September 10, 2025 • 40 mins
Latham Thomas is changing the way the world thinks about birth, wellness, and motherhood. As the founder of Mama Glow, she’s helped families, including celebrities like Alicia Keys, Anne Hathaway, and Gabrielle Union navigate the journey to parenthood with knowledge, support, and joy. On this episode of She Pivots, Latham opens up about the birth of her son and the gaps in care that inspired her mission.
Drawing on lessons from her mother and her own experiences, Latham built Mama Glow to empower families, train doulas, and advocate for Black maternal health. Today, she’s a leading voice in a global movement redefining maternal care with equity, dignity, and purpose.
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She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Latham, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Latham Thomas (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Latham Thomas.
Emily Tisch Sussman (00:13):
Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today
(00:34):
I'm delighted to welcome Latham Thomas Do she Pivots. She
is the visionary founder of Mama Glow, a global maternal
health brand that is redefining the way we think about birth,
wellness and the power of motherhood. But before she became
known as the Birth Visionary, Latham's life looked very different.
When she gave birth to her son. Everything changed. In
(00:58):
her words, twenty minutes after he was born, I knew
I had to protect this process. That moment sparked her pivot.
She realized there was a profound lack of cohesive information
and support for birthing people. If she was feeling that gap,
she wondered, what were women everywhere else experiencing. And while
(01:19):
that moment in the hospital was the catalyst, the seeds
of Mama Glow had been planted much earlier. Latham grew
up with the mother who emphasized bodily autonomy and self knowledge,
and she often dreamed about what motherhood would one day
mean in her own life. Those influences, combined with her
personal awakening following her son's birth, led her to build
(01:40):
something bigger than herself, an organization designed to empower, educate,
and support birthing people in reclaiming joy and power through
the process of becoming parents. Through Mamma Glow, Latham has
trained hundreds of dulas, supported countless families, and sparked an
important conversation about maternal health, particularly for Black women in America,
(02:02):
who continue to face alarming disparities and care. She's also
the author of Own Your Glow, a book that blends
self care, spiritual growth, and women's empowerment. Today, on she Pivots,
you'll hear how lath Them turned the most personal moment
of her life into a global movement. Let's jump right in.
Latham Thomas (02:26):
My name is Latham Thomas, and I'm the founder of
the global maternal health and education platform Mama Glow.
Emily Tisch Sussman (02:32):
So we're going to go all the way back to childhood.
Tell us about your family, tell us about you as
a young kid, Like what did you want to be when you grew up.
Latham Thomas (02:41):
Well, if we take it all the way back, I
think I would start around age four. I grew up
with a single mom, and when my mom was pregnant
with my sister, I was four years old, and that
was kind of a pivotal time because not only was
she pregnant, my aunt and my great aunt were also
(03:01):
pregnant at the same time, so do within a month
of each other, March, April and May. And I was
going to be a big sister. And it was exciting.
And I think when you're a toddler and you see
the world through this lens of fascination, a baby coming
into the world is quite exciting. And so I had
(03:22):
all the feels. I was really excited to be a
big sister. And my mom really prepared me. And what
I really will credit her with is, you know, beyond
things like pushing us educationally and being kind of a
sort of a no nonsense. I mean, for many people we grew up in
These households whereas like grades, you know, do well in school,
(03:42):
and you know, and your performance really matters. But foundationally
that came from this desire for me to understand the
world around me, and so how she did that was
through my interests and so I seemed very interested in
the human body and what was happening through her pregnancy.
(04:02):
So my mom gave me gray's anatomy coloring books. I
learned the anatomical parts by name. And this is really
something that people think, well, kids are too young to
learn these things. Every young person that I have met,
every like little baby under age like five six, they
have something that they're obsessed by and they're really good at.
(04:24):
Like I have, like doula babies that are like you know,
can do the periodic table of elements and like recite
it and I'm like, I don't even remember the periodic people elements, right, So.
Every kid has this capacity, right, and so it's really
an important time to like nurture that and lean in
the direction of their desire, but also what's exciting them
for learning, and so that's what my mom did. So
(04:47):
it was all about really, you know, the natural sciences.
It was about exploring the human body through a lens
also of autonomy and a lens of body literacy. And
so she taught me many things, but mainly the big
thing for her was also like using the right words
to describe our parts. And I think that that was
(05:09):
foundationally important because it also helped me, as an older
person and a grown version of myself, come to know
my body in a way that was empowering. And so
and I think in the climate that we currently live,
it is important not only to be able to name
our parts, but understand how our bodies function, but also
understand what we're fighting for, right And so as a child,
(05:33):
those seeds were planted, and so that was really for
me kind of like the foundation was like having this
mom who was really like, you know, educationally focused and
who leaned into like my sensibilities. And then fast forward
she had my sister. I was really obsessed, you know,
with the newborn, but also with the process. And my
(05:53):
mom reminds me all the time that, you know, she said,
we were in the store and someone's like, oh, your
mother has a baby in her tongue. Me, I said, no,
my mother has a baby in her uterus and it's
going to come out of her vagina. And so I
was really really ready, you know, for the world in
this sense. So yeah, I would say like my childhood
and my upbringing was really about that knowledge sharing and
(06:15):
having someone who believed that like I was old enough
right to handle this information, and I really now to
this day, I encounter so many people in my role,
you know, at Mama Glow as an educator and also
as a doula to so many people I encounter haven't
had this education foundationally, and so a lot of what
(06:36):
we're doing is helping people to remember and recall this information,
helping to plant seeds of advocacy but also of empowerment
through our bodies and teach body literacy later in life,
which is fine, but I do think that it's an
incredible thing to learn as early as I did.
Emily Tisch Sussman (06:54):
You've mentioned that she taught a really natural perspective, like
a very natural holistic mind. I don't know how to
put it exactly, sort of like a natural holistic I
guess mindset for raising you and your sister. Did that
come from your mom? Or was that driven by you?
Who really framed that for you and your upbringing?
Latham Thomas (07:15):
I mean, I think my mom was really intense. She's
still here. We connect in different ways now, you know,
But I think that my upbringing and my experience of
her parenting was that sometimes it was too much right,
so I needed I believe and children can always kind
(07:40):
of assess later in life sometimes right, like oh I
needed more space, right, or I needed more containment or
whatever it is. And so for me, I feel like
there was a lot of learning that was happening by example.
And also there was a lot of strict guydence that
(08:00):
could not be like you had to adhere to it, right.
There was like not choice. And so I grew up
in a house where even though there was like a
lot of flow and you know, listening to the body
and your natural rhythms, and everybody was naked, and you know,
it was like, you know, we come home, we threw
off our clothes, like we were never wearing clothes, and so,
you know, that kind of upbringing was awesome. But then
(08:23):
also there was like a lot of pressure right in
terms of expectation and performance and perfection. That also created
a neurosis that I still have, right, And so I
think that you don't realize that until you have a
(08:43):
longer time horizon to look at, right, when you think
about how much time you've lived. And I'm forty five
years alive, and so if I look at this time horizon,
I think back, right, I can go back twenty thirty
forty years and I'm like, oh, this is where this started. Right.
So I thank my mom for a lot of the
(09:05):
lessons and stuff, But there's a lot of things that
I still work through that were challenging. But I would
say the nurturing that I needed that maybe wasn't naturally
coming from the parenting I learned in the world around me, right,
And so I found it in nature. I found it
in my study of plants and plant systems. I found it in building community.
(09:30):
I found it with other family members in the spaces
that we shared together because we were sort of brought
up in a broader community, which was really great, but
it definitely wasn't like a singular experience. It was definitely like,
you know, my grandmother and like my grandpa and my
aunts and cousins, like a lot of that sort of
childhood was colored by having those people there too, and
(09:53):
their influence, like my grandmother's influence, who she was my
favorite person really and she's passed on. But everything I
wanted to do when I was little, she was just entertained,
you know. Like I remember I was picking things out
of the garden and I was like, Okay, we're going
to make a soup.Granny, like, I really want to make a soup.
And so I remember I picked these vegetables and I
(10:15):
carried them with me in this like little bucket the
whole day, and I went all over and I was like,
I got to get my vegetables and they were covered
in dirt, and I remember I just brought them into
the kitchen. I was like, okay, Granny, we have to
make soup. And so she was like okay. And then
so she cooked everything for me, and she took all
the veggies that I made that I brought and she
(10:36):
made them into soup and then I ate the soup,
and I was so proud of myself. And so she
also was one of those people who I felt like
really just entertained our, you know, our whims as children.
She also, you know, my grandmother also gave us like coffee when we were kids, and so so we were drinking coffee and eating pound cake and stuff and like running around and I don't drink coffee today, but as a child. I'm like, why was I drinking coffee at like nine.
(11:07):
So there was just this interesting experience of just like
the joy and celebration and just sort of living into
the culture that I was born into and having these
matrilineal figures, you know, who were so powerful.
But also that I really learned through example, like so
many things were not spoken, but like we're experienced, right,
(11:31):
And so there's a lot of things like even preparation
of food where you wouldn't get a recipe, you would
just have to be in the kitchen. And if you
didn't sit in the kitchen, you wouldn't learn. And so
we learned at an early age to sit at the
feet of our elders while they were doing things, and
that we didn't get to actually pick up a spoon or a knife or whatever. We had to watch.
(11:58):
And so so much of it was why watching and learning,
and that I think primed me for the work I
do today with patients, like being able to watch and observe,
Like that skill also is really applicable in like doula work,
right when you have to watch and really just observe
someone undergoing this magical process that's unfolding that is not
(12:22):
about you, right, And so you decenter yourself in these
spaces of community where you're invited to learn. And so
a lot of these kind of lessons and stuff are
things that I pull from professionally, but we're just sort
of part of the natural rhythms of how we were raised.
Emily Tisch Sussman (12:39):
It's so funny you came back to this point because
I made a mental note to ask you to follow
up on it that you said that a lot of
things you learned from your mother by observing. Were you
thinking specifically of the cooking or was it more the
way she moved through the world or how she worked.
Latham Thomas (12:56):
It was that both of those things. It was the
way that she moved the world. I learned a lot and.
Also how she worked as well. She was a project manager.
She's really good at being a boss, a leader. She's
a really tough boss. So I think it's not like
I don't think there's people that can actually work for her,
but she is really good at leadership, organization, problem solving, right,
(13:21):
And I watched a lot of how she did that.
But also I watched, you know, how she took care
of herself. So she would do massages on Wednesdays, and
so there was a girl who would come over, she
would bring the table. My mom would essentially go to
bed almost like she would She would have it be
after work that the massage would take place, then she
(13:44):
would go to bed, and so me and my sister
had to take care of ourselves. So we would I
would cook dinner for us, we would look after ourselves
with an After the massage, we would have dinner with
the massage therapist and then she would teach us skills
and so we learned things as well. So I learned
really amazing skills that I could use on myself or
(14:04):
in my personal life or just know and understand what
good touch is, right. And so I think part of that,
you know, therapeutic touch was learned, but also something I
could harness. And so that was through this broader community
of you know, people who were also part of my
mom's self care network. So she had that and I
(14:27):
learned from that. And then one of the first things
she got me when I was an adult was a
massage table. Even though I was like, Mom, I can't
afford to actually have somebody come, but thank you, you know,
and so, but it was nice to have her think
that this is a way for me to take care
of myself. I also saw that, you know, she and
my grandmother had these beauty routines like before bed, and
(14:48):
I you know, if I spent then at my grandmother's
house just watching her, like brush her hair and then
annoyed her skin and all the things that she would
do to kind of take care of herself. When she
passed away, she'd like, no ringk. You know, I'm not
saying that in a way like that there's an issue
with them or not, but just like the way that
her skin was so preserved that you would have thought
(15:11):
she was like years younger, but it was because part
of it was her maintenance, her self maintenance, right, And
I learned through watching her. I learned a lot about
self maintenance. And because a lot of I guess how
we were brought up, it's like everything was out in
the open. My mom told me this once, and I've
seen this actually with babies. She told me once that
(15:35):
she was in the bathroom and I had a diaper
on and I was like bending over like I was
in half, and I had a tam fon. I was
like trying to put it through my diaper, and I
was like, that is so funny. But then I've seen
other babies do that, right, So it's like you're just
gonna kind of your dramatic play or the things that
you mimic and learn are going to be sort of
what you're observing. And so, yeah, a lot of it
(15:56):
was just observation and not separating children from adult space.
And I think that that's really important for them to
learn socialization, for them to learn about their culture, for
them to understand the language, for them to understand cultural
food stuffs, and also practices that we utilize as community
(16:16):
to be well. And so whether that's like how we
cook and prepare food, or how we move our bodies
through dance, or you know, maybe like community things we
do like games or other ways that we gather for meals,
et cetera. All those things teach us something about culture
and where we sit inside of it, right, and what
it means to be what it means to be long right,
(16:38):
And so I think a lot of yeah, a lot
of it was observance. And so for my mom, it
was seeing her be in the world in a certain
way that I knew that it was possible to kind of be a leader.
I didn't know that I would be a leader or
that I wasn't like a desire, but I did sort
(16:58):
of show up in spaces, you know, academically where I've
you know, kind of ended up in you know, positions
where I was like a leader or part of a
I don't know whether it be like a athletic thing,
you know, whatever it was, there were some opportunities where
I was called to be a bigger version of myself.
I was shy though, Like I was really shy. I
(17:20):
did not like the idea of public speaking. I would
rather like die at the time, right, And I grew
into being a capable of that over time in my
adult life. Right.
But it was really modeled, for sure by the power
that my mom sort of showed up in the world with.
I think, like this kind of sorceress, you know, magical power,
(17:43):
this energy also of like I would see her stand
up to men, you know, and be in spaces that
were male dominated, like she was in real estate I member,
and it was in our community, was like only men
doing what she was doing. And so I watched her
kind of in spaces where she was also outnumbered, outpowered,
(18:04):
and it seemed that sometimes it wasn't safe, and so
I was nervous for her sometimes because I'm like, is
she okay? You know, But she took care of herself.
But I did learn that she didn't let anything really
stop her, right, So I kind of saw that growing up.
Emily Tisch Sussman (18:25):
When we come back, we dive into Latham becoming a
mother and how that moment changed her forever. You became
(18:46):
pregnant with your son soon after graduating from Columbia with
a degree in visual arts and environmental science. So what
did you think you wanted to do with your career
at that point, Like, did it changed your vision of
what your career would be change when you got pregnant.
Latham Thomas (19:00):
I love that you did research.
Yeah, so my son just recently graduated from college himself,
which has been so wonderful to have this full circle
moment of now I have an adult, right?
So I was in a relationship and had a great
(19:20):
I mean, we were both young, so it was something
that I would always say was unplanned, but not unwanted.
You know that the timing was what it was, and
if I were to do it again, I would still
do it the same. But if I had at the
time a choice, I probably would have not had it
(19:42):
be right after school. But I just I'm thankful.
Because I really feel like it helped me grow into
an adult. Like my son coming here also organized me
and reorganized every cell in my body but also reorganized
me into being an adult. And so, yeah, I was
with his father. We're really close friends now. I think
(20:06):
at the time as children, we were just you know,
it was like being with a stranger that was figuring out.
We were literally strangers really, I mean, we knew each other,
but not well enough to decide to embark on this
journey together. And we talk about it all the time,
like we basically didn't know each other really and we
just said, yeah, let's do this. And I'm like, yeah,
(20:27):
that was wild, but only young people do things like that, right,
And our parents had things to say, but we went
forth because we knew something inside. We knew that there
was something about us coming together that was important, and
we knew that this child was supposed to be here,
like he chose to come through us, and we just
(20:48):
sort of were in a posture of acceptance of that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (20:54):
Latham called on her roots and what she learned from
her mother and leaned into this personal moment, letting it
guide her. After the break, we dive into how this deeply personal time in her life led her to her biggest pivot and the creation of Mamma Glow. Stay Tuned.
Latham Thomas (21:26):
And so career wise, I hadn't even oriented around what
I would do. I knew that I would start. Well,
I guess I should say this. I was working as
a contractor right like doing the work teaching, and so
I used sort of like my arts background with my
science background to merge curriculum development, which I did for
(21:50):
the Brooklyn Center for the Urban Environment and the audubonn
Center at the time. And I worked for the City
of New York to kind of bring the outdoors indoors
for students that were in public schools. But where it
shifted for me was when I became pregnant with Filano
and I felt this, this sort of surface was surfacing
(22:14):
for me. Was this knowing and this calling to step
into another area of learning but also of leadership and
a career path that I didn't know existed for me.
And it was a calling back to my childhood and
the times where I was stuffing cabbage patch dolls under
(22:38):
my shirt and me and my cousin were pretending to
deliver each other's babies. It was a calling back to,
you know, my first moment, to seeing my sister, you know,
upon arrival. It was also this kind of awakening that
I was feeling as I was, you know, cultivating new
life that was growing within me, and I knew that
(23:02):
I had to do something differently, and coming from a
background of problem solving and like looking at a mom
who was like that was what she did was problem
solving and project management, right, So I was keen on
finding a solution to what I was seeing as a
lack of cohesive information. In the landscape of birthing.
(23:25):
But once I started to kind of get more be
called back into the birth of it all, into the
life sciences that was on the sort of reproductive health
side of things. That's where everything started to stir and
also come together for me, right, And it was really
the rudiments. It was really the building blocks and also
the you know, me thinking it all through and like
(23:49):
planning and developing like a roadmap for what could be
a company later, right, because it couldn't happen in the beginning.
And when Falaen was very small, it was like really
me just kind of mapping out and I'm really. Like visual, so I'd have like little float charts.
And notes and you know, journaling, and I'd write everything
out and that's how I was doing it, and then
(24:09):
I started with everything being really small. I just started,
you know, like little groups that would meet in my
living room, and then from there like kind of people
like oh, recommending me, and I did this doula fellowship,
and like all these things kind of happened to kind
of create like a little what do you call like
a foundation a foundation, and that was helpful right for
me to kind of then expand this work. But certainly
(24:33):
I did not know coming out of school. I had
no idea what I was going to do. I definitely,
if I could look back, I absolutely did not have
this as a career trajectory on my Bengo card, I
would have. It makes sense to me because I think about, like,
you know, the constellation of these breadcrumbs in my life.
(24:55):
It makes sense, but I wouldn't have understood it. If
I go back to myself being a child, I wouldn't
have seen this, right, So that's really what it is.
And I think the other thing too is, you know,
raising a child very similarly to when you decide to
launch a business, there is a lot of fear, a
(25:16):
lot of anxiety around whether or not you can do it,
or if you can do it well, you have to
build up courage and faith and you actually have to
keep going. And so when you have a child, you
know that right you can't like it's like you don't
get to stop. You know, you can't cut anything off.
It's like they're there and they depend on you. And
(25:38):
for a business, it's quite similar in that you're nurturing
and cultivating and incubating something that you then deliver unto
the world. And eventually, you know, there's times where you feel,
oh my gosh, like I can't today, you know, or
I'm like exhausted or I'm over this or whatever it
might be, and you can't away. And the people who
(26:01):
are successfully keep going. And so that's what I did.
I did a lot of research, I met different practitioners,
I explore products and services, and the kind of what
I came up with become the Rudiments of Mama Glow,
which is my first book in twenty twelve that came out.
But also it would kind of help flesh what I
(26:22):
understood to be the real needs for people who were
like me. And so I built this kind of holistic
framework around this birthing process that I desired and that
I hoped to be able to facilitate for others. And that would become Mama Glow.
Hi, I'm Latham Thomas, founder of Mama Glow, and today
(26:42):
we're going to get into our Yoga flow practice.
What those major life events are. We always have someone
who's holding our hand and guiding us, and so birth
is no different.
The doula is there to like do all the emotional stuff.
What's beautiful is that you see people that they're most
vulnerable but also their most powerful.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It does have children. The founder of Mama Go lay them Thomas, shout out to you. You've done something very very special.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Today is a very special day because I am going
to share the mic with an amazing female wellness warrior
whom I admire. She is the founder of Mama Glow. Her handle is at Mama glow.
Emily Tisch Sussman (27:24):
I really want to just focus in on this point
that you've made about whatever success looks like to you,
like however you are winning because it can mean so
many different things to different people, and it can mean
different things at different points in your life. When people here,
especially when they think about starting a business, for it
to be successful, they think, oh, scale, right, like profitable,
(27:45):
big scale, But maybe that's not what success means to you.
You could be in a situation where you say, well,
actually I don't want scale because I get when I run a business,
Now I'm a business person, and so now I'm running
a business, and it takes you out of the individual work,
you know. I talk to a lot of women who
are going in and out of different careers and thinking
about pivoting, and this piece about what scale means and
(28:08):
what winning means to them goes back and forth all
the time, Like, if you're small, you want to be big.
If you're big, you want to be more connected to
the work. And it really just depends on I feel
like where you are in your life.
Latham Thomas (28:20):
That's, first of all, so true, and thank you for bringing this in.
I think that a lot of our orientation around success
has been driven by male standards, and particularly those of
male work patterns. Right, And so if we think about
like the ways in which we've had to navigate professional space,
(28:42):
all the spaces that we enter into have been created
for and by men, and so also the metrics have
been as well. So metrics for success are also based
on how men can perform in these environments that are
designed to weave people out and deplete people, and the
people who can get through this gauntlet right in corporate
(29:04):
life succeed. And so women who are in these positions
are isolated, but also have sacrificed a lot and are
like almost sometimes shells of themselves because of what they've
had to supplicate to like actually and give up to
be in those positions. Right. And so when we're talking about like also.
You know, our work and you know, being entrepreneurs and
(29:27):
leaders and business and so forth, there is a conversation
to be had always about what what am I giving over,
what am I giving up? And what am I sort
of expanding or receiving like in this process or this
transaction or whatever it's going to look like. Because I
(29:48):
think it's really important to understand also that there's ways
that you can scale that are sustainable and that the
models that currently exist are not real. And so when
people a cash infusion into a business for the purposes
of displacing the market, funneling in like a product or
(30:10):
service at a very low rate so that people start
to now like it or use it whatever, then to
you know, raise the prices later and then to have
to like you know, change the actual core right of
like your offerings or whatever it might be to accommodate investors. This is not real.
This is not real.
This is not actually This is like a pretend scenario
(30:33):
that's inside a petri dish right, and the performance is
based on your ability within that sort of mechanism to
outperform competitors through sales. But like, it's not real. And
so it's like, if you don't have any revenues, you
(30:55):
don't have a business. Like so I think that, you know,
the idea of I'm going to take money and then
answer to people and then be under the pressure of
having to perform and do things that are like not
aligned with my values. It's something people have to really
think about because that's what you're doing. When you take money,
it costs you. It's not just expensive in terms of
(31:19):
what you have to give up. It's expensive for what
you have to give over, right and because giving up
is you know, more like, okay, some of my power
as it relates to the business, giving over is part
of who you are. I have to give over parts
of who I am to like steal be inside this business.
And then you see so many people leave right once
(31:39):
they do it, and they're like, I can't do this.
I can't answer to people I can't answer to like
a you know, a Stanford MBA that's like twenty years
old that's going to come run my business and knows
nothing about what I do.
That is what the model is. It's disruptive, but it's
also it's like it's not real. And so I don't
mean that people shouldn't take money. I do think people
(32:00):
should do what works for them. But the best time
to take it is when you don't need it. The
best time is like when you're really in a good
position where it's expensive for them and it's not for you,
and you're in a very powerful position to determine how
you're going to use that money and also what it
means and how much you'll take because you don't have
to take a lot. Sometimes it's just like you might
(32:21):
need a little bit of cash to get something done
that might be alone, it might be better, right, There's
all kinds of ways to think through how to do it.
And I believe in designing a business that if I mean,
we've never taken money, right, so for us, it's like
designing a business that can actually exist in space through
our contracts and partnerships and things that we develop that
(32:43):
allows us to take care of our staff right, and
so you know, these are things we have to think about. Right.
I could have data Solopreneur Dulah that would have been fine,
but instead we developed a program and trained over three
thousand doulahs globally so they can go do the work right.
And now we're in Brown University where I teach students there.
And now we're you know, in CBS Health at now
(33:05):
where we teach nurses there, and you know, we do
all kinds of program development because I see that as
at the core of what I'm supposed to be doing
right is knowledge sharing and bridging healthcare gaps with what
we know to be the future leading you know, in
this space. And I can't do it as an individual
(33:27):
if I'm attending births and like impacting one person or
their community, I can do it from this space, right,
and it can be from an institutional level. And so
for me, that's what's important now. At one point, it
was really important to be one on one right, and
then another call came, which was beyond serve. Like the
(33:48):
first call was like to me via service as a doula, right.
The second one was for me to teach, and I
answered that call, and the third one was for me
to lead, and that was really about, like, you know,
thinking about how we change systems. And so I believe
that the most important thing to do is listen for
the call, but also know that it changes, like that
(34:09):
your journey, even if your path and the commitment that
you have and the work that you do at its
core maybe not change, but the actual delivery of like
what you're supposed to be doing, how you're showing up
the workflow might change. That it has changed for me,
like it's changed from being hands on with like a
(34:30):
family or couple, to then in the classroom to then
in you know, institutional settings making decisions and hopefully benefiting
our broader community you know of women and birthing individuals.
Emily Tisch Sussman (34:42):
Is there something it could be something we talked about
or something different that something that at one point you
saw as a real low point for you, but now
you see as having really launched you into the success
you are today.
Latham Thomas (34:54):
I mean, I would say there's always highs and lows
right in this journey, and it is very isolating doing
work as an entrepreneur, as a parent.
At the same time, I wouldn't say that there was a particular low point, but
what I would say is that what I could say
(35:15):
is that there's like ebbs right and flows where some
days you're like, oh, everything's really great, and then some
days where you're you know not. What I would say
that is important and that is sustaining is like really
celebrating your wins and they don't have to be some crazy,
like over the top like you know, but just little
(35:39):
things like tiny victories. I think help us so that
when we are having those low moments where we do
feel like maybe we're undersupported or we're just struggling, we're
reminded of our greatness and also of the impact of
the work. And one of the ways that I have
done that is like through a little group of friends,
(35:59):
right that we just kind of connect with each other
and when something happens that's cool that we may not
necessarily announce to the world. We share there and it's
like the biggest cheerleading squad. Like the way that these
women celebrate and just love on each other is so
fueling and especially for me who comes from a background
(36:24):
in a childhood where like you weren't praised for succeeding.
It was expected, but there was no praise. And so
I come into adulthood not celebrating things that are really
important to celebrate. And so I'm now embracing that. And
so I would say instead of like in a sense,
like you know, you could have these moments that are
(36:45):
really high and not even realize are happening because you're
so focused On the next thing.
And that happens a lot here, Like, you know, we're
so busy sometimes that like I'm like, this thing happened,
it was amazing. Okay, on to the next, you know,
And so people, even staff, doesn't get an opportunity to
like really live into the success and of the things
(37:06):
because we're moving so fast. But I definitely would say
that that's how I kind of handle the joys and
it's also how I handle the hardship. And so that
same kind of group text area is like if I'm
having a rough day or something just is coming up
and I'm like struggling with I go into that and
I want to share that. You know, for a lot
(37:27):
of us, we think that, oh, I don't want to
burden my friends or I don't want and I talk
to people all the time about this, and I'm like,
you know, we're actually primed, like literally primed to connect
in this way. We're prime to seek supportive networks, especially
when we're in times of discomfort or stress. Like we
(37:48):
literally have built in our biology this desire to connect
with people who will support us through the most challenging times.
And so I want to bring that to this conversation
because I think it's so important to develop that connection
to people and to have that village so that when
these hardships come, as you're building something, you have somewhere
(38:11):
to pour Into and people who can pour into you. Because it's so needed.
And I know that the times we're living in now
require community coalition building. It requires us to show up
so much differently than we did before for our survival.
And for those of us who are committed to building
business and who are making shifts and pivots and like
(38:33):
how you're expressing yourselves and like what your businesses I
look like, and even if you're just at a different
life stage, because a lot of us are moving through
things happening in our actual lives that then impact the
business trajectory. You need a container of safety for that,
and I think therapy is a great container, but friendship
is so important and having that space and so that's
(38:55):
how I kind of get through when I have those moments.
But I would definitely say those moments happen. It's not
just like there's one. It's like you have these waves
and there's hardship when you're building something like things come
up and you just have to have the fortitude but
also those resources to kind of get yourself through.
Emily Tisch Sussman (39:14):
Thank you so much, Latham, Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me. Appreciate you.
Latham is continuing to grow Mama Glow and has personally
worked with the likes of Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, and
Gabrielle Union. To stay up to date with Latham, be
sure to follow her on Instagram at Glow Maven.
(39:36):
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. I
hope you enjoyed it and if you did, leave us
a rating and tell your friends about us. To learn
more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she
Pivots the podcast, or sign up for our newsletter where
you can get exclusive behind the scenes content. On our
website at she Pivots the podcast dot com. This episode
(40:02):
was produced and edited by Emily Etta Volosek, with sound
editing and mixing from Nina Pollock. Audio production and social
media by Hannah Cousins, research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics
and planning by Emma Stopek and Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots
is proud to be a part of the iHeart podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
I endorse she pivots
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Latham Thomas.
Emily Tisch Sussman (00:13):
Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today
(00:34):
I'm delighted to welcome Latham Thomas Do she Pivots. She
is the visionary founder of Mama Glow, a global maternal
health brand that is redefining the way we think about birth,
wellness and the power of motherhood. But before she became
known as the Birth Visionary, Latham's life looked very different.
When she gave birth to her son. Everything changed. In
(00:58):
her words, twenty minutes after he was born, I knew
I had to protect this process. That moment sparked her pivot.
She realized there was a profound lack of cohesive information
and support for birthing people. If she was feeling that gap,
she wondered, what were women everywhere else experiencing. And while
(01:19):
that moment in the hospital was the catalyst, the seeds
of Mama Glow had been planted much earlier. Latham grew
up with the mother who emphasized bodily autonomy and self knowledge,
and she often dreamed about what motherhood would one day
mean in her own life. Those influences, combined with her
personal awakening following her son's birth, led her to build
(01:40):
something bigger than herself, an organization designed to empower, educate,
and support birthing people in reclaiming joy and power through
the process of becoming parents. Through Mamma Glow, Latham has
trained hundreds of dulas, supported countless families, and sparked an
important conversation about maternal health, particularly for Black women in America,
(02:02):
who continue to face alarming disparities and care. She's also
the author of Own Your Glow, a book that blends
self care, spiritual growth, and women's empowerment. Today, on she Pivots,
you'll hear how lath Them turned the most personal moment
of her life into a global movement. Let's jump right in.
Latham Thomas (02:26):
My name is Latham Thomas, and I'm the founder of
the global maternal health and education platform Mama Glow.
Emily Tisch Sussman (02:32):
So we're going to go all the way back to childhood.
Tell us about your family, tell us about you as
a young kid, Like what did you want to be when you grew up.
Latham Thomas (02:41):
Well, if we take it all the way back, I
think I would start around age four. I grew up
with a single mom, and when my mom was pregnant
with my sister, I was four years old, and that
was kind of a pivotal time because not only was
she pregnant, my aunt and my great aunt were also
(03:01):
pregnant at the same time, so do within a month
of each other, March, April and May. And I was
going to be a big sister. And it was exciting.
And I think when you're a toddler and you see
the world through this lens of fascination, a baby coming
into the world is quite exciting. And so I had
(03:22):
all the feels. I was really excited to be a
big sister. And my mom really prepared me. And what
I really will credit her with is, you know, beyond
things like pushing us educationally and being kind of a
sort of a no nonsense. I mean, for many people we grew up in
These households whereas like grades, you know, do well in school,
(03:42):
and you know, and your performance really matters. But foundationally
that came from this desire for me to understand the
world around me, and so how she did that was
through my interests and so I seemed very interested in
the human body and what was happening through her pregnancy.
(04:02):
So my mom gave me gray's anatomy coloring books. I
learned the anatomical parts by name. And this is really
something that people think, well, kids are too young to
learn these things. Every young person that I have met,
every like little baby under age like five six, they
have something that they're obsessed by and they're really good at.
(04:24):
Like I have, like doula babies that are like you know,
can do the periodic table of elements and like recite
it and I'm like, I don't even remember the periodic people elements, right, So.
Every kid has this capacity, right, and so it's really
an important time to like nurture that and lean in
the direction of their desire, but also what's exciting them
for learning, and so that's what my mom did. So
(04:47):
it was all about really, you know, the natural sciences.
It was about exploring the human body through a lens
also of autonomy and a lens of body literacy. And
so she taught me many things, but mainly the big
thing for her was also like using the right words
to describe our parts. And I think that that was
(05:09):
foundationally important because it also helped me, as an older
person and a grown version of myself, come to know
my body in a way that was empowering. And so
and I think in the climate that we currently live,
it is important not only to be able to name
our parts, but understand how our bodies function, but also
understand what we're fighting for, right And so as a child,
(05:33):
those seeds were planted, and so that was really for
me kind of like the foundation was like having this
mom who was really like, you know, educationally focused and
who leaned into like my sensibilities. And then fast forward
she had my sister. I was really obsessed, you know,
with the newborn, but also with the process. And my
(05:53):
mom reminds me all the time that, you know, she said,
we were in the store and someone's like, oh, your
mother has a baby in her tongue. Me, I said, no,
my mother has a baby in her uterus and it's
going to come out of her vagina. And so I
was really really ready, you know, for the world in
this sense. So yeah, I would say like my childhood
and my upbringing was really about that knowledge sharing and
(06:15):
having someone who believed that like I was old enough
right to handle this information, and I really now to
this day, I encounter so many people in my role,
you know, at Mama Glow as an educator and also
as a doula to so many people I encounter haven't
had this education foundationally, and so a lot of what
(06:36):
we're doing is helping people to remember and recall this information,
helping to plant seeds of advocacy but also of empowerment
through our bodies and teach body literacy later in life,
which is fine, but I do think that it's an
incredible thing to learn as early as I did.
Emily Tisch Sussman (06:54):
You've mentioned that she taught a really natural perspective, like
a very natural holistic mind. I don't know how to
put it exactly, sort of like a natural holistic I
guess mindset for raising you and your sister. Did that
come from your mom? Or was that driven by you?
Who really framed that for you and your upbringing?
Latham Thomas (07:15):
I mean, I think my mom was really intense. She's
still here. We connect in different ways now, you know,
But I think that my upbringing and my experience of
her parenting was that sometimes it was too much right,
so I needed I believe and children can always kind
(07:40):
of assess later in life sometimes right, like oh I
needed more space, right, or I needed more containment or
whatever it is. And so for me, I feel like
there was a lot of learning that was happening by example.
And also there was a lot of strict guydence that
(08:00):
could not be like you had to adhere to it, right.
There was like not choice. And so I grew up
in a house where even though there was like a
lot of flow and you know, listening to the body
and your natural rhythms, and everybody was naked, and you know,
it was like, you know, we come home, we threw
off our clothes, like we were never wearing clothes, and so,
you know, that kind of upbringing was awesome. But then
(08:23):
also there was like a lot of pressure right in
terms of expectation and performance and perfection. That also created
a neurosis that I still have, right, And so I
think that you don't realize that until you have a
(08:43):
longer time horizon to look at, right, when you think
about how much time you've lived. And I'm forty five
years alive, and so if I look at this time horizon,
I think back, right, I can go back twenty thirty
forty years and I'm like, oh, this is where this started. Right.
So I thank my mom for a lot of the
(09:05):
lessons and stuff, But there's a lot of things that
I still work through that were challenging. But I would
say the nurturing that I needed that maybe wasn't naturally
coming from the parenting I learned in the world around me, right,
And so I found it in nature. I found it
in my study of plants and plant systems. I found it in building community.
(09:30):
I found it with other family members in the spaces
that we shared together because we were sort of brought
up in a broader community, which was really great, but
it definitely wasn't like a singular experience. It was definitely like,
you know, my grandmother and like my grandpa and my
aunts and cousins, like a lot of that sort of
childhood was colored by having those people there too, and
(09:53):
their influence, like my grandmother's influence, who she was my
favorite person really and she's passed on. But everything I
wanted to do when I was little, she was just entertained,
you know. Like I remember I was picking things out
of the garden and I was like, Okay, we're going
to make a soup.Granny, like, I really want to make a soup.
And so I remember I picked these vegetables and I
(10:15):
carried them with me in this like little bucket the
whole day, and I went all over and I was like,
I got to get my vegetables and they were covered
in dirt, and I remember I just brought them into
the kitchen. I was like, okay, Granny, we have to
make soup. And so she was like okay. And then
so she cooked everything for me, and she took all
the veggies that I made that I brought and she
(10:36):
made them into soup and then I ate the soup,
and I was so proud of myself. And so she
also was one of those people who I felt like
really just entertained our, you know, our whims as children.
She also, you know, my grandmother also gave us like coffee when we were kids, and so so we were drinking coffee and eating pound cake and stuff and like running around and I don't drink coffee today, but as a child. I'm like, why was I drinking coffee at like nine.
(11:07):
So there was just this interesting experience of just like
the joy and celebration and just sort of living into
the culture that I was born into and having these
matrilineal figures, you know, who were so powerful.
But also that I really learned through example, like so
many things were not spoken, but like we're experienced, right,
(11:31):
And so there's a lot of things like even preparation
of food where you wouldn't get a recipe, you would
just have to be in the kitchen. And if you
didn't sit in the kitchen, you wouldn't learn. And so
we learned at an early age to sit at the
feet of our elders while they were doing things, and
that we didn't get to actually pick up a spoon or a knife or whatever. We had to watch.
(11:58):
And so so much of it was why watching and learning,
and that I think primed me for the work I
do today with patients, like being able to watch and observe,
Like that skill also is really applicable in like doula work,
right when you have to watch and really just observe
someone undergoing this magical process that's unfolding that is not
(12:22):
about you, right, And so you decenter yourself in these
spaces of community where you're invited to learn. And so
a lot of these kind of lessons and stuff are
things that I pull from professionally, but we're just sort
of part of the natural rhythms of how we were raised.
Emily Tisch Sussman (12:39):
It's so funny you came back to this point because
I made a mental note to ask you to follow
up on it that you said that a lot of
things you learned from your mother by observing. Were you
thinking specifically of the cooking or was it more the
way she moved through the world or how she worked.
Latham Thomas (12:56):
It was that both of those things. It was the
way that she moved the world. I learned a lot and.
Also how she worked as well. She was a project manager.
She's really good at being a boss, a leader. She's
a really tough boss. So I think it's not like
I don't think there's people that can actually work for her,
but she is really good at leadership, organization, problem solving, right,
(13:21):
And I watched a lot of how she did that.
But also I watched, you know, how she took care
of herself. So she would do massages on Wednesdays, and
so there was a girl who would come over, she
would bring the table. My mom would essentially go to
bed almost like she would She would have it be
after work that the massage would take place, then she
(13:44):
would go to bed, and so me and my sister
had to take care of ourselves. So we would I
would cook dinner for us, we would look after ourselves
with an After the massage, we would have dinner with
the massage therapist and then she would teach us skills
and so we learned things as well. So I learned
really amazing skills that I could use on myself or
(14:04):
in my personal life or just know and understand what
good touch is, right. And so I think part of that,
you know, therapeutic touch was learned, but also something I
could harness. And so that was through this broader community
of you know, people who were also part of my
mom's self care network. So she had that and I
(14:27):
learned from that. And then one of the first things
she got me when I was an adult was a
massage table. Even though I was like, Mom, I can't
afford to actually have somebody come, but thank you, you know,
and so, but it was nice to have her think
that this is a way for me to take care
of myself. I also saw that, you know, she and
my grandmother had these beauty routines like before bed, and
(14:48):
I you know, if I spent then at my grandmother's
house just watching her, like brush her hair and then
annoyed her skin and all the things that she would
do to kind of take care of herself. When she
passed away, she'd like, no ringk. You know, I'm not
saying that in a way like that there's an issue
with them or not, but just like the way that
her skin was so preserved that you would have thought
(15:11):
she was like years younger, but it was because part
of it was her maintenance, her self maintenance, right, And
I learned through watching her. I learned a lot about
self maintenance. And because a lot of I guess how
we were brought up, it's like everything was out in
the open. My mom told me this once, and I've
seen this actually with babies. She told me once that
(15:35):
she was in the bathroom and I had a diaper
on and I was like bending over like I was
in half, and I had a tam fon. I was
like trying to put it through my diaper, and I
was like, that is so funny. But then I've seen
other babies do that, right, So it's like you're just
gonna kind of your dramatic play or the things that
you mimic and learn are going to be sort of
what you're observing. And so, yeah, a lot of it
(15:56):
was just observation and not separating children from adult space.
And I think that that's really important for them to
learn socialization, for them to learn about their culture, for
them to understand the language, for them to understand cultural
food stuffs, and also practices that we utilize as community
(16:16):
to be well. And so whether that's like how we
cook and prepare food, or how we move our bodies
through dance, or you know, maybe like community things we
do like games or other ways that we gather for meals,
et cetera. All those things teach us something about culture
and where we sit inside of it, right, and what
it means to be what it means to be long right,
(16:38):
And so I think a lot of yeah, a lot
of it was observance. And so for my mom, it
was seeing her be in the world in a certain
way that I knew that it was possible to kind of be a leader.
I didn't know that I would be a leader or
that I wasn't like a desire, but I did sort
(16:58):
of show up in spaces, you know, academically where I've
you know, kind of ended up in you know, positions
where I was like a leader or part of a
I don't know whether it be like a athletic thing,
you know, whatever it was, there were some opportunities where
I was called to be a bigger version of myself.
I was shy though, Like I was really shy. I
(17:20):
did not like the idea of public speaking. I would
rather like die at the time, right, And I grew
into being a capable of that over time in my
adult life. Right.
But it was really modeled, for sure by the power
that my mom sort of showed up in the world with.
I think, like this kind of sorceress, you know, magical power,
(17:43):
this energy also of like I would see her stand
up to men, you know, and be in spaces that
were male dominated, like she was in real estate I member,
and it was in our community, was like only men
doing what she was doing. And so I watched her
kind of in spaces where she was also outnumbered, outpowered,
(18:04):
and it seemed that sometimes it wasn't safe, and so
I was nervous for her sometimes because I'm like, is
she okay? You know, But she took care of herself.
But I did learn that she didn't let anything really
stop her, right, So I kind of saw that growing up.
Emily Tisch Sussman (18:25):
When we come back, we dive into Latham becoming a
mother and how that moment changed her forever. You became
(18:46):
pregnant with your son soon after graduating from Columbia with
a degree in visual arts and environmental science. So what
did you think you wanted to do with your career
at that point, Like, did it changed your vision of
what your career would be change when you got pregnant.
Latham Thomas (19:00):
I love that you did research.
Yeah, so my son just recently graduated from college himself,
which has been so wonderful to have this full circle
moment of now I have an adult, right?
So I was in a relationship and had a great
(19:20):
I mean, we were both young, so it was something
that I would always say was unplanned, but not unwanted.
You know that the timing was what it was, and
if I were to do it again, I would still
do it the same. But if I had at the
time a choice, I probably would have not had it
(19:42):
be right after school. But I just I'm thankful.
Because I really feel like it helped me grow into
an adult. Like my son coming here also organized me
and reorganized every cell in my body but also reorganized
me into being an adult. And so, yeah, I was
with his father. We're really close friends now. I think
(20:06):
at the time as children, we were just you know,
it was like being with a stranger that was figuring out.
We were literally strangers really, I mean, we knew each other,
but not well enough to decide to embark on this
journey together. And we talk about it all the time,
like we basically didn't know each other really and we
just said, yeah, let's do this. And I'm like, yeah,
(20:27):
that was wild, but only young people do things like that, right,
And our parents had things to say, but we went
forth because we knew something inside. We knew that there
was something about us coming together that was important, and
we knew that this child was supposed to be here,
like he chose to come through us, and we just
(20:48):
sort of were in a posture of acceptance of that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (20:54):
Latham called on her roots and what she learned from
her mother and leaned into this personal moment, letting it
guide her. After the break, we dive into how this deeply personal time in her life led her to her biggest pivot and the creation of Mamma Glow. Stay Tuned.
Latham Thomas (21:26):
And so career wise, I hadn't even oriented around what
I would do. I knew that I would start. Well,
I guess I should say this. I was working as
a contractor right like doing the work teaching, and so
I used sort of like my arts background with my
science background to merge curriculum development, which I did for
(21:50):
the Brooklyn Center for the Urban Environment and the audubonn
Center at the time. And I worked for the City
of New York to kind of bring the outdoors indoors
for students that were in public schools. But where it
shifted for me was when I became pregnant with Filano
and I felt this, this sort of surface was surfacing
(22:14):
for me. Was this knowing and this calling to step
into another area of learning but also of leadership and
a career path that I didn't know existed for me.
And it was a calling back to my childhood and
the times where I was stuffing cabbage patch dolls under
(22:38):
my shirt and me and my cousin were pretending to
deliver each other's babies. It was a calling back to,
you know, my first moment, to seeing my sister, you know,
upon arrival. It was also this kind of awakening that
I was feeling as I was, you know, cultivating new
life that was growing within me, and I knew that
(23:02):
I had to do something differently, and coming from a
background of problem solving and like looking at a mom
who was like that was what she did was problem
solving and project management, right, So I was keen on
finding a solution to what I was seeing as a
lack of cohesive information. In the landscape of birthing.
(23:25):
But once I started to kind of get more be
called back into the birth of it all, into the
life sciences that was on the sort of reproductive health
side of things. That's where everything started to stir and
also come together for me, right, And it was really
the rudiments. It was really the building blocks and also
the you know, me thinking it all through and like
(23:49):
planning and developing like a roadmap for what could be
a company later, right, because it couldn't happen in the beginning.
And when Falaen was very small, it was like really
me just kind of mapping out and I'm really. Like visual, so I'd have like little float charts.
And notes and you know, journaling, and I'd write everything
out and that's how I was doing it, and then
(24:09):
I started with everything being really small. I just started,
you know, like little groups that would meet in my
living room, and then from there like kind of people
like oh, recommending me, and I did this doula fellowship,
and like all these things kind of happened to kind
of create like a little what do you call like
a foundation a foundation, and that was helpful right for
me to kind of then expand this work. But certainly
(24:33):
I did not know coming out of school. I had
no idea what I was going to do. I definitely,
if I could look back, I absolutely did not have
this as a career trajectory on my Bengo card, I
would have. It makes sense to me because I think about, like,
you know, the constellation of these breadcrumbs in my life.
(24:55):
It makes sense, but I wouldn't have understood it. If
I go back to myself being a child, I wouldn't
have seen this, right, So that's really what it is.
And I think the other thing too is, you know,
raising a child very similarly to when you decide to
launch a business, there is a lot of fear, a
(25:16):
lot of anxiety around whether or not you can do it,
or if you can do it well, you have to
build up courage and faith and you actually have to
keep going. And so when you have a child, you
know that right you can't like it's like you don't
get to stop. You know, you can't cut anything off.
It's like they're there and they depend on you. And
(25:38):
for a business, it's quite similar in that you're nurturing
and cultivating and incubating something that you then deliver unto
the world. And eventually, you know, there's times where you feel,
oh my gosh, like I can't today, you know, or
I'm like exhausted or I'm over this or whatever it
might be, and you can't away. And the people who
(26:01):
are successfully keep going. And so that's what I did.
I did a lot of research, I met different practitioners,
I explore products and services, and the kind of what
I came up with become the Rudiments of Mama Glow,
which is my first book in twenty twelve that came out.
But also it would kind of help flesh what I
(26:22):
understood to be the real needs for people who were
like me. And so I built this kind of holistic
framework around this birthing process that I desired and that
I hoped to be able to facilitate for others. And that would become Mama Glow.
Hi, I'm Latham Thomas, founder of Mama Glow, and today
(26:42):
we're going to get into our Yoga flow practice.
What those major life events are. We always have someone
who's holding our hand and guiding us, and so birth
is no different.
The doula is there to like do all the emotional stuff.
What's beautiful is that you see people that they're most
vulnerable but also their most powerful.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It does have children. The founder of Mama Go lay them Thomas, shout out to you. You've done something very very special.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Today is a very special day because I am going
to share the mic with an amazing female wellness warrior
whom I admire. She is the founder of Mama Glow. Her handle is at Mama glow.
Emily Tisch Sussman (27:24):
I really want to just focus in on this point
that you've made about whatever success looks like to you,
like however you are winning because it can mean so
many different things to different people, and it can mean
different things at different points in your life. When people here,
especially when they think about starting a business, for it
to be successful, they think, oh, scale, right, like profitable,
(27:45):
big scale, But maybe that's not what success means to you.
You could be in a situation where you say, well,
actually I don't want scale because I get when I run a business,
Now I'm a business person, and so now I'm running
a business, and it takes you out of the individual work,
you know. I talk to a lot of women who
are going in and out of different careers and thinking
about pivoting, and this piece about what scale means and
(28:08):
what winning means to them goes back and forth all
the time, Like, if you're small, you want to be big.
If you're big, you want to be more connected to
the work. And it really just depends on I feel
like where you are in your life.
Latham Thomas (28:20):
That's, first of all, so true, and thank you for bringing this in.
I think that a lot of our orientation around success
has been driven by male standards, and particularly those of
male work patterns. Right, And so if we think about
like the ways in which we've had to navigate professional space,
(28:42):
all the spaces that we enter into have been created
for and by men, and so also the metrics have
been as well. So metrics for success are also based
on how men can perform in these environments that are
designed to weave people out and deplete people, and the
people who can get through this gauntlet right in corporate
(29:04):
life succeed. And so women who are in these positions
are isolated, but also have sacrificed a lot and are
like almost sometimes shells of themselves because of what they've
had to supplicate to like actually and give up to
be in those positions. Right. And so when we're talking about like also.
You know, our work and you know, being entrepreneurs and
(29:27):
leaders and business and so forth, there is a conversation
to be had always about what what am I giving over,
what am I giving up? And what am I sort
of expanding or receiving like in this process or this
transaction or whatever it's going to look like. Because I
(29:48):
think it's really important to understand also that there's ways
that you can scale that are sustainable and that the
models that currently exist are not real. And so when
people a cash infusion into a business for the purposes
of displacing the market, funneling in like a product or
(30:10):
service at a very low rate so that people start
to now like it or use it whatever, then to
you know, raise the prices later and then to have
to like you know, change the actual core right of
like your offerings or whatever it might be to accommodate investors. This is not real.
This is not real.
This is not actually This is like a pretend scenario
(30:33):
that's inside a petri dish right, and the performance is
based on your ability within that sort of mechanism to
outperform competitors through sales. But like, it's not real. And
so it's like, if you don't have any revenues, you
(30:55):
don't have a business. Like so I think that, you know,
the idea of I'm going to take money and then
answer to people and then be under the pressure of
having to perform and do things that are like not
aligned with my values. It's something people have to really
think about because that's what you're doing. When you take money,
it costs you. It's not just expensive in terms of
(31:19):
what you have to give up. It's expensive for what
you have to give over, right and because giving up
is you know, more like, okay, some of my power
as it relates to the business, giving over is part
of who you are. I have to give over parts
of who I am to like steal be inside this business.
And then you see so many people leave right once
(31:39):
they do it, and they're like, I can't do this.
I can't answer to people I can't answer to like
a you know, a Stanford MBA that's like twenty years
old that's going to come run my business and knows
nothing about what I do.
That is what the model is. It's disruptive, but it's
also it's like it's not real. And so I don't
mean that people shouldn't take money. I do think people
(32:00):
should do what works for them. But the best time
to take it is when you don't need it. The
best time is like when you're really in a good
position where it's expensive for them and it's not for you,
and you're in a very powerful position to determine how
you're going to use that money and also what it
means and how much you'll take because you don't have
to take a lot. Sometimes it's just like you might
(32:21):
need a little bit of cash to get something done
that might be alone, it might be better, right, There's
all kinds of ways to think through how to do it.
And I believe in designing a business that if I mean,
we've never taken money, right, so for us, it's like
designing a business that can actually exist in space through
our contracts and partnerships and things that we develop that
(32:43):
allows us to take care of our staff right, and
so you know, these are things we have to think about. Right.
I could have data Solopreneur Dulah that would have been fine,
but instead we developed a program and trained over three
thousand doulahs globally so they can go do the work right.
And now we're in Brown University where I teach students there.
And now we're you know, in CBS Health at now
(33:05):
where we teach nurses there, and you know, we do
all kinds of program development because I see that as
at the core of what I'm supposed to be doing
right is knowledge sharing and bridging healthcare gaps with what
we know to be the future leading you know, in
this space. And I can't do it as an individual
(33:27):
if I'm attending births and like impacting one person or
their community, I can do it from this space, right,
and it can be from an institutional level. And so
for me, that's what's important now. At one point, it
was really important to be one on one right, and
then another call came, which was beyond serve. Like the
(33:48):
first call was like to me via service as a doula, right.
The second one was for me to teach, and I
answered that call, and the third one was for me
to lead, and that was really about, like, you know,
thinking about how we change systems. And so I believe
that the most important thing to do is listen for
the call, but also know that it changes, like that
(34:09):
your journey, even if your path and the commitment that
you have and the work that you do at its
core maybe not change, but the actual delivery of like
what you're supposed to be doing, how you're showing up
the workflow might change. That it has changed for me,
like it's changed from being hands on with like a
(34:30):
family or couple, to then in the classroom to then
in you know, institutional settings making decisions and hopefully benefiting
our broader community you know of women and birthing individuals.
Emily Tisch Sussman (34:42):
Is there something it could be something we talked about
or something different that something that at one point you
saw as a real low point for you, but now
you see as having really launched you into the success
you are today.
Latham Thomas (34:54):
I mean, I would say there's always highs and lows
right in this journey, and it is very isolating doing
work as an entrepreneur, as a parent.
At the same time, I wouldn't say that there was a particular low point, but
what I would say is that what I could say
(35:15):
is that there's like ebbs right and flows where some
days you're like, oh, everything's really great, and then some
days where you're you know not. What I would say
that is important and that is sustaining is like really
celebrating your wins and they don't have to be some crazy,
like over the top like you know, but just little
(35:39):
things like tiny victories. I think help us so that
when we are having those low moments where we do
feel like maybe we're undersupported or we're just struggling, we're
reminded of our greatness and also of the impact of
the work. And one of the ways that I have
done that is like through a little group of friends,
(35:59):
right that we just kind of connect with each other
and when something happens that's cool that we may not
necessarily announce to the world. We share there and it's
like the biggest cheerleading squad. Like the way that these
women celebrate and just love on each other is so
fueling and especially for me who comes from a background
(36:24):
in a childhood where like you weren't praised for succeeding.
It was expected, but there was no praise. And so
I come into adulthood not celebrating things that are really
important to celebrate. And so I'm now embracing that. And
so I would say instead of like in a sense,
like you know, you could have these moments that are
(36:45):
really high and not even realize are happening because you're
so focused On the next thing.
And that happens a lot here, Like, you know, we're
so busy sometimes that like I'm like, this thing happened,
it was amazing. Okay, on to the next, you know,
And so people, even staff, doesn't get an opportunity to
like really live into the success and of the things
(37:06):
because we're moving so fast. But I definitely would say
that that's how I kind of handle the joys and
it's also how I handle the hardship. And so that
same kind of group text area is like if I'm
having a rough day or something just is coming up
and I'm like struggling with I go into that and
I want to share that. You know, for a lot
(37:27):
of us, we think that, oh, I don't want to
burden my friends or I don't want and I talk
to people all the time about this, and I'm like,
you know, we're actually primed, like literally primed to connect
in this way. We're prime to seek supportive networks, especially
when we're in times of discomfort or stress. Like we
(37:48):
literally have built in our biology this desire to connect
with people who will support us through the most challenging times.
And so I want to bring that to this conversation
because I think it's so important to develop that connection
to people and to have that village so that when
these hardships come, as you're building something, you have somewhere
(38:11):
to pour Into and people who can pour into you. Because it's so needed.
And I know that the times we're living in now
require community coalition building. It requires us to show up
so much differently than we did before for our survival.
And for those of us who are committed to building
business and who are making shifts and pivots and like
(38:33):
how you're expressing yourselves and like what your businesses I
look like, and even if you're just at a different
life stage, because a lot of us are moving through
things happening in our actual lives that then impact the
business trajectory. You need a container of safety for that,
and I think therapy is a great container, but friendship
is so important and having that space and so that's
(38:55):
how I kind of get through when I have those moments.
But I would definitely say those moments happen. It's not
just like there's one. It's like you have these waves
and there's hardship when you're building something like things come
up and you just have to have the fortitude but
also those resources to kind of get yourself through.
Emily Tisch Sussman (39:14):
Thank you so much, Latham, Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me. Appreciate you.
Latham is continuing to grow Mama Glow and has personally
worked with the likes of Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, and
Gabrielle Union. To stay up to date with Latham, be
sure to follow her on Instagram at Glow Maven.
(39:36):
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. I
hope you enjoyed it and if you did, leave us
a rating and tell your friends about us. To learn
more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she
Pivots the podcast, or sign up for our newsletter where
you can get exclusive behind the scenes content. On our
website at she Pivots the podcast dot com. This episode
(40:02):
was produced and edited by Emily Etta Volosek, with sound
editing and mixing from Nina Pollock. Audio production and social
media by Hannah Cousins, research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics
and planning by Emma Stopek and Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots
is proud to be a part of the iHeart podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
I endorse she pivots
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