March 5, 2025 • 35 mins
In light of recent news, I decided to re-release our episode with Tetiana Poudel, the Ukrainian woman who returned home to help with the war effort. Over these past few months, it has felt difficult to grasp onto actions that feel meaningful when it seems like everything is out of our hands. While this episode won’t repair what is happening, I hope it will give a face and a voice to the war.
In this emotional episode, you’ll hear Tetiana recount her personal experience as a Ukrainian civilian volunteer working to help her father’s unit in the war. She explains her decision to leave her job at Spotify in Silicon Valley to return home to her family and help in whatever way she could. Now, she has started a venture capital firm, founded to source and nurture pre-seed stage defense tech companies with an impact on Ukraine’s victory.
Be sure to subscribe, leave us a rating, and share with your friends if you liked this episode!
She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Tetiana, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new, and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. In
light of recent news, it felt only right to share
(00:31):
our episode with Tetiana Podle, the Ukrainian woman who returned
home to Ukraine to do her part to help with
the war effort.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Over these past.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Few months, it has felt difficult to grasp into actions
that feel meaningful when it seems like everything is out
of our hands. While this episode won't repair what is happening,
I hope it'll give a face and a voice to
the war. On this emotional episode, you'll hear Tetiana recount
her personal experience as a Ukrainian civilian volunteer working to
(01:04):
help her father's unit on the warfront. She explains her
decision to leave her job at Spotify and Silicon Valley
to return home to her family and to help in
whatever way she could. When I spoke to Tatiana last year,
her father was recovering from a serious injury. Now healed,
he's received an award from President Zelenski for the defense
(01:26):
of Ukraine a huge honor. She has started a venture
capital firm founded to source and nurture precede stage defense
tech companies with an impact on Ukraine's victory. Links to
that will be on our website. I'll let Tatiana and
her story speak for itself. Hey, Tetiana, Cajhhi.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Hey, Hi see everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So good to see you guys. And this is actually
my first time seeing you both together.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, And I think it's also the time that
we've seen each other since Ukraine, like we've spoken.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, it's been a year, right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This is so special and unusual that we can do
this episode and have this conversation. We recorded a ton
of the conversations with Tatiana when you were in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
But first, can you just tell me what are your
names and what do you do.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
My name is Pasiana Bodel and I am a legal
consul at Spotify.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And I'm Kajhuarson.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I'm a former Navy seal war correspondent and journalist, and
i am the president of the Guild Foundation, where I
do philanthropic work.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impact
to these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. On
this special episode of She Pivots, I had the honor
(03:10):
of sitting down with Tetiana Podo, a Ukrainian American who's
worked since the start of the Ukraine War as a
civilian volunteer. Her story is one of the many untold
stories of civilians who have helped defend Ukraine against Russia.
After immigrating to America as an attorney, her seemingly normal
life working for Spotify was uprooted when Russia invaded and
(03:32):
her fifty seven year old father volunteered to serve in
the war. Compelled to do her part for her country,
Tetiana flew to Ukraine and scraped together what connections and
resources she had to help her father's unit. Now over
a year after, I am honored to bring her.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Story to you.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So we just wanted to give a little context to
explain how we know each other, or how it was
all came to be, how I almost actually went to
Ukraine to review you. So it started. It started with
Kaj Kaj you and I have known each other for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, and then, as as per usual for our friendship,
I received a random call from you saying that there's
this major geo political issue and you know, you're interested
in people who might be.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Involved and engaged.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And honestly, the very first person that came to mind
who had such an interesting backstory and was doing such
interesting work was Tatiana and we had had the privilege
of meeting when I was over in Ukraine. We ended
up meeting each other in a cafe in.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Leviv, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
A hotel, hotel where all the international journalists styed.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Yes, it was during the early days of the war,
I remember, and Cash, I just really want to applaud
you because that's when it was very dangerous and very
few people were in Ukraine and especially foreign. I just
remember you know that we actually were walking during the
air race siren and we were looking for a place
(05:10):
where we're going to sit and talk and we couldn't
and then you said, oh, I know one place, there
is this hotel or you can sit during the air
rings siren. And I was like, when we walked in there,
I felt like I was in a book, you know,
like all these war books, except it was reality. I
remember we were introduced to each other through mutual connection.
(05:32):
Also an American and at the time I was looking
for a vest for the vest for my.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Dad's unit, and then you offered some help. So that's
how we met.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I think, Emily, what's so hard to describe is
that's how it was in the beginning of the war,
like everybody just moving as fast as they could. You
met a random person who knew where some armored vests
were being stored, like I had. Tetyana said, like one
of the guys from her dad's unit to go check
it out, and like, you know, we fought and we
bought that war with duct tape and dental floss and
(06:08):
that's how we did. But it was just kind of
the personal connections between people who cared, and I think
that's how our friendship started, and just the serendipity of
meeting like minded folks I think was actually, Look, the
Ukrainian military is the one who has done the heavy
lifting in terms of the combat and the conflict. But
I think a lesser told story are these thousands of volunteers,
(06:30):
both American veterans, American civilians, American Ukrainian civilians like Tetana,
and then international volunteers who have acted as a force
multiplier to help that effort.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
And it's really pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So Tatiana, why did you agree to do this interview?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
It's been a year. You know, maybe it's not on
the front page of the news, but for me, it's
really horrible. It's still my father is there fighting. You know,
It's like you never get used to the fact that
every morning people you love are in danger. I don't
see that much of like personal stories, you know, of
(07:10):
regular people where there is a human face to this
whole war. Of course, I understand it's natural for a
lot of people. I mean for people in Ukraine. You know,
at some point it's just like so horrible that your
psyche is learning to adapt to this, right, but it's
(07:31):
still horrible and it's still going on, and I feel
it's really still important to talk about it, talk about regular.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
People who are living with this.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
And you know, I'm just a person among many many people.
I'm just like an example of many many people. Because
I think this war is really a team effort, a
team effort of Ukrainian society.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This is our fight together.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Russian invasion of Ukraine is underway.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
War in Ukraine has started large scale military drills this morning.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
And this is a very dangerous moment, stooking fears of
an invasion. More than two thousand Ukrainian troops are proving
to be a tough underdog, clawing back territory from Russia.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
So much, it's just like, no fear.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm like, I don't feel anything insident.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
On February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, Russia invaded Ukraine,
another attack after nearly a century of ongoing strife between
the two countries, and Tatiana watched from Silicon Valley as
her home country fell into chaos. She was there just
ten days earlier, driving through Kiev with her father.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
And I remember when I was driving through Kiev, I was.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like, is it possible. It's going to be worse. It's
not possible.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
Look at this, Like, look at this shopping mall is
so beautiful, of this building.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
The life that she had built with her husband in
America was about to change forever. After moving to California
to gain her Masters of Law from UC Berkeley, Tatiana
had a quiet but normal life in America. What brought
her here was an intense interest in democracy that came
from her childhood and made the war all the more
personal to her.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I've been always very passionate about the rule of law,
legal system, democracy, all of these values. I grew up
in bos Soviet Ukraine, but it was in independent Ukraine.
I always like to say that you know Ukraine and
I we are.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The same age.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It was definitely hard times in terms of poverty, but
I also don't know anything else than Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
It was my country, so.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Were people in the US.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What did poverty in a post Soviet world look like
when you're growing up.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Well, the story my dad likes to tell is that
when I was born, they couldn't get a blas for me.
So they stood in lines waiting to buy a blanket
for hours and days, and I think some highway they
got it. So I do remember Paulverty in a way
that there was not much choice.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Tetyana clearly remembers the constraints of post Soviet Ukraine from
her childhood and later saw the benefits of that freedom
for her sister, who's twelve years younger. Those memories, combined
with the stories of her grandparents and great grandparents reminded
her that there's so much at stake in this war.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Yes, it's something very painful. And the stories that I
didn't really like to listen to, you know, when I
was little, because they are very, very heartbreaking. So I
sort of started remembering them when the war started. And
you know how my grandmother she just like, when the
(10:55):
war started, my grandmother was like, oh, this happened again.
They did this to us when we were little. She
actually died this year, she was eighty nine. So she
said she experienced the Soviets coming to Ukraine and her
family they used to have a lot of land and
(11:16):
the house and they were disowned everything and they were
put into a stable while the Russians, you know, we
lived in their house, and some of her siblings actually
died because they froze to death and were hungry.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So it's all sort of muddled in my head.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
But I know for a fact that some of my
great grandparents were in Russian concentration camps gulags. That's where
they prosecuted Ukrainians and they called them nationalists because they
spoke Ukrainian. So, you know, recently a lot of country
(12:00):
recognize what Ukraine went through in nineteen thirty two, So
it was an artificial servation. And basically it was not
the only one. So there were multiple ones, and they're
called holodo more, which is means death by starvation.
Speaker 8 (12:19):
This is the story of the Holodomore, a man made
famine and the worst that Ukraine has ever seen.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
Famine hit several parts of the Soviet Union from nineteen
thirty two to nineteen thirty three, but in Ukraine it
became known as the Holodomore, a term meaning death by starvation.
It was genocide carried out by a dictator who wanted
to keep Ukraine under his control.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And my great grandmother she was started to death and
that's how she died. So she's just like one of
the examples of many millions. I think it's like just alone.
In nineteen thirty two, it was six.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Million people who died, you know. Then also my.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Grandmother died in June, was also she was you know,
she was grieving for my dad.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
For her, it was a shock.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Basically, she stopped eating and I think I think she
was just she died of because she felt so sad
and depressed, and I guess that's why Ukrainians are now
so resistant to this and fighting because they know this
has happened already in the past, and then the history
(13:40):
repeated itself.
Speaker 8 (13:41):
We have gunfire and explosions have been heard here and
in the second city of Kharkiv. Shortly after the Russian
President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation in Ukraine's Donbas.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
Russia overnight launched its long anticipated attack on Ukraine, striking
military post across the country. An unprovoked war in Europe
is now under way.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Soon she was back on a plane to Eastern Europe
to be with her family after putting in a request
for leave to Spotify, which they granted to support.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Her efforts from there.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
She had no idea the impact she would have coordinating
housing for refugees and the movement of supplies to her father,
who served as the deputy commander in Ukraine's Territorial Defense
Forces since the start of the war.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And look, in the beginning, it was really really terrifying.
There was active conflict and combat. You know, we were
rescuing hundreds of people a day, helping them get out,
all women and children from Ukraine from the east to
pull into safety into other European countries.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
When I got to Ukraine, it was spring. It was
about March or April. My husband and I we flew
from the US to Poland. It was like we wanted
to get my mom and sister out of Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
That was like the most dangerous times.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Our hometown was getting bombed many times, and also Belarus
wanted to invade av.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Reigion at that time.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And it was the first time I saw Ukraine during
war times, because the last time I was in Ukraine
it was in February and it was just before the war,
so you know, like the atmosphere was very intense. People
didn't know what to expect. We heard all of these
news from the US and other countries that there might
(15:42):
be an imminent war. People didn't believe that there would
be a war.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
From a national security perspective. There were a lot of
indicators prior to the invasion that Russia was going to
cross the line into Ukraine. There was intelligence reports, there
was troop movement, and there was of course the historical
context of what had happened in the Don Boston twenty
fourteen and the annexation of Krimea. Despite all of those indicators,
(16:09):
I think even among the community of national security professionals,
there was sort of a psychological disbelief that there could
be another major shooting war on the European continent.
Speaker 10 (16:22):
Marking his first full year in office, mister Biden predicted
President Putin would move in on Ukraine, but said he
didn't think Moscow wanted a full blown war. Our Washington
correspondent Gary o' donahue.
Speaker 11 (16:33):
Reports his troops have essentially surrounded Ukraine on three sides.
As many as one hundred thousand are stationed near the
border in Russia and Crimea, and now troops and fighter
jets have been sent to Belarus to stage military exercises
on Ukraine's northern border.
Speaker 10 (16:50):
The invasion began on February twenty fourth.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
For months, Russia had been massing troops on Ukraine's border.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Were people do they feel caught off guard?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Even though you've been, you know, semi thinking that Russia
may move in since twenty fourteen, did it still feel surprising?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I think it was surprising to all of us. Do
you know, even in February, as we all read the
news about the plans, you know, of Russia to invade Ukraine.
I was in Ukraine on the February thirteenth, so okay,
ten days before the war. I was supposed to leave
Ukraine on February twentieth, but I moved my ticket to
(17:34):
February thirteenth because our airspace was being closed.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
When the war started, Russia invaded from almost all fronts,
targeting cities across Ukraine. After the airspace closed, the only
way to get in or out was to cross the border.
But with active war zones throughout the country, she had
to be strategic.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
But there's no playbook for how you enter a war zone.
You just have to figure it out. In those days,
it was the wild wild West, literally the wild wall
western Ukraine, and you had everybody like transitting in and
out to help.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
When I came back, the airspace over Ukraine was closed.
The only way to come to Ukraine was through Poland by.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Car or by bus.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
And there were not so many people entering Ukraine at
the time. It was like people were exiting Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
There were lines.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
How did you know even those steps of how to
cross the border.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
The actual crossing the border was just the same. We
just gave out a passport and they stamped out a passports,
so you know what the situation on the border also changed,
and I was at that border many many times. So
the first time I was at the border during times
war times was in early March when I came to
(18:54):
the Polish border from the Polish side to bring my
mom and sister to Nobody was entring Ukraine and everybody
was leaving and there were a lot of people. Well
I was very shocked, honestly, so it was very very cold.
My mom and sister were standing in line. There were
so so many people and like you know, all the
(19:15):
humanitarian aid and clothes everything and like food, all of
these things like that normally didn't like weren't there during
normal times. At that time, Ukraine allowed Ukrainians to cross
the border on foot. That's not normal so at that time,
because there were so many Ukrainians, so my mom and
(19:35):
sister were waiting like maybe like five hours or so.
So my mom and sister just had like literally backpack,
so we had nothing. So they crossed the border and
we had no idea at that point if they would
be returning to Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
At the time, the goal was simply to get her
mom and sister out quickly, not knowing what would happen. Next, Tatiana,
her mom, and her sister spent three weeks in Poland.
After the situation changed, they decided it was time to
enter Ukraine. Tediana's first time seeing it since the war started.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
At that time, like the border was like almost empty,
nobody was there. So that's when I entered Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
When we returned to Ukraine, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The first thing I saw was like maybe like once
we passed the border, I saw a military checkpoint and
that's where I realized, oh wow, this like there is war,
you know in Ukraine, and it's just like all the
streets I know so well. And then it's like, you know,
I'm like driving through the country and I'm like, oh wow,
(20:42):
so people are just like walking on the streets, so that's.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Kind of normal.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
But then I'm like, oh, but then there is this
billboard and the billboard features Russian soldiers, and the billboard
is like, oh, Russian occupant, you have nothing to find
in Ukraine, you know, like just go back, go back
to Russia. I remember my dad picked us up, so
(21:08):
it was me, my mom, and my sister, and there
was also an American ex marine. I was like, I remember,
I wanted to buy something at the gas station and
my dad is like, oh, it cannot buy a guest
like anything right now because there is an.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Air raid siren.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
And then that evening we just drew to our house
and it was crazy because my mom hasn't been in
our house since the beginning of the war, and we
weren't like, like it was very emotional. We thought we
would never see our house again.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
During this time, Tetiana's family had two Americans staying with
them who were there to help with the war.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Guests. In her mother's eyes.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
We had that also American guest, like you know, staying
with us for two days or something. And my mom
was like what she started doing, She started like cleaning,
She started cleaning everything. And the crazy thing I also
remember about the evening was like we were like serving everything,
like food and everything and everything like kind of looks
also normal. But then at that time, like there is
(22:07):
like a real a rate siren that you can hear,
like I could hear.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The juxtaposition of having this almost normal feeling evening, like
hosting gas in your home with the beginning of a
war outside.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Yeah, and that's what still puzzles me, Okay, because some
people say, oh, like Ukraine, there is just like a
normal life here, and to some extent, yes, that's how
people stay saying, you know, like go see their family
or go buy food, right, so that's kind of normal.
But then all the other things are totally not normal
(22:40):
because I'll tell you, you know, I go to the
city center and there is like this cathedral, there's a
priest and there's a ceremony for dad soldiers from our region.
So and you can like you're walking on the street
and hear their name. You know, it's like life, I'm
walking through the city and there's somebody dad to fighting,
your know, for all of us to have this normal life.
(23:04):
So that's how I would describe this the reality in Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Tatiana was doing her best to do her part to
help in the war and first started to help refugees
find living accommodations all over Europe.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
I remember I was like just writing to all of
my friends like, oh, I have this person, can you
please host them in Sweden? And then my coworker from
Spotify and Munich also hosted somebody in Munich. It was
such a huge startup and I think this is for
all Ukrainians. I just write on Facebook something like oh,
(23:40):
I need somebody to buy this and to pick up
something there. And then surrandomly some Ukrainian in Frankfort would
go to Frankfort and pick up, like, I don't know,
something like some T shirts and drive them to Ukraine.
As I was in Poland, I was very busy with
(24:01):
all of this.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Soon it became clear there was more to do, and
she began procuring any and all supplies needed for her
father's unit. It started with a grassroots effort to raise
thirteen thousand dollars to deliver over one hundred pairs of
combat boots to the front line.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
So the story with the boots was like, oh, my godmother.
She had business partner from whom she bought shoes because
she is in this business of you know, she sells
sportswear in Ukraine. My dad's unit needed that, and she
was like, Okay, I'm just going to buy those boots
from him, but I need money. So my husband and
(24:38):
I were raising money to buy boots from my dad's
You need.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And when you started raising money to buy boots and
buy armor for your father's unit, did you just do
that all on your own or was there a sense
of within the Ukrainian network of people saying hey, this
is needed, can people go out and get us supplies?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Was more like through talking to my dad or to
the commanders.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Okay, I asked all of my.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Friends in my network, and they just like, you know,
sent money directly to the merchant and then you know,
my godmother picked it up.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And then but.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
For something else, it was also like okay, we need
to buy this from somebody, and somebody just like so
it wasn't like through some organization, and every project was
just had a different structure, different people. Like for example,
I went to some of the Ukraine Now meetings. It's
one of the NGOs with a lot of volunteers, and
(25:40):
I just said, oh, I'm here in the Boloin region.
My dad is in you know, in the Ukrainian army,
and they need this and that.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And then some.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Lady was like, oh, sure, I can just bring a
lot of helmets to him, and I'm like great.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Her father is one of the highest in command. But
before running the Territorial Defense Forces, he was a well
known journalist in Ukraine, famous for his sharp criticism of
the government.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
My dad he also pivoted and he was a real
like pivot because he is a journalist. You know, all
of his life he's been a journalist in Ukraine. He
is like a chief editor of a regional newspaper and
worked for many other newspapers, and he got a lot
of awards in Ukraine. There is something like a recognized
(26:30):
journalism in Ukraine is like the highest award professional award
in Ukraine. And he's also part of multiple organizations, nonprofit
organizations that work a lot with international media outlets.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So he had never been in the military before.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
No, but like you know, he's been forcefully drafted as
all citizens of Soviet Union, he's been drafted, and you know,
he was in Siberia and he's still traumatized from those times.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
He still he knows how Russia is.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
He when sometimes he tells the stories, it's pretty horrifying.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
This was during the time when Ukraine was a republic
of the Soviet Union.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
He was a child, he was eighteen years old. All
male citizens of the Soviet Union were forced to like
you know, like I don't even know military service or something. Yeah,
So he's like a regular citizen and just like within
the last year he joined the Territory of Defense unit.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Since we recorded this interview. Tediana's father suffered an injury
to both hands that required surgery. Tetiana contacted me to
try to use American contacts to get him sent back home,
but wars relentless, so they sent him back to the
front without time for proper surgery.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
He continued serving, he does still have some health concerns,
and I guess it was for me very surprising when
he got redeployed, because we were hoping he would go
through surgery. But exactly during the week when he was
supposed to go to the doctor, they his unit suddenly
(28:07):
got redeployed to the east, And that was like really hard.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
For me and shocking.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
You know, he's been serving honorably for about a year.
You know, he's also a senior guy, fifty seven years old.
You know, so I don't see I almost never see him.
I asked my dad, Oh, so where are you? I
know that here somewhere, but like some approximately where, but
(28:34):
like I don't know really where.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
He doesn't tell us.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You know, did you feel safe when you went there
the few times that you did go to the unit.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
I felt like because there's no active combat here in
our region, and we're quite close to to Belarus, but
it didn't feel that bad, you know.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Dorus is actually an important strategic component of the Russian
invasion of Ukraine. First, you have the historically close relationship
between Belarusian President Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin. They are allies,
and there was always a concern going back to the
very early days of the war that the presence of
Russian troops and Russian military equipment in Belarus meant that
(29:19):
there could be an invasion from the north. There was
also always and still present to this day, the threat
that Belarus would join the Russian coalition and invade from
the northern part of Ukraine. This is really strategically significant
because it's always forced the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in
the Ukrainian military to pay special attention to the northern
(29:41):
border with Belarus and divide the focus of their efforts
and their resources just in case that happened. Additionally, it
had pretty severe psychological consequences for the Ukrainian people. The
Ukrainian population that live in the regions close to the
Belarusian border, they have always lived and to this day
(30:02):
under the threat of the idea that there could be
an invasion from their neighbors to the north.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well, because Kiva region and the north was invaded through Belarus.
All of the rockets are flying from Belarus, and there
are Russian troops on the border between Ukraine and Belarus,
and basically what's happening. There are Russian troops very close by.
So that's why our region is like a lot of
(30:27):
people are scared. So the thing is that even internal migration,
if you look at my internal migration, a lot of
people from eastern part of Ukraine migrated to western part,
but not so many to my region exactly because of
the wader with Belarus, and there were like everybody was
scared of invasion from Belarus that they would just do
(30:49):
the same they did in Kiev and Chernihiv region.
Speaker 12 (30:53):
The Belarus Ukraine border has been a strategic location for
Russia since it's invaded Ukraine a year ago. One of
the Russian leaders staunchest allies, Alexander Lukashenka of Belarus, has
told the BBC he'd be willing to allow Russia to
launch a fresh ground assault from his country.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I could divide this last six months to like three stages.
Like first stage was like I had like it was
a shock, but like also a lot of energy. I
was like, I don't know what happened to me, but
I was like, oh now I'm going to fight, like
I'm going to do whatever it takes. So I didn't sleep,
and I was working and doing everything the same like
(31:35):
you know, when I came here, I was very very active,
and then at some point I was depressed. I was depressed.
I felt apathy. I just wanted to cry all the time.
I couldn't just understand what's going on when I saw,
you know, what's happening to Ukraine, how it's getting destroyed,
(31:57):
you know, and every day there's like all of the
stare act. There is only as much you can take.
And at some point it was like I just couldn't function.
And the third one, I just like started like slowly
returning to normal life, if you can say, in normal
life by doing just like this normal things. You know,
(32:19):
I'm meeting with friends and slowly just like okay, now
I can focus. I used to read so much and
I couldn't read. I started drawing. It also helped me,
I don't know, painting and also helped me emotionally, so
you know, it's just like slowly returning to the times
(32:40):
before the war. But of course it's like it's something
that we'll never forget. Everybody knows somebody who died.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Everybody.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
It's like this war is really real for all of us.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
But people are not scared.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
If anything, people are very committed to victory.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It's like people grieve.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Whenever something bad happens. It feels personal. I don't know,
when they drink the toast and they say to victory,
to victory.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Tetiana, thank you so much for joining us and for
sharing so much with us.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We really appreciate it and thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It was a true honor to interview Tetuana over the
course of six months. She has since left Ukraine after
her leave from Spotify ended, and is living in London.
Tetiana continues to do her part in the war effort
and to help her family. Over the course of these
six months, much has changed on the Ukraine front, and
hopefully more change will come soon. Since the start of
(33:40):
the war over a year ago, Ukraine has put up
a hard fight, something Russia did not expect when they
first attacked. Their unjust and unprovoked actions are against international
norms and through the support of people like Tatiana, the
country continues to hold its own. If you're able to give,
please consider donating. We have on our Instagram at she
(34:01):
pivots the Podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode of
she Pivots. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did,
leave us a rating and tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
(34:23):
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content
on our website at she pivots thepodcast dot com. Special
thanks to the she pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavlosk,
Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director
Christine Dickinson, Events and logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak, and audio
(34:46):
editor and mixer Nina Pollock I en Yourse t pivots
Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new, and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. In
light of recent news, it felt only right to share
(00:31):
our episode with Tetiana Podle, the Ukrainian woman who returned
home to Ukraine to do her part to help with
the war effort.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Over these past.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Few months, it has felt difficult to grasp into actions
that feel meaningful when it seems like everything is out
of our hands. While this episode won't repair what is happening,
I hope it'll give a face and a voice to
the war. On this emotional episode, you'll hear Tetiana recount
her personal experience as a Ukrainian civilian volunteer working to
(01:04):
help her father's unit on the warfront. She explains her
decision to leave her job at Spotify and Silicon Valley
to return home to her family and to help in
whatever way she could. When I spoke to Tatiana last year,
her father was recovering from a serious injury. Now healed,
he's received an award from President Zelenski for the defense
(01:26):
of Ukraine a huge honor. She has started a venture
capital firm founded to source and nurture precede stage defense
tech companies with an impact on Ukraine's victory. Links to
that will be on our website. I'll let Tatiana and
her story speak for itself. Hey, Tetiana, Cajhhi.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Hey, Hi see everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So good to see you guys. And this is actually
my first time seeing you both together.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, And I think it's also the time that
we've seen each other since Ukraine, like we've spoken.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, it's been a year, right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This is so special and unusual that we can do
this episode and have this conversation. We recorded a ton
of the conversations with Tatiana when you were in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
But first, can you just tell me what are your
names and what do you do.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
My name is Pasiana Bodel and I am a legal
consul at Spotify.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And I'm Kajhuarson.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I'm a former Navy seal war correspondent and journalist, and
i am the president of the Guild Foundation, where I
do philanthropic work.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impact
to these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. On
this special episode of She Pivots, I had the honor
(03:10):
of sitting down with Tetiana Podo, a Ukrainian American who's
worked since the start of the Ukraine War as a
civilian volunteer. Her story is one of the many untold
stories of civilians who have helped defend Ukraine against Russia.
After immigrating to America as an attorney, her seemingly normal
life working for Spotify was uprooted when Russia invaded and
(03:32):
her fifty seven year old father volunteered to serve in
the war. Compelled to do her part for her country,
Tetiana flew to Ukraine and scraped together what connections and
resources she had to help her father's unit. Now over
a year after, I am honored to bring her.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Story to you.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So we just wanted to give a little context to
explain how we know each other, or how it was
all came to be, how I almost actually went to
Ukraine to review you. So it started. It started with
Kaj Kaj you and I have known each other for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, and then, as as per usual for our friendship,
I received a random call from you saying that there's
this major geo political issue and you know, you're interested
in people who might be.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Involved and engaged.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And honestly, the very first person that came to mind
who had such an interesting backstory and was doing such
interesting work was Tatiana and we had had the privilege
of meeting when I was over in Ukraine. We ended
up meeting each other in a cafe in.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Leviv, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
A hotel, hotel where all the international journalists styed.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Yes, it was during the early days of the war,
I remember, and Cash, I just really want to applaud
you because that's when it was very dangerous and very
few people were in Ukraine and especially foreign. I just
remember you know that we actually were walking during the
air race siren and we were looking for a place
(05:10):
where we're going to sit and talk and we couldn't
and then you said, oh, I know one place, there
is this hotel or you can sit during the air
rings siren. And I was like, when we walked in there,
I felt like I was in a book, you know,
like all these war books, except it was reality. I
remember we were introduced to each other through mutual connection.
(05:32):
Also an American and at the time I was looking
for a vest for the vest for my.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Dad's unit, and then you offered some help. So that's
how we met.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I think, Emily, what's so hard to describe is
that's how it was in the beginning of the war,
like everybody just moving as fast as they could. You
met a random person who knew where some armored vests
were being stored, like I had. Tetyana said, like one
of the guys from her dad's unit to go check
it out, and like, you know, we fought and we
bought that war with duct tape and dental floss and
(06:08):
that's how we did. But it was just kind of
the personal connections between people who cared, and I think
that's how our friendship started, and just the serendipity of
meeting like minded folks I think was actually, Look, the
Ukrainian military is the one who has done the heavy
lifting in terms of the combat and the conflict. But
I think a lesser told story are these thousands of volunteers,
(06:30):
both American veterans, American civilians, American Ukrainian civilians like Tetana,
and then international volunteers who have acted as a force
multiplier to help that effort.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
And it's really pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So Tatiana, why did you agree to do this interview?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
It's been a year. You know, maybe it's not on
the front page of the news, but for me, it's
really horrible. It's still my father is there fighting. You know,
It's like you never get used to the fact that
every morning people you love are in danger. I don't
see that much of like personal stories, you know, of
(07:10):
regular people where there is a human face to this
whole war. Of course, I understand it's natural for a
lot of people. I mean for people in Ukraine. You know,
at some point it's just like so horrible that your
psyche is learning to adapt to this, right, but it's
(07:31):
still horrible and it's still going on, and I feel
it's really still important to talk about it, talk about regular.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
People who are living with this.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
And you know, I'm just a person among many many people.
I'm just like an example of many many people. Because
I think this war is really a team effort, a
team effort of Ukrainian society.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This is our fight together.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Russian invasion of Ukraine is underway.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
War in Ukraine has started large scale military drills this morning.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
And this is a very dangerous moment, stooking fears of
an invasion. More than two thousand Ukrainian troops are proving
to be a tough underdog, clawing back territory from Russia.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
So much, it's just like, no fear.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm like, I don't feel anything insident.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
On February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, Russia invaded Ukraine,
another attack after nearly a century of ongoing strife between
the two countries, and Tatiana watched from Silicon Valley as
her home country fell into chaos. She was there just
ten days earlier, driving through Kiev with her father.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
And I remember when I was driving through Kiev, I was.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like, is it possible. It's going to be worse. It's
not possible.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
Look at this, Like, look at this shopping mall is
so beautiful, of this building.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
The life that she had built with her husband in
America was about to change forever. After moving to California
to gain her Masters of Law from UC Berkeley, Tatiana
had a quiet but normal life in America. What brought
her here was an intense interest in democracy that came
from her childhood and made the war all the more
personal to her.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I've been always very passionate about the rule of law,
legal system, democracy, all of these values. I grew up
in bos Soviet Ukraine, but it was in independent Ukraine.
I always like to say that you know Ukraine and
I we are.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The same age.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It was definitely hard times in terms of poverty, but
I also don't know anything else than Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
It was my country, so.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Were people in the US.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What did poverty in a post Soviet world look like
when you're growing up.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Well, the story my dad likes to tell is that
when I was born, they couldn't get a blas for me.
So they stood in lines waiting to buy a blanket
for hours and days, and I think some highway they
got it. So I do remember Paulverty in a way
that there was not much choice.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Tetyana clearly remembers the constraints of post Soviet Ukraine from
her childhood and later saw the benefits of that freedom
for her sister, who's twelve years younger. Those memories, combined
with the stories of her grandparents and great grandparents reminded
her that there's so much at stake in this war.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Yes, it's something very painful. And the stories that I
didn't really like to listen to, you know, when I
was little, because they are very, very heartbreaking. So I
sort of started remembering them when the war started. And
you know how my grandmother she just like, when the
(10:55):
war started, my grandmother was like, oh, this happened again.
They did this to us when we were little. She
actually died this year, she was eighty nine. So she
said she experienced the Soviets coming to Ukraine and her
family they used to have a lot of land and
(11:16):
the house and they were disowned everything and they were
put into a stable while the Russians, you know, we
lived in their house, and some of her siblings actually
died because they froze to death and were hungry.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So it's all sort of muddled in my head.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
But I know for a fact that some of my
great grandparents were in Russian concentration camps gulags. That's where
they prosecuted Ukrainians and they called them nationalists because they
spoke Ukrainian. So, you know, recently a lot of country
(12:00):
recognize what Ukraine went through in nineteen thirty two, So
it was an artificial servation. And basically it was not
the only one. So there were multiple ones, and they're
called holodo more, which is means death by starvation.
Speaker 8 (12:19):
This is the story of the Holodomore, a man made
famine and the worst that Ukraine has ever seen.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
Famine hit several parts of the Soviet Union from nineteen
thirty two to nineteen thirty three, but in Ukraine it
became known as the Holodomore, a term meaning death by starvation.
It was genocide carried out by a dictator who wanted
to keep Ukraine under his control.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And my great grandmother she was started to death and
that's how she died. So she's just like one of
the examples of many millions. I think it's like just alone.
In nineteen thirty two, it was six.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Million people who died, you know. Then also my.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Grandmother died in June, was also she was you know,
she was grieving for my dad.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
For her, it was a shock.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Basically, she stopped eating and I think I think she
was just she died of because she felt so sad
and depressed, and I guess that's why Ukrainians are now
so resistant to this and fighting because they know this
has happened already in the past, and then the history
(13:40):
repeated itself.
Speaker 8 (13:41):
We have gunfire and explosions have been heard here and
in the second city of Kharkiv. Shortly after the Russian
President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation in Ukraine's Donbas.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
Russia overnight launched its long anticipated attack on Ukraine, striking
military post across the country. An unprovoked war in Europe
is now under way.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Soon she was back on a plane to Eastern Europe
to be with her family after putting in a request
for leave to Spotify, which they granted to support.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Her efforts from there.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
She had no idea the impact she would have coordinating
housing for refugees and the movement of supplies to her father,
who served as the deputy commander in Ukraine's Territorial Defense
Forces since the start of the war.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And look, in the beginning, it was really really terrifying.
There was active conflict and combat. You know, we were
rescuing hundreds of people a day, helping them get out,
all women and children from Ukraine from the east to
pull into safety into other European countries.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
When I got to Ukraine, it was spring. It was
about March or April. My husband and I we flew
from the US to Poland. It was like we wanted
to get my mom and sister out of Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
That was like the most dangerous times.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Our hometown was getting bombed many times, and also Belarus
wanted to invade av.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Reigion at that time.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And it was the first time I saw Ukraine during
war times, because the last time I was in Ukraine
it was in February and it was just before the war,
so you know, like the atmosphere was very intense. People
didn't know what to expect. We heard all of these
news from the US and other countries that there might
(15:42):
be an imminent war. People didn't believe that there would
be a war.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
From a national security perspective. There were a lot of
indicators prior to the invasion that Russia was going to
cross the line into Ukraine. There was intelligence reports, there
was troop movement, and there was of course the historical
context of what had happened in the Don Boston twenty
fourteen and the annexation of Krimea. Despite all of those indicators,
(16:09):
I think even among the community of national security professionals,
there was sort of a psychological disbelief that there could
be another major shooting war on the European continent.
Speaker 10 (16:22):
Marking his first full year in office, mister Biden predicted
President Putin would move in on Ukraine, but said he
didn't think Moscow wanted a full blown war. Our Washington
correspondent Gary o' donahue.
Speaker 11 (16:33):
Reports his troops have essentially surrounded Ukraine on three sides.
As many as one hundred thousand are stationed near the
border in Russia and Crimea, and now troops and fighter
jets have been sent to Belarus to stage military exercises
on Ukraine's northern border.
Speaker 10 (16:50):
The invasion began on February twenty fourth.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
For months, Russia had been massing troops on Ukraine's border.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Were people do they feel caught off guard?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Even though you've been, you know, semi thinking that Russia
may move in since twenty fourteen, did it still feel surprising?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I think it was surprising to all of us. Do
you know, even in February, as we all read the
news about the plans, you know, of Russia to invade Ukraine.
I was in Ukraine on the February thirteenth, so okay,
ten days before the war. I was supposed to leave
Ukraine on February twentieth, but I moved my ticket to
(17:34):
February thirteenth because our airspace was being closed.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
When the war started, Russia invaded from almost all fronts,
targeting cities across Ukraine. After the airspace closed, the only
way to get in or out was to cross the border.
But with active war zones throughout the country, she had
to be strategic.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
But there's no playbook for how you enter a war zone.
You just have to figure it out. In those days,
it was the wild wild West, literally the wild wall
western Ukraine, and you had everybody like transitting in and
out to help.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
When I came back, the airspace over Ukraine was closed.
The only way to come to Ukraine was through Poland by.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Car or by bus.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
And there were not so many people entering Ukraine at
the time. It was like people were exiting Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
There were lines.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
How did you know even those steps of how to
cross the border.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
The actual crossing the border was just the same. We
just gave out a passport and they stamped out a passports,
so you know what the situation on the border also changed,
and I was at that border many many times. So
the first time I was at the border during times
war times was in early March when I came to
(18:54):
the Polish border from the Polish side to bring my
mom and sister to Nobody was entring Ukraine and everybody
was leaving and there were a lot of people. Well
I was very shocked, honestly, so it was very very cold.
My mom and sister were standing in line. There were
so so many people and like you know, all the
(19:15):
humanitarian aid and clothes everything and like food, all of
these things like that normally didn't like weren't there during
normal times. At that time, Ukraine allowed Ukrainians to cross
the border on foot. That's not normal so at that time,
because there were so many Ukrainians, so my mom and
(19:35):
sister were waiting like maybe like five hours or so.
So my mom and sister just had like literally backpack,
so we had nothing. So they crossed the border and
we had no idea at that point if they would
be returning to Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
At the time, the goal was simply to get her
mom and sister out quickly, not knowing what would happen. Next, Tatiana,
her mom, and her sister spent three weeks in Poland.
After the situation changed, they decided it was time to
enter Ukraine. Tediana's first time seeing it since the war started.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
At that time, like the border was like almost empty,
nobody was there. So that's when I entered Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
When we returned to Ukraine, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The first thing I saw was like maybe like once
we passed the border, I saw a military checkpoint and
that's where I realized, oh wow, this like there is war,
you know in Ukraine, and it's just like all the
streets I know so well. And then it's like, you know,
I'm like driving through the country and I'm like, oh wow,
(20:42):
so people are just like walking on the streets, so that's.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Kind of normal.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
But then I'm like, oh, but then there is this
billboard and the billboard features Russian soldiers, and the billboard
is like, oh, Russian occupant, you have nothing to find
in Ukraine, you know, like just go back, go back
to Russia. I remember my dad picked us up, so
(21:08):
it was me, my mom, and my sister, and there
was also an American ex marine. I was like, I remember,
I wanted to buy something at the gas station and
my dad is like, oh, it cannot buy a guest
like anything right now because there is an.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Air raid siren.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
And then that evening we just drew to our house
and it was crazy because my mom hasn't been in
our house since the beginning of the war, and we
weren't like, like it was very emotional. We thought we
would never see our house again.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
During this time, Tetiana's family had two Americans staying with
them who were there to help with the war.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Guests. In her mother's eyes.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
We had that also American guest, like you know, staying
with us for two days or something. And my mom
was like what she started doing, She started like cleaning,
She started cleaning everything. And the crazy thing I also
remember about the evening was like we were like serving everything,
like food and everything and everything like kind of looks
also normal. But then at that time, like there is
(22:07):
like a real a rate siren that you can hear,
like I could hear.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The juxtaposition of having this almost normal feeling evening, like
hosting gas in your home with the beginning of a
war outside.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Yeah, and that's what still puzzles me, Okay, because some
people say, oh, like Ukraine, there is just like a
normal life here, and to some extent, yes, that's how
people stay saying, you know, like go see their family
or go buy food, right, so that's kind of normal.
But then all the other things are totally not normal
(22:40):
because I'll tell you, you know, I go to the
city center and there is like this cathedral, there's a
priest and there's a ceremony for dad soldiers from our region.
So and you can like you're walking on the street
and hear their name. You know, it's like life, I'm
walking through the city and there's somebody dad to fighting,
your know, for all of us to have this normal life.
(23:04):
So that's how I would describe this the reality in Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Tatiana was doing her best to do her part to
help in the war and first started to help refugees
find living accommodations all over Europe.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
I remember I was like just writing to all of
my friends like, oh, I have this person, can you
please host them in Sweden? And then my coworker from
Spotify and Munich also hosted somebody in Munich. It was
such a huge startup and I think this is for
all Ukrainians. I just write on Facebook something like oh,
(23:40):
I need somebody to buy this and to pick up
something there. And then surrandomly some Ukrainian in Frankfort would
go to Frankfort and pick up, like, I don't know,
something like some T shirts and drive them to Ukraine.
As I was in Poland, I was very busy with
(24:01):
all of this.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Soon it became clear there was more to do, and
she began procuring any and all supplies needed for her
father's unit. It started with a grassroots effort to raise
thirteen thousand dollars to deliver over one hundred pairs of
combat boots to the front line.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
So the story with the boots was like, oh, my godmother.
She had business partner from whom she bought shoes because
she is in this business of you know, she sells
sportswear in Ukraine. My dad's unit needed that, and she
was like, Okay, I'm just going to buy those boots
from him, but I need money. So my husband and
(24:38):
I were raising money to buy boots from my dad's
You need.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And when you started raising money to buy boots and
buy armor for your father's unit, did you just do
that all on your own or was there a sense
of within the Ukrainian network of people saying hey, this
is needed, can people go out and get us supplies?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Was more like through talking to my dad or to
the commanders.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Okay, I asked all of my.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Friends in my network, and they just like, you know,
sent money directly to the merchant and then you know,
my godmother picked it up.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And then but.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
For something else, it was also like okay, we need
to buy this from somebody, and somebody just like so
it wasn't like through some organization, and every project was
just had a different structure, different people. Like for example,
I went to some of the Ukraine Now meetings. It's
one of the NGOs with a lot of volunteers, and
(25:40):
I just said, oh, I'm here in the Boloin region.
My dad is in you know, in the Ukrainian army,
and they need this and that.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And then some.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Lady was like, oh, sure, I can just bring a
lot of helmets to him, and I'm like great.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Her father is one of the highest in command. But
before running the Territorial Defense Forces, he was a well
known journalist in Ukraine, famous for his sharp criticism of
the government.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
My dad he also pivoted and he was a real
like pivot because he is a journalist. You know, all
of his life he's been a journalist in Ukraine. He
is like a chief editor of a regional newspaper and
worked for many other newspapers, and he got a lot
of awards in Ukraine. There is something like a recognized
(26:30):
journalism in Ukraine is like the highest award professional award
in Ukraine. And he's also part of multiple organizations, nonprofit
organizations that work a lot with international media outlets.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So he had never been in the military before.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
No, but like you know, he's been forcefully drafted as
all citizens of Soviet Union, he's been drafted, and you know,
he was in Siberia and he's still traumatized from those times.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
He still he knows how Russia is.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
He when sometimes he tells the stories, it's pretty horrifying.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
This was during the time when Ukraine was a republic
of the Soviet Union.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
He was a child, he was eighteen years old. All
male citizens of the Soviet Union were forced to like
you know, like I don't even know military service or something. Yeah,
So he's like a regular citizen and just like within
the last year he joined the Territory of Defense unit.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Since we recorded this interview. Tediana's father suffered an injury
to both hands that required surgery. Tetiana contacted me to
try to use American contacts to get him sent back home,
but wars relentless, so they sent him back to the
front without time for proper surgery.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
He continued serving, he does still have some health concerns,
and I guess it was for me very surprising when
he got redeployed, because we were hoping he would go
through surgery. But exactly during the week when he was
supposed to go to the doctor, they his unit suddenly
(28:07):
got redeployed to the east, And that was like really hard.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
For me and shocking.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
You know, he's been serving honorably for about a year.
You know, he's also a senior guy, fifty seven years old.
You know, so I don't see I almost never see him.
I asked my dad, Oh, so where are you? I
know that here somewhere, but like some approximately where, but
(28:34):
like I don't know really where.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
He doesn't tell us.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You know, did you feel safe when you went there
the few times that you did go to the unit.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
I felt like because there's no active combat here in
our region, and we're quite close to to Belarus, but
it didn't feel that bad, you know.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Dorus is actually an important strategic component of the Russian
invasion of Ukraine. First, you have the historically close relationship
between Belarusian President Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin. They are allies,
and there was always a concern going back to the
very early days of the war that the presence of
Russian troops and Russian military equipment in Belarus meant that
(29:19):
there could be an invasion from the north. There was
also always and still present to this day, the threat
that Belarus would join the Russian coalition and invade from
the northern part of Ukraine. This is really strategically significant
because it's always forced the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in
the Ukrainian military to pay special attention to the northern
(29:41):
border with Belarus and divide the focus of their efforts
and their resources just in case that happened. Additionally, it
had pretty severe psychological consequences for the Ukrainian people. The
Ukrainian population that live in the regions close to the
Belarusian border, they have always lived and to this day
(30:02):
under the threat of the idea that there could be
an invasion from their neighbors to the north.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well, because Kiva region and the north was invaded through Belarus.
All of the rockets are flying from Belarus, and there
are Russian troops on the border between Ukraine and Belarus,
and basically what's happening. There are Russian troops very close by.
So that's why our region is like a lot of
(30:27):
people are scared. So the thing is that even internal migration,
if you look at my internal migration, a lot of
people from eastern part of Ukraine migrated to western part,
but not so many to my region exactly because of
the wader with Belarus, and there were like everybody was
scared of invasion from Belarus that they would just do
(30:49):
the same they did in Kiev and Chernihiv region.
Speaker 12 (30:53):
The Belarus Ukraine border has been a strategic location for
Russia since it's invaded Ukraine a year ago. One of
the Russian leaders staunchest allies, Alexander Lukashenka of Belarus, has
told the BBC he'd be willing to allow Russia to
launch a fresh ground assault from his country.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I could divide this last six months to like three stages.
Like first stage was like I had like it was
a shock, but like also a lot of energy. I
was like, I don't know what happened to me, but
I was like, oh now I'm going to fight, like
I'm going to do whatever it takes. So I didn't sleep,
and I was working and doing everything the same like
(31:35):
you know, when I came here, I was very very active,
and then at some point I was depressed. I was depressed.
I felt apathy. I just wanted to cry all the time.
I couldn't just understand what's going on when I saw,
you know, what's happening to Ukraine, how it's getting destroyed,
(31:57):
you know, and every day there's like all of the
stare act. There is only as much you can take.
And at some point it was like I just couldn't function.
And the third one, I just like started like slowly
returning to normal life, if you can say, in normal
life by doing just like this normal things. You know,
(32:19):
I'm meeting with friends and slowly just like okay, now
I can focus. I used to read so much and
I couldn't read. I started drawing. It also helped me,
I don't know, painting and also helped me emotionally, so
you know, it's just like slowly returning to the times
(32:40):
before the war. But of course it's like it's something
that we'll never forget. Everybody knows somebody who died.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Everybody.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
It's like this war is really real for all of us.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
But people are not scared.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
If anything, people are very committed to victory.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It's like people grieve.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Whenever something bad happens. It feels personal. I don't know,
when they drink the toast and they say to victory,
to victory.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Tetiana, thank you so much for joining us and for
sharing so much with us.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We really appreciate it and thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It was a true honor to interview Tetuana over the
course of six months. She has since left Ukraine after
her leave from Spotify ended, and is living in London.
Tetiana continues to do her part in the war effort
and to help her family. Over the course of these
six months, much has changed on the Ukraine front, and
hopefully more change will come soon. Since the start of
(33:40):
the war over a year ago, Ukraine has put up
a hard fight, something Russia did not expect when they
first attacked. Their unjust and unprovoked actions are against international
norms and through the support of people like Tatiana, the
country continues to hold its own. If you're able to give,
please consider donating. We have on our Instagram at she
(34:01):
pivots the Podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode of
she Pivots. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did,
leave us a rating and tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
(34:23):
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content
on our website at she pivots thepodcast dot com. Special
thanks to the she pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavlosk,
Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director
Christine Dickinson, Events and logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak, and audio
(34:46):
editor and mixer Nina Pollock I en Yourse t pivots
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