everything can happen for you.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
But it takes that fundamental shift in understanding that what
is the thing that's going to transmute it, and that
is to be generous with love and to be supportive
of one another and meet people where they are.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
And it's really hopeful to me to see.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
That happening right now in La and in places all
over the world.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
That's where I'm going to choose to focus.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
I'm going to choose to give that meaning and attention
because the more we attend to that, the more that
will grow.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You guys have both been doing this practice for so long.
Do you sometimes forget and like just completely lose your
minds or.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Do you just.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I mean, that's why I was saying, do we really
give you the illusion that we found our center?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah. I mean, like what we're really good at is
showing people the way to the center. Holding the center
is a whole different story. And so the more you
practice the tools right, the more you interrupt the story,
the more you run your energy, call your energy back,
(32:31):
the more you set intensions and activate your creativity to
like really focus on your capacity to choose, right, Like,
the more integrated you become over time. So can I
hold my center now? Probably more than I could in
(32:54):
the past, absolutely, particularly around it. And there are a
lot of things that might have kind of thrown me
out of center in the past that are just non
issues now they just like wouldn't ever take me out
of neutral. But we are evolutionary beings constantly growing, so
there is no point at which you achieve some like
(33:18):
you know, enlightenment. Enlightenment is yeah, and this kind of embodiment.
We're here to learn and grow. We're human beings. So
like the you know, no matter how much work we do,
there's always another opportunity for us to go deeper, you know,
to widen our lens and zoom out even more, to
practice a new set of tools. Tools also atrophy, Like
(33:39):
you can use the same tools for a while and
then realize, like gosh, like this isn't working for me
right now. I need to like move the energy, shift
the energy, come up with a creative new tool to
like kind of get myself into present time or whatever
it may be. So we do use the tools, we
practice them. It helps us stick, you know, bring ourselves
(34:02):
back to center when we're throwing off, we can't. You
guys should have a cheat sheet making a work book.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, that's I'm sorry, I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
That's what you guys should do. And because because I
know you guys are.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You do workshops in Ohai, Napa and you just started
in that Wait where is it?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
The new one in New York in Hudson Valley in
New York.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
And then but if you can't get to those places.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, how do I mean? We're so a couple of
things we're trying to do shorter. First of all, we're
doing we do a lot of private workshops too, So
if you have a group or you know, we've been
doing quite a few of those.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
My lifers and I are going to do one.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
We're yeah to get the date, yea.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So those can be one day. We're coming to La
to do one for some people that were affected by
the fires in March. They can be multi day or whatever.
So people can reach out to us if for for
those opportunities. But we're working on a workbook. But also
you know, we work in private practice. There's all sorts
(35:07):
of ways to kind of connect with us, but we
really need to kind of get our workbook out there
and expand our you know reach. So yeah, that is
part of the intention going forward. We've just been so
kind of inundated with work for the last eight years
that we've been doing the workshop, so we keep trying
(35:28):
to expand beyond a certain point, but then we just
both get pulled into work.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And you guys are both so like Jackie the other day,
we had to re reschedule our session and she was like,
my six am just canceled, And I was like, have
you lost your mind? I will never meet with you
at six am for some time. Sleepings, I get like,
but it's just like, you guys are both just I mean,
and I'm sure it's because as the world gets, as
(35:53):
life gets crazier and busier, you know, more people are
but it's.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
It's we're definite only service providers.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I mean, yeah, we love it. I have to say,
you know, there's when I don't have like a full day,
I don't know what to do with myself.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
I mean, so I ask for balance every day.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
I set my intention that my day has some balance
and that you know, I realized that I'm never on
this journey by myself. I thank God that you know,
I have people like you, Zoe and you know Casey
in my life that I love and it brings me
great joy. And but you know what we were talking
about earlier, and I think what's really important and interesting
(36:37):
if somebody wants to come to a well soul, what
we're really helping you build is resilience. And so, you know,
I may lose my shit, but I'm not going to
lose it for a day.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I'm maybe going to lose it, depends on what it is, but.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Most likely because I was very reactive. I'm Italian and
Sicilian to boot, and my mom and I grew up
in a long lineage of very reactive people, so you know,
everything was, you know, everything was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Everything in common.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
Yeah, It's like something would spill on the floor and
I'd hear my.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Mom go, oh my god, and then yeah, you know, customers,
I'm like, what what happened?
Speaker 4 (37:15):
She's like, oh, I dropped the milk. I'm like, okay. So,
you know, I don't want to live my life like that.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
I don't want to live my life where I'm always
reacting to.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I want to be in stillness and responding and so.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
The act of stillness for me, take a deep breath
and then go, Okay, what is this right now in
front of me? And I'm going to stay still until
I can find that center, and then I'll respond.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
And if it takes a minute, or it takes a
day or two, it does.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
And I think that that that alone has allowed life
to get so much more joyful for me because I'm
not always reacting.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
And and.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You know, and I'm sure, I'm sure it gets a
little easier not to react when your kids are grown
up and out of the house. Yeah, I'm still working
on that.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Have three children basically the same age. Though you know,
it's oh God in response, Yeah, well kids are supposed
to poke you.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
There's i mean, the neat thing about being a parent.
And I'm kind of on the other side my kids
are grown. But I always thought, oh wow, I remember
having this experience in eighth grade.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
That you are now having, you know, my one of
my kids.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
And then I thought, and now I'm as torn up
about it now for you as I was for me.
And that's that process of lighting up so we can
face something again. Our children are there doing their jobs
when they're triggering us. Because it's our opportunity to face
something again and make a new choice. And that's I
(39:00):
think that's really key for those parents who are in
the thick of it. When I look back now, you know,
I had so many opportunities to make a new choice
and to handle things with grace and to show.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
That, to model that for my kids.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
And even if they don't listen at first, and even
if they don't you think they're not listening at all,
I will tell you if you consistently stay in what
you note and what you value and hold at it.
When your kids are the ages of mine, they'll say
to me. My kids say to me all the time,
you know, Mom, I'm really glad that you you know
that you didn't let us have the phone at the
(39:34):
dinner table, or I'm really glad, I'm like really used
to like have a tantrum every night with the dinner
time at our house. I would dread because it was
like always tears, or you know, and or my son
will say, you know, I go out to dinner with
people and they have terrible man I'm so glad you
taught me manners. I used to say to my husband,
can we like take the night off from manners because
(39:55):
I just like a peaceful dinner. You know, it's like
put your napkin on your lap.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
But when he I'd be like no. And so you've
got to hang in there with what you value. And
it doesn't matter if their head spins and they grow,
you know, more arms and snakes are coming out of
their head. You just got to stay in And it
doesn't mean you're a bad parent, you know, because your
kids are freaking out all the time, and it's like
(40:19):
you know, energy.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Flying, it actually means you're doing your job. And and
so I think I laugh when because you know, I'm
not in that stage. I get to go to Casey's
house with their kids and they are many. They are wilful,
and I love it. And if your children are wilful,
that's awesome because I try to.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Remind myself of that, Yeah, I want them to be
you know, you want them to Yeah, you want them
to be strong.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I say that to my mom all the time, And
I think that sometimes Gus and I I think that
there's parts of all three of my kids that i'm
that are so similar to me, Like Ace and I
share like really strong bond. Jules and I share really
strong bond. Gus nice share really strong bond. There's parts
of Ace that I remember feeling the exact same way
(41:07):
he is. And then there I look at Gus and
he is me in so many ways. And for us
that's like this, you know, we just are like all right,
let's go, you know, and then Rob comes in and
it's like much calmer. But it's like Rob and I
mean Gus and I will just we will brawl.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
I love it. I love one of those. Yeah, it's funny.
It's funny how certain children you can you really do
feel like, oh you see yourself in them, but somehow
there's not the rub, right, and then you like, like
Ace in you for example, Right, it's like it's more
just like I understand you at such a deep level.
(41:45):
Let me help you with this because you know, right,
like I have tools for this problem to solve. And
then other kids, you know, I have I have one
that I just I mean, I'm obsessed with all of them.
I love them. Yeah, but we really go at it,
you know, and it's like it brings out this part
of myself that I'm like, where who is this? Like
(42:07):
she doesn't show up in any other paradigm, right, like
this is and that's a younger part of myself that
feels out of control or what have you, and it
becomes this kind of like power struggle, and you know,
it's it's like, like I said, there's no point at
which you've achieved enlightenment. It's like, this is the period
(42:28):
of your life, of our lives where a huge part
of our development comes through our navigating being parents and
are navigating being in relationship towards children and trying to
raise good citizens of the world. That is a big
responsibility and it brings up all sorts of stuff for us.
So I think even that even if you have totally peaceful,
(42:49):
healthy relationship with your kids at home, like whoever's listening,
this period in life when you have young kids in
the house, that's that's part of the healing journey. That's
part of the transformation, and that's part of the evolution.
And then you know, your kids move out and you're
in a different stage of evolution and you're working through
a different set of challenges, right, but it never ends.
(43:10):
It is ongoing. And so the key is to have
the tools to be able to meet each of these
moments and you know, to build our capacity is really
what it is, and you said earlier, which is really important.
Like Jackie and I started this in twenty eighteen. We
probably started working together in twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen.
(43:30):
Like it has been an absolute shit show on a
collective level since we met, right, And like there have
been many times where we have felt like I'm exhausted
and feeling kind of defeated by the darkness, and like
I would I like, I'm tired, I just want to
go to sleep. There have been times, right, because it's
(43:53):
not just that we're in the world with you doing
all of this, going through all of this collective kind
of growth that we're going through as a species, but
we're also in session all day working with individuals who
are also going through their own individual traumas coupled with
these collective traumas. So there's times where we both are like,
(44:17):
I think I need a break, Yeah really know doubt yeah,
yeah a little bit. But for the most part, we
don't get burnt out. You know. The only time we
get burnout is when we aren't managing our time properly.
I get way more burnout on parenting because it requires
so much of me to work on my own development
than I do working with clients, because I feel so
(44:38):
inspired by the work of transformation. I love to be
the person that's outside the quicksand trying to pull somebody
out of the quicksand right because and I love to
be able to see ahead, to know this person is
in a really dark moment right now, but I already
can see them on the other side of it. And
(44:59):
so because I get to hold that for them, that
feels like a beautiful thing. So even in the midst
of all the darkness, and then when you start to
like one of the kind of balms. For me over
this last few years has been like doing a deeper
dive into history, not to become kind of like steeped
in the past, but to recognize and remember that, like, oh,
(45:23):
human beings have been going through all sorts of really
difficult things for a really long time. This is not
isolated to the last you know, decade. It's just that
we're in it right now. And so like well, soul
and the work that we both do as individuals and
our practices is it's really just about preparedness, it's about resilience,
(45:48):
it's about building our capacity for navigating all of it.
And because we're all capable of navigating it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I mean, I'm so thankful for it because it's changed
my life. And something I you know, Rob and I,
my husband, Rob and I we definitely argue and we
you know, but we're both committed to constantly working on
ourselves as people, not necessarily even together all the time,
but separately like doing the work and coming together and
then and I think that that's what I've like started
(46:25):
to look for in friendships and in all my relationships
is like, you know, and it's not to say like, oh,
you're not going to like dig deep, then I don't
want to be friends with you, not at all.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
And something Casey taught me was like.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
No, your energies just don't your energies don't connect. Instead
of being like, oh I don't like that person or
oh I don't you know, it's just like the energy
doesn't matgine alignment, it's out of alignment. And I've I've
really I'm so grateful that I have this partner in
my life where our energies align that way, you know,
you're evolving together, Yeah, which is such a gift.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I think.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
I think it's really important that we find out where
we're aligned first, and then we focus on where we're
aligned and then continue to grow from there. I think
those sorts of friendships and relationships can stand the test
of time, and to me, time is evolution. Like the
(47:19):
biggest insult you could give me would be to say,
you know, you haven't changed a bit, because I think, wow,
that's scary. Unless you're talking about my skin.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
You know, my beauty or whatever. Then then I don't
want to hear that because I'm here to grow. I'm here,
I mean, I know, I think you know. It's important that.
Speaker 5 (47:41):
We find meaning in all experiences and all relationships, and
we get to decide what that meaning is.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
We get to tell the story.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
And we don't want to tell stories that are delusional, right,
or full of illusion. We want to tell stories that
are full of love. And so we want to tell
stories that are full of kindness and grace.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
And so we can.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Find those threads in our relationships, and we can find
those that frequency of energy, right, the kindness, the grace
in an experience, then we can start to make the meaning.
From there, our world begins to shift, just simply. That's
(48:26):
the magic of it, and so I prefer and I
think especially in the world that we're existing and now
everything's growing, everything's changing, and for change to happen, there
has to be an eruption, there has to be an excavation,
and there has to be a realization, it has to
be revealed of where we haven't been conscious and in
(48:50):
that moment, there's our opportunity now to decide how we're
going to handle it. Where from which place am I
going to show up? And if we choose those frequencies
of grace and kindness and compassion, then that's going to
write the story. But if we choose to see, you know,
the negativity and the fear and you know, go into
(49:14):
victim consciousness, then that's going to write the story. And
we're the co creator of our reality no matter where
we are, and you know.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
We talk about agency over it.
Speaker 5 (49:25):
Exactly, and that's I think what's so great about the
practice that we share in our wealthol community is that
we're all working on that making meaning in frequencies of
love and finding the magic within us, which is that
that tool in itself to create meaning and frequencies of love,
(49:46):
and then we find and create the miracle from there.
And so even though like I work thirteen fourteen hour days,
sometimes in the thick of it, I get to witness
so much magic, and I get to witness people, you know,
finding the light and the darkness within themselves because it
all comes back to you. It's all within you. It's
(50:08):
just a matter of finding how to how to locate
it within yourself. And so maybe we're like a navigational
system casey where like the GPS or the soul or something.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
And Grace great great, and Zoe you you're onto something too,
which is you know, you're like you've just identified that,
like you want to be in relationships with other people
that are also working on themselves.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
And so.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Because your intention is to have relationships where there's alignment
and shared values and all of that, and you've you've
brought a lot of friends to WEILSOL over the years.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
So like you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
You're you're and you're you're having a You're going to
have a private group, I think too soon. So like, yeah,
you're you're doing exactly what I think is necessary as
we start to like really wake up to who we
truly are, which is invite people along. Right, it doesn't
just mean sometimes it means goodbye to certain friends and
(51:11):
people in our lives. That where there is into alignment,
but it's also like, hey, like I'm doing this really vulnerable,
interesting thing that's like helped me, Come join me. See
if it helps you too. And when we do that,
we actually start to cultivate a shared language. And I
think that's a huge part of what happens at Walsall
(51:31):
as people bring their friends, and then they bring their family,
and then they bring their partner, and all of a sudden,
they have a whole new language inside their family, and
they have tools that they're all practicing, and the evolutionary
process is so much smoother when you have other people
along for the ride with you, as opposed to you
being the only person in your system.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
Yeah, it's do it.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
It feels so it feels so safe, you know, it
feels safe, it feels cozy, it feels like.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
And it's it's for the better of all.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It's not just you know, it's not just like hey,
I'm doing this and I you know, and I want
you to do that.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It's it's.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
When I bring my friends, I'm like, this will change
your life, Like this is you know, like this is
this will this will give you a toolbox, which is
all you really need, and then you do it.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
It's up to you. It's your practice, you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
It's your practice. It's important, yeah, all self healers.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, and it's what's.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Comfortable for you, and you take what you want. And
I love that like it. Obviously I talk a lot
at Weilsel, but you don't have to. It's not like
you need to sit in a circle and share. It's
like it's it's about it's your experience, it's you know.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
I love you both so much and I feel so
grateful for the gift that I found in you guys.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
So I'm so thank god.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
We met that day and I scared.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
I met this new species that I had never met before.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
You're You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (52:57):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you I feel. I truly I feel really grateful
and you you are one of a kind. There is
no question about that. This is true, one of a
kind of news. That's why I had never met and
it was like you, Oh my gosh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Thank you guys for doing this.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I really I'm so grateful and I want, you know,
to share this amazing not it's not. It's just like,
I don't know it's practice. I don't I don't even
know what the word is. I guess practice. I wanted
to share this practice because it's so.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Doable.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
And when I did an episode about the fires right
after or while it was still going on, I shared
a prayer that Jackie had given me during that time,
and I just kept saying it over and over and
I it helped so much.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
And yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
I'm so grateful, and I hope you guys have a
great day. I know you have back to back clients.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
Thank you for being such a supportive friend. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Please it's easy and member of.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
The community that we all share. I think that's just.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
Been very easy today when it works. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
We love you.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
I love you, guys.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Thank you so much for joining us for another episode
of One in the Winkler. Please tell a friend, please follow,
Please subscribe. I'm desperate, I'm begging, and I can't wait
to see you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Thanks
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