Governor Gretchen Whitmer: She Pivots Live from DC

This week, I am thrilled to share our very special LIVE episode with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer from our conversation at Sixth & I in Washington, D.C. Governor Whitmer first took public office at only 32 years old. During her 22 years of public service, Governor Whitmer has always led with grace - and a whole lot of grit. On this episode, Governor Whitmer reflects on her experience in the “sandwich generation,” taking care of her newborn and her mother, all while starting her political career in the Michigan legislature. (She even engages in some fun banter with one of her daughters who was in the audience!) She also shares some important wisdom from her book, True Gretch (now available in a young adult edition!), including the importance of being yourself. 

 

This event was hosted by Sixth & I, a center for arts, entertainment, ideas, and Jewish life in Washington DC.

 

Be sure to subscribe, leave us a rating, and share with your friends if you liked this episode!

 

She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Governor Whitmer, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.

Support the show: https://www.shepivotsthepodcast.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Gretchen Whitmer, the forty ninth Governor of the Great
State of Michigan.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This

(00:33):
week we had a very special live episode with Michigan
Governor Gretchen Whitmer from our conversation at sixth to nine
in Washington, DC. When we began planning this season, I
knew I wanted to have someone on the show who
could speak to the political climate that we're in while
also providing insight on how progress is possible. And Governor

(00:54):
Whitmer is no stranger to challenge. From navigating a plot
to kidnap and kill her to facing a global pandemic,
the governor has led through difficult times. Now in the
midst of a mini plot twist, Governor Whitmer has taken
on a new title New York Times best selling author
with her book True Gretch and the new young adult edition.

(01:16):
During our conversation, she shares key pieces of wisdom from
the book that have shaped her trailblazing career, while merging
our favorite topic, the personal and the professional, as she
shares her experience as part of the Sandwich generation taking
care of her newborn and her own mother, all while
starting her political career in the Michigan legislature. Plus, she

(01:37):
answers one very important question, will she pivot again, perhaps
to one important office. This is an episode you don't
want to miss. Thank you so much to sixth and I,
a center for arts, entertainment, ideas and Jewish life in Washington,
d C, for hosting this amazing conversation. Let's jump right in.

(02:04):
Oh my god, Welcome Governor to d C. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
It's good to be here, the good people of d C.
Oh an Alliance fan there. Nice to see you. All right,
I have.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
To feel that we have more than one Lions fan
in the room here, or at least a big Gretch
fans for sure. Okay, so we're gonna back it up.
We're gonna jump right in. All right, it's back it up,
little gretch. Give me, little gretch, what did you want
to be when you grew up?

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Little Gretch? Wanted to be a sports broadcaster. Actually, I
could have met another life. Actually that would have been fun.
But I'm glad to be here with you now that
you know. When I went to Michigan State, I thought
I was going to be a sports broadcaster. All right,
go green, go white. I heard someone, and I see
you go blue people out there too, And I went

(02:51):
to Michigan State. It was right down the street from
the state Capitol. And my dad, who saw that I
was taking all my communications classes and a couple of
elect is like Bowling, suggested that I do an internship
down at the capitol. And one of the things he
said was, there's so few people. And I think it's
really true today, even more today, So a few people

(03:11):
understand how state government works or how government works, right civics.
They said, go down and do an internship at the capitol,
and maybe you hate it, maybe you love it, but
you'll you'll come away understanding state government better and it'll
carry you into wherever you go, put you on stronger footing.
And I fell in love with public policy. And that's

(03:34):
kind of when I when I pivoted the early pivot.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Do you think that you use anything from that early
sports journalism passion in the work that you do today?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Oh that's a good that's a good question. Yeah. I
think teams. I think team sports is really a great way,
especially for women, to learn about leadership and teamwork and
how to take a loss and dust yourself off. And
so definitely the sports background I think informs a lot

(04:05):
of how I show up today. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, since I'm now dying to wade into this Michigan
State University of Mission, now I will tell you both
my mother went to DUM and my grandparents met there. Wow,
so we actually have some deep Michigan ties.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And I was just on this side. He asked a
couple of questions. Everyone's got some link back to Michigan.
I think I am a Spartan who spawned Wolverine. So
my one of my daughters is right there, and she's
graduating in a few months from University of Michigan.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So look, nothing creates unity like a good rivalry. So
we're going to get the audience up here in it. Anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, I mean, how was that basketball game the other night, Sydney.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
So once you decided politics, I mean, you you did
the internship, you got into it was that it you said,
okay now I'm in Or did you ever even consider
anything else.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
At that point, you know, I fell in love with
it because I saw the difference. So I was as
a junior, your staffer, you do the hard work of
the community, the constituent work, and so I learned about
so much about the people of Michigan who were reaching
into state government, who needed help with this or that.
And I was someone who was able to help connect

(05:15):
people at times or give them, you know, information that
they were seeking. And it was really about people. It's
why I love this work. Even on the hardest day,
and Lord knows, I've had more than my share of
hard days in this job the last seven years. But
even on the hardest day there I get joy out
of knowing that I'm helping people or I'm doing something

(05:36):
that makes a difference in people's lives. So that part
of the job I really, I really love and I
learned that early on that that was public service. That's
what it's all about.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, you had an early formative experience at the beginning
of it something that so many people of our generation
are dealing with. The Sandwich generation of caring for your mother,
your newborn, and in a new job all at the
same time. I mean, how what were your coping mechanisms
and what was your decision making look like at that point.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
So you know, in the year two thousand, I was
running for the State House, was the first office that
I had run for. I was elected, got married, and
my mother had fallen ill with glioblastoma multiform, which is
the worst kind of brain cancer you can get, and
she was told she'd have maybe four to six months
to live. I was pregnant with my first child and

(06:29):
a new member of the Michigan Legislature. They say the
five hardest things that you'll do in the course of
your life is to have a child, the death of
a loved one, a new job, moving your home. All
of these things happened to me in that first that
first year I was in the legislature.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
And yet I.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Think I learned that during that period of time really
forged who I am today. They have no patience for bs,
and I don't have time to try to be something
I'm not. I don't have energy or time to do that,
and so it's helped me show up I think as
I am, and certainly a lot of women who came
before me made that easier for me, and women in

(07:09):
my generation to be our authentic selves and to feel
like we can show up as we are. But I think,
you know, I often talk in sports analogies, now you
know why, But you know, instead of looking at the
one hundred yards down the field, looking at the next ten,
And I think that's how I manage through that time.
What do I need to do today or this week

(07:31):
or this month to get through all of the pressures
that I'm navigating as a member of the Sandwich generation,
a new legislator.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, Otherwise it would just feel overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean when you think about how where am
I going to be? You know, how do I get
that full one hundred yards? And you should always have
a plan, but you got to focus on the now,
and that's that you can take small bites and that's
the easiest way to do it. And I think I
definitely tapped into those that skillut the pandemic, especially when
everything felt so overwhelming, but to do the next right thing.

(08:05):
And I talk a little bit about doing the next
right thing in the.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Book Oh Don't Why We're definitely the pandemic. That topic
we will cover. So a large part of this show
and the way we tell stories is the intersection of
the personal and professional, So trying to open up how
these personal things that happen in our lives end up
impacting our professional decision making. So at that time, how

(08:28):
did your version of success change or was it the same?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, it's interesting. People often ask you, know what, when
you had kids, did your opinions change? Did you change
your values at all? And I would say no, not
at all. My patients did I have zero patients for boloney?
I because I don't have time to wait for someone
else to fix an issue. I want to do it
because I think about the world that my kids are

(08:53):
growing up in, and that people their age are growing
up in, and so so as I as I think
about how we are navigating, you know, the chaos today
or the crises of the last few years, Centering on
that is what helps me stay true to who I
am and why I'm doing this job, but also to

(09:14):
keep me grounded. And nothing keeps you more grounded than
kids who do not think you're cool, even when other
people might.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I mean impressive that you even got her to come
with you.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
I begged her. We were at the White House for
dinner last night, so she was my date and I
begged her to come right.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Care to elaborate on that dinner.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
No, we'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
You went on to become the first woman to be
chosen a Senate minority leader in your state's history. Were
there moments during that time you thought, I mean there
must have been we were like, Okay, I'm super good
at this, like I'm nailing this. Like what were those
moments for.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
You when I felt like I was nailing ass?

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, like I am amazing at being the state SENI
majority of the never you know, I remember my mom,
who I talk a lot about in the book.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
She was really a glass ceiling breaker. She was this blonde,
blue eyed like little woman with this big personality, this
large laugh. She just exuded such confidence and she was
one of the she wrote all the book awards in
her year. She graduated law school while she was raising
us three. Like, she was just this powerhouse of a person.

(10:47):
And I'll never forget her telling me that sometimes she
was as one of the top people in the Attorney
General's office in Michigan, she sometimes would sit there and think,
I wonder if they're going to figure out that I'm
not supposed to belong here. You know, that kind of
imposter syndrome thing that that I think we all feel
at certain points.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
In time, and we done it right now.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
I mean, we don't come out of the womb thinking
that we deserve to be, you know, the leader of
the free world.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
We all put these criteria on ourselves. And that's not
necessarily a bad thing. It keeps you humble. But it also,
I think, is why I never during the time did
I still marvel and people like governor. You know, it's
just I feel really lucky to be where I'm at,
and I know I'm not better than anyone else. And
I talk a little bit about my dad. When I

(11:38):
first got elected. He did an interview and he said,
you know, Gretchen knows she's not special. And I saw that,
and Brent, I thought, oh my god, people must think
my dad hates me or something, or I have really
low self esteem, or but he raised us to so
that we didn't think we were better than anyone else.

(11:59):
That's what he meant, and we don't. And I think
I never felt like, Okay, I'm really killing it. I
saw a job that needed to be done. I didn't
see anyone stepping forward who wanted to take it on
or who was going to be, you know, able to
jump in and do what I thought needed to be done. So,
like a lot of women, I think I just rolled
up my sleeve and said, all right, there's a job

(12:19):
that needs to be done, I'm going to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I do want to ask about your decision to run
for governor at the time that you did, because you
had passed on it in twenty fourteen and then you
decided to run. So what was that timing decision for you?
And again, like, what was your decision making process.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Well, in twenty fourteen, you know, I was in the
state Senate and some had asked if I might consider
running for governor, and it just wasn't the right time
for me. I was, you know, I was already the
Senate Minority leader. I have two little kids at home
as a divorce at that time, and I knew that
it wasn't the right time. I had a big job
and I wanted to see a focus on that. I

(12:56):
left the legislature in twenty sixteen. We have term limits
in Michigan. I served three two year terms in the
House and then two four year terms in the Senate,
and I was term limited out. It's lifetime ban, so
you can't go back. And I really thought I was
going to go into the private sector. And I taught
both at the University of Michigan and Michigan State, which
tells you I can bridge some divides or the biggest

(13:18):
the biggest divide. And the Flint water crisis became public
what had happened in Flint, decisions of government that had
catastrophic impacts on people. And I was looking at the
field of folks that were considering running and I thought,
you know, none of them have been in state government.

(13:38):
I know how to do this, and this needs to
be fixed. And so that's really kind of what inspired
me to run. But then Donald Trump won the state
of Michigan in twenty sixteen, and I looked, you know,
I couldn't believe that my state was played a pivotal
role in that, and I thought, I got to get organized.

(13:59):
I got to get out into this state and talk
to people and find out what's on their minds, because
it just was so hard to believe at the time,
here we are. And so I got out. I got
all across Michigan. Michigan's a big state, all right, I'm
gonna get out my Michigan map. You're ready, Okay. So
Michigan has two hands, and this is the lower Peninsula,

(14:21):
this is the Upper Peninsula. I know people in Michigan
or in Ohio who don't realize we have an upper Peninsula.
It's not Canada, the fifty first state. It's still a
part of Michigan. Okay, So I see we're really writing
off Ohio anywaytisicadding. But when you're in Lansing, Michigan, the
state capital, you're as close to Washington, d c. As

(14:42):
you are to the western end of the Upper Peninsula.
It's a big state. And so I figured I just
got to get across the state and talk to people.
And so my favorite thing to ask people was, if
I'm fortunate enough to get elected governor, what could I
do that'll make your life better? And the thing is
when you ask people, they'll tell you you just got

(15:04):
to listen. I don't think enough people do that, not
just in political life, but anywhere, and over and over
again people would say, I need you to fix the
damn roads. Whether I was in the Upper Peninsula or
downtown Detroit or on the West Side. That was the refrain,
and I heard it over and over again, and so
I started talking about the roads that way, and we're

(15:26):
still working on fixing the damn roads in Michigan. But
it was a conversation with a woman from Flint of
actually I'm talking about Flint again. She I met her
at the Detroit Children's Hospital, and you know, I was
there and it's awkward to be a politician in a
place where people don't expect you, and I wasn't sure
people would want to talk to me at all. But

(15:47):
this woman seemed, you know, friendly, and so I said,
I got to ask you a question. So I asked
her my question. If I'm fortunate enough to get elected,
what could I do that I'll.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Make your life better?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
And she looked me there and she said, I just
need you to fix the damn road. And I was
taken aback a little bit, like we're going to children's hospital.
I thought we're going to talk about healthcare or childcare education.
So I said, okay, tell me more. I wanted to
find out why is this the number one issue for you?

(16:17):
And she explained she's three kids, driving back and forth
from Detroit and Flint to see her one child in
the hospital, hit a pothole, It damaged the room on
her car. It took her off the road for a
whole day, took a ton of money out of her
rent and childcare that she wasn't planning to spend fixing
her car. She missed the day with her son in Detroit,

(16:38):
had to pay for childcare for the others who were
at home. And so it was for me crystallized why
the fundamentals are the most important thing, Because anyone who's
on the margin gets failed if they can't drink the
water coming out of their tap, or they have to
be sidelined for a day because their car's not work,
or have to find a new school or a tutor

(16:58):
for a child if the schools aren't work. And that's
why the fundamentals, the kitchen table issues, is what I've
tried to stay focused on. And that's what I learned
from the people in Michigan, getting all across the state
and asking that question, well do.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
You think that concept of fixed the damn roads? How
did you have success with that as a fundamental? I mean,
to your point, we still need to fix the roads,
something that I think that Democrats have really struggled with
is owning success in a way they can talk about it.
How have you been able to own that success when
dens acknowledgment there's still more work to be done.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, so I ended up having to do a bond
so that we could keep fixing roads. I'm still working
on getting my legislature to help me get a real
long term plane over the finish line. The thing about
roads is that you have billboards everywhere because they're called
orange barrels, and so when you're fixing roads, people see
the orange barrels and they know that the work is

(17:54):
being done, and that helps kind of advertise itself. But
to your point about Democrats failing on the messaging front,
I think that that's one of the big takeaways from
this last cycle, and I think that that's getting away
from taking ownership of the things that we did get done.
I think it was a real you know, we did
allows your job of that in this last cycle.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm going to give that.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
At I think that's a great one.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
How do you think, how do you think it could
have been done differently?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
You can't tell people how to feel, you know, and
so I think around the economy, we can't tell people Okay,
look at what's going on, and you know, in the market,
look at the how much better our inflation is than
European countries. You know, that doesn't fix the problem that
people are having when they see their prices up and

(18:47):
guess what prices are still up? Everybody right. I know
we're talking about Greenland, but we should still be talking
about groceries because that's that's where the rubber hits the road.
And so it's peers that there's a disconnect between what
people are really feeling and need and how we're talking
about it. It's not that we have to change our values.

(19:10):
It's not that we have to change you know, what
we have been able to do, but how we've talked
about it has been completely missing the mark. And I
think it's being disconnected from people and spending time with
real people and asking them what's going on in your life?
What can I do that'll make your life better, and
then doing it.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
After the break, we dive into what pivoting on the
spot is all about. As Governor Whitmer recounts one of
the most difficult and formative years twenty twenty. She dealt
with a global pandemic, catastrophic flooding, a racial reckoning, and
a plot to kidnap and kill her more after the break.

(20:08):
So the show's all about pivoting, meeting the moment where
you are, how you change, what changes in yourself to
rise to that occasion and adapt in that moment. Twenty
twenty was a real year for you, So can you
tell us about your mindset, like how you worked through it,
how your work shifted through the ups and quite frankly
mostly downs of twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Remind me what happened in twenty twenty. You know, when
I had my kids, they're like eighteen months apart, and
when I realized, oh my gosh, one's going to graduate
in twenty twenty and the other's going to be the
class of twenty twenty one. What great classes to graduate
literally the worst two classes to graduate from high school
for their whole generation. You know. As the pandemic hit Michigan,

(20:56):
we were one of the earlier places. Detroit, New York,
Chicago and New Orleans were kind of the hot spots
for a long time. Had just an incredible amount of
loss of life, overwhelmed hospitals. It was really, really hard,
and I know none of us wants to relive it,
but just to kind of remember what was happening. We

(21:17):
had refrigerated trucks outside of our hospitals because there were
so many corpses, you know, people that lost the battle
to COVID that couldn't be buried or cremated right away,
but it had to be you know, refrigerating. It was awful,
and it was really challenging because we did not have
help at the federal level, and navigating that was I

(21:42):
think one of the trying to do the right thing
for people. That's why I do this work. I love people.
My instinct always is to run to where the problem
is and to see how can I help. And that's
the worst thing you could do in a pandemic, because
you just add to the problem. Have to let the
you know, experts do the work, but give them the
supplies that they need. And we were really struggling to

(22:04):
do that. And I remember we were on a call
with the White House and we were told to go
find all the supplies ourselves. And I went on television
and I said, I'm not getting the supplies I need
from the federal government. There's no federal strategy here, and
I need masks for my doctors and gloves and etc. Nurses,

(22:25):
respiratory therapists, and you know, I got I've made someone
really unhappy with my observations. But we started getting help.
People were reaching in and starting to help, and so
it was worth it. But I think it was just
one of those moments where every time I saw a
tweet or me getting singled out, my heart sank. Not

(22:47):
because it hurt my feelings, but because I was worried
that it would impede my ability to get assistance for
the people of Michigan. And that was all I cared about.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Will you now that again we are we are right
back here, Will you approach the relationship with the federal
government differently? Now?

Speaker 1 (23:07):
I stand by what I did. I don't regret what
I did. If I could go back in time with
the knowledge I have now, would I and any governor
have done something different? Of course. But I was fighting
for the people in Michigan and I'm never going to
apologize for that. That's my job when it comes to
the moment that we're in. Now, you know I am.

(23:28):
I'm going to be the governor of Michigan for the
next two years. The State of Michigan elected the president again.
They elected me again, and if I can find common
ground on things, I'm going to try to do that.
But I'm also not going to shy away from fights
that matter when when I need to. That's my job
as Michigan governor.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
You did elicit quite a response in that moment, not
just on the federal side, but within Michigan. Do you remember,
I imagine you do remember, you know what was going
through your head at that moment as you looked outside
your office in the capitol, you saw they were protesters
and they began to storm into the Michigan State Capitol.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah. So there was this group that came together during
the pandemic who were mad that, you know, I had
told them to wear masks and that we were trying
to keep people safe, and they created this group called
Project Gridlock, bankrolled by the DeVos family in Michigan, by
the way. And I was down at my office in

(24:39):
the Romney Building and sitting there. The State Capitol was
across the street, and I was giving my press conference,
which we did multiple, you know, two or three times
a week, depending on what was happening, and they didn't
the protesters didn't know that I was in the building.
So my office is not actually.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
In the Capitol. It's across the street.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I think most people think that the that the office
is in the Capitol. And so I could stand in
the window one floor away from people, and what I
saw was really shocking. I knew that there was going
to be a protest. We weren't trying to stop the protest.
We said, just wear a mask day six feet apart,
you know, you could, you have the right to protest.
But when I looked out the window, people had showed

(25:22):
up with Confederate flags and Nazi symbols. There were signs
that said Hyle Whitmer, and there was a dark haired
barbie hanging from a noose, and it was really stunning.
It took my breath away. There was there's a picture

(25:42):
in the book I took with my phone from the
window that said it said something like, Gretchen Whitmer is
the reason we need the Second Amendment, you know. And
this was the stuff that I saw from my office window.
And I remember taking the picture and looking and seeing
this so clearly, and then realizing, oh my god, I
better get out of this window, you know, like hello,

(26:06):
you know, they were had their guns and so it
was one of those moments I'd taken all these pictures.
I was looking and then I thought, what am I doing,
you know, and then went down and gave my press conference.
But it's you know, we saw the capital of Michigan
get overtaken by protesters with guns before January sixth. Happened here,

(26:28):
and I remember watching January sixth, and everyone said, how
could this happen? We're so surprised, and I'm like, well,
this happened here about nine months beforehand. So I think
the rhetoric and the the willingness of leaders to encourage
people to take up arms and threaten their fellow Americans

(26:49):
is so dangerous. And that's why when when Donald Trump
was shot in Pennsylvania, I put a statement out right
away because it's not okay, you know, no matter who
the victim is. I think there's a.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Lot to be learned from in this moment when you
came into the governor's office, Republicans held both houses, and
yet you still pushed through and forged on. How do
your objectives change if you're in that moment? How does
your strategy change if you're in that moment? What is
potentially applicable to us. Now, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
So you know, my first term it was completely Republican
controlled House and Senate. In my second term, I won
by almost eleven points and we flipped both the House
and Senate for the first time in forty years, which
was amazing. So while I was in the legislature it

(27:47):
was all Republican controlled. Then as governor it was Republican legislature,
democratic governor. Then it was all Democratic controlled. Now we're
back to fifty to fifty that the House is Republican controlled,
the Senators a credit controlled. And I think part of
being of that woman from Michigan is Michigan is a
state that is always in the national eye during our

(28:09):
presidentials because we are the most diverse swing state in
the country. We go back and forth. We have this
tendency to do that, and I think that's not a
bad thing because it forces you to make a seat
at the table and to try to hammer things out.
But now that we've got fairly drawn districts, it will

(28:29):
continue to go back and forth instead of being one
party controlled at the state level for so long. My
strategy in this situation, similar to how it was with Democrats,
in All Control and Republicans in All Control is to
continue to host the quadrant leaders coming together, try to
find common ground, pull people in and build bridges. You know,

(28:50):
I've love to the Mackanaw Bridge is the symbol of
my campaign. It stretches between the two peninsulas. Right. Five
mile long suspension bridge was the longest built at the time.
And you know, I'm proud that my focus is building bridges,
not walls. We want to create opportunity to connect people

(29:12):
and I'm always going to come at any problem with
that mindset.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
You've said that to be a successful politician you need
to have a thick skin and a short memory, and
you tell a great anecdote about sending cake with a
bat to someone who had given you made some disparaging comments.
I really prefer a long grudge hold myself. How can
I overcome that? Like you know, it's a blessing to

(29:41):
have a short memory.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
And in this business, everyone in my family seems to
you know, we do our thing and then we move on,
and that's been helpful. The worst thing is a politician
with a long memory and thin skin, because they're always
out for retribution or looking for a battle. So I'm
not sure how to help you cultivate thicker skin, but

(30:02):
I'll think on that. Oh no, no, I have thick skin,
but a long.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Memory a bad thing, though. I'll come back when you're
least expecting it.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well, they say, bury the hashet, but keep the handle
sticking up right that.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
We were just talking about this backstage. You know, people
keep coming up and saying what do we do? Like,
how do we stay optimistic? What should we be doing?
How are you staying optimistic in this moment?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, you know, and I confessed in the back it's hard,
you know. After the election, I like, I think a
lot of people wanted to turn the TV off for
a while and escape it. I hunkered down in December
and Lancing. We had a lot of snow and my
family was all around, and I might have watched a
few seasons of Dexter. It got to a point where

(30:57):
my kids are like, are you okay? Are you onto
this season's Traders yet? No?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
But I've heard it's great.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
But you know, one of the things I know about
myself is if I isolate, I get more anxious. I
need to be doing something. I need to feel like
I'm doing something that matters. And I was on a
flight the other day and the flight attendant came up
and she said, I'm so worried and I'm I'm talking
to my therapist. What can I do? You know? And

(31:27):
I said, well, you know, my my advice is to
find something.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
That you can do in your community.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
We can make a difference. Whether it's a small thing.
I'm watching some of these town halls in Georgia, people
are speaking out. It's making a difference. And if it's
volunteering at your you know, at a women's health clinic,

(31:54):
or it is simply helping, you know, people who need,
you know, some help, reading to you kids, are visiting
with you know, people who don't get visitors. I mean,
I think that's there's ways that each of us can
do something right now that will help us feel like
we're making a little bit of a difference, will keep
us activated and wear us outsort we go to bed tired.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
I was sharing with you that I live in a
Republican district and my member of Congress isn't holding town halls,
so we have to get a little more creative that way.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yep, but I believe you can.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I appreciate that he'll come back eventually, and I won't
forget she.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Has a long memory. You know.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
The chasm feels so large between the parties right now,
and I actually feel in some ways it's less about
political affiliation and more about information versus non information. As
someone who won in double jeds in twenty twenty two,
how did you break through to those people?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Like?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
How do you you obviously want over people who are
more than just democratically affiliated. How do you break through
when there's not there's not a clear information path.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Right now, we've been really analyzing how people get their information,
and we've kind of reconfigured our all of our efforts
toward toward information dissemination. One of the things that we
do is, you know, someone asked me, do you visit?
Do you think of yourself as an influencer because we've
got like a great social media game. I think it's

(33:30):
not me bragging because it is not me. I don't
even know.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
The passwords, trust me.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I just do what the young people on the staff suggest,
and most times it hits. Sometimes it's a miss. But
you know, I think that it's important to meet people
where they are, and that's I think podcasts are really important.
I think that non traditional ways to reach people is
the way that we can cut through a lot of

(33:56):
the noise. But it's very challenging. There's so much misinformation
out there. There's so many I think companies and interests
that are keen on redirecting people into places where they
don't intend to be or aren't really looking for. And
so we've gotten really creative. We've been I think, relentless

(34:17):
about getting our message out and creative. You know, Big
Gretch was a nickname that I got during the pandemic.
It's I'm named after both my grandmothers, Gretchen and Esther
grandma Gretchen always said, never let anyone call you gretch.
Gretch rhymes with wretch and that ain't pretty, and so

(34:40):
I always had this aversion. If you called me gretch,
was I just oough? And I don't know many women
who like the big on the front of their nickname, right,
so I was. I was in the office, we were
getting ready to do one of my press conferences during
the pandemic, and someone said, you, you know this big

(35:00):
Gretch thing that everyone's calling you in Detroit And I'm like, huh,
And they said, I said, what does this mean. And
so this woman on my staff is Shaquila Myers, who
I've worked most of the last twenty five years with her.
She's like, oh, no, Governor, you don't understand Big Gretch.
It's trending in Detroit. It's your new nickname that detroiters

(35:21):
have given you. And it's like they've given you the
key to the city. You've got the nickname. And then
this rap came out. But so Big Grutch became this
thing and it's hilarious, and now it's my favorite nickname,
which most of my family members are like, I cannot
believe that this is your favorite nickname now, Big Grutch.
But before the movie, the Barbie movie came out, this

(35:44):
woman on my team, who's young and creative and brilliant, said,
let's grab a Barbie. We'll grab the America Ferrera Barbie
and give her a haircut like yours, and we'll call.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Her a little Gretch.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
And I mean, we got awards for this campaign. It's
a wildless thing, a little Gretch in her pink GM
corvettes made in Detroit with little pink traffic cones, fixing
the damn roads, giving a speech at a little podium

(36:20):
that Julia whittled. She whittled a little podium for little
gretch to give a speech at. But we call it
like giving people their vegetables with the little fun social media.
So we talked about the budget with a barbie and
like people saw it and they understood they learned something
at the same time. So you know, I'm not cool,

(36:43):
Like I said, I don't know the passwords, but I
got a phenomenal team and I trust them and ninety
nine out of one hundred times that's great. And every
once in a while I get totally roasted because I
did something. Cringe right, honey, we.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Got a big nood on that one. Thank you the way.
I love the fact that someone asked if you're an influencer,
and you're like, I'm the govenor this new form of
media of meeting people where there are, where they are,
people are choosing what they consume. That's what I think

(37:21):
the hardest part of it is that you have to
actually get in front of them when they're choosing similar
forms of media. That's what I think the hardest part is.
So I feel like most of the conversations of I
guess what we'll call like the persuadables or uninformed or
differently informed. I guess because of term we can use now.

(37:41):
But you know, it's happening with people that are close
to us. Yeah, Like it's a face to face conversation,
it's family, it's in our table, Like we really got
to get in there. How do we give us advice?
Like how do we have those conversations right now without
just a massive eye roll and say, I don't know
where you're getting your information from.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
I think it's it starts with asking the question. You know,
I really do think that listening is a superpower and
it's really important no matter what walk of life, but
especially important if you're going to be a public servant.
Your job is to represent the people. How can you
do that if you don't know what the what they're thinking,
what's on their minds, what's what's standing between them and

(38:22):
whatever goal they have or need that isn't yet met.
And so I you know, even with with people who
are on the other side of the aisle, if you
can connect on something by showing some genuine interest in them,
it opens up a possibility for common ground that you
can build off of. And I really it sounds maybe

(38:43):
sophomoric to be that simple. But I think that's a
that's a good start. You know, My goal, of course,
is to find common ground on my side of the fence, Right,
come on over. But you can't you can't be persuasive
if you don't have and you can't have credibility if
you don't have something to start from.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah. Well, I think this question of what is authentic
for women in power, and it's not just in politics,
it's across the board that what is authentic is really challenging,
and I think we're still unpacking it. I'm actually so
glad that I saw Jennifer Palmery here because what she
said to me after twenty sixteen. We were in the

(39:25):
office one day, and she said that it was too
hard for voters to find Hillary what they considered authentic
because she had spent her entire life being qualified to
be at that table and proving that she was qualified
to be at the table. So I think that she
in many ways broke that glass ceiling for many of

(39:46):
us of the generation of women who had to come
up in a different kind of environment. And I think
it gave Vice President Harris an opportunity to be a
different kind of world's leader. But I think it's still
a I think we still don't know what it means.
So you know, you're this this version of this book
is specifically for young women, for young men, for young adults.

(40:09):
And you talk about being authentic, and you are very
authentic in this book, and really you really give us
some great stuff out there. But how do you think
that we can both honor that part of ourselves it
feels authentic, but lead and be chosen to lead in
this moment where we're still not one hundred percent there.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
We're not. We've made We've come a long way, though,
And you know, I'm always very mindful that the only
reason I can show up as I am is because
there are so many women who walk through this fire
before me and made it easier for me. I think
about Hillary Clinton. I think about you know, Jennifer Granholm
was our first female governor in the state of Michigan,

(40:50):
and she wrote I think in one of her books,
or maybe it was just an interview that I read,
but about how you know she didn't say this, but
I'll say he's a very attractive woman and she always
felt like she needed to wear her hair very short
and wear pants suits you know, to be taken seriously.

(41:12):
And you know what, I show up in a leather
jacket now, and I can show up and talk like
a normal person, not have to be have everything feel
like it's absolutely perfect and sanitized the way that Hillary
Clinton had to just just to have some credibility in
a room. So I feel really lucky that I can show.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Up that way.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
I still have to worry about things that my male
counterparts don't. I still give a State of the States
speech and people talk more about the dress that I
wore than the words that I uttered, and that's maddening.
But I'm mindful that when I own my space, it
makes it easier for other women to do that too.
We saw that in the pandemic with my Secretary of State,

(41:58):
who was under the gun with all of the pressures
around the election. My Attorney General who was in court
battling on all of our behalfs every day. We're all women,
and when each of us took heat, it made it
easier for the other to stand in the breach. And
I think that that's something that as I think about

(42:18):
how I show up and the women who are coming
in or might think about going into this work. I
hope that I'm making it easier for them to show
up as they are and to be their authentic selves, because, gosh,
if we've not learned anything over the last ten years,
it's that people, for whatever reason, need to see something

(42:40):
real that they feel like lots of politicians don't give them.
And showing up as you are is the most powerful thing.
I think, Anne Frankly, who's got energy to be something
you're not anymore? It sounds exhausting, it is.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
We're going to take a quick break before we hear
about Governor Whitmer's latest book, release, True Gretch Young Adult edition.
We'll talk about why she felt compelled to release a
different version and get her insights on the important things
like is America ready for a woman president? And who
will win the Super Bowl next year? Stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
This book is the.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Young adult version of your book? Why a young adult
version and why now? What are you hoping to deliver
to this audience that was different than the first edition.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So when I wrote the first book, one of the
things that happened is I was kind of getting around
talking about it. Was people would tell me I bought
copies for my kids or my grandkids. It's a quick read.
It's ten chapters, short vignettes, but real and humor, but
also lessons that have helped keep me positive when I

(44:02):
ran for reelection, you know, after a pandemic, after a
plot to kidnap and kill me, after demonstrations for racial justice,
in the wake of George Floyd's murder, and the incredible
crises you know of flooding and polar vortex, all the
things thirty two recall attempts. I was counting that one.

(44:24):
After so short on that heavy stuff. People would understandably say,
why do you want to run again? And why do
you still feel optimistic? And so I wrote that book
to put some light out into the world. I knew
the presidential election year would be hard, That's why the timing.
But when people said I bought this for my kids,
I thought, you know, maybe we can do one that
is geared toward young people. So this book's a little

(44:47):
bit different. It's not vastly different. I still have the
real stories that I shared about some of my bad
choices in life, some of my embarrassing moments are It's
all still in there. But we added some more story
from my youth, like losing my first election when I
ran for secretary in fifth grade. There's a Q and
A at the end of the book with my daughters

(45:08):
that is fun and funny and I think good for
young people to be able to see. And there's a
bunch of resources in the back of the book for
young people if they're dealing with mental health crisis or
sexual assault, or a variety of resources so that young
people can access the help they need. And then there's

(45:29):
just a little special thing. Shark is embossed on the
front of the cover because they like to put those
little hidden things in for the young adult versions. So
there's some fun things in this version, and we wanted
to gear it for young people.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
This is a question I ask of all of my guests.
What is something that it can be something we discussed,
or it can be something different. What is something at
the time you thought was really a negative but now
you see it as having really launched you to who
you are now.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
I mean, one of the people that I saw for
counseling over my life said this, and I talk about
in the book, but every one of us is like
a ball of clay, and over our lifetimes, things will
get taken away from us, no fault of our own
in many occasions, but something will be taken away. And

(46:20):
I think about that a lot whenever there's a hardship
or something that I'm struggling with, and that every one
of those things. Sometimes a ball that's been hollowed up
can become a cup, and so it has purpose, and
so every hardship can give you purpose, and I think
about that a lot. I gave a speech on the
Senate floor and revealed that I had been raped when

(46:43):
I was in college, and I had never shared that publicly,
and I knew sharing it probably wasn't even going to
change the outcome of the legislation that was before us,
but I felt like it was important for women who'd
been shut out of the conversation there was no ability
to testify on bills. I felt like I needed to

(47:04):
put a face to who was going to be impacted
by this, and I shared that, and sure enough, it
didn't change a vote I lost. I went home really depressed.
Had to call my dad on the way home to
tell him this because I'd never told him, and this
was going to be in the press.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
I knew it would be in the press.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
And you know, I felt really horrible the next day,
like why did I do this? But then I got
into the office and I heard from so many people
who had also gone through an assault like that, or
knew someone thanked me or shared their story with me,
and I realized what that pain that I had had purpose.
And now I've been able to tell that story and

(47:45):
we've been able to in Michigan codify women's reproductive rights
ten years and so that was kind of a big one.

(48:08):
But it was something that happened that was taken away.
It took a long time twenty years for me to
be able to talk about it. Now I talk about
it without getting choked up, but it took a long time.
And not every person who survives something like that can
find their voice, and I was able to and being
able to use it has helped me find purpose in it.

(48:30):
And so I share that as something that was horrible,
but now I think is something that gives me, helps
motivate who I am today. I love that.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Do you think you'll pivot again, maybe to one particular thing.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Well, January one, of twenty twenty seven, I will be
pivoting because we have term limits in.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Michigan, so I'll keep you a posting on what's next.
We asked the audience for some questions which we have
and we're going to get into. As a point of
personal privilege, I read the book on a snow day,
so my kids are eight, six and four. We're home
with me. Wanted to know what I was reading, so
first we read the chapter titles and then we read

(49:28):
some of the book. So my kids have some questions
for you. Okay, I'll read them all. You can decide
what you want to answer. When you were really young,
did you let all the bullies get you down? Have
you ever done anything embarrassing in public? Do you have
any brothers or sisters? Have you ever met the president?
Have you ever made a fire? What is your pivot?
And why are you on this show? What is your

(49:52):
favorite podcast? Shed better say, mommies. Have you ever been
to the hospital for an unknown reason? Have you ever
flown an airplane? Have any of your dogs ever died?
And did you get another one? What school did you
go to? What did you want to be when you
were a little kid? Have you ever been ice skating
on a little pond on your shoes? Have you ever

(50:12):
jumped in a bucket of mud. I did that once.
We'll say your question, Evelyn, one of my kids is here.
I love those questions. I can't remember any of them, though.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
You can take the bucket of mud question. I love
the bucket of mud. I would love to jump in
a bucket of mud. That sounds a good great We'll
let your social people know. Okay, that sounds like a
really good one. Okay, So I loved this. This is
from I believe a Michigander. What is your proudest professional
accomplishment as governor ps GHO Spartans.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
That's from Nathaniel.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
All right, thank you, Nathaniel go Green. You know, in
this after my re election, when we had full democratic
control of the legislature, we did a lot of things
that were long overdue. So to say one, you know,
is very difficult. But we codified women's reproductive rights. We
were able to ensure all the kids in Michigan get

(51:11):
free breakfast and lunch every day at school. We did
a billion dollars of tax relief for working families. Yeah,
but I signed into law finally getting Michigan on the
right side of history, full civil rights protections for the

(51:32):
LGBTQ plus community. Yeah, and my oldest daughter is a
gay woman, and there's a very funny exchange in the
book about that. I'll just tell you what it is.
So I was getting ready to sign this legislation and
I texted my oldest daughter and I said, you know,

(51:54):
share do you want to be? Would you like to
come to the press conversory I signed the bill as
a member of the community. And she's like, yeah, I'd
love to, mom. And so, you know, I've never pressured
my kids to do things write Sydney. I've never pressured them,
but I always invite them. But they're in charge. They
get to make their own own decisions. And so I said,

(52:15):
would you like to come? She said yes. I said, okay,
how should I refer to you, like as a gay
woman or a member of the community. And we have
a screenshot of our text message in the book and
she writes member of the community lo l Gretchen. So
I'm like, I'm sorry. She goes, I'm a gay woman.

(52:37):
It's fine, call me a gay woman. I'm like, okay,
thank you, and she writes, you're welcome, non community member,
and I wrote, I prefer community ally, and she writes,
you're ridiculous, but like I put a screenshot of our
text exchange in there, but I signed that bill with

(52:59):
my daughter sin next to me, and that was one.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Of my most proud moments. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. We have
a question here from Alexandra. After the results of the
twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four presidential elections and hearing
discussions about twenty twenty eight, I keep hearing that Democrats
won't run a woman for a very long time. How

(53:23):
do you avoid letting comments like this discourage you from
doing the work when it seems like for a lot
of this country it'll never be enough.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Well, number one, that's bs okay. And now I've heard
some people say that this election means America is just
not ready for a woman chief executive. I think that's blowney,
I really do. There were a lot of things that

(53:52):
came to plan this election, and you know what, Kamala
Harris were in a heck of a campaign, but it
was so late. I'll just be honest. I think it
was so late, and it's such a unique moment, and
the candidate on the other side is a unique candidate.
I mean, there are a lot of things at play here.

(54:13):
I think anyone who says that it's because she was
a woman is not paying attention and maybe has their
own agenda. Right if you look at just what even
happened in Michigan and Wisconsin, Tammy Baldwin got reelected, Alissa
Slockin got elected. So you know, we have seen in

(54:33):
a state like Michigan, which is the swingiest of swing states,
we've got all females at the top who are in
all executive offices. This country is ready. I think these
circumstances are really unique, and I'm sure we're going to
have a lot of great candidates in twenty eight and
we are. I think we will see more women rise

(54:54):
up and we will in my lifetime, we are going
to see a woman president.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Here's a question from Grace. What is the best part
of your job and what is the worst part of
your job? Slash, do you think the Detroit Lions will
make it to the Super Bowl next year?

Speaker 1 (55:19):
The best part of my job is every day is different,
and I am with some incredibly talented people, and I
get to see amazing things that are happening in Michigan
that even if I have lived in the state of
my whole life. I'm still learning things about my own
state and I love that, and I think that I'm
so lucky. The hardest part of my job there's just

(55:39):
so many people who are invested in benefiting from problems
rather than solving them, and that gets really frustrated. And yes,
the Lions are going to win the Super Bowl next year.
This is from Andrew from Bethesda.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
If you had to choose one on an issue, a
problem that Democrats need to talk about more, what would
it be? And are there any issues or problems that
Democrats spend too much time talking about?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Okay, I'm not a pundit and I'm never going to
critique my fellow Democrats because I understand that we all
have different roles, especially governors. That being said, I don't
know that we've got to rebuild who we are and
what we care about. I do you think we've got
to talk about it better? We've got to be better
communicators and stay focused on the things that really move

(56:31):
people and touch people and improve people's lives. We are
living in very chaotic times where there are so many
things to be pulling our attention from, and there are
I'm not saying they're not important, but we've got to
be really I think thoughtful about what's going to matter

(56:51):
to people most, and really be disciplined about having real
solutions to what people are vexed with. It's not simple,
it's not easy, and I think we're going to deal
with a lot of chaos over the next days, weeks,
and months. But there's a lot of work that we
have yet to do.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Here's a question from Cassie as a graduating high school
senior who led high school outreach for youth for Harris Walls.
I've seen firsthand both the excitement and the challenges of
engaging young people in politics. What do you think are
the most effective ways to not only get young people
involved in civic engagement, but to ensure they stay engaged
beyond elections.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
I love that question. I would like to ask that
back to the person that wrote the question as first,
who's oh, hi, all right? Let's I mean you're in it,
You're doing it. One of the things that we saw
in Michigan in twenty twenty two was the highest youth
voter turnout in the country was in the state of

(57:53):
Michigan in twenty twenty two. It's part of how I
won by eleven points. We also had abortion rates on
the ballot. We had an energy that was out there,
and I am mindful of how do we continue to
harness this and keep this energy up? And it's challenging.
Even in this last election, we saw it start to

(58:13):
wane and people said, does it Is it because people
think that the issues settled? Now? I think people, I'm
not quite sure what the answer is to it, but
I think you're going to have to be a part
of helping us figure that out. So I'm pointing at you,
but we're going to follow up because I would I
would love to know how do we tapp in as

(58:34):
I'm always pulling my own kids who are twenty one
and twenty two. You know, what's happening on campus? What
do we need to be focused on? What are you
most worried about? And it's the fundamentals too for twenty
two year olds, it's what's my next job going to be? Well?
How am I going to make How am I going
to find an affordable place to live? How am I
going to participate and be able to be successful in

(58:56):
the economy? What the heck's going on with climate change?
And what are you people going to do because it's
still getting worse and we're afraid. So I think that
there's a lot there to learn, but I think you've
got to help us answer the question. So keep asking it,
but then tell me what the answer is. Well, here
is a great last question.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
As many people feel that the federal government is no
longer representing them, how can states and state governments respond?

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Well, Hey, I mean you're saying you're seeing lawsuits getting filed,
You're seeing state governors and legislatures taking action. We're working
really hard to be creative and nimble because there are
so many things that are happening right now. But we're
going to continue to do that. We saw it during
the pandemic. It was the governors who gave people the

(59:49):
information they needed to be safe and worked so hard
to help empower people, and that'll continue to be true.
I'm very fortunate that I've got an Attorney General who
is doing great work on our behalf. I've got a
cabinet that is continually assessing what we can do at

(01:00:10):
the state level, that lives up to our values and
continues to deliver. And it means also using the platform
that I have whenever it's important to take it on.
Like I said, you know, I got to run a state.
I've got to also make sure that we we're delivering
for people and able to make my case to the

(01:00:32):
federal government, but also stand my ground when it matters.
And that's what we're going to do today, tomorrow, and
over the course of the next four years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Maybe last night and last night too for protection. Governor
Whitmer is still working hard for the people of Michigan.
To stay up to date on everything she is doing
and if she'll make a big announcement one day, follow
her at ge Whitmer and be sure to read True
and True Gretch Young Adult edition. Get it wherever you

(01:01:03):
get your books, and follow along on Instagram at True
Gretch Whitmer. Thank you again to six and I for
hosting this live she Pivots episode. You can follow them
on Instagram at six and I to say up to
date on future programming. It's always incredible. Thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. I

(01:01:24):
hope you enjoyed it and if you did, leave us
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(01:01:47):
the she pivots team, Executive producer Emily Etafelosic, Associate producer
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